Explore every episode of the podcast Design Better

Tom Foley didn’t set out to design typefaces. As a postgraduate student at Central Saint Martins in London, he was researching why Ireland, unlike Switzerland, the Netherlands, or Germany, never seemed to have a confident typographic voice of its own. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/tom-foley The answer led him through centuries of colonial history, to a so-called “Irish type” invented during the Reformation to make printed scripture look the way outsiders thought Irish readers would want it to look, and back further still, to fifth-century monks who may have given us the first true lowercase letters and the word space. The best response to that research, Tom realized, was a typeface. He called it Nib, and it now lives on Dublin’s heritage plaques. That mix of deep research and hands-on craft has defined his career since. Tom worked on the first phase of Netflix Sans, a typeface you may see every day and probably never notice. At Monotype, he rose to Executive Creative Director and led custom work like the National Portrait Gallery’s contemporary serif. This year he walked away from that role to become Creative Type Director at Studio DRAMA, because he wanted to get back to making type. We talk about how cultural context shapes letterforms, how to balance heritage with something that feels modern, and Tom’s practical framework for pairing typefaces, which starts with calligraphic roots and vertical metrics rather than vibes. We also get into why he left a prestigious executive role, how a childhood struggle with reading may have sharpened his eye for letters, and the books and typefaces he thinks every designer should know. Bio Tom Foley is Creative Type Director at Studio DRAMA in London, where he designs custom typefaces for brands. He was previously Executive Creative Director at Monotype, where his work included a custom serif for the National Portrait Gallery and his typeface Cotford. Before that, he spent years at Dalton Maag, working on multi-script projects for Nokia and the first phase of Netflix Sans. Tom came to type design through research: his postgraduate thesis at Central Saint Martins on Irish typographic history produced Nib, the typeface now used on Dublin City Council’s heritage plaques. Short version: Tom Foley is Creative Type Director at Studio DRAMA in London and former Executive Creative Director at Monotype. His work spans custom typefaces for Netflix, Nokia, and the National Portrait Gallery. Links: Website (Studio DRAMA): studio-drama.com Monotype Profile (archived): monotype.com/studio/tom-foley LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tom-foley-75062158 Instagram: tom_foley_type *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide. We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world’s best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. If you’re interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com If you’d like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kevin Flores has been part of the Design Better community for years — we first met him in 2017, while he was leading design at 23andMe, back when we were researching how design teams are structured for the Design Genome Project. So it’s a real pleasure to finally have him on the show to talk about his new book, Find Your Inner Rebel. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: The book is built around what Kevin calls his punk rock formula for career reinvention: resistance plus resilience equals reinvention. But don’t mistake the attitude for advice to quit your job. Kevin is candid that sometimes the smartest move is to hunker down, keep working toward change from where you are, and be ready when it comes, whether you choose it or it’s chosen for you. Get the book We talk about why strong generalists struggle to get hired (and how to fix it), why your personal brand matters more than ever when you’re competing against hundreds of applicants, and a simple test for your portfolio’s opening statement: swap in someone else’s name and photo and see if it still works. As Kevin puts it, “you are the unique thing in the equation.” We also get into misalignment burnout, why designers should look beyond big tech to places like local government, and servant leadership. Bio Kevin Flores is a design leader, mentor, and author of Find Your Inner Rebel. He has built and led product and design teams in every work environment: agency, freelance, startup, and mid-to-large companies, including Verizon, 23andMe, and LinkedIn. He and his wife Jeanine met as design undergraduates at the University of Illinois and went on to co-found an interactive agency in Silicon Valley in the 1990s, and together they co-wrote the Design Career Handbook. Kevin spent six years as a mentor in First Round Capital’s Fast Track program, and serves as an industry advisor for design and user research for the Mission College Design and Diablo Valley College Digital Media joint advisory board. Learn more at innerrebelbook.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In graduate school, Randy Hunt poured his heart and soul into a poster for Milton Glaser’s class, a picture built entirely from hand lettering that read as an image from across the room and as words up close. Glaser glanced at it, said, “Well, that’s not very good,” and moved on to the next student. Get bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/randy-hunt Randy tells that story fondly. What stayed with him wasn’t the sting but the standard: keep the floor high, and the ceiling keeps rising. He carried that idea from Glaser’s studio, where he apprenticed, through a career leading design at Etsy, at Grab in Singapore, and until recently at Notion. At Notion, that standard meant a design team smaller than anyone would expect, on purpose. Randy argues that limited bandwidth forces a company to prioritize, and that great people have little patience for what he calls “the work around the work.” The team doesn’t talk about titles or levels. Designers ship code in the production app, something Randy built teams around at Etsy in 2010, long before “design engineer” came back into fashion. We also get into what he calls “whole design,” which means treating a push notification with the same care as the main dashboard. He explains why hotels and restaurants inspire him as much as any software, and traces that back to growing up near Disney’s carefully spaced trash cans in Orlando and to the bowl of fresh fruit that always sat in Glaser’s studio. Bio Randy J. Hunt is a designer, artist, and author based in New York City, with more than 20 years of experience building products, brands, and businesses. Most recently, he was Head of Design at Notion. He also chairs the MFA Design program at the School of Visual Arts, a graduate program focused on entrepreneurial designers. Earlier, he led design at Etsy, Artsy, and Grab, co-founded the designer-made marketplace Supermarket, and served as Chief Product Officer at the coffee-tech company Morning. He apprenticed at Milton Glaser's studio, founded the design studio Citizen Scholar, and wrote Product Design for the Web (New Riders, 2013). Books & Links Randy Hunt on LinkedIn randyjhunt.com The Hunt Design Week: “A lot of this is about rituals” MiltonGlaser.com The Creative Act, by Rick Rubin Johnny Cash Project Julia Hoffman Tequila Wars: José Cuervo and the Bloody Struggle for the Spirit of Mexico Widow’s Bay *** Premium Episodes on Design Better⁠ This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get 4 ad-free episodes per month. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: Get design and career support in Design Club⁠⁠ Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide. We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Aarron was fresh out of grad school, working at an agency outside Philadelphia, he and his coworkers used to crowd around a monitor to study volumeone.com. Most websites back then had a picture, maybe an image map. Matt Owens’s site had 3D, animation, and experimental graphic design, and none of us could figure out how he made it. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/matt-owens-athletics-co-founder-on Matt launched Volumeone.com in 1997, and it now sits in SFMOMA’s permanent collection. Before that, he was a skater and punk kid from Texas who ran a record label with his twin brother, then went to Cranbrook and landed in New York just as the web took off. In 2004, he and a few friends rented an old boxing gym in Williamsburg and kept the word on the door: Athletics. Today it’s a 30-person brand studio working with Google, IBM, Stripe, and Major League Soccer. We talked with Matt about how punk rock taught him to start things without overthinking them, what designers lost when Flash died, and how Athletics grew from a punk house into a proper agency. He explains why he calls himself the studio’s most capable intern and still takes on projects of his own to keep his skills sharp. We also get into how his team uses AI as one ingredient rather than the whole recipe, and why good creatives can smell polished slop. We wrap up with his book, A Visible Distance, and the rebel optimism he passes on to his students at SVA. Bio Matt Owens is co-founder and Chief Design and Innovation Officer at Athletics, a Brooklyn brand studio whose clients include Google, IBM, Stripe, Square, and Major League Soccer. He holds a BFA from UT Austin and an MFA from Cranbrook Academy of Art. From 1997 to 2009 he self-published the experimental design quarterly Volumeone.com, now in SFMOMA’s permanent collection. He is the author of A Visible Distance: Craft, Creativity, and the Business of Design (Set Margins, 2024), teaches at the School of Visual Arts, and writes on Substack. He lives in Brooklyn with his family. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better⁠⁠⁠ This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: ⁠Get design and career support in Design Club⁠ Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide. We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blaine Billingsley is a staff designer at OpenAI, and his path there was anything but a straight line. He studied music composition and comparative religion, played guitar in Texas for a living (he remembers checking his bank account, seeing seven dollars, and feeling pumped), then drove to San Francisco and took a data entry job at a startup. This is a preview of a premium episode. To listen to the whole thing, join our premium membership on Susbtack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/blaine-billingsley The engineers taught him to script his way through the work in a couple of hours, and he spent the rest of the day learning from them. From there he went on to companies big and small, including a long run on Gmail. Blaine has an allergy to corporate jargon that we found interesting. He’s known amongst his colleagues for rewriting product specs to get absolute clarity on a project, and for raising his hand in meetings to ask, “what do we really mean by ‘create a command center for work’”. We talk about why a design principle only helps if you could reasonably disagree with it, and his counterintuitive advice for working with a pushy PM: the best way to have influence is to be influenced. Then we get into how design actually works inside OpenAI. Blaine walks us through what goes into an eval, and the product design plugin he built with one engineer, whose biggest fans turned out to be the PMs and engineers who were starved for a design partner. Bio Blaine Billingsley is a member of the design staff at OpenAI, where he works on making ChatGPT a daily tool for designers and built a product design plugin focused on translation workflows like image-to-code. Before OpenAI, he was a Product Design Architect at Slack and a Staff Experience Designer at YouTube, and earlier held design roles at Airbnb, where he created a system of Host Guides, and Google, where he worked on Inbox by Gmail. He was also the sole designer at Pattern Technologies, an AI-powered sales startup acquired by Workday. Blaine studied music composition and comparative religion, played guitar professionally in Texas, and got his start in tech doing data entry at a San Francisco startup. He's known for his allergy to jargon, his love of a clear process, and his belief that a designer's job is to represent the user. Books & links mentioned Show notes Blaine Billingsley blaineb Blaine Billingsley — Design Mentor @blaineranium The Systems Bible The OpenAI Product Design Plugin Mid-air Thief Vargamae: Volume I of the Truth and Justice Pentalogy *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium subscriber benefit: Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide. We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the mid-1950s, North Carolina was one of the poorest states in the country. Its economy ran on tobacco, furniture, and textiles — all three in decline — and its universities were turning out talent that promptly left for somewhere with better jobs. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/mack-paul-co-author-of-miracle-road Today the stretch of pine woods between Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill is the largest research park in the United States. The barcode came out of it. So did AZT, ultrasound, and AstroTurf. Our guest Mack Paul spent years working out how that happened. He’s the co-author of Miracle Road, a history of Research Triangle Park (known as RTP) written with his father — a journalist — and built on about 160 interviews with the scientists, planners, and politicians who were there. It’s out October 6th. Hundreds of research parks have been attempted, and most failed. RTP started later than Silicon Valley or Route 128, with no defense money, no entrepreneurial culture, and universities that were openly uneasy about mixing academia with industry. But it worked anyway. Mack’s answer to why is not what you might expect. The park itself was almost an afterthought. What made it work was a set of long, unglamorous commitments: a governor who went industry hunting, a community college system that promised to train any company’s workers for free, and a decision about desegregation that made North Carolina a better bet than Virginia — which is a big part of why IBM came in 1965. We talk about what made it take off, the challenges now as RTP tries to become something denser and less car-dependent, and what it takes to build a place people actually want to be. We also talk about what it’s like to write a book with your father. Bio Mack Paul is a founder of Morningstar Law Group in Raleigh, where he has spent 30 years on the legal and political machinery behind how places get built — zoning, land use, environmental permitting, public-private partnerships, and public financing for infrastructure, mostly on large mixed-use and urban infill projects in North Carolina’s Triangle region. He’s a LEED Accredited Professional and served six years as the public member of the NC Building Code Council. He sits on the NC State Design Guild board, has advised the modernist preservation nonprofit US Modernist, helped organize the “Build Raleigh Better” symposium, and co-founded a development company aimed at raising design quality in the region. He teaches Real Estate Development Law at NC State. Mack is the co-author, with his father, of Miracle Road: The Story of Research Triangle Park, published by Duke University Press. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: Get design and career support in Design Club Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide. We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Samsung’s CEO asked Federico Casalegno to redesign the cameras on the company’s phones, Federico told him he was the wrong person for the job. He wasn’t an optical engineer. He didn’t understand cameras. What he understood was storytelling — and he pointed to the Lascaux caves in France, where people were marking walls twenty thousand years ago for the same reason we hold up our phones today: to capture a moment, and tell it to someone we love. Find the full episode on our Substack:https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/federico-casalegno That’s the kind of answer you get from a designer who arrived by way of studying human society. Federico is Head of Samsung’s Global Design Studios, with teams spread across San Francisco, Europe, and Seoul. Before that he spent two decades at MIT, where he co-founded the MIT Design Lab with Bill Mitchell, and before that he was a social scientist embedded with engineers and psychologists at Philips Design in the nineties — back when “cross-disciplinary” wasn’t yet a word anyone put on a job posting. We talk about what that looks like in practice at the scale Samsung operates at. His team builds digital twins of human ears — thousands of 3D and 4D scans across real demographics — then simulates millions of variations to figure out how an earbud should fit. Then they strap the buds onto robots and make them run. Then they test with actual humans, because at some point a person still has to decide what “comfortable” means. There’s a phrase Federico kept returning to: technology without humanity is merely perfection without purpose. The designer’s role is problem making first, problem solving later. We also get into how critique works inside a company that speaks a dozen native languages, what he actually looks for when hiring, and the French philosopher who, at 102, looked at his calendar and said he was booked until next year. Bio Federico Casalegno is Executive Vice President at Samsung, where he leads product experience innovation across business units and heads the company’s Global Design Studios. Reporting directly to the CEO, he builds teams of designers, engineers, creative technologists, and strategists working on advanced design and next-generation experience planning. As head of design and AI, he established Samsung’s Computational Design function and leads digital transformation across the organization. Before Samsung, Federico spent two decades at MIT, where he founded the MIT Design Lab and the MIT Mobile Experience Lab and taught at MIT and the MIT Media Lab, researching the intersection of design, AI, and emerging technology. He previously worked at Motorola and Philips Design, and holds a PhD in sociology from the Sorbonne. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better⁠ This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium subscriber benefit: ⁠Get design and career support in Design Club⁠ Weekly Portfolio Club calls this summer helped our paid subscribers build portfolios that land great jobs. Experts joined us weekly to provide feedback, and we compiled lessons from each session into a portfolio design guide. We’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world’s best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. If you’re interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com If you’d like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jonathan Adler was one of our favorite guests, so we’ve been angling to get him back ever since. He started as a potter and now designs furnishings and interiors that are decadent, but layered with meaning and humor. A lot has happened since we last spoke: he had a retrospective at the Museum of Arts and Design — the same institution whose gift shop took a chance on his pots 32 years ago — and launched a sprawling collaboration with Michaels, which he calls a temple of craft. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jonathan-adler-returns We talk with Jonathan about what it felt like to stop making long enough to curate three decades of his own work, why he’s grateful he chose commerce over the gallery world, and whether people really are trading doomscrolling for making things with their hands. Along the way, we talk about his father, the lawyer who painted — and why the maximalist you think you know insists he’s a minimalist. Also, much like our last conversation with Jonathan, there are some instances of adult language and humor, so if you have kids around it might be a good idea to throw on some headphones. Bio Potter, designer, and author Jonathan Adler launched his namesake brand after leaving his day job to pursue his first love: pottery. In 1993, Barneys bought his collection of pots, and five years later, he opened his first store in Soho. Today, Jonathan Adler is a design company with retail locations worldwide, a thriving e-commerce site, a full slate of residential and commercial projects, and a global wholesale business. They strive to create luxe and livable interiors that are seriously designed, but don’t take themselves too seriously. Earlier this year, the Museum of Arts and Design mounted a retrospective of his work, presented in dialogue with pieces he curated from the museum’s own collection. He lives in New York with his husband, the writer Simon Doonan. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world’s best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. If you’re interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com If you’d like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We all know that there is something fractured about the workplace, that makes it inefficient, and at times inhumane. If only someone was thinking deeply about those problems, and how to address them… Visit our Substack for the full episode: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/clay-parker-jones That’s what Clay Parker Jones is working on right now. Clay has spent close to two decades on this problem — first at the consultancy undercurrent, and today as Head of Org Design and Development at Airbnb. He advocates for investment in creativity and humanity at work, something you might think would be obvious for any company, but sadly is eclipsed by short term thinking. His new book, Hidden Patterns: A Playbook for More Human Workplaces, is one of the most cohesive philosophies of organizational structure we’ve come across. And his diagnosis of what’s broken is simple: there aren’t enough real teams. Most of us work in what he calls “co-acting groups” — people who convene for a meeting and then scatter back to their actual work. In this conversation, we get into why psychological safety stays a platitude until you make it structural, what rule of law looks like inside a company, and how to break a manager’s job into atomic pieces and hand away the parts you’re bad at. We also chat about why the org chart is a design problem that designers should be at the table for. Bio Clay Parker Jones leads Organizational Design & Development at Airbnb, refining how a creativity-first company learns and ships new ideas. A former Chief Strategy Officer at Black Glass, co-founder of August, and transformation lead at R/GA, his work has been recognized by B Lab and profiled in a Harvard Business School case study. A former bike mechanic with a BA in Diplomacy and World Affairs from Occidental College, Clay now resides in Brooklyn with his wife Emily and cat Ian. You can find him on the Fort Greene tennis courts in his spare time. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A few years ago, Dropbox redesigned its website and revenue dropped by thirty percent. It was an all-hands-on-deck moment: people working weekends, everyone hunting for a systemic failure. Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/angel-steger The culprit turned out to be a pricing page — specifically, the white space between the feature list items was slightly too generous. Angel Steger noticed that her eye kept landing on the white instead of the words. They tightened the gaps, and the revenue came back. That’s the kind of thing Angel notices, and it’s not an accident. Currently the VP of Design at Wealthfront, She trained as an architect at RISD, where the first question in her first architecture class wasn’t about buildings. It was “What is a drawing?” — the sort of question that makes you realize every tool you reach for carries a point of view you probably haven’t examined. Angel’s path into tech was less deliberate. By her own account, she mouthed off to her boss, got fired, and spent the severance on O’Reilly books, taught herself to code, and became the first designer at MySpace — where the head of engineering proudly informed her that they had never had design and never would need it. She went on to become the first product designer at 23andMe, learned usability from Larry Tesler, and led design teams at Pinterest, Dropbox, and Meta before landing at Wealthfront. In this conversation, we get into what architecture teaches you about solving one problem at a time, why she tells her team to go lower fidelity, how a default chart setting can push someone into a financial decision they’ll regret, and what she looks for in a portfolio — high craft, high intentionality, and no boiled broccoli. Bio Angel joined Wealthfront in November 2023 and leads product design, content design, and creative teams, bringing 20+ years of experience building and leading customer-centric, business-focused design and product teams. What makes her perspective rare is the through-line she draws between business model and design quality — she's a practitioner who built her career arguing that growth design, done with rigor and craft, isn't a compromise but the highest form of product work. Beyond Wealthfront, she holds advisory positions at AudiencePlus and Ameelio, and previously held leadership design roles at Meta, Dropbox, and Pinterest, where major growth and user engagement initiatives were implemented. She guided Wealthfront's design organization through its December 2025 IPO, in which Wealthfront's shares began trading on the Nasdaq Global Select Market under the ticker "WLTH" — the first robo-advisor to go public. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Like a lot of parents, Eli struggled over the years to get his kids more into reading and away from screens. He wasn’t necessarily on the search for a technological solution, but then an interesting device came our way: the Yoto Player, a screen-free audio player for kids. Eli’s 10-year old son has been loving to read along to the Harry Potter books (and he often finds him after he falls asleep, and the player is still going). Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/ben-drury The story behind Yoto is from a similar moment of parental struggle. About a decade ago, Ben Drury was shopping for a stroller in a London department store and found one with an iPad mount built in. For a newborn. He remembers the reaction being physical — this is just wrong. But if you’re expecting an anti-screen crusade, that’s not quite what happened . The line Ben uses is: we don’t say screens are bad, we say audio is good. Listening is good for creativity and imagination — and there’s research going back to the 1980s to back that up. Ben is the co-founder and CEO of Yoto, makers of a kids’ audio player that works by dropping a physical card into a small speaker. Before Yoto Ben spent about a decade building a B2B digital music platform called 7digital which he took public. What he learned from that experience proved helpful as he and his co-founder started Yoto. Ben and his co-founder became parents at roughly the same time, and wanted a way for their kids to connect with music and books like they did in childhood. So they started hacking on Raspberry Pis with no hardware experience whatsoever. How hard could it be, right? The 3rd Gen Yoto Player Turns out, it’s pretty hard. They took a restrained approach. Yoto is a cube, because it was the simplest shape they could think of. It uses NFC cards that have a Pokemon card feel. The 16 by 16 pixel display presents pixel art that gives Yoto a fun personality. In this conversation, we get into the design principles that came out of Montessori, their experience working with Pentagram on product design and branding, why Paul McCartney became an early angel investor, and what changes when you go from a Kickstarter that raised fifty thousand dollars to nine-figure revenue. Bio Ben Drury is the co-founder and CEO of Yoto, the screen-free audio player that lets children control their own listening by dropping a physical card into a speaker. Before Yoto, he spent roughly a decade building 7digital, a B2B digital music platform he took public. He and his co-founder started Yoto in 2017 with a Kickstarter campaign and no hardware experience between them; today the company employs about 220 people across six countries, sells in 1,900 Target stores in the US, and counts Paul McCartney among its early angel investors. He lives in London with his wife and two sons. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a special bonus episode, an interview with Rivian’s Chief Design Officer, Jeff Hammoud. We’ve got all the audio here, but it’s worth heading over to our Youtube channel at dbtr.co/youtube to watch the video. We recorded this one live in Miami, in the Rivian Pavilion during Art Basel, with a R1T truck in a new eggplant-purple called Boreal parked just over Jeff’s shoulder. Jeff runs a team of about 140 people across Irvine and Palo Alto — interior and exterior designers, color and materials, digital surfacing, perceived quality, even an in-house painter and a clay milling shop. And he has a strong opinion about what all that machinery is for: constraints are what separate designers from stylists. Anyone can make a beautiful concept car, but making the production version look like the concept is the challenge. We talked about why Rivian keeps making colors most people won’t buy, and how limited-run “Studio Originals” work like sneaker drops. Jeff makes the case that AI is going to level the playing field in design — shifting the advantage from whoever illustrates best to whoever has the better idea. We got into which controls stay physical and why, the haptic halo wheels coming in R2, and how scent ties a car to memory. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fifteen years ago, Eric Ries handed a generation of founders a playbook. When Eli was in a Palo Alto-based startup accelerator in 2011, The Lean Startup felt like the only book anyone in that ecosystem was talking about. It was in the middle of a wildly optimistic moment for tech. Marc Andreessen declared that “software is eating the world,” social media was blooming, and there was a widespread belief that technology was about to democratize everything and bring us closer together. Concepts like the MVP (“minimum viable product,”), the pivot, and build-measure-learn became the operating language of Silicon Valley. This is a preview of a premium episode. Listen to the full interview on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/eric-ries But a lot of the companies built on those ideas went on to get corrupted by forces Eric hadn’t yet named. His new book, Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad and How Great Companies Stay Great, is his reckoning with what happens after you build something great — and how to keep it from falling apart. Buy the book In this conversation, we get into why speed itself wasn’t the problem, but treating a rising stock price as proof of health is like assuming more exhaust means a faster car. Eric explains why doing the right thing 100% of the time is actually easier than doing it 98% of the time, and how companies behave like superorganisms with their own emergent character — a point he illustrates with a genuinely mind-bending study about ants solving a puzzle that no single ant ever could. We talk about the “harder is easier” principle through stories from Patagonia and the long-term stock exchange he built as a design challenge, and why the value a company makes comes from the design of its products. And because we couldn’t resist, we get into AI slop, LLM psychosis, and Eric’s clear, simple antidote: never ask these tools to make you an artifact — ask them to teach you how to make one yourself. Bio Over the last two decades, Eric Ries’s ideas about continuous innovation, long-term thinking, governance, and market reform have reshaped company building and management practices. He is the creator of the Lean Startup method, and the author of the New York Times bestseller The Lean Startup; The Leader’s Guide; and The Startup Way. As a founder, he has put his own ideas into practice with The Long-Term Stock Exchange (LTSE); Answer.AI, an AI R&D lab; the Lean Startup Co, which teaches and supports the implementation of Lean Startup; Virgil, a legal services startup; and IMVU, where the ideas that became the Lean Startup method were forged. On his podcast, The Eric Ries Show, he talks to guests including world-class technologists, thought leaders, and executives working to build profitable companies for the long-term benefit of society. Eric has served as an entrepreneur-in-residence at Harvard Business School and IDEO. He lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with his wife and three children. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world’s best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A few years ago, Ian Bogost wrote what he thought was a throwaway Atlantic piece about how electric vehicles would finally kill the manual transmission. It went off like a bomb — and the reaction told him people weren’t mourning a car part. They were mourning the feeling of dropping a gear into place, a small moment of sensory connection quietly disappearing without anyone choosing to give it up. Find the full episode and bonus content on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/ian-bogost That feeling is the subject of his new book, The Small Stuff. Ian calls it gratification — distinct from happiness or satisfaction, it’s the immediate sensory delight of communing with ordinary things: the ridged coffee cup, the click of an elevator button, the tink of ice in a water bottle. And he diagnoses what he calls dematerialization: the slow way efficiency, automation, and software have severed us from the physical texture of daily life. A game designer, longtime Atlantic contributor, and philosopher of the everyday at Washington University in St. Louis, Ian has spent his career — across books like Persuasive Games and Play Anything — arguing that the systems we build carry values whether we intend them to or not. Here he turns that lens on the ordinary objects most of us stopped noticing long ago. For designers, this is becoming more and more relevant. Ian argues that somewhere between the mid-90s and now, user-centered design quietly mutated into outcome-oriented design — we kept the language of user experience while the goals drifted toward the organization instead of the person. But this isn’t nostalgia or a plea for friction. Gratification, he insists, is easy. It’s already happening to you all the time. The designer’s job isn’t to add friction, but to notice where the sensory life has quietly drained out of the things we build, and to re-introduce it. And the challenge he leaves us with is deceptively simple: get curious. The Small Stuff is out now. You can find Ian at bogost.com. Dr. Ian Bogost is a writer, designer, and scholar of media and technology. He is the Barbara and David Thomas Distinguished Professor and Assistant Vice Provost at Washington University in St. Louis. At WashU, he is appointed in three colleges and the co-executive director of the Office of Public Scholarship. Bogost is also a contributing writer at The Atlantic and the founding partner of Persuasive Games LLC, a game and design studio. He is the author of 11 books, most recently The Small Stuff: How to Lead a More Gratifying Life. Bogost’s award-winning games and artworks, which include Cow Clicker and A Slow Year have been played by millions of people and held in permanent collections around the world, including at the Smithsonian American Art Museum. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Years ago, two friends in Philadelphia — both designers, both obsessed with jazz — kept noticing the same notation on the back of their favorite records: “recorded by Van Gelder in Hackensack.” So one Saturday they drove out to find it. They tracked down the address in a 1955 phone book, pulled up — and found a parking lot. No sign, no plaque, nothing to mark that Rudy Van Gelder had once turned his parents’ living room into a recording studio there, capturing some of the most important American music of the century. This is a preview of a premium episode. To hear the whole thing, head over to our Substack:⁠https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/chris-entwisle-and-mark-havens⁠ That quiet drive home planted the seed for a twenty-year project. Mark Havens and Chris Entwisle are the authors of WAIL: The Visual Language of Prestige Records — the first real look at the design history of a label that, unlike Blue Note, never got its design mythology, despite cover art that’s just as striking and durable. They tracked down original pressings, interviewed the designers before that history disappeared for good, and uncovered how a label run, in one historian’s words, “like a mom and pop store” — no budget, no briefs, no marketing department — produced a visual identity coherent enough to still echo through design today. Buy the book What we love about this conversation is how much of it comes down to constraints driving creativity. Reid Miles couldn’t afford imagery, so he made typography the art. Tom Hannon had no budget for stock photography, so he shot the musicians himself. Designers got an album title and nothing else — no brief, no comp, no client approval — and turned that absence of direction into creative freedom, because Bob Weinstock simply “viewed it all as art,” the music and the covers alike. This is a conversation about jazz, but it’s also about what happens to creative work when nobody’s watching too closely, and why limitations so often produce things that last. Bios Chris Entwisle is an artist and illustrator. For over thirty years, he has used his passion for both jazz and postwar graphic design in his illustration work. Entwisle has a BA in graphic design from Rutgers University. He and his wife live in the Philadelphia area. Mark Havens is an artist and educator with a dual background in graphic and industrial design. His work has been exhibited internationally and is held in both public and private collections. Out of Season, his first major monograph, was described by the New York Times as “a decade-long elegy.” Havens is a professor of industrial design at Thomas Jefferson University. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Niyati Gupta describes her career as one long experiment — deliberately putting herself in uncomfortable, ambiguous situations and treating every move as a personal learning loop. That instinct took her from a bachelor’s in design inside one of India’s most prestigious engineering colleges, where almost nobody understood what design was, to a research role at Carnegie Mellon where she studied health info needs for low-literacy users in rural India, to Autodesk’s bio-nano innovation lab building molecular visualization tools for scientists — and eventually to Google, where she joined the Next Billion Users team. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/niyati-gupta That team’s mission was to ask an open question: where would the next wave of users come from, what did they need, and what products didn’t exist yet to serve them? Niyati ran immersion sprints in the Philippines, India, Indonesia, and Mexico — shadowing users, building prototypes in the field, testing them in the wild, and bringing those insights back to a team that was building products like Camera Go and Google Files from the ground up. And she’ll tell you that the swim lanes between designer, engineer, and PM felt just as artificial out there in the field as they do today with AI accelerating everything. These days she’s a senior product designer at Netflix, working on commerce and partnerships — which means thinking hard about discovery, about fandom, about how you help someone decide what to watch on a Friday night without making them feel like the choosing is harder than the watching. It also means designing across a ten-foot TV screen, a phone, and every device in between, and trying to make all of it feel like one seamless experience. In this conversation, we get into what the Next Billion Users work taught her about designing for people who aren’t like you, how she thinks about influence as a designer — and why she’s convinced the title was never where the influence actually lived — and what Netflix’s design culture looks like from the inside, including how they run crits and how they think about A/B testing. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Typography is often treated as a detail — the thing you finalize after the real design decisions are made. But for our next guest, it’s closer to the foundation everything else rests on. He’s spent two decades in editorial design at some of the most iconic American magazines — Men’s Health, Esquire, Popular Science, Entertainment Weekly — and he’s now the Creative Director of Fast Company, where he recently led a redesign that does something pretty unusual: the magazine gets a completely new typeface every single issue. His name is Mike Schnaidt. This is a preview of a premium episode. Visit our Substack to listen to the entire interview: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/mike-schnaidt Mike’s also a professor, a runner, and the author of Creative Endurance — a book that maps the principles of physical and mental endurance onto the creative life. It’s built around 56 rules for sustaining a career in design, drawn from interviews with ultra-marathoners, astronauts, and designers who’ve pushed way past the limits most people set for themselves. And as you’ll hear, he’s already working on book two. We chat about the nuts and bolts of typography (utilitarian vs. expressive, food metaphors, Fast Company's per-issue typeface system) to the philosophy underneath it all (design as service, authorship, hospitality). We dig into his book Creative Endurance — 56 rules for sustaining a creative career drawn from athletes, astronauts, and designers — and his counterintuitive take on burnout: the cure isn't rest, it's picking up something creatively different. Bio Mike Schnaidt is the creative director of Fast Company. He’s also the host of the Webby-awarded video series It’s All in the Typeface, a professor of illustration at the School of Visual Arts, and the former president of the Society of Publication Designers. One of the coolest moments in his life was when Paula Scher said his first book, Creative Endurance, was “beautifully designed.” His second book arrives in 2028. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There’s something magical about the Vestaboard: it’s a physical, split-flap display connected to the internet that displays missives and useful information with a charm that we love. The Vestaboard in our kitchen greets our family with the family schedule for the day, riddles, updates from our favorite sports teams, and the best/worst dad jokes. Everyone who visits our house is amazed by it. Vestaboard is the vision of Dorrian Porter, and has its origin story in a Parisian train station. A few years ago, we had Dorrian Porter on the show to tell us about Vestaboard, and since then, we’ve become even bigger fans of the product. We keep spotting them in the wild, from coffee shops in Savannah to airport storefronts in Minneapolis. Dorrian is back to tell us about the Vestaboard Note, a smaller, more affordable, and more versatile version of the original that went from basic prototype to Red Dot Award winner in about a year — a story that starts, believe it or not, with tariffs. We talk about what it’s like to build a hardware company through supply chain disruptions and trade wars, why Dorrian keeps betting on the consumer market when the easier path might be B2B, and how Vestaboard is finding its way into classrooms, baseball stadiums, and a bar in Northern California born out of a community recovering from wildfire. We also dig into the tension between nostalgia and innovation — Dorrian’s honest about the fact that split-flap displays attract people who love vintage and transportation, but his ambition goes further than retro. He wants to build products that pull meaningful content out of our phones and into the physical spaces where we actually live together. This is a special sponsored episode of Design Better, and we’re happy to share it because Vestaboard is a brand we truly love. Their mission to inspire and connect people resonates with us, and we think it will with you, too. *** There’s currently a waitlist for the Vestaboard Note. But as a Design Better listener, you can head over to vestaboard.com/designbetter to skip the waitlist and receive a special offer. Claim your special offer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Tina Roth Eisenberg moved to New York in 1999 as a new designer, she kept asking herself the same question: where are my people? Eighteen years ago, she answered it by starting Creative Mornings—a free breakfast lecture series that has since grown into what she describes as the world’s largest face-to-face creative community: 252 cities, 70 countries, and more than a thousand volunteers gathering with around 25,000 people every month. Or, as she puts it, “church for creativity.” Visit our Susbtack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/tina-roth-eisenberg-creative-mornings But Creative Mornings is just one thread in Tina’s story. She’s the voice behind Swiss Miss, the beloved design blog she’s kept up for 21 years; the founder of FRIENDS, a creative coworking community in Brooklyn; and the creator of Tattly, the designer temporary tattoo company that started as a joke and turned into a business. In our conversation, Tina shares what she’s learned about building communities that scale on trust rather than control, why she measures success in “return on friendship,” and how playful side projects increase “the surface area for luck to find you.” We also talk about commitment as a creative practice, raising creative kids, and why she believes the future isn’t lonely—it’s hyperlocal. Bio Tina Roth Eisenberg is a Swiss-born, Brooklyn-based designer and serial founder—though many know her simply as "swissmiss," after the design blog she started in 2005 as a personal visual archive, which grew into a popular design journal drawing an average of a million unique visitors a month. Raised in Speicher, Switzerland, and shaped by Swiss design (and, as she puts it, a lot of fresh mountain air), she completed her design studies in Geneva and Munich before moving to New York in 1999. She is the founder of CreativeMornings, the world's largest face-to-face creative community, with monthly talks in 252 cities across 70 countries; the founder of Tattly, the designy temporary tattoo company; co-creator of the to-do app TeuxDeux; and founder of FRIENDS, a creative coworking space in Brooklyn. She lives in beautiful Fort Greene, Brooklyn, with her two children, Ella and Tilo, who teach her about current memes and TikTok. Books & Links mentioned: CreativeMornings.com Creative Quests, Sam Furness Dark Forest,Yancey Strickler Nanowrimo Swissmiss Yancey Strickler: Creative Mornings talk from May 2025 Vacation With An Artist Creative Mornings Field Trips Creative Morning Clubs The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Paul Ford likes to call himself a “fun Cassandra” — someone who, like the priestess in Greek mythology, sees trouble coming, but unlike her tries to make the warning as entertaining as possible. He’s the writer, developer, and co-founder of the tech agency Aboard who saw Claude Code drop last November and immediately understood it was going to change everything — while finding, to his surprise, that most people around him simply weren’t seeing it that way. This is a preview of a premium episode. Find the full interview on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/paul-ford That same instinct is what drew him into AI early. Where others hedged, Paul dove in — vibe coding nonstop, running full enterprise subscriptions for his entire team, and building in earnest. But he’s not a fanboy. He’s a critical optimist who believes something important is happening, while holding equal concern about the companies pushing it, the students expected to learn from it, and the decades of hard-won knowledge that might be quietly evaporating in the rush. Paul is also an English major who sold an agency, a developer who thinks in prose, and a father of 14-year-old twins — one of the most multi-disciplinary thinkers we’ve had on the show. He won the National Magazine Award for writing an entire issue of Bloomberg Businessweek dedicated to explaining programming to a mass audience — a 38,000-word essay called “What Is Code?” A regular contributor to Wired and published in The New Yorker and MIT Technology Review, he’s one of the rare writers who can make the inner workings of software feel urgent and human. He’s exactly the kind of thinker this moment needs: someone who can write code and read the room, and who cares about quality as much as velocity. He can also make you laugh while explaining why you should probably be a little worried. Bio One of the world’s leading technology thinkers, Paul Ford has written about the way that software works for dozens of publications like Wired, Businessweek, and the New York Times, including his National Magazine Award–winning Bloomberg cover story “What Is Code?” After years of writing about technology, Paul decided to do something about it, co-founding Postlight and Aboard to help deliver quality products to the people who need them. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the United States approaches its 250th anniversary, the Constitution remains the most consequential document in American life — and more people are reading it than ever. But pick up almost any commercial edition and you’ll find the same thing: small type, no imagery, nothing that invites you in. Jessie McGuire noticed this too. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jessie-mcguire Every copy her studio ordered looked identical — dense, utilitarian, forgettable. So they redesigned it. They printed thousands of copies, donated them to New York City schools, and invited designers like Milton Glaser and Seymour Chwast to create posters for each amendment in the Bill of Rights. That project became a turning point — not just for the studio, but for how they think about what design is actually for. Jessie is Managing Partner of Thought Matter, the independent design and creative studio that just won the 2026 National Design Award for Communication Design from the Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum — the field’s highest national honor. It’s an award that recognizes not a single project but a decade of practice, and Thought Matter’s practice has been built around a bold idea: that imagination is a radical act. A Salvadoran-American designer, New Yorker, and mother of two, Jessie brings a perspective shaped by navigating spaces that weren’t always designed for her. She teaches entrepreneurship at Pratt, mentors emerging designers, and leads a studio that works with cultural institutions, nonprofits, and commercial brands — all grounded in the belief that design is civic infrastructure, a tool for helping people see themselves as participants in shaping the world around them. In this episode, Jessie talks about the origin of the Constitution project, what it means to fund the work you actually want to talk about, why she thinks scale and speed aren’t serving us, and why sitting down to make something with your hands — like the beaded bracelets she makes with her kids — still matters. Bio Jessie McGuire is Managing Partner of Thought Matter, the independent design studio that won the 2026 National Design Award for Communication Design from Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum — the field’s highest national honor. She leads the studio’s strategy and long-term vision, working with cultural institutions, nonprofits, and commercial brands on work grounded in the belief that design shapes what people believe. A Salvadoran-American designer and mother, Jessie is committed to expanding who gets to lead in the design industry. She teaches entrepreneurship at Pratt Institute, lectures on design as civic infrastructure, and mentors emerging designers. Before Thought Matter, she worked in-house at Kimberly-Clark and led projects for multinational brands. She holds a BFA from Pratt Institute and an MPS in Branding from the School of Visual Arts. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit: we’ve launched a private Slack workspace…join now to connect with designers, product leaders & creative practitioners in our community. And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a preview of a premium episode. To listen to the full thing, visit our Susbtack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/colin-fisher In jazz, there’s a concept called minimal structures — a rhythmic framework, a harmonic pattern, an implied order of solos. Just enough to hold the band together, but plenty of space for autonomous creativity. It’s a useful lens for thinking about how any team works, and it comes directly from today’s guest. Colin Fisher was a professional jazz trumpet player before he became one of the leading researchers on group dynamics. He’s now an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London, with a PhD in Organizational Behavior from Harvard, and his new book is The Collective Edge. In it, he makes a case that we systematically underestimate the role groups play in every breakthrough we celebrate. We love stories about lone geniuses — Newton, Einstein, Miles Davis — but when you peel back almost any one of them, you find a group behind it. We just tend to forget that part, because our brains are wired to remember heroes, not ensembles. Ask everyone on a six-person team how much credit they deserve for the group’s output, and one study found the total came to 235%. In this conversation, we get into why teams are 6.3 times more likely than individuals to produce breakthrough work, why the sorting hat in Harry Potter is actually the series’ true villain, and why 84% of managers try to coach their way out of team problems when the real fix is structural. We also talk about the dangers of using competition to motivate creative teams, why the ideal team size hovers around 4.5 people, and what it would take to pull our increasingly individualistic world back toward something more collective — without tipping into the other extreme. Bio Colin M. Fisher is an Associate Professor at University College London’s School of Management and the author of The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Avery/Penguin Random House), translated into ten languages. His research on group dynamics, creativity, and improvisation has been published in top academic journals and featured in BBC, Harvard Business Review, NPR, Forbes, and The Times. Before earning his PhD in Organizational Behavior from Harvard, Colin was a professional jazz trumpet player and longtime member of the Either/Orchestra. He lives in London with his wife and two children, and can sometimes be found sitting in at jazz jams around the city. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/nir-eyal-returns If you want to understand how much your beliefs shape your reality, try this quick exercise. Google the “checkerboard illusion” below and you can witness first-hand that even when you know two squares are the same shade of gray, your brain still refuses to show you the truth. If it can’t get a simple shade right, imagine what it’s doing with everything else. In his book Hooked, Nir Eyal helped people build habit-forming products for good. Then he wrote Indistractable to help people break free from the ones that weren’t. But after years of hearing from readers who knew exactly what to do and still couldn’t make themselves do it, he realized something was missing from the equation entirely. His new book, Beyond Belief, argues that motivation isn’t a straight line between behavior and benefit — it’s a triangle, and the third side is belief. The convictions we carry about ourselves, our abilities, and our circumstances quietly determine what we see, what we feel, and ultimately what we do. In this conversation, we dig into why your brain actively resists changing its mind, how the placebo effect is reshaping what we know about pain and performance, and what all of this means for designers and creative thinkers navigating the uncertainty of AI. Nir also gets personal about living with ADHD and dyslexia, stage fright, and how a single reframe — not a new fact, just a new belief — changed the way he experiences all of it. Bio Nir Eyal is a globally recognized authority on behavior change and human potential. His frameworks have empowered millions to build better habits, enhance focus, and unlock greater agency in their lives and work. A former lecturer at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design at Stanford, Nir has collaborated with leaders and organizations worldwide to boost performance through behavior design. He is the New York Times bestselling author of the international bestsellers Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products and Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life, which have sold over one million copies in more than 30 languages. Hooked was a finalist for the 2014 Goodreads Choice Awards. Indistractable won the 2019 Outstanding Works of Literature (OWL) Award and was named one of the Best Business & Leadership Books of the Year by Amazon, Audible, and The Globe and Mail. His third book, Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results, became an instant New York Times best-seller and reveals how to identify and replace the hidden beliefs that define our limits. *** This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium subscriber benefit coming soon: we’re launching a private Slack community…join now so you get access when it launches! And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a preview of a premium episode. To the listen to the full thing, head over to our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/mason-currey At several points in his life, Eli imagined what it would take to become a full-time artist — a photographer or illustrator free from client work. What he didn’t realize was that he already had an example of a different path right in front of him: his father, a practicing physician whose published poetry earned recognition from luminaries like John Ashbery. Mason Currey’s most recent book explores these alternate paths. He’s the author of Daily Rituals, the beloved book that catalogued the working habits of nearly 200 artists, writers, and composers. His new book, Making Art and Making a Living, goes deeper — into the financial realities, the schemes, the compromises, and the surprising strategies that creatives have used to keep their work alive across centuries. What he found is both humbling and strangely reassuring. Virginia Woolf had inherited investments. Kafka had insurance. Chantal Akerman had a cash register she skimmed from. John Cage had Italian game show winnings. And yet, running through all of it is the same question that Mason has been asking about his own life since the day he sat down to write a novel and couldn’t: How am I going to pay for this? In this conversation, Mason walks us through the four funding models his book explores — family money, day jobs, patronage, and schemes — and what the lives of creatives from Kafka to Murakami can teach us about building a practice that actually lasts. Bio Mason Currey is the author of the Daily Rituals books, featuring brief profiles of the day-to-day working lives of more than 300 brilliant minds. His latest book, Making Art and Making a Living, was published by Celadon Books on March 31, 2026. Currey lives in Los Angeles and writes Subtle Maneuvers, a twice-monthly newsletter on the creative process. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium subscriber benefit coming soon: we’re launching a private Slack community…join now so you get access when it launches! And get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Find the full episode and bonus content on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/etinosa-agbonlahor For product teams at startups and established tech giants alike, finding the right pricing and value proposition often feels more like alchemy than science. It’s a high-stakes game of guesswork involving the complex psychology, shifting values, and ingrained behaviors of your customers. While it can take years of trial and error to dial in, our guest today is here to help us decode the pricing formula and understand the behavioral drivers that make a product indispensable. Etinosa Agbonlahor is a behavioral economist and founder of Decision Alpha, a consultancy that helps businesses understand the psychology behind how people make financial decisions. She’s worked with organizations like Fidelity and Commonwealth Bank of Australia studying how people save, spend, and invest — and she’s turned those insights toward one of the trickiest challenges any business faces: pricing. In this episode, Etinosa walks us through the cognitive shortcuts that shape how customers perceive value — from anchoring and the decoy effect to the surprising power of round numbers. She explains why pricing should be a conversation that starts early in product development, not an afterthought tacked on at launch. And she offers practical guidance for freelancers and studio owners who struggle with that uncomfortable moment of telling a client what they charge. We even put her to work live on the show, walking through the Design Better membership page to diagnose what’s working and what we could improve. Her advice was immediate, specific, and — honestly — a little humbling. Whether you’re designing a SaaS pricing page or figuring out how to raise your freelance rates without apologizing, this one’s packed with insights you can use right away. Bio Etinosa Agbonlahor is a behavioral economist and CEO of Decision Alpha, a behavioral firm that helps businesses understand what customers value and turn that into clearer pricing and growth. Passionate about helping people reduce financial stress and live healthier financial lives, Etinosa brings over a decade of experience working across the U.S., Australia, Africa, and the U.K. She has shaped financial wellbeing, engagement, and customer behavior strategies for global financial institutions, private businesses, and venture-backed startups. Her work has been featured in MarketWatch, Morningstar, and other leading platforms, highlighting her focus on how behavior drives healthier financial outcomes. Etinosa is the author of How to Talk to Your Parents About Money, a guide to navigating complex financial conversations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Both Aarron and I are official Stranger Things nerds. We watched the show ourselves when they came out, and again when our kids were old enough. As children of the 80s, the way it captured that particular feeling of freedom — biking with friends through the neighborhood, the movies and music of the era — struck exactly the right balance of nostalgia: present enough to feel real, but never forced. For that, much of the credit goes to the writers. So, we were thrilled to get a chance to talk to one of the head writers for Stranger Things, Paul Dichter. This is a preview of a premium episode. To hear the whole thing, head over to our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/paul-dichter We’d always wondered what actually happens in a writers’ room for a show like this. Heated debates? Storyboards and character maps to keep a sprawling plot straight? As we learned in this interview: yes to all of it. And in many ways, the writers’ room isn’t so different from the design studio — a place where creative ideas collide and combine, and when it’s working well, produce something greater than the sum of its parts. Paul discusses the dynamics of the Stranger Things writers’ room, describing the diverse roles—from enthusiasts to skeptics—that drive creative teams. He explores the discipline of restraint in using 80s nostalgia and the balance between following systemic logic and knowing when to break the rules for a great idea. There’s also a lot here about how story structure maps onto design work — the idea that every scene needs an engine, that meaningful change has to register at every level, and that the best creative decisions often come not from defending what you already know, but from sitting with a note you hate long enough to find what’s really underneath it. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re all familiar with the tropes around innovation and how it starts. You just need a garage in Silicon Valley, a few geniuses and visionaries, maybe some good snacks. Our guests today help us debunk that myth. Rich Braden and Tessa Forshaw wrote a book called Innovation-ish, and that little “-ish” is doing a lot of work. Rich Braden is a design strategist who’s taught innovation at Stanford and advised companies around the world. Tessa Forshaw is a cognitive scientist whose lab studies the psychology of creativity — why we lose it, and how we get it back. In this conversation, we talk about why most innovation doesn’t have to be a moonshot — and why chasing moonshots might actually be holding your team back. We dig into the neuroscience of what Tessa calls “innovation hesitation,” the tiny amygdala response that makes us reach for certainty instead of possibility. Bios Tessa Forshaw As a co-founder of the Next Level Lab at Harvard University, Tessa specializes in using cognitive science to develop creative and innovative potential in the workforce. She draws upon her academic research as a cognitive scientist and extensive background as a former designer at IDEO CoLAb and Accenture to turn the cognitive processes involved in design, creativity and innovation into practical insights that can be applied in the flow of work. These insights are also the foundations of what she teaches as a design educator at Stanford University and now Harvard University. Recognized for her impactful design projects, Tessa is the recipient of multiple design awards: a Fast Company Design Award for General Excellence, two Core77 Industrial Design Magazine Design Awards, and the Australian American Chamber of Commerce Innovation Awards. Rich Braden Rich Braden is the founder of People Rocket LLC, a strategic innovation firm based in San Francisco. With over 15 years of academic experience, Rich is a recognized thought leader in design thinking, leadership, and innovation. He is a design educator at renowned institutions including Harvard University, Stanford University, and London Business School, helping shape future leaders. As CEO of People Rocket, he works with clients such as Airbnb, Google, the United Nations, Microsoft, Coca-Cola, Starbucks, and Red Cross to drive strategic innovation and responsible AI solutions. Rich holds degrees in Computer and Electrical Engineering from Purdue University and resides in the San Francisco Bay Area. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium benefit: get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luis Mendo is a Spanish-born illustrator based in Nagano, Japan, and his work is unmistakably, irreducibly human. His drawings are populated by bespectacled bird-like figures — part alter ego, part philosophical sparring partner — rendered with the kind of warmth and specificity that no prompt can summon. There’s a hand behind every line, and you feel it. That’s not an accident. It’s a philosophy. Because as we talk about in the show, as non-human intelligence becomes cheaper, the human touch, and real, earned, interpersonal trust will become the rarest currency (to paraphrase Anu Atluru’s quote). Luis’ path is anything but direct. After two decades as a successful art director and editorial designer in Amsterdam — building magazines, running teams, living inside meetings and inboxes — he took a sabbatical in Tokyo and never really came back. Not because the work dried up, but because he found something better: a life built around drawing, shaped by Japanese craftsmanship culture, and grounded in the shokunin ethic that says if you’re going to do a thing, you do it properly, all the way, no shortcuts. Today Luis publishes his work through a membership site he built himself, on his own terms, on a platform he controls. He’s obsessed with making things worth keeping — including a beautifully crafted physical book he sweated every detail of, right down to standing at the press to get the colors right. In a moment when so many of us are asking what creativity even means when machines can approximate it on demand, Luis has an answer: make things that carry your presence. Make things that could only come from you. You can explore his work and join his community at mundomendo.com. Also, Luis has a special offer for Design Better listeners: get 20% off a membership to his site by visiting the link dbtr.co/mundomendo. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today we have two guests from two different companies who have one shared conviction: AI works best when it amplifies people, not replaces them. Today we’re joined by Rachana Rele, VP of Product Design for AI-native products at Adobe, and David Shim, co-founder and CEO of Read AI. Together, they’re building very different products — but they share a vision of AI that removes the drudgery from creative work and makes room for the thinking that actually matters. In this conversation, we dig into some ideas that could genuinely change how you think about your work. David talks about this concept of “storage of intelligence” — the idea that your knowledge, your meeting history, your working style could all be captured and made available as a kind of digital twin that keeps working even when you’re not in the room. And Rachana shares how Adobe is thinking about AI not as a one-shot creative output machine, but as a collaborative partner that helps teams break out of their own blind spots. We also push them on the harder questions — the job anxiety that’s real right now in tech, the surveillance concerns that come with recording your work life, and where they each personally draw the line. Bios David Shim is Co-Founder and CEO of Read AI, an AI productivity platform focused on helping knowledge workers leverage the power of AI to improve how they collaborate, communicate, and get work done. The platform provides meeting insights, search, chat, and proactive recommendations for millions of professionals, integrating seamlessly with the tools teams already use. Read AI is pioneering the concept of the Digital Twin—AI that serves as a true extension of you, built on deep contextual understanding of how you work. Today, Read AI is trusted by teams at 90% of the Fortune 500 and in the past year, was recognized as a Top 10 AI Vendor for Enterprises by Brex, a Top 50 AI App by a16z and Mercury, and named one of Inc.’s Top 16 Companies to Watch Before founding Read AI, David served as CEO of Foursquare and previously founded Placed, which was acquired by Snap in 2017. In 2025, he was named CEO of the Year by Geekwire. Rachana Rele Rachana has spent 20+ years at the intersection of technology and human experience — figuring out not just what to build, but why it matters. At Adobe, she shapes the direction of new products, nurtures ideas from zero to something real, and helps early-stage businesses find their footing and grow. She’s also a perpetual student — currently finishing an MBA at UC Berkeley’s Haas School of Business, with an M.Eng. in HCI from Clemson and a B.E. in Industrial Engineering from the University of Mumbai. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Leonardo Giusti has spent his career in the spaces between disciplines — between art and science, between research and product, between the physical world and the digital one. It’s not a conventional design path, but it’s one that led him to work most designers never get near. This is a preview of a premium episode. Find the full episode on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/leonardo-giusti Leonardo is the co-founder and Chief Design Officer of Archetype AI, a company building foundation models trained not on text or images, but on the continuous stream of sensor data flowing from the real world, like factories, power grids, and city intersections. Before that, he spent nearly seven years at Google’s Advanced Technology and Projects group, where he led design on Project Soli — a miniature radar chip that taught devices to understand human gesture and presence — and Project Jacquard, which wove interactivity into everyday objects like Levi’s jackets and YSL bags. He holds a Ph.D. in human-computer interaction from the University of Florence and spent years as a postdoctoral researcher at MIT’s Design Lab. He’s also filed more than 30 patents (!). What makes Leonardo’s thinking distinctive is his insistence that the metaphors we use to describe AI shape everything — how we build it, how we regulate it, and who it ends up serving. He’s skeptical of the dominant vision of AI as an autonomous agent that does things for us, and is pushing toward something different: AI as a tool we think with. In this conversation, we get into his unusual path to design through cognitive science and robotics, what it actually means to treat emerging technology as a design material, why the chatbot is a primitive interface for the physical world, and why he believes augmenting human intelligence might be the most important design challenge of our time. Bio Leonardo Giusti, Ph.D., is an award-winning design and research director. With over 15 years of experience, he excels in transforming R&D projects into innovative hardware, software, and AI products. Prior to Archetype AI, Leonardo was the Head of Design at Google’s Advanced Technology and Projects, UX Design and Product Lead at Samsung Design and R&D and interaction design lead at MIT Design Lab. Leonardo was a Post-doctoral Associate at MIT Design Labs and completed his Ph.D, in human-computer interaction at the University of Florence. He has filed more than 30 patents, and published more than 40 scientific papers. His work has been featured in the New York Times, Washington Post, Wired, Fast Company and other recognized magazines. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brooke Hopper stays close to her craft. Before she hopped on a call with us to chat about her role at Adobe, she was deep in Cursor prototyping navigation design ideas. Though Brooke holds an individual contributor role after more than a decade at Adobe, she’s managed to have influence and demonstrate leadership without being relegated to management. This is what many designers dream of—craft and career. Bonus content and more on our Substack: ⁠https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/brooke-hopper⁠ As Senior Principal Designer for Machine Intelligence and New Technology, she helped design the very first Firefly experiments and is now working on unreleased tools that raise fundamental questions about whether things like non-destructive editing, or even layers, still mean what they once did. If you listen carefully, you might get some clues about the products Adobe is cooking up next. But Brooke is more than a product thinker. She’s also a design educator, leading a partnership between Adobe and Parsons called “Not Generated” — a name she chose deliberately to start a conversation, not end one. In this episode, we get into what it actually means to use AI as a creative collaborator rather than a shortcut, why design education needs to stop teaching tools and start teaching taste, and why Brooke believes this moment might be the most exciting time in her career. Bio Brooke Hopper is a design leader, speaker, and champion for artists — passionate about building community through creativity and designing better experiences for some of the most talented people in the world. Her work spans platforms and products, always centered on making space for artists and creators to thrive, collaborate, and stay at the heart of the creative process. With years of experience building 0-to-1 products and leading innovation in ambiguous spaces, she turns uncertainty into opportunity — translating bold ideas into tools that empower creative expression. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium benefit: get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You probably already know that exercise, sleep, a good diet, and spending time in nature are the pillars of a healthy life . But what if there’s a fifth pillar we’ve been undervaluing, and in many cases actively cutting? Our guest today argues that the arts belong in that same category. Daisy Fancourt is a Professor of Psychobiology and Epidemiology at University College London, where she heads the Social Biobehavioural Research Group and directs the World Health Organization’s Collaborating Centre on Arts and Health. She’s one of the most cited scientists in her field, and her work sits at a genuinely unusual intersection: the rigorous, data-heavy world of epidemiology and the seemingly softer world of creative practice. Her new book, Art Cure: The Science of How the Arts Save Lives, makes a case that’s hard to dismiss: that engaging with the arts changes your gene expression, slows your biological aging, reduces your risk of dementia, depression, and chronic pain, and actually helps you live longer. She’s done the longitudinal studies across 52 countries, and she’s lived it personally, watching her premature daughter’s vitals stabilize in the NICU as she sang to her. For designers and creative professionals, this conversation raises some genuinely thorny questions about whether creative work counts, what burnout is actually doing to your body, and why the arts budget is always the first thing to cut even when the data says it probably shouldn’t be. Bio Daisy Fancourt (born June 1990) is a British Professor of Psychobiology and Epidemiology at University College London (UCL) and Head of the Social Biobehavioural Research Group. She is a leading researcher on the health impacts of arts, culture, and social prescribing. Fancourt previously worked in NHS arts programs, has published over 300 papers, and directed a major study on COVID-19's mental health impacts. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. New premium benefit: get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** If you’re interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com If you’d like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you’ve ever wondered what a movie production designer actually does, our guest today describes it in the simplest terms: it is everything you see in the frame that isn’t a costume. It turns out, production design has a lot in common with product design. Our guest is the visionary production designer Fiona Crombie. You’ve seen her work in incredible films like The Favourite, and most recently, in the hauntingly beautiful Hamnet. This film is currently taking the industry by storm with eight Academy Award nominations, including a nod for Fiona herself for Best Production Design. Trailer for Hamnet, nominated for 8 Academy Awards in including Fiona Crombie for production design From the sprawling architecture of a Tudor estate down to the specific curve of a spoon or the texture of a tablecloth, Fiona’s job is to build a physical reality that reflects the interior lives of the characters on screen. In our conversation, we explore how production design shapes performance, how historical accuracy balances with storytelling, how a visual “mission statement” guides an entire crew, and what it means to create environments that carry grief, love, and memory. Bio Fiona Crombie is an Australian production designer, twice nominated for the Academy Award for Best Production Design — for The Favourite and Hamnet. Born in Adelaide and raised in Sydney, she trained at the National Institute of Dramatic Art (NIDA) before becoming the resident designer at the Sydney Theatre Company, where she developed the deep relationship with text and storytelling that still shapes her work today. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium benefit: get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Most musicians start learning at an early age—or so we think. But that wasn’t the path our guest today took. He was an arty kid—drawing and painting in his bedroom—then a film teacher, before he became the musical success he is today. This is a preview of a premium episode. Find the full interview on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/sam-beam Five time Grammy-nominated Sam Beam—who you know as Iron & Wine—told us his music career still feels like a bit of a fluke, even though it’s been over half his life now. Things started to come together for him when he got his hands on a 4-track recorder. Suddenly, music wasn’t about performing—it was about making something that he could develop and refine, just like a drawing. We talk about how he balances prolific output with raising five daughters, why he used to keep “office hours” for creativity, and how a successful day can be as simple as finding one good lyric. We also dig into collaboration—how working with other musicians and even his daughter Arden on the new record pushes him outside his comfort zone. And why he believes your art should be like a mirror reflecting something. Sam’s new record Hen’s Teeth drops today—February 27th—and he’s heading out on tour hitting Australia, the Midwest, East Coast, and West Coast. But first, we wanted to understand how someone who came from visual art built one of the most distinctive voices in American folk music. Bio Sam Beam is a singer-songwriter who has been creating music as Iron & Wine for over two decades. Through the course of eight albums, numerous EPs and singles, and the initial volumes of an Archive Series - Iron & Wine has captured the emotion and imagination of listeners with distinctly cinematic songs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’ve all heard the mythology around great ideas: the lone genius struck by inspiration, the eureka moment in the bath or shower. But George Newman believes we’ve been thinking about creativity in the wrong way. This is a preview of a premium episode. To hear the whole thing, head over to our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/george-newman George is a cognitive scientist who’s spent years studying where great ideas actually come from, and his research reveals something surprising: creativity might be less like magic and more like archaeology. In his book How Great Ideas Happen, he argues that ideas aren’t just born in our brains—they’re discovered through a systematic process of excavation. In our conversation, George walks us through the four stages of creative archaeology: surveying the landscape, gridding out the problem space, digging without judgment, and sifting through what you’ve found. He shares fascinating research on “hot streaks”—that pattern where creators explore widely, strike a rich vein of ideas, mine it completely, then move on. And he challenges one of Silicon Valley’s most cherished beliefs, namely that ideas without execution are worthless, using evidence from a study done on Quirky.com showing that good ideas really are worth waiting for. If you’ve ever felt stuck waiting for inspiration to strike, or wondered whether creativity can actually be systematized without losing its magic, this conversation offers both the science and the practical steps to help you uncover your next breakthrough. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. New premium benefit: get a behind-the-scenes pass to every episode with The Roundup, where each week we bring you insights and actionable tactics from recent episodes. Premium subscribers get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books. You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Redesigning one of the world’s most-used apps is no small feat, especially when that app is also the second largest search engine in the world: YouTube. Over the last four years, Nate Koechly, UX Director at YouTube, and Matthew Darby, Director of Product Management, have been leading an ambitious effort to balance Google’s metrics-driven culture with the subjective challenge of making an app feel “modern.” Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/nate-koechly-and-matthew-darby In our conversation, Nate and Matt share how they developed predictive measurement tools to gauge user perception, why they pair visual updates with quality-of-life features like comment threading and improved video controls, and how their research process has evolved from measuring clicks to understanding satisfied watch time. We also dig into one of YouTube’s most complex challenges: the algorithm. As Nate and Matt explain, what users say they want doesn’t always match what actually makes them happy on the platform. They also discuss their work exploring ways to give viewers more agency and control, including the possibility of using natural language to tune your feed. Both guests have a genuine passion for how YouTube enables deep expertise and niche interests to find their audiences—from 3D models of the Golden Gate Bridge to forest fire education from Northern California lookouts. Behind the algorithms and design updates is a platform where, as Nate puts it, “when you give people a voice, the things they say are just inspiring.” *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** If you’re interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com If you’d like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When we last spoke with Bill Burnett, it was in 2020 and he’d just published his book Designing Your Work Life, co-authored by Dave Evans. The world was in the midst of a pandemic, and work and careers seemed very uncertain. Along with their other bestselling book, Designing Your Life, millions of people found guidance and a process for re-framing how to approach their career and life plans in general, inspired by a methodology that Bill taught during his many years in the Stanford design program. This is a preview of a premium episode. To listen to the full interview, visit: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/bill-burnett-returns Over the intervening years, Bill and Dave had countless conversations with people who had—at least to some degree—”figured out” work , family, and friends, but still felt stuck. They were stuck on the question of meaning. Bill told us that asking, “What is the meaning of life?” is not the right question. Instead, we should be asking “How can I find meaning IN life?”