Digital products don’t just live online. They are made up of people, experiences, and awe-inspiring innovation. This show shares the stories of industry-leading companies whose products have a soul, a mission, and a vision.
Through engaging conversations with CEOs, entrepreneurs, and innovators, hosts Christian and Meghan explore the notion of what it takes to build better products. Better Product weaves a narrative story about the good, the bad, and the ugly of ideating and activating the digital products that have launched businesses and changed the world.
Listen weekly to understand how digital products are created, how design influences adoption and ultimately, why product means everything.
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How Product Marketers Lead As Company Quarterbacks with Kimberly Biddings, BIO-key International
Tuesday, June 28, 2022 • Duration 42:36
Product marketing is at the intersection of many teams in a product company. The work of a product marketer supports the wider product team, sales, marketing, executive stakeholders, and most of all, buyers. It’s for this reason product marketers tend to play a quarterback role, says Kimberly Biddings, VP of Product at BIO-key International. As Kim knows from experience, they’re responsible for not just knowing a product in and out—they have to translate its selling points for others to use. Join Kim and Tina to hear more about the opportunities product marketers can bring to your growing organization.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Takeaways:
Product marketing starts from the second there’s a business idea.
Growing a business without product marketing is like driving a car without direction: aimless and unpredictable.
There’s more than one way to be a product marketer.
Things To Listen For:
[0:30] Icebreaker: Who is on your dream interview list (aside from the amazing guests we talked to for Unlock Product Marketing)?
[2:00] Why did we create this series?
[4:00] Introducing today's guest, Kimberly Biddings of BIO-key International
[6:00] Takeaway: there are different kinds of product marketers, not just one
[7:00] Intro to Kimberly Biddings and her cybersecurity product marketing career
[8:30] How Tina and Kim met with product marketing and brand work through Innovatemap
[10:00] In the beginning, many people did product marketing in marketing roles
[10:30] What is a regional product manager? And why teams still need PMM advocates.
[12:00] What are the jobs to be done by product marketing?
[14:00] Product marketers are like company quarterbacks
[15:00] If you need product marketing from day one, why is it typically one of the last roles to be hired?
[16:00] The seven stages of product marketing as a company scales
[18:30] You have to market yourself as a product marketer so people understand it
[21:00] Find bite-sized ways to inject product marketing strategy into your interactions
[27:30] Product marketing’s first question: does anyone actually care about this?
[29:00] Don’t start with the what, start with the why
[31:00] Always consider “who are you talking to?” and “what are you saying?”
[38:00] Be your product manager’s best friend
Why Your Positioning Should ‘Pick a Fight and Take a Stand’ with Catherine Spence, Microblink
Tuesday, June 21, 2022 • Duration 38:17
One of the fundamental strategies product marketers must lead is positioning. It’s what determines how you’ll talk about your product, your company, and your brand as you scale. So why do so many people get it wrong? Catherine Spence, VP of Global Marketing at Microblink, joins Leanna to share her best lessons on brand and product positioning, from leading marketing at an international company to her own startup, Pomello. If you’re looking to stay in your comfort zone, this isn’t the episode for you. Catherine shows us why we need to use our positioning to pick a fight and take a stand, especially in B2B SaaS.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Takeaways:
Positioning gives you focus. You can’t be everything to everyone.
Product positioning should make you think.
Brand positioning should make you feel.
Don’t prioritize brand positioning until you have product-market fit.
Things To Listen For:
[2:00] Icebreaker: If you had to write an autobiography and name it after one of your guilty pleasures, what would you call it?
[3:00] What’s the difference between brand positioning and product positioning? How do marketers and PMMs work together to define it?
Harnessing Fast Feedback for Better Product Marketing with Peep Laja, Wynter
Tuesday, April 19, 2022 • Duration 37:23
Product marketing is an evolving field with much left to define about what product marketers can actually measure and support. Peep Laja founded his company, Wynter, on the belief that product marketers do better work with swift, real-time feedback on their product messaging. In today’s conversation, he explains why taking weeks (or even months) to do critical testing and validation puts your product in a losing position. He’ll also describe how Wynter is helping B2B product marketers get impactful insights on their product’s messaging & positioning, without wasting time on KPIs that keep you looking in the rearview mirror.
Want to get even better at B2B product marketing? Follow along with Peep’s How to Win podcast and the Wynter newsletter.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Takeaways:
If you wait to test and validate your product marketing, you lose.
Product marketers should prioritize the speed of feedback.
When marketing your product, prioritize function over form.
The best differentiation is to actually be different.
