Writer Guy Stagg threw in his job to undertake a pilgrimage to Jerusalem via Rome - choosing a hazardous medieval route across the Alps. It nearly killed him: at one stage, trying to cross a broken bridge in Switzerland, he ended up partially submerged in the water, held up only by his rucksack. 

On this episode of Holy Smoke, from the archives, Guy explains why his journey was a pilgrimage, not just travels. And Damian Thompson talks to Harry Mount, editor of The Oldie, about why he’s irresistibly drawn to church buildings while remaining an unbeliever - albeit an agnostic rather than an atheist.

On this week’s Spectator Out Loud: Joan Collins reads an extract from her diary (1:15); Owen Matthews argues that Russia and China’s relationship is just a marriage of convenience (3:19); reviewing The White Ladder: Triumph and Tragedy at the Dawn of Mountaineering by Daniel Light, Sara Wheeler examines the epic history of the sport (13:52); Igor Toronyi-Lalic looks at the life, cinema, and many drinks, of Marguerite Duras (21:35); and Tanya Gold provides her notes on tasting menus (26:07). 
 
Presented and produced by Patrick Gibbons.  

The Book Club has taken a short summer break and will return in September with new episodes. Until then, here’s an episode from the archives with the theoretical physicist Carlo Rovelli.

Carlo joined Sam in March 2023 to discuss his book Anaximander and the Nature of Science and explain how a radical thinker two and a half millennia ago was the first human to intuit that the earth is floating in space. He tells Sam how Anaximander’s way of thinking still informs the work of scientists everywhere, how politics shapes scientific progress and how we can navigate the twin threats of religious dogma and postmodern relativism in search of truth. 

On this week’s Spectator Out Loud: Philosopher Slavoj Zizek takes us through his diary including his Britney Spears Theory of Action (1:08); Angus Colwell reports from the front line of the pro-Palestinian student protests (8:09); Svitlana Morenets provides an update on what’s going on in Georgia, where tensions between pro-EU and pro-Russian factions are heading to a crunch point (13:51); Cindy Yu analyses President Xi’s visit to Europe and asks whether the Chinese leader can keep his few European allies on side (20:52); and, Philip Hensher proposes banning fun runs as a potential vote winner (26:01). 

Produced by Patrick Gibbons and Oscar Edmondson.

Lisa Cameron was born in Glasgow and grew up in East Kilbride, the constituency she now represents. After three elections under the SNP, she memorably defected to the Scottish Conservatives in 2023. At the time, Humza Yousaf described it as the least surprising news he’d had since becoming first minister. 

On the podcast, Lisa tells Katy about the need for increased investment into mental health provision, her defection from the SNP to the Tories and why Scottish independence is a failed experiment.

This week:

On Monday, tents sprung up at Oxford and Cambridge as part of a global, pro-Palestinian student protest which began at Columbia University. In his cover piece, Yascha Mounk, a professor at Johns Hopkins University, explains how universities in both the US and the UK have misguidedly harboured and actively encouraged absurdist activism on campuses. Yascha joined the podcast to discuss further. (01:57)

Next: Bugs, biscuits, trench foot: a dispatch from the front line of the protests. The Spectator’s Angus Colwell joined students at tent encampments this week at UCL, Oxford and Cambridge. He found academics joining in with the carnival atmosphere. At Cambridge one don even attended with their baby in tow. ‘Peaceful protest? Rubbish it does nothing,’ a UCL student tells him. ‘Zionist attitudes start young, and we need our institutions to correct that. None of us are free until all of us are free, until Zionism is gone.’ One Jewish UCL student claims they were spat at by protestors ‘who told us to go back to Poland’. As part of his research, Angus sat down with Anwar, a spokesperson for the protestors at University College London and he sent us that conversation, which you can hear on the podcast. (17:34)

Then: Lara and Will take us through some of their favourite pieces from the magazine, including Philip Hensher’s Life column and James Delingpole’s review of Shardlake on Disney +.

And finally: should we take Beryl Cook more seriously? In his arts lead for the magazine this week, Julian Spalding writes about Beryl Cook whose unique art is celebrated by many as an exuberant take on everyday life. However she is often looked down upon within the art establishment. To coincide with a new exhibition of her work at Studio Voltaire we thought we would reappraise her legacy with Julian and Rachel Campbell-Johnston, former chief art critic at the Times. (29:44)

Hosted by William Moore and Lara Prendergast. 