. In their new book, How to Live a Meaningful Life, Bill and Dave aspire to give you tools and ideas to help you make a life rich with meaning and purpose. In our conversation, we dig into the loneliness epidemic, especially among Gen Z, and why so many people look to work to provide meaning when work isn’t actually set up to do that. Bill introduces a powerful framework: Wonder, Coherence, Flow, and Community which are the four components of meaning-making and influence longevity. If you’ve ever felt like you’re checking all the boxes but still missing something, this conversation offers a practical, design-driven way forward. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To make good creative work, you’ll inevitably do a lot of bad work along the way. So building a thriving creative practice relies on showing up and doing the work consistently, whether you feel inspired or not. And we can get trapped into thinking that if only we had the perfect space, or the best pen, or right notebook, it would all be easier. This is a preview of a premium episode. To listen to the full interview, visit: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/austin-kleon But our guest today, Austin Kleon, has built a remarkable creative practice around a deceptively simple toolkit: index cards, newspapers, scissors, and glue. He’s the bestselling author of Steal Like an Artist, Show Your Work, Keep Going, and Don’t Call it Art. What makes Austin’s approach so valuable is how he’s translated these ideas into a sustainable daily practice that’s lasted over a decade. In our conversation, Austin shares why he starts every day writing in his diary before he picks up the phone, how constraints (time, space and materials) actually unlock creativity rather than limiting it, and why the path to doing your best digital work might start with picking up a pen. If you’ve ever struggled to maintain a creative practice, felt overwhelmed by tools and options, or wondered how to keep going when the work feels hard, this episode is for you. Bio Austin Kleon is the New York Times bestselling author of a trilogy of illustrated books about creativity in the digital age: Steal Like An Artist, Show Your Work!, and Keep Going. He’s also the author of Newspaper Blackout, a collection of poems made by redacting the newspaper with a permanent marker. His books have sold over two million copies and have been translated into over 30 languages. He’s been featured on NPR’s Morning Edition, PBS Newshour, and in The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. New York Magazine called his work “brilliant,” The Atlantic called him “positively one of the most interesting people on the Internet,” and The New Yorker said his poems “resurrect the newspaper when everybody else is declaring it dead.” He speaks for organizations such as Pixar, Google, Netflix, SXSW, TEDx, Dropbox, Adobe, and The Economist. In previous lives, he worked as a librarian, a web designer, and an advertising copywriter. He lives in Austin, Texas, with his wife and sons. Visit him online at www.austinkleon.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Every four years, the Olympic Games capture the world’s attention—not just through athletic achievement, but through a complete visual identity that must resonate across cultures, languages, and generations. It’s one of the most demanding design challenges in the world: creating a brand that honors Olympic heritage while reflecting the unique spirit of a host city and region. This is a preview of a premium episode on Design Better. To hear the whole thing, subscribe via our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/raffaella-panie Raffaela Panie is the Brand, Identity and Look Director for the Milano Cortina 2026 Olympic Winter Games—which means she’s responsible for how billions of people will experience these games visually, from the opening ceremony to the medals, from venue designs to digital platforms. It’s a project that requires balancing tradition with innovation, local culture with global recognition, and multiple stakeholders with a singular creative vision. In our conversation, Raffaela shares what it takes to design for one of the world’s most recognizable brands, how she’s weaving Italian design heritage into the visual language of the games, and the unique challenges of creating an identity that needs to work everywhere from mountain venues in Cortina to urban spaces in Milano—all while serving athletes, spectators, broadcasters, and digital audiences simultaneously. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We recorded this special live episode of Design Better at Sequoia Capital in Silicon Valley, with our Experts in Residence: Irene Au, Kevin Bethune, and James Buckhouse. Longtime listeners will recognize these names—Irene appeared on Episode 1 of Design Better, we explored Kevin’s remarkable journey from nuclear engineer to Air Jordan designer in episode 72, and we visited James at Sequoia Capital for a live AMA last year. Together, they’ve shaped how businesses build, how design operates at scale, and how creativity thrives inside technology and venture capital. Irene Au led the design practices at Yahoo! and Google during their formative years. Now a Design Partner at Khosla Ventures, she coaches designers, executives, and founders from seed stage through exit. Kevin Bethune is a multidisciplinary design and innovation executive. His career spans nuclear engineering, product creation at Nike, and formal design training at ArtCenter. Kevin wrote two MIT Press books—Reimagining Design and Nonlinear. And he’s the host of the TV show, America ByDesign on CBS. James Buckhouse is a Design Partner at Sequoia working with founders from idea to IPO to design companies, products, and cultures. His multidisciplinary career spans film (Shrek, Madagascar, The Matrix), fine art (exhibited at the Whitney Biennial and Guggenheim), ballet, and technology (Senior Experience Architect at Twitter). Over the course of this conversation, we cover the evolution of design in technology, the value of diverse backgrounds in design, how technology is reshaping what designers do and how they work, cross-cultural design perspectives, and much more. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** If you’re interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com If you’d like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There was a time when a movie title sequence was just the moment you grabbed your popcorn and waited for the real show to start. But in the mid-90s and early 2000’s, that changed forever with films like Seven and shows like Mad Men and Stranger Things. The title sequence became a prologue—a metaphor for the film itself. This is a preview of a premium episode. To listen to the full interview, head over to our Substack:https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/mikon-van-gastel Our guest today, Mikon van Gastel, was right there in the trenches of that revolution. After a formative and intense education at the Cranbrook Academy of Art—where the only teachers were artists in residence and your toughest critics were your peers—Mikon cut his teeth at the legendary studio Imaginary Forces. Today, Mikon is the Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer of Sibling Rivalry, a hybrid brand studio and production company he founded with his best friend, Joe Wright. They’ve built a reputation for work that blurs the lines between branding, storytelling, and architecture. In this episode, we explore the sheer scale of modern experience design. Mikon takes us behind the scenes of his work for the Sphere in Las Vegas—a venue he calls the “Champions League of content creation”. We discuss how to design for shared emotion, balancing the “collective gasp” of a 20,000-person audience with moments of intimate connection. We also dig into the business of creativity. Mikon opens up about the “sleepless nights” of running an agency in a project-based economy and how he refuses to transition fully into a management role, preferring to write treatments and stay hands-on with the work on nights and weekends. Whether you are designing software interfaces or directing films, Mikon’s philosophy on collaboration and stripping away the noise to serve the core idea is something we can all learn from. Bio Mikon van Gastel is Director, CEO, and Co-Founder of creative agency Sibling Rivalry, based in New York and Miami. Originally from Holland, he earned his MFA from Cranbrook Academy of Art before launching his career at Imaginary Forces, where he designed award-winning title sequences for feature films and theatrical trailers. Van Gastel’s work spans multiple disciplines, with notable projects in architecture and experience design including MoMA’s interactive signage system, BMW World in Munich, the digital displays at Santiago Calatrava’s World Trade Center Oculus, and most recently, immersive films for the world’s first keynote inside The Sphere in Las Vegas. He also created a VR series with renowned curator Paola Antonelli. He continues to direct commercial campaigns and product launches for major brands including Apple TV+, Ford, Google, Target, BVLGARI, and Vogue, working with high-profile talent such as Drake, Taylor Swift, Lionel Messi, and Lewis Hamilton. Van Gastel speaks internationally about design integration and emerging industry trends at cultural and educational institutions worldwide. *** This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As 2025 draws to a close, it’s time to pause and take stock of what’s been a transformational year in design. From Figma’s landmark IPO to the rise of AI across every category of product, to major brand evolutions at Nike, Netflix, and The New York Times—this year has been defined by what our guest today calls “mass acceleration.” Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/mark-wilson Mark Wilson is the Global Design Editor at Fast Company, where he’s been tracking these seismic shifts, reporting on everything from the architecture of data centers to the comeback of wired headphones. He’s a journalist who straddles multiple worlds—covering the design industry, and now co-hosting the By Design podcast. He’s someone who can explain why Labuboos became an unlikely cultural phenomenon and why your kids might be more interested in building with Chompsaw than staring at a screen. Today, we’re looking back at 2025 with Mark to understand not just what happened, but what it all means. We’ll explore the biggest moments in design and business, and tackle the uncomfortable questions about AI—are we in a bubble? Is it actually making us more productive? And what does the future hold for designers in an automated world? We’ll also dig into the design industry’s blind spots, the problems that aren’t getting solved because they’re not sexy or VC-fundable, and why there’s a growing hunger for physical craft and working with our hands in a world increasingly mediated by screens. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’re taking a holiday break, so we’re rewinding to one of our favorite episodes this year with Cassie McDaniel, Medium’s head of design. We’re also including video from the episode, which you can watch here or on our YouTube channel at dbtr.co/youtube. We hope you have a lovely holiday season with your family, friends, and loved ones. —Eli & Aarron *** Cassie McDaniel, Medium’s head of design, is someone with a clear vision for how a design team should work. She believes team members should have a breadth of skills, craft should be the foundation of product design, and experimentation is important in both work and workflow. To that end, Cassie and the leadership team at Medium recently made what some might see as a controversial decision: They eliminated product management. The result? They are moving faster than ever. We chat with Cassie about what led to this decision—and why it might not work for all teams, how she thinks about balancing Medium’s legacy of thoughtful design while moving the product forward, and how writing can help you advance your design career. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A larger than life figure in the creative world, Aaron Draplin has been designing everything from logos to posters since 1995. Few designers are as prolific as Aaron. He’s the founder of Draplin Design Co. (DDC). Priding himself on craftsmanship and quality, the DDC has made stuff for Field Notes, Esquire, Nike, Red Wing, Burton Snowboards, Ford, and he’s even designed a US stamp. Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/aaron-draplin We caught up with Aaron in person at The James Brand studio in Portland, Oregon, where he walked us through an origin story that begins with a meteor in Navajo country and winds through the skate parks of Michigan in the 80s, the snowboard culture of the 90s, and eventually to one of the most recognizable voices in American graphic design. But this isn’t just a conversation about making cool stuff—though there’s plenty of that. Aaron opens up about the work ethic he learned from his parents, and why being prolific isn’t about perfection—it’s about experimentation, and loving your work enough to show up every single day. We talk about collecting, organizing thousands of ideas, and what it means to run a design practice where you can still work on your own terms. And throughout it all, Aaron brings the humor, the heart, and the hard-won wisdom of someone who’s never forgotten what it’s like to work a crappy job—and who reminds himself every day just how cool a life in graphic design really is. Bio Aaron Draplin was born in Detroit in 1973 and raised in the small village of Central Lake in Northern Michigan—population 800. After a brief stint at Northwestern Michigan Community College, he moved west to Bend, Oregon at 19 to chase the snowboarding life, and started designing graphics for Solid Snowboards. To fund his winters, he worked summers as everything from a traveling fair pizza wagon cook, to a dishwasher in Anchorage, Alaska. He eventually returned to the Midwest to finish his design degree at Minneapolis College of Art and Design, before heading back west to become art director of Snowboarder Magazine in Southern California. In 2002, he moved to Portland to work as a senior designer at Cinco Design, where he worked on brands like Gravis, Helly Hansen, and Nixon. In 2004, Aaron founded Draplin Design Co., working with clients ranging from Nike and Patagonia to Sub Pop Records and the Obama Administration. In 2009, he co-founded Field Notes with Jim Coudal and Coudal Partners—a collaboration that would become one of the most successful and beloved stationery brands in America. That same year, he gave his first public talk, which spiraled into a speaking career that’s now reached over 580 engagements worldwide. His book Pretty Much Everything was published by Abrams in 2016 and is now in its 13th printing. At 51, Aaron continues to run his fiercely independent design practice from a backyard shop in Portland, Oregon. *** This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jessica Hische and Chris Shiflett first crossed paths at Studiomates, a Brooklyn based co-working space where some of New York’s most talented designers built businesses and influential organizations. Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jessica-hische-and-chris-shiflett Jessica, known for her lettering and illustration work with clients like Wes Anderson and The New York Times, and Chris, whose career spans from the early foundations of the web to co-founding Brooklyn Beta, both experienced firsthand what happens when passionate, independent creatives come together. Today, they’re channeling those lessons into Studioworks, a business platform built specifically for independent studios and creative professionals. They’re tackling the unglamorous but essential parts of running a creative practice—invoicing, project management, client relationships—with the same care and community spirit that defined those Brooklyn days. In this conversation, we talk about the magic of Studiomates and Brooklyn Beta, what they learned from running their own studios for years, and why they decided to bootstrap a tool for the creative community rather than chase venture capital. It’s a story about building something sustainable, beautiful, and genuinely useful for the people who make things. Bios Jessica Hische is one of the most beloved and influential designers of the past two decades. She’s best known for her lettering and illustration, but equally for her generosity in sharing what she knows. Jessica was part of the original Studiomates community in Brooklyn, has worked with clients like Wes Anderson, The New York Times, and Penguin Books, and now brings her creative leadership to Studioworks, where she and Chris are building better tools for independent creatives and small studios. Chris Shiflett is a longtime friend of the design community whose career spans the deep foundations of the early web and the heart of the creative world. His early books on HTTP and web security became unexpectedly influential at a time when the internet was still taking shape, opening the door to some extraordinary projects — including one that generated nearly half of the internet’s traffic and another responsible for a fourth of the world’s email. After years helping big internet companies solve scalability problems, he realized he was more inspired by the people creating them — the designers, founders, and builders making things people love. That shift led him to the original Studiomates community, to co-founding Brooklyn Beta, and ultimately to the work he and Jessica are doing today with Studioworks. Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It’s that time of year again—our favorite episode to put together. A moment to look back at the objects, experiences, and ideas that sparked creativity for us this year. From books that moved us to tools that surprised us to experiences we can’t stop recommending, we’ve gathered a set of gift ideas for the designers, makers, and curious people in your life (including you). We’re starting with budget-friendly picks and moving up from there, so whether you’re filling a stocking or going big, you’ll find something here. Let’s get into it. *** Before we get to the list, if you’re looking to give (or get) the gift of education, for the next week only you can get or gift a year of premium for 25% off, our only sale of the year. Buying a year-long subscription will get you to our ever-expanding Design Better Toolkit (with over $2K in discounts on tools and courses), as well as monthly AMAs, ad-free episodes, and our library of books. Doing this also supports anyone who can’t afford a subscription through our scholarship program. 25% off a year, expires in 1 week *** Find the full gift list on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/2025-holiday-gift-guide Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Changing the culture of a 400,000-person company isn’t just hard—it’s the kind of transformation most leaders wouldn’t even attempt. But when Phil Gilbert joined IBM as General Manager of Design in 2010, that’s exactly what he set out to do. And remarkably, he had a lot of success. Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/phil-gilbert Phil led one of the most ambitious design transformations in corporate history, hiring over 1,000 designers, creating IBM’s design thinking framework, and embedding a new way of working across nearly 180 countries. Now, with his new book Irresistible Change, Phil is sharing the blueprint for how he did it—and more importantly, how you can apply these lessons to your own organization. In this episode, we talk with Phil about treating change like a high-stakes product, why IBM’s transformation was opt-in rather than top-down, and what it takes to win over engineers who’ve spent decades deeply entrenched in a technical worldview. We also explore the design thinking bootcamp that became legendary within IBM, the intentional design of physical studio spaces, and what happened after Phil left the company. Phil’s insights aren’t just for those leading massive organizations—they’re for anyone trying to spark meaningful change, build enthusiasm without mandates, and create work that actually matters to the people doing it. Bio Phil Gilbert is best known for leading IBM’s 21st century transformation as their General Manager of Design. After selling his third startup to IBM in 2010, Phil was asked by IBM in 2012 to use design thinking, coupled with agile, to update how IBM’s teams worked. The transformation became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary film The Loop, and feature articles in the New York Times, Fortune Magazine, Forbes, Bloomberg, INC and many others. Phil’s 45-year career spans startups, large corporations, and board memberships, where he has led organizations ranging from solo ventures to those with 400,000 employees. In 2018 Phil was inducted into the New York Foundation for the Arts’ Hall of Fame. In 2019, the State of Oklahoma (Phil’s native state) named him an Oklahoma Creativity Ambassador for his achievements in the world of creative thinking and innovation. Phil left full-time operational responsibilities at IBM in 2022 in order to focus on helping the next generation of entrepreneurs, business, and military leaders understand how to impact culture at scale, to improve innovation and team performance. Phil lives in Austin, Texas. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid *** If you’re interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com If you’d like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’ve talked to many design leaders who have burned out after a decade or more of corporate work. But after 17 years at Philips designing health innovations, Cecilia Brenner wasn’t burnt out…she loved it. And she wanted to find a way to scale her sense of purpose, so she joined Design for Good as Managing Director, and found a way to work with hundreds of designers who want meaningful impact without leaving their day jobs. This is a preview of a premium episode, find the full episode on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/cecilia-brenner Design for Good mobilizes what Cecilia calls a “radical global action collective”—1,600 designers from companies like Philips, Lloyds Bank, and others—to tackle UN Sustainable Development Goals through focused, two-year cycles. Their first cycle addressed clean water and sanitation. Now they’re working on quality education. And here’s the twist: everything they create is open source. In our conversation, Cecilia explains how Design for Good measures real impact (not estimated future impact), why they chose to focus on one SDG at a time instead of spreading resources thin, and what it means to design for “all life,” not just human life. If you’ve ever wondered how to find more meaning in your design work—or questioned whether purpose-driven projects actually move the needle—this episode offers a surprisingly practical model. Bio Cecilia Brenner is the Managing Director of Design for Good, a global alliance dedicated to creating lasting, measurable impact for the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). Since joining in May 2024, Cecilia has successfully led the charity in mobilising hundreds of creatives to design in close collaboration with NGOs and affected communities worldwide. With over 25 years of international experience in design and leadership, Cecilia is a catalyst for inclusion, innovation, and impact. She previously served as an Experience Design Director & Business Partner at Philips, where she spent 17 years improving people’s health and well-being through meaningful innovation, building high-performing, engaged global design teams and communities, as well as leading transformational programmes with a unique blend of network leadership, team-building excellence, and strategic insight. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books: You’ll also get access to our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. And subscribers at the annual level now get access to the Design Better Toolkit, which gets you major discounts and free access to tools and courses that will help you unlock new skills, make your workflow more efficient, and take your creativity further. Upgrade to paid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a preview of a premium episode. You can find a video version of the full episode on our YouTube channel: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dvoGPZEY1g⁠ We’ve been on the road this week, recording some in-person episodes in Portland Oregon, with Ryan Coulter—co-founder of The James Brand, and the wonderfully hilarious graphic designer Aaron Draplin. We’re excited to bring you this episodes soon, and in the meantime we’re rewinding to one of our favorite episodes this year with Prince of Persia creator Jordan Mechner. You may have heard that we’re publishing more video from our episodes, and you can now find a video version of this episode on YouTube. Enjoy! *** As a kid in the 80’s, Eli fell in love with games on computers like the Apple II, Commodore 64, and later the Amiga and Macintosh. One of the very first games he played was called Karateka, which was inspiring for the realistic movements of its digital karate antagonists, even on a black-and-green Apple II monitor. Our guest today, Jordan Mechner, created Karateka while an undergrad at Yale University in 1984, and it went on to be a commercial success. He followed it up with the game Prince of Persia (you’ll hear a clip from the soundtrack in the introduction, which Jordan’s father composed and which Jordan invented a way to transpose onto the Apple II’s tinny speakers before game soundtracks were widespread on the machine). Jordan documented the creation of the game in a wonderful published version of his diaries called The Making of Prince of Persia, and we spoke with him about how he taught himself the skills to build successful video games in a pre-internet era, why he journaled about his work process (and what it taught him), and about his new graphic novel Replay, a memoir recounting his own family story of war, exile and new beginnings. Karateka on the Apple IIPrince of Persia on the Apple II (play the Mac version online here) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As educators, we’ve grown wary of the term “safe spaces,” especially when what many students really need is a space to engage with “dangerous” ideas. But true dialogue doesn’t begin with risk—it starts with trust. Our guest today, Ben Swire, wrote the book Safe Danger, which offers a thoughtful, practical approach to building the psychological safety that allows curiosity, connection, and even productive disagreement to flourish. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/ben-swire-former-ideo-design-lead Ben’s career took him from the buttoned-up world of financial marketing to IDEO—a shift he describes as going “from Kansas into Oz.” At IDEO, he discovered that world-class work could be fueled by something radically different than what he’d experienced everywhere else. That discovery led him to spend years exploring a deceptively simple question: How do you get people to fail but enjoy doing it? The answer became the foundation of his book and his work—a concept he calls “Safe Danger,” that sweet spot where people feel safe enough to leave safety behind, but challenged enough to grow. In this conversation, we’ll explore why team building desperately needs reclaiming, how an introvert ended up running a team building company, and why the quality of your relationships at work matters way more than you think. Get the book Bio Ben Swire is an award-winning designer and writer, and former Design Lead at IDEO. His work spans design thinking, philosophy, cinema, and psychoanalytic theory, driven by curiosity about the hidden factors that shape our lives. At IDEO, Ben created Make Believe Time, a bi-weekly creative play date where colleagues learned, created, and meaningfully connected. When interest spread beyond IDEO, Make Believe Works was born—now helping organizations from Fortune 500 companies to startups build the creative and emotional muscle memory that leads to healthy, innovative, collaborative cultures. *** New tools in the Toolkit We’ve just upgraded the Design Better Toolkit, with new tools and other perks (now worth almost $2K in total). Here’s what’s new in the Toolkit: TextExpander (a wonderful productivity tool, 6 months free) Kittl (tools and templates to support your creative process, 6 months free) Subatomic: The Complete Guide to Design Tokens (20% off) Design Better Coffee & Tea (fuel your creativity, 15% off). Some of these perks are very limited and will sell out quickly. Get the Toolkit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices