Explore every episode of the podcast Bothsides Podcast

Australia just banned SMSFs from borrowing to buy residential property, and Dan says the government admitted it had done no financial modelling on what that would do to housing supply.

In episode 5 of the No BS Property Show, buyer's agents Daniel Beardall and Josh Yun get fired up about a government making decisions nobody voted for, while families feel the squeeze and a single day in August set a record for business insolvencies. Then they show why, for the people who know how to play it, this market is creating some of the best deals they've ever seen.

In this episode, they explain:

→ Why Josh says "the government are our employees", and why Dan calls it "the furthest thing from a democracy"

→ The SMSF lending ban, and why 30 to 40% of some of the country's biggest developers' pre-sales were SMSF buyers

→ Why Australia is likely heading for two years of negative growth in a row, a first in 40 years

→ The Albanese HECS skit Josh calls "so tone deaf" while families are struggling

→ How they're making more money this year in a falling market than they did in a rising one

→ The two deals this year with $770K and $800K+ of instant equity on purchase

→ The formula they use to succeed in any market, whether it's going up, down or sideways

If you're angry about where the market is heading, this is the episode that turns it into a plan.

The government keeps changing the rules. The four points Dan and Josh use to pick a property that makes money without relying on the market don't change.

Dan walks through them in this episode, and the free guide has all four with real deals scored against them: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Josh:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thejoshyun/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Tom Panos is telling his own daughters they have three to nine months to buy a home. Here's why.

Prices in the areas he's buying in have already dropped 10 to 15%, interest rates are back to GFC levels, and he says it's going to get uglier before it gets better. He's buying anyway.

Tom Panos is one of Australia's most recognised real estate coaches. He spent 21 years at News Corp, founded the Real Estate Gym, coaches some of the country's top agents, and has spent 21 years fighting cancer.

In this episode, he explains:

▪ Why he's telling first home buyers "don't waste this crisis", and the three to nine month window he sees

▪ Why prices in the areas he's buying in have already dropped 10 to 15%

▪ Why, for the first time, cheaper prices don't mean homes are more affordable

▪ How today's interest rates compare to the GFC, on far higher house prices

▪ Why first home buyers are down 21% year on year, even with the 5% deposit scheme

▪ Why "it's going to get uglier before it gets better, but it's going to get better"

▪ What he told the country's top 100 agents to do while sales volumes fall

Tom's advice is not to wait for things to get better.

If you're buying in this market, the free guide shows the four points Dan uses to pick a property that makes money without relying on the market: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Tom:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tom_panos/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

In this episode I decided to share everything I learned in September from spending time with some of the best operators in the country. The market has slowed, and with it referrals, organic leads and cash flow. So I wanted to show you how to take back control instead of waiting for things to turn.

I break down the full one-to-many sales funnel I watched Graeme run at his real estate masterclass, in front of nearly 1,000 people: ads, a free webinar, a paid masterclass, then becoming a client. I also cover why he keeps investing in clients long after they’ve paid him.

Then I get into the biggest productivity unlock I’ve found, which is learning to use AI agents like Claude Code yourself. I used one to build my entire ad funnel, a 37-email nurture sequence, two websites and a live business dashboard, with no tech background.

I finish with what the experts are saying about the property market: the SMSF lending changes, the undersupply, and where people are moving.

If your business has slowed down, this one’s for you.

Want what those 164 families got? Graeme teaches the exact method in a free webinar: https://www.bothsides.au/moneymentor

164 families just paid their mortgages to zero. Between them: $52.93 million in principal gone, $54,778,910.18 in interest the banks will never collect, and 3,903 years of repayments wiped out.

Then Graeme Holm gave away $40,000 of his own money, live on the show, to eight Bothsides listeners, and told us this is his last episode.

Graeme is the founder of Infinity Group, Australia's biggest privately owned brokerage. Across this series he's broken down how families pay off a 30-year mortgage in under 10. This time he opens up the business behind it: why he spends $6,000 on a client who paid him $5,000, why clients keep paying him thousands a year after their mortgage hits zero and he earns no trail commission, why he turns away around 200 of the 830 people who apply every month, and why some of them have his logo tattooed on them.

Then we called eight listeners who entered the competition. Their numbers are in the calls: $110,000 off a mortgage in 18 months. $40,000 in six months.

One listener three and a half years ahead of schedule. One family who paid off more in two months than they had in the previous ten years. That's $40,000 given away in this episode, and more than $200,000 across the series.

Most homes that match what you're looking for will never show up on realestate.com.

In this episode, Daniel Beardall and Josh Yun (the Off-Market King) break down exactly how a property deal gets done, from getting your finance sorted to finding off-market homes and negotiating the price down.

In this episode you'll learn:

→ The 5 steps every property deal goes through

→ The 6 ways to search for property (and why the portals are only one of them)

→ How to get access to off-market properties through agents and property managers

→ Why you should start in the "sold" section, not the "for sale" section

→ How to value a property before you make an offer

→ How to use seller motivation and settlement terms to pay less

→ The negotiation tactic that took $250,000 off a Sydney home

Most buyers fight over the same few listings everyone else can see, at the price the seller sets. The ones who pay less find the homes nobody else knows about, and it comes down to five steps...

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Josh:◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thejoshyun/

Bothsides:◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Vaughn Royer quit a $150,000-a-year job to knock on doors, and at 21 sold his house to keep the business alive. Today he's turned client outcomes into $450 million in client sales, running ad accounts that spend up to $100,000 a day.

He didn't get there by building a personal brand. Vaughn says he's scaled businesses to nine figures with no name, no brand and zero content, and that most of the marketing industry is obsessed with the wrong number - leads, when the only thing that pays the bills is sales.

He learned direct response under John Gian, the man he calls the best direct response marketer in Australia, and now runs the ads behind some of the country's biggest names in property, finance and education - built on paid acquisition systems rather than audience building.

In this episode, he explains:

▪ How he turns $1,000 of ad spend into $3,000 - and the 30/30/30 rule that makes the numbers work

▪ Why "we need more creative" is almost never the real problem, and what actually is

▪ How to cut your time from first click to closed sale from six months down to six days

▪ The four-line formula behind every ad he writes - and why the message beats the visual every time

▪ The real reason he refuses to show anyone his best performing ad

▪ What it cost him to get here - and what he'd tell his own kids about money that most parents get wrong

Vaughn builds funnels that keep working while you sleep. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Vaughn:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/vaughnroyer/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Every kit Luke built for this episode is free. Nine of them, ready to copy straight into Claude Code or Code X.

The Operating System kit alone gives you a personalised CLAUDE.md rulebook, five playbooks for planning and delegation, and a starter memory that carries across sessions. There's a website builder, connection kits for the software you already run, and six more.

Grab the lot here: https://drops.selrai.com.au/bothsidesIs

Is everything you've been told about AI in business wrong?

Most owners are paying for AI agents that do nothing, while the tool that actually works sits unopened on their laptop.

Luke Heka is the founder of Selr AI, a Gold Coast development team that's been putting AI systems inside Australian businesses since 2021.

From one-man operations to companies with hundreds of staff. He's not a content creator and he's not a consultant. He builds the systems and installs them, and in this episode he gives away the setup he normally charges for.

In this episode, he explains:

▪ Why the people selling you AI agents are running something far simpler underneath

▪ How to turn YouTube into a brain that thinks like any expert you name

▪ What Claude Code actually costs to run - and the $8,000 nobody mentions

▪ How one trade business went from three-day quotes to forty minutes

▪ The single process in your company worth automating first

▪ The one thing he refuses to let AI anywhere near

Follow this episode's guest:
Luke Heka

Connect with Luke:LinkedIn - Luke Heka

Selr AI:Website - selrai.com.auInstagram - @selr__aiLinkedIn - Selr AIFacebook - Selr AI

Get every AI shortcut Luke shared:
drops.selrai.com.au/bothsides

This episode was filmed at Selr Studio:Instagram - @selr.studio

Bothsides:Website - www.bothsides.auFollow the show - @bothsides_podcast

Follow Dan:
@daniel_beardall

Bothsides Buyers Agency:Instagram - @bothsidesbuyersagencyWebsite - bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

Listen & subscribe:YouTube - @bothsidespodcastSpotify - Listen hereApple Podcasts - Listen here

Josh Morrissey re-entered Real Estate after a decade in the trades. By 37, he’d built a property portfolio worth tens of millions, to a multimillion-dollar debt-free position.

He didn’t get there by holding and hoping. Josh says most people calling themselves “passive investors” are just being lazy, and that the equity sitting in your portfolio right now means if you can really use it.

He’s the co-founder of @hiveproperty.co in Canberra, one of the territory’s leading real estate businesses built on activity. He currently holds the three highest sale prices in the ACT for 2026!!

In this episode, he explains:

▪️ Using Dan as a live example, Josh maps out how to turn a $150,000 cash position into $1.4 million in two years.

▪️ Why he calls passive investing “lazy” and what he does instead.

▪️ How subdividing one property can pull out 100% profit with nothing but a DA approval, no build required.

▪️ Why holding a “neutral” cash-flow property could quietly be costing you more than it’s worth.

▪️ The real reason he doesn’t want the bank and the government as his business partners.

▪️ What building his wealth actually cost him and the hardest lessons business should learn from.

00:00:00 Intro

00:04:00 What the End of a 10-Year Plan Actually Looks Like

00:09:19 Why He Wants to Be the Circuit Breaker in His Family

00:11:17 Why Everything He Owns Sits in One Suburb

00:12:38 Why He Left the Trades for Real Estate

00:17:37 Why Money Isn't Real but Time Is

00:19:30 Reposition Yourself to 10x Your Income

00:20:20 How He Made a Year's Income in a Single Day

00:24:00 The Full Structure: Assets, Cash, Business and Buildings

00:26:17 Why He Refuses to Let the Bank Near His Portfolio

00:32:55 Why Cash Beats Equity Every Time

00:35:02 Five Deals at $200,000 a Pop. There's Your Million.

00:36:36 The People Who Buy and Never Actually Settle

00:38:51 Why He Calls Passive Investing Lazy

00:40:12 Ads

00:42:31 How to Manufacture Your Own Timelines

00:44:03 Why Commercial Property Is the Final Boss

00:47:42 The Top Three Sales in the ACT and Why He Builds Where He Sells

00:54:42 How to Do It From Scratch, Step by Step

00:59:41 How to Turn $150,000 Into $1.4 Million in Two Years

01:03:29 Why He Won't Hold a Neutral Cash Flow Property

01:07:42 Why He'll Never Build a High-Rise

01:10:05 Why He Grew From 30 to 45 Staff

01:19:45 Slow Is Smooth and Smooth Is Fast

01:24:58 Why Your Family Gets the Scraps

01:30:24 The Lesson He Wants His Kids to Learn

01:31:58 Why the 1 Percenters Decide Everything

01:40:32 What the Next 5 to 10 Years Look Like

01:44:16 Rapid Fire: Wealth, Regret and the Hardest Lesson

01:52:04 The One Thing to Take Away

Josh Morrissey manufactures his own upside instead of waiting for the market. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Josh:

◼️ Hive Property - https://www.instagram.com/hiveproperty.co/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Is the property market actually crashing, or is everyone about to miss the best buying window in years?