The Skills You Need To Thrive In Product
Tuesday, April 12, 2022 • Duration 39:54
Opportunities in product today are seemingly endless. But if you’re new to the industry or looking to break in, it can be hard to know what skills you need to succeed. Many roles don’t have precise requirements, and product itself is continuously evolving. Today, Christian & Meghan will share their takes on the habits and mindsets that will serve product people at any stage of their careers. We’re talking about the impact of good taste, critical thinking, ego vs. insecurity, and how knowledge of other product disciplines can accelerate your own work.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Takeaways:
If you focus only on adhering to the process, you’ll lose sight of the why.
Design isn’t just art; it’s a problem solver.
Success in product requires us to keep ego & insecurity in check.
Things To Listen For:
[0:00] A re-introduction to our moderator, Erica Irish, and what role she’ll serve
[3:00] Breaking the ice with an alternate universe: what would Christian & Meghan be doing with their careers if they hadn’t chosen a path in product?
[9:00] Post-retirement aspirations, a better design school, and NFT PhDs
[11:00] How Christian & Meghan first found their careers in product
[15:00] Knowledge of good design applies regardless of the medium
How Great Food & Personalized Perks Support People Ops with Mel Skochdopole, Parkday
Tuesday, April 5, 2022 • Duration 34:25
It’s the series finale of Power to the People Ops, and today, we’ve got a real treat. We’re speaking with Mel Skochdopole, co-founder of Parkday—a.k.a. “the Tinder of food.” Using the power of data, Parkday curates personalized workplace meals that are tailored to everyone’s food preferences. As a result, Parkday is saving people ops leaders valuable time and protecting them from the awkward (and potentially damaging) mistake of ordering food someone on their team can’t eat. Meghan and Mel explore how food is a small but powerful way to affect work culture and how people ops products can get personalized perks right.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Takeaways
Don’t just add workplace perks—personalize them with product.
Food quality can directly affect team productivity and health.
Things To Listen For
[1:30] Introducing Mel & Parkday’s mission of building data-driven food programs
[2:00] How Parkday personalizes meals, as inspired by the founders’ own food preference journeys
Designing Work to Fit People with Julie Jeannotte, Officevibe
Tuesday, March 29, 2022 • Duration 34:57
Employee engagement is at the core of what keeps people motivated, productive, and happy at work. But unlocking what keeps people engaged is easier said than done. That’s why Julie Jeannotte, senior researcher at Officevibe by GSoft, is on a journey to create a product that measures and responds to engagement. Using pulse surveys and curated conversation starters, Officevibe is measuring human nature with science and creating a space for real talk at all levels of the workplace.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Clarification: At 15:02, Julie says "60%" of Officevibe's clients are enterprise companies. Officevibe actually serves 60 enterprise clients total. The vast majority of companies that use Officevibe are small or mid-size, with teams between 0 to 100 employees.
Takeaways:
In people ops, asking questions is what matters most. But how you ask will determine what you uncover.
When employees are more engaged, they’re more productive & innovative.
Recognition and sense of purpose are drivers of engagement that people ops products can harness.
Things To Listen For:
Productizing Ideas in the Services Industry with Tim Pröhm, VP at the KellyX Digital Innovation Lab
Tuesday, March 22, 2022 • Duration 36:16
With an uptick in challenges like the Great Resignation and remote work, companies who are hiring today must understand people—their users—in order to thrive. Tim Pröhm, vice president at the KellyX Digital Innovation Lab, recognizes this opportunity and is using it to introduce agile product thinking and a significant digital transformation to the 75-year-old recruiting firm Kelly. Kelly impacts thousands of workers around the world each year and is setting the example for how to attract and retain talent at a critical moment. In this episode, Tim shares how his team encourages startup strategy in the enterprise world, and how they are bringing the people ops wave to new heights through Kelly’s reach.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Takeaways:
People ops products only succeed if they are customized to the holistic employee experience.
The job of people ops is to ask, “what do the people in your organization need to be successful?”
Things To Listen For:
[1:30] Tim’s journey to product & his career intersections with the service industry
[3:30] Background on Kelly and its global influence in the staffing & talent industry
The Future is People Ops with John Wetzel, Gather
Tuesday, March 15, 2022 • Duration 27:45
Imagine a world where every person in a company is understood. They have engaging 1:1s with managers where their voices are heard, and consistent opportunities to connect with their peers—whether they work together or not. This is the future people ops products are building; and, it’s the same future John Wetzel is defining as CEO & co-founder of Gather. He explains how people ops is transforming companies, how product leaders in the space can get necessary feedback, and most importantly, how Gather strives to get people ops leaders at early-stage companies “off their islands” to deliver a better employee experience.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Takeaways:
People ops is owning more and more of what HR once covered.
The best outcomes of people ops products happen in real life.
Effective people ops leaders think like product managers.
Things To Listen For:
[2:00] How Gather got started, with inspiration from 2019
[3:00] John’s past experiences in hardware and software before founding Gather
[5:00] How John defines “people ops,” and how the category differs from HR
[5:15] The three functions of traditional HR: talent acquisition, logistics, people operations (a.k.a culture, communications, DEI)
Series Kick-Off: Power To The People Ops
Tuesday, March 8, 2022 • Duration 22:17
Many employers are coming to a huge realization: there’s power in investing in people. But keeping teams happy, organized, and engaged at work can be easier said than done. That’s why in recent years, dozens of digital products have emerged to give rise to the challenge. So-called people operations, or people ops, products exist to give workers better processes that can help them believe in (and stay) at their companies amid challenges like the Great Resignation. In this series of Better Product, we’re exploring how people ops products are one way employers can ensure their teams are seen, heard, and respected, and why these products are growing in popularity.
We’re talking to leaders in the people ops space, including:
Our producer Erica is joining the conversation to ask the tough questions and be an advocate for you, our listeners. Want to add your own take? Write a note or record a voice memo, and send it to erica.irish@innovatemap.com to join the conversation.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at
Growth Design Is More Than Just Another Buzzword
Tuesday, March 1, 2022 • Duration 26:43
Growth design is a powerful concept. It’s how we bring the goals of product marketing into focus and activate those goals through great design. As Christian puts it, it’s about evolving the areas of your product that grow metrics like revenue and users. But too often, growth design is reduced to a buzzword; to make the most of the practice, you have to consider the context in which you’re working. This episode explores what growth design looks like today, what it is not, and how it takes the best of two product disciplines, PMM and UX, to accelerate change.
Oh, and we’re trying something new with the show. Today you’ll hear a new voice: our producer Erica is joining the conversation to ask the tough questions and be an advocate for you, our listeners. Want to add your own take? Write a note or record a voice memo, and send it to erica.irish@innovatemap.com to join the conversation.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter to see the latest in Better Product, a show part of the Better Product Community powered by Innovatemap. The community is the connection point for product leaders & practitioners to learn and share what it takes to design, build, market, and sell better products. Learn more at betterproduct.community.
Takeaways:
Growth design is about building features that accelerate growth in your product, like increasing revenue and users.
At its core, growth design is the intersection of product marketing and UX.
[2:00] Better copy leads to conversion. But how do you know if your copy is good?
[3:00] How Wynter can give you direct feedback from your target customer
[6:00] Product marketing is ultimately about finding common ground between opinions—from your marketers, your sales team, your CEO, and your customers
[7:30] Wynter’s goal is to speed up feedback loops; no more waiting for insights
[9:00] Wynter democratizes user research, even if you’re not a research expert
[9:30] Product marketing is troublesome because it’s a new & evolving role
[10:00] Don’t let your product marketers be “deck monkeys”
[13:00] Revenue as a metric is like looking through the rearview mirror
[14:30] Peep’s 5 buckets for understanding product messaging:
Clarity - does your audience “get it”? Do they want it?
Relevance - are you speaking about things that are a high priority?
Desirability - is your product’s value understood? Do people want it?
Differentiation - have you made clear how your product stands out?
Brand - are you creating the right perception for your product?
[17:00] “Messaging and copy are the manifestations of your positioning”
[21:00] Clarity in messaging is key: “if they don’t get it, they’re not going to buy it”
[23:30] Don’t treat your website homepage like Netflix
[24:30] What it looks like to sell a category vs. sell a narrative
[30:00] Differentiation also comes down to how you see yourself
[17:00] What we mean by good taste, stolen ideas, and an Ira Glass reference
[22:00] The importance of critical thinking and learning from other product roles
[24:30] How ego and insecurity impact your product work—and why to never keep a tight grasp on anything you’ve created
[26:30] Earn trust so you to make the decisions in the product area you own
[28:00] Strive to separate yourself from the features
[29:00] Questions you can ask about product in the face of critique
[30:00] A multidisciplinary product perspective gets us closer to where the truth is
[35:30] “If you were the friend who made the study guides, you’d probably make a good product marketer,” and other product personas
[4:00] As companies return to the office, food is something that will always be impactful; it unifies teams across departments
[5:00] The issue for people ops leaders: food is important, but it takes a lot of time and effort to curate the best meals for every person in a company
[7:00] Good food is a matter of team productivity and health
[9:30] 85% of people are looking to eat healthier or follow a specific diet today, and that preference is even stronger among young workers
[12:00] Why Parkday is “the Tinder of food” and how to use it to find your food type (anyone else out there a spicy vegetarian? 🌶)
[15:00] How Parkday found its way by supporting the people ops space
[18:00] The perfect storm affecting the transition from HR to people ops
[19:00] What we mean by total compensation and the impact of workplace perks
[1:30] Introducing Julie Jeannotte and her experiences in HR and people ops
[5:00] How product thinking and agility found its way into the HR industry
[7:00] The people ops mantra: finding ways to “put employees first”
[7:30] Considering people ops as an approach vs. a business function
[8:00] Why people ops products need to introduce more than cosmetic changes, like fun title changes (“chief happiness officer”)
[9:00] The original people ops definition from Laszlo Bock: helping employees be “productive, healthier, and happier”
[10:30] How Officevibe shapes employee experiences through pulse surveys
[11:00] How Officevibe’s parent company, GSoft, embraces a “fail, adapt, learn, build, and grow” philosophy
[12:00] Why Officevibe’s product features strive to build “cultures of feedback”
[16:00] The science behind Officevibe’s pulse surveys, illustrated by a tree
[19:30] Without good relationships, engagement efforts in product fall apart
[26:30] Expectations in the employee-employer contract are changing
[4:30] How technology & product thinking emerged in Kelly’s work in recent years
[5:00] “It’s not about the human interaction anymore” in a digital world
[5:30] Innovation emerged through rapid prototyping, being responsive to users
[7:00] Lessons from Laszlo Bock’s book, “Work Rules!” on people ops vs. HR
HR focuses on compliance and traditional administration
People ops focus on “the full, real experience” in the organization
[8:00] Why you shouldn't exclude people ops leaders from strategic product decisions
[8:30] If you can’t retain or attract talent, your org will fail; people ops can help
[11:30] HR professionals tried to “rebrand” as people ops before, but it didn’t work
[12:30] COVID made companies realize workforce strategy needs to be holistic
[13:30] The reality of “the overwhelmed employee” experience (hint: it’s more common than you might think)
[21:00] The importance of real-time visibility in business and people ops
[23:00] How automation, hiring, and people ops go hand-in-hand
[25:00] The growing importance of qualitative research
[27:00] “Digital transformation is a neverending exercise”
[30:00] Why startups and corporations need to “cross-pollinate”
[6:00] The reality: people operations is owning “more and more” of HR
[6:15] Is people ops going to become the “new HR,” or something else?
[7:00] Explaining how the Gather product automates people ops work
[8:30] How Gather integrates with Slack as a “workflow builder”
[9:00] Why Gather leverages & automates HRIS, the “CRM” of people ops
[10:00] Exploring Gather’s unique product features, like the onboarding buddy
[11:30] The best outcomes of Gather happen in real life, not through automation
[13:00] Why John & Gather believe “the future is people ops”
[14:00] How marketing a people ops product relates to category creation
[15:30] Why does the world need people ops?
[16:00] How John pairs his personal brand with Gather’s in marketing people ops
[17:00] How the Great Resignation is affecting people ops products
[19:00] People ops is about harnessing the small moments in the workplace
[20:00] For people ops leaders, their product is the employee experience
[24:00] Community can give you early feedback on your product and priorities
[3:00] Why Christian & Meghan were initially skeptical about growth design
[4:00] Growth design is a layer on top of UX design meant to help the product accelerate growth, in revenue, users, etc.
[4:30] Hear more from Pinterest’s growth design team in our 2020 episode
[6:00] Growth design brings product marketing into focus (e.g., microcopy)
[8:00] Growth design leads to “users supporting other users” (product-led growth)
[9:30] How web3 and decentralization could affect growth design (or not)
[12:30] Growth design accelerates users who are beyond the “hesitancy phase”
[13:00] Products need a category foundation before they get to growth design
[14:00] Examining NFTs, community membership…and an NFT vending machine
[16:00] A case study: Coinbase’s experimental Super Bowl commercial
[17:30] Why “marketing is never responsible for education,” but PMM can be
[20:00] Growth design as understood through Andrew Chen’s “cold start problem”
[20:30] The early stages of a product should be different from your later stages
[21:00] The goal of your first stage: figure out if your product is valuable, so you have something good to grow from
[23:30] How to define and think about “growth design features”
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