Explore every episode of the podcast Contact Center Show

Amas Tenumah explains why customer service is not "broken" but intentionally designed to fail. Drawing on decades inside contact centers, historical research, and real corporate incentives, he argues that long waits, deflection, and automation-first strategies are features—not bugs. The conversation dismantles common CX myths, challenges executive complacency, and frames consumer behavior as the only force capable of triggering real change.

Core Themes

• The Suffering Economy of Customer Service:
  When service is universally bad across industries, it's systemic. Incentives—not incompetence—drive outcomes.

• Why This Is a "How Dare You" Book:
  The indictment is aimed squarely at executives who treat service as a cost center while overfunding marketing narratives.

• Marketing Replaced Service as Trust Mechanism:
  Historically, service was marketing. Industrialized marketing severed that link, allowing companies to tolerate bad service and buy growth instead.

• Metrics That Poison Service:
  Deflection, containment, and avoidance KPIs reward companies for not talking to customers—while punishing leaders who try to deliver what customers actually want.

• Wait Times Are Engineered:
  Hold times are budgeted, modeled, and accepted. They are designed friction, not operational accidents.

• AI as Distance, Not Salvation:
  AI is currently deployed to protect companies from customers, not customers from friction. It scales avoidance unless incentives change.

• Executives Don't Experience Their Own Service:
  Many leaders despise customer service—just not their own. Forcing executives to call their own 1-800 numbers is revelatory and uncomfortable.

• The Revolt Is Consumer-Led:
  Change will not come from CX professionals alone. It comes when consumers punish bad service with their wallets and reward companies that respect their time.

Notable Moments

• The opening story of the 1750 BC clay tablet complaint—the first recorded customer service grievance—reads like a modern Amazon review.

• The Chipotle refund anecdote exposes time theft: hours of customer labor to recover trivial amounts of money.

• The contrast between automation done for customers versus automation used to avoid them.

Practical Takeaways

• For Consumers:
  Vote with your wallet. Pay slightly more. Wait one more day. Call customer service before you buy big-ticket items.

• For Service Leaders:
  If your CEO doesn't believe in service as value creation, your job is to change their mind—or change jobs. Data plus customer stories are the leverage.

• For Executives:
  Service is deferred revenue protection. Treating it purely as cost is strategic malpractice.

Resources Mentioned

• Book: HOLD: The Suffering Economy of Customer Service — And the Revolt That's Long Overdue

• Signed Copies & Tools: waitingforservice.com

  • Consumer scripts

  • Cancellation guides

  • Practitioner playbooks

  • No email required

 

Summary

The conversation explores the integration of AI in sales, focusing on how it enhances customer engagement and improves sales efficiency. Bob Furniss discusses the importance of using data to empower salespeople rather than reducing their numbers, emphasizing a customer-centric approach to AI in sales.

 

 

Takeaways

AI can enhance customer engagement in sales.
The focus should be on empowering salespeople with data.
AI is not just about reducing costs but improving efficiency.
Sales strategies should prioritize customer needs.
Data-driven insights can lead to better sales outcomes.
AI can make sales calls faster and smarter.
The role of AI is to support, not replace, sales personnel.
Understanding customer needs is crucial in sales.
AI tools should be designed to assist sales processes.
The future of sales lies in the integration of technology and human touch.

 

We're back from summer break (okay, maybe fall break too) and diving straight into the mess where AI, customers, and reality collide. In this episode, Amas and Bob unpack the hype vs. the truth about AI in contact centers:

• Is AI replacing humans—or just making customers angrier?

• Why human agents are still the heart of service, even as bots sound more "human."

• How contact center leaders feel stuck—between CEOs chanting "AI, AI, AI" and customers who just want their problems solved.

• What the data really says about automation, agent workloads, and customer expectations.

• Practical advice for leaders: use AI to reduce after-call work, not replace human connection.

We also share personal summer highlights—Amas' trip to Italy with his son, Bob's perfect beach-and-donut days—and a fiery debate about tipping culture.

Finally, big news: The Contact Center Show is hitting the road! Catch us live at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando (October 27–30). We'll have guests, fresh perspectives, and maybe even say the things your CEO wishes you wouldn't.

Key Takeaways

• AI isn't the enemy. The problem is how it's rolled out—done to agents, not for them.

• Agents aren't disappearing. Industry headcount is actually growing, despite automation hype.

• Data is your weapon. Use it to show execs that customers can tell when a bot can handle it—and when they need a human.

• Customer trust is fragile. Overcomplicate service and they'll punish you with churn and complaints.

• Leadership focus must return to people. Coaching, development, and real support matter more than the next shiny tool.

Episode Quotes

• "I don't hear the C-suite anymore talking about our people as the difference. It's just AI, AI, AI." – Amas

• "It's not about reducing talk time. It's about reducing the after-call work so agents can get back to serving." – Bob

• "Adoption is failing in many companies because reps just ignore the tools. You're doing it to them, not for them." – Amas

Resources & Links

• Register for ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando → https://www.icmi.com/contact-center-expo-conference

• Follow Amas on LinkedIn: @amastenumah

Next Steps

Want us to bring The Contact Center Show to your company, campus, or event? Reach out—we'll say the things you can't without getting fired.

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intersection of sports fandom and the business of contact centers, particularly focusing on business process outsourcing (BPO). They explore the reasons companies choose to outsource their customer service operations, the challenges involved, and the evolving landscape of the BPO industry. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding core competencies, cost savings, and the need for competent consultants in the BPO space.

 

 

Takeaways

The NBA Finals can evoke strong emotions and rivalries.
BPOs are third-party services handling customer interactions.
Cost savings is the primary reason for outsourcing.
Companies often outsource to focus on their core competencies.
Successful outsourcing requires understanding what to delegate.
BPOs can leverage scale and technology for efficiency.
Choosing the right outsourcing partner is crucial.
AI is changing the landscape of customer service.
Consultants with deep contact center experience are valuable.
The BPO industry is evolving to include more tech services.

Chapters

00:00 NBA Finals and Personal Rivalries
01:15 Understanding BPOs and Contact Centers
02:26 The Decision to Outsource
03:35 Implementing Outsourcing Strategies
06:25 The BPO Industry's Shift to AI
08:07 Core Competencies in Outsourcing
10:52 Final Thoughts on BPO and Customer Care

Summary

In this heartfelt conversation, Bob Furniss shares the story of his daughter Keisha, who bravely battled breast cancer and inspired many through her positivity and strength. Bob discusses the impact of her life, the challenges of writing a book about her journey, and the mission of the nonprofit established in her honor to raise awareness about breast health. The conversation emphasizes the importance of early detection and encourages listeners to take action in their own lives.

Takeaways

Keisha was a light in the world, known for her positivity.
Bob wrote the book to honor Keisha's legacy and help others.
The nonprofit aims to raise awareness about breast health.
Early detection of breast cancer is crucial for survival.
Keisha's story is a reminder to cherish loved ones.
Bob encourages open conversations about health in families.
The book captures the essence of Keisha's spirit.
Bob's journey of writing was both challenging and healing.
The nonprofit provides resources for young women regarding breast health.
Keisha's impact continues through the stories shared by others.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Weekend Highlights
02:54 The Story of Keisha: A Daughter's Legacy
05:58 Keisha's Impact and Personality
08:56 The Journey of Writing the Book
11:48 The Nonprofit Mission and Its Connection to Keisha
15:09 Encouraging Action: Breast Health Awareness
17:52 Reflections on Loss and Legacy
21:11 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

 

📚 Get the book: On to Blue (available on Amazon in all formats)

🌐 Support the cause: www.warriorprincess.org

If you're a parent, friend, or leader—especially in a contact center full of women aged 25–45—listen to this conversation. Then talk to the women in your life.