While headlines scream about falling prices and a broken market, two of Australia's top buyer's agents reveal how their clients are still building 6-figure equity gains - without waiting for prices to rise.

Daniel Beardall and Josh Yun are buyer's agents specialising in off-market property deals across Australia. Known for sourcing deals other investors never see, they've helped clients secure hundreds of thousands of dollars in instant equity through negotiation, subdivision, and smart deal structuring - even in a declining market.

In this episode, they explain:

▪ How one client secured $800,000 of instant equity on a single property purchase

▪ Why a "stigmatised" property sold $700,000 under market value (and why that's a good thing)

▪ How to turn a $2 million deal into $2.5 million with nothing but a DA approval

▪ The real reason building a granny flat from scratch could cost you more than buying one

▪ Why falling prices don't matter if you know how to structure the right deal

Marty Fox. Jack Delosa. Graeme Holm. Jack Henderson. Marcus Chiminello. Gavin Rubinstein. Sam Gordon.

Over 150 episodes with some of the best in Australian property and business, and ten lessons that changed my business and how I work.

A vision only works once it is actually yours. Grow by fixing the next problem in front of you, not by chasing size. Teaching beats selling. People buy from who they know, so build the name first. Charging more, and charging it upfront, changes who you end up working with. Where you spend your time matters more than how disciplined you are. Know your numbers or you are guessing. Get better before you try to be different. The people who build things decide quickly and move. And the detail is not part of the job, it is the job.

Ten lessons, where each one came from, and how to use them.

Take one and use it this week.

Watch the full episodes

Marty Fox, EP 136 How to Build Unstoppable Momentum  https://youtu.be/kAM4G3_HBvk

Jack Delosa, EP 132 The REAL Reason You’re Not Achieving Your Goals  https://youtu.be/aMx445T4jAY

Graeme Holm, EP 69 The ULTIMATE Guide to Business & Financial Literacy  https://youtu.be/QS8ZAnvjSbQ

Jack Henderson, EP 151 Why Australia Is Making It Harder To Get Rich  https://youtu.be/_xzjGMF0HM4

Marcus Chiminello, EP 137 Inside the Mind of a Master Real Estate Agent  https://youtu.be/kvbRKGbcyEo

Gavin Rubinstein, EP 133 How to be a SUCCESSFUL Real Estate Agent  https://youtu.be/xDj-aK30WGY

Sam Gordon, EP 125 Sammy Gordon: 134 Properties by 35  https://youtu.be/BqnKptX_CPE

Josh Morrissey, EP 115 From $4M GCI to Financial Freedom by 37  https://youtu.be/uSK_HSj9HxQ

Emil Juresic, EP 150 “The Market Has Already Dropped 10 To 30%”  https://youtu.be/rVkPEOI2C-w

Matt Pillios, EP 138 From Broke At 35 To $600M In Sales  https://youtu.be/mSbQVuojnL4

Graya, EP 147 How Two Brothers Are Quietly Dominating Australian Property  https://youtu.be/_bZ26j0fBJ0

Thanks for listening. Full show notes and links below.

Bothsides

Website -  https://www.bothsides.au

Follow the show - @bothsides_podcast 

Follow Dan

@daniel_beardall 

Bothsides Buyers Agency

Instagram - @bothsidesbuyersagency 

Website -  https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au/

Listen and Subscribe

YouTube - @bothsidespodcast  https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

Spotify -  https://open.spotify.com/show/3wNWmFad9vzMqAwHfNaNzT

Apple Podcasts -  https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/bothsides-podcast/id1585830750

Why do the most successful people seem to operate on something other than logic alone? Psychic Teal breaks down how she believes the mind can actually be rewired — through psilocybin, breath work, and stillness — to quiet the ego, strengthen intuition, and change the way you think and perceive life. She also explains what claircognizance actually is, why she believes self-worth is the strongest predictor of success she's seen across hundreds of readings, and how she pulled herself out of a live anxiety attack using nothing but her breath.

Teal is a psychic and intuitive healer specializing in claircognizance, energy healing, and plant medicine facilitation. A former corporate lawyer, she now hosts healing retreats and ceremonies internationally and is based in the Northern Rivers, Australia.

She explains:
◾ Why she believes self-mastery means learning to weave your logical mind and your intuition together
◾ How psilocybin can rewire the brain in real time to change deep-seated behavior
◾ How she stopped a live anxiety attack using breath work alone
◾ Why she believes self-worth is the strongest predictor of business success
◾ Why the ego is loud and hasty, while intuition is quiet and easy to miss

Follow this episode's guest:
Teal
tealsoulsacredbreathoflife.org

Bothsides:Website - www.bothsides.au

Follow the show - @bothsides_podcast

Follow Dan:
@daniel_beardall

Bothsides Buyers Agency:

Instagram - @bothsidesbuyersagency

Website - bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

Listen & subscribe:

YouTube - @bothsidespodcast

Spotify - Listen here

Apple Podcasts - Listen here

Matt Srama's figure is that the average Australian owner occupier spends eight to nine months looking for a house, and that his own team has that down to 49 days. His argument is that the months in between are the single most expensive thing a buyer does, and that it is almost never a lack of motivation.

Matt Srama is a former NRL player and the founder of Srama Group, a buyers agency covering the Gold Coast and Tweed Heads, built to seven figures in under three years. He bought his first investment property at 22.

What you will learn:

- Why staying out of the market costs more than buying in it, and the paralysis that keeps motivated buyers on the sidelines

- Why he pushes hardest when everyone around him has low urgency, and what high urgency does to the price you pay

- The four distances that set a Gold Coast price: barefoot walk, shoes, e-bike and car

- The one question to ask a selling agent that has nothing to do with price

- What a bridesmaid suburb is, and the ones he names around Burleigh, Southport and Mermaid Beach

Chapters

00:00 The best time to buy is when nobody else feels urgent

03:03 Reading gentrification off the commercial precincts

09:07 Barefoot, shoes, e-bike or car: four price points to the same beach

12:07 A fair price for a good property beats a good price for a fair one

15:11 The most expensive thing buyers do is stay out of the market

18:16 Price, condition and location, and where owner occupiers get stuck

22:50 Nine months of searching against 49 days

24:47 The positioning and urgency quadrant, and the buy zone

27:25 Manufacturing a deal when nobody else is bidding

31:00 A discount on a shirt excites you. A discount on a house scares you

35:21 Buying the owner occupier now, and the tax free upside

37:25 The Gold Coast sweet spot between 1.8 and 2.6 million

41:27 The question to ask an agent that has nothing to do with price

43:28 Bridesmaid suburbs, and where the ripple lands next

49:31 The due diligence people skip

53:32 There is no forever home, only the home for right now

55:35 Lazy equity, and buying in a company to keep serviceability

1:09:45 Granny flats, and value that comes from the cash flow

1:17:37 The cost of the goal you say you want

1:22:39 Off market does not mean a good deal

Matt Srama's team buys in 49 days what takes most people nine months. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

On The Biggest Loser there was a yellow line, and Steve Willis says the moment a contestant fell below it their fight was no longer in their hands, it went to a vote. He uses it as the whole argument: do the work while the decisions are still yours to make.

Steve "Commando" Willis spent more than ten years in the Australian Army, including selection into 4 RAR when it was re-tasked as a commando unit, and nine years as a trainer on The Biggest Loser. He now runs a gym in Rouse Hill with his partner Harika.

What you will learn:

- Why recruits had their socks measured with a ruler, and what that has to do with being handed a weapon

- The one degree bearing analogy he uses instead of telling people to overhaul their lives

- His order of operations for change: awareness first, then competency, then confidence

- Why he says the 3am wake up posts are nonsense, and what preparedness actually looks like

- What he thinks stopped The Biggest Loser being made, and what the show got wrong about obesity

Chapters

00:00 The yellow line, and the day your fight stops being yours

04:01 Joining at 18, and how infantry chose him instead

08:02 Malaysia, 1996, and the selection nobody saw coming

12:02 Socks measured with a ruler, and why you have to earn the rifle

16:03 Life is indifferent. The meaning is the one you bring

24:05 Twenty two years of CrossFit, and meeting his match

32:10 Awareness, then competency, then confidence

36:10 An hour and ten minutes of burpees, and the resistance you bring yourself

44:14 Training in a park in the cold, and the trouble with comfort

48:18 Counterterrorism training, and learning to work inside disruption

55:02 Why awareness is a double edged sword

1:05:02 Coaching people whose lives had already fallen apart

1:10:03 We are for the few

1:15:03 Draw a line in the sand, then forgive yourself

1:20:03 What happens when you stop eating until midday

1:25:04 Why the show would not be made today

1:30:07 The 3am wake up posts, and the preparedness nobody films

1:37:31 Dumbbells in a four wheel drive, and a gym built in lockdown

1:54:05 Be a good person, and be careful who talks you out of things

1:59:36 At 50, learning about money for the first time

Steve Willis does the work while the outcome is still in his hands. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Dan Beardall was seven when he watched his father come off life support after a work accident. He explains how that became the reference point for everything after it, why he spent nineteen years carrying emotions that arrived without a trigger, and what finally changed it.

The first in a solo series where Dan talks through his own journey rather than a guest's, with Isobel asking the questions.

What you will learn:

- Why losing a parent at seven set a worst-case reference point that made every later setback feel like life or death

- The years of only meat and potato, the asthma, and what he now thinks the body was holding

- What the H pylori treatment did to his gut, and the nine months of chronic fatigue that followed

- Why a ten day silent meditation retreat came before any of the plant medicine work

- The five things he would tell a young man who messaged him asking how to get out of it

Chapters

00:00 Why this series exists

00:39 Losing his dad at seven, and the reference point it set

03:46 A single parent, and the friends he stopped inviting over

06:43 Why a kid without a father grew up asking everyone questions

08:53 The science of achievement against the art of fulfilment

11:03 A Tony Robbins seminar, and the man who opened the next door

13:15 Every winter has a summer, and manufacturing your own

15:25 Emotions that arrived on schedule with no trigger

19:50 Asthma, two surgeries, and what he thinks the body was storing

22:00 H pylori, the treatment that wiped the gut, and nine months of it

24:12 What actually helped, and what never fully heals

26:23 Ten days of silence before anything else

30:52 Peru, and the man who channelled his dad

33:23 Reaching the summit and finding another mountain

35:56 Why he never told this story publicly

38:27 The DMs from young men that changed his mind

40:58 Five pieces of advice for the man he used to be

45:58 Cultivating the environment, and the risks you only take with backup

48:29 Cutting your losses without quitting

Dan built Bothsides on the idea that the inner work and the material work go together. Property is the material side, and it comes down to four points.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Jack Henderson breaks down the unit economics of a buyers agency out loud, and explains why most of the industry is quietly struggling: a client worth 80,000 dollars over four purchases still only pays you 20,000 today, and it takes three years to collect the rest.

