I originally invited Clint McCall on The Artful Painter because I wanted to talk about the preservation of Edgar Alwin Payne's legacy—and particularly the extraordinary work his father, DeWitt McCall, did to preserve Payne's work and ideas. But like many things I start to explore, things took an interesting, unexpected turn. What really surprised me was Clint himself. I was struck by Clint’s humility and modesty. Often I would ask Clint a question, and he would humble defer to his father as the real expert and authority. He readily acknowledges that his father was the real art expert. As we talked I began to realize that Clint’s story is just as important as that of his father.
You see, art wasn't in Clint McCall’s wheelhouse. Even though he as a child was thoroughly exposed to the art world by his father and his father’s gallery DeRu’s Fine Art, he chose to follow a different path. Initially, he had no intention of following his father into the art business. He spent his career in law enforcement on rose through the ranks. Indeed, he could write a book on his many exploits and accomplishments in law enforcement!
Clint’s father was unexpectedly hospitalized in 2020. Sadly his father did not survive. Upon his father’s sudden death, Clint inherited an extraordinary legacy built by his father over the course of several decades. He could not turn his back on what his father had built. So, Clint now found himself becoming the steward of his father’s legacy. That remarkable legacy included all of the paintings, books, photography, and detailed records, and books that DeWitt McCall had gathered and curated. For more than five decades, DeWitt McCall was deeply involved in the preservation, restoration, authentication, and promotion of Early California Impressionist art – including Edgar Payne. His relationship with Edgar Payne's daughter, Evelyn Payne Hatcher, eventually led him to become the representative of the Payne estate and the steward of Payne's influential book, Composition of Outdoor Painting. For Clint, it was a huge, daunting job! However, Clint quietly stepped into that role, not by pretending to be his father, but by figuring out how to preserve what his father built.
In this episode, my conversation with Clint ranges from his father DeWitt McCall’s beginnings as a framer and craftsman to his work as a restorer and art dealer; from Clint's childhood memories of the De Ru's Fine Art gallery to his first meeting with Evelyn Payne Hatcher; and from the challenges of authenticating Edgar Payne paintings to the responsibility of keeping Payne's teachings alive for another generation. Clint shares some wonderful personal stories—including the story of an Edgar Payne painting he encountered as a young man without fully realizing what he was seeing, the index-card archive his father kept on thousands of paintings, and the remarkable collection of objects from Edgar Payne's studio that Clint still has today.
So in this edition of The Artful Painter, while my original focus was to talk about the legacy of Edgar Payne—I end up exploring something much deeper and personal: what happens when an unlikely person inherits the responsibility for keeping an artist's legacy alive. These unexpected turns in conversation are the gems I look forward to uncovering when I interview someone. Talking with Clint was no exception. This episode is a human story. It’s about inheritance, responsibility, an unexpected calling finding yourself the custodian of something much larger than you could have ever imagined!
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Brad Teare - Poetry of Thick Paint
Episode 79
Friday, July 10, 2026 • Duration 01:14:43
What gives a painting the power to stop us in our tracks?
For artist Brad Teare, it’s more than subject matter. It’s the energy of the paint itself—the texture, the color, the visible record of the artist’s hand, and the courage to embrace authenticity over perfection. Brad Teare is a Utah-based painter whose expressive landscapes are known for their vibrant color, bold palette-knife work, and richly textured surfaces. Before dedicating himself to fine art, he enjoyed a successful career as an illustrator, creating work for clients including The New York Times and Random House. Today his paintings are represented by galleries throughout the American West and have been featured in numerous museum exhibitions and invitational shows.
In this episode of The Artful Painter, I sit down with Utah landscape painter Brad Teare to explore the philosophy behind his distinctive, richly textured paintings. Brad shares how his career evolved from illustration and woodcut printmaking to becoming one of today’s most recognizable painters of the American West. Along the way, we discuss how seeing Vincent van Gogh’s paintings in person changed his understanding of what paint could do, why artists should resist the temptation to imitate their heroes, and how finding your own artistic voice is a journey every artist must take alone.
One of my favorite moments in our conversation comes when Brad describes texture as more than a visual effect. Every stroke of paint records a decision, preserving the history of its creation and inviting viewers to connect with the artist in a deeply human way. It’s a fascinating discussion about why original paintings possess a presence that photographs and reproductions can never fully capture.
Whether you’re a painter searching for your own voice, a collector interested in what makes original artwork so compelling, or simply someone who appreciates thoughtful conversations about creativity, I think you’ll find plenty to enjoy in this episode.
In this episode:
How Brad transitioned from a successful illustration career into fine art
Why seeing Van Gogh’s paintings in person transformed his approach to painting
The role of texture in creating emotional impact
Thomas Windsor - From Heart to Brush
Episode 78
Thursday, May 21, 2026 • Duration 01:02:47
Doom scrolling on YouTube may usually be a waste of time but occasionally you stumble across a real, hidden gem. That happened to me a few weeks ago. I like watching YouTube videos about art and art history (and, truthfully, many other subjects). You know the way YouTube works - it takes your watch history and tries to predict other videos you might want to watch. YouTube wants you to keep watching videos - forever would be ideal for them. This was the case with my guest in this episode of The Artful Painter.
YouTube suggested to me a video on a channel called Painting Therapy, by artist and cinematographer Thomas Windsor. That expression - painting therapy - hooked me. I clicked, and I watched, and I watched, and I watched. YouTube’s algorithm was happy, and I was enthralled by what I saw and heard as Thomas painted on camera. The binge has started and I kept watching and listening to Thomas. At one point, I left one of his videos playing as I worked on a large painting. I could not see what he was doing so I just listened to him talking in the background. I usually find it highly distracting to paint with words sounding off in the background. The words through me off so it’s something I rarely ever do. I can’t listen to podcasts while I paint, nor can I listen to songs with vocals. It’s weird I know - but that’s just me. But Thomas was an exception to the rule.
After this experience, I knew I had to have Thomas Windsor on the podcast. I reached out to him and he graciously accepted. So, I’m happy to share with you our conversation in this edition of The Artful Painter. Wow! I learned a lot about Thomas in this conversation. Turns out, his day job is running a film production company. He is a cinematographer and produces commercial videos. Painting is a side-calling, but a very important one to Thomas.
To whet your appetite, here are a few things we talk about:
Thomas Windsor’s background in filmmaking and commercial production
Growing up in a strict household with limited media exposure
Committing to “a painting a week”
Why Thomas intentionally avoided formal art training
Painting as self-education and self-discovery
The connection between filmmaking and painting
Links
Debbie Mueller - A Sense of Illumination
Episode 77
Friday, April 17, 2026 • Duration 55:04
There’s a moment in life when something shifts—quietly, almost accidentally—and it takes on an unexpected new direction. For Dr. Debbie Mueller, that moment came on a rainy day in Sarasota, Florida, with a reluctant brushstroke and a “really bad painting.” It changed everything for her.
In this episode of The Artful Painter, I converse with Debbie Mueller to explore her remarkable transition from a career in medicine to becoming a full-time artist. Though she found her work as a doctor in a successful OB-GYN practice rewarding, that one “really bad painting” sparked a decade-long journey that eventually lead to her leaving medicine and to pursue painting full-time.
Debbie’s paintings are known for their luminous quality, thoughtful composition, and inviting sense of presence. She exhibits nationally, teaches workshops, and continues to expand her reach through galleries and competitions.
Here are a few tantalizing talking points Debbie shares in her conversation:
Why it’s never too late to start painting
How Debbie transitioned from medicine to full-time art
The power of daily painting challenges (and what they teach you)
A step-by-step breakdown of her painting process
How to balance self-critique without self-sabotage
Why community matters—especially for solo artists
How rejection (even at high levels) is part of the journey
Your first painting doesn’t have to be good—it just has to begin something
Growth comes from volume and repetition, not perfection
Strong artists develop self-awareness, not just technical skill
Limiting your palette can actually expand your creativity
Emotional connection matters just as much as technical accuracy
The bottom line: sometimes, all it takes is one small decision to begin. I’m sure Debbie is in for an exciting ride of her life as she pursues fine art painting full-time. I’m so glad to share with you Debbie’s story in this delightful and inspiring conversation.
Links:
Debbie Mueller Website:
Nicholas Coleman - The Lure of the West
Episode 76
Thursday, February 12, 2026 • Duration 01:00:04
In this episode of The Artful Painter, I sit down with Western artist Nicholas Coleman to talk about what actually drives his painting process — it's not just technique, but also curiosity, memory, history, and places that won't let go of you.
Raised in the studio of his father, Michael Coleman, Nicholas grew up surrounded by Native models, reference materials, taxidermy, and the working realities of the art business. What stayed with him wasn't just technique — it was a deep respect for history and for the places that shaped it.
In this episode, we discuss his return to the Coors Western Art Exhibit, the tension between authenticity and trend-chasing, his recent exploration of African wildlife inspired in part by painters like Wilhelm Kuhnert, and why he sometimes ignores deadlines to get a painting "out of his head." We also talk about art school battles, conservation history, spaghetti westerns, and what happens when an artist receives a fifty-page contract connected to George Lucas. Have I got your attention now?
If you care about painting, place, and preserving something larger than yourself, this conversation will resonate.
In this edition of the Artful Painter, I have the privilege of talking with s. m. chavez (Sean Michael Chavez). He is a native New Mexican artist known for his rich contemporary-western oil paintings that celebrate both the culture and landscape of the American Southwest. Born and raised in New Mexico, his work reflects a deep connection to the region's history and culture. Chavez is especially known for his depictions of vaqueros – figures that are deeply rooted in Southwestern and Hispanic history. Vaquero is Spanish for "cowboys."
Chavez's soothing color palette of beautiful grays and muted colors, coupled with strong design skills honed from his background in illustration come together to allow him to bring his figures and landscapes alive. His distinctive voice blends traditional Western art influences with a refreshingly contemporary approach.
It's no surprise then that Chavez has caught the eye of collectors of contemporary Western art. His work has been exhibited at major venues such as The National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum, Albuquerque Museum of Art, The Eiteljorg Museum of American Indians and Western Art, The Couse-Sharp Historic Site, and The Briscoe Western Art Museum, and soon the Coors Western Art Exhibit and Sale of January 2026.
In this engaging interview, s. m. chavez shares insights into his artistic journey, discussing the influence of his New Mexico roots and the historical narratives that shape his work. He reflects on the challenges and joys of being an artist, the importance of authenticity, and the role of literature and history in his creative process (a word you will hear Chavez use frequently in our discussion). Chavez also touches on the balance between commercial success and artistic integrity, and the evolving nature of his career.
Doug and Susie Haugen - There's a Story Behind Every Painting
Episode 74
Wednesday, October 22, 2025 • Duration 01:02:05
In each episode of The Artful Painter, the tagline (or show description) is: "Art lessons for artists, collectors, and people who love art." However, most of the episodes published so far have focused on artists and their stories. It's time to switch that up a bit and focus on collectors. In this episode I converse with two wonderful people I met a few years ago at a workshop hosted by the Booth Western Art Museum in Cartersville, Georgia. They are: Doug and Susie Haugen, art lovers who have a passion for art, art collecting, and forging friendships with living artists whose works adorn their walls in their Ackworth, Georgia, home.
Whether you are a collector or artist, you will be inspired by the Haugen's enthusiasm for supporting today's living artists. To me, one of the primary take-aways from this conversation is the importance of cultivating connections and friendships with artists and others who love art. Visiting artists in their homes, visiting galleries, and going to art shows are all a part of their joy of collecting. The bonds of friendship with living artists become an important part of the story behind each painting they display in their home.
In this episode of The Artful Painter, I have the privilege of engaging in a heartfelt conversation with Doug and Susie Haugen about their journey becoming avid art collectors. They discuss the growth of their collection, the significance of Western art (both traditional and contemporary), and the personal connections and friendships they've formed with artists. The Haugens share stories of their favorite pieces, the artists they've met, and the meaningful experiences that have shaped their collection.
Cozy up with your earbuds and a cup of coffee and listen to Doug and Susie's inspiring story. This one will make you smile.
The Artful Painter returns! It's good to be back in the saddle again.
My friend, Chris Kolupski kindly and patiently agreed to help me dust off my recording equipment and bring the Artful Painter back to life. Chris was originally featured back in episode 56 published back in 2021. That was a couple of years before we loaded up the wagons and moved to the Western Slope of Colorado.
In this edition of the Artful Painter, Chris Kolupski talks about his unique artist education experience he calls: "Paint Out West."
To me, Chris Kolupski is The Indiana Jones of Outdoor Painting – and for good reason! He's not only an excellent landscape painter and educator, he is an adventurer who loves painting the American South West. Of course, any adventure can certainly come with its own perils. Chris calmly takes these mis-adventures in stride. In this episode he shares the following experiences:
He crashed his car into a cow in the middle of the night in New Mexico!
Chris made daring attempts to rescue a camera that fell over a cliff!
He escaped prosecution after getting caught inadvertently trespassing while teaching a class.
In the middle of Navaho land, Chris founds himself on a horse that doesn't want him on his back
And then there's that time he got told off by a rude photographer in Arches National Park!
Tune in for a blend of humor, inspiration, and practical advice.
I'd like to welcome you to this edition of The Artful Painter!
Kami Mendlik's exquisite landscape paintings shimmer and vibrate with animated light and color. Her life-long journey of curiosity and keen observation of the natural world began when she was a young child. The Minnesota farmland she grew up on was fertile not just for crops, but also for a young mind curious about the wonders of the land that was her home. She was entranced by the beauty of nature's rhythm and harmony and its myriad colors.
Kami thinks of herself as a lifelong student. Each seeming advance of knowledge leads to more questions and a never-ending quest to answer them in her paintings. Her passion is the study of color. However, she does not keep what she learns to herself. Over the years she has taught well over 1,000 students a process to help achieve the illusion of light and vibration in their paintings.
Over ten years in the making, she has codified the lessons she has learned about color in a new book titled: Color Relativity–Creating the Illusion of Light With Paint. This gorgeous new book is due to be released towards the end of the summer of 2022. In this episode, Kami reveals that she has struggled with dyslexia. However, the challenge of dyslexia did not prevent her from developing a deep love of books, and the writing of Color Relativity. She opens up about what is involved in creating, editing, and publishing a quality art book.
If you were to observe Kami Mendlik painting outdoors or in her studio, just as she begins to make her colors dance, you might see a smile flicker upon her face, a slight inhale of a calming breath, and, then, with quiet abandon see her Surrender to the Process.
Greg Newbold is a fine art painter and illustrator based near Salt Lake City, Utah. Greg says that for him, "art is a soulful expression." His hope is that a piece of him comes out at the end of his brush onto the surface of a painting and connects with the spirit of the viewer.
Greg's compelling visions of the American West are distilled through the filter of his own life experiences. Building upon that, he applies his own unique creative filters of simplification, light, color, shape, and texture. This creative alchemy results in paintings that feature bold composition, strong value structure, sensitive color, and intriguing narrative.
Greg's evocative, contemporary paintings are eagerly desired by collectors from around the globe. Greg characterizes his approach to painting as Stylized Realism. Greg explains how his experience as an illustrator helped him develop a diverse vocabulary that he can draw upon for his oil paintings. He explains that doing the hard work of putting in the brush mileage he put into his illustrations and paintings allowed his unique voice to appear naturally.
Greg gained valuable insights into how many famous artists worked as he developed the illustrations in a series of children's books authored by his wife, Amy. The first of these books is titled, If Picasso Painter a Snowman. That successful volume was followed up by, If da Vinci Painted a Dinosaur, which includes a recreation of Coolidge's famous Dogs Playing Poker painting reimagined as Dinosaurs Playing Poker. For each book, Greg did a deep dive into the methods of famous artists so that he could create the whimsical paintings used in each book. Greg is comfortable with both traditional and digital techniques. He embraces the use of technology where it makes sense to do so in his art.
Greg and his wife Amy are also active in encouraging youth in schools with their delightful lectures about art and art-making. Greg loves to award each student with their own copy of a Creative License. The students are encouraged to express themselves and create art in their own voice, in their own way. No one can tell them they have to do it just one way because now they have their own Creative License. Personally, I think no matter how young or old we are, we can all use Greg's Creative License!
Painting outdoors is an important component of Greg's artmaking. Even more important to Greg is also painting outdoors with others who are much better than he is. It is key to his artistic growth. Greg explains why he is drawn to painting landscapes inspired by the South West. He discusses how he develops a painting and how he upscales a painting from a study and the challenges involved in doing so. He talks about the materials he likes to use, and the effects his mark-making leaves on the surface of each of his paintings.
How woodcut printmaking continues to influence his paintings
Why authenticity matters more than technical perfection
What collectors see—and feel—when standing in front of an original painting
Thanks for listening to The Artful Painter. If you enjoy these conversations, please consider sharing the podcast with a fellow artist or art lover.
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Why painting feels more personal and vulnerable than filmmaking
The difference between technical perfection and emotional authenticity
The influence of Vincent van Gogh on Thomas’s thinking about art and emotion
Creativity as a direct emotional expression rather than a technical exercise
The dangers of overthinking and perfectionism
“Painting Therapy” and art as emotional regulation
Depression, sensitivity, and the search for meaning
Observing everyday beauty and “being an artist” in daily life
The importance of presence, attention, and wonder
That’s a lot to process in about an hour, but, shazaam! What an hour it was for me to converse with Thomas. I hope you enjoy this episode.
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Other Links:
A Harvest of Reluctant Souls: Fray Alonso de Benavides's History of New Mexico, 1630: https://amzn.to/4beLYpt
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Just as the ancient cliffs of sandstone show evidence of the effect of the relentless forces of water and wind, so do the tactile, expressive marks upon the surface of a Greg Newbold painting give Evidence of Process.
This page may contain affiliate links from which I earn a small commission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
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