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Dive into the complete episode list for Cider Chat. Each episode is cataloged with detailed descriptions, making it easy to find and explore specific topics. Keep track of all episodes from your favorite podcast and never miss a moment of insightful content.

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TitlePub. DateDuration
476: Be Medieval, Rack that Cider| Secondary Fermentation05 Nov 202500:46:18

How to clarify, stabilize, and finish cider the right way

The Purpose of Secondary Fermentation when Making Cider

Once the apple juice has started fermented and it is now slowing down, it is time to rack over your cider for secondary fermentation.

Secondary fermentation is where your cider moves from "young" to "refined." This stage improves clarity, stability, and overall quality before bottling or serving.

00:00 – Introduction and Welcome
00:27 – Meet the Host: Ria Windcaller
00:45 – The Magic of Clothes Pins
01:14 – Episode Overview: Secondary Fermentation
01:55 – Replay Announcement: Season 8, Episode 386
02:14 – Cider Making in the Northern Hemisphere
02:34 – Cider Making Resources and Equipment
06:09 – Totally Cider Tours
13:29 – Upcoming New York Cider Festival
15:31 – Featured Presentation: Clearing Cloudy Cider
24:01 – Observing Fermentation Activity
24:21 – Timing and Patience in Cider Making
24:54 – Understanding Racking Over
25:32 – Dealing with Stuck Fermentation
26:59 – Secondary Fermentation Indicators
27:47 – Preparing for Racking Over
29:13 – Racking Over Process
30:49 – Using Sulfites and Equipment
35:32 – Handling Head Space and Lees
38:38 – Final Tips and Bottling
42:43 – Supporters and Closing Remarks

Why Secondary Fermentation Matters

Secondary fermentation helps your cider:

Improve the overall quality and characteristics of the final product during secondary fermentation by;

Clarify: After the vigorous primary fermentation phase, yeast, pulp, and particulate matter settle out. Giving the cider time in secondary creates that clean, bright look in the glass.

Stabilize: Letting the cider relax in a less active fermentation state helps smooth out rough edges and reduces the risk of funky off-character flavors.

Reduce Bottle Sediment: Most of the lees settle in the secondary fermenter — not in your final bottles — giving you a cleaner, professional-looking cider.

Avoid Off-Flavors: Yeast that sits too long on the lees can break down (autolyze) and create harsh, unpleasant aromas. Racking to secondary moves the cider off that yeast layer and protects the finished profile..

Secondary fermentation is a crucial step for refining cider, enhancing its clarity, taste, and stability before it is consumed or sold.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/386-Feature-.jpg?ssl=1 Past Cider Making Episodes When to Transfer to Secondary

Primary fermentation must be substantially complete. Signs include:

– Airlock activity slows way down
– Gravity readings stabilize over several days
– Visible bubbling is minimal
– A firm lees bed is forming at the bottom
– Taste test confirms sugar is mostly gone (unless aiming for sweet

Equipment needed for Cider's Secondary Ferment

Find a complete list with links to purchase at the Cider Making Equipment page at ciderchat.com

  • Extra Apple Juice to for topping off
  • Secondary Fermenter – glass carboy of equal size
  • Airlock and Bung
  • Racking Cane or Auto-Siphon
  • Sanitizer
  • Hydrometer or Refractometer
  • Tubing & a clothes pin ( a Ria tip to have on hand for clamping tubing as you go so it can be managed to insure that the tube doesn't slip down into the lees and stir them up)
  • Bottle Brush and Cleaning Equipment
https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/476-200-x-300-px.png?ssl=1 Determining when Secondary Fermentation Begins
  • Completion of Active Primary Fermentation: Watch and notice when the vigorous phase of primary fermentation is complete, which is typically indicated by a significant decrease in airlock activity or specific gravity readings that are close to the target final gravity.
  • Gravity Readings: Use a hydrometer or refractometer to take consecutive gravity readings over a few days. When readings are consistent, it suggests that fermentation has slowed down enough for secondary transfer.
  • Visual Clues: Look for a drop in the level of visible activity, such as the reduction of bubbles and the beginning of sediment formation at the bottom of the primary fermenter.
  • Taste Test: Conduct a taste test for residual sweetness. If the cider is too sweet, it may need more time in primary fermentation unless the desired style of cider is sweet rather than dry.
  • Timeframe Guidance: Generally, primary fermentation can take anywhere from a few days to two weeks, depending on factors like temperature, yeast strain, and original sugar content.
  • Avoiding Off-Flavors: Transfer before the cider has sat too long on the lees at the bottom of the carboy to prevent off-flavors that can result from yeast autolysis.
  • Specific Style Goals: Factor in the specific goals for the cider's style, as some styles may benefit from a longer or shorter primary fermentation before secondary.
  • Equipment Availability: Ensure that the secondary fermentation vessel is prepared and sanitized before deciding on the transfer to avoid any delays once the cider is ready.
Common Problems during Secondary Ferment
  • Stalled Fermentation – Adjust fermentation temperature to optimal range.
  • Excessive Oxidation – Minimize headspace and avoid splashing when transferring.
  • Contamination – Practice stringent sanitation and possibly discard contaminated batch.
  • Sulfite Burn – Allow time for dissipation or use activated carbon treatment.
  • Insufficient Carbonation – Verify yeast viability and sugar availability; maintain proper bottle conditioning temperature.
  • Sediment in Bottles – Allow full clearing in secondary, use fining agents, and bottle carefully.
  • Unexpected Flavor Changes – Allow time for maturation or blend with another batch.
  • Pressure Build-up in Containers – Use an airlock or periodically vent the container.
  • Cider Becomes Too Dry – Monitor gravity to stop fermentation at desired sweetness or back-sweeten with non-fermentable sweeteners.
Mentions in this Cider Chat
475: At the UK's National Perry Pear Centre and the Story Behind 99PINES29 Oct 202500:43:52

Perry making has deep roots in Gloucestershire, stretching back to the 17th century when French wine imports were cut off during the Napoleonic Wars. Local farmers turned to their own fruit, and the rich soils around Hartpury proved ideal for growing Perry pears.

This episode features audio snapshots from the 2025 Totally Cider Tour stop at the National Perry Pear Centre. Our guide, Phil Kester, volunteers with 99PINES , where he helps preserve the region's rare Perry pear varieties. Phil's passion for Perry and deep local knowledge made this visit one of the tour's highlights.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/475-feature-.jpg?ssl=1 The Roots of the National Perry Pear Centre
  • Charles Martell recognized that Perry orchards across Gloucestershire were disappearing and began documenting rare varieties.
  • His work led to the first National Perry Collection at the Malvern Three Counties Showground, planted with Tom Oliver and others.
  • Jim Chapman later expanded the effort by gifting land at Hartpury. This site is The National Perry Pear Centre and is home to over 100 Perry pear varieties from Gloucestershire and beyond.
  • These orchards safeguard living history, connecting generations through the craft of Perry making.
The 99PINES Project

The name 99PINES comes from the line of pines atop nearby May Hill, often called the heart of English Perry country.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/475-Phil-Kester-of-99PINES-with-bottles-of-Perry.jpg?ssl=1 Phil Kester of 99PINESS

Phil and the volunteers at 99PINES are working to:

  • Create a local hub to promote Perry culture in pubs and communities.
  • Build a tasting space featuring 80–100 Perry varieties for education and enjoyment.
  • Keep the project sustainable by reinvesting proceeds into orchard care and heritage initiatives.
The Art and Challenge of Perry Making

Perry is both art and patience.

  • The fruit can rot within days, demanding precise timing at harvest.
  • Perry ferments differently from cider and is more sensitive to bacteria.
  • Varieties like Blakeney Red and Hartpury Green reveal a range of tannins and textures unique to Perry.
  • Phil experiments with bottle conditioning and Pet Nat methods, showing how diverse and expressive Perry can be.
Contact info for National Perry Pear Centre and 99PINES Mentions in this Cider Chat
466: Growing Cold-Hardy Trees at Saint Lawrence Nursery | NY30 Jul 202501:18:06
A Century of Cold-Hardy Trees

Saint Lawrence Nursery in Potsdam, NY, has been helping cold-climate growers find success since the 1920s. Originally founded by Fred Ashworth and later expanded by Bill MacKentley, the nursery is now stewarded by Connor and Allyssa Hardiman, the third generation in a nonfamilial succession.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/466-Allyssa-Connor-in-orchard-200x300-1.jpg?ssl=1 What Sets Saint Lawrence Nursery Apart

Cold-Hardy Genetics

  • Over 250 apple varieties
  • Trialed at temperatures as low as -34°F
  • Trees that thrive from Alaska to Michigan

Only Standard Rootstock

  • Seedling Antonovka (apples) and Baccata (crabs) for resilience and longevity
  • Trees that can live 100+ years

More Than Apples

  • Black walnuts, butternuts, hazelnuts, and berry bushes
  • Custom grafting for heirloom preservation
  • Regionally adapted selections from partnerships and testing plots
Passing the Torch of Generational Wisdom and Branding

The nursery was handed down without a sale. It was gifted by Bill to Connor in a rare act of agricultural generosity. The plan is to do the same one day. "Love is what makes the world go 'round," Bill often says, and it's embedded in every tree tag and planting guide.

Cold Hardy Trees For Orchardists and Backyard Growers

Most customers are small-scale planters or long-time loyalists. Whether you want just one tree to honor a grandparent or 100 cider apples for a startup orchard, Connor and Allyssa are here to help—with personal attention, a rich planting guide, and an option to let them choose the right tree for you.

Contact Info for Saint Lawrence Nursery Mentions in this Cider Chat
376: Orchard & Cider Variety Research at WHNO | Vermont09 Aug 202301:01:26
Walden Heights Nursery & Orchard (WHNO) was created in 1997

This 22 acre farm with 8 acres of orchards on a hillside outside of Hardwick, Vermont in the town of Walden was founded by Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak. It is a sustainably managed and certified organic fruit orchard and nursery. In this chat, we speak with both founders as they share the history and current educational offerings at WHNO.

Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak (w/ frozen jug of apple juice) at WHNO

We also discuss how WHNO was awarded a SARE (Sustainable Agricultural Research and Educational Project) grant to study: The evaluations of apple cultivars for hard cider production in the Northeast. The goal of the project as Todd Parlo states it, is "To increase the pool of possibilities for a cider maker. And to get numbers on the constituents of juices of a variety of apple cultivars."

  • 313 apple varieties from WHNO were tested during this project.

Todd in the Walden orchard

The study was completed and as of 2023 the results of the study can be reviewed via this link online.

Walk about the orchard with both Todd and Lori at WHNO and hear about just a few of the 600 apples varieties grown here.

Contact for Walden Heights Nursery & Orchard

Mentions in this Chat

375: Cider's Low Carbon Footprint | Wildbranch Cider, Vermont26 Jul 202300:59:51
Cedar Hannan began selling his ciders branded as "Wildbranch" in 2020.

He both forages apples and has a small orchard planted that he planted four years ago on his farm based in Craftsbury, Vermont. The ciders are both wild ferments and occasionally have cultured yeasts too.

He sells locally at Vermont farmers markets and doesn't have any immediate plans to increase his production which is currently at 900 gallons per year.

Cedar Hannan

The Low Carbon Footprint of Cider

Cedar was originally looking at brewing as a retirement goal, but (as he notes in this episode) there are already a fantastic number of breweries in the surrounding area. In addition, the carbon footprint of beer is a bit larger than that of making cider at a local scale. Thankfully for us all, Cedar went with his hunch and is making Wildbranch Cider his full time gig, having quit his IT job.

Each of the following is what Cedar looks for when foraging apples or pears for Wildbranch.

  • Flavor  - aroma
  • Tannin
  • Acidity
  • Sugar content
https://ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/375-wildbranch-cider-logo-.jpg Wildbranch Ciders tasted in the Episode
  • The Spiney - Flagship cider 6.8%
    • Try with cheddar cheese and grilled pork chop
  • Golden Russet 8.3%
    • Intense fruitiness, Little bit of cooked apple
  • Perry
    • Made with culinary pears - Barlett's and Big Earl (a local variety)

Perry

Contact for Wildbranch Cider

Mentions in this Chat

374: Bonus Episode! CCLive | NY Apple Camp News!19 Jul 202300:27:04
Bonus Cider Chat Live on NY Apple Camp

July 28th - 30th at the Ashokan Center in the Hudson River Valley (on the west side of river) is the first ever NY Apple Camp!

Elizabeth Ryan of Stone Ridge Orchard who is producing this event catches us up on the scheduled events and talks. 

 Special Kickoff tour

The weekend begins with an optional tour on Friday focusing on the life of Andrew Jackson Downing. The tour goes to the original site of the Downing Nursery and Downing Park. Then a 2 hour lunch with cider  and off to Esopus  - where the Esopus Spitzenberg originated from.

Hear about all the great happenings at NY Apple Camp 

The Friday tour is optional and there is a request for donations of $30.

Mentions in this Cider Chat Live
373: Orchard Tips for Cold Climates12 Jul 202301:15:17
Orchardist Ben Applegate on cold climate orchard care

Ben is the Orchard Manager at Eden Specialty Cider based in northern Vermont and shares his insight on cold climate apple varieties and orchard tips. This chat took place at Eden's orchards based in what is known as the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont in the town of West Charleston. 

Ben Applegate

There are 50 Apple varieties at the Eden orchard. Here is a list of just some of the apples discussed in this episode: 

  • Newton Pippin
  • Liberty
  • Stembridge Cluster
  • Rubinette
  • Northern Spy
  • Trembletts Bitter

Ben discusses which varieties work well in a cold climate, while recommending that as the temperatures continue to rise both in Vermont and globally, he advises to plant trial apples for the changes ahead.

Tips for new orchardists
  • Why you should do a Soil test before planting and what to do with that knowledge
  • Why pruning too early can offset young trees
  • Which apple tree damaging insects to worry about
In this Cider Chat episode:
  • We learn about the challenges faced by the young apple trees, such as sun scald and fluctuating temperatures
  • Scythe and Biological Mowing
  • How climate change is affecting traditional production of Ice Cider, which is made by freezing apple juice on the coldest days of the year to freeze the water and then ferment the pure apple juice into what is known as Ice Cider.
  • How acidity of the soil directly affects the acidity of the apples
  • Selection of apple varieties and rootstock is crucial
  • Dwarf tree management
  • Incorporating composted teas for apple trees 
  • The impact of author Micheal Phillips' work

Contact for Ben Applegate

Website: http://edenciders.com

email: mailto:ben@edenciders.com

Mentions in this Chat

372: The Science Behind Spontaneous Fermentation28 Jun 202300:59:33
Cider and Spontaneous Fermentation

The wild "ambient" yeast found on apples, in the air, on cider presses can all contribute to a spontaneous fermentation within the cider must, which is the juice that has been freshly pressed from a fruit such as apples or grapes and is fermenting. In this episode we hear from Hugues Guichard, who works at the Institut Français des Productions Cidricoles a research institute focusing on cider based in Normandy, France.

Hugues presented this lecture at CiderCon 2023, which is hosted by the American Cider Association.

Hugues Guichard at CiderCon 2023

Allowing a cider to go through a full spontaneous fermentation successfully is a growing trend within the industry as consumer continue to seek "natural" ciders. Hugues provides a complete overview of the French cider industry and the science behind spontaneous ferments.

  • Subscribe to the Cider Chat YouTube Channel to be notified when the  audio of this lecture synced with the power point slide show goes live to the public.
  • Become a Patreon and view video now
In this lecture
  • Part I: French Cider Industry and IFPC
  • Part II: French Cider ProcessingCider Apples and Harvest

    • Possible contamination by spoiling microorganisms

  • Clarification 
  • Fermentation 
  • Maturation
  • Bottling
  • Conclusion
Yeast mentioned in this presentation
  • Hanseniaspora is a genus of yeasts, when there is no sulphites in the must

  • Mechnikowia pulcherrima (Mp)

    • On apple and in must (often high population)

    • no development in anaerobioses

  • Hanseniaspora valbyensys (Hv) - apiculate yeast

    • On apple and in must, growth in must

    • 1 to 2 weeks then decreases

    • Sensibility to SO2

  • Saccharomyces uvarum (Su): fermentative yeast

Bacterias and yeasts in ciders that can create off flavors

  • Acetic acid bacteria (Acetobacter). Often described at Volatile Acidity (VA) which lends a vinegary taste to the cider

  • Zymomonas mobilis (bacteria). off flavors  such as rotten banana, vegetal aromas. There may be a haze formation, high pressure in bottles, and excessive foaming

  • Secundilactobacillus collinoïdes - lactic acid spoilage

  • Brettanomyces anomala - Volatile phenol

Begin with cidermaking best practices  

As expected best practices for all fermentation including a spontaneous fermentation require

  • Clean Fruit
  • Hygiene in the cidery
  • Temperature control

Contact for Hugues Guichard

Mentions in this Chat

371: Save Your Back! Mechanical Harvesting of Apples14 Jun 202300:59:52
Small, Medium and Large Scale options for Mechanical Harvesting of Apples

Cornell University Associate Professor of Horticulture Gregory Peck Ph.D and Angry Orchard Head Cidermaker Joe Gaynor provide an in depth study of mechanical tools for orchards of all sizes.

The presentation took place at CiderCon2023.

No need to be an orchardist to enjoy this topic on mechanical harvesting of apples. Some of these same tools presented are also used in vineyards for harvesting grapes. Particularly interesting for cider fans and makers alike, is the debunking the myth that apples that fall on the ground can't be used to make cider. Dr Peck provides a great overview on this topic.

Topics in the Mechanical Harvesting Presentation
  • Comparison of Cider Economies of New York, US and UK
  • Bush Cider Orchards - wide row spacing for mechanical harvesting
  • Cumulative Net Present Value (NPV) using Outsourced Machine Harvesting (~$300/acre)
  • Is it Profitable to Grow Cider Apples in NY?
  • The cost of hand picking - Labor in America
  • Cumulative NPV at Various Returns using Hand or Machine Harvesting
  • Tree-row sweeping and picking up
  • Harvesting off the ground
  • How mechanical harvesting impacts the fruit
  • Options for Small, Medium and Large scale operations
  • Conclusions of this study

Contact info for Gregory Peck

Mentions in this Chat

370: Innovative Ciders of Domaine Marois | France31 May 202300:51:57
Antoine Marois is Tantalizing the Taste Buds of Cider Fans

On a sloping hill on the east side of the picturesque village of Cambremer sits Domaine Marois. The lead up to the home is formidable with a long drive that leads to the barrel room and production facility for the Domaine. Behind the home is a majestic oak tree said to be over 300 years old.

Antoine Marois in the barrel room at the Domaine

It is here that Antoine and wife Marie Marois reside. Marie is a cider maker in her own right having taken the head cider maker position at Domaine Dupont.

The grand house at Domaine Marois

In this Chat
  • Where is Domaine Marois located – here we talk about the area.
    • – what to expect when visiting
  • Antoine journey to become a cidermaker after working first with wine.
      • What Antoine bring to cider that he learned from wine.
  • Why haute tige (standard size) trees are important.
  • How an orchard benefits from cows in the orchard
  • Types of Cider Styles at Domaine Marois.
    • Co-ferments
    • Barrels toasted with apple juice
    • wild yeast and cultured yeaast
      • What to expect in the glass
  • Visiting Domaine Marois
  • Future plans for Domaine Marois

300+ year old oak tree at Domaine Marois

Contact info for Domaine Marois

The moped in the barrel room at Domaine Marois

Mentions in this Chat

369: Baba Yaga & Holistic Orchards | NC17 May 202301:01:28
Discover Kordick Family Farm and Baba Yaga

Hear from Dorsey and daughter Brittany, the mother and daughter team at Korkdick Family Farm with Baba Yaga as their guide. Dorsey is a long time apple fan and even attended Peter Mitchell's cidermaking courses in the UK early on making her one of the first American's to take the UK course. Brittany studied agriculture and the two together make a dynamic team. Their main crop is apples and they apply holistic orchard practices.

Illustration for story of Kordick Family Farm called; Baba Yaga's Apples of Eternal Youth

In this Chat
  • The story behind Kordick Farm
    • Baba Yaga inspiration
  • How it works for a mother and daughter team – do you have help?
  • The orchard,
    • number of apple varieties and pear (southern apple varieties?)

Garlic growing between Apple Trees on top of the hay mulch

    • root stock that works.
    • orchard practices
      • What do you no longer do and what is working (why) in our warming climate
      • Root stock used for that climate

The Kordicks practice intercropping between apple trees

    • Who is your market
    • What you sell
    • Kordicks Esty story
  • Advice for new orchardist and women in particular who are interested in following a similar path.

Baba Yaga Renditions designed by Brittany Kordick

 

Contact info for the Kordick Family Farm

Website: https://www.kordickfamilyfarm.com/

Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/KordickFamilyFarm?ref=shop_sugg

Mentioned in this Chat

368: Who named this apple Northern Spy?10 May 202300:51:30
Spy Novels Step Aside for an Apple of a Tale

The Northern Spy is a delightful apple used both for baking and cidermaking! At one time it was a major export commodity due to its lack of bruising when packed in barrels. As far as apples go it is a winner for so many reasons, yet no one knows why it is named Northern Spy. there are certainly many hyposthesis on the subject. In episode 226: Northern Spy and the Underground Railroad Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider reads a fictional essay on the topic (do listen as it is grand).

