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Explore every episode of the podcast ABA Journal Podcasts - Legal Talk Network

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TitlePub. DateDuration
Legal thriller author David Ellis's day job? Appellate court justice29 Aug 202400:47:18
Justice David W. Ellis has served on the Illinois Appellate Court for the 1st District for nearly 10 years. But readers may know him better as author David Ellis, writer of more than a dozen legal thrillers. Ellis had enjoyed creative writing as a youth, he tells the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles in this episode of The Modern Law Library. But during his college and law school years, he was focused solely on his legal career path. It wasn’t until he had been in practice for a few years that this changed. During a vacation at the beach, he suddenly decided that he was going to write a novel—and once that goal was set, he worked relentlessly towards it. And in 2002, he won a prestigious Edgar Award from the Mystery Writers of America for that first novel, Line of Vision.  Both branches of Ellis’s career have seen tremendous returns. He made national news in 2009 as the prosecutor of the impeachment of Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich before the state senate. He was the youngest-serving justice in 2014 when he joined the Illinois Appellate Court for the 1st District, which serves Chicago and Cook County. And along the way, he published 11 novels, including the four-book Jason Kolarich series. He was a finalist for the ABA Journal-sponsored Harper Lee Prize for Legal Fiction in 2012 and 2013. He has also co-written nine books with James Patterson, the latest of which (Lies He Told Me) will be released in September. In this episode, Ellis and Rawles discuss his July release, The Best Lies. The germ of an idea that became The Best Lies started off with the notion of a main character who was a diagnosed pathological liar. When the book opens, Leo Balanoff, a criminal defense attorney in Chicago, has just been arrested for murder. Police have collected DNA and fingerprints at the scene that are a match for a college-era bar fight Leo was charged for, and the victim had an ugly history with one of Leo’s clients. Over the course of The Best Lies, twists and turns across multiple timelines and through multiple points of view begin to reveal what really happened. Ellis weaves a tale combining corporate espionage, violin concertos, police corruption and the Estonian mob.  Ellis also discusses his writing process, his 3:30 a.m. wake-up time, the similarities in his creative and legal writing, and how his judicial ethics concerns sometimes impact his editorial decisions.
Tests into and out of law schools—what's changing and why14 Aug 202400:36:25
The LSAT is facing competition from the JD-Next exam, and many states are reconsidering their licensing methods as the bar exam as we’ve known it sunsets in 2028. Kellye Testy, the executive director and CEO of the Association of American Law Schools, talks with the ABA Journal’s Julianne Hill about why those changes are happening now and what it means for law schools and students.
When states’ rights and healthcare access clash15 May 202400:49:51
From COVID-19 response to the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the results of 50 states having individual approaches to public health, medical outcomes and healthcare access raise troubling questions. A husband-and-wife team of University of Utah professors dig into the ethics of the American healthcare system in States of Health: The Ethics and Consequences of Policy Variation in a Federal System. Leslie P. Francis is a professor of law and philosophy with a background in bioethics, and John G. Francis is a professor of political science with a focus on European comparative politics, federalism and comparative regulatory policy. The spouses had partnered on three previous books together. When looking for their next project, they decided to examine the consequences of states opting out of Medicaid expansion and what power federalism could have in protecting American citizens’ health. But soon more news events and landmark cases expanded their focus. The result is States of Health. The book examines the tensions between state and federal powers in a number of areas, including reproductive rights; gender-affirming care; medical marijuana; public health and pandemics; right-to-try laws; patient confidentiality; and care quality and life expectancies. In this episode of The Modern Law Library, the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles speaks with the Francises about their collaborative writing process, and what conclusions they have drawn about the benefits of federalism and states’ rights. The Francises argue that since it is the federal government that determines citizenship and census decisions, state differences go too far when they make “basic decisions about who counts at all, and what it means to count.” They add, “Movement is a critical aspect of who counts: the ability to come and go, or to leave one state more permanently for another.” The Francises argue that freedom of movement for the purpose of medical treatment is crucial for patients, but also point out when states control licensure for medical providers, that too can restrict freedom of movement. The value of 50 individual laboratories of democracy can be appealing to a scientific mind. But at what point can it be argued in the healthcare space that a federal government needs to step in, if the outcomes in some of those laboratories are decreased lifespans and higher mortality?
How–and why–Kazakhstan gave up its Soviet-era nuclear weapons20 Apr 202200:48:15
During its time as a Soviet republic within the USSR, Kazakhstan was the site of massive nuclear tests, both above and below ground. The cost to the environment and health of the Kazakh people and livestock was likewise massive, though the full scale of the effects was under-studied and suppressed for decades. Through massive public protests in the 1980s, nuclear-weapons testing in the Semipalatinsk region of Kazakhstan was brought to a halt. But when the Soviet Union dissolved and Kazakhstan became a sovereign state, it now had a conundrum: Should the country—which had no military of its own—retain the nuclear weapons and become the world’s fourth largest nuclear power, or relinquish them in return for international commitments? This is the story that Togzhan Kassenova was born to write. The nuclear policy and nonproliferation expert grew up in the capital city, Almaty, in a family with deep ties to the Semipalatinsk region. Her father, Oumirserik Kassenov, was the head of the country’s first think tank, now known as the Kazakhstan Institute for Strategic Studies, and he was charged with helping the fledgling Kazakh government make nuclear policy decisions in the 1990s. Kassenova—who now lives in a different capital city, Washington, D.C.—was also able to access and interpret archival documents from the United States, Kazakhstan and Russia. The result is Atomic Steppe: How Kazakhstan Gave Up the Bomb. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Kassenova and the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles discuss the challenges of writing about top-secret nuclear test programs; the brave Soviet-era medical professionals who sought to record the sicknesses and birth defects caused by nuclear radiation; and the connections between the communities in Kazakhstan and the United States impacted by nuclear testing. She also sheds light on the real international diplomacy that took place that led to Kazakhstan giving up its nuclear arsenal, which was not a foregone conclusion. Atomic Steppe was released only nine days before Russia invaded Ukraine. Kassenova also discusses the parallels between Ukrainian and Kazakh experiences, the Russian attitudes towards the former Soviet republics, and what the international community can do about the threat nuclear weapons still pose today.   Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists.
TurnSignl app seeks to provide real-time legal assistance and de-escalation of tension during traffic stops13 Apr 202200:19:15
Like many Americans, Jazz Hampton and two of his friends, Andre Creighton and Mychal Frelix, watched in horror as two fellow Minnesotans, Philando Castile and George Floyd, were killed by police officers following what seemed to be routine traffic stops. If only there had been a way to de-escalate those situations while protecting the rights of the person detained, as well as the law enforcement officer involved. So they came up with one. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
Ex-Tesla attorney leveraged her contract expertise into a book and thriving LinkedIn community06 Apr 202200:34:18
In August 2020, contract attorney Laura Frederick accepted a challenge: Post to LinkedIn once a day, every day, for a month. Frederick thought she might be able to keep up a string of several days in a row. Instead, her daily posts became a way to connect with colleagues, build business, create a brand identity, and have a social lifeline during the isolation of the pandemic. A selection of those posts also found their way into her self-published book, Practical Tips on How to Contract: Techniques and Tactics from an Ex-BigLaw and Ex-Tesla Commercial Contracts Lawyer. Frederick says that she's never been the sort of person who enjoyed the cocktail party circuit way of rainmaking. When she launched her own law practice after years of working in BigLaw and as an in-house attorney for companies including Tesla, she relied for the first year entirely on referrals. But the connections she was able to make through LinkedIn has rapidly expanded opportunities for her legal practice and for her training and skill-development company, How to Contract. Frederick tells the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles that one of her driving motivations for posting daily tips to LinkedIn has been her desire to pass along knowledge gained over the course of her career to younger attorneys. When she was a beginning attorney in the 1990s, she says she gained tremendously by being able to shadow more experienced attorneys at her firm, learning at the side of longtime contract attorneys. The same opportunities are not available now, particularly when so many young attorneys are launching their own solo or small firm practices.  She hopes that both Practical Tips on How to Contract and her continuing daily posts to LinkedIn–she's now written more than 400–can help fill that gap. She adds that engaging with her commenters has also taught her lessons that improved her own legal work.  In this episode, Frederick talks about the practical steps to building a brand and self-publishing; how she expanded into creating legal cartoons; and what it was like to be an attorney for Tesla.   Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists.
'No Equal Justice' shares George Crockett Jr.'s civil rights legacy30 Mar 202200:48:35
Detroit has been the site of many civil rights and labor rights battles, and many notable Black attorneys have called the city home. The first Black president of the ABA, Dennis Archer, came from the Detroit legal community, as does the current ABA president, Reginald Turner. But the full story of one of the city's pioneering legal figures has not been told–until now.  In No Equal Justice: The Legacy of Civil Rights Icon George W. Crockett Jr., co-authors Edward J. Littlejohn and Peter J. Hammer have filled in this blank with an absorbing history of Crockett's Floridian childhood, his law school years at the University of Michigan, his defense of Communist activists at the height of the Red Scare, his harrowing search for the murdered Freedom Riders in 1964, his time as a judge on Detroit's Recorder Court, and his election to the U.S. House of Representatives.  For this episode of the Modern Law Library, Hammer joined the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles to discuss the research that went into the book, some of Crockett's most high-profile cases, how Crockett ended up serving four months in prison for contempt of court, and to explain why Crockett was one of the Detroit police department's most-hated public figures.   Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists.  
Want to be a successful litigator? Come to the office, say 2 BigLaw trial lawyers28 Mar 202200:47:12
For young litigators who want to be considered “a lawyer’s lawyer,” careers spent mostly working from home may not get you to where you want to be, according to Robert Giuffra and Evan Chesler, two Wall Street partners who have been trying cases for more than 30 years. Special thanks to our sponsor, LawPay.
With alternative dispute rising in popularity, this platform aims to help mediators and arbitrators23 Mar 202200:32:12
As a young personal injury litigator in Georgia, Gino Brogdon Jr. says he was accustomed to using different technology tools to manage his practice. But when Brogdon began working as a mediator, he realized that there were limited tech options to assist him in the alternative dispute resolution realm. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
The justice system is the antagonist in retired judge's legal thriller novel16 Mar 202200:29:19
Retired judge and bestselling novelist Martin Clark had to deal with his fair share of rejection before he finally broke in more than two decades ago with his debut novel, The Many Aspects of Mobile Home Living. After several false starts, that book got Clark’s career up and running. In this episode, the ABA Journal's Matt Reynolds finds out what made the difference for Clark, and gets tips for other lawyers itching to write their first book. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists.
Tough decision to make? Here’s how to break it down like a lawyer23 Feb 202200:35:24
Law professor Kim Wehle is used to helping her students begin to think like lawyers. But the methodology behind making tough decisions as a legal professional can also benefit the general public. It’s why How To Think Like A Lawyer—and Why: A Common-Sense Guide to Everyday Dilemmas was a natural follow-up to her two previous books, How to Read the Constitution—and Why and What You Need to Know About Voting—and Why.   Wehle’s previous books attempted to fill in civics education gaps for the general public. With her newest book, Wehle is hoping to give the general public alternatives to kneejerk or strictly partisan decision-making by encouraging a more methodical approach. In How to Think Like a Lawyer—and Why, Wehle shares what she calls the B-I-C-A-T Method. The five steps to the B-I-C-A-T Method are:   1. Break the problem down. 2. Identify your values and your aim. 3. Collect lots of information. 4. Argue both sides of each point. 5. Tolerate the fact that people may disagree with your choice and that you might feel conflicted about your decision.   In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Wehle and the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles discuss how she chose the five different spheres of life highlighted in her book as areas where a lawyerly mind could be particularly useful: work, family life decisions, civic life, health care and when it’s time to hire an actual lawyer. They also take the B-I-C-A-T Method for a spin in a hypothetical situation that’s a real-life dilemma for many parents around the world: How to approach masking in school.   Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists.
