Jonah Babins from Discourse in Magic tackles magic’s hardest issues, theories, philosophies, discussion, and more to help you explore. He jumps into all sorts of magic, and resources, and most importantly actionable tips to help better the art and become a killer performer!
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Learn how to diversify your magic career and discover why corporate gigs might not be the golden ticket they’re often made out to be. Join host Jonah Babins as he guides you through the captivating world of alternative markets for magicians in this episode of Discourse in Magic. We’ll dissect the allure of corporate events and uncover the real challenges that come with them, from their seasonal nature to the complexities of rebooking. This is an eye-opener for anyone who believes that corporate shows are the pinnacle of a magician’s career.
But that’s not all—we’ll broaden your horizons by exploring other lucrative avenues. Imagine securing a restaurant residency with nightly performances, or entertaining at weddings where magic makes the evening unforgettable. Theaters offer the chance to perform for large audiences, often with impressive earnings, while colleges provide vibrant and enthusiastic crowds. House parties can lead to multiple bookings, and performing at religious establishments like churches and synagogues opens up yet another realm of possibilities. Whether you’re a seasoned performer or just starting out, this episode will inspire you to think outside the corporate box and find success in diverse markets.
Reasons for Performing at Corporate Events
Bigger dollars for corporate events
They are classy and awesome looking events
They feel great
Reasons for Not Performing at Corporate Events
The gigs are inconsistent
They want a new show every time
Endless logistics to manage
Trade Show Magic with Danny Orleans
Thursday, August 22, 2024 • Duration 01:04:18
Unlock the secrets of trade show magic with Danny Orleans, a master magician whose career spans from children’s theater to corporate stages. You’ll gain actionable insights into how Danny transitioned from performing at kids’ birthday parties to captivating professional audiences at trade shows. Listen as he shares his journey, highlighting key strategies and influential mentors like Eugene Berger and Paul Gertner who helped shape his career.
Discover the often-overlooked opportunities in trade show magic, and learn how Danny navigated this niche market to secure and maintain high-profile bookings. From his initial break with a Canadian printer company to his successful techniques for integrating marketing messages with magic routines, Danny offers invaluable advice for magicians aspiring to thrive in the trade show arena. This episode is packed with tips on using technology for lead capture and the importance of blending seamlessly into the business environment.
Finally, we discuss the evolving landscape of modern magic, including the impact of social media and televised magic shows on the industry. Danny shares his thoughts on the challenges of performing in high-stakes environments like trade shows, where rejection is common and resilience is key. Additionally, you’ll hear about quality resources and communities, like a dedicated Facebook group, that can support your growth in trade show magic. Whether you’re a budding magician or a seasoned performer, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom and practical advice.
Trade Show Magic
Danny Orleans is a versatile magician renowned for his expertise in trade show magic.. Danny discusses the challenges and strategies for making a career in magic, highlighting his early successes and the affordability of education and living costs in the past. We explore his journey from birthday parties to becoming a professional magician, emphasizing the opportunities in trade show magic and providing insights into marketing and pricing for aspiring magicians.
Successful Trade Show Magic Strategies
We focus on the unique attributes and strategies of successful trade show magicians. We discuss how integrating seamlessly into the business environment, both in appearance and demeanor, is crucial for attracting corporate clients. The conversation highlights the importance of blending a marketing message with magic routines to captivate and qualify leads without overwhelming the audience.
Secrets of Trade Show Magic
Endless Chain
Mentions
The Math Of $100k
Thursday, June 20, 2024 • Duration 14:28
What if charging $250 per show is the very thing holding you back from building a $100,000 magic business? This episode of Discourse in Magic, hosted by Jonah Babins, dives into the powerful strategy of reverse engineering your way to a six-figure income in the magic industry.
Do the math!
Drawing from his unique background in pure math and his experience running a successful magic mastermind, Jonah breaks down the essential numbers and strategies you need to elevate your magic career. Whether you’re curious about the ideal number of bookings or questioning the feasibility of your current rates, this episode is packed with actionable insights that will transform your business approach.
Learn from the best
Join Jonah as he shares enlightening conversations with fellow magicians during strategy sessions and mastermind meetings. Discover why sticking to rates like $250 or $400 per show could be the very obstacle in your path to financial success. From understanding your market positioning to identifying the right niche, Jonah provides practical math and strategic advice to help you hit — and surpass — the $100k mark. If you’re serious about refining your business strategy and making your magic career flourish, this episode is a must-listen!
Today Jonah tells you about Unconventional.fun 2: Magicland. He’ll explain to you what this is, how it came to be, and then give you six reasons why this may be something that you want to be a part of.
What is Unconventional.fun?
Six months ago, Ben Trane and Jonah launched the first ever eight-bit video-game virtual-magic convention. What that meant was that not only did you have all the cool parts of a convention, like lectures and shows and things like that, but the thing that they did was create a virtual world, kind of like an old video game, where you would mingle around the world with arrow keys. When you got close to other attendees, you could jam with each other. You could hang out because you could see each other’s cameras and hear each other’s voice. So it was kind of like a real magic convention but placed in a video game world. If you wanted, you could go to enjoy the lectures and panels and shows but you could also hang out with the cool kids in the back jamming or just connect with some of your favorite magicians and hangout and talk like you would at a real convention. It was awesome. They had 250 magicians but made two big obvious glaring errors that they are not going to make again.
Two Big Mistakes
The first big, huge mistake that they made was that they had 13 hours of lectures and shows and panels but they didn’t record a single thing. Which is funny because this is magic 101… record your shows and record your stuff!
The first reason why they didn’t record anything was because they were worried that it was all going to crash completely. It was earlier in the whole zoom world. The second reason why they didn’t record it was because they wanted to make it a live event, a kind of in-person thing, so everyone would be there. But what they didn’t realize was that there’s people all over the world and what’s two o’clock for them in the afternoon was maybe the middle of the night for somebody else. So a lot of people stayed up very late to be a part of the whole entire thing, which was epic but a mistake on their part.
The second mistake that they made was that they built a video game world. Jonah and Ben teamed together with coders and designers to make a world that was whatever they wanted. And with unlimited creativity, with unlimited power, the world that they built was … a convention center. They built a floor of a hotel lobby, and it was awesome, they had a dealer’s room, a main stage, jamming areas, a bar, and a lot of different cool stuff like you would have at a real convention.
Two Big Changes
What To Expect
Six Reasons Why You Should Go
Number one: lectures.
Number two: We have an incredible Virtual Magic Panel.
Number three: Performances.
Number four: A custom world.
Number five: The jamming.
Number Six: It’s yours forever
Get Your Tickets Today
Finding The Magic Formula with Ben Seidman
Thursday, February 11, 2021 • Duration 02:11:16
Jonah is joined by Ben Seidman to talk about working as a consultant on Mindfreak, appearing on Fool Us, and learning how to throw out everything you’ve heard when designing your own show.
He Started Terrible And Then He Got Better
Ben doesn’t think his origin story is all that interesting. He was interested in magic and got his dad to buy him a magic kit and he was really bad at it and then he got better. Throughout his early years he says there were two “aha” moments for him that stuck with him throughout his career. The first was the feeling of “crushing” a show and the second was the realization that he was coming up with ideas that nobody else was doing. One of those first ideas, a pick pocket routine he invented when he was 21, would land him his first consulting job on Mindfreak and open the doors to the rest of his future career performing in magic.
At Mindfreak Ben found himself working between Johnny Thompson and Banachek and for someone so young it was inevitable that he would be feeling some imposter syndrome. But once he offered up ideas that they would say were cool too it was validating enough to allow Ben to give himself permission to admit that the work he was doing had value as well.
Ben’s time as a consultant and advisor helped him to find his footing but performing had always been his goal. Each of his favourite magicians followed what he calls the holy trifecta, they’re very creative, amazing on stage, and also very technically skilled. Checking off those boxes are important to Ben as well as creating emotional hooks with the audience but also keeping it really funny.
The Importance of Remaining Original
Ben is a passionate advocate for original content. Far too many magicians, including Ben up to a point, have relied on phrases and jokes and lines from other performers. Perhaps it’s from the culture where we get the magic and included is the patter and the instructions tell you what to say and so you say it. But if you’re going to perform magic the only thing you can guarantee will be original will be you. Everyone is performing magic and it’s all just… magic. If you hear a line that another magician says Ben will emphatically tell you that you should never use that line in your own routine.
Pivoting To Virtual
Wrap-Up
Endless Chain
What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like?