👉 And ask her.

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss various aspects of customer service, focusing on trends, the importance of human interaction, and the role of AI. They reflect on personal experiences with customer service, emphasizing the need for effective communication and the challenges faced by contact centers. The discussion highlights customer preferences, skepticism towards AI, and the potential for technology to enhance human agents rather than replace them.

Takeaways

Customer service impacts loyalty, trust, and brand reputation.
Ineffective customer service can quickly damage a brand's reputation.
Customers still prefer human interaction, especially older demographics.
AI is not yet fully capable of replacing human agents in customer service.
Many customers are skeptical about the use of AI in service.
The majority of customers still want to talk to a human.
Self-service options can be frustrating for customers who prefer direct contact.
AI can be used to support agents rather than replace them.
Effective communication is crucial in addressing customer needs.
Understanding customer preferences is key to improving service.

Chapters

00:00 Weekend Reflections and Brisket Adventures
01:11 Customer Service Trends: Insights from the Article
03:49 The Importance of Human Interaction in Customer Service
07:37 AI in Customer Service: Current Limitations and Future Potential
10:59 Customer Preferences: The Skepticism Towards AI
11:52 Effective Use of AI: Enhancing Human Agents
14:12 Navigating the Future of Customer Service

 

https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/customer-service-trends-show-what-customers-really-want-its-not-just-ai/ 

This conversation delves into the critical role of frontline supervisors in contact centers, exploring the challenges they face, the future of their roles amidst technological advancements, and effective leadership strategies to support them. The discussion emphasizes the importance of human connection in leadership and the need for organizations to prioritize the well-being and development of their frontline supervisors.  

 

Takeaways

The job of a frontline supervisor can be overwhelming.
Many supervisors lack adequate training for their roles.
Time management is crucial for supervisors to balance their responsibilities.
Supervisors often spend less than 50% of their time with their teams.
Technology is changing the landscape of contact centers, impacting supervisors' roles.
AI and automation may not replace supervisors but change their responsibilities.
Leadership should focus on personal growth and development.
Praise and coaching should be balanced in management practices.
Human customers will always need human supervisors.
Organizations must check in on their frontline supervisors regularly.

 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of contact centers, particularly focusing on Microsoft's recent rebranding efforts that redefine the term 'agent' to refer to bots rather than human representatives. They explore the implications of this shift, the role of technology in customer service, and the importance of maintaining a human connection in an increasingly automated environment. The discussion emphasizes the need for leaders in the industry to advocate for human agents while navigating the challenges posed by AI and digital transformation.

Takeaways

Microsoft's rebranding reflects a significant shift in the contact center industry.
The term 'agent' is now being associated with bots rather than human representatives.
Technology is becoming the focal point in contact centers, often at the expense of human agents.
There is a need for industry professionals to push back against the over-reliance on technology.
AI should be used to support human agents, not replace them.
The future of customer service must include a balance between technology and human interaction.
Leaders should advocate for the value of human agents in the face of automation.
Customer loyalty is built on human connections, not technology.
The conversation around AI in contact centers is evolving rapidly.
It's essential to maintain clarity in terminology to avoid confusion between human and digital agents.

Titles

The Future of Contact Centers: Humans vs. Bots
Navigating the AI Revolution in Customer Service

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Sports Banter
02:01 Microsoft's Rebranding and the Future of Contact Centers
06:05 The Role of Technology in Contact Centers
12:03 Navigating Change in Contact Center Operations
17:57 Conclusion and Call to Action
18:59 contact center show vertical outtro.mp4

 

Links:https://www.cxtoday.com/contact-center/microsoft-rebrands-its-contact-center-workspace-stops-using-the-term-agent-for-live-reps/

https://www.cxtoday.com/contact-center/microsoft-releases-three-ai-agents-for-a-more-autonomous-contact-center/

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the critical issues surrounding employee engagement and retention, particularly in contact centers. They explore the impact of leadership on employee satisfaction, the importance of proper training for supervisors, and the need for organizations to create a supportive work environment. The discussion emphasizes the necessity of understanding why employees stay or leave, and how effective leadership can foster a positive workplace culture. The conversation concludes with a call to action for organizations to prioritize leadership development and employee engagement strategies. Takeaways

• Employee engagement has regressed to pre-COVID levels.
• Understanding why employees leave is crucial for retention.
• Strong relationships with leaders can influence employee retention.
• Promoting the best employee to a leadership role can backfire.
• Leadership training is often lacking in organizations.
• A supportive work environment is essential for employee satisfaction.
• Employees need to feel a sense of purpose in their work.
• Effective communication between managers and employees is vital.
• Organizations must be realistic about job expectations.
• Investing time in leadership development is necessary for success.

TitlesReviving Employee Engagement Post-COVID Sound Bites

• "Why are people leaving?"
• "People don't leave jobs, they leave employers."
• "Let us know if you want more of this."

Chapters 00:00The State of Employee Engagement 02:59Understanding Employee Retention 06:11The Role of Leadership in Retention 08:45Training and Development for Leaders 12:06Creating a Supportive Work Environment 15:02The Importance of Purpose in Work 17:59Final Thoughts and Call to Action   https://news.gallup.com/poll/1720/work-work-place.aspx

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of customer satisfaction metrics, particularly focusing on the Net Promoter Score (NPS). They explore the origins of NPS, its initial impact on customer sentiment, and the criticisms it has faced over the years. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding customer feedback and the ethical implications of incentivizing customer responses. Ultimately, they question the relevance of NPS in today's business environment and suggest a more nuanced approach to measuring customer satisfaction.   Takeaways

• It's a people business.
• NPS became kind of a synonym for customer satisfaction.
• NPS has now been bastardized.
• We have data now that NPS does not correlate to recommendations.
• If I did what you wanted, please give me a good score.
• We've put that person into a place where they are just trying to meet the expectation.
• If it's going to be about the damn metric, fix the system.
• NPS is past its time.
• We need to wow our customers.
• We need to keep customer sentiment really, really matters.

Chapters

00:00 The Ever-Changing Landscape of Business
02:27 The Evolution and Impact of NPS
11:27 Critique of NPS: Is It Still Relevant?
18:18 The Ethics of Customer Feedback and Incentives

 

Resources:

https://itamargilad.com/net-promoter-score-part1/

https://www.netpromotersystem.com/insights/refocusing-nps-for-earned-growth-podcast/ 

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the challenges and implications of automation in customer service, particularly focusing on HP's controversial decision to implement a 15-minute wait time for customers to encourage self-service. They explore customer preferences, the impact of wait times on experience, and the importance of effective customer service strategies in business. The discussion highlights the balance between cost efficiency and customer satisfaction, culminating in a call for companies to value customer feedback and service quality.