Kerry Anne Wilkins

In this episode we hear from Apple Sleuth or self proclaimed "Malus Absurdum" Kerry Anne Wilkins who is on the trail of the Northern Spy. Professionally Kerry works as a hospice nurse, but her love of apples and set her on a journey to find the story behind the naming of the Northern Spy.

Herman Chapin is responsible for propagating the Northern Spy

In this Chat
  • Meeting the John Bunkers, a premier Apple Detective
  • What we know so far about the Northern Spy's history
  • Apple Sleuthing tips
    • Libraries
    • Oral History
    • Newspaper
    • Cemeteries
    • Land maps
  • Tracking the Northern Spy to East Bloomfield, New York
  • A Martha Steward faux pas that needed to be corrected
  • The Northern Spy marker in East Bloomfield
  • Herman Chapin and the Chapin family connection to the Northern Spy

] East Bloomfield road marker reads:

The original Northern Spy Apple Tree Stood about 14 Rods south of this spot in a seedling orchard.
Planted by Herman Chapin about 1800
The Early Joe and Melon Apple also originated in this orchard.

The quest continues

Kerry is still on the quest to discover the history of the Northern Spy and hopefully the reason why this apple was named as such. If you have info please send it along her way. Recipes, book mentions, oral tales are all welcomed.

Contact info for Kerry Anne Wilkins

email: kawwilkins@yahoo.com

Want Kerry's postal address to send a letter? Contact info@ciderchat.com

Mentions in this Chat

  • Listen to episode 290 with Tattiebolge CiderWorks Acme, Pennsylvania - as mentioned in this episode it is building out!
  • Canuck Cider Cup winners for 2023
  • Who is John Bunker America's Apple Detective? There are many episodes with John feature. Begin with this one  https://ciderchat.com/028-john-bunker-apple-identification/ and then google Cider Chat John Bunker for more from this American treasure of a man!
  • Bottles on My Desk - Listen to the latest episode at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel via playlist "bottles on my desk"
367: Get Out of Jail Free Card w/Cider03 May 202300:57:09
Weed, to Jail, and Freed by Cider

There are so many title options for this episode, that all center around time spent in jail for one burgeoning cidermaker. "Busted Weed Grower Saved by Cider", was one that almost made the cut.  But this podcaster wanted to find something uplifting for Sean McFarland who was a cannabis grower ,who did get busted and was from all accounts able to survive prison life due to support from his family and a new found passion for all things cider. This tale has all the predicable twists and turns one would expect when a big weed grower ends up in jail, but what makes this story completely unique is Sean himself.

As Sean sees it, if you are satisfied with your life as it is now why regret what got you there. His optimism plays a lead role in his narrative and that alone is worth a listen.

  Sean and his then future wife who rekindled a childhood friendship while he was in jail

In this Chat
  • Sean's journery from army brat to horticulture studies, squash growing and then cannabis
  • Behind the scene of a mega pot bust
  • Federal laws and Jail terms for cannabis growers
  • Preparing for prison life
  • Family matters
  • Finding love while in prison
  • Finding cider
  • No regrets
  • Minnesota law for felons who want to start a cidery

Sean and family in legally grown hemp[/caption]

Contact for Blackshire Farm Cider

Website: https://www.blackshirefarms.com/

] Sean working old family cider mill that has been rigged with salvaged parts

Mentions in this chat

  • Send your questions to info@ciderchat.com about fermentation and yeast for an upcoming Q&A with Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews
465: The Integrated Table: Cider, Food, and Farming at 1000 Stone Farm16 Jul 202501:21:15
From Farm to Glass: Cider at 1000 Stone Farm

At 1000 Stone Farm in Brookfield, Vermont, Kyle Doda and Betsy Simpson have built a dynamic model that unites organic farming, community-supported agriculture, small-batch cider. First came the farm and then over ten years, the couple expanded their offerings to include fruit trees, livestock, mushrooms, and now a seasonal restaurant and tasting room: The Farmers Hand Cider House & Kitchen. Besty is the Chef and a graduate of the Culinary Institue of Arts in New York.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/465-besty-and-kyle-200x300-1.jpg?ssl=1 Besty Simpson and Kyle Doda The Orchard & Philosophy

Situated between 1,400–1,700 feet in elevation, the farm grows:

  • Over 60 varieties of apples
  • Plums, peaches, cherries, and Perry Pears
  • Herbs interplanted with vegetables and orchard rows
  • Livestock including lamb, pork, beef, and poultry
  • And there is a dedicate grow space for a mushroom buisness

Fruit is fermented on-site with minimal sulfites, both neutral and spirit oak barrels, and some filtered fresh juice for back-sweetening. The cidery prioritizes clean expressions of fruit and soil.

Ciders Tasted During this Recording
  • Volume One – Off-dry, barrel-aged, lightly back-sweetened
  • Volume Two – Dry blend with Winesap, Kingston Black, Northern Spy
  • Volume Three – Porter's Perfection and Ashmead's Kernel
  • Tomcat – Gin barrel-aged cider, 10% ABV
  • Graf – A farmhouse cider-beer hybrid aged in oak
https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/465-Kyle-doda-with-cider-fermentation-record-book.jpg?ssl=1 Gathering at The Farmers Hand

Open seasonally, The Farmers Hand Cider House & Kitchen features hyperlocal meals built around the farm's own produce and meats. The space invites locals and visitors to connect over cider, community, and shared tables.

There is seating at the bar and also outside on a brand new patio for the 2025 season.

Contact Info for 1000 Stone Farm and The Farmers Hand Cider House & Kitchen
  • Website: https://www.1000stonefarm.com
  • Farm Store: Open daily, 8am–8pm (self-serve)
  • The Farmers Hand: Seasonal hours; check website or Instagram for updates
    • June through December Fridays 1-8pm & Saturdays 1-8pm
  • Location: Brookfield, Vermont
What is 1000 Stone Farm? What is The Farmers Hand Cider House & Kitchen? Can I visit the farm or tasting room? What kinds of cider are made at the farm? Who makes the food and cider? Mentions in this Cider Chat
366: Acclaimed Cider w/Minimal Intervention Tom Oliver26 Apr 202301:02:47
Not only is the cider acclaimed, so too is the Maker

Tom Oliver is just as acclaimed as his cider which makes Oliver's Cider and Perry Co. a global hit on two fronts. He is affable, engaging and knows his way around social media likely due to his work with the Scottish Rock Rock Band, The Proclaimers. Cidermakers are not well known for reposting news stories about themselves and their product, but Tom is a master of this one simple act that keeps Oliver's in the news and endears him to media. That singular step alone is just one of many giveaways that Tom provides to the slow moving cider industry.

This topic is key for makers looking to up level their online presence, but it was not the topic of conversation in this episode. Instead Ria and Tom caught up after the world shut down for the past 2 plus years at CiderCon 2023 held in Chicago.

In this chat
  • How minimal intervention is key for Oliver's Cider and Perry
  • What is Farmhouse cider
    • Spontaneously fermented - wild yeast
    • Tannic cider and Perry Pears

At Oliver's there is no measuring of sugar or fiddling with the cider. In fact, Tom can be heard in most interviews saying "Don't fiddle with cider."

What's new for this acclaimed makers and cidery?
  • More c0-ferments and collaborations!
  • Bâtonnage
    • This is a technique used by winemakers, where the lees (yeast cells) are stirred into solution.
      • Nano proteins are the biggest benefit of Bâtonnage
        • They release into the cider providing a perception of sweetness and body with out the sugar
      • Need at least 9 months to a year to get the nano proteins

      There are short term benefits.

      1. Yeast produces less carbon dioxide and bubbles.
        • They slow down after the first primary ferment.
        • Fermentation may have stopped but there is still sugar left.
      2. Lees absorb off aromas, except for H2S rotting egg smell.
      3. Bâtonnage helps to maintain a reductive state.
        • Full reduction - rotting smell is a type of reduction. Which helps protect the cider from oxidization and protect the flavor components.

Find out more about Bâtonnage by going to Episode 233: Ask Ryan Quarantine Quad Series where Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider in Prince Edward County Canada provides an in depth overview of Bâtonnage and Maderisation (where the barrels are cooked).

Contact info for Oliver's Cider and Perry Company

Mentions in this chat

  • Send your questions to info@ciderchat.com about fermentation and yeast for an upcoming Q&A with Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews
365: A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider19 Apr 202300:59:29
Is Cider Truly Indescribable?

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

In this indescribable Chat
  • Richie Brady's background
  • Difficulties in describing taste: Language
  • Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
  • Considering Cider's Lexicon

Mentions in this Chat
  • @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
  • April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.

364: If the Mandalorian Tended Orchards12 Apr 202300:55:01
The Way of the Orchards

Colin Scott has spent his life in orchards, learning how to tended them with his parents, Edward and Janice as role models.  This episode is a testament of what it looks like to embody a craft as part of your way of life. Colin like many orchardist may not be a Mandalorian, a character from Star Wars who is now featured in a stand alone tv series depicting a a clan-based culture composed of members from multiple species and bound by a common creed, language and code, but he like many orchardist who grew up tending trees from an early age see orchard care as A Way of Life.

This episode first released in Season 2 of Cider Chat on episode 093 and was re-produced for Season 8. The info is evergreen and timely for those of us who love orchards and want to broaden our own knowledge base.

E.J. Scott Orchard was purchased in 1954. (Note that the first initial of Colin's parents in the business name) Today Colin is running the orchard and the apple storage facility site which is discussed at the beginning of this episode. E & J Scott Orchard also has apricots, blackberries, blueberries, cherries, grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, plums, quince, raspberries, & strawberries. Their main store is in Ashfield, MA and is open Sat & Sun 10-6 July through May. Organic duck eggs from their heritage breed Ancona ducks are also available upon request.

Colin using his dad's grafting tool

We begin this chat with Colin inside one of the Apple storage rooms.

What affects the Apple's ripening?
  • temperature
  • ethylene gas - apples off gas
  • Apples are placed in a CA room (Controlled Atmosphere) where both temperature, oxygen and the off gases are controlled.

If apples don't have oxygen they don't ripen. Colin and I discuss the "delicate" process of storing apples or what he called "putting them to sleep".

Apple storage tip: Take your apples out of the refrigerator every once in a while and let them off gas. That will help them last a bit longer.

New and old grafting tools

Next in this chat we talk about
  • the beginnings of the orchard and what they grew and where they are going with the growing cider market
  • Root Stock for grafting a tree - dwarf or standard
  • Shifting his market to cider apples
  • What do you look for in a root stock

"The idea behind grafting is to take the variety that you want and put it on the root stock you want. The vigor of the variety contributes to the size of the tree."

