Explore every episode of the podcast At the Water's Edge
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
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| The Iran War Could Push Africa Toward Collapse | Fidel Amakye Owusu | 20 Oct 2026 | 00:50:31 | |
How is the war over the Strait of Hormuz reaching Africa? Ghanaian security and geopolitical analyst Fidel Amakye Owusu returns to explain how the Iran war is driving fuel protests, food insecurity, and the risk of state collapse across the continent. We discuss why removed fuel subsidies make this shock hit Africans twice as hard, how Gen Z protests brought down Madagascar’s government, and why military juntas no longer bother pretending to be democracies in a multipolar world. We also cover Egypt weighing troops for Saudi Arabia, Tim Kennedy’s ambush in the DRC and the scramble for critical minerals, the Houthi–al-Shabaab connection across the Bab el-Mandeb, the succession question in Saudi Arabia, and which African states are closest to collapse. Fidel’s warning: when people can’t afford food, they protest. When there’s no food to buy, they take up arms. Fidel Amakye Owusu is a geopolitical and security advisor and CEO of DefSEC Analytics Africa, focused on terrorism, insurgency, and governance across Africa. Africa Intelligence Report (waitlist): https://the-africa-intelligence-report.ghost.io/join-the-waitlist/Fidel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidel-amakye-owusu-8158b6149/ Chapters | |||
| Saudi Arabia's Nightmare: The Reality of the Houthi Missile Threat | 16 Oct 2026 | 00:12:18 | |
Houthi missiles are hitting Riyadh’s main airport, and it’s turning into Saudi Arabia’s worst-case scenario. One strike killed at least 12 people and injured around 300. Flights are cancelled, and the oil executives Saudi Arabia was trying to host have pulled out. This week I trace how we got here, starting with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman: his rise to power, the 2017 Ritz-Carlton purge, and his 2015 decision to go to war in Yemen with a military built to protect the monarchy, not to fight. A decade of escalation pushed Iran to arm the Houthis with better and better asymmetric weapons, and that same adaptation is now being used against U.S. forces. Then the bigger question: if the House of Saud can’t keep the kingdom safe, what happens to the deal that has kept it stable? I walk through what’s at stake, from global oil and food supplies to who controls Mecca and Medina. For more on the strategic side of the Iran conflict, go back and listen to the Escalation Trap series with Robert Pape. Want to go one step further? Members of The Briefing Room on YouTube get this week’s companion video, which looks at what most likely comes next if something happens to MBS. https://youtu.be/6E_cTl9em2A | |||
| France, Iran, and the Road to World War III: The Real Risk | Robert Pape | 15 Oct 2026 | 00:43:23 | |
Ten ships hit in the Strait of Hormuz in a single week, the most of the entire war. Houthi missiles shut down Riyadh's airport in the largest set of attacks in Saudi Arabia's modern history. Now France has confirmed it is sending radar and air defense assets to protect Saudi Aramco infrastructure at Yanbu, less than a couple hours' drive from Medina.Professor Robert Pape returns to explain how France's move could carry the war into Europe, and why the escalation trap is now compounded by a dangerous new dynamic: preemption.We cover:- Why foreign troop deployments are the strongest risk factor for suicide terrorism, from 9/11 to Mali- Why the Houthis have never been defeated, and how the fighting could open the door to AQAP- Radar orientation and why Saudi Patriots may have been blind to Houthi missiles- What the leaked three-day air plan has in common with Desert Storm's Instant Thunder- How four actors with incentives to strike first create a spiral that looks a lot like July 1914- MANPADS, drones, and the growing risk to commercial airlinersWant the full Q&A with Professor Pape? Join The Briefing Room on YouTube. Members get the complete Q&A the same day as the interview, plus members-only content every week.00:00 This week's escalation00:39 Professor Pape returns01:28 Ten ships hit in Hormuz, Riyadh airport struck02:28 France moves to defend Aramco at Yanbu05:00 Why this isn't a world war (yet)07:33 Foreign troops and suicide terrorism: Mali and 9/1114:23 MBS and the Saudi-Houthi war15:38 Yanbu, Medina, and the sectarian map18:45 Can French air defense even help?23:13 Everyone's in the escalation trap now24:30 The three-day air plan and Instant Thunder34:08 Preemptive spirals: a four-player game35:46 The illusion of control and the road to World War I38:15 How this becomes a true world war40:09 MANPADS, drones, and airliners42:45 Q&A preview | |||
| U.S. Brigades Last 24 Hours Against Ukraine’s Drones | MG Duane Miller | 13 Oct 2026 | 00:50:25 | |
What happens when a U.S. brigade trains against Ukraine's drone forces? They usually have to reset the exercise within 24 hours. Major General Duane Miller, until recently Deputy Commanding General of Security Assistance Group–Ukraine, explains why America is not ready for the speed of modern war. After more than two years watching Ukraine fight, MG Miller argues that the speed of learning is now a measure of national power. Ukraine pushes new tactics, software updates, and drone fixes to the front in two to three weeks. The U.S. averages over a decade to field a new weapon system. In this episode: - Why Ukraine's edge isn't the drones but the learning loop behind them - What happens when U.S. brigades face Ukraine's Unmanned Systems Force - Why Patriot software updates still move by courier - Why Ukraine has stopped wanting some U.S. munitions - How defense primes and procurement rules slow innovation - What the U.S. military should change before the next first battle Links: MG Miller's article, "The Speed of Learning: The New Measure of National Power": https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/speed-learning-new-measure-national-power-duane-miller-ldake/ Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Had-NK89U_I At the Water's Edge is a national security and geopolitics podcast hosted by Scott Kelly, a former Green Beret. The views expressed are those of the guest and do not represent the official position of the U.S. Army or Department of Defense. | |||
| The Rise of the Mecca Alliance: Turkey, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia's Game Plan | 09 Oct 2026 | 00:25:59 | |
Fifty-nine days after it was signed, the Mecca Pact has been activated. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Turkey have agreed to send forces to defend the kingdom against the Houthis. The alliance itself isn’t the real danger. The danger is when it was formed. Scott breaks down how the Houthis pushed Riyadh to call in its new allies: strikes on four Saudi cities, attacks on the East-West pipeline that lets Saudi oil bypass the Strait of Hormuz, threats to Saudi airspace, and a drone the Saudis say was headed for Mecca. He separates what the pact is from what it isn’t, and reads the fine print on domestic approval, “all those responsible,” and Pakistan’s insistence that the pact is purely defensive. Scott also covers what Turkey can actually bring (combat-proven drones, a growing defense industry, and a conscript army that isn’t built for “away games”), why Turkey’s constitution puts treaty approval and troop deployments in separate articles, and why Yemen is nothing like northern Syria. Then Pakistan: nearly six decades of military ties to Saudi Arabia, a three-front squeeze at home, and a delicate role as mediator between Washington and Tehran. Finally, the big picture: with the U.S. tied down in its war with Iran, middle powers are building their own security order. Could alliances formed after a war starts create a 1914-style escalation chain? And why this is about state power politics, not a Sunni religious bloc. What does the Mecca Pact mean for Israel? The members-only companion episode is available now in The Briefing Room, our members-only community on YouTube: [MEMBERSHIP LINK] Follow Scott on Substack: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg
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| The Most Dangerous Weeks of the Iran War Are Here | Robert Pape | 08 Oct 2026 | 00:34:27 | |
We’re in the most dangerous weeks of the Iran war since March, and the midterms are the reason. Professor Robert Pape returns to explain the wicked incentives pushing President Trump toward escalation before November 3rd, and why every option likely landing on his desk hands Tehran the advantage. Pape walks through the three clocks converging on the midterms. The USS Theodore Roosevelt and a second Marine Expeditionary Unit are closing within striking range of Iran. The Strategic Petroleum Reserve has plateaued while Iran strikes more tankers in Hormuz than in any week of the war. And inflation inside Iran, which Pape puts near 100%, is tempting Washington to try to break Iran’s economy with air power. He explains why striking Iran’s refineries could invite a retaliatory strike on Saudi Arabia’s Abqaiq facility that would hurt America more than Iran, and why landing Marines on Larak Island, Hormuz Island, or near Chabahar would hand Iran fixed targets without breaking its kill chain. We also cover the recent Tel Aviv flight incident, the drone threat that moved U.S. B-1 bombers out of an RAF base, and what history says about how long it takes a suicide terrorism campaign to reach the U.S. homeland once ground forces are committed. Want Pape’s take on whether the Mecca Pact pulls Pakistan and Turkey into this war, and whether the overlapping U.S. and Israeli elections double the danger? The rest of the conversation is available in The Briefing Room, our members-only community on YouTube: [MEMBERSHIP LINK] Read Robert Pape’s Substack, The Escalation Trap: https://escalationtrap.substack.com At the Water’s Edge brings you insights beyond the headlines, with a practitioner’s view on national security and geopolitics. Hosted by Scott Kelly, former Green Beret and founder of Grayzone Advisory.
