Explore every episode of the podcast CMO Therapy

Ever feel like marketing success is just about doing more - more channels, more activity, more noise? In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by the brilliant Lauren Berkemeyer, CMO at YuLife, to unpack why that "boil the ocean" approach is quietly wrecking budgets, trust and focus across marketing teams everywhere.

They get into:

• Why high-volume, low-relevance outreach is actively damaging your funnel (the stats are brutal: 73% of B2B buyers avoid suppliers sending irrelevant outreach and 81% straight-up ignore generic messaging)

• How to use AI for account intelligence without losing the human touch that builds real trust

• Why patience, not speed, might be your most underrated sales and marketing weapon

• And why so few marketers actually know their ICP and what that's costing them

As Lauren puts it: "One in four are your real trailblazers... those are who I want to find."

If you're ready to trade spray-and-pray for precision, relevance and a much healthier funnel, this one's for you.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Hiring marketing talent has always been hard, but right now it feels like a whole new level of chaos.
In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Conor Coughlan, CMO at Armis, to unpack the slightly painful reality of finding genuinely brilliant marketers in an AI-driven world. Because let’s be honest, everyone looks polished on paper now. CVs are sharper, applications are slicker and AI can make almost anyone sound like they know exactly what they’re doing.
Conor shares what he’s seeing first-hand while rebuilding a SaaS marketing team, including the sheer volume of applications, the rise of AI-polished CVs, and why traditional screening methods are starting to break. He also gets into the practical stuff: how to write clearer job descriptions, why reference checks still matter, how to test for real capability and why grit, curiosity and attitude can be just as important as experience.
As Conor puts it, AI tools are amazing, “but my God, they can put lipstick on a pig.”
If you’re hiring, growing a team, or trying not to make an expensive mistake, this one is absolutely worth a listen.lucyvheavens@gmail.com. Press tab to insert.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

AI has well and truly landed in marketing teams, and yes, it can be brilliant. It can speed things up, sharpen ideas and help us get more from the content we already have. But it has also unleashed a wave of bland, samey, beige content that sounds suspiciously like… everyone else.
In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Wade Coleman, Head of Brand and Content Strategy at Fiserv, to talk about the AI content identity crisis facing marketing leaders right now. They get into why so much AI-generated content feels soulless, where AI is genuinely useful, where it needs a firm “absolutely not” and why strong brand voice, audience understanding and human judgement matter more than ever.
As Wade puts it: “ChatGPT is a shortcut to sounding like everyone else.”
If you’re a CMO or marketing leader trying to use AI without quietly murdering your brand voice, this one’s for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy meets with the brilliant Sinead Willis for a very honest conversation about the messy reality of the modern CMO. Because sometimes the role you’re sold in the interview process and the role you actually walk into are two very different things.

Together, they explore why so many senior marketers end up in businesses that say they want strategic marketing leadership, but don’t actually create the conditions for it to work. They get into red flags, due diligence, broken systems, moving goalposts, and the difference between a role that stretches you and one that slowly grinds you down.

They also unpack why communication matters so much at this level, because being good at marketing is one thing, but being able to hold your own in rooms full of strong opinions is another.

As Sinead puts it, “They’re not stretching, they’re basically eroding.”

