Explore every episode of the podcast Bare Knuckles and Brass Tacks

Eric Pilkington joins the show to cut through the noise around artificial intelligence and deliver some hard truths about what's actually working—and what's just expensive theater.

AI isn't new; it's been around for 70+ years. The current generative AI boom is democratization, not innovation—and 95% of AI projects are still failing.

Startups with no product, no customers, and no revenue raising $30-100 million. Companies are getting massive funding without a single dollar of revenue.

The real AI leaders aren't the loudest voices on conference stages. They're the ones quietly embedding AI into workflows, building better products, and closing the gap between pilots and actual impact.

 Most companies chase cost savings instead of using AI to drive top-line growth. You can't cut your way to growth. Real business transformation comes from understanding the actual problems you're solving, not from chasing the newest shiny object. The superheroes of AI aren't prognosticating on stages—they're in garages and labs building things that'll matter five years from now.

Mentioned:

MIT Study on failure of AI pilots in business

Hunter Grad, CEO and founder of Ameliogenix, joins the show to talk about developing mRNA immunotherapies for cardiovascular disease. George K and George A sit down with Hunter to discuss:

• How a procrastinated university project turned into a biotech startup tackling the leading cause of death worldwide
• The novel application of mRNA technology to permanently reduce cholesterol levels through targeting proteins within the body rather than viral diseases
• What it takes to bootstrap a biotech company in Ottawa, not Silicon Valley
• The brutal realities of fundraising in biotech versus software startups, and why pivoting isn't always an option when lives are on the line
• Clearing up the myths and misinformation around mRNA technology, from how it actually works to addressing fertility concerns
• The role of machine learning in accelerating biotech research and drug discovery, and why quality data matters more than flashy AI hype

Hunter breaks down complex immunology concepts into digestible explanations while sharing the raw challenges of being a young founder in a traditionally academic-led industry. This episode explores innovation at the intersection of technology and medicine, the importance of rigorous science over buzzwords, and what it means to swing for the fences on a problem that affects 2 billion people worldwide.

Mentioned:

Using AI, MIT researchers identify a new class of antibiotic candidates

Hannah Storey, Advocacy and Policy Advisor at Amnesty International, joins the show to talk about her new brief that reframes Big Tech monopolies as a human rights crisis, not just a market competition problem.

This isn't about consumer choice or antitrust law. It's about how concentrated market power violates fundamental rights—freedom of expression, privacy, and the right to hold views without interference or manipulation.

Can you make a human rights case against Big Tech? Why civil society needed to stop asking these companies to fix themselves and start demanding structural change. What happens when regulation alone won't work because the companies have massive influence over the regulators?

Is Big Tech actually innovating anymore? Or are they just buying up competition and locking down alternatives? Does scale drive progress, or does it strangle it?

What would real accountability look like? Should companies be required to embed human rights due diligence into product development from the beginning?

Are we making the same mistakes with AI? Why is generative AI rolling forward without anyone asking about water usage for data centers, labor exploitation of data labelers, or discriminatory outcomes?

The goal isn't tweaking the current system—it's building a more diverse internet with actual options and less control by fewer companies.

If you've been tracking Big Tech issues in silos—privacy here, misinformation there, market dominance over here—this episode is an attempt to bring those conversations together in one framework.

Mentioned:

Read more about the Amnesty International report and download the full report here: “Breaking Up with Big Tech: a Human Rights-Based Argument for Tackling Big Tech’s Market Power”

Speech AI model helps preserve indigenous languages

Empire of AI, by Karen Hao

Cory Doctorow’s new book, "Enshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What To Do About It"

RE-ISSUE: This recording corrects for an audio overlap problem in the previous version of this interview at the 28:00 mark.

Zach Lewis, CIO/CISO at University of Health Sciences and Pharmacy in St. Louis, joins the show to talk about his experience with a ransomware attack by the LockBit group.

Zach takes us beyond the technical recovery into territory most people don't talk about: the gut-punch moment of finding the ransom note and the months of running on pure adrenaline while keeping his team from cracking under pressure.

Key takeaways from our conversation:

The human toll matters. When hospital systems go down, it's not just inconvenient. People can't get medications, emergency rooms have to reroute patients, and lives are at stake. This is the cyber war nobody wants to acknowledge.

Attribution is nearly impossible. Even when you know who attacked you, there's rarely closure for victims.

Leading through crisis. Zach shares how he kept his team together during months of remediation by staying calm on the outside, and knowing which team members could handle the pressure and which ones needed to stick to routine work. Sometimes the best leadership is just being that steady presence when everything else is chaos.

If you want to understand what really happens when ransomware strikes, this episode is required listening.

Available wherever you get your podcasts.

Zach's book "Locked Up" drops January 6th and is available for pre-order now: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1394357044

Mentioned:

Cyber Attack Suspected in German Woman’s Death

Chase Cunningham and cyber war

Clinical psychologist, Dr. Sarah Adler, joins the show this week to talk about why “AI Therapy” doesn’t exist, but is bullish on what AI can help therapists achieve.

Dr. Adler is a clinical psychologist and CEO of Wave. She's building AI tools for mental healthcare, which makes her position clear—what's being sold as "AI therapy" right now is dangerous.

Chatbots are optimized to keep conversations going. Therapy is designed to build skills within bounded timeframes. Engagement is not therapy. Instead, Dr. Adler sees AI as a powerful recommendation engine and measurement tool, not as a therapist.

George K and George A talk to Dr. Adler about what Ethical AI looks like, the model architecture for personalized care, who bears responsibility and liability, and more.

The goal isn't replacing human therapists. It's precision routing—matching people to the right care pathway at the right time. But proving this works requires years of rigorous study. Controlled trials, multiple populations, long-term tracking. That research hasn't been done.

Dr. Adler also provides considerations and litmus tests you can use to discern snake oil from real care.

Mental healthcare needs innovation. But you cannot move fast and break things when it comes to human lives.

Mentioned:

A Theory of Zoom Fatigue

Kashmir Hill’s detailed reporting on Adam Raine’s death and the part played by ChatGPT 

(Warning: detailed discussion of suicide)

Colorado parents sue Character AI over daughter's suicide

Sewell Setzer's parents sue Character AI

Deloitte to pay money back after caught using AI in $440,000 report

This week George K and George A switch formats to tackle the AI revolution's messiest questions—from autonomous coding agents to digital actresses and deepfake scams.

The hosts examine what happens when innovation moves faster than ethics. When Claude Sonnet 4.5 promises 30 hours of autonomous coding, what's the real trade-off between productivity gains and security fundamentals? When talent agencies want to represent AI-generated actresses, are we witnessing the death of human performance art or just another moral panic? And when Brazilian scammers can steal millions in $19 increments using celebrity deepfakes, who bears responsibility—the platforms, the regulators, or the users?

They explore the uncomfortable economics behind AI video generation, where companies promised to cure cancer but instead delivered infinite dopamine-mining slop. The conversation digs into data center energy consumption, the exploitation of human attention, and why your grandmother clicking Facebook ads might represent democracy's newest vulnerability.

George A brings a practitioner's lens to AI governance, arguing for education from elementary school up, metadata standards for content authenticity, and balanced regulation that protects innovation without enabling exploitation. George K challenges the fundamental premise: if supercomputers are being pointed at our dopamine receptors just to sell more ads, what happened to building technology that actually improves human life?

Most importantly, they ask: Are we building applications that create a better future, or are we just doubling down on the attention economy?

News examined:

• Anthropic releases Claude Sonnet 4.5 in latest bid for AI agents
• Emily Blunt among Hollywood stars outraged over 'AI actor' Tilly Norwood
• AI: Meta, Google & OpenAI lean into AI Generated Social Videos
• Brazilian scammers, raking in millions, used Gisele Bundchen deepfakes on Instagram ads
  

The lads are traveling this week, so we're revisiting their interview with Savannah Sly, dominatrix and sex worker rights advocate. She joined the show to talk about privacy, power, and the nuances of human intimacy as generative AI takes hold.

George K and George A talk to Savannah about:

• The current state of privacy for vulnerable communities and the real-world operational security challenges they face
• Practical steps individuals can take to protect their digital identities when dating online
• The intersection of AI, deepfakes, and the weaponization of intimate content
• The zeitgeist and cultural headwinds for sex workers today

This week George K and George A switch formats to consider the deeper questions behind recent tech headlines.

The hosts dig into the philosophical tensions driving today's biggest tech stories. When does technological dependency become too dangerous to ignore? How do we distinguish between genuine innovation and elaborate pump-and-dump schemes dressed up as progress? What are the real costs when entire economies become intertwined with a handful of companies?

They explore whether we're witnessing the early stages of a historic bubble or if we're already past the point of no return. The conversation touches on the ethics of deploying untested technology on vulnerable populations, the normalization of surveillance capitalism, and why regulatory capture might be democracy's biggest threat.

Most importantly, they ask the question that should keep every technologist awake at night: Are we building the future we actually want to live in, or are we just building the future that's most profitable for a few?

The news examined:

• Details emerge on the US’ TikTok deal with China 
• Things just got worse for Nvidia in China
• To protect underage users, ChatGPT may ask for ID
• Meta’s smart glasses get smarter

Mentioned in the discussion:

• MIT report: The GenAI Divide STATE OF AI IN BUSINESS 2025
• Ed Zitron’s podcast, Better Offline, and newsletter analysis of “Magnificent Seven” companies
• Kashmir Hill’s detailed reporting on Adam Raine’s death and the part played by ChatGPT (Warning: detailed discussion of suicide)
• Meta’s leaked policy on allowing chatbots to engage in “sensual” chats with children

Phil Dursey joined the show this week to cut through the hype and talked through what red teaming for AI means in mindset and practice.

The conversation reveals a fundamental problem: organizations are rushing to implement AI without understanding their own workflows. Executives are buying "the thing with the AI" expecting magic efficiency gains, but they've never mapped out basic business processes. You can't automate what you don't understand.

Phil's approach starts with the right question: "Are we using the right tool for the use case?"

We also talked about education and kids. Find out why Phil argues philosophy and humanities give you the biggest advantage when working with AI systems. It’s what he looks for in hiring, too. The ability to formulate good questions, understand context, and think clearly matters more than technical prowess.

And finally we touch on the job market. We're heading toward AI capabilities that will exceed human professionals in specific domains. The displacement won't be overnight, but it's coming.

If you're implementing AI in your organization, this episode should make you pause and ask harder questions. The technology is powerful, but power without thoughtful application is just expensive chaos.

Mentioned:

• Phil Dursey's guide, Red Teaming AI
  
• Hard Fork podcast segment on a student's AI workflow

A stalkerware economy is thriving on TikTok, and it's generating hundreds of thousands in sales. Journalist Rosie Thomas from 404 Media joins the show this week discuss her investigation into GPS trackers being sold as relationship surveillance tools directly through TikTok Shop. This isn't some dark web operation - it's happening on one of the world's most popular social platforms.

The findings are disturbing. Content targets people with taglines like "Is she really going out with friends?" are generating hundreds of thousands in sales. Algorithms don't just show you this content - they amplify it the moment you engage.

The digital economy we all live in has normalized surveillance to the point where stalking your partner is being marketed as a reasonable relationship tool. The technology isn't new, but the accessibility and algorithmic amplification absolutely is.

This conversation touches on everything from the failure of tech companies to consider abuse cases in product design, to how parasocial relationships are replacing actual community bonds, to the legal gaps that leave victims with limited recourse.

If you work in tech, this episode should make you uncomfortable. As a citizen, it should terrify you. It's a reminder that our biggest threats often come from the normalization of our culture's worst tendencies.

Read more on 404Media: https://www.404media.co/tiktok-shop-sells-viral-gps-trackers-marketed-to-stalkers/

This week on the show: some seriously cutting-edge territory. George A talks about what he saw at the Love and Sex with Robots conference in Montreal. Then George K and George A discuss AI companions, embodied LLMs, and the wild intersection of technology and human intimacy.

This isn't just about sex robots - it's about the broader question of how AI is reshaping fundamental human experiences. 

The reality check: If you think this stuff is too niche or weird to matter, give it 5 years. This technology is going to be everywhere - in education, therapy, companionship. The question isn't whether it's coming, it's whether we'll think through the implications before it's too late.

This might be one of the most uncomfortable (and important) tech conversation we're not having as a society.

Fair warning: This episode gets real, fast. But if you work in tech, security, or just want to understand where we're heading as a species, it's worth your time.

Stay tuned to the end to hear about the "door prize" George A from the conference that is gonna make the office Secret Santa…interesting.

Mentioned this episode:

• Our Season 4 opener with Savannah Sly
• Gov Pritzker Signs Legislation Prohibiting AI Therapy in Illinois
• Parents of teenager who took his own life sue OpenAI
• You can read the full text of the lawsuit here
•  Scene from Interstellar that George K references

Sumona Banerji, founder of MindShield and PhD candidate in cyber psychology, joins us to discuss building cognitive resilience in an age of exponential technology and algorithmic manipulation.

George K and George A talk to Sumona about:

• Truth is fragmented - Everyone only sees a piece of it, creating space for better discussion
• The TAR framework - Trigger, Analysis, Response for emotional regulation with manipulative content
• Expanding the amygdala - How meditation literally grows brain regions for critical thinking
• Algorithm curation - Your feeds mirror your choices; conscious curation transforms your information diet

From documentary filmmaker to tech psychology researcher, Sumona's unconventional path offers unique insights into protecting our cognitive capacity as knowledge workers navigating an increasingly complex information landscape.

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Got an idea or topic you'd like us to cover? Drop us a line at contact@bareknucklespod.com

Former NFL player Mark LeVoir joins us this week to talk about life after pro sports, and the lessons he took transitioning to a career in tech.

George K and George A talk to Mark about:

• The transition from professional sports to tech sales and why goals beat identity every time
• His simple method for aligning business outcomes with corporate objectives in enterprise deals
• Building sales teams that can fail fast, learn quick, and operate on trust instead of aggressive tactics
• Life lessons from the NFL locker room and why hanging with Tom Brady is just like hanging with regular dudes

"I want my people to be able to fail. Fail fast. What do we learn from it? If your intent's in the right spot and you just failed, it's a coaching experience. If your intent isn't right, we're having a different conversation."

Plus, George A. gets Mark talking about hanging with Tom Brady, why Lamborghinis are useless when you're 6'7", and his top cigar picks, because why not?

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If there’s a burning topic you think we should address, let us know! Email us at contact@bareknucklespod.com

This week Savannah Sly, dominatrix and sex worker rights advocate, joins the show to talk about privacy, power, and the nuances of human intimacy as generative AI takes hold.  

George K and George A talk to Savannah about:

• The current state of privacy for vulnerable communities and the real-world operational security challenges they face
• Practical steps individuals can take to protect their digital identities when dating online
• The intersection of AI, deepfakes, and the weaponization of intimate content
• The zeitgeist and cultural headwinds for sex workers today

New season, new scope. Thank you for listening!

Season 4 is here! While George K and George A are in Las Vegas for Black Hat and DEFCON this week, here's a preview of some changes coming to the podcast.

We're grateful for every listener. Thank you for being on this journey with us!

Rinki Sethi joins the show this week! She's held just security leadership roles on just about all possible sides, and now she's also a VC investing in the next generation of founders.

George K and George A talk to Rinki about:

• Real talk and timeline on AI in SecOps
• How security teams are gonna get reorganized around AI tooling
• Why most founders fall in love with solutions instead of problems
• The brutal truth about career development in the AI era

Best quote: "I don't think AI is going to replace people. AI is going to replace people that aren't using AI - and it's already starting to happen."

Rinki breaks down why the finance team beat an engineering team during a hackathon at her portfolio company, and why that feat portends an industry wide change.

For vendors: Stop trying to impress CISOs with your tech specs. They're drowning in noise and need you to understand the actual problems their teams are facing.

For practitioners: Learn the fundamentals, then use AI to scale. The combo is gonna separate good from great.

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👊⚡️Support the show!

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

Kendrick Trotter joins the show to talk about going from Uber driver to a major account executive at a public cybersecurity company, then founding his own business that created over $70 million in annualized salaries for underrepresented professionals.

George K and George A talk to Kendrick about:

• How a Division I football scholarship and one life-changing Uber ride with an Amazon VP changed everything
• His game-changing approach to calling CISOs
• Building Us and Technology - training 13,000+ people for free and placing them at companies like Zscaler and Airtable
• The harsh reality of what happened to DEI initiatives and why diversity of thought drives 30% more revenue

The bottom line: Kendrick's story proves that with the right mindset, genuine human connection, and "unreasonable hospitality," you can break barriers and create opportunities for others.

————

👊⚡️Support the show!

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

George K and George A went completely off-script this week and recorded their first one-on-one episode in years. Fair warning: it gets heated about some industry trends that have been grinding their gears.

George K and George A get into:

• The AI hype cycle vs. actual utility as George K articulates step by step how he used an LLM to prepare for a talk - what it could and couldn't help with
• The danger for companies gutting entry-level positions while claiming "AI efficiency"
• The risks of a generation that can't handle disagreement or boredom
• The return of Gilded Age exploitation disguised as "hustle culture"

Real talk: If your company is advertising 70+ hour work weeks as a feature, you're part of the problem. We didn't survive a pandemic just to forget every lesson about work-life balance for the sake of some exec's third yacht.

If you're feeling the cognitive dissonance of working in tech right now, you're not alone.

What's your take? Are they just two old guys yelling at clouds, or are these legitimate concerns about where our industry is headed?

————

👊⚡️Support the show!

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

Tanya Janca joins the show this week, with unique perspective on building secure software and advocating for better cybersecurity policy.

George K and George A talk to Tanya about:

• Her transition from 14 years as a Canadian public servant to private sector entrepreneurship
• The core values that guide her work: performing good and moving the industry toward secure software
• Entrepreneurship since age 19: solving real problems that hurt badly enough for people to pay
• Civil advocacy for security by design policies and challenging inadequate government cybersecurity practices

Tanya's perspective on building businesses around genuine problem-solving rather than just seeking acquisition or wealth creation offers valuable insights for any founder. 

Whether you're interested in secure coding, entrepreneurship, or how to advocate for better cybersecurity policy, this episode delivers actionable insights from someone who's been in the trenches and made real impact.

Mentioned:

• The Eh List: https://ehlist.org/
• Forte Group: forte-group.org/home-our-mission
• Tanya’s petition: https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/secure-canadas-future
• Tanya’s Secure Coding Guideline: newsletter.shehackspurple.ca/c/secure-coding-guideline

Vivek Khindria, longtime CISO, joins the show and he brought the heat. We talk building security teams, quantum computing timelines, and why your board doesn't want to hear about firewall rules.

George K and George A talk to Vivek about:

• Why betting on business people and teaching them security > hiring tech nerds who can't talk to humans
• Why enterprises must start the conversation around crypto agility now with the quantum computing future ahead
• Your board wants to hear about "resilience," not your latest pen test results
• How to balance outsourcing vs maintaining in house talent

Vivek's been around the block and back, knows his stuff, and isn't afraid to call out nonsense. Plus he talks about why most security leaders are burning out and what to actually do about it.

This is the kind of conversation that makes you better at your job, not just better at using buzzwords.

This week, we're returning to the original inspiration for our Pride in Cyber campaign!

Angela Brown and Amber DiPippa join the podcast to discuss their scholarship initiative supporting LGBTQ+ individuals pursuing cybersecurity.

George K and George A talk to Ang and Amber about:

• The scholarship's origins and its goals for supporting LGBTQ+ cybersecurity students
•  The realities and financial hardships unfairly leveled at queer communities
•  Practical advice for authentic allyship and community support

🏳️‍🌈👊⚡️The Pride in Cyber collection is now available in the BKBT Merch Store. ALL PROFITS from all sales of pride merch for the entire month of June will be donated to Ang and Amber's scholarship fund. Shop today at https://bkbtpodcast.shop/collections/pride-in-cyber

Madeline and Oliver from Phish Club joined the show to talk community building for junior practitioners in cybersecurity.

George K and George A talk to Madeline and Oliver about:

The power of lateral networking - building relationships with peers who will rise together rather than just trying to impress executives

What actually gets you hired - home labs and technical write-ups beat certifications every time

Creating inclusive community - from Discord lounges to bringing non-cyber friends, because networking is networking

The real skills that matter - curiosity in interviews, asking questions, and showing initiative beyond just following documentation

Their approach is simple but powerful: consistency, authenticity, and making sure no one sits alone in the back. The result? A thriving community that's helping practitioners actually connect, learn, and advance their careers together.

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🏳️‍🌈 It's PRIDE month! ALL PROFITS from all sales of the Pride collection during the month of June will be donated to scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity.

And this year we have generous vendor sponsors who will match our donation!

Shop swag, help students. You can shop the collection here: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/

While everyone's obsessing over digital lead gen and automation, veteran marketer David Mundy argues the best companies are going back to basics - building actual relationships and cutting through the noise.

George K and George A talk to David about:

• Not hiring marketers with playbooks, and hiring hunters who understand the market is dynamic AF
• Why SDRs should work under marketing (yes, really) for that crucial feedback loop
• Why early stage marketing teams need to know how to explain your product's implementation
• How storytelling isn't optional, it's the skill that separates good marketers from great ones

Plus: Why the most technical sellers are winning, how to manage up when founders think it's still 2016, and David's exact hiring playbook for early-stage companies.

This one's packed with tactical gold for anyone in go-to-market. Worth a listen if you're a marketer trying to break through the saturation or a CISO tired of getting bombarded with irrelevant pitches.

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🏳️‍🌈 It's PRIDE month! ALL PROFITS from all sales of the Pride collection during the month of June will be donated to scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity.

And this year we have generous vendor sponsors who will match our donation!

Shop swag, help students. You can shop the collection here: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/collections/pride-in-cyber

Erik Bloch, security operations expert and longtime infosec leader, joins the show to talk about the real problems plaguing SOCs and why the industry keeps missing the mark!

George K and George A talk to Erik about:

- The massive disconnect between what vendors think SOCs do vs. reality - spoiler alert: most founders have never worked in the trenches

- Why we're still fighting the same problems from 20 years ago - false positives aren't even 10% of the actual work, so why do we keep obsessing over them?

- The real burnout formula: high responsibility + low control + endless busywork that has nothing to do with catching bad guys

- Business alignment that actually works: Stop talking about theoretical $48 bazillion losses and start tying security outcomes to actual business growth

Whether you're a vendor or an executive leader, there's gold -- and data! -- in this episode. The "AI will solve everything" narrative is misleading, hear what actually works in security operations!

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🏳️‍🌈 It's PRIDE month! ALL PROFITS from all sales of the Pride collection during the month of June will be donated to scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity. 

And this year we have generous vendor sponsors who will match our donation! 

Shop swag, help students. You can shop the collection here: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/collections/pride-in-cyber

This conversation hits different. Mohammed "Moh" Waqas, CTO Healthcare at Armis, joined us to talk about burnout, mental health, and the hidden costs of our "always-on" cybersecurity culture.

George K and George A talk to Mohammad about:

• Why perfectionism in cyber is literally making us sick
• How epilepsy taught Moh to recognize burnout triggers before they hit
• The real cost of saying "yes" to every sales deadline
• Why your team needs mandatory disconnect time (and how to make it happen)
• Leading with radical transparency during layoffs and industry chaos

This isn't just feel-good advice – it's business-critical. Burned out teams cost more, perform worse, and leave faster.

Drop a comment: What's your biggest burnout trigger in cyber? Let's normalize this conversation.

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🏳️‍🌈 Pride Month is just around the corner! We're once again running our t-shirt campaign to raise money for scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity programs.

In the month of June, all profits from any Pride gear purchased from the BKBT Swag Store will be donated.

Set your reminders for June, and check out the collection: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/

Quinnlan Varcoe, founder of Blueberry Security, joins the show for a raw conversation about building a security startup!

Quinn takes us through her wild ride from SOC analyst to founder - including how she shut down her business only to relaunch it stronger than ever. 

George K and George A talk to Quinn about:

• Finding your true product-market fit in the security services space
• The brutal reality of B2B sales cycles (hint: they're WAY longer than you think)
• How literally ONE client call changed everything while she was recovering from surgery
• Her narrative-based approach to security operations training

Plus, Quinn opens up about her experience as a trans founder in cybersecurity, navigating both professional challenges and today's political climate.

This episode is PACKED with insights for founders, security practitioners, and anyone interested in the human side of building something from scratch. 

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🏳️‍🌈 Pride Month is just around the corner! We're once again running our t-shirt campaign to raise money for scholarships for LGBTQ+ students in cybersecurity programs.

In the month of June, all profits from any Pride gear purchased from the BKBT Swag Store will be donated.

Set your reminders for June, and check out the collection: https://bkbtpodcast.shop/

Dr. Kashyap "Kash" Thimmaraju joins the show to talk about a new study on burnout, wellbeing, and flow state in security operations.

• New research using psychologically validated scales to measure burnout in cybersecurity professionals
• How "flow state" might be the key to better performance AND preventing burnout
• The impact of remote work and isolation on security teams
• Practical techniques security leaders can implement TODAY to support their teams

Protecting our human resources is just as important as protecting our digital ones.

Dr. Thimmaraju and his co-authors' research points to a significant gap in how we understand and support the mental wellbeing of security professionals. It's time to start changing that conversation.

Mentioned this episode:

• Human Performance in Cybersecurity Operations Paper: https://flowguard-institute.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Human-Performance-in-Security-Operations.pdf
• Human performance in cybersecurity survey: http://flowguard-institute.com/hpcs
• Flow Guard Institute: http://flowguard-institute.com

Recorded LIVE at RSAC 2025: Don Jeter, Chief Meme Officer at Torq returns! He breaks down how Torq built a cult brand in cybersecurity around their "SOAR is Dead" campaign.

George K and George A talk to Don about:

• Harnessing creativity in an era of algorithmic optimization: “You're not remembered for the safe ideas ever"
• Building internal excitement with your team (especially sales) before launching campaigns
• Creating something people actually want to be part of, not just another product
• His beliefs that brand leads to demand

If you're tired of AI-generated content, algorithm chasing, and the same old B2B tech marketing playbook, this episode delivers practical advice on standing out in an oversaturated market.

This episode is presented in partnership with Torq.

Check out the full video version of this interview on YouTube.

George K and George A are off to San Francisco for RSAC 2025 this week. Here are some short musings on what they think they might see...

Mentioned: 

• Chase Cunningham has built an app that lets you rank vendor demos in real time! If you'd like to join the effort, you can do so here: https://10ringvendors.glide.page

“When you look at cybersecurity…we've got to be constantly thinking about how we disrupt ourselves in order to actually solve the problem."

Casey Ellis is a hacker, a founder, and an advisor and investor. Occupying a lot of different vantage points in cyber has given him a very unique perspective on the industry.

George K and George A talk to Casey about:

• How Casey went from hacker to solution architect to entrepreneur, creating a marketplace that connects ethical hackers with companies who need them
• Why security startups focused solely on acquisition are hurting the industry (and why defenders deserve better)
• The reality check on AI in security - separating hype from actual value
• Why human creativity will always be necessary in security (automation is great, but humans build systems and humans break them)

It’s real and it’s raw. As always.

👊⚡️🏳️‍🌈 

Our Pride campaign kicks off in June, and we're looking for a brave vendor sponsors! Queer communities are facing backlash and corporations are shrinking back into the shadows. 

We’re looking for courageous vendor partners and individuals who will consider matching donations to help us multiply the show's contribution. If you’d like to remain anonymous, that’s fine, too. After all it’s about getting resources to those who need it.

If you're interested, get in touch: contact@bareknucklespod.com 

Jake Bernardes, CISO at Anecdotes, brings a uniquely adventurous spirit to this week’s show! And his ethos of “Don’t be an a**hole” is certainly one we can get behind.

George K and George A talk to Jake about:

• Jake's "inherent risk-taker" philosophy that's guided his career moves
• Why the best CISOs are "repulsed by the idea of being bored" and how that drives innovation
• The changing face of security leadership - from risk-averse consultants to today’s disruptive problem solvers
• His refreshingly honest take on how CISOs should interact with vendors: "Just don't be an a**hole"

Whether you're in the trenches, pitching security tools, or running a whole damn cyber program, Jake drops serious insights you can use.

————

👊⚡️Support the show!

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

George K and George A are out this week to keynote SecureWorld Toronto and host the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale. Catch up on interviews you may have missed with:

• Stacey Lokey-Day on collecting experiences to build your career
• Candace Williams on the keys to networking
• Allan Alford on the best ways vendors can engage with CISOs and ensure they stay in good graces
• Jessica Andree on how to build loyalty and performance through better talent acquisition
• Kate Wood on the top 3 pieces of advice for advancing your career

———

👊⚡️SUPPORT THE SHOW!

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

This week, Ads Dawson, Staff AI Security Researcher at Dreadnode, joins the show to talk all things AI Red Teaming!

George K and George A talk to Ads about:

• The reality of securing #AI model development pipelines
• Why cross-functional expertise is critical when securing AI systems
• How to approach continuous red teaming for AI applications (hint: annual pen tests won't cut it anymore)
• Practical advice for #cybersecurity pros looking to skill up in AI security

Whether you're a CISO trying to navigate securing AI implementations or an infosec professional looking to expand your skill set, this conversation is all signal.

Course mentioned: https://learn.nvidia.com/courses/course-detail?course_id=course-v1:DLI+S-DS-03+V1

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

Ever wondered why cybersecurity hiring is broken? Jessica's flipping the script with a revolutionary approach to talent acquisition and development!

George K and George A talk to Jessica about:

• How she transformed the company’s hiring by focusing on building talent rather than looking for unicorns or perfect fits
• Why asking "Why are you here?" is her #1 interview question (and what she learns from it)
• How her military background shaped her approach to servant leadership
• Their "strange renegades" philosophy that's created remarkable team loyalty

"Accessibility does not equate to aptitude. Some people just don't have access, but that doesn't mean they won't be great employees."

Every company struggling with talent acquisition or employee churn needs to check out this conversation.

Jessica's transparency about Risk360's approach to compensation, benefits, and career development is refreshingly honest.

Listen now and let us know what you think! Could this approach work in your organization?

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🇨🇦 Toronto listeners! We’ll be setting the stage on fire with the opening keynote at SecureWorld Toronto on April 8th. And…we’ll be closing out the show with our signature event, the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale!

Register for the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale here

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

This week, researcher Kate Wood from Info-Tech joins the show to talk about the future of security autonomization with AI.

George K and George A talk to Kate about:

• The reality of AI adoption in security beyond marketing hype (and where the hallucinations are still problematic)
• Modernizing vendor risk management beyond checkbox exercises
• A fascinating framework for "autonomization" vs. automation - and understanding your tolerance for AI decision-making at operational, tactical and strategic levels
• And Kate drops some incredibly real and raw career advice on authenticity, pursuing work you love, and finding mentors

Research mentioned: https://www.infotech.com/research/ss/build-an-autonomous-security-delivery-roadmap

-----------

🇨🇦 We’ll be setting the stage on fire with the opening keynote at SecureWorld Toronto on April 8th. And…we’ll be closing out the show with our signature event, the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale!

Register for the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale here

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

This week we talk to Allan Alford talking about his 25 years journey from CISO to startups to consulting and now his return back to corporate America!

George K and George A talk to Allan about:

• His wild career journey - and what motivated his most recent career decision
• His new gig at NTT Global Data Centers, and why data centers are the next hot thing in security
• The truly global scope of his new gig
• Why people and process beat technology EVERY time - even in tech companies!

Allan also drops some straight FIRE about vendor relationships - including the sobering fact that in 25 YEARS, cold outreach has matched his actual needs exactly ONCE. Vendors, there’s a lot of learn here about how to stand out before and after the contract is signed.

-——

🇨🇦 We’ll be setting the stage on fire with the opening keynote at SecureWorld Toronto on April 8th. And…we’ll be closing out the show with our signature event, the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale!

Use our exclusive discount codes to save on registration for SecureWorld Toronto:

• BKBTSWC1 $50 off - BKBT Conference Pass
• BKBTSWO1 $50 off - BKBT Open Session Pass
• BKBTSWP1 $75 off - BKBT Plus Pass

Register to watch the can't-miss Cyber Pitch Battle Royale in Toronto! Practitioners get in free.

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

This week Jeanette Belashov, of Anvilogic, joins the show to talk about smarter and more authentic cybersecurity marketing.

George K and George A talk to Jeanette about:

• Why the lead gen MQL mindset is total BS and hurts both your strategy AND your buyers
• Using selling signals instead of vanity metrics to actually help your sales team connect with the right accounts at the right time about the right use case
• Why marketers MUST get their hands dirty with the product and spend time understanding the day-to-day challenges of practitioners
• Creating hybrid attribution frameworks that actually make sense for today's complex buyer journeys

Jeanette drops some serious science about how successful cybersecurity marketers need to immerse themselves in the community - from Reddit threads to conference conversations - to truly understand what matters to security teams.

As the CISO said: "This has to be one of the most value-filled episodes I've ever been a part of... You could probably do an entire course based on the themes and ideas she brought up."

Check out the full episode wherever you listen to podcasts!

The unstoppable Tennisha Martin joins the show this week! The Executive Director of BlackGirlsHack digs into what it really takes to build diverse cybersecurity talent pipelines in today's challenging environment.

George K and George A talk to Tennisha about:

• How BGH is using AI and hands-on labs to teach real-world hacking skills
• Why traditional education often falls short on practical cybersecurity training
• The economic barriers keeping talented people out of tech careers
•  Building sustainable nonprofit programs when traditional funding gets rocky

Plus we dive into some raw talk about staying focused on the mission even when external pressures try to knock you off course.

As Tennisha puts it: "Our mission hasn't changed just because the administration has changed. We're still training people, still getting folks certified, still building that workforce."

Whether you're interested in cybersecurity education, diversity in tech, or nonprofit leadership, this episode has something for you.

———

🇨🇦 We’ll be setting the stage on fire with the opening keynote at SecureWorld Toronto on April 8th. And…we’ll be closing out the show with our signature event, the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale!

Use our exclusive discount codes to save on registration for SecureWorld Toronto:

• BKBTSWC1 $50 off - BKBT Conference Pass
• BKBTSWO1 $50 off - BKBT Open Session Pass
• BKBTSWP1 $75 off - BKBT Plus Pass

Register to attend the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale here: https://lu.ma/of952b1f

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

New episode drop! This week Chloe Burton joins us to talk about her journey from IT Help Desk to Head of Detection Engineering.

George K and George A talk to Chloe about:

• How she used a foray into Splunk to learn and launch her career
• Why "more alerts" doesn't equal better security
• Her views on consulting as a career accelerator in cyber
• How she looks for and mentors new talent

If you're tired of the "more alerts = more security" mindset or wondering how to break into cybersecurity from a non-traditional background, this episode is for you.

———

🇨🇦 We’ll be setting the stage on fire with the opening keynote at SecureWorld Toronto on April 8th. And…we’ll be closing out the show with our signature event, the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale!

Use our exclusive discount codes to save on registration for SecureWorld Toronto:

• BKBTSWC1 $50 off - BKBT Conference Pass
• BKBTSWO1 $50 off - BKBT Open Session Pass
• BKBTSWP1 $75 off - BKBT Plus Pass

Register to attend the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale here: https://lu.ma/of952b1f

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

Candace Williams, security leader, joins the show to talk about what ACTUALLY matters in networking and professional development in cybersecurity. No BS, just real talk from someone who's lived it.

George K and George A talk to Candace about:

• Why your internal barriers are often bigger than external ones
• The truth about transactional networking (spoiler: it doesn't work)
• Why chasing certs and being a “paper tiger” might not get you the job (and what will!)
• Why preparation beats perfection when opportunities arise

Candace drops some serious wisdom about building authentic relationships vs just collecting LinkedIn connections. Whether you're starting out or leading teams, this episode has something for you.

P.S. And no, she won't look at your resume if the first time you reach out is to ask for a job

———

🇨🇦 We’ll be setting the stage on fire with the opening keynote at SecureWorld Toronto on April 8th. And…we’ll be closing out the show with our signature event, the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale!

Use our exclusive discount codes to save on registration for SecureWorld Toronto:

• BKBTSWC1 $50 off - BKBT Conference Pass
• BKBTSWO1 $50 off - BKBT Open Session Pass
• BKBTSWP1 $75 off - BKBT Plus Pass

Register to attend the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale here: https://lu.ma/of952b1f

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

Kenneth Ellington returns, one year later to talk about the changes from leaving his corporate gig to work for himself.

George K and George A talk to Kenneth about:

• How he's balancing running a cybersecurity academy, staffing agency, AND active security work
• Real talk about the challenges of building business processes from scratch
• Brutally honest advice about job hunting in cyber
• Why job opportunities still exist in cyber - but you need the right mindset
• Contract work vs full-time positions

Favorite quote: "Be honest with yourself. Lying to yourself never is a good option."

Whether you're looking to break into cyber, considering the leap to entrepreneurship, or just want some straight talk about the industry - this episode delivers valuable insights from someone walking the walk.

Shout out this episode: Henry Davis, Techtual

This week we dive into GRC Engineering with Justin Pagano, Emre Ugurlu, and returning guest Terra Cooke, three of minds behind the new GRC Engineering Manifesto.

We tackle:

• Why GRC folks are engineers (yes, really!)
• Moving beyond "legacy GRC" into systems thinking
• Building GRC tools that engineers actually want to use
• The intersection of AI and compliance automation

This one gets nerdy! But if you want to understand how modern organizations can take a systems-based approach to governance while keeping engineers happy, this episode is for you.

Check out the manifesto and repo at grc.engineering and join the conversation! 🛠️

Manifesto authors

• Ayoub Fandi
• Akshay Finney
• Austin Rust
• Charles Nwatu
• Emre Ugurlu
• Justin Pagano
• Terra Cooke
• Varun Gurnaney

————

🇨🇦 We’ll be setting the stage on fire with the opening keynote at SecureWorld Toronto on April 8th. And…we’ll be closing out the show with our signature event, the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale!

Use our exclusive discount codes to save on registration for SecureWorld Toronto:

• BKBTSWC1 $50 off - BKBT Conference Pass
• BKBTSWO1 $50 off - BKBT Open Session Pass
• BKBTSWP1 $75 off - BKBT Plus Pass

Register to attend the Cyber Pitch Battle Royale here: https://lu.ma/of952b1f

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

Kristin Demoranville joins the show this week to talk securing the food supply chain as critical infrastructure, incidents’ effect on the global economy, representation in ICS/OT, and more!

George K and George A talk to Kristin about:

• Dispelling misconceptions about OT security
• The food industry as critical infrastructure
• The need for more diverse voices in OT/ICS security to drive innovation and better solutions
• How to break into OT security

Plus some raw honesty about being a woman founder in the space and building community despite the challenges.

———

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

This week, Stacey Lokey-Day joins the show to talk about her career pivot from stay-at-home mom to cybersecurity analyst!

George K & George A talk to Stacey about:

• How she leveraged a bootcamp experience into a successful career pivot
• Why she believes in "collecting experiences" early in your career, even the tough ones
• How her time in the SOC built up her resilience and confidence
• Finding your voice, and owning who you are in tech

The lessons from her story are valuable to anyone, at any stage of their career. Turn it up!

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

"Community" is getting bandied about a lot. What does it really mean, for both cybersecurity vendors and practitioners? This week's episode is a roundtable discussion recorded LIVE at Cyber Marketing Con in December 2024! The panel features Dani Woolf, Ben Siegel, Bronwen Hudson, Elliot Volkman, and BKBT's George K. 

Some key topics covered:

• Community is not something you can just spend money on.
• Successful communities are affecting change.
• You can't expect instant ROI from community building.
• Be passionate about your community's mission.
• Listen to your community; they will guide you.
• Communities are about adding value, not extracting.

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

HAPPY NEW YEAR from BKBT! to you and yours! We have big plans...

We hope you have a peaceful New Year's, and we're wishing you all the prosperity for 2025!

😳 We still can't believe we won Cybersecurity Podcast of the Year at the SANS Difference Maker Awards!

Keep the celebration going with 30% off all orders from the BKBT Swag Shop.  Discount will automatically be applied to all orders over $25, thru Dec 31st!

Shop today: https://bkbtpodcast.shop

Thanks for all the support over the years, we appreciate you!

Happy holidays from BKBT to you and yours! Enjoy the time, and may be it restful, relaxing, and free of critical open-source vulns.

😳 We still can't believe we won Cybersecurity Podcast of the Year at the SANS Difference Maker Awards!

Keep the celebration going with 30% off all orders from the BKBT Swag Shop.  Discount will automatically be applied to all orders over $25, thru Dec 31st!

Shop today: https://bkbtpodcast.shop

Thanks for all the support over the years, we appreciate you!

As 2024 comes to close, we revisit some of the most listened to episodes in Season 3 so far!

• Don Jeter, CMO at Torq talks about breaking through the noise, and how to stand out in a market full of boring B2B copycats
  
• Lauren Palmer talks about why Sales is a profession people should be proud of, and how to build teams that don't abuse trust
  
• Andrew Owlett, global cybersecurity executive, explores how to tell the story of your career and your skills
  
• Michelle Eggers, pentester, talks about how she quickly broke into the industry and found a niche that has her sharing insights on the conference circuit so quickly

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

This week we sit down with Cecil Pineda to talk about building real community in cybersecurity, vendor relationships that actually work, and how to avoid being that annoying sales person calling every Monday.

George K and George A talk to Cecil about:

🛠️ Why technical operations experience matters for CISOs

☝️ The art of "bothering someone" (yes, there is an art to it!)

💡 His advice for vendors trying to break through

✅ How his team evaluates new tech 

Plus we get into what it really takes to build authentic relationships in this industry. Spoiler: It's not about automating thousands of emails!

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!

Mainframe pentester Michelle Eggers joins us to share her incredible journey into cybersecurity, and specifically her niche in mainframe security.

George K and George A talk to Michelle about:

💪 Her hustle and flow switching careers into pentesting, including 40+ interviews and an intense training cohort

🍀 How she carved out a rare specialty in mainframe security through networking and seizing opportunities

😱"Do it scared" - her advice for speaking at conferences and pushing through imposter syndrome

💳 Why mainframe security matters (hint: it touches billions of financial transactions daily)

If you're trying to break into security, switch careers, or level up your technical skills - you need to hear Michelle's practical wisdom and refreshingly honest perspective on the journey.

————

👊⚡️BECOME A SHOW SUPPORTER

https://ko-fi.com/bareknucklesbrasstacks

For as little as $1 a month, you can support the show and get exclusive member benefits, or send a one-time gift!

Your contribution covers our hosting fees, helps us make cool events and swag, and it lets us know that what we're doing is of value to you.

We appreciate you!