Produced by Oscar Edmondson. 

This week, my guest on the Book Club podcast is the poet Jackie Kay, whose magnificent new book May Day combines elegy and celebration. She tells me about her adoptive parents – a communist trade unionist and a leading figure in CND – and growing up in a household where teenage rebellion could mean going to church. We also discuss her beginnings as a poet, her debt to Robbie Burns and Angela Davis and how grief itself can be a form of protest. 

Michael Zee is an author, cook and the creator of SymmetryBreakfast, which started as an Instagram account, before amassing over 670,000 followers and becoming one of the ‘most popular food books of 2016’. He is now based in Italy and known for his particular brand of British-Chinese fusion food. His third book, Zao Fan: Breakfast of China, is out now. 

On the podcast he tells Lara about working in his father's restaurant, the joy of char siu bao and where to find the best Chinese food in Italy. 

Freddy speaks to Norman Ornstein, political scientist and emeritus scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. They discuss the possibility of Donald Trump becoming a dictator, his ongoing court cases, and if there's a double standard in the treatment of Trump vs Biden.

On this week’s Spectator Out Loud: Sean Thomas worries that Paris has lost some of its charm (1:21); Kara Kennedy reports on US-style opioids arriving in Britain (8:43); Philip Hensher describes how an affair which ruined one woman would be the making of another (15:32); Damian Thompson reflects on his sobriety and his battle with British chemists (23:58); and, Toby Young argues a proposed law in Wales amounts to an assault on parliamentary sovereignty (29:26).
 
Produced and presented by Patrick Gibbons.

Freddy speaks to Victor Davis Hanson, classicist, military historian and political commentator.

They discuss his new book The End of Everything, and ask whether the west should be taking note of history in order to avoid annihilation, and where the US is heading. 

This week:

Survival plan: is Rishi ready for the rebels? Ever since his election, Rishi Sunak has been preparing for this weekend – where the most likely scenario is that dire local election results are slow-released, leaving him at a moment of maximum vulnerability. He has his defences ready against his regicidal party, says Katy Balls: the Rwanda plan, a welfare reform agenda and a 4p NI cut (with hints of 2p more to come). And while the rebels have a (published) agenda they do not – yet – have a candidate. Katy joins the podcast alongside Stephen Bush, associate editor of the Financial Times. (02:12)

Next: Lara and Gus take us through some of their favourite pieces from the magazine, including Damian Thompson's Life column, and Joel Golby’s notes on ⅓ pints. 

Then: Everyone has heard of the ‘Essex Man’ that helped the Conservatives win in 1992, but what about the Hillingdon man? Journalist William Cook identifies a new swing voter in the magazine, the disgruntled Hillingdon man from sleepy Ruislip and the surrounding villages. He says that the reliably Tory voters of Hillingdon could change the habit of a lifetime and vote for Starmer. William joined the podcast to discuss. (15:46)

And finally: Mary Wakefield writes in defence of Victorian parenting in this week's magazine. She says that kids these days could benefit from some 'stiff upper lip' parenting and the resilience she learnt from her time at boarding school. She also warns against encouraging children to focus on their feelings and sending them to therapy. To debate, we were joined by Jean Twenge, author of the Generation Tech substack and the book Generations: The Real Differences between Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Boomers and Silents—and What They Mean for America’s Future and The Spectator’s literary editor Sam Leith. (23:29)

Hosted by Lara Prendergast and Gus Carter. 

Produced by Oscar Edmondson and Patrick Gibbons. 

On this week's Book Club podcast I'm joined by Ariane Bankes, whose mother Celia was one of the great beauties of the early twentieth century. Ariane's new book The Quality of Love: Twin Sisters at the Heart of the Century tells the story of the defiantly bohemian lives of Celia and her twin sister Mamaine, whose love affairs and friendships with Arthur Koestler, George Orwell, Albert Camus, Edmund Wilson and Freddie Ayer put them at the centre of the political and intellectual ferment of their age.

Douglas Murray joins Freddy Gray on the Americano podcast to discuss free speech in Britain following the sentences handed down after the riots, how different free speech is in America, and how Douglas himself became a victim of online hate. 

Freddy Gray speaks to writer, podcaster and musician Coleman Hughes. His latest book The End of Race Politics, The: Arguments for a Colorblind America put forward Martin Luther King's teachings for a colourblind society. On the podcast they discuss Coleman's recently appearance on The View; whether Coleman thinks Trump is racist and how the Israel-Gaza war exposed the failings of US universities. 

Last week, President Joe Biden finally signed into law a bill that would take TikTok off app stores in the US, eventually rendering the app obsolete there. This is not the end of the saga, as TikTok has vowed to take legal action. In the US, the drive to decouple from Chinese tech continues to rumble on.

In this episode, we’ll be taking a look at the reverse trend – the Chinese decoupling from American tech. It’s a story that tends to go under the radar in light of bans and divestments from the US, but you might be surprised at how much China is cutting out American tech too – and doing it much more quietly.

Cindy Yu is joined by the journalist Liza Lin, who has been following this story in her detailed coverage for the Wall Street Journal. She is also a co-author of Surveillance State: Inside China's Quest to Launch a New Era of Social Control.

Produced by Cindy Yu and Joe Bedell-Brill.

You can also join Cindy Yu at The Spectator's Chinese wine lunch on June 14th. To find out more and buy tickets, visit spectator.co.uk/chinesewine.

Freddy speaks to Angus Hanton, entrepreneur and author of Vassal State: How America Runs Britain, and William Clouston, leader of the Social Democratic Party. They discuss the ‘Special Relationship’ between the US and the UK, and ask whether it might be detrimental to British business.

On this week’s Spectator Out Loud: reporting from St Helena, Douglas Murray reflects on the inhabitants he has met and the history of the British Overseas Territory (1:12); Lionel Shriver opines on the debate around transgender care (9:08); following a boyhood dream to visit the country to watch cricket, Mark Mason reads his letter from India as he travels with his son (17:54); and, Graeme Thomson reviews Taylor Swift’s new album (22:41).
 
Produced and presented by Patrick Gibbons.

Young, female entrepreneurship is on the rise. Two years ago, 17,500 businesses were founded by women aged 16-25, which is 22 times greater than in 2018. Now, 20 per cent of all businesses across the UK are all-female-led. Yet, when it comes to investment, women consistently underperform their male counterparts. Why? And should more be done to support female entrepreneurs?

To shine a light on some of these issues is Anneliese Dodds MP, the Shadow Secretary of State for Women and Equalities, and Chair of the Labour Party, Jo Overton, the Managing Director for Customer Propositions and Strategy for Business Commercial Banking at Lloyds Banking Group, and Eccie Newton, the co-founder, of Karma Cans, an office lunch delivery company, and Karma Kitchen, that provides commercial kitchen spaces to food businesses.

This podcast is kindly sponsored by Lloyds Banking Group. 

This week: The Xi files: China’s global spy network.

A Tory parliamentary aide and an academic were arrested this week for allegedly passing ‘prejudicial information’ to China. In his cover piece Nigel Inkster, MI6’s former director of operations and intelligence, explains the nature of this global spy network: hacking, bribery, manhunts for targets and more. To discuss, Ian Williams, author of Fire of the Dragon - China's New Cold War, and historian and Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins joined the podcast.. (02:05)

Next: Lara and Gus take us through some of their favourite pieces in the magazine, including Douglas Murray’s column and Gus’s interview with the philosopher Daniel Dennett.

Then: Tim Shipman writes for The Spectator about ‘hyper history’. This refers to the breathless last ten years in political history, encompassing the breakdown of old electoral coalitions, the formation of new ones and decisive prime ministers who all suffer from the same ‘power failure’ – as he calls it. Tim joined the podcast to discuss further. (17:34)

And finally: How the Jilly Cooper Book Club turned toxic. Flora Watkins joined a Jilly Cooper Book Club whose members got along famously – until lockdown and the ensuing culture wars. Debates over vaccines, lockdown and gender split them up more violently than any of their heroine’s books. Flora is joined by the author and journalist Elisa Segrave to examine the toxicity of women-only book groups. (27:50)

Hosted by Lara Prendergast and Gus Carter. 

Produced by Oscar Edmondson and Patrick Gibbons. 

My guest in this week’s Book Club podcast is the author and historian Kathryn Hughes, whose new book Catland tells the story of how we learned to love pusskins. Content warning: contains Kipling, Edward Lear, some stinking carts of offal, and the troubled life and weird art of the extraordinary Louis Wain.

Joel Golby is a journalist who has written for – among others – Vice and the Guardian, where he has a regular column, the watcher, reviewing television. He has since translated his skill for wry observations and self-reflection into the new book Four Stars: A life reviewed which hilariously grapples with our fascination with opinions

On the podcast Joel tells Lara about his appreciation for square sponge and pink custard, why Mum's roast is always the best roast and where a pint is best enjoyed.

Freddy Gray is joined Alan Dershowitz, American lawyer and author of Get Trump: the threat to civil liberties, due process, and our constitutional rule of law. They discuss Trump’s ‘hush money’ trial, what it means for the election and what it tells us about the flaws in the American legal system. 

On this week’s Spectator Out Loud: In light of the help Israel received, Svitlana Morenets issues a challenge to the West to help Ukraine (1:15); Mary Wakefield questions the slow response to the Ministry of Defence being daubed in paint (7:33);  Max Jeffery discusses the aims and tactics of the group responsible for the protest, Youth Demand (13:25); Sam Leith reviews Salman Rushdie's new book (18:59); and Richard Bratby pays tribute to Michael Tanner, The Spectator critic who died earlier this month (27:34).

Produced and presented by Patrick Gibbons.

Trump is tough on China, but what really motivates his hawkishness? Does he care at all about China's human rights abuses? Or is he fundamentally a foreign policy disentangler, hoping to rein back America's overseas commitments? How much does the China policy of a second Trump presidency depend on which advisors the president surrounds himself with?

On this episode of Chinese Whispers, The Spectator's China podcast, assistant editor Cindy Yu talks to deputy editor Freddy Gray and Jordan McGillis, economics editor at the Manhattan Institute's City Journal.

Produced by Cindy Yu and Patrick Gibbons.

Freddy speaks to the diplomat and author Dennis B Ross, who worked under presidents George H W Bush and Bill Clinton. He was a special advisor on the Persian Gulf. They discuss the escalation of tensions in the Middle East and the flak that Joe Biden has come under for his response. Can the US still claim to be able to shape events in the Middle East? And what comes next? 

This week: the usual targets

First: Trump is on trial again – and America is bored rather than scandalised. This is his 91st criminal charge and his supporters see this as politicised prosecution. As an American, Kate Andrews has seen how the law can be used as a political weapon – so why, she asks, is Britain importing the same system? In less than 18 months, the police have been sent to investigate Rishi Sunak for his seat-belt, Nicola Sturgeon for campaign funds, and Angela Rayner over her electoral registry: each time, the complainant is political and the process is the punishment. Kate joins the podcast alongside The Spectator’s editor Fraser Nelson to discuss. (01:34)

Then: Confessions of a defecting Starmtrooper. Katy Balls speaks to Jamie Driscoll, the former Labour North of Tyne mayor, who failed Keir Starmer’s selection process to be mayor of the soon-to-be-created North East metro mayoralty. He’s now running as an independent, backed by Andy Burnham, while half of the Labour council groups are refusing to endorse the official Labour candidate. ‘I know people who have left the Labour party who describe it as leaving an abusive relationship,’ he says. You can read the full interview in the magazine, but we have a short extract of their discussion on the podcast. (13:44)

And finally: Our reporter Max Jeffery gatecrashed a party of the Extinction Rebellion youth offshoot Youth Demand!, whose stunts have included targeting MPs’ houses and dousing the Ministry of Defence in red ink. ‘I’m so ketty!’ one of the partygoers told him (referring to the drugs she was on). ‘They wrote ideas on big sheets of paper and left them lying at the back of the bar while they celebrated. “Rishi Sunak pool/pond – dyeing it red – pool party?” someone wrote. “CEOs’ houses”; “water (Thames)”; “Planes/private jets”; “Eton”; “Transgressive stuff”.’ Max joins the podcast alongside Youth Demand! spokesperson Ella Ward. (24:18)

Hosted by Lara Prendergast and Gus Carter. 

Produced by Oscar Edmondson. 

On this week’s Book Club podcast I’m joined by Percival Everett, who has followed up his Booker-shortlisted The Trees with James, a novel that reimagines the story of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn from the point of view of the fugitive slave Jim. Percival tells me what he learned from Mark Twain, how being funny doesn’t make him a comic novelist, and why Black resistance to racism is a matter of language itself.

It's now 18 months since Liz Truss left Downing Street. She has written a memoir, Ten Years to Save the West, which records her political career since first becoming a cabinet minister. In her first broadcast interview to promote the book, she tells Fraser Nelson about why she thinks the OBR and the Supreme Court should be abolished; how Donald Trump is better for the defense of Ukraine than Joe Biden; and why she didn't listen to her husband when he warned her that her leadership bid would all end in tears.

This interview was originally broadcast on SpectatorTV, The Spectator's regularly updated YouTube channel. 

When I recently came across a book review asking the question ‘was Marco Polo a "sexpat"?’, I knew I had to get its author on to, well, discuss this important question some more. The 13th century Venetian merchant Marco Polo’s account of China was one of the earliest and most popular travelogues written on the country. Polo spent years at the court of Kublai Khan, the grandson of Genghis, and whose family founded the Yuan dynasty in China.

My guest today, and the author of that book review, is the historian Jeremiah Jenne. Jeremiah has lived in China for over two decades, and he is also the co-host of the fascinating podcast Barbarians at the Gate, all about Chinese history. He has been doing a series of historical book reviews for the relatively newly established website China Books Review, and in re-reading The Travels of Marco Polo, he noticed that there was a lot of sex.

We talk about all of this, of course, but there’s a serious point here too. How much do Europeans observe when they go to China and how reliable are their accounts, understood and told through the perspective of the outsider? How much has Marco Polo’s portrayal of China moulded the western mindset on the country in the centuries since, and even today? And what does it say about the China of the 13th century that a trio of Venetian merchants could make it to the heart of the Mongol empire?

This week: Matthew Parris questions what's left to say about the Tories (00:57), Laurie Graham discusses her struggle to see a GP (07:35), Rachel Johnson makes the case against women only clubs (13:38), Laura Gascoigne tells us the truth about Caravaggio's last painting (19:21) and Angus Colwell reads his notes on wild garlic (28:58). 
 
Produced by Oscar Edmondson, Margaret Mitchell and Patrick Gibbons. 
 
Presented by Oscar Edmondson. 

This week, the Arizona Supreme Court reinstated a law from 1864 that bans nearly all abortions in the state. But where do Trump and Biden stand on abortion, and will it be a deciding factor in the 2024 election? 

Freddy's joined by Inez Stepman, Fellow at the Claremont Institute, and Daniel McCarthy, Editor of Modern Age Journal. 

Produced by Megan McElroy. 

Laura Farris comes from something of a political dynasty, both her father and uncle were MPs. The former even represented the same Newbury seat that she currently holds. She studied PPE at Oxford before working as a researcher for Hilary Clinton but she eschewed a political career to work firstly as a journalist and then as a barrister. In 2019 she became MP for Newbury and she now works across both the Home Office and Ministry of Justice. 

On the podcast, Laura tells Katy what she learnt from Hilary Clinton, the things she hopes to achieve by the next election and why Jonathan Sumption has a point about the ECHR. 

This week: will Biden support Ukraine’s attacks on Russia?

Owen Matthews writes the cover piece in light of the Zelensky drone offensive. Ukraine’s most successful strategy to date has been its ingenious use of homemade, long-range drones, which it has used to strike military targets as well as oil refineries and petrol storage facilities in Russia. The strikes are working but have alienated the US, who draw a red line when it comes to attacks on Russian soil. Owen joins the podcast alongside Svitlana Morenets, author of The Spectator’s Ukraine in Focus newsletter to debate what comes next. (01:44)

Next: Will and Lara take us through some of their favourite pieces in the magazine, including Rachel Johnson’s thoughts on women’s only clubs and Angus Colwell’s notes on wild garlic and the new foragers. 

Then: who is the greater threat to democracy, Biden or Trump? This is the question that Lionel Shriver grapples with in her column, where she expresses total disbelief that the grim state of politics in the US hasn’t thrown up an alternative third party. Lionel joins the podcast to discuss what’s left for American voters. (19:47)

And finally: Astronomer David Whitehouse bids a fond farewell to the Voyager 1 space probe which, due to technical difficulties, may soon stop transmitting back to earth. On the podcast, he looks back on what we’ve learnt about space during the 50 years that Voyager has been travelling through the cosmos with Sasha Hinkley, astrophysicist at the University of Exeter and leading a team of scientists on James Webb Telescope. (33:25)

Hosted by William Moore and Lara Prendergast.

Produced by Oscar Edmondson and Patrick Gibbons. 

We are always looking for ways to improve the podcast, please send any feedback to podcast@spectator.co.uk

Today Freddy is joined by Sarah Elliott, senior advisor for the US-UK special relationship unit at the Legatum Institute. They discuss Lord Cameron's visit to America this week and the news that speaker of the House of Representatives Mike Johnson snubbed a meeting with the foreign secretary. Is the special relationship still special? 

Women with Balls has taken a summer break and will be back in September with a new series. Until then, here's an episode from the archives, with current Tory leadership hopeful Kemi Badenoch MP.

Widely seen as one of the Conservative Party’s rising stars upon her election to Parliament in 2017, her star has only continued to rise. Serving under successive PMs, this episode was recorded in May 2022 when she was Minister of State for Local Government, Faith and Communities, and for Equalities. Now many consider her the frontrunner to be Tory leader. 

On the podcast, Kemi talks about her childhood in Nigeria and the golden ticket that was her UK passport, hacking Harriet Harman and what it's like to be a 'rising star'. 

In this week’s Book Club podcast my guest is Dorian Lynskey. In his new book Everything Must Go, Dorian looks at the way humans have imagined the end of the world from the Book of Revelations to the present day. He tells me how old fears find new forms, why Dr Strangelove divides critics, and why there’s always a few people who anticipate global annihilation with something that looks like longing.

On this week’s Spectator Out Loud: James Heale suggests that the London mayoral race could be closer than we think (1:02); Madeleine Teahan argues that babies with down’s syndrome have a right to be born (6:15); Tanya Gold reports from Jerusalem as Israel’s war enters its seventh month (12:32); and William Moore reveals what he has in common with Kim Jong Un (18:25).

Produced and presented by Patrick Gibbons.

Suspected Israeli air strikes were launched on targets in Syria this week and Israel's war in Gaza has entered its seventh month. Americano regular Jacob Heilbrunn joins Freddy to discuss what an escalating situation in the Middle East could mean for Joe Biden. What's the Democrats' strategy? And how could this impact the 2024 election?

Produced by Natasha Feroze and Patrick Gibbons. 

On the podcast this week: what could achieving a large majority at the next election mean for Labour; how much should parents worry about picky eating; and why are humans fascinated with the apocalypse?

First up: The Starmer supremacy.

If the polls are correct, Labour could be on to a record landslide at the next general election. Any political leader would relish such a win. But can achieving such a large majority present internal problems of its own? Labour MP Harriet Harman joins The Spectator’s political editor Katy Balls to discuss. (1:32)

Then: Lara and Gus discuss some of their favourite pieces from the magazine, from Charles Moore’s column to Christopher Matthew’s piece on A. A. Milne’s time at Punch magazine. (16:21)

Next: how much should parents’ fuss over their children? Spectator contributor Hannah Moore argues in the magazine this week that parents shouldn’t worry about picky eating. Hannah joins the podcast, alongside The Spectator’s commissioning editor, Mary Wakefield to discuss this. Look out for a surprise revelation about our usual host William Moore… (18:27)

And finally: why are we so obsessed with the apocalypse? Dorian Lynskey’s new book ‘Everything Must Go’ is reviewed in this week’s magazine. It explores the stories humans tell about the end of the world. Dorian joins us with archaeologist and author Chris Begley who wrote ‘The Next Apocalypse’ about what humans can learn from past disasters. Is there hope for humanity yet? (28:34)

Hosted by Lara Prendergast and Gus Carter.

Produced by Patrick Gibbons. 

We are always looking for ways to improve the podcast, please send any feedback to podcast@spectator.co.uk

My guest on this week's Book Club podcast is the investigative reporter Annie Jacobsen, whose hair-raising new book Nuclear War: A Scenario imagines – minute by minute – what would unfold if the nuclear balloon went up. But rather than a work of fantasy, this is based on meticulously sourced reporting about the effects of nuclear weapons and the structures and policies that govern them. We all knew it would be bad but Jacobsen tells us just how bad, and how fast, and quite how little the people who push the button will actually know about what's going on.

Over the last week the UK has been rocked by allegations that China was responsible for two cyber attacks in recent years – one on the Electoral Commission, where hackers successfully accessed the open register, which has the details of 40 million voters; and a set of attempts to access the emails of a number of China critics within parliament.

So what do we know about China’s cyber capabilities? What are its goals? And now that the UK knows about these attacks, what should we be doing?

Joining Cindy Yu on the podcast today is Nigel Inkster, senior advisor for cyber security and China at the think tank IISS, formerly director of operations and intelligence at MI6, and author of China’s Cyber Power, a 2016 book on precisely this question.

You can also join Cindy Yu at The Spectator's Chinese wine lunch on June 14th. To find out more and buy tickets, visit spectator.co.uk/chinesewine.

This week: Sophie Winkleman tells us why she's fighting to ban smartphones for children (01:01), Svitlana Morenets details how Ukraine plans to revive its birthrate (05:52), Candida Crewe laments the blight that is UHT milk (12:41), and Ysenda Maxtone Graham mourns the loss of the St John's Voices choir (22:43). 

Freddy is joined by evolutionary biologist and host of The DarkHorse Podcast Bret Weinstein. They discuss the Darien Gap, an area of Panama which has become a focal point for America's migrant crisis. Bret has spent some time investigating the area, what's going on?

Anne Jenkin was born in Essex to quite the political family, three of her grandparents were in the House of Lords, and two of them in the Commons as well. Her career in Westminster began in the 1970s and in 2005 she co-founded Women2Win with future Prime Minister Theresa May to encourage more women to get into politics and stand as Conservative candidates. She was made a life peer in 2011 for services to charity and politics. 

This week: how forgiveness was forgotten, why the secular tide might be turning, and looking for romance at the British museum.

Up first: The case of Frank Hester points to something deep going on in our culture, writes Douglas Murray in the magazine this week. ‘We have never had to deal with anything like this before. Any mistake can rear up in front of you again – whether five years later (as with Hester) or decades on.’ American lawyer and author of Cancel Culture: the latest attack on free speech, Alan Dershowitz, joins the podcast to discuss whether forgiveness has been forgotten. (02:11)

Then: Will and Lara take us through some of their favourite pieces from the magazine, including Svitlana Morenets’ article on Ukraine’s fertility crisis and Sophie Winkleman’s notebook.

Next: Justin Brierley writes for The Spectator about the return of religiosity. He argues that after a period of decline, the secular tide is turning with young people returning to Christianity. However he expresses some concern that the flag bearers for this new Christianity – the likes of Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson – might not be the most sincere. Justin joins the podcast alongside Tom Holland, co-host of The Rest is History podcast and author of Dominion: how the Christian revolution remade the world. (13:39)

And finally: looking for love at the British museum. Harry Mount was dispatched to the British museum this week to investigate its new function as a pick up spot. The museum ran a marketing campaign promoting a new exhibition as an opportunity for single women to find single men. The post read: ‘Girlies, if you’re single and looking for a man, this is your sign to go to the British Museum’s new exhibition, Life in the Roman Army, and walk around looking confused. You’re welcome x.’ It added: ‘Come for the Romans, stay for some romance.’ Harry joins the podcast alongside fellow classicist Daisy Dunn. (23:51)

Stay tuned for a short snippet of Rory Sutherland’s proposed new podcast where he interviews leading thinking about trivial topics! (31:27)

Hosted by Lara Prendergast and William Moore. 

Produced by Oscar Edmondson. 

On this week’s Spectator Out Loud: Richard Madeley reads his diary for the week (1:01); Cindy Yu explores the growing trend for all things nostalgic in China (6:00); Lara Prendergast declares that bankers are hot again (11:26); Pen Vogler reviews Sally Coulthard’s book The Apple (17:18); and, James Delingpole argues that Joe Rogan is ‘as edgy as Banksy’ (23:24). 
 
Presented by Patrick Gibbons.  

In this week's Book Club podcast my guest is the Pulitzer prize winning novelist Viet Thanh Nguyen, whose new book is the memoir A Man of Two Faces. He tells me about the value of trauma to literature, learning about his history through Hollywood, falling asleep in class... and the rotten manners of Oliver Stone.

Gennaro Contaldo is an Italian chef, cookbook author and television presenter. He is also known as Jamie Oliver's mentor and Antonio Carluccio's travel partner on Two Greedy Italians. His latest cookbook Gennaro's Verdure – which celebrates seasonal vegetables – is out now. 

On the podcast he tells Liv and Lara about his upbringing on the Amalfi coast, what he's learnt from Jamie Oliver and how he came to love fish and chips. 

Photo credit: David Loftus 

Freddy Gray speaks to editor-at-large of the Wall Street Journal Gerry Baker about whether the media’s wrong reporting of Trump’s ‘bloodshed’ comments have played to his advantage; why America has lost trust in its institutions; and whether voters think the economy was better off under Trump.