If that hits a nerve, this episode is for you.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Being a marketing leader in a big brand is one thing… but stepping into a startup? That’s a completely different sport. In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Sharon Hergarty, who’s done both - from global giants like Samsung and the BBC to getting properly hands-on as a fractional CMO in a startup where you’re essentially the entire marketing function.
Together they unpack what actually transfers (the principles), what needs to be unlearned (hello, endless process and over-engineering) and why decision-making suddenly feels a lot more personal when there’s nowhere to hide. They also get into the reality of building without infrastructure, staying focused when everything feels urgent and how your network becomes your secret weapon when the “team” is… well… you.
As Sharon puts it,“You can’t optimise yourself into oblivion… sometimes you’ve just got to try stuff and see what happens.”
If you’re navigating the shift between big brand muscle and startup hustle, this episode is packed with honest, practical insights you’ll actually use.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with the brilliant Mel Barfield, Managing Partner and Brand Voice Lead at Copy or Die, to talk about why tone of voice still matters massively… especially now AI can produce polished content in seconds.
We get into why tone of voice is not just a nice little brand exercise or a page buried in the guidelines, but a real leadership choice that shapes trust, consistency and how your business actually shows up. Mel shares why so many brands end up sounding the same, where tone-of-voice work usually falls apart and why implementation matters just as much as the strategy itself.
We also dig into the growing tension between speed and quality in the age of AI. How do you use AI without letting your brand voice get replaced by bland, robotic beige-ness?
As Mel puts it: “The language that you use is so important. It can make trust and it can break trust.”
If you care about brand, credibility and sounding like an actual human, this one’s for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Lucas Bergmans (ex Wise, Moneysupermarket, Cazoo, Heineken, Britvic) to get into one of the most important and most misunderstood relationships in B2B marketing: the one between the CMO and the founder or CEO. It can be energising, messy, brilliant and maddening in equal measure and when it works, it changes everything.
Together, they unpack the patterns marketing leaders come up against time and time again in founder-led businesses: big vision, strong opinions, fast decisions, deep customer instinct and the occasional tension over who really knows best when it comes to marketing. They talk about how trust gets built, how CMOs can bring structure without killing momentum, when to challenge, when to lean in and why credibility at the top comes from commercial thinking, customer understanding and evidence, not just good ideas.
As Lucas says, “data takes opinions off the table” and in these relationships, that matters. Because the fastest way to move from friction to progress is getting out of opinion tennis and into something real.

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with expert marketing leader and Brand & Marketing Director at Zego, Ingrid Sierra, to unpack one of the toughest challenges in B2B marketing: what really happens after the contract is signed.
Because let’s be honest… once the high-fives fade and onboarding is done, most customers aren’t thinking about you at all.
So why is retention so hard, especially in industries where interaction is low and pricing often wins the deal? And why won’t loyalty schemes and “just checking in” emails save you?
Lucy and Ingrid dive into the messy middle between onboarding and renewal, from NPS drop-offs and usage gaps to gamification, trust-building and showing up in the moments that actually matter.
As Ingrid puts it: “If they choose you because of pricing, you need to make sure that at renewal they actually choose you for the right reasons.”
If you care about churn, growth and earning the right to show up when there’s no obvious reason to, you'll love this episode.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