Takeaways

Automation in customer service often leads to frustration.
HP's 15-minute wait policy aimed to push digital self-service.
Customer preferences should be prioritized in service design.
Long wait times can significantly impact customer experience.
Companies must listen to customer feedback to improve services.
Self-service options should be user-friendly and accessible.
The cost of human interaction in customer service is high.
Effective communication is key to customer satisfaction.
Businesses should focus on long-term customer relationships.
Customer service should be valued as a critical business function.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Light Banter
00:57 The Automation Dilemma in Customer Service
02:55 HP's Controversial 15-Minute Wait Policy
06:07 Customer Preferences and Self-Service Solutions
09:02 The Impact of Wait Times on Customer Experience
12:02 HP's Policy Rescinded and Customer Feedback
15:06 The Importance of Customer Service in Business
17:58 Conclusion and Call to Action

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of customer service, particularly the role of AI and human agents. They reflect on the impact of AI technologies on contact centers, emphasizing that while AI can enhance efficiency, the human element remains crucial. They reference Klana's recent shift back to valuing human interaction, highlighting consumer preferences for speaking with live agents. The discussion underscores the importance of using AI to support rather than replace human agents, ultimately advocating for a balanced approach to customer service that prioritizes both technology and human connection.

Takeaways

AI is capable of handling a significant volume of customer interactions.
The belief that AI will completely replace human agents is exaggerated.
Human agents are becoming more valuable in the age of AI.
AI should be used to enhance the capabilities of human agents.
Consumer preference still leans heavily towards human interaction for customer service.
Companies that ignore the human element risk losing customer satisfaction.
The integration of AI in customer service should focus on efficiency and support for agents.
Automation can lead to increased customer interactions, not a decrease.
The return of human agents in companies like Klana highlights the importance of personal touch.
Understanding customer needs is essential for effective service delivery. 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah, Bob Furniss and Brad Cleveland discusses the three levels of value that contact centers create: efficiency, customer satisfaction and loyalty, and strategic insights provided by AI. He emphasizes the importance of these levels in improving products, services, and processes.

Takeaways

there's three levels of value that contact centers create
Level one is efficiency
customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job
it's the strategic insight that AI can provide
it can still tell us, hey, here's a trend I'm seeing
Here's an opportunity to improve products and services
AI doesn't have to be perfect to provide value
Strategic insights can drive business improvements
Understanding trends is crucial for growth
Contact centers play a vital role in customer experience

Titles

Unlocking Value in Contact Centers
The Role of AI in Customer Service

Sound bites

"Level one is efficiency"
"customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job"
"it's the strategic insight that AI can provide"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Contact Center Show
00:27 AI and Its Impact on Customer Interactions
00:31 Future Jobs in the Contact Center Industry

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss explore the critical themes of leadership, empathy, and the evolving dynamics in contact centers, especially in the context of AI integration. They discuss the importance of creating a safe and trusting environment for employees, the need for compassion in leadership, and the distinction between finding meaning from work versus meaning at work. The conversation emphasizes that as technology advances, the human element in leadership becomes even more vital.

Takeaways

Empathy can be learned but is often defined differently by individuals.
Leaders must create a safe space for employees to express themselves.
Hope, trust, compassion, and stability are essential for effective leadership.
The relationship between agents and managers is changing with AI integration.
Employees need to feel safe to express unpopular opinions without fear of repercussions.
The shift towards a people-based business model is crucial in contact centers.
Meaning at work is derived from relationships, not just salary.
Compassion in leadership helps employees feel valued and supported.
AI should enhance human interactions, not replace them.
Leaders should regularly assess if they are providing hope and trust to their teams.

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the ongoing shift back to office work post-COVID, the challenges of hybrid work models, and the importance of thoughtful leadership in contact centers. They explore the reasons behind companies' push for employees to return to the office, the impact of remote work on productivity, and the need for effective communication and community building in the workplace.

 

 

Takeaways

There is a significant push for employees to return to the office post-COVID.
Many companies are struggling with the logistics of bringing employees back.
The culture argument for returning to the office is often unfounded.
Remote work has shown to be as productive, if not more so, than in-person work.
Contact centers have been slower to adopt remote work models compared to other industries.
Leaders need to be intentional about fostering community in the workplace.
Hybrid work models are challenging to implement effectively.
Companies should leverage the opportunity to build stronger teams when employees are in the office.
Effective communication tools are essential for maintaining productivity in contact centers.
Workforce management is crucial for understanding employee needs and optimizing operations.

 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the essential skills for success in customer service roles, emphasizing the importance of empathy, authenticity, and a positive attitude. They explore how these skills can be taught or innate, and the impact of genuine interactions on customer experiences. The discussion highlights the need for contact center leaders to trust their employees to be themselves and to foster authentic relationships with customers.

 

Takeaways

Empathy is the most crucial skill in customer service.
You cannot teach empathy; it must be inherent.
Authenticity in interactions leads to better customer experiences.
Positive attitudes can sometimes feel insincere.
Trusting employees to be themselves enhances service quality.
Customer service training should focus on genuine interactions.
Scripts can hinder authentic communication with customers.
Empathy should be felt, not just expressed in words.
Leaders should encourage authenticity in their teams.
Building relationships with customers is key to effective service.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Customer Service Skills
01:17 The Importance of Empathy in Customer Service
05:50 Understanding Authenticity in Customer Interactions
12:44 The Role of Positive Attitude in Service
17:45 Building Trust and Authentic Relationships

Takeaways

Customer service experiences can be frustrating and time-consuming.
Government intervention may be necessary to improve customer service standards.
Companies often fail to address their own customer service issues.
The experience of customers with disabilities is often overlooked.
Regulations in Europe provide clearer guidelines for customer service.
Technology alone will not solve customer service problems.
Organizations need to actively seek feedback to improve service.
Customer service representatives often have limited solutions to offer.
Internal reforms are essential for enhancing customer experience.
The government may step in if companies do not take action. 

Chapters

00:00 The State of Customer Service Today
08:52 Government Intervention in Customer Service
13:01 The Future of Customer Experience

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the challenges of employee engagement and satisfaction in the workplace, particularly in the context of returning from time off. They explore the importance of recognition, meaningful work, and the impact of relationships on employee well-being. The discussion also touches on insights from other industries and the need for a more personalized approach to understanding employee needs.

 

Takeaways

Taking time off often leads to a desire to stop working altogether.
Employee satisfaction is declining, particularly in service industries.
Meaningful work drives engagement more than financial compensation.
Recognition is a key motivator for employees.
Understanding the grind of work is essential for improving engagement.
Relationships in the workplace are crucial for employee success.
Cultural insights from other industries can inform better practices.
Time off does not necessarily recharge employees for more work.
A personalized approach is needed to understand employee needs.
Attention to employee well-being can prevent disengagement.

Chapters

00:00 New Year Greetings and Reflections
01:37 Employee Satisfaction and Engagement Post-COVID
05:21 The Importance of Meaningful Work
10:54 Recognition and Relationships in the Workplace
15:59 Learning from Other Industries

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss reflect on the year 2024 in customer service, discussing persistent challenges in contact centers, the evolution of work-from-home practices, and changing customer expectations regarding returns. They also share personal anecdotes about memorable holiday gifts and emphasize the importance of gratitude and understanding during the holiday season.

 

Takeaways

AI is still not as user-friendly as expected.
Contact centers face ongoing challenges similar to those from years ago.
The importance of people in customer service remains paramount.
Work from home practices have significantly retreated post-pandemic.
Customer expectations for frictionless returns have increased.
Companies need to adapt their customer service strategies accordingly.
Personal experiences shape our views on customer service.
Gratitude and patience are essential during the holiday season.
Not everyone celebrates Christmas, and inclusivity matters.
Memorable gifts often come with personal stories and reflections.