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| The Truth About Veteran Support Systems and How to Fix Them | 04 Oct 2026 | 00:28:38 | |
Veterans die by suicide at a rate 72% higher than their civilian peers, and women veterans at a rate 101% higher. Lyndsay Tkach, Wounded Warrior Project's Director of Mental and Brain Health Services, has spent twelve years working on that problem. In the series finale, she explains why she calls suicide "a human issue" rather than only a medical one, and what it would take to reach veterans at scale before a crisis hits. This conversation covers the risk factors that sit outside the therapist's office (financial distress, chronic pain, sleep problems, broken relationships), the difference between risk factors and warning signs, and how WWP screens every warrior who comes in through its financial, physical, and mental health programs. It also takes on a hard question: how do you screen a community that learned to lie on every health survey? Along the way, Lyndsay shares that one in four WWP warriors surveyed reported suicidal thoughts in the past year, why connection may be the most underused intervention, and why families need support too. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline), or reach the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, press 1. This is Episode 5, the finale, of Still Here, a five-part series produced in partnership with Wounded Warrior Project for Suicide Prevention Awareness Month. Catch up with Episodes 1–4 (Zach, Lindsey, Sam, and Joe) if you haven't yet. Chapters: Learn more about Wounded Warrior Project: woundedwarriorproject.org
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| Is Iran's War Spreading? Three Incidents, One Dangerous Pattern | 02 Oct 2026 | 00:24:38 | |
Masked men with vans full of fuel outside the British base that launched B-52s against Iran. A FlyDubai co-pilot stabbing his captain on a flight to Tel Aviv. A drone knocking out power to the Prophet's Mosque in Medina. Three incidents in one week, as Iran's 45-day deadline on the U.S. blockade expires and a third American carrier heads for the region. Is Iran launching a terror campaign? I don't think so. If Iran is behind these incidents, it looks less like an offensive and more like a regime testing three different escalation paths, all before U.S. combat power peaks in late November. In this solo brief, I walk through each incident the way I'd brief a commander: what we know, what we don't, the competing explanations, and my confidence level. Then I cover where this fits on Iran's escalation ladder and the indicators to watch over the next six weeks. Chapters: Mentioned in this episode: Watch the full video version, with maps and the flight data, on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlp8SIKfNIY Members of The Briefing Room on YouTube get a companion video on state use of suicide terrorism: who becomes a suicide attacker, why states have used them, and why most stopped. https://www.youtube.com/@AttheWatersEdge-r5e/membership Substack: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg
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| Trump needs a "LAST CHAPTER" in Iran | Trita Parsi | 29 Sep 2026 | 00:30:08 | |
Trita Parsi argues Trump is looking for a "last chapter" in Iran, an ending that makes the whole war look worth it, and that diplomacy won't give him one. Iran's president flew to New York in the middle of a war to put a deal on the table, and Trump rejected it within days. Trita Parsi, co-founder and executive vice president of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, joins At the Water's Edge to explain what Iran was really offering and why both sides may be heading toward a third round of war. We discuss why Iran's UNGA proposal mirrors the collapsed MOU, and why sanctions can hurt Iran without changing its policy. Parsi puts the odds of major U.S. escalation after the midterms at 70–80%, and explains why Iran may try to strike first. We also get into what a Democratic Congress could mean for the war and for Secretary Hegseth, and his argument that Europe is already a party to the conflict. On China, he covers Chinese commercial satellite imagery, China's role in holding down oil prices, and the soaring cost of escorting tankers through the Gulf. We close on why Tehran won't make irreversible nuclear concessions to a president it doesn't trust. Chapters: Guest: Watch the full video on YouTube: At the Water's Edge At the Water's Edge is a national security and geopolitics podcast hosted by Scott Kelly, a former Green Beret and one of the last ground force commanders in Afghanistan. Views expressed by guests are their own.
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| Trump is TRAPPED in Iran's "DIPLOMACY" | Robert Pape | 28 Sep 2026 | 00:28:59 | |
Iran offered Trump a seven-day path to end the war. Robert Pape explains why taking it or refusing it both hurt him before the midterms. Iran's president came to the UN in New York with a deal on the table: a quick end to the fighting and a return of nuclear inspectors, in exchange for money up front. University of Chicago political scientist Robert Pape argues the offer is a trap. Any upfront payment from Washington costs Trump with his own base whether Iran delivers or not. Walking away keeps oil prices high heading into the midterms. Either way, Tehran wins. Host Scott Kelly, a former Green Beret, and Pape also discuss: - Why the June MOU fell apart, and why Pape says it's about the balance of power, not who broke it first - What Kissinger's "diplomacy" really meant, and what it tells us about negotiating with Iran - Pape's forecast for Pete Hegseth, and why he says this is only the beginning - Why this winter could be the real reckoning for oil, diesel, and heating fuel, with the Strategic Petroleum Reserve already drawn down - What it means if France sends forces to Saudi Arabia to counter the Houthis, as it is reportedly considering - Why a Europe pulled into the Middle East is a gift to Putin The rest of the Q&A, including whether Israel would attempt an assassination on U.S. soil and Pape's case that Netanyahu isn't running Trump's war, is available now to Briefing Room members on our YouTube channel and will be released for everyone later this week. Follow Robert Pape's analysis on The Escalation Trap: https://escalationtrap.substack.com Subscribe to At the Water's Edge on Substack: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg At the Water's Edge is a national security and geopolitics podcast hosted by Scott Kelly, a former Green Beret, taking a practitioner's view beyond the headlines. | |||
| Why Our Special Forces Are Losing the Silent Battle | 27 Sep 2026 | 01:05:53 | |
Joe Stabley is a Special Forces medic turned physician assistant — one of the most demanding career fields in the military, followed by a doctorate-adjacent civilian one. By any outward measure, he was a success. He also spent the better part of a decade managing suicidal ideation that started with a friend's death on a peacetime deployment before 9/11, and that he describes as something he still lives with today, not something he's recovered from. This conversation traces that whole arc: Jason's suicide in the Sinai when Joe was 19, two more friends lost in the years that followed, a breakdown in an ER that led him to the edge of a freeway overpass, an Adderall dependency that started as a PA-school fix, and the VA and Wounded Warrior Project support that ultimately got him here — now a member of WWP's national campaign team. Joe calls this the most raw interview he's ever given, and it shows. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline), or reach the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, press 1. This is Episode 4 of Still Here, a five-part series produced in partnership with Wounded Warrior Project for Suicide Prevention Awareness Month. Catch up with Episodes 1–3 (Zach, Lindsey, and Sam) if you haven't yet. Episode 5 — Lyndsay Tkach, WWP's Director of Mental and Brain Health Services, closing out the series — drops next week. Chapters: Learn more about Wounded Warrior Project: woundedwarriorproject.org
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| The Real Reason Saudi Arabia Is Buying 48 F-35s | 25 Sep 2026 | 00:15:58 | |
For more than a decade, Israel has been the only country in the Middle East flying a fifth-generation stealth fighter. That's about to change. The Trump administration has approved the sale of 48 F-35s and 49 engines to Saudi Arabia. Congress has 30 days to object. It almost certainly won't. But the purchase is counterintuitive. The F-35 has lost some of its luster: one was confirmed hit by radar-directed Iranian ground fire during Operation Epic Fury, and the war in the region suggests cheap drones may beat exquisite airframes. So why would Riyadh spend big on a jet whose stealth advantage has an expiration date? Scott Kelly, former Green Beret and one of the last ground force commanders in Afghanistan, argues the answer has less to do with military effectiveness than with regime survival. A drone force at scale requires a large, competent ground military, and a competent military is a coup risk. Forty-eight pilots are not. In this episode: - Why monarchies prefer air forces to armies - How the F-35 locks Saudi Arabia into the U.S. defense industrial base for decades - "Sell the gun, control the bullets": arms sales as permanent dependency - Israel's legally guaranteed Qualitative Military Edge, and why the Saudi jet will be a U.S.-locked, less capable version of Israel's F-35I - Turkey, Qatar, and the UAE waiting in line What does this mean for Israel? That's in the members-only companion episode in The Briefing Room on YouTube and in the write-up on Substack. Join the Briefing Room: https://www.youtube.com/@AttheWatersEdge-r5e
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| When the Military is Pulled into Politics | Robert Pape | 24 Sep 2026 | 00:31:28 | |
The midterms are five and a half weeks away, and Professor Robert Pape says most of the warnings are aimed at the wrong window. Political violence around elections isn't mainly about intimidating voters before Election Day. The real danger zone opens the moment the polls close and the counting starts, and it runs all the way through certification. The question is whether the losers will accept the loss. Pape joins Scott to talk about his new book, Our Own Worst Enemies: America in the Age of Violent Populism. It draws on five years of research and 20 national surveys of support for political violence in the United States. They get into the domestic escalation trap America is walking into, why the Iran war could give the president much stronger legal footing to use the National Guard or the military at home than he had in 2020, why the guardrails that held in 2020 are gone, and what service members need to understand before any order comes. Get the book: https://www.amazon.com/Our-Own-Worst-Enemies-Populism/dp/1620979586/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vs_iGQNW5qgYzmPAhBuYLw.d8JMeR0ou3Gdzt5HvoGc6u1M8nsI9WC3xo8dzqM5_Ec&dib_tag=se&keywords=9781620979587&linkCode=qs&qid=1790261780&s=books&sr=1-1
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| The Invisible War: How Gray Zone Attacks Work | fmr. NSC director F. David Diaz | 24 Sep 2026 | 00:57:42 | |
Sabotage. Arson. Drone swarms over critical infrastructure. Cyber intrusions into American water utilities. Gray zone attacks are built to look like accidents, fall between agencies, and do their damage before anyone connects the dots. Fmr. NSC Director F. David Diaz, a Marine officer turned State Department and Joint Staff strategist who now teaches at Georgetown, joins Scott to break down his new Council on Foreign Relations report on gray zone attacks against U.S. allies and partners. They cover what makes an attack "gray zone," why deniability doesn't have to last forever to work, and the campaign recognition problem. They also get into why Russia is reportedly shifting its targeting toward smaller defense companies in Europe and why no one in the U.S. government clearly owns the problem. Plus: why institutional reform tends to be "written in blood," and what government and industry can do before it comes to that. Read the CFR report, Gray Zone Attacks Against U.S. Allies and Partners: Subscribe on Substack: Note: Grayzone Advisory, sponsor of the show, is a consulting firm and not in the business of conducting gray zone operations. Learn more at grayzoneadvisory.com.
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| She Didn't Look Like a Veteran in Crisis. That Was the Problem. | 22 Sep 2026 | 00:30:19 | |
Sam Hargrove spent years being known for her smile — while privately battling a rage she couldn't explain, seven rounds of anger management, and a night she nearly drove her car into a tree. A communications specialist caught in an explosion in Iraq, Sam faced a specific kind of dismissal on top of everything else: "ain't nothing wrong with you," the running joke aimed at a "chair force" veteran who didn't fit anyone's picture of what combat trauma looks like. This conversation covers the explosion, the personality change that followed, the moment her godson saw her rage and got scared, the night in the rain that nearly ended differently, and how Wounded Warrior Project's Warrior Care Network and an inpatient program at Emory gave her the follow-up care the VA's "initial push" didn't. She's now a WWP peer leader and national campaign team member — someone other veterans call at 3 a.m. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline), or reach the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, press 1. This is Episode 3 of Still Here, a five-part series produced in partnership with Wounded Warrior Project for Suicide Prevention Awareness Month. Catch up with Episode 1 (Zach) and Episode 2 (Lindsey) if you haven't yet. Episode 4 — Joe, a fellow Green Beret whose story takes a very different turn — drops this Sunday. Chapters: Learn more about Wounded Warrior Project: woundedwarriorproject.org This episode is brought to you by Grayzone Advisory. At the Water's Edge is hosted by Scott Kelly. Follow for weekly conversations on national security, geopolitics, and the people who serve.
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| What Happens If the US Uses a Nuclear Weapon on Iran | Robert Pape | 21 Sep 2026 | 00:58:08 | |
University of Chicago professor Robert Pape (Bombing to Win, The Escalation Trap) is back for his weekly read on the U.S.-Iran conflict — and this one goes to a darker place than usual. Pape lays out how Iran is quietly becoming an oil hegemon through the Houthis and Iraqi militias, why the IRGC's threat to "shock the world" might be a signal about Pickaxe Mountain, and what actually happens — militarily, economically, and politically — if the U.S. or Israel uses a tactical nuclear weapon to try to end it. Scott and Pape also cover the 5-stage escalation trap framework, the case for offshore balancing, a possible Korean-style armistice in Ukraine, and whether recent U.S. strikes could constitute war crimes. Topics:
Follow Robert Pape's analysis at escalationtrap.substack.com. Pape returns Thursday to preview his new book, Our Own Worst Enemies. Subscribe to At the Water's Edge on Substack: substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg
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| The Houthis Just Dragged Europe Into the Iran War | 18 Sep 2026 | 00:16:17 | |
The Houthis just took the entire Red Sea coastline — and it's about to drag Europe into a war it wanted no part of. In ten days, Houthi forces captured Yemen's Red Sea coast, seized the strait's key islands, and helped force the shutdown of Saudi Arabia's emergency oil pipeline — closing the second major chokepoint Saudi Arabia needs to move crude, right after Hormuz. Brent crude is over $107 a barrel. The U.S. Navy is stretched across two flashpoints with one fleet. Saudi Arabia asked Washington for strikes and got turned down — twice — the same way Trump got turned down by the Gulf states six months ago. So Riyadh turned to an unlikely partner: Israel, now sharing intelligence with Saudi Arabia against a common enemy. And Europe, heading into winter with gas storage at its lowest level in 15 years, is watching Italy break from Brussels and send warships to the strait alone. Scott breaks down how a regional shipping crisis turns into a transatlantic energy emergency — and asks the uncomfortable question: did anyone benefit from letting this happen? Topics covered: the Houthi offensive and timeline · the oil market shock · why the U.S. Navy is tapped out · the Trump-Saudi "two no's" · Israel's quiet pivot into Saudi intelligence sharing · Europe's winter energy squeeze · Italy's unilateral naval deployment Enjoyed this one? Like, subscribe, and share it with a friend. For the full briefing deck behind this episode and more, subscribe on Substack: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg
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| The Neuroscience of Suicidal Ideation: Why the Brain Can't See a Way Out | 17 Sep 2026 | 00:29:59 | |
What's actually happening in someone's brain in the moments before they decide to end their life? Lindsey Gray, Suicide Prevention Manager at Wounded Warrior Project, breaks down the neuroscience — why the prefrontal cortex goes offline, why the amygdala floods the system with threat signals, and why suicide isn't a character failure but, as she puts it, "a breakdown in the brain." This conversation covers the gradient from passive ideation to active planning, a counterintuitive finding on combat exposure and resilience, why alcohol lowers the barrier between thinking about suicide and acting on it, and the ASIST model — the actual evidence-based framework for intervening with someone in crisis. Scott also shares the story of Dan, a soldier under his command, and what he wishes he'd known then. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline), or reach the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, press 1. This is Episode 2 of Still Here, a five-part series produced in partnership with Wounded Warrior Project for Suicide Prevention Awareness Month. If you haven't heard Episode 1 — Zach Tidwell's story — start there. Episode 3 drops next week. Chapters: Learn more about Wounded Warrior Project: woundedwarriorproject.org This episode is brought to you by Grayzone Advisory. At the Water's Edge is hosted by Scott Kelly. Follow for weekly conversations on national security, geopolitics, and the people who serve.
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| October 7 Was “A Reenactment,” Not a Rupture | Robert Malley | 14 Sep 2026 | 00:58:58 | |
Rob Malley has spent three decades inside the peace process he now argues was never built to succeed. He negotiated at Camp David under President Clinton, led Obama's Iran nuclear negotiations that produced the JCPOA, served as Biden's Special Envoy for Iran, and ran the International Crisis Group. He's now a Senior Fellow and Lecturer at Yale's Jackson School and co-author, with Hussein Agha, of Tomorrow Is Yesterday: Life, Death, and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel/Palestine. In this conversation, Scott and Malley cover:
More from At the Water's Edge: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg Malley's book, Tomorrow Is Yesterday, is out now. https://www.amazon.com/Tomorrow-Yesterday-Pursuit-Israel-Palestine/dp/0374617120/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xXGA2LVaN84oK2HTqL0ZafM_ffC2qb0JcTzYRXwxYYruV7giWAcghjS_mCTijJO7ifqpr_rfyp9RaWXbHb9QEXkJ_WN8If_d9vDNoEVAz8vBZHr9CnQYeBZddsj59cPDMEFx7wja1QjVF0PPUm-jlHP8t7otOxcvsDbnY8EFaKb1_da3s0oLUHaY6qTl4OmtpFoZEobh1gjLsUweCGw9VoooRbweo-geXkoVnAuFQR4.IEQ9K_vB2pz9c_3zhVHO8UTil5XOFXOY3VjNKp-cC5c&dib_tag=se&hvadid=693803539913&hvdev=c&hvexpln=67&hvlocphy=9005070&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=3083797136747453616--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3083797136747453616&hvtargid=kwd-2443396325718&hydadcr=22537_13531293&keywords=robert+malley+book&mcid=cd77b3f36d583266b3b283bcc5466f73&qid=1789409486&sr=8-1
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| Iran Now Controls the Red Sea's Only Oil Bypass | Robert Pape | 13 Sep 2026 | 00:54:03 | |
The Houthis have seized control of the Red Sea and the Bab el-Mandeb Strait — and with the US Navy already stretched thin in the Strait of Hormuz, there's no clear path to reopening it. Professor Robert Pape returns to break down how we got here: Iran's methodical, multi-pronged campaign to choke off all three of the world's remaining oil buffers (the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve, Chinese import capacity, and now the Red Sea), and why he believes this is playing out exactly as he predicted back in June. In this episode:
Got a question for Professor Pape? Send it to [askrobertpape@gmail.com] and we may cover it in a future episode. More analysis at our Substack: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg
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| Bin Laden Lost the War. America is Still Paying the Price | 11 Sep 2026 | 00:26:38 | |
Twenty-five years after 9/11, one question still doesn't have a clean answer: did Osama bin Laden actually win? In this solo episode, Scott Kelly goes goal-by-goal through what bin Laden said he wanted — U.S. troops out of Saudi Arabia, an end to support for Israel, toppled Arab regimes, a global caliphate, and an America bled into bankruptcy — and scores each one against what actually happened over the next 25 years. Then he traces the real cost of the response: the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and against ISIS, the $12.9 trillion bill, the institutions built in the aftermath (the DNI, the AUMF, an unaccountable executive war power), and how the current war with Iran might be finishing what bin Laden started — or giving a dead terrorist too much credit for America's own choices. What's covered:
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| He Wanted to Die. Surviving Changed Everything | 10 Sep 2026 | 00:58:50 | |
Zach Tidwell enlisted in the Marine Corps wanting to go to war — and missed it. What followed was an affair, a traumatic brain injury, and a depression he refused to talk about, convinced he could just decide his way through it the same way he'd decided his way through infantry training. In March 2019, that ended with a suicide attempt that left him blind and partially deaf. In this conversation, Zach walks through all of it: the attempt itself, waking up in the hospital, a second wave of depression a year later that he handled differently, a two-and-a-half-year battle with alcoholism, a diagnosis of Huntington's disease, and how he's since built a life that includes jiu-jitsu, competitive marksmanship, a software company, and a memoir. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline), or reach the Veterans Crisis Line at 988, press 1. This is Episode 1 of Still Here, a five-part series produced in partnership with Wounded Warrior Project for Suicide Prevention Awareness Month. Episode 2 — Lindsey Gray, WWP's Suicide Prevention Manager, on the brain science behind these choices — drops next week. Chapters: Learn more about Wounded Warrior Project: woundedwarriorproject.org This episode is brought to you by Grayzone Advisory. At the Water's Edge is hosted by Scott Kelly. Follow for weekly conversations on national security, geopolitics, and the people who serve.
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| The Iran War Exposed America’s Real Weakness | Sean O’Keefe | 08 Sep 2026 | 00:58:02 | |
Sean O'Keefe returns for his third appearance on the show — and this time, he's not pulling punches. Three months into the war with Iran, the former Secretary of the Navy and NASA Administrator makes the case that nobody in Washington can articulate what winning actually looks like. Not the White House, not the Pentagon, not the people who sent troops into the region in the first place. We go deep on what's actually changed since this conflict started: allies quietly pulling out of joint exercises, a "blockade to nowhere" in the Strait of Hormuz, and a trade war with Canada that looks a lot like a distraction from a war we can't define the objective of. O'Keefe and I go back and forth on whether tariffs make sense as an industrial security play, whether nuclear non-proliferation is even a realistic policy goal anymore, and whether NATO was ever really about shared values or just shared fear of Russia. In this episode:
Sean O'Keefe served as Secretary of the Navy and Administrator of NASA, and has spent decades at the intersection of national security policy and public administration. This is his third time on the show. 🎙️ New episodes every week. Subscribe wherever you listen, and find the full write-up and more analysis at atthewatersedge.org.
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| A Culture of Silence: The Real Crisis Behind the Army Secretary’s Exit | 04 Sep 2026 | 00:20:37 | |
Dan Driscoll just resigned as Army Secretary after eighteen months — the shortest tenure in the role's modern history. That alone is a story. But he's the latest name on a list of more than 80 senior military leaders forced out or sidelined since January 2025, a purge with no precedent in the post-WWII era. This week, I connect Driscoll's exit to the Washington Post's report on four-star commands refusing to sign off on the Secretary of Defense's war plans, the collapsing trust inside the Pentagon's command climate, and a defense industrial base that still can't field a new weapon system fast enough to matter. Solo breakdown, no guest — just the pattern, laid out plainly. Get the full slide deck behind this episode on Substack: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg | |||
| Iran Has Put America in a No-Win Scenario | Robert Pape | 01 Sep 2026 | 00:44:15 | |
Six months into the Iran war, the exchange of fire over the Strait of Hormuz just restarted. Professor Robert Pape returns to break down why the U.S. strike on Larak Island and Iran's retaliation against Jordan (and reportedly the UAE) aren't tit-for-tat — they're a denial strategy straight out of his book Bombing to Win. We cover the Army Secretary's resignation, the 82nd Airborne's extended deployment, whether a division-level operation into Iran is still physically feasible, and what the November 3rd–January 3rd window could mean for how this war plays out. Read Pape's real-time analysis at The Escalation Trap (escalationtrap.substack.com) and send questions for his audience Q&A to askrobertpape@gmail.com.
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| The 82nd Airborne Just Revealed How Long This War Could Last | 31 Aug 2026 | 00:14:43 | |
We're Not Leaving: What the 82nd Airborne's Year-Long Extension Tells Us About the Iran War The 82nd Airborne Division exists to deploy anywhere in the world within 18 hours. This week, its command team told paratrooper families their CENTCOM deployment is extending to a full year — and buried in that letter is the clearest signal yet of how long the United States expects to stay engaged with Iran. In this solo breakdown, Scott walks through the letter unit by unit — Division Headquarters, DIVARTY, the sustainment brigade, an air defense battalion, and a brigade combat team — and explains what each one's presence in theater actually signals about the mission, as distinct from what's just routine rotation. Topics covered in this episode:
This is a practitioner's read on a story most outlets covered as a personnel-policy footnote. It isn't. At the Water's Edge is a national security and geopolitics podcast that looks for insights beyond the headlines. Newsletter: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg
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| Trump's Trade War Could Starve His Own War Machine | 28 Aug 2026 | 00:18:14 | |
Trump just invoked a Depression-era tariff statute that's never been used at this scale — against the one G7 ally that's a sole-source supplier for the U.S. Army's artillery propellant and a critical link in the F-35 supply chain. Scott breaks down the actual USMCA timeline, which of the administration's five stated justifications for the trade war actually holds up, and why the timing — six months into the Iran war, with the Pentagon pushing contractors to surge munitions production — makes this one of the more strategically incoherent fights Washington could pick right now. | |||
| Trump’s Economic D-Day Will Backfire | Robert Pape | 24 Aug 2026 | 00:39:44 | |
The ceasefire MOU with Iran has expired, and Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has launched what he's calling an "economic D-Day" — the same day Iran's new National Security Council chief, Mohsen Rezaei, threatened to shut the Strait of Hormuz to any nation that cooperates with US sanctions. Professor Robert Pape returns to the show with the historical argument he's been building for months: since World War One, economic pressure has never once ended a major war on its own. Not Germany, not Japan, not Iraq, not Iran to date. It takes extraordinary military force layered on top — and the cases where policymakers convinced themselves otherwise are the cases that produced the worst blowback, including the oil embargo that pushed Japan toward Pearl Harbor. This episode breaks down what the new sanctions package can realistically accomplish, why Iran's 3,600-mile land border makes this a harder problem than any prior sanctions regime, and what Saudi Arabia's new defense pact with Turkey and Pakistan signals about the region's confidence in Washington.
🔗 Robert Pape's live briefing tonight + full memo: escalationtrap.substack.com
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| Washington Is Watching. Iran Is Moving. | Robert Pape | 10 Aug 2026 | 00:44:07 | |
Iran has moved from survival to ambition to hard power — and it's reshaping the balance of power in the Middle East while Washington stays on the sidelines. University of Chicago Professor Robert Pape returns for his weekly real-time breakdown of the U.S.-Iran conflict. This week: a tentative Iran-Oman deal on Strait of Hormuz traffic, Iran's new list of demands to reopen it, two overlapping defense coalitions forming across the Gulf and Red Sea, and Pape's enrichment-curve analysis on how close Iran actually is to a nuclear weapon — and why he says U.S. policy is teaching them to build one. In this episode: – The Iran-Oman Strait agreement and Iran's demands to reopen Hormuz – The Mecca joint defense pact between Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan – The Houthi war on Saudi oil and Iran's "resistance security belt" strategy – Why Gulf states are drifting out of America's orbit – Pape's case for why Iran is on track to become the fourth global power – The path to $6 gas, and why every major power in this conflict keeps walking into its own escalation trap – Audience questions on Europe's role and the Obama-era nuclear deal counterfactual Got a question for Prof. Pape? Send it to askrobertpape@gmail.com for a shot at a future episode. Robert Pape is a Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago and author of The Escalation Trap on Substack: escalationtrap.substack.com More analysis every week on the Substack: substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg Need geopolitical risk analysis for your organization? grayzoneadvisory.com | |||
| "This Is Strategic Paralysis" | Robert Pape on the Power Vacuum in the Persian Gulf | 03 Aug 2026 | 00:44:45 | |
This is the latest episode in The Escalation Trap, an ongoing series with Robert Pape of the University of Chicago tracking the war with Iran in real time — and the first episode where audience questions go directly to Pape on air. We open with what's actually known about the pause in strikes and the low-level Iran-Oman talks over Hormuz transit fees, which Pape argues is not a sign of progress but of strategic paralysis: a White House caught between an air campaign that hasn't achieved its goals and a negotiated path that means conceding to Iran's steadily expanding demands. Pape connects this to a larger thesis — that American dominance in the Persian Gulf, essentially unchallenged since the 1991 Gulf War, is giving way to a power vacuum that regional actors are moving to fill. He ties this directly to the Minnesota water-system cyberattacks, now assessed by U.S. intelligence as likely Iranian in origin, which he characterizes as a calibrated test of American resolve. He closes with his "nightmare scenario" for the next two months of the war, built around economic pressure, political necessity, and the risk of an Iranian response that reaches beyond the region. In our first audience Q&A segment, we put listener questions to Pape directly: whether anything could stop Iran from targeting Gulf desalination infrastructure serving 66 million people, whether a U.S. land blockade on Iran is realistically achievable, and whether the war in Ukraine and the war with Iran could become linked through Caspian Sea shipping. Robert Pape publishes ongoing frameworks and updates on this war at The Escalation Trap: https://escalationtrap.substack.com/
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| Former Acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs: “The Colossus Is Awake” | 30 Jul 2026 | 01:02:36 | |
America Can't Build Weapons Fast Enough | The Pentagon's Former Acting Chairman Explains Why Admiral Chris Grady (Ret.) spent over 40 years in the Navy, commanded at every level from ship to fleet, and served as Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff — including a stretch as Acting Chairman during one of the most chaotic weeks in recent Pentagon history. Now retired and serving as a Distinguished Senior Fellow at Business Executives for National Security (BENS), he joins the show to break down why America's defense industrial base can't keep pace with modern conflict, and what it would actually take to fix it. We cover his own framework for how the character of war is changing: the shift from platform-centric to system-centric thinking, why "attritable mass" is rewriting the cost-exchange math of modern combat, why the electromagnetic spectrum is now a contested warfighting domain in its own right, and why the industrial base itself has become a tool of deterrence. Along the way: the 155mm shell shortage, the cost-exchange problem of cheap drones against expensive interceptors, why the U.S. still hasn't fielded a real answer to 1991's Blue Force Tracker, and the workforce gap behind it all, including why a welder can out-earn a lot of college grads. Read Adm. Grady's article, "The Future of War," on The BENS Lens: https://thebenslens.substack.com/p/the-future-of-war
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| You Can’t Bomb Iran Into Surrender | Robert Pape | 29 Jul 2026 | 01:09:03 | |
This is the latest episode in The Escalation Trap, an ongoing series with Robert Pape of the University of Chicago tracking the war with Iran in real time. Pape recorded this episode without power of his own — tornadoes had just knocked out electricity across the south side of Chicago — and turns his own blackout into a working case study for what it would actually mean for the U.S. to take down Iran's electric grid. We walk through the difference between hitting a grid's transformers and hitting its generator halls, why one is fixed in days and the other takes months, and what a real months-long blackout does to a city of ten million people: food spoilage, water pressure collapse, hospitals losing dialysis and surgical capacity, and no air conditioning in near-100-degree heat. Pape explains why that level of damage — what he calls "medium" civilian punishment — tends to produce revenge rather than surrender, drawing on his historical research into World War II bombing campaigns and Pearl Harbor, and where the ceiling actually sits before a population is too devastated to seek payback. From there we turn to the drone hunt: the scale problem behind suppressing Iran's Shaheed arsenal, why the search area is one and a half times the size of California, and why Pape doesn't believe the Strait of Hormuz reopens before the midterms. We close on the political clock both Washington and Tehran are racing against, and why Pape thinks Iran's actual target has never been our bases in the Gulf — it's the presidency itself. Robert Pape publishes ongoing frameworks and updates on this war at The Escalation Trap: https://escalationtrap.substack.com/
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| This Should Be Illegal. It's Not | 23 Jul 2026 | 00:46:13 | |
Cities and towns across America are signing non-disclosure agreements with corporations — and in some cases, officials aren't even allowed to tell the public an NDA exists. Investigative journalist Miranda Spivack joins the show to explain how local government secrecy became a national security issue. Miranda spent twenty years at The Washington Post covering state and local government. Her new book, Backroom Deals in Our Backyards: How Government Secrecy Harms Our Communities and the Local Heroes Fighting Back (The New Press), documents how "accidental activists" across the country have fought back against poisoned water, toxic firefighter gear, and opaque data center deals. We cover why data centers are driving a wave of secret NDAs between corporations and local officials, the Hoosick Falls, NY water contamination case, what happened when Amazon went hunting for its second headquarters, why the collapse of local news makes all of this harder to catch, and how local government secrecy connects to national power and America's data infrastructure race. Guest: Miranda S. Spivack — veteran journalist, former Washington Post editor/reporter, Fulbright Scholar, and author of Backroom Deals in Our Backyards (The New Press, 2025). Book: available from The New Press with discount code BACKROOM30, or at your local bookstore and bookshop.org
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| The War Is Spiraling | Robert Pape on Iran and the Escalation Trap | 21 Jul 2026 | 00:23:18 | |
The war with Iran has entered what Robert Pape, Professor at the University of Chicago, calls the "spiral phase" — a dynamic that's both vertical, with harsher strikes on both sides, and horizontal, with the Red Sea now pulled into the conflict via a Houthi blockade. This week brings the death of three more U.S. service members, bringing the total to 17, a bombing campaign now targeting Iranian civilian infrastructure at scale, a reinstated naval blockade, and strikes on multiple Kuwaiti desalination plants — cutting off water that millions of people depend on, with no backup supply. We cover why Pape believes he's been modeling this exact war for twenty years, and why he traces its real starting point to the bombing of the Fordow enrichment facility in June 2025, not the more commonly cited February 2026 date. We discuss new intelligence around a facility Pape refers to as "Pickaxe Mountain" and concerns about uranium enrichment moving toward weapons-grade levels, why Pape argues that neither Trump nor Iran actually controls the outcome of this war — commercial shipping companies do — and the parallel Pape draws between Trump's political calculus now and Lyndon Johnson's decision-making during Vietnam. Pape publishes ongoing analysis of the conflict in his Substack, The Escalation Trap: https://escalationtrap.substack.com/ For more analysis on this conflict, subscribe to the At the Water's Edge Substack: https://substack.com/@scottatthewatersedgeorg This is a weekly recurring conversation tracking the Iran war in real time. New episodes drop every week.
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| "Iran's Supreme Leader Just Called for Attacks on Americans Worldwide" | Robert Pape | 13 Jul 2026 | 00:31:56 | |
The war with Iran is back on, and according to Robert Pape, Professor at the University of Chicago, we are now knocking on the door of the most dangerous stage of the conflict yet. This week, Pape walks through why Iran's Supreme Leader has issued a call for revenge attacks on Americans anywhere in the world, why that statement closely parallels the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie three decades ago, and why he believes the U.S. and Iran are both boxed into an escalation neither side can easily walk back from. We cover why Pape believes punishment campaigns and the recently failed MOU have left Trump with few remaining off-ramps, why Pape expects the coming wave of violence to be driven by inspired rather than centrally directed attackers, and the historical parallel Pape draws between Trump's current position and Imperial Japan's decision to attack Pearl Harbor. We also discuss why Pape believes a nuclear strike remains unlikely in the near term, and why he has been warning for months that this war could extend well into 2027. Pape publishes ongoing analysis of the conflict in his Substack, The Escalation Trap: https://escalationtrap.substack.com/ This is a weekly recurring conversation tracking the Iran war in real time. New episodes drop every week. | |||
| Joe Kent: 'Israel Drove This Decision, Not Us' | 09 Jul 2026 | 01:08:56 | |
Joe Kent spent 21 years in Army Special Forces and the CIA before becoming President Trump's Director of the National Counterterrorism Center — then walked away from it, resigning in protest over the war with Iran. This week I sit down with him to talk about what he saw from inside the administration in the weeks before he quit, why he believes Israel drove the decision to strike, and what it actually looks like to try to "coach up" a president who's stopped listening. We get into the collapse of the MOU, whether the US has any leverage left in the Strait of Hormuz, and why he thinks the all-volunteer force has quietly severed the military from the country it defends. We also cover ground most of his interviews haven't: whether some form of compulsory service is the only real check left on endless wars, and whether 2028 opens the door to a genuine third party built around opposition to foreign intervention. Joe Kent: 21 years in Special Operations (75th Ranger Regiment, 5th Special Forces Group), CIA paramilitary officer, and former Director of the National Counterterrorism Center. Follow him at x.com/joekent16jan19. At the Water's Edge is a weekly conversation with practitioners and analysts on national security and geopolitics, hosted by a former Green Beret. New episodes every week
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| Iran's Funeral Just Changed the War | Robert Pape's Warning to Washington | 06 Jul 2026 | 00:35:43 | |
Just days after President Trump's Fourth of July weekend, Iran held a massive funeral for its slain leadership — and millions turned out. In this week's installment of our ongoing series on the war with Iran, Robert Pape, Professor at the University of Chicago and one of the leading scholars on coercion, airpower, and political violence, argues that the funeral marks a turning point that has nothing to do with capability and everything to do with will. Pape lays out his case that four and a half months of decapitation strikes, blockade, and bombing have not broken Iranian public resolve — and why that matters for the ongoing negotiations set for July 11th. We cover Kuwait and Bahrain's complaint to the UN Security Council, why Iran is reportedly turning down financial offers from Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, the risk of Washington falling into an "echo chamber" on Iran policy, and why Pape believes pressure could build toward further escalation as soon as August. Pape publishes ongoing analysis of the conflict in his Substack, The Escalation Trap: https://escalationtrap.substack.com/ This is a weekly recurring conversation tracking the Iran war in real time. New episodes drop every week.
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| Iran Is Not Deterred | Robert Pape on the Escalation Trap | 29 Jun 2026 | 00:30:06 | |
This is the latest episode in The Escalation Trap, an ongoing series with Robert Pape of the University of Chicago tracking the war involving the United States, Israel, and Iran in real time. After new strikes in the Strait of Hormuz, U.S. bombing inside Iran, Iranian missile attacks on U.S. bases in Kuwait and Bahrain, and renewed talk of a ceasefire, Pape argues that the conflict is not ending. Instead, we are in the middle game of the escalation trap. That means periods of violence followed by pauses — not a durable ceasefire. Pape explains why Iran has not been deterred by assassination, bombing, blockade pressure, or threats. Instead, Iran may be entering a period of maximum coercive leverage as oil inventories draw down and pressure grows on the global economy. We also discuss Iran’s nuclear trajectory, the risks facing U.S. forces in the Gulf, the role of Lebanon and the Red Sea, Israel’s future security position, and why the timing of Iran’s nuclear decision may depend less on politics and more on feasibility.
The war did not end. The ceasefire is not holding in any meaningful strategic sense. And Iran may be using this phase of the conflict to increase leverage, pressure U.S. forces, and move closer to the kind of regional power position Pape has warned about throughout this series. Escalation Trap Substack: https://escalationtrap.substack.com At the Water’s Edge delivers practitioner-level insight into national security and geopolitics — bridging academic theory with how conflicts actually unfold in the real world. In this episode:Key takeaway:Follow Robert Pape’s work:About the show: | |||
| The Future of PTSD Treatment Is Already Here. Why Can’t Veterans Access It? | 25 Jun 2026 | 01:29:21 | |
In the final episode of our PTSD series, Scott speaks with Dr. Jessica Maples Keller of Emory University about the future of psychedelic-assisted therapy for PTSD. | |||
| The Deal Is Signed. The War Isn’t Over. | Robert Pape on Iran | 22 Jun 2026 | 00:31:57 | |
This is the latest episode in The Escalation Trap, an ongoing series with Robert Pape of the University of Chicago tracking the war with Iran in real time. The U.S. and Iran have signed a memorandum of understanding. But according to Pape, that does not mean the war is over. Instead, the battlefield may be shifting to the negotiations themselves. Pape argues that while the U.S. and financial markets may view the agreement through a business-deal lens — oil flows, payments, stability, and costs — Iran may be approaching the negotiations through a balance-of-power lens. The question is not simply what the deal says. The question is whether the deal locks in a new regional balance of power. In this episode, we discuss what the MOU means, why Hormuz remains central, how Iran may use negotiations to gain leverage, what Hezbollah and Lebanon mean to Iran’s regional strategy, and why Israel may now face a far more difficult strategic environment.
A deal may stop the immediate shooting. But if the agreement shifts power toward Iran, the conflict may simply be entering a new phase. The war may not be ending. It may be moving to the negotiating table. New episodes released weekly as the conflict evolves. Escalation Trap Substack: https://escalationtrap.substack.com At the Water’s Edge delivers practitioner-level insight into national security and geopolitics — bridging academic theory with how conflicts actually unfold in the real world. In this episode:Key takeaway:Follow the series:Follow Robert Pape’s work:About the show: | |||
| Why Veterans Are Going Overseas for Psychedelics | PTSD Part 2 | 17 Jun 2026 | 00:51:33 | |
Why Veterans Are Going Overseas for Psychedelics In part two of our PTSD series, Scott speaks with Jesse Gould, founder of the Heroic Hearts Project and a former Army Ranger from the 75th Ranger Regiment, about why some veterans are seeking psychedelic-assisted treatment outside the traditional U.S. medical system. Jesse shares his own story of leaving the military, struggling with PTSD, anxiety, depression, alcohol misuse, and hypervigilance, and eventually traveling to Peru for ayahuasca after feeling that the available treatment options were not enough. That experience led him to launch Heroic Hearts Project, a nonprofit helping veterans access legal psychedelic-assisted programs while emphasizing preparation, safety, screening, and integration. This conversation explores the promise, risk, controversy, and policy questions surrounding psychedelic treatment for veterans. It is not a discussion about miracle cures. It is about what happens when veterans run out of options, why many are looking beyond the VA, and whether the American medical system is ready for what may be coming next. Learn more about Heroic Hearts Project: Topics discussed: Note: This episode is for informational purposes only and is not medical advice. Anyone considering treatment for PTSD or other mental health conditions should consult qualified medical professionals.
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| A Deal Doesn’t End This War | Robert Pape on Iran | 15 Jun 2026 | 00:34:04 | |
This is the latest episode in The Escalation Trap, an ongoing series with Robert Pape of the University of Chicago tracking the war with Iran in real time. Reports suggest the U.S. and Iran may be moving toward a deal. But Pape argues that a signing ceremony, memorandum, or public claim of victory does not necessarily mean the war is ending. For frontline U.S. forces in CENTCOM and the Gulf, the real signal is not diplomatic language. The real signal is whether U.S. forces physically leave the region. Until ships, aircraft, Marines, ground forces, tanker support, and carrier groups are actually withdrawn, the escalation trap remains in place. In this episode, we discuss what a possible agreement really means, why the 60-day negotiation window could increase Iran’s leverage, how oil inventories and energy markets affect escalation risk, and why Israel may become more isolated as Gulf states hedge toward Iran.
A deal is not the off-ramp unless the force posture changes. If U.S. forces remain in the Gulf, the war is not over. New episodes released weekly as the conflict evolves. At the Water’s Edge delivers practitioner-level insight into national security and geopolitics — bridging academic theory with how conflicts actually unfold in the real world. In this episode:Key takeaway:Follow the series:About the show: | |||
| Surviving War Was Only the Beginning | PTSD Part 1 | 11 Jun 2026 | 01:07:25 | |
Surviving war is only the beginning for many veterans. In Part 1 of this series on post-traumatic stress disorder, At the Water’s Edge examines what PTSD is, why it is so often misunderstood, why many veterans wait years before receiving care, and what effective treatment can look like. This episode features three voices from Wounded Warrior Project: Dr. Erin Fletcher, Director of Warrior Care Network; Ryan Kules, an Iraq veteran who lost an arm and a leg in an IED attack and now leads Project Odyssey; and John Eaton, Vice President for Complex Care. Together, they explain how trauma affects the brain and body, why stigma and system friction keep veterans from care, how evidence-based treatment works, and why recovery is possible. Before this series turns to psychedelic medicine and the future of PTSD treatment, we start with the foundation: PTSD is real, it is treatable, and getting care can change a veteran’s life.
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| Iran Is No Longer Just Surviving | Robert Pape on the Escalation Trap | 08 Jun 2026 | 00:33:26 | |
This is the latest episode in The Escalation Trap, an ongoing series with Robert Pape of the University of Chicago tracking the war with Iran in real time. After 100 days of war, Pape argues that the conflict is no longer in its opening phase — but it is nowhere near over. Instead, the war has entered what he calls the middle of the escalation trap: a grinding phase where weeks of boredom can be punctuated by hours of terror. The key shift, according to Pape, is that Iran is no longer just trying to survive. Its ambitions are growing. In this episode, we discuss how Iran may be moving from survival toward dominance in the Persian Gulf, what that means for U.S. forces in the region, why the Red Sea could become the next major pressure point, and how financial markets may be underestimating geopolitical risk.
The longer this war continues, the more Iran’s ambitions may expand. This is no longer just about whether Iran survives. It is about what Iran may become if the escalation trap continues. New episodes released weekly as the conflict evolves. At the Water’s Edge delivers practitioner-level insight into national security and geopolitics — bridging academic theory with how conflicts actually unfold in the real world. In this episode:Key takeaway:Follow the series:About the show: | |||
| Trump Thought Iran Would Collapse. He Was Wrong. | Trita Parsi | 05 Jun 2026 | 00:46:14 | |
President Trump thought Iran would collapse quickly. According to Dr. Trita Parsi, that assumption may be one of the central miscalculations that pulled the United States deeper into war. In this episode of At the Water’s Edge, Scott Kelly speaks with Dr. Trita Parsi, co-founder and Executive Vice President of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, about the war with Iran, the limits of American coercion, and what a realistic diplomatic off-ramp would require. They discuss why Iran has proven more resilient than Washington expected, where Tehran may have miscalculated, how the U.S. policy process broke down, and why military superiority does not always translate into political control. The conversation also covers the Abraham Accords, Gaza, U.S. military presence in the Middle East, sanctions relief, and whether international humanitarian law can survive in a multipolar world. This is a practitioner-focused conversation about strategy, escalation, diplomacy, and the future of American power. Find more from Trita Parsi here: Trita Parsi’s Substack: https://tritaparsi.substack.com/
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| Bombing and Talking at the Same Time | Robert Pape on Iran and the Escalation Trap | 02 Jun 2026 | 00:28:17 | |
This is the latest episode in The Escalation Trap, an ongoing series with Robert Pape of the University of Chicago tracking the war with Iran in real time. After two weeks of ceasefire claims, strikes, and renewed negotiations, Pape argues that the conflict is not moving toward real stability. Instead, the U.S. and Iran may be entering what he calls a new era of instability. Even if a memorandum of understanding is signed, the underlying issues remain unresolved: nuclear enrichment, Iran’s stockpiles, control of the Strait of Hormuz, oil prices, and the U.S. military presence in the Gulf. Pape also warns that diplomacy does not necessarily mean the danger has passed. The U.S. has a long history of bombing and talking at the same time, from Vietnam to Bosnia, and troops in the region should not assume negotiations mean escalation is off the table.
A deal is not the same thing as stability. Unless the underlying force posture changes, the war may remain trapped in a cycle of negotiations, skirmishes, oil pressure, and escalation. New episodes released weekly as the conflict evolves. At the Water’s Edge delivers practitioner-level insight into national security and geopolitics — bridging academic theory with how conflicts actually unfold in the real world. In this episode:Key takeaway:Follow the series:About the show: | |||
| Former NASA Chief: America Has Lost the Meaning of Power | Iran, Artemis II & U.S. Decline | 21 May 2026 | 01:05:38 | |
Former NASA Administrator and Secretary of the Navy Sean O’Keefe returns to At the Water’s Edge for a conversation about American power, strategy, space, war, and national identity. At a moment when the United States is confronting conflict with Iran while also advancing the Artemis program, O’Keefe explores a deeper question: what actually makes America powerful? Drawing on decades of leadership across NASA, the Navy, the Office of Management and Budget, academia, and the private sector, O’Keefe discusses why Artemis matters beyond symbolism, how commercial space is changing the future of exploration, what Ukraine’s battlefield innovation reveals about the future of war, and why America’s alliances and credibility may be among its greatest strategic assets. The conversation also examines the limits of military power, the danger of unclear objectives, the challenge of defense procurement, and whether the United States can still mobilize around ambitious national missions. This is a conversation about more than Iran, NASA, or the Moon. It is about whether America still understands the sources of its own power.
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| The War That Ends American Dominance | Robert Pape on Iran | 19 May 2026 | 00:36:25 | |
The war with Iran may be more than another crisis in the Middle East. In this latest installment of The Escalation Trap, Robert Pape argues that the conflict is becoming a hinge event — almost the inverse of the 1991 Gulf War. Instead of demonstrating American military dominance, this war may be revealing the limits of U.S. power when tactical military strength no longer produces strategic outcomes. This conversation moves beyond the Gulf to examine what the war means for China, Taiwan, Europe, NATO, India, and the future of American influence. Pape explains why allies are beginning to rethink their assumptions, why America’s security umbrella may be weakening, and why this conflict could accelerate a broader shift in the global order. In this episode:
Key takeaway: At the Water’s Edge delivers practitioner-level insight into national security and geopolitics, bridging academic theory with how conflict unfolds in the real world.
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| The Danger Zone Is Here | Robert Pape on Iran, Nuclear Weapons, and the Escalation Trap | 12 May 2026 | 00:36:30 | |
This is the latest episode in The Escalation Trap, an ongoing series with Robert Pape of the University of Chicago tracking the war with Iran in real time. Pape argues that the conflict has now entered the true danger zone. The negotiation track, he says, may be effectively dead for weeks or months — not because talks are impossible, but because the core issues at stake are zero-sum. Unlike a real estate deal, international politics has no court that can enforce an agreement. When the issues involve nuclear weapons, sovereignty, and control of the Strait of Hormuz, every concession can make a state more vulnerable in the next round.
The danger is not just that negotiations fail. The danger is that each failed negotiation makes escalation look more like the only remaining option. New episodes released weekly as the conflict evolves. At the Water’s Edge delivers practitioner-level insight into national security and geopolitics — bridging academic theory with how conflicts actually unfold in the real world. In this episode:Key takeaway:Follow the series:About the show: | |||
| Former NSC Official: The Iran War Exposed America’s Broken Strategy | Negah Angha | 07 May 2026 | 00:48:44 | |
Former State Department senior advisor and National Security Council official Negah Angha joins At the Water’s Edge to discuss what the war with Iran reveals about American strategy, alliances, and decision-making. Angha explains how major national security decisions are supposed to move through the U.S. government, why inconsistent objectives and poor consultation with allies can weaken American credibility, and how Iran’s pressure on the Strait of Hormuz has exposed vulnerabilities in the global economy. The conversation also covers low-cost drones, the limits of the U.S. defense industrial base, Congress’s role in war powers, the lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan, and the complicated role of diaspora communities in U.S. foreign policy. This episode is about more than Iran. It is a broader look at whether the American national security system can still align military power, diplomacy, alliances, public support, and long-term strategy in a crisis that moves faster than Washington’s bureaucracy.
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