What does it really take for a 160-year-old brand to stay relevant in a world obsessed with shiny new fintechs, challenger banks and AI-powered everything?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Joe Goldberg, Head of Brand Strategy at Santander UK, for a no-fluff, deeply human conversation about how legacy brands evolve without losing their soul.
We dig into why modern banking isn’t about shouting “we’re digital” - it’s about designing emotional experiences that make people feel confident, included and in control of their money. Joe unpacks the real battle for salience in an AI-driven future, why most brands misunderstand loyalty and how trust, tone and honesty matter more than ever when your product is invisible.
There’s also a brilliant deep dive into experiential brand design, the role of fame (hello Ant & Dec), and why anxiety (not apathy) is the real enemy of modern financial services.
As Joe puts it:
“If you’re not salient, if people don’t know you exist, you’re dead.”
If you’re a CMO navigating growth, relevance and emotional connection in a complex category… this one’s unmissable.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Paul Taylor who held senior marketing leadership roles at firms like Swift and SS&C, to unpack one of the most misunderstood (and under-invested) growth levers in B2B: customer advocacy.
We get brutally honest about why advocacy so often gets reduced to logo slides, rushed case studies and last-minute favours for sales and why that mindset is costing marketing teams serious pipeline. Paul shares a much smarter way to think about advocacy, as a flywheel, not a campaign. When it's built on trust and peer-to-peer influence, customers will be talking about you when you’re not in the room. Love that!
We dig into how to design advocacy that feels human (not needy - we've all been there), how to spot real advocates hiding in plain sight, how to scale it without killing authenticity and how CMOs can actually measure impact beyond vanity metrics.
As Paul puts it:
“Good advocacy isn’t PR. It’s insurance for your brand in a world where trust is collapsing.”
If you want advocacy to drive growth, not just decorate your website, this one’s a must-listen.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Michelle to talk about one of the most misunderstood (and quietly tense) relationships in the C-suite: the Chief Marketing Officer and the Chief Commercial Officer.
This conversation was sparked by a debate that really stuck with me about where marketing should sit in an organisation, especially in fast-growing or acquisition-heavy businesses. There’s a growing assumption that marketing should automatically roll into commercial and Michelle articulates, brilliantly, why that can be a problem. As she puts it, “the Chief Commercial Officer drives revenue today. The Chief Marketing Officer builds revenue for tomorrow.” That distinction alone stopped me in my tracks.
We dig into why marketing so often becomes sales support, what happens when there’s no CMO voice at the table and what “good” actually looks like when commercial and marketing work in true partnership. If you’re a CMO or marketing leader trying to move from lead factory to long-term growth engine, you’ll get a lot from this one.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever been asked “So… are you more brand or demand?” and felt your soul leave your body? Same. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Smita Gupta to blow up that false choice and dig into what she calls the two-speed CMO – the marketer who can deliver this quarter and build compounding growth for next year.
We get into why “brand vs demand” is the wrong question, how to stop marketing becoming a glorified service desk for sales and what it really looks like to run your function like an investment portfolio, balancing pipeline now, conversion improvement and future demand creation.
Smita shares the dashboards, metrics and language that actually land with CEOs, CFOs and CROs, plus how to position marketing as a growth engine, not a cost centre.
When it comes to demand and brand, as Smita puts it “If you only do one, you either look busy or look brilliant. Neither guarantees revenue.”
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, we’re diving deep into one of marketing’s most hotly debated topics: how to balance brand investment with the constant pressure to deliver more leads. I’m joined by the fabulous Corin Camenisch, who’s built her career across product, brand, and growth, making her the perfect guide through the chaos.
We get into what really happens when your performance engine starts to plateau, how to structure brand experiments that prove value fast and the early signals that show your brand work is actually shifting the needle (long before revenue hits). We talk creative that truly lifts, internal storytelling, mapping your internal “audiences” and how to pitch brand in a language your CFO will actually understand.
And Corin sums up the heart of the episode beautifully when she says:
“Instead of being like ‘I want a big brand awareness campaign’, it’s better to say: why don’t we run an experiment to help decrease your CAC… that’s when people start to listen.”
If you’re a marketing leader trying to defend brand budget and make your performance engine more efficient, this episode is packed with firepower.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Sales and marketing - same team, right? So why do so many companies still treat them like distant cousins who only talk at family reunions? In this episode of CMO Therapy, I chat with Michael Treacy, Director of Marketing and Business Development at OpenPayd, about the art (and occasional chaos) of getting sales and marketing truly aligned.
We dig into why alignment isn’t just about passing leads over the fence, but about shared goals, mutual trust and actually speaking the same customer language.
Michael puts it perfectly: “The moment you hand over that MQL and say, ‘my job’s done,’ that’s when it all starts falling down.”
From practical ways to tighten collaboration, to how AI tools like Gong are transforming the feedback loop between teams, this one’s a must-listen for any marketing leader tired of the sales vs. marketing tug-of-war.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

What happens when everyone in your company suddenly becomes a marketer?

In this episode of CMO Therapy Lucy chats with Sam Schrager, CMO at BCB Group, about what it really takes to keep the engine running when every department, from HR to Product to the CEO’s office, has “just one little idea.”

Sam opens up about the chaos of juggling endless requests, managing expectations and keeping marketing strategic (not just reactive). We dive into how she’s learned to push back with confidence, educate the business on what marketing really does and build trust across teams… all while keeping the energy alive.

