Explore every episode of the podcast Coaching for Leaders

Leanne Dzubinski: Glass Walls

Leanne Dzubinski is an expert on naming and eliminating gender bias in organizations. She is the Dean of Faculty Development and Global Education at Westmont College and a sought-after speaker, consultant, and expert witness who shares tools and strategies that enable women to thrive and organizations to improve their practices. She is the coauthor, along with Amy Diehl, of Glass Walls: Shattering the Six Gender Bias Barriers Still Holding Women Back at Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most leaders recognize that bias exists in the workplace for many underrepresented leadership groups, including women. In this conversation, Leanne and I explore how devaluation shows up and how leaders can do a better job at removing it from their teams and organizations.

Key Points

• Six bias barriers show up substantially when researching women in the workplace. One of them is devaluation.
• Office housework is a common way that women’s contributions become devalued. Leaders should be conscious of distributing this work to everyone and/or providing a reward structure for doing it.
• Diminishment includes pet names like “girl” and “young lady” that some use to refer to women. This includes removing titles of women in places where they appear for men. Leaders should consider asking how people want to be addressed.
• Benevolent sexism consists of seemingly chivalrous comments and behavior based on stereotypical assumptions about women. Leaders should let women decide what opportunities they participate in and avoid making decisions for them.
• Salary inequality is well documented in research. Salary transparency helps reduce this inequality, and salary reviews also help correct disparities.
• Leaders calling attention to injustice, even through rephrasing inappropriate language, sets the tone for a more supportive workplace.

Resources Mentioned

• Glass Walls: Shattering the Six Gender Bias Barriers Still Holding Women Back at Work by Leanne Dzubinski and Amy Diehl (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Support Women of Color, with Minda Harts (episode 506)
• The Power in Empowering Differences, with Ashley Brundage (episode 548)
• How to Address Bad Behavior, with Nilofer Merchant (episode 779)

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Caroline Webb: Leadership Intelligence

Caroline Webb is a leadership coach, economist, and author of How to Have a Good Day, which has been published in over sixty countries. She has been named one of the top 50 executive coaches in the world by Thinkers50 and is Senior Advisor on leadership to McKinsey & Company, where she was previously a Partner. She is the author of Leadership Intelligence: Science-Backed Strategies for Mastering 21 Everyday Management Challenges (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Leaders are often called on to repair relationships for the benefit of everybody. When that relationship is a key stakeholder, it’s especially important to approach that process intentionally. In this conversation, Caroline and I detail the most important steps to help that repair go better.

Key Points

• Many of us have power, even if it doesn’t feel like it. People with power find it hard to imagine others seeing things differently.
• Perspective-taking helps us open up the doors of possibility to collaborate better, even when our assumptions are wrong.
• A suspension bridge is a powerful analogy for a stakeholder relationship. Both sides must be strong and connected intentionally for the relationship to work.
• The first tower of the suspension bridge is the other party. What could be going on for them that would make their behavior make sense, without assuming bad intent?
• The second tower is you. Label what you’re feeling and get as specific as possible with your emotions.
• Strengthen the connection with cables through appreciation, involvement, and elevation.

To meet in the middle (the deck), these five steps will help in an interaction:

1. Intention: share your goal for the relationship.
2. Observation: describe what you factually observed without assumption of judgement.
3. Implication: explain why you care and what’s concerning you.
4. Invitation: ask their side of the story without making assumptions.
5. Collaboration: mutually problem-solve how to improve the situation.

Resources Mentioned

• Leadership Intelligence: Science-Backed Strategies for Mastering 21 Everyday Management Challenges by Caroline Webb (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Involve Stakeholders in Decisions, with Eric Pliner (episode 586)
• The Way to Get Noticed by Key Stakeholders, with Daphne E. Jones (episode 614)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)

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Robyn Davis: Exhibit Smarter

Robyn Davis has been advising exhibitors across industries and around the world on the strategies that work at trade shows since 2009. As an award-winning speaker, trainer, and consultant, Robyn is known for her fresh perspective and process-driven approach to exhibitor success. She is the author of Exhibit Smarter: A Step-by-Step Guide to Trade Show Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Almost every professional has been to a trade show. A lot of us have represented our organizations at conferences and shows. And many leaders have trade shows somewhere in their portfolios. In this conversation, Robyn and I explore how to help your team engage the right people at these events to ensure the investment you’ve made is worth it.

Key Points

• Prioritize strategic value over vanity metrics and activities. Tactics that get people into your booth aren’t necessarily the ones that line up with the needs of your organization.
• The decisions that organizations make about trade show activities are often heavily influenced by what’s been done in the past.

Use five steps to lead interactions inside your booth:

1. Welcome visitors with a targeted question that quickly identifies if a conversation is useful for both parties.
2. Create and use a qualification rubric for your team to quickly triage interactions.
3. Ensure smooth handoffs to the right party by making a personal introduction and relying on relevant details of whatever conversation has already taken place.
4. If the next step is an on-site meeting, make it concise (5-10 minutes) and follow up with a longer interaction later. If demoing a product or service, involve the visitor in the demonstration.
5. Close with a thank you, business card, brief review of the notes, next steps, and gracefully saying goodbye.

Resources Mentioned

• Exhibit Smarter: A Step-by-Step Guide to Trade Show Success by Robyn Davis (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Serve Others Through Marketing, with Seth Godin (episode 381)
• The Reason People Make Buying Decisions, with Marcus Collins (episode 664)
• How High Performers Land New Business, with Matt Dixon (episode 736)

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Priya Parker: The Art of Fighting

Priya Parker is a facilitator, strategic advisor, bestselling author of The Art of Gathering, and executive producer and host of the New York Times podcast, Together Apart. Trained in the field of conflict resolution, she has spent 20 years guiding leaders and groups through complicated conversations about community, identity, and vision at moments of transition. She is the author of the new book, The Art of Fighting: The Transformative Power of Conflict (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Often we assume that good leaders and good teams don’t fight. In this conversation, Priya tells us that, “Fighting is not the death of community. It is its lifeblood.” We explore how to turn conflict into progress.

Key Points

• Even experts who handle group conflict often find it challenging, fearful, and unsettling.
• Becoming a durable, sustainable group does not happen without a fight.
• One of the biggest myths that hold leaders back is that “good” people and “good” groups don’t fight.
• There’s a seniority caveat to conflict. Leaders often confuse what needs to be felt with what needs to be said.
• It’s a lie to believe that “if only” one thing hadn’t happened that conflict would not have occurred. If it wasn’t that, it would have been something else.
• Milestones, transitions, schedule changes, and celebrations are often triggering events for conflict. Instead of thinking, “This is the worst timing,” expect conflict at these times.

Resources Mentioned

• The Art of Fighting: The Transformative Power of Conflict by Priya Parker (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Create Meaningful Gatherings, with Priya Parker (episode 395)
• The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529)
• How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655)

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Sebastian Wernicke: Data Inspired

For over 20 years, Sebastian Wernicke has guided organizations around the world to harness the power of data and AI to achieve breakthrough transformation. His three acclaimed TED Talks have reached over 5 million viewers. He is the author of Data Inspired: Building an Organizational Culture of Inquiry for Lasting Transformation (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We all have more access to data than ever. That means we should be making better decisions than we ever have before, yes? If only it were that simple. In this conversation, Sebastian and I explore how you can actually use all that data to make better decisions.

Key Points

• Data initiatives don’t necessarily fail, but often do something worse: make your organization stay the same.
• Better data does not automatically result in better decisions. An organization also needs the cultural maturity to be swayed by the data.
• Nobody makes decisions that look like the logical decision-making processes we see in books. In addition, the emotions we put into decisions are actually critically helpful.
• During uncertainty, more data tends to make us more uncertain. Once we’ve decided something, we tend to discount contrary data.
• Decisions are rarely made entirely by one person and heavily influenced by the team or organization’s culture.
• Leaders can help integrate helpful data by saying things like, “I’m looking for data to tell me where I am wrong.”
• Bringing in structure such as written notes or memos before or at the start of meetings can help data be considered before we discount it.

