Carrier 2.0 goes beyond the headlines to uncover the future of telecom. Hosted by Fierce Network’s Steve Saunders, the show brings you inside the minds of the executives rewriting the rules of connectivity. Each episode delivers unfiltered conversations with industry leaders as they confront today’s biggest challenges, share hard-won lessons, and offer bold predictions about what comes next. From 5G and AI to the cloud and open networks, Carrier 2.0 cuts through the hype to reveal the real signals shaping tomorrow’s connected world.
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As agentic AI moves from experimentation to deployment, the conversation is shifting beyond intelligence to something even more fundamental: governance.
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, Steve Saunders explores what happens when millions of autonomous AI agents begin interacting across networks, applications, and critical infrastructure. While much of the industry is focused on building increasingly capable AI systems, the bigger challenge may be coordinating them safely, securely, and at scale.
Drawing on insights from telecom and technology leaders, the episode examines the rise of non-human identities, machine-to-machine communication, and the operational complexity created when autonomous systems pursue competing objectives. It argues that telecom's decades of expertise in orchestration, policy, and distributed network control position the industry at the heart of the AI economy's next evolution.
Ultimately, the question is no longer whether AI agents can make decisions. It is who governs those decisions, where the enforcement layer resides, and how operational sovereignty will shape the networks of the future.
Key Talking Points:
From Intelligence to Coordination (00:00)
Why the biggest challenge in the age of agentic AI is no longer intelligence, but coordinating autonomous systems at scale.
The Rise of Non-Human Identities (00:45)
How every employee, application, and workflow could soon generate dozens of AI agents operating independently.
The Governance Challenge (01:40)
Why managing interactions between AI agents may become more important than building the agents themselves.
Competing Objectives at Machine Speed (02:30)
How autonomous systems optimising for different goals introduce entirely new forms of operational complexity.
The Need for AI Supervision (03:45)
Why agent ecosystems will require supervisory layers capable of maintaining visibility and harmony across distributed environments.
Telecom's Hidden Advantage (04:45)
How decades of experience in routing, orchestration, and policy management prepare telecom operators for the AI era.
Networks Built for Autonomous Traffic (05:45)
Why carriers are already redesigning infrastructure to accommodate unprecedented levels of AI-generated activity.
Operational Sovereignty (07:00)
How sovereignty is evolving from geography and ownership towards governance, control, and strategic decision-making.
The Enforcement Layer (08:15)
Why visibility into networks, identities, and machine interactions could become the defining capability of future infrastructure.
Who Governs the Agents? (09:30)
Why orchestration, policy, and control may become the most valuable functions in an AI-driven digital economy.
The Carrier Question:
As AI agents begin making autonomous decisions across enterprise systems, networks, and critical infrastructure, where should governance actually sit?
For this episode, the answer lies in operational control. Building intelligent systems is only the first step. The organisations that succeed will be those that can coordinate autonomous decision-making through clear policies, continuous visibility, and trusted enforcement layers. In the AI economy, governance may become just as valuable as intelligence itself.
As AI becomes embedded into critical infrastructure, the debate around sovereignty is rapidly moving from policy discussion to business necessity.
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, Steve Saunders explores one of the defining questions facing telecom operators, governments, and enterprises: who should control the infrastructure powering the AI economy?
For decades, digital transformation has been built on centralisation. Larger clouds, larger data centres, and increasingly powerful hyperscale platforms have enabled unprecedented innovation. But as AI moves beyond the cloud and into healthcare, finance, manufacturing, energy, logistics, and government systems, dependence on a small number of global infrastructure providers is becoming harder to ignore.
Through conversations with industry leaders, the episode examines the tension between innovation and control, the rise of sovereign architectures, the growing importance of trust, and why carriers may have a unique opportunity to play a larger role in the next era of digital infrastructure.
As the intelligence layer becomes the most valuable layer in the technology stack, the question is no longer whether organisations should embrace AI, it is how they can do so without sacrificing resilience, security, and strategic autonomy.
Key Talking Points:
The Sovereignty Question (00:00)
Why AI is forcing governments, enterprises, and carriers to reconsider who controls critical digital infrastructure.
The Limits of Centralisation (01:00)
How the digital economy became dependent on hyperscale platforms and why that model is being questioned.
The Three Pillars of Sovereignty (02:05)
Why data control, operational independence, and supply chain security are becoming strategic priorities.
When AI Crosses Borders (03:15)
The Carrier Identity Crisis
Season 2 · Episode 1
Monday, June 1, 2026 • Duration 10:05
Carrier 2.0 returns for Season 2 with a defining question for the telecom industry: what kind of service provider survives the next decade?
Hosted by Steve Saunders, this opening episode explores the strategic crossroads facing carriers as AI, cloud platforms, enterprise transformation, and hyperscaler influence reshape the industry. The traditional telecom model - built on connectivity, reliability, and scale - is no longer enough on its own. Enterprises now expect outcome-based services, intelligent automation, and real-time engagement, forcing operators to rethink not just what they sell, but what they are becoming.
Through perspectives from operators, analysts, and technology leaders, the episode examines the shift from utility provider to platform enabler, the operational challenges of embedding AI into live networks, and the growing pressure to define a clear role in an increasingly AI-driven economy.
From intelligent networks and enterprise transformation to fibre-led community impact and the future of monetisation, this episode sets the tone for the entire new season of Carrier 2.0.
Key Talking Points:
The Telecom Identity Crisis (00:00)
Why the traditional carrier model is under pressure as value shifts beyond pure connectivity.
AI Changes the Network Stack (00:29)
How AI, hyperscalers, and enterprise demand are redefining where telecom value is created.
The Strategic Crossroads (01:31)
Should carriers remain utilities, become platforms, specialise vertically, or evolve into something entirely new?
Real-Time Expectations in an AI Economy (02:23)
Telco Execution: Where Complexity Meets Trust
Season 1 · Episode 8
Thursday, February 26, 2026 • Duration 12:11
Episode Summary
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, host Steve Saunders argues that the real competitive advantage in the AI era isn’t hype, scale, or autonomy, it’s execution.
As hyperscalers dominate headlines, carriers face a more grounded challenge: how to modernise live networks without breaking trust. Drawing on conversations with operators and technology leaders, the episode explores why there is no “greenfield reset” in telecom, only the messy reality of legacy infrastructure, exponential endpoint growth, and software complexity layered over physical networks.
From deterministic APIs to probabilistic LLMs, from cloud-native ambitions to the reality that only a fraction of network functions are truly cloud-native, the discussion exposes the operational gap between vision and delivery. The episode makes a clear case: AI changes the network, but uptime, throughput, integration, and disciplined prioritisation still define success.
Ultimately, the end state for carriers isn’t full autonomy, it’s trust. And trust requires humans in the loop, clean data foundations, horizontal integration, and infrastructure delivered at software speed.
Key Talking Points
The Execution Gap (00:00)
Why reinventing networks with software fails when execution collapses under complexity.
The Greenfield Myth (01:44)
Why carriers don’t get to start over, and must modernise live networks with legacy systems intact.
Changing the Propeller Mid-Flight (02:21)
The operational reality of transitioning to software-defined architectures while maintaining service continuity.
From Silos to Horizontal Platforms (02:32)
Why 21st-century network ecosystems demand integration over organisational segregation.
AI as a Systems Problem
Season 1 · Episode 7
Friday, February 13, 2026 • Duration 12:12
Episode Summary
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, host Steve Saunders reframes artificial intelligence not as a product or application, but as a full-stack systems problem spanning power, cooling, water, networking, operations, security, governance, and strategy.
Drawing on interviews with operators, utilities, and technology leaders, the episode explores how AI is stress-testing telecom networks, electrical grids, and operational models — and why the real challenge lies beneath the model layer. From EPB Chattanooga’s grid modernization and community impact, to Orange’s layered AI architecture, the discussion shows why infrastructure, data, and automation must come before intelligence.
The episode argues that AI will not be won by the carriers with the biggest models, but by those that understand physical limits, design resilient systems, and turn AI infrastructure into a platform for secure, low-latency, trusted services.
Key Talking Points
The Category Error — Holism vs Hype (00:00)
Why AI isn’t software, but a systems problem that exposes infrastructure limits.
AI Isn’t Magic, It’s Load (01:05)
How hyperscaler narratives hide the reality of power, cooling, networking, and operational constraints.
Infrastructure Reality: Chattanooga (02:15)
How EPB integrates fiber, grid automation, AI optimization, and quantum research — delivering 55% outage reduction and $5.3B in community benefits.
Where AI Breaks: Deterministic vs Probabilistic Systems (03:40)
Why hallucinations are catastrophic in industrial, telecom, and critical infrastructure environments.
Without Networking, There Is No AI (04:45)
Strategies for Carrier Transformation
Season 1 · Episode 6
Friday, January 23, 2026 • Duration 10:45
Episode Summary
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, host Steve Saunders looks at how carriers are moving beyond AI hype and into execution. Drawing on new research from Fierce Network and interviews with operators and technology leaders, the episode explores what real Carrier 2.0 transformation looks like in practice—culturally, operationally, and economically.
From Brightspeed’s use of AI to improve deployment accuracy and customer experience, to Google Fiber’s focus on lowering cost-to-serve, the discussion shows how carriers are using AI to modernise fundamentals rather than chase novelty. The episode also examines why owning the customer experience end-to-end, monetising AI for customers, and aligning culture with execution will determine which carriers thrive in the decade ahead.
Key Talking Points
From AI Hype to Execution (00:42) – Why Carrier 2.0 is about disciplined transformation, not chasing headlines.
Modernising the Plumbing (01:39) – Operators prioritise data foundations, orchestration, edge compute, and backbone upgrades before AI ambitions.
AI as a Deployment Engine (02:05) – How Brightspeed uses AI to reduce uncertainty, improve accuracy, and deliver better customer outcomes.
Clean Data, Narrow Use Cases (03:28) – Why successful AI starts with focus, measurable impact, and execution predictability.
Owning the Experience End-to-End (04:00) – Why the carrier’s responsibility no longer stops at the door, but extends to in-home connectivity.
Lowering Cost to Serve (05:19) – Google Fiber’s view on using automation to create room for innovation without raising prices.
Digital Industrialisation (06:10) – Which industries are leading, which are lagging, and what it signals for telecom’s next phase.
Networks Under Siege – AI Security, Infrastructure Threats, and the Battle to Protect Carrier Networks
Season 1 · Episode 5
Friday, January 16, 2026 • Duration 16:38
Episode Summary
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, host Steve Saunders examines how AI is reshaping security for carriers and widening the threat surface. Cisco’s Tom Gillis and Martin Lund explain why nation-states are increasingly targeting network infrastructure and how security is being embedded into the network fabric itself.
Hawaiian Telcom’s Jason Thune highlights how regional carriers can out-execute hyperscalers, and Brightspeed’s Michel Combes discusses how BEAD funding is accelerating fiber build-outs to hundreds of thousands of new premises. Steve also tackles the question on everyone’s mind: is AI in a bubble, or just early?
Key Talking Points
AI Security at the Edge (02:27) – Cisco’s Tom Gillis explains how AI dissolves traditional firewalls into the network fabric, with security embedded everywhere. This shift requires AI-driven orchestration at massive scale.
Infrastructure Under Attack (04:15) – Nation-states are increasingly targeting routers, switches, and firewalls. Tom highlights Cisco’s “Live Protect,” which applies compensating controls without reboots to protect legacy infrastructure.
Local Advantage Over Hyperscalers (06:16) – Hawaiian Telcom’s Jason Thune shares how deep local knowledge lets regional carriers outpace hyperscalers on deployments. Permitting, shoreline rules, and community engagement become strategic differentiators.
The AI Bubble Debate (09:07) – Steve asks whether AI is heading for a crash or just a timing correction. His take: demand is real, valuations are inflated, and carriers should set their own AI strategy—not follow vendor hype.
BEAD Funding Unlocks Growth (12:11) – Brightspeed’s Michel Combes announces $560M in provisional BEAD awards, unlocking nearly 300k new premises across 18 states. Combined programs now support up to 600k previously unserved homes.
The AI-Driven Network – How Artificial Intelligence Is Reshaping Architecture, Open RAN and the Future of Work
Season 1 · Episode 4
Wednesday, December 10, 2025 • Duration 10:57
Episode Summary
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, host Steve Saunders explores what it really takes to build an AI driven network. In a rapid expert montage, Cisco’s Guru Shenoy, Rana El Desouky Kazamel and Masum Mir explain how AI agents will reshape traffic patterns, why the edge becomes critical, and the architectural pillars carriers need to put in place. Verizon’s Yago Tenorio offers a clear-eyed reality check on Open RAN. The episode then shifts to a “Truth to Power” segment from China, asking what AI and automation mean for human workers, and whether a hybrid human plus machine model represents the most ethical and resilient future for Industry 4.0.
Key Talking Points
Guru Shenoy, Cisco: AI Agents Hit the Network (01:30)
Guru opens the montage by explaining how the rise of intelligent AI agents fundamentally changes network behaviour. Instead of short bursts of traffic, carriers will see long-running, task-driven sessions that create more sustained and complex flows. These agents also interact with multiple inference clouds, placing new demands on latency, routing and scalability across the network.
Rana El Desouky Kazamel, Cisco: Rethinking Architecture for AI (03:40)
Rana discusses why AI requires a shift in network design. AI workloads sharply increase upstream traffic as data moves toward models, which pushes more processing and capability toward the edge. She highlights the need for platforms where networking, security and automation operate together to support next-generation AI services.
Masum Mir, Cisco: Three Pillars of the AI Ready Network (05:57)
Masum outlines Cisco’s foundational pillars for preparing networks for AI. High-performance, energy-efficient silicon must stretch from the core to the deep edge, while AI driven operations will move carriers closer to autonomous networking. He emphasises integrating security into the network fabric and notes the advantage carriers hold with their distributed data centre and power infrastructure.
Masum Mir of Cisco on AI Data Gravity, IT/OT Convergence, and the Edge Opportunity
Season 1 · Episode 3
Thursday, November 13, 2025 • Duration 15:45
Episode Summary
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, host Steve Saunders talks with Masum Mir, Senior Vice President and General Manager of Cisco’s Provider Mobility Business, about the next wave of transformation for carriers. Masum explains how AI’s “data gravity” is reshaping the network, why IT and OT convergence is accelerating, and how service providers can claim a central role in the new AI-driven economy. From breaking internal silos to bridging enterprise and carrier ecosystems, this conversation explores what it really takes to move beyond connectivity and into intelligence.
Key Talking Points
The Existential Question (01:36) – With most of humanity already connected, the next challenge for telecoms is linking the physical and digital worlds—and deciding what kind of companies they want to become.
Beyond the Five Nines (02:59) – Why reliability alone isn’t enough anymore, and how service providers can capture value in the digital economy without losing their traditional strengths.
Think Outside-In (03:08) – Masum’s advice to carriers: start small, build from your existing assets, and avoid greenfield silos.
Signal or Noise (03:35) – Quantum computing? Noise. 6G? Signal. Human-level AI? Too early. Masum calls it like he sees it.
IT/OT Convergence (05:15) – How industrial networks are merging IT, OT, and security by design and what it means for telecoms looking to play in vertical markets.
Breaking Silos at Cisco (06:38) – How Cisco is reorganizing internally to bridge enterprises and service providers, uniting cloud, connectivity, and AI operations.
AI’s Data Gravity (11:01) – As AI creates and consumes massive datasets, carriers have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to host, connect, and optimize the infrastructure that underpins the AI economy.
Yago Tenorio of Verizon on AI, Open RAN, and the Next Smartphone Moment
Season 1 · Episode 2
Wednesday, October 29, 2025 • Duration 14:37
Episode Summary
In this episode of Carrier 2.0, host Steve Saunders talks with Santiago ‘Yago’ Tenorio, CTO of Verizon, about the defining forces shaping the next generation of carriers. From how telecoms can truly monetize AI for customers to the realities of Open RAN and the coming 6G era, Yago shares a clear-eyed perspective on where innovation meets practicality—and what the industry must do to stay relevant.
Key Talking Points
The Carrier Question – Why monetising AI for customers, not internal use, will define the next era of telecom.
Open RAN Has Already Happened – Dispelling myths around Open RAN and how Verizon is already deploying it at scale.
The MEF Has Rebranded (Again) – Steve and Yago unpack the MEF’s new identity as Mplify—and what it says about the state of telecom branding.
The Role of AI – Why AI is both overhyped and underestimated, and how future systems could anticipate user intent.
Signal or Noise – Yago rates the hype
The Smartphone Moment – How AI and new interfaces like smart glasses could replace the phone entirely.
Industrial Digitalization Opportunity – Why private 5G networks, slicing, and on-site compute give carriers fresh revenue streams.
Hyperscalers and the Industry 4.0 Revolution – How carriers and hyperscalers can work together to deliver the low-latency, AI-ready infrastructure the future demands.
The Carrier Question – What defines Carrier 2.0? For Yago, it’s the carrier’s ability to translate connectivity into intelligence and intelligence into customer value.
How modern AI systems challenge traditional definitions of data sovereignty and compliance.
The Innovation Gap (04:25)
Why replacing hyperscalers entirely is unrealistic despite growing concerns around dependency.
Distributed Networks and Local Control (05:30)
How sovereignty requirements are pushing operators towards more distributed infrastructure models.
Building Sovereign AI Strategies (06:35)
Why carriers are increasingly combining hyperscale infrastructure with their own AI capabilities and tooling.
The Battle for the Intelligence Layer (08:00)
How value is shifting away from connectivity alone towards ownership of data, intelligence, and decision-making.
Trust as a Competitive Advantage (10:10)
Why telecom operators may be uniquely positioned to capitalise on growing concerns around privacy and data governance.
Strategic Optionality in the AI Era (13:45)
Why the future belongs to organisations that balance innovation, resilience, and control rather than pursuing complete independence or dependence.
The Carrier Question:
As AI infrastructure becomes increasingly intertwined with national competitiveness, security, and economic growth, what role should telecom operators play in maintaining control without sacrificing innovation?
For this episode, the answer lies in strategic balance. Sovereignty without innovation limits progress, while innovation without control creates new forms of dependency and risk. The carriers that succeed will be those that combine trusted infrastructure, clear governance, and selective use of hyperscale capabilities to create resilient, future-ready digital ecosystems.
Why modern AI experiences require ultra-low latency, real-time network responsiveness, and intelligent infrastructure.
Enterprises Want Outcomes, Not Connectivity (02:55)
How customer expectations are shifting toward automation, decision-making, and business outcomes.
Moving Up the Stack (03:21)
Why becoming a platform sounds compelling, but is far harder to execute in reality.
AI Embedded Into the Network (03:40)
How intelligent networks could transform telecom infrastructure into dynamic, adaptive systems.
The Translation Gap (04:33)
Why telecom’s challenge isn’t innovation, it’s turning AI capability into deployable, scalable business value.
From Utilities to Community Infrastructure (05:45)
How fibre networks are driving economic growth, resilience, and social impact beyond connectivity alone.
Defining Relevance in the Next Decade (07:15)
Why surviving the AI era will require clear strategic positioning, disciplined execution, and focused differentiation.
The Carrier Question:
As AI reshapes enterprise expectations and hyperscalers move further into the connectivity stack, what role should service providers play in the future digital economy?
For this episode, the answer lies in clarity of purpose. The carriers that succeed won’t try to be everything - but they also won’t stay still. Whether as platforms, infrastructure partners, or vertical specialists, the winners will be the operators that make deliberate strategic choices and execute them with confidence.
Why enterprises ultimately buy competence, reliability, and realistic delivery, not AI marketing.
AI Isn’t New, But the Interface Is (05:00)
From machine learning to LLMs: what has actually changed, and what hasn’t.
Uptime Is the Real AI Constraint (05:24)
Why stability, fibre throughput, and predictable performance matter more than hallucinations.
Data First, AI Second (06:38)
Why clean databases and narrow, high-impact use cases are the true starting point of AI transformation.
Deterministic vs Probabilistic Systems (07:43)
The clash between contract-based APIs and semantic AI agents, and why telecom must reconcile both.
Cloud Native Reality Check (09:17)
Why most networks remain far from fully cloud-native, despite years of readiness claims.
Autonomy vs Trust (09:38)
Why complete network autonomy is not the goal, and why humans must remain in the loop.
Infrastructure at Software Speed (10:17)
Why the winners will deliver network infrastructure with the speed, flexibility, and user experience of cloud software.
The Carrier Question
If there is no forklift upgrade and no greenfield reset, what does disciplined execution actually look like in a live, AI-enabled network?
For this episode, the answer lies in modernising without breaking trust, building horizontal platforms instead of silos, prioritising data clarity, using AI selectively, and delivering infrastructure at software speed while keeping humans firmly in control.
Why secure, high-performance networking is foundational to all AI scalability.
“Just Scale It” Is a Trap (05:30)
Why hyperscaler scaling logic fails in a world of finite power, water, and capital.
The Carrier Stack: Infrastructure → Data → Automation → AI (06:45)
Orange’s framework for building production-grade, carrier-grade AI systems.
Engineering for Uncertainty (08:10)
Why operators must overbuild and design for unpredictable AI-driven demand.
Data Hygiene & Narrow Use Cases (09:25)
Why real-world AI success starts with cleaning data, standardisation, and focused execution.
The Monetization Inflection (11:00)
How carriers can transform AI infrastructure into differentiated platforms.
The Carrier 2.0 AI Playbook (12:30)
Designing for physical limits, operational reality, business outcomes, and trust.
The Carrier Question
If AI is fundamentally a systems problem, how should carriers redefine their role in the AI economy?
For this episode, it’s the carrier’s ability to transform networking, security, latency, and infrastructure resilience into monetisable AI platforms, turning connectivity into the foundation of trusted AI services.
This show is brought to you by FNTV, supported by Cisco.
Unified Security Architecture for AI (13:52) – Cisco’s Martin Lund describes a converged IP/Ethernet architecture spanning data centers to edge with security integrated throughout. Agentic AI drives synchronous traffic demands that carriers must prepare for.
This show is brought to you by FNTV, supported by Cisco.
Yago Tenorio, Verizon: Open RAN Reality Check (08:04)
Yago offers a grounded view of Open RAN’s progress. He explains what the technology has genuinely achieved, where challenges remain and how Open RAN is likely to fit into an AI heavy future rather than replace existing architectures all at once.
Truth to Power: AI, Automation and the Workforce (09:49)
The episode shifts to a segment from China exploring what digital industrialisation means for workers. It highlights that the impact of AI depends as much on leadership philosophy and national regulation as it does on technology. Telecom emerges as an industry actively committed to keeping humans meaningfully involved.
A Hybrid Human and Machine Future (11:07)
The episode concludes with a more hopeful view, suggesting that the future may lie in hybrid human–machine systems where AI enhances human capabilities rather than replacing them, creating a more ethical and resilient direction for Industry 4.0.
This show is brought to you by FNTV, supported by Cisco.
From Chat to Agentics (12:35) – Masum predicts a world where intelligent agents talk to each other, placing new demands on networks and making the edge more valuable than ever.
One Bold Prediction (13:59) – The telecom winners of tomorrow will earn most of their revenue from B2B, not consumers.
The Carrier Question
What defines Carrier 2.0? For Masum, it’s the carrier’s ability to move up the value chain—bridging connectivity, compute, and intelligence to power the AI-driven world.