“I’ve got tougher over the last six months. I’m not afraid to push back and ask why are we doing this? What’s the actual objective?”

If you’ve ever felt like the office dumping ground for ideas, this one’s your therapy session.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Think your content and campaigns are strong? Think again. Because if you’re not nailing distribution, they’re probably falling short.
In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with Yoann Pavy, CMO at AI Apply, to unpack the hardest, most under-discussed part of marketing - distribution. Inspired by that killer quote, “A bad product with great distribution makes money. A great product with no distribution dies quietly,” this conversation dives deep into why distribution is now the ultimate growth advantage.
Yoann explains how social platforms like TikTok have flipped the playbook, where every post is its own campaign and why marketers need to think distribution first if they want real results. Expect spicy takes, practical advice and a few reality checks for any marketing leader still obsessing over ideas instead of reach.
As Yoann says: “The idea is already there - you just have to look, copy what works and execute.”

Closing a deal isn’t about one superstar channel swooping in to save the day - it really does take a village. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Vanessa Schotes, CMO at Enfuce to talk about why the endless “sales vs. marketing vs. partnerships” debate is holding so many companies back.
We dig into the reality that no single GTM channel works in isolation. Instead of playing the blame game (“Was this lead marketing’s? Or sales’?”), high-performing teams are figuring out how to orchestrate all their channels together for maximum impact. Of course, that’s easier said than done, especially when attribution models pit teams against each other and brand-building (which is critical for long-term growth) gets undervalued because it’s harder to tie directly to leads.
If you’ve ever wrestled with attribution headaches, budget fights, or proving the ROI of brand, you’ll want to tune in. This one’s packed with insights you can put into practice straight awayMusic clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever looked at your marketing tech stack and thought, “How the hell did it get this bad?” You’re not alone. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant (and brutally honest) Oren Greenberg to unpack why so many marketing leaders end up drowning in tools, silos and false promises.
We dig into:
- Why so many stacks turn into a Frankenstein monster of overlapping tools
- The cultural pressures that drive quick fixes over strategic thinking
- How to spot when a tool is actually adding value vs. just adding noise
- Why integration is less about APIs and more about asking “what data do I really need?”
- And the CFO-style mindset every CMO needs when deciding where to invest.
I loved it when Oren said “Are you trying to build something for average? Or are you trying to build something that’s right for your business in your context?”
This one’s a must-listen for any senior marketer ready to tame the chaos and take back control.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

The world of marketing has shifted and one of the biggest changes we’ve seen is the rise of the fractional CMO. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Lucy Woolfenden to dig into why so many senior marketers are choosing this path and why more companies are embracing it.
We chat about what’s driving the boom (hello, unpredictable economy!), the real value fractional CMOs bring and those crucial moments when bringing in flexible senior leadership makes more sense than hiring full-time. Lucy shares her own experiences from the frontlines, giving us a clear-eyed look at what works, what doesn’t and how businesses can get the best from a fractional leader.
As Lucy puts it, “Too many businesses hire a full-time CMO when what they really need is focus, speed and expertise on tap. That’s the beauty of fractional.”
Trust me, if you’ve ever wondered whether “fractional” could work for you, this one’s a must-listen.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

What does growth actually look like across different company stages? And why do so many CMOs and CEOs get it wrong?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the absolutely awesome Irina Chuchkina to unpack how marketing strategy should evolve as a business scales, from scrappy startup to polished scaleup and beyond.
We dig into misaligned expectations, chaotic Slack messages, undercooked processes and the all-too-common urge to chase “unicorn status” without building the proper foundations.
Irina drops absolute gold advice like: “Growth is such an often abused word… building strong foundations matters a lot more than just speed.”
We talk about the power of focus, the danger of spreading too thin too fast and why your org design, KPIs and even your spark need to shift at each stage.
This one’s a must-listen for marketing leaders navigating the madness of growth and trying to do it the smart (not scary) way.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Partner marketing: powerful strategy or PR vanity project?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I'm joined by the fabulous fintech marketing leader Yuliya Muir to dive into the real work that should happen before anyone hits "publish" on that shiny press release.

