Explore every episode of the podcast Cleave: The Podcast

What happens when a family becomes more committed to protecting its image than confronting the truth?

The Emperor’s New Clothes was written nearly 200 years ago, but it may be one of the most powerful illustrations of an unhealthy family system.

Everyone can see what’s happening.

Everyone participates in the illusion.

And then one person finally says what nobody else is willing to say.

Suddenly, the problem isn’t the emperor anymore.

The problem becomes the person who pointed it out.

In this episode of Cleave Answers, Jon explores what this classic story can teach us about dysfunctional family systems, image management, enabling, conformity, scapegoating, boundaries, and the difficult role of the family truth-teller or cycle breaker.

Why do people go along with behavior they privately recognize as unhealthy? Why can naming dysfunction feel more threatening to a family system than the dysfunction itself? And what happens when you finally stop trying to convince everyone else to see what you see?

We also explore an important caution for cycle breakers: healing isn’t about exposing, humiliating, or endlessly trying to prove that you were right.

Sometimes healing is much quieter.

You don’t have to attack the emperor. You can simply stop applauding the clothes.

If you’ve ever wondered why telling the truth seemed to make you the problem, this episode is for you.

Father’s Day can bring up a lot more than celebration.

For some, it brings gratitude. For others, it brings grief, longing, anger, regret, or the ache of a relationship that is not what it should have been.

In this episode, Jon shares a deeply personal reflection on fatherhood, grief, generational legacy, and the kind of man he is striving to become. He talks about losing his own father to brain cancer, the grief that still lives in the body, the stories of the men who came before him, and the painful reality that some people grieve fathers who are still alive because of estrangement, pride, broken trust, or emotional harm.

This episode is about the legacy good fathers leave behind — not money, image, status, or worldly success, but presence, integrity, humility, repentance, protection, faith, and love.

It is also for anyone who is trying to become healthier than the family system they came from.

Whether you are grieving a father who has passed away, grieving a father who is still living, navigating estrangement, trying to heal a father wound, or simply wanting to become a more Christlike parent, this conversation is an invitation to reflect on what really matters.

Good fathers do not have to be perfect.

But they should be willing to tell the truth, own their mistakes, honor their families, and choose integrity over image.

Learn more from Jon and Ashley at Leave Then Cleave.

👇 Start here:📖 Get a free chapter of Christlike Boundaries:https://www.leavethencleave.com/christlike-boundaries-free-chapter📖 Get a free chapter of Leave Then Cleave:https://www.leavethencleave.com/free-chapter🎙️ Listen to Cleave: The Podcast:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cleave-the-podcast/id1727634410Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4n4moys6tyb5hrmkbkkk3o?si=a0611fc0c69a42c4💬 Need help navigating family pressure, estrangement, boundaries, or reconciliation?Learn more about Clarity Conversations here:https://www.leavethencleave.com/clarifyingconversations📚 Books by Jon & Ashley:Christlike Boundaries: https://a.co/d/0j8P1FuJLeave Then Cleave: https://a.co/d/07Avn2OfSubscribe for more conversations on Christian boundaries, family systems, emotional safety, marriage, estrangement, grief, and healing.#FathersDay #Fatherhood #Grief #ChristianBoundaries #FamilyEstrangement #FatherWound #Legacy #ChristianFamily #MarriageAndFamily #EmotionalHealing

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Can reconciliation happen if someone refuses to acknowledge what they did?

In Part 2 of this Q&A conversation, we talk about what reconnecting should look like after no contact, especially when the other person refuses to admit wrongdoing or take accountability.

We also address the belief that family estrangement is always caused by Satan or evil forces trying to destroy families — and why that idea can sometimes be used to pressure people back into unhealthy systems.

In this episode, we discuss reconciliation, accountability, forgiveness, family estrangement, spiritual manipulation, red flags, green flags, and how to seek God with real intent.

If you missed Part 1, we recommend starting there first.

Join us for the Christlike Boundaries Workshop on June 30th:

Get Christlike Boundaries on Amazon.

Or... read the first chapter for FREE. Click here.

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What does it really mean to honor your parents as an adult — especially when the relationship has become painful, controlling, or unhealthy?

In Part 1 of this Q&A conversation, we talk about the difference between childhood obedience and adult honor, why boundaries are not dishonor, and how to navigate family relationships when peace requires truth.

We also answer a tender question: What do you do when parents who have gone no contact suddenly want to reconnect after finding out you’re pregnant?

In this episode, we discuss honoring parents, family dysfunction, boundaries, no contact, reconnection, protecting your marriage, and what healthy rebuilding should actually look like.

Join us for the Christlike Boundaries Workshop on June 30th

Get Christlike Boundaries on Amazon. or download the first chapter for FREE! Click here.

Was Encanto really about magic… or was it about family trauma?

In this episode of Leave Then Cleave, Jon and Ashley unpack Disney’s Encanto through the lens of family systems, generational trauma, scapegoating, emotional roles, truth-telling, and healing.

Why did We Don’t Talk About Bruno resonate with so many people?

Why did Mirabel feel so familiar to those raised in emotionally complicated families?

And what happens when one person in the family starts noticing the “cracks” everyone else wants to ignore?

Together, we explore:

• Abuela and generational trauma — how unhealed pain becomes family culture
• Mirabel as the truth teller — and why truth tellers often become scapegoats
• Bruno and estrangement — why families sometimes exile the person who sees too much
• Luisa, parentification & pressure — the burden of being “the strong one”
• Isabella and perfectionism — the hidden pain of the golden child
• Family homeostasis — why systems resist change, even when they’re hurting people
• Healing after dysfunction — what Encanto surprisingly gets right about repair

If you’ve ever felt like the one who saw the cracks… the one asking hard questions… or the one who became “the problem” for telling the truth, this episode is for you.

Topics discussed:
Family trauma, family systems theory, scapegoat child, emotional immaturity, toxic family dynamics, Christian healing, estrangement, truth tellers, parentification, golden child dynamics, boundaries, generational healing, emotional health, Encanto explained.

📘 Grab our new book, Christlike Boundaries and more on on our website www.leavethencleave.com

🎙️ Subscribe to Leave Then Cleave for honest conversations on faith, family systems, boundaries, healing, marriage, and emotional health.

We are so grateful you are here!

Also find us on social @leave_then_cleave (instagram, tiktok and facebook!)

For many Christians, the hardest part of setting a boundary is not the boundary itself.

It is the guilt.

The fear that saying no means you are selfish.
The fear that needing space means you are unforgiving.
The fear that limiting access means you are dishonoring your family.
The fear that protecting your marriage, your home, your peace, or your children somehow means you are failing to love like Jesus.

That is exactly why we wrote Christlike Boundaries.

In this special episode, Jon reads the introduction and Chapter 1 of Christlike Boundaries, the new book from Jon and Ashley Lefrandt. Chapter 1, “Love Is Not Compliance,” begins with the core truth every Christian needs before they can understand boundaries clearly: love is not proven by endless availability, emotional over-responsibility, or keeping everyone comfortable.

Jesus was perfectly loving, but He was not compliant. He was merciful, but He was not manipulated. He was peaceful, but He did not preserve false peace. He was full of grace and truth.

If you have ever wondered, “Can I set boundaries and still be Christlike?” this episode — and this book — were created for you.

Buy Christlike Boundaries on Amazon.

Listen, reflect, and ask yourself:

Where have I mistaken compliance for love?

For more resources and to stay connected, check out our Website: www.leavethencleave.com or find us on Instagram, Tiktok and Facebook @leave_then_cleave !

How can you tell if someone has truly repented?

In this episode of Leave Then Cleave, Jon and Ashley talk about one of the most confusing dynamics in faith-based families: when someone claims repentance but refuses accountability, repair, or honest conversation about the harm they caused.

Using Christ’s teaching that “by their fruits ye shall know them,” they explore the difference between true repentance and counterfeit repentance, godly sorrow and image management, discernment and judgment, forgiveness and restored trust.

This conversation is not about becoming the judge of someone’s soul. It is about learning to recognize fruit: humility, confession, restitution, changed behavior, concern for those harmed, and a willingness to become safe.

For anyone who has been told, “I already repented, so you need to move on,” or “That is between me and God,” this episode offers language, clarity, and a Christ-centered framework for discerning whether repentance has actually produced change.

Learn more at leavethencleave.com.

This is Part 2 of our conversation with Rachel Wood on boundaries.

In Part 1, we talked about why boundaries are not unchristlike, how people-pleasing can become a form of control, and why healthy love requires truth, agency, and self-respect.

In Part 2, we move into one of the hardest questions many people face:

What do you do when you are trying to get healthy, but the other person does not want accountability, honesty, repentance, or change?

For many people of faith, this is where boundaries become deeply personal. We may understand the idea of boundaries in theory, but when it touches our family, our marriage, our loyalty, our guilt, or our desire to forgive, it can become incredibly difficult to know what is loving, what is wise, and what is safe.

In this episode, we talk about forgiveness versus reconciliation, manipulation, spiritual pressure, addiction, accountability, discernment, and what it means to recognize fruit rather than simply trust words.

Because forgiveness is a commandment.

But reconciliation requires repentance, honesty, safety, and changed behavior.

Those are not the same thing.

If you have ever felt pressure to keep forgiving while harmful patterns continue, or wondered whether setting a boundary means you are failing to be Christlike, this conversation will help give language to what you may already be sensing.

And if this topic feels personal right now, we invite you to join us for our May Healing Webinar Series, where we’ll continue walking through painful family dynamics, boundaries, estrangement, guilt, grief, spiritual pressure, and practical next steps for healing.

You can learn more about the webinar series, our book Leave Then Cleave, and our other resources at leavethencleave.com.

One of our most-listened-to conversations is back.

This episode originally aired a couple of years ago, when our podcast had a different name and a much smaller audience. But as our community has grown, we realized that many of you have probably never heard this conversation before, and it continues to be one of the most important discussions we’ve ever had.

In this episode, we are joined by our friend Rachel Wood for Part 1 of a two-part conversation on boundaries.

For many people of faith, boundaries can feel uncomfortable. We may wonder if saying no is selfish, if self-advocacy is unkind, or if creating distance means we are failing to forgive.

But healthy boundaries are not the opposite of Christlike love.

They are often what make real love possible.

In Part 1, we talk about what boundaries actually are, how people-pleasing can become a form of control, why resentment often reveals places where we have abandoned ourselves, and how faith, personal revelation, and emotional honesty can help us stop living from fear and start living in truth.

We also explore family systems, attachment, sacrifice, self-betrayal, generational healing, and why loving God and others does not require losing yourself.

Part 2 will continue this conversation with one of the hardest questions of all: what do you do when you are trying to get healthy, but the other person does not want accountability, honesty, or change?

If this episode helps you, please share it with someone who may need language for what they are experiencing.

Learn more about our book and resources at leavethencleave.com.

If you are afraid that setting boundaries, going no contact, or disappointing your family will ruin your life, this episode is for you.

Most conversations about boundaries focus on what they cost.

The grief.
The backlash.
The loneliness.
The fear of being misunderstood.
The pain of relationships changing.

But in this episode, Jon and Ashley talk about what boundaries can give back.

After years of people pleasing, self-doubt, emotional exhaustion, and constantly managing other people’s perceptions, boundaries created space for something new: clarity, creativity, confidence, joy, self-discovery, and a deeper sense of God’s direction.

Ashley shares how pickleball, gardening, and creating beauty in their home became part of her healing. Jon shares how boundaries gave him the courage to run for city council, speak vulnerably online, and help build a platform that has now reached millions of people.

This conversation is for anyone who is afraid that setting boundaries will ruin their life. Sometimes boundaries do bring grief. But they can also become the doorway into the life God has been trying to help you build.

If you are navigating family estrangement, no contact, people pleasing, religious pressure, toxic family dynamics, or the emotional aftermath of setting boundaries, this episode will help you see that healing is not only about what you leave behind. It is also about what you finally become free to walk toward.

Join us this Wednesday for our live event, Healing After No Contact.
This event is for those who have already made a painful boundary decision and are now living with the grief, second-guessing, backlash, loneliness, and emotional aftermath.

Register here.

What do you do when a sermon, a Bible verse, a conference talk, or a spiritual principle gets used against you?

In this episode, we talk about a painful dynamic many people experience in unhealthy family systems: when teachings about peacemaking, forgiveness, humility, honor, or reconciliation are twisted into pressure, shame, control, or spiritual superiority.

This conversation was prompted in part by messages we received after President Oaks’ recent talk on peacemaking. We want to be clear: we honor and sustain President Oaks, and we saw nothing wrong with his message. What we are addressing is the way true spiritual principles can be misused by others in ways that feel manipulative, coercive, or spiritually destabilizing.

In this episode, we unpack the difference between peacemaking and appeasement, why truth is not the same thing as being harsh, how spiritual language gets weaponized in estrangement and no-contact dynamics, how to stay grounded in God when others use faith to destabilize you, and what scripture teaches about truth, control, and righteous boundaries.

Whether the pressure came through a pastor, a parent, a church leader, or someone quoting scripture at you, the principle is the same: something true can still be used in a spiritually harmful way.

If you have ever felt guilty, confused, or shaken because your boundaries were framed as unloving or unchristian, this episode is for you.

We also share details about our upcoming live online CLEAVE Events:
April 22: Boundaries Without Guilt
April 29: Healing After No Contact

If you are interested in attending either of these events, you can find more details on our website:

www.leavethencleave.com/cleave-events

What do you do when your spouse has not fully left and cleaved? Why do siblings experience the same family so differently? And how do you stop letting unhealthy family dynamics live rent free in your mind long after distance has been put in place?

In Part 2 of this Q&A episode, Jon and Ashley respond to some of the most common and painful questions they hear from this community around marriage, family systems, forgiveness, triangulation, and emotional healing. They talk about what happens when one spouse begins to recognize unhealthy family patterns before the other does, why family roles form so differently among siblings, and how grief, truth, and time all shape the healing process after no contact.

In this episode, they explore:

• what it means to “leave and cleave” when your spouse is not fully there yet
• why forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing
• how triangulation and unhealthy sibling roles develop in families
• why children in the same home can carry very different family experiences
• how grief can keep people emotionally attached even after no contact
• what it looks like to finally let go and move forward with God

Jon and Ashley also talk about the slow nature of healing, the small and simple truths that can begin changing a marriage, and the painful but freeing process of accepting that you cannot do other people’s healing for them.

If you are navigating:

• family estrangement
• emotionally immature parents
• marriage tension around in-laws
• sibling scapegoating or triangulation
• Christian questions about forgiveness and reconciliation
• the grief of no contact

this conversation will give you language, validation, and a more grounded path forward.

If this episode resonates with you, check out our book Leave Then Cleave, a faith-rooted guide to boundaries, marriage, family systems, and healing. you can also download the first chapter for free at www.leavethencleave.com/free-chapter

How do you know if you are setting a healthy boundary… or just creating more family drama?

In Part 1 of this Q&A episode, Jon and Ashley respond to some of the most common and emotionally complex questions they receive from this community. Together, they talk through the guilt that often comes with setting boundaries in religious and enmeshed family systems, what it really means when family members say they miss you but refuse to change, and how to help children grieve grandparents or extended family relationships when distance has become necessary.

This episode is for anyone wrestling with questions like:

• Am I being wise, or am I just making things worse?
• What do I do when people say they love me, but their behavior never changes?
• How do I tell my children the truth without making them carry more pain?
• Is it possible to be honest about harm while still staying rooted in love?

Jon and Ashley talk about Christ-like boundaries, truth-telling, forgiveness, grief, family estrangement, and the responsibility parents carry to help their children understand unhealthy patterns without passing those patterns on to the next generation. They also explore why truth is not the same as cruelty, why love does not require denial, and why healthy families make room for both honesty and healing.

If you have ever struggled with toxic family dynamics, emotionally immature parents, religious guilt around boundaries, or helping children navigate family estrangement, this conversation will give you language, validation, and a more grounded path forward.

In Part 2, Jon and Ashley will talk about what happens when a spouse has not fully left and cleaved, why siblings can experience the same family so differently, and how to stop letting unhealthy family dynamics live rent free in your mind.

If this episode resonates with you, check out our book Leave Then Cleave, a faith-rooted guide to boundaries, family systems, marriage, and healing.

You can find it on our website LeaveThenCleave.com/store or if you'd like you can read the first chapter for free at leavethencleave.com/free-chapter.

Holy Saturday is the day in between.

Friday’s pain has already happened.

Sunday’s redemption is coming.

But today… it can still feel quiet.

In this Holy Week episode of Here’s the Lesson, Jon reflects on the meaning of Holy Saturday and what it teaches us about waiting, grief, unanswered prayers, and the sacred growth that can happen in seasons of silence.

Drawing from personal experience—including the devastating loss of his father to brain cancer—Jon shares how some of life’s most painful chapters can also become some of the most transformative.

This episode is for anyone walking through:

• grief and loss
• spiritual waiting
• marriage pain
• fractured family relationships
• unanswered prayers
• job loss or life transition
• seasons where heaven feels quiet

Holy Saturday reminds us that silence does not mean abandonment.

Just because nothing looks different yet does not mean nothing is happening.

Some of God’s holiest work happens where we cannot yet see it.

And if life still feels like Saturday right now, please hear this:

the story is not over. Sunday will come.

In the episode, Jon also references Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin’s powerful message, Sunday Will Come, and shares why that sermon has deeply shaped his faith and hope.

For so many people, these “Saturday seasons” are not just moments in Holy Week — they are chapters of real life.

The waiting after the loss.

The silence after the prayer.

The ache between what broke and what has not yet been rebuilt.

That is one of the deepest reasons Ashley and I wrote Leave Then Cleave.

We wrote it for people navigating grief, painful family relationships, betrayal, and the difficult work of healing while holding onto faith and hope for what God is still doing.

📖 Start with the free first chapter:
https://www.leavethencleave.com/free-chapter

🎧 Explore the full book and audiobook:
https://www.leavethencleave.com/store

#HolySaturday #SundayWillCome #ChristianHealing #HopeAfterLoss #LeaveThenCleave

Good Friday brings us to one of the most sacred and sobering moments in all of scripture:

the cross.

This is the day when betrayal, grief, abandonment, and suffering seem to reach their deepest point.

And yet Good Friday reveals one of the most powerful truths of the gospel:

love stayed.

In this episode of Here’s the Lesson, Jon reflects on what Good Friday teaches us about suffering, family pain, betrayal, grief, and the hope we find in Jesus Christ.

The Savior did not remain distant from human pain.

He entered it fully.

He knows betrayal.
He knows abandonment.
He knows grief.
He knows what it feels like to carry something all the way to the end.

For anyone navigating family wounds, broken trust, loneliness, or a sorrow that feels heavier than words can hold, this conversation is for you.

We talk about:

• Good Friday and the meaning of the cross
• grief and suffering
• betrayal and abandonment
• family pain and emotional wounds
• Christ-centered hope
• why suffering is not proof that heaven has left you

Good Friday reminds us that when everything else gave way, love remained.

And because love stayed, so can hope.

.........................................................................

If today’s episode resonated—especially if you are carrying grief, betrayal, family wounds, or the ache of trying to hold onto faith through suffering—that is one of the deepest reasons Ashley and I wrote Leave Then Cleave.

We wrote it for people navigating painful relationships, family systems, broken trust, and the difficult work of healing without losing their faith.

📖 Start with the free first chapter:
Visit LeaveThenCleave.com/free-chapter

🎧 Explore the full book, audiobook, and resources:
Visit LeaveThenCleave.com/store

📰 Join our Weekly Note for faith-centered healing and family clarity: Click here.

Holy Thursday brings us to one of the most sacred and deeply human moments in all of scripture:

The Garden of Gethsemane.

This is the night Jesus is not before the crowds.

He is alone.

In anguish.
In prayer.
Under the full weight of what is coming.

And what makes this moment so powerful is this:

Jesus did not deny the pain.

He did not rush past the sorrow.

He brought the full weight of His suffering before the Father and still said:

“Nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” Holy Bible

In this episode of Here’s the Lesson, Jon explores what Holy Thursday teaches us about pain, surrender, grief, faith, and what it means to trust God in the middle of something heavy.

If you are walking through your own Gethsemane—family pain, betrayal, grief, uncertainty, spiritual exhaustion, or the ache of surrendering something you did not choose—this conversation is for you.

We talk about:

• Holy Thursday and Gethsemane
• Faith in suffering
• grief and Christian healing
• surrender without emotional bypassing
• trusting God in painful seasons
• discipleship in the middle of uncertainty

And if this tension feels painfully familiar—the ache of holding onto faith while carrying something heavy—that is one of the deepest reasons Ashley and I wrote Leave Then Cleave.

We wrote it for people navigating family wounds, betrayal, grief, painful relationships, and the difficult work of healing without losing their faith.

📖 Start with the free first chapter in the show notes
🎧 Explore the full book and audiobook

Plus, explore TONS of Free Content over at leavethencleave.com

Follow Us on Social Media and YouTube: @leave_then_cleave

Holy Wednesday confronts us with one of the most painful truths in all of scripture:

Jesus was not betrayed by strangers.

He was betrayed by someone inside the circle.

Someone who had walked with Him.
Sat with Him.
Learned from Him.
Shared meals with Him.

That is what makes this day so deeply human.

Because some of life’s deepest wounds do not come from obvious enemies. They come from people close enough to know what would hurt us most.

In this episode of Here’s the Lesson, Jon explores what Holy Wednesday teaches us about betrayal trauma, family wounds, church hurt, grief, broken trust, and the sobering realization that proximity does not always mean safety.

If you have ever been wounded by a parent, spouse, sibling, trusted friend, or church leader, this conversation is for you.

We talk about:

• family betrayal
• church hurt and spiritual wounds
• broken trust
• grief after betrayal
• Christian healing
• the difference between closeness and safety
• why Jesus understands this pain intimately

Holy Wednesday reminds us that Christ is not distant from betrayal.

He has entered it.

And if this conversation feels painfully familiar—if you are trying to make sense of family wounds, church hurt, or the grief that comes from someone close becoming unsafe—that is one of the deepest reasons Ashley and I wrote Leave Then Cleave.

We wrote it for people living inside this exact tension: trying to hold onto faith, truth, and healing while making sense of betrayal from within the circle.

📖 Start with the free first chapter here.
🎧 Explore the full book and audiobook at leavethencleave.com/store

Holy Tuesday gives us one of the most sobering lessons of Holy Week:

not everyone who sounds spiritual is safe.

Jesus was not hardest on weakness.

He was hardest on what looked righteous but quietly harmed people.

In this “Here’s the Lesson” episode, Jon explores what Christ teaches about hypocrisy, spiritual pressure, false holiness, and the difference between appearance and fruit.

Jesus never confused how someone sounded with what their presence actually produced.

That question still matters:

Does this relationship produce peace… or pressure?
Freedom… or fear?
Clarity… or confusion?

If you are navigating spiritual manipulation, toxic family systems, false guilt, emotionally immature parents, or Christian boundaries, this episode is for you.

This is part of our Holy Week series, helping connect the life of Christ to the realities people face in marriage, family systems, faith, and healing.

If today’s lesson stirred something in you, and you’ve been trying to make sense of the difference between true discipleship and spiritual pressure, that is exactly why Ashley and I wrote Leave Then Cleave.

This book was written for people navigating painful family systems, false guilt, unhealthy loyalty, and the confusion that comes when relationships sound spiritual on the surface but quietly produce fear, pressure, and silence.

It helps put language to what so many people have felt but struggled to explain:
the difference between peace and passivity,
love and control,
forgiveness and avoidance,
faithfulness and self-abandonment.

If that tension feels familiar, start with the free first chapter at leavethencleave.com/free-chapter.

And if it resonates, the full book, audiobook, and additional resources are available there as well.

📖 Start with the free first chapter of Leave Then Cleave:
https://leavethencleave.com/free-chapter

🎧 Explore the full book, audiobook, and resources:
https://leavethencleave.com/store

On Holy Monday, Jesus does something many Christians do not know what to do with:

He cleanses the temple.

He overturns tables.
He drives things out.
He disrupts what everyone else had learned to tolerate.

And He does not do it because He lacks love.

He does it because something sacred is being violated.

In this episode, we explore what Jesus cleansing the temple reveals about faith, truth, boundaries, false peace, and the difference between being loving and being passively tolerant. If you have ever struggled to reconcile your Christian faith with the need to protect your marriage, your peace, your home, your children, or your relationship with God, this conversation is for you.

We talk about spiritual pressure, unhealthy family systems, religious guilt, and why Christlikeness does not mean allowing what is holy to be exploited while everyone calls it normal.

This episode is for those wrestling with questions like:

• What does Jesus cleansing the temple teach us about boundaries?
• Does being Christlike mean staying soft no matter what?
• Can Christians set boundaries and still be faithful?
• What is the difference between real peace and false peace?
• How do I protect what is sacred without becoming hard?

If you are navigating toxic family dynamics, spiritual manipulation, religious control, emotionally immature parents, difficult in-law relationships, marriage boundaries, or the tension between truth and family loyalty, we hope this episode gives language to what you have been feeling.

If this episode resonates, start with the free first chapter of Leave Then Cleave.

Comment or message CHAPTER on any of our social channels, or get the book and resources here:
Free Chapter: leavethencleave.com/free-chapter
Book, Audiobook, and Resources: leavethencleave.com/store

On Palm Sunday, the crowds welcomed Jesus with praise, palm branches, and celebration. But beneath that moment was a painful tension: many people were not surrendering to who Christ truly was. They were embracing who they hoped He would be.

In this mini episode of Here’s the Lesson, Jon explores what Palm Sunday reveals about discipleship, people-pleasing, family pressure, Christian boundaries, and the cost of following Jesus when truth disrupts the systems around you.

This episode is for the person who is trying to be faithful to Christ but feels torn between obedience and approval… between truth and keeping the peace… between honoring others and betraying what God is doing in their own heart.

If you’ve ever wrestled with questions like:

• Why does following Jesus sometimes create tension in relationships?
• What does Palm Sunday teach us about people-pleasing?
• Can a Christian set boundaries and still be faithful?
• What happens when Jesus doesn’t fit the expectations of the people around us?
• How do I follow Christ when family pressure, guilt, or religious image management are pulling at me?

This conversation is for you.

In this episode, Jon talks about:

• the deeper meaning of Palm Sunday
• why crowds are dangerous places to build your identity
• how people-pleasing can disguise itself as faithfulness
• the difference between following the real Christ and following a version of Jesus that protects our comfort
• why discipleship often requires disappointing people
• how Christian faith, truth-telling, and emotional maturity are deeply connected

If you are navigating emotionally immature family dynamics, religious guilt, boundary-setting, estrangement, or the painful tension between loyalty and truth, this episode will help put language to what you may be carrying.

Leave Then Cleave is a podcast about Christian boundaries, family dysfunction, estrangement, emotional maturity, marriage, healing, and learning how to follow Jesus with honesty and courage.

If this episode resonated with you, here are a few ways to keep going:

Get the book: Leave Then Cleave was written for the person who loves God, loves family, and still finds themselves carrying confusion, grief, pressure, or pain in their closest relationships. It explores what it means to follow Christ with honesty when loyalty has become unhealthy, peace has become appeasement, and truth feels costly. This book offers language, clarity, and a faithful path forward for those navigating boundaries, family dysfunction, emotional immaturity, estrangement, and the deep work of choosing truth without losing their soul.
Download the free first chapter by commenting or messaging CHAPTER on our social content
Book a Clarity Conversation with Jon
Explore more episodes, articles, and resources at leavethencleave.com

If this podcast is helping you, please follow the show, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who may need it.

What does it actually mean to be a “peacemaker” as a Christian?

For many of us, “keeping the peace” meant staying quiet…
avoiding conflict…
and carrying things that were never ours to carry.

But that’s not the peace Jesus talked about.

In this episode, we break down the difference between true peacemaking and unhealthy appeasement, and why so many people—especially in family systems—confuse silence with peace.

If you’ve ever struggled with:

• Setting boundaries with family
• Feeling guilty for speaking the truth
• Being labeled “difficult” for not staying quiet
• Trying to follow Christ without losing yourself

This episode will help you reframe what peace actually looks like.

Because real peace is not the absence of tension…
it’s the presence of Christ in how you live, speak, and set boundaries.

🔑 In this episode, we cover:

• Why “keeping the peace” often leads to self-abandonment
• The biblical meaning of peacemaking (and what it’s NOT)
• How to set Christ-centered boundaries without guilt
• Why you can’t control others’ repentance or emotional maturity
• What it means to say: “This stops with me.”

📖 Want to go deeper?

We wrote Leave Then Cleave for people navigating exactly this— family tension, boundaries, faith, and emotional clarity.

👉 Get the first chapter FREE: https://www.leavethencleave.com/free-chapter

🎙️ Listen, watch, and connect:

🌐 Website: https://www.leavethencleave.com📩 Join the Weekly Note📖 Get the book: https://www.leavethencleave.com/store🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@leave_then_cleave

📱 Follow for more:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leave_then_cleaveFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/Livingintruthproject

If this episode resonated, share it with someone who’s been told “keeping the peace” means staying silent.

Because it doesn’t.

Have you ever been told, “Don’t talk about that… it’s gossip”—when you were just trying to make sense of something painful?

In many families and faith communities, truth-telling gets mislabeled as gossip. And when that happens, harmful patterns stay protected, voices get silenced, and the people who need support the most are left carrying it alone.

In this episode, we break down the difference between gossip and truth, why this confusion happens, and how to discern when speaking up is actually an act of integrity—not betrayal.

If you’ve ever questioned yourself for naming something that felt off… this episode is for you.

You’ll learn:

• The real difference between gossip and truth
• Why “keeping the peace” can actually protect dysfunction
• How silence reinforces unhealthy systems
• A better question to ask when you’re told to stay quiet

This is about clarity, courage, and learning how to walk in truth—wisely.

📖 Get the Free Chapter of Leave Then Cleave
Start here if this episode resonated:
👉 https://www.leavethencleave.com/free-chapter

📘 Get the Full Book (Ebook, Audiobook, + Workbook Bundles)👉 https://www.leavethencleave.com/store

🎙️ Explore More Episodes + Resources👉 https://www.leavethencleave.com

🎵 Eterna Tribute (Custom Songs for Loved Ones)👉 https://www.eternatribute.com/collections/memorial-collection/products/custom-tribute-song

Why do conversations with your parents feel impossible?

Why does it feel like you’re asking for something simple—honesty, accountability, understanding…
and getting defensiveness, silence, or “we did the best we could” in return?

In this episode, we break down what’s actually happening beneath the surface.

This isn’t just a communication issue.
It’s not just personality differences.

👉 It’s generational.

We walk through:

• Why older generations struggle with emotional accountability
• How therapy culture changed the way millennials see relationships
• Why “we did the best we could” feels so painful to hear
• The real reason family systems resist truth and change
• And why awareness can feel both clarifying… and incredibly isolating

If you’ve ever felt:

• misunderstood by your parents
• frustrated trying to explain your pain
• or questioned your own reality in family relationships

This episode will give you language—and clarity—for what you’re experiencing.

Because you’re not imagining it.

You’re seeing something that previous generations were never taught to see.

And while that awareness can feel heavy…
it’s also where generational healing begins.

📖 Want to go deeper?
Our book Leave Then Cleave walks through how to navigate boundaries, truth-telling, and healing in family systems—without losing yourself in the process.
You can find it here: leavethencleave.com/store

🎵 A meaningful way to honor someone you love:
If you’re navigating grief—or want to preserve the story of someone important in your life—check out the Custom Tribute Song at EternaTribute.

They take memories, stories, and moments… and turn them into a professionally written and recorded song your family can keep forever.

👉 Learn more: www.eternatribute.com/products/custom-tribute-song

🎙️ Cleave is about learning to leave what’s unhealthy—and cleave to what’s true.

What happens when you set a healthy boundary… and instead of being met with understanding, you become the target of a smear campaign?

In this episode of Here’s the Lesson, Jon shares a personal story about what unfolded after he and his wife Ashley set boundaries within their family—and how quickly the narrative shifted from the truth… to attacks on his character.

Rumors were spread.
Assumptions were made.
And the focus moved away from the real issue entirely.

If you’ve ever experienced family conflict, toxic family dynamics, narcissistic abuse, or emotional manipulation, this episode will help you understand what’s actually happening beneath the surface.

🔍 In this episode, we explore:

• What a smear campaign really is (and why it happens)

• Why people attack your character instead of addressing the boundary

• How triangulation and narrative control show up in families

• The connection between boundaries and emotional backlash

• Why you may feel confused, anxious, or like you need to defend yourself

• How to stay grounded in your identity when others try to rewrite your story

Smear campaigns are often used in toxic family systems when someone begins to break patterns, set boundaries, or speak the truth.

Instead of accountability, the system shifts into protection mode—creating stories, distorting reality, and isolating the person who disrupted the pattern.

If you’ve ever thought:

• “Why are they saying this about me?”

• “How did this get so twisted?”

• “Why do I feel like I have to defend who I am?”

You’re not alone—and you’re not crazy.

📖 Want to go deeper?

We wrote our book to help people navigate boundaries, estrangement, family systems, and emotional healing—especially when telling the truth comes at a cost.

👉 Read the free chapter here.

👉 Or explore the full book.

🌱 This episode is for you if you are:

• Dealing with toxic family relationships

• Experiencing a smear campaign or character attack

• Learning how to set boundaries without guilt

• Navigating estrangement or no contact

• Trying to understand narcissistic or emotionally immature family systems

• Working on healing, identity, and emotional clarity

You don’t need to win the narrative to stay in the truth.

And sometimes, the presence of a smear campaign is the clearest sign…
that you told a truth the system couldn’t tolerate.

If you’ve ever set a boundary with your family and immediately felt guilty… this episode is for you.

That voice that starts asking:
“Was that too harsh?”
“Am I hurting them?”
“Am I being selfish?”

For many people, that guilt is enough to pull them right back into old patterns—people-pleasing, over-explaining, and abandoning themselves.

But here’s the truth:

Guilt doesn’t always mean you’re doing something wrong.

Sometimes… it means you’re doing something different.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Why guilt shows up when you start setting boundaries

• How family systems react when you step out of your role

• Why confidence comes after the boundary, not before

• And how to move forward even when it feels uncomfortable

Because for many, this isn’t just uncomfortable… it feels like grief.

And that’s part of the process of building something healthier, more honest, and more aligned.

If you’re navigating boundaries, family tension, or the emotional weight that comes with telling the truth—this episode is for you.

🔗 Learn more about the Custom Tribute Song mentioned in this episode:

https://www.eternatribute.com/products/custom-tribute-song

📘 Explore our book + additional resources:
Read the first chapter for free! www.leavethencleave.com/free-chapter

or purchase the ebook or audiobook on our store:

www.leavethencleave.com/store

Thank you all for your continued support! It means the world to us. Thank you for being here.

This episode is a special release from our new book, Leave Then Cleave: Breaking Unhealthy Patterns Without Losing Your Faith.

What you’re about to hear is the opening segment from the book — a chapter we call “The Letter.”

It tells the story of the night everything changed for our family.

After months of trying to address difficult patterns inside a family system built on silence, control, and spiritual pressure, we received a seven-page message that made one thing painfully clear:

The system was not interested in truth.

It was interested in restoring the status quo.

That night forced us to make one of the most difficult decisions of our lives — establishing a boundary we didn’t even have language for at the time.

Today many people call that going no contact.

But at the time, we simply knew that returning to the system would cost us something we were no longer willing to lose.

If you’ve ever struggled with:

• family estrangement
• manipulation wrapped in religious language
• guilt around setting boundaries
• or the painful decision to step back from unhealthy relationships

this story may resonate deeply.

This is only the beginning of the journey.

The full book explores the deeper dynamics behind family systems, truth telling, boundaries, and healing in complex relationships.

If this episode resonates with your experience navigating difficult family relationships, consider following the podcast so you don’t miss future conversations on boundaries, healing, and faith.

You can find the full book and audiobook here:

https://leavethencleave.com/store

Why do people easily condemn abuse when it appears in the news… but struggle to confront it when it happens inside their own families or communities?

In this Here’s the Lesson mini-episode, Jon explores a powerful blind spot that exists in many family systems: moral clarity is easy when the villain is distant, but much harder when the person causing harm is someone we know and love.

Drawing from gospel principles and the teachings of Jesus, this episode explores why families sometimes protect unhealthy dynamics, why communities often prioritize peace over truth, and what real integrity looks like when confronting difficult realities.

Christ consistently stood with the vulnerable and confronted systems that exploited or harmed others. His example invites us to consider what it means to follow truth—even when it costs something.

Here’s the lesson:
Condemning evil from a distance is easy.
Integrity is revealed when the truth becomes personal.

Ashley and Jon’s new book explores these themes in greater depth, including how to navigate difficult family relationships, establish healthy boundaries, and pursue healing without abandoning faith.

Download Chapter One for free:
👉 https://www.leavethencleave.com/free-chapter

If this episode resonated with you:

• Share it with someone who might need it
• Follow the podcast for weekly episodes
• Leave a review to help others discover the show

Your support helps these conversations reach people who are navigating difficult family dynamics and searching for clarity.

📖 Want to Go Deeper?🎙 Connect With Us

Why does God allow betrayal, injustice, and seasons that feel like the pit?

In this episode of the CLEAVE Podcast, Jon and Ashley explore the story of Joseph in Egypt and what it teaches us about suffering, family betrayal, faith, and personal transformation.