The numbering system of the root stock defines the size of the tree or a percentage of the size of the tree

  • M rootstock 9, 11, 18, 26 what does that stand for? If you put a Macintosh on standard tree rootstock and a Macintosh on a 26, you would get 30 -40-% of the standard one. A M118 or M111 are going to be 6--70% the size, which means they will be almost as big as a standard tree.

Today Colin is using Geneva root stock, because he is finding it resistant to Fire Blight. A nasty disease that can kill the tree.

Geneva root stock numbering system is random too. Colin is using Geneva 41 & 935. They will be 30-40% of the standard tree. He uses a bench graft on his root stock.

The secret to grafting per Colin
  • Lining up the cambium layers
  • Getting it airtight

We also chat pruning an apple tree, especially a tree that you are attempting to revive after years of neglect.

Contact E & J Scott Orchard

Mentions in this chat

  • Oesco, Inc - professional grade supplies for orchards and cidermakers.

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

 

363: Exploring Cider Using 33 Books Flavor Wheel05 Apr 202301:02:00
The Founder behind 33 Books Company

Dave Selden created 33 Books to help all of us track our favorite and not so favorite beverages! He is a graphic designer by trade, but soon found himself making tasting note books as a hobby which soon became a full time print business. The design of the note book for Cider called 33 Mugs of Cider provides an easy to follow script that one can refer back to again and again.

In this Chat

Dave and Cider Chat MC Ria Windcaller taste and make notes on a cider and perry from the Pacific Northwest maker Alma Cider. In this podcast episode, the conversation focuses in on the cider and how to use the tasting notebook - 33 Mugs of Cider. There is an additional option where you can watch and listen to the full conversation which was videoed at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel. In the video, Dave and Ria also go taste an Alma Perry, made with perry pears.

  • Learn how to use a flavor wheel
  • Learn the 3 key components to decipher in any cider
    • Acid
    • Tannin
    • Sweetness
  • How to describe body
  • Get pro-tips on tasting cider, i.e., at what temperature is best?

Contact info for 33 Books Co.

Mentions in this Chat

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

362: The Lost Boy Cider Journey | Virginia29 Mar 202300:57:10
Tristan Wright the Lost Boy who Cider Found

[ Tristan Wright on the French Cider Tour

Tristan and Katie Wright are the owners of Lost Boy Cider, and now also the Lost Girl Wine brand, based in Alexandria, Virginia.  Discover the journey of Tristan, a reluctant banker that developed a gluten intolerance and then found his place in cider.

Katie Wright making Lost Girl Wine

Lost Boy Ciders and Set up
  • Urban cidery
  • Tasting Room next to production facility
  • Judgement Free - Inclusive Zone
  • 20 Ciders on Tap
  • Sugar free, unpasteurized un filtered cider
  • Apples from Glaize family in Virginia

Contact info for Lost Boy Cider

Mentions in this Chat

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

361: Is Sulfur Dioxide Necessary for Making Cider | CiderCon 202322 Mar 202301:05:04
Is Sulfur dioxide (SO2) a natural part of Fermentation?

In this episode pre-recorded at CiderCon 2023, you'll get to hear from cider makers who will share their knowledge and expertise on the topic of sulfur dioxide cider.  Plus, you'll learn about the safety and health implications of adding SO2, as well as the legal limits for different markets.

In this episode:

1. What are the potential benefits and drawbacks of using sulfur dioxide (SO2) in the cidermaking both in the US and the UK.

2. How has the ban of BPA in California impacted the cider industry and what have can manufacturers done to adjust?

3. What strategies can winemakers and cider makers use to ensure their products are properly protected against oxidation and microbial spoilage?

4. Makers conclusion on whether SO2 is necessary for making cider.

SO2 Panelists and Contact info

(l to r) Tim Godfrey, Dave Takush, Teagan Bium, Tom Oliver

Mentions in this Chat

  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 
  • Carbonic Maceration for making cider - Revel Cider - Canada
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

360: Taproom and Hospitality Tips | CiderCon 202315 Mar 202301:00:41
Everything in the taproom should be adjustable

This Taproom Tips workshop was presented at CiderCon 2023 by Katie Black and Megan MacLean and it is packed with info!

In this episode

  • A four prong approach to brand identity
  • How to respond to taproom reviews
  • 3 key factors when building culture for a taproom
  • Hiring tips and training tips
  • The timeline of a tasting room
  • Recruiting systems and training
  • Interview tips from Meghan
  • Integrating future growth in your design
  • Draft systems
  • The "secret" dishwasher
  • Polishing your glassware - do you have space?
  • Cider cocktails set up
  • The flow behind the bar design
  • Bathrooms design
  • In house residencies - food trucks vendors
  • Bar Bible and what it should have
Who is Katie Black?

Katie entered the CiderCon® world in 2021 as of the first Kulture scholarship recipients. Her endless love for fermentation & product development peaked her curiosity on fruited ferments.

She calls the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountain town of Asheville, North Carolina home. Here, she also graduated from the Craft Beverage Institute of the Southeast with a Brewing, Distillation, & Fermentation degree.

Consulting has been part of the last 6 years for Katie in various realms of business, with a primary focus in the food & beverage world. The majority of her experience started within the brewing industry; from business openings, management, & even working her way into the cellar. This landed her with reopening & rebranding the original taproom at Artifact Cider Project. Before that, you could find her working for DSSOLVR brewing and spending sunrises harvesting in the mountains. She currently is working as an assistant distiller at the notable amaro distillery, Eda Rhyne.

Contact for Katie Black

Who is Megan MacLean?

Megan MacLean is a hospitality operations consultant with 14 years of experience in restaurants and taprooms. She specializes in private events, recruiting, training programs, people management, and operational system design. Most recently, Megan served as the hospitality director for Artifact Cider Project. She has since launched a solo consulting business, aimed at improving the industry she has come to know and love. Megan lives in Boston and travels extensively, working with clients all over the country. 

Contact for Megan MacLean

Mentions in this Chat

  • Grafting Workshop at Brook Farm Orchard, Ashfield Massachusetts April 15, 2023 1-3 pm
  • Canuck Cider Cup - entries in by April 21, 2023
  • Revolution will not be Pasteurized - Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Co. 2023 keg tour
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

359: Vala's Cider for their 300,000 Annual Visitors | Nebraska08 Mar 202300:55:56
The Vala Family's Business Model

Tim Vala had a vision over 39 years ago to build a destination for family fun. It started with a Upick strawberry patch that grew into a pumpking patch, orchard. It then evolved into kid friendly rides and food stands. Vala's Pumpking Patch and Orchard is located to the southwest of Omaha and draws over 300,000 visitor per year during the months of September and October. The rest of the season it is closed so that workers can take care of the property, orchards, pumpkin patches and rides...and of course get ready for the next season's opening day.

During the height of the season 1000 seasonal workers are hired. During the off season 30+ employees staffed to maintain the grounds and prepare for the next season.

In the Chat

Meet Kelsey and David Donovan. Kelsey is one Tim and Jan Vala's three daughters. She is a co-owner and works at the COO and David is the head cidermaker.

Hear about:

  • The history behind Vala's
  • Vala's cider
  • The future for this enterprising family
Contact for Vala's Pumpkin Patch and Apple Orchard

Website: https://www.valaspumpkinpatch.com/

Mentions in this Chat

  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

358: Apple History, Terroir and Cider of New York | CiderCon 202301 Mar 202301:02:14
Newtown Pippin, Northern Spy and Esopus Spitzenberg apples and cider in New York

A pre-recorded seminar from CiderCon 2023 with 3 influential panelist based in New York.

[caption id="attachment_8097" align="aligncenter" width="200"] (l to r) Greg, Elizabeth, Ian, Ria[/caption]

Hear from:

  • Elizabeth Ryan a Hudson Valley resident and owner of six historic farms, three of which are orchards.
  • Gregory Peck PhD is a renowned pomologist and professor at Cornell University.
  • Ian Merwin PhD is a lifetime farmer and cider maker who has been growing apples and making cider since 1985.
In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. The historic proliferation of apple varieties in North America and the influence of indigenous communities on the Hudson Valley's apple industry.

2. The remarkable trade of Newtown Pippins from the Hudson Valley in the 18th and 19th centuries, and the wealth it brought to the region.

3. The revival of historic apple varieties in the Hudson Valley, such as Esopus Spitzenburg, Jonathan, and Northern Spy, and the unique characteristics of each.

https://ciderchat.com/358nyterrior/  Time Stamps to zone into this episode

[00:11:59]

Feature presentation on The History, Pomage and Terroir of New York's Ciders featuring 3 premier apples:

  • Newtown Pippin
  • Northern Spy
  • Esopus Spitzenberg
Mentions in this Chat
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

357: Purchase Cider Online | Press Then Press22 Feb 202300:51:09
Meet the Storie and Erik of Press Then Press

Storie Madrid first connected with Ria at Cider Chat via Twitter. In this niche market it is easy to get close to people of similar interests and passions. Storie has recently found out that she was gluten intolerant and was jumping down into the cider rabbit hole! Husband Erik was a craft beer fan who didn't need much convincing to get on the cider bus and join the fun. In 2018 Storie accompanied Ria on the first ever Totally Cider Tour to Normandy, France. In 2019, she and Erik went on the Monterey Cider Tour in California. They were on a mission to open a brick and mortar cider shop in Seattle. And now they are the proud owners of the online Cider Retail Store: Press Then Press!

At the CiderCon 2023, they were recognized by the American Cider Association as Cider Retailer of the Year!

The Silver Lining of Online Sales

Chris who founded the company a few years back approached the Madrids and struck a deal. The enterprising couple along with Storie's sister Ashley (who is a chef by trade) were able to hit the ground running and work through the pandemic offering select cider options.

400+ delicious ciders delivered to your doorstep!

Press Then Press offers ciders from the Pacific Northwest, which includes British Columbia (Canada) - the rest of the US and abroad. There is a wide assortment of offerings and as such they are able to take online purchases of ciders one step further.

Ask and you shall receive!

Want to do a tasting from a wide range of makers - The Madrids and Sister Ashley can set you up with a mix box, or a vertical tasting of one particular style. Their aim is to please your palate, so don't be shy about asking for a certain mix up of ciders. They can deliver your request with a smile!

Support  for Seattle's City Fruit

Erik is on the Board of Directors of  City Fruit a non profit that helps manage urban orchard in public parks and private homeowners. They collect upwards to 50,000 pounds of fresh fruit from the region. A % of Press Then Press's proceeds go to City Fruit.

Via the non profit, no fruit is wasted, especially apples and pears that are too bitter to be eaten. Those select pomes get sold to local makers to ferment making it a win/win for all. There is even an annual party and the two business share warehouse space making Press Then Press smell like a full on cider house in the fall.

Contact for Press Then Press

Mentions in this Chat
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

464: Czech Cider: From Roadside Apples to Cellar Ferments02 Jul 202501:10:01
A conversation with Czech Cider Fan Dan Samek

This episode brings us to the heart of Europe by way of Vermont. Ria sat down with Dan Samek, a cider enthusiast and home distiller from Prague, to talk about the evolving cider scene in the Czech Republic. They met at Kilowatt Park which is on the west side of the Connecticut River in White River Junction, Vermont.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/464-feature-200x300-1.jpg?ssl=1 Dan Samek

This was the first stop on the Cider Tour to Vermont and New York in May 2025.

In this Cider Chat featuring Czech Cider

1. A Fruitful History

  • The Czech Republic is rich with apples, pears, plums, and cherries and exports a lot of fruit.
  • For centuries, fruit trees lined roads to feed traveling soldiers. This is a legacy left from the  Barak times, in the 18th century

2. Cider by Way of Calvados

  • Dan journey to cider started while he was working at a French winery
  • He has an affection for Calvados and thus made cider to distill.
  • His process blends natural fermentation and dry yeast (He favors the yeast known as 72B).
  • The apples come from old trees in his one-acre garden-orchard near Prague.

3. Small Scene, Big Potential

  • Early cider makers in the Cech Republic began around 2007.
  • Prague had a cider shop (InCider) and a cider bar, but today you can find cider at most bars.
  • Cidrerie Kliment and Utopia are two standout producers—Utopia leans all natural.

4. Enthusiasts Leading the Way

  • Many Czech homes still have fruit trees.
  • Backyard fermenters use presses ranging from barrel-style to hydraulic.
  • Gardening clubs and university programs help spread knowledge.

5. Beyond Apples

  • Dan grows quince and medlars and has a Sorbus domestica tree in his orchard.
  • Morovia which is to the north of Prague has a Sorubus Domestic museum.
  • There's a growing appreciation for traditional and lesser-known fruits in fermentation.
Mentions in this Cider Chat Related

 

356: Holistic Fruit Growers Roundtable | Maine Apple Camp15 Feb 202300:59:06
Discover Holistic Growing Practices

Enjoy this roundtable discussion moderated by Glen Koehler with 4 holistic practitioners. This roundtable was recorded at Maine Apple Camp 2022.

Holistic Panelist

(l to R) Glen, Jason, Eric, Laura, Kevin

This talk was recorded at Maine Apple Camp.
  • Maine Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
  • It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
  • Go to MOFGA.org and join today!
Mentions in this Chat

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

355: CiderCon Recap and Awards 202308 Feb 202300:46:15
Chicago Cider Week, Cider Tours, Interviews, Awards and Cider Summit

The week of January 30th - February 4th was packed with cider related events all based in Chicago. CiderCon, the annual conference hosted by the American Cider Association kicked off on Tuesday the 31st with Cider Tours. In this chat Ria took two tours: the Bronzeville Tour in the morning and the Historic Tavern Tour in the afternoon.

On Wednesday the 1st of February workshops began and Ria interviewed upcoming guests on Cider Chat!

Later that same day the Cider Share is held, which is a time for commercial makers to taste a bevy of ciders from fellow makers.

Ria is the Producer and Host of Cider Chat

Mentions in this Chat

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Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

354: Preserving Historical Varieties of Apples & Pears01 Feb 202301:19:23
Are Historical Apple and Pears varieties at of becoming Extinct?

It appears it is not a question of if, when historical varieties are no longer with us as climate change and other mitigation factors such as land development and disease threaten prize pomes! This topic is discussed in this episode by a panel of well versed pome fans.

The Speakers on this Panel

  • Dan Newman hails from Palermo, Maine and has a keen interest in Pears from Maine. He is active in historical research that looks at records from county fairs. Each fair has the year and apple prized, and thus Dan can track what was grown where and when and by whom.
This talk was recorded at Maine Apple Camp.
  • Maine Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
  • It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
  • Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

Mentions in this Chat

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

353: Apple Historian John Bunker Q&A | Maine Apple Camp25 Jan 202300:58:59
Preservation Tips from an Apple Historian

John Bunker is a self identified Apple Historian and an Apple Detective, Author of numerous books on the topic of Apples and Founder of FEDCO Trees. In the previous podcast episode #352 John delivers an overview on the Successes and Challenges of the Maine Heritage Orchard over the past 10 years. This episode 353 is the Q&A that followed that address. Typically, it would be recommend that you listen to episode 352 before delving into the Q&A, but even out of sequence one will find John's witty and insightful comments on a range of apple topics worth a listen.

John Bunker

Q&A Topics in this Chat
  • Time line of planning and planting Trees
    • What John recommends doing differently
  • Found stories of people and migration patterns about the collection
  • Questioned if John knew of dump sites that are being used in this type of format
  • John helps to define Heirloom/Heritage Apples
  • Genetics of Apples and seeds
  • Climate change and the future of preserving rare vareities
  • Legacy in relationship to the work of apple today for tomorrow.
    •  
This talk was recorded at Maine Apple Camp.
  • Maine Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
  • It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
  • Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

Contact info for John Bunker

Episode 352 is Part 1 to this Q&A with John Bunker on the Maine Heritage Orchard.

Mentions in this Chat

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Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

352: Apples in Gravel? Maine Heritage Orchard | Part 118 Jan 202301:05:09
John Bunker on Maine Heritage Orchard: Successes and Challenges over the First Ten Years

This is Part 1 with John Bunker, who is both an author, Founder of FEDCO Trees, an Apple Historian and a key person behind the Maine Heritage Orchard. In this recording her the full presentation from John as recorded at Maine Apple Camp in August of 2022.

John Bunker speaking at Maine Apple Camp

Bunker's 7 Point Strategy to Seek out Apples

John Bunker moved to Maine when he was 21 years old and immediately fell for the state and collecting apples.

In the late 70s - early 80s  he began to learned about Maine's historic apple varieties. Seeking out apples requires a bit of stealth and an out going personality

1. Seek out mentors

2. Do cold calls - when seeing apples along the road

3. Introduced myself as "Hi I am John Bunker. You won't believe this but I am an apple historian."

4. Give talks at Garden Society and such and charge nothing. John bunker has a sliding scale from 1 mil to zero dollars for his talks.

5. Pass out Wanted Posters

6. Fairs and Events: Do a display of apples - it becomes a magnet for people to see.

7. Apple Identification for no charge and also payment

] John Bunker

In this Chat
  • The history of the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardners Association (MOFGA).
  • The orchards at the Common Ground Fair
  • Reclaiming land such as gravel pits
  • The History of the Maine Heritage Orchard
  • What is needed to sustain the Maine Heritage Orchard
This talk was recorded at Maine Apple Camp.
  • Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
  • It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
  • Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

Contact info for John Bunker

Episode 353 will feature Part 2 with John Bunker on the Maine Heritage Orchard.

Mentions in this Chat

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

351: Cidermakers' Roundtable | Maine Apple Camp11 Jan 202301:01:53
Enjoy this Roundtable Discussion w/4 makers from Maine

Kris Hogg formally of Perennial Cider Bar in Maine moderates this panel discussion that was held at the Maine Apple Camp in August of 2022. The topics are wide ranging:

  • cultivars/apples that you really like

  • anything that you haven't tried yet that you would like to experiment with?

  • life work balance from making to orchard care

  • yeast only using wild or also culture yeast in ciders?

  • cider as art vs science

  • Is there a Maine Cider Style?

Makers and Contact Info from this Roundtable

David Buchann | Portersfield Cider

Jared Carr | Cornish Cider Company

Zak Kaiser | Absolem Cider

Jon Stein | Fogtown Brewing Co.

This Roundtable was recorded at Maine Apple Camp.
  • Apple Camp is held biannually. The next camp will take place in 2024.
  • It is hosted by the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association.
  • Go to MOFGA.org and join today!

Bonus audio - 30 minute Q&A from this roundtable at the Cider Chat Patreon page. Join today and help keep #ciderGoingUP

Mentions in this Chat

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

350th Episode Celebration at Cider Chat04 Jan 202300:49:22
Season 7 and the Episodes of Cider Chat

This episode marks the 350th episode of this weekly podcast and the end of Season 7. The Nose and Ria sat down for a dinner chat and looked over the past season. The dinner was designed to be paired with a cider called Heirloom for an Austin cidery called Texas Keeper. In true Cider Chat style this delicious cider was one of many.

Cider's drunk during this Episode How to find Archived Episodes of Cider Chat
  • Download and listen to all past episodes mentions in this chat by going to the Cider Chat podcast page.
  • This epsiodes ends Season 7 of Cider Chat. Find all the Season's at the podcast page. There you will find also the show notes for each episode, links to the makers and featured guests and mentions made in each chat.

Mentions in this Chat

Help Support Cider ChatPlease donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

349: Super Power of Bradford Pear with Eliza Greenman21 Dec 202201:05:02
Any relation to the Greenman's of Mystic, Connecticut?

When fruit explorer and horticultural historian Eliza Greenman received a call from owners of an overgrown orchard asking if she was related to the Greenman's who planted said orchard, it took her as she says, "down the rabbit hole".  Greenman found that she was indeed distantly related to the orchard planters and took the job offer to restore the orchard. But that was only the beginning of the story that is still in process.

In this episode you will hear the Eliza Greenman's keynote address from the Maine Apple Camp which took place in August of 2022 which was titled Orchard Restoration and Pear Breeding.

Eliza Greenman's Keynote at Maine Apple Camp 2022

Bradford Pears

Pyrus calleryana, a.k.a. Bradford Pear or Callery Pears, is a type of ornamental pear tree that are commonly found in the United States. While they are often praised for their attractive white flowers and glossy green leaves, they have also gained a reputation as an invasive species.

Despite this negative reputation, Bradford Pears can actually be beneficial for cidermakers. Greenman explains that Bradford Pears make excellent root stock for top working pear varieties. Their hardy root systems can help to improve the overall health and vigor of the pear trees, which can be especially useful for cidermakers who rely on a consistent and high-quality harvest. In other words, while Bradford Pears may not be ideal for natural environments, they can be a valuable asset for those looking to cultivate pear trees for cider production.

In this Keynote
  • Dispelling the myth about "Pears for Heirs"
  • The benefits of Bradford Pear

"Bradford or Callery Pear is great for root stock. Don't cut it all the way down."

~Eliza Greenman

Contact for Eliza Greenman

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348: Family Inspirations | Storum Ranch Cider & Wine | CA14 Dec 202200:53:12
The Perfect Balance at Storum Ranch

Pauline and Bill Storum settled in Julian California after Pauline retired from the US Navy in 2013. Planting an orchard and vineyard on the outskirts of this apple town was rooted in their desire to get their son Kyle, who is autistic,  and has a love of round objects engaged. Plus, Bill has wonderful memories of learning about orchard care when he was in high school. Kyle may prefer to stay indoors, but Bill is loving what he call his babies - the apple trees in the orchard.

https://ciderchat.com/348storum/ Pauline and Bill Storum

In 2019, the county finally approved their plans and construction on their 81' x 36" steel building began that is both their production area and Tasting Room.  Just as they were getting ready to open their tasting room in 2021, the Covid-19 pandemic hit, allowing them to focus on perfecting their business and building.