We get into the nitty-gritty of what makes a great partnership, from aligning on ICPs and co-owning go-to-market plans, to navigating lopsided dynamics and building genuine, long-term relationships. It’s not all about airtime, it’s about impact!

We also chat about how to divide and conquer campaign responsibilities, what to do when one partner has way more resources than the other, and how to make sure both sides actually win.

As Yuliya puts it: “Partnerships just work when done right. But you have to nail the ‘why’ before you go anywhere near the ‘what.’”

If you’ve ever been handed a partner announcement and asked to “just do some marketing,” this episode’s for you.

Ready for a dose of real talk about squiggly careers and breaking through glass ceilings in marketing? 
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the fabulous Betsy Samuel to unpack the twists, turns and triumphs of a marketing leader’s journey.
Betsy shares candid stories from her “one-person-band” early days in FinTech, the bold leaps that shaped her career and why embracing uncertainty can be your biggest advantage. 

Together, we tackle the challenges of burnout, building credibility and finding your tribe - both inside and outside your company. 

Betsy’s practical advice? Raise your hand for new projects, lean into your network, and remember: “You never know where that next opportunity is gonna come from to learn something new.” 

If you’re looking for inspiration, actionable tips, or just want to hear from someone who’s been there, this episode is packed with wisdom, humor, and heart. Perfect for any marketer ready to level up.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode, we’re diving into one of the hottest debates in marketing: does brand or revenue get the trophy? I’m joined by Keith Povey, who’s spent over two years as Director of Revenue Marketing and trust me, he’s got the battle scars and the wisdom to prove it! We unpack what it really means to balance brand building with revenue-driving tactics, especially when your KPIs are all about new business.

Keith shares his journey from being laser-focused on revenue to embracing the power of brand, revealing why “if people don’t know who you are, they can’t buy from you”. We chat about the challenges of measuring brand value, the evolving relationship between marketing and sales, and why sometimes, marketers need to be brave enough to be held accountable for business growth. As Keith puts it, “it’s easy to get an ‘A’ when you write the questions to the exam”. But does that really move the business forward?

Tune in for honest stories, practical tips and a few laughs along the way. This is a must-listen for marketers who want to level up!In this episode, we’re diving into one of the hottest debates in marketing: does brand or revenue get the trophy? I’m joined by Keith Povey, who’s spent over two years as Director of Revenue Marketing and trust me, he’s got the battle scars and the wisdom to prove it! We unpack what it really means to balance brand building with revenue-driving tactics, especially when your KPIs are all about new business.
Keith shares his journey from being laser-focused on revenue to embracing the power of brand, revealing why “if people don’t know who you are, they can’t buy from you”. We chat about the challenges of measuring brand value, the evolving relationship between marketing and sales, and why sometimes, marketers need to be brave enough to be held accountable for business growth. As Keith puts it, “it’s easy to get an ‘A’ when you write the questions to the exam”. But does that really move the business forward?

Tune in for honest stories, practical tips and a few laughs along the way. This is a must-listen for marketers who want to level up!

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

What’s it really like working in a big marketing team at a large company? In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with the brilliant Nicola Harley, Head of Global Content at Morningstar, to unpack the highs, the lows and everything in between.

We chat about the perks - think structured career paths, specialist roles and (sometimes) bigger budgets - but also the politics, long approval chains and finding your voice in a sea of stakeholders. Nicola shares why marketers in large companies need to think like intrapreneurs: “You have to really treat a big business like a startup… build things, demonstrate things and build an incredible network around you.”

We also talk leadership, EQ vs IQ, how to handle idea overload from the C-suite and why marketers should be better at communicating what they learn, not just what they achieve.
Big company or small, this episode is full of insight and it’s definitely not just for the corporate crowd. You’re going to love it!