Joseph’s story is one of the most powerful narratives in scripture. He is betrayed by his own brothers, sold into slavery, falsely accused, and imprisoned for years.

Yet through every trial, the scriptures repeat the same message:

“The Lord was with Joseph.”

In this conversation we explore what that really means — and how God can be present even when life feels deeply unfair.

Jon shares the story of receiving devastating news about his father’s stage-four brain cancer while serving a mission in Japan, and how that moment completely reshaped his understanding of faith, suffering, and God’s purposes.

Together, Jon and Ashley discuss:

• Why family betrayal cuts so deeply
• The difference between forgiveness and restored trust
• Why prosperity does not equal peace
• How bitterness can trap us if we stay there
• Why suffering can become a source of strength and wisdom
• What the Joseph story teaches about boundaries, healing, and redemption

If you've ever wrestled with questions like:

Why did this happen to me?
Why do people who hurt others seem to prosper?
How do I move forward after betrayal?

This episode will help you see suffering through a new lens.

Because sometimes the pit is not punishment.

Sometimes it’s preparation.

If this episode resonated with you, here are three ways you can help this message reach more people:

1️⃣ Follow the podcast on Spotify or Apple so you never miss an episode.

2️⃣ Share this episode with someone who might be walking through their own Joseph season.

3️⃣ If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, leaving a quick review helps this podcast reach more people who feel alone in complicated family and faith journeys.

You can also follow along with Jon and Ashley on social media at @Leave_Then_Cleave, where we share additional insights, reels, and conversations throughout the week.

And we have a ton of resources available for you on our website... www.leavethencleave.com

We’re grateful you’re here.

And as always —

happy healing.

What does it actually mean when someone says a family “functions like a cult”?

This episode explores the psychological dynamics of control inside certain family systems — especially in religious or faith-centered homes.

We’re not talking about compounds.

We’re talking about:

• Unquestioned authority
• Boundaries labeled as betrayal
• Loyalty demanded without accountability
• Silence used as punishment
• Image protected at the expense of truth

For many people of faith, this creates a deep internal conflict:

How do you honor your parents without participating in dysfunction?

We unpack the difference between honor and compliance, differentiation and rebellion, truth and division.

If you’ve felt like your growth disrupted your family system — this conversation will help you understand why.

Control-based systems protect power.

Healthy systems protect people.

And breaking generational patterns does not mean breaking your faith.

If this conversation brought clarity, consider following the show and leaving a rating — it helps more people navigating family control and spiritual abuse find this message.

And if you’d like to go deeper into healthy differentiation from a faith perspective, the Weekly Note and related resources are linked below.

Weekly Note

Leave what’s unhealthy. Cleave to what’s true.

What does it actually mean to “leave and cleave” in marriage?

Many couples don’t struggle because they don’t love each other.
They struggle because no one ever taught them how loyalty shifts when you enter a covenant relationship.

In this episode of CLEAVE, we unpack:

• Marriage boundaries and family of origin dynamics
• In-law tension and enmeshment in Christian families
• Emotional maturity and loyalty in marriage
• Why resentment is often a sign that a boundary is being crossed
• How faith can be used to heal — not control
• Practical steps to protect your marriage without dishonoring your parents

If you’ve ever felt like you were competing with your spouse’s family…
If you’ve felt torn between honoring your parents and protecting your marriage…
If resentment keeps surfacing and you don’t know why…

This episode is for you.

Healthy families don’t happen by accident.
They happen by order.

📌 Practical steps mentioned in this episode are available in the show notes at leavethencleave.com
📖 Book recommendations include Boundaries and Changes That Heal
💬 If you need support navigating marriage and family tension, explore Clarity Conversations on our website.

Follow the podcast so you don’t miss future episodes on spiritual abuse, family systems, marriage health, and emotional growth.

Many Christians are told that unless there is sexual or physical abuse, they should “just work through it.”

But what about spiritual abuse?
What about chronic manipulation, gaslighting, emotional control, and family systems that demand silence over truth?

In this episode of Leave Then Cleave, we unpack the difference between forgiveness and enabling — and why reconciliation requires repentance.

We discuss:

• Spiritual abuse in Christian families
• Toxic family dynamics and enmeshment
• “Honor your father and mother” vs healthy boundaries
• Forgiveness vs continued access
• When going low contact or no contact becomes necessary
• What “leave and cleave” actually means for marriage

Not all harm leaves bruises.
Not all rebellion is sin.
And not all boundaries are unbiblical.

If you’re navigating faith, family conflict, generational dysfunction, or accusations that you’re “dividing the family,” this conversation will give language to what you’ve been feeling.

🔎 Show notes, book recommendations, and resources:
👉 https://leavethencleave.com

If this episode helps you, follow the podcast and leave a rating or written review. It helps this message reach people who are quietly searching for clarity.

Remember: Clarity is not rebellion. Wisdom is not sin.

In many families, the person who starts healing becomes the threat.

In this episode, we unpack the role of the scapegoat — and why the one who sees unhealthy patterns is often labeled dramatic, divisive, or difficult. We explore how discernment develops, why systems protect stability over truth, and how boundaries actually preserve relationships instead of destroying them.

We discuss:
• Scapegoat vs golden child family roles
• Why truth triggers backlash
• Emotional and spiritual manipulation
• Trauma, pattern recognition, and discernment
• Forgiveness vs enabling
• Why growth disrupts dysfunctional systems
• How to set boundaries without losing your integrity

If you’ve been told you’re “too sensitive,” “causing drama,” or “breaking the family apart” after you started healing — this conversation will give language to what’s happening.

Sometimes the scapegoat isn’t the most broken person in the system…
they’re the one who finally saw it.

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES

Join the Weekly Note (weekly reflections + tools):

Work with Jon 1-on-1 Coaching:

Watch full video episodes & clips

Read deeper written essays:
https://substack.com/@leave_then_cleave

Follow on Instagram, and TikTok:
https://instagram.com/leave_then_cleave
https://www.tiktok.com/@leave_then_cleave

and lastly... If the podcast helped you, please rate & review — it helps others find support and language for their situation.

Love you all! Thank you for being here.

Most Christians are taught that forgiveness means immediate reconciliation.

But that’s not what happened in the story of Joseph.

In this episode of Here’s the Lesson, Jon unpacks the powerful intersection of scripture and psychology — showing how the biblical story of Joseph and his brothers reveals something many churches overlook:

Forgiveness is internal.
Reconciliation is relational.
And trust is rebuilt through consistent evidence over time.

Drawing from both Genesis and modern neuroscience, this episode explores:

• Why trauma lives in the nervous system
• Why Joseph tested his brothers before restoring closeness
• The difference between forgiveness and access
• How to set Christian boundaries without guilt
• What scripture actually teaches about rebuilding trust after betrayal

If you’ve ever felt pressured to reconcile before you were ready…
If you’ve been told boundaries mean bitterness…
If you’re navigating family betrayal or church-related relational tension…

This episode will give you language, clarity, and permission to move wisely.

Scripture is not just spiritual inspiration.
It is a blueprint for human behavior.

🔗 CONNECT + NEXT STEPS

If this resonated, here’s where to go deeper:

• Join the community + Weekly Note
• Explore coaching with Jon or Ashley
• Follow on Instagram & TikTok: @leave_then_cleave
• Watch full episodes on YouTube: @Leave_Then_Cleave

And if this episode helped you, please follow the show and leave a 5-star review. It helps this message reach more people navigating faith, boundaries, and healing.

Forgiveness is a decision.
Trust is a process.
Wisdom lives in the space between.

Have you ever tried to address a hurt, name a pattern, or set a boundary — and were told you were being contentious?

In many families, discomfort gets treated as spiritual danger. Hard conversations get shut down in the name of “keeping the peace,” and scripture is sometimes used to avoid accountability rather than invite growth.

But not all discomfort is contention.

In this episode, we explore the difference between contention and conviction, why truth often feels threatening inside family systems, and how spiritual language can unintentionally become a tool for denial, control, or emotional avoidance.

We talk about:
• why honest conversations feel wrong even when they’re right
• how families confuse harmony with health
• the difference between emotional safety and spiritual avoidance
• when “the Spirit is gone” actually means reality entered the room
• how to evaluate whether something is harmful… or simply true

If you’ve ever been accused of creating conflict when you were trying to create clarity, this episode will help you understand what’s really happening — and why growth often begins where comfort ends.

This episode is for anyone navigating family conflict, spiritual pressure, or religious guilt while trying to set healthy boundaries and tell the truth.

If this episode put words to something you’ve been feeling but couldn’t explain, I made a free reading guide for this community: leavethencleave.com/thereadingguide

We’re often taught that faith means holding families together at all costs.

But what happens when keeping the peace requires ignoring what’s true?

In this episode of Here’s the Lesson, we talk about the tension many people quietly live in — loving their family while feeling pressured to stay silent about patterns that hurt them. Not rebellion. Not bitterness. Conscience.

Jesus never taught that loyalty to family overrides truth. In fact, He warned that honesty would sometimes disrupt households. Not to destroy families, but to make healing possible.

We explore:
• the difference between forgiveness and access
• why honesty often gets labeled disrespect
• how guilt is used to maintain unhealthy patterns
• and how to follow Christ without losing compassion or clarity

If you’ve ever felt like the villain for telling the truth, this conversation is for you.

Join the Weekly Note

We send one short email each week expanding on these conversations — practical, grounded, and faith-centered.

👉 Join here: Link

Support the Podcast

If this episode resonated with you, follow the podcast and leave a review. It helps these conversations reach the people who feel alone in them.

This episode is a listener Q&A — real situations people are living through right now.

We talk through questions about toxic in-laws, going no contact with parents, when a spouse doesn’t see the problem, attending weddings or funerals during estrangement, and whether reconciliation is actually possible.

These aren’t clinical answers. They’re the conversations we wish we could have sat in on when we were navigating it ourselves.

Topics we cover:

• Boundaries when your spouse disagrees with you
• Starting low contact or no contact with parents
• Parents changing the narrative to family members
• Should you attend a wedding with estranged family?
• Going to an estranged parent’s funeral
• What reconciliation really requires

If you’re trying to decide what is healthy vs guilt-driven in your family relationships — this episode will help you think clearly.

Have a question you want us to cover in a future Q&A episode?
Send it to us through the link below or DM us. We read every one.

And if someone came to mind while listening, share this episode with them — sometimes language helps people have conversations they’ve been avoiding.

One of the most damaging misunderstandings in faith communities is the belief that talking about abuse is “gossip.”

In this episode, we break down the critical difference between gossip and truth, and how spiritual language is often used—intentionally or unintentionally—to silence survivors, protect harmful systems, and keep abuse hidden.

We explore:

• Why silence does not equal peace or holiness

• How abuse thrives when it’s mislabeled as “gossip”

• What scripture actually says about exposing darkness

• The difference between exposure, vengeance, and wisdom

• How faith can heal instead of control

If you’ve ever been told to “just forgive,” “stop talking about it,” or “protect the family/church,” this episode offers clarity, validation, and a healthier framework for truth-telling.

This conversation is for those navigating spiritual abuse, emotional manipulation, religious trauma, narcissistic family systems, and faith used to control rather than heal.

Truth spoken with wisdom isn’t gossip.
It’s the beginning of safety.

👉 Subscribe to our Weekly Note for reflections, resources, and episode drops designed to help you heal without losing your faith.

Jesus once gave a command that feels almost impossible when you’ve been deeply hurt:

“Love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you.”

These words weren’t spoken to people in safe, healthy relationships.
They were spoken to the wounded. The betrayed. Those who had every reason to harden their hearts.

In this episode, we slow that teaching down.

We talk about what Jesus was not asking—
and what He was teaching about boundaries, prayer, bitterness, and remaining holy in unholy situations.

We explore:

• Why prayer does not mean reconciliation or access

• What to do when you can’t walk away and no one believes you

• How Christ modeled this teaching from the cross itself

• And why loving your enemy is about preserving your soul—not excusing harm

This conversation is not about spiritualizing abuse or silencing truth.
It’s about discipleship that is honest, grounded, and anchored in Christ.

If this episode resonates with you, we’d love to stay connected.
👉 Subscribe to our Weekly Note for deeper reflections, episode updates, and resources for navigating faith, boundaries, and healing.
👉 Follow us on social media @Leave_Then_Cleave to continue the conversation.

You don’t have to carry this alone.
And you don’t have to rush healing to be faithful.

Being the “peacemaker” in a family is often praised — but in unhealthy systems, that role can quietly lead to anxiety, resentment, and exhaustion.

In this Here’s the Lesson episode, we explore how peacemaking can shift from genuine reconciliation into emotional self-abandonment, especially in families shaped by control, conflict avoidance, or spiritual manipulation.

If you learned to stay calm, smooth things over, or absorb tension so others didn’t have to — this conversation offers clarity without blame.

We talk about:

• Why peacemaking often starts as survival

• The emotional cost of managing other people’s reactions

• How faith is sometimes used to confuse peace with silence

• Why Jesus told the truth even when it disrupted systems

• The difference between false peace and real peace

This episode is for anyone navigating:
family systems, emotional boundaries, spiritual abuse, people-pleasing, faith and healing, or the exhaustion that comes from always being “the calm one.”

Peace isn’t the absence of conflict.
It’s the presence of truth.

Note: We are grateful you are here with us! If this episode resonated with you, we would love for you to leave a review or give us a follow here as well as on our social media channels. It will help our message reach more people like you.

Forgiveness is one of the most misunderstood—and most weaponized—concepts in faith communities.

In this episode, Jon and Ashley dismantle the damaging belief that forgiveness requires forgetting, excusing harm, or immediately reconciling with people who continue to hurt you.

Drawing from their own journey through family estrangement, boundary-setting, and spiritual healing, they explore the critical distinction between forgiveness and reconciliation—and why confusing the two keeps people stuck in guilt, resentment, and unsafe relationships.

You’ll hear:

• Why forgiveness is for you, not a free pass for others

• How “forgive and forget” is often used to avoid accountability

• Why you cannot forgive someone who is actively harming you

• How boundaries are not un-Christlike—but essential

• Why forgiveness is a process, not a moment

• How the Atonement of Jesus Christ applies not just to repentance—but to healing, grief, anger, and emotional trauma

This conversation is especially for those navigating:

• Family estrangement or no-contact decisions

• Faith-based pressure to reconcile prematurely

• Guilt for “not forgiving fast enough”

• The emotional toll of repeated boundary violations

Forgiveness does not mean access.
Forgiveness does not erase truth.
Forgiveness does not require reconciliation.

It does require honesty, courage, and—often—time.

If this episode resonated, we share deeper reflections, tools, and behind-the-scenes insights in our Weekly Note.
👉 Subscribe to our email list (click here) to stay grounded, informed, and supported.

🎧 Follow the Podcast
If you haven’t already, follow the podcast so you don’t miss future episodes on boundaries, faith, healing, marriage, and emotional maturity.

📲 Connect With Us on Social Media
We share daily short-form teachings and conversations on Instagram and TikTok.
Follow Leave Then Cleave for continued support between episodes.

💬 Reach Out
If you’re walking through something similar, you’re not alone. You’re always welcome to message us—we read far more than we can respond to, but we see you.

