Welcome to Bar Student to Barrister, the podcast on your journey into pupillage, and beyond into the early years of practice at the Bar.
If you are considering the Bar as a future profession, if you are currently going through training for the Bar or pupillage, or perhaps you simply want to know more about what the Bar is all about, then this podcast - out every week on a Friday - is for you.
With Chris Kessling, barrister and Vice Dean of the ICCA; Jody Klaire, ICCA Bar Course graduate, called to the Bar in 2025, and just starting pupillage; and a whole host of wonderful guests.
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Welcome to from Bar Student to Barrister, the podcast on your journey into pupillage and beyond into the early years of practice at the Bar.
In this podcast you will be hearing from many people who can tell you exactly what it feels like and looks like to become a barrister, to go through your training, including what is usually one year of pupillage, and then enter those early years of professional practice.
The barristers’ profession, as well as training to become a barrister, can seem just a tad confusing at times, but as we move through the many episodes that follow, you will get to hear from many Bar students, from pupils and from practising barristers who will demystify the whole show. And if you have questions, just get in touch with us and we’d be delighted to provide answers.
With Chris Kessling, barrister and Vice Dean of the Inns of Court College of Advocacy (ICCA), and Jody Klaire, ICCA Bar Course graduate, called to the Bar in 2025, and just starting pupillage! And a whole host of wonderful guests.
Published weekly on Fridays, starting Friday 17 October 2025.
Episode 1 – Training for the Bar – Jody’s journey to Criminal Pupillage
Season 1 · Episode 2
Thursday, October 16, 2025 • Duration 56:58
Welcome to Episode 1 of Bar Student to Barrister.
In our first episode we meet Jody Klaire, just starting pupillage in chambers specialising in criminal law, and we’ll hear more about her pupillage experience in coming episodes.
How do you become a barrister?
“In 2020 I went blind and deaf and I thought, ‘oh why not,I'll just become a barrister.’”
Jody tells us all about her unique path to the Bar, from themusic industry and the police force, and as a writer, teacher and EDI trainer, towards criminal practice. She explains how her legal career was shaped whilst also confronting her own disabilities, as well as how many people inspired and helped her along the way.
In this podcast we want to demystify the Bar and trainingfor the Bar, so we start at the beginning and explore Bar training.
Jody also lets us know what attracted her from an interestin the law of trusts to a life of crime (as a field of specialist practice of course) and we find out what module Jody took at university, “just for fun!”
In this episode, Jody raises some serious issues concerningtraining for the Bar with a disability. These matters have not been pushed to one side and will receive the full attention they deserve in the future. In fact, much of what you have heard in outline will be explored in far more detail in later episodes.
Thank you for joining us this week. Please follow/subscribeon your podcast platform for future episodes.
Episode 2 - Cracking the Code - Gaurav’s journey to the Specialist Tax Bar
Season 1 · Episode 3
Thursday, October 23, 2025 • Duration 58:09
Welcome to Episode 2 of Bar Student to Barrister. In this week’s episode we meet Gaurav Sachanandani, now in his early years of practice at Burnell Chambers, situated on Middle Temple Lane in London.
From starting his law degree at the age of 17, we follow Gaurav through Bar training, pupillage and into his early years as a specialist tax barrister, and even why studying does not always stop when you embark on full-time professional practice.
And what else do we discover on the way?
First, Gaurav dreamed of becoming an astronomer before even thinking about the law.
And what excited his interest in becoming a lawyer? For that you’ll have to listen, but it’s something we suspect you’ll hear more than a few times in this podcast series, at least from those who are prepared to admit it.
The complexity and intellectual challenge of tax law, and the ambition to build his practice as a respected expert, is perhaps at the heart of what drives Gaurav, but you will also discover that he is positive, enthusiastic, committed, determined, and no stranger to hard work.
And why is ‘cracking the code’ used in the title of this episode? Again, you can find out before too long, but it’s something that Gaurav has been doing in multiple ways as he has pursued his ambition to become a barrister.
In this episode you will also hear how Gaurav approached applying for pupillage to specialist tax and chancery chambers, what written exercises he was asked to carry out, and what happened during the interview process.
There is also a cautionary tale for all prospective barristers – what might happen at the end of a pupillage interview when you are asked if you have any questions? Beware the danger zone! But as we find out, sometimes things happen for a reason.
Gaurav also tells us what happens when you arrive on Day 1 of pupillage in a tax chambers, as well as how to cope when technical failure greets you in your pupillage professional ethics exam.
And finally, even though he is a practising barrister, does Gaurav own a wig and gown? Find out in this episode.
Episode 3 - Failing Forwards - Building Resilience for a Career at the Bar of England & Wales
Season 1 · Episode 4
Friday, October 31, 2025 • Duration 01:07:17
Welcome to Episode 3 of Bar Student to Barrister. In this week’s episode we have something special, a presentation given to ICCA Bar Course students on 13 October 2025, entitled ‘Failing Forwards - Building Resilience for a Career at the Bar of England & Wales’
In this episode you will hear from three professionals with fascinating insights into what resilience really means on your journey to the Bar.
Tony Charles is the Director of Education at Gray’s Inn, a senior leader with a broad range of experience across all aspects ofeducation and training.
Saara Idelbi is a barrister at 39 Essex Chambers, a legal professional, strategic advisor, and effective advocate recognised by Legal 500 as a ‘Leading Junior’ in the areas of Administrative Law and Human Rights, Court ofProtection and Community Care, and Inquests and Inquiries.
John-Paul Fitzgibbon is a Criminal and Public International LawBarrister, Naval Officer and Commander.
Three quotes from Tony Charles perhaps best set the scene for what you are about to hear::
“Failure and resilience are inextricably linked and frequentlymisunderstood.”
“Failure, success, learning and resilience are all part of the sameequation and that’s really what we are going to focus on today.”
“The setbacks are not interruptions to success, they are part of its fabric.”
As Tony also says, ‘“Our message today is a positive one about the journey you are on and it’s a positive one about the journey ahead.”
We hope you enjoy this episode, and a huge thank you to Tony, Saara and John Paul for giving their time to provide such invaluable insights.
Please follow/subscribe and we look forward to seeing you again next Friday, with yet more helpful information and personal accounts to help and guide you on your journey to the Bar.
INFORMATION
Tony Charles - LinkedIn
Episode 4 - Meet Sam – from Ronnie Scott’s to the Intellectual Property Bar
Season 1 · Episode 5
Friday, November 7, 2025 • Duration 59:12
In this episode of Bar Student to Barrister we hear from Sam Grimley, ICCA Bar Course graduate, called to the Bar by Gray’s Inn in 2025 and now a tenant at One Essex Court, a pre-eminent commercial set of barristers’ chambers in London, and The Lawyer Chambers of the Year 2025.
Sam had a very successful career in the music industry as a guitarist and keyboard player. In fact, he knew from the age of 6 that music was for him. He was a session musician at Ronnie Scott’s and worked with many artists including TomJones, Ed Sheeran and Jessie J.
As so often happens in life, he ultimately followed adifferent path which took him to the Bar, including taking a GDL, a BCL at the University of Oxford, completing the ICCA Bar Course and then pupillage, followed by tenancy, at One Essex Court.
Sam is nowa barrister specialising in commercial, competition and intellectual property litigation, with a particular interest in media and entertainment disputes.
“… I’ve come from a completely different world. I mean aboutfive years ago I had never even heard of this world. So to be right in the beating heart of it now feels very strange, but I’m also utterly delighted.”
“… it’s doing a good job at whatever you're given and being personable and a good member of a team that really helps anyone in any industry.”
“ … get as much tailored advice as you can on your own performance, on your own strengths and weaknesses and take that on board, and try and improve off the back of it.”
“I'd say the headline thing that I had to learn was the importance of clarity and actually simplicity.”
“There is something extra that you get from an intense training process that is actually the product of the intensity. And the thing you get is confidence.”
And as Sam says, “Go for the run!” Listen on for exactlywhat this means.
This is Sam’s story to the Intellectual Property Bar.
Please follow/subscribe and we look forward to seeing youagain next Friday, with yet more helpful information and personal accounts to help and guide you on your journey to the Bar.
Episode 6 – Meet Karolina – Housing, Employment, Business & Property, and more!
Season 1 · Episode 7
Friday, November 21, 2025 • Duration 47:22
In this episode, meet Karolina Zielinska, ICCA BarCourse graduate and Called to the Bar by the Middle Temple in 2021, and a tenant at 42BR Chambers, a Legal 500 leading chambers.
Inspired to join the Bar at an early age by an InternationalLaw Barrister, Karolina set out on her journey with a clear goal in mind.
Karolina has developed a broad practice across chambers’areas of civil expertise, including Housing Law, Employment Law, Business & Property Law, Personal Injury and Alternative Dispute Resolution - Karolina is an accredited Civil and Commercial mediator and accepts instructions to mediatea variety of civil and commercial disputes.
Karolina is also currently an Advocate panel member and hasa particular passion for pro bono work, having previously volunteered at the Free Representation Unit, Commons and Amicus UK, amongst other charities.
“It’s important to really be rigorous in evaluating your ownCV at each stage of the process, so that if there are issues, that can be what you focus on before being able to put your best foot forward in an application.”
“Everybody’s got different skills and you only really findout to some degree in practice what those are.”
“I love the areas of practice I do, and I think when youenjoy your work and you’re good at it, then often that’s reflected back in the repeat instructions you get, and so over time that’s how my practice has carved itself out.”
“If you told me, starting university or ending university,that I was going to end up doing mostly landlord & tenant or property law, I would’ve been so shocked … which is why it’s so important to get some idea of what it’s like to do things in practice before you discount them completely.”
Episode 5 – Meet Anu – From Mock Trial Competition to the Family Bar
Season 1 · Episode 6
Friday, November 14, 2025 • Duration 58:41
In this episode, meet Anu Lal, called to the Bar by the Middle Temple in 2023 and a tenant at Fourteen Chambers, a leading London-based family law set.
From taking part in a mock trial competition at school, Anu shares her inspiring journey to becoming a barrister, focusing on her experiences in family law, the emotional challenges of the profession, and the importance of preparation, research and resilience.
Offering valuable advice for aspiring barristers. Anu emphasises the significance of understanding the realities of a legal career and the need for self-care amidst the challenges of practice.
“I always knew I wanted to be a barrister since I was doingmy GCSEs … My school took part in the National Bar Mock Trial Competition … a small group of us were mentored by a criminal barrister … and readied us for this competition, and that was it.”
“I really fell in love with the idea of representing people,of speaking for ordinary folk and people from all walks of life …”
“There is no getting round being properly prepared... There’s no cutting corners to that hard work and that graft that you’ve got to put in.”
“My personal calendar has got everything, it’s got my workand all sorts of things. And I colour-code things... And I look at that calendar and I think, ‘Is there enough of a rainbow there?’ And that’s a great first catch for me to see if I’m having as well-rounded a life as I could be.”
"Life is tough and fun is very important."
Hosted by Chris Kessling, barrister and Vice Dean of the Inns of Court College of Advocacy (ICCA).
Episode 8 – Meet Christa – Middle Temple Director of Education
Season 1 · Episode 9
Friday, December 5, 2025 • Duration 51:06
Meet Christa Richmond, Director of Education at the Honourable Society of the Middle Temple.
Christa is responsible for the Inn’s Education Department, which looks after the ‘cradle to grave’ provision of education, training, and general advice for members and prospective members of the Inn.
Find out in this episode exactly what an Inn of Court is andhow it can help you on your journey to the Bar.
When and how can you join an Inn and what are therequirements?
When and how can you apply for a scholarship?
What exactly are Qualifying Sessions?
What are the requirements of Call to the Bar and whathappens during this ceremony?
And discover the wealth of additional assistance your Inncan bring you both before and after you are called to the Bar.
Please follow/subscribe and we look forward to seeing youagain next Friday, with yet more helpful information and personal accounts to help and guide you on your journey to the Bar.
Episode 7 – Meet Donna O’Leary – AI and the Legal Profession
Season 1 · Episode 8
Friday, November 28, 2025 • Duration 52:59
In this episode, we meet Donna O’Leary, AI Consultant at DOL Consultancy, a Course Designer and Lecturer at the Law Society of Ireland, and an Irish and UK-qualified solicitor.
AI is something which will have a significant impact on allof us, which is why we were so pleased that Donna recently gave a lecture to ICCA Bar Course students, recorded at the Inner Temple, and entitled ‘AI and the Legal Profession’.
What does AI literacy actually mean?
Why have hallucinations become a big problem for the legalprofession?
How do you use AI in the right way?
You will hear much of the lecture in this episode, in whichDonna explains the AI legal framework; AI terminology uses and limitations; how AI can assist your daily work, and your professional obligations when using it.
Introduced by Lynda Gibbs KC (Hon), Dean of the ICCA, we hope you enjoy this episode.
Welcome to Bar Student to Barrister, the podcast on yourjourney into pupillage, and beyond into the early years of practice at the Bar, with Chris Kessling, Jody Klaireand our wonderful guest Bibi Badejo.
Bibi was called to the Bar in 2005 and practises from 4PB specialising in family law. She is a Bencher at Inner Temple, an accredited advocacy trainer and the Criminal Course Director of the 2025 Keble Dutton Course. She is the founder of The Advocacy Coach, and host of The Advocacy Podcast providing practical advice for experienced trial lawyers.
In this episode, Bibi shares her journey to becoming abarrister and her insights into the world of advocacy. She discusses the importance of advocacy training, the difference between coaching and training, and how to adapt techniques for different levels of experience. Bibi emphasises the role of self-awareness in advocacy and the impact of her advocacy podcast, where she explores various themes and techniques with expert guests. She also provides practical advice for those starting their advocacy journey, highlighting the importance of preparation and finding one's own voice.
“If everyone could just realise that … whatever accent thatyou’ve got or background that you come from, you just need to be the best you, that your only competition is yourself and let’s develop that.”
Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoy this episode.
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Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage inrelation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policy on Independence between the Inns of Court andthe ICCA.
This is Gaurav’s journey to the specialist tax Bar. We hope you enjoy this episode. Please follow/subscribe on your podcast platform for future episodes.
Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage inrelation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policy on Independence between the Inns of Court and the ICCA.
Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage in relation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policy on Independence between the Inns of Court and the ICCA.
Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage inrelation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policyon Independence between the Inns of Court and the ICCA.
Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage inrelation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policy on Independence between the Inns of Court andthe ICCA.
Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage inrelation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policy on Independence between the Inns of Court andthe ICCA.
Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage inrelation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policy on Independence between the Inns of Court and the ICCA.
Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage inrelation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policy on Independence between the Inns of Court andthe ICCA.
Registration on the ICCA Bar Course confers no advantage inrelation to Inns’ scholarships or awards, Inns’ membership, Qualifying Sessions or Call to the Bar. For more information see the Policy on Independence between the Inns of Court and the ICCA.