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by the brilliant Emma Westley to unravel the emotional rollercoaster that is marketing attribution. Yep, we’re talking about the messy middle between marketing activity and actual sales – and why proving ROI isn’t as simple as plugging numbers into a spreadsheet.

From navigating complex customer journeys to the billboard problem (“How do you really know if it worked?”), Emma shares her candid thoughts on what attribution can – and can’t – do. Spoiler alert: “Attribution is never going to be perfect. So stop chasing perfection – chase insight.”

We get into why marketers need to be more confident telling their story to the business, what metrics actually matter and why aligning with sales is the secret sauce. Whether you love data or dread the dashboards, this is the honest chat every marketer needs.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever had that moment where your CEO casually says to you “I've had an idea, let’s go international, so congratulations your market just tripled” Suddenly, it’s not just about growing, it’s about scaling across borders, cultures and entirely different customer expectations. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Jasper Martens, CMO at PensionBee, to unpack what really happens when you take your brand global.

We talk about where to start, what not to assume and why you need to treat localisation like a non-negotiable, not an afterthought. Jasper shares what he learned the hard way: “You can’t add culture later like a hat - you need your outfit ready before you start.”

From building the right team and budget planning to navigating brand tone and working with strategic partners, we get into the real-world nitty-gritty of making international expansion actually work.

If you’re thinking about growing beyond your home turf, this one’s packed with the stuff you really need to know.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence1

Scaling marketing without a bottomless budget? It’s a balancing act - part strategy, part scrappiness and a whole lot of creativity! In the episode of CMO Therapy I’m joined by the brilliant Katie Hayes, Head of Marketing at Ozone API, who’s mastered the art of doing more with less.

We dive into how Katie’s built a standout global brand with a small but mighty team, smart partnerships and some seriously savvy content moves. As Katie said, “you can do a hell of a lot with a specialised, talented, ambitious, keen team.” Expect lots of great tips on co-marketing, content repurposing, scaling without overspending and personalisation that doesn’t cost the earth.

If your budget’s being stretched, shifted or squeezed but you’re still expected to make magic happen, then this episode is packed with real talk and actionable advice.

Music clip by Filo Starquez with Divergence

ABM. Three letters that should mean strategic gold… but all too often spark confusion, chaos and, let’s face it, mayhem.
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by the brilliant Cathy Calver, CMO at Global Relay, who helps us cut through the buzz and get real about account-based marketing – what it actually is, when it’s the right approach and how to make it work without driving your teams mad.

We talk about how ABM isn’t just a tactic – it’s a mindset shift. It needs cross-functional buy-in, proper planning and a whole lot of alignment between sales, marketing and everyone in between. Cathy shares war stories, practical tips and a few “please don’t do this” moments that every marketing leader needs to hear.

Whether you’re already deep in ABM land or just trying to make sense of it, this one’s for you. Come for the therapy, stay for the strategy.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Are you mapping your marketing to the buyer’s journey? Or just following sales?

Marketers love a good strategy - but are we mapping ours to how buyers actually buy or are we just shadowing sales? In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Dr Christine Bailey to dive into one of my all-time favourite debates: how much the buyer’s journey has evolved and what that means for measuring marketing success.

We’ve all heard the cry "death to the MQL!” but what’s the real alternative? Christine brings the data, the insights, and a refreshingly candid take on what marketers should be tracking instead. We tackle:
 - Why traditional funnels are failing marketers
 - The (many) ways B2B buyers are actually making decisions today
 - How to align your marketing efforts before buyers ever hit a sales pipeline

If you’ve ever felt like your marketing team is speaking one language and sales another then this one’s for you. Let’s talk buyer journeys, real marketing impact and finally cracking this puzzle.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Walking into a company as the first marketing leader (or the new one) is a wild ride. Everyone has an opinion on what marketing should be—branding, lead gen, social media, events... maybe even ordering swag. But what if their expectations don’t match reality?

In this episode of CMO Therapy, I chat with Mariette about the highs, lows, and curveballs of stepping into a marketing leadership role. We get real about setting boundaries, educating the business on what marketing actually does, and handling the flood of “have you tried this?” ideas without shutting people down or becoming the dreaded “no” person. Mariette shares her strategy: listen, filter, and steal with pride - because great ideas can come from anywhere.

If you've ever felt like a one-person marketing department juggling a thousand expectations, this one’s for you. Grab a coffee (or something stronger), hit play, and let's figure this out together.

Listen now!Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever feel like marketing is just a lonely game of shouting into the void? Well, guess what? It doesn’t have to be. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Gemma Livermore - founder of Women of FinTech and FS International Marketing Lead at Seismic - to dive into the power of community.
We’re talking about more than just networking. This is about real human-to-human connections, building trust, and creating a marketing strategy that doesn’t just sell but actually matters. Gemma shares how brands can grow loyal advocates (without being salesy), why community-driven marketing is the secret weapon every marketer needs, and how to get leadership buy-in when they start asking about ROI.
If you’ve ever wondered how to turn your audience into a thriving, engaged community, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in and learn how to build something that lasts.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Kathryn Strachan - marketing powerhouse, author and fractional CMO - to uncover the secret sauce of content strategies. Spoiler alert: you can’t create a killer content strategy without a solid marketing strategy to back it up. Kathryn and I talk about why starting with your audience is everything and how truly understanding their needs can help you deliver content that actually connects.

We dive into the big questions: how do you balance quality and quantity? How do you navigate internal battles over messaging? And how can you create campaigns that not only look great but deliver real results? Kathryn also shares her tips on building your own personal brand, leveraging partnerships and using AI (the smart way) to save time without cutting corners.

Whether you’re focused on driving brand awareness, creating case studies or proving ROI, this episode is packed with insights you can take straight to your team.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever feel like AI is the shiny new toy everyone’s talking about, but you’re not sure what to do with it? In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with marketing maestro Sumeet Vermani to cut through the hype and uncover what AI really means for marketers.

We’re tackling the big questions: - Where do you even start with AI? - Should you focus on tech or strategy first? - And what’s the right balance between human creativity and machine efficiency?

Sumeet shares real-world examples, from AI-generated personas to global content localisation, and even a glimpse into AI-powered sales coaching. Plus, we explore how to avoid AI pitfalls, foster collaboration across teams, and create a future-ready marketing strategy.

If you’ve ever wondered how AI could transform your marketing team (or secretly feared it might replace you), this is the episode for you. Expect actionable insights, a few laughs, and a hefty dose of inspiration. Don’t miss it!

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Alex Ford, a true marketing genius who effortlessly bridges the gap between sales and marketing. Together, we dive into the world of demand generation, intent measurement, and the often-complicated relationship between sales and marketing teams.

Alex shares his unique perspective on creating awareness and demand without rushing to the hard sell, as well as his hands-on approach to digging deep into buyer intent – a must for measuring the success of demand gen efforts.

We explore some big questions, like:

- How can marketers effectively measure and communicate intent throughout the buying process? - Where should marketing end and sales begin – or is it all one continuous effort? - What are the biggest misconceptions sales and marketing teams have about each other? - And most importantly, how can sales and marketing work together as a true revenue-generating team?

This is a must-listen episode for anyone looking to align these two powerhouse teams and unlock their full potential.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, we dive into the art of fluid marketing with Helen Owen, a marketing guru in the world of payments and an expert in navigating the ever-changing world of marketing strategy. Together, we explore the delicate balance between long-term planning and the need for agility in today’s fast-paced market.

From knowing when to pivot to managing resources and motivating teams amidst shifting priorities, Helen shares insights and real-world examples of how flexibility isn’t just a necessity—it might also be what makes marketing so exciting.

We tackle questions like:

- How do you strike the balance between strategy and adaptability? - What does a truly flexible marketing campaign look like? How can data and tools help you stay ahead of the curve?

Whether you see constant change as a challenge or an opportunity, this episode will leave you with actionable ideas and plenty to think about.

