In this episode, I sit down with Kendra Koch, the founder of Divergently, a private community built for late-diagnosed neurodivergent women who want clarity, support, and a softer landing than the internet usually offers.

Kendra came to this work through her own late diagnosis, years spent in the Silicon Valley wellness world, and a growing sense that the tools available to neurodivergent women were either too shallow, too loud, or too overwhelming to actually use. What started as her personal search for answers eventually became Divergently- a curated, trauma-aware space built to help women understand themselves and make daily life feel less chaotic and more doable.

We cover a lot in this conversation, including:

• What it feels like to receive a diagnosis later in life
• Why so many women only start connecting the dots after their kids begin evaluations
• The emotional and logistical realities of navigating care, systems, stigma, and uncertainty
• How trauma keeps showing up in ways many of us don’t expect
• The difference between “having information” and actually being supported
• Why “just disclose at work” isn’t simple — or safe — advice for everyone
• How creating boundaries inside a community can be what makes it truly inclusive
• The small, practical shifts that make life less prickly: body doubling, environmental tweaks, lowering the bar in smart, supportive ways
• And how Kendra is building a company while raising a young child, healing, and moving at a pace that fits her real life — not the one hustle culture demands

This conversation is thoughtful, honest, and full of moments that made me rethink how we support ourselves and each other. If you’ve ever felt like something wasn’t quite adding up, or you’ve been searching for a place that feels safe and steady, you’ll feel seen here.

Where to find Kendra:

Website: joinedivergently.com

Social: @joinedivergently

LinkedIn: Kendra Koch

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @mydovetail.app

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

For more than 100 episodes, AND/BOTH has shared conversations with women navigating identity, care, and capacity — and this week, the conversation widens.

In this episode, I sit down with Michael Perry, founder and CEO of Maple, to talk about what it means to be part of what he calls “the transition generation” — a time when fathers are learning to show up differently, families are renegotiating what partnership looks like, and the systems that support us are still catching up.

Michael is a father of two, a husband, and a founder who’s building technology designed to make the invisible work of family visible, to help parents collaborate better, share responsibilities, and stay connected in the chaos.

We talk about what’s shifting in modern parenthood, what’s still broken, and how we can bring more empathy, participation, and grace into our homes, without turning our families into another project to manage.

• What it means to be part of the “transition generation” of fathers
• Why partnership is more than division of labor, it’s shared leadership
• The systems that fail families (and what it might look like to rebuild them)
• How to have better conversations at home about what’s working and what isn’t
• The difference between intention and participation
• Why grace and gratitude are essential tools in family life
• And how to find your 8 out of 10 days — the perspective shift that can change everything

• You’re navigating how to balance partnership and parenting in real life
• You’re curious about how fathers are experiencing this cultural shift
• You want to build more empathy and communication at home
• You’re ready to talk about family as shared work — not a scorecard

• Maple: growmaple.com
• Follow Michael Perry: @michaelperry | LinkedIn: Michael Perry
• Connect with Maple: @growmaple

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @mydovetail.app

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Today’s episode goes behind the scenes with my roundtable cohost, Erin, host of the PG-ish Podcast. Even though we live on opposite sides of the country and have never met in person, Erin and I can dive into honest conversations and share truths that aren’t often talked about. We chat about our own podcasts, motherhood, where we’re heading next, and what’s fueling these episodes. We believe that community, whether virtual or in-person, truly matters, and we hope to share that community with you, the listener, as well.

Show links:

• Erin: PG-ish Podcast

Listen to our roundtables:

◦ Episode 75: Caregiving, Careers & the Cost of Being "Fine"

◦ Episode 79: From Lost to Found: How Moms are Redefining Identity & Belonging

◦ Episode 85: Burned Out? How to Redefine Success in Work and Motherhood

◦ Episode 91: The Emotional Cost of Doing It All

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @mydovetail.app

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Christina Bogatsky is a mom of two and has her own coaching practice; Totally Fine Coaching. Before having children she spent nearly two decades in the corporate world. Motherhood rocked her world and in today’s conversation she shares the trials and tribulations she’s learned along the way.

We discuss how motherhood opened up her eyes to the small things and allowed her to figure out what really matters. Christina also shares how she had to learn that even five minutes of daily self-care lead to monumental change. These habits also were a great demonstration to her children that moms are still allowed time for themselves in motherhood.

Christina also shares how she was able to transition from trying to meet society's standards and expectations to choosing her own. She gives a hot take on not wanting the obedient child and opens up about how much parenting of herself she had to do once becoming a parent.

Follow Christina:

Instagram

Website

Podcast

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Today I am sitting down with the very talented, multi-dimensional Hive Co-Founder & CEO Andrea Sommer. Andrea and I first met when I was a participant in the Hive Investment Readiness Accelerator. She is also a mom to an almost five year old daughter and today’s episode is all about showing up as your whole self in entrepreneurship.

Andrea shares the backstory of Hive and how it started organically as a support group in a friend’s basement. It has now grown into a global startup accelerator with over 1200 members. In this episode Andrea shares how motherhood has taught her one of the most important lessons entrepreneurs can learn; how to say no. She has also flipped the script on the idea of having to hide our children in order to seem professional. Through Hive, she has created a company where women can unapologetically show up as their whole selves.

If you’re interested in learning more about how to raise venture capital as an entrepreneur be sure to check out Hive’s website below. I can personally attest to the benefits of joining the program. If you have questions about my experience, don’t hesitate to reach out.

www.hivefounders.net

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

The lovely Dr. Dara Storch of Seacoast Mobile Physical Therapy is our guest today. Dara has two grade school aged kids who love all things sports. She’s busy juggling her own PT practice while trying to find quality time to spend with her family. We are covering all things kids and managing your own business in today’s conversation.

Dr. Dara has a fresh take on the struggle of wanting to teach your kids the everyday mundane tasks but feeling the urge of just doing them yourself because it’s easier. She also shares her personal experience of launching a business, during the middle of a pandemic, while her children were home. 

Starting your own business can be great when it's great, but when it’s not, it’s hard. Dara explains how in the beginning of her entrepreneurial journey she had to figure out who to take advice from, where to spend money, and the necessity of finding resources she could trust. She realizes that it’s sometimes necessary to wear all the hats of a business owner but she’s constantly working toward getting back to the area of business that she truly loves; being a PT.

Email Dr. Dara

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Our very first guest on the AND/BOTH podcast is Rachel Mae. She hosts the podcast Mama’s Cup of Ambition, is the mama to two little boys and is a country singer/songwriter. In this episode Rachel shares her story of feeling the juxtaposition of being pulled towards both motherhood and her career as a creative artist at the same time.

We cover how Rachel is in the in-between phase of figuring out how to be both a mom and a professional artist. She is realizing that the longer she stays away from the music scene, the harder it is to get back into it. So rather than being able to go on a week-long retreat and write lyrics the whole time, she is now picking up the guitar in the living room and having a jam session while her kids are present.

Motherhood transforms us all. And Rachel shares a beautiful analogy toward the end of our conversation about comparing motherhood to the process of a caterpillar molding into a butterfly. She reminds us that it can be dark and mushy but in the end you’d never want to go back to not being able to fly. We’re still the same person we were before becoming a mom, so let’s not forget to honor and advocate for her both in and out of our roles as mom.

Connect with Rachel

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Welcome to the AND/BOTH Podcast. I’m so excited that you’re here. I’m Dr. Ashley Blackington, your host. I am a mom to four kids and have over 12 years of experience as an Occupational Therapist. In this very first episode I explain what an OT does and share how becoming a mom is what catapulted my transition into being a business owner.

I started my entrepreneurship journey as an OT consultant but when the pandemic hit, and my husband had to go back to work right away I realized that I was getting lost in motherhood. So, I created Dovetail Designs Co.; a planning system where you, as mom, are able to find time for what you truly enjoy outside of motherhood.