Chapters

00:00 Reflecting on Customer Service Trends of 2024
04:52 The Evolution of Work From Home in Contact Centers
10:13 Customer Expectations and Return Policies
14:56 Memorable Holiday Gifts and Personal Reflections
20:00 Gratitude and Acknowledgment During the Holidays

 

 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss various themes surrounding customer experience, particularly in the context of recent tragic events and the impact of societal anger on service interactions. They explore the quality of food at conferences, the implications of a recent murder related to healthcare dissatisfaction, and the need for empathy and flexibility in customer service policies. The discussion emphasizes the importance of human interaction in service environments and the challenges posed by rigid policies that often ignore individual circumstances.

 

Chapters

00:00 Conference Experiences and Food Quality
02:05 Tragic Events in Healthcare Leadership
06:48 Customer Service Challenges and Societal Anger
09:17 Policies vs. Empathy in Customer Service
16:36 The Human Element in Customer Interactions
17:15 contact center show vertical outtro.mp4

Summary

In this episode, Amas and Bob discuss the complexities of hybrid work, particularly in the context of contact centers. They explore the evolution of remote work, the challenges of engaging employees in a hybrid environment, and the strategies leaders can implement to ensure success. The conversation highlights the importance of digital communication, effective training, and the need for organizations to adapt to the changing expectations of the workforce, especially among younger generations.

Takeaways

Hybrid work presents unique challenges for leaders.
Effective communication is crucial in a hybrid environment.
Training and coaching must adapt to hybrid models.
Employee engagement strategies need to be rethought for hybrid teams.
Digital-first approaches can enhance remote work experiences.
Management by walking around is still important, even remotely.
Organizations must be ready to support hybrid work effectively.
The future of work is influenced by generational expectations.
Contact centers are lagging behind in remote work adoption.
Success in hybrid work requires careful planning and execution.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Hybrid Work Challenges
02:56 The Evolution of Remote Work
05:56 Navigating Hybrid Engagement
12:03 Key Strategies for Hybrid Success
16:05 Future of Work and Generational Expectations

 

**Key Highlights:**

1. **Introduction:**
   - Bob enjoys the banter with Amas about customer service challenges.

2. **Sister's Experience:**
   - Amas shares a story from his sister about difficulties in returning items, highlighting widespread customer service frustrations.
   - Discussion shifts to training as a core issue in service quality.

3. **The Training Debate:**
   - Bob emphasizes that training isn't just a simple problem; it encompasses various methods (classroom, online, interactive).
   - The importance of hiring effective trainers with strong facilitation skills is noted.

4. **Expectations vs. Reality:**
   - Unrealistic expectations on agents' knowledge vs. what's feasible in training are discussed.
   - Example from Bob's experience with product training illustrates gaps in knowledge expectations.

5. **Realistic Training Goals:**
   - Focus should shift from rote memorization to understanding concepts and finding information.
   - The need for open-book assessments and emphasis on problem-solving skills.

6. **Importance of Context:**
   - Understanding the "why" behind questions is crucial for effective customer interaction.
   - Agents should connect with customers rather than just provide scripted answers.

7. **AI's Role:**
   - AI can aid in information retrieval but cannot replace the need for agents to engage with customers on a deeper level.

8. **Living Training:**
   - The best training comes from real-life experiences, not just theoretical knowledge.
   - Importance of "nesting" (support after training) for new agents to apply what they've learned.

9. **Closing Thoughts:**
   - Bob quotes Ben Franklin: "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
   - Both hosts encourage listeners to consider how to improve training practices.

10. **Live Podcast Announcement:**
    - Bob and Amas will be at the ICMI show in Orlando from October 21-25.
    - Listeners are invited to join, engage, and share their thoughts during live recordings.

---

 

**Podcast Summary: Tackling Contact Center Attrition**

In this episode, Amas and Bob dive into the persistent challenge of attrition in contact centers. They reminisce about Amas's experience running a center in the mid-2000s, where the attrition rate hovered around 7-9%. Surprisingly, even after 15 years, the current rate remains about the same. They explore whether this issue is truly fixable and discuss the implications of attrition rates comparable to those in retail environments.

Bob emphasizes the importance of analyzing data beyond just averages to identify specific areas of concern. He points out that while some centers perform well, many still struggle with high turnover. They agree that rather than relying on superficial employee engagement tactics like pizza parties, contact centers should focus on improving the job itself and fostering trust between employees and supervisors.

Amas shares a personal anecdote about an employee who preferred working at McDonald's due to lower stress levels, prompting a conversation about the real factors affecting job satisfaction. The duo highlights the need for contact center leaders to rethink their approach to employee experience, advocating for genuine relationships and understanding the needs of their teams.

Bob suggests actionable steps for supervisors to build trust, including knowing employees' names, recognizing their strengths and areas for improvement, and understanding their personal passions. They conclude by stressing that relationships are key to employee retention and satisfaction.

Tune in to hear insights on creating a positive work environment in contact centers, and learn how to shift the focus from temporary perks to meaningful change.

Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements

The Power of Language:

• Transform "I can't" into "How can we"
• Shift from "I have to" to "We get to"
• Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements)
• Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception

Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations

The Alignment Problem:

• CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments
• Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team
• Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later"

The Pilot Program Strategy:

• Start small before asking for big budgets
• Show proof of concept with intentional, measurable pilots
• Use success to rally and align different areas of the company

Real Example - CX Day Success:

• Introduced first-ever CX Day celebration at 145-year-old engineering company
• Started small despite skepticism
• Now an annual tradition that continues after her departure

Rethinking CX Metrics

Beyond Traditional Measurements:

• NPS and effort scores are starting points, not endpoints
• "Satisfaction" is no longer good enough (it's the equivalent of "fine")
• New focus: Emotional altitude across every touchpoint

The Emotional Impact:

• Brains constantly cycle between thinking and feeling
• Emotions create lasting imprints that shape brand perception
• Research shows: 12 positive experiences needed to overcome 1 negative
• Measure emotional highs to identify gaps and successes

The Four Rs of CX Impact:

• Revenue
• Retention
• Reputation
• Referrals

The Future of Contact Centers

Human + AI Integration:

• Smart companies intentionally map where humans add value vs. where AI should handle interactions
• The answer is "both/and" not "either/or"
• Critical: Validate designs with real customers, not just internal teams

The Contact Center Superpower:

• Contact center teams speak to more customers in a week than other departments do in a year
• This proximity to customers gives agents unique power to be organizational change agents
• Voice of customer insights should inform product development, marketing messaging, and more

Words Matter in the AI Era:

• Example: Website offering "24/7 support, our guides are happy to help you"
• "Guides" for both humans and AI feels impersonal
• Naming and framing still matters

The Power of Customer Voice

The 10-Minute Video Story: A contact center leader captured customer feedback about a failed new product. At an executive meeting, he played a 10-minute compilation of customer complaints.

• The CEO's initial advisor said it was a career-ending mistake
• The CEO walked out during the video
• Result: CEO returned and said it was "the best 10 minutes anybody's ever played" and named him employee #1
• Customer voice changed the company's trajectory

The Validation Imperative:

• Internal perspective isn't enough
• Customer validation must be iterative, not one-time
• Can't use internal team as proxy for outside voice
• Both internal knowledge AND customer validation matter

The Fundamental C-Suite Challenge

When C-suite leaders aren't aligned in their meetings, misalignment trickles down through the entire organization. This is the root problem preventing effective CX implementation.

Notable Stories

The Morgan & Morgan Tattoo Story: Leadership promised to get company logo tattoos if the team hit an unprecedented conversion rate goal. When they achieved it, 40 leaders got matching tattoos - four tattoo artists came in for the day. The question became: "Is your brand tattoo-worthy?"

Stacey's Podcast Origin: Bought her first microphone for under $50, then waited six months before taking it out of the box due to fear. That mic ignited her journey to intentionally sharing her voice through podcasting.