How a social justice innovation lab is developing new types of legal services16 Feb 202200:29:38
The Innovation for Justice lab launched at the University of Arizona’s James E. Rogers College of Law in 2018 with the goal of designing, building and testing new solutions to addressing the justice gap impacting millions of Americans. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
'In the Shadow of Liberty' shines light on American immigration history01 May 202400:53:40
When the Trump administration's policy of separating families at the country's borders was announced, opposition from the public and the legal community was swift. The outcry and judicial decisions led to a reversal of the administration's stated policy. But detention and family separation have a long history in this country, history professor Ana Raquel Minian says. Minian, who immigrated from Mexico to the United States right before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, has made an academic career studying immigration, incarceration and detention. As a young adult, Minian followed the news of Guantanamo Bay Naval Base being used to detain people who might be connected to those attacks. But in researching their new book, In the Shadow of Liberty: The Invisible History of Immigrant Detention in the United States, Minian discovered the base was first used as a detention center under President George H.W. Bush to hold Haitian refugees. Minian uses the personal experiences of four immigrants to walk readers through the history of immigrant detention in the United States: Fu Chi Hao, a Chinese Christian attempting to escape the Boxer Rebellion in 1901; Holocaust survivor Ellen Knauff, a war bride of an American GI who arrived at Ellis Island in 1948; Gerardo Mansur, a Cuban who joined the Mariel boat lift in 1979; and Fernando Arredondo, a Guatamalan asylum seeker who was separated from his daughter by border officials in 2018.  In this episode of The Modern Law Library, Minian shares details of these stories with the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles. They also discuss the shifting motivations behind changes in the immigration system, parole versus detention, and how attorneys can help immigrants currently in detention.
Regulate cryptocurrencies and fintech products before it's too late, urges author09 Feb 202200:40:46
Hilary J. Allen isn't sorry if you find her new book scary. In fact, she's hoping that Driverless Finance: Fintech's Impact on Financial Stability can spook enough people to create momentum for change. Allen was involved in the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission that was formed by Congress to study the causes behind the 2008 financial crisis. Now she sees the possibility of financial collapse on an even greater scale with AI technology being used in the financial industry; "smart contracts" that could bring down banks before human intervention is possible; cryptocurrency and non-fungible token sales being made for the purpose of speculation; and tech giants like Apple, Facebook, Amazon and Google contemplating offering financial services. In the future, she warns, banks might not be the only entities that become "too big to fail."  While the public is concerned about the safety of driverless cars, there's much less awareness about driverless finance, and the dangers it could pose to the global financial system are real, says Allen.  In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Allen speaks with the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles about the promise and downsides of some "cutting-edge" financial products, and why innovation is not inherently good. She suggests some avenues for regulation and oversight, urges that regulators be given the technology and access to expertise they need to keep up with new financial products and markets, and explains what an NFT is–and what it isn't.   Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists.
Control is often an issue in breakups, and COVID-19 made it worse, say 2 family law attorneys31 Jan 202200:39:24
Business hasn’t slowed down during the COVID-19 pandemic, which tore many couples apart, according to family law attorneys Stacy D. Phillips, who practices in Los Angeles, and Bonnie E. Rabin, who practices in New York. However, the COVID-19 crisis has made it easier to work together. Special thanks to our sponsor, LawPay.
Need to sharpen your legal writing? 10th Circuit Court judge shares his tips26 Jan 202200:30:06
There's plenty of conventional wisdom about what makes a good legal brief or court opinion. Judge Robert E. Bacharach of the Denver-based 10th Circuit Court of Appeals says that when judges socialize, their conversations often devolve into discussions about language and pieces of writing they enjoy or revile. But Bacharach decided he wanted to dive deeper, to see what the science of psycholinguistics could teach lawyers and judges about how written words persuade an audience. The result was his new book, Legal Writing: A Judge's Perspective on the Science and Rhetoric of the Written Word, published by the ABA. Legal Writing is a slim volume, but it's packed with tips. It considers details as microscopic as a serif on a letter and as macroscopic as how to create an outline for an argument. In this episode of the Modern Law Library podcast, Bacharach chats about his own writing process; shares his top takeaways from the psycholinguists he consulted; and offers his advice for young litigators looking to hone their skills.  
How this contracts platform uses AI to help users manage and analyze key documents19 Jan 202200:32:47
Evisort co-founder Jake Sussman says when the company began developing its contract management and analysis platform, its goal was to use artificial intelligence as a last resort. But it soon became clear that AI was the only way to solve the contract challenges that Evisort wanted to help users tackle. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
Outcomes in state supreme courts aren't as simple as Blue vs. Red12 Jan 202200:44:54
Most of the spotlights are on the U.S. Supreme Court when it comes to legal cases that impact civil rights. But state supreme courts are the final arbiters of what each state's own constitution dictates. They can have enormous influence on Americans' civil rights and daily lives—and there isn't nearly as much scholarship available on them, particularly when it comes to civil rather than criminal cases. Political scientists James L. Gibson and Michael J. Nelson hope to change this with their new book, Judging Inequality: State Supreme Courts and the Inequality Crisis. When Gibson and Nelson set themselves the task of analyzing civil cases and the court makeups of all 50 state supreme courts, they realized without additional manpower it would be a daunting one, they tell Lee Rawles in this episode of the Modern Law Library podcast. With the help of students, they created a database to track the outcomes of seven kinds of civil cases that would come before each court, and looked to see which courts tended to support the "haves" against the "have nots." They also analyzed the backgrounds of each justice, to the best of their ability. One of their most important findings? It's not as facile as a red state/blue state divide. In this episode, Gibson and Nelson discuss the work that went into their study, the results they found most surprising, and what they as political scientists think that the legal profession should be discussing when it comes to the highest courts in each state.
Law School, Lawyering, and How One Relates to the Other27 Dec 202100:34:56
Podcast host Meg Steenburgh welcomes recent grad Shannon Knapp and fellow law students Sarah Roberts and Tiffany Love to get their perspectives on law school, legal practice, and life! They each discuss their unique student and real-world experiences—sharing the paths they’ve chosen to pursue, tips for self-care and motivation, and what has helped them handle the rigors of law school and entrance into the profession. Shannon Knapp is a recent graduate of Syracuse University School of Law and an Associate Attorney at Bond, Schoeneck & King PLLC in central New York.  Sarah Roberts is an entrepreneur based in eastern Texas and a 2L at Syracuse University School of Law. Tiffany Love is an Air Force spouse, civilian paralegal, and 3L at Syracuse University School of Law. Thank you to our sponsor NBI.
Do federal jurors still care whether a witness is caught in a lie? Not as much, say 2 veteran litigators27 Dec 202100:45:02
Physical aspects aren’t the only changes in federal litigation, according to two veteran Chicago litigators. They think jurors, particularly those younger than age 40, are much more forgiving when a witness is caught lying, few care whether a party admits to drug use, and many expect significant documentation from law enforcement trying to defend misconduct charges. Special thanks to our sponsor, LawPay.
In 'All Her Little Secrets,' the death of an attorney's boss could bring her secrets to light22 Dec 202100:38:50
In her debut novel, All Her Little Secrets, attorney Wanda M. Morris has written a legal thriller full of corporate intrigue and small-town secrets. Morris takes readers inside Atlanta boardrooms and back into the past of her heroine, Ellice Littlejohn.  What would possess someone to react to the sight of her boss (and longtime married lover) shot to death in his office by closing the door and walking away without alerting anyone? The trauma behind Littlejohn's actions becomes clearer as readers discover more about her background, and they may have a hard time putting down the novel as Littlejohn tries to discover the real reason behind her subsequent promotion at work. Is she a pawn, a token or a fall guy? Can she protect the people she loves and make sure her long-buried secrets don't rise from the grave? In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Morris discusses her 13-year journey towards publication, tips she has for fellow lawyers who want to write books, and the motivations behind her characters' actions with the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles. While this interview remains spoiler-free, Morris reveals the backstories behind some of the characters in her book, and shares her thoughts on the real-life racism that is reflected in Littlejohn's experiences as the only Black woman attorney in an executive suite.  
Our favorite pop culture picks in 202108 Dec 202100:30:21
In our annual year-in-review episode, Lee Rawles speaks to her ABA Journal colleagues Blair Chavis, Matt Reynolds and Amanda Robert to find out how they spent their free time in 2021. Like many people, we've found it more difficult during the pandemic to read for pleasure, so this year we're also sharing what TV shows, movies and podcasts we would recommend, in addition to our favorite books and audiobooks. We also share what we're adding to our to-read and to-watch lists in 2022. Have your own favorites? Email them to us at books@abajournal.com, and you may hear them featured in a future episode.
3 decades ago, legal headhunting required more time for fewer placements29 Nov 202100:48:34
The heavy, hardback editions of Martindale-Hubbell law directories, which were published annually and had different volumes for each jurisdiction, represented an important tool for executive search consultants back in the 1980s, before internet access was common, and lawyers’ backgrounds could only be found through paper or word of mouth. Special thanks to our sponsor, LawPay.
The future of DEI programs in the legal industry17 Apr 202400:35:06
The lack of diversity when it comes to race, gender, sexuality, disability and social class within the legal profession is nothing new. However, the last decade has marked a gradual increase in diversity across all fields.
America's fights over medical treatment choices didn't start with COVID-19 and Ivermectin24 Nov 202100:50:21
Like the legal profession, the practice of medicine in the United States is highly regulated. But it hasn't always been, and the idea that a person has the right to try the medical therapies of their choice has a much longer history. In Choose Your Medicine: Freedom of Therapeutic Choice in America, law professor Lewis A. Grossman introduces readers to a fractious history with some unexpected combatants–and comrades. From his research, Grossman discovered that skepticism towards medical authorities has been the historical attitude Americans have held through the majority of the country's history. Instead, the deviation was the confidence and trust in science that held sway in the 1930s through the 1960s. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Grossman discusses these historical attitudes with the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles, and what these attitudes could mean for the country's public health. Grossman points out that views on medical choice don't map directly onto political views. During the AIDS crisis in the 1980s and 1990s, liberal gay activists teamed up with anti-regulation conservatives to demand the FDA change its policies and let HIV-positive people try drug treatments that hadn't yet completed the approval process. During the COVID-19 pandemic it appears conservatives are more likely to demand unproven drugs and treatments like hydroxychloroquine (touted by former President Trump) and the anti-parasitic drug Ivermectin, but there are numerous instances of vaccine hesitancy on either side of the political spectrum. Choose Your Medicine takes readers back to the time of "heroic medicine," where doctors advocated for extreme (and sometimes deadly) treatments like purgatives and bloodletting in the hope that some progress would be made towards cures. The book looks at pre-Civil War efforts to regulate the practice of medicine, and shows how they failed. It illuminates once-popular movements like Thomsonianism, practiced by followers of a 19th century herbalist named Samuel Thomson. One chapter of the book deals with the changes brought by the 1970s health movements. A cautionary tale from that time is Laetrile–a "medicine" made from apricot pits–which was touted as a wonder drug that could fight cancer. In practice, Laetrile did no such thing. But not all lobbying for alternative treatments has been a failure: Supporters of medical cannabis have been able to completely shift laws and attitudes towards marijuana over a relatively short amount of time. Other alternative treatments like acupuncture and chiropractic practices have become mainstream and successful. In this episode, Grossman–who started writing the book long before the COVID-19 pandemic began–discusses what it's been like to see a new field of battle develop over medical choice. He talks about the constitutional theories advocates have used to push for therapeutic choice. He also shares a story he tells his students at the beginning of every semester: the story of a college student named Abigail Burroughs, who was dying from cancer and seeking an experimental drug.
How a law prof is training paraprofessionals to represent immigrants in legal proceedings17 Nov 202100:30:30
Law prof Michele Pistone says there aren’t enough immigration lawyers and pro bono attorneys to meet the demand of immigrants seeking legal assistance. This justice gap is a primary reason that she created a program to train paraprofessionals to handle legal work in the immigration realm. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.  
When most of law school faculty were straight white men, how did those who were not bring change?25 Oct 202100:50:58
In the late 1980s, law school groups for gay and lesbian students met off campus in case members didn’t want the school community to know their sexual orientation. And there were so few female faculty at law schools, if two or more were seen together talking, male faculty would ask what they were up to. So if they were actually up to something, such as persuading their dean to adopt a faculty parental leave policy that was longer than a few weeks, they would meet off campus, too. Special thanks to our sponsor, LawPay.
Want to change a veteran's life through pro bono? There's a manual for that20 Oct 202100:29:02
Since World War II, more than two million service members have been discharged from U.S. military service with a status other than "honorable discharge." Having a discharge that falls below a certain level can impact a veteran's access to pensions, GI Bill education benefits, health care, insurance or home loans, as well as carrying a stigma. But when a veteran's circumstances are given another look, there may have been mitigating factors that weren't considered at the time of their discharge. As we've gained more understanding of conditions like post-traumatic stress disorder and addiction, it's become clear that some behaviors once seen as prompted by malice or poor character might instead have been a symptom of mental illness or a rational response to trauma like military sexual assault. A discharge status could also have been given as an act of retaliation, or because of bias and discrimination. There can be a possible remedy: requesting a military discharge upgrade. For the first time in 30 years, there is a new manual to help guide veterans and their legal counsel through the process of requesting an upgrade, giving a fully updated look at a process that can be challenging to navigate. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles speaks with Dana Montalto, one of the authors of the Military Discharge Upgrade Legal Practice Manual and an attorney and instructor with the Veterans Legal Clinic at Harvard Law's Legal Services Center. Getting a discharge upgrade can be life-changing for a veteran, and the work can be done by a pro bono attorney, says Montalto. It's not an area of the law that features in law school classes, which is one of the reasons there was a push to create this new resource. In this episode, Montalto shares how she became involved in veterans legal services, answers some common questions lawyers have when considering pro bono work in this area, and talks about the many people and organizations who took part in the yearslong process of creating this resource.  
How SCOTUS enabled police abuses of civil rights–and what we can do about it13 Oct 202100:26:34
Much has been said about police officers and departments who violate civil rights or enforce the law in discriminatory ways. But not as much attention has been paid to the ways in which the U.S. Supreme Court has enabled police excesses and insulated police from civil or criminal responsibility, says Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of the University of California at Berkeley School of Law and author of the new book Presumed Guilty: How the Supreme Court Empowered the Police and Subverted Civil Rights. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Chemerinsky discusses why the Supreme Court did not address police powers during the first century of its existence; why the Warren Court was an aberration when it came to curtailing police powers; and what his experience was like when he investigated the Los Angeles Police Department’s notorious Rampart Division in 2000. While Chemerinsky is not in favor of abolishing police, he also suggests several pathways for the American people to reform policing systems and buttress Fourth Amendment protections without relying on the Supreme Court to hold police accountable. He also shares how he was able to finish his book on an accelerated deadline while juggling his work as an ABA Journal columnist and a dean of a law school during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Why this BigLaw firm is embracing an ‘augmented automation solution’ for clients13 Oct 202100:32:31
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati announced last month that it had teamed up with Workiva Inc. to create an application that automates the S-1 form that companies must file with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission when going public. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
Career Shift: How Krystal Williams Pivoted from Business to Law29 Sep 202100:35:05
Meg Steenburgh welcomes Krystal Williams to discuss her unconventional path to law. After many years as a business professional, Krystal’s hunger for learning led her to shift her sights to law. She shares some of her experiences as an older student and discusses where her legal career has taken her in the years since law school.  Krystal Williams is founder of Providentia Group, chairman of the board of KinoTek Software, and founder of The Alpha Legal Foundation. Thank you to our sponsor NBI.
How to market your legal services to Hispanic clients22 Sep 202100:35:47
Hispanics are becoming an increasingly large segment of the U.S. population, and for an enterprising lawyer, serving the legal needs of Spanish-speaking clients seems like a solid business development goal. But running your existing marketing materials through Google Translate and slapping "Se habla español" on your website is not enough, says Liel Levy of Nanato Media. Along with Natalie Fragkouli, his wife and business partner, Levy has written Beyond Se Habla Español: How Lawyers Win the Hispanic Market to share their tips on marketing legal services to Lantinx communities. By segmenting the Hispanic market in the U.S. into demographics based on acculturation–for example, whether they consider Spanish to be their first language, or how recently their family has come to the United States–there is data that can show how each group can be most effectively reached by advertising. Levy and Fragkouli can help lawyers figure out the best way to connect with the people they can best serve within their practice areas. In this episode of The Modern Law Library, Levy speaks with the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles about his own journey from growing up as a member of an Israeli family in Mexico City, to summers in his teens helping his uncle promote his law firm in Los Angeles, to launching Nanato Media in Austin, Texas. He shares some common missteps that law firms make with courting Hispanic clientele; some of the attributes that many Hispanic consumers share; the ways to quickly drum up business; and long-term strategies for building community connections.  
A Trip Down Memory Lane22 Sep 202100:30:47
Joe and Kathryn break down the long-awaited John Durham indictment that tagged former Perkins Coie partner Michael Sussmann and find it... less than persuasive. Emory Law School has yet another racial slur in class incident, forcing the gang to ask if there's something in the water down there. But given that the most recent incident involves the brother of another repeat offender on this score, maybe it's just a family thing. And finally, Above the Law looks back at the day that launched an internet trend and renamed a law school forever. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.
Users keepers: Pirates, zombies and adverse possession10 Apr 202400:32:33
“Trespassing plus time equals adverse possession,” Paul Golden writes in his new book, Litigating Adverse Possession Cases: Pirates v. Zombies. When someone has occupied or used a piece of property as though they own it for long enough, a court could determine that they are the rightful owner—regardless of what the paperwork says. It’s a concept more popularly discussed as squatter’s rights. In this episode of The Modern Law Library, Golden speaks with the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles about the ancient concepts underlying modern adverse possession law; some quirky state laws; and why societies would allow land to be transferred in this way. They also discuss how the plain meaning of terms like “hostile” are changed when used in adverse possession cases, and Rawles raises a hypothetical—taken from real life—of a neighbor’s crooked fence. During Golden’s first appearance on The Modern Law Library, he explained how the lack of a written contract could be navigated by a savvy lawyer. In his new book, Golden guides attorneys and their clients through the finer points of arguing for and against adverse possession claims. He shares some of the errors he’s seen pop up in adverse possession cases, and offers advice for how to avoid common pitfalls. Modern Law Library listeners have been given a promotional discount code for Litigating Adverse Possession Cases: Pirates v. Zombies through May 10, 2024. For 20% off, go to the ABA’s online shop and enter LAPC2024 at checkout.
Lawyers Behaving All Kinds Of Badly15 Sep 202100:29:21
We talk about misbehaving lawyers a lot, but there must be a full moon (per statute a moon "at least 95 percent wholly spherical when measured by appropriate telescopic instruments") or something for lawyers right now because they're wild this week! We've got Biglaw attorneys injecting food with blood, lawyers waving loaded guns around over COVID protocols, a deeply scandalous and tragic situation out of South Carolina, and Justice Amy Coney Barrett running her mouth off with the lack of self-awareness you'd expect from someone who spread a deadly infection to the White House. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.
Why an online legal marketplace has added tech companies and other alternative providers15 Sep 202100:24:23
Priori is an online platform known for using data and technology to connect in-house legal teams with lawyers and law firms who can assist with a wide variety of projects. But Basha Rubin, CEO and co-founder at Priori, says the company noticed that clients were sometimes turning to its online marketplace for help with problems that “might be best solved by a ‘new law’ company or a nontraditional legal provider.” Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
A tale of love, loss and conservatorships in the Golden Age of Hollywood08 Sep 202100:35:19
Britney Spears' legal battle over the conservatorship that put her under the control of her father brought international attention to the conservatorship system. But many other rich and famous people have–appropriately or not–also found themselves in the grips of a system that is much more easy to enter than to leave. In Twilight Man: Love and Ruin in the Shadows of Hollywood and the Clark Empire, author Liz Brown tells the life story of Harrison Post, a story that starts in the Gilded Age and moves through the Golden Age of Hollywood, a film noiresque tale of betrayal, and a WWII fight for survival inside concentration camps. It's a story that began for Brown years ago when she discovered Post's signed photo inside her late grandmother's possessions and felt gripped by the gaze of the dark-eyed young man. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Brown tells the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles how she discovered Post's distant connection to her own family. Post was the lover and longtime companion of William Andrews Clark Jr., founder of the Los Angeles Philharmonic orchestra and heir to a Montana mining fortune. Clark, who was much older than Post, provided a trust to ensure that Post would be taken care of after his death. But his good intentions were foiled when Post's sister and her husband became Post's conservators and energetically began draining that trust. Only after they had completed selling off Post's possessions and draining his funds did they move to end the conservatorship and free Post, who fled Hollywood in the hope of finding a safe new life in Norway–just before the Nazis invaded. Brown discusses her research methods, including the providential discovery of Post's journals, in the podcast. She shares how anti-Jewish and homophobic public opinion may have played into Post's treatment, and how Clark's father's political shenanigans led directly to the passage of the 17th Amendment.
Following a viral video, Harvard Law School student finds ways to connect remotely30 Aug 202100:24:11
Many Harvard Law School students knew of classmate Rehan Staton through a July 2020 video that went viral, which featured him opening a Harvard Law School acceptance email. There’s a lot more to him than the video, and Staton wanted to connect with classmates more significantly while they attended remote classes over the past year. Special thanks to our sponsor, LawPay.
How LinkedIn can help lawyers develop and market their brands25 Aug 202100:43:04
How do you use LinkedIn? Do you see it as a static resume, or is it the equivalent of your morning newspaper? For Marc W. Halpert, LinkedIn is the most effective way lawyers and other professionals can build their brand, display expertise in niche markets, and nurture business relationships. Halpert was so convinced of this that in 2017, he wrote a book on LinkedIn marketing techniques. Enough has changed in the swiftly moving internet landscape that he is now releasing a new edition of the book, LinkedIn Marketing Techniques for Law and Professional Practices, Second Edition. Do you feel awkward sharing your thoughts on LinkedIn? Finding own your voice and using it authentically is extremely important, Halpert counsels. As a LinkedIn consultant for professionals, he coaches people on how to use LinkedIn to demonstrate your worth to clients, colleagues–and recruiters. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Halpert shares what's changed in the past four years, how the pandemic has made online networking more important than ever, and the most common missteps he has seen lawyers make on LinkedIn. He discusses how he works LinkedIn into his day and when to say no to someone who wants to connect with you. He also warns about ethical pitfalls to steer clear of, and common faux pas people should avoid.
This online platform aims to help pro se litigants with complex civil cases18 Aug 202100:30:40
Sonja Ebron and her wife, Debra Slone, saw firsthand how difficult it can be to represent yourself in civil cases through experiences they had being sued and suing others. Ebron says the couple’s legal battles spanning several different practice areas ultimately prompted them to develop a platform called Courtroom5, an online toolbox that helps self-represented litigants handle their cases from start to finish.  Unlike many other technological tools for pro se litigants, Ebron says Courtroom5 is particularly well-suited to help people with complex civil matters and can be utilized by consumers nationwide.  “Our goal is to simplify the process as much as possible for people who first of all really don’t want to be in court and secondly don’t have the legal background,” she says. The company, which is based in Durham, North Carolina, is also working to add a feature to help users connect with lawyers for a-la-carte services. In this new episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, Ebron discusses the build-up to the launch of Courtroom5 in 2017 and breaks down the different ways the platform can assist users. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
How neurodiverse lawyers can thrive in the profession–and change it for the better11 Aug 202100:49:30
There’s a business case to be made for hiring attorneys with ADHD, autism, learning disabilities and other neurological differences. Businesses have long touted out-of-the-box thinking, but cookie-cutter hiring practices don’t tend to result in diversity of thought. A legal professional who quite literally thinks differently can be an invaluable part of a team. In her book Great Minds Think Differently: Neurodiversity for Lawyers and Other Professionals, autistic attorney Haley Moss provides guidance for firms looking to add neurodiverse employees; develop better working relationships with neurodiverse clients; and create more supportive workplaces to help their neurodiverse employees perform at their peak. But she also approaches the issue from the point of view of neurodiverse people looking to enter the profession and thrive within it, whether by advocating for accommodations or leaning in to the way their brain functions best. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles and Moss discuss Moss's journey as a child who was non-verbal to an adult with a law degree, law firm job and numerous public-speaking engagements. They also talk about how COVID-19 has shown law firms that flexible work arrangements are possible and desirable, and what that could mean for neurodiverse attorneys seeking accommodations. Moss shares tips for students entering law school this fall, or who are attempting to pass the bar exam. And Moss also shares an anecdote about how her very literal way of thinking during research helped her firm successfully advocate for a recusal. If you are someone who never received a diagnosis as a child but have wondered whether you may have a condition like ADHD or autism, she also offers suggestions for how you could explore it further.
ABA Journal: Asked and Answered : For this lawyer, becoming more flexible was a benefit of the pandemic26 Jul 202100:35:14
Patrick Krill, a lawyer who has a consulting business focused on addiction, mental health and well-being in the legal profession, left all social media, except LinkedIn, during the COVID-19 pandemic. He did it for his own mental health and says any business development benefits that came from Twitter or Facebook were not worth the trade-off. Special thanks to our sponsor, LawPay.
ABA Journal: Modern Law Library : Can the raucous history of Chicago's lakefront teach us how to preserve land for public use?21 Jul 202100:38:56
Chicago's lakefront with its parks, museums, beaches and public spaces is an accident of history. But can we take lessons from that history to create sustainable and environmentally responsible public spaces? Joseph D. Kearney and Thomas W. Merrill look at the political, commercial and legal wrangling–some of which involved very strange bedfellows–that led to the development of lakefront land and its preservation for public use in their new book, Lakefront: Public Trust and Private Rights in Chicago.   From the enigmatic Aaron Montgomery Ward, who amassed a massive fortune that funded his legal battles to keep the lake views from his flagship store, to the rapscallion "Captain" George Wellington Streeter, whose squad of armed squatters long held the land that now forms the neighborhood of Streeterville, Kearney and Merrill share the backstories of a number of the historical figures who helped make the Chicago lakefront what it is today. They also dig into one of the city's most ambitious engineering projects: reversing the flow of the Chicago River to carry its sewage away from Lake Michigan–to the dismay of the cities downstream.   Quirks of urban history and competing public and private interests led to landmark cases which created legal doctrines still in use today. And the legal wrangling is far from over; in recent years, a Star Wars museum proposed by George Lucas and the presidential library of Barack Obama have both run into lawsuits over how lakefront land can be used and developed.   In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Kearney and Merrill discuss the shenanigans that ultimately gave the city and the state of Illinois one of its most priceless parcels of land and preserves it for public use. They also discuss how they envision other local, state and federal entities could use some of this history when designing land use regulations and protecting resources for public use.
ABA Journal: Legal Rebels : How one bankruptcy software company had a banner year despite filings hitting a low21 Jul 202100:33:15
When COVID-19 began hitting the United States hard in spring 2020, Janine Sickmeyer was among those in the bankruptcy world who thought that there would be a tsunami of cases. But contrary to the prognostications of many, the influx of bankruptcy matters never materialized. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
James Patterson dishes on his new legal thriller, ‘The #1 Lawyer’20 Mar 202400:37:19
James Patterson has written bestsellers in many genres. But as he tells the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles in this episode of The Modern Law Library, he has always been fascinated by legal thrillers, courtroom dramas and crime novels. He even considered becoming a lawyer, before his literary career took off. In his newest release, The #1 Lawyer, James Patterson partnered with co-author Nancy Allen to tell the story of Stafford Lee Penney, a criminal defense attorney in Biloxi, Mississippi, who’s never lost a case. But after handing a high-profile murder trial involving the son of a mobster, Penney finds himself on the other side of the bench as a defendant himself, charged with murdering his own wife. Patterson has written and co-written more than 300 books, including bestselling series like Alex Cross, Women’s Murder Club and Maximum Ride. He had some writing tips for attorneys, particularly on how to work collaboratively. As Patterson tells listeners in the podcast, he is open about working with other writers on many of his books, and he finds tools like outlining absolutely essential. He also shares with Rawles how he thinks co-writers should handle interpersonal communication while working together. Patterson says one of the major benefits of working with co-authors is pulling from their experiences to make his books more accurate and true to life. When he wrote The President is Missing with Bill Clinton, the former president could tell Patterson the inside details of how a Secret Service detail worked. When he wrote Run, Rose, Run with Dolly Parton, she walked him through the production cycle for a song. Allen, who conducted more than 30 jury trials as a prosecutor in Missouri and taught law for 15 years at Missouri State University, contributed her firsthand courtroom experience to The #1 Lawyer. Patterson says they worked to make everything as accurate as possible—while still allowing for a good story. It’s the pair’s second book together, following a previous standalone novel, Juror #3. In this episode of The Modern Law Library, Patterson shares some of his favorite law-related pop culture picks; news about new and ongoing projects; and describes a very special birthday event with Dolly Parton. He also discusses how his children’s series Maximum Ride got caught up in Florida book bans in 2023. For fans of Patterson’s breakout success, the Alex Cross series launched in 1993 with Along Came a Spider, the author shares updates about what’s next for the intrepid detective—including details about the upcoming Amazon Prime TV series Cross, starring Aldis Hodge.  
ABA Journal: Modern Law Library : Do we need to rethink how we handle classified leaks?07 Jul 202100:36:26
As the 50th anniversary of the Pentagon Papers case approached, First Amendment scholars Lee Bollinger and Geoffrey Stone knew they wanted to mark the occasion somehow. Much has changed since RAND Corporation employee Daniel Ellsberg decided spend weeks photocopying some 7,000 pages of a classified report on the war in Vietnam and sneaking them out via his briefcase to be published by the New York Times and the Washington Post. For one thing, since 2011, the complete report has been made available to the public by the National Archives. For another, it has become both easier to download and spirit away classified information, and easier to use digital trails to identify any leakers. In the digital age, should we still be using the Pentagon Papers case as precedent, and how should we approach modern examples of leakers like Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning and Reality Winner? Bollinger and Stone gathered together about 30 experts in the fields of national security, journalism and academia to tackle the questions raised by 50 years of post-Pentagon Papers jurisprudence. The commission's report and essays from the various contributors were compiled into the book National Security, Leaks and Freedom of the Press: The Pentagon Papers Fifty Years On. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Bollinger and Stone discuss their experience working on the project, the developments they found most surprising, and some of the best practices suggested by the commission.
ABA Journal: Asked and Answered : Saying yes has been part of this law school dean’s strategy during the COVID-19 pandemic28 Jun 202100:29:49
As the dean of Pennsylvania State University's law school during the COVID-19 pandemic, and at a time of significant social unrest, Hari Osofsky tried to say yes whenever possible. Leadership involves taking in a variety of viewpoints, she explains, and recognizing what students, professors and administration want is a good way to guarantee people that they are being heard. Special thanks to our sponsor, LawPay.
ABA Journal: Modern Law Library : Summer reading and a book coming to the silver screen23 Jun 202100:25:10
Summer is upon us, vaccinations are making travel safer, and you may be looking forward to getting some leisure reading done. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, host Lee Rawles shares some of the books she’s read since our favorites reads of 2020 episode. We are also re-airing a 2017 interview we did with David Grann, author of Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI. A film adaptation of the book is currently in production, with Martin Scorsese directing and Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, Jesse Plemmons and Lily Gladstone featured as actors. Check out the interview before the movie's expected release in 2022.   Mentioned in this episode: The Premonition, by Michael Lewis https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393881554   In Such Good Company: Eleven Years of Laughter, Mayhem, and Fun in the Sandbox, by Carol Burnett https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/259024/in-such-good-company-by-carol-burnett/   The Second World War, by Anthony Beevor https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/antony-beevor/the-second-world-war/9780316084079/   D-Day: The Battle for Normandy, by Anthony Beevor https://www.penguinrandomhouseaudio.com/book/288959/d-day/   A Fatal Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum: A Cultural History of Murder in Ancient Rome, by Emma Southon https://www.emmasouthon.com/a-fatal-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum   The Pacific War Trilogy by Ian W. Toll   - Pacific Crucible: War at Sea in the Pacific, 1941-1942 https://wwnorton.com/books/pacific-crucible   - The Conquering Tide: War in the Pacific Islands, 1942-1944 https://wwnorton.com/books/the-conquering-tide   - Twilight of the Gods: War in the Western Pacific, 1944-1945 https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393080650   The Romanovs: 1613-1918, by Simon Sebag Montefiore https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/116185/the-romanovs-by-simon-sebag-montefiore/   500 Miles from You, by Jenny Colgan https://www.harpercollins.com/products/500-miles-from-you-jenny-colgan?variant=32128904626210   Scottish Bookshop series by Jenny Colgan https://www.goodreads.com/series/263886-scottish-bookshop   Practical Magic, by Alice Hoffman https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/287086/practical-magic-by-alice-hoffman-with-a-new-introduction-by-the-author/
ABA Journal: Legal Rebels : A new evidence management tool aims to help public defenders process video and audio16 Jun 202100:29:25
Devshi Mehrotra and her classmate Leslie Jones-Dove, who was also passionate about criminal justice reform, contacted local public defenders in the Chicago area to see how the two technologists could potentially be of help. They responded by developing a technology platform known as JusticeText, an AI-powered evidence management tool primarily geared toward public defenders. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
ABA Journal: Modern Law Library : 'Vice Patrol' examines how police and courts enforced anti-gay laws before Stonewall09 Jun 202100:46:21
A red tie. Manicured nails. Bleached hair. Loafers. The width of a person's hips. These are just a few of the things cited by vice patrol cops as indicators of someone's sexual preferences in the 1930s through the 1960s. In Vice Patrol: Cops, Courts, and the Struggle Over Urban Gay Life Before Stonewall, author Anna Lvovsky examines the way that queer communities were policed in the 1930s through the 1960s.
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