We can all agree that we love our kids. There’s no doubt about that. But my goal with this podcast is to help you figure out what else you enjoy beyond motherhood. One of my favorite questions to ask is, “What do you like to do for fun?” If you struggle to answer that, number one you’re not alone and number two - this podcast is for you.

We will hear from all kinds of moms and listen to what lights them up. What brings them joy? What are they working on? My goal is to bring people on who you can relate to. I want to create a space for you to be fully seen and acknowledged for who you are outside of your role as a mom.

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Send us a Text Message.

Hear from moms in all different scenarios doing their absolute best to honor themselves as individuals in a world that would prefer, as mothers, we not. ⁠
⁠
Hear from moms who are trying to figure out what that "something" is after the life altering transition into motherhood.⁠
⁠
Hear from moms that say "I know I need to do something for myself and this is what it is, but it feels impossible to do it"⁠
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What is the AND/BOTH that you are juggling with motherhood? Career, hobbies, entrepreneurship, new identity, new activities, new passions and interests?⁠

Support the Show.

Connect with Ashley:
Website: https://dovetaildesigns.co
Support AND/BOTH: Help us offset production costs while we're growing
Dovetail® Schedule Academy: https://dovetaildesigns.co/dovetail-schedule-academy
Caregiver by Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-co/id6449788093

Social:
Instagram: @dovetaildesigns.co
TikTok: @dovetaildesigns.co
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dovetaildesigns.co
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Career. Parenthood. Flexibility. For so long, we’ve been told these choices are black and white- either you stay in the workforce full-time or you step away completely.

This week's episode features Kaleana Quibbell, a mom and corporate veteran who is challenging that story. After leaving her corporate career in internal benefits consulting, Kaleana built a new path as a part-time consultant and mom of two and in the process, she discovered countless other parents designing careers that don’t fit the old mold.

Kaleana founded Both And, a storytelling platform where parents share their journeys of reimagining work—whether that means consulting, freelancing, part-time roles, job-sharing, or simply advocating for more flexibility at work.

In this conversation, we explore:

• Why work and parenthood don’t have to be either/or
• The fears and freedom of leaving corporate life
• How consulting and part-time work can keep parents connected and relevant
• The importance of separating your expertise from your employer’s name
• Why companies need to rethink flexibility if they want to keep great talent

Kaleana’s perspective is honest, practical, and deeply encouraging. She reminds us that there’s no one right way to combine work and family, and that we all benefit from seeing what’s possible.

Connect with Kaleana:

• Website: bothand.co
• Instagram: @bothand.co
• LinkedIn: Both And

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

If you grew up in the 80s or 90s, you probably remember “the talk”, one awkward, fluorescent-lit conversation at school or a quick birds-and-bees download from your parents. But as parents today, we know it doesn’t work like that anymore.

In this episode of AND/BOTH, I sit down with returning guest Angie Enger, a sex and self-intimacy coach, parent, and former teen clinic sex ed teacher, to talk about what it really looks like to have ongoing conversations with our kids about sex, consent, bodies, and relationships.

In this conversation:

• Why you’ve probably already started “the talk” without realizing it
• How to move beyond mechanics to values, boundaries, and consent
• The role of partners (and why these aren’t just “mom conversations”)
• What to do when kids bring home confusing or surprising language
• How to find trusted resources and other adults to support these conversations
• Why messing up or changing your answer later is not only okay, but healthy

Whether you’re parenting a curious five-year-old or a tween who suddenly knows more slang than you do, this conversation is here to remind you: you don’t have to be perfect, you just have to keep showing up.

Resources Mentioned:

• TalkMore.org — conversation guides, age-appropriate tips, book lists
• Magnificent Sex (book by Peggy J. Kleinplatz & A. Dana Ménard)
• The Pregnant Body Book (DK Publishing)
• Recommended children’s books on body parts and puberty (Angie suggests buying both the “penis” and “vulva” versions!)

About Angie:

Angie Enger is a sex and self-intimacy coach with a background in counseling and human sexuality. She works with individuals and couples to strengthen their relationships with themselves and each other. Angie is also a parent navigating these conversations in real life, and she brings both expertise and lived experience to the table.

Connect with Angie: http://angieenger.com or

https://www.instagram.com/angieengercoach

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this deeply honest and nourishing conversation, I’m joined by grief educator, somatic practitioner, and trauma-informed coach Mandy Capehart for a conversation that reaches far beyond loss—and straight into how we live, parent, and show up for ourselves and each other in the messiness of life.

Mandy shares her personal journey through profound grief, including the loss of her mother and the unraveling of her previous life in the wake of that loss. We talk about the myth of “moving on,” what it means to support others in grief without needing to fix it, and how accepting grief as a lifelong companion (rather than a problem to solve) opens us up to deeper compassion, rest, and wholeness.

In this conversation:

• How grief lives in parenting—and why modeling rest, boundaries, and vulnerability for our kids matters
• The emotional labor of managing other people’s discomfort while you’re the one grieving
• Why “urgent healing” is a lie and grief is never a one-and-done
• What grief literacy is and how it can help us be better humans to each other
• How community care (even snack prep!) is part of real support

Mandy’s work reminds us that we don’t have to be “fully put together” to be worthy of care or capable of growth. And if you’ve ever felt like you had to keep it all together while quietly falling apart, this episode is for you.

Connect with Mandy:

Website: MandyCapehart.com

Instagram & Threads: @MandyCapehart

Twitter: @MandyCapehart

BlueSky: @mandycapehart.bsky.social

Podcast: Restorative Grief with Mandy Capehart

The Guidebook: https://amzn.to/3XiqXm9

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mandycapehart

Ebook (giveaway for your audience): https://www.mandycapehart.com/freeguide/

Enneagram specific ebook: https://www.mandycapehart.com/enneagramebook/

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this powerful and unfiltered roundtable episode, Ashley and Erin sit down with Heather Chauvin and Amri Kibbler, two women who have faced the unthinkable: a cancer diagnosis in the middle of motherhood, business, and everyday survival.

Together, they open up about the moments they knew something was wrong, the delays in care, and how deeply ingrained patterns of people-pleasing and self-neglect played a role in their stories. But this conversation goes beyond cancer—it’s about reclaiming your intuition, setting real boundaries, and redefining what it means to take care of yourself as a woman and a mother.

Inside this episode, we explore:

• The moment you know something is wrong but keep pushing through
• What it means to advocate for yourself when no one else is
• How emotional labor and caregiving become invisible burdens
• Burnout, grief, and the realities of parenting while healing
• Letting go of friendships and roles that no longer serve you
• Why self-care isn’t a spa day—it’s a survival strategy
• Rebuilding your life with intention after everything falls apart

This conversation is about what happens when you finally stop carrying everyone else and realize you’ve been disappearing in the process.

Connect with Heather:

https://heatherchauvin.com/time

https://www.instagram.com/heatherchauvin_/

Connect with Amri:

https://www.instagram.com/amrikibbler/

https://www.amrikibbler.com/

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Ashley is solo this week to talk about caregiving, creativity, and what it really means to support mothers as whole people. She shares updates on her digital platform Dovetail, reopens consulting hours under Home Field Advantage, and introduces two exciting new offerings: the And/Both Community (now open!) and the Nurtured Entrepreneur Retreat (coming 2026).

This is a personal episode about honoring the invisible work caregivers do—and why it’s time we make space for their dreams, too.

• Why caregiving is foundational to our economy—and how we can better support those holding it all together
• How the Dovetail platform simplifies care coordination for families navigating aging, illness, or long-distance caregiving
• The importance of honest conversations about aging, autonomy, and asking for help—before a crisis hits
• How to reclaim creative space as a caregiver or mom—including a sneak peek at the upcoming Nurtured Entrepreneur Retreat

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this throwback episode, Ashley sits down with Nicole Lenzen—a solo mom by choice, former wedding dress designer, tech consultant, and now a coach specializing in parental leave transitions. Nicole shares her unique journey through multiple career paths, a major health wake-up call, and the decision to become a solo parent. After navigating an overwhelming return-to-work experience post-leave, she pivoted into coaching to help others through similar transitions.

In this conversation:

• Why Nicole chose solo motherhood and how her medical diagnosis shaped that decision
• Her nonlinear career—from Silicon Valley to couture bridal design to corporate consulting
• The messiness and mismanagement of parental leave policies in the U.S
• How chronic stress manifests physically—and how that led to Nicole’s shift toward a values-aligned life
• Creating human-centered systems within corporate culture
• Her current work helping both individuals and companies navigate parental leave with empathy and structure

This episode is filled with powerful reflections on identity, intergenerational trauma, and how corporate systems often fail parents—especially mothers. Nicole and Ashley talk honestly about the emotional and logistical load of parenthood, lack of support in the workplace, and how change is slowly being pushed forward by people who are no longer willing to “stick their head in the blender” and pretend it’s normal.

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In today's episode, we chat with Abby Wachoff, an occupational therapist and mother, to discuss the profound impact of losing her sister to cancer. Abby shares her raw and heartfelt journey through grief, how it reshaped her life and career, and her decision to pursue a master's in mental health counseling. They delve into the complexities of motherhood, grief, and the importance of being present. Abby's story of resilience and transformation offers valuable insights and a reminder that 'nothing is wasted.'

Connect with Abby:

Instagram: @mother.lover.ot

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode of AND/BOTH, we’re joined by creative visionary and women’s health advocate Amri Kibbler for a raw and necessary conversation about burnout, motherhood, entrepreneurship, and surviving not one but two colon cancer diagnoses. Amri shares how she went from editor at Glamour and co-founder of the 75,000+ member HeyMama community to navigating medical gaslighting, missed diagnoses, and the fight to be heard.

We explore how slowing down became Amri’s greatest act of self-preservation, how she’s redefined ambition and healing, and why listening to your body might just save your life. Whether you’re juggling business and babies or pushing through when your body says stop, this episode is a heartfelt reminder to tune in, speak up, and prioritize your health.

In this conversation:

• Amri’s early media career and building the HeyMama network
• The warning signs she missed, and how long it took to get diagnosed
• Navigating colon cancer during the pandemic with young kids and a growing company
• The emotional toll of looking “fine” while being critically ill
• Creating a personal care team and journaling symptoms to advocate for yourself
• Why colon cancer is rising in younger adults and what screenings are essential
• The importance of redefining success and slowing down—especially as a mom and entrepreneur

Links to resources on Colorectal Cancer:

Statistics: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/types/colon-rectal-cancer/about/key-statistics.html

Risk Factors: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/types/colon-rectal-cancer/causes-risks-prevention/risk-factors.html

Screening: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/types/colon-rectal-cancer/detection-diagnosis-staging/screening-tests-used.html

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

What if building a sustainable business and raising a family didn’t have to feel like a juggling act? In this episode of the And Both podcast, we’re joined by Jac White, founder of Honeybees Group and self-proclaimed “anti-make-seven-figures-in-your-sleep-by-posting-on-Instagram” sales coach. Jac gets real about building businesses, motherhood, and the money myths holding so many women back. With zero fluff and all the practical strategy, she shares how to figure out your Enough Number, why community support is the secret sauce, and how to finally start selling in a way that feels human. Whether you’re a mompreneur in the messy middle or dreaming of ditching corporate life, this conversation will leave you feeling fired up and fully seen.

In this conversation:

• How to calculate your “Enough Number” to create realistic, sustainable business goals
• Why most women undercharge and how to start asking for what you’re actually worth
• The difference between real sales strategy and Instagram illusion
• How Jac transitioned from corporate to consulting to community-building
• Why relationship-driven selling is the game-changer for service-based businesses

Questions Answered in This Episode:

• What’s the first step you should take before setting your revenue goal?
• Why do women (especially moms) hesitate to call themselves “salespeople”?
• What are the biggest tax pitfalls new business owners face and how can you avoid them?
• How can you build true connection and community without burning out?
• What does it actually look like to raise a family while running a business?

Connect with Jac White:

Website: honeybeesgroup.co

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I sit down with Jennifer Westpfahl, founder of Be.Retreats, to talk about what it looks like to build a life and a business that make space for rest, intention, stillness, and connection — and how those four pillars spell something else entirely: RISK.

Jennifer shares the winding story of how B-Retreats came to life, not from a business plan or a strategic vision, but from a feeling that just wouldn’t go away. What began as a simple women’s weekend at a cabin has evolved into a growing series of in-person and virtual retreats designed to help people slow down, reconnect, and live with more authenticity.

We talk about:

🌿 The unexpected journey of saying “yes” to something before you have it all figured out

💛 How rest can feel risky in a world that glorifies busyness

🪞 The identity shifts that come with motherhood, empty nests, and growing older

🔥 Why community and connection matter more than perfection

🕯️ And what it really means to stop — not just pause — and allow yourself to be

Connect with Jennifer:

Website: beretreats.co

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jmwestpfahl/

Be.Retreats Instagram: @beretreatsmn

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @mydovetail.app

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this powerful roundtable conversation, Ashley Blackington is joined again by Erin Holland (PG-ish Podcast), Dr. Sheryl Ziegler (psychologist and author of Mommy Burnout), and Alison Campbell (founder of Unburnt) for an honest, timely deep dive into burnout, what it looks like, what it feels like, and what it takes to truly recover. From the physical and emotional toll to the identity-shifting wake-up calls, this episode is both validating and empowering for anyone trying to do it all while feeling crispy around the edges.

In this conversation:

• The three core hallmarks of burnout and how to recognize them early
• How chronic stress manifests physically and why completing the stress cycle is essential
• The surprising connection between infertility and stress
• How burnout impacts career-driven women, working moms, and caregivers differently
• What to do when your dream job becomes unsustainable
• How our definitions of success (and workplace values) are evolving with new generations
• Practical tools for burnout recovery and sustainable well-being
• Why community connection is more powerful than cucumbers on your eyes

Connect with Alison:

Website: https://www.getunburnt.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/get_unburnt/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alison-campbell-3035b63/

Connect with Dr. Ziegler:

Website: http://www.drsherylziegler.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drsherylziegler/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drsherylziegler/

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Gabs Hayes, entrepreneurial mother of three and founder of The Village community, shares her powerful journey from corporate burnout to intentional living. After experiencing the stillborn loss of her son seven years ago, Gabs began questioning everything she thought life was supposed to be. In this raw and honest conversation, she discusses how she and her family have lived as "slow nomads" across seven states in 11 years, why she shut down her seven-figure consulting business after reaching complete burnout and suicidal ideation, and how she's rebuilt her life around presence and intentionality. Gabs opens up about rejecting the "shoulds" of traditional parenting and business, the reality of mental health struggles as an entrepreneur and mother, and why "balance is bullshit" when you're trying to do life and business simultaneously.

In this conversation:

• How to recognize the difference between everyday stress and true burnout that requires immediate attention and intervention
• Why waiting for "someday" to live the life you want is a dangerous gamble - and how to start making changes now
• The power of questioning every "should" in your life and determining which expectations are self-imposed versus actually necessary
• How to navigate major life transitions (like business pivots or family changes) while maintaining your mental health and family stability
• Why community and authentic connection are essential for parents building businesses, not just nice-to-haves
• How to set boundaries with school activities, volunteer requests, and social expectations without guilt
• The importance of living intentionally in the present rather than constantly chasing future goals or dwelling on past decisions
• How to recognize when your current path (even a successful one) is no longer aligned with who you're becoming
• Why it's okay to hate certain aspects of parenting while still being a good parent - and how to be honest about those struggles
• How to build a life strategy that works for your family rather than following someone else's blueprint for success
• The value of taking alone time and mini-sabbaticals to prevent burnout and maintain clarity
• How to find and create authentic community as a parent, both online and in-person, especially when you're not naturally social

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/`

In today's episode, Ashley chats with Amy Leclerc, co-owner and president of franchising at Sit Still Kids, shares her journey from magazine publishing in NYC to scaling boutique fitness with Bar Method to revolutionizing the children's haircare industry. In this conversation, Amy discusses how she's built multiple franchise businesses while raising two kids, the importance of work-life integration over balance, and why she believes there's a huge untapped market in specialized services for children. She opens up about navigating the messy middle of parenting teens, the changing landscape of education and career paths, and how taking exceptional care of yourself isn't selfish—it's essential for showing up as your best self in all areas of life.

In this conversation:

• How to identify and capitalize on underserved markets (like the 1:92,500 ratio of kids' salons to children under 12)

• The difference between building a business versus building a brand, and why that distinction matters for scalability

• How to navigate major career transitions while growing a family without sacrificing either

• Why work-life integration beats work-life balance, and how companies like Bar Method pioneered flexible work cultures long before it was trendy

• The reality of franchise development and what it takes to scale from one location to 150+ nationwide

• How to maintain your entrepreneurial edge while co-parenting teens who are figuring out their own paths

• Why the traditional college-to-career pipeline might not be the best option for every kid (and the alternatives worth considering)

• The importance of modeling resilience and showing your children that adults are still learning and growing too

• How to practice "exceptional self-care" as a busy parent and business owner without guilt

• Why intuition is an underrated but essential business skill, and how to develop your ability to spot trends before they become mainstream

Connect with Amy Leclerc

Website: sitstillkids.com

Instagram: @sitstillkids

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this candid and eye-opening conversation, Ashley welcomes Angie Anger, a self intimacy and sex coach, to the And Both Podcast. Angie shares her non-linear journey from counseling and corporate marketing to becoming a coach who helps women and femmes reconnect with their bodies, pleasure, and self-worth—especially through the lens of motherhood and long-term partnership. With empathy, humor, and a refreshing dose of honesty, they discuss desire types, communication barriers, emotional labor, and how parenthood reshapes intimacy. Angie reminds us: you’re not broken, you’re just human.

In this conversation:

• The difference between responsive vs. spontaneous desire (and why most women aren’t broken)
• Why connection and self-intimacy matter more than scheduled sex
• How shifting your mindset from performance to play can transform your relationship
• The sex spiral of doom that many moms fall into—and how to break it
• How motherhood, aging, and identity shifts influence desire and pleasure
• Why Angie only works with individuals and not couples (and how it helps)
• Real talk on body image, communication breakdowns, and the dishes fight
• Coaching insights that help moms reclaim their pleasure on their own terms
• Angie’s advice for the mom who feels unseen, unsexy, and unsure where to start
• A preview of part two: how to talk to your kids about sex, bodies, and consent

Connect with Angie:

IG: @angieengercoach

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Ashley Blackington welcomes Julie Cole, co-founder of Mabel’s Labels, for a rich conversation on motherhood, entrepreneurship, and building a life and business that actually works. Julie shares her journey from lawyer to mom of six to label mogul, and all the messy, meaningful moments in between. She opens up about flexible work, raising independent kids, and the unfiltered truth of growing a business out of a basement into a beloved international brand. Expect inspiration, humor, and hard-won wisdom from someone who’s done it all, with a label for literally everything.

In this conversation:

• What inspired Julie to leave law and launch Mabel’s Labels with her sisters
• How entrepreneurship evolved alongside raising six kids (yes, six!)
• The mental load of motherhood and how to protect your identity through it
• Real talk on flexibility, burnout, and the myth of #BossMom
• The role of community, visibility, and mentorship in building a sustainable business

Questions answered in this episode:

• How do you balance entrepreneurship with parenting, especially in the early years?
• What conversations and sacrifices are required when leaving a traditional career?
• How did Julie and her co-founders grow Mabel’s Labels without social media?
• What lessons does she share with new founders and mompreneurs today?
• How can women show up as leaders and still prioritize their families?

Connect with Julie Cole:

• Website: mabelslabels.com/juliecole
• Instagram: @juliecole
• LinkedIn: Julie Cole
• Book: Like a Mother: Birthing Businesses, Babies, and a Life Beyond Labels

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this candid and insightful episode of AND/BOTH, host Ashley Blackington sits down with Tricia Mirchandani, founder and creative director of T Collective, to explore what it really looks like to build a business on your own terms. They dive into the realities of parenting in the digital age, the winding road of creative entrepreneurship, and how Tricia is using her career to build a better front door not just for herself, but for others. Together, they discuss how to raise social media-literate kids, manage work-life flexibility, and navigate the unglamorous but powerful side of growing in public.

In this conversation:

• Why social media education is the new “driver’s ed” for kids
• How to model healthy digital habits at home
• What it means to re-launch your career after a “failed” freelance attempt
• How Tricia built T Collective after a corporate career in hospitality marketing
• The difference between great copywriting and strategic brand storytelling
• The power of LinkedIn to rebuild and rebrand
• Why Tricia believes in side doors, collective success, and paying it forward
• How family rhythms and business goals can support (not compete) with each other
• The impact of digital transparency on kids’ social awareness
• Why the ability to mute a group text might just be the ultimate life skill

Connect with Tricia Mirchandani:

• Website: https://triciamirchandani.com/
• Business site: https://www.withtcollective.com/
• Instagram: @with.t.collective
• LinkedIn: Tricia Mirchandani

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In today's roundtable episode, Ashley and Erin chat with two women building deeply human solutions for working moms: Kate Tovsen, founder of The Society of Working Moms and Kate Tovsen Media, and Alli Kushner, founder of BeeKyn, a soon-to-launch playdate matching and scheduling platform for modern families.

This honest, wide-ranging discussion explores why loneliness is a shared, but rarely talked about part of motherhood, especially for those balancing careers, businesses, and caregiving. Each guest offers a unique lens into how accessible community, supportive tools, and even digital innovation like asynchronous connection or curated online spaces can create more room for joy, help, and human connection in this messy middle of parenting.

Whether you’re raising toddlers or teens, running a company or running late to pickup, this conversation will help you feel seen, and remind you that building meaningful community is possible, even in a world that feels increasingly noisy and disconnected.

In this conversation:

• Why 70% of moms report feeling lonely—and what to do about it
• How motherhood changes your ability to connect (and what community can look like now)
• Why the “right” community for you will change over time
• The difference between joining a community and staying in one
• How tech can support, not replace, real-life connection
• Tips for building your own support network, even in small, siloed ways
• How parenting, business, and identity overlap in real-world community-building
• Why perfection isn’t the point—starting messy is often the key

Connect with Alli:

• Website: https://allikushner.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisonkushner/
• allikushner.com
• BeeKyn

Connect with Kate:

• katetovsenmedia.com
• Society of Working Moms

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, Ashley is joined by Joselyne Walter, a first-generation Latina business owner, marketing expert, and founder of The DIGG Agency. With a background in dispatching 36,000 truckloads a month and leading marketing efforts for some of the top companies on the Fortune 500 list, Joselyne shares her powerful journey from supply chain to C-suite to self-employment.

Their conversation dives into how she built a scalable agency rooted in sustainable growth, why she walked away from corporate leadership, and how AI is reshaping not just her work—but her parenting. From career pivots to teaching kids about tech to redefining success on your own terms, Joselyne’s story will resonate with anyone navigating ambition and real life at the same time.

In this conversation:

• How Joselyne transitioned from dispatch supervisor to marketing director to agency founder
• The meaning of sustainable growth—and how to actually build a business around it
• How she’s using AI to increase efficiency and reduce overwhelm
• Ways to introduce AI tools to your kids (and have fun doing it!)
• Why giving yourself permission to grow slowly might be your smartest move
• The impact of being raised by immigrant parents on her entrepreneurial mindset
• How to work smarter (not harder) using tools and delegation

Questions Answered in This Episode:

• How do you pivot from a nontraditional career path into entrepreneurship?
• What does building a sustainable business as a mom really look like?
• How is AI changing the way marketers and entrepreneurs operate daily?
• Can AI actually support creativity, parenting, and project planning?
• What mindset shifts are needed when leaving a high-level corporate job?
• How can we teach our kids to be responsible and creative with AI?
• What does prioritization look like when you have limited time and big goals?
• What are the risks and opportunities AI brings to future generations?
• How does someone with limited formal education raise a child who leads at the highest level?

Connect with Joselyne Walter:

• Website: www.thediggagency.com

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode of the AND/BOTH podcast, Ashley sits down with Mary D’Agostino, mother of five, grandmother of seven, intuitive healer, and author—to explore the evolving identity of motherhood across decades. As the show’s first grandmother guest, Mary brings a grounded, wisdom-filled perspective to the conversation, touching on everything from teen pregnancy and single motherhood to building a life that reflects your truest self. With warmth, candor, and a touch of humor, Mary invites listeners to pause, reflect, and trust their inner voice through every season of life.

In this conversation:

• What it means to create a life that truly belongs to you
• How motherhood evolves across generations—and what stays the same
• The importance of listening to your intuition, especially when the world gets loud
• Why the stories and support of those ahead of us matter so deeply
• How generational healing, grief, and caregiving shape identity
• The power of saying a firm “no” when something doesn’t resonate
• Ways to center yourself during life transitions—without “burning it all down”
• Why showing up for yourself is showing up for your family
• How Mary ended up sharing her story on Oprah (!)
• How modern motherhood can reclaim agency without the pressure to perform

Connect with Mary D’Agostino:

Website: www.marydagostino.com

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this behind-the-scenes solo episode, Ashley offers a much-needed update and peek into what’s happening on and off the mic. From wrapping up Season 7 and kicking off Season 8 with a brand-new roundtable series, to pressing pause on summer recording and launching a care logistics platform years in the making—this episode is full of transitions, clarity, and new beginnings. Ashley also shares the personal “why” behind Dovetail, her care coordination tool built from years of experience as an OT and caregiver advocate.

In this conversation:

• Why Season 8 is already shaping up to be the biggest yet
• The story behind the new Roundtable Series (and how it came to be)
• What summer looks like when you’re running a business and parenting
• Why the podcast recording calendar is going dark until September
• A peek into Ashley’s changing season of life—with all kids headed to school
• The origin story of Dovetail, a care logistics platform built for family caregivers
• How Ashley’s work as an occupational therapist shaped the platform’s mission
• Why care planning needs to start before crisis mode hits
• The demographic time bomb facing the caregiving system
• How Dovetail aims to make caregiving more collaborative, connected, and sustainable

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this second half of my 100th episode conversation with my friend and poet Megan Leonard, we talk about what happens when we finally start letting go of what’s not working.

We call it The Colander List — a way of noticing what’s naturally slipping through, what’s too heavy to hold, and what we might finally have permission to set down.

This conversation isn’t about getting more efficient or organized. It’s about capacity, trust, and the space we create when we stop trying to do it all.

Meg and I talk about:

🌀 What it looks like to stop chasing balance and start listening to yourself

🌿 The difference between quitting and releasing

💛 How friendship holds up a mirror when we’re growing

✨ And how joy shows up when we finally make room for it

These 100 episodes have been about showing up for honest, human conversations, the kind that remind us we don’t have to do it all to live fully.

Connect with Meg:

Instagram: @megan_leonardpoetry

Books: Book of Lullabies (Milk & Cake Press) and Larkspur Queen (Broadstone Books)

1:1 Writing Mentorship: DM Meg on Instagram; mention AND/BOTH for her 2025 pricing if you book your intake before Dec 31

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Podcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @mydovetail.app

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this first-ever collaborative roundtable with the PG-ish Podcast, Ashley Blackington and Erin Holland welcome powerhouse thought leaders Jess Ringgenberg (Elixir Coaching) and Leslie Forde (Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs) to unpack the real, raw, and research-backed realities of modern motherhood, caregiving, and careers. From burnout to benefits nobody knows how to access, and the persistent myth that moms are “fine,” this episode sheds light on the data, the lived experiences, and the quiet crisis facing working mothers. The group discusses everything from middle motherhood to the “default parent” dilemma, sandwich caregiving, workplace policy reform, and why empathy alone isn’t enough—we need systems change, and we need it now.

In this conversation:

• Why burnout is often the catalyst for career shifts among moms
• The data behind declining support for mothers post-pandemic
• How workplace benefits are often underutilized or misunderstood
• What “default parent syndrome” looks like at home and at work
• The invisible mental load of caregiving—across generations
• Why culture change needs to be systemic, not dependent on “one good manager”
• How caregiving impacts mental health and long-term career trajectories
• Key takeaways from Leslie’s ongoing longitudinal study and Jess’s organizational research
• The urgent need for care-conscious leadership training
• Actionable ways employers can build real infrastructure around caregiving

Questions answered in this episode:

• Why are so many mothers still burned out—five years after the pandemic began?
• What is the actual ROI for companies who invest in supporting caregivers?
• What does “modern motherhood” really look like—and why do our systems ignore it?
• How do we stop relying on individual leaders and start building systemic change?
• What small, daily self-care steps can truly make a difference for overwhelmed moms?
• What’s the difference between feeling supported and being supported at work?
• Why do mothers leave traditional careers, and what does that mean for talent retention?
• What should workplace benefits look like across different caregiving phases?
• Why are we still afraid to talk about caregiving and burnout at work?
• What do sandwich caregivers need—and why are they often left out of the conversation?

Connect with Erin:

• Website: https://www.pgishparenting.com
• Instagram: @pgishparenting
• PG ish podcast

Connect with Jess:

• Website: elixircoaching.com
• Instagram: @jess.elixr.modernmotherhood
• LinkedIn: Jess Ringgenberg

Connect with Leslie:

• Website: momshierarchyofneeds.com
• Research Study Participation: Join here
• LinkedIn: Leslie Forde

Connect with Ashley:

Website:

In this honest conversation, Ashley is joined by Katie Schlott—a product innovation leader, writer, and mother—who opens up about her sudden entry into the world of caregiving when her mother became disabled just months before the pandemic. With young children at home and a demanding career, Katie found herself navigating a crash course in elder care, disability systems, Medicaid, power of attorney, and emotional survival.

Together, Ashley and Katie unpack the often-invisible labor of the “sandwich generation,” the logistical overwhelm that goes unnoticed, and how community, preparation, and reframing can make caregiving feel a little less lonely. If you’ve ever felt buried by caregiving or wondered how to prepare before crisis hits—this episode is for you.

What you’ll learn:

• What it means to be part of the “sandwich generation”
• How sudden caregiving reshapes your identity, time, and priorities
• The emotional toll and systemic failings of caregiving in the U.S.
• Why caregiving conversations are so hard—and so necessary
• How to organize care logistics with simple but powerful tools
• What “living in secret” as a caregiver looks like and why it’s harmful
• How to prepare your family now (even if it feels awkward)
• The importance of mental health support and redefining self-care

Questions Answered in This Episode:

• What does caregiving look like when it hits suddenly?
• Why is there such a silence around aging, caregiving, and death?
• How do you navigate systems like Medicaid and long-term care as a beginner?
• What’s the emotional impact of being a caregiver and a parent?
• How can we better support working caregivers—at home and at work?
• What tools and habits can ease the caregiving load day to day?

Connect with Katie Schlott:

• LinkedIn: Katie Schlott
• Fast Company Articles
• Fast Company, Your Sandwich Generation employees need help. Here's what to do
• Fast Company, Empathy isn't enough. Why includes design principles unlock what leaders need 

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this powerful episode of the AND/BOTH Podcast, Dr. Ashley Blackington welcomes Katie Kristofic, founder of The Carefullist and host of the Carefullist Podcast. Katie shares her deeply personal journey through caregiving after her mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease, ultimately inspiring her to build a resource hub and community for family caregivers. With more than 20 years of experience in strategic marketing and communications, Katie has leveraged her professional background and personal story to create a space that addresses the overlooked and under-discussed aspects of caregiving. From sandwich generation stress to financial planning pitfalls and the emotional toll of long-term care, this conversation offers both insight and hope for caregivers navigating similar paths.

In this conversation:

• How Katie's caregiving experience shaped the creation of The Carefullist
• Why long-term care planning is critical—and so often misunderstood
• The realities and emotional challenges of sandwich (and club sandwich) caregiving
• Insights on the Medicare five-year lookback and financial pitfalls to avoid
• How context and environment impact dementia progression
• The importance of humor, community, and resource-sharing for caregiver sustainability
• Why caregiving is often invisible labor—and how The Carefullist is working to change that

Questions answered in this episode:

• What sparked the creation of The Carefullist and the Carefullist Podcast?
• What is the sandwich generation—and how does Katie define “club sandwich” caregiving?
• What does long-term care planning really entail?
• Why are most families unprepared for the financial realities of aging and dementia?
• What are the unseen emotional costs of caregiving?
• How can caregivers carve out time for themselves in the midst of overwhelm?
• Why does Katie say the system is "designed for you to fail"?
• What are some practical, emotionally intelligent ways to approach driving and dementia?
• How can we reframe caregiving from a project management lens to a human connection?

Connect with Katie Kristofic:

• Website: www.carefullist.com
• Instagram: @carefullist
• YouTube: The Carefullist Podcast
• LinkedIn: Katie Kristofic

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, Ashley Blackington welcomes Leslie Forde, founder and CEO of Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs and upcoming author of Repair With Self-Care: Your Guide to the Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs. With humor, honesty, and deep research-backed insight, Leslie unpacks the complex emotional and logistical layers of caregiving, particularly motherhood, in a post-pandemic world. She discusses how societal expectations, personal habits, and systemic structures collide—and what we can do about it. From redefining self-care to advocating for policy change and workplace flexibility, this is a must-listen for anyone navigating care, career, and their own mental health.

In this conversation:

• The origin and evolution of Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs
• How Leslie’s research is changing the conversation around parental burnout
• Why self-care isn’t optional—and how to reclaim it
• The intersection of public policy, workplace culture, and maternal well-being
• What the pandemic revealed about caregiving and equity
• Actionable ways moms can “vote with their wallets” for change
• How organizations can retain working parents and caregivers
• The critical role of Employee Resource Groups (ERGs) in supporting caregiver wellbeing
• Why women’s mental and physical health are directly impacted by invisible labor
• The long and short game strategies for changing the systems that hold moms back

Questions answered in this episode:

• What is the Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs, and how did it begin?
• Why do moms struggle to care for themselves—and how can that change?
• How has the pandemic reshaped caregiving and work?
• What long-term solutions exist for systemic inequities in care and labor?
• Why is self-care a “ministry” for Leslie?
• How can moms find clarity on what actually matters in their day-to-day?
• What is the role of employers in creating family-friendly workplaces?
• What’s the danger of society “returning to normal” post-pandemic?
• How can mothers advocate for change through spending power?
• What’s in Leslie’s upcoming book, Repair With Self-Care?

Connect with Leslie Forde:

• Website: https://momshierarchyofneeds.com
• Book (Pre-order): Repair With Self-Care: Your Guide to the Mom’s Hierarchy of Needs (available wherever books are sold
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leslieforde/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/momshierarchy

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this week’s episode of The In Both Podcast, host Dr. Ashley welcomes journalist and twin mom Zara Hanawalt, whose bylines include Vogue, Cosmopolitan, Parents, The New York Times for Kids, and more. Zara’s work dives deep into the intersections of motherhood, culture, and women’s health—especially in a post-pandemic world where millions of moms were forced to reckon with impossible expectations and invisible labor.

In this candid, thoughtful, and at times hilarious conversation, Ashley and Zara explore what it was like parenting toddlers during lockdown, why remote work offered a glimpse of something more sustainable, and how the culture has since regressed—leaving moms to quietly pick up the pieces. From putting the grocery cart back with four kids in tow to viral trad-wife aesthetics, this conversation peels back the layers on the “have it all” myth and asks: why are moms the only ones being asked to bend?

Whether you’re a stay-at-home parent, working mom, freelance warrior, or somewhere in between, this episode is full of validation, insight, and a reminder that no one is doing it wrong—it’s just that the system wasn’t built to support any of us.

You'll learn:

• How the pandemic reshaped parenting roles—and revealed deep systemic flaws
• Why freelance work can be a survival tactic for moms, not just a “girl boss” dream
• The emotional and logistical toll of caregiving without support
• How return-to-office culture is erasing hard-won flexibility for families
• The difference between advocating for mothers and simply “complaining”
• Why stay-at-home parenting is labor, even if it’s unpaid
• The role of social media in promoting extreme (and unrealistic) portrayals of motherhood
• How gender bias shows up in everyday parenting expectations
• What needs to change culturally and politically to better support mothers
• That taking care of yourself doesn’t have to look a certain way—quiet moments count too

Connect with Zara:

Website: www.zaraalt.com

Instagram: @zaraalt

TikTok: @zaraalt

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode of The And Both Podcast, Dr. Ashley welcomes Dr. Noor Ali, a Bangladeshi-American medical doctor turned health insurance consultant, community builder, and beverage brand co-founder. Dr. Ali shares her remarkable journey from immigrating to the U.S. at age five to becoming a surgeon abroad—and later pivoting her career after facing insurmountable red tape while trying to transfer her medical credentials back to the U.S.

In this conversation:

• How to navigate major life and career pivots with resilience and intention
• The surprising health insurance options available to entrepreneurs (and why benefits shouldn't hold you back)
• Why motherhood and business ownership don’t have to be at odds—and how Dr. Ali structures her week to honor both
• What it means to be a multi-passionate entrepreneur and how to build sustainably across different business models
• How Dr. Ali defines boundaries, self-care, and visibility in her personal and professional life

Questions Answered:

• What happens when your medical degree isn't recognized in the U.S., and how do you pivot after that?
• How can women safely and confidently leave corporate jobs without losing access to quality health insurance?
• What does it look like to create highly curated, impact-driven in-person networking experiences for women?
• How do you stay focused and productive while running multiple businesses and raising small kids?
• Why is honoring white space in your calendar and building slow, sustainable businesses critical?

Connect with Noor:

Website: https://drnoorhealth.com/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/dr.noorhealth/

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode of The And Both Podcast, Ashley sits down with the incredible Sangheetha Parthasarathy—a Harvard and MIT alum, birth worker, and now nervous system coach. Sanha’s career journey took her from major consulting firms like Oracle and Accenture to co-founding a nonprofit focused on birth advocacy and eventually building her own body of work around somatic trauma healing and nervous system regulation.

Ashley and Sangheetha covered a lot in this conversation, including:

• What it feels like to live in limbo as an immigrant (she's immigrated twice and repatriated once)
• How immigration, perfectionism, attachment, and motherhood intersect
• How Sangheetha found healing and purpose through birth and postpartum experiences
• The connection between somatic work, nervous system regulation, and career pivots
• Why slowing down can feel really uncomfortable for high-achieving women—and what to do about it

Ashley and Sangheetha both shared their personal immigration stories and how that uncertainty shaped their nervous systems, their work, and their motherhood journeys.

In this conversation:

• A better understanding of how nervous system regulation really works
• How systemic experiences like immigration, workaholism, and motherhood trauma live in the body
• Why traditional “self-care” can fall flat—and what to do instead
• How to build safety in your body and life when the world feels unstable

Sangheetha is someone who brings heart, clarity, and wisdom to every conversation—and I know this one will leave you thinking deeply about how you care for your own nervous system, especially in chaotic times.

Connect with Sangheetha:

Website: https://www.sangparth.com/

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, Ashley is joined by Suzie Driscoll, a pediatric occupational therapist and founder of Tiny and Mighty Therapy, specializing in infant feeding. Together, they reflect on becoming first-time moms during the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic and how those experiences shaped their parenting, careers, and personal growth.

Suzie shares her journey from working at Seattle Children’s Hospital to launching her own private practice, motivated by the challenges she faced with feeding her newborn during lockdown. With deep empathy and clinical expertise, she now supports families through feeding difficulties and offers strategies rooted in prevention and early intervention.

In this conversation:

• The emotional and logistical realities of becoming a mom during the pandemic
• What pediatric feeding therapy looks like, especially for infants
• How Susie’s own feeding challenges as a new mom inspired her to help other families
• The importance of addressing feeding issues early—and how therapy before and after tongue-tie procedures can support better outcomes
• What it’s like to run a solo private practice while navigating motherhood, loss, and another pregnancy

Connect with Suzie:

Website: https://www.tinyandmightytherapy.com

Instgram: @tinyandmighty_ot

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, we're sitting down with Ellen Hockley—a seasoned entrepreneur, mom of two, and caregiver—to explore what it truly looks like to build and grow businesses while managing life’s most demanding roles. Ellen shares her journey from founding a sustainable event planning company in NYC, to launching a maternity activewear brand during the pandemic, and most recently, starting her consulting firm that supports postpartum and purpose-driven female founders.

The conversation also dives into Ellen’s unexpected role as a caregiver to her husband and the emotional toll, time demands, and isolation that can come with it. Ellen speaks candidly about postpartum depression, building businesses without social media, and the misconceptions moms face when stepping into entrepreneurship.

In this conversation:

• The real challenges and triumphs of starting and sustaining multiple businesses while raising young children
• Why paid parental leave and postpartum support matter deeply in the U.S.
• How Ellen helps early-stage female founders build realistic, sustainable businesses with strategic guidance
• The power of honest entrepreneurship—and why the “six-figure in six months” promise isn’t what it seems
• Insights into caregiving as a young spouse and the impact it has on identity, relationships, and business
• That you can build a successful business without social media

Connect with Ellen:

Website: www.ellenhockley.com

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode of The And Both Podcast, Laura Bull, founder of The Brand Management Company and author of From Individual to Empire, joins us for an insightful conversation on personal branding, motherhood, and how identity evolves over time. Laura shares her journey from becoming one of the youngest executives at Sony Music—working with stars like Carrie Underwood and Brad Paisley—to launching her own brand agency while raising two daughters. She breaks down the difference between marketing and branding, how to craft a lasting narrative, and why personal evolution doesn’t mean abandoning who you are.

In this conversation:

• The difference between branding and marketing—and why it matters for your business
• How to identify your personal brand pillars that stay true across all life seasons
• Why many entrepreneurs fail with marketing due to unclear branding
• How motherhood and big life transitions impact identity and brand narrative
• How Laura helps clients build sustainable, authentic brands with her signature brand matrix
• Why even powerhouse figures like Martha Stewart and Adele stick to core branding (and what you can learn from them!)
• Practical branding advice and tools

Connect with Laura:

Instagram: @thelaurabull and @thebrandmgmtco

Website: https://thebrandmgmt.com

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

This roundtable sits in the tender middle where grief and everyday life meet. Abby shares losing her sister—her person—and how that reshaped motherhood, work, and identity. Katie reflects on losing her dad unexpectedly and the decade-long evolution of grief that led to her new book, Grief Cookies and Other Comforting Things. Together we talk language (what helps, what harms), parenting through loss, making meaning without forcing timelines, and building rituals that let our people stay present in our lives.

In this episode:

• When the world keeps spinning: That frozen-in-time feeling after loss—and how to function when the calendar won’t wait.
• Permission to feel both: Joy and sorrow coexisting; why “time heals” isn’t the whole story.
• Words that help (and don’t): Moving beyond “there are no words”; simple phrases that land with care.
• Parenting & grief: Telling the truth at kid-level; navigating family trees, school projects, and curious classmates.
• Rituals that root us: Ofrendas, Día de los Muertos, photo traditions, quilts from loved ones’ clothes, and everyday anchors (toast with cream cheese & jelly).
• Coping vs. numbing: Movement, nature, journaling/blogging, creative outlets—and how compartmentalizing can be a short-term tool, not a forever plan.
• Community & support: Why we shouldn’t do grief alone; finding your “me too” people.
• Identity shifts: Career pivots, creative work, and the exfoliation of “shoulds” after loss.

Practical Practices You Can Try

• Say something simple: “This sucks. I’m here with you.” / “I don’t know what to say, but I’m not going anywhere.”
• Micro-comforts: Warm drink, a short walk, fresh air on your face, a favorite song—tiny signals of safety to your nervous system.
• Ritualize remembrance: A photo on the mantle, a yearly ofrenda, a recipe they loved, a shared song—light, repeatable touchpoints.
• Kid-level honesty: Offer age-appropriate truth, answer questions directly, and let the story grow with them.
• Name the cycle: “This wave will pass. Another may come. We can ride them together.”

Key Takeaways

• Grief doesn’t vanish; it changes shape. Some years are softer, some spike. Both are normal.
• Language matters. Avoid timelines and silver linings; choose presence over fixes.
• Compartmentalizing can help you move through the day—return to the feelings when you have capacity.
• Traditions keep people with us. Rituals don’t need to be fancy to be meaningful.
• You don’t have to do this alone. Support—professional, peer, spiritual, creative—lightens the lift.
• Loss can catalyze aligned living—a clearer yes, a braver no, a gentler pace.

About Our Guests

• Abby Waychoff — Mom, OT by training, and current mental health counseling grad student. After losing her sister, Abby’s work and life pivoted toward grief, meaning-making, and aligned living.
• Katie Huey — Coach, writer, and facilitator focusing on language for hard things. Author of Grief Cookies and Other Comforting Things: Finding Beauty in Life After Loss (Pub day: today in the episode timeline). Creates spaces to hold both sorrow and joy.

Resources Mentioned

• Grief Cookies and Other Comforting Things — Katie Huey
• Día de los...

In this episode, we chat with Jillian McCloskey, founder of Momcations.co, a travel company specializing in vacations just for moms. Jillian shares how her first solo trip to Iceland transformed her as a mother and inspired her to create a business that helps other moms take guilt-free, stress-free getaways—whether it's a solo trip, a retreat with other moms, or a quick weekend escape.

In this conversation:

• Why every mom needs a real break—and why family vacations don’t count!
• How to make time for travel, even when your schedule is packed.
• Budget-friendly & short-term trip ideas for moms who can’t take a long vacation.
• Why stepping away actually makes you a better, more present parent.
• Practical tips for planning your first momcation, even if you’ve never traveled alone before.

Connect with Jillian:

https://www.momcations.co/

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode Ashley sits down with Erika Hanafin, the former CEO of Hey Mama, a massive networking community for entrepreneurial moms. Erika shares her insights on balancing business growth with motherhood, the unique strengths moms bring to entrepreneurship, and how to build confidence in both roles. With five successful acquisitions under her belt, she discusses her journey, the power of community, and how women can embrace ambition without guilt. Whether you're navigating startup life or looking for ways to reclaim your time, this episode is packed with practical strategies and inspiration for mom entrepreneurs.

In this conversation:

• How to balance motherhood and entrepreneurship without sacrificing personal well-being
• Why moms have unique leadership skills that make them powerful entrepreneurs
• How to shift your mindset to embrace confidence in business and leadership
• The importance of community in business growth and personal support
• How to set boundaries and prioritize personal needs without guilt
• Practical time management and productivity hacks to reclaim hours each week
• How to integrate ambition with family life in a sustainable way
• The role of mindset shifts in overcoming self-doubt and embracing opportunities
• Strategies for networking and building meaningful business relationships
• How to navigate different seasons of business and life with flexibility and resilience

Connect with Erika:

Website: erikahanafin.com

Instagram: @erikahanafin

Get Erika's free guide: 5 Steps to Scale Your Business

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

This episode features a conversation with Heather Chauvin, a leadership coach who helps successful women live, work, and parent on their own terms—with courage and authenticity. Heather’s journey took a dramatic turn in 2013 when a stage 4 cancer diagnosis forced her to reevaluate everything she had been taught about motherhood, success, and sacrifice. Since then, she has been on a mission to challenge cultural expectations that lead to burnout and self-sacrifice, helping women redefine what it means to truly thrive.

Heather shares insights on breaking free from societal “shoulds,” prioritizing your own well-being without guilt, and leading from a place of alignment—all while being an engaged parent and successful entrepreneur. Her approach is real, refreshing, and unapologetic. If you’ve ever felt like you’re checking all the right boxes but still feeling drained, this conversation will inspire you to take your power back.

In this conversation:

• Why self-sacrifice isn’t a requirement for good motherhood
• How to listen to your intuition and trust yourself
• The dangers of ignoring your body’s whispers before they turn into screams
• Why prioritizing your own fulfillment is the key to thriving
• How to break free from cultural expectations and create a life that truly aligns with you

Connect with Heather:

• Book: Dying to Be a Good Mother
• Instagram: @heatherchauvin

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode with Natasha Golinsky, a business coach dedicated to helping solopreneur moms build teams, reclaim their time, and work fewer hours while maintaining a full-time income. As a mother of three and an entrepreneur, Natasha understands the overwhelming challenge of balancing business, family, and personal time without burnout.

We dive deep into the myths of motherhood and business, why so many moms feel pressured to "do it all," and how hiring the right support can transform your life. Natasha also shares her unfiltered take on motherhood, admitting that she didn’t love the early years and why it's important to normalize these feelings. If you're looking for a no-nonsense approach to business and motherhood, this episode is for you.

In this conversation:

• Why working less doesn’t mean making less
• How to delegate tasks at home and in business without guilt
• The importance of team-building for solopreneur moms
• How to step away from societal “shoulds” and define success on your own terms
• Why not loving certain parts of motherhood is normal and okay

Connect with Natasha:

• LinkedIn: Natasha Golinsky

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I sit down with Marnie Madras, the founder and CEO of Rumbly, a modern motherhood brand redefining the pregnancy experience. Marnie shares her journey from a corporate and startup career to becoming a postpartum doula and entrepreneur, all while balancing life as a mom of four. We talk about the challenges of pregnancy, the societal expectations placed on moms, and how Rumbly is helping women prioritize themselves during this transformative time.

In this conversation:

• How Marnie transitioned from corporate life to launching Rumbly and becoming a doula
• The realities of pregnancy and early motherhood, including the loss of identity many women experience
• Why self-care and individuality are essential during pregnancy and postpartum
• The role of community and support in making motherhood a more positive experience
• How Rumbly’s subscription and gift boxes are designed to celebrate moms, not just babies

Connect with Marnie:

• Website: rumbly.co
• Instagram: @rumbly_co
• Email: marnie@rumbly.co

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I chat with Mari Parker, a mom, entrepreneur, and the President & COO of Bouldr. We dive into the experience of pregnancy and motherhood at different life stages, the lessons learned from raising multiple children, and the balance between identity, career, and caregiving. Mari shares her insights on parenting with perspective, navigating change, and the importance of prioritizing yourself while raising a family.

In this conversation:

• How pregnancy feels different with each child and the shift in perspective over time
• The importance of self-care and making yourself a priority as a parent
• Navigating career and motherhood, especially when you’re in a leadership role
• How parenting is a personal development journey that constantly evolves
• The value of exposure to different cultures and perspectives in shaping our understanding of the world

Connect with Mari:

Website: www.boldrimpact.com

Linkedin

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, we talk with Allison Prieur, a mom of three and a nonprofit professional with over 20 years of experience in the sector. We dive into the gender and racial disparities in nonprofit work, how passion-driven labor is often undervalued, and the financial instability that so many nonprofit workers face. Allison shares how becoming a mom changed her perspective on the sector and led her to entrepreneurship, and we explore what needs to change for nonprofit workers to be fairly compensated for their impact.

What we discuss:

• The hidden gender and racial disparities in nonprofit work and how they impact financial stability
• Why passion-driven labor is often exploited and what that means for nonprofit workers and their families
• The challenges of balancing entrepreneurship, parenting, and higher education as a mom of three
• The reality of nonprofit funding cycles, last-minute budget approvals, and workforce burnout
• Why it’s so important for nonprofit organizations to advocate for fair wages and systemic change
• The intersection of motherhood, nonprofit work, and entrepreneurship and why women are expected to “do more with less”
• How we can create real change in the nonprofit sector through advocacy and collaboration
• The power of evaluation and learning in nonprofits to drive long-term impact

Connect with Allison:

Website: www.dareic.com/store

Linkedin: http://linkedin.com/in/allisonprieur

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode Ashley and Katie Huey explore the intersection of grief, leadership, and parenting. Katie shares her personal journey through grief after losing her father and how it has shaped her work in leadership development. They discuss the complexities of navigating grief in both personal and professional settings, especially in the wake of the pandemic. The conversation delves into the importance of empathy, compassion, and self-care, particularly for mothers balancing ambition and emotional labor. Throughout the discussion, they emphasize the need for open conversations about grief and the human experience. We explore the complexities of motherhood, work-life balance, and the emotional landscape of being a woman today. They discuss the challenges of navigating personal and professional responsibilities, the importance of community and compassion, and the beauty found in both joy and sadness. The dialogue emphasizes the need for self-acceptance, the power of 'and both' in life choices, and the significance of ordinary moments in a world that often pressures women to excel in every aspect of life. They also touch on future aspirations, personal growth, and the importance of finding joy in the journey.

Connect with Katie:

Instagram: @52beautifulthings

Website: katiehuey.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-huey-acc-b10969aa/

Email: katie@katiehuey.com

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, we chat with Jessica Murray, founder of Empower, shares her journey from corporate success to building a business that aligns with her values as a mother and entrepreneur. Jessica reflects on the identity shift motherhood brings and how it impacts career choices, offering actionable insights for moms navigating similar transitions.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

• The emotional and professional challenges of transitioning from corporate life to entrepreneurship as a mother.
• How to navigate the identity shift that comes with motherhood and embrace new career paths.
• Practical strategies for balancing work and motherhood without losing sight of personal fulfillment.
• The importance of building structure and boundaries as an entrepreneur to manage time effectively.
• Why it’s essential to align your career with your personal values and goals as a parent.
• Insights into how to ask for help, build support systems, and find your community as a working mom.
• The reality of overcoming societal expectations about what success looks like after becoming a parent.
• How to empower yourself to pursue a meaningful career while raising a family.

Connect with Jessica:

IG: @hiempower.co

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jmurray2

Website: hiempower.co

Newsletter: newsletter.hiempower.co/subscribe

Connect with Ashley:

Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.com

Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822

Instagram: @andboth_podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/