Forgiveness is one of the most misunderstood teachings in faith communities — and for many people, that misunderstanding has caused more harm than healing.

In this Here’s the Lesson episode, we explore why forgiveness has so often been taught as immediate reconciliation, emotional closure, or spiritual maturity — and how that definition leaves survivors feeling confused, ashamed, and unsafe.

If your body still reacts, if setting boundaries feels necessary, or if forgiveness feels impossible right now, this episode offers clarity without condemnation.

We talk about:

• The difference between forgiveness and reconciliation

• Why forgiveness is an internal process, not restored access

• How faith can be used to heal rather than control

• Why Jesus forgave freely and still set boundaries

• How honoring what’s still healing can be an act of wisdom, not failure

This episode is for anyone navigating:
spiritual abuse, emotional manipulation, family systems, boundaries, faith and healing, or the pressure to “forgive and move on” before it’s safe.

Forgiveness can free you.
Boundaries can protect you.
You don’t have to choose one or the other.

Note: If this episode resonates with you, we would love for you to follow our podcast, give us a rating, or follow us on social media so we can keep the dialogue going. Regardless of whether you do those things or not... know that we are grateful you are here with us. Hope you will join us again soon.

What happens when kindness comes with expectations?

In this mini episode of Here’s the Lesson, we explore how giving—especially in families—can quietly turn into obligation, control, or resentment when it’s tied to unspoken expectations.

This conversation isn’t about blame.

It’s about honesty, boundaries, and learning the difference between love that’s freely given and love that’s conditional.

If these conversations matter to you, we share a weekly note with deeper reflections on faith, boundaries, and truth. You’re welcome to join us. ⁠Click here⁠ for more.

Also, A Favor to Ask: If this episode, or any of our others resonate with you... Please subscribe and rate this podcast! It will help us reach others that need this message too!

What happens when faith—meant to heal, guide, and liberate—is used to control, silence, or shame?

In this episode, we dive into the often misunderstood topic of spiritual abuse and spiritual manipulation. We talk honestly about how gospel principles can be misapplied in families, churches, marriages, and faith communities—sometimes unintentionally, sometimes generationally—and the emotional and spiritual toll that can take.

This conversation isn’t about blaming or attacking people of faith. It’s about naming patterns that stop growth, distort truth, and disconnect us from our own agency—and from God. We explore how misuse of concepts like honor thy parents, turn the other cheek, and self-sacrifice can lead to anxiety, depression, resentment, and loss of self.

We also discuss how to recognize the difference between Christlike love and control, why boundaries are not unfaithful, and how learning to listen to your own inner compass can actually bring you closer to the Savior—not farther away.

This episode is for anyone who has felt confused, conflicted, or trapped in the name of “doing the right thing.” Take what resonates, leave what doesn’t, and know you’re not alone in the process of healing.

If these conversations matter to you, we share a weekly note with deeper reflections on faith, boundaries, and truth. You’re welcome to join us. ⁠⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠⁠ for more.

Also, A Favor to Ask: If this episode, or any of our others resonate with you... Please subscribe and rate this podcast! It will help us reach others that need this message too!

“Don’t judge” is one of the most quoted — and most misunderstood — phrases in Christian culture.

In this Here’s the Lesson mini episode, we unpack what Jesus actually taught about judgment, discernment, and accountability. Christ never asked us to abandon truth in the name of love. He warned against hypocrisy — not righteous judgment.

We explore the difference between condemning people and discerning fruit, why “don’t judge” is often used to deflect accountability, and how truth spoken with humility is not unchristian — it’s loving.

Here’s the lesson:
Discernment isn’t judgment.
Avoidance is.

Take what’s good. Leave the rest.

If these conversations matter to you, we share a weekly note with deeper reflections on faith, boundaries, and truth. You’re welcome to join us. Click here for more.

What did Jesus actually mean when He said, “turn the other cheek”?

For many, this teaching has been misunderstood—and misused—to encourage silence, endurance, and even compliance in the face of harm. In this episode of Here’s the Lesson, we slow down and place Christ’s words back into their original context.

This conversation explores the difference between refusing retaliation and refusing safety, how scripture can be weaponized to protect abuse, and why Jesus consistently modeled both love and wisdom.

Boundaries are not a lack of faith.

Peace is not passivity.

And Christ never asks us to endure abuse to prove our righteousness.

If these conversations matter to you, we share a weekly note with deeper reflections on faith, boundaries, and truth. You’re welcome to join us. ⁠Click here⁠ for more.

This isn’t a full episode — just a short reflection.

In this Here’s the Lesson segment from Leave Then Cleave, Jon explores why boundaries are often mislabeled as betrayal, especially in families and faith-based relationships.

Boundaries aren’t rejection.
They’re clarity.

If someone experiences your boundary as abandonment, it may be because they were used to access without accountability.

This is a reminder that love doesn’t require self-abandonment — and choosing health is not unchristlike.

Take what fits. Leave the rest.

If these conversations matter to you, we share a weekly note with deeper reflections on faith, boundaries, and truth. You’re welcome to join us. ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠ for more.

Also, A Favor to Ask: If this episode, or any of our others resonate with you... Please subscribe and rate this podcast! It will help us reach others that need this message too!

This isn’t a full episode — just a short reflection.

In this Here’s the Lesson segment from Leave Then Cleave, Jon explores the difference between peace and avoidance, especially when silence is mistaken for righteousness.

Forgiveness was never meant to erase truth.
And love was never meant to require self-betrayal.

This is a moment for anyone who’s been told that speaking up is unchristlike, that boundaries are prideful, or that naming harm means you lack faith.

Take what fits. Leave the rest.

If these conversations matter to you, we share a weekly note with deeper reflections on faith, boundaries, and truth. You’re welcome to join us. ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠ for more.

Also, A Favor to Ask: If this episode, or any of our others resonate with you... Please subscribe and rate this podcast! It will help us reach others that need this message too!

Welcome to Cleave — formerly The Living in Truth Project Podcast.

In this reboot episode, Jon and Ashley introduce what Cleave is all about: honest, long-form conversations on marriage, family dynamics, boundaries, healing, faith, and emotional health.

We share the story behind the name Cleave — what it means to leave what’s unhealthy and cleave to what’s true — and what you can expect from this new season, including topics like forgiveness, spiritual manipulation, triangulation, grief, and rebuilding your identity.

If you’re trying to break cycles, strengthen your marriage, and build a healthier life with clarity and truth… you’re in the right place.

🎧 New episodes weekly
💬 Send us your questions — future episodes may be Q&A style

If these conversations matter to you, we share a weekly note with deeper reflections on faith, boundaries, and truth. You’re welcome to join us. ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠ for more.

Also, A Favor to Ask: If this episode, or any of our others resonate with you... Please subscribe and rate this podcast! It will help us reach others that need this message too!

Wicked is not the story we all thought it was.
In this episode of Cleave, I break down the emotional and psychological layers inside one of Broadway’s biggest hits — and why its message hits differently as an adult.
We talk:
• the Wizard’s manipulation
• Glinda’s toxic charm
• the recipe for creating a scapegoat
• the cost of choosing integrity
• and why Elphaba is one of the most important “heroes” we have today
I also share how this story mirrors real patterns my wife and I have lived through — and why so many of us find ourselves cast as villains the moment we stand up to dysfunction.
If you’ve ever defied gravity in your own life, you’ll feel seen in this one.

What happens when the ideal of “eternal family” meets the reality of imperfection and grief? In this powerful episode, Jon Lefrandt reflects on the doctrine behind family, partnership, and divine order—through the lens of his own loss, love, and lived experience. A heartfelt look at what it means to cleave to one another, to God, and to the hope that no family is ever truly lost.