Tune in to learn how to embrace the ebb and flow of marketing and turn uncertainty into your biggest advantage.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

When it comes to thinking like a challenger brand, I couldn’t think of anyone better to ask advice, other than the amazing Eric Fulwiler. With oodles of experience, Eric was previously CMO at 11:FS where he built a media machine and is now Founder of his own agency Rival.

Listen in as we chat about:

- Doing more with less – what does that look like for marketing?

- Challenger brands seem to thrive under pressure, so what are they doing right that bigger players could learn from?

- So many marketing leaders often feel like they’re juggling a hundred things at once with no time for a breather.

- How can we manage it all, especially when we’re trying to do more with less?

- Myth busting the biggest misconception about challenger brands

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode I speak to Andrea Linehan, Fractional CMO, Advisory Board member for the CMO Council, and previously CMO for CurrencyFair.

Andrea and I have a fantastic discussion about the challenges marketing leaders often face with building a relationship and communicating with the CFO… or communicating ROI from marketing in general!

We chat about:

- When you're in those budget meetings and the CFO is all about numbers, how can we manage the pressure to justify marketing spend, especially when a lot of what we do is more long-term or harder to measure?

- Do you ever get the sense that CFOs see marketing as just a big cost centre?

- How can we flip that narrative and help them understand the long-term value of brand building and customer engagement?

- The best go-to strategy for proving ROI in areas like content creation or brand awareness, where results are more intangible, and how we can show it's worth the investment.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Welcome to my new podcast, CMO Therapy!

Wait, what’s that, another podcast? OK OK. Give me a minute to tell my story.
My name is Lucy Heavens and I’m a senior marketing professional. I’ve worked in the fintech industry for more than 25 years and I love it!

One of my favourite and (so I’m told) top skills is relationship building, and I’ve built up quite a network of fintech marketers over the years. Not just any marketers. In my humble opinion, I’m super grateful to be surrounded by lots of awesome marketers.

In more recent years as I’ve become more senior (*cough* and older), I’ve realised that I need these awesome people in my life more than ever. The life of a CMO can be tough at times, right?

On a regular basis my WhatsApp pings with a “fancy a chat?” or “can I pick your brain?” message. I fondly call these ‘therapy sessions’ where my fellow CMOs and I bounce ideas off each other, discuss challenges and unpack sticky situations. Just to confirm – I am not suggesting I have all the answers, 100% not! But there is so much power in having a buddy, an ear, a trusted friend to talk things through.

Two heads are better than one. It takes a village… take your pick of any of those quotes. It’s this approach that’s helped me grow so much quicker into a better marketer and kept me sane over the years.

During one of our therapy sessions, one person said “Lucy, we should record this. So many other would definitely benefit from listening, learning, and offering another perspective.” So this is my gift to you.

If you’ve made it this far, I hoped I’ve tempted you enough to have a listen.

So, welcome to CMO Therapy everyone! A podcast that’s hopefully going to help you navigate your way through your marketing journey because let me tell you, I get it – being a marketing leader is no walk in the park.

In each episode we dive headfirst into the world of B2B marketing, where uncertainty, tight budgets, and fierce competition are just the beginning of the rollercoaster ride. But guess what? You're not alone in this. Why go solo when you can tap into the powerhouse of insights from some of the most awesome marketing leaders in the game?

And look, the title might include the word therapy, but we're not just talking about challenges here – we're tackling them head-on. Join us as we deep dive into the nitty-gritty, share war stories, and unlock secret strategies. Get ready for no-holds-barred conversations because sometimes I have no filter.

So, if you're a chief marketing officer, a marketing lead, or just someone looking to up their marketing game – then CMO Therapy is for you!

You’ll get one new episode every 2 weeks on a Tuesday – my new favourite day of the week - with chats about about so many marketing topics from AI, to thinking like a challenger, to how CMOs can love your CFO.

I’m so excited for you to listen and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. So stay tuned for episode 1!

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence