Explore every episode of the podcast Contact Center Show

AI was supposed to replace contact center workers. Instead, there are more people working in contact centers today than there were at the beginning of the year.

That does not mean AI failed. In many areas, it has exceeded expectations.

In this season finale, Amas and Bob examine what they got right, what changed their minds, and what contact center leaders should expect next. They discuss why AI is changing frontline work rather than eliminating it, how automation is exposing leadership failures, and why the agents who remain will handle increasingly difficult work.

They also explore where AI is already delivering—particularly in quality assurance, knowledge management, and customer self-service—and why even impressive bots still fail when companies deny them the information or authority required to solve real problems.

The next phase will not be about acquiring more technology. It will be about managing what companies have already bought, determining where humans still matter, and separating genuine guidance from vendors selling both the product and the consulting required to make it work.

Plus, Amas and Bob revisit their position on customer surveys, predict the issues that will dominate the rest of the year, and reflect on The Contact Center Show’s rise to number 22 among Apple’s management podcasts.

In this episode:

• Why AI has changed contact center jobs without eliminating them

• What Bob learned from two very different AI service experiences

• Why better automation creates harder work for human agents

• How weak bots expose leadership, data, and authority problems

• Where AI has exceeded expectations

• Why customer surveys may still have value when used to develop agents

• The growing importance of AI management and governance

• Why technology companies are becoming consulting companies

• The danger of buying more features than an organization can use

• What The Contact Center Show should tackle next season

The Contact Center Show will return at the end of September. Until then, explore the archive and send Amas or Bob your feedback on LinkedIn.

In this episode, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss explore the evolving landscape of customer service, tiered service models, and the role of technology in delivering personalized experiences. They discuss how companies can strategically implement paid and differentiated service levels to enhance customer satisfaction and operational efficiency.

takeaways

Companies should consider tiered service models to meet diverse customer needs.

Charging for premium support can recoup costs and improve service quality.

Operational execution of tiered support requires careful planning and training.

Technology enables effective routing and personalized service levels.

Customer expectations vary based on loyalty and payment for support.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and casual chat about sports

4222:10:50 Pivot to service: Should companies charge for attended support?

6972:11:09 Examples of tiered service in airlines and hospitality

9388:51:23 Consumer perspective on paying for better service

11916:38:11 Operational challenges of implementing tiered support

15472:11:43 Technology solutions for differentiated customer routing

215277:45:28 Historical context of tiered service in business

227499:58:49 Recommendations for adopting tiered service models

279166:39:06 Operational considerations and workforce planning

353611:06:28 Ensuring customer satisfaction and avoiding queue degradation

375277:46:37 Closing remarks and World Cup discussion

Customer surveys were once the backbone of quality programs. Today, response rates are collapsing, customers are ignoring them, and contact centers are left wondering how to measure performance without reliable feedback.

Fresh from Customer Contact Week in Las Vegas, Amas shares a conversation that kept coming up among industry leaders: transactional surveys are failing. Some organizations have seen response rates drop nearly 90%, creating real problems for coaching, quality scoring, bonuses, and operational decision-making.

Bob and Amas explore:

• Why surveys became the default measure of customer experience.
• Whether survey fatigue has finally reached a breaking point.
• Why AI-powered quality monitoring may be replacing traditional Voice of the Customer programs.
• The hidden flaw in most customer surveys.
• How changing who the feedback is for—from the company to the individual agent—can dramatically improve participation.

The conversation also tackles a bigger question: if customers are giving you their time and feedback, what responsibility do companies have to actually use it?

If your contact center still depends on post-interaction surveys, this episode is a timely look at what comes next.

The more important question might be: why are we still struggling with the same training problems we've had for twenty years?

In this episode, we tackle a challenge facing nearly every contact center: new hire training that produces high attrition, slow ramp times, and inconsistent performance.

The conversation started with a client losing roughly half of its new hires during training and another portion during nesting. Despite new technology, the outcomes felt painfully familiar.

We explored some uncomfortable questions:

• Are organizations hiring the right people for the job?

• Do recruiters actually understand the roles they're filling?

• Are training programs teaching agents what to know instead of how to find answers?

• Why are contact centers still trying to memorize information that changes every few weeks?

• How much time do leaders spend observing their own training programs?

Bob argues that many training failures begin before day one, with hiring processes that prioritize filling seats instead of finding the right fit.

We also discuss one of the biggest missed opportunities in modern training:

AI is changing how agents work, but many training organizations haven't changed how they train.

As AI-powered knowledge systems, agent assist tools, and automation become standard, training leaders need a seat at the table. Yet in many organizations, training teams are disconnected from the technology decisions that will fundamentally reshape agent performance.

One of the biggest insights from the discussion:

The real opportunity isn't using AI to automate training.

It's using AI to automate the things training used to spend time on so trainers can focus on the skills that matter most:

• Building rapport

• Problem solving

• Judgment

• De-escalation

• Relationship-building

• Handling difficult conversations

Technology changes.

The fundamentals don't.

Topics discussed:

• Why new hire attrition remains so high

• Hiring mistakes that create training failures

• Teaching agents how to find answers versus memorizing answers

• The role of nesting and floor support

• Why training content quickly becomes obsolete

• The disconnect between training teams and AI initiatives

• Agent assist and the future of onboarding

• Tough skills versus technical skills

• Why fundamentals still matter in modern contact centers

• How AI should reshape training priorities

Bob just returned from Italy with a story that should make every customer service leader pay attention.

At train stations in Venice and Florence, there were no employees to help. Just kiosks. If you wanted a ticket, you figured it out yourself. If you had a question, there was nobody to ask. It wasn't a glimpse of the future. It was the present.

That experience led us into a bigger discussion about AI, automation, and what customer service becomes when human interaction disappears.

We unpacked a recent Anthropic report showing that customer service roles have some of the highest exposure to AI-driven task automation. But exposure to tasks is not the same as elimination of jobs.

The deeper question is this:

Is customer service simply a collection of transactions, or is it fundamentally about relationships?

We discussed real-world results from an enterprise deployment of agentic AI where:

• Escalation rates were 4x higher when customers interacted with AI versus humans.
• Customers were significantly more likely to demand supervisors from bots.
• Contact volume increased by 50% in less than six months.
• Companies discovered that delivering bad news remains far more effective when done by a human.

History suggests that new channels rarely reduce demand. Email didn't reduce contacts. ATMs didn't eliminate bank tellers. They changed the nature of the work.

AI may do the same.

At the same time, organizations are racing toward automation while learning that token costs, increased interactions, and customer behavior may complicate the promised economics.

The technology is arriving at bullet-train speed.

The question is no longer whether AI is coming.

The question is:

Who are you in an AI-first world?

Will your company become a vending machine that happens to sell products?

Or will you intentionally preserve the human elements that create trust, loyalty, and relationships?

Because customer relationship management was never supposed to become customer technology management.

Topics discussed:

• Anthropic's AI exposure findings
• Why task automation doesn't automatically eliminate jobs
• The difference between transactional and relational service
• Real-world lessons from agentic AI deployments
• Rising escalation rates with AI interactions
• The hidden cost of token consumption
• Why customers treat bots differently than humans
• The future role of human agents
• How leaders should rethink customer service strategy in an AI-first era

AI hype is colliding with operational reality. A shoe company gains $127M in value by saying “AI,” while contact center leaders are told their entire model is obsolete. The shift from CCaaS to “Customer Experience Automation” reframes everything: not just support, but marketing, sales, and service collapsing into one AI-driven layer.

The problem: the foundation is broken. Knowledge is fragmented. Customer data is duplicated. Organizations are misaligned.

This episode dissects the gap between what the industry is promising and what companies can actually execute—and why customer service leaders are about to become the last line of defense when it fails.

Key Quotes

• “Customer experience automation just means AI is now the one doing the talking.”
• “Your human agents can’t find the right answers today—but now the AI is supposed to?”
• “This isn’t a technology problem. It’s an organizational problem.”
• “If this fails, customer service cleans it up. Again.”
• “The train is moving. You either help steer it or get run over by it.”

Practical Takeaways

• Stop debating AI capability. Start fixing knowledge.
• Treat data quality as a blocking issue, not a backlog item.
• Force alignment between marketing, sales, and service before automation.
• Assume AI will act autonomously—and design safeguards accordingly.
• Position customer service as the control layer, not the endpoint.

Exploring the future of AI in customer service, the role of agents, and how technology is transforming contact centers.

AI in customer service

The role of human agents vs. bots

Generative AI and workflow orchestration

Implications for contact center staffing

Future trends in AI and automation

00:00 Introduction and Guest Credibility

01:04 The Reality of AI Agents Today

01:43 AI as a Smart Assistant in Customer Calls

02:35 Agent Interaction and Human Oversight

03:34 Issuing Credits and Automation in Calls

04:56 Differences from Past AI Systems

05:24 Generative AI and Workflow Orchestration

06:38 Automating Routine Tasks with API Calls

07:21 Focusing on Customer Conversations

08:30 The Future Role of Human Agents

09:18 The Next Generation of AI in Customer Support

09:58 Scaling AI and Multiple Conversations

10:57 Supervising Bots and AI Agents

11:51 AI in Escalations and Approvals

12:30 The Impact on Contact Center Staffing

13:25 New Entrants and Innovation in AI

14:30 Channels and Self-Service in the Future

15:22 Transitioning from Live Agents to Digital Support

15:53 Industry Trends and CFO Expectations

16:14 Implications for Workforce and Business Models

17:08 The Economics of AI and Customer Support

18:28 Preparing for the AI-Driven Contact Center

19:35 Historical Context and Future Predictions

20:15 Limitations and Realities of AI Adoption

21:09 Customer Behavior and AI Impact

22:04 Self-Service and Customer Expectations

22:50 The Extent of AI Automation

23:17 The Role of Technology in Customer Support

24:43 Amazon’s Approach to Automation

25:36 Limitations of Current AI Models

26:36 Decision-Making Boundaries for AI

27:04 The Human Element in AI-Driven Support

28:15 Closing Remarks and Future Outlook

This episode explores the transformative impact of AI on quality assurance (QA) in contact centers. Hosts Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss how AI is revolutionizing call monitoring, evaluation, and coaching, emphasizing practical steps for leaders to leverage this technology effectively.

00:00 Introduction to QA in Contact Centers

00:51 The Impact of AI on Quality Assurance

03:50 Revolutionizing QA Processes

09:09 Shifting Perspectives on QA Monitoring

12:39 Leveraging AI for Enhanced Coaching

17:40 The Future of QA in an AI-Driven World

"You can listen to 100% of calls now"

"AI can help identify patterns and issues"

"Show the value your QA team delivers"

Exploring the evolution and challenges of Omnichannel strategies in customer service, from early concepts to current practices. Insights from industry veterans Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah on what works, what doesn't, and how to focus on the most impactful channels. key topics

Origins of Omnichannel in 2010

Challenges in integrating multiple channels

The importance of focusing on top channels

Customer expectations vs. technological capabilities

Lessons learned from industry experiences

Chapters

00:00 The Origins of Omnichannel

05:20 Challenges in Implementing Omnichannel Strategies

10:09 Finding Focus in Omnichannel Efforts

14:43 The Future of Customer Interaction

key topics

summary

In this episode, Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah explore the roles and goals of supervisors in contact centers, emphasizing coaching, relationship-building, and strategic management. They share practical tips for setting goals, managing time, and developing future leaders.

Goals and metrics for supervisors

Time management and coaching focus

Building relationships with team and leadership

Mentoring future leaders in contact centers

Strategic management at the director level

sound bites

"Make people think for themselves"

"Be the evangelist for your contact center"

"Spend time in books and learning"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Remote Supervision Challenges

02:24 Setting Goals as a Supervisor

05:05 Coaching and Development Focus

07:47 Managing Up: Supervisor and Manager Dynamics

10:46 Building Relationships with Management

13:16 Transitioning to Managerial Goals

15:56 Efficiency vs. Effectiveness in Management

18:38 The Importance of Relationships in Leadership

21:22 Continuous Learning and Development

 summary

This episode features a deep dive into contact center KPIs, exploring their flaws and how to measure customer experience effectively. Hosts Amas Tenumah and Bob Furness challenge industry norms and share practical insights for improving contact center performance.

 key  topics

Flaws in common KPIs like FCR, Service Level, NPS
The importance of standardized measurement
How to interpret and act on KPI data
Practical tips for contact center improvement

 resources

Contact Center Metrics Best Practices - https://example.com/contact-center-metrics
Net Promoter Score (NPS) Explained - https://example.com/nps-explained
Standardizing Contact Center KPIs - https://example.com/kpi-standardization

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the complexities of performance management, particularly focusing on forced distribution and its implications on employee evaluation and coaching. They explore alternative approaches to performance evaluation that prioritize individual performance over comparative scoring, emphasizing the importance of quality conversations in coaching. The discussion highlights the detrimental effects of scoring systems on employee morale and the need for a shift in focus towards meaningful feedback and development.

 

Forced distribution can hinder team dynamics and employee morale.
Performance should be evaluated based on individual contributions, not relative rankings.
Coaching conversations should focus on quality and empathy rather than scores.
Removing scores from evaluations can lead to more productive discussions.
HR policies often prioritize consistency over individual performance nuances.
Employees are aware of compensation disparities and may leverage offers from competitors.
Quality conversations can improve coaching outcomes significantly.
The focus should be on the overall experience rather than just numerical scores.
Feedback mechanisms should be separated from compensation discussions.
A shift in focus can lead to better employee engagement and performance.

 

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intricacies of performance reviews, emphasizing the importance of coaching and effective feedback. They introduce the YMCA methodology as a framework for coaching conversations, highlighting the need for ongoing dialogue and employee ownership in the performance management process. The discussion also touches on the significance of crucial conversations in fostering a productive work environment.

Takeaways

Performance reviews should not contain surprises for employees.
Coaching is essential for success in contact centers.
The YMCA methodology helps structure coaching conversations.
Effective feedback requires understanding the employee's perspective.
Managers should focus on building relationships through dialogue.
Crucial conversations are necessary for employee development.
Setting clear expectations is vital for performance management.
Follow-up is essential to ensure accountability and progress.
Employees should feel empowered to own their performance issues.
The coaching framework can be applied in various contexts, including personal relationships.

Sound bites

"We need you there at nine o'clock."
"I never fired anyone in my entire career."
"It works for your kids too."

Chapters

00:00 Winter Weather and Performance Reviews
01:07 The Importance of Coaching in Performance Reviews
04:05 Effective Feedback and Coaching Frameworks
06:01 The YMCA Methodology for Coaching Conversations
11:32 Calibrating Expectations and Actions
17:01 Crucial Conversations and Employee Ownership

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the implications of AI in quality assurance within contact centers. They explore the benefits of AI, such as increased coverage and trend spotting, while also addressing concerns about accuracy and the potential for AI to replace human interaction. The discussion emphasizes the importance of using AI to enhance human capabilities rather than eliminate them, and the need for effective coaching and data utilization to improve agent performance.

Main Content:

Understanding AI in Quality Assurance
The podcast opens with a light-hearted discussion about the weather, but it quickly shifts focus to a pressing topic: the use of AI in quality assurance. Amas and Bob agree that deploying AI in this area can be beneficial, especially regarding monitoring agent performance. One of the primary advantages they mention is the ability to achieve 100% call coverage. Traditionally, QA teams may only review a small percentage of calls, leading to inaccurate assessments of agent performance. With AI, contact centers can analyze every call, providing a more accurate picture of quality and performance.

Spotting Trends and Gaining Insights
Another significant benefit of AI mentioned in the podcast is its capability to spot trends in customer interactions. Bob highlights the importance of understanding call spikes, such as the recent increase in calls related to a coupon offer. AI can analyze large data sets quickly, allowing managers to respond to customer needs more effectively. This capability not only improves the customer experience but also empowers managers to make informed decisions based on real-time data.

The Risks of Relying Solely on AI
While Amas and Bob are enthusiastic about the potential of AI, they also express concern over its limitations. One critical issue is the accuracy of AI assessments. Amas warns that AI systems are often trained on human data, which can lead to discrepancies in scoring calls. He emphasizes the need for a human touch in QA processes, suggesting that AI should assist rather than replace human judgment. Without human oversight, there's a risk that AI can misinterpret nuances in customer-agent interactions, leading to misguided conclusions.

The Importance of Human Interaction
The conversation takes a deeper turn as they discuss the nature of customer service as a human interaction. Bob argues that technology should enhance the capabilities of QA teams, not eliminate them. He points out that while AI can streamline processes, it cannot replicate the empathy and understanding that a human agent brings to a conversation. The hosts advocate for a balanced approach where AI tools are used to support agents rather than replace them, ensuring that customer experiences remain positive and personalized.

Conclusion:
In conclusion, while AI presents exciting opportunities for enhancing quality assurance in contact centers, it is essential to approach its implementation with caution. Amas and Bob remind us that technology should complement human skills and insights rather than undermine them. By finding the right balance, organizations can leverage AI to improve performance while maintaining the human touch that is vital in customer service. 

Key Takeaways:
1. AI can enhance quality assurance by providing 100% call coverage and spotting trends in customer interactions.
2. The accuracy of AI assessments can be problematic; human oversight is crucial in the QA process.
3. Customer service is fundamentally a human interaction, and technology should support, not replace, human agents.

Tags: AI, Quality Assurance, Contact Centers, Customer Service, Technology, Human Interaction, Trends in Customer Experience, Agent Performance, Podcast Insights

Summary

In this episode, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss delve into the current state of Software as a Service (SaaS) and its intersection with artificial intelligence (AI), particularly in the context of contact centers. They discuss the recent downturn in stock prices for major SaaS companies like Salesforce and ServiceNow, attributing this to Wall Street's skepticism about the actual impact of AI on these platforms. Amas expresses concern that the hype surrounding AI is outpacing the reality of its implementation, suggesting that many companies are not yet ready to fully embrace AI-driven solutions. Bob echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of expertise and experience in successfully implementing these technologies.

 

AI hype is ahead of customer readiness.
Wall Street is skeptical about SaaS companies' future.
Vibe coding may not replace the need for expertise.
Experience in implementation outweighs potential of new tech.
Both extremes of AI adoption are currently inaccurate.

Sound bites

"Service now stock hasn't been this cheap in like four years."
"There's two different stories going on here."
"Both extremes are wrong today."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Current Market Overview
00:53 The Impact of AI on SaaS Companies
03:42 Building vs. Buying: The New Paradigm
07:18 Navigating Contract Renewals and New Technologies
10:49 The Future of AI in the Contact Center Industry
13:38 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Most customer experience goals are meaningless. In this episode, Bob Furniss and Amas Tenumah dismantle the way contact centers set annual CX metrics and explain why leaders keep optimizing numbers that customers neither notice nor value.

Using insights from a John Goodman article on CX goal-setting, the conversation exposes the disconnect between executives, customers, and frontline teams—and why automation, deflection, and "respectable" percentage improvements often make service worse, not better.

This episode is about shifting from internally convenient metrics to customer-impactful outcomes.

What You'll Hear

• Why CX goals are often chosen because they sound reasonable, not because they solve customer problems

• How executives chase a single "magic number" instead of understanding service complexity

• The fundamental incentive gap between customers and senior leadership

• Why customers and frontline agents are aligned—but executives aren't

• How automation and bots optimize company metrics while frustrating customers

• Where AI actually helps: analyzing volume, root causes, and systemic friction

• Why average metrics (ASA, AHT) distort reality and reward the wrong behavior

• How poor goal-setting punishes leaders who successfully automate the "easy" work

• The risk of letting someone else define your goals if you don't take control

• A real-world example of automation done right—and how bad metrics mislabel it as failure

Key Takeaways

• Vanity metrics don't fix customer experience

• Deflection and containment may look good internally while actively harming trust

• CX leaders must own the narrative or be trapped chasing numbers they don't believe in

• AI should surface customer pain, not just reduce contact volume

• Goals should reflect customer outcomes, not executive convenience

Resources Mentioned

• John Goodman's article on CX goal-setting (referenced in discussion)

• HOLD: The Suffering Economy of Customer Service by Amas Tenumah

  • Available on Amazon

  • Signed copies at waitingforservice.com

Who This Episode Is For

• Contact center and CX leaders setting 2026 goals

• Executives relying on NPS, ASA, AHT, or deflection as proxies for success

• Practitioners tired of fixing the wrong problems

• Anyone responsible for explaining service performance to leadership

 

 

2025 predictions — graded AI-powered knowledge

Bob's 2025 prediction: AI would dramatically improve knowledge in contact centers.
Result: Early but mostly wrong.

The technology moved, but the data did not. Knowledge bases were too fragmented, too dirty, and too poorly governed for AI to meaningfully improve frontline work. The industry instead spent another year chasing bots, automation, and surface-level "AI assistants."

Grade: C+

The failure was not AI. It was the state of enterprise knowledge.

Remote work reversal

Bob's 2025 prediction: Work-from-home would shrink and revert toward pre-COVID norms.
Result: Correct.

Remote and hybrid work has fallen to within five percentage points of pre-COVID levels. Companies quietly reversed course not because it helped customers or employees, but because leadership never learned how to manage distributed teams.

Hybrid was the worst of both worlds: frontline leaders juggling physical rooms, video calls, and dashboards without the training or structure to do any of it well.

Grade: A

Why remote work collapsed

The reversal was not ideological. It was operational.

Executives defaulted back to what felt controllable: physical presence. Organizations refused to do the hard work of re-engineering leadership, coaching, quality management, and accountability for a distributed workforce. They solved a people problem with proximity.

Amas' prediction for 2026

Voice comes back.

Digital channels absorbed most of the AI hype: chat, bots, messaging, and self-service. But customers never stopped calling. Voice is where frustration spikes, where trust is tested, and where automation breaks down.

Amas' call:
2026 will be the year voice reasserts itself as the center of the customer relationship — and the CCaaS market will look radically different by 2027 because of it.

Bob's prediction for 2026

Data becomes the bottleneck.

AI will only become useful where it has access to clean, structured, reliable data. The industry rushed into AI before fixing the foundations: knowledge, case data, call logs, customer history, and operational context.

2026 will be the year contact centers slow down, audit their data, and rebuild the plumbing that AI actually runs on.

No data. No intelligence.

What the industry is claiming

Analysts and vendors are promising three things for 2026:

• Predictive and proactive service
• Agent empowerment through AI
• Fewer humans in contact centers

Bob and Amas reject the third and remain skeptical of the first two without structural change. The hype assumes AI will replace labor. Reality says AI will expose how broken the systems around labor really are.

Amas' 2026 wish

Stop calling software "agents."

For twenty years, "agent" meant a human being doing emotional, cognitive, and relational labor. Rebranding bots as agents erases the workforce and confuses accountability.

Language shapes power. That battle matters.

Bob's 2026 wish

Focus on the employee.

AI should not be used to replace people. It should be used to remove friction from their work: searching, documenting, switching systems, hunting for answers. Knowledge was always the real use case. The industry just skipped the hard part.

Core takeaway

2025 proved that AI without data, governance, and human-centered design does not transform anything. It only adds noise.

2026 will reward the companies that stop chasing demos and start rebuilding the foundations: voice, knowledge, data, and frontline enablement.

That is where the real disruption will come from.

Amas Tenumah explains why customer service is not "broken" but intentionally designed to fail. Drawing on decades inside contact centers, historical research, and real corporate incentives, he argues that long waits, deflection, and automation-first strategies are features—not bugs. The conversation dismantles common CX myths, challenges executive complacency, and frames consumer behavior as the only force capable of triggering real change.

Core Themes

• The Suffering Economy of Customer Service:
  When service is universally bad across industries, it's systemic. Incentives—not incompetence—drive outcomes.

• Why This Is a "How Dare You" Book:
  The indictment is aimed squarely at executives who treat service as a cost center while overfunding marketing narratives.

• Marketing Replaced Service as Trust Mechanism:
  Historically, service was marketing. Industrialized marketing severed that link, allowing companies to tolerate bad service and buy growth instead.

• Metrics That Poison Service:
  Deflection, containment, and avoidance KPIs reward companies for not talking to customers—while punishing leaders who try to deliver what customers actually want.

• Wait Times Are Engineered:
  Hold times are budgeted, modeled, and accepted. They are designed friction, not operational accidents.

• AI as Distance, Not Salvation:
  AI is currently deployed to protect companies from customers, not customers from friction. It scales avoidance unless incentives change.

• Executives Don't Experience Their Own Service:
  Many leaders despise customer service—just not their own. Forcing executives to call their own 1-800 numbers is revelatory and uncomfortable.

• The Revolt Is Consumer-Led:
  Change will not come from CX professionals alone. It comes when consumers punish bad service with their wallets and reward companies that respect their time.

Notable Moments

• The opening story of the 1750 BC clay tablet complaint—the first recorded customer service grievance—reads like a modern Amazon review.

• The Chipotle refund anecdote exposes time theft: hours of customer labor to recover trivial amounts of money.

• The contrast between automation done for customers versus automation used to avoid them.

Practical Takeaways

• For Consumers:
  Vote with your wallet. Pay slightly more. Wait one more day. Call customer service before you buy big-ticket items.

• For Service Leaders:
  If your CEO doesn't believe in service as value creation, your job is to change their mind—or change jobs. Data plus customer stories are the leverage.

• For Executives:
  Service is deferred revenue protection. Treating it purely as cost is strategic malpractice.

Resources Mentioned

• Book: HOLD: The Suffering Economy of Customer Service — And the Revolt That's Long Overdue

• Signed Copies & Tools: waitingforservice.com

  • Consumer scripts

  • Cancellation guides

  • Practitioner playbooks

  • No email required

 

Summary

The conversation explores the integration of AI in sales, focusing on how it enhances customer engagement and improves sales efficiency. Bob Furniss discusses the importance of using data to empower salespeople rather than reducing their numbers, emphasizing a customer-centric approach to AI in sales.

 

 

Takeaways

AI can enhance customer engagement in sales.
The focus should be on empowering salespeople with data.
AI is not just about reducing costs but improving efficiency.
Sales strategies should prioritize customer needs.
Data-driven insights can lead to better sales outcomes.
AI can make sales calls faster and smarter.
The role of AI is to support, not replace, sales personnel.
Understanding customer needs is crucial in sales.
AI tools should be designed to assist sales processes.
The future of sales lies in the integration of technology and human touch.

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah, Bob Furniss and Brad Cleveland discusses the three levels of value that contact centers create: efficiency, customer satisfaction and loyalty, and strategic insights provided by AI. He emphasizes the importance of these levels in improving products, services, and processes.

Takeaways

there's three levels of value that contact centers create
Level one is efficiency
customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job
it's the strategic insight that AI can provide
it can still tell us, hey, here's a trend I'm seeing
Here's an opportunity to improve products and services
AI doesn't have to be perfect to provide value
Strategic insights can drive business improvements
Understanding trends is crucial for growth
Contact centers play a vital role in customer experience

Titles

Unlocking Value in Contact Centers
The Role of AI in Customer Service

Sound bites

"Level one is efficiency"
"customer satisfaction, loyalty, if we do a good job"
"it's the strategic insight that AI can provide"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Contact Center Show
00:27 AI and Its Impact on Customer Interactions
00:31 Future Jobs in the Contact Center Industry

Low-Cost, High-Impact CX Improvements

The Power of Language:

• Transform "I can't" into "How can we"
• Shift from "I have to" to "We get to"
• Being "impeccable with your word" (inspired by The Four Agreements)
• Words trigger emotional responses that shape customer perception

Getting CX Buy-In Across Organizations

The Alignment Problem:

• CX initiatives fail when metrics aren't shared across departments
• Success came when executives adopted the same CX metrics as the CX team
• Without shared goals, customer insights get shelved with "we'll get to it later"

The Pilot Program Strategy:

• Start small before asking for big budgets
• Show proof of concept with intentional, measurable pilots
• Use success to rally and align different areas of the company

Real Example - CX Day Success:

• Introduced first-ever CX Day celebration at 145-year-old engineering company
• Started small despite skepticism
• Now an annual tradition that continues after her departure

Rethinking CX Metrics

Beyond Traditional Measurements:

• NPS and effort scores are starting points, not endpoints
• "Satisfaction" is no longer good enough (it's the equivalent of "fine")
• New focus: Emotional altitude across every touchpoint

The Emotional Impact:

• Brains constantly cycle between thinking and feeling
• Emotions create lasting imprints that shape brand perception
• Research shows: 12 positive experiences needed to overcome 1 negative
• Measure emotional highs to identify gaps and successes

The Four Rs of CX Impact:

• Revenue
• Retention
• Reputation
• Referrals

The Future of Contact Centers

Human + AI Integration:

• Smart companies intentionally map where humans add value vs. where AI should handle interactions
• The answer is "both/and" not "either/or"
• Critical: Validate designs with real customers, not just internal teams

The Contact Center Superpower:

• Contact center teams speak to more customers in a week than other departments do in a year
• This proximity to customers gives agents unique power to be organizational change agents
• Voice of customer insights should inform product development, marketing messaging, and more

Words Matter in the AI Era:

• Example: Website offering "24/7 support, our guides are happy to help you"
• "Guides" for both humans and AI feels impersonal
• Naming and framing still matters

The Power of Customer Voice

The 10-Minute Video Story: A contact center leader captured customer feedback about a failed new product. At an executive meeting, he played a 10-minute compilation of customer complaints.

• The CEO's initial advisor said it was a career-ending mistake
• The CEO walked out during the video
• Result: CEO returned and said it was "the best 10 minutes anybody's ever played" and named him employee #1
• Customer voice changed the company's trajectory

The Validation Imperative:

• Internal perspective isn't enough
• Customer validation must be iterative, not one-time
• Can't use internal team as proxy for outside voice
• Both internal knowledge AND customer validation matter

The Fundamental C-Suite Challenge

When C-suite leaders aren't aligned in their meetings, misalignment trickles down through the entire organization. This is the root problem preventing effective CX implementation.

Notable Stories

The Morgan & Morgan Tattoo Story: Leadership promised to get company logo tattoos if the team hit an unprecedented conversion rate goal. When they achieved it, 40 leaders got matching tattoos - four tattoo artists came in for the day. The question became: "Is your brand tattoo-worthy?"

Stacey's Podcast Origin: Bought her first microphone for under $50, then waited six months before taking it out of the box due to fear. That mic ignited her journey to intentionally sharing her voice through podcasting.

Living Podcasting: At the conference, Stacey pulled out her mic to record a 10-minute session where Amas (who has Parkinson's) gave direct advice to her relative with a similar condition - creating immediate, personal value rather than secondhand communication.

Takeaways for Contact Center Leaders

1. Language shapes reality - Small word changes create emotional shifts in customer experience
2. Demand metric alignment - CX can't succeed unless executives share the same measurements
3. Start with pilots - Prove value small-scale before requesting major investment
4. Leverage your proximity to customers - Use it to become the organizational glue and change agent
5. Validate everything with real customers - Internal assumptions aren't enough
6. Map the human-AI journey intentionally - Design where each adds value, then test with customers
7. Bring customer voice to leadership - Sometimes the most powerful thing is making them listen directly
8. Average isn't acceptable - Move beyond satisfaction to creating emotional highs

Episode Summary

Broadcasting live from the ICMI conference in Orlando, Amas and Bob discuss the evolving role of AI in contact centers, the ongoing struggle for strategic recognition, and welcome special guest Bianca, who shares her unique perspective on running HR as a contact center at Michigan State University.

 

 

Host: Bob Furniss (without co-host Amos)
Guest: Daniel Thomas, Informa
Location: ICMI Conference Expo Floor

Guest Background

• Daniel Thomas approaches contact center industry from a research background
• Surveys audiences and writes research reports
• Has "front row seat" to industry transformation
• Conducts the annual State of the Contact Center survey

About the State of the Contact Center Report

• Comprehensive benchmark study surveying contact center professionals
• Covers multiple verticals including:
  • Training and skills
  • Compensation and salary
  • Technology use
  • Leadership perceptions
  • Strategy
• Tracks year-over-year progress
• Recent additions include AI and workforce training questions

Key Surprising Findings 1. Contact Centers as Strategic Intelligence Hubs

• Major shift: Contact centers increasingly viewed as "strategic customer intelligence hubs" rather than cost centers
• Described as "customer intelligence and nervous system"
• No other department has closer customer proximity or more customer data
• C-suite now acknowledges value with direct data funnels informing executive decisions

2. AI Perceptions and Impact

• 72% believe AI will transform roles, not replace them
• Only ~25% think AI will lead to workforce reductions
• AI expected to handle "level one, rote, monotonous, repetitive work"
• Agents will focus on:
  • Complex needs and edge cases
  • Soft skills: empathy, communication, problem solving, critical thinking
• 90% of surveyed leaders believe humans necessary as AI overseers
• Gartner prediction: 40% of agentic AI projects will fail by 2027 (often due to neglecting human oversight)

Agent Evolution

• Agents increasingly viewed as:
  • Consultants
  • Solutions architects
  • Higher-tier problem solvers
  • "White glove service" providers
• Rising expectations due to AI support
• Agents becoming intelligence providers to C-suite
• More analytical roles: identifying trends, patterns, creating intelligent summaries

Top AI Implementation Concerns

1. Customer resistance (top concern)
2. Data accuracy
3. Data privacy and security
4. Lack of proper AI governance

Workforce and Quality Management Insights Workforce Models (Nearly Equal Three-Way Split)

• In-office full time
• Hybrid
• Fully remote
• Models remain transitional and subject to change
• Increased scheduling flexibility critical for retention

Quality Focus Shift

• Traditional metrics: CSAT, utilization, average handle time
• New priority: Agent experience rising in importance
• Recognition that internal customer experience drives external customer experience

Customer Satisfaction Challenges

• Current CSAT surveys often lack nuance
• Can't distinguish between:
  • Poor agent performance vs. poor company policy
  • Single bad experience vs. overall satisfaction
• Need for more qualitative feedback mechanisms
• "Watermelon effect": High metrics but poor actual experience

Channel Evolution

• Significant jump from multi-channel to omni-channel implementation
• Growth in non-traditional channels:
  • Social media
  • SMS/text
  • Video
• Technology enabling unified customer history across channels

Key Takeaways

• Successful organizations treat contact centers as "valuable strategic sources of intelligence"
• Organizations not recognizing this value are "dropping the ball" and will "see the consequences"
• Contact centers serve as the "hub" and "nervous system" reaching everywhere in the organization
• When no one knows the answer, they turn to the contact center

Notable Quotes

• "If your agents aren't excited about AI, then you actually haven't communicated to them how enriching and transforming it could be"
• "Agents are increasingly going to play a role where they are the eyes and the ears... providing the intelligence back to the C-suite"
• Contact centers as "the strongest data... the hub... the nervous system that reaches in everywhere else"

Summary

In this conversation, Amas, Luke and Bob explore the evolving complexity of contact centers, challenging the notion that they are becoming simpler. They emphasizes that while the intention may be to simplify processes, the reality is that sophistication often leads to increased complexity. They also highlights the reliance on outdated metrics, such as those managed in Excel, which can contribute to agent burnout and friction with customers. They advocate for a shift towards more effective lead metrics to enhance the overall efficiency and satisfaction in contact centers.

Takeaways

Contact centers are perceived as becoming simpler, but they are actually becoming more complex.
Sophistication in processes can lead to increased complexity.
There is a challenge in addressing the complexity of contact centers.
Many organizations are still reliant on outdated tools like Excel.
Using lead metrics can help prevent agent burnout.
Improving metrics can reduce friction with customers.
The conversation highlights the need for modernization in contact center operations.
Understanding complexity is crucial for effective management.
Agent burnout is a significant issue in the industry.
A shift in metrics is necessary for better outcomes.

Sound Bites

"Sophistication also brings complexity."
"We are still for the most part stuck in Excel."
"Lead metrics could stop agent burnout."

Live from Orlando at ICMI Expo 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolution of contact centers, the impact of CRM systems like Salesforce, and the role of AI in enhancing agent performance. They reflect on the historical context of CRM, the challenges faced by agents, and the future of customer service technology, particularly focusing on the Agent Force initiative. The discussion also touches on the sentiment within the Salesforce community and the potential for new competitors in the market.

 

Takeaways

Salesforce has become a dominant player in the CRM space.
The evolution of contact centers has been significant over the years.
AI can enhance agent performance rather than replace them.
Understanding customer needs is crucial for effective service.
The Agent Force initiative aims to improve agent capabilities.
There is a negative sentiment towards Salesforce in the contact center community.
The cost of building technology is decreasing, making competition more feasible.
AI's role in customer service is still evolving and needs to focus on agents.
Salesforce must communicate its value to agents to maintain loyalty.
The future of customer service technology is uncertain but full of potential.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Context Setting
01:29 The Evolution of CRM and Contact Centers
06:05 Current Trends in Salesforce and AI
11:13 Agent Force and the Future of Customer Service
15:54 Prognosis for Salesforce and the Industry

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intricate relationship between marketing and call center operations, particularly during high-demand periods like holidays. They share personal anecdotes about challenges faced in fulfilling customer orders due to marketing miscommunications and emphasize the importance of building strong relationships between marketing and contact center teams. The discussion highlights the need for effective communication, data sharing, and collaboration to enhance customer experience and operational efficiency.

 

Takeaways

The holiday season can create significant challenges in call center operations.
Marketing decisions can directly impact call center workload and customer satisfaction.
Building relationships with marketing teams is crucial for effective communication.
Data sharing between marketing and contact centers can improve customer service.
Understanding operational limitations is essential for marketing strategies.
Regular meetings between marketing and contact center teams can foster collaboration.
Customer feedback is valuable for shaping marketing strategies.
Effective communication can prevent misunderstandings and operational chaos.
A cooperative approach can lead to better resource allocation and planning.
Engaging with customers directly can provide insights that benefit marketing efforts.

 

Summary:
For decades, leaders have debated whether the contact center should be a cost center, a profit center, or something in between. In this episode, Amas and Bob cut through the noise and tackle the question head-on: Is the contact center truly a profit center—or are we just telling the story wrong?

Amas argues that the CFO decides the labels, not us, and that contact centers suffer from being terrible storytellers compared to marketing. Bob reinforces that stories, not spreadsheets, are what move executives to invest in customer experience. Together, they break down how leaders can turn raw data into persuasive narratives that actually secure budget, influence the C-suite, and prove value.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• Why the "profit center" debate hasn't gone away—and probably won't.

• The crucial difference between value creation and revenue generation.

• How marketing gets credit (and budget) despite spending every dollar they touch.

• Why endless Excel spreadsheets put executives to sleep—and what to do instead.

• The art of translating metrics into stories that CFOs and CEOs actually care about.

• Practical steps for contact center leaders to elevate their influence in the boardroom.

Key Quotes:

• "The CFO decides what's a cost center and what's a revenue center. We are just bad at telling our story." – Amas

• "People don't remember your statistics. They remember your stories." – Bob

• "Marketing spends money all day, but they've convinced the world they're indispensable. We should learn from that." – Amas

Episode Highlights:

• (01:00) Revisiting the old debate: profit center vs. cost center.

• (02:30) Why marketing gets treated differently—and why service leaders should care.

• (04:30) The deadly sin of sending executives binders of metrics.

• (06:00) How to tell stories executives will remember—and fund.

• (09:00) Using customer stories to anchor your data.

• (11:30) Why your relationship with marketing and the CFO matters most.

• (12:45) Teaser: Amas & Bob will be recording LIVE at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando, Oct 27–30.

Resources & Links:

• Amas's blog post: "Contact Centers Are Not Revenue Centers" [link]

• Learn more about the ICMI Contact Center Expo

We're back from summer break (okay, maybe fall break too) and diving straight into the mess where AI, customers, and reality collide. In this episode, Amas and Bob unpack the hype vs. the truth about AI in contact centers:

• Is AI replacing humans—or just making customers angrier?

• Why human agents are still the heart of service, even as bots sound more "human."

• How contact center leaders feel stuck—between CEOs chanting "AI, AI, AI" and customers who just want their problems solved.

• What the data really says about automation, agent workloads, and customer expectations.

• Practical advice for leaders: use AI to reduce after-call work, not replace human connection.

We also share personal summer highlights—Amas' trip to Italy with his son, Bob's perfect beach-and-donut days—and a fiery debate about tipping culture.

Finally, big news: The Contact Center Show is hitting the road! Catch us live at the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando (October 27–30). We'll have guests, fresh perspectives, and maybe even say the things your CEO wishes you wouldn't.

Key Takeaways

• AI isn't the enemy. The problem is how it's rolled out—done to agents, not for them.

• Agents aren't disappearing. Industry headcount is actually growing, despite automation hype.

• Data is your weapon. Use it to show execs that customers can tell when a bot can handle it—and when they need a human.

• Customer trust is fragile. Overcomplicate service and they'll punish you with churn and complaints.

• Leadership focus must return to people. Coaching, development, and real support matter more than the next shiny tool.

Episode Quotes

• "I don't hear the C-suite anymore talking about our people as the difference. It's just AI, AI, AI." – Amas

• "It's not about reducing talk time. It's about reducing the after-call work so agents can get back to serving." – Bob

• "Adoption is failing in many companies because reps just ignore the tools. You're doing it to them, not for them." – Amas

Resources & Links

• Register for ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando → https://www.icmi.com/contact-center-expo-conference

• Follow Amas on LinkedIn: @amastenumah

Next Steps

Want us to bring The Contact Center Show to your company, campus, or event? Reach out—we'll say the things you can't without getting fired.

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the intersection of sports fandom and the business of contact centers, particularly focusing on business process outsourcing (BPO). They explore the reasons companies choose to outsource their customer service operations, the challenges involved, and the evolving landscape of the BPO industry. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding core competencies, cost savings, and the need for competent consultants in the BPO space.

 

 

Takeaways

The NBA Finals can evoke strong emotions and rivalries.
BPOs are third-party services handling customer interactions.
Cost savings is the primary reason for outsourcing.
Companies often outsource to focus on their core competencies.
Successful outsourcing requires understanding what to delegate.
BPOs can leverage scale and technology for efficiency.
Choosing the right outsourcing partner is crucial.
AI is changing the landscape of customer service.
Consultants with deep contact center experience are valuable.
The BPO industry is evolving to include more tech services.

Chapters

00:00 NBA Finals and Personal Rivalries
01:15 Understanding BPOs and Contact Centers
02:26 The Decision to Outsource
03:35 Implementing Outsourcing Strategies
06:25 The BPO Industry's Shift to AI
08:07 Core Competencies in Outsourcing
10:52 Final Thoughts on BPO and Customer Care

Summary

In this heartfelt conversation, Bob Furniss shares the story of his daughter Keisha, who bravely battled breast cancer and inspired many through her positivity and strength. Bob discusses the impact of her life, the challenges of writing a book about her journey, and the mission of the nonprofit established in her honor to raise awareness about breast health. The conversation emphasizes the importance of early detection and encourages listeners to take action in their own lives.

Takeaways

Keisha was a light in the world, known for her positivity.
Bob wrote the book to honor Keisha's legacy and help others.
The nonprofit aims to raise awareness about breast health.
Early detection of breast cancer is crucial for survival.
Keisha's story is a reminder to cherish loved ones.
Bob encourages open conversations about health in families.
The book captures the essence of Keisha's spirit.
Bob's journey of writing was both challenging and healing.
The nonprofit provides resources for young women regarding breast health.
Keisha's impact continues through the stories shared by others.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Weekend Highlights
02:54 The Story of Keisha: A Daughter's Legacy
05:58 Keisha's Impact and Personality
08:56 The Journey of Writing the Book
11:48 The Nonprofit Mission and Its Connection to Keisha
15:09 Encouraging Action: Breast Health Awareness
17:52 Reflections on Loss and Legacy
21:11 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

 

📚 Get the book: On to Blue (available on Amazon in all formats)

🌐 Support the cause: www.warriorprincess.org

If you're a parent, friend, or leader—especially in a contact center full of women aged 25–45—listen to this conversation. Then talk to the women in your life.

👉 And ask her.

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss various aspects of customer service, focusing on trends, the importance of human interaction, and the role of AI. They reflect on personal experiences with customer service, emphasizing the need for effective communication and the challenges faced by contact centers. The discussion highlights customer preferences, skepticism towards AI, and the potential for technology to enhance human agents rather than replace them.

Takeaways

Customer service impacts loyalty, trust, and brand reputation.
Ineffective customer service can quickly damage a brand's reputation.
Customers still prefer human interaction, especially older demographics.
AI is not yet fully capable of replacing human agents in customer service.
Many customers are skeptical about the use of AI in service.
The majority of customers still want to talk to a human.
Self-service options can be frustrating for customers who prefer direct contact.
AI can be used to support agents rather than replace them.
Effective communication is crucial in addressing customer needs.
Understanding customer preferences is key to improving service.

Chapters

00:00 Weekend Reflections and Brisket Adventures
01:11 Customer Service Trends: Insights from the Article
03:49 The Importance of Human Interaction in Customer Service
07:37 AI in Customer Service: Current Limitations and Future Potential
10:59 Customer Preferences: The Skepticism Towards AI
11:52 Effective Use of AI: Enhancing Human Agents
14:12 Navigating the Future of Customer Service

 

https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/customer-service-trends-show-what-customers-really-want-its-not-just-ai/ 

This conversation delves into the critical role of frontline supervisors in contact centers, exploring the challenges they face, the future of their roles amidst technological advancements, and effective leadership strategies to support them. The discussion emphasizes the importance of human connection in leadership and the need for organizations to prioritize the well-being and development of their frontline supervisors.  

 

Takeaways

The job of a frontline supervisor can be overwhelming.
Many supervisors lack adequate training for their roles.
Time management is crucial for supervisors to balance their responsibilities.
Supervisors often spend less than 50% of their time with their teams.
Technology is changing the landscape of contact centers, impacting supervisors' roles.
AI and automation may not replace supervisors but change their responsibilities.
Leadership should focus on personal growth and development.
Praise and coaching should be balanced in management practices.
Human customers will always need human supervisors.
Organizations must check in on their frontline supervisors regularly.

 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of contact centers, particularly focusing on Microsoft's recent rebranding efforts that redefine the term 'agent' to refer to bots rather than human representatives. They explore the implications of this shift, the role of technology in customer service, and the importance of maintaining a human connection in an increasingly automated environment. The discussion emphasizes the need for leaders in the industry to advocate for human agents while navigating the challenges posed by AI and digital transformation.

Takeaways

Microsoft's rebranding reflects a significant shift in the contact center industry.
The term 'agent' is now being associated with bots rather than human representatives.
Technology is becoming the focal point in contact centers, often at the expense of human agents.
There is a need for industry professionals to push back against the over-reliance on technology.
AI should be used to support human agents, not replace them.
The future of customer service must include a balance between technology and human interaction.
Leaders should advocate for the value of human agents in the face of automation.
Customer loyalty is built on human connections, not technology.
The conversation around AI in contact centers is evolving rapidly.
It's essential to maintain clarity in terminology to avoid confusion between human and digital agents.

Titles

The Future of Contact Centers: Humans vs. Bots
Navigating the AI Revolution in Customer Service

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Sports Banter
02:01 Microsoft's Rebranding and the Future of Contact Centers
06:05 The Role of Technology in Contact Centers
12:03 Navigating Change in Contact Center Operations
17:57 Conclusion and Call to Action
18:59 contact center show vertical outtro.mp4

 

Links:https://www.cxtoday.com/contact-center/microsoft-rebrands-its-contact-center-workspace-stops-using-the-term-agent-for-live-reps/

https://www.cxtoday.com/contact-center/microsoft-releases-three-ai-agents-for-a-more-autonomous-contact-center/

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the critical issues surrounding employee engagement and retention, particularly in contact centers. They explore the impact of leadership on employee satisfaction, the importance of proper training for supervisors, and the need for organizations to create a supportive work environment. The discussion emphasizes the necessity of understanding why employees stay or leave, and how effective leadership can foster a positive workplace culture. The conversation concludes with a call to action for organizations to prioritize leadership development and employee engagement strategies. Takeaways

• Employee engagement has regressed to pre-COVID levels.
• Understanding why employees leave is crucial for retention.
• Strong relationships with leaders can influence employee retention.
• Promoting the best employee to a leadership role can backfire.
• Leadership training is often lacking in organizations.
• A supportive work environment is essential for employee satisfaction.
• Employees need to feel a sense of purpose in their work.
• Effective communication between managers and employees is vital.
• Organizations must be realistic about job expectations.
• Investing time in leadership development is necessary for success.

TitlesReviving Employee Engagement Post-COVID Sound Bites

• "Why are people leaving?"
• "People don't leave jobs, they leave employers."
• "Let us know if you want more of this."

Chapters 00:00The State of Employee Engagement 02:59Understanding Employee Retention 06:11The Role of Leadership in Retention 08:45Training and Development for Leaders 12:06Creating a Supportive Work Environment 15:02The Importance of Purpose in Work 17:59Final Thoughts and Call to Action   https://news.gallup.com/poll/1720/work-work-place.aspx

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of customer satisfaction metrics, particularly focusing on the Net Promoter Score (NPS). They explore the origins of NPS, its initial impact on customer sentiment, and the criticisms it has faced over the years. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding customer feedback and the ethical implications of incentivizing customer responses. Ultimately, they question the relevance of NPS in today's business environment and suggest a more nuanced approach to measuring customer satisfaction.   Takeaways

• It's a people business.
• NPS became kind of a synonym for customer satisfaction.
• NPS has now been bastardized.
• We have data now that NPS does not correlate to recommendations.
• If I did what you wanted, please give me a good score.
• We've put that person into a place where they are just trying to meet the expectation.
• If it's going to be about the damn metric, fix the system.
• NPS is past its time.
• We need to wow our customers.
• We need to keep customer sentiment really, really matters.

Chapters

00:00 The Ever-Changing Landscape of Business
02:27 The Evolution and Impact of NPS
11:27 Critique of NPS: Is It Still Relevant?
18:18 The Ethics of Customer Feedback and Incentives

 

Resources:

https://itamargilad.com/net-promoter-score-part1/

https://www.netpromotersystem.com/insights/refocusing-nps-for-earned-growth-podcast/ 

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the challenges and implications of automation in customer service, particularly focusing on HP's controversial decision to implement a 15-minute wait time for customers to encourage self-service. They explore customer preferences, the impact of wait times on experience, and the importance of effective customer service strategies in business. The discussion highlights the balance between cost efficiency and customer satisfaction, culminating in a call for companies to value customer feedback and service quality.

Takeaways

Automation in customer service often leads to frustration.
HP's 15-minute wait policy aimed to push digital self-service.
Customer preferences should be prioritized in service design.
Long wait times can significantly impact customer experience.
Companies must listen to customer feedback to improve services.
Self-service options should be user-friendly and accessible.
The cost of human interaction in customer service is high.
Effective communication is key to customer satisfaction.
Businesses should focus on long-term customer relationships.
Customer service should be valued as a critical business function.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Light Banter
00:57 The Automation Dilemma in Customer Service
02:55 HP's Controversial 15-Minute Wait Policy
06:07 Customer Preferences and Self-Service Solutions
09:02 The Impact of Wait Times on Customer Experience
12:02 HP's Policy Rescinded and Customer Feedback
15:06 The Importance of Customer Service in Business
17:58 Conclusion and Call to Action

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the evolving landscape of customer service, particularly the role of AI and human agents. They reflect on the impact of AI technologies on contact centers, emphasizing that while AI can enhance efficiency, the human element remains crucial. They reference Klana's recent shift back to valuing human interaction, highlighting consumer preferences for speaking with live agents. The discussion underscores the importance of using AI to support rather than replace human agents, ultimately advocating for a balanced approach to customer service that prioritizes both technology and human connection.

Takeaways

AI is capable of handling a significant volume of customer interactions.
The belief that AI will completely replace human agents is exaggerated.
Human agents are becoming more valuable in the age of AI.
AI should be used to enhance the capabilities of human agents.
Consumer preference still leans heavily towards human interaction for customer service.
Companies that ignore the human element risk losing customer satisfaction.
The integration of AI in customer service should focus on efficiency and support for agents.
Automation can lead to increased customer interactions, not a decrease.
The return of human agents in companies like Klana highlights the importance of personal touch.
Understanding customer needs is essential for effective service delivery. 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss explore the critical themes of leadership, empathy, and the evolving dynamics in contact centers, especially in the context of AI integration. They discuss the importance of creating a safe and trusting environment for employees, the need for compassion in leadership, and the distinction between finding meaning from work versus meaning at work. The conversation emphasizes that as technology advances, the human element in leadership becomes even more vital.

Takeaways

Empathy can be learned but is often defined differently by individuals.
Leaders must create a safe space for employees to express themselves.
Hope, trust, compassion, and stability are essential for effective leadership.
The relationship between agents and managers is changing with AI integration.
Employees need to feel safe to express unpopular opinions without fear of repercussions.
The shift towards a people-based business model is crucial in contact centers.
Meaning at work is derived from relationships, not just salary.
Compassion in leadership helps employees feel valued and supported.
AI should enhance human interactions, not replace them.
Leaders should regularly assess if they are providing hope and trust to their teams.

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the ongoing shift back to office work post-COVID, the challenges of hybrid work models, and the importance of thoughtful leadership in contact centers. They explore the reasons behind companies' push for employees to return to the office, the impact of remote work on productivity, and the need for effective communication and community building in the workplace.

 

 

Takeaways

There is a significant push for employees to return to the office post-COVID.
Many companies are struggling with the logistics of bringing employees back.
The culture argument for returning to the office is often unfounded.
Remote work has shown to be as productive, if not more so, than in-person work.
Contact centers have been slower to adopt remote work models compared to other industries.
Leaders need to be intentional about fostering community in the workplace.
Hybrid work models are challenging to implement effectively.
Companies should leverage the opportunity to build stronger teams when employees are in the office.
Effective communication tools are essential for maintaining productivity in contact centers.
Workforce management is crucial for understanding employee needs and optimizing operations.

 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the essential skills for success in customer service roles, emphasizing the importance of empathy, authenticity, and a positive attitude. They explore how these skills can be taught or innate, and the impact of genuine interactions on customer experiences. The discussion highlights the need for contact center leaders to trust their employees to be themselves and to foster authentic relationships with customers.

 

Takeaways

Empathy is the most crucial skill in customer service.
You cannot teach empathy; it must be inherent.
Authenticity in interactions leads to better customer experiences.
Positive attitudes can sometimes feel insincere.
Trusting employees to be themselves enhances service quality.
Customer service training should focus on genuine interactions.
Scripts can hinder authentic communication with customers.
Empathy should be felt, not just expressed in words.
Leaders should encourage authenticity in their teams.
Building relationships with customers is key to effective service.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Customer Service Skills
01:17 The Importance of Empathy in Customer Service
05:50 Understanding Authenticity in Customer Interactions
12:44 The Role of Positive Attitude in Service
17:45 Building Trust and Authentic Relationships

Takeaways

Customer service experiences can be frustrating and time-consuming.
Government intervention may be necessary to improve customer service standards.
Companies often fail to address their own customer service issues.
The experience of customers with disabilities is often overlooked.
Regulations in Europe provide clearer guidelines for customer service.
Technology alone will not solve customer service problems.
Organizations need to actively seek feedback to improve service.
Customer service representatives often have limited solutions to offer.
Internal reforms are essential for enhancing customer experience.
The government may step in if companies do not take action. 

Chapters

00:00 The State of Customer Service Today
08:52 Government Intervention in Customer Service
13:01 The Future of Customer Experience

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss the challenges of employee engagement and satisfaction in the workplace, particularly in the context of returning from time off. They explore the importance of recognition, meaningful work, and the impact of relationships on employee well-being. The discussion also touches on insights from other industries and the need for a more personalized approach to understanding employee needs.

 

Takeaways

Taking time off often leads to a desire to stop working altogether.
Employee satisfaction is declining, particularly in service industries.
Meaningful work drives engagement more than financial compensation.
Recognition is a key motivator for employees.
Understanding the grind of work is essential for improving engagement.
Relationships in the workplace are crucial for employee success.
Cultural insights from other industries can inform better practices.
Time off does not necessarily recharge employees for more work.
A personalized approach is needed to understand employee needs.
Attention to employee well-being can prevent disengagement.

Chapters

00:00 New Year Greetings and Reflections
01:37 Employee Satisfaction and Engagement Post-COVID
05:21 The Importance of Meaningful Work
10:54 Recognition and Relationships in the Workplace
15:59 Learning from Other Industries

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss reflect on the year 2024 in customer service, discussing persistent challenges in contact centers, the evolution of work-from-home practices, and changing customer expectations regarding returns. They also share personal anecdotes about memorable holiday gifts and emphasize the importance of gratitude and understanding during the holiday season.

 

Takeaways

AI is still not as user-friendly as expected.
Contact centers face ongoing challenges similar to those from years ago.
The importance of people in customer service remains paramount.
Work from home practices have significantly retreated post-pandemic.
Customer expectations for frictionless returns have increased.
Companies need to adapt their customer service strategies accordingly.
Personal experiences shape our views on customer service.
Gratitude and patience are essential during the holiday season.
Not everyone celebrates Christmas, and inclusivity matters.
Memorable gifts often come with personal stories and reflections.

Chapters

00:00 Reflecting on Customer Service Trends of 2024
04:52 The Evolution of Work From Home in Contact Centers
10:13 Customer Expectations and Return Policies
14:56 Memorable Holiday Gifts and Personal Reflections
20:00 Gratitude and Acknowledgment During the Holidays

 

 

 

Summary

In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Bob Furniss discuss various themes surrounding customer experience, particularly in the context of recent tragic events and the impact of societal anger on service interactions. They explore the quality of food at conferences, the implications of a recent murder related to healthcare dissatisfaction, and the need for empathy and flexibility in customer service policies. The discussion emphasizes the importance of human interaction in service environments and the challenges posed by rigid policies that often ignore individual circumstances.

 

Chapters

00:00 Conference Experiences and Food Quality
02:05 Tragic Events in Healthcare Leadership
06:48 Customer Service Challenges and Societal Anger
09:17 Policies vs. Empathy in Customer Service
16:36 The Human Element in Customer Interactions
17:15 contact center show vertical outtro.mp4

Summary

In this episode, Amas and Bob discuss the complexities of hybrid work, particularly in the context of contact centers. They explore the evolution of remote work, the challenges of engaging employees in a hybrid environment, and the strategies leaders can implement to ensure success. The conversation highlights the importance of digital communication, effective training, and the need for organizations to adapt to the changing expectations of the workforce, especially among younger generations.

Takeaways

Hybrid work presents unique challenges for leaders.
Effective communication is crucial in a hybrid environment.
Training and coaching must adapt to hybrid models.
Employee engagement strategies need to be rethought for hybrid teams.
Digital-first approaches can enhance remote work experiences.
Management by walking around is still important, even remotely.
Organizations must be ready to support hybrid work effectively.
The future of work is influenced by generational expectations.
Contact centers are lagging behind in remote work adoption.
Success in hybrid work requires careful planning and execution.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Hybrid Work Challenges
02:56 The Evolution of Remote Work
05:56 Navigating Hybrid Engagement
12:03 Key Strategies for Hybrid Success
16:05 Future of Work and Generational Expectations

 

**Key Highlights:**

1. **Introduction:**
   - Bob enjoys the banter with Amas about customer service challenges.

2. **Sister's Experience:**
   - Amas shares a story from his sister about difficulties in returning items, highlighting widespread customer service frustrations.
   - Discussion shifts to training as a core issue in service quality.

3. **The Training Debate:**
   - Bob emphasizes that training isn't just a simple problem; it encompasses various methods (classroom, online, interactive).
   - The importance of hiring effective trainers with strong facilitation skills is noted.

4. **Expectations vs. Reality:**
   - Unrealistic expectations on agents' knowledge vs. what's feasible in training are discussed.
   - Example from Bob's experience with product training illustrates gaps in knowledge expectations.

5. **Realistic Training Goals:**
   - Focus should shift from rote memorization to understanding concepts and finding information.
   - The need for open-book assessments and emphasis on problem-solving skills.

6. **Importance of Context:**
   - Understanding the "why" behind questions is crucial for effective customer interaction.
   - Agents should connect with customers rather than just provide scripted answers.

7. **AI's Role:**
   - AI can aid in information retrieval but cannot replace the need for agents to engage with customers on a deeper level.

8. **Living Training:**
   - The best training comes from real-life experiences, not just theoretical knowledge.
   - Importance of "nesting" (support after training) for new agents to apply what they've learned.

9. **Closing Thoughts:**
   - Bob quotes Ben Franklin: "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
   - Both hosts encourage listeners to consider how to improve training practices.

10. **Live Podcast Announcement:**
    - Bob and Amas will be at the ICMI show in Orlando from October 21-25.
    - Listeners are invited to join, engage, and share their thoughts during live recordings.

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**Podcast Summary: Tackling Contact Center Attrition**

In this episode, Amas and Bob dive into the persistent challenge of attrition in contact centers. They reminisce about Amas's experience running a center in the mid-2000s, where the attrition rate hovered around 7-9%. Surprisingly, even after 15 years, the current rate remains about the same. They explore whether this issue is truly fixable and discuss the implications of attrition rates comparable to those in retail environments.

Bob emphasizes the importance of analyzing data beyond just averages to identify specific areas of concern. He points out that while some centers perform well, many still struggle with high turnover. They agree that rather than relying on superficial employee engagement tactics like pizza parties, contact centers should focus on improving the job itself and fostering trust between employees and supervisors.

Amas shares a personal anecdote about an employee who preferred working at McDonald's due to lower stress levels, prompting a conversation about the real factors affecting job satisfaction. The duo highlights the need for contact center leaders to rethink their approach to employee experience, advocating for genuine relationships and understanding the needs of their teams.

Bob suggests actionable steps for supervisors to build trust, including knowing employees' names, recognizing their strengths and areas for improvement, and understanding their personal passions. They conclude by stressing that relationships are key to employee retention and satisfaction.

Tune in to hear insights on creating a positive work environment in contact centers, and learn how to shift the focus from temporary perks to meaningful change.

In this episode, Amas and Bob dive into the ongoing struggle with knowledge management in contact centers—a problem that's been around since the Clinton administration. Despite years of technological advancements, knowledge management remains a significant challenge, with many customer service representatives still struggling to find the right information quickly.

Bob shares his optimism about the potential of generative AI to revolutionize knowledge management by aggregating and analyzing data from various sources. However, both Amas and Bob acknowledge that while AI could improve information retrieval, the real challenge lies in the human and process side of things. The discussion explores the conflict between relying on AI to provide information and trusting human agents to apply judgment in delivering that information to customers.

They emphasize that AI should be used to augment knowledge workers, not replace them, particularly in the tedious task of keeping content up-to-date. The episode wraps up with the idea that AI could help reduce the noise in the information agents must sift through, making their jobs easier and more effective.

Listeners are encouraged to understand AI's capabilities and integrate it into their contact center operations, focusing on how it can help manage and improve knowledge over time.

***Episode Highlights:**

1. **In-Person Events vs. Online Meetings:**
   - Amas and Bob discuss the value of attending in-person events in an era dominated by virtual meetings. They argue that face-to-face interactions foster deeper connections, networking, and learning opportunities that virtual settings can't fully replicate. 

2. **The Importance of Networking:**
   - Bob emphasizes the benefits of meeting new people at events, sharing experiences, and learning from peers. He suggests that these interactions can offer fresh perspectives and solutions to common challenges in the industry.

3. **The Power of Human Connection:**
   - Amas reflects on how he met Bob at an ICMI event in 2007 and how their professional relationship blossomed into a strong friendship. This wouldn't have been possible without attending an in-person event.

4. **Exciting Announcement - Live Podcast at ICMI Expo:**
   - Amas and Bob are taking their podcast live to the ICMI Contact Center Expo in Orlando, October 22-24. They will host four live shows from the expo floor, providing an opportunity for attendees to interact with them, ask questions, and participate in discussions.

5. **Engagement Opportunities at the Expo:**
   - Attendees can meet Amas and Bob, engage in debates, and share their thoughts on various topics discussed on the podcast. There will be opportunities to challenge the hosts and hear from special guests, including vendors and speakers.

6. **What to Expect from a Live Podcast:**
   - Bob explains that a live podcast involves real-time interaction with an audience, creating a dynamic environment that differs from their usual recording setup. They will host conversations, engage with attendees, and bring a lively atmosphere to the expo floor.

7. **Join Us in Orlando:**
   - Amas and Bob invite listeners to join them at the ICMI Expo in Orlando. They offer a discount for registration and encourage attendees to subscribe to the podcast for more updates and fun discussions.

**Call to Action:**
- Subscribe and listen to full episodes of "The Contact Center Show" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join Amas and Bob live at the ICMI Expo in Orlando for engaging discussions and networking opportunities. 

**Note:** For those interested in attending, visit the expo floor booth located at the back left side to meet the hosts and participate in the live shows!

In this episode of the Contact Center Show, co-hosts Bob Furness and Amas reconnect to discuss the evolving landscape of contact centers, focusing on the challenges faced by agents in today's complex work environment. They delve into the increasing isolation that many agents experience, particularly with the rise of remote and hybrid work models. Amas and Bob emphasize that while technology plays a significant role in the industry, it cannot replace the critical need for human connection and empathy in the workplace.

The conversation highlights the importance of maintaining strong relationships between managers and their teams. Bob points out that many contact center employees feel disconnected from their supervisors, which can lead to feelings of loneliness and disengagement. He stresses the need for managers to be proactive in fostering these connections, whether through regular in-person interactions or creative use of digital tools like Teams.

Amas adds that despite the convenience of digital channels, voice interactions remain crucial for building customer loyalty. The hosts argue that contact center leaders must prioritize the agent experience, ensuring that employees feel supported and valued, especially when dealing with challenging customer interactions. They also touch on the broader implications of workplace relationships, citing studies that show employees are more engaged and satisfied when they have meaningful connections at work.

The episode concludes with a call to action for leaders to rethink their approach to management in the contact center, prioritizing the human element in an increasingly digital world.