Living Podcasting: At the conference, Stacey pulled out her mic to record a 10-minute session where Amas (who has Parkinson's) gave direct advice to her relative with a similar condition - creating immediate, personal value rather than secondhand communication.

Takeaways for Contact Center Leaders

1. Language shapes reality - Small word changes create emotional shifts in customer experience
2. Demand metric alignment - CX can't succeed unless executives share the same measurements
3. Start with pilots - Prove value small-scale before requesting major investment
4. Leverage your proximity to customers - Use it to become the organizational glue and change agent
5. Validate everything with real customers - Internal assumptions aren't enough
6. Map the human-AI journey intentionally - Design where each adds value, then test with customers
7. Bring customer voice to leadership - Sometimes the most powerful thing is making them listen directly
8. Average isn't acceptable - Move beyond satisfaction to creating emotional highs

In this episode, Amas and Bob dive into the ongoing struggle with knowledge management in contact centers—a problem that's been around since the Clinton administration. Despite years of technological advancements, knowledge management remains a significant challenge, with many customer service representatives still struggling to find the right information quickly.

Bob shares his optimism about the potential of generative AI to revolutionize knowledge management by aggregating and analyzing data from various sources. However, both Amas and Bob acknowledge that while AI could improve information retrieval, the real challenge lies in the human and process side of things. The discussion explores the conflict between relying on AI to provide information and trusting human agents to apply judgment in delivering that information to customers.

They emphasize that AI should be used to augment knowledge workers, not replace them, particularly in the tedious task of keeping content up-to-date. The episode wraps up with the idea that AI could help reduce the noise in the information agents must sift through, making their jobs easier and more effective.

Listeners are encouraged to understand AI's capabilities and integrate it into their contact center operations, focusing on how it can help manage and improve knowledge over time.

***Episode Highlights:**

1. **In-Person Events vs. Online Meetings:**
   - Amas and Bob discuss the value of attending in-person events in an era dominated by virtual meetings. They argue that face-to-face interactions foster deeper connections, networking, and learning opportunities that virtual settings can't fully replicate. 

2. **The Importance of Networking:**
   - Bob emphasizes the benefits of meeting new people at events, sharing experiences, and learning from peers. He suggests that these interactions can offer fresh perspectives and solutions to common challenges in the industry.

3. **The Power of Human Connection:**
   - Amas reflects on how he met Bob at an ICMI event in 2007 and how their professional relationship blossomed into a strong friendship. This wouldn't have been possible without attending an in-person event.

4. **Exciting Announcement - Live Podcast at ICMI Expo:**
   - Amas and Bob are taking their podcast live to the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando, October 22-24. They will host four live shows from the expo floor, providing an opportunity for attendees to interact with them, ask questions, and participate in discussions.

5. **Engagement Opportunities at the Expo:**
   - Attendees can meet Amas and Bob, engage in debates, and share their thoughts on various topics discussed on the podcast. There will be opportunities to challenge the hosts and hear from special guests, including vendors and speakers.

6. **What to Expect from a Live Podcast:**
   - Bob explains that a live podcast involves real-time interaction with an audience, creating a dynamic environment that differs from their usual recording setup. They will host conversations, engage with attendees, and bring a lively atmosphere to the expo floor.

7. **Join Us in Orlando:**
   - Amas and Bob invite listeners to join them at the ICMI Expo in Orlando. They offer a discount for registration and encourage attendees to subscribe to the podcast for more updates and fun discussions.

**Call to Action:**
- Subscribe and listen to full episodes of "The Contact Center Show" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join Amas and Bob live at the ICMI Expo in Orlando for engaging discussions and networking opportunities. 

**Note:** For those interested in attending, visit the expo floor booth located at the back left side to meet the hosts and participate in the live shows!

In this episode of the Contact Center Show, co-hosts Bob Furness and Amas reconnect to discuss the evolving landscape of contact centers, focusing on the challenges faced by agents in today's complex work environment. They delve into the increasing isolation that many agents experience, particularly with the rise of remote and hybrid work models. Amas and Bob emphasize that while technology plays a significant role in the industry, it cannot replace the critical need for human connection and empathy in the workplace.

The conversation highlights the importance of maintaining strong relationships between managers and their teams. Bob points out that many contact center employees feel disconnected from their supervisors, which can lead to feelings of loneliness and disengagement. He stresses the need for managers to be proactive in fostering these connections, whether through regular in-person interactions or creative use of digital tools like Teams.

Amas adds that despite the convenience of digital channels, voice interactions remain crucial for building customer loyalty. The hosts argue that contact center leaders must prioritize the agent experience, ensuring that employees feel supported and valued, especially when dealing with challenging customer interactions. They also touch on the broader implications of workplace relationships, citing studies that show employees are more engaged and satisfied when they have meaningful connections at work.

The episode concludes with a call to action for leaders to rethink their approach to management in the contact center, prioritizing the human element in an increasingly digital world.

Welcome back to the Contact Center Show! Amas and Bob kick off a new season with a dynamic conversation about the state of contact centers and the experiences of contact center agents. 

**Amas:** "Bob, it's so good to see you again. How have you been?"
**Bob:** "I'm doing well, Amas. It's great to be back in front of the mic."

The duo dives into the evolving landscape of contact centers since their last discussion in 2023, particularly focusing on the impact of AI technologies like ChatGPT on agents' experiences. Amas shares his observation that while technological advancements have been significant, the core issues agents face, such as job complexity and attrition, persist.

**Bob:** "High attrition and job dissatisfaction remain problems. AI has made some jobs easier, but for many agents, the work has become more complex."

They discuss the disparity between large organizations that have successfully integrated AI to improve agent workflows and smaller companies that are still catching up. Bob emphasizes the importance of addressing the agent experience directly rather than solely focusing on customer-facing technologies.

**Amas:** "We need to shift our focus back to improving the agents' work environment and overall experience."

The conversation concludes with practical advice for contact center leaders: engage with your employees, understand their daily challenges, and explore how AI can support rather than replace their roles.

**Bob:** "Talk to your employees. Understand their pain points and think about how technology can truly help them."

**Amas:** "Take care of your people, and they'll take care of your customers."

Tune in to this insightful episode for more on enhancing the contact center agent experience, the role of AI, and practical tips for leaders in the industry. Don't forget to subscribe and share the show with your friends. Until next time!

Podcast Summary: The Future of Contact Centers with Amas and Bob

Hosts: Amas and Bob

Topic: The evolving landscape of contact centers and the impact of AI technology.

Key Points:

1. Introduction:

   • Amas and Bob reunite to discuss the future of contact centers, emphasizing their long-standing involvement and passion for the industry.

2. Industry Predictions:

   • Amas shares a pessimistic view from a major IT consulting CEO predicting the demise of call centers due to advancements in AI and technology.
   • Bob counters with optimism, likening the prediction to the exaggerated reports of Mark Twain's death, asserting that contact centers will not disappear but evolve.

3. Technological Evolution:

   • Bob and Amas reminisce about past technological advancements (IVR, the internet, social media) that were supposed to reduce the need for human agents but ultimately did not eliminate the necessity for human interaction.
   • Amas highlights the continued growth in phone calls despite these technological changes.

4. Impact of AI:

   • Bob acknowledges AI's potential to transform the contact center experience for both agents and customers but believes human agents remain essential due to the complexity of certain problems.
   • Amas emphasizes that AI should be viewed as a tool to enhance customer service rather than a replacement for human agents.

