Explore every episode of the podcast AuthentiCity FM | Real Stories. Bold Ideas. Better Communities.

Bayside, Wisconsin is a village of about 4,400 people on the shore of Lake Michigan. Andy Pederson has managed it for more than twenty years, and later this month he becomes president of ICMA. We sat down with him before the annual conference in Long Beach to talk about what a small place teaches about leading at a much larger scale.

Much of the conversation lives where jurisdictional lines start to blur. Andy walks through the partnerships Bayside shares with its North Shore neighbors, from a consolidated dispatch center to a shared fire department and an IT team that now serves several communities. Each one had to improve the service, hold or lower the cost, and prove it could last. Trust sits underneath all of it, built slowly and kept with care.

We also talk about staying. Long tenure is rare in this profession, and Andy describes what fit feels like when the community, the staff, and the board keep asking more of you. He also shares why he keeps raising his hand to serve, and how board service changed the way he sees his own elected officials.

For anyone heading to a first national conference, there is a generous stretch of practical advice. Andy's counsel to his own assistant manager is to keep it small, say hi, and take the one open seat at the lunch table. We add a few favorite openers of our own.

Andy offers an early look at the theme he will carry into his year as president, built around the word we. Then he turns the questions on us, asking what each of us believes now that we would have argued with a decade ago. The answers move through the weight of the chair, the cost of saying yes to everything, and the boundaries that protect public servants.

There is plenty of Midwestern fun along the way, including Brewers legends, a Friday fish fry confession, and a long-promised trip to a cheese castle.

00:00 Welcome and a stop in Bayside

02:16 From law school to the village hall

05:24 Why a small community

11:31 Twenty-two years in one place

13:37 Why give back to the profession

17:30 Hallway conversations and an open invitation

19:39 Icebreakers for first-timers

28:15 What the ICMA president does

31:19 Reconnecting the membership

33:58 Showing up in every state

38:36 Wisconsin and Illinois, together

47:04 Up north, fish fry, and the cheese castle

53:06 Andy asks the hosts

1:00:54 Making local government cool

1:03:27 Looking two and three years ahead

1:08:35 Sit up front

1:10:16 Andy's final word

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Ron Holifield has spent more than forty years in local government. He started in the city manager's office, then moved into the chair and went on to build the companies and networks that serve the profession, including SGR and Civic Marketplace. He no longer does city management, but he still calls himself a city manager. In this conversation, we talk about what that identity asks of people, and why the profession needs to remember where it came from.

Ron traces his path from an internship in Lubbock to small-town Texas to Garland, where he wore a bulletproof vest for a year and was eventually fired. That experience taught him how isolating a forced exit can be, and how rarely the profession shows up for its own in those moments. It also gave him the belief he has carried ever since. It's not about me, it's not about now.

From there the conversation widens. We talk about servant leadership as a working philosophy, the leadership pipeline the profession hollowed out after 2008, and why the best way to keep emerging leaders may be to prepare them to leave. Ron makes the case that the defining skill of a manager is the ability to engage, inspire, and lead people. We also explore why innovation needs room to fail, how councils elected by district can learn to serve as one body, and what it would take to equip elected officials for greatness.

At the center of it all is a question the profession has been slow to answer. Who are today's Cookinghams? City management began as a reform movement, built by people who believed government could be truer, cleaner, and finer. Ron believes we have stopped telling those stories. He argues that the sewer plant operator keeping a city alive, and the council that protected public harbor access centuries ago, deserve the same telling.

This is a conversation about camaraderie, courage, and the long view of public service.

00:00 Welcome Ron Holifield

01:09 From Lubbock to Sundown

03:03 Leaving the Chair, Keeping the Lens

09:01 Servant Leadership Out Loud

17:20 The Road to SGR

20:40 The Pipeline We Lost

32:30 Who Are Today's Cookinghams?

41:07 Connecting Beyond Communicating

47:31 Innovation and the Freedom to Fail

53:46 Equipping Elected Officials for Greatness

1:03:08 Ron Turns the Questions Around

1:17:53 The Last Word 

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We are back. The return came wrapped in a run of eighties movie references, because of course it did, and underneath the fun was something real. After a few weeks of stepping away to enjoy the end of summer, we sat back down to do the thing leaders rarely allow themselves to do, which is stop long enough to notice what the pause was teaching us. This episode is part homecoming and part preview, a conversation about rituals, return, and the quiet renewal that comes from slowing down.

We start with what the last five weeks actually held. A shadow from the past that resurfaced without warning. A week among 1,500 strangers at a conference far outside local government, where being a complete beginner turned out to be its own kind of gift. Two and a half days of full immersion with the newest members of the ICMA board, and the surprising speed with which shared purpose turns strangers into friends. Different experiences, one throughline about belonging and the value of seeing familiar work through unfamiliar eyes.

From there we circle back to the ideas that stayed with us from our end of summer episodes. History rhymes. What feels like unprecedented instability has arrived before in different clothes, and the profession has always found its footing. Judgment, we keep returning to, is a form of civic infrastructure worth protecting.

Then we turn toward what is coming. The ICMA conference in Long Beach and how to make a room of thousands feel human again. The questions we cannot keep deferring about how communities will pay for what they have promised. And a line one of us wrote while working through it all, that nostalgia is not a business plan.

This is a return episode and a road map for the season ahead, made for anyone who has felt the pull to slow down and wondered what waits on the other side of the pause.

CHAPTERS

00:00  Opening

03:13  Why Leaders Rarely Let Themselves Stop

12:05  The Episode That Stuck

15:52  Sometimes We're Our Own Worst Enemy

21:35  From Telling Stories to Building a Living Lab

24:41  Why Conferences Still Feel Like School

33:00  Navigating a 6,500-Person Conference

36:58  Mike's Masterclass in Making Friends

37:40  Change Agents and the Meaty-Topic Challenge

39:40  The Future of How We Pay for Everything

40:56  Reform, Reckoning, and Doing Less

43:37  We Built It Long Ago and Never Rebuilt It

46:03  Nostalgia Is Not a Business Plan

48:12  Not a Hobby Anymore

HOSTS

Phil Kiraly, Village Manager, Glencoe, Illinois

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philkiraly/

Mike Sable, City Manager, Maplewood, Minnesota

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-sable-b7994a14/

Corri Spiegel, President & CEO, Arete Strategic

Website: www.aretestrategic.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corrispiegel/

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Follow AuthentiCity FM for more conversations with the people doing the work of local government: https://www.linkedin.com/company/authenticityfm

Coherence was the note the summer kept building toward, the thread that holds when everything else is pulling apart. This is the conversation about what that thread is actually for.

We close the season with Bob O'Neill, former executive director of ICMA and one of the most respected thinkers this profession has produced, for an hour that keeps returning to a single idea, that the power that matters most in local government is the power to convene.

Bob makes the case that local government is the last fully functioning level of government we have, which means the work of rebuilding civic life is going to bubble up from communities rather than arrive from anywhere else. That puts the manager in an unfamiliar seat. Writing a check used to solve most problems, and it rarely does anymore. What the moment asks for instead is someone who can bring a room together, hold a hard conversation inside a set of shared values, and keep it grounded when the forces nobody controls start to pull.

Along the way we get into the traits that carry a leader through disruptive change, from anchoring an organization around mission and values to becoming what Bob calls the chief meaning officer, the person who keeps reminding everyone why the work matters at all. We talk about working across the lines on the map, the boundaries drawn long ago for taxation that no longer match how communities actually live. We talk about reverse mentorship and the handoff already underway, because the next generation is watching how we carry the work far more closely than they are reading any job description.

There is a night at the White House and a conga line, because Bob tells a story as well as anyone in the business. And underneath all of it runs a steady, hard-won optimism, the belief that this profession has met moments like this before and found its way back toward the middle.

Chapters

00:00 Closing the summer and what coherence is for

01:40 Welcoming Bob O'Neill

07:35 The last fully functioning level of government

09:19 When facts get treated as partisan

18:03 We have been through disruptive change before

20:38 The chief meaning officer

27:22 The social network that keeps you steady

35:50 The biggest power is the power to convene

41:15 The four traits that matter most

45:30 Putting meaning back into the work

47:59 Three reasons for optimism

53:10 Reverse mentorship and blending the generations

56:24 A night at the White House

1:03:14 ICMA, and why the network is the whole point

1:10:18 What better looks like for the profession

1:21:31 Welcoming people in and generational work

1:29:44 Closing thoughts

GUEST

Bob O’Neill

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-o-neill-5206a010/

HOSTS

Phil Kiraly, Village Manager, Glencoe, Illinois

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philkiraly/

Mike Sable, City Manager, Maplewood, Minnesota

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-sable-b7994a14/

Corri Spiegel, President & CEO, Arete Strategic

Website: www.aretestrategic.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corrispiegel/

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Follow AuthentiCity FM for more conversations with the people doing the work of local government: https://www.linkedin.com/company/authenticityfm

Some conversations wander. This one converges. After a summer spent working through truth and trust and the discipline of holding more than one version of what's real, we follow those threads to where they lead, which is coherence, and the clarity and curiosity that keep it alive.

Coherence is the thread that holds when the forces you do not control try to pull everything apart. Clarity is what it brings, the center of gravity that lets you keep moving on ground that will not sit still. Curiosity is what keeps both sharp, because the moment we decide we have all the answers is the moment we stop asking the questions.

None of this stays abstract for long. It lives in the hard conversation a supervisor keeps postponing, in respect offered freely and the harder truth that respect is not infinite, in what the 140-character world has quietly trained out of us. And it lives in the small acts of presence that cut through the noise. Ten days without devices. A cooler of ice cream carried through a public works garage after the storm. The conversations that only arrive when you finally slow down and sit with someone.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

06:16 The road into coherence, and where Phil planted the flag

11:11 Coherence as the thread, and a community becoming capital C Community

13:39 Clarity, the pogo ball, and the center of gravity

18:23 Living it, or seeing it only in hindsight

21:39 Curiosity as the skill you sharpen

31:28 Curiosity, humility, and the joy that keeps you going

34:39 Getting selective about the noise

38:51 Good faith, bad faith, and the lost guideposts

41:16 Respect given, and whether it's infinite

49:10 Analog by choice, and ten days without devices

59:15 The recipient of coherence, and a look ahead

HOSTS

Phil Kiraly, Village Manager, Glencoe, Illinois

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philkiraly/

Mike Sable, City Manager, Maplewood, Minnesota

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-sable-b7994a14/

Corri Spiegel, President & CEO, Arete Strategic

Website: www.aretestrategic.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corrispiegel/

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Follow AuthentiCity FM for more conversations with the people doing the work of local government: https://www.linkedin.com/company/authenticityfm

Some leaders spend an entire career learning to stay out of the way. This conversation is with one who chose the opposite. Booker Hodges, police chief in Bloomington, joins us for an hour that circles back again and again to the thing holding all of it together, which is trust, and how little of the job works without it.

We start where he started, with the mentors who shaped him and a coffee-stained Dartmouth degree that taught him something about wearing accomplishment lightly. From there we get into the values underneath the department. He built the whole thing on a single word, respect, and he means it as something every person is owed rather than something they have to win. It shows up in how his officers talk to the community, in who makes it through hiring, and in why he interviews everyone who meets the bar instead of trusting a test to sort them.

The middle of the conversation turns to the pressures reshaping the work. We talk about hiring for character and training for competence, about building an organization around the generation that will soon be most of it, and about why a century-old civil service model keeps producing good test takers instead of good officers. We get into the technology arriving faster than the guardrails, the privacy we surrender with a single unread click, and the harder question of who is actually overseeing any of it.

Near the end, he names the threat he thinks too few people are willing to discuss out loud, and what political violence does to the quality of the people willing to serve. And he brings it home to the one relationship a city cannot afford to get wrong. Trust between a manager and a chief is the whole job, and everything good a community gets from its government tends to grow from there.

00:00 Introduction

02:19 The profession chose me

04:12 Mentors and the coffee-stained Dartmouth degree

07:49 Bringing a new generation into the work

11:28 Beards, tattoos, and a changed profession

13:27 The one value that runs the department

16:38 Why young people choose the badge

18:41 Building the organization around the next generation

22:43 Technology, privacy, and who oversees it

26:15 Surveillance and the data we give away

31:15 Proactive or reactive, and why staffing decides it

35:16 Hiring for character, training for competence

38:50 Why he doesn't trust civil service

42:46 Life outside the badge and being hood famous

44:56 Telling the story before Hollywood does

55:36 Clear expectations and backing your people

57:34 The threat nobody's naming, political violence

1:02:00 The question Booker has for city managers

1:12:21 The one relationship a city can't get wrong

1:14:05 Trust is the whole job

GUEST

Booker Hodgers, Police Chief, Bloomington, Minnesota

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BPD_MN

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BloomingtonPD.MN

HOSTS

Phil Kiraly, Village Manager, Glencoe, Illinois

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philkiraly/

Mike Sable, City Manager, Maplewood, Minnesota

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-sable-b7994a14/

Corri Spiegel, President & CEO, Arete Strategic

Website: www.aretestrategic.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corrispiegel/

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Follow AuthentiCity FM for more conversations with the people doing the work of local government: https://www.linkedin.com/company/authenticityfm

This week we welcome Brent Messer, who spent eight years as chief information officer for the city of Chattanooga before moving to Info-Tech Research Group, and we welcome back Jerry Driessen, our first returning guest, whose career runs through some of the largest technology operations in local government. Together we spend an hour asking what the role of technology in a community actually is now that AI has arrived, and what it asks of the people who lead.

Much of the conversation circles the person in the room whose job everyone assumes they understand. The old picture of the technologist keeping the lights on and answering the call when the printer breaks has very little to do with what the work has become. We talk about the vernacular that separates a partner from a vendor, about the seat where strategy actually gets decided, and about why the first call regarding the future so rarely reaches the person who will have to make that future work.

From there we get into failure, and the strange comfort of a system that performs poorly without ever quite breaking. We look at why the public sector learned to move slowly, what shifts when a community starts thinking more like a startup, and where the partnerships hiding in plain sight actually live. There is a running argument about whether to buy technology or build it, and a metaphor about a tiger that nobody in the room can shake.

Underneath all of it sits a question about trust and whether it was ever as solid as we remember. We work through public safety as a living laboratory, from the calls we answer to the systems we have never thought to question, and we sit with how expansive the change ahead might be. What it asks of us is a willingness to let go of how things have always been done, at a moment that may not come around again.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introductions

02:15 Brent's thirty years in and around public sector tech

07:10 What to look for in the next technology leader

09:50 The printer call, the first call, and partners not clients

13:22 Buy before build becomes build before buy

16:18 Risk aversion and the case for failure

22:22 The vanilla ERP problem

25:20 What keeps a CIO up at night, and advice for small communities

31:01 Staying ahead, and being sold a bill of goods

36:36 Thinking like a startup and the fake structures we built

41:47 Data governance without the fear

47:47 Public safety as a living lab

57:00 Skepticism, broken trust, and why trust keeps cycling

1:01:09 When transparency gets weaponized

1:03:54 Collisions and who's doing something worth watching

1:09:06 Talking to the people who hold the purse

1:13:02 Storytelling and leaping before you're left behind

1:18:50 The last word and the systems worth keeping

GUESTS

Brent Messer, Info-Tech Research Group

Website: https://brentmesser.com/

Website: https://www.infotech.com/profiles/brent-messer

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dbmesser/

Book: Value-Driven: The CIOs Handbook for Digital Transformation and Innovation in the Public Sector (https://a.co/d/0cZpLsgI)

Jerry Driessen, Celonis

Website: https://www.celonis.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerry-driessen-6997222/

HOSTS

Phil Kiraly, Village Manager, Glencoe, Illinois

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philkiraly/

Mike Sable, City Manager, Maplewood, Minnesota

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-sable-b7994a14/

Corri Spiegel, President & CEO, Arete Strategic

Website: www.aretestrategic.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corrispiegel/

Book: ordinary: Harnessing the Power of Or in Everyday Moments (https://a.co/d/0cGQsoZV)

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Follow AuthentiCity FM for more conversations with the people doing the work of local government: https://www.linkedin.com/company/authenticityfm

Trust keeps moving. Across the last several generations, it lived first with the people we knew, then with the institutions we built, and now it is settling somewhere new again. In this episode, the three of us are back around the table together to follow that movement and ask what it means for the people who serve communities every day.

We start with the numbers. The institutions Americans once leaned on now sit near the bottom of the confidence rankings, and local government has watched its own standing slide from the high marks it held for decades. That is where the conversation begins. We look at how the information environment fractured from a handful of trusted voices into millions, how credentials and ratings and the letters behind a name carry less weight than they once did, and why transparency so often creates visibility when what we were hoping for was trust.

From there we get practical. We work through the technology that now sits between local government and the public, from license plate readers to facial recognition to the apps parents use to track their teenagers. Each one raises the same quiet question about the line between serving people and watching them. We talk about the pull to use data to prove a point rather than to do the work better, and what it costs a community when we try to build trust the way we did in 1996 and expect it to land in 2026.

We close on the part that holds through all of it. Trust has become personal, earned in the ordinary work of showing up and following through. The question we leave with you is a working one. What are we actually doing to help people trust us, and what would it take to become the institution our neighbors count on when they need it most?

00:00 — Introduction: What Trust Means Today

03:22 — The State of Institutional Trust

08:12 — Media, Information, and Credibility

14:50 — From Institutions to Networks

18:06 — AI, Public Information, and Old Models

24:44 — Credentials and the Cost of Trust

42:16 — Trust, Transparency, and Progress

48:30 — Public Safety Technology and Surveillance

58:08 — Life 360, Leadership, and Employee Trust

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We are calling this one our midlife crisis episode, and not just because we hit episode forty. Phil is off recharging with his family, so it is just the two of us wrestling with something we have circled for a long time, the role that time itself plays in how we lead. We start with a simple distinction that changes how you see everything else, the difference between an event and a pattern. A pothole, a council comment, an inbox, these are events, and most of them do not deserve the urgency we give them. The harder work lives further out, in the structural horizon of one to seven years, and further still, in the civilizational shifts most organizations never think to name. We use a growing hospital, a fleet of self driving cars, and a piece of rope stretched across a road to ask whether our tools for seeing the future are still built for the world we are actually living in. We talk about the quiet risk of leading competently in the wrong direction, what our interns need from us that is different from what we needed twenty years ago, and why the institutions we trust most are sometimes the last to notice they have become the dinosaur. We get into workforce loyalty, the strategic plan nobody wants to own, the idea of the manager as chief meaning officer, and a line from Corri's writing that captures the whole thing, the noise does not disappear, but you stop being governed by it. By the end we land somewhere honest about what this summer's work on discernment is really trying to build, the capacity to notice what is coming before it becomes an event we are forced to react to. Phil, we missed you. Come back soon.

00:00 Midlife Crisis and Leadership Reflection

03:02 Understanding Temporal Literacy

05:35 Events vs. Patterns in Leadership

08:39 Navigating Technology and Time Horizons

11:42 The Impact of Institutional Growth

14:32 Curiosity and Technological Adaptation

17:17 The Role of GIS in Local Government

20:12 Innovating with AI in Local Government

23:06 The Future of Workforce Education

26:04 Leading in a Technological Revolution

36:31 Navigating Uncertainty in Community Action

37:47 Workforce Evolution and Future Skills

43:07 The Role of Technology in Government

47:50 Rethinking Governance and Strategic Planning

55:20 Engaging the Next Generation of Leaders

01:04:28 Embracing Change and Future Perspectives

There is something that happens when the familiar becomes invisible. You stop seeing it clearly, stop questioning it, stop asking whether it is actually working. For local government practitioners, that invisibility is one of the quieter threats to good judgment, and it sits at the heart of this episode.

The hosts use an unlikely lens to open the conversation: World Cup tourists posting unfiltered reactions to American life. Europeans genuinely delighted by Costco, the cereal aisle, the scale of everything. Watching outsiders encounter the ordinary with wonder is funny and also instructive. Curiosity requires a kind of distance from familiarity. And in the work of city management, that distance is hard to maintain when urgency keeps pulling you back to the immediate.

Urgency is the episode's central antagonist. Not crisis, but urgency. The chronic pressure to respond fast, decide fast, move fast, in an environment where speed became the shorthand for competence. The hosts examine what gets lost when urgency displaces deliberation, how it distorts the relationship between facts and values, and why the skill of sitting with tension rather than resolving it too quickly may be one of the most underdeveloped capacities in the profession.

The long view is where the episode lands. A storm in Springfield, Illinois brought down the last surviving witness tree from Abraham Lincoln's property, a living thing that had stood since before 1865. It becomes an unexpected frame for the question underneath everything else in this episode: what does it mean to make decisions on behalf of people who are not yet born, in communities that will still be there long after you have moved on? With the 250th anniversary of the American founding approaching, the hosts sit with the weight of that question without pretending to resolve it.

Discernment, they keep returning to, is not neutrality. It is not delay. It is the practiced capacity to see clearly when everything around you is moving fast.

00:00 Introduction to Authenticity and Curiosity

00:53 Exploring Multiple Truths and Perspectives

04:14 Cultural Experiences and American Perceptions

09:13 The Importance of Fresh Perspectives

16:58 Understanding Discernment in Decision Making

27:39 Facilitation and Changing Minds

31:07 The Power of Face-to-Face Conversations

33:53 Engagement in the Workplace

37:34 Meeting People Where They Are

39:47 Cultivating Respect and Vulnerability

41:07 Untethering Urgency from Efficiency

45:39 Long-Term Decision Making and Horizons

52:30 The Legacy of Our Decisions

#AuthentiCityFM #LocalGovernment #Leadership #PublicService #Discernment #CityManagementThis episode opens a summer series built around a question that has been sitting with the hosts for weeks. How do we develop discernment in a world where multiple truths are operating simultaneously? Rather than treating this as an abstract puzzle, the conversation grounds it in the everyday experience of local government, where people's lived experiences shape what they believe is true, and where those individual truths increasingly harden into group truths that resist data, resist logic, and resist careful analysis.

A recurring thread throughout the episode is the tension between values and information. Using a framework built around liberty, equality, community, and prosperity, the hosts work through how a single issue, like a proposed data center, can pit those values against each other so completely that no amount of fact-finding will move people toward agreement. The lesson that emerges is less about winning arguments and more about learning to say I see it differently, a phrase borrowed from an unexpected umpire encounter that becomes a model for respectful disagreement.

That same tension shows up in how practitioners experience their own professional identities, particularly online. The conversation turns to the difference between influence and influencer, and what it means to share honest perspective without performing for an audience or chasing engagement. Underneath all of it sits intuition, the gut feeling that something is right or wrong long before it can be explained. Both hosts share moments when trusting that instinct mattered more than any spreadsheet could, while also wrestling with how that instinct fits inside a profession built on data and process.

By the end, two working definitions of discernment emerge, one broad and one shaped specifically for local government leadership, both of which will anchor the series ahead. Listeners are left with a question worth carrying into their own work and their own lives. Think of a time you were certain you were right, and later discovered you weren't. What changed?

00:00 Introduction to Discernment and Truth

02:14 Exploring Multiple Truths

05:10 Data Interpretation and Public Perception

08:03 The Role of Social Media in Shaping Truths

10:15 Community Engagement and Individual Perspectives

14:19 The Challenge of Groupthink

15:08 Data Centers and Public Values

18:02 Economic Development and Community Impact

21:40 Navigating Public Hearings and Community Values

24:05 The Importance of Perspective Taking

28:53 Evolving Systems and Structures in Governance

31:30 Communication Challenges in Modern Governance

35:09 Finding Innovative Solutions for Community Engagement

43:26 The Gift of Time and Reflection

45:23 The Power of Saying No

50:16 Influence and Responsibility in Leadership

57:41 Navigating Authenticity in Professional Spaces

01:10:48 The Role of Intuition in Decision Making

A year in, the hosts of AuthentiCity FM do what any self-respecting Gen X podcast should eventually do. They pull a clip show.

Framed around Mike's encyclopedic knowledge of early Simpsons episodes and sprung on Corri and Phil with zero warning, Episode 37 is the one where the curtain comes back a little. What started as a joke that wasn't really a joke — three local government professionals who thought it might be fun to push record and see if anyone cared — has become something none of them fully anticipated when they ordered their equipment and scheduled a demo recording that almost didn't happen.

The episode opens with two pieces of news the hosts hadn't shared together publicly before. Phil is on the ballot for the ICMA Region C board seat, a candidacy that traces directly back to a nudge from two people who saw something in him before he was ready to see it himself. And Corri has written a book called Ordinary, built from the word lesson in its two spellings, and from a season of extraordinary disruption that pushed her back toward the small moments where real life actually happens.

The conversation moves from celebration into something heavier and more honest. Mike reflects on the assassination of Melissa Hortman, a state representative and friend, and what it means to run an emergency response while the human grief waits its turn. Phil traces the toll of a profession that expects its best people to absorb the worst things and still show up the next morning. Corri connects the compound weight of it all to why peer groups, friendships, and the network you build before you need it are not optional infrastructure for this work.

The episode closes with Phil turning the tables on his co-hosts, offering two stories about the specific moments he knew they were the real thing. And Corri closes it out with the simplest possible invitation.

Don't be afraid of the yes.

00:00 Introduction to the Episode's Theme

03:14 The Simpsons Influence and Personal Stories

05:39 Phil's Campaign Journey and Community Engagement

08:45 Corri’s Book and Personal Reflections

11:39 Reflections on the Podcast's First Year

14:58 Technology and Podcasting Insights

17:38 Guest Reflections and Impactful Conversations

20:40 Personal Stories and Community Service

23:44 The Importance of Support Systems

39:17 Building Connections and Vulnerability

40:12 The Weight of Professional Trauma

47:09 Navigating Grief and Community Challenges

49:08 The Importance of Peer Support

50:37 The Value of Safe Spaces

52:14 Behind the Scenes of Podcasting

57:02 Looking Ahead: Future Episodes and Live Shows

01:08:52 The Power of Caring and Compassion

*******

Ordinary: Harnessing the Power of Or in Everyday Moments (https://a.co/d/09XkxRlp), also available on Kindle Unlimited

Explore Seeing Across Time (https://v3xc.substack.com/)

Some careers accumulate experience. A few accumulate wisdom. Scott Neal has been a city manager every day of his professional life since June 1st, 1988, and this conversation is a rare window into what nearly four decades in the chair actually looks like, not the polished version, but the honest one.

The episode opens with Scott's unlikely origin story, a biblical epiphany in an urban politics class that redirected a 20-year-old economics student toward a profession he would never leave. From Norris, Tennessee to Mount Pleasant, Iowa to the Twin Cities metro, his career arc spans the full range of what local government can be, and he brings that breadth to every question the hosts put to him.

The heart of the conversation is mentorship as infrastructure. Scott watched a keynote about gender imbalance in city management and decided that raising awareness was just a polished way of complaining. His response was to build something, a fellowship program that has now placed people in city manager and assistant manager chairs across the Twin Cities. The people who came through his program in their mid-twenties are now in their late thirties and paying it forward themselves. That is what a coaching tree looks like when it actually takes root.

The episode doesn't stay in comfortable territory. Scott shares the story of an ICMA ethics censure, told with a candor that is genuinely rare in any professional context. What emerged from that experience wasn't bitterness. It was a reckoning with what it means to build real relationships in a profession that can be extraordinarily lonely, and a commitment to do it differently. His mother's line lands quietly and stays: if you want a friend, you gotta be a friend.

The hosts add their own failure stories, and the cumulative effect is something the profession doesn't often make room for. The work is hard, people are meaner than they used to be, and the young professionals coming up behind us give us the best reason to keep going anyway.

00:00 Introduction to Authenticity FM and Guest Scott Neal

02:45 Scott Neal's Journey to City Management

07:32 Advice for Aspiring City Managers

11:15 The Importance of Mentorship in City Management

17:30 Creating a Legacy of Mentorship

21:14 The Challenge of Attracting New Talent

26:13 Reflections on 45 Years in Local Government

31:50 Scott Neal's Personal Life and Interests

37:03 Fun Questions and Closing Thoughts

39:39 Navigating Failures in Public Service

43:10 The Importance of Relationships in Leadership

51:10 Ethics and Accountability in Local Government

55:42 Building a Supportive Network

01:00:42 Pride in Mentorship and Legacy

01:03:01 The Role of Peer Groups in Professional Growth

01:11:42 Optimism for the Future of Local Government

A generation that wants to make a difference is coming of age without a clear map for how to do it. Most of them have never heard of city management as a career. Fewer still understand that local government is where the most direct, tangible impact on people's daily lives actually happens. Dr. Shannon Portillo, Director of ASU's School of Public Affairs, NAPA fellow, and recently recognized Local Gov 250 champion, is dedicated to closing that gap.

The episode traces how the pipeline is actually built: fellowship programs, shadowships, and gen ed courses that reach students across disciplines who never planned to think about local government. It explores what's genuinely different about this generation arriving at the profession's doorstep, the eagerness to make change, the instinct to ask why rather than comply, and the friction that surfaces when that energy meets organizations built on institutional knowledge and decades-old rules that mostly still work until suddenly they don't.

Dr. Portillo introduces a reframe worth sitting with, the case for moving from a nonpartisan framework to a partisan-inclusive one, and why that distinction matters for the long-term trust and viability of the profession. It's not a comfortable argument, but it’s absolutely worth thinking about.

The closing challenge is the one that lingers. When professional management is done really well, no one notices it's there. That invisibility has long been a point of professional pride, and it is quietly costing the profession its next generation. Speaking up about what this work actually is, and why it matters, isn't bragging. It's recruiting.

#AuthentiCityFM #LocalGovernment #Leadership #PublicService #ASU

00:00 Introduction to Dr. Shannon Portillo

01:03 Dr. Portillo's Origin Story

04:05 The Transformation of ASU under Dr. Crow

09:04 Bridging Academia and Local Government Practice

11:39 The Evolving Role of Students in Public Service

14:37 Curriculum Changes and Community Partnerships

19:53 Building Strong Connections with Local Governments

23:40 The Importance of Shadowing in Career Development

29:31 Personal Insights and Hobbies of Dr. Portillo

38:13 Celebrating Public Service Champions

39:09 Understanding the National Academy of Public Administration

43:16 The Role of Local Government in Democracy

44:11 Why Choose ASU for Local Government Education

46:36 The Importance of Partisan Inclusivity in Public Service

49:50 Innovation in Local Government Education

51:48 Insights from New Professionals in Local Government

58:29 Navigating Change in Local Government

01:01:32 Preparing Future Public Servants for Diverse Challenges

01:12:00 The Need for Transparency in Local Government Work

What does loyalty actually require of you?

Not the version that sounds good in a performance review. The version that asks you to disagree fiercely, hold your ground, and then execute faithfully on a decision that wasn't yours. That distinction is at the center of this conversation, and it runs through everything.

This episode covers a lot of ground. What resilience looks like when the hard moments don't feel as big as everyone else thinks they should. Why a culture of change is fundamentally different from a culture that reacts to change. How the code of ethics was an easier map in 2002 than it is today, and what it means to navigate the profession when the map has limits. What it means to be nonpartisan without being apolitical, and why those are not the same thing.

The question of how to describe this profession in three words opens something worth sitting with. The answers from around the table are honest and unresolved in the right way. One answer lands on nonpartisan professional service. Another argues that distilling it at all is an injustice to local democracy. A third pulls the ICMA code of ethics out of a coat pocket at exactly the right moment and lets it speak for itself.

Underneath all of it is a quieter thread about what it means to feel the weight of the work without being crushed by it. About serving faithfully in systems that are imperfect, slow to turn, and still worth turning.

The invitation at the end is for everyone. Not just people in the profession. Anyone paying attention to their community and wondering whether their voice belongs in the conversation.

00:00 Introduction to Authenticity FM and Guest Background

01:52 Christopher Walton's Journey and Early Career

08:28 Navigating Local Government and Community Engagement

12:24 The Dynamics of Town and Gown Relationships

16:45 Resilience and Life Lessons

21:15 The Importance of Perspective and Privilege

30:54 Service to Community and Preserving Democracy

37:06 Personal Interests and Hobbies

41:40 Personal Connections and Hobbies

45:09 The Role of Family in Life

45:30 Interview Techniques and Self-Description

48:41 Describing Ourselves: A Personal Reflection

52:53 The Complexity of the Profession

56:49 Navigating Ethical Dilemmas in Public Service

01:03:32 The Legacy of Service and Community Engagement

01:08:15 The Importance of Nonpartisan Professional Service

What does it take to stay in the same seat for 27 years and never stop asking what comes next?

In this episode, we sit down with Michael Wilkes, the longest-tenured city manager in the history of Olathe, Kansas and the newly appointed President and CEO of the Alliance for Innovation. Michael spent nearly three decades building one of the most recognized local governments in the country, and this conversation covers a lot of the ground that made that possible — and what it actually felt like from the inside.

We start with the origin story. A sixth-grade student council seat, a detour through political science, a master's degree that changed everything, and a rejection letter from a county manager in Oregon that opened the door he didn't know he was looking for. Michael traces the path from budget analyst to city manager of a fast-growing Kansas City suburb, the career goal he wrote on his wall, and the moment at 39 when he checked the box.

From there the conversation moves into the harder and more interesting territory. What it looked like to lead the same community through explosive growth, the Great Recession, and COVID. Why a culture that treats change as part of who you are is fundamentally different from a culture that reacts to it. How building real relationships with your elected officials is not a soft practice but a strategic one. And why the loudest voices in any community are almost never the whole story.

Michael also talks about the transition out of the chair — what he misses, what he had to let go of, and why the Alliance role has been a genuine lifeline. His Bear Bryant story, which carries the whole weight of his leadership philosophy in about ten minutes, is worth the listen on its own.

He closes where it all begins. The work itself, and why it matters. 

00:00 Introduction to Michael Wilkes

02:09 Michael Wilkes' Journey in Local Government

09:04 Transition to the Alliance for Innovation

12:16 Experiences in Rapidly Growing Communities

17:58 Strategic Planning and Long-Term Vision

21:55 Leadership Lessons from Bear Bryant

28:50 Reflections on a 27-Year Tenure

30:33 Navigating Challenges in Local Government

33:04 Transforming Local Governance: The Impact of Term Lengths

38:11 Building Trust Through Citizen Engagement

44:15 Navigating Social Media Challenges in Local Government

48:55 The Importance of Relationships in City Management

53:57 Innovating Local Government: The Role of the Alliance for Innovation

01:04:32 Transitioning from City Manager to Executive Director

01:06:47 Navigating Retirement and Relationships

01:10:43 The Transition from Leadership to Personal Life

01:13:01 The Courage to Change and Embrace New Opportunities

01:14:27 The Birth of a Podcast: Finding Purpose

01:17:11 Reflections on Guests and Conversations

01:21:55 The Importance of Authenticity in Local Government

01:25:26 Personal Values and Life Beyond Work

01:27:05 Final Thoughts on Service and Impact

What does it mean to be successful in local government? Not the version the profession has been selling for decades, the linear path from small city to bigger city to biggest chair, but the one that actually fits the life you are building and the work you want to do.

Cori Burbach has been asking that question out loud, which takes more courage than it sounds. As Assistant City Manager in Dubuque, Iowa, a local government management fellow turned sustainability director turned ACM, and a first year ICMA board member, she joins us this episode to talk about what happens when the ladder stops being the point and what you find when you stop climbing long enough to ask what you actually need right now.

The conversation moves through the mentorship relationships that shaped her, what it looks like to mentor others without becoming the person with all the answers, and why the peer who frustrated her most early in her career turned out to be teaching her the most important thing. We get into what Dubuque's size and geography make possible, the cross-border thinking her sustainability work demanded, and what the ICMA board experience looks like from inside the first year when you are still figuring out what you signed up for.

The conversation also goes broader. Who isn't at the table in this profession yet, and what would it actually take to change that? What the pipeline conversation looks like when you strip away the campaigns with nifty names and say the obvious thing out loud. And what it means to build a support network of people who understand the work in a moment when the work is harder than it has been in a long time.

Cori closes with something quiet and generous. She hopes something in the conversation helps someone find the next right thing.

03:08 The Fellowship Experience and Career Development

05:55 Navigating Gender Dynamics in Leadership

08:53 The Importance of Mentorship in Local Government

11:46 Community Dynamics and the Role of Local Government

14:54 ICMA Board Experience and Professional Growth

17:47 International Perspectives on Local Governance

20:38 The Value of Smaller Communities in Public Service

23:35 Reflections on Career Paths and Success in City Management

46:04 The Value of the Second Chair

49:59 Finding Fulfillment in Career Choices

51:50 The Joy of Food and Community

56:47 Travel Tales: The Journey to DC

01:11:11 Diverse Perspectives in Public Service

What does it actually take to build a high-performing organization? Not the version that sounds good in a strategic plan, but the one that holds when things get hard, when timelines compress, and when the instinct to just answer the question is faster than slowing down to ask a better one.

Angela Nicholson has spent 23 years inside that question. As a labor negotiator, COVID EOC director for the County of Marin, and now executive director of HPO in Local Government, she brings the kind of clarity that only comes from having been both the person in the room with all the answers and the person who had to unlearn that habit. She joins us this episode to talk about what high performance actually requires, and why the organizations that get it right are almost always the ones that decided to invest in trust before they needed it.

The conversation moves through the HPO model itself, what alignment looks like when it's real versus when it's just everyone nodding in the same direction, and why the instinct to answer instead of ask is one of the most expensive habits in local government. Angela talks about becoming a prober rather than an answer person, about the culture shift that happens when people start believing their own judgment matters, and about why she refused to cut the small group experience when she took over the program. That piece, she argues, is where the trust actually gets built.

The conversation also goes broader. The structural fragmentation that makes cross-jurisdictional collaboration so hard and so necessary, what the generational shift might unlock for government that's been organized around fiefdoms for decades, and what it looks like to genuinely celebrate the work rather than just moving past it to the next agenda item.

https://www.highperformanceorg.com/

00:00 Introduction to Angela Nicholson

02:17 Angela's Journey in Local Government

05:20 The HPO Model and Its Impact

08:02 Empowering Local Governments

11:01 Shifting Perspectives on Leadership

15:54 Adapting to Change in Local Government

19:42 County and City Relationships

21:20 Angela's Career Highlights

23:31 Evolving Community Expectations

29:27 The Future of Local Government

36:46 Innovative Approaches to Government Organization

37:27 Building Trust and Respect in Government

39:04 The Importance of Relationships in Leadership

40:21 Creating Authentic Connections in Teams

42:49 The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership

47:17 The Value of Community in Local Government

49:03 Celebrating Team Achievements

53:27 Intentionality in Celebrating Wins

01:02:15 Final Thoughts and Wisdom for Leaders

#AuthentiCityFM #LocalGovernment #Leadership #PublicService #CityManagement

Something keeps coming up in the conversations people are having with us outside of this podcast. Not what's broken, but what they're starving for. And episode 30 is the answer we keep circling back to.

Real connection. The kind that doesn't scale, can't be automated, and refuses to move at the speed the rest of the world is demanding. A fish fry in a church basement. Six hours in a room with strangers who become something more. A hundred people crammed into a roundtable that wasn't supposed to be standing room only. Three very different stories that point to the same thing.

We get into what it actually takes to build connection in a profession that keeps confusing dispersion with community. The difference between a network you accumulate and one you curate. Why vulnerability is the price of entry and why sharing your trusted relationships freely is not a liability but the whole point. And what it means for professional associations when the people they serve start building it themselves because they got tired of waiting.

It also gets practical. What does government's role actually look like when community is fracturing and rebuilding at the same time? Not ownership, not a new department, but creating the conditions where connection can happen and then getting out of the way. Because the Facebook community group is not going to rebuild your neighborhood. But knowing you can call a neighbor when your garage door spring breaks just might.

00:00 The Power of Connection

02:52 Community Experiences and Authenticity

06:05 Building Relationships in Professional Spaces

08:38 The Importance of Intentionality in Connection

11:41 Navigating Isolation and Finding Belonging

14:45 Quality Over Quantity in Relationships

17:42 Creating Spaces for Meaningful Conversations

20:20 The Role of Storytelling in Connection

23:30 Redefining Community Engagement

25:50 Lessons from the Georgia Conference

30:40 The Role of Professional Associations in Community Building

37:38 Evolving Membership Organizations and Their Impact

43:34 Trust and Vulnerability in Community Connections

49:33 Looking Ahead: Future Episodes and Themes

The chaos didn't go away. The inbox is still full. But something shifted, and this episode is about what you do with that.

We pick up where Episode 28 left off, with the question of whether we're competing for status or competing for meaning, and move quickly into something more useful. Because noticing the problem is only the beginning. What does it actually look like to stop performing and start building? That question runs underneath everything in this conversation, from how we talk about curiosity as a leadership practice rather than a personality trait, to what it costs to dismantle systems rooted in distrust, to the agency that comes from slowing down long enough to stop treating everything as urgent.

We also get into compensation and what it means to price the work that actually matters, the specific kind of courage it takes to do better with different instead of better with more, and the distinction between reaching for solutions and asking why first. The conversation is grounded in real organizations and real decisions, and in the kind of hope that doesn't live alone. It lives in community, with the people who show up next to you, not in front of you, not selling you anything, just pulling in the same direction.

It closes with a question nobody was ready for. What are you handing to the next generation that you're genuinely proud of, and what are you hoping they're too young to hold you accountable for yet? The answers are honest in the way that only happens when nobody is performing.

00:00 The Competition Between Status and Meaning

07:54 Valuing Hard Work and High-Value Efforts

12:26 Organizational Reorientation and Upending Hierarchies

15:00 The Challenge of Moving Beyond Legacy Systems

25:15 Respect, Creativity, and Building the Next Generation

31:23 Breaking Legacy Systems and Embracing Change

37:35 The Value of Time and Presence in Leadership

40:25 Disruptive Thinkers and the Drive to Improve

49:21 Building Community and Collective Hope

53:36 The Reality of Progress and the Cost of Change

58:27 The Importance of Authenticity and Courage in Leadership

01:03:47 The Future of Community and Local Engagement

You survived the disruption. You built the resilience. And somewhere between the council meetings and the 11 PM emails you didn't have to send, something started to stir.

That's where episode 28 begins. Not with a crisis, but with a question. What happens when local government leaders stop white-knuckling it through the Fourth Turning and start actually noticing what's happening around them? Not the chaos, not the politics, not the revenue shortfalls. Something quieter. Something in them.

We turn the corner from the resilience arc into new territory, that threshold moment when surviving becomes something more. We dig into the difference between pattern matching and pattern recognition, why experience can become inertia just as easily as wisdom, and what it actually costs to keep rewarding endurance over effectiveness. The unspoken status competitions of local government are on the table, and nobody flinches.

The conversation gets real when we talk about what happens when someone finally names the thing in the room and the air changes. A 25-city coalition that didn't form because somebody found the old playbook. Leaders looking sideways, finding each other, saying grab my hand. Stories from the field that land harder than expected. And a vision of mesh networks, meaning over metrics, and the ground game of genuine connection that reframes what leadership infrastructure might actually look like going forward.

This episode doesn't hand you a framework. It hands you a mirror. And then it asks the question the whole season has been building toward. You've been noticing, you've been naming. Now what are you going to do with what you see?

Episode 29 teaser. When you're finally present, you start noticing who else is awake. And that changes everything.

00:00 Navigating Chaos and Finding Agency

02:23 The Power of Noticing and Naming

05:08 Shifting Perspectives on Local Government

07:48 The Role of Collaboration in Uncertain Times

10:48 Breaking Old Patterns and Embracing Change

13:41 The Future of Local Government Services

16:44 Building Stronger Community Connections

19:45 The Importance of Authenticity and Vulnerability

22:22 Rethinking Urgency and Influence

25:29 Creating Safe Spaces for Honest Conversations

27:58 The Value of Meaning Over Status

30:51 The Journey Towards Personal and Professional Growth

34:03 The Impact of Connection on Well-being

36:44 The Role of Courage in Leadership

39:42 Embracing Change and New Opportunities

42:34 The Power of Community Support

45:34 Looking Ahead: The Next Steps for Local Government

#localgovernment #citymanagement #resilience

Some people find their way into local government. Pam Davis knew exactly why she was going there, and then spent her career making sure others didn't have to find that path alone.

Assistant City Manager in Boulder, Colorado, Pam brings one of the most distinctive origin stories we've heard. From teenage activist to Capitol Hill intern to the realization that local government was already quietly saving the lives of people she cared most about. That clarity of purpose has never wavered. What's evolved is everything else.

This episode follows that arc. Belonging, becoming, and building. How you find your people in a profession that doesn't always make that easy. How you grow into the version of yourself you were always capable of being. And what you do once you realize you can create the spaces you once desperately needed.

The conversation also goes somewhere this podcast doesn't shy away from anymore. The weight that local government professionals carry into the work. The unthinkable moments that arrive without warning, the personal losses that don't pause for the job, the frozen seconds before instinct kicks in. The cumulative effect is a reminder of what this profession actually asks of people, and who it asks them to be.

Is that who you've always been, or did you grow into it?

00:00 Introduction to Authenticity FM and Guest Introduction

02:57 Pam's Journey into Local Government

09:03 Career Path and Experiences in Local Government

22:13 The Birth of Civic Pride

28:22 Creating Change in Local Government

34:24 Reflections on Career and Future Aspirations

39:47 Resilience and Personal Growth

44:18 Navigating Personal and Professional Challenges

49:24 The Weight of Public Service

56:07 The Importance of Community Engagement

57:53 Serving the Profession and Community

01:01:28 Lightening the Mood: A Fun Lightning Round

01:05:14 Reflections on the Podcast Journey

There's a difference between being ready and being prepared. Ready means you've checked the boxes. Prepared means you've lived in the questions long enough to know which ones matter.

This conversation explores what it takes to step into a role everyone assumes you have completely figured out. The shift from colleague to leader when you stay in the same organization. The marathon-level exhaustion that comes from nowhere after council meetings. The honest conversation about whether you and your partner are willing to carry the weight together. The three or four years of watching, learning, and building capacity before the seat opens up.

The discussion moves through culture building that allows babies and dogs at work. Through throwing out annual evaluations and replacing them with development plans where employees drive their own growth. Through policies designed for the 99% doing things right instead of the 1% doing things wrong. Through merit pay disconnected from performance conversations. Through networks that kept sanity intact during COVID by connecting people across the country dealing with the same challenges in different ways.

It explores what happens when you're not a jumper. When you stay rooted long enough to understand a community deeply before leading it. When you get to put your fingerprints on policies years before you sit in the chair. When transition feels natural because preparation happened quietly over time. When the exhaustion still surprises you even though you thought you knew what was coming.

This episode asks what readiness actually requires. Not just skills or experience, but relationships, honest conversations, support systems, and the willingness to train for a role with no guarantees you'll get it. It's about stacking conditions that make success possible without promising it. It's about finding like-minded people willing to be vulnerable and still show up as leaders.

The work of becoming ready doesn't start when you get the job. It starts years before when you decide it's worth preparing for.

00:00 Introduction to Resilience in Leadership

02:03 Elisa Cox: Journey to City Manager

03:44 Transitioning into Leadership

07:12 Building a Cohesive Management Team

10:01 Embracing the High-Performance Organization Model

12:47 Redefining Strategic Plans

14:49 Impact of Leadership ICMA on Professional Growth

17:16 Innovating Employee Evaluations

21:59 The Importance of Employee Development

25:41 Finding Resilience Through Disruption

26:56 Personal Strategies for Stress Management

32:11 The Importance of Sleep and Mental Health

34:03 Strength Training and Personal Growth

36:01 Exploring Professional Superpowers

42:05 The Loneliness of Leadership

43:44 Normalizing Vulnerability in Management

51:20 ICMA Insights and Future Directions

#citymanagement #leadership #localgovernment

Work has always been hard. But something shifted. Now it's harder to tell what's real and what's just amplified noise. Harder to know what deserves urgency and what's anxiety talking. Harder to find solid ground when everything keeps moving.

This episode opens a new conversation about resilience. Not the grit-your-teeth-and-power-through kind. The kind that helps you stay oriented when the professional landscape feels like standing on a Pogo ball while drinking from a fire hose.

The conversation explores funhouse mirrors and how distortion makes it harder to trust what you're seeing. Echo chambers that amplify what you already want to hear. The exhaustion of showing up every day when clarity of purpose has disappeared. The choice between short-term pain and long-term consequences when neither option feels good.

From what normal used to mean to what grounds you now. Walking dogs. Reading books. Making dinner. The small rhythms that anchor you when everything else spins. The anxiety visible on faces across this profession. The admission that knowing what to do next isn't as clear as it used to be. The experience of having already survived professional rupture while watching others go through theirs.

This episode doesn't offer solutions. It offers something more honest. Recognition that it's hard right now. Permission to acknowledge that maybe it will be hard tomorrow too. And a preview of where the conversation heads next—building the skills and tools to handle what gets thrown your way before the crisis hits.

The ideology inherited from previous generations said if you're just loyal and work harder, everything works out. That's not true anymore. Change isn't going anywhere. Learning to be adaptable and resilient means learning what to say yes to and what to let go of carefully.

January was disruption. February moves into resilience and what comes after. This is where that shift begins.

00:00 Introduction to Resilience and Community Dynamics

08:50 Navigating Distortion and Echo Chambers

19:00 The Impact of Anxiety on Decision Making

26:37 Finding Balance Amidst Chaos

27:24 Navigating Anxiety and Nostalgia

28:42 The Impact of COVID on Mental Health

32:39 Finding Resilience in Chaos

34:29 Permission to Pause and Reflect

35:28 The Guilt of Taking Breaks

37:36 The Role of Consistency in Leadership

40:11 Learning from the Past

41:12 Generational Shifts in Leadership

44:39 The Drive to Make Things Better

49:14 Community and Change

51:32 The Pain of Change

55:19 Building Resilience for the Future

#LocalGovernment #Leadership #Stewardship #PublicService #GenX #GenZ

The future of local government doesn't start tomorrow. It's already here.

Melissa Ochoa and Micah Eradiri are ICMA Local Government Management Fellows just starting their careers in public service. They're curious, grounded, service-driven, and already leading. They're also watching everything Gen X is building right now. Our messes and our masterpieces. Our innovation. Our inertia. Our courage. Our comfort.

This conversation closes out January's disruption series by shifting from signals and systems to stewardship. The question isn't what we're handing off to the next generation. It's whether we're creating space for them to step into it.

Our guests share stories spanning fellowship applications to immigration challenges. From perspectives that get mislabeled to accelerated degree programs that prioritize education over experience. From the difference between mentorship that opens doors and gatekeeping that keeps them closed.

Phil closes with a reminder that feels both heavy yet hopeful. These future leaders are the carriers of democracy. The council-manager form of government is one of America's greatest contributions to democratic governance, and wherever these two land, they carry that tradition forward. They're going to change the world. We just need to give them the room to prove it.

This episode is for anyone who's ever needed someone to believe in them. It's for anyone hiring the next generation who has the power to measure potential over credentials. It's for anyone wondering whether Gen Z is ready, when the real question is whether we're ready to trust them with what we've built.

00:00 Introduction to Stewardship and Local Government

01:44 Guest Introductions and Local Government Origin Stories

04:54 The ICMA Fellowship Experience

08:51 Surprises in Local Government

14:28 Theory vs. Practice in Local Government

21:56 Motivations for Entering Local Government

28:35 Future Aspirations and Professional Development

34:00 Personal Interests and Work-Life Balance

42:42 The Future of Local Government and AI

46:28 The Future of AI in Note-Taking

49:33 AI's Impact on Communication

55:42 Balancing Technology and Human Interaction

59:24 Mentorship and Career Development

01:12:00 Generational Perspectives in Local Government

01:21:52 Opportunities for Recent Graduates

#citymanagement #localgovernment #disruption

Your water treatment plant turns 100 next year. The price tag to replace it is terrifying. So you patch it together for five more years and kick the decision down the road. Again.

Most local governments don't have good hygiene around thinking futuristically. We copy and paste last year's budget. We make trade-offs that benefit the generation sitting at the table. We plan for hardscape but ignore softscape. We focus on bridges and greenways while social structures crumble and residents feel less engaged, not more.

Rebecca Ryan is a futurist and economist who spent her career helping communities see around corners. She joins us to talk about weak signals, black ice, and the frameworks that help you distinguish between noise and what actually matters. From her mom running for office in Wisconsin to studying demographics and patterns to earning her foresight certification during the Great Recession, Rebecca brings both heart and head to this work.

The conversation moves from intergenerational equity to granny hobbies. From the speed of adaptive learning in AI networks to why more people are deleting social media for their mental health. From the student who wants to build bike paths that give those with accessibility limitations independence to why local government might finally get boring again. Rebecca teaches us how to ask better questions. Not what to look for, but how to look for it. Not what's in your budget, but what's in your strategic plan that would surprise people.

We dig into why technology keeps coming, whether we're ready or not. Why the correct response to black ice is steering into it, not pumping the brakes. Why de-centering yourself and centering the next generation might be some of the best work we get to do. And why this generation of leaders was actually built for this moment, even when it feels like slipping.

The future isn't something that happens to you. It's something you build. Rebecca shows us how to see the signals, steer into what's coming, and remember that progress requires thoughtful change, not just clinging to tradition because it feels safe.

If you've ever wondered whether local government can think long term, or if you're exhausted from the whack-a-mole chaos and just want things to get boring again, this conversation offers both frameworks and hope. The kids really are the magic key. We just have to give them the paths to get there.

00:00 Introduction to Authenticity FM

02:16 Rebecca Ryan's Journey into Local Government Consulting

05:47 Understanding the Future: The Role of a Futurist

08:30 Navigating Local Government Challenges

11:47 The Importance of Long-Term Thinking in Governance

15:21 Embracing Change and Innovation in Local Government

17:59 The Future of Local Government Funding Models

21:24 Rethinking Budgeting Practices

24:35 Engaging the Next Generation in Local Government

26:37 Balancing Tradition and Innovation

30:35 The Role of Managers in Driving Change

32:25 Signals of Change in Local Government

34:22 Rebuilding Social Capital in Communities

37:37 Civic Engagement and Education

41:07 Winter is Coming: Reflections on Change

43:48 Social Media: Expectations vs. Reality

50:35 Signals for the Future

53:24 The Importance of Legacy

01:05:31 Intergenerational Equity and Community Building

#citymanagement #disruption #processintelligence

Your organization runs on invisible processes. Purchase orders that skip protocol. Approval chains scattered across three different systems. Workarounds that became standard practice so long ago nobody remembers there was ever another way. You know things aren't efficient. You can feel the friction. But you can't fix what you can't see.

Jerry Driessen is a data nerd and former CIO of Hennepin County and CTO of San Jose, who spent 30 years doing change management from the inside. Now he's working from the outside with process intelligence technology, and he's convinced the disruption potential has finally caught up to what systems thinkers have been trying to do manually for years.

This isn't another dashboard showing what happened last quarter. Not another consultant asking you to map workflows with sticky notes on conference room walls for six hours. Process intelligence creates a digital twin of how work actually flows through your organization. Procurement leaks, invoice systems involving five teams across four platforms, the real path money takes from requisition to payment. It shows you exactly where the breakdowns happen and what it's costing you.

The conversation moves from Charles Lindblom's "science of muddling through" to technology that lets you see the muddling in real time. From bounded rationality and satisficing to understanding the full system. From hoping people follow the process to actually seeing whether they do. Jerry talks candidly about why he made the leap to Celonis after three decades in government, what happens when you can finally see inefficiencies you've been living with, and the privacy considerations that come with making the invisible visible.

We dig into whether this technology amplifies what's already broken or creates space for something better. Whether trust and transparency matter more than dashboards. Whether understanding your processes is efficiency theater or genuine stewardship. And why local government might be the level where innovation actually takes root when you can see clearly enough to act.

We're still balancing on that pogo ball from Episode 21. But now we're talking about actually seeing the ball, the surface beneath it, and every wobble in real time. You can't navigate what you can't see. Process intelligence changes what you can see and what you choose to do about it.

00:00 Introduction to Disruption and Episode Guest

02:10 Jerry's Career Journey and Insights

05:35 Transitioning from Government to Consulting

07:20 Understanding Process Intelligence

11:07 The Role of AI in Process Mapping

14:03 Invisible Systems and Their Impact

14:56 AI's Role in Government Efficiency

18:58 Challenges in Government Technology Implementation

22:09 Embracing AI in Local Government

25:01 Balancing Efficiency and Public Service

27:43 Navigating Bureaucratic Challenges

30:58 The Importance of Transparency in Government

33:32 Building a Technology-Driven Culture

38:55 The Future of AI in Government

42:43 The Need for Systemic Change

49:05 Overcoming Resistance to Change

51:15 Hope for Increased Public Engagement

53:04 Final Thoughts and Resources

#localgovernment #leadership #disruption

You can't balance on a pogo ball standing still. That's the problem. We keep waiting for things to stabilize so we can find our footing, but static balance doesn't exist anymore. Welcome to 2026, the year of the fire horse. Intense energy, boldness, freedom, transformation, and a pace that doesn't slow down for anyone still trying to plan three steps ahead.

This isn't disruption. Disruption implies something temporary, something you survive and move past. We're living in post-disruption reality now, locked in what Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen at Axios call "the fastest, broadest, most consequential reordering of politics, tech, and business of our lifetimes." The guideposts we used to look up to for direction? They're gone. We're the guideposts now.

So how do you lead when you literally don't know what tomorrow brings? When the profession built on planfulness and looking twenty steps down the road enters a zone where breaking things to see what happens has become the operating principle?

There's a grounding truth that matters. There's no partisan way to flush a sewer. Regardless of what's swirling above us, we're the stewards of making things work. Rec programming still runs. Libraries stay open. We do the basic stuff that keeps communities functioning, even when chaos reigns everywhere else.

This episode kicks off our January series exploring what leadership looks like when balance requires constant motion. Ahead this month we'll explore systems that drive organizational change, signals worth following versus noise worth ignoring, and our role as stewards of the next generation inheriting whatever we build (or break) right now.

The pogo ball doesn't wait for you to feel ready. You move or you fall. We're choosing to move.

00:00 Welcome to Disruption: A New Year Begins

02:49 The Pogo Ball Analogy: Balancing Disruption

05:49 Navigating Leadership in Uncertain Times

09:03 Creating Stability Amidst Chaos

11:50 The Role of Community in Coherence

14:52 Grounding in Tactile Experiences

17:47 Revisiting the Basics of Local Government

20:36 Trust and Disruption in Local Governance

23:55 The Impact of Technology on Community Trust

26:24 The Importance of Listening in Leadership

29:31 Reassessing Local Government's Role

32:38 The Future of Local Government and Data Centers

35:03 The Courage to Question 'Why'

38:28 Preparing for the Future: Systems and Signals

40:42 The Journey Ahead: Embracing Change

#localgovernment #citymanagement #publicservice

Mike Land didn't choose city management. City management chose him. From affordable housing boards in the 1980s to serving as ICMA President today, Mike's career reflects a commitment to service, mentorship, and gratitude. In this conversation, he shares the unconventional path that led him to leadership, why he believes communities raise families together, and what a palm reading predicted when he was sixteen years old.

Phil and Corri talk with Mike about bypassing traditional career routes, giving back to the profession through association service, and why the hardest times are still blessings. They explore the realities of raising kids while managing cities, the power of showing up when you're not on the committee, and what it takes to listen to 14,000 members during three years of COVID disruption.

This episode digs into resilience, the gratitude that sustains leaders through crisis, and why being part of a community means you're at church, at the store, at the park, in the school—not just sitting in an office. Mike brings warmth, wisdom, and the reminder that sometimes the profession finds you exactly when you need it to.

00:00 Introduction and Background of Mike Land

05:41 Mike's Journey into Local Government

10:42 Leadership and Service in Professional Organizations

17:32 Navigating Challenges During COVID-19

25:35 The Ethos of Gratitude and Leadership

30:43 Building a Supportive Team and Culture

37:01 Exploring Global Connections in Local Governance

44:14 Building Trust and Community Engagement

51:53 Navigating Challenges in City Management

01:00:32 Personal Reflections and Future Aspirations

#LocalGov #Leadership #WomenInGov #CityManagement #AuthentiCityFM

Sometimes, the most honest conversations start with asking yourself if you're good enough to be in the room. This one starts with bobsleds and sourdough starters, then goes deep into the messy beauty of looking back while staying present.

Sereniah Breland, city manager of Pflugerville, Texas, opens up about imposter syndrome, hard rooms where people don't love you, and why she leans into every creative opportunity like turning budget presentations into Pfinance reports and making Tymo the drug dog the police chief photo in the city budget. She shares the moment on the Camino de Santiago when she realized presence matters more than perfection. Climbing the mountain, looking back at how far you've come, then staying grounded in the now is what leadership actually looks like.

This conversation explores what it means to lose a mentor who taught you to ground yourself with "INMC" (it's not my city), the promise to leave behind wisdom through letters to her nieces, and why grief teaches us the most about legacy. Sereniah shares core beliefs like "we see what we're programmed to see" and why being the person you mean to be matters more than being the person everyone expects.

There's talk of joy seeking and unexpected detours, the kind of wisdom that only comes from years of journaling through the really hard times, and what it means to be affable, feral, bold, unfiltered, and on the verge. Seven cities, one really long walk through Spain, and a whole lot of vulnerability later, Sereniah reminds us of what matters most.

Stay kind, stay steady, stay you. 

Because you're not meant for every room, but you're absolutely meant for great rooms.

01:56 Meet Sereniah

03:30 The Importance of Vulnerability in Leadership

08:34 Mentorship and the Power of Community

11:44 Breaking Barriers: Women in Leadership

15:30 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

20:53 The Value of Taking a Sabbatical

24:30 Lessons from the Camino de Santiago

29:44 The Grasshopper Analogy: Taking Leaps of Faith

40:52 Transformative Career Journeys

42:04 Navigating Self-Doubt in Leadership

47:05 Engagement in Professional Development

48:07 Shifting Focus from Ego to Purpose

51:42 The Importance of Fun in Leadership

01:00:41 Creativity and Community Engagement

01:10:29 Lessons from Life Experiences

01:13:08 Legacy and Mentorship

#LocalGovernment #Community #AuthenticityFM #Leadership #PublicService #CivicEngagement

What if trust hasn't disappeared, it's just stopped flowing through the channels we built for it? 

What if community isn't broken, it's just layered in ways we haven't learned to see yet?

The future of community exists somewhere between the people we trust and the systems we question, between the practices we share and the digital worlds we inhabit, between memory and meaning. We're living in an era where people willingly hand their most precious moments to platforms they'll never meet while doubting the governments they can actually see. Where geography matters less than experience. Where a rainy fireworks festival creates more connection than a perfectly executed event ever could.

This episode explores what happens when we stop trying to restore what fell and start building what wants to emerge. When we recognize that community forms around shared experiences, not shared addresses. When we understand that the soccer ball a kid uses for years matters more than the plastic trinket they'll forget in minutes. When we see that the BLT sandwich from a farmers market becomes the memory that outlasts the infrastructure.

Rebuilding community means reimagining what community can become when analog and digital both matter, when trust decentralizes instead of centralizes, when we give people a why instead of just a what or where. It means creating spaces for memories that haven't happened yet and trusting that connection will find its own path forward.

Part two of our series on community. The fall was inevitable. The reimagining is intentional.

00:00 Reimagining Community in a Digital Age

01:09 Trust and Transitions: The New Community Landscape

05:04 Decentralizing Trust: A Shift in Perspectives

10:53 Navigating Change: The Role of Networks

16:24 The Evolution of Community Norms

21:58 The Future of Community: Integrating Analog and Digital

28:45 Community of Tomorrow: Challenges and Opportunities

33:13 The Evolution of Community and Governance

37:41 The Role of City Management in Democracy

43:57 Rebuilding Trust in Local Politics

46:47 Bridging Physical and Digital Spaces

54:31 Experiences Over Materialism

01:05:23 Gratitude and Community Building

#LocalGovernment #Community #AuthenticityFM #Leadership #DigitalAge #PublicService

Does your algorithm know you better than your neighbors? That question opens a conversation about what happened to community and why it no longer feels like what it once was. We trace the shift from knowing everyone on the block to knowing everything about strangers online and what that transformation means for local government, leadership, and the future of connection.

We explore this through unexpected lenses. The Jetsons imagined a tech driven future but missed how innovation would isolate us. Brené Brown's Four Types of Power show up in neighborhoods, workplaces, and public spaces in ways that shape who belongs. Third places have faded even though they once held the social fabric together. The simple invention of the garage door opener quietly rewired how we relate to the people living closest to us. And now AI may push social media toward the same tech graveyard that holds MySpace.

From cul de sacs and alleyway conversations to curated feeds and disappearing gathering spots, we look at how the built environment, consumer behavior, and digital design have reshaped what it means to be neighbors. We revisit ideas like the Shultz Hour, a reminder that time is something we guard even as technology keeps asking for more of it. Because at the heart of authentic leadership and authentic community is permission. Permission to disconnect, to choose presence over distraction, and to rebuild a sense of belonging that no algorithm can predict.

00:00 The Changing Landscape of Community

08:02 The Impact of Urban Design on Community Interaction

13:44 Algorithms vs. Neighbors: The New Social Dynamics

22:12 The Role of Third Places in Community Building

27:42 Power Dynamics in Community Engagement

38:35 The Future of Social Media and Community Connection

42:07 The Commoditization of Attention

46:50 The Importance of Storytelling in Community

51:22 AI's Role in the Future of Social Media

56:46 Navigating Relationships in a Digital Age

01:00:19 Authenticity in a Fake World

01:07:55 The Trade-off Between Connection and Convenience

#AuthenticityFM #LocalGovernment #LeadershipWellness #PublicService #CityManagement

When did we all become people with dashboards for our bodies? A1Cs, cholesterol, sleep scores, resting heart rates. We manage complex budgets and organizations, but managing our own health? That might be the hardest part.

In this episode, we get honest about what it really takes to stay upright in this profession. Phil opens up about living with Type 1 diabetes for nearly 20 years and maintaining a 1,165-day run streak. Corri shares her wake-up call and the recovery that followed. Mike talks about hot yoga at 105 degrees, the superpower of sleep, and the gift of good genetics.

The conversation moves from personal health stories into deeper territory. The phone calls that happen during dog walks. The professional courage it takes to say "it can wait." The mindset shift happening across local government from transactional service delivery to relational community building. Because how we show up for ourselves directly shapes how we show up for our communities. We talk about why younger professionals need to build sustainable practices now, because maintaining wellness is so much easier than regaining it.

Phil also shares what November means to him, including his family's story of courage that shaped his entire local government career.

This is health and wellness for local government professionals, not the Instagram version. Heart rates, blood sugar, boundaries, and the messy truth about trying to lead a community when you're running on empty.

00:00 Introduction to Health and Wellness in Professional Life

02:49 Personal Health Journeys and Challenges

08:07 The Importance of Setting Boundaries

12:27 Managing Chronic Conditions and Self-Advocacy

22:35 Understanding Diabetes: Type 1 vs Type 2

30:29 The Role of Technology in Health Monitoring

35:49 Finding Balance: Data, Health, and Personal Growth

52:59 Setting Boundaries in Professional Relationships

01:08:56 Rethinking City Hall Operations

01:11:18 Raising Awareness for Diabetes

What does 48 years in local government teach you about leadership, reinvention, and staying authentically yourself? In this episode, we sit down with Craig Rapp, consultant, mentor, and creator of Compass Peer Groups, for a conversation that spans from his first job as a 25-year-old city administrator to his current work supporting the next generation of local government leaders.

Craig takes us through two remarkable halves of his career: the first 22 years as a striver in city management, and the last 25 years as a seeker navigating consulting, face plants, learning curves, and ultimately building something meaningful. Along the way, we explore the unexpected connections between Canadian tuxedos, Gordon Lightfoot, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jesse Ventura, bow ties, and the leadership frameworks that shaped Craig's journey.

We dig into the messy middle of career transitions, the courage it takes to reinvent yourself at any age, the power of peer support, and why putting the ladder back down matters more than pulling it up. Craig shares wisdom about navigating failure, staying curious, and being a person of your time while still pushing forward into new territory (yes, even AI artifacts).

This is a conversation about authenticity, longevity, and what it means to build a career that serves not just yourself, but the profession and the people coming up behind you.

#LocalGovernment #Leadership #CareerReinvention #CityManagement #AuthenticityFM

01:34 Craig Rapp's Journey into Local Government

04:13 Career Transitions and Reinvention

09:48 The Importance of Support Systems

15:33 Authenticity in Professional Life

22:36 The Connection to Ore Boats and Personal History

25:54 Early Influences and Upbringing

29:03 Navigating Political Challenges

37:42 Lessons from Jesse Ventura's Tenure

42:59 Courage in Leadership

48:27 The Importance of Peer Support

58:50 Compass Peer Groups and Their Impact

01:01:06 The Power of Optimism in Leadership

01:04:28 Peer Support: The Backbone of Resilience

01:08:31 Real Stories of Peer Group Impact

01:10:58 Improv and Leadership: A Unique Connection

01:15:39 Imagining Life Beyond City Management

01:21:17 Advice for the Next Generation of Leaders

Stories, strategy, and spontaneous connection. This is your guide to transforming five days in Tampa into friendships, insights, and moments that remind you why you love this work.

Whether you're boarding your first plane to an ICMA conference or you're a veteran of twenty, Phil, Mike, and Corri break down how to turn five overwhelming days into career-defining moments. From the anxiety of walking into a room with 5,000 strangers to the magic of hallway conversations that become lifelong friendships, this episode is your honest, practical guide to making ICMA 2025 unforgettable.

The hosts share their own evolution—from sticking close to familiar faces to actively seeking out the most eccentric sessions, from treating keynotes like optional background noise to sitting front row and soaking in every word. They reveal the 10-10-10 rule for conference success, why your badge lanyard matters more than you think, and how to ask questions that create real connection instead of awkward small talk. Mike confesses his technology shortcuts, Corri challenges you to meet people outside your comfort zone, and Phil makes the case for being unapologetically present.

This isn't about maximizing sessions or collecting vendor swag—it's about showing up for a profession that can feel lonely, finding your people, and remembering why this work matters. From Arthur Brooks and Amy Cuddy keynotes to the Mount Rushmore panel of legends, from regional meetings to the expo hall puppies, every detail is an invitation to engage differently.

Plus: Why you should take your badge off when exploring Tampa, the power of handwritten thank-you notes, and an invitation to join the live podcast recording on Monday afternoon.

#ICMA2025 #LocalGovernment #CityManagement #PublicService #Tampa #ProfessionalDevelopment #AuthenticityFM

02:45 Personal Experiences at ICMA Conferences

05:55 Keynote Themes and Speakers

10:23 Navigating the Conference as a Newcomer

19:33 Engaging with Speakers and Networking

27:02 Strategies for Meeting New People

34:46 The Importance of Vendor Interactions

40:33 Setting Goals for the Conference

51:08 Preparing for the Conference Experience

01:00:31 The Value of Keynote Speakers

01:09:05 Closing Thoughts and Final Tips

Join us for an extraordinary conversation with two legends of local government management: John Phillips and Steve Carter. After decades leading communities and another decade as senior advisors mentoring Illinois managers, these veterans share unfiltered insights about what it really takes to sustain a career in public service.

From their first internships in the 1960s and 70s to wrapping up their roles as ILCMA senior advisors, John and Steve discuss the evolving challenges of the profession—from navigating social media storms and changing council dynamics to building trust in university towns and managing multi-jurisdictional relationships. They reveal why they stayed in their communities for 25-30 years when others leave after five, how they built staff cultures that outlasted their tenures, and what it means to show up with integrity when the work gets hard.

This isn't a retirement party—it's a masterclass in relationship building, ethical leadership, and the quiet art of making local government work. Whether you're new to the profession or a seasoned manager, their stories about hiring good people, maintaining work-life balance, and keeping the code of ethics close will resonate deeply.

#CityManagement #LocalGovernment #PublicService #LeadershipLegacy #ICMA #ILCMA #AuthenticityFM

01:07 Meet the City Management Legends

02:59 The Role of Senior Advisors

08:55 Understanding Downstate Illinois

13:10 Building Networks in City Management

16:06 The Importance of Professional Local Government

17:32 Navigating Modern Communication Challenges

22:19 Evolving Relationship Management

33:11 Reflections on Long-Term Careers in City Management

43:07 Hiring for Values and Integrity

48:41 Evolving Paths to City Management

55:14 Ambassadors of Change in Local Governance

01:02:17 Legacy and Collaboration Beyond Boundaries

01:09:07 The Importance of Work-Life Balance

01:16:08 Reflections on Mentorship and Inspiration

#AuthentiCityFM #Leadership #Resilience #Creativity #EmotionalIntelligence #GenX #Millenials #GenZ #Homelanders #ArtistArchetype

While seasoned leaders have been perfecting the art of holding things together, the next generation has been quietly mastering something entirely different: the art of making things beautiful. In Part 2 of this conversation, we explore what happens when crisis-forged leadership meets artist-generation innovation.

Through stories of children drawing with grandparents, asking deeper questions at dinner tables, and naturally building inclusive communities, they discover that the Homelanders aren't just surviving the storm—they're learning to dance in it. These digital natives possess emotional intelligence that cuts through professional facades, form communities around shared interests rather than geographic boundaries, and treat creativity not as luxury but as essential processing power.

The conversation moves from theoretical observations to practical implications: What does it mean when vocal tones become the new body language? How do you lead when maps no longer define communities? Why might grandma hobbies be the most strategic thing leaders aren't doing?

But the biggest revelation isn't about generational differences—it's about generational collaboration. As these three leaders grapple with letting go of systems that no longer serve, they realize the Artist Generation isn't waiting for permission to rebuild. They're already creating what comes next, with tools their parents are just beginning to understand.

Raw, hopeful, and surprisingly practical, this episode captures the moment when exhausted leaders discover that the future might not just be in good hands—it might be in better hands than they ever imagined.

00:00 Introduction to the Framework

02:36 Navigating Complexity as a Gen X Manager

04:43 The Importance of Emotional Intelligence in Leadership

08:10 The Role of Curiosity and Courage in Leadership

11:22 Generational Perspectives on Winning and Participation

18:14 Creating a Culture of Care and Curiosity

25:21 The Power of Intuition in Decision Making

30:58 Intergenerational Connections and Learning

37:53 The Impact of Free Speech and Civil Discourse

49:34 Embracing Analog Experiences in a Digital World

01:01:38 The Future of Local Government and Community Engagement

#Leadership #Crisis #LocalGovernment #PublicSector #Resilience #AuthentiCityFM

What happens when crisis stops being exceptional and becomes the constant? In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Mike, Corri, and Phil explore how two generations now share leadership during what feels like permanent emergency.

Gen X—the latchkey kids who watched the Challenger explosion—learned early that adults couldn't always protect them, developing the radical self-reliance that would serve them through decades of managing the unmanageable. Millennials entered adulthood believing institutions could be reformed, only to have that faith tested by the 2008 financial collapse and everything that followed. Now both generations find themselves leading through COVID, civil unrest, and institutional breakdown, each bringing their own crisis-forged strengths to the work of holding things together.

Through personal stories spanning childhood memories to real-time leadership decisions, they examine how these experiences shaped their approaches to trauma, resilience, and the exhausting work of showing up when systems feel fundamentally broken. But the conversation takes an unexpected turn when they realize something remarkable: while they've been patching and managing, they're raising what generational theorist Neil Howe calls the "Homelanders"—the Artist Generation who may already possess what's needed to rebuild rather than just repair.

Raw and reflective, this episode captures three seasoned leaders confronting a profound question: What if the most courageous thing they could do is finally let go?

Next time: Part 2 explores how the Artist Generation is already showing us what rebuilding looks like—and why that might require us to lean into a little childhood joy.

00:00 Navigating the Chaos of Modern Life

02:59 Generational Reflections: Understanding Gen X

07:48 The Impact of Shared History on Generations

13:02 Crisis and Awakening: The Generational Cycle

18:24 The Weight of Responsibility in a Relentless Era

21:29 Crafting Solutions: The Role of Gen X

25:38 Art as a Unifying Force in Turbulent Times

32:32 Nostalgia and Changing Times

35:37 The Rise of Grandma Hobbies

38:15 Navigating Change and Uncertainty

41:34 Rebuilding and Opportunities Ahead

48:48 Letting Go and Moving Forward

55:36 Courage and Community in Crisis

#Innovation #Leadership #Teamwork #LocalGov #PublicService #AuthentiCityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

What if the secret to lasting innovation isn't working harder, but working at 85% capacity? What if the best leadership development happens around a smoker instead of a conference room? And what if the biggest barrier to breakthrough thinking is simply being too busy to think?

Join Phil, Corri, and Mike for a conversation with Nick Kittle—innovation expert, barbecue pitmaster, and the guy who's helped over 100 communities stop saying "that's how we've always done it." From building one of the first government innovation offices to creating team-building events that involve actual trust (with your brisket), Nick brings hard-won wisdom about making change stick.

We dig into the messy realities of innovation: Why scarcity and abundance are easier to navigate than the dreaded middle ground. How to spot hidden talent in your organization (especially when they don't see it themselves). The critical difference between innovation and efficiency that most people get backwards. And why the federal chaos might actually make local government more important than ever.

Plus: climbing 14,000-foot peaks for life lessons, the ethics problems stifling government partnerships, and a book full of made-up words that perfectly capture workplace frustrations we all feel but never name.

Whether you're trying to build something new, develop emerging leaders, or just figure out how to do important work without burning out, this episode delivers practical insights wrapped in refreshingly honest conversation.

Like, subscribe, and tell us about your own innovation wins and failures—we're here for the real stories, not the polished ones. This is sustainable change, AuthentiCity-style.

01:45 Sustainable Innovation: An Introduction

06:09 The Journey from Illinois to Colorado

13:35 Navigating the Middle Ground of Innovation

17:12 The Future of Local Government: Opportunities and Challenges

23:50 Empowering the Next Generation of Leaders

32:18 Identifying Hidden Talent in Organizations

35:25 Balancing Commitment and Capacity

38:23 Innovation vs. Efficiency in Overworked Teams

46:33 Books That Shape Leadership Thinking

49:10 The Creative Process and Brainstorming

57:30 Climbing Colorado's 14ers: Lessons from the Mountains

01:00:29 Barbecue as a Team-Building Experience

01:18:15 Navigating Disruption in Local Government

01:22:32 The Power of Creativity in Language and Humor

#Leadership #Adaptation #DecisionMaking #LocalGov #PublicService #AuthentiCityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

What if leadership isn’t about what you build, but how you decide what’s worth keeping, changing, or letting go? In this “living lab” episode, the AuthentiCity FM crew gets real about what to measure, what to reimagine, and why sometimes the hardest part is asking the right questions—about your work, your team, or even your own podcast.

Join us for honest conversations around pilot projects, creative risks, feedback that stings (and inspires), and the very real challenges of adapting before it’s too late. From data dives and Target runs to unexpected lessons in community, we unpack the practical side of growth, value, and leading with curiosity.

Whether you lead a team, run a city, or just want to do your work better, this episode is packed with honest insights, vulnerable stories, and the courage it takes to hit “pause,” scale up, or try something totally new.

Like, subscribe, and send us your big questions—especially the ones with no easy answers. This is decision-making, AuthentiCity-style.

#Leadership #Adaptation #DecisionMaking #LocalGov #PublicService #AuthentiCityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

00:00 The Test of Leadership

08:37 Data Insights and Listener Demographics

18:42 Defining Outreach vs Engagement

30:03 Falling in Love with Your Community

38:54 Taking the Hatchet: When to Let Go

44:55 Are We Asking the Right Questions?

46:39 Creativity in Hierarchies: Welcoming Disruptive Voices

55:36 The Perils of Standing Still

1:03:16 Scaling Up: From Fun Project to Something More

#Resilience #PublicSector #LocalGov #CityManagement #Leadership #Authenticity When Midwest leadership collides with sports rivalries, team transitions, and a touch of Detroit flair, you get an episode that’s anything but ordinary.

What happens when city management meets football fandom, career leaps, and a wardrobe bursting with Motor City spirit? This episode takes listeners inside the real-life journey from aspiring public servant to the "big chair" in city government, offering candid stories, lessons learned, and plenty of laughter along the way.

Discover how stepping up—whether to lead a team through change, adapt from medium-sized municipal life to small-town multitasking, or navigate the uncharted waters of crisis—builds authentic leadership and resilience. You’ll hear how trust is built in city hall and the local barber shop, why small towns run on relationships, and what it truly means to show up for a community in moments big and small.

Sports rivalries and fashion statements spark friendly debate, but the heart of this episode lies in its exploration of fiscal stewardship, infrastructure investment, international connections, and the creative ways local leaders keep teams united and communities thriving.

Above all, it’s a fast-paced, joy-filled look at the magic that happens when community spirit, organizational growth, and a healthy dose of humor come together in the heart of the Midwest—reminding us that the most meaningful leadership stories are often a blend of grit, grace, and a wardrobe change or two.

02:24 Victor Cardenas: Journey into Local Government

05:17 Transitioning from Assistant to City Manager

08:16 The Challenges of Small Town Management

11:27 Economic Development in Novi

19:37 Navigating Relationships as a City Manager

22:29 Pushing Boundaries in Leadership

28:00 Global Connections and Cultural Experiences

31:23 Navigating Board Service During COVID

35:20 Reflections on Service and Leadership

52:03 Cultural Connections and Community Involvement

56:50 The Importance of International Collaboration

58:10 Sports Rivalries and Community Spirit

#Recruitment #PublicSector #LocalGov #CityManagement #Leadership #Authenticity #AuthentiCityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

City managers, directors, and department heads don’t just appear—they’re recruited, chosen, and tested under pressure. Recruiting these top leaders for local government has never been more complex—or more urgent. In this episode of Authenticity FM, we’re joined by Charlene Stevens, Vice President of Human Capital at MGT and a veteran executive recruiter who’s seen every angle of the hiring table. With communities facing waves of retirement, rising expectations, and candidate pools that look nothing like they did a decade ago, how do you actually find the right leader—and what really works in high-stakes recruitment?

Phil, Corri, and Mike dig into today’s realities with Charlene, exploring everything from the challenge of attracting great candidates and the influence of social media, to the tension between internal and national searches and the surprising ways mentorship shapes careers. Whether you’ve been through a city manager search or you’re thinking about your next step in public service, you’ll find unfiltered perspectives on what’s changing, what’s challenging, and the practical strategies that can set both organizations and candidates up for success.

00:00 The Importance of Executive Recruitment in Local Government

01:30 Charlene Stevens: A Journey Through Public Sector Recruitment

04:18 Current Trends in Executive Recruitment

06:28 Navigating Internal vs. External Candidates

11:44 Generational Shifts in Local Government Recruitment

15:29 Addressing Reputation Issues in Recruitment

18:58 Understanding Governing Body Dynamics

29:56 Negotiating Offers: The Role of the Recruiter

37:52 Navigating Candidate Communication

43:10 Common Interview Mistakes and How to Avoid Them

50:19 Mentorship and Talent Spotting

56:27 Networking and Building Professional Relationships

#Resilience #Vulnerability #LocalGov #CityManagement #Leadership #Authenticity #AuthentiCityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

What does it really take to keep showing up—at work, at home, and in the moments that test your limits? This episode is all heart, laughter, and honesty, as the team dives into moving families mid-pandemic, balancing burnout and big ambition, and the messy business of leading when nobody has all the answers. From boardroom debates and “easy tiger” pep talks to cutting grass at wild angles and learning reverse mentorship from kids, it’s a conversation that embraces imperfection and proves that vulnerability isn’t a weakness—it’s the secret sauce.

If you’ve ever been the “line leader,” felt the pressure to be everything to everyone, or just struggled to find your footing during a year that wouldn’t quit, you’ll find real talk and relatable energy here. Whether you’re chasing career milestones, cheering for your own growth, or just trying to keep your battery charged, this hour is a reminder: bring your whole self, laugh at your missteps, and never underestimate the power of a good team.

00:00 Introduction to Tanya and Her Journey

13:22 The Role of ICMA and Community Engagement

22:13 Leadership Challenges and Vulnerability

26:47 The Importance of Authenticity

34:46 Stewardship of Democracy in Leadership

38:51 The Need for Personal Breaks

53:07 Advice for Young Leaders

56:41 The Power of Open Disagreement

01:00:05 Leadership and Cultivating Others

01:04:58 Vulnerability as a Leadership Strength

01:12:19 Reverse Mentoring and Learning from the Next Generation

#Civility #Safety #Resilience #LocalGovernment #CityManagement #Leadership #Authenticity #AuthenticityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

What happens when the boundaries of public debate break down and incivility becomes the norm? In this episode, the AuthentiCity FM team takes a candid look at the real-world impact of rising hostility, personal attacks, and threats faced by public servants—and explores how leaders can hold the line on civility, safety, and simply showing up in their communities.

Through honest stories and frank reflection, Corri, Mike, and Phil talk about what’s driving this new intensity, the toll it takes on local leaders at every level, and what it means for the future of local government. The conversation digs into why civility still matters, how to build real resilience on the front lines of public service, and how safety—both emotional and physical—has become a central concern for those who choose to serve.

Along the way, you’ll find moments of vulnerability, camaraderie, practical advice, and even a bit of nostalgia (yes, there’s a Gargamel glass cameo!)—reminding us that showing up authentically is as important as the work itself.

00:00 Introduction to Incivility in Local Government

02:58 The Impact of Threats and Harassment

06:37 Personal Experiences and Reflections

09:56 The Role of Social Media in Public Discourse

14:29 Learning to Disconnect from Negativity

20:01 The Crisis in Local Governance

25:12 Building Resilience in Public Service

30:09 The Importance of Community Support

34:00 Strategies for Civil Discourse

39:07 The Role of Storytelling in Governance

53:13 Finding Hope and Moving Forward

#LocalGovernment #CityManagement #Leadership #Authenticity #AuthenticityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

Join hosts Phil, Corri, and Mike as they dig deep into the transformative power of mentorship—the core relationships that shape careers, communities, and confidence. In this episode, the team shares personal stories, explores the evolving definitions of mentorship across generations, and uncovers the small nudges and tough lessons that unlock hidden potential.

Discover why the best opportunities often come from someone else recognizing your talents before you do. Learn about the changing nature of mentorship: from traditional, top-down models to collaborative, boundaryless connections fueled by curiosity and technology. You’ll hear about reverse mentorship, generational shifts, and practical advice for finding and becoming great mentors in local government and beyond.

Whether you’re a seasoned leader, an emerging professional, or just seeking inspiration for your next chapter, this conversation will challenge how you think about guidance, purpose, and growth. Tune in for real talk, a few laughs, and powerful takeaways that might just change how you see the journey ahead.

Sound Bites

"Behind every success story, there's usually a mentor who made a difference."

"Mentorship is more than advice. It’s about recognizing talent and encouraging growth."

"Good mentors help us see potential we didn’t see in ourselves."

"Mentorship is not a one-way street. We derive as much as we give."

Chapters

00:00 The Importance of Mentorship

06:03 Personal Stories of Mentorship

13:33 Generational Perspectives on Mentorship

20:54 Navigating Mentorship in Leadership Roles

26:42 Technology and Mentorship Across Generations

29:59 Generational Perspectives on Technology and Engagement

35:28 Purpose-Driven Work and Reverse Mentorship

38:44 Building Connections and Strategic Networking

45:06 Curiosity and the Role of AI in Mentorship

50:55 Nostalgia and Childhood Memories

58:46 The Importance of Mentorship and Support

#LocalGovernment #CityManagement #Leadership #Authenticity #AuthenticityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

In Episode 3 of AuthentiCity FM, join hosts Corri Spiegel, Phil Kiraly, and Mike Sable as they embark on an exciting exploration of disruption and the intriguing patterns of history. Discover how the age-old adage of "everything old becomes new again" rings true in today’s ever-changing landscape. This discussion highlights the power of launching initiatives even if they aren’t polished and the dynamic evolution of media’s role within local government.

But that’s not all! Tune in to hear about the upcoming ICMA conference, a fantastic opportunity for professional growth and vibrant community engagement. Don’t miss out on an episode brimming with insights into authenticity and the ways we can all contribute to a richer, more connected future.

In this episode of Authenticity FM, hosts Phil Kiraly, Corri Spiegel, and Mike Sable discuss the launch of their podcast, the role of AI in their creative process, and the impact of recent natural disasters on communities. They reflect on personal experiences with crises, the importance of networking and support in public service, and the challenges of navigating social media. The conversation emphasizes resilience, collaboration, and the human connection in the face of adversity.

#LocalGovernment #CityManagement #Leadership #Authenticity #AuthenticityFM #RealStories #BoldIdeas #BetterCommunities

Welcome to the inaugural episode of AuthentiCity FM, where we dive into the heart of local government with hosts Corri Spiegel, Mike Sable, and Phil Kiraly. Join us as we explore our unique journeys into city management, share personal stories, and discuss the challenges and triumphs of leading communities. Discover the passion and authenticity that drive us to make a difference, and learn why city management is more crucial than ever in today's complex world. Tune in for an inspiring conversation that blends humor, insight, and a shared commitment to public service.