Climate Unf*cked – Details, episodes & analysis

Check out the UK’s most trusted climate action platform, Ecologi at: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth Frank Holleman is the founder of Fork Ranger, an app and movement that's helping 150,000+ people to eat more sustainably. He's spent six years proving that the most effective climate action isn't perfection, it's making sustainable eating so ridiculously easy that it slips under people's resistance radar. His philosophy is simple: we don't need a few perfect environmentalists, we need millions of people taking imperfect action. This conversation unpacks why food is responsible for one third of global emissions, why beef is five times worse than chicken, and why replacing beef with literally anything else is the single easiest climate win most people aren't taking. We also talk about the psychology of behaviour change, why going from "never again" to "90% less" makes all the difference, and how eating seasonally became Fork Ranger's most popular product even though it only reduces 2% of food emissions. Frank also shares the framework that drives his entire approach: make the invitation to change small enough that it never triggers fight or flight, and why level three of sustainable eating isn't about cutting dairy, it's about inviting two friends to start level one. —— In this episode, we dive into: Why food causes one third of all global greenhouse gas emissions, and over half of that comes from meat (even though it contributes only 17% of calories but uses 83% of agricultural land) The carbon footprint gap: beef is five times worse than chicken, which means swapping beef for chicken is a bigger climate win than most people realize (and you don't even have to go vegetarian) Why there IS a role for animals in a sustainable food system, but only on marginal lands in small amounts, which means meat becomes a luxury, not a weekly staple The two hardest parts of eating sustainably: the unknown and behavior change itself (finding new recipes, imagining what it tastes like without meat), and then the social pressure of being the only one who cares at the dinner table Fork Ranger's three levels: Level 1 is replace beef with chicken or pork (not even vegetarian, just different meat). Level 2 is reduce food waste (one third of all food is wasted, mostly at home, and it's usually because we're too picky). Level 3 is invite two friends to start Level 1 and 2, because we don't need perfect environmentalists, we need millions taking action Why food waste is the second level, not cutting dairy: it's a huge environmental problem, and solving it reinforces the mindset that food is valuable, not a cheap commodity we can afford to throw away The 25% tipping point: if a quarter of people in a group do something against the norm, the rest become so uncertain about what's normal that they follow along and it suddenly flips (like fist bumps vs handshakes) Book recommendations: Kaizen: One Small Step to Change Your Life, Project Drawdown, Change: How to Make Big Things Happen, and You Are What You Love —— This podcast is sponsored by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Find Fork Ranger at: https://forkranger.com Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— 00:00 Why is eating sustainably hard? 06:41 Why we need to talk about meat 10:52 Why You Don't Have To Go Vegan 12:57 Food Causes 1/3 Of All Climate Change 14:32 The Important Truth For Meat Lovers 21:13 The Psychology Of Behaviour Change 26:49 The 3-Level System For Eating Sustainably 30:39 Why food waste is a huge problem 35:44 Is your app actually changing behaviour? 40:01 The 25% Tipping Point That Could Change Everything 43:28 Influential Books and Resources 47:51 Shopping Malls, Consumerism & Why Eating Is Political 52:04 Unexpected impact of eating seasonally 57:26 Individual Choices vs. Systemic Change

Check out Ecologi at https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth. Juliet Davenport founded Good Energy and spent 20 years proving that a distributed renewable energy business could actually work driven by the philosophy that ordinary people, not governments or corporations, should drive the energy transition. This conversation goes deep into the parts of the energy debate that almost nobody explains clearly — why your energy bills are high, who's actually responsible for fixing the grid, and whether lower carbon and lower costs can genuinely happen at the same time. We talk about why wind and solar were designed to maximise output rather than serve customers, how the national grid went from managing 30 power stations to millions of generators overnight, and the uncomfortable truth about why fossil fuel lobbying works as well as it does. Juliet also shares the framework that shaped her entire approach to climate action — and why she thinks getting angry at bad actors is one of the least effective things you can do. —— This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— In this episode, we dive into: Why energy conversations should be about people, not power stations - and how we've spent decades designing renewables to maximise output instead of delivering what consumers actually need The engineering mistake that's costing us billions: wind turbines designed for maximum megawatt hours instead of smooth, predictable output that matches when people use power How the UK energy system went from managing 30 fossil fuel generators to millions of renewable sources - and why the data and software still aren't good enough to handle it Marginal pricing explained: why gas sometimes sets the energy price (and sometimes doesn't) - and why in summer we actually get too much renewable power, causing prices to go negative The price cap paradox: why the policy that protected consumers for 15 years might now be keeping energy bills higher than they need to be (because everyone buys power at the same time) Why decoupling energy prices from gas isn't the answer - it'll happen naturally as renewables grow, and there are bigger regulatory fixes that would cut bills faster The lobbying reality: fossil fuel companies will fight to protect their business model until they can't - so Juliet built Good Energy to prove a zero-carbon business could work commercially, not as a charity Why AI energy use is like "using precision laser tooling to cut bread" - we need quantum computing for low-accuracy tasks and smarter algorithms, not powering everything with coal-fired data centers The three forces needed for systemic change: activism (to open conversations), policy (to set direction), and business (to deliver) - and why anger between bad actors and activists can actually get stuck in a loop that prevents progress What Juliet would do with a billion pounds: grid reinforcement, European interconnectors, automatic meter readers in every UK home (not overcomplicated smart meters), an innovation fund for energy efficiency, and a democracy campaign so people understand energy beyond media filters Why households should run like mini power stations - using energy at the right time of day automatically, without expecting consumers to think about it The Finnish town heated entirely by waste heat from a data centre - and why tech companies aren't being smart enough about secondary energy use —— Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— 00:00 Energy Should Be About People, Not Power Stations 04:30 Why Renewables Were Designed Wrong From the Start 08:30 The 2030 Clean Power Plan & Fixing Government Contracts 12:00 Why the National Grid Is Struggling to Keep Up 16:30 Can We Have Lower Bills AND Lower Carbon? 20:30 How Energy Prices Are Actually Decided 27:00 Are Fossil Fuel Companies Actively Blocking Change? 33:00 Why Getting Angry at Bad Actors Doesn't Work 40:30 Why Activism, Policy & Business Are The Levers of Change 48:30 AI's Energy Problem & Why Big Tech Isn't Being Smart 56:00 Where Juliet Would Spend £1M, £1B & £100B 1:03:30 The Question Nobody Asks Her 1:06:30 How Do We Accelerate the UK's Clean Energy Transition?

Kate Williams is CEO of 1% for the Planet, the global movement founded by Patagonia's Yvon Chouinard that's certified over $820 million in environmental giving - and they're on track to hit their first billion. She's spent the last 11 years scaling a model that proves capitalism can work differently: 1% of revenue (not profit) goes to vetted environmental nonprofits, no matter what kind of year you've had. It means rent for the planet (and its financial discipline) is baked into the P&L. And it's proof that simple actions, done repeatedly, in community, at scale, can aggregate to billions of dollars in impact - without putting a ceiling on what companies can do beyond that. —— This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— In this episode, we dive into: → What trends is she seeing in the market? → How is 1% for the Planet different from Patagonia? → Why should nonprofits exist separate from the market? → What has Kate learned from Yvon? (Patagonia’s founder) → Why did the pandemic cause a huge increase in sign-ups? → How is 1% using capitalism’s mechanisms for good? → What are non-profit’s role in climate progress? → Would Kate pick up a call from ExxonMobil? —— Find out more about 1% for the Planet at: https://www.onepercentfortheplanet.org/ Connect with Kate Williams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katewilliams87/ Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ Timestamps 00:00 Non profit’s role in climate 05:42 What is 1% for the Planet? 11:28 Why 1% of Revenue, Not Profit? 18:35 Vetting Nonprofits and Impact Areas 23:47 Dollar-Per-Impact vs Systemic Change 27:29 How can we do capitalism differently? 29:51 How is 1% like a tax? 33:55 Why 1% on revenue, not profit? 40:38 How has Kate grown 1%? 44:37 Why did sign-ups increase in covid? 49:33 What has Kate learned from Yvon (Patagonia founder?) 55:28 Does the ‘green’ movement exclude people? 01:09:45 Being an "N of Many" vs Patagonia's "N of One" 01:06:33 Trends Kate is seeing 01:14:19 “What do you wish more people would ask you?” 01:19:47 “What are you fed up of being asked?” 01:22:00 How to learn more about 1%?

Dr. Renée Lertzman is a climate psychologist who's worked with the likes of Google, Transport for London, the White House,and WWF - and her TED Talk has been viewed over 2 million times. She trains changemakers, organisations, and businesses around the world to stop using outdated models of human behaviour and start applying what we actually know about psychology to create real, lasting change. Most of us are working from an old, outdated understanding of humans as rational, logical beings - and it's killing our effectiveness. Her work is about ditching the "yell, tell, and sell" approach and learning how to create the relational conditions where people can access the care they already have. —— This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— In this episode, we dive into: Why you can't make anyone care about climate - and the reframe that actually works: people already care, but something's getting in the way of that care The three things blocking people from acting on climate: feeling powerless, perceived conflicts with identity/heritage, and lack of safety to express vulnerability "Yell, tell, and sell" - the three dominant (and failing) approaches to climate communication: moralising and scaring people, over-educating with facts, and toxic positivity cheerleading Why motivational interviewing works: asking "what's your experience with flying?" instead of "don't you realise how bad flying is for the planet?" The Transport for London cycling campaign that showed a woman riding through a park with flowers - and why honest, gritty messaging (like showing someone drenched and miserable) would actually work better How Renée trained message researchers to talk with conservative Republican climate skeptics using active listening - and by the end of a two-minute script, they were saying "yeah, let's do something about climate" Why that breakthrough research can't get traction - and Renée's frustration that the climate world won't listen to what actually works The question everyone needs to interrogate: what is your theory of change? (Inspiration? Storytelling? Market transformation? Better research? Processing feelings? The arts?) Why charged information that evokes disgust, shame, blame, or guilt actually impairs our prefrontal cortex - we literally can't process the information we're being given The five guiding principles for effective changemaking: attune, reveal, convene, equip, and sustain Why Renée draws the line at having conversations with people who don't recognize her humanity (like Trump) - but why the "messy middle" of people feeling fearful and threatened is where our energy needs to go Her upcoming book The Changemaker Code - a playbook for anyone who cares deeply about the world and wants to be more effective while protecting their own resilience and well-being —— Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ Timestamps 00:00 Psychology of Climate Communication 01:58 How do I make people care reframe 06:31 Creating the conditions for change 11:23 The Air Travel Pilot Project 14:05 Transport for London Cycling example 19:45 Just Stop Oil and the Spectrum of Climate Action 23:14 3 Ineffective Approaches 25:51 Theories of Change: What Really Drives Human Behaviour 29:42 Republican Climate Skeptics Project: Listening Works 40:16 What about Trump? 45:58 Renée’s upcoming book 48:26 The Neuroscience of Change: Why Fear Backfires 50:28 Final Bits: Being Seen and Heard

Mark Shayler has spent 35 years working in sustainability before it was cool - and he's saved his clients over $200 million while doing it. He's an environmental consultant, innovation specialist, and straight-talking force of nature who works with everyone from Coca-Cola to Unilever to tiny manufacturing businesses in Bradford. He believes that, whilst business created most of the world's problems, it's also the thing that can fix them. Mark doesn't do sandals-and-placards environmentalism. He meets companies where they are, speaks the language of profit and loss, and isn't afraid to work with the "bad guys" if it means shifting their trajectory by even half a degree. This is sustainability from the inside out - messy, pragmatic, and unapologetically commercial. In this episode, we dive into: Why "being green" has become a way of beating people down instead of democratising climate action - and how judgment creates division, not progress The evolution of corporate sustainability requests: from "keep me out of prison" to "keep me lean" to "help me care more" to today's "help me stay relevant and attract talent" Why Mark would work with Shein - and exactly what he'd change (regenerative cotton, circular polyester, legitimate leasing instead of borrowing-with-tags-on) The project-level litmus test: if you can't put the company name on your intro slide without embarrassment, don't take the work Why quarterly reporting and employer-tied healthcare in America are the biggest brakes on innovation and brave climate action The "highways department conundrum" - we'll need to see it's too late before we do something about it ("no one's died yet, do you want me to volunteer my 93-year-old nan?") How consumption became an anti-depressant and why we're no happier buying our 10th pair of jeans than our first The fertility of "rapid deposition" - why the last third of life should be about giving knowledge away, not hoarding it (and why Mark's plan is: don't retire, don't die) Why populism and the rolling back of the green agenda isn't about sustainability at all - it's about trust, science, and people being left behind economically The rise of "green hushing" and why we need to reclaim the narrative - ecology and economy come from the same Greek word meaning "home" Finding the rebels and renegades inside organisations - the "weird kids" who take risks and want excitement, not corporate uniformity Why materiality beats moral purity, why movement is a message, and why "for the many, not the few - and you are the many" is the billboard Mark would put up everywhere —— This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ —— Find Mark at: https://www.markshayler.com/ And his work at: https://www.thisisape.co.uk/ Timestamps: 00:00 How Mark Explains His Work 03:40 The Problem with Green Washing vs Green Hushing 05:39 Working With "Bad" Companies Like Coca-Cola 08:25 How Mark Judges Which Projects to Take 11:53 Projects He's Said No To 13:45 The Tension Between Good People and Bad Systems 16:30 The Shein Hypothetical 21:37 When Companies Change Beyond Recognition 23:07 How Mark Has Saved Clients $200 Million 26:00 What Green People Get Wrong About Communication 29:15 Why American Healthcare Traps Innovation 32:23 Finding the Rebels Inside Organisations 36:48 Imagination vs Constraint in Sustainability 40:35 The Gentle Stick and Massive Carrot Approach 42:28 Why You Shouldn't Retire 46:03 “Mark, can you help me to…” 49:06 The Threat of Populism to Climate Action 52:03 What Comes After "Mark, Can You Help Me?" 54:47 Will We Roll Back the Green Agenda? 58:00 Patriots vs Jingoists 59:20 If Mark Had a Global Billboard 1:01:15 Why Mark Does What He Does

Professor Mike Berners-Lee is the internationally renowned bestselling author of How Bad Are Bananas?, The Burning Question (co-authored with Duncan Clark), There Is No Planet B, and most recently A Climate of Truth. He's a professor at Lancaster University and works on carbon footprinting through his company Small World Consulting, which has worked with companies like BT, Microsoft, and all 15 UK national parks. A couple of weeks ago, Mike chaired the National Emergency Briefing in Westminster Hall to hundreds of political, business, faith, culture and media leaders. In this episode, we dive into: Why the "energy transition" is actually an "energy addition" - we've grown renewable energy by 2.5x since the first COP, but fossil fuel use has grown 60% in the same period The three things actually needed for energy transition: grow renewables, constrain fossil fuel supply through carbon pricing, AND reduce total global energy demand Why individual carbon footprints don't directly cut global emissions (it's like squeezing a balloon - it pops out elsewhere) - but why they still matter for creating ripple effects and cultural change The psychology of climate denial - from grief transition curves to "disavowal" (when you understand the evidence but live as if you don't) - and how to move past protective mechanisms Why carbon accounting is broken - most companies use random system boundaries that make numbers incomparable, and why we need to count everything in supply chains once and once only The dishonesty crisis: how a "broken trinity" of politics, media and business is dragging each other down instead of raising the game - and why we need a "me too moment" for political deceit Media ownership matters - who owns what you read, their track record, and how subtle influence shapes thinking over time (including a taxonomy of deceit techniques) The week Mike spent investivating Bjorn Lomborg's book The Skeptical Environmentalist that exposed hundreds of errors and scientific dishonesty Bill Gates has "gone bonkers" on climate - from claiming to invent a decades-old formula to missing tipping points entirely, plus his recent memo saying climate isn't the most pressing issue The journey from How Bad Are Bananas? (individual action) to A Climate of Truth (systemic change) - and why we need humanity to undergo "urgent evolution" to become Anthropocene-fit Why narrative is everything right now - this is NOT the time to go quiet on climate action, it's time to stand up, be brave, and talk even louder —— This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth —— Find Mike’s latest book A Climate of Truth Sign the letter for a National Emergency Briefing broadcast: https://www.nebriefing.org/open-letter-keir Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ 00:00 Understanding the Green Spectrum 03:08 Psychological Barriers to Climate Action 05:48 The Shift from Individual to Systemic Change 08:57 The Journey of Climate Literature 11:54 The Need for Economic and Political Reform 14:53 Energy Transition: Myths and Realities 17:45 The Role of Technology in Climate Solutions 21:07 The Influence of Family and Upbringing 23:49 The Importance of Honesty in Climate Discourse 33:42 Media Ownership and Its Influence 36:00 Political Nuance and Environmental Discourse 39:53 Personal Responsibility vs. Systemic Change 43:01 The Ripple Effect of Individual Actions 46:48 The Importance of Narrative in Climate Action 49:30 Challenging Misleading Environmental Narratives 56:14 Psychological Barriers to Climate Action 01:01:40 The Call for Courageous Conversations

Sam Zindel is Managing Director at digital marketing agency Propellernet and founder of GEN R. Gen R is an environmental movement that uses music and art to support nature. He's created a jukebox that plants trees for every song played - and it spent the summer with Fatboy Slim. Sam's mission is to drag environmentalism out of the culture wars and root it back into popular culture where it belongs. No sandals required. No technical jargon. Just fun, accessible climate action that meets people where they already are - at gigs, festivals, and in the pub. In this episode, we dive into: Why 80% of people care about the environment but the climate movement is still stuck in an echo chamber - and how to fix it The story behind the 1959 vinyl jukebox that plants trees, displays holographic bees, and ended up at Fat Boy Slim's Brighton cafe after debuting at Glastonbury Why scaring people with sea level rise or confusing them with "scope 1 emissions" are terrible entry points to climate action The school play moment that changed everything - when an 8-year-old read a story about a hummingbird and called out the adults in the room How Propellornet went from measuring a 91-ton carbon footprint to funding a million trees in three years (and why offsetting for £1,000 felt "appalling") The three core principles of Gen R: individual decisions without judgment, collective responsibility, and accepting imperfect progress Why "movement is a message" - from reusable cup schemes at festivals to train travel included in football tickets The power of imagination over climate denial - even if you don't believe in global warming, who wouldn't want cleaner air at the school drop-off? Why nature is a superpower in climate storytelling and how the Wildling app makes it accessible to everyone (not just National Trust members) Book recommendations: How Bad Are Bananas? by Mike Berners-Lee, From What Is to What If by Rob Hopkins, and Net Positive by Paul Polman Thank you to Ecologi for supporting the podcast. They're the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out ‪@Ecologi_hq‬ at https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth Follow the jukebox journey at @gen_r_jukebox on Instagram Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/ And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/ 00:00 The Jukebox that Fatboy Slim hosted 07:40 Engaging Popular Culture for Environmental Change 13:28 Behavior Change Through Storytelling 16:38 Collective vs. Individual Action in Climate Solutions 22:31 Personal Responsibility and Grassroots Action 28:43 Inspiring Hope and Fun in Environmentalism 31:24 The Hummingbird Story that changed Sam’s life 43:09 Awakening to Environmental Responsibility 51:39 Measuring and Reducing Carbon Footprint 58:00 Investing in Nature and Community 01:02:11 The Role of Business in Sustainability 01:09:39 Long-Term Change vs. Short-Term Solutions