Resources Mentioned

• Data Inspired: Building an Organizational Culture of Inquiry for Lasting Transformation (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Involve Stakeholders in Decisions, with Eric Pliner (episode 586)
• How to Change People’s Minds, with Michael McQueen (episode 676) – contradictory data not swaying people
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

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Stephanie Evergreen: Build a Data Culture

Stephanie Evergreen is a data visualization and design expert. She has trained future data nerds worldwide through keynotes and workshops, for Fortune 500 clients like MasterCard and Facebook and mission-aligned clients like the United Nations, the Boys and Girls Club, AARP, and The Alaska Native Tribal Health Consortium. She has three books and a popular blog on data visualization.

Data: we’ve all got tons of access to it these days. But perhaps almost too much – how do we actually make sense of it and then communicate clearly with it? In this conversation, Stephanie and I explore how a leader can best use data to make their message land.

Key Points

• Many of us are overwhelmed by access to data, but lots of leaders find that much of the data isn’t actionable for increasing performance.
• Because dashboards attempt to answer many questions, they often result in doing a poor job of highlighting a key message or insight.
• Instead of showing every data point you’ve ever collected, use smart formatting to highlight the single thing your team needs to know.
• Decide in advance what the key message of a slide, chart, or presentation should be. Then, design for that clear message.
• Answer the burning question that your audience is likely asking.
• Leaders set the tone for transparency with data that isn’t good news. Encourage and reward hearing the honest story to establish a culture where truth is shared and addressed.

Resources Mentioned

• Build a Data Culture by Stephanie Evergreen
• Why Data-Packed Meetings Miss the Mark (And What to Do About It) by Stephanie Evergreen

Related Episodes

• Performance Measurement That Gets Results, with Stacey Barr (episode 419)
• The Way to Influence Executives, with Nancy Duarte (episode 450)
• How to Respond When You Don’t Have Resources, with Laura West (episode 699)

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Today is the FINAL day to apply for the Coaching for Leaders Academy.

Are you at an inflection point? Apply to the Academy by the of the day today, Friday, September 11th.

Dave shares four words that detail what’s different about leaders who consistently get better – and even THRIVE – and those who don’t.

Are you at an inflection point? Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 11th.

Aiko Bethea: Anchored, Aligned, Accountable

Aiko Bethea is the Founder and CEO of RARE Coaching & Consulting, a leadership development firm that partners with Fortune 100 companies, nonprofits, and global organizations to build accountable, values-driven cultures. She is listed as #3 on the list of Top Executive Coaches of 2026 by the Industry Leader and has spent over a decade coaching C-suite leaders across industries, and served previously as deputy director at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. She is the author of Anchored, Aligned, Accountable: A Framework for Transcending BS and Transforming Our Lives and Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

I have seen so many activities over the years to help leaders clarify their values. I have built some of them myself. And most of them, including the ones I’ve built, miss a big question: what do those values actually mean? In this conversation, Aiko and I explore that question in detail to help us all do a better job of staying grounded.

Key Points

• In an era of information everywhere, it’s more challenging than ever to engage our inner awareness.
• An anchor keeps a ship in place during the storm. Our values do the same for us as leaders.
• Values aren’t just decorative. Simply naming a value doesn’t tell us much about what it means.
• Explore the behaviors that come out of labels we use for values. Those behaviors help us better align with others – and ourselves.
• A value label may mean one thing to one person and something entirely different to someone else. Curiosity will help you uncover what really matters to people.
• Beware naming values that are simply aspirational. Instead, zero in on what is actually true for you.

Resources Mentioned

• Anchored, Aligned, Accountable: A Framework for Transcending BS and Transforming Our Lives and Work by Aiko Bethea (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Leadership in the Midst of Chaos, with Jim Mattis (episode 440)
• How to Discover What Others Value, with Joe Hart (episode 616)
• The Way to Build Collective Power, with Ruchika T. Malhotra (episode 759)

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Academy alum Jen Quammen joins Dave to share how she prioritized showing up at her best when taking on a major leadership role.

Are you at an inflection point? Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 11th.

Pam Manfredo Curtis: The Origin of a Leader Pam Manfredo Curtis is an executive coach and Founder and President of Manfredo Curtis Associates. Her coaching approach involves mining the hearts and souls and childhoods of her CEO clients so they can reach their full potential—to lead authentically, to achieve extraordinary results, and to forge deep, emotional connections, both professionally and personally. She hosted SiriusXM’s Corner Office Confidential and is the author of The Origin of a Leader: Transforming Family Patterns into Leadership Power (Amazon, Bookshop)*. All of us get blocked, and when we do, our tendency is to set aside or sometimes to run away from our emotions. Today’s guest invites us to do the exact opposite so we can actually tap into our leadership power. In this conversation, Pam and I explore how to learn more about yourself and to use that insight for good. Key Points A significant predictor of how you show up as a leader is your childhood. As you learn about yourself, you realize that everyone else already knows these things about you. Create an emotional timeline by drawing a line from birth to today and highlighting the highs and lows of your life’s events. It’s significant what shows up on your timeline – and also how the length of the highs and lows relate to each other. When you understand how childhood impacts your leadership and who you are as a human being, you see how it affects an essential need as a leader: power. By creating a timeline, you will be motivated to change in positive ways, see connections you’ve never seen before, and have more empathy for yourself and others. Resources Mentioned The Origin of a Leader: Transforming Family Patterns into Leadership Power by Pam Manfredo Curtis (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442) Discover Who You Are, with Hortense le Gentil (episode 459) How to Discover Self-Awareness Through Enneagram, with Ian Morgan Cron (episode 605) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. Go beyond the podcast to find the right ideas and apply them with confidence inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Olivia Fox Cabane: The Charisma Myth Olivia Fox Cabane is one of the world’s leading authorities on the science of charisma and the bestselling author of The Charisma Myth, which has been translated into 27 languages. Previously Director of Innovative Leadership for Stanford StartX, Olivia has lectured on charisma, leadership, and innovation at Harvard, Yale, MIT, the Marine War College and the United Nations. She has been featured in The New York Times, The Economist, and The Wall Street Journal and has recently released the revised version of The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Charisma. We all notice leaders who’ve got it. Many of us wish we had more of it. Good news though – like so many leadership skills we talk about on this podcast, you can get better at it. In this conversation, Olivia and I explore how almost anyone can improve their charisma. Key Points Charisma is a skill that you can learn and practice. While some people have natural strengths for charisma more so than others, people are not simply born charismatic. Many just start young. You don’t have to be naturally outgoing. You can be a very charismatic introvert. Presence + Power + Warmth = Charisma Power is the “Can you move mountains for me?” question. Warmth is the “Would you want to move them for me?” question. Presence is the “Are you aware of which mountains I need moved?” question. A small amount of improvement can make a big difference on how you are perceived. Three quick tips to improve your charisma: Lower the intonation of your voice at the end of your sentences. Reduce how quickly and how often you nod. Pause for two full seconds before you speak. Resources Mentioned The Charisma Myth: How Anyone Can Master the Art and Science of Personal Magnetism by Olivia Fox Cabane (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Six Ways to Recover From a Bad First Impression, with John Corcoran (episode 169) The Way to Make Sense to Others, with Tom Henschel (episode 518) How to Make a Better Impression on Camera, with Mark Bowden (episode 643) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. Go beyond the podcast to find the right ideas and apply them with confidence in Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Academy alum Dev Baldwin joins Dave to share how he leveraged the power of learning from peers. Are you at an inflection point? Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 11th.

Simone Stolzoff: How to Not Know Simone Stolzoff is an author and journalist who explores big questions about work, meaning, and identity. A former design lead at the global innovation firm IDEO, his work has been featured in The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and on the TED stage. He is the author of How to Not Know: The Value of Uncertainty in a World that Demands Answers (Amazon, Bookshop)*. I’m not sure about you, but I very much dislike uncertainty. And yet, basically the job of leadership is to not only deal with it but to help others thrive in the midst of it. In this conversation, Simone and I explore how to build your tolerance for uncertainty so you can lead much more effectively. Key Points We love certainty and our tolerance for uncertainty is decreasing due to the internet, smartphones, and AI access. Organizations with higher uncertainty tolerance tend to be more innovative and adaptable. We assume unwavering confidence breeds credibility, when in fact, research shows that those who admit what they don’t know are perceived as more credible. Professional athletes have the same threshold for pain but a higher pain tolerance. We can develop a similar tolerance for uncertainty. Find your anchor points. By knowing the key boulders you can hang onto in a storm, you are vastly better able to weather uncertain times. Build to learn. Progress depends on uncertainty. Row through the fog. Maintain faith that you will discover the next step by continuing to row. Sometimes what we feel is most uncertain is actually more certain than we realize. Resources Mentioned How to Not Know: The Value of Uncertainty in a World that Demands Answers by Simone Stolzoff (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Lead Better Through Complexity, with Jennifer Garvey Berger (episode 613) Notice Disruption and Innovate Through It, with Steve Blank (episode 761) The Counterintuitive Secret to Creativity and Focus, with David Epstein (episode 789) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Neal Schore: The 25th Hour Neal Schore is the founder and CEO of 25th Hour Group, an executive coaching and leadership events firm. Previously, he served as the founder, president, and CEO of Triton Digital, a global technology, data, and services leader in the digital audio and podcast industry. He is the author of The 25th Hour: How to Thrive (And Gain Ridiculous Amounts of Time) By Getting Out of Your Own Way (Amazon, Bookshop)*. No productivity approach can negotiate with physics. How we manage time is really how we manage ourselves. In this conversation, Neal and I explore a key question to help us shift from ordinary to exceptional. Key Points Swirling shows up for all of us when we ruminate on an interaction in a way that’s not helpful. Most people don’t think to ask about others’ intent. The key question to shift our thinking: “What’s the intent?” Ordinary thinking goes with the flow. Exceptional thinking pauses and allows us to consider the intent behind the interaction. To free time each day, pause before responding in a complex situation and ask yourself, “What’s the intent?” This question becomes powerful when you can ask and answer yourself without needing to say it out loud. Resources Mentioned The 25th Hour: How to Thrive (And Gain Ridiculous Amounts of Time) By Getting Out of Your Own Way by Neal Schore (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590) How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655) How to Take Back Your Evenings, with Guy Winch (episode 783) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Jia Jiang: Easy Discipline Jia Jiang is an award-winning speaker, entrepreneur, and the bestselling author of Rejection Proof. His TED Talk is among the top 1% most viewed of all time, and he has spoken to over 400,000 people worldwide. He is also the creator of Rejection Therapy, a platform designed to help people overcome fear and build resilience, and is the author of Easy Discipline: An Unconventional Way to Achieve Ambitious Things (Amazon, Bookshop)*. No pain, no gain. We’ve all heard that before – and it’s true that one way to achieve is through a lot of pain. Good news: there are other ways, too. In this conversation, Jia and I explore how to harness the ambition you already have through easy discipline. Key Points Pain tolerance is admired and celebrated. When greatness comes through pain, our society cheers it. When greatness comes through loving work, we are suspicious. Hard discipline and easy discipline both produce results, but easy discipline does so with more joy and sustainability. Ambitious people often suffer from High Eyes, Low Hands Disease. Higher ambitions create higher expectations that make a gap seem harder to transcend. In the game of Catan, it’s not the lucky players that win; it’s the most active players. Professional learning follows the same pattern. The momentum loop is the practice of early action generating greater fuel for later action. Even wrong movements are almost always superior to standing still. Resources Mentioned Easy Discipline: An Unconventional Way to Achieve Ambitious Things by Jia Jiang (Amazon, Bookshop)* Jia Jiang’s speaking Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507) How to Get Out of a Rut, with Anne-Laure Le Cunff (episode 747) How to Help People Flourish, with Marcus Buckingham (episode 778) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Chris Bailey: Intentional Chris Bailey is an author and lecturer who explores the science behind living a more productive and intentional life. He has written hundreds of articles on the subject and is the bestselling author of The Productivity Project, Hyperfocus, and How to Calm Your Mind. His newest book is Intentional: How to Finish What You Start (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Starting is often a lot easier than finishing. Our mindsets and our tactics can make a big difference in how far we really go. In this conversation, Chris and I discuss the best ways to finish what we begin. Key Points Procrastination is triggered by six characteristics of aversion: boring, unpleasant, frustrating, far off in the future, unstructured, and/or meaningless. The more we activate the logical centers in our brain, the less aversion we run into. Almost everything can be more fun if we put the right structure around it. Gamification, countdown timers, and artificial deadlines can drive our behaviors in substantial ways. Make goals about others. Rather than simply “reading 10 pages,” shift to “reading ten pages to be a better mentor.” Most of us have a preference for either performance goals or learning goals. Identify which works better for you and for the people you lead. Define a target pace and map your progress against it. We often do this with organizational projects, but rarely for our own goals. Pair joyful tasks together with the ones that don’t bring joy as a means to keep you moving. Resources Mentioned Intentional: How to Finish What You Start by Chris Bailey (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376) How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507) Make Your Task List Work for You, with Liane Davey (episode 785) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Ludmila Praslova: The Canary Code Ludmila Praslova is a Professor of Industrial-Organizational Psychology at Vanguard University of Southern California and regularly writes for Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Psychology Today, and Forbes. She’s the recipient of the 2025 Talent Award from Thinker50 and has been named a LinkedIn Top Voice. She is the author of The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*. We’ve all seen career paths that sound like this: analyst 1, analyst 2, senior analyst, lead analyst, manager of analysts, etc. Those paths to leadership work for some people, but they don’t work for others. In this conversation, Ludmila and I explore how to create leadership paths that work for everyone. Key Points Canaries were used in coal mines because they were more sensitive to early indicators of problems – in a way that helped everyone. The same is often true for neurodivergent leaders in organizations. The “ideal leader” is a myth. If we are honest, no individual fits the ideal profile. Having different paths to leadership makes more sense in a complex world. Many of the best leaders are specialists in something. Instead of looking for “culture fit,” challenge yourself and your organization to do a “culture add.” Neurodiverse leaders can be less susceptible to bias and have higher levels of divergent thinking – huge benefits strengths for many organizations. In addition to people management, consider paths for leadership that focus strength and skill on system and process, strategy, expertise, though leadership, global leadership, and creative ideation. Making the workplace more accessible and equitable for one population almost always makes it better for everyone. Resources Mentioned The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work by Ludmilla Praslova (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes The Mindset Leaders Need to Address Burnout, with Christina Maslach (episode 608) The Neurodiversity Edge in Organizations, with Maureen Dunne (episode 694) How to Motivate Younger Employees, with David Yeager (episode 775) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Joanna Stern: I Am Not a Robot Joanna Stern is an Emmy Award-winning technology journalist who was previously the personal technology columnist at The Wall Street Journal. For many years, she has been one of the most recognizable and entertaining voices in consumer tech, and she just recently launched her own media company and YouTube channel called New Things. Her new book is I Am Not a Robot: My Year Using AI to Do (Almost) Everything (Amazon, Bookshop)*. What if you decided to go to AI first for virtually everything in your life? Joanna Stern decided to do exactly that and captured it all in her recent book. In this episode, we explore how those implications are showing up for a lot of us in the workplace. Key Points Customer service functions are one of many places where organizations are already using AI to supplement or replace work that people used to do. Some aspects of AI work are preferred by both customers and employees. For others, having people in the loop is essential. AI may eliminate some jobs and hiring. It also presents an opportunity to create work that is more interesting. For many aspects of work and research, AI is useful as a “first pass” that helps the human spend more time doing the things that humans do. The AI pushback is real and helpful. It allows us to grapple with how we use new technology and the best way for it to show up in our work and lives. Resources Mentioned I Am Not a Robot: My Year Using AI to Do (Almost) Everything by Joanna Stern (Amazon, Bookshop)* New Things by Joanna Stern Related Episodes Principles for Using AI at Work, with Ethan Mollick (episode 674) Becoming an AI-Savvy Leader, with David De Cremer (episode 710) Using AI to Make Networking Easier, with Ruth Gotian (episode 766) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Daniel Coyle: Flourish Daniel Coyle is the New York Times bestselling author of The Culture Code, which was named Best Business Book of the Year by Bloomberg, BookPal, and Business Insider. He has served as an advisor to many high-performing organizations, including the Navy SEALs, Microsoft, Google, and the Cleveland Guardians. His newest book is Flourish: The Art of Building Meaning, Joy, and Fulfillment (Amazon, Bookshop)*. When teams really thrive, it isn’t about luck or simply optimizing systems. Instead, it’s about intentionally creating spaces for connection, agency, and shared growth. In this conversation, Daniel and I discuss where to begin to help a team flourish. Key Points Life (and leadership) is treasure creation, not a treasure hunt. Flourishing environments encourage experimentation, agency, and even mistakes, allowing ownership and innovation to thrive. If leaders think like designers, using questions and constraints, they will more likely unlock people’s full potential. Simple acts such as little “thank you’s” build psychological safety and lay the foundation for flourishing groups. Some of the world’s greatest innovations emerged from environments that welcomed surprise, cross-pollination, and flexibility. Value the art of asking good questions over having all the answers. Resources Mentioned Flourish: The Art of Building Meaning, Joy, and Fulfillment by Daniel Coyle (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes What Innovative Leaders Do Differently, with Linda Hill (episode 774) How to Help People Flourish, with Marcus Buckingham (episode 778) The Counterintuitive Secret to Creativity and Focus, with David Epstein (episode 789) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

David Epstein: Inside the Box David Epstein is the author of the #1 New York Times bestseller Range and The Sports Gene, both of which have been translated into more than 30 languages. He was previously the host of Slate‘s popular “How To!” podcast and a science and investigative reporter at ProPublica. His TED talks have been viewed more than 12 million times. His newest book is also a New York Times bestseller: Inside the Box: How Constraints Make Us Better (Amazon, Bookshop)*. It seems like we should be the most focused, creative, and innovative when we are the freest to do whatever we want. Turns out, it’s pretty much the exact opposite. In this conversation, David and I discuss why constraints make all the difference. Key Points Myth: we are most creative and innovative when we are most free. In fact, it’s the opposite. Given complete freedom, we tend to follow the path of least resistance. The Einstellung effect: employing only familiar methods even if better ones are available. General Magic (the most important technology company that nobody’s ever heard of) had virtually no constraints and ultimately produced nothing. Write down hypotheses and make commitments visible before you begin. Give people agency in creating constraints. If your organization or team was being handed off to someone else tomorrow, what’s the first thing the new leader would change? Consider making that change now. To avoid over-indexing on constraints, ask this question: “Could I still surprise myself?” Resources Mentioned Inside the Box: How Constraints Make Us Better by David Epstein (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Transform Your Limitations Into Advantages, with Mark Barden (episode 207) Help Your Brain Learn, with Lisa Feldman Barrett (episode 513) Get People Reading What You’re Sending, with Todd Rogers (episode 666) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Leanne ten Brinke: Poisonous People Leanne ten Brinke is an Associate Professor at the University of British Columbia, where she directs the Truth and Trust Lab. Her research investigates trust, deception, and dark personality traits across diverse populations—from incarcerated individuals to hedge fund managers and politicians. She reveals how dark personality traits shape our institutions and relationships, while offering practical strategies to recognize and counteract their harmful influence. Her book is titled Poisonous People: How to Resist Them and Improve Your Life (Amazon, Bookshop)*. If you are a leader, you are going to deal with poisonous people. Sometimes they will show up as clients, sometimes your boss, sometimes your peers, and sometimes the people you manage. Regardless of where they show up, this conversation with Leanne will help you handle this tough dynamic. Key Points Dark traits exist on a spectrum. While only 1% of the population rises to a clinical level of psychopathology, 10-20% of the population has a dark personality profile. There are many more people with psychopathy per capita in senior management positions than in the general population. Poisonous people generally aren’t interested in shifting their personality. As such, you will not change them. Given that reality, aim to better manage the relationship. Establish clear boundaries with poisonous people and put things in writing you might normally assume. Dark personalities are really good at exploiting unspoken norms. Find ways to create win-wins with poisonous people. They don’t do well with trade-offs, because they don’t like to lose anything. Avoid face-to-face negotiations with them. Their charm and charisma will win you over in the moment. Text-based dialogue will help you objectively negotiate better. Use the carrot instead of the stick. Reward good behavior when it happens (just not by giving them power over others). Resources Mentioned Poisonous People: How to Resist Them and Improve Your Life by Leanne ten Brinke (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Handle a Boss Who’s a Jerk, with Tom Henschel (episode 164) How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635) How to Show Up Authentically in Tough Situations, with Andrew Brodsky (episode 727) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Chris Duffy: Humor Me Chris Duffy is an award-winning podcaster, comedian, and television writer. He hosts the podcast How to Be a Better Human and you can find his comedic TED talk, “How to find laughter anywhere” online. He is the author of Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy (Amazon, Bookshop)*. It sometimes seems like someone with a good sense of humor does everything a bit better. Perhaps leadership is no different – but it’s not about landing jokes. In this episode, Chris and I explore why everyday humor is all about paying attention and generosity. Key Points Humor might not make the list of top leadership competencies, but it helps you perform every other competency better. A good sense of humor is inherently generous. Effective humor isn’t landing the perfect joke or being the center of attention. It’s noticing the humor is everyday work and bravely calling attention to it. The first pillar of cultivating humor is simply being present. Start with times you are least present and most zoned out. Zero in with a “new bathroom” frame of mind. Celebrate the bad stuff and find humor in it. By doing so, you inherently help people appreciate excellence. Resources Mentioned Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy by Chris Duffy (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Engage With Humor, with David Nihill (episode 235) Get Better at Deep Listening, with Oscar Trimboli (episode 408) How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Phil Le-Brun: The Octopus Organization Phil Le-Brun is an executive in residence at Amazon Web Services and a former corporate VP and international CIO at the McDonald’s Corporation. He is a sought-after speaker and has been featured in Harvard Business Review, The Wall Street Journal, and The Guardian. He is the co-author with Jana Werner of The Octopus Organization: A Guide to Thriving in a World of Continuous Transformation (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Most of us have gone through some version of a reorg. A lot of leaders have also implemented their own reorgs. Sometimes they work. Many times, they don’t. In this conversation, Phil and I discuss what goes wrong with reorgs and how we can do better. Key Points Organizations traditionally looked like the tin man from The Wizard of Oz: perfectly planned, many interchangeable parts, not flexible. An octopus organization adapts, works independently to serve the larger whole, and is innately curious. A reorg that starts with an org chart misses the complex organic connections you are unlikely to fully understand. Prioritize structural stability while building internal flexibility. Nurture the complex informal human networks that deliver value. Be honest about objectives and communicate a reorg early. Engage people by starting with smaller-scale change. Clarify the problem to be solved instead of the structural “answer.” Resources Mentioned The Octopus Organization: A Guide to Thriving in a World of Continuous Transformation by Phil Le-Brun and Jana Werner (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Get the Ideal Team Player, with Patrick Lencioni (episode 301) How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson (episode 621) How to Help Employees Handle Tough Moments, with Anthony Klotz (episode 777) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Liane Davey: Thoughtload For the past 25 years, Liane Davey has researched and advised teams on how to achieve high performance. She is the author of You First and The Good Fight and is a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review. She is the author of the new book Thoughtload: Manage the Madness and Free Your Team to Do Great Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*. We all love to hate our task lists. However, we can do a lot better with just a bit of strategy. In this conversation, Liane and I explore how to make our task list work for us instead of against us. Key Points Often it’s not really the workload that’s crushing – it’s more so the thinking about all the workload. That’s what thoughtload is. The problem with a to-do list is that everything goes on it. Thus, to-do lists are terrible for managing your attention. Instead of one task list, keep a limited amount of tasks on three priority lists. Category 1 list: your most important outputs and outcomes. Category 2 list: what you do to help others achieve their most significant outcomes. Category 3 list: administrative stuff. Four questions determine what gets on your lists: Important (an activity that will add value to a key output or outcome)? Urgent (something with growing negative consequences if you wait)? Targeted (a task that no one can do as efficiently or effectively as you)? Essential (core to creating the critical value, not just a nice-to-have)? Resources Mentioned Thoughtload: Manage the Madness and Free Your Team to Do Great Work by Liane Davey (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes The Scientific Secrets of Daily Scheduling, with Daniel Pink (episode 332) Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431) How to Take Back Your Evenings, with Guy Winch (episode 783) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Eric Ries: Incorruptible Eric Ries is the creator of the Lean Startup method, and the author of the New York Times bestseller The Lean Startup, The Leader’s Guide, and The Startup Way. Over the last two decades, his ideas about continuous innovation, long-term thinking, governance, and market reform have reshaped company building and management practices. He is the author of Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great (Amazon, Bookshop)*. If you build a great organization, the predators will come. With the right principles in place, not only can you protect what you love, but help many people flourish because of it. In this conversation, Eric and I show you exactly where to start. Key Points Most leaders are one acquisition, one IPO, one board meeting away from seeing something they love turn into something they hate. If you build something great, they will come. The “they” are the predators who are willing to kill the golden goose. Financial gravity is the force no one controls but everyone obeys. Appreciating its realities and laws will help you build stronger. Rather than framing profit as good or bad, define profit as how you contribute to human flourishing. Harder is easier. Rather than viewing principles as a burden, the best leaders see principles as opportunities. Design the business model so the organization prospers only via mission attainment. Resources Mentioned Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great by Eric Ries (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641) Crafting the Modern Business Plan, with Seth Godin (episode 704) Notice Disruption and Innovate Through It, with Steve Blank (episode 761) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Guy Winch: Mind Over Grind Guy Winch is a psychologist and bestselling author who advocates for integrating the science of emotional health into our daily lives. His TED talks have attracted over 35 million views, and his books have been translated into more than 30 languages. He is co-host of the Ambie-nominated Dear Therapists podcast and the author of the book Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Some of our parents got to work in the morning, put in a full day, and then by dinner time, didn’t think about work or do it until the next morning. That’s not reality for a lot of us today, so in this conversation, Guy and I explore what you can do to take back your evenings. Key Points Most work stress isn’t experienced at work. Healthy thinking is intentional and leads us somewhere useful. Unhealthy thinking (rumination) isn’t intentional and tends to repeat the same script. It feels more like unpaid work. To interrupt rumination outside of work, first label it and then associate it with disgust, disdain, and annoyance. Treat it like you would a skunk sitting next to you on the couch. Rituals help our brains make a distinction between time to work and time to recover. Rituals are most powerful when they invoke one or more of our five senses to signal a shift to our brains. Often we think of relaxation and recovery the same way our grandparents did who often did more manual work. Work today tends to be more mental and emotional, so indexing on ways to engage physically during recovery times is helpful. Rather than just assuming that doing nothing, sitting on a beach, or seeing the sights is the best vacation, consider engaging in the things you love that you normally don’t get to do. Resources Mentioned Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life by Guy Winch (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431) What to Do With Your Feelings, with Lori Gottlieb (episode 438) How High Achievers Begin to Find Balance, with Michael Hyatt (episode 522) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Gustavo Razzetti: Forward Talk Gustavo Razzetti is a culture change instigator, speaker, and CEO of Fearless Culture, a culture design consultancy. He helps leaders build teams that talk about what matters—even when it’s uncomfortable–through his books and tools, including the Culture Design Canvas. He is the author of Forward Talk: The Bold New Method for Getting Teams Unstuck (Amazon, Bookshop)*. The beauty of a team is that we can get so much more done with collaboration. It also means that sometimes we surrender our responsibility to others. In this conversation, Gustavo and I explore what to do when a team gets stuck. Key Points Conversations are the foundation of collaboration. Without them, teams quickly build conversational debt. We don’t stay silent because we’re scared. Rather, we stay quiet because we surrender our responsibility to others. Many of us overestimate our courage. We believe that we’ll say something, but studies show that often we do not. Forward Talk accomplishes two things: (1) addresses the real issue and (2) focuses on the future. See information as an opportunity instead of an obstacle. Courage can begin with admitting what you don’t know. Perspective is the choice to share your views instead of surrendering your judgment to social pressure. Responsibility is a commitment to understand the systemic issues instead of entering into blame. Resources Mentioned Forward Talk: The Bold New Method for Getting Teams Unstuck by Gustavo Razzetti (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Getting Better at Internal Communication, with Roy Schwartz (episode 687) Help Your Team Coach Each Other, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 709) What Really Matters for Team Success, with Colin Fisher (episode 748) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Bonni Stachowiak: Teaching in Higher Ed Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide (Amazon, Bookshop)*. In this reflection episode, Bonni and I look back on recent past episodes and discuss questions, feedback, and insights that have surfaced from recent conversations. Key Points Dave responded to this question from Margaret Andrews: What does success look like for you? “You can have everything in life you want if you’ll just help enough other people get what they want.” -Zig Ziglar “Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal.” -Earl Nightingale Bonni responded to this question: What feedback have you received over the years about how your actions and behaviors impact others? Resources Mentioned To be of use by Marge Piercy Related Episodes How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen (episode 143) Six Questions Every Leader Should Ask Themselves, with Margaret Andrews (episode 750) How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens (episode 755) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Shirzad Chamine: Positive Intelligence Shirzad has been the CEO of the largest coach training organization in the world. He has lectured on Positive Intelligence at Stanford University and has trained faculty at Stanford and Yale business schools. He is the author of The New York Times bestseller Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours (Amazon, Bookshop)*. By overusing our strengths, they can become our weakness. It’s just one of the many ways that leaders self-sabotage. In this conversation, Shirzad and I explore how to shift from self-sabotage to self-mastery. Key Points Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them. -Henry David Thoreau We are all a mixed bag of Darth Vader (saboteur) and Jedi knight (sage). By overusing a strength, you turn it into a weakness. Rather than attempting to eliminate all our saboteurs, it’s more helpful to be intentional about quieting them down. The four most common saboteurs that show up for leaders are Controller, Stickler, Hyper Achiever, Hyper Rational. Sage perspective: Every outcome or circumstance can be turned into an opportunity. A 10-second brain shift can help quiet your mind and engage the sage. One way to do this is to rub your fingers together and notice the friction to get your mind out of autopilot. Resources Mentioned Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours by Shirzad Chamine (Amazon, Bookshop)* Saboteur Assessment Dave’s assessment results Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Tame Your Inner Critic, with Tara Mohr (episode 232) The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph (episode 734) How to See What’s Holding You Back, with Marty Dubin (episode 765) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Nilofer Merchart: Our Best Work Nilofer Merchant is ranked among the world’s top management thinkers by Thinkers50 and is the founder of The Intangible Labs, where she defines the leading indicators of modern work. She’s launched more than 100 products totaling $18B in revenue, and her TED Talk, Sitting Is the Smoking of Our Generation, ranks in the top 10% of all TED Talks. She is the author of Our Best Work: Break Free from the 24 Invisible Norms That Limit Us (Amazon, Bookshop)*. When bad behavior happens in an organization, it’s the job of the leader to address it. In this conversation, Nilofer and I explore the strategies and tactics that will help you do this with clarity and effectiveness. Key Points Bad behavior isn’t just “bad apples” – it’s also the organizational norms of “the barrel” that reinforce these behaviors. Most management norms are not persuasive; they are persistent. Begin by getting clarity on what’s acceptable and what’s not. Interrupt behavior without escalation. Consider phrases like, “Ouch,” or “I don’t know if you mean to…” or, “Did you intend that to be hurtful?” Culture is not defined by words on the wall—­it’s defined by what happens when someone crosses the line. Ask everyone to enforce norms, not just the person who was harmed. Resources Mentioned Our Best Work: Break Free from the 24 Invisible Norms That Limit Us by Nilofer Merchant (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes The Way to Be More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 458) How to Respond Better When Challenged, with Dolly Chugh (episode 615) Being Nice May Not Be Kind, with Graham Allcott (episode 767) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Marcus Buckingham: Design Love In Marcus Buckingham is the author of two of the best-selling business books of all time and has three of Harvard Business Review’s most circulated, industry-changing cover articles. After spending two decades studying excellence at the Gallup Organization and co-creating the StrengthsFinder tool, he built his own Coaching + Education firm and has been a prominent researcher on strengths, love, and leadership at work. He is the author of Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Most everyone who listens to this podcast wants to go way beyond just hitting numbers and achieving goals. In addition to that, we want so deeply to see the people the work with flourish in their careers. In this conversation, Marcus and I explore the sequence of five feelings that make this work – and why a lot of it comes down to love. Key Points Love dies, not from being killed - but from forgetting and neglect. The difference is massive in what we give a top rating to and everything else. Love is the deep and unwavering commitment to the flourishing of a human. Shift from leaders making decisions to leaders making experiences. The five feelings follow this sequence: Control Harmony Significance Warmth of others Growth Resources Mentioned Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business by Marcus Buckingham (Amazon, Bookshop)* Design Love In Lovethat.com Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Lead Top-Line Growth, with Tim Sanders (episode 299) Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings (episode 692) Clarifying Values for a Workplace People Love, with Anne Chow (episode 712) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Anthony Klotz: Jolted Anthony Klotz is an organizational psychologist and Professor of Management at the UCL School of Management. He is the person who both predicted and coined the term “The Great Resignation,” and his groundbreaking research on quitting, work design, and employee performance has made him a leading voice on the future of work. He is the author of Jolted: Why We Quit, When to Stay, and Why It Matters (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Most of us have attempted to support an employee dealing with a tough career moment. Not all the time, but certainly sometimes, we see those moments coming. When an employee is dealing with a big jolt – or about to – this conversation with Anthony will show you how to help. Key Points Jolts have an outsized influence on people’s overall relationship with their work. Managers play a deciding role in how people respond to jolts and are in the best position to insulate the negative effects and amplify the positive effects. Managers can often anticipate and predict jolts to employees. The plans leaders have often become the jolts that others experience. If people can make sense of a jolting event, they are better able to deal with it constructively. The perception of how fair an event is and how fair the process was leading up to the event massively impacts how people perceive it. A clear explanation of why change is happening and what it means can substantially minimize the negative effects of career jolts. The tendency for organizations to delay bad news often is counterproductive to helping managers and employees navigate jolts. Partnership with others (managers, friends, family members) helps most of us better process what we might otherwise attempt to do alone. Resources Mentioned Jolted: Why We Quit, When to Stay, and Why It Matters (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Anthony Klotz Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571) How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607) Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems, with Elizabeth Lotardo (episode 764) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Neri Karra Sillaman: Pioneers Neri Karra Sillaman is a refugee-turned-entrepreneur, academic, and author whose work focuses on the importance of resilience, purpose, and vision in business and in life. She is the recipient of the Thinkers50 Radar Award, an entrepreneurship expert at the University of Oxford, and the founder of Neri Karra, a global luxury leather goods brand. She is the author of Pioneers: 8 Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs (Amazon, Bookshop)*. We all know that the right connections can help in our careers, but how do we actually get more intentional about forging the connections that will be most meaningful and sustainable? In this conversation, Neri and I explore the key lessons from immigrant entrepreneurs and how their successes can help us all thrive. Key Points Robins and titmice have vastly different outcomes because of their divergent abilities for flocking. Social capital is critical for success. Diversity brings many strengths – and it also introduces new challenges for connection. We can’t as easily rely on connections through traditional cultures or experiences. All of us have the ability to forge connections based on value. This is perhaps the most powerful homophily tie and accessible to everyone. The most successful immigrant entrepreneurs don’t rely on connections happening automatically and also don’t assume that relationships will be static. Focus on what unites you with others. Strengthen ties with other networks to avoid the risk of communities that are too insular. Be proactive and generous in sharing information and ideas to support others. Resources Mentioned Pioneers: 8 Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs by Neri Karra Sillaman (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Three People Who Will Help You Grow, with Andrew C.M. Cooper (episode 700) The Way to Build Collective Power, with Ruchika T. Malhotra (episode 759) Using AI to Make Networking Easier, with Ruth Gotian (episode 766) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

David Yeager: 10 to 25 David Yeager is a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin and the cofounder of the Texas Behavioral Science and Policy Institute. He is best known for his research conducted with Carol Dweck, Angela Duckworth, and Greg Walton on short but powerful interventions that influence adolescent behaviors such as motivation, engagement, healthy eating, bullying, stress, mental health, and more. He is the author of 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Older generations have been complaining about younger generations for all of recorded history. Today is no different, and I often hear how leaders are struggling with motivating their younger employees. In this conversation, David and I explore the most recent research and practice for what actually works. Key Points Older generations have been complaining about younger generations for all of recorded history. Often, our complaints are the result of our own past experiences. Many leaders experience the mentor’s dilemma: being nice and putting up with poor performance, or being critical and demanding higher performance. Status and respect for a young person are as critical as food and sleep to a baby. When satisfied, they can open up much better motivation and behavior. The mentor mindset embraces both high standards and high support for the young person you wish to motivate. Because this is a mindset, you can absolutely get better at it. When giving feedback to a young person, acknowledge the high standard you are setting and also tell the young person that you believe they can meet that standard. Young people have often experienced a lot of “enforcing” behavior from parents, teachers, and coaches. They assume this in the workplace if you don’t make a point to say otherwise. Resources Mentioned 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People by David Yeager (Amazon, Bookshop)* The Power of Mindset (Masterclass) Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Challenge Directly and Care Personally, with Kim Scott (episode 302) How to Reduce Drama With Kids, with Tina Payne Bryson (episode 310) How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Are you at an inflection point in your leadership? The Coaching for Leaders Academy helps leaders thrive at key inflection points. Apply to the Academy by Friday, March 20th. In this episode, Dave shares the five things that he sees most commonly get in leaders’ ways: Not asking for help. Assuming knowledge drives behavior. Setting the tactical bar too high. Feeling worse before feeling better. Not noticing any improvement.

Linda Hill: Genius at Scale Linda Hill is the Wallace Brett Donham Professor of Business Administration and Faculty Chair of the Leadership Initiative at Harvard Business School. Globally recognized as a top leadership and innovation expert, Linda has been named by Thinkers50 as one of the world’s top five management thinkers. She is the co-author, along with Emily Tedards and Jason Wild, of Genius at Scale: How Great Leaders Drive Innovation (Amazon, Bookshop)* We all want to think of ourselves as innovative, but it’s often not easy to know exactly what that means in practice. In this conversation, Linda and I explore what her research shows that leaders do to drive innovation successfully – and how each of us can get just a bit better. Key Points Rather than coming up with a vision and asking people to follow it, innovation is about creating the culture and capabilities to create the future together. Innovation leadership shows up in three ways within organizations: the Architects, the Bridge Builders, and the Catalysts. Instead of setting the stage for themselves, innovative leaders set the stage for others. Often, we view horizontal relationships through the lens of organizational politics. The most effective innovation leaders view these relationships as leadership opportunities. Traditional team structures are a starting point, but not an ending point. Leaders at Mastercard, Pfizer, and Cleveland Clinic all brought in team members from both inside and outside the organization. Rather than thinking about a decision as final, it’s helpful for innovation leaders to frame it as a “working hypothesis.” Resources Mentioned Genius at Scale: How Great Leaders Drive Innovation by Linda Hill, Emily Tedards, and Jason Wild (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470) The Way Innovators Get Traction, with Tendayi Viki (episode 512) Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Academy alum Marisol Bello of The Housing Narrative Lab joins Dave to share how she made the shift from command and control to serve and support. Are you at an inflection point? Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy are open until Friday, March 20th. Visit the Coaching for Leaders Academy page to apply.

Nir Eyal: Beyond Belief Nir Eyal writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, technology, and business. He is the author of two bestselling books, Hooked and Indistractable, selling more than a million copies and translated in over 30 languages. He is the author of the new book, Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Most of us recognize that a huge part of what motivates us – or not – is our own thinking. In this conversation, Nir and I explore where our beliefs get in the way and how we can align them just a bit to help us move forward. Key Points A sentence starting with “I am…” can be among the most dangerous in any language. Often, our beliefs limit us. Belief is the foundation of the motivation triangle that includes benefit and behavior. Yet, we often overlook beliefs. Curt Richter’s study of rats in the 1950s shows how an animal’s belief system can massively influence its behavior. The real question isn’t “Is this belief true?” but rather, “Does this belief serve me?” You can choose beliefs based on usefulness, not certainty. Difficulty may mean we are not cut out for something, but it might also be evidence of growth. Too often, we quit too soon. Progress comes from consistent action, not perfect plans. Resources Mentioned Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Nir Eyal. Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550) How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607) How to Better Manage Your Emotions, with Ethan Kross (episode 719) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Academy alum Bill Mayo joins Dave to share how he improved his listening skills -- both at work and at home. Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy are open until Friday, March 20th. Visit the Coaching for Leaders Academy page to apply.

Rebecca Hinds: Your Best Meeting Ever Rebecca Hinds is a leading expert on organizational behavior and the future of work. She founded and led the Work Innovation Lab at Asana and the Work AI Institute at Glean, where she partners with leading experts to help organizations transform their work with AI. She is the author of Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Considering the amount of time we all spend in meetings, it’s odd that most organizations do so little to measure meeting results. If that’s sounding familiar, this conversation between Rebecca and me will show you exactly how to get started. Key Points Metrics that only measure the costs of meetings (dollars and time) can be useful, but rarely capture the full picture. Use Return on Time Invested (ROTI) anonymously to survey attendees to determine if a meeting was a good use of time. Also ask, “What would it take for you to improve your rating by one point?” Survey sparingly to avoid survey fatigue. Bringing in a survey 10% of the time is a benchmark to start from. If the amount of time in meetings vastly exceeds 10 hours a week, there’s likely an opportunity to scale back or redefine the work before or after meetings to use time better. Equal speaking time in meetings is a key indicator of team performance. Be transparent with employees about any technology you use to capture data. Punctuality and attendance rate are indicators of how valued meetings are for people. Resources Mentioned Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done by Rebecca Hinds (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358) Moving Towards Meetings of Significance, with Seth Godin (episode 632) How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Lily Zheng, Fixing Fairness Lily Zheng is a sought-after speaker, strategist, and organizational consultant who specializes in hands-on systemic change to turn positive intentions into positive outcomes for workplaces and everyone in them. A dedicated changemaker and advocate, Lily has had their work published in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR. They are the author of Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All (Amazon, Bookshop)*. When it comes to fairness in the workplace, our society is quick to zero in on what divides us. Yet, there is broad agreement across all demographics on many key principles. In this conversation, Lily and I explore how leaders can influence the system to better work for everyone. Key Points Many of us assume that fewer people support the value of diversity than actually do. When asked, 82% of people support pro-diversity statements. The most popular/traditional approaches to fixing fairness in the workplace tend to be the least effective. Our tendency is to focus on the behavior of individuals, when in fact organizational systems have the most significant impact on fairness. When considering a fairness initiative or intervention, begin with the practice of understanding and storytelling, just like many change initiatives. Resist the temptation to check boxes with “quick fixes” such as simply bringing in a speaker or hosting a one-time event. This rarely helps in any sustainable way and sometimes worsens existing dynamics. If you have a seat at the leadership table, make the case for thoughtful design and involvement of stakeholders at all points in the process, just as many effective organizations do on any strategic change initiative. Resources Mentioned Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All by Lily Zheng (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Supporting Return to Work After Maternity Leave, with Danna Greenberg (episode 639) The Power of Unlearning Silence, with Elaine Lin Hering (episode 678) How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens (episode 755) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Phil Gilbert: Irresistible Change Phil Gilbert is best known for leading IBM's 21st-century transformation as their General Manager of Design. The transformation became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary film The Loop, and feature articles in the New York Times and Fortune Magazine. He is the author of Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*. We’ve all been through mandated change initiatives more times than we can count. But what if change wasn’t a mandate, but an offer – or even an invitation? In this conversation, Phil and I explore how to make change irresistible. Key Points Change should be regarded as a high-value-add product. Don’t mandate change. Offer change. Your goal is sustained cultural adoption, not improving immediate competency. Start small, but cover all your bases on a reduced scale. Make a great cupcake instead of a mediocre wedding cake. People buy brands, not products. Branding change allows you to define the values and message that goes with it. Resources Mentioned Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success by Phil Gilbert (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571) Where Senior Leaders Can Better Support Middle Managers, with Emily Field (episode 650) How to Lead Organizational Change, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 740) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Charles Duhigg: Supercommunicators Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative journalist and the author of The Power of Habit and Smarter Faster Better. He is a winner of the National Academies of Sciences, National Journalism, and George Polk awards. He writes for The New Yorker and other publications and is the author of Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection (Amazon, Bookshop)*. A lot of us grew up in a world where most of our relationships started in person. That means many of us are beautifully equipped for a world that no longer exists. In this conversation, Charles and I discuss how to get better at connecting in a remote-first world. Key Points When the telephone first became popular, people had to learn how to communicate with it. We’re at a similar inflection point with digital communication. We all have three kinds of conversations: (1) What’s this really about? (practical/decision-making), (2) How do we feel? (emotional), and (3) Who are we? (identity). Many of us tend to default to practical/decision-making conversations online and miss conversations about emotion and identity. Ask questions that invite an emotional or identity response. Instead of, “Where do you live?” consider a shift like, “What do you love about where you live?” Notice when people bring elements into a conversation that aren’t related to the topic. These clues, especially online, can point to entry points for emotional connection. Supercommunicators pay just a bit more attention to how people communicate than the rest of us. A slight shift can make a big difference. Resources Mentioned Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection by Charles Duhigg (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes The Way to Get People Talking, with Andrew Warner (episode 560) How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721) How to Show Up Authentically in Tough Situations, with Andrew Brodsky (episode 727) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

JP Elliott: Future of HR JP Elliott has decades of experience as a Talent and HR executive at companies like DICK'S Sporting Goods, McAfee, and Lenovo. He’s seen the challenges HR professionals face in growing their careers and increasing their impact. He is the host of the Future of HR podcast and on a mission to help HR professionals increase their business impact and accelerate their careers. Leadership looks a little different if you head up a support role: human resources, IT, marketing, or finance. Often, we hear the term “business partner” used to describe what these leaders should be aiming for. In this conversation, JP and I explore how to shift from simply a “business partner” to a value creator. Key Points You're not just an HR leader. You're a business leader with HR expertise. Think like a CEO even if you’re in HR. Do this to be moving beyond an execution-only mindset. Design talent strategies based on the future, not on the past. Build systems that reward outcomes, not bureaucracy. Build talent strategies that differentiate your business. Forecast leadership needs 3-5 years out and build a pipeline for critical roles. Four questions that CEOs are asking: Are we focused on the right strategic imperatives? Are we operating effectively and efficiently? Are we optimizing our business model to create competitive advantage? Do we have a plan for sustainable and profitable growth? Resources Mentioned Future of HR podcast by JP Elliott Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Start Managing Up, with Tom Henschel (episode 433) How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612) The Mindset to Help Your Organization Grow, with Tiffani Bova (episode 633) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Graham Allcott: KIND Graham Allcott is an author, speaker, entrepreneur, and the founder of Think Productive, a leading provider of training and consultancy. He is the author of multiple books, including the bestseller How to Be a Productivity Ninja and his latest book, KIND: The Quiet Power of Kindness at Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*. “Nice” means telling people what they want to hear. “Kind” means telling them what they need to hear. The best leaders are kind. In this conversation, Graham and I explore how we can do a better job of following through. Key Points “Nice” means telling people what they want to hear, whereas “kind” means telling them what they need to hear. Kindness is both concern for others and concern for self. Just like with salted caramel, it’s best with the right balance. Leaders often do better articulating vision and values than they do with getting clear on expectations of value each person should provide. Being clear is an act of kindness in itself because it drives psychological safety. Use a personal mantra as a concise and powerful way to consistently remind people about what’s most important. Invite others to “give the last 20%” in feedback to uncover areas where clarity would help. Resources Mentioned KIND: The Quiet Power of Kindness at Work by Graham Allcott (Amazon, Bookshop)* Rev Up for the Week (Graham’s newsletter) Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306) How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404) How to Give Feedback, with Russ Laraway (episode 583) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Ruth Gotian: Networking in the Age of AI Ruth Gotian is the former Chief Learning Officer and Associate Professor of Education in Anaesthesiology at Weill Cornell Medicine. Thinkers50 has ranked her the #1 emerging management thinker in the world, and she's a top LinkedIn voice in mentoring. She's the author of The Success Factor and, with Andy Lopata, The Financial Times Guide to Mentoring. Most of us recognize the value of building a better network, but we also know the time and dedication it takes. In this conversation, Ruth and I explore how we can use AI tools to do some of the administrative legwork so that we can spend more time on the real relationship-building. Key Points McKinsey reports that since the pandemic, most people’s networks have shrunk or stalled. Consider the 90/9/1 rule: 90% of people lurk in online communities, 9% interact somewhat regularly, 1% post and lead the conversation. Use AI to enhance, not replace, your communications. Invite AI to do the administrative legwork (i.e. brainstorming, proofreading) so you focus on the human aspects. Ask AI to analyze speaker and attendee lists in advance at conferences in the context of your goals. Consider being the person that puts together an in-person dinner or gathering at a conference. Use AI to help you prep questions and discover the best people to invite. Ask AI to help complete your LinkedIn profile. An All-Star LinkedIn profile makes it substantially more likely that you’ll get surfaced to others. Resources Mentioned Networking in the Age of AI by Ruth Gotian Related Episodes How to Grow Your Professional Network, with Tom Henschel* (episode 279) How to Build a Network While Still Doing Everything Else, with Ruth Gotian* (episode 591) The Key Elements of a Powerful Personal Brand, with Goldie Chan* (episode 757) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Marty Dubin: Blindspotting Martin Dubin is a clinical psychologist, serial entrepreneur, business coach, and adviser to C-suite executives and Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. He has founded several companies, including a multimillion-dollar health-care company where he also served as CEO. He is the author of Blindspotting: How to See What’s Holding You Back as a Leader (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Whenever I ask leaders, “What’s getting in the way of you moving forward?” the most common answer I hear is, “Myself.” In this episode, Marty and I explore what’s likely holding you back and how you can take the first steps to get traction. Key Points Many leaders don’t recognize the need for change and succumb to an identity blindspot. You don’t have to change your identity, but there’s a mismatch between role and identity, that’s a major problem. Shifting your identity is not changing who you are. Identities help us to sort through people and situations so we know who we are in relation to them. An identity that many have worked before can get in the way today. Common ones are: imposter, independent thinker, rule follower, unworthy, entitled, rebel, and peacemaker. Look back through your calendar over the past three months and determine how well your activities match up with the identity your role demands. Embody the new identity you are aiming to shift to, even if you’re not yet feeling it. Resources Mentioned Blindspotting: How to See What’s Holding You Back as a Leader by Marty Dubin (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Six Questions Every Leader Should Ask Themselves, with Margaret Andrews (episode 750) How to See What Others Miss, with Kirstin Ferguson (episode 758) Show Up Better, Faster, with Claude Silver (episode 762) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Elizabeth Lotardo: Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems for Them Elizabeth Lotardo is a consultant, writer, and online instructor who helps organizations drive emotional engagement. Elizabeth writes for Harvard Business Review, is a Top Voice on LinkedIn, and the author of Leading Yourself: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have. She’s also the author of the Harvard Business Review article, Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems for Them. Jumping in to solve problems feels like we’re doing important work. The issue is that leaders need to be enabling work – both for scale and to grow the skills of others. In this conversation, Elizabeth and I detailed how to get out of the trap of solving your team’s problems for them. Key Points Jumping in to solve a problem feels good in the moment for both parties, but creates long-term obstacles. The other extreme, asking people to only come with solutions, often shuts down learning for both parties. Shifting a habit of solving your team’s problems will feel awkward at first – both for your team and you. Rather than solving the problem for them, help remove the obstacle. Support doesn’t just have to come from the manager. Often, looking at the situation together will help surface what kind of support would actually help. We often assume that people are coming to us for answers. Sometimes, they just need to be heard. Five questions that will help your team step up: What have you tried? What–or who–is getting in the way of tackling this? What support do you need? What would you do if you were in my seat? Is there anything else I should know? Resources Mentioned Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems for Them by Elizabeth Lotardo Leading Yourself: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have by Elizabeth Lotardo (Amazon, Bookshop)* Related Episodes The Way to Stop Rescuing People From Their Problems, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 284) Where Senior Leaders Can Better Support Middle Managers, with Emily Field (episode 650) The Key Norm of a High-Performing Team, with Vanessa Druskat (episode 753) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Eileen Collins: Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars Colonel Eileen M. Collins, USAF (retired), earned a place in history as the first American woman to pilot, and later to command, a space mission. She flew on the space shuttle four times, twice as commander – including the 2005 “return to flight” mission after the tragic Columbia accident. She is the subject of the documentary movie Spacewoman and author of the book Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission (Amazon, Bookshop)*. We all have times in our careers where all eyes are on us. In this conversation, Eileen and I explore the critical moments of her career and how she stayed grounded while soaring among the stars. Key Points Until we are tested, we don’t know what we are capable of. Nerves creep in at times for all of us. When they do, it’s helpful to think about representing your role instead of representing yourself. When decisions become difficult, always come back to, “What’s the mission?” Train for the skill, not for the task. During high-stakes times, remember your family and personal life. They will help you stay grounded. Resources Mentioned Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission by Eileen Collins (Amazon, Bookshop)* Spacewoman documentary, featuring Eileen Collins Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567) The Way to Handle Q&A, with Matt Abrahams (episode 681) How to Start the Top Job, with Scott Keller (episode 752) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.