Jack Henderson is the founder of Henderson, a national buyers agency with around 120 staff across the group.

What you will learn:

- Why lifetime value does not save you if the cash arrives over three years

- How rising acquisition costs have broken the volume buyers agency model, on his own numbers

- Why he rebuilt around something hard to replicate rather than competing on price

- The real stress of finding 1.4 million to settle in two weeks

- Why people he knows are leaving for Singapore and Thailand, and the tax logic behind it

Chapters

00:00 Why he thinks the country has swung too far one way

05:52 Finding 1.4 million in a fortnight for a settlement he did not see coming

11:02 The actual day: quarter to five, gym at 5:30, in the office by 8

14:49 Buying the degrees instead of going and doing them

18:21 When the cost to book a call went from 200 dollars to 1,200

23:21 What a five percent management fee can actually afford to fix

27:24 Find the service nobody delivers, then work out the price

28:22 Second dwellings, and turning a 3.5 percent yield into 5.5

32:40 Fringe benefits tax, payroll tax, and the bill nobody adds up

36:24 Why he is staying, and what Harry Dent told him about immigration

38:26 Everyone at the engagement party is moving offshore

40:36 Guaranteeing a return without pretending to guarantee growth

43:27 The red hat, and why every offer has a shelf life

48:28 Lifetime value against cash actually collected

52:09 Why wealthy people pay for speed and exclusivity

53:29 A record month, and why the budget changes barely touched the model

1:01:29 The changing world order, and patterns that repeat

1:05:09 Eight o'clock meetings and 7:30 last calls

1:08:45 The billion dollar goal, still standing

1:12:26 What is it actually for

Jack Henderson runs a buyers agency on its unit economics. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Jack Henderson:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jackhenderson_/

◼️ Henderson - https://www.instagram.com/henderson_advocacy/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

A house on the Central Coast sold for 15.85 million in 2023 and 8.35 million in April this year. Dan Beardall and Josh Yun use it to open an argument that this could be the cheapest property gets in their lifetime, and that the buyers being hurt hardest are the ones the budget was supposed to help.

The first episode of the No BS Property Show, a series inside Bothsides on property, investing and what to do before your next move.

What you will learn:

- What removing negative gearing on established stock did to borrowing capacity, and why the 5 percent deposit buyers ended up in negative equity

- Why they argue sentiment moved this market harder than the policy itself

- The 40 year growth data they walk through, including the worst annual fall on record

- Why the capital gains rules now push people towards buying an owner occupier, even at a stretch

- Why the price guide is a guide, and how to read a listing that has sat for 200 days

Chapters

00:00 The Central Coast house that went from 15.85 million to 8.35

02:31 The 5 percent deposit scheme, and the buyers now in negative equity

05:03 Why sentiment moved the market harder than the policy did

07:34 Forty years of growth data, and the worst year on record

10:07 Sydney down 0.4 percent in a month, and why the top end falls further

12:38 Seventy percent equity nationally, and who rate rises actually hurt

14:44 Selling a million dollar investment to buy a two and a half million dollar home

17:41 Catching a falling knife: bought before sold, with a deposit at risk

20:13 Why the capital gains change now favours the owner occupier

22:43 The essential worker who cannot buy where they work

25:15 Established with upside against brand new, on real numbers

27:47 Banks want a full valuation again, and what that does to your competition

29:10 Eight open homes, fewer than eight people through all of them

31:52 A 200 day listing, a divorce, and the gap to the data

34:33 The acreage guide that fell from 2.5 million to 2 million

36:48 House and granny flat, and why that yield holds up

39:54 Company structures, and why most buyers should keep it simple

41:45 The SMSF change, and who it actually stops

45:17 The price guide is a guide

47:59 Use the leverage you have, even if it takes a guarantor

Dan and Josh Yun buy on the numbers, whatever the headlines say. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Emil Juresic sold every property he owned at the peak of the market, five months before this was recorded. He now says values have already fallen 10 to 30 percent, and he has pulled the heavy brake on his own development pipeline.

Emil Juresic is a Gold Coast developer and the founder of NGU Group.

What you will learn:

- Why he sold the lot at the peak, and what he was seeing that made him move

- Where he thinks the falls have already happened, and what he expects next

- Why he would not buy anything brand new as a first home buyer, and would buy something he could add value to instead

- What happens to established stock when investors all shift to new

- What scaling actually costs: every dollar reinvested, and whether you can carry the pressure

- Why he moves capital between industries rather than staying loyal to one

Chapters

00:00 He sold every property he owned at the peak

06:26 In two minds about letting the last one go

11:50 Why he would not buy anything brand new as a first home buyer

17:32 Investors shifting to new stock, and what it does to established

23:34 Building a community, and the 500 gyms he has watched

29:36 The heavy brake on property development, right now

35:24 Being present while building something new

40:25 Living backwards from 95

47:17 One week from opening the first one, already thinking global

53:18 Using AI before you become the dinosaur

59:01 It took thirty years, and the people who want it in three

Emil Juresic only buys when the numbers work, not when the crowd does. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Emil Juresic:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/emiljuresic/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Graeme Holm counts four property corrections in Australia, and puts the largest at 5.5 percent. His argument is that trying to time your way around a dip that size, while sitting out years of double digit growth, is the expensive mistake almost nobody adds up.

Graeme Holm is the founder of Infinity Group and has been in lending for more than 25 years. Recorded after the federal budget changes.

What you will learn:

- The size he puts on all four Australian corrections, and why he says timing them costs more than it saves

- Why rents rising and deposits getting harder to save are the same problem for a first home buyer

- His argument that a home is capital gains tax free and an investment is not, and what that means for the order you buy in

- Why he says anyone telling you not to pay tax is broke, and how paying tax is what lets him borrow

- Why the shift from trusts to companies looks like every other government scheme cycle

Chapters

00:00 Time in the market, and why the growth is in years eight to ten

07:04 What the budget did to the investment market

14:02 Whether he is doubling down, and the Buffett comparison

20:50 Four corrections in forty years, and the largest was 5.5 percent

29:17 The two moments that matter: when you buy and when you sell

39:24 Why he sells assets every couple of years

46:22 Why some buyers agents get to ten and stop

52:59 What risk you are actually insuring against

1:00:39 Ten seconds on a whiteboard, and serving before selling

1:07:44 Timing the market against time in the market

1:14:54 Calling a listener about their budget

1:22:24 The consolation prizes

1:29:39 Closing

Graeme Holm holds through every correction because the asset pays regardless. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Graeme Holm:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/graeme_holm/

◼️ Infinity Group - https://www.instagram.com/infinitygroupau/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Australia's property market just went through its biggest overnight shift in years. In this episode, Grame Holm, a leading voice in Australian property and finance, breaks down what actually happened after the Federal Budget - how the banks moved on valuations almost instantly, why one client's property lost $250,000 in value overnight, and why he believes this is the exact moment to act, not retreat.

Graeme Holm is a mortgage broker and motivational speaker, with years of experience helping everyday Aussies navigate the property market through booms, corrections, and policy shocks. He regularly shares data-driven insights on where the Australian property market is heading next.

The views shared in this episode are personal opinions and general in nature - they do not constitute financial advice and should not be relied upon without speaking to a licensed professional about your own circumstances.

He explains:

■ Why the banks changed their valuations almost overnight after the Budget

■ How one client's property dropped from $850,000 to $600,000 in months

■ Why consumer sentiment is at rock bottom - and why that's historically the buying signal, not the warning sign

■ The 40 years of data showing Australia has never had two consecutive years of price correction

■ Why Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway just made a multi-billion dollar bet on residential housing

■ The difference between what's happening to established homes vs. new builds right now

■ Why timing the exact bottom of the market has cost investors more than it's ever saved them

🎁 We've now given away $175,000 to our listeners across this podcast series - and we're not done.

Subscribe to both Bothsides and Money Mentor on Spotify or YouTube, share your favourite episode from each on your socials tagging us, and send us a screenshot - 5 people will win $5,000 each once we hit $200,000 given away.

Stephen Michaels and Jonathan Valentino settle 1.1 billion dollars of loans a year with no marketing, no advertising and no cold outreach. Every broker in the business is on a salary, and the whole instruction to them is one sentence: delight the customer.

Stephen Michaels and Jonathan Valentino are the founders of Catalyst, a brokerage they have run for 14 years, submitting around 150 million dollars of loans a month across 40 lenders and taking their business from about 60 referral partners.

What you will learn:

- Why every broker in their business is salaried rather than contracted, and what that does to quality control

- How a bridging loan actually works, on real numbers, and why they say 60 percent of approved bridges are never drawn

- The 26 million dollar bridge at around 7.5 percent, and the house that took nine months to sell

- The 24 month rule they use to explain why most new brokers quit just before it starts working

- Why they would tell a new broker to learn credit policy before touching social media

Chapters

00:00 The reverse mullet: party at the front, business at the back

04:21 How they got past a billion a year in settled loans

06:40 Doing every job end to end before trying to teach it

08:06 Why every broker in the business is on a salary

11:42 Taking the admin off the salesperson so they only have to close

14:50 What actually keeps good staff: the money, or the learning

17:57 The three deals you nail, and the three you only do 8 out of 10

21:15 The confidence play, and why most approved bridges go unused

24:19 Who a bridging loan is actually for

26:42 What a bridge really costs, and the rate you pay on the gap

27:54 The 26 million dollar bridge, and the mansion that would not sell

31:08 If you started again tomorrow, learn policy first

34:50 The 24 month rule, and why most brokers quit too early

38:54 The sale that opened the network, and the ones done for free

42:00 What makes a good broker, and why resilience is the job

47:16 Do not try to take on everything in your first year

50:57 Development lending, and why the banks pulled back

53:27 Private credit, and the banks now competing to come back in

55:51 The decision tree on a site the bank said no to

58:52 Making the complex simple, and why that is the whole job

Stephen Michaels and Jonathan Valentino settle $1.1 billion a year without advertising. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Rob and Andrew Gray had 650 people on a waitlist for a project they had not started marketing. They also say one bad project can undo ten years of good ones, which is why they are careful in a way most developers are not.

Graya is a Gold Coast development and construction business run by two brothers, whose father was a quantity surveyor.

What you will learn:

- How 650 registrations before any marketing tells them what to build and how big

- Why they measure success by whether their buyers resell at a profit, not by their own margin

- The one bad project problem, and how a decade of track record can come undone

- How they split the business: construction, marketing and sales against development

- Where they tell a new developer to start, and whether renovations come first

Chapters

00:00 What they have learned about success

05:50 Why holding a site while interest ticks changes everything

11:26 Splitting the roles: construction and sales against development

17:20 The option contract, and amalgamating two properties into one site

22:25 The copycats, and what they cannot replicate

27:58 A pipeline that has passed 1.5 billion

33:16 Developer licensing, and pushing liability onto developers

38:26 Sports players, musicians and politicians as buyers

44:02 Asking for feedback without taking all of it on board

Rob and Andrew Gray had 650 buyers waiting before they'd spent a dollar on marketing. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Rob and Andrew Gray:

◼️ Rob - https://www.instagram.com/rob.graya/

◼️ Andrew - https://www.instagram.com/andrew.graya/

◼️ Graya - https://www.instagram.com/graya/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Bill Malouf spent 37 years building a name at one brand before moving it, and he says the worst thing an agent can do at a listing presentation is walk in with a book about their own company. His alternative takes 25 to 30 minutes and has nothing to do with market share.

Bill Malouf has sold Sydney prestige property for more than 30 years and is now at Highland Double Bay, alongside Sam Schuman. Recorded in a Sydney penthouse.

What you will learn:

- What he does in the first 25 minutes of a listing presentation instead of pitching

- How he handled a Saturday with nobody through, and why he rang the vendor 15 minutes later

- Why he says over quoting should cost an agent their licence, and how Fair Trading now checks

- The candle analogy he uses on his own sales team, and what it is really about

- The Point Piper sale that started at over 60 million and settled at 37

Chapters

00:00 Pick something you would still want to do in 40 years

00:33 Turning up with a book about your own company

03:34 Inside the apartment, and what makes a property unrepeatable

06:52 Knowing what you are good at, and what you are not

10:02 Partnership against franchise, and what an in-house back end changes

14:12 Is the franchise model dead

17:47 Property management as the engine, not the afterthought

20:02 Open book, cross selling, and the fastest way to kill a culture

22:29 Does the brand make the agent, or the agent make the brand

25:02 Coming out from under the radar after 37 years

28:15 Giving time to a 23 year old, and why it matters

30:05 The rot starts at the top

31:51 From 600,000 to 100 million in one office

34:52 Over quoting, and why he thinks it should cost you your licence

38:03 Pricing a property honestly when the vendor wants more

40:01 The Saturday nobody came through, and the phone call he made anyway

44:30 Who actually buys at this level, and what they are buying

45:04 Keeping the candle lit, and what COVID exposed

48:55 The vendor who said no auction, and the only team that listened

Bill Malouf wins on the vendor's numbers, not his own brochure. Property should be bought the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Lincoln Westerman's argument is that telling a burnt out person to make more calls is stacking demand on a system already at capacity, and that it always crumbles eventually. The only variable is when.

Lincoln Westerman coaches high performers on energy and nervous system regulation through his practice Mocha, working one to one with around 17 people at a time. He is a former real estate agent and a master practitioner in NLP.

What you will learn:

- Why he asks what a million dollar GCI goal will actually let you experience, and what happens when nobody can answer

- What a nervous system in survival mode does to sleep, temper and immunity

- The client whose entire reset was sunlight morning and evening and no phone after seven

- Why sacrifice originally meant to make sacred, and how that changes the question

- The phone health audit he runs before anything else, and what he asks about where it lives

Chapters

00:00 Stacking harder work on a system already at capacity

00:44 What will that goal actually let you experience

05:39 Seven schools, and what moving that much teaches you

07:02 What flow really is, and why living in it is dangerous

10:55 Too much in your head, or too much in your body

14:04 When did you last do something fun with nothing to do with work

20:14 The questions people never think to ask themselves

21:04 Following the thread: why, why, why

28:04 Rough handles and soft handles, and why he does not push

34:19 Seek to understand, not to destroy

35:05 A coach asks questions. A teacher gives instructions

39:02 How the nervous system actually works, in plain terms

45:01 The reset that was only sunlight and no phone after seven

53:01 Sacrifice means to make sacred

1:01:01 His own protocols, and the demand he is carrying right now

1:07:43 Phone health, and auditing where your phone actually lives

1:09:01 Intentionality, and not relying on how you feel

1:12:49 What the top operators are still trying to fix

1:18:01 Get the energy right and everything else gets easier

1:28:22 What you consume, and how you speak to yourself

Lincoln Westerman builds a system that doesn't rely on more effort. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Graeme Holm says the gap is going to get wider, and that most people arguing about it online will still be renting in ten years. He also explains the two interest rates on every loan document, and why the one the bank advertises is not the one you actually pay.

Graeme Holm is the founder of Infinity Group, one of Australia's largest independent finance broking businesses, and has been in lending for more than 25 years.

What you will learn:

- The difference between the advertised rate and the comparison rate, and why he argues the second one should legally be called the actual interest rate

- Why most borrowers never notice they are paying 8 to 12 thousand a year off principal while the rest goes to interest

- How to get a bank valuation before exchange, and what that does to the equity you can pull

- Why he will not take on the maintenance risk that comes with an older home

- The 24 month spending reset he tells people to run before they try to buy anything

Chapters

00:00 Why the disparity is going to get worse

04:35 One property or two, and what a 20 percent deposit actually buys

08:19 The 105 percent home loan, and who would take no deposit

12:21 Agents arriving with the suit and the car on finance

16:40 Whether the settings quietly help institutions in

20:17 Leaving Sydney and moving the money to southeast Queensland

23:47 Getting a good valuation, and when equity unlocks

27:17 Minimum repayments, and what sits behind the curtain

30:54 What a single income actually needs to borrow now

35:23 Parental guarantors and equity pledges

39:21 The comparison rate against your actual interest rate

43:07 The 200,000 sitting in a saver instead of an offset

46:55 Why he will not flaunt what he owns

51:07 What the room took away

54:38 Doing it for impact once you no longer need the money

58:17 What he sees coming out of the US

Graeme Holm knows which side of the gap he is on. Property should put you on the same side.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Graeme Holm:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/graeme_holm/

◼️ Infinity Group - https://www.instagram.com/infinitygroupau/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Every business coach says you fall to the level of your systems. Graeme Holm runs a 200 person business and says he does not run to systems at all, has no routine, and has tried three CEOs who all failed. His alternative is a general manager with skin in the game.

Graeme Holm is the founder of Infinity Group, one of Australia's largest independent finance broking businesses. This is his third appearance on the show.

What you will learn:

- Why he says hiring an incentivised general manager beats hiring a business coach, and the test he applies to any coach

- The operating expense buffer he asks every business owner about, and how few can answer

- Why he deliberately outsources accounting, legal and financial planning rather than bringing them in house

- Why three attempts at handing over the CEO role never worked in a private company

- The forecast that his industry would fall 30 to 50 percent, and what his business did instead

Chapters

00:00 Making the money does not make the problems go away

01:11 Running a 200 person business without systems

05:09 A theme park closed privately, and what the party is actually for

06:41 The couple who would not sell it back for what they paid plus a dollar

10:15 When to step back, and the risk of holding on too long

13:27 Three CEOs, and why none of them worked

16:43 What five years of a real partnership actually looks like

20:05 If the partnership fails, half of that is yours

23:16 Hire an incentivised general manager instead of a business coach

26:36 Who is smarter, you or the donkey

29:38 Why money is more taboo at a barbecue than health

33:15 The claim from the stage that started the partnership

36:41 Two jobs, sixty hour weeks, and the toasted sandwich

40:22 The Art of Thinking Clearly, and the chapter he rereads

43:42 A forecast of a 30 to 50 percent fall, and what happened instead

46:56 Partnering with people already on the ground

50:12 Fee for service instead of commission

53:17 Forty eight states, and the two he will not touch

56:30 Phase one in America, and dying wondering

1:00:31 Nine people in accounts, and software that could not keep up

Graeme Holm runs 200 people without a system, because the model carries itself. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Graeme Holm:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/graeme_holm/

◼️ Infinity Group - https://www.instagram.com/infinitygroupau/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Graeme Holm's figure: borrow 500,000 over 30 years and you pay back around 1.1 million. Stretch the term to 40 or 50 years and he puts it closer to 1.4. He calls that generational debt, and it is why he is now looking at America.

Graeme Holm is the founder of Infinity Group and has spent 25 years in Australian lending.

What you will learn:

- What he says a 40 or 50 year mortgage costs a family over its life, in dollars

- Why he moved his kids' savings into the offset, and how earning 6 percent by not paying it beats 3 percent taxed

- How white label lending products work, and why volume let him build four of his own

- The questions he asks about a region before investing: industry, healthcare, education, sport

- Why most people lack the emotional patience the investment period actually requires

Chapters

00:00 Four big banks, and who owns what underneath them

10:12 Hampers, flowers, and the client who was made redundant

18:45 The A Current Affair story, and why good news does not run

23:27 Whether the people who make money end up giving more

29:39 The offset accounts 600,000 families were never linked to

34:18 Nobody calculates interest daily, and what a statement hides

39:21 Cars owned outright, redraw, and restructuring around it

44:53 Live examples: commercial buildings, redraws and offsets

49:45 Thirty properties, or one very large tenant

54:44 Why rentvesting breaks if you cannot wait seven to ten years

59:31 Why he never closes a loan he has paid off

1:05:19 Where a 100 percent return actually comes from

1:10:05 Gladstone, mining, and the risk in a single industry town

1:15:09 Being prepared to be hated

Graeme Holm makes the debt work for the borrower. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Graeme Holm:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/graeme_holm/

◼️ Infinity Group - https://www.instagram.com/infinitygroupau/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Graeme Holm bought his first home at 21 on a 97 percent loan with no lenders mortgage insurance, because he worked at the bank. He sold it two years later for ten thousand dollars more, and it went on to be worth several times that. He calls it the most expensive lesson he ever had.

Graeme Holm is the founder of Infinity Group. He grew up in housing commission in Wollongong, raised by a single mother, and went from bank customer service representative to running three branches before leaving to start his own business.

What you will learn:

- The career path from customer service representative to bank branch manager, and what each step actually taught him about money

- Why he argues fear is simply not having enough information, and what to do about it first

- How the Division 7A loan trap works, and why he says the smartest way to take money out of a business is to pay the tax

- Why he will not buy in Sydney or Western Australia, and the supply argument behind it

- The cross securitisation mistake he says almost every upgrading family makes

Chapters

00:00 Told he would amount to nothing

03:57 Housing commission in Wollongong, and a childhood he will not soften

08:00 Soccer at nine, and the community that fed him

12:36 What he would tell his eighteen year old self

17:45 How to find people worth listening to when there are none around you

21:56 Playing full out at a seminar he did not want to attend

26:20 From customer service rep to running three branches

29:48 Fear is just not having enough information

33:26 Owning the ego, and the one bad marriage

36:59 What the fuel changes to once you are safe

40:34 The Division 7A trap, and why paying tax is the cheap option

44:21 What is actually in the portfolio

49:22 Two commercial properties, and why he is wary of the rest

52:59 Buying the building the business sits in

58:01 The rentvestors selling at a loss inside 24 months

1:01:27 Selling five a year, and the half that carries no tax

1:05:30 Cross securitisation, and the house people will not let go of

1:09:29 Teaching kids to give, and the Wishing Tree

1:14:31 Do more, give more

1:18:21 What he would ask the audience to go and do

Graeme Holm's first home did the work while he got on with life. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Follow Graeme Holm:

◼️ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/graeme_holm/

◼️ Infinity Group - https://www.instagram.com/infinitygroupau/

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

James Tostevin makes 200 prospecting calls a week and has never once let his team make them for him. His database runs to about 3,000 people, and he says the qualifying period before any of it pays is roughly five years.

James Tostevin has sold Melbourne property for about 40 years at Marshall White, a network of nine offices and around 350 people. He says he has personally called more than 4,000 auctions.

What you will learn:

- Why he thinks 1,000 contacts is the minimum viable database, and how he spaces the calls

- The five year qualifying period, and where agents typically fall away at year one and year two

- Why he says most agents practise on real clients, and the three person drill he uses instead

- The auction that passed in at 2.47 million, and the 130,000 he negotiated afterwards

- Why he tells young agents to spend their Saturday afternoons at a competitor's open home

Chapters

00:00 Calls from nine until half four, and why the blocks matter

01:26 Where a new agent should actually start on the phone

05:25 Do they think of you when they think real estate

10:32 The fear of what it will cost, and what he offers instead

13:54 A database of 1,000, and why his is three times that

18:29 The divorce at ten, and where the competitiveness came from

20:02 Six kids, and the things he did not have growing up

22:00 Why most agents practise on real clients

27:40 Go and stand in your competitor's open home

30:03 Learning quickly instead of learning slowly

31:49 What a world class week actually looks like

34:51 Is the next generation soft, or just differently trained

39:27 Compartments, and how he switches it off

42:27 Being number one, and being surpassed

47:11 What actually separates the very top

50:28 Underquoting in Melbourne, and why agents keep doing it

53:45 Put the offer in even when you think it is too high

56:58 Working the buyer, and the 130,000 after it passed in

1:00:13 The training most offices never bother to do

James Tostevin has made his own 200 calls a week for 30 years and the database pays him back. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Matt Pillios lost his house, a bar and a phone dealership in his early thirties, then started residential real estate at 35 and spent 18 months just paying back his retainer. His advice to anyone in that hole is unglamorous and specific: find someone further along, get sober, get fit.

Matt Pillios is a Melbourne bayside agent and a returning guest on the show.

What you will learn:

- What he actually did when a network outage took most of his clients and he lost the house

- The three steps he gives anyone in financial stress, in the order he says they have to happen

- Why he bought a villa in Bali in instalments and calls it a spiritual investment rather than a good one

- The evening routine that ends his day, from the 7:30 family dinner with no phones onwards

- Why he and his wife chose one income through the years the kids were small

Chapters

00:00 The first thing to do when you are in financial stress

01:18 Back on the show, and what has changed in a year

05:49 Burning the candle, and training for the energy the job needs

09:10 Seven to eight hours of sleep, whatever time the day starts

12:56 Building a team when you will not lower the work ethic bar

16:23 What keeps him up now, and what school fees really cost

18:21 The Bali villa, the instalments, and the friend who wanted out

20:11 Buying it without the cash, and the offer he made instead

23:42 Vitamin D, and working half days from Bali in the quiet season

27:20 Being a present father inside a real estate season

31:53 One income while the kids were small, and whether he would do it again

35:24 What he is trying to pass on to his son

36:42 A whiteboard, no leather chairs, and winning ugly

38:52 What he is learning now to keep up with wealthier clients

42:00 Growth mindset, and never losing the hungry stomach

45:11 Choosing your own hours, and the half day Sunday

49:10 What the next few years free up

52:58 What he wants to be looking back on at 80

Matt Pillios rebuilt from zero on process, not luck. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

In one week Marcus Chiminello sold a house for 74 million dollars, which he says beat the Melbourne record by 24 million, and another three days earlier for just over 80 million that nobody knew about until the buyer announced it himself. He also says he sat in his first twenty million dollar listing feeling like an impostor.

Marcus Chiminello sells prestige property in Melbourne and went out on his own during the global financial crisis. He says he has sold more than 130 properties above ten million dollars.

What you will learn:

- Why he never does appraisals, and what he tells young agents to do instead

- The 19.6 million dollar sale that came from a one bedroom apartment, and what won him the job

- How he vets buyers on a listing that drew more than 200 inspection requests

- Why "do better, not different" beats trying to stand out, and what he tells his son about it

- What actually changes when the seller is one of the wealthiest families in the country

Chapters

00:00 Everyone you deal with is stealing your time

01:04 What still has to change to reach the next level

04:12 When the career quietly becomes your identity

08:21 The buckets that went unfilled on the way up

11:25 Handling a problem that has nothing to do with real estate

14:56 Calluses, and the year that nearly broke him

18:30 What 130 sales above ten million teaches you about wealthy people

21:32 Why generalist agents never reach the top

24:49 Going out on his own in the GFC, and working to minimums

28:11 Half a degree of separation in Melbourne

31:31 Creating a slipstream for the people behind you

35:07 Learning a world you did not grow up in

38:10 Do better, not different

41:15 Everyone is different now, so nobody is

44:24 The 19.6 million sale, and the impostor in the lounge room

47:28 The week of the 74 million and the 80 million sales

51:11 Why he will not do an appraisal

54:17 Twelve hours on Instagram in a week

57:49 Answering his son's questions with questions

1:00:50 Peace with himself as the next level

Marcus Chiminello does his biggest deals where nobody is looking. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Marty Fox wrote his 2025 goals in 2021, while he was in bed for nearly six months with pericarditis. He reads them out: a New Zealand home, a tenth office, doubling turnover, a 50 million dollar valuation. He now has 17 offices and says every one of those goals was passed.

Marty Fox is the founder and CEO of Whitefox Real Estate, with offices across three countries, and a judge on The Block. He is 38.

What you will learn:

- How he works a five year goal backwards year by year, and why he says momentum makes you dangerous

- His claim of 100 percent retention of agents writing more than half a million in fees, and what he thinks holds them

- The monthly stock review that scores every listing at 25, 50 or 75 percent probability

- Why Dubai and not New York, and the commission structure he found when he got there

- Why he hired his brother, his best friend and his uncle into head office

Chapters

00:00 The 2025 goals, written in 2021 from a sick bed

00:47 Working the goals backwards, year by year

05:13 Why he set the biggest goals in the worst period

09:21 What happens in your head when the problem is bigger than you

15:04 Why his phone barely rings any more

19:40 Breaking the franchise model, then breaking it again globally

23:47 Choosing joint venture partners, and dating before you marry

28:11 Five separate things had to happen for one office

30:06 Scoring every listing at 25, 50 or 75 percent

32:39 Hiring family into head office, and why it works here

37:21 What Dubai does differently, and why he will not touch New York

41:29 Choosing which campaigns to turn up to himself

45:26 The 2030 goals, and the one he keeps to himself

49:56 What he says to a partner missing their numbers

54:03 The teams who insist their setup is the right one

59:03 You cannot fly with the eagles if you hang out with the crows

1:03:20 The house he kept, and the one he sold

1:07:42 The tunnel, the light, and knowing the difference

1:11:48 Advice for someone in the middle of the bad stretch

1:15:52 What the light looks like from where he is now

Marty Fox's plan kept working while he was out for six months. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Simon Cohen says the first question he asks a selling agent is never the price, it is how they arrived at it. He describes himself as a litigator rather than a negotiator, whose job is to build a case, and he says most agents cannot defend their own number.

Simon Cohen is the co-founder of Cohen Handler. He started the business during the global financial crisis after five years as a selling agent.

What you will learn:

- The question he asks before anything else, and what the answer tells him about the campaign

- Why he thinks of the job as building a case rather than haggling, and how he prepares it

- How he works out why a vendor is actually selling, and why he calls that basic rather than extra

- What he did with no money and no network in 2009, and the offer he made his first clients

- Why he says he would never represent sellers, even now

Chapters

00:00 If you are not moving forward you are moving backwards

02:35 The Michael Jordan comparison, and what he makes of it

05:40 Watching the industry he helped create fill up

08:55 What makes the best in this job, and what makes the worst

11:41 Why stock quietly sells before it is ever advertised

15:26 What competitive advantage does a buyer at auction actually have

18:30 When a client falls in love with the wrong house

21:46 Starting in the GFC with no money and no network

23:21 Call ten people and offer to do it for nothing

25:08 The laziness argument, and the excuses he hears daily

28:23 Managing time when the day is already full

31:37 Why he will not represent a seller

34:38 Information is power, and the hundred million dollar ask

35:02 How did you get to that price

37:47 Doing your job instead of doing the agent's

42:31 Wanting the people around you to win

46:11 Seven days is not a strategy

49:11 What he has learned from clients more successful than he is

Simon Cohen builds a case before he makes an offer. Property should be bought the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Welcome to The Blueprint Series! Where Dan, Kevin, and Josh sit down to share what’s really happening behind the scenes at Bothsides; the lessons, growth, and direction shaping the brand.

Each episode breaks down key insights from recent guests, major takeaways from the top 1%, and what’s next across the Bothsides ecosystem.

It’s an open, unfiltered space for reflection, strategy, and audience connection; where listeners can send in questions and join the conversation as the boys continue building the blueprint in real time.

After 4 years of interviewing Australia's top 1% in real estate, we're making our biggest move yet. Josh Morrissey (one of our most impactful guests) is officially joining as co-host, and we're revealing what's next for the podcast, our events, and a mysterious new business venture.

This isn't just an announcement episode. It's an honest conversation about how organic partnerships form, why surrounding yourself with the right people accelerates your growth, and what happens when three entrepreneurs align on a shared vision.

If you've ever wondered how to level up your circle or when to make bold business moves, this episode delivers real insights.

What you'll discover:

◼️Josh Morrissey's organic 3-year journey from guest to co-host

◼️Why the right people help you "play chess while others play checkers"

◼️Suitesides reveal (new business backed by industry heavy hitters)

◼️Plans to bring international guests and represent Australia globally

◼️Melbourne interviews with Marcus Chiminello, James Tostevin, and industry legends

◼️The new Bothsides website as a one-stop connection hub

Explore the Bothsides Ecosystem ⁠⁠⁠here⁠

You can watch us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Youtube ⁠⁠⁠⁠

Find us on ⁠⁠I⁠⁠nstagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠

Join us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tik Tok ⁠⁠⁠⁠

Hosted by ⁠Dan Beardall⁠, ⁠Kevin Buchanan⁠ and ⁠Josh Morrissey ⁠

Follow Bothsides on Spotify so you never miss an episode! Thank you for listening.

Billy Moskovich took a 100 million dollar facility back to the client's own bank with four competitors behind him, got the rate down half a percent and a nine million dollar equity release out of it. His pitch is one line: he saves people money for free.

Billy Moskovich is a commercial mortgage broker who leads the New South Wales office at Stanford Capital, a business he says has been running 15 years with offices in five cities and close to 60 staff.

What you will learn:

- How competitive tension between lenders works in practice, on a real 100 million dollar deal

- The block of 25 units bought at 24 million that valued at 44 as if complete, and the equity his client actually put in

- Why he leaves voicemails that name the deal instead of naming himself

- His argument for specialising rather than covering residential, commercial and asset finance

- The week structure he front loads so a bad Thursday cannot cost him the week

Chapters

00:00 No idea what to do with his life, in a hostel in Medellin

00:40 Perform like the best if you want to earn like the best

03:58 Structure, routine and consistency

08:06 Banking your first billionaire, and what actually changes

11:28 Keeping A players who could go out on their own

14:46 Front loading the week so Friday cannot ruin it

18:02 What to do when you miss your own targets midweek

21:08 Saving people money for free, and why that is easy to sell

24:12 Half a percent on 100 million, and a nine million equity release

27:17 Creating competitive tension between lenders

31:34 The 24 million block of units that valued at 44

34:36 Voicemails that name the deal, not you

37:50 Specialist, not generalist

40:56 The ecosystem: work, body, mind

47:36 His own first development, and what he will not hold

50:42 What the construction shake up did to the industry

53:57 Where he sees developers going wrong

58:15 Dressing how you like, and who that attracts

1:01:35 What is next, and what the number is really for

1:04:49 What actually changes when you get there

Billy Moskovich makes the bank compete for the client. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Gavin Rubinstein lost about 100 million dollars worth of listings in a single week, and describes exactly how he processes it: run the checklist, confirm there was nothing else he could have done, move on the same day.

Gavin Rubinstein is the founder of TRG, with three offices, and has sold Sydney property for around 18 years.

What you will learn:

- The post mortem checklist he runs after losing a pitch, and why it lets him move on the same day

- Why he says you escape competition through authenticity rather than by copying the top performer

- What he found when he audited his own industry's paperwork, and what it says about the standard

- How he thinks about the transition from top agent to running offices, and where most people stall

- Why he keeps calling clients when there is nothing to report

Chapters

00:06 Losing 100 million of listings, and the checklist that follows

03:46 Managing energy as the years add up

07:49 Leading by example without micromanaging

11:15 What a first year in this job is actually for

14:46 You are never going to please everybody

19:10 Why the biggest performers burn out at ten or fifteen years

24:54 A team of killers, and what he looks for in them

28:22 It is not the price point, it is the personality

31:54 Do more than is expected and make an impression

36:04 Call them even when there is nothing to report

40:07 How sloppy the industry is, and what clients notice

43:43 What happens on the weeks he loses

48:19 Being the top agent and running three offices at once

51:52 Where he would and would not expand

55:20 How to mentally prepare for this job

59:23 The gridlock in the growth path, and how to break it

1:04:13 What he sees in his competitors right now

1:07:40 Why not double what you already do

1:12:04 Coattails, entitlement, and who he actually backs

1:16:50 Embodying it rather than talking about it

Gavin Rubinstein lost 100 million in listings in a week and his business kept paying. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Jack Delosa's argument is that people do not fail because they lack ability, they fail because the work gets hard and the mind retreats into what is familiar. He says his best clients have rewired it the other way round: comfort is the warning sign, discomfort is confirmation.

Jack Delosa is the founder of The Entourage, a business education company.

What you will learn:

- Why he says the brain is built for survival rather than for success, and what that costs you

- How his top clients learned to read comfort as a warning and discomfort as a signpost

- What he calls a money making activity, and why most founders spend almost no time on it

- Why he goes after the biggest constraint in a business rather than its biggest opportunity

- How he hires A players, and why he says most people are recruiting from the wrong pool

Chapters

00:00 People do not avoid goals, they avoid hard

03:21 Frustration or inspiration, and which one moves you

07:51 Finding the mission inside the work you already do

11:22 Why some people take an extra year to understand it

16:48 Reading comfort as the warning sign

20:14 One step forward, three steps back, and why that is normal

24:21 Getting through the hard stretch

31:31 What separates the top one percent of his clients

35:54 Working through people instead of doing it yourself

39:41 Marketing and sales are the money making activities

44:22 Attack the biggest constraint, not the biggest opportunity

47:48 Thinking is the hardest work there is

56:35 Building a team that is at an all time high

1:00:14 How to actually hire an A player

1:05:38 Why everyone's org chart looks the same

1:09:50 Making organic content that does not feel like an ad

1:13:34 What comes after organic, and the funnel most people skip

1:17:37 Going pro on social, and copying the recipe

1:21:49 Business and plant medicine as vehicles for growth

1:25:34 Why AI's curve is different to the internet's

Jack Delosa builds people who keep going when the market doesn't. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Adrian Oddi spent three months waiting to find out whether he had thyroid cancer, and a friend going through the same diagnosis made it worse rather than easier. He came out of it working differently, and he is candid that his income came down with it.

Adrian Oddi is a director at Bresic Whitney and was guest number 16 on this podcast. This is his return, a hundred episodes later.

What you will learn:

- What three months of waiting on a diagnosis did to how he schedules a working day

- Why he stopped chasing listings the way he used to, and what happened to the numbers

- The seven day diary discipline he uses instead, and how strictly he keeps it

- Why he asks himself what the next jump up is actually for, before he chases it

- What he is teaching young agents about listing without leaning on a comparative market report

Chapters

00:00 Back on the show, a hundred episodes later

01:05 What actually changed since the last conversation

05:49 Three months of waiting, and the question he asked the specialist

10:08 The friend with the same diagnosis, and the moment it landed

14:51 Why he no longer starts the day early

18:55 The same billing, less income, and being at peace with it

23:11 The hours are yours. Most people never notice

27:08 Realistic against optimistic, and letting go of the chase

32:37 Being honest about the financial position behind the advice

37:55 Why do you need the next jump up

42:34 Asking for feedback, and how a business gets better

46:34 Why he is heading into coaching, and doing it differently

50:54 Using your daughter as a compass for decisions

56:07 Organising the diary seven days out, with discipline

1:00:19 Private appointments instead of open homes

1:04:19 What one young agent is doing that the rest are not

1:08:22 Teaching a young agent to list without a CMA

1:12:52 Pairing a buyer practice with real knowledge

1:17:04 Fifty million, a hundred million, and what the number is for

1:21:43 Why hiring unravels in the first fortnight

Adrian Oddi rebuilt how he works so the income doesn't depend on him. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Joshua Charles started at Colliers at 21 and says that by 24 he was earning more than the Prime Minister, because he was the one opening the office and coming in on Saturdays. He chose industrial deliberately, for one reason most people never think about.

Joshua Charles is the founder and managing director of One Commercial. He was the youngest director at Colliers at 28 and at CBRE at 29, and has worked in commercial property for around 30 years.

What you will learn:

- Why he picked industrial over office and retail, and the structural reason it was the safer bet

- How a vendor's agency gets appointed on a 100 million dollar asset, and why two agencies pitch

- What margin the big funds are actually working on, and what motivates a 400 million dollar buy

- Whether buying your own premises and leasing back to yourself beats renting, and when

- How he handles losing a pitch, and the reframe that lets him move on in seconds

Chapters

00:00 The rap sheet, and 7.2 billion across a career

01:31 Time in market, and choosing industrial on purpose

05:10 The six person team that set the standard

09:29 Taking a leap into deals bigger than any you have done

12:58 What technology has and has not changed in commercial

16:47 Getting appointed on a 100 million dollar asset

20:47 The biggest deal: pitching to sell an entire fund

26:06 One person in a room for a couple of months

29:32 Where the extra millions for a vendor actually come from

32:59 Timing, and the line he put at the bottom of every email

37:03 The margins the big funds are really working on

40:51 Why industrial became the asset everyone wanted

45:46 Buying your own premises and leasing back to yourself

50:25 How he handles losing a pitch

55:08 Someone else made that call. Your reaction is yours

59:35 Building rapport across twenty different funds

1:07:18 How a young agent gets access to the next level

1:11:46 Dress for the part you want

1:15:14 The two things that made the biggest difference

1:20:23 Stoicism, and sleeping better than he used to

Joshua Charles chose industrial because the income does the work. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Jack Greeff and his brothers sold Realbase for 180 million dollars, and he is still setting an alarm for 4:30. His argument is that the tools have changed what a small team can build, but the hard part has not moved: you still cannot outsource something you do not understand yourself.

Jack Greeff is one of three brothers behind the sale of Realbase and is now building a new software product.

What you will learn:

- Why he says never to delegate or outsource something you do not understand first

- How he audited his own business over three days, and what he found he could automate

- How to pay for A players before you can afford them, and what he did in the early days of Realhub

- The arithmetic on getting to a million dollars in annual recurring revenue, worked through live

- Why watching a video about something is not the same as having done it

Chapters

00:00 Selling Realbase, and why he did not retire

00:41 Still waking at 4:30 after the exit

04:39 Trying to get a machine to answer the way he would

08:11 Where to stop, and the low fruit list

13:30 Solving a problem for someone exactly like you

20:35 Threads, themes, and the mess of modern communication

24:08 Build now, or wait for the tools to catch up

28:15 How to actually find a good developer

32:08 Why hiring is the hard part, and how you tell

35:50 Give equity when you cannot give salary

39:27 Still hungry, with a launch coming

42:56 Never outsource what you do not understand

46:26 Watching a video is not doing the thing

49:53 The maths on a million dollars of recurring revenue

53:26 Attention first, then investment, then talent

57:05 A polished brand that still has to be authentic

1:01:20 Treat it as an experiment with a hypothesis

1:04:59 Shortening the time it takes to get good at something

1:08:50 Working with family as an unfair advantage

1:13:37 Great communicators, and the businesses that still fail

Jack Greeff builds things that keep compounding after the sale. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Hung Chuy was born in a Thai refugee camp and arrived in Australia at six months old. At 19 he was earning three to four hundred thousand a year running poker tournaments. He then took a $49,000 front desk job at a bank on purpose, because he wanted to learn lending properly.

Hung Chuy runs a Sydney broking business with 65 staff, and a large share of his client book is real estate agents.

What you will learn:

- Why he tells everyone to ask a broker or adviser whether they have personally bought what they are recommending

- What happened when he tried to source his own investment properties, and why three and a half months of work convinced him to use a buyers agent instead

- Why agents on big commissions so often end up with income and no assets, and what he changed in those conversations

- His maths on a Sydney house he puts at a 2 percent yield and a 100,000 a year holding cost, against a Perth house at 600 a week

- What a subdivision actually costs while you wait on council, including the private lender bill he puts at over 42,000 a month

Chapters

00:00 From a refugee camp to a brokerage heading for a billion

02:12 Cambodia, the Killing Fields, and how the family got out

05:26 Towed back out to sea and left there

07:35 Why his father tried the crossing a second time

08:39 Fairfield, one house, and a factory job with no English

09:44 Sewing at night, and a scarcity habit he still has

11:51 Running a 65 person business like a family

14:01 Building infrastructure while everyone else chased business

15:03 Losing his mother at nine

18:18 A new school, the wrong crowd, and where the EQ came from

22:33 Why EQ beats IQ in a people business

26:46 Poker at 19, and buying the franchise a year later

32:03 A $30,000 broking franchise and nine loans in two years

35:18 Taking a $49,000 front desk job on purpose

40:38 Only take advice from someone with skin in the game

42:47 Ten houses in twelve months, and the subdivision bill

47:44 Why he hires a buyers agent rather than doing it himself

51:17 How he ended up with a book full of real estate agents

57:38 Owner occupier, rentvest, or move the money

1:09:51 Hire on values, not on the CV

Hung Chuy learned lending from the inside before he used it. Property should be bought the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Simon Caulfield made millions and then lost a million on one decision, and could not tell his wife for a while. He also stopped setting goals entirely this year, replaced them with a budget and three non-negotiables, and says it is the most he has enjoyed the work in a decade.

Simon Caulfield is the director and lead agent at Place Kangaroo Point in Brisbane, an office with a gym, a golf simulator, a kids club and a wine cellar that he says cost more than eight million to build.

What you will learn:

- Why he replaced goal setting with a P&L and three non-negotiables, and what that did to burnout

- The two walls he hit, one at the ten year mark and one last year, and what he was actually protecting when he hid it

- The three people he says everyone needs in their corner, using a boxing analogy: a manager, a coach and a trainer

- Why he stopped chasing ten $500,000 listings at 80 hours a week and went after five at $1 million instead

- What he did when his business partner had three offers to leave, and why giving him the questions to ask is what kept him

Chapters

00:00 The office, the golf simulator and what Google taught him

02:37 Matching a wine vintage to every unit number

05:12 The chip on his shoulder, and chasing validation

07:53 Ten years to predictable success

13:09 Selfish against disciplined, and why the difference matters

14:30 Admitting it was pride, not leadership

15:49 The phone call to a listed company CEO

17:10 Entitlement, courage and a protected society

19:48 Making millions, then losing one

22:25 The year he set no goals at all

30:22 Being present, and capturing the moment

32:31 Partnership at home before partnership at work

38:21 How you get from 500,000 in fees to two million

42:27 The first sale, and 30 groups at the open home

43:41 Sold signs on ten buildings he had no listings in

49:01 The three people every operator needs in their corner

1:01:02 Player or coach, and which hat comes off first

1:04:28 Phil Mickelson, Tiger Woods and doubling down on one strength

1:09:14 Wolf Pack Fridays, and why nobody is immune to a problem

1:14:07 One word for the whole career

Simon Caulfield runs on a budget and three non-negotiables. Property should be bought the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Jonny Bell's property managers each run 250 to 300 properties. He puts the Australian average at 100 to 120. The whole gap is one offshore team member and one KPI: speak to 15 landlords a day.

Jonny Bell is 29 and the founder of Create Holdings, whose businesses include the offshoring firm Wingman and the property management business House Mark. He has over 100 staff in Australia and 1,100 offshore.

What you will learn:

- The maths he runs on offshoring: an extra 100 properties per manager at a $2,000 average fee, against a $30,000 offshore salary

- Why he will not buy a rent roll, and his argument that they depreciate about 10 percent a year

- What he does instead with the same $600,000, and the return he says it produces

- Why the only KPI his property managers have is 15 landlord conversations a day, and what those calls actually say

- Why not one of the 30 people in his high performer club came from a job ad

Chapters

00:00 85 to 90 million at 29, and why it does not feel different

01:20 Wanting to be a professional tennis player, until a 13 year old beat him

04:31 Starting at 23, and three months to the first management

05:17 Solo to 300 properties with keys in the back of the car

06:37 Three thousand managements, none of them bought

10:31 Why having nothing to lose was the advantage

11:48 The question he asks every week: what do I do less of

14:27 Hire slow, and take them to the Philippines first

15:45 Everyone said he was growing too fast

17:05 Why he will not buy a rent roll

22:21 Eighty percent of the jet fuel goes on take off

24:58 Fifteen minutes of audiobook, fifteen minutes of journal

27:38 The rooftop in Manila that changed the plan

34:16 A legislation bot, and a consistency bot

41:59 Turning up in a linen shirt and not needing the deal

46:12 Learning to let other people win

49:43 Take every meeting, because you cannot see the tree

59:28 What the offshore team actually does all day

1:04:45 How sales agents are using it, not just property managers

1:07:23 The price of regret against the price of failure

Jonny Bell's managers run 300 properties each on one system. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Sammy Gordon's highest ever salary was $91,000 a year, and he was already holding twenty odd properties at the time. He also cut half his staff at 15 people because he hated managing them, then went from 8 to 24 in twelve months and found it easier.

Sammy Gordon is the founder of Australian Property Scout and School of Property, host of the Scouting Australia podcast, and the company's stated mission is to retire 500 Australians by 2030.

What you will learn:

- Why he says you should only take advice from someone who has already done the exact thing you are trying to do, and how few of those people there actually are

- Why a buyers agent hired another buyers agent to bid on his own home, and what he says he is not good at

- The staffing sequence: hating 15, cutting back to 8, then 8 to 24 in a year with less stress

- Why he runs no advertising spend at all, and what that lets him risk that his competitors cannot

- The difference he draws between being content and being satisfied, and why he does not expect to be satisfied

Chapters

00:00 The rap sheet, and a philosophy about decisions

02:39 The rabbit farm, and leaving school at 16

05:17 The first purchase at 19, and a discount he did not have a name for

06:34 The magazine in the dentist's waiting room

07:52 A $91,000 salary and a twenty property portfolio

09:11 Whether a 22 year old can still do it

13:06 The car maths, and why 14 years came first

17:01 Retiring 500 Australians, and why the books are shut

21:00 Growing up around tall poppy syndrome

25:01 Meeting people who were genuinely happy for him

28:26 Why he hired someone else to bid at his own auction

31:37 The conveyancer, the contract and the 15 minutes before the hammer

35:34 High achiever syndrome, and content against satisfied

40:52 How he worked out he could afford it, at 11pm the night before

57:58 The biggest mistake he sees buyers make

1:05:52 Taking his eye off the ball, and what it cost

1:11:07 Fifteen staff was the worst, so he cut it to eight

1:15:03 Growing without a million a quarter in ad spend

1:21:38 Why the year that blew up was the one that taught him most

1:33:29 You are where you are because of what you did

Sammy Gordon's portfolio grew faster than his salary ever did. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Shane Smollen sold ten real estate offices in 2015 and then could not work out why it did not feel like he thought it would. He also argues the "million dollar agent" tag is self limiting, because three or four million is genuinely easier than one.

Shane Smollen was McGrath's Director of Sales in the early 2000s, then built and sold a ten office network, and is now a partner in the development business Central Element.

What you will learn:

- Why he says a million dollar agent is running an inefficient business, not a successful one

- What motorsport taught him about performance, where every single input is measured against a world class benchmark

- The reason he thinks agents stopped practising, and the briefcase of tapes he once paid about the price of a car for

- Why inconsistent income, not low income, is what stops most agents ever investing, and the budgeting fix he uses

- The two investment approaches he backs for high income agents, and the one he tells them to stay away from

Chapters

00:00 There was no blueprint

02:47 Driven by progression rather than goals

09:33 Motorsport, and coming back from the bad days

10:56 Every input measured against the best in the world

12:15 What sits in the gap, and how to turn it into a habit

17:35 The briefcase that cost about as much as a car

20:18 Finding the one biggest thing, not five

25:45 Putting a value on wasted time

28:28 Nothing in the diary before ten, or after four

29:47 High performers are made by other high performers

34:19 Coach against manager, and the difference in the question

40:28 When a principal should stop selling, and when they should not

43:09 Finding Doctor Fred Grosse in a room he walked into by accident

52:34 Making the glass bigger instead of breaking the ceiling

53:55 The failure he attaches the most learning to

1:09:53 Why agents with good money still do not invest

1:11:25 Why he tells agents to stay out of development

1:17:38 Kill the trough months, do not double the good ones

1:30:01 Peter Chauncey, one small patch, and market share

1:32:57 One piece of advice to his 28 year old self

Shane Smollen built businesses that were worth something on the day he sold. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Emily Davidson says about 75 percent of her stock list are people who bought a house through her, or bought one through a competitor and were looked after by her anyway. She does not track how many calls her team makes, and she says her business partner sometimes makes 150 in a day while she makes 20.

Emily Davidson is a director of the Woollahra office of Sydney Sotheby's, having arrived from Brisbane ten years earlier with four suitcases and no contacts.

What you will learn:

- Why she measures associates on buyers worked and offers made, not on call volume, and what she thinks call quotas do to people

- The two year apprenticeship every associate in her office serves, even the ones who arrive already listing and selling

- Why she tells new agents to find ten good buyers and forget about who has a house to sell

- What competitors were telling her vendors about her, and how she rebuilt her listing pitch around it

- The quarterly recovery plan she took from her business partner, and why she stopped setting annual targets

Chapters

00:00 Why she almost did not come on

01:18 An interior design course, and losing her father

04:00 Four suitcases, no friends, and the move to Sydney

05:19 Brisbane against Sydney, and the pace of a two week campaign

06:42 Admin until six, then two hours on the callback books

12:04 The two year apprenticeship every associate serves

14:40 Why there is no fixed 100 calls a day

16:01 Twenty good connects against 150 calls

18:43 Learning to list by sitting in other people's appointments

20:04 Why a scripted listing pitch does not work

21:25 Ten good buyers, and forget who is selling

22:45 Seventy five percent of her stock list came from buyer work

29:31 Burnout, a business coach and a 5:30 alarm

32:08 Pausing a negotiation at half past seven

34:52 What actually motivates her now

42:50 Advice for women being talked down in a listing pitch

45:30 Moving up a price point without having sold there yet

48:12 The recovery plan, and taking a break every quarter

52:59 An ideal day for a second year associate

56:12 Focus on your own race

Emily Davidson's business pays her back year after year. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Anthony Bell got into no university at all on his first attempt and had to repeat the HSC. In 2003 he bought an office with 90 desks while he had 15 staff, on 100 percent finance, and filled the empty desks by renting them to mates until the firm grew into them.

Anthony Bell founded the accounting firm Bell Partners in 1997 and it now runs seven offices. He also built the Ghost charter boat business and has advised John McGrath for about 30 years.

What you will learn:

- His rule for buying premises: work out what your rent buys in interest, and buy that much building

- Why he treats owner profit as an expense of the business, alongside wages, when he tests a plan

- The single reason he says most businesses are being sent to liquidation right now, from a liquidator he asked directly

- Why he thinks buyers advocacy is the most interesting shift in real estate, and what it does that listing does not

- The 52 weekly management meetings, and why he refuses to run a monthly one

Chapters

00:00 The moment he realised he was wired differently

02:51 The bus ride to his father's office

05:39 Wanting to change the face of accounting

07:05 Wagga Wagga, and being surrounded by people who had to pass

11:16 Show me a great company, and a CEO whose work is their recreation

14:06 Why accountants lose the room

16:57 Leaving, and refusing to take a single client

19:48 John McGrath, and permission to take a competitor

22:36 Why an accounting relationship only lasts four years

25:20 Ninety desks and fifteen staff

29:32 Treating profit as an expense

33:44 Why a rent roll at 12 percent is not worth borrowing for

36:32 Seven offices on the same model

41:06 Why he would send his daughter into buyers advocacy

45:34 Being comfortable with other people's problems

54:58 Where he thinks businesses are actually going wrong

58:55 The boat nobody thought would work at 4,000 an hour

1:07:16 Finding the gap, then stress testing it three times

1:12:49 The month he thought he could not make payroll

1:18:29 Nick the time, then give it back

Anthony Bell bought 90 desks with 15 staff and made the building pay for itself. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Will Phillips sold his own house at a loss, in Sydney, while working as a Sydney agent. He says it was the best thing that ever happened to him. He then left an 18 year career and a shareholding, bought a caravan and drove around Australia for a year with two kids.

Will Phillips spent 18 years at Bresic Whitney and was ranked number one agent under 30, then restarted from zero in Byron Bay and now runs the Sotheby's office there.

What you will learn:

- How he won his first ten listings in a market he had never worked in, and the one thing he did that nobody else there was doing

- Why he called buyers first instead of hunting for sellers, and the text he sends to 300 people about a single qualified buyer

- The spreadsheet he rebuilt from scratch at 39 to learn a new market: every property, his guess, and the actual result

- Why he says every agent doing well should get a mentor who is not in real estate

- What over-committing on a mortgage, a car and an image actually cost him, and what changed when he sold it all

Chapters

00:00 Eighteen years, a shareholding, and walking away

02:56 When your life is on repeat

05:42 Selling his own house at a loss

07:08 Questioning the ego and the expenses

08:31 The letter he put on a stranger's door in Byron

11:21 Winning the first ten listings out of ten

13:34 Whether he had actually flicked it in Sydney, or just ridden a brand

17:01 Twenty to thirty hot buyers, called weekly

18:26 The text that makes an agent look like they are on the ball

19:53 Qualification, and the three things you ask everyone

22:41 Notifications off, and a work life blend

24:09 The industry idolises obsession, and what that misses

26:59 Get a mentor who is not in real estate

31:17 What he looks for when hiring: vulnerability

34:04 The best form of prospecting is execution

41:06 Making it awkward not to share a buyer

42:29 What he wants from a buyers agent, and how referrals really work

45:20 Representing billionaires, and being blunt about shopping an offer

50:56 Noticing the Sydney animal coming back

56:31 Advice to his first day self

Will Phillips now buys on the numbers, after learning the other way. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Two years into the job, a stranger rang Clayton Orrigo's desk about a rental. Twenty minutes into the meeting that followed, the man spent $43 million on the spot. Clayton's fee was 3 percent, which he puts at about $1.2 million, and it paid for the apartment he had just bought.

Clayton Orrigo is a New York real estate broker who has sold the most expensive downtown townhouse in the city at $72.5 million and currently has a penthouse listed around $75 million.

What you will learn:

- Why he describes most brokers as spraying with a machine gun, and what he did instead with a single tight zone of buildings

- His argument that you are a therapist and an insurance policy, and that a monkey can open a door

- Why a $1 million listing is often harder work than a $50 million one

- What he says on every listing pitch, in exactly those words, and why he refuses to pretend he needs it

- What eight in the morning until one at night for a decade actually did, and what he is changing at 40

Chapters

00:00 How an Australian offshoring company got him to Australia

01:14 What separates him in the hardest market in the world

02:30 Figure out survival first, then you get time to think

04:58 Eight in the morning to one at night, for a decade

06:18 Calls at ten, phone down at ten

07:32 The chip on the shoulder, and the pearl analogy

10:04 Whether the energy is coachable, and what actually is

11:19 Having the things, and what stops driving you

15:07 Moneyball: base hits over swinging for the fences

16:23 The phone call to his desk that changed everything

19:39 A hedge fund, then tech, then finding the sport

21:18 The authentic conversation with himself

25:05 I do not need this listing, I want it

26:09 What changed when the team got bigger

27:37 Therapist and insurance policy, not broker

28:50 Reorienting after winning the race

30:06 Why the phone made meditation impossible

32:52 Whether he becomes a coach, and why he would rather do the surgery

34:01 The rocket ship, and piercing the atmosphere

36:33 The one thing still holding him back

Clayton Orrigo earns from relationships that keep producing. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Tobi Pearce says he sees a couple of hundred investment decks a year, and a large share of those businesses never even launch. He also says he expects at least half his early stage investments to lose money or break even, and that he does them mainly to learn.

Tobi Pearce co-founded and sold the fitness business Sweat, and now runs a family office investing across venture, private equity and operating businesses. This is his second appearance on the show.

What you will learn:

- The two completely different frameworks he uses for an early stage bet and for a cash generating business, and why one set of maths is useless on the other

- Why he thinks arguing over one or two percent of equity means you are dealing with the wrong person, and what he negotiates for instead

- His figure for how many strategic investments fail, and why you never hear about them

- The three things he sees going wrong in almost every business over $10 million in revenue

- Why getting excited about a deal is the signal to stop and study rather than to sign

Chapters

00:00 A second conversation, a year on

02:51 What he brings besides the cheque, by asset class

05:42 Why too much conviction on an early stage bet is arrogance

08:32 Doing venture mainly to learn

09:57 Why he does not fight over one or two percent

12:47 The strategic investment failure rate nobody talks about

14:15 Growing the core business first, every time

17:02 Where the return actually is in the short term

20:01 Deciding what success looks like before you start

22:40 Why getting extremely good is extremely boring

24:06 Intelligence, integrity and energy

25:29 Leverage, and why "could I do this myself" is the wrong question

31:01 If you are excited by every deal, stop doing deals

35:51 The founder trait that has cost him the most

41:39 Finding the edges of your own competence

46:23 Setting people up so they can actually win

49:10 Why he thinks routines are overrated

52:59 Lag, and making the decision now

56:05 The interview question he asks in reverse

1:07:20 Being the weird one, and what he would tell that version of himself

Tobi Pearce backs the deals that pay for themselves. Property should work the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

Get the free guide: https://go.bothsides.au/score

Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

◼️ Bothsides Buyers Agency - https://www.bothsidesbuyersagency.com.au

◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.

Ben Borg broke or dislocated at least 22 of the 26 bones in one foot, and was told he would never run again, would be lucky to walk, and might still lose the foot. Six months later his foot had still not touched the ground. He says that injury is the reason he found the work he now does.

Ben Borg is a ceremony and breathwork facilitator who has spent close to ten years learning from elders in Peru, Mexico, Guatemala and North America. This is a different kind of Bothsides episode, and Dan opens it by saying so.

What you will learn:

- The teacher's line he lives by: you get a tap on the shoulder, then a brick, then the Mack truck

- What actually happened to the friendships and the identity when the sport was taken away

- Why he says purpose is not a thing you find but a question about how you can be of use to the people around you

- Why breath, not plants, is the first thing he reaches for, even living in Peru with access to everything

- The morning practice he uses to start a day with intention rather than with a phone

Chapters

00:00 A different kind of episode, and why Dan wanted to record it

04:45 The suburban life that was not sustainable

07:54 Seven minutes into the trial that would have changed everything

12:45 The boulder in Hawaii that missed by millimetres

15:55 Ketamine in the emergency room, and his first psychedelic experience

17:31 Twenty two broken bones, and being told he would never run again

20:41 The Tuesday night with the bottle of vodka

23:52 The infection, the amputation warning, and going to Bali anyway

27:05 Watching every documentary he could find beforehand

30:17 The vision that made him vegan

35:00 Machu Picchu, after three failed attempts to get there

39:45 A gathering of elders in Ibiza

43:03 Bringing cacao ceremony to Botany Bay

52:35 Alcohol as a coping mechanism

58:53 The night they said we are going to breathe

1:00:33 Breathwork before anyone had heard of the Iceman

1:10:07 Heads down, disconnected, running on adrenals

1:16:30 Not everyone needs to become a yoga teacher

1:24:22 Starting the day with intention instead of a phone

1:32:24 A vision quest: four days, four nights, no food, no water

Ben Borg rebuilt himself on discipline, not hope. Property should be bought the same way.

Most properties only make money if the market does. The ones that pay for themselves from the day you settle are bought differently, and it comes down to four points.

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Bothsides:

◼️ The weekly email - https://bothsides.au

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◼️ Dan - https://www.instagram.com/daniel_beardall/

◼️ Watch on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bothsidespodcast

General information only. Not financial, tax, legal or credit advice. Bothsides is not a mortgage broker or credit provider.