Explore every episode of the podcast At Sea with Justin McRoberts
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jubileee 2024 - Abe Cho | 08 Oct 2024 | 00:40:43 | |
Episode Notes: Introduction by Justin McRoberts:
Balancing Ministry and Personal Life:
Defining Home and Navigating Cultural Identity:
Justice and Reconciliation:
Importance of Cities in the Context of Faith:
Challenges and Opportunities for the Western Church:
Closing Reflections:
Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Rethinking Sabbath Rest and the Misuse of Deconstruction | 20 Sep 2024 | 00:15:41 | |
Episode Notes: Introduction:
Sabbath-Keeping:
Deconstruction Misuse:
Closing Remarks:
Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Sacred Strides Chapter 12 - I'm Not Running to Win | 04 Apr 2024 | 00:32:54 | |
In this episode, Justin McRoberts and Dan Portnoy discuss Chapter 12 of the book 'Sacred Strides' titled 'I'm Not Running to Win.' They explore the importance of recognizing the dangers of exhaustion in ministry and the need for self-care. They highlight the impact of urgency and importance on mental health and the importance of prioritizing health and wellbeing. The conversation concludes with a prayer emphasizing the need to never sacrifice one's health on the altar of productivity. Takeaways
Chapters 00:0 0 Introduction 02:46 Chapter 12: I'm Not Running to Win 06:18 The Urgency of Important Work 09:10 Recognizing the Importance of Self-Care 13:26 The Dangers of Exhaustion in Ministry 23:32 The Impact of Exhaustion on Mental Health 27:45 The Choice Between Important Work and Soul 31:17 Prayer: May I Never Sacrifice My Health 32:43 Conclusion Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Ben Higgins | 05 Aug 2021 | 00:38:30 | |
I actually never watched the Batchelor. And that’s not a thing I say with pride or any sense of superiority. I honestly just don’t watch a lot of TV and haven’t since I was about 12, when shows like “The A-Team” and “Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom” took up space on the probably 20 networks available. So, when I connected with Ben Higgins on Twitter, I didn’t exactly know why a few of my online friends freaked out a bit. See, while I came to find out Ben was a “celebrity” in the most “celebrity” of ways, having done reality TV like The Bachelor, I found a man who wasn’t resting on the random success that such a thing offers; I found in him someone who was looking at where he was, the influence he had on hand and asking the question “What can I make with this?”
I think you’ll enjoy it, too. Check it out. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Simone Biles, Athletics and Whole Health | 29 Jul 2021 | 00:04:59 | |
Stephen Pressfield calls it “Resistance.” A number of religious traditions call it “sin.” But regardless of the name folks apply to it, it seems to me that we generally share, cross-culturally and throughout history, a sense and a lament that things don’t work out perfectly; that things fall apart and that plans don’t always go in order. In that light, part of what that means in my personal history is that planning for success means planning for (or at the very least be prepared for) things not going well. Now before you hear me preaching an “it is what it is” message, counter to the heart of my most recent book effort, I promise you that’s not what I’m saying. Instead, I’d suggest that the anticipation of obstacles and missteps sets me up to see those moments differently; that even my missteps and failed attempts can be elements of my creative process. What do I do with the moment things go … wrong? This week, gymnastics legend Simone Biles pulled out of events in the Olympics, setting off a series of reflections and discussions (including this one) about mental health, sports ethics, performance patterns, rising to the challenge, and public responsibility. There are moments when the best of us, in us or about isn’t available for our “greatest opportunities.” Things don’t always work optimally in optimal situations. In my reading, it’s not what Simone Biles was up against (internally and externally), it’s what she did with that moment, both professionally and publicly, that makes this the moment it is. She chose her health over performance and then told the world. And in so doing, I’d suggest that she moved the goal post regarding what “greatness” can look like for a Legendary athlete. In 2020, the American Medical Society for Sports Medicine published a short study about the detection, treatment, and prevention of mental health issues in competitive athletes. Along with more recognizable factors like “perfectionism,” the study delves into what is known as “Athlete Identity,” which is the degree to which someone views themselves within the athletic role and looks to others for confirmation of that role. In short, an unhealthy dependence of an individual on their success in that one area of life comes at the cost of overall health. And we hear that put really simply by athletes like Simone Biles when she says, just hours after pulling herself from competition on the global stage, “There's more to life than athletics.” Or why, in response to Simone Biles's story, we hear Michael Phelps, a legend in his own right and time, say “We’re human beings. Nobody is perfect. It’s okay not to be okay.” See,.. what if it’s harder to be a whole and healthy human being than it is to be great at any particular thing? What if Simone Biles actually took a step towards whole human goodness by removing herself from the metrics that confirm her greatness as an “Athlete?” In 2009, David Bazan released one of my favorite songs, entitled “Hard To Be.” A somewhat tongue-in-cheek examination of the Biblical notion of sin, David walks through some of the odder explanations and justifications for the fact that life is hard; that things fall apart, and that people get hurt. Then, he daftly returns, in the chorus to the very simple, fundamental truth that It’s hard to be Hard to be Hard to be A decent human being. Yes, it is. And let that make us fans of one another. That, just as we pause the celebrate Simone Biles’s remarkable and unparalleled talent, we’d pause to cheer on our neighbors and roommates as they pursue wholeness and health and the full life God desires for beloved ones around us. As hard as it might be to achieve the things that make one an Olympic champion in a season of life, it just might be harder to live healthily, well, and wholly over the course of a lifetime. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| KJ Ramsey | 22 Jul 2021 | 00:55:03 | |
I was setting up to interview an upcoming guest when she told me “I’m sorry I’ll have to be pretty strict with the hour and leave right away. I’m seeing my therapist right after this.” “Absolutely,” I told her. “We’ll probably talk for 45 min.” Now, it’s not just of note that this guest was looking forward to her therapy session; but also of note that this guest is a Spiritual Director. Therapy is not for “weak” people. Therapy is for people Who wants to live into their strengths. Therapy is not for “broken” people Therapy is for people who want to want to live healed and whole. Therapy is not for “sick” people Therapy is for people who value their health. Part of what I think you’ll hear in my conversation with KJ Ramsey is that posture towards therapy and what is now often called “self-care.” The practice and belief that confessing and facing my shortcomings is an expression of health and strength. Check it out. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| You Are The Gift | 15 Jul 2021 | 00:06:25 | |
Toward the end of the introduction of my most recent book, It Is What You Make Of It, is a kind of admonition; a clarion call, as it were. “There is a virtual army of contentious voices around you screaming that life “ is what it is,“ and particularly in places, you feel stuck. Your work-life quote is what it is.“ Your social life “is what it is.“ Your physical health “is what it is“ I’m saying all that is garbage. Your life is not just a set of steel circumstances that “or what they are“ without any hope of change or improvement or transformation. I don’t know exactly where that voice is coming from in your particular life, but I want to help you locate it and shut it up forever.” It’s actually a somewhat poorly kept secret that I’m not always very interested in the specific accomplishments or achievements of those I get to work with as a coach. In other words, while I certainly do find a lot of the projects my clients introduce me to interesting, it’s pretty much never the book or the album or the business startup or jewelry line I’m emotionally invested in. Instead, I am regularly and often deeply moved by the person doing the work; who they are, and who they are be becoming. You are the gift you are offering the world. The service or the artifact you’re working at or dreaming up is how you’re passing yourself on. Which is why one of the most important chapters for me to have written in that book (the one I read from a few moments ago) highlights a rather unsavory event from my vocational history. I won’t recount the entire story here; I think it’s worth reading in the book. But for the purposes of this episode, here it goes, in short: I was working with a designer/art director on what would be my first book project. It was a massive project because we’d thrown in visual art, a second edition of the book, documentary video, and music… So… having bitten off WAY more than I could chew in the time I gave us as a two-person team, I was stressed. We’d passed our first self-imposed deadline and then another and then I realized how badly I needed to get the thing turned in to be available for the tour dates I’d booked. in my stress, I blew up at one of the customer service agents who was employed by the printing service we’d hired to make the book. We’d had a few errors come back when we submitted the files and I … kinda .. lost it. I don’t remember exactly what I said at the moment, but it was pretty insulting and the young man on the phone took it personally. And then… he quietly and very effectively retaliated by digitally corrupting the upload process so that, over the next several weeks, it became impossible for my project to be approved and completed. Eventually, my partner took over the conversation with the printer and we got the thing done. And.. honestly, I’ve always been decently happy with that project; it’s not great. But
I am the gift I am giving in and through my work. It’s not the service or the artifact I’m working at or dreaming up; it’s me, through what I’m making. Which is why, along with 4:30 am wake-ups to ensure I put my most focused work hours in when my head is clearest, I do the work of ensuring I can be clear at all. I see a therapist and have for many, many years. I work with a spiritual director. I get exercise and get sleep I’ll find myself a session or two with a new coaching client, hearing the hesitation and confusion on their end while I ask them about how often they’re getting outside and what time they’re getting to sleep. I stopped asking about the project and started tying the value of even doing the project to their health and wholeness because that’s what I think it’s all about to begin with. You are the gift you are giving the world. Which leads me to this: in the same way that books don’t write themselves and melodies don’t just fall into place; in the same way that Justice doesn’t just roll down and Peace doesn’t just get a chance… you and I do not simply become. You and I don’t just get healthy. Just like your idea needs time and curation and attention from you, you and I need the help of those outside us in order to be shaped and grow; sometimes even just to heal and get right. I don’t recommend therapy because I think you’re broken. I don’t recommend spiritual direction because I think you’re lost. I don’t coach because I think you’re incapable. I think you might be just fine without any of that. But I don’t do what I do, whether it’s this podcast or the book “It Is What You Make Of It” because I want you and I to be fine. I want you and I to be way better than that; and that takes deep, hard, inner-work… often work you and I don’t have the training or expertise to executer much less the altitude on our own lives to do effectively. So, while you’re working on your passion project and your legacy, who’s working on you? Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Monica DiCristina | 01 Jul 2021 | 00:52:29 | |
You know that friend who gets to the gym 7 days every week. I think we all have that friend (if we’re not that friend). I don’t think I’ve ever heard a friend like that called “weak” for working out regularly. Quite the opposite. Sometimes that friend gets called “obsessive” or something like that (often by people who aren’t taking their physical health as seriously) But.. even, in that case, they’re overdoing a good thing; nobody is suggesting that the desire to hit the gym is, in and of itself a sign and practice of weakness. So, why isn’t that the case with therapy? Why is it that, even now, after all, we know about brain chemistry, the control mechanisms in human psychology, and the well-funded attempts by markets, political systems, and corporations to manipulate human thought and emotion.. that the dominant pushback folks have about going to therapy.. is about being, or appearing “weak?” I don’t really know the answer to that in full What I know is that some of the language used to critique psychotherapy and the need for it emanates from Western Religion. Which is part of what makes Monica DiChristina’s work so interesting and important. I really enjoyed my conversation with her and I think you will, too. Check it out.
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Episode Sponsored by BetterHelp Check them out - http://betterhelp.com/atsea Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| The Work of Art | 24 Jun 2021 | 00:05:09 | |
I remember sitting on the edge of a hotel bed, sorting through line after line of a ledger to figure out if the tour manager had missed paying me, two weeks prior, the $55 per night I was promised. At that point, Frank Tate, who owned the label I was on and whose band was headlining the tour AND who I’d struck the $55/night deal, pulled some cash out of his wallet at said “Okay. Here’s $55. Let’s get back to work now.” As we left the hotel room, I sidled up to Frank, thinking he’d taken my side against the faulty memory of our tour manager. “Thanks for your help in there.” But he hadn’t taken my side. At least not the way I wanted him to. It felt like a jab at the time. It wasn’t. It was the push I needed. I was the weakest part of that tour. Easily. Frank was wanting me to love the work more than I loved the results of the work. If you’ve read “It Is What You Make Of It,” you’ll know there are even more stories about Frank Tate’s influence on the way I see my life and work and the relationship between. Years later, my experience and reflection on the love of work resulted in an analogy I used in my 2nd book, which I called Title Pending. The book was a kind of precursor to "It Is What You Make Of It” In that book, I recall a memory about, my son in which we went hiking. We left the place we lived and drove about 15 miles across the way to Mount Diablo. On the drive over, my son was really excited to get to the mountain. But as we got closer to the mountain, the houses in front of the mountain blocked his view. Once we were there on the trail and hiking up the mountain, you couldn’t see the mountain at all. My son got confused and “Where did the mountain go?” The work of life is the thing I need to fall in love with in order to love the life I’m living. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Christopher Williams | 17 Jun 2021 | 01:07:55 | |
In his Legendary book “The War of Art” Steven Pressfield writes: “The professional arms himself with patience, not only to give the stars time to align in his career but to keep himself from flaming out in each individual work. He knows that any job, whether it’s a novel or a kitchen remodel, takes twice as long as he thinks and costs twice as much. . . [he] steels himself at the start of a project, reminding himself it is the Iditarod, not the sixty-yard dash. He conserves his energy. He prepares his mind for the long haul.” I’ve personally met very few artists who embody and practice that attitude quite as well or as consistently as Christopher Williams.
Like the Professional in Pressfield’s book, Chris does the work of being an artist. Little to no flash (though there’s definitely some pizazz on display when he’s playing that hand drum) Little to nothing extra: Just the songs, which, 14 projects later, are better than they’ve ever been.
This is my conversation with singer, songwriter, and percussionist, Christopher Williams
Links for Christopher Williams Links for Justin : Order the new book - It Is What You Make It Episode Sponsored by BetterHelp Check them out - http://betterhelp.com/atsea Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Poetry, Love and Control | 10 Jun 2021 | 00:06:55 | |
A number of years ago, I sat in on a reading by the poet Gregory Orr. Gregory Or was then (and is now) a favorite poet of mine. In fact, he’s a favorite writer of mine. He was maybe five or six pieces into this reading when a conversation struck up between two of the other gentleman in the room. Sitting behind me, I heard one of them saying, loudly enough for me to hear,
So, that’s not the remarkable part of the story; to say or hear “I don’t understand this poem or poetry.” What was notable was that the person he was talking to gave that moment of pause and said… “Actually, not everything is meant to be understood.” This need or desire and me to understand is, in essence, an expression of control. When I talk about “getting” something, when I talk about “understanding” something, part of what I mean by that is that I have a kind of power over it. Part of what good (if not great) poetry does is it disorients me to my own language; the words I normally would use to identify, name, pin down and control the world around me. Great poetry gives me the opportunity to get an attitude over my own life; to re-orient myself and my perspective to be, in fact, charmed again by the life I’m actually living.
to be more than understood and more than powerful too, in fact, be loved And to be Beloved is a thing I can only be named from outside myself. Poetry primes the spirit, primes the mind, loosens to grips I have on the language by which I will control my life my definitions and postures me to actually become someone who can be loved. slightly wider to a different understanding of the same word that I might receive that word might receive that reality on a deeper level in a different way. then maybe I can do that with the people around me. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Tanner Olson | 03 Jun 2021 | 00:51:44 | |
In a bio of mine, I describe myself as someone who desires to “provide language for the process of life and faith” I am a “words” person. Not everyone has to be or is. But I certainly care quite a bit about the words I use and the words that I take into my life. For a number of years, Tanner Olson has been making poetry and putting it in the world. He’s also one of those artists who recognize that the work he does requires a bit of translation. He’s not just a poet who puts poems in the world and hopes that people might or might not get them. He actually invites people into his process as a writer because he is actually doing the work of caring for the language is using and its impact on those to take it in. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Staying Power | 27 May 2021 | 00:06:18 | |
During studio sessions with younger or inexperienced musicians, my dear friend and music producer Masaki Liu would often be asked questions like “What do you think about our chances?” Or “Do you think we can make it?” And, more often than not, he’d consistently respond with an intentionally cryptic piece of encouragement that went pretty much like this, word-for-word: “If you keep at it and stick with it, stay together as a band and keep making music, you’re going to be around for a long time.” Often enough, the band would take that as a compliment, though it wasn’t entirely intended to be. See, in that moment, what the band or artist wanted to know and hear was that they were good enough right there, right then. And that, because they were good enough, right there and right then, they had a more secure and hopeful future. The thing is… like just about everyone, including me when I started recording with him, … that young or inexperienced artist or band wasn’t good enough to “make it” right there, right then. Most of those artists and bands aren’t “around” right now making music. They didn’t make it long-term the way they were dreaming too. And there’s no shame in that: very few do. And I’m pretty convinced part of that part of why so few are still at it, investing in their chosen discipline years down the line is because it’s so easy to become focused to the point of obsession with early success or shallow metrics like being good enough, right now. Yes, there is something to be said for having talent for the thing I want to do. But, more substantial than that, the strengths and capacities that are necessary in order to make a career or a relationship or an organization or movement or dream work long-term are only developed over time and in a commitment to my own process of becoming.
But not so that they would go out and win battle after battle and conquer the world around them with the fervor of young soldiers. “so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground” When it passes, will you still be here? Will you still be standing? At the time of this writing, I’m just a few days away from the release of what will be my 5th book, overall. Entitled “It Is What You Make Of It,” there are stories in the book from the past few years of my work as well as from as long ago as high school and my childhood. The thing that binds together the stories in this book is the perspective and the wisdom I have from where I am. Which is to say, 'who I am now looking back on who I was'. I did what Masaki said to do. I stayed. I’m still here. And there simply isn’t a singular victory or success in the entirety of my career that means as much to me as to say, “I’m still here. I’m still at it. And yes, because I’ve been at it for this long, I am better at what I do now than I’ve ever been at anything I’ve done previously. I am more equipped because I am more of the person I need to be in order to do the work I want to do.” The day I’m writing this is also the one-year anniversary of the murder of George Floyd. A moment in America’s racial history that opened the door for a great many people to enter into the work of justice and reconciliation, many of them for the first time. It is a good work. It is a necessary work. It is also a difficult work in which victories and accomplishments and benchmarks can seem small, at times insignificant, and far too infrequent. Which is to say that it is a work that can be deeply exhausting, particularly if I am deriving my energies from achieving the next success required of the work instead of becoming the kind of person who does the work, even in the face of disappointment See, there was and is a pearl of very practical and lifelong wisdom in Masaki Liu‘s decision to not answer directly the question being asked of him in the studio. If you want to know if you’re good enough right now, I’m not going to answer that question for you. The real question is,... Will you be here long enough to become the kind of person who does the kind of work you want to do today? Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Sacred Strides Chapter 11 | 28 Mar 2024 | 00:30:03 | |
In this episode, Justin McRoberts and Dan Portnoy discuss Chapter 11 of the book 'Sacred Strides.' They explore the importance of leading with love and true compassion in advocacy work. Justin shares a personal story of his experience as an MC at a music festival and how he initially struggled to connect with the audience. He reflects on the need to meet people where they are and tap into their desires and experiences. The conversation also touches on the pitfalls of manipulative advocacy and the importance of building genuine connections with others. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| JJ and Dave Heller | 20 May 2021 | 01:04:53 | |
Close to 20 years ago, I sat in a park near my place in The Bay Area, talking with Dave and JJ about their hopes and dreams. Having spent the first few years of their musical career between Arizona and California, they were right on the edge of a move to Nashville.
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Episode Sponsored by BetterHelp Check them out - http://betterhelp.com/atsea Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Listening Comes First | 13 May 2021 | 00:05:59 | |
In the 8th chapter of the biblical book of acts is a fascinating story about a man named Philip. Philip, a member of the early Church, hears what the writer of the story names as the voice of God saying “Go south.” And as he does, he comes across an Ethiopian eunuch riding in a chariot You know... like ya do. Upon this encounter, Philip hears what the writer of the story identifies as the voice of God says “Go to that chariot and stay near it.” Which Phillip then does. And standing there long enough, he hears the eunuch in the chariot reading from what we now call the Old Testament prophets; readings Phillip and his new religious community would be familiar with. From that moment, Phillip then engages in a deeply resonant conversion with his new friend in which he is asked to help guide and clarify the spiritual awakening Already taking place in the heart, mind, and spirit, and body in the chariot. Which is to say, the entirety of this story is predicated on Phillip’s ability, capacity, and choice to listen. Without that choice and without that discipline, there is no encounter, no relationship, and no story. In art, like in a relationship and, I would suggest, in good religion, listening comes first. A number of years ago now, perhaps 15 or so, a large group of teenagers from a different state descended upon San Francisco California, just next to where I live. Their mission was to call on the citizens of that city and its leadership to repent from sin and turn their eyes upon the Lord. Being from elsewhere, most of the rumors and stories they were familiar with about San Francisco were of the sordid type. It was, in their estimation and understanding, a broken place in need of rescue from the outside. Most of what they did with their time looked a bit like a protest, gatherings on the steps of City Hall holding signs about repentance while singing songs they learned in church services or at youth gatherings. And I’ll be honest right now and tell you that I don’t think the primary error here had to do with bringing their particular brand of the Christian religion to San Francisco. Instead, the thing missing here for me is that they did not talk to and listen to Christians whose religion was being lived out in San Francisco and included a deep love for that city. They did not go to the chariot and stand near long enough to hear or see or smell or sense what God might already be up to in the place they were going. I might go so far as to suggest that nothing on the other side of such an error was going to go well. When I started this podcast, my hope and intention was to bend my ear towards murky and turbulent waters in which important decisions are being made that change the lives and trajectories of beloved human beings. What I wasn’t interested in was attending to the problems in those waters as I understood them. Instead, what I have chosen and attempted to do is to hear what it sounds like for goodness, truth, and beauty shine and stir and grow in places I don’t fully understand and in people I don’t know yet. Which is to say, for the past six seasons, I have been learning to conclude more slowly and judge less harshly, and act more wisely,… primarily by learning to listen more carefully. Because, if I do not do that well, I cannot love well. Among the many short snippets of wisdom I have gathered on my Instagram feed, is this one I return to often.
In order to wisely and lovingly deliver goodness to another soul, (and here I would add: “or another place or culture,“ I need to know that soul, that place or that culture. The lifeblood of any good work is listening.
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Pre-Order the new book - It Is What You Make It Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Nick Laparra | 06 May 2021 | 01:02:01 | |
The @ Sea podcast started out to be (and I hope continues to be) a helpful and hopeful guide through sometimes murky or turbulent cultural waters. Some of what that looks like is talking to people I don't align with politically, ideologically, culturally,...
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| Hermeneutics, LGBTQ Youth, and the Pursuit of Love | 29 Apr 2021 | 00:07:54 | |
I remember being in a conversation, I think it was my Junior year of college, in which I was fully introduced to the term “hermeneutics.” I’d been familiar with “interpretation” before but the idea that there was a field of study based on the interpretive potters of readers was fascinating to me. It actually gave me a bit of altitude in understanding and appreciating the differences I was running into among people, specifically around religious ideas.
Then, our professor, who had mostly been quiet, asked “where did you get your interpretation?” The room fell silent. Literally, nobody had thought about it; the lot of us was quietly and unknowingly not only favoring our interpretive angle but not even seeing it as an angle. Now, for anyone who isn’t white or male, that encounter might not seem all that revelatory. But for us, mostly white men in that room, we’d not considered that our take on things was interpretive; we had assumed we were the baseline… Now, it’s both worth noting and it is unsurprising that the process of seeing my perspective and experience as one among many has been ongoing, at times uncomfortable and, more than anything, deeply enriching. Far from diminishing my understanding of Truth, recognizing my own hermeneutic(s) has come with far more mature and humbler respect for Divine truth, Scientific Fact, and Human the human experience of Reality. I don’t have to be right in order to feel and be rightly placed. If the Truth or Meaning does not belong to me, then I am free to belong to the Truth and for my life to have Meaning well beyond myself and my understanding. It’s all just bigger and deeper and wider and just… more.. and far deeper and wider and more than my capacity to possess it. Which is part of why I’ve found the brick wall and friction that so often characterizes conversations about homosexuality or queerness and religion so… sad. At least some (if not a large part) of what is at hand in religious disagreement about human sexuality is a matter of hermeneutics; it is, in large part, an interpretive difference. And I’ll risk sounding naive here by saying that, while I certainly understand that some interpretive disagreements are more serious because some matters are more serious, I’m … flat out heartbroken by the ways this particular hermeneutic, theological and philosophical conversation ends relationships, personally and institutionally. And I’m not here to say “can’t we all just get along?” No, I want to say something else, entirely. During the second half of that conversation my Junior year, the half led by our professor, he reminded us that the name of the course we were in was “Philosophy.” Which literally means “the love of wisdom.” He challenged us to note that what we were doing wasn’t philosophy at all. And while I wouldn’t have named it at the time, I can now: we weren’t pushing wisdom out of love, we were pursuing control by way of knowledge. We wanted to decide who gets in and who stays out, not just according to the articulation of their knowledge base, but according to whether or not their existing knowledge matched our own. If I am truly to pursue wisdom, I don’t get to decide who else joins the chase. How much more is that the case If I am truly to seek God. And again, I’ll risk sounding simple-minded here: I sincerely wonder if the chaos and division and impassability of this space isn’t predominately because of a lack of sincere love between those arguing or conversing. I wonder if, as the Scriptures themselves warn against, too many of us are too full and puffed up with the knowledge that we lack room in us for the Love that would make our knowledge worth having at all. Earlier this year, rapper Propaganda released a song in which is written: “We ain't gotta be enemies but I got non-negotiables All ideas ain't equal, bro“ Not all interpretations are equal and not all ideas are equal. But the people who hold those ideas and hold to these interpretations… are. And that is a thing far more vital than my rightness and far more weighty than my knowledge. Suicide rates among LGBTQ teens in religious settings is statistically and significantly higher. And while there are many ways to interpret that data, here’s a thing I’m comfortable saying: it matters more that kids are made to feel less safe and valuable in religious settings than it matters that my religious interpretations are on point. So, forgive me for projecting a bit here. But if that’s not the place we’re starting from, then it’s no wonder we seem to be getting nowhere.
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| Kevin Garcia | 22 Apr 2021 | 01:02:29 | |
I ask just about all my guests about life online. I'm of the opinion that "real" life happens there and I'm increasingly interested in the way it does; particularly when that happening takes on labels like "religion" or "faith" or "spirituality." I think a fair amount of personal formation takes place online and I'm intrigued (art least) by the people who take that formation seriously as well as take some degree of responsibility for it.
Links for Kevin Garcia https://www.thekevingarcia.com
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| Ideology As Idolatry | 01 Apr 2021 | 00:06:32 | |
I feel like I’ve always been aware of the sociopolitical battle lines between differing thoughts on “abortion” or preemptive war, but the comprehensive, nearly wholesale division and split between people with competing ideologies nowadays is … heartbreaking and scary. In other words, it’s no longer just that I think you’re wrong about this or that; it's that, if you entertain these specific thoughts, then you are aligned with that particular culture, which means you’re in this camp and part of this tribe and, as part of that camp/tribe/people, WHO YOU ARE offends and threatens me. I think the grief for me here is that, in conversations about competing ideologies these days, I am treated as if I am my ideas.
I have ideas and some of them are weighty in my mind. But, as important as any of them might be, I’m not defined by my ideas. Heck a number of them are in conflict with other ideas in me, not to mention in conflict with some of my feelings and even the ways I choose to live despite some of those thoughts and feelings. I’m not trying to be a centrist. I’ve tried that and I just ended up lying to myself and others about things I really knew or believed or cared about.
And maybe it’s always been a matter of identity. Maybe that’s new. I honestly can’t tell. What I know is that I don’t see minds changed very often. Nowhere near as I see enemies made and friendships lost. During season 1 of this podcast, author Michael Wear warned against the desire or expectation to find a “home” in a political ideology out a political party; suggesting that the only places left where unchecked bias was not only allowed but championed was in the political and ideological; that these were the arenas in which it is still allowable to insult, judge and belittle; to dehumanize. So… as wishy-washy as this might sound, that’s become a metric for me in conversation and cultural engagement; if my ideas or political conclusions or religious convictions lead or allow me to think lesser of people, I’m in the wrong. Period. A few years ago, I talked in-depth with a dear friend of mine with whom I have some very fundamental disagreements, namely about religious matters. We were if I’m honest, really proud of our friendship that, in light of some vehement disagreements, we maintained a friendship. That, in fact, we didn’t avoid our differences so much as they actually enriched our connection.
I can be right all day long about very important things; things you might be desperately wrong about. But if I do not love you, my ideas are powerless. The value of an idea is the benefit it affords human life. So, I’m not here to say “everyone should be nice.” What I am saying is that no idea is more important than the people who hold it… or the people who don’t agree.
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| Karen Swallow Prior | 25 Mar 2021 | 00:49:20 | |
I don’t know when the words “liberal” or “conservative” became insults. What I do know is that I can’t remember a time when they weren’t. So, maybe it’s always been this way to some degree. I’m not sure. My guest on this episode of the podcast is a voice who shows up on what many might call the “conservative side” of conversations, online and off. I’ve watched her navigate the nuances of those engagements without slipping into the snark and dismissiveness that has become a hallmark of political argument. I’ve also marveled at her capacity to both belong to and deeply critique her own culture. A Ph.D., she is a Research Professor of English and Christianity and Culture at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. She is an author and contributor to a library of books including a very interesting book entitled “Cultural Engagement: A Crash Course In Contemporary Issues.” This is my conversation with Karen Swallow Prior.
Links for Karen Swallow Prior
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| Fear and Booze & Beer and Taboos | 18 Mar 2021 | 00:05:15 | |
When Donald Miller’s book “Blue Like Jazz” was initially making its rounds through religious circles, one of the hot topics of conversation had to do with cultural taboos.
Which is why I really prefer hearing care-takers approach issues like booze or cussing or tattoos or sex say something more like “I’m not comfortable with this and, having thought a lot about it, here are my reasons.” First, because there are some things that are, flat out, just plain wrong and the toxicity and seriousness of those things are lessened when treated with a similar weight as something like foul language or horror films. But also because it’s better leadership. Saying “This is the way I am going because, based on the information I have, it is a good way for me and I wonder if it might be better for you” is a thing I can respect and follow, particularly as it’s handed to me as a way to care; it’s also what is really meant oftentimes. But saying “I’ve discovered or seen a cosmic and unmovable truth that you don’t see about this very particular (and even small) thing. You should get on board.” is harder to swallow and is dripping with fear; fear of the thing itself and (worse), fear that I’ll choose poorly and unwisely given the chance. Fear makes bad religion and unhealthy relationship Fear also corrupts and undoes good religion and healthy relationship
But it’s more humanly true And it’s more caring.
Links for Justin : Pre-Order the new book - It Is What You Make It Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Harding House Brewery | 11 Mar 2021 | 00:38:07 | |
The very first beer I ever had was, I believe, a Bud Dry. That’s probably not true for a lot of folks, but it’s part of my story and I like it as someone who tests as a 4 on the enneagram. At the time, beer pretty much only showed up at parties or in TV commercials and was never any talk about “hops” or or “malt” between beer drinkers. Which is to say, the culture around beer was thin.
The most recent beer I had was last night at a neighbor-friend’s birthday party where we tasted 8 different beers from local breweries and talked about the differences in composition and flavor and complexity; the way people talk about wine or paintings or songs. I got to sit down with them in Nashville a few weeks ago. It was a delightful conversation. Check it out. http://www.hardinghousebrew.com/ Links for Justin: Pre-order the NEW Book - It Is What You Make It Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Deconstruction and Fundamentalism | 04 Mar 2021 | 00:10:46 | |
I just got off the phone with a long-time friend who is now a coaching client. It's the call I needed in order to finish this script. This beloved friend began the conversation with the nearly universal phrase: "I feel like I'm always in the middle." And I get that. Even though I disagree a bit. I don't think he's in the "middle," per se; I think he's trapped in a relationship with people who hold somewhat opposing perspectives (political, social, theological) and hold those perspectives more tightly and more dearly than they do the people around them. In other words, he is in a relationship with fundamentalists who hold differing opinions; People who are so sure that what they think is correct and who are so sure that the things they think are important that they are willing to sacrifice relationship in order to hold onto their perspectives and ideas. That's the actual trauma and tragedy of Fundamentalism; it strips people of their humanity and rends us from those we would otherwise love. I'm not allowed to be on a journey or in a process. I MUST come to conclusions and have some form of certainty. Namely about things the machinery I've aligned myself with has deemed most important. -- in 2008, I released a collection of songs entitled "Deconstruction." The title was actually a remnant from my collegiate studies in philosophy, where I spent a bit of time around the work and words of Jaques Derrida. At the time, "post-modernism" was the buzz phrase, particularly as some of its core tenants threatened the seemingly secure hold Modernity had on daily life. Most western, white-male-dominated cultures stood firmly on the assumption that some things were "True" and, in their being True and immovable. That assurance meant that the building of institutions and rules of life were safer and would be long-lasting. What Derrida offered, though, was the suggestion that the language used to communicate and understand those assurances was fraught with contradiction and complexity; that language did not reliably point in the direction of a controlling and anchoring "Truth." Instead, words are bound together by the tension and connection found between themselves. There was (and is) no central reference point from which each individual word derives its meaning. More simply, if a word has "meaning," it has that meaning in relationship to the words around it. And that's the constant; language and the connection between words. Some critics read Derrida as one more expression of "relative truth," but Derrida was up to something fundamentally different; he was suggesting that the "constant" was relationship itself. The relationship between words and between the people who used them. For example: In a religious context, that Truth might be expressed in a phrase like "God is love. "For Derrida, the wild differences between what I mean by "God "and what you meant suggests a lack of common experience; there is no "thing" to be called "God." what there is, though, is the connection between you and me. And, in that case, meaning wasn't to be discovered in a common experience of whatever the word "God" meant; it was forged and fostered in the connection and tension in the relationship between you and I. He called this "Deconstruction." DERRIDADIAN DECONSTRUCTION:
At the heart of his initial work was (and is) a frustration about the inherent desire in human hearts to place "meaning" at the center of existence. That just because we are alive, our lives must have meaning. He found this problematic and sought to undo it. Derrida saw it problematic that philosophy was driven by the need to find a centering, grounding meaning at all. He bristled at the certainty with which philosophers sought to find meaning somewhere; believing their certainty in any kind of absolute blinded them. My religious training counters that idea by suggesting that the desire in human hearts to live in and with meaning is a hunger similar to the hunger for food, a thing to actually schedule one's days around rather than learn to ignore, for really any reason. The details, of course, are negotiable, to say the least; but that nudge at the core of one's soul that says "there's more. not just out there, but in you" is real; it's part of what it means to be human. And this is why I find myself struggling with the use of the word "deconstruction" as a description for so much socio-religious conversation recently. The way I hear it, I think we're mostly talking about reorganization and maturity and growing and discernment, all of which is not just fine; it's good. It's true. It's beautiful. And I guess I wish we would let good things be good, sometimes. Most of the institutional conversations i'm around feature a critique of systems that poorly reflect a central truth or Reality that deserves a better treatment and culture. For many, churches are problematic, not because they're organized around a reality that is non-existent, but because their corporeal practices distract from the beauty and goodness of that Reality. Yes, please? I like that a lot. But that's not deconstruction. It's something ( i would suggest) richer and harder and more communal and more fluid and more human; it's the work part of belonging to people. It is the practice of Beloved Community. I have long believed that one of the most corrosive aspects of Fundamentalism is that it convinces us that ideas and definitions are more vital and important than the people who hold them. In that light, Fundamentalism convinces us that change is a necessarily deconstructive process; things are either true or false, black or white, real or not, in or out, Biblical or sinful, sacred or secular - alive to the Glory of and service of God or fit to be torn down and trampled... there is no movement or growth or progress or even redemption; I've either got it right, or I've got to go. The glaring feature in that fundamentalist mindset is fear, mostly fear that the center won't hold if it's moved or challenged or not protected. And.. here's where I'd like to land this plane: I don't think that's what we have on hand, collectively and culturally. I don't think despair at the absence of existential meaning is winning the day. I think that nudge.. got a lot stronger.. for a lot more people. And a lot more people want to move whatever it is in the way of getting more of that nudge. I think we're seeing a scandalously broad awakening ... that this nudge and the fact that I sense it matters MORE than the words some paid professional uses to describe it, control it and commodify it. What I'm seeing is the fervent and sometimes angry tearing away at whatever artifice is deemed in the way of a clear vision of what's most real. I'm hearing conviction and frustration that there is, in fact, a center (though it might not be static) and that there are fundamental truths (though they may be interpersonal in nature) but that all this gatekeeping garbage culture is keeping people we love and like and want and need from the goodness of it. I don't mind the word "deconstruction" but historically, deconstruction is a very specific and often highly individualized process by which one unearths the very core and center of their being and decides that if there is meaning in their world or in their life, it must be constructed and held together by the sheer force of the own, individual will. So, if that's you, I get it, and that's real and can be terrifying and also really good. But if it's not, then consider that you might not be deconstructing. You might be feeling an invitation to a legitimate "awakening" to be shared by all kinds of people, with whom you agree and disagree; an awakening angled towards (and maybe even prompted by) a goodness, Truth, and beauty worth tearing things down for... as well as worth building around. Links for Justin : Pre-order the new book - It Is What You Make it Hearts and Minds Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Sacred Strides Chapter 10 - Quitting the Race "For Good" | 21 Mar 2024 | 00:30:47 | |
In this episode, Justin and Dan discuss Chapter 10 of the book 'Sacred Strides' titled 'Quitting the Race for Good' or 'Disconnect and Repair'. They start by talking about technology and its metaphorical significance. Justin shares his experiences with tech issues and the need for intentional disconnection. He explains the analogy of Bluetooth connections and the importance of forgetting certain connections to reconnect in a healthier way. Justin also discusses his journey of disconnecting from transactional relationships and finding true connections that remind him of his belovedness. Takeaways
Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Scheduling 00:30 Root Canal and West Wing 03:04 Technology as a Metaphor 06:15 Disconnecting and Repairing 11:12 Bluetooth and Connections 13:01 Forgetting Connections 15:20 Deep Dive into the Soul 22:56 Disconnecting and Forgetting 28:01 Recognizing Belovedness 29:43 Conclusion Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Laura Joyce Davis | 25 Feb 2021 | 00:51:30 | |
The ethos and heart of my next book is that just about nothing "is what it is." Instead, as the title of the book would have it, It Is What You Make Of It. I realize that shifting from "it is what it is" to "it is what you make of it" is a long process and can be a bit daunting. More so when the "is" we have to work with, our circumstances and opportunities is really sideways. When things go wrong or the unexpected takes over, it can feel like the most natural thing to do is to navigate to, grab hold of, and cling to something "solid" or "sure." What if, on the other hand, and on occasion, I read a lack of "solid ground" or the absence of a "sure thing" as an invitation into adventure? That's what I find inspiring and formative in Laura Joyce Davis. That, while I don't blame a soul for looking to "sure things" and more "solid ground" during the COVID era, she and her family took it as an opportunity to dive headlong into the unknown and see what they could make of the pieces they found there. She is a writer and the host of the "Shelter In Place" podcast. She is also my guest on this episode of the @ Sea Podcast. Check it out. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Pain & Strength | 17 Feb 2021 | 00:05:50 | |
I think it was 6 or so years ago, I was in a session with a therapist who practiced cranial - sacral therapy. Which, in short, attends to the alignment of the body between the cranium (my noggin) and the sacrum (which is pretty much my tailbone). It’s a series of long tensions and pulls rather than muscle squeezing and all that. About 15 min into the session, she asked me, “It feels like you have some injuries on your left side.” “Yeah, probably.” She paused and then pulled me over onto my back and said, “tell me.” I’d never been asked before to recount my history of injuries. Regardless, I could recall all of them. broken ankle multiple sprained ankles (6-7) hairline fracture of my tibia ACL tear some other mind of knee blowout dislocated hip 3 broken ribs (2 occasions) Broken collarbone (2x) Broken shoulder Broken wrist (2x) Hairline skull fracture (2x) All of it on the left side of my body. “That’s a lot of trauma.” My brain immediately reacted with something like, “What?! I don’t have ‘trauma.’ I just got hurt a few times.” She took my wrists and folded my arms across my chest. Then, pressing down hard into my shoulders, “Let’s see what we can do. Close your eyes and take a deep breath.” After 30 more min, I stood up and felt ... new? It was really, really strange. I had to readjust to what felt like... Strength. But it was quite literally unlike any strength I’d felt in myself previously. I’d been used to the kind of strength normally prescribed by calls and challenges to “stay strong” or “be strong.” The kind of strength that’s was, in and of itself, an effort to maintain. This strength was just … there, holding my body together at my center. Literally, the only thing that had changed (the only thing that had happened) was that someone had felt the trauma(s) in me, kindly helped me acknowledge them as real, and then actively engaged with the places in me where I was still carrying, by injury, those pieces of my history. I think this is what is often meant by “entering into” someone’s pain. And the fruit of that work, that entering in was strength. — Lent begins today. It is a season characterized by the practice of fasting; the choice to deny myself of some joy or pleasure (or even some need); in short, a season marked by the decision to suffer. And, along with the opportunity to practice that personal disciplines in order to clarify my own life and connection with The Divine, Lent is also an invitation to reach out to (or reach into) a world actually bound together by the shared experience of pain and say something along the lines of “that’s a lot of trauma.” And then, if we are welcomed, enter in. And not to simply “fix” what’s wrong in one another (though that is a shared dream, too) but enter in because there is a kind of magic in the meeting of tired and wounded human lives; A hope for healing and resurrection and actually new life. And I don’t know exactly how it works. I just know it does That friendships are deeper after adventure, and communities are richer after trial. That there is a power and a peace available to human hearts and human lives that is accessible only through the doorway of pain and suffering BUT/AND it is a doorway that cannot be passed through alone. Sometimes it takes therapy. Sometimes it takes a podcast guest like Jennifer Ko sometimes it’s friends or family or a child sponsorship program or AA meetings Almost always, it takes someone saying, “I see this in you, and I would like to help carry it. I would consider it an honor.” And someone else saying, “Yes, please do. I trust you. Come closer.” And almost always, in time what we find between us and in us is not the diminished effort and energy of persons carrying more than they should (because we are carrying someone else’s burdens) we find a strength we didn’t know before and would rather not live without. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Jennifer Ko | 11 Feb 2021 | 00:32:58 | |
Often enough, the topic of pain gets tied up into the same kind of conversations had about “evil.” Spoken of as a “problem” or a thing to be avoided. A thing that diminishes the human experience and limits relationships. Oddly, pain, including physical pain, is perhaps the most common human experience. And there might not be anything quite as soul-binding as suffering together. Which is what makes the work Jennifer Ko does so beautiful, so good and so humanly true. Chronic pain and physical limitation take center stage in Jennifer’s story and her work. And rather than speaking in terms of “problems” and “ways to avoid,” Jennifer shares the reality of her pain as an experience and expression of her full humanity. I am regularly informed and inspired by who she is and how she shares herself. This is my conversation with Jennifer Ko. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Sacred vs “Ordinary” | 05 Feb 2021 | 00:07:05 | |
I didn’t know a lot about the actual life of Jesus before I was in my mid-twenties. Honestly, even after I started calling myself a Christian (which is far more interesting conversation now than it was then), What actually led me to do the work of discovery and research wasn’t a sermon series; it was seeing a series of books or short documentaries on what people were calling the “Lost Years” of Jesus’ life. As the 4 biblical accounts of Jesus’ life have it, we can read about his birth, which is mostly about his mother’s faith and the political environment he’s born into, and then we actually get nothing until he’s right about 12 when he wanders off from his parents and ends up in a conversation with religious elders. THEN, there’s nothing until he’s about 30. In fact, all there is to read of the actual life of Jesus is roughly 3 years. So, I started noticing these books in which a whole slew of folks basically gave in to imaginative conjecture about what Jesus was doing as a young adult into his mid-twenties. In most of these stories, he’d gone on some kind of religious pilgrimage. Some folks suggested he’d studied with the Hindus and some with the Buddhists and others with other groups or tribes. Part of it felt like folks trying to make Jesus “one of theirs” instead of being challenged by him on his own terms, much the way Nationalists have done so destructively here in the US. And that was weird to see, even if it was a bit obvious. But, there was a whole other element to the “Lost Years of Jesus” narrative that gnawed at me namelessly for a while. I couldn’t figure out what bugged me until much later, after years of feeling a kind of distance between the life I was living and any kind of deep, cosmic significance; even though I was chasing that significance with every bit of my person I could muster. Why was it necessary that, in order to be a wise, spiritually insightful person, Jesus had to leave home and go be hyper-religious somewhere? What was this fascination with “exotic” religious experience? More to the point, what was missing on the ground beneath Jesus’ feet that would have required him to leave the people nearest him, the world with which he was most familiar (and was most familiar with him) and look elsewhere? Because if there wasn’t sufficient … if the neighborhood Jesus was in didn’t have any kind of sacred resonance… what did that say about mine? In other words, these stories reinforced the same garbage sales pitch every other bad religious marketing scheme was rooted in; you’re not enough, your life is not significant as it is. Here’s what I’ve come to: a religious narrative that doesn’t set the world around you and within you aglow with meaning and energy and hope and potential is absolute trash and is entirely undeserving of your time and attention. If you leave your religious gathering and your home seems darker because it doesn’t’ feel as good as the show the team of well-funded professionals put on, you aren’t being decoupled; you’re being swindled. Because, if the incarnation story of Jesus says anything clearly, (and I think it does) it announces, in no uncertain terms that God was pleased to live as a human being and to do so in such a way that for early 30 years, that life looked so much like yours and mine that we didn’t even notice it. It says that it’s not just “okay” to be human and have a job and a neighborhood and a family and friends and to sleep and snack and make love and fight and forget and remember and work and rest and learn… it’s sacred. It says you don’t have to LOOK for significance, you are significant. It says you don’t have to go on a pilgrimage to find holy ground, you’re standing on it now, and that the point of the pilgrimage is to come home and see the place you live more completely. Part of what I think you hear in my conversation with Kayla Craig is the way her integrated life gleans energy and insight from its various dimensions. Parenting and neighboring and writing and on and on… not disparate elements to be handled one at a time, lest they detract from or lessen or even corrupt one another, but a living network of relationships beautifully tangled up in Kayla’s own joy and desire. Some of my guests are people who are doing remarkable work I want you to know about. Some of my guests are doing that remarkable work in a way that I find deeply challenging and informative. I’d like to do both. I think you might want to as well. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Kayla Craig | 28 Jan 2021 | 00:54:01 | |
If you've been around me for any significant time, you'll likely know that my mother is a hero of mine. not in a cute "I love my mom, you guys" kind of way but more like "I hope I can be the kind of resilient and faithful and strong as that person" kind of way. From her very difficult childhood, marked by various in-house abuses and financial destitution to her adventures west to CA from Albuquerque, NM to the ways she held our family together while my father was falling apart and, more recently the relentless ways she cares for me and my kids, I marvel at her parenthood. Which leads me to this: The significance of parenthood seems to often allude faithful and respectful conversation. Either idolized in a kind of glass box and set aside untouched by critique or minimized in a smaller cardboard box and cast aside so that it doesn’t touch other vital things. Parenthood often gets treated as the alter on which all other aspects of life must be sacrificed or the pit of despair that must be avoided so that other aspects of life can be enjoyed and pursued. Either way, the battle lines are drawn: Adventure vs parenthood Romance vs parenthood Ministry vs parenthood Art-making vs parenthood And on and on. And then there’s Kayla Craig, whose practice of integrating her parenthood and her career and adventure and romance and ministry and art is something like a marvel and (more important) something like a beacon and a call forward. She is, like I am, a parent. She is also working on a book of prayers for parents while co-hosting the Upside Down Podcast (on which I’ve been a guest) and producing another the Sacred Ordinary Days And what I love about her posture in doing all of that is that she doesn’t think it makes her special. It makes her normal. Well, I like her kind of normal. I think you will, too. This is my conversation with Kayla Craig.
Links for Kayla Craig
Links for Justin : Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Labels vs Relationships | 21 Jan 2021 | 00:06:49 | |
Most of the guests I host on the podcast share some kind of faith in common. For many of them, that faith carries the label of "Christianity." for others, that label doesn't fit quite as well or as comfortably. My last guest, Jon Steingard, is one such guest for whom religious labels are somewhat unhelpful, at least at this moment in his life and career. But, then again, maybe it's not about this moment or season for Jon, or for people like Jon, and maybe there are a whole lot more people "like Jon;" folks who feel placeless and are somewhat comfortable with that. . Maybe the fact that religious labels are so unhelpful and inaccurate with Jon "right now" actually says something about the ineffectiveness and extreme limitation of those labels. In 2008, I released an album called "Deconstruction" after doing a fair about of my own deconstructive work, theologically and philosophically, and socially. One of the questions I started getting from folks was some form of "okay, where are you now?" Where are you on this topic? Or this theme? Or this point? Or this idea? And it rarely felt like a real conversation when that happened. More often, It felt more like a test, a way for the person asking the question to determine how comfortable they were in relationship to me. I was asked to give (or, conversely, not give) to keep peace in the relationship. And relationships held together on the strength of either party passing tests of any kind, much less social and philosophical tests, well, those aren't healthy relationships. FAR less interesting, less helpful, and, in the end, far less human. I never get over the fact that, at the centerpiece of the Christian narrative, God becomes human. Which is to say: A person with political ideologies, and social leanings, and particular tastes, and complex, nuanced cultural affiliations - all of which require sincere, open, and courageous engagement and conversation. So those things can be "deal with," but so that, in learning to know Jesus as a whole person, those who chose to do the work of relationship might learn (and relearn ) to know and be known by God. I recently re-posted a short reflection that reads. "The moment I refuse to recognize God in places and people that are unlike me is the moment I stop recognizing God." The question "Where are you?" or "where are you on this?" is just far too limited and far too limiting; it's also almost unavoidably judgmental in a way I don't want to be; it's almost always a conversation stopper and a relational hurdle. I'm more interested in questions like "How did you come to that?" "Where does that come from?" "why do you think so?" All of them feel far more like ways to know a person and far less like stopping someone in the hallway and asking to see their pass. In me, those questions are also ways I get to ask myself a more central question; the one that actually drives the whole of my work and life: "where is God?" When I ask, "how did you come to that?" or "Where does that come from?" or "why do you think so?" I'm listening for how that person's soul is searching for goodness and truth and beauty; I want to understand and appreciate how that person's soul attaches to and creates meaning and connection. I'm looking for the fingerprints of Divinity. I'm choosing and hoping to recognize God in places and people that aren't like me. When I predicate my relationships (as well as the questions and conversations those relationships can facilitate) on my ability to place you somewhere on a map of social/theological conclusions, I cut off the actual relationship. And I have come to believe that it is ONLY in actual relationship that I learn to see myself, see others and (yes) see God. Only in actual relationship; relationship that changes and evolves with new seasons and new information; marked sometimes by agreement and coordination and sometimes by tension, distance and strife - more than anything else; relationship that is characterized and driven by curiosity and interest and a sincere, care-oriented desire to connect. I hope this podcast can be the way you live that way, too. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Jon Steingard | 14 Jan 2021 | 00:59:06 | |
Jon Steingard spent 16 years as a musician, songwriter and front man in a band whose success had its context in what some call the "Christian market." I've spent a bit of time there myself and there's a whole conversation herein about whether or not a marketplace can be "christian," (I think it can't). But that's what's significant and odd about that conversation is that what seems to bind that marketplace and its buyers together as a tribe is agreement on a very particular set of theological and social conclusions. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Season 6: It Is What You Make Of It | 08 Jan 2021 | 00:07:34 | |
Links For Justin:
Read Justin's Substack
Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems
Order Sacred Strides
JustinMcRoberts.com
Support this podcast
NEW Single - Let Go
NEW Music - Sliver of Hope
NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird
The Book - It Is What You Make it
Hearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble
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| Season Six | 06 Jan 2021 | 00:02:48 | |
When I started the @ Sea Podcast, I was doing a bit of soul searching. The way I communicated it originally was that the cultural spaces I was used to hosting the work of soul-shaping and meaning-making had ceased to work for enough people or enough kinds of people. In response to that, I wanted to be a guide (a good captain, as it were), helping to navigate the turbulent waters of an unsure/unclear future. So, I set out to talk with people who were building that future, people who were making what comes next. Over time, I learned something vital: it wasn't' the artifact or the program or even the culture that comes next; it was the person doing the work of making and changing and rethinking and maintaining; that person is what's next. In short, you're what comes next. Then it hit me that I'm part of what comes next, in my own way. And this podcast is part of how I live into that. Over this next season, we will certainly touch on the issues and topics that have been a hallmark of this podcast. But I'll do less focusing on the material and more on the people holding it. A few of the interviews I've already recorded are with people whose names you'll know. Though, many of these conversations will be with people you don't know, people who are part of what comes next in art and faith and leadership. People quietly and diligently working at their craft and culture and who don't have the time to (or interest in) building a brand. You'll also hear a bit more from me, which is a thing I've been somewhat hesitant to do. I've sought to decentralize my own voice with this podcast, and I've benefitted from doing so. But if I'm going to suggest to you that you're part of what comes next and that your work and words make room for others, I'd like to present a clearer example of what it sounds like for me to try doing the same. So, in a sense, a lot will have changed this coming season, even if a lot will not have changed. We're still @ Sea, navigating and listening and paying close attention. But I'd like to look off in the distance a bit less, in search of some safe port or place to anchor. Rather, I'd like to celebrate the reality that you and I are that safe port; and that we didn't set out to just find what's next, we set out to become what's next. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Eugene Cho | 01 Nov 2020 | 01:04:00 | |
Links for Eugene Cho Thou Shalt Not Be A Jerk - Latest Book
Links for Justin Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Sacred Strides Chapter 9 - Running Hurt | 15 Feb 2024 | 00:47:11 | |
Dan and I have been walking through my most recent book, Sacred Strides. We're going chapter by chapter providing some insights into the stories and some add-ons. You know, kind of not quite behind the scenes of the making of it per se, but more like, what are the themes and why are they important? And do I still believe the things I said when I published this book. This week we go through Chapter 9. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Levi The Poet | 08 Oct 2020 | 01:00:01 | |
Links for Levi The Poet:
Links for Justin : Links For Justin: Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Latifah Alattas | 01 Sep 2020 | 00:57:01 | |
Links for Latifah:
Links for Justin : Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Shaun Groves | 17 Jul 2020 | 00:52:21 | |
Links for Shaun:
Links for Justin : Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Sarah Heath | 30 Jun 2020 | 01:14:44 | |
Links for Sarah:
Links for Justin : Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Jennifer Lahl | 16 Jun 2020 | 00:50:04 | |
The Center For Bioethics and Culture Network Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Podcast #42: Colby Martin | 20 May 2020 | 01:06:27 | |
One of the most persistent criticisms of religious progressivism is that it is reactive, pushing back on (and sometimes warring against) older, institutional practices deemed out of date, unhelpful, and even unjust. And while there is some good to such a posture, it doesn’t constitute a full enough profile of leadership. In his book “The Shift” Colby Martin rises to meet that challenge and critique, not only delving into his own journey but pulling principles of leadership, cultural formation, and communal care that do, in fact, more completely fill out a posture of leadership. I enjoyed his book as well as the conversation we had about it. I think you might as well. Check it out. Links For Justin: Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Podcast #41: Ben McBride | 16 Mar 2020 | 00:36:48 | |
It’s one thing to say “we’re in this together.” It’s another thing entirely to practice “belonging” and pay the kind of price required to actually broaden one’s tent; to include people who would just as soon exclude or eliminate you from the socio-cultural mix altogether. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Podcast #40: Jeremy Jones | 05 Feb 2020 | 00:46:04 | |
This episode airs in February of 2020 and gyms all over the country are wrapping up their New Year’s deals to entice newcomers. It’s a poorly kept secret in the fitness world that most gyms (24 hr Fitness, Planet Fitness and the like) harvest the majority of their memberships in January and then.. come February or March, actually count on you not showing up much at all, if at all. In other words, the expectation and intention of most of these campaigns has less to do with satisfying your actual need to live healthily and more to do with capitalizing on it and benefiting the financial health of the gym. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Podcast #39: Michael Frost | 07 Nov 2019 | 00:58:51 | |
In a recent poll of Australians, 70% of those polled claimed to mistrust religious leaders. Of course, I don’t spend a lot of time searching Australian polling data. I saw this because I pay attention to author and missiologist Michael Frost. Michael, has spent much the past two decades tilting his ear towards those who live well beyond the walls of the institutional church, because… Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Podcast #38: Cameron Dezen Hammon | 10 Oct 2019 | 00:56:32 | |
In his early letters to Jesus followers the Apostle Paul regularly and specifically warned against a religious philosophy called Gnosticism. In short, Gnosticism valued immaterial things and particular devalued the human body. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| Sacred Strides Chapter 8 - Taking a Breather | 09 Feb 2024 | 00:39:27 | |
Today, we're embarking on a unique exploration not just of what's written, but of the stories and insights that lie beneath the surface of each chapter. Joining me on this adventure is none other than Dan Portnoy, a dear friend, and producer. Dan's perspective on my work is truly one-of-a-kind. He's been by my side through the highs and lows, understanding not just the essence of my writing, but the passion and purpose that drive it. Today, we're not just revisiting the chapters of 'Sacred Strides,' but we're also delving into the layers underneath—the thoughts, the motivations, and the untold stories that have shaped this book. And let me tell you, having Dan here isn't just about having a fan in the room; it's about sharing this space with someone who genuinely cares about the work, appreciates the craft of writing, and, most importantly, isn't afraid to dive deep into the discussion, challenging and enriching our journey through 'Sacred Strides.' So, whether you've been a part of our story from the beginning or are just joining us, we're thrilled to have you with us. Let's peel back the layers together, uncovering the heart and soul behind 'Sacred Strides.' Check it out. Links For Justin:Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Podcast #37: Kirsten Powers | 17 Sep 2019 | 00:35:22 | |
The power of those who identify, translate and communicate current events is truly massive; sometimes frighteningly so.
Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Podcast #36: Jamie Tworkowski | 20 Aug 2019 | 00:48:19 | |
World suicide prvention day is Sept 10 this year. If you’ve been around my life or work for any stretch of time, you know that suicide, depression and related realties have played a significant role for me, in the show of my father’s suicide in may of 1998. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||
| @ Sea Podcast #35: Sarah Thebarge | 24 Jul 2019 | 00:52:28 | |
I met Sarah Thebarge in Houston at a gathering of speakers and artists focused on advocating for children in poverty. I was immediately struck, not only by how articulate she was but by the depth and breadth of her definition of human flourishing. Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson NEW Single - Let Go NEW Music - Sliver of Hope NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird The Book - It Is What You Make it | |||