5. Future Outlook:

   • Both hosts agree that while AI will change the contact center landscape, it won't make it obsolete. They predict AI will help improve efficiency and customer service but stress the importance of human involvement.
   • They advise contact center agents to stay informed and educated about AI advancements to remain valuable in their roles.

6. Advice to Listeners:

   • Amas urges listeners to focus on how AI can improve customer experiences rather than solely seeking cost-cutting measures.
   • Bob encourages agents to embrace learning opportunities about AI to better adapt to the upcoming changes.

7. Closing Thoughts:

   • Amas and Bob conclude with a call for humility and caution against overconfidence in predicting the future of technology.
   • They sign off with philosophical wisdom, quoting Socrates on the importance of focusing on building the new rather than fighting the old.

Conclusion: The podcast wraps up with a reminder for listeners to subscribe and share, promising more insightful discussions on the future of contact centers.

Bob, it has been a while since we have talked to the contact center show audience, and there are some rumors that I want to put to bed. Bob, the word on the street is we got rich and famous and we stopped putting out new show. I've gotten some responses from our fans. Can you put these rumors to bed? What actually happened here?

Bob

Well, as you can see, I'm calling you from my yacht. So the rumors are not true. I don't think anyone who uses the word customer service anywhere in their title has gotten rich from being in customer service. I remember the times I used to work with my budgets and nobody got rich there. Maybe some famous authors got rich writing books about customer service. I don't know why both of us are not in that category, but I do say we had a lot of fun doing that podcast we did. And we want you to follow us to the next podcast we're doing.

Amas

Yes.

Bob

So let's talk a little bit about that.

Amas

Let's talk about that. And we're going to talk about the new show, the customer happiness show. But before we do that, I went back and I looked, and over the course of those years, we put out over 70 episodes. I don't know many people, and they average about 45 minutes each. I don't know many people who can talk for 3 hours about most topics. Why do you love contact centers and customer service? Why have you stayed in it most of your career? What's in it for you?

Bob

Well, first of all, if we put out 70 episodes, then I probably have run out of things to say at this point. So maybe that's the reason why we stopped talking about contact.

Amas

Good point.

Bob

What do I love about customer service? I love that customer service is almost always a human experience. And yes, I know that digital is going to take over the world and call centers are going to go away. And all the pontificating about how much we're not going to have a call center, I don't think those are right. And I love that human interactions are almost always part of the equation. And it's in those times that we walk away from a company more loyal, saying, that was a good experience. That is why I like customer service. What about you? What's your draw to customer service?

Amas

I think, Bob, it's a profession that has allowed me to utilize many parts of my brain and my know, there's a little behavioral economics there, right? How do you get people to do things, whether employees, customers, how do you get them to behave? There's a lot of technologies, technology, and a lot of things. And then there is what we used to call soft skills. And one of our few guests we had on the show taught us there was tough skills. That's a great episode. You guys go check that out. And by tough skills, people used to think about them as just pleases and thank you. There's a little art about how you deliver information, how you listen, how you do that. So you have to learn about those things as well. Then there's data involved, right? You got to measure everything because you're trying to do things efficiently and effectively. And as you know, I tried to go do something else for a little while last year, and I came right back and I'll probably spend the rest of my career doing this, and I can't imagine doing anything else. And so we've stopped putting out. I mean, we'll come occasionally and put out some shows here. The show is still going to be up, guys. You can get it. But we have made this pivot. And I got to tell you the story about how this came of. The name of the show, by the way, is the customer happiness show, but the name of the show, the format of the show, all of this came. I took a trip to Bob lives in Memphis and I live in Oklahoma City, and we go and see each other as often as time, and all of that permits. So I go there. We had a few beers in Memphis. We took that really long walk. I don't know how many miles that thing was. I wanted to see the little river thing. I don't know what you call that body of water, but we took that walk around it and we agonized about what this format will be. All we were sure about is we know that we've put out tons of contents to help contact center people around the world till this date. I still get emails that I don't forward to, Bob. They don't come in as often anymore because there are no new episodes. And every time someone mentions the show, it gives me lots of joy that we put that out. But we wanted to pivot to go talk to consumers, the Joe blow consumers out, Bob, and you can share more about. It's been months since we were having that conversation. Why are you excited about this format and specifically talking about consumers? What really excites you about it? Well, I think the very first time.

Bob

You and I were on a podcast together, if I'm not mistaken, was sometime in late 2019, where I joined yours, and we started talking in the same vein along. What do we get? Could we do a podcast together and our main number one goal was to have fun doing it. And I think we've met that number one goal. I hope we meet that number one goal with this one. But I'm excited because like you said, we talked a lot about sales and contact centers and walk up service and just about every kind of service. And it's always been the knowledge from the inside out. It's always been helping people on the inside do it better. So I'm excited to take all of those years of knowledge of what happens on the inside and turn it around. We did a show recently over on the new podcast about customer service at SiriusXM. And so what we're able to do is we understand service in general. So we're able to take the inside view and share it with the consumer and say, here are ways that you can be a better consumer to get better service. That's what excites me. It's from the outside.

Amas

I think. I think for me, Bob, similar to what you're saying, I feel like because we were so focused on the inside, the professionals, we were always helping the consumer. We were trying to teach people who delivered your service, contact center leaders, et cetera, to deliver your good service. Now we get to kind of be in the middle. We're going to focus on the consumer, bring all of our inside information in and teach consumers how to do that. I remember I'm a foodie, as you know, and Bob is as well. We both love food. And the book that changed the way I order out is Anthony Bourdain's kitchen confidential. And that's what I hope this is in know. He taught me that don't order the special, don't order the like because he was a chef and he knew all of that inside deal. And he didn't write the book for chefs, he wrote it for people who go out to eat. Until this date, when I walk into a restaurant, the things I learned from him still kind of echoes in my brain. And I hope this show becomes that. But the second reason I'm really excited is the format that we haven't told you guys about is we debated a little bit on the contact center show, but this show is all it is, all of us, not every single show, but for the most part, we are going back and forth. And I don't think it will surprise anyone who's listened to Bob and I over these four years that I win almost every time. So that part also excites me. I don't know if it excites Bob so much. Losing to me every week. But that part really gives me a lot of joy.

Bob

You definitely win every time you're talking because you say the most absurd things that I've ever heard, much like the.

Amas

One you just said.

Bob

But that is part of the reason for me also. I enjoy the back and forth.

Amas

So we are on the show and I suspect, and guys, you got to check out the show. I don't think the show is us. While it's called customer happiness, we are not on the show talking about how great customer service is. We are often on the show talking about some of the things and helping consumers navigate it better. So let me ask you, let me put you on the spot. What is your biggest pet peeve? You are a consumer. All of us are consumers. What's your biggest pet peeve? Put your customer hat on.

Bob

Well, mine is always when I'm told this is the policy and that's the only thing we can do. I hate hearing the word policy. I think that we probably make those agents that way because we do have a policy and we do tell them they can't negotiate. But that's my pet peeve because there should always be negotiation. In fact, I'll tell you an experience. I recently was at a well known shoe store and the employee came back and said, I'm sorry, but that's the policy. So I said, well, the policy doesn't make any sense. And he said something to the degree of, if I had a dollar for every time a corporate policy didn't make sense in my job, I'd be a millionaire. And so here's a guy that would really like to help me. Agrees with me that the policy is crazy. But he's quoting me the policy. So the policy for me is the one. I don't know what yours is. What's yours?

Amas

Mine is maybe dishonesty is too strong of a word. I don't like the fact that I go somewhere, they ask me for my email address to send me a receipt, and then here comes all these emails. I don't like the we will be with you shortly. Your call is important to us. They will call me and they won't call me back. It's these broken promises for me that makes customer service a pain at times. And so I actually prefer just tell me what I'm getting so that way I know what this is going to look like. So, guys, again, I would be remiss if I didn't say thank you to every single person over the years who downloaded the show, who subscribed who liked, who told people about it, who shared it, I cannot know. Two guys, one in Oklahoma City, one in Memphis. Two friends got on the phone and talked. And at the peak of our show, 4000 of you would download the show. I am incredibly just humbled and thankful and just hope we get a little bit of that success onto the next show. So we're asking you to stick with us. Come with us to the next show. You're going to learn something. You're going to hear us even hopefully funnier and more entertaining. And Bob, by the way, is semi retired now, which means God knows what's going to come out of his mouth. So please come join us.

Bob

Yeah, I'm on my own now. I can say what I really want to say instead of what I need to be careful how I say it. But you can join us on the same channels you're used to. So we're on Spotify, we're on Alexa, we're on Apple, we're on all the places that you get your podcast. We're still distributing to the same places. You can do a search on the customer happiness show. We're the only one out there with that name. So you can search on that. We'll put the link in, put the name at the end of this video. But as Amas said, thank you so much for your listening to us. I had somebody tell me that was a new research analyst that just began to work in the contact center space in a financial capacity as a research analyst. Tell me that she felt like she got more information from our podcast. And I said, well, how many did you listen to? She goes, I'm too embarrassed to tell you how many of them I listened to. But she said that she got a lot out of it and it felt like she understood both sides of the contact center world by listening. So it's just those kind of comments and the emails that you send that have made us keep doing it. We just hope you'll join us in the new one.

Amas

Awesome. Well, please subscribe. Like comment. The show is still going to be available, we're going to keep it going, and every now and then we'll pop in and maybe produce some new content. But please subscribe the customer happiness show wherever you get your podcast. Thank you all. Bye.

 

Amas and Bob take a look back a their third season of the Contact Center show. 

 

"I plan to spend the offseason doing nonprofit, keisha Warrior Princess, we aims to educate women on the importance of self exams and of gynological appointments annually."- Bob

I'm increasingly getting feedback from people who are not deep into the contact center, but are contact center adjacent. Whether they be like, people who work in other departments, consumers, what have you. If you're out there again, we want to hear from you. - Amas

"Speech analytics is going to become more important in the contact center. "CCaaS and UcaaS are going to get blended into one." - Bob

- In the next 12 months, are we like to see GPT mainstream in the contact center? I don't think we can move fast enough as an industry to make GPT commonplace. But for it to be part of our mainstream way that we do business, I just don't Think it's been there long enough. - Bob

I will be spending a lot of time on conference calls, but also reading and getting smarter so we can come back and chat with you again. - Amas

 

 

"We'll talk about stuff and then invariably we get off on some tangent about this organization and this industry that we work in and we could hit the record button and publish it, right? Exactly. It's part of our DNA." - Bob

"We're in the midst of a sea change in Contact Center." - Amas

Bob and Amas discuss how you should prepare for CCaas:

 

Three out of four contact centers today have not yet made the move. Every vendor is telling companies to make this move. The improvements are happening in their new cloud system. We're getting close to the point where this would be a baseline requirement.

CCaaS allows agents to use all of their channels in one interface. It adds some user capabilities for the agent. That makes their life a little bit easier. Is this something that's going to change my life at all?

- CCaaS projects thus far has been a little case of over promise under deliver. Lots of people have gone down this road, have said, Gosh, I like the new system, but they don't consider it a success in terms of ROI.

-: The vendors are saying that the ROI is better than it could possibly be. He says a 20% reduction in handle time is just not realistic.

 Your ROI has to get a lot more creative and more thoughtful than that. It's about improving the agent experience and the customer experience.

 

"Data Center. That there is a refrigerator size box or there is a stack of servers. I probably just dated myself with the refrigerator size box."  Bob 

 

"I'm gonna go to an old reliable Seneca today.  This quote is we are more often frightened than hurt and we suffer more in imagination than in reality." - Amas

Amas and Bob tell you how to separate the hype from reality with GPT:

 

- AI will eliminate 75% of call center jobs. AI will even make your bed. These are some of the real headlines about what generative AI things like Chat GPT will do to the contact center.

- I think the next knowledge will be the impact. It's going to affect the way that we write knowledge articles. Marketing is an example of how knowledge is going to be second in the contact center. And then the last step is talking to the agent where generative AI actually talks to the customer.

-  Generative AI is still on the way up in the Gartner Hype cycle. That means that the peak of inflated expectations are not over yet. Greene: It'll make the biggest impact on the agent, not the customer. Companies should be paying attention to it.

- You sound like you have a bias for disrupting and helping the agent as opposed to replacing the agent by putting this thing in front of the customers. Is this one of those kind of, hey, start here because it's safer? I still believe we have a place for an agent.

- What I want to do is help my agent versus replace my agent. Typical contact center probably has four to 500 knowledge articles. Think about having Chat GPT rewrite those articles through the lens of the customer. There's tons of improvement to the experience if you start there.

- Google CEO Sandar Pachaya said Artificial intelligence is one of the most profound things we're working on as humanity. That silence after that is what tells me we've got to understand what this impact is. I hope we helped you guys get smarter this week.

"It you know the demise of the contact center has been going on since since the IVR so. The reality is, is that contact the percentage of contact center jobs in companies have gone up compared to where they were before those technologies came into play." - Bob

" I want to point out to people who you heard me say that the most popular car in the 1890s was an electric car." - Amas

 

Bob and Amas discuss the world of knowledge.

"I'm going to date myself that we had knowledge on paper in binders at every desk." - Bob

"In fact, I believe that if used correctly, knowledge or technical product content in this case is and should be seen as marketing." - Mike

"So we have this issue. There are 1400 page PDFs running out there. How would you think about the problem and and how? How have you advised people to begin to think about solving it?" -Amas

 

Connect with Mike Stock at https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikestockactual/

Episode Summary

Broadcasting live from the ICMI conference in Orlando, Amas and Bob discuss the evolving role of AI in contact centers, the ongoing struggle for strategic recognition, and welcome special guest Bianca, who shares her unique perspective on running HR as a contact center at Michigan State University.

 

 

Amas and Bob discuss the role of the CFO in the Contact Center:

"Yeah, there is a the metric but there reason your are measuring FCR, repeat call rates, average call rate, they should lead somewhere." -Amas 

"I gotta be ready to tell the story of the history, the real-time and the future." -Bob

 

Amas and Bob discuss the outbound call center:

"This is giving me flashbacks of my teenage years when I was doing telemarketing." - Amas 

 

"Time is money!

Interactions to Sales matter - from a cost perspective." -Bob

"Well first of all it's a tough job, in that job I was talking about I called 60 people maybe 20 talked to me, that's a lot of negativity." - Bob

Bob interviews Amas about his latest book "Waiting for Service"

"If our industry could get the waiting part right before worrying about the quality of service..." Amas 

"So if you are listening to our podcast, he is not talking about you, he is talking about the other contact center professionals." - Bob 

Amas and Bob welcome Caryn Fried and Glen Stoffel to the Contact Center Show to discuss the reality of soft skills.

Quotes

"People drive the success of contact centers. I had someone say to me this week - I think people are going away in contact centers. ChatGPT and the future of voice bots and digital bots will replace the human. But I disagree. Technology will never replace the humans in contact centers." "Professional Teams practice. If it looks effortless It didn't come easy, the effortless is earned" "These skills are not soft skills, they are tough skills" Interactions are harder because we have scraped off most of the transactional contacts and sent them to an IVR, to self service, to chatbots… so what is left takes human intelligence - takes the ability to listen and think through solutions.

About our guests Glen Stoffel is a master Strategist and Co Founder of Camp 4 connect with Glen at https://www.linkedin.com/in/glen-stoffel/ Caryn Fried is a leadership development savant and CEO of Camp4, connect with Caryn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/caryn-fried/ https://camp4network.com/

Do you use social media to address your complaints or concerns with companies?  What are the pros and cons of social service? Does anyone do it well? It is quite overwhelming to monitor the entire internet so where do you start?

 

"how would you feel if every decision you make privately on a contact center ends up on the front page of a newspaper or on facebook?"

"If it is written information, it is public:" - Amas

"Customers will figure it out...social is better" - Bob 

 

And much more 

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/ 

Bob and Amas continue the conversation about Social Service:

"You know that quote from 10-15 years ago 'if you do something good your customer will tell 3 people and if you do something bad they will tell 10' now customers are like 'let me tell my 100 followers, 500 followers...." - Bob

 

And much more 

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/ 

You dial a 1800# and it tells you someone will hold your place in line and call you back when it is your turn? Is someone actually holding your place in line?

Key Quotes:

"It allows you to not have to listen to Michael Bolton sing "when a man loves a woman for the thirteenth time." Or even worse, here the "your call is important to us" for the 25th time!"

"Yes it is lipstick on a pig- but I am not sure you want your pig to walk around all the time with lipstick on - instead, only use the lipstick for special occasions." - Bob 

Amas and Bob take a deep dive into the success of ChatGPT.

• Chatbots are not new, why is this one capturing hearts and mind?
• What the heck is a chatbot anyway?
• Why do most customers hate chatbots and will it change?
• Will it replace humans in the contact center?
• How do I start building a bot customers will want?

And much more 

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/ 

The contact center may be the biggest melting pot in corporate America.

• Bob & Amas have 60+ years in the industry
• What does the contact center get  right?
• Most incredible stories about contact centers
•  

Memorable Quote:

"Did you lose your daughter? Are you a NARC?" - Bob

 

And much more 

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/ 

 

Join Amas and Bob as they discuss eliminating phone calls from contact centers:

Before you join the movement to eliminate phone calls from your contact center you should listen to this.

 

Select quotes.

• "I think they are trying to kill the phone call because they're expensive...."
• "Is frontier airline the model for customer service?"
• "At the end of the day, if I think of the best phone call I have ever had with a customer service agent, I still wish had never happened...."

And much more

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/ 

Host: Bob Furniss (without co-host Amos)
Guest: Daniel Thomas, Informa
Location: ICMI Conference Expo Floor

Guest Background

• Daniel Thomas approaches contact center industry from a research background
• Surveys audiences and writes research reports
• Has "front row seat" to industry transformation
• Conducts the annual State of the Contact Center survey

About the State of the Contact Center Report

• Comprehensive benchmark study surveying contact center professionals
• Covers multiple verticals including:
  • Training and skills
  • Compensation and salary
  • Technology use
  • Leadership perceptions
  • Strategy
• Tracks year-over-year progress
• Recent additions include AI and workforce training questions

Key Surprising Findings 1. Contact Centers as Strategic Intelligence Hubs

• Major shift: Contact centers increasingly viewed as "strategic customer intelligence hubs" rather than cost centers
• Described as "customer intelligence and nervous system"
• No other department has closer customer proximity or more customer data
• C-suite now acknowledges value with direct data funnels informing executive decisions

2. AI Perceptions and Impact

• 72% believe AI will transform roles, not replace them
• Only ~25% think AI will lead to workforce reductions
• AI expected to handle "level one, rote, monotonous, repetitive work"
• Agents will focus on:
  • Complex needs and edge cases
  • Soft skills: empathy, communication, problem solving, critical thinking
• 90% of surveyed leaders believe humans necessary as AI overseers
• Gartner prediction: 40% of agentic AI projects will fail by 2027 (often due to neglecting human oversight)

Agent Evolution

• Agents increasingly viewed as:
  • Consultants
  • Solutions architects
  • Higher-tier problem solvers
  • "White glove service" providers
• Rising expectations due to AI support
• Agents becoming intelligence providers to C-suite
• More analytical roles: identifying trends, patterns, creating intelligent summaries

Top AI Implementation Concerns

1. Customer resistance (top concern)
2. Data accuracy
3. Data privacy and security
4. Lack of proper AI governance

Workforce and Quality Management Insights Workforce Models (Nearly Equal Three-Way Split)

• In-office full time
• Hybrid
• Fully remote
• Models remain transitional and subject to change
• Increased scheduling flexibility critical for retention

Quality Focus Shift

• Traditional metrics: CSAT, utilization, average handle time
• New priority: Agent experience rising in importance
• Recognition that internal customer experience drives external customer experience

Customer Satisfaction Challenges

• Current CSAT surveys often lack nuance
• Can't distinguish between:
  • Poor agent performance vs. poor company policy
  • Single bad experience vs. overall satisfaction
• Need for more qualitative feedback mechanisms
• "Watermelon effect": High metrics but poor actual experience

Channel Evolution

• Significant jump from multi-channel to omni-channel implementation
• Growth in non-traditional channels:
  • Social media
  • SMS/text
  • Video
• Technology enabling unified customer history across channels

Key Takeaways

• Successful organizations treat contact centers as "valuable strategic sources of intelligence"
• Organizations not recognizing this value are "dropping the ball" and will "see the consequences"
• Contact centers serve as the "hub" and "nervous system" reaching everywhere in the organization
• When no one knows the answer, they turn to the contact center

Notable Quotes

• "If your agents aren't excited about AI, then you actually haven't communicated to them how enriching and transforming it could be"
• "Agents are increasingly going to play a role where they are the eyes and the ears... providing the intelligence back to the C-suite"
• Contact centers as "the strongest data... the hub... the nervous system that reaches in everywhere else"

Join Bob and Amas as they dive deep in how to deal with escalations:

• "I have always been intersted in the origin of the statement "the customer is always right", they must not work in service..."
• "In some ways I think the organization is creating escalations..."
• "I would love to be a supervisor in a call center and not be able to tell a lie....."

And much more

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/"

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/ 

Join Amas and Bob as they discuss the dreaded message we all hear when calling for service.

What is done with my recording and transcripts at most contact centers?

Who owns the data?

Three things to change about the recording and quality assurance process.

Some quotes...

• "I don't think it's BS they are recorded but they're not listening to a lot of it..."
• "Here is what your agent hears after you tell them they scored 84...."
• "At the end of the day, the job you signed up for is an interaction between two people and how they FEEL about it..."

And so much more

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/ 

 

People blame most bad interactions on poor training.Is this true?

• The training blame game 
• Who is the real culprit when service goes bad
• What is training actually good for
• Is empathy a skill or an emotion?

And much more...

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/ 

 

Ever had 100,000 people waiting in line and angry? You know it is your fault? Have you ever made all your coworkers mad? Today Bob Furniss and I discuss Workforce Management.

• Why WFM deserves more empathy
• Why WFM is a lot of art and a lot science
• Wat makes WFM such a complex job 

And much more ...

Contact Amas and Bob.

http://linkedin.com/in/amastenumah/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfurniss/