In this episode of Beyond B2B, host Lee Odden reconnects with longtime colleague Rishi Dave, Partner at Bain & Company and former CMO at Dun & Bradstreet, Vonage, and MongoDB. in this conversation they cover how B2B organizations are evolving from disconnected campaigns to modern growth systems-where AI accelerates performance but human creativity, story, and trust remain the true differentiators.

Rishi shares insights from Bain's work with leading global brands, including:

• How to move beyond "micro-productivity" AI pilots to enterprise-wide transformation.
• Why original research and thought leadership are essential to train AI and fuel differentiated content.
• The concept of "buyability" and how marketers can get their brand onto a buyer's Day-One List.
• What it takes to build category fame in a world where hidden buyers, peer validation, and emotional connection drive B2B decisions.
• How marketing leaders can design always-on, integrated systems that connect marketing, sales, and customer success for predictable growth.

Rishi also reflects on the creative side of leadership and how his love of science fiction sharpens his storytelling instincts. The conversation wraps up with advice for B2B marketers navigating the next era of human and AI collaboration.

More about Rishi Dave:
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In this episode of Beyond B2B, Lee Odden talks with Brian Solis, Head of Global Innovation at ServiceNow and author of Mindshift, about how AI, innovation, and human creativity are transforming the way B2B organizations build trust, lead change, and create value.

Brian shares how the ServiceNow Innovation Office helps companies bridge the gap between iteration and innovation using technology to imagine entirely new possibilities for the future. He also explains why B2B marketing transformation starts with how we think, not what we do, and how leaders can drum up the courage to unlearn, experiment, and lead with imagination.

We also explore the evolving role of B2B thought leadership in a world where AI-generated content has become ubiquitous. Brian breaks down what makes thought leadership credible and trustworthy, emphasizing empathy, generosity, and the power of human connection.

From the concept of "AI agents" reshaping the future of work to why trust has become the ultimate differentiator in business, this episode delivers both a practical and philosophical roadmap for B2B leaders navigating disruption with purpose and authenticity.

Key Questions Answered in This Episode:

• What does the Innovation Office at ServiceNow do, and what's its mission?
• Why does Brian say transformation starts with mindset, not technology?
• How can B2B leaders use AI as a "forcing function" for innovation instead of just automation?
• What's the difference between iteration and innovation, and why does it matter?
• How will AI and intelligent agents reshape the future of work?
• How can marketers retain human creativity in an AI-powered world?
• What makes great thought leadership content trustworthy?
• Why is empathy more powerful than expertise in building credibility?
• How should companies think about AI discoverability for thought leadership content?
• What does a "human-led, AI-powered" future really look like for B2B brands?

In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing podcast, CEO of TopRank Marketing, Lee Odden, interviews Ty Heath, Director & Co-Founder, The B2B Institute at LinkedIn. They discuss Ty's unique journey from elite athlete to B2B marketing thought leader, emphasizing the importance of creativity in B2B marketing, the rise of influencer marketing, and the need for emotional engagement in storytelling. Ty shares examples of successful B2B campaigns and highlights the growing significance of credible voices in the B2B creator economy. 

In this conversation, Ty Heath and Lee Odden also explore the nuances of creating impactful content on LinkedIn, emphasizing the importance of mental availability and simplifying complex ideas. They discuss the role of AI in enhancing productivity and creativity in marketing, and the significance of intentional living and inspiration in one's career. The dialogue also touches on the need for better recognition of marketing's value within organizations and the potential for nurturing new voices in the B2B space.

Takeaways from this episode of Beyond B2B:

• The B2B Institute aims to build famous B2B brands.
• Creativity is fundamental to B2B marketing success.
• Emotional engagement is key to effective storytelling.
• Brands must be remembered to be bought.
• The B2B creator economy is projected to grow significantly.
• Influencer marketing in B2B is still maturing.
• Credibility is crucial for B2B influencers.
• Successful B2B campaigns often use humor and relatable messaging.
• Marketers should look to adjacent fields for inspiration.
• Taking time to synthesize ideas can lead to creative breakthroughs. Invest in mental availability for impactful LinkedIn content.
• Consistency in branding is more important than frequency.
• Simplifying complex ideas leads to more effective communication.
• AI can enhance productivity and creativity in marketing.
• Intentional living can drive motivation in one's career.
• Marketing plays a crucial role in risk mitigation for businesses.
• B2B creators need support and mentorship to thrive.
• Storytelling will improve in B2B marketing over time.
• Engaging content should balance expertise with entertainment.
• Building community is essential for effective content distribution.

To learn from more brilliant minds in B2B marketing, subscribe to the Beyond B2B Marketing podcast. 

From LinkedIn Videos to Integrated Marketing: Heike Young on Creativity, Connection & B2B Marketing

What happens when one of LinkedIn's most engaging B2B creators brings her storytelling skills inside some of the world's biggest tech brands? In this episode, Heike Young joins Lee Odden to share how she's helped humanize B2B marketing through authentic video, integrated strategy, and a creator's mindset.

Episode Summary:
Heike Young, former Head of Content, Social & Integrated Marketing at Microsoft, and one of LinkedIn's most recognizable B2B video voices, joins Lee Odden to discuss the intersection of creativity, content, and authenticity. She shares how integrated marketing breaks down silos, how video fuels trust and personality in B2B, and why the future belongs to marketers who lead with humanity, not jargon.

Episode Takeaways Include:

• How Heike built one of LinkedIn's most-loved B2B creator brands through video

• Why integrated marketing delivers stronger storytelling across channels

• Tips for showing up authentically on camera (even if you hate filming)

• How to empower employees as creators and community voices

• Why humor, clarity, and empathy outperform corporate polish every time

Guest: Heike Young, Former Head of Content, Social & Integrated Marketing, Microsoft
Host: Lee Odden, CEO, TopRank Marketing

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In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Cindy Anderson, Chief Marketing Officer and Global Lead for Engagement and Eminence at the IBM Institute for Business Value and co-author of The ROI of Thought Leadership.

From Singapore, Cindy shares her journey from journalism to global thought leadership, defining what separates true thought leadership from traditional content marketing:  evidence-based intelligence, independent of product promotion, that gives leaders the insight and inspiration to act. She discusses her groundbreaking research with 4,000 executives that quantified thought leadership's business impact, revealing that 87% of executives made a purchase decision in the past 90 days based on thought leadership and that it delivers a 156% ROI, 16 times higher than traditional campaigns.

Together, Lee and Cindy explore how thought leadership can serve as the 8th P of marketing - the platform that fuels brand awareness, trust, and full-funnel growth. Cindy explains the hub-and-spoke model, where a single research-backed idea becomes the foundation for multiple derivative assets, and why original research will only grow in value as AI transforms discovery.

They also dive into topics like synthetic data, answer engines, and the Global Thought Leadership Institute's efforts to standardize and "de-squishify" the discipline. For B2B marketers looking to elevate their influence, credibility, and ROI, Cindy makes a clear case for treating thought leadership not as content, but as a strategic business asset.

Episode Takeaways Include:

• The three traits that set thought leadership apart: data, expertise, and independence from commercial messaging

• Why 87% of executives make purchase decisions influenced by thought leadership

• How the "hub-and-spoke" model multiplies ROI by turning one big idea into many derivative assets

• Why thought leadership should be the platform other marketing campaigns are built upon - the "8th P" of marketing

• The growing importance of original research as a trust signal in the AI era

• How AI can extend thought leadership content without sacrificing credibility

• The role of synthetic data in niche research - and the risk of losing trust if misused

• Why every B2B organization can quantify and prove the ROI of their thought leadership initiatives

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In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden reconnects with B2B marketing visionary Jon Miller, co-founder of Marketo and Engagio, and now back in the lab building a new martech venture. From the rise and fall of MQLs to the role of AI in reshaping marketing automation, Jon delivers a clear-eyed view of what's broken in B2B marketing today and where the biggest opportunities lie ahead.

They explore how the old playbook of gated content and lead scoring is giving way to a new era of brand-driven growth, emotional relevance, and full-funnel accountability. Along the way, Jon shares insights on why most marketing automation platforms are stuck in the past, why brand is more important than ever, and how AI can unlock scale without sacrificing creativity or customer experience.

Episode Takeaways Include:

• Why the "gumball machine" model of lead gen is broken - and what to do instead  

• How today's buyers are stitching together their journeys across micro-content, community, and AI search 

• Why brand isn't soft - it's revenue: the emotional edge in a data-saturated world  

• What Jon means by "Marketing Automation Stockholm Syndrome" - and how to escape it  

• How AI-native platforms will reshape campaign execution, segmentation, and content delivery  

• The three elements B2B marketers must double down on in the age of AI: experiences, relationships, and craftsmanship 

• Why original research is a powerful differentiator in an era of infinite content  

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In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing podcast, host Lee Odden and guest Ann Handley, Chief Content Officer at MarketingProfs discuss AI "Analog Intelligence" as well as the continued impact of artificial intelligence on marketing while also exploring the importance of human vulnerability, creativity and authenticity in B2B storytelling,. 

Ann shares insights from her upcoming book, 'ASAP: As Slow As Possible,' which emphasizes the need to reclaim our humanity in a fast-paced digital world. She also shares lessons from Taylor Swift's marketing strategies and the impact of Instagram's new search features on user experience and content visibility. The importance of meaningful engagement on platforms like LinkedIn, the necessity of providing value through newsletters, and the innovative approaches that will be showcased at the B2B Forum are covered. The conversation wraps up with a fun word association game about various social media platforms.

Takeaways:

• Is it possible to discuss marketing without mentioning AI? No.
• Analog intelligence is about maintaining our own thinking.
• AI can lead to mediocrity if not used thoughtfully.
• Vulnerability in marketing can create authentic connections.
• Ann's new book ASAP focuses on reclaiming humanity in marketing.
• Taylor Swift's vulnerability is a lesson for B2B marketers.
• B2B brands can tell compelling stories to engage audiences.
• The Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District excels in storytelling.
• Posting less on social media can lead to better engagement.
• Building relationships in influencer marketing is crucial.
• Social media platforms are evolving, impacting how content is consumed.
• LinkedIn remains a powerful tool for professional engagement and storytelling.
• Quality over quantity: posting less frequently can lead to more impactful engagement.
• Email newsletters should be central to marketing strategies for building relationships.
• Engagement through comments can be as effective as posting new content.

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In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, TopRank Marketing CEO Lee Odden sits down with Steve Kearns, Global Head of Content for Marketing Solutions at LinkedIn, to explore what it takes to build brand, demand, and lasting influence in the modern world of B2B marketing.

Steve shares how LinkedIn helped bring the Creative B2B Awards to Cannes Lions, why taste and storytelling matter more than ever in an AI-driven world, and how top brands like ServiceNow are blending emotional resonance with strategic execution. From the role of creators and video in B2B to the evolution of SEO to thought leadership content, Steve delivers insights with style and substance.

Highlights from Episode 5 of Beyond B2B Marketing:

• Cannes Lions Experience and AI's Impact
• LinkedIn's Role in B2B Marketing at Cannes
• Understanding LinkedIn's Business Model
• The Intersection of Strategy, Data, and Storytelling
• The Role of Taste in B2B Marketing
• Successful Campaigns and Content Strategies
• The Evolution of B2B Branding
• Building Momentum in Marketing
• The Importance of Thought Leadership
• Navigating SEO in a Changing Landscape
• Embracing Video Content in B2B
• Finding Motivation in Leadership

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In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast, host Lee Odden speaks with Kathleen Booth, Senior Vice President of Marketing and Growth at Pavilion. They discuss all things related to building B2B community starting with Kathleen's journey to Pavilion, the unique structure of the Pavilion GTM leader community, and the specific needs of go-to-market leaders. 

The conversation explores the importance of community in everything from career development to the role of in-person events to the challenges of building successful communities. Kathleen shares  lessons learned from both business and personal use of AI in marketing and creating value on LinkedIn. The episode concludes with Kathleen's thoughts on finding inspiration in her career and the impact of Pavilion on its members.    Highlights from Episode 4 of Beyond B2B:

• Kathleen Booth was a member of Pavilion before joining as SVP.
• Pavilion serves go-to-market leaders, not just marketers.
• Community helps members succeed in high-pressure roles.
• Members seek support during critical career moments.
• Building a community requires long-term investment.
• Successful communities focus on commonality and engagement.
• In-person events strengthen community bonds.
• Pavilion grew rapidly during the pandemic.
• AI can enhance marketing efficiency but should not replace personal touch.
• Communication is key to leadership and community success.
  

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In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast, host Lee Odden speaks with Amber Naslund, Director of Enterprise Sales and Customer Success at LinkedIn. They discuss Amber's transition from marketing to sales, the current market conditions affecting enterprise tech, and the role of AI in content creation. Amber emphasizes the importance of engagement on LinkedIn, the relevance of brand marketing, and the growing significance of video content. They also explore the untapped potential of B2B creators and the need for a long-term marketing strategy that includes brand awareness. The conversation highlights the importance of human connections in business and the need to return to marketing fundamentals.

Takeaways:

• Amber Naslund transitioned from marketing to sales at LinkedIn.
• Companies are adopting a conservative approach to marketing budgets.
• AI should not replace creativity in content creation.
• Engagement on LinkedIn requires genuine interest in others.
• Brand marketing is essential for long-term success.
• Video content is growing rapidly on LinkedIn.
• B2B marketing needs to return to its fundamental principles.
• Successful brands like Workday and Snowflake are leading by example.
• B2B creators represent an untapped opportunity in marketing.
• Investing in community engagement is crucial for brands.

Get more insights from top B2B marketers by subscribing to the Beyond B2B Marketing podcast. 

On this second episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast, host Lee Odden sits down with Christiana Marouchos, VP of Marketing at StackAdapt. She shares how she scaled her team from 10 to 50 while keeping bold creativity at the center. Christiana explains how StackAdapt's AI-native platform fuses adtech and martech to extract more performance from every programmatic dollar. Their conversation explores why B2B brands should retool SEO now for Google's AI Overviews and how original, human-driven content fuels those algorithms. Christiana closes by urging leaders to pursue "impact efficiency," blending data discipline with human imagination to drive sustainable growth.

Chapters from this interview include:

00:00 Introduction to StackAdapt and Christiana Marouchos

02:49 The Importance of Creativity in B2B Marketing

06:11 Content Marketing in an AI-Driven World

09:00 Navigating SEO Changes with AI

11:57 The Role of Video and Storytelling in Marketing

15:06 Leveraging Partnerships for Co-Creation

18:00 Maximizing Marketing Efficiency in Challenging Times

21:01 The Impact of AI on AdTech

24:10 The Evolution of AI in Marketing

27:09 Finding Inspiration in B2B Marketing

30:09 Conclusion and Future Directions

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden, CEO of TopRank Marketing, is joined by Todd Lebo, CEO of Ascend2 Research, to talk about why original research has become one of the most powerful proof points in modern B2B marketing.

Todd brings decades of experience across marketing publishing, data-driven research, and executive leadership. Drawing on Ascend2's work surveying nearly 800 senior B2B marketers, the conversation explores how research-driven content strengthens thought leadership, fuels influencer collaboration, and creates differentiated visibility in an AI-driven discovery environment.

Together, Lee and Todd discuss why data-backed insight is increasingly essential for helping buyers navigate complexity, reduce risk, and build confidence across the full customer lifecycle.

The discussion also addresses common gaps and missed opportunities. While nearly all marketers recognize the value of thought leadership, many still limit research-driven content to top-of-funnel awareness.

Todd shares practical guidance on extending research into sales enablement, customer onboarding, and post-sale engagement, as well as how experiential and interactive formats significantly increase repeat engagement.

The episode closes with a forward-looking perspective on AI discovery, answer engine optimization, and why brands that invest early in credible, differentiated research gain a durable advantage.

Highlights include:

• Why original research consistently outperforms other content formats for engagement
• How benchmarking data builds trust and supports buyer decision-making
• The role of influencers in adding context, credibility, and distribution to research
• Why experiential and interactive research content drives deeper engagement
• How original research improves visibility in AI-powered search and discovery
• Practical steps for getting started with research-driven thought leadership

This episode offers practical, experience-backed insight for B2B marketers, content leaders, and executives looking to use proof, not promotion, to earn trust, stand out in AI-driven discovery, and drive impact across the entire customer journey.

As an emerging top B2B marketing podcast, Beyond B2B Marketing delivers conversations with the leaders shaping the future of B2B marketing with actionable ideas to help your B2B company break free of boring B2B and become a Best Answer Brand. 

Learn more about the B2B influence, SEO/AEO and creative content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden, CEO of TopRank Marketing, is joined by Stephanie Losee, Director and Executive Editor at Salesforce and a longtime pioneer of content marketing for B2B brands.

Stephanie's career spans journalism, brand publishing, and executive content leadership - from Fortune Magazine to Dell, Autodesk, Politico, and now Salesforce. In this conversation, she talks about how B2B content has evolved, why thought leadership remains essential, and what B2B marketers must rethink as AI reshapes discovery and engagement.

Highlights include:

• The changing role of thought leadership in a world of AI-powered search and content saturation
• Why trust and credibility are now central to full-funnel B2B performance
• How internal alignment with sales and customer success can unlock greater content impact
• The difference between content promotion and creating a true value exchange with customers
• What AI will-and won't-replace in high-quality editorial and content strategy

This conversation offers a ton of practical insight for B2B marketers, content leaders, and CMOs that are looking to build more effective, human-centered content strategies while navigating the rapid changes fueled by AI.

Guest: Stephanie Losee, Director & Executive Editor, Salesforce
Host: Lee Odden, CEO, TopRank Marketing
Podcast: Beyond B2B Marketing

Subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with the people shaping the future of B2B marketing and practical ideas to help your brand stand out, earn trust, and drive impact beyond the funnel. 

Learn more about the B2B influence, SEO/AEO and creative content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.

As B2B buying cycles become increasingly complex and AI-driven, how can marketing leaders maintain credibility and stand out in a sea of "AI slop"?

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Kelsey Voss, Principal Analyst at eMarketer, to discuss the evolving landscape of B2B marketing as we make our way through 2026. Kelsey brings a unique 360-degree perspective from her early days in New York theater and B2B publishing to leading marketing for startups and large enterprises.

Together, they explore why visibility alone is no longer enough and why the most successful B2B CMOs are prioritizing their focus on data governance, influencer partnerships, and human-centric creativity.

Key Takeaways from this Episode:

• The Compressed Window of Influence: Learn how AI tools like ChatGPT are not necessarily accelerating the buying cycle, but are compressing the window brands have to influence a buyer's shortlist.
• Beating "AI Fatigue": Discover why buyers aren't rejecting AI itself, but rather "low-value output." [cite_start]Kelsey explains how a distinct point of view and credible authorship are the keys to maintaining trust.
• The Maturity of B2B Influence: Influencer marketing has moved from a "nice-to-have" awareness tactic to a core pillar of performance marketing, with 81% of B2B marketers now holding dedicated influencer budgets.
• Data Governance as a Deal-Breaker: Data quality is no longer just a back-end reporting issue; in an AI world, bad data leads to "visibly wrong" customer experiences that instantly erode trust.
• The Human Checkpoint: Why human judgment, creativity, and "failing with style" remain non-negotiable for brands that want to remain authentic in an automated world.

About Our Guest: Kelsey Voss is a Principal Analyst at eMarketer, where she leads B2B marketing analysis and the "Leading with Confidence" CMO series. With a background spanning senior leadership roles at multiple B2B companies, Kelsey focuses on helping marketers navigate hype to find practical, executable strategies that drive revenue.  

Connect with Kelsey Voss:
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In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast, host Lee Odden sits down with David Rowlands, Head of Content at B2B Marketing and Propolis, to talk about how the role of B2B marketing is evolving. From his unconventional path into B2B marketing to leading content and community for a global audience of B2B marketing practitioners, David shares his  perspective on what's changed, and what hasn't, when it comes to creating impact in the world of B2B.

Their conversation centers on the rise of the Commercial Marketer, which is a shift from campaign-driven execution to strategic, revenue-focused leadership. Lee and David dig in to how changing buyer behavior, increased pressure for accountability, and the growing influence of AI are changing expectations for B2B marketers. They also discuss why aligning with sales, product, and finance is no longer optional, and how marketers need to move beyond MQLs to drive real business outcomes.

If you're a B2B marketer navigating increased expectations, evolving technology, and the need to prove value, this episode offers is a smart way to understand how B2B marketers can become more relevant in a time of significant change.

Highlights & takeaways from this episode:

• The difference between promotional marketers and commercial marketers-and why it matters now
• How shifting buyer behavior is putting marketing at the center of revenue growth
• Why aligning with sales, product, and finance is critical for modern B2B teams
• The growing impact of AI and LLMs on content, discovery, and marketing strategy
• Why data-driven, differentiated content is replacing generic "blog-first" approaches
• The increasing role of community, influencers, and peer validation in B2B decision-making
• Practical steps marketers can take to become more strategic and commercially impactful

Connect with David Rowlands:
LinkedIn

Connect with TopRank Marketing:
Lee Odden on LinkedIn
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B2B go-to-market models are under pressure from every direction: AI-powered buyer autonomy, expanding buying networks. collapsing funnels, and fragmented tech stacks.

As a result, B2B marketing is approaching a "GTM Singularity."

In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast, host Lee Odden talks with Dave Frankland, VP and Research Director at Forrester, about some of the major changes transforming B2B marketing, sales, and customer strategy - and why legacy revenue models are about to break.

As the opening keynote speaker and host of Forrester's B2B Summit North America, Dave explains why the singularity in GTM singularity is not about AI replacing humans, but about the pressures forcing GTM norms to collapse and new models to emerge. From AI-driven buyer autonomy to the rise of buying networks and answer engines, this conversation dives in to what senior marketing leaders must rethink now to stay visible, trusted, and relevant.

You'll hear insights on:

• Why "buying has become an act of confirmation, not selection"
• How AI search and buyer autonomy are eroding traditional funnel visibility
• What "trusted discovery" means in an AI-mediated world
• The risks of siloed AI adoption across marketing, sales, and customer success
• Why strategy-to-execution alignment is the real GTM transformation challenge
• Forrester's predictions for influencer investment, decentralized content creation, and marketing accountability
• How B2B leaders should approach AI governance and human-AI orchestration

If you are a B2B marketer esponsible for marketing, revenue, brand, customer growth, or GTM strategy, this episode offers both the strategic framing and practical shifts you'll need to navigate what comes next in B2B.

Episode Timeline:

00:00 - Introduction to GTM Singularity and the forces driving change
08:50 - Systemic shifts in B2B buyer behavior
19:20 - The GTM crisis: broken funnels, misaligned incentives, and siloed data
22:00 - Defining the GTM Singularity
25:12 - "Buying is an act of confirmation, not selection"
29:56 - The visibility vacuum and trusted discovery
33:00 - Human + AI alignment and orchestration
39:29 - Strategy and execution fusion in GTM transformation
42:24 - 2026 predictions: content decentralization, influencer growth, brand shifts
50:50 - How to get the most out of the 2026 B2B Summit North America event

Be sure to subscribe to the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast so you don't miss upcoming conversations with B2B marketing leaders going beyond the status quo and influencing the future of B2B.

Learn more about Best Answer Marketing and the B2B influence, search and content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing. 

Facts tell but stories sell, so what does great B2B storytelling look like today? 

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Michael Brenner, VP of Thought Leadership and Customer Advocacy at Workday, to talk about how empathy-driven content can help B2B brands tell stories that build trust, drive retention, and stand out.

Michael shares insights from his journey from sales to marketing leadership and explains why "marketing has a marketing problem." He argues that marketing's true role is not promotion, it's helping. The conversation covers how thought leadership should focus on consistent value, why retention is the most overlooked growth lever in B2B, and how customer advocacy strengthens both acquisition and loyalty.

They also talk about the AI productivity paradox and why AI adoption is ultimately a leadership challenge vs. one about technology. Michael outlines practical guidance for redefining roles, measuring outcomes, and ensuring that storytelling remains human in a world of AI and generative content.

If you are a B2B marketer, CMO, content strategist, or business leader looking to create more meaningful engagement and measurable impact, this episode delivers actionable insights you can apply immediately.

Here's a timeline of their conversation:

00:00 Introduction to Michael Brenner and His Journey
01:39 Transition from Sales to Marketing
03:21 Role at Workday: Thought Leadership and Customer Advocacy
07:49 Defining Thought Leadership in Marketing
12:44 The Importance of Retention in Marketing
16:47 Influencer Collaboration in B2B Marketing
20:16 Experiential Content in Thought Leadership
23:49 Navigating the Productivity Trap with AI
29:35 Workforce Trends and AI Adoption
31:09 Empathy-Driven Leadership and Workforce Trends
32:37 The Role of Trust in Marketing
34:31 Human Connection in AI-Driven Marketing
37:16 Evolution of Marketing Channels
40:11 The Importance of Storytelling in Marketing
41:38 Crafting Emotional B2B Stories
44:23 Balancing Informative and Emotional Content
51:55 Breaking Free from the Status Quo in Marketing

Be sure to subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with industry leaders that are helping to guide the future of B2B marketing and how B2B companies can become Best Answer Brands. 

Learn more about the B2B influence, SEO/AEO and creatove content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.

What does human-centered marketing look like when AI is reshaping how buyers discover, evaluate and decide?

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden talks with Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing (Portfolio) at Atlassian and author of Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI.

Ashley shares why traditional funnel thinking falls short in today's B2B environment and how marketers must rethink trust, content intent, and thought leadership. Together, they explore how human behavior-more than automation-should shape your strategy and how brands can authentically influence complex buying journeys.

In this episode, you'll discover:

🔷 Why the traditional marketing funnel no longer mirrors real B2B buyer behavior
🔷 How to build trust at every stage by aligning content with genuine audience intent
🔷 What genuine thought leadership really means-and what it doesn't
🔷 Practical frameworks for elevating internal experts and external validation
🔷How AI amplifies opportunities and risks in human-centric marketing

Whether you're leading content strategy, growth marketing, or customer experience, this episode reorients how influence, credibility, and trust fit into modern B2B demand generation.

Your next steps:
▶️ Subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for weekly insights you can put to work
⭐ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help other B2B leaders discover this show
🔗 Visit the show notes over at the B2B Marketing Blog to access the full transcript, resource links, and episode timestamps

AI is changing B2B marketing fast, but as customer expectations rise and B2B marketing tactics become commoditized by AI tools, the real competitive advantage is customer context.

In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing podcast, Lee Odden talks with Heidi Bullock, Chief Marketing Officer at Tealium and former marketing leader at Marketo and Engagio, about why real-time customer data has become foundational for modern B2B marketing, personalization, AI-driven experiences, and revenue growth for B2B brans.

Heidi shares insights from nearly 25 years in B2B marketing leadership, exploring how customer context powers more relevant buyer experiences, stronger personalization, better sales and marketing alignment, and more effective AI-powered marketing. The conversation also looks at how fragmented discovery across AI search, Reddit, YouTube, communities, review platforms, and dark funnel channels is changing how marketers think about visibility, trust, and buyer engagement.

Here are 5 important takeaways from this conversation about customer context:

Customer context is becoming the real competitive advantage in AI-powered marketing
As AI models and tools become increasingly commoditized, the quality, freshness, and contextual relevance of customer data is what differentiates buyer experiences and marketing performance.

There is no such thing as a "perfect" buyer journey anymore
Modern B2B buying journeys are dynamic and nonlinear, requiring marketers to respond to real-time behavioral signals instead of relying on static funnels and rigid nurture tracks.

Real-time data is fundamentally changing personalization
The shift from rules-based personalization to AI-powered orchestration enables marketers to deliver more relevant content, messaging, and experiences based on current buyer behavior and intent.

Trust depends on consented, connected customer data
Strong customer experiences require accurate, unified, and permission-based data that reduces friction, improves relevance, and builds confidence throughout the buying journey.

AI increases the importance of human judgment, not decreases it
AI can accelerate execution and improve efficiency, but marketers still need human expertise for strategy, creativity, governance, differentiation, and maintaining brand integrity.

Be sure to subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with B2B marketing industry leaders about how B2B companies can become Best Answer Brands by building visibility, trust, and decision confidence with buyers and those that influence them.  

Learn more about the B2B influence, SEO/AEO and creative content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.

As B2B buying becomes more fragmented, networked, and influenced by AI, how can marketing leaders build trust, align buying groups, and drive decisions with confidence?

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Debbie Kestin Schildkraut, VP, Global B2B Program Lead and CMO Global Growth Council at the Association of National Advertisers. With a career spanning global leadership roles at IBM and industry-wide initiatives at ANA, Debbie brings a unique perspective on how B2B marketing is evolving at the intersection of AI, community, and influence.

Together, they explore why today's buyer journey is no longer linear, how AI is reshaping both discovery and decision-making, and why the most effective marketing strategies are built around trust, validation, and shared experiences-not just reach and visibility.

Key Takeaways from this Episode:

The Fragmented Discovery Challenge:
B2B buyers are navigating a non-linear, networked journey across AI platforms, communities, and peer recommendations-making traditional funnel-based strategies less effective.

The Rise of Buyer Consensus:
With buying groups expanding to 15-20+ stakeholders, marketers must shift from targeting individuals to enabling group confidence, validation, and decision defense.

AI's Real Impact on Marketing:
AI is transforming content lifecycle management and insight generation, but success depends on governance, human oversight, and reinvestment in creative and analytical capabilities.

Community as a Growth Engine:
Communities and peer networks are becoming critical drivers of influence, providing real-time validation that often outweighs brand messaging.

Experiential Marketing as Differentiation:
Memorable, interactive experiences-both physical and digital-are increasingly essential for engaging buyers and standing out in crowded markets.

Influence as a Credibility System:
From customer advocacy to employee creators and partner ecosystems, trusted voices are becoming central to how B2B brands build relevance and trust.

About Our Guest:

Debbie Kestin Schildkraut is VP, Global B2B Program Lead and CMO Global Growth Council at the Association of National Advertisers. A recognized change agent, she has spent more than two decades leading global B2B marketing initiatives at IBM and building industry-wide programs at ANA. Her expertise spans ecosystem marketing, community building, and emerging technologies, with a focus on helping CMOs drive growth through collaboration, innovation, and strategic alignment.

Connect with Debbie Kestin Schildkraut:
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Connect with TopRank Marketing:
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