Divergent States – Details, episodes & analysis

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Divergent States

Science

Society & Culture

Frequency: 1 episode/15d. Total Eps: 39

Divergent States cuts through psychedelic hype with grounded, skeptical conversations. Hosted by 3L1T3, founder of r/Psychonaut, the world’s largest forum dedicated to the safe use of psychedelics, and co-hosted by Bryan, a USMC veteran and advocate for psychedelic healing, the show examines the science, culture, and contradictions shaping the psychedelic landscape.

No mysticism. No marketing. Just data, lived experience, and hard questions.

We explore how psychedelics impact mental health, creativity, and society, from clinical trials to cultural fault lines. Nothing’s off-limits. Everything is up for scrutiny.

Guests include Rick Doblin, Reggie Watts, Leonard Pickard, Anne Wagner, Hamilton Morris, and Rick Strassman.

If you're looking for reverence, this isn't your show.

If you're after critical, intelligent dialogue about what psychedelics actually do, welcome to Divergent States.

New episodes every two weeks.

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Apple Podcasts

🇺🇸 USA - lifeSciences
21/08/2026
#100
🇺🇸 USA - lifeSciences
30/07/2026
#91
🇺🇸 USA - lifeSciences
25/07/2026
#92
🇨🇦 Canada - lifeSciences
24/07/2026
#94
🇩🇪 Germany - lifeSciences
12/07/2026
#84
🇺🇸 USA - lifeSciences
12/07/2026
#94
🇺🇸 USA - lifeSciences
10/07/2026
#99
🇨🇦 Canada - lifeSciences
09/07/2026
#80
🇺🇸 USA - lifeSciences
29/06/2026
#92
🇨🇦 Canada - lifeSciences
28/06/2026
#93

Spotify

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https://beondibogaine.com/
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Good

Score global : 73%

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Joe Moore on the Future of Psychedelics: From Underground to Mainstream

Season 1 · Episode 21

Thursday, October 9, 2025 • Duration 01:02:26

Psychedelics are no longer the fringe—they’re reshaping medicine, culture, and consciousness itself.

In this episode of Divergent States, 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Joe Moore, co-founder and CEO of Psychedelics Today, to explore the messy evolution of the movement: from the chaotic 1960s to today’s corporate clinics and grassroots revival.

They trace Psychedelics Today’s origins, dive into the Vital training program, and discuss what it means to build trust in a scene that still distrusts institutions. Joe shares insight into the next decade of psychedelic science—AI-assisted molecule discovery, new drugs entering clinical trials, and the fading of old stigmas—and the risks of turning medicine into marketing.

Along the way, they talk Leary and McKenna, ketamine cults, LSD alchemy, and the underground traditions worth preserving.

The result is a grounded, forward-looking conversation about authenticity, ethics, and the future of altered states.

Key Points Covered

How Psychedelics Today started from the breathwork underground
What the 1960s got wrong (and right) about psychedelics
The danger of idolizing substances and personalities — “don’t worship the drug”
How overuse of ketamine mirrors past mistakes in psychedelic culture
The future of psychedelic research and the AI-driven chemistry boom
Vital, the 12-month training program creating the next generation of psychedelic professionals
What it takes to run an ethical business in a scene that distrusts business
Harm reduction and why testing your substances matters more than ever
The LSD Philosopher’s Stone — does the chemist’s energy shape the trip?
Why pleasure and integration must coexist in psychedelic healing

🎙️ Joe Moore joins r/Psychonaut for an AMA on October 9, 2025!
🎧 Support the show and hear the Patreon-only “Trip Stories & Cosmic Jokes” bonus segment at patreon.com/divergentstates

Special thanks to SndBagz for the music!

00:00 – Intro / Bryan returns / Reggie Watts recap / Season 2 preview
04:16 – Meeting Joe Moore / Origins of Psychedelics Today
07:30 – Building a new media voice beyond academic monoculture
08:46 – Lessons from the 1960s and the cult of personality
12:00 – “Don’t Worship the Substance” – The Danger of Psychedelic Deification
13:30 – Unsung Heroes: Shulgins, Dr. Z, Grof & Leonard Pickard
15:00 – Repeating Old Mistakes: Ketamine Overuse and Media Myths
17:40 – “Is Anyone Driving the Bus?” – Who Really Controls Psychedelics Today
20:30 – Can Clinical Models Honor Mystical Experiences?
23:00 – Psychedelic Journalism: Objectivity vs Calling Bullshit
25:30 – Inside Vital – Redefining Psychedelic Training
28:30 – Teaching Mysticism to Therapists
31:00 – Building Trust in a Culture Skeptical of Business
37:30 – The Next Decade – Five Psychedelics Likely to Be Legalized
43:30 – Harm Reduction & Testing Culture
46:00 – The LSD Philosopher’s Stone – Energy, Alchemy & Intention
49:00 – Patreon Teaser – Trip Stories & Cosmic Humor
55:00 – Wrap-Up w/ Bryan – Breathwork, Culture & Community
59:00 – Closing – Future Guests, Patreon & Discord Invite

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FiresideProject.org

Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE

Support the show

Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mycocosm, and our Heroic Doser Lucy on Patreon!

https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

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Reggie Watts on Psychedelics, Creativity, and Consciousness

Season 1 · Episode 20

Monday, September 22, 2025 • Duration 39:59

Comedian, musician, and improvisational genius Reggie Watts joins Divergent States for an unfiltered deep dive into psychedelics, creativity, and consciousness. From jamming on LSD and mushrooms to experimenting with dissociatives and even the Apple Vision Pro, Reggie opens up about how altered states shape his art, comedy, music, and worldview.

We cover:

Psychedelics in creative flow and improvisation
Dissociatives as “drug-induced float tanks”
Saffron, ketamine, and unique mixes in performance
Mainstreaming psychedelics in culture
Flow states, music as healing, and shadow work
Reggie’s bucket-list substances and wild stories from stage to studio

🔑 Whether you’re a psychonaut, a fan of Reggie’s comedy and music, or just curious about the psychedelic creative process, this is one of his rare long-form podcast conversations.

👉 Full extended conversation (45+ minutes extra) only on Patreon: patreon.com/divergentstates

🎵 Thanks to Sndbagz for the music!

00:00 – Intro: Divergent States with Valerie Beltran
02:35 – Reggie Watts joins the show
03:27 – Saffron mixes & ketamine creativity
04:40 – Psychedelics and the creative process
05:40 – Solo vs. group creation on psychedelics
06:36 – Improv, ego, and the psychedelic equalizer
07:25 – Mainstreaming psychedelics & cultural shifts
08:15 – Tripping in ancient and future times
09:48 – Flow states, art, and natural psychedelics
12:26 – Dissociatives vs. psychedelics
15:00 – Apple Vision Pro + dissociatives
17:16 – Anamnesis: remembering the forgotten
19:31 – Jamming with Nazzle & improvisation
21:47 – Psychedelics: loosening control vs. sharpening focus
25:08 – Shadow work & healing through music
27:37 – Permission, freedom, and flow29:47 – Psychedelics as tools or collaborators32:00 – Closing thoughts & Patreon invite35:04 – Outro reflections & gratitude

Tom Feegel: Can Psychedelics Heal the Opioid Crisis?

Season 1 · Episode 11

Wednesday, May 7, 2025 • Duration 59:25

In this powerful new episode of Divergent States, your hosts 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Tom Feegel—CEO and Co-Founder of Beond, a pioneering Ibogaine clinic based in Mexico, to discuss the unfiltered realities of healing, addiction recovery, and the evolving landscape of psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Tom brings two decades of sobriety, a past life in global brand marketing, and deep experience navigating both the light and shadow of the psychedelic resurgence. This isn’t a conversation full of buzzwords: it’s a grounded, honest exploration of what actually helps people come back from the brink.

Together, we unpack what Ibogaine is, why it has a reputation for treating opioid addiction where other modalities fall short, and how the Beond model emphasizes safety, preparation, and integration over hype. Tom also shares stories from the frontlines: clients who arrive on death’s doorstep and walk away with not just sobriety, but a new story for themselves.

This episode dives into some hard but necessary questions:

Why do traditional Western rehab models have such a low success rate?
What does it mean to center human dignity in a treatment model?
How can clinics scale without becoming exploitative?
What role do communities like Reddit and independent media play in this movement?

Whether you're a harm reduction advocate, a skeptic, or just curious about where psychedelics are headed, this conversation challenges assumptions and offers a rare window into the operational and ethical complexities of real-world healing work.

Big thanks to our guest Tom Feegel for showing up with honesty, experience, and insight—and for the vital work he’s doing at Beond Ibogaine Clinic.
https://beondibogaine.com/
Appreciation to all our listeners, supporters, and community members who keep Divergent States growing with every episode.

Shoutout to our co-host Bryan for always bringing grounded, thoughtful perspective - and to you, for being part of this movement.

🎶 Music CreditOriginal music by Dyl👽Alien - alien frequencies for earthbound minds.Check out more of Dyl👽Alien’s work wherever interdimensional audio is transmitted.

Seven Principles of the Psychonaut w/ Valerie Beltran

Season 1 · Episode 10

Thursday, April 24, 2025 • Duration 49:28

What does it mean to be a responsible psychonaut?

In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down again with Valerie Beltran, licensed therapist, harm reduction expert, and educator with the Zendo Project, to unpack 7 core principles for navigating psychedelic states with intention, safety, and compassion.

We break down everything from testing your stash to dismantling your ego, and talk about how these powerful tools can help us grow: not just as individuals, but as a culture.

🔑 Topics we cover include:

Harm reduction, substance testing, and staying safe
What makes a psychonaut different from a recreational user
Ego dissolution vs. ego inflation in the psychedelic space
The beauty of Zendo-style peer support
Psychedelic diversity, inclusion, and ethical use
The soul quadrant: psychedelics as a call to community action
Integration as an everyday spiritual practice
Why set, setting, and intention still matter more than hype

Valerie brings grounded wisdom and therapeutic insight, while 3L1T3 and Bryan keep it real with stories, skepticism, and a few laughs about LSD philosophy, festival weirdness, and Rainbow drum circles.

🧠 This is a great starting point for new explorers and a reminder to seasoned trippers that we all need to check our egos at the door sometimes.

🎧 Music by Flintwick
🪬 Support the show + get the bonus after-show with Valerie at patreon.com/divergentstates
🎤 Email: divergentstates@gmail.com

#Psychedelics #Psychonaut #Integration #ZendoProject #DivergentStates #PsychedelicTherapy #SetAndSetting #HarmReduction #MAPS #EgoDeath

00:00:00 - Introduction
00:00:18 - Valerie Beltran’s Background
00:01:37 - Updates from the Zendo Project
00:02:24 - Psychedelic Legalization News
00:03:35 - Psychedelic Science 25 Conference00:05:19 - The Seven Psychonaut Principles00:05:50 - Principle 1: Harm Reduction & Personal Safety00:08:42 - Preparation (Set & Setting)00:14:21 - Principle 2: Do No Harm to Others00:16:07 - Principle 3: Community & Connection00:21:36 - Principle 4: Diversity & Inclusion00:25:59 - Principle 5: Ego Awareness00:31:18 - Principle 6: Integration & Reflection00:38:18 - Princliple 7: Advocacy & Social Justice00:44:47 - Closing Remarks

Alli Schaper: Microdosing, Mushrooms, and Policy Reform

Season 1 · Episode 9

Thursday, April 10, 2025 • Duration 01:04:42

In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Alli Schaper, CEO of Supermush and co-founder of the Microdosing Collective, to explore the evolving world of functional and psychedelic mushrooms. Alli shares her journey into microdosing advocacy, the challenges of navigating the gray market for psychedelics, and the urgent push for policy reform to ensure safe, legal access.

We dive into the science behind microdosing, its profound benefits for mental health, creativity, and even athletic performance, and discuss why current regulations often overlook this powerful tool. Alli opens up about how psychedelics helped her family process grief and why storytelling is key to destigmatizing these substances. The conversation also highlights the risks of unregulated products (like gas station "shrooms"), the importance of community-driven advocacy, and the potential for cultural momentum to shape smarter policies.

With psychedelic mushrooms gaining mainstream attention, from wellness brands to underground markets, we ask: Are we "legalizing the whole bottle of wine before the sip"? Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion on the future of microdosing, the role of functional fungi in daily health, and how everyday individuals can help drive this movement forward.

Music by DylAlien.

Takeaways

Mushrooms can have a profound impact on physical and mental health.
Microdosing can help maintain mental health and prevent burnout.
Psychedelics can be valuable tools for processing grief.
There is a cultural gap in understanding and accepting death.
Microdosing is often misunderstood and misrepresented in popular culture.
Functional mushrooms offer various health benefits beyond nutrition.
Community and intentional gatherings are essential for wellness.
Advocacy for microdosing is crucial for policy changes.
The definition of a microdose is often misinterpreted.
The Microdosing Collective aims to represent and support microdosers. There is a need for a legal safe pathway for microdosing.
Education and research are crucial for microdosing advocacy.

JR Sawyers – The First Film About Set, Setting, and Psychedelic Therapy? A Trip Elsewhere

Season 1 · Episode 8

Monday, March 24, 2025 • Duration 01:07:14

In this deeply personal and eye-opening episode, we sit down with filmmaker JR Sawyers, the mind behind the indie psychedelic drama A Trip Elsewhere. What begins as a conversation about a film turns into a powerful exploration of transformation, healing, and consciousness.

JR opens up about the psychedelic retreat that changed his life, the emotional weight of isolation during the pandemic, and how he turned those experiences into cinematic storytelling. We dive into the emotional architecture of A Trip Elsewhere, the science and stigma of psychedelics, and how visuals can speak to the soul when words fall short.

From ego death to sacred geometry, from heartbreak to healing—this episode is as introspective and surreal as the film itself. Whether you’re curious about psychedelics, passionate about indie film, or just looking for a conversation with real heart, this one is not to be missed.

🎬 A Trip Elsewhere is streaming now on Amazon Prime, Tubi, Apple TV, and the Roku Channel.

Takeaways

J.R. Sawyers is an independent filmmaker inspired by introspective films.
His film explores the therapeutic effects of psychedelics.
Sawyers experienced a transformative retreat that influenced his filmmaking.
The film's visuals aim to capture the essence of psychedelic experiences.
Character development reflects different emotional struggles and transformations.
The future of psychedelics in therapy looks promising with increasing acceptance.
Sawyers drew inspiration from various books and films to shape his narrative. Actors appreciated the character journeys in the film.
Filmmaking was a way to relive the retreat experience.
Setting and guidance are crucial for psychedelic experiences.
Sawyers is working on a horror film about a possessed psychiatrist.
The film addresses the silent pandemic of mental health issues.
Psychedelics can help build empathy in a disconnected world.
Letting go is essential during psychedelic experiences.
He has never had a bad trip, highlighting the need for guidance.

Valerie Beltran & Chelsea Rose – What Happens When a Trip Goes Sideways

Season 1 · Episode 7

Thursday, March 13, 2025 • Duration 01:07:11

In this powerful episode of Divergent States, we’re joined by Valerie Beltran and Chelsea Rose-Pires of the Zendo Project- an organization redefining harm reduction and compassionate care at festivals, events, and beyond.

We explore how the Zendo Project began as a MAPS initiative and evolved into its own nonprofit dedicated to supporting people through difficult psychedelic experiences and emotional crises, not with judgment or clinical detachment, but with radical empathy and peer support.

From creating safe spaces at Burning Man to launching training programs for crisis responders, Valerie and Chelsea offer insight into how the Zendo Project is transforming both event culture and the broader conversation around mental health, community care, and psychedelics.

Whether you’ve had a challenging trip, want to support others through non-ordinary states, or are just curious about what real-world harm reduction looks like, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.

🧘‍♀️ Learn how just being present can change lives.
🧠 Discover why “sitting, not guiding” is a revolutionary principle.
💬 And find out how you can get involved, support their mission, or even join them in the field.

✨ “You don’t have to be altered to walk into the Zendo. You just have to be human.” – Valerie Beltran

🔗 Learn more or get involved: zendoproject.org
💚 Donate. Volunteer. Sit with someone. It matters.

Forgot to mention on the episode, but big thanks to Future Boogz for letting us feature their track on this episode! Ach for the art, Brad for the help, and all of the Patreon Supporters!

All content in Ask Me Anything sessions are for educational purposes only. Zendo Project does not provide any legal, medical or mental health advice. Consult with a lawyer, doctor, or mental health therapist before making any significant decisions for your own situation. Any references to third party websites or service providers are made without any warranties, express or implied. All participants should conduct their own due diligence on any third party websites or professionals before engaging in any conduct. Zendo Project does not encourage or facilitate any illegal conduct.

DylAlien on Psychedelic Music Culture: Trance Rituals, Cosmic Giggles & Prankster Wisdom

Season 1 · Episode 6

Sunday, February 23, 2025 • Duration 01:02:07

In this episode of Divergent States, we talk with Dylalien: psychedelic DJ, producer, schoolteacher, and longtime organizer of Goa Gil’s legendary all-night, open-air ritual dance parties. You’ve heard his music on this podcast, but in this conversation, we go deep on what it means to create and participate in psychedelic music culture at its most raw, weird, and transformative.

Together, we explore:

The life and legacy of Goa Gil, trance music’s spiritual godfather
The influence of Hindu mysticism and Shiva archetypes in psychedelic culture
The cosmic giggle: what happens when you dance all night and see the joke behind the universe
DJing while tripping, playing to the sunrise, and accessing “wizard vision”
How sound, sync, and group dance create stacked synchronicities
Why trance is a tool, music is a medicine, and exhaustion is a drug
The evolution of the underground, from vinyl and anonymity to phones and algorithms
Being a high school teacher with a secret psychedelic life (“Did you just say that out loud?”)
Pranksters, dosed swimming pools, and the chaos magic of the California scene
How a late-in-life awakening led him to start releasing music, after decades in the shadows

We also talk about how psychedelic states can permanently shift your view of reality—how even sobriety feels different once you've danced with the universe. Dylalien reflects on how psychedelics pushed him to go vegan, redefined his ideas about spirituality, and reminded him again and again: “I don’t know anything. And that’s OK.”

This episode blends stories, insight, laughter, and nostalgia with the kind of wisdom that only comes from living decades in a counterculture groove. Whether you’re a musician, a tripper, a Deadhead, or just someone who’s felt the beat pull them into something bigger—you’ll feel at home here.

🎧 Music by Dylalien
🔗 Learn more about Goa Gil’s legacy and psychedelic trance culture
🧠 Support the show: patreon.com/divergentstates
🎤 Want to be on the podcast? Hit us up on Reddit, Instagram, or TikTok.

Wendy Tucker on the Shulgin Legacy & the Future of the Farm: Preserving Psychedelic History

Season 1 · Episode 5

Tuesday, February 11, 2025 • Duration 47:49

In this profound episode of Divergent States, we welcome Wendy Tucker, daughter of Ann Shulgin and stepdaughter of the legendary Sasha Shulgin, the "Godfather of Ecstasy." Wendy shares intimate stories of growing up at the iconic Shulgin Farm, working alongside Sasha in his lab, and her mission to preserve their legacy through the Shulgin Foundation.

Key Topics Covered:

Sasha’s Lab & Humble Genius: Wendy recounts behind-the-scenes moments with Sasha, his playful humor, and the creation of 200+ psychedelic compounds.
The Farm’s Future: Why the Shulgin property is being preserved as a living community space—not a museum—with plans for workshops, events, and even weddings.
MDMA’s Therapeutic Roots: How Leo Zeff and Ann Shulgin pioneered underground therapy, and why veterans are now leading the charge for healing.
Transform Press: Updates on Sasha’s lecture series, The Nature of Drugs, and other rare archival projects.
How to Get Involved: Supporting the foundation’s mission to protect psychedelic history and foster education.

Perfect for: Psychonauts, historians, therapy advocates, and anyone curious about the intersection of science, culture, and cognitive liberty.

Links & Resources:

Donate or learn more: shulginfoundation.org
Follow Divergent States for more deep dives: [Instagram/YouTube] @DivergentStates]

Subscribe now to explore the minds and movements shaping psychedelics today!

Thank you to all the Guests, Patreon supporters, music submissions, and all the wonderful people that come together to make this thing happen! We couldn't be doing this without YOU!

Big thank you Bryan, Dylalien, Flintwick, Ach, and Brad of Integration Communications!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Shulgin Legacy03:00 Wendy Tucker's Journey and the Shulgin Foundation06:04 The Importance of the Shulgin Farm08:55 Community Engagement and Events11:50 Women and Psychedelics: The Deva Collective15:00 Personal Reflections and Lessons from the Shulgins17:53 MDMA Therapy and Veterans' Healing21:01 Education and Stigma in Psychedelic Use24:01 Supporting the Shulgin Foundation26:58 Future Initiatives and Community Building29:49 Transform Press and Preserving Knowledge33:03 Balancing Legacy and Modern Research35:46 Conclusion and Future Outlook

Rick Doblin Unplugged: Psychedelics, Parenting, Trauma & the Future of MAPS

Season 1 · Episode 4

Wednesday, January 29, 2025 • Duration 01:05:55

In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Rick Doblin, founder of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), for a raw, unscripted conversation on the future of psychedelic therapy, the dangers of hype, and the deeply personal reasons behind his decades-long mission.

We go deep into:

Why MDMA was criminalized and how Doblin outmaneuvered the DEA
The hard lessons from MAPS' FDA rejection and what's next
Parenting and psychedelics: how both Rick and 3L1T3 approach education with their kids
The trauma epidemic—why it’s bigger than war, abuse, or addiction
How psychedelics could help shift collective consciousness in an age of collapse
Burning Man, the Zendo Project, and building a new kind of community

Doblin shares stories of his first psychedelic trips, his rebellious roots, and his vision for a future where safe, supported altered states are a human right, not a privilege. This isn’t just policy talk, it’s soul talk.

👉 If you’re neurodivergent, psychedelic-curious, or just fed up with the way things are—this one’s for you.

🧠 Support the show: patreon.com/divergentstates
🎟️ Learn more about Psychedelic Science 2025: maps.org
🔬 Psychedelic Science 25 at https://www.psychedelicscience.org

Thank you to our Visionary Collaborators on Patreon!
Thank you to Flintwick for the music!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Divergent States and MAPS
02:47 Rick Doblin's Journey and the Founding of MAPS
10:03 The Messianic Idea and Psychedelics
18:54 Psychedelics as Tools for Healing
19:00 Educating the Next Generation about Psychedelics
25:00 The Role of Psychedelics in Addressing Global Trauma30:09 Psychedelics and the Future of Humanity33:31 Revitalizing Spirituality and Cultural Contexts34:45 Psychedelics and Responsible Use36:11 Modern Rites of Passage through Music37:57 Harm Reduction and Support at Festivals39:19 Psychedelic Science 2025 Conference41:35 Community and Collaboration in Psychedelic Research43:42 Reflections on Policy and Progress45:42 Navigating Politics and Science49:35 Globalizing Access to Psychedelic Therapies52:42 The Importance of Divergent Perspectives

Divergent States – Details, episodes & analysis

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Divergent States – Details, episodes & analysis

Podcast details

Recent rankings

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Shared links between episodes and podcasts

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Latest published episodes

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