Today you can visit the Tasting Room which is air conditioned ( a nice treat when the high desert heat kicks in) or step outside on the patio and enjoy a glass.

Ciders at Storum

All ciders are fermented to dry and are made primarily with the wild ambient yeast at the cidery.

They have both single varietal ciders and blends like Harrison and Campfield. The have set up tastings so that customers can compare the same blends from previous years and educate their palates.

Value Added Products at the Tasting Room
  • Wines
  • Basalmic vinegar
  • Olive oil
  • Try a delicious non-alcoholic with the shrubs they make at the cidery drink.
  • Cider Swag - hats and t-shirts
https://ciderchat.com/348storum/ Patio and outdoor seating at Storum Cider Hiking spots near Storum Ranch Cider & Wine

Grab a sandwich and snacks in Julian to bring out for a day hike after visiting the cidery.

  • Santa Ysabel is a 5 minute drive from the cidery. Find shade, picnic tables, porta potties by the parking lot at the trail head. A great place to have a snack, drink cider and go for a hike.
  • Volcan Mountain is a one hour hike and only a 2 minute drive from Storum. Bring layers! At the on road parking area it may be hot but at the view it can get down right chilly.

Contact info for Storum Ranch Cider & Wine

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347: High Desert Apples | Calico Cidery, CA07 Dec 202201:04:35
Everything is Right Side Up at Calico

The logo of Calico Cidery might be an upside down apple drawn to look like an apple tree, but the setting, the people, orchard and the cider is all right side up and slamming it! Located in the high desert region of San Diego to the east of the county is a lone road that brings you up to Julian California which is a bustling apple town.

Calico sits at 38oo feet while Julian is up at 4200 feet, making it a high desert region where apples and the people are living the good life in what feels like a bit of an oasis after driving through the rough scrabble land of the desert below.

Mural by the road out front of Calico Cidery

 

In this Chat

Ian Wright is the head cidermaker and brings us through a compliment of ciders while we chat about the history of the orchard.

  • Planted in 1920 - the orchard is long stem trees
  • At one time it was mainly a U-Pick orchard
  • Now owned by a family who is also making cider in Paso Robles California
  • What is dry farming apples

Ian Wright

Ciders tasted in during this Chat
  • Field Blend

    • Jona Gold & Winesap  (9.0%)

  • Devil's Punch Bowl (8.0%)
    • a blend of apples, pears, persimmon and guavas
  • Wild ferments with no sulfites added
  • Always 4 Calico Ciders on tap
  • Everything made is sold on tap
  • Destination cidery and region
  • Single Varietals made at Calico
    • Winesap
    • Northern Spy
    • Jona Gold
    • Ida Red

Hanging with the after hours Cider and Calvados Crew at Calico

When visiting Calico and Julian

  • Take a cider and walk about the orchard at Calico
  • Make sure to have enough time to also hang at the bar and take in the slow life.
  • Say hi to Eric the bartender
  • Stay at the Julian Hotel
  • Grab a soup and half sandwich for lunch at Soups and Such Cafe
  • Nead a hefty dinner? Try Romano's Restaurant
  • Bring pie to the family or friends back home from the many apple pie bakeries in town
  • Visit the other local cideries
Contact info for Calico Cidery

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463: Zydeco Meadery: Fermenting Roots from Trinidad to New England18 Jun 202501:19:00
Eric Depradine of Zydeco Meadery crafts mead with Heart, Honey, and Heritage

As securing permission, Eric was able to start his fermentation journey in high school with a science project using cane juice. That spark stayed with him through his time in Louisiana and Kansas, eventually shaping what is now Zydeco Meadery in North Attleborough, Massachusetts.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/463-Zydeco-feature-200x300-1.jpg?ssl=1 Eric Depradine What makes these meads so special?

Zydeco Meadery weaves Eric's Caribbean heritage into every bottle. Drawing from Trinidadian traditions like "Sorrel", a spiced hibiscus drink served during holidays, Eric reimagines this ancestral recipes by using honey instead of cane sugar. Each mead showcases distinctive honey varietals, from Louisiana wildflower to Massachusetts knotweed, adding layers of terroir that reflect the regions that shaped him. The result is a line of meads that are bold, balanced, and culturally rich—fermented expressions of family, migration, and memory.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/463-Zydeco-Meadery-bottles-to-go-300x200-1.jpg?ssl=1 Meads and Cysers Featured in this Chat
  • Carnival Rose
    • Carbonated hibiscus mead rooted in Caribbean sorrel tradition
    • 12% ABV, spiced, bold, festive
    • Named in honor of Calypso Rose, the first female calypsonian
  • Yankee Heritage Cyser
    • Apple, raisin, and knotweed honey
    • Inspired by colonial cider traditions and Bear Swamp Orchard & Cidery which is in Ashfield, Massachusetts but is no longer open.
  • Bayou Soleil
    • Traminette grape and citrus blend
    • A nod to Louisiana groves and Eric's wife's love of German varietals
  • Atlantic Creole
    • 100% Massachusetts knotweed honey
    • Molasses-like, earthy, and distinct
Contact Info for Zydeco Meadery Mentions in this Cider Chat https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/463-Apple-Guy-Flowers-200x300-1.jpg?ssl=1 Lucas of Apple Guy Flowers
346: Gnarly Pippins on Why Pomological Exhibits Matter30 Nov 202200:58:25
What is a pomological exhibition?

Orchardist Matt Kaminsky has hosted a Pomological Exhibition in Ashfield, Massachusetts for the past 3 years. In this talk recorded at the Cider Pop-UP as part of CiderDays 2.0 events on the weekend of November 4th-6th Matt talks about the history of Pomological Societies and why such exhibitions are so important.

How healthy are these wild apple trees?

In this talk Matt nods to the impact of global warming and climate change

  • What is causing more economic harm to apple growers
  • What species of apple trees can now be grown here and the spread of invasive insects?

At the Pomological Exhibition

  • Had 150 wild apples and pears on exhibit
  • Throughout the US and Canadian apples too.

Few repeat entries at this Public Tasting. The public was able to cast a vote in 5 different categories

  • Best quality eating
  • Best cider apple?
  • Best pear
  • Best crab
  • Visual - showiest and prettiest apple
Contact info for Matt Kaminsky

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345: Co-Fermenting Cider & Beer | Four Phantoms Brewery, MA23 Nov 202200:48:42

Four Phantoms Looks to Historical Co-Ferments

Head Brewer and owner Drew Phillips of Four Phantoms Brewery in Greenfield Massachusetts spoke on Folks Traditions and the Co-Fermentation of Wort and Apple Juice and the brewery's co-ferment called Old Gods (8.0%). There were two talks on the subject, with the first being November 3rd and the second on November 6th as part of CiderDays 2.0 compilation of events. This episode is from the November 6th presentation.

Drew is no stranger to fermenting having spent time brewing first in Oregon and then as Head Cidermaker at Artifact Cider Project in Florence, Massachusetts before opening Four Phantoms over two years ago.

His interest in old brewing traditions and recipes has him pushing the envelope with special ferments and Old Gods is a great representation of what can be done, when done well. (Read: Old Gods is delicious!!)

 

Folk Traditions Around Co-fermenting Cider and Beer

Drew notes that historically there wasn't such a delineation between beer, cider and mead as there is now. He notes how that in Wassail songs , the call for mixing cider, beer and elderberry boughs all into the same beverage. The use of Hydrometers or the science of acid titration are recent adaptations to a farmhouse fermenter's tool box.

Up until the 19th century fermenters would brew by taste and if the wort didn't taste good you would grind up more grain and mash it in, which is a classic way of brewing a farmhouse ale. - Brew by Taste.

Drew notes the difference between wort (the base of beer) and apple juice the base for cider. For yeast health fermenters are looking for YAN (Yeast Assimiable Nutrients). In apple juice there isn't alot of YAN whereas with Wort there is alot.  Thus Farmers would ferment Farmhouse ales and often blended in fresh pressed apple juice. 

No Heat Ferment

Other than the sparing that taste place with the grain used for beer, there is no boiling of the wort as is typical with brewing. Thus, a farmhouse ale can be easily blended in with apple juice to create this co-ferment concoction. 

The Making of Old Gods at Four Phantoms

  • 100 gallons of unpasteurized Mcintoush apple juice.
  • No yeast inoculation
  • Blend in with Raw ale - typical farmhouse style
    • The wort was not boiled -
    • No hops
    • Mashed into a whole mash tun of birch branches

The result is a tasting drink that blends the two products together. Make sure to try Old Gods at Four Phantoms each fall. 

Contact info for Four Phantoms Brewery

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344: Ciders that are Playing with Aging | Ragged Hill Cider, MA16 Nov 202200:52:30
Cider on the Table like Fine Wine at Ragged Hill

Steve Garwood and daughter Anne Garwood Hampp are the mastermind duo at Ragged Hill Cider based in West Brookfield, Massachusetts.

They brought a selection of bottles to taste through and we started with the Baldwin.

"Body gives you a perception of fullness and sweetness" is how Steve Garwood describes the Baldwin, which is a Pet Nat cider ringing in a 7% alcohol by volume.

Says Steve Garwood, "It is a business reason for us to make ciders that will improve in time."

Anne Garwood Hampp, Louise and Steve Garwood.

Yeast that Ragged Hill uses
  • Dd10 a champagne yeast
    • This yeast provides a vigors ferment that yields a fruit forward profile
Order of tastings in this Chat
  • Wickson
    • single variety 9%
  • Roxbury Russet - Dabinett -8.8%  this is a still cider
  • Flora - Roxbury russet, cortland, macintoush  - blend of a fruit 2018-2020
    • Expand on ice cider Juice starts at 22 024 Brits
    • Took off first fraction of juice from freeze and then 11.7%
  • Pommeau made with all heirloom fruit  18%

Contact for Ragged Hill Cider

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343: Volunteers are the Engine of the Event | CiderDays 2.0 Part 302 Nov 202200:40:44
Volunteering for CiderDays, Since 1994

On the first ever CiderDays, which was a one day event held on November 5, 1994, volunteers were stationed at local cider mills to encourage people to learn how to make cider. When the event became a 2-day experience, volunteers helped to make this annual event which is held on the first weekend of November a success. And so it continued.

Why Do People Volunteer CiderDays?

Community projects are part of the fabric of the local community where CiderDays takes place. These projects can be big like helping to build the New England Peace Pagoda in Leverett, Massachusetts in the late 1980's or more intimate like a wood stacking party to celebrate a friends birthday.

Getting something done with friends is fun.

It is a way to hang out with people with a common goal.

Volunteers are the Engine of the Event

Without volunteers for CiderDays and now CiderDays 2.0 events would come to a stand still. We need engaged people who know that cider=fun. Yes, there is a lot of preliminary work that takes place beforehand to set up an event, but on the day of it is all about the Volunteers.

How CiderDays 2.0 is Setting UP Volunteers to Succeed
  • Reach out to Volunteers early on
    • Don't wait till the month of the event to secure your volunteers
  • Provide a script of tasks
    • Keep volunteers in the loop by providing
      • provide a mission of what the event is offering
      • send a list of expected tasks so that they know the full script of what you expect
      • Call them and don't just rely on text messages
      • Feed the Volunteers
        • if you have evening events where Volunteers are serving, make sure they have had a chance to taste the same food or cider that will be served. We expect wait staff at a restaurant to give us tips on what is best on the menu or if the meal is gluten free, vegetarian options, or a general sense of the event. With this in mind, approach your event the same way and make sure your volunteers know the whole script including how delicious the food or cider that you are serving is and what the guests can expect.

Thank Volunteers after the event - for a Job well done!

You will likely want to bring them back next year!

Interested in Volunteering and getting involved for CiderDays 2.1 in 2023? Send an email to mailto:info@ciderchat.com
Schedule of Events

Download CiderDays 2.0 Latest Events Schedule 

  • CiderDays 2.0 Events all take place in downtown Greenfield Massachusetts at Hawks and Reed
  • Go to Events page to find a description of the CiderDays 2.0 events
  • Got to Tickets page to purchase CiderDays 2.0 Tickets
  • Sign up for eCiderNews to receive updates and ticket info

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342: Cider Celebrities in the House & Bottles | CiderDays 2.0 ~ Part 226 Oct 202200:53:17
Celebrities in Cider flocking to CiderDays 2.0

CiderDays and has now been dubbed as CiderDays 2.0 and the celebrities attending can both be found in the bottles and the new and familiar face of cider today at this November 4th -6th.  Finally the return of in person events and friends from afar flocking to western Massachusetts to raise a glass.

Bookmark the Schedule Page for CiderDays 2.0

Celebrities in the Bottle

Let's start with what is in the bottle first cuz there are a whole bunch of additions to the menu of tastings.

  • Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting
    • A 7th Apple Brandy has been added to this November 4th 6-8:30 pm event

4 Calvados (France) and 3 American Apple Brandies

  • The Château Du Breuil Calvados was aged in a Port cask!
    • This is quite unique and makes one wonder if the French are taking cues from American makers where anything goes with fermentation! On the French Cider Tour 2022 we tasted Calvados with Etienne Dupont out of Scotch Whisky barrels and Cherry wood barrels. The future is here!
    • The Port cask leaves an ultra smooth finish to this 6 year old Calvados from Pays d'Auge, Normandy.

Thanks to David Catania, Spirits Category Manager at Burke Distributing Corporation for helping out with this project!

Bottle Celebrities at the Cider Dinner

The Cider Dinner Menu has some very special releases

  • Heirloom Barrel Aged Ice Cider from Eden Specialty Cider in Vermont.
    • This is a never before released Ice Cider which used barrels from Laird's and Company - America's Oldest Distiller dating back to 1698. 9th Generation Laird, Lisa Laird Dunn who is attending the dinner and also presenting at CiderDays 2.0 doesn't yet know about this Ice Cider and how her family's used oak barrels were used to condition this special blend. The Ice Cider will now accompany the dessert, which is an Apple Crisp with the whipped cream infused with Laird's Straight Apple Jack. Eden is owned by the current President of the American Cider Association Eleanor Leger, who is renown both in the US and Internationally as the Ice Cider Queen. The dessert was already delicious but the side glass of this Heirloom Barrel Aged Ice Cider is going to bring it completely over the top -  bridging 2 celebrated makers in America.
  • We will also be having a Special Release of a single varietal cider from Eden made with Golden Russet apples
  • Special Release from Ragged Hill Cider in West Brookfield Mass called Flora. Flora is a blend of Roxbury Russet, Cortland, and McIntosh apples. It has a high gravity (alcohol by volume) that is much like wine at 11.7%. Ragged Hill used a  blend of a fruit from 2018-2020 using the Solera method of winemaking where you make fractional blending to produce a final product. Flora is going to captivate the diners at this premier dinner.

Celebrities in Attendance

  • CiderDays Founder Paul Correnty who wrote one of the first books on cider called the Art of Cidermaking (1995) will be attending all the CiderDays 2.0 events. Raise a glass with him at the Wheelhouse Cider Tap Take Over on Friday Night November 4th where you can taste his newest creation "Simply Dry". Chef Paul, as he is known, is now Head Cidermaker at Carlson Orchards in Hudson MA. He will be pouring samples of cider from Carlson's at The Pushkin Cider Pop UP on November 5th from 2-4:30 pm
  • Mo's Fudge Factor of Shelburne Falls will also be at Cider Pop UP dipping apples on a stick in her signature fudge.
  • Vermont Quince will have an assortment of Quince jams and be there to answer your quince questions. Yes Quince is related to Apples and used in cidermaking.

Morris Dancing from 1-2pm next to the Greenfield Common.

  • One of the groups is called Wake Robin and is an all women group of dancers.

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341: Going to CiderDays 2.0 | Tip of the Glass Part 119 Oct 202200:48:24
https://ciderchat.com/ciderdaysschedule2022/Going to CiderDays 2.0 | Part 1

This year 2022 is the reboot of America's oldest educational and festive cider event dubbed this year as CiderDays 2.0 and this episode we tip the glass to those who are helping make it happen and find out what they are doing on November 4th-6th.

https://ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Going-CiderDays-2.0-300x200-copy.jpg In this episode meet the CiderDays 2.0 Sponsors

Ryan and Casey Liquors 1998

CiderDays 2.0 Schedule page

Big #1 Tip is to BOOKMARK this page - here is the link spelled out https://ciderchat.com/ciderdaysschedule2022/

Find the most recently updated info on the schedule of events.

Big #2 Tip - get your tickets now to the 

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340: Eric Bordelet on Pairing Cider with Food12 Oct 202200:40:09
How to Pair Cider with Food

"One must taste, taste, taste to know." say maker Eric Bordelet when pairing food with cider. Yes, it is not as simple as seeing the menu, but also knowing how both the Chefs in the kitchen and the Maker in the cidery work with their ingredients at hand.

https://ciderchat.com/340bordeletpairingciderwithfood/ In this Episode

The French Cider Tour of 2022 was treated to a fine Michelin Star dinner with Eric Bordelet and it did not disappoint. Eric decided to discuss his three products before dinner was served. That evening he brought his Sidra Argulette (2010), the Poire Granite (2021) and the Corme (2021). He left it to the diners to decider which one paired best with the meal.

Hear in this episode which glass Cider Chat producer Ria Windcaller picked to drink with the meal.

The main clip in this episode is Eric speaking on the Sidra Argulette which even at 12 years of age is still tasting well balanced.

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339: On the Bus with the French Cider Tour | Part 205 Oct 202200:55:28
Why a Cider Tour Bus is better than going Solo

The obvious reason why taking a bus tour vs driving on your own to visit French cidermakers is that you can imbibe! But wait there is more! In this episode 339, the guest on the 2022 French Cider Tour to Normandy, Brittany and Domfrontais will tell you why a cider tour bus is better than going solo as we roll along the countryside on our final leg of the journey.

Our Cider Bus

Our beautiful luxury bus was driven by a very capable driver by the name of David, who was game for taking the back roads and mini detours that weren't on the original itinerary.  With David driving and watching the route and foreign roads signs, we could sit back and raise a glass of French cidre, poire, Calvados, Pommeau, Chouchen, and even a bottle of English Brandy all day long. In the way back of our bus were two tables that folks enjoyed sitting at and sharing cheese, bread, macaroons and other local nibbles as we rolled along the French Countryside.

It should be noted that due to the low alcohol by volume of most French cidres (around 4.5-5%) one could have a glass and remain clear headed. 

In this episode 339

Having fun on the cider bus

Hear from the guest on the bus as we slowly make our way back to Paris on the final day of our tour.

There were 6 commercial cidermakers from both the US and Canada, along with cider fans and home fermenters. Below is the list of people as heard on this episode

Cider to share on the bus

Want to join the French Cider Tour in 2024?

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338: Audio Snap Shots from French Cider Tour | Part 128 Sep 202200:43:24
Normandy to Brittany on the French Cider Tour

The 2022 French Cider Tour that took travelers from across North America on a trip of a life time was a trip of a life time. Not only were the apple and pear trees laden with fruit, but the hot and humid weather pattern finally broke and offered cool breezes. Cool weather is perfect for opening bottles from morning to night and this tour did exactly that.

In this Part 1

Hear audio snap shots along the way as we celebrate French Cider with the makers and drink in the sights and sounds both Normandy, Domfrontais and Brittany.

  • Ringing of the bells in Honfleur
  • Etienne Dupont of Domaine Dupont tips

  • Agathe Letellier of Manoir D'Apreval shares a bit of the history of her domaine

Agathe Letellier | Manoir d'Apreval

  • Daughter and Father (Estelle and Patrice) team at Manoir de Montreuil - French Cider Family now in their 14th generation

  • Is the wooden screw from the ancient press made of oak or Sorbus Domestica?

Old press screw said to be oak but could it be Sorbus Domestica?

  • Brian Wing shares cider on the tour bus from Greenbank Cidery

  • Singing on the bus along the way on the French Cider Tour
  • Frédéric Pacory on Perry

Want to join the French Cider Tour in 2024?

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337: Étienne Dupont on Tasting Calvados | Domaine Dupont21 Sep 202200:53:27
Calvados with Étienne Dupont | Domaine Dupont

Étienne Dupont took over the Domaine Familial Etienne Dupont in the Pays d'Auge region of Normandy France from his father Louis and grandfather Jules in 1980. Episode 098: Jérôme Dupont | Domaine Dupont is a conversation with Étienne son who sadly passed away in 2018. The recording with Jérôme provides the backdrop of the story behind the Dupont families acquiring the estate or what is called a Domaine in France. 

Eitenne Dupont and Benoit at Cave Pepins

In this episode Étienne and I are in the city of Caen and we are visiting Cave Pepin - wonderful store filled with Calvados, Cider, Poire and Pommeau. We are assisted by Benoit or Ben who works at the store and brought us through a tasting of Calvados. UPDATE: (this store is now closed, but Benoit is has now opened a new store in the city called Les Cidroloques).

Etienne begins by describing the

Étienne's Notes Three Sources of Aroma in Calvados
  • The fruit
  • The Yeast
  • The Cask in which the Calvados has been kept

If the cask is new wood you will taste the sap which presents itself as grainy.

Classical Calvados - the cask only contained cider and Calvados

Étienne asks if we suspect acetone in the Calvados as we are tasting.

During our first tasting we are delve into the taste and as Étienne says,

"We are fighting the acetone, we are too professional"

Étienne's Tips on Distillation of Cider
  • He prefers a quick fermentation of 3 days and then distillation. But alas the rules in Normandy require that distillation now must be done 3 weeks from the point of initial distillation.
  • Use clean apples. When Domaine Dupont presses the juice goes directly into concrete vats at the Pressoir and then it is pumped underground via tubing to the pot still.
  • The cider is racked off the gross lees at this point, with only the fine lees being distilled
  • His preferred temperature to ferment the cider is 22 to 23 degrees celsius (71 Fahrenheit) and no fermentation below 8 degrees Celsius (46 Fahrenheit).

Determining Age of Calvados

  • Fine is younger 2-3 years old
  • Hors d'Age is at least 6 years old
    • Étienne jokes that Hors d'Age which can range from 6 years to 20 is designed to get you lost. I agree and so best to ask the producer! Or as Étienne says that "You must rely on your palate."

Contact for Domaine Familial Etienne Dupont

Website: https://www.calvados-dupont.com/en/ciders-calvados.htm

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462: Cider in a Cathedral of Opulence | The Newt, UK04 Jun 202501:16:43
A Digital Media Empire Embraces Cider at The Newt

The Newt in Somerset is a world-class estate blending cider-making, luxury hospitality, and horticultural excellence. The estate is owned by South African owners Karen Roos and her husband Koos Bekker, who is a South African tech entrepreneur known for his innovative ventures, including transforming media group Naspers. Bekker's vision extends beyond digital media into luxury hospitality and agriculture, mirroring his approach at Babylonstoren in South Africa, The Newt's sister property.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/462-Ciders-tasted-at-The-Newt-in-Somerset-300x200-1.jpg?ssl=1 Ciders tasted at The Newt in Somerset A Cathedral to Cider at this Luxe Estate

The Newt's cider operation began in 2018, a year before the estate's gardens and hotel opened. Designed with a focus on creativity and the visitor experience, the cidery features state-of-the-art equipment, including Voran presses, hypoxic apple storage, and multiple fermentation tanks. The cider is predominantly crafted for guests visiting the estate, which receives up to 200,000 visitors a year.

Charlie Inns: The Cider Maker's Story

Charlie Inns, the cider maker, brings a deep passion for microbiology and biochemistry to the operation. His journey began with home brewing in his youth, later gaining professional experience at Lilly's Cider. At The Newt, Charlie focuses on crafting ciders using estate-grown apples from 65 varieties, many of them heirloom. The orchards, covering approximately 70 acres, are planted with traditional, full-size trees spaced widely to minimize disease spread and reduce the need for chemical treatments.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/462-Charlie-Inns-Cider-maker-at-The-Newt-in-Somerset-200x300-1.jpg?ssl=1 Charlie Inns Cider maker at The Newt in Somerset State of the Art Cider Production

The cider-making process includes a variety of yeasts, including wine strains, and a mix of stainless steel and oak barrel fermentations. Techniques such as gravity-fed racking, malolactic fermentation, and freeze concentration for ice cider production are part of the cellar's repertoire. Some ciders are back-sweetened with apple juice or ice cider concentrate, and a cider club offers members access to exclusive batches and virtual tastings.

Watch a behind the scenes from The Newt

Operations and Sales Support

Luke Benson, who joined The Newt more recently, supports Charlie with operations and sales, ensuring the cidery runs efficiently and allows the cider maker to focus on quality and creativity. Luke's background includes home cider-making and beer brewing.

https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/462-Ria-Luke-Benson-Arthur-Cole-of-The-Newt-in-Somerset-300x200-1.jpg?ssl=1 Ria, Luke Benson, Arthur Cole touring The Newt Ciders Tasted at The Newt
  • Fine Cider: A Braeburn single varietal fermented with Pinot Grigio yeast, crafted to appeal to wine enthusiasts.
  • Kingston Black: A single-varietal expression using this traditional bittersweet apple, known for its crisp acidity. The cider featured champagne yeast and was back-sweetened with ice cider and fresh juice for a balanced finish.
  • Red Love and Vilberie Blend: A complex cider combining the tart Red Love apple from Kent with the tannic Vilberie, resulting in a deeply colored, aromatic cider.
  • The Winston: A méthode champenoise-style cider made from Katy apples, aged for several years, named after Winston Churchill and bottled in pint-sized bottles.
https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/462-The-Newt-Feature-200x300-1.jpg?ssl=1 The Winston
  • Hopped Braeburn: A single-varietal Braeburn cider infused with Nelson Sauvin hops from New Zealand, offering a delicate, aromatic profile with a hint of residual sweetness from the apple.
  • Signature Blend: A flagship cider blending over 30 apple varieties from the estate, fermented in both stainless steel and oak, with a focus on capturing the essence of The Newt's orchard.
Contact Info for The Newt Mentions in this Cider Chat
  • Totally Cider Tours_UK Edition 2025
  • Ethic Ciders | California Summer Solstice BBQ Saturday, June 21 · 12 – 5pm PDT. tickets
  • @nordappelcider is sending an open letter to the German EU delegates, advocating for transparent labelling. This new comes in via 1785 Cider who was featured on
  • Moscow's Rebel Apple wins International Cider Maker of the Year at GLINTCAP Listen to Episode 216: Alex Ionov | Rebel Apple, Moscow
    • Watch this video sung by Alexander Ionov. In this song the young man is addressing a girl with St Valentines letter explaining how much he dreams about her
      • The main phrase of the song is «I need you more than a ton of cider» (or to be precise in translation «You are more important for me than a ton of cider»).
336: Cider Yeast Choices with Fermentis14 Sep 202200:58:47
Fermentis Offers 4 Cider Yeast for Makers

Anne Flesch Regional Sales Manager and Technical Sales Support Manager at Fermentis helps us sort through the magical world of yeast and fermenting cider. And she also address 3 listener questions on the topic of yeast and fermentation.

Upcoming Q&A with Fermentis on September 29th, 2022. Go to Fermentis.com to register

SafCider Yeasts by Fermentis

The AB of AB-1 stands for Apple Balance. The 1 stands for the first cider yeast


 

The AC of AC- 4 means Apple Crisp

The AS 0f AS -2 stands for Apple Sweet


The TF of TF 6  stands for Tutti Fruity


Listener questions:

  1. Using such a hybrid approach? One part wild yeast and one part cultured
  2.  Using Saccharomyces boulardii as a cider yeast?
  3. Timing of inoculation of (MLB) malolactic bacteria (MLB) in cider and the affect on taste/aroma/Other influences on malolactic fermentation MLF.

Support  Sponsors of Cider Chat so they can continue to support this podcast and help you make great cider!

  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers. 
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335: Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy | Flag Hill Winery & Distillery, NH07 Sep 202201:00:44
New Hampshire's Oldest Distillery | Flag Hill

Brian Ferguson is a Pennsylvania native who came to Flag Hill via the Cayman Island and ever since both he and his wife Maggie have continued to transform what was once a farm into a multi venue location. Driving up to the farm one will see vineyards that are helping to win gold medals, acres of corn and an inviting entrance that screams "sit a while and enjoy".

Apples play a major role at the Distillery

The hybrid pot still with column at is working non stop at the distillery. There are over 500 barrels alone in the aging warehouse for the coveted Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy.  Expect a smooth mouthfeel and light amber hues in this lightly from this 6 year old brandy that is aged in toasted barrels.

Along with the Apple Brandy, Flag Hill uses apples in the distillation of the

  • Karner Blue Gin
    • named after the state butterfly. This is a heavenly drink and will make anyone a gin lover.
  • Maple Sugar Liqueur
    • decadence in a bottle, this liqueur is a perfect gift for the holidays or you own personal stash for cooking and afternoon/evening sipping.
  • General John Stark Vodka
    • A must for cocktail fans!

Those are just the Apple Based spirits. There are more delicious spirts.

In this Chat

We speak with owner/distiller Brian Ferguson and Company Wingman David Breslin

Flag Hill Owner and Distiller Brian Ferguson and Company Wingman David Breslin

  • Historical overview of Flag Hill – farm, distillery, winery, events venue
    • Type of still – column – explanation of the process from apples to Apple Brandy
    • Apple Brandies made at Flag Hill - The Dusty Collection
    • Apples used. Varieties. Source.
    • Fermenting cider for distillation
    • Oak used, Aging conditions, length of time
    • Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy - Who is Josiah Bartlett?
    • What to expect from Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy

Flag Hill's Josiah Bartlett Apple Brandy will be at

CiderDays 2.0  Calvados and American Apple Brandy Guided Tasting

 Contact for Flag Hill Winery and Distillery

Support  Sponsors of Cider Chat so they can continue to support this podcast and help you make great cider!

  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers Sign up for the September 29th Q&A by visiting Fermentis.com
Mentions in this Chat

Click  to purchase CiderDays 2.0 Tickets

Tickets links below to CiderDays 2.0 event

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334: Laird's & Co. Apple Jack & Brandy Barrel Aging | Part 231 Aug 202201:02:08
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/history-of-apple-jack-tickets-409920702857 How the Laird Family honed the making of Apple Jack

In Part 1 of this two part series on Laird's & Company, we met with 9th generation Lisa Laird Dunn. Lisa is the COO and Global Ambassador of this family business. In that episode #333 Lisa shared the family's 324 year history beginning in 1698 to present day. In this episode, we meet both Lisa's son Gerard and her father Larrie Laird. Gerard joined his mother to discuss the current state and future of Laird's and Larrie brings us into the massive barrel room for a walk about aging casks of Laird's famous Apple Brandies and Apple Jack.

Lisa (9th generation), Gerard (10th generation), Larrie (8th generation)

In this chat
  • Laird's product line – Apple Jack to Apple Brandy
  • Let's talk oak barrels - How many and the kind? Oldest in use?
  • Laird's Virginia based distillery in North Garden – lets discuss this location and sourcing local apples
    • Listeners hold southern apple in high esteem and would love to know varieties used and orchards
  • What Laird's Apple Brandy is and what it is not
    • American's misconception of Apple Brandy - It is NOT flavored apple brandy.
  • Next steps for Laird's & Company
    • A museum, visitor center and tasting room
    • Cider barrel aged in Laird's brandy barrels.

Listen to Part 1 on the Laird's Family history in Episode 333

Larrie, Gerard, Lisa

Contact for Laird's & Company Mentions in this Chat

Click  to purchase CiderDays 2.0 Tickets

Tickets links below to CiderDays 2.0 event

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Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

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