Take home point
Plugs
A New Mission For The Toronto Magic Company
Thursday, February 4, 2021 • Duration 42:41
Jonah is joined by Ben Train, his Toronto Magic Company business partner, to offer up a glimpse of what life is like at the Toronto Magic Company, how it’s adapted to the world of virtual magic, upcoming events they’re hosting, and the lessons that he and Ben have learned after almost a full year of pivoting to the virtual.
A New Mission
Ben and Jonah launched the Toronto Magic Company four years ago with the mission to share magic with public shows and programming for lay people around the Toronto area. When all live events were cancelled in March 2020 they had to shift the Magic Company to an all virtual environment and now their mission is to simply share magic. Now, thanks to virtual magic, Jonah and Ben are able to share magic not just in their geographic area of Toronto but all over the world, which has really helped to make the work they do a ton of fun.
Having Fun With Virtual Magic
For Ben, virtual magic has changed his relationship with magic. In the past Ben has been honest about how challenging live shows can be. With all the prep work, stress, and travelling involved it can really take a toll on someone. Virtual magic has reinvigorated Ben and shown him just how much fun there is to have with magic. Ben feels more creative and more free than he could be on stage, he feels comfortable in his setting rather than feeling nervous before shows and for a variety of reasons this past year has helped Ben fall in love again with magic.
For Jonah, there’s always been so much mystery when you go to a private event to perform and you’re not always guaranteed a receptive audience. With virtual magic, Jonah has discovered a world of enthusiastic audiences excited to see magic done in a novel way. There’s something very special happening right now and the full potential for virtual magic is just beginning to be realized.
Living With Your Business Partner
Shortly after founding the Toronto Magic Company, Jonah and Ben made the decision to move in together as roommates to better coordinate their business projects. So what’s it like living together when each of you are fundamentally very different people? Jonah and Ben pull back the curtain on their home and living arrangement and share stories about how they couldn’t have pulled off this company without the other’s unique input. They also share how they overcome creative differences and lessons they’ve learned over the past several years in resolving conflicts and taking risks.
Next Stop, Magicland!
Living the Magic Dream with Mat Franco
Thursday, January 28, 2021 • Duration 01:02:21
Jonah is joined by Mat Franco where they get to discuss his dominating performance on America’s Got Talent, opening up a For-Real-Life show in Vegas, and knowing from an early age that Mat was destined to live his dream as a magician.
Ever since he was five, Mat has dedicated his life to learning and performing magic, from show-and-tell in kindergarten, to the college touring circuit, to winning on America’s Got Talent, to producing a show in Vegas.
No Backup Plan
Seeing magic on TV, a five year old Mat asked him parents for some magic tricks and soon after he was performing for his kindergarten class. By elementary school he was performing on stage for the local high school and from then on it’s been non-stop performing. He might claim that he went to business school as a backup plan but the reality is he never had one, it’s always been magic.
Tough and ruthless was the name of the game when it came time to get booking to perform on the college circuit and through a mix of good luck, a good show, and being able to speak the language of leadership and business to those who were doing the booking Mat found himself performing for colleges across America.
Winning Wasn’t The Plan
The idea for signing up for America’s Got Talent was to be able to get footage of his acts to use to book more gigs at colleges. It was never his intention or belief that he would progress through the competition all the way to winning in the finale. But, as Mat puts it, he was “young, stupid, naive, and tenacious” and able to problem solve his way to adapt the tricks he had in his inner rolodex to performing on the show.
Still A Beginner In Magic
Mat still considers himself a beginner in magic and it’s that mindset that he believes has helped him to achieve the success he has found. He never had big dreams, the most he hoped for was to make magic and share it with people. At the end of the day it’s all about attitude, personality, entertaining people, interaction, that’s the real magic, that’s the x-factor, that is intangible.
What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like?
Take home point
Plugs
Appetizer #23: The Three Systems You Need For Your Virtual Magic Business
Thursday, January 21, 2021 • Duration 08:41
Today, we are talking about the three systems that every virtual magician needs in their business.
A lot of people ask me, how is it that I can have a podcast, and a virtual magic business, and interview people, and coach magicians, and also post on social media everyday, how I do all of those things. And the answer is not that I wake up really early and drink a ginger root tea or have apple cider vinegar at 6AM, none of those things are true.
The reality is, I rely on systems to make sure that my business grows, even when I’m not putting in the work, and systems are critical for your business because having systems in place, having things in place that work, means that one unit of input doesn’t necessarily mean one unit of output. One unit of input could mean two or five or ten or twenty units of output.
A Lead Generating System
For many of us, we do what’s called hope marketing, which is we cross our fingers and we hope that somebody inquires on our website or asks us about what we’re doing. And the reality is if we do not have a system to bring people into our business, then we don’t really have a business. We don’t really have something that regularly makes money. We only make money when other people want us to make money.
So we need to have a system to bring leads into our business. Now you’ve probably been in magic long enough to know that there’s not just one way to do this. It could be social media, you could do ads, you could do events, ticket events, live streams, email outreach, email newsletter, cold calling, referrals… there’s a million different systems that you can have, but just ask yourself right now, do you have a lead generating system? Is there something that if I said tomorrow, I need you to push the button that’s going to bring more leads into your business. Would you know what button to push?
A Sales System
If you do not have an organized system that takes an interested person to an inquiry, takes an inquiry to a phone call, takes a phone call to a pitch, and then a pitch to a close. Then what happens is you basically just cross your fingers every time that somebody asks you about an event. Because you’re hoping that they decide that it’s good for them.
And obviously it’s a two way decision, you know, we’re not deciding if they should hire us, but certainly by having a system, you can be very, very sure about what needs to happen at each phase of the process, instead of hoping that they know what they want, how they want it, when they want it, you decide how it works.
An Outsourcing System
Upgrade Your Business
Finding Your Path To Magic with Moritz Mueller
Thursday, January 14, 2021 • Duration 01:36:53
Jonah is joined by Moritz Mueller where they discuss how to reach out to some of the biggest names in the magic world, different theories of magic and how it can practically apply your work, and how Moritz prepares and learns his own tricks.
Moritz is an incredibly talented magician and, at twenty years old, he’s very young for someone with his expertise and skill. So what is he doing that other magicians aren’t? How has he accomplished in less than ten years of sleight of hand that other magicians haven’t been able to do in twenty or thirty? In this interview Jonah and Moritz talk about coin magic and card magic, how to bump elbows with the best of the best, and what it was like to appear on Ellen!
The Magic At Home Advantage
Moritz had one major advantage over many other magicians in that his father was already a hobby magician. As Moritz was developing his own interest in magic his father would point out when a trick he was looking to purchase was worth his time or not. Having a magician in the family to help guide his early years meant bypassing a lot of the experimenting that other magicians have to face. By the time he was ready to start performing on his own he already had years of mentorship.
What grabbed Moritz’s attention to magic was the small details. How a very small change in detail can have a major impact on a trick’s effectiveness. Those minute details captured Moritz’s ambitions; he would spend years just practicing and learning all the nuances he could and refining those small details.
Eventually he drew the attention of others who invited him to attend conventions where he would meet some of the biggest names in the magic community and begin learning and befriending them. If you ask him how he’s ended up with so many big names as personal contacts he’ll happily point out that many of the people he’s met in the magic community are very open to being approached and contacted. As long as you approach them with respect and express your feelings and ask a question you might find that a lot of people are more willing to respond in kind than you might think.
The Man Who Has Practiced One Move 10,000 Times
Rather than casting a wide net Moritz focused a very narrow beam early on. It can be very overwhelming thinking that you need to learn all of these many moves to be a successful magician and you can either end up burning out or never developing enough skill in any one move to really be successful. So, being inspired by a famous quote from Bruce Lee, Moritz focused on one thing at a time obsessing over the tiny changes he could do to a single move and it was in coin magic that he discovered was a great playground for him to practice in.
Moritz has a lot to say about coin magic. It’s difficulty stems from how simple it is at its core. There are only so many effects possible and the methods are oftentimes equally simple. But there is a very steep learning curve and so much that needs to be done before it even begins to be deceptive and that is what Moritz finds so interesting. He attributes much of career success in magic to the time he invested in coin magic early on because there is so much work that needs to be done before you can even call it magic.
Walking Your Own Path
Wrap-Up
Endless Chain
What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like?
Take home point
Plugs
Thank You
Thursday, January 7, 2021 • Duration 03:05
This is not an episode. This is a thank you.
2020 was a really, really strange year for everybody. It was a strange year for me, and I assume it was a strange year for you too.
A Year Of Firsts
It was a year full of firsts. It was the first time we had our calendars wiped clean. It was the first time that we all did virtual magic shows. And it’s the first time that many of us rose to that occasion. For me, it was a lot of really crazy firsts. All in 2020, we released episodes with Juan Tamariz, Derren Brown, and Teller, which snuck out just before the end.
Thank You!
And the reason I’m recording this episode is to thank you. To thank you all so much for your support, not just your support in this year, not just your support in the last few episodes, but your support in the last few years. Your support in being a part of this from the start, you know, I know many of you have been listening to this since day one, and I know there’s so many different things that you could be doing with your time, so much different content you could be consuming. And I am so glad that you spend it all here with me. So thank you, thank you, thank you so much.
New Year Resolutions
In the past, I’ve done new year’s magic resolution episodes. I used to do them with Tyler. I used to do them with Ben and Jackie and Chris, but this year because of the quarantine, because of the pandemic, because of the, everything I want to say this.
Last year, when we did the episode, one of the pieces of feedback that I got from everybody was that usually when I do episodes, I’m either doing an interview or I’m either giving out advice, but the new year’s magic resolution, I kind of give a peek behind the scenes as to what’s going on in my life.
What’s going on in the Toronto magic company. And what my mindset is going into the new year. So instead of us doing an episode about all the things we had planned for 2020, and then how all of those plans went horribly wrong instead, Ben and I are going to be doing monthly Toronto magic company episodes here on the podcast. So we’re going to be tuning in once a month to share what we got planned, what’s going on.
Get More From Behind The Scenes In 2021
Apple Podcasts
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We examine the evolution of magic tricks and the practicality of incorporating them into a magician’s repertoire. We explore the criteria for evaluating a magic trick’s effectiveness, such as its ease of use, portability, and suitability for various performance settings like Instagram or live gigs. Additionally, we discuss the importance of understanding the intended audience and context when purchasing magic tricks.
But when they decided to do it again, they knew that they had to make something cool. So after the first convention, they sent out a survey asking if people wanted to do it again. And 96% said yes! So they knew they were going to do another one and they knew they were going to have to make some big changes.
The first big change is that they are recording all of the lectures, panels, and shows so you can watch them afterwards if you can’t make it, or like a convention, if instead of a lecture you’d want to meet up or jam with somebody who’s not lecturing at that time, you can totally do that and watch the lectures afterwards.
The second big change is that they built Magicland. It’s a magic themed amusement park. So instead of a dealer’s room, they have a midway. Instead of having a bar, they’ve got food trucks. So now when you walk around the virtual world, you are in a unique place that doesn’t look just like a hotel convention center, but instead it looks like something magical and impossible that has never existed before.
The first Unconventional.fun was a one day eight bit virtual magic convention. And now, Unconventional.fun 2 will be a two day eight bit video game virtual magic convention. And the days that it’s happening are Saturday, February 27th and Sunday, February 28.
Unconventional.fun 2: Magicland is the second ever video game virtual magic convention. Just like the first one, there’s lectures, panels, and shows and also you mingle around with the arrow keys.
When you get close to the other attendees your camera and mic fade into view. So you can jam, you can hang out, and you can spend time together. That means that if you come find Jonah, we can jam and hang out with him. You can also hang out with some of the other magicians that are there. Not only the ones on the lineup.
At Unconventional.fun 2, you can jam with Eric Jones, Suzanne, Caleb Wiles, Asi Wind, Paul Vigil, Moritz Mueller, and so many different magicians that are going to be there.
Ben and Jonah have brought some of the best lecturers together. Not only people who have been crushing in virtual but also just people who absolutely crush it. So not only do they have a John Guastaferro lecture, which is going to be amazing, they’ve got an Eric Jones lecture and Adrian Lacroix lecture. One lecture that Jonah is looking forward to is Asi Wind who will be doing a part lecture, part Q&A called “Fix Your Magic”. You will get to submit your magic problems and Asi will work to fix them and talk about some potential solutions.
Ben and Johan have pulled together a handful of magicians who have been absolutely crushing it in the world of virtual to ask about why, what, and how they’re doing it and figure out how you can do the same thing.
The last year and a half of magic has gone through changes that it has never seen before because of the full fledged transition from in-person magic to virtual magic. So you better believe that when they say they’ve got virtual magic shows for you to watch, they have the best virtual magic performers in the world performing. You will get to see exactly what it is that they’ve created over the past year and how you can maybe do the same thing, not by taking their tricks (unless they’re for sale) but to get some inspiration from some really incredible virtual magic performances.
Ben and Jonah built an entire custom world with magic jokes. And with unlimited different bits and pieces that are hilarious. They have food trucks, a midway, games, and performance spaces. Big enough for 500 magicians
This is really the thing that separates this from other conventions in the virtual space is that you really can mingle around and you really can jam with anyone. Ben and Jonah are going to be there. All of the performers on the lineup are going to be hanging out and jamming.
And there’s a really cool feature in this platform where you can search the name of the person that you want to jam with. They’ll come up and then you can go find them. So if you want to jam with Eric Jones, you just search his name, you click on it and it’ll tell you where in the virtual world he is and go and find him. If you want to go jam with Spidey, it’s exactly the same thing, you can search where in the virtual world he is and go find them. If you’ve got a question for Adrian Lacroix or you want to jam with Chris Mayhew or you want to share some tricks with Michael Feldman. Easy! To find them you type their name in a little search bar and then you go find where their little avatar is hanging out.
Every single one of those lectures, performances and panel talks, are being recorded and being given out to you forever. If you just bought this to download the videos afterwards, it would be worth it.
Who you are and what you say is vastly more important to your connection with the audience. The things that you say are what create the moments. So look through what you say in each trick and if you’ve ever heard that line anywhere else just cross it out. If you take those things out you still have to fill that space. You will start saying the things that are you because you have to. If you put yourself in a position where it’s sink or swim, something will come out of you.
Ben also stuck around to share more about how the past year of virtual magic has been for him. One of the things he’s noticed is that it’s much easier to connect with fans of his work. Normally while touring his name alone would not be a huge draw on the marquee. He might have a lot of fans but they’re spread out all over the world. Now thanks to virtual magic they can all gather in the same place. So rather than performing on a live stage to an audience that might not know who he is, he’s been able to perform to fans who know his work and are excited for his unique brand of magic. And that wouldn’t have been possible before virtual magic.
Ben is quick to point out that virtual magic shows are not the same kind of magic as a netflix special. You have to make sure you are interacting with your audience, that’s the one major strength you have in a virtual show that you can’t do in a pre-recorded tv special. He’ll also warn you about over spending and over producing your show. You don’t necessarily need a five camera setup with expensive lights and a set. There’s no shame in doing your show on your laptop camera and seeing how it works out before investing more money into your tech. Focus on what you can bring first.
David Jerard. David is a magician and mentalist based out of San Francisco. David is also one of the people that Ben bounces ideas off of.
And also Joe Monti. Joe is strange strange man who Ben loves dearly. He also worked on Mindfreak and has a unique perspective and is super goofy. He talks a mile a minute and his brain works just as fast.
Ben likes that more people have access to magic. There was a time when you only saw magic when you were in the upper crust, now anyone can see magic.
Ben doesn’t like that more people have access to magic. There’s a problem with magic becoming trivialised. Far too many people are putting out magic online before it’s ready to be performed. A moment of magic should be a unique thing but if you can access it non-stop, especially from any level of quality, then it’s no longer this profound and beautiful thing.
Be Original.
If you forge your own path and you put things into the world that have not been seen before then people get to appreciate you for who you are as opposed to who someone else is. In your everyday life and in your magic try to create moments of joy for people by being the best human you can and trying to be truly you. The more “you” you are the more original you will become, in life and in your magic.
Unconventional.fun is coming back in 2021 and this year they’re taking a bold leap into a magic park setting. You might recall that in 2020 Ben and Jonah hosted the inaugural Unconventional.fun virtual magic convention by recreating an 8-bit virtual hotel environment where magicians could mill about and jam in the lobby and attend lectures and workshops. For their very first time doing it they wanted to recreate the familiar setting of a conventional convention, but this year they’re pulling out all the stops and embracing the creative freedom that a virtual environment offers. This year Unconventional.fun is going to Magicland, a virtual amusement park for magicians. More details will be coming out soon so for now you should sign up to the mailing list by visiting Unconventional.fun to be notified when tickets go live.
Shows like the Carbonaro Effect and Fool Us which are reframing magic for modern audiences in a way that’s positive and uplifting. For a time magic was being associated with cruel pranks online and it’s nice to see it moving away from that.
On the other hand magic is currently suffering from a voyeuristic approach, where people mostly watch magic being done to other people, and Mat would like to see new ways to present magic that allow the person watching it to be more directly involved in the experience.
I do believe experience is the best teacher. I believe you should follow your passions. And I’m also a believer in good solid technique in whatever it is you’re doing. Not to overlook a good solid base, a good solid background in technique, a toolbox to draw from, that will allow you to create better things. If you get really good at the scales you can write better songs.
You tell them what you offer, what’s most popular, what they should get. You tell them that you schedule phone calls. You tell them how it works, because otherwise you are beholden to their buying process. If they want to buy later, if they don’t want to buy now, if they’re not interested, if they want this and not that you have to do whatever it is that they want. So instead build out your sales system.
Maybe you’re wondering how it is that I can have a podcast episode every Thursday for the past four years and be a full-time magician and produce ticketed shows and run a coaching program and all of these different things. The answer is outsourcing. I hire out the things that I’m not so good at.
There’s only important bits that I do. I write the posts, I say the podcast, but it’s critically important that I find incredibly talented people to put in positions where they do something better than I could ever do. It was cheaper for me because instead of me spending five hours, hours that I totally could have and should have spent doing way more important things, I spent those sitting in front of my computer editing.
So ask yourself what processes in your virtual business right now are you doing that maybe you shouldn’t be doing. What pieces can you hand off to somebody else that you do not have to do.
These are the three systems that every virtual magician needs. I hope that this was helpful for you. If you want some help doing this, if you want some assistance, then send an e-mail to info@discourseinmagic.com with the word “Upgrade” and I’ll tell you a little more info about the private coaching that I run for virtual magicians.
Moritz knows that there’s no real “right” way to live your magic life and thinks that what it comes down to is reflection. How often do you stop along your path and actually think if this is the right thing? How often do you question why you are working on a certain routine or a certain move? What Moritz has always tried to do is realize wrong turns as soon as possible by stopping and questioning himself.
Moritz’s advice to you is if you find yourself practicing a lot of things at once and you find yourself so scatterbrained that you can’t keep track of what you’re doing then that might be a sign to keep it simple and focus on one thing at a time. And also read more magic books instead of youtube videos. The theories found in those books will help you understand what you’re seeing in those videos so much more that your entire perspective on magic will shift.
There’s not that many magic theory books out there and Jonah has a whole bookshelf of recommendations that you’ve likely heard mentioned dozens of times in the past on this podcast but Moritz can’t recommend “Expert Card Technique” enough. The theory part is so good that Moritz believes that it’s put so concisely that it’s a very good all rounder of magic theory.
Jan Logemann – “He is just an amazing close up performer… you can’t really put him in a box, he just does great magic”
Moritz likes that he’s seeing people use gimmicks in ways he hasn’t seen before, especially on Instagram. To an extent where the gimmick is being used in a way that can only work on Instagram.
What Moritz doesn’t like is the overconfidence of new magicians who think that they don’t need to hear what you have to share.
What is the right amount of the characteristic that you have? What is the right amount of work? It’s really important to question yourself like that.
And capture your own excitement point. That is the most important resource that you have for your magic, your own excitement. That thing that makes you giggle, that thing that gets your heart going, that thing that really inspires you, keep pursuing that and you will get closer and closer to what it is that you want.
And if you’re interested in what we’re doing, how we’re handling virtual, if you want to see us doing virtual magic shows, we’re going to be talking about all that, all of our plans, Unconventional.Fun, all of that good stuff.
So this episode I’m recording because I want to say thank you. Next episode will be back to interviews, but I just want you to know that over the next 12 months, basically, I’m going to be doing some more behind the scenes episodes to share with you what I’m doing, what I’m up to and what I’m thinking as well.
Thanks so much for being here this year and the last five years of this podcast existing, you guys mean the world. I love you all so much. See you next Thursday, Peace!
🇩🇪 Germany - performingArts
15/08/2026
#62
🇩🇪 Germany - performingArts
14/08/2026
#47
🇩🇪 Germany - performingArts
13/08/2026
#34
🇩🇪 Germany - performingArts
12/08/2026
#18
🇨🇦 Canada - performingArts
27/07/2026
#54
🇺🇸 USA - performingArts
16/07/2026
#95
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