What is codependency? And from where do codependent behaviors emerge? Every 'codependent' has an origin story. This is Brian's.

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

Our new book is available in paperback, eBook and audiobook format! You, Me & Us: Moving Beyond Relational Trauma and Disorder (Anxious/Avoidant Attachment, Codependency, BPD) to Build a Stable, Lasting Relationship. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FC6KCKNT

* We have learned a lot as we have done this podcast. One thing Brian realized is that he underestimated the impact his parent's behaviors, particularly his father's, had on him. We talk about his father a little in the next episode on Trauma, but if you want to hear his updated thinking on the topic, you can listen to Season 3, episode 5, Beyond Codependency - Family of Origin

In this episode:

00:01:41 What is codependency? 00:04:47 History of the word 00:08:01 Codependency as maladaptive behavior habits 00:09:49 Origins of Brian’s codependent behavior habits 00:25:44 The specific behaviors that form ’codependency’

 

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Find us on Instagram @codependentmind 

Email: codependentmind@gmail.com

Often codependence behaviors emerge as a response to trauma. What is trauma? How is it different then other stressful, even violent, events? What is it like to live with unhealed trauma? This is Brian's story. 

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

In this episode:

00:00:55 What is trauma? 00:02:38 Working definition of trauma 00:05:01 Chronic or complex trauma 00:06:10 Family dynamics 00:09:21 The lasting effects of trauma 00:12:24 Codependent behaviors as trauma responses 00:16:03 Trauma and helplessness 00:18:17 Trauma triggers 00:22:55 Interpersonal trauma

* We have learned a lot as we have done this podcast. One thing Brian realized is that he underestimated the impact his parent's behaviors, particularly his father's, had on him. If you want to hear his updated thinking on the topic, you can listen to Season 3, episode 5, Beyond Codependency - Family of Origin

Website: https://www.codependentmind.com/

We appreciate likes, follows and reviews as it helps other people find the podcast. 

 

Even after largely healing from the trauma that started Brian down the path of codependency, he was still left with the behaviors that formed in response to that trauma. So although the source of the codependency had been removed, the symptoms, the habituated behaviors, lingered and kept showing up in his relationships in the form of a default sense of powerlessness. In this episode, we discuss what he is doing to finally kick the powerlessness habit.

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

Transcript

0:00   Hey Hello, this is Stephanie and this is Brian. Welcome to our podcast the making and the remaking of a codependent mind.

Brian  0:13   This is season two, episode four. And we've kind of come full circle at this point to back to the topic of codependency itself.

Stephanie  0:21   So this episode entitled healing codependency, breaking the powerlessness habit, we are going to discuss the specific behaviors, again, that make up the phenomena of codependency, behavior habits that form in response to trauma, abuse or neglect, and how you are trying to break those codependent behavior habits,

Brian  0:47   right for me, those behaviors were formed in response to that five year childhood friendship that we talked about several times throughout this series from when I was about four years old to when I was about 10. And how those behaviors were reinforced, or really kind of amplified by my family dynamic, specifically, my dad's behavior.

Stephanie  1:05   And then as you moved into adulthood, you brought those behaviors into pretty much every interpersonal relationship you had, you would assume responsibility for meeting other people's needs to the exclusion of acknowledging your own needs or feelings. And when the other person had a disordered personality, for instance, a narcissist or narcissistic tendencies, it had especially disastrous results. Yeah.

Brian  1:30   And although, you know, even when I was trying to relate to so called Healthy People, the behaviors didn't really serve me well, then either. So let's go back

Stephanie  1:40   to episode one of season one, that list of behaviors that you read out, in the very first episode that form this phenomena of codependency.

Brian  1:54   Yeah, okay. There is the feeling of responsibility for the emotions and actions of others. There's caretaking, people pleasing, struggling to set boundaries with other people. There's low self esteem and self worth, usually kind of a denial of autonomy or even identity. There's a trouble expressing emotions, kind of a fear of emotions really, or again, it's kind of back to this denial of autonomy. Did I have emotional autonomy and notional autonomy in this in this case, yeah. And then there's denying big picture or even situational problems like so there's where the storytelling and the dishonesty and compartmentalization come in. And then finally, enmeshment. In relationships with personality disordered chemically dependence or other codependence are really impulse disordered individuals. So people who trigger all these above behaviors, or at least somehow don't challenge them, when I come in contact with these people.

Stephanie  2:52   Hearing that list, again, it strikes me that the previous three episodes of the seasons of the first three episodes of this season really dealt with what you did to address the last four items on that list. So that's again, low self esteem, like denial of identity, trouble expressing emotions, fear of emotions, denying big picture, you know, it's developed, as you said, storytelling and normalization, and then investment in relationships. So these first three episodes, we talked about how you recognize and remove yourself from abusive relationships, how you repaired your emotional system and got over your fear of certain emotions and reconnected to your emotions, and then how you rewrote the stories that were keeping you in denial, and keeping you in meshed really, with disordered people, even when they weren't in your life anymore.

Brian  3:51   Yeah, so that kind of lays the groundwork for the healing really, more or less. But then what we're left with here is really the first four items on this list. So let me read these again, that feeling responsible for the emotions and actions of others, caretaking, people pleasing and struggling to set boundaries. These kinds of needs require us a different approach than then what we talked about in these first few episodes,

Stephanie  4:15   in that they were unconscious habitual responses, yeah, that you had to other people. And again, when those people were narcissists or other disordered people, they immediately exploited those tendencies. I want to go back to something we talked about in the first episode of the whole series, the word codependency itself as a kind of problematic word, as we said, coming out of addiction literature, so you had people who were seen as chemically dependent or alcohol dependent, and then people who were in relationship with them, and were enablers of them. Were caretaking them they were seen as codependence right kind

Brian  4:57   of like, as if these people became dependant on the caretaking itself. And really that's all it came down to in that early description of what codependency was.

Stephanie  5:07   Some of the issues are that the word dependency suggests a need. And then addiction we often see the word addiction and use that word is kind of proxy for intense craving, or desire. Right? And neither of those were really applicable in your case. In your case, you were replaying that original abusive relationship.

Brian  5:33   Right. Yeah, it isn't really accurate for me to say that I was addicted to these types of relationships, or even that I was somehow attracted to these type of people like, like, I think this is a common thing that people say, in response to codependent people, what it came down to, for me was that, because of my lack of self awareness, anytime a person came along, that basically triggered my trauma responses and or activated my codependent behaviors, I would just lean into those behaviors because I would become overwhelmed by the subconscious responses. So those behaviors would take over. And I would put all my efforts into essentially taking care of those people at whatever cost because, as you said, I was replanting the G relationship

Stephanie  6:13   in this habitual, unconscious way. Yeah, we had a whole episode on shame. Because it was so central to keeping you stuck, replaying that relationship, and it is one of the most painful emotions. And I guess powerlessness is not technically an emotion. But feeling powerless is super painful, in that it creates a whole cluster of these painful emotions. Yeah, you know, fear possibly being the primary one. It's really terrifying to feel powerless, right. But it can also generate shame and despair, all of these debilitating emotions. And it's potentially at the root of what makes an unpleasant or awful event into a traumatic event. That feeling of powerlessness in the face of what had happened. Yeah, exactly.

Brian  7:05   I definitely felt powerless in that childhood friendship. And then the echoes of that powerlessness kind of just took over from there. And it just infected everything from there forward.

Stephanie  7:16   And these behaviors, the caretaking, the people pleasing, were this effort to get out of this terrifying powerlessness state. Yeah. So habits, even benign ones are hard to break. Yeah, right. But you're faced with breaking these behavior habits, that were so critical in making yourself feel safe as this young child in this perilous situation. So how do you stop doing these behaviors? When, for so long? They were a source of a sense of safety for yourself,

Brian  7:57   seemingly anyway. Well, one of the big things that we've mentioned several times throughout this series is this idea of personal agency.

Stephanie  8:07   Yes. So being tied to personal power. These two concepts go very closely together. If you have a sense of agency, you have a sense of personal power, you have a sense that you can enact changes in the world. Yeah, so you desire,

Brian  8:22   right, it really goes hand in hand with regaining power. So this feeling pervasive feeling of powerlessness that I felt all those years becoming an agent, as we call it, is regaining that power. So the idea of becoming an agent involves several things, it isn't just a matter of, oh, suddenly, I feel powerful, you know, it requires first self awareness. Like, who am I?

Stephanie  8:48   There needs to be an agent there. Yeah, you need to? Yeah, you need to be able

Brian  8:51   to identify what the agent is, what are my values? What are my core values that really, I had been denying myself for so long, just kind of ignoring them? You know, because I felt like I had no power to really enact or work towards my values. And then what types of relationships do I want? What What kind of people do I want to be involved with, you know, not just romantically, but just in general, like, Who do I want to associate with? And then following that, what are my emotions telling me then? So part of what we talked about in one of the first three episodes here is being able to read the signals that my emotions are giving me, but I need to know who I am to know what those signals are otherwise, like, I don't, if I feel angry, great, I'm identifying that I feel angry. But what am I angry at? Why am I angry? I need to know what it is that I'm supposed to be acting on here. So one

Stephanie  9:37   of the things you have done to break this powerlessness habit is to think about who you are and what you want, from your life, what you want from relationships, and to articulate that consciously and repeatedly to yourself and to the people in your life.

Brian  9:53   Yeah, and just kind of keep that in mind. Like sort of not not like I have to keep telling myself like reading it every morning or something but just kind of just leaving it feeling it, although for a while

Stephanie  10:02   you had your kind of your core values posted above your desk just to kind of be a reminder that you were a person that wanted to act have both have values and act on values as an agent in the world,

Brian  10:15   right? Because that's that is reprogramming my habit of not having them or ignoring them. So yeah, kind of getting used to having it in the back of my mind at all times.

Stephanie  10:27   But even with that, there are these habitual behaviors that you bring into relationships, including our relationship, again, coming from this posture of powerlessness. Yeah, that was imposed upon you and your child, but then continued forward in all of your relationships. So almost really, in every relationship, professional, personal, this social, yeah, you're default posture would be the other person is more powerful than I am. Yeah,

Brian  11:00   the more work we did on all of this, the more painfully obvious that became, with so many different things.

Stephanie  11:07   So let's talk about one way in which that powerlessness is expressed in your relationships. And that's this curious phenomenon we identified as matching the need to match,

Brian  11:18   right, what we're talking about with matching here is, is not like, oh, I want to wear the similar outfit or something like that. It's, it's kind of, I mean, it can, it can mean that, but really, it's like matching to the core, like, I feel this kind of anxiety, if I don't match someone's emotions, even, you know, so somebody could be expressing anger or something, and then like, I just get sucked into it in a way. And immediately, that becomes the most important thing. So I'm matching it, if someone's sad, I've matched their sadness, if someone's happy, I matched their happiness, even if I don't understand why they're happy.

Stephanie  11:52   And I think this is a very human trait, we're, you know, we're extremely social animals. And all of us get a little uncomfortable if we don't match a group of people. So you think about see, if you walk into a room, and everyone's dressed in tuxedos and ball gowns, and you have ratty t shirt and shorts on, you're going to feel uncomfortable, because you don't match and you're not sure what's going on. So I mean, there's, you know, there's quite a bit of actually psychological research that, that shows the extent that people will go to kind of match a group, but with you, it kind of went to the pathological Yeah, so that you can get anxious, say, if you don't like a movie, that the person you with likes, yeah. Or someone's wearing long pants, and you were in shorts. So it's just a, it's been a

Brian  12:47   musical tastes, you know, I'll match that, you know, I have plenty of my own autonomy and what I like, but when it comes to trying to match up with someone else, like, I'll stop listening to certain things permanently, right to match the other person

Stephanie  13:00   you have, right? 

Brian  13:01   I have. Yeah.

Stephanie  13:02   Like you said, you had this level of anxieties, this habitual anxious response, yeah, to a seemingly disconnect between any person that you're talking to or involved with.

Brian  13:14   And in this kind of it, one thing that I think about here is, is with a lot of these behaviors, like we've talked about several times, is there's there's usually a healthy version of it. And I would say a healthy version of this matching would be empathy. You know. So, feeling and relating to some absolutely, yeah, you know, someone's sad, you may feel sad for that person or something,

Stephanie  13:34   right. Empathy is so critical to relationships and social situations, but you weren't, in fact, experiencing empathy. It was more about just trying to get close to whoever was in power.

Brian  13:45   Yeah, line myself up the person to try to keep myself safe, right.

Stephanie  13:49   And there's kind of a somewhat funny way that this has shown up in our relationship where I have a tendency to start sentences and then pause in the middle of them. We've spared the listeners of this podcast that experience by taking out some of those pauses. But so I'll do that. And you rush in and finish my sentence. 

Brian  14:12   Right. And so and so what's funny about it is it's not necessarily the fact that I'm finishing sentences. I mean, that's, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to keep conversation going, you know, but what we found to be problematic is the way I finish sentences that the context of it, like the matching the Finishing Sentences, thing is definitely anxiety and trauma base. It says if I'm anticipating disagreement or something like so I'm kind of trying to preemptively line myself up. So it's a version of the matching thing. So you'll be starting to say something and I think I know where you're going with what you're saying. I might not agree with it, but I'm going to try to line myself up with it anyway, like, or I can tell that maybe I think you're going to disagree with something that I'm about to say or something so I would step in and finish your sentences completely wrong. That's not actually what you were gonna say at all. But I'm just trying to, like, set myself up to be in line with you, right, essentially, with with these Finishing Sentences.

Stephanie  15:13   So it's both the kind of volume you have done it, but sometimes it seemed a little excessive. But then also, as you say, it became most obvious when maybe we're having a disagreement about where to go for lunch. And I start to express an agreement with your point of view, yes. Why don't we just go to lunch where you want to? And I'll start that sentence, why don't we just and you'll finish it, go to lunch, where you want to

Brian  15:41   right or stay home, or just like the opposite of what I was thinking basically, here,

Stephanie  15:46   as you said, trying to kind of preemptively line yourself up with me. So the way that you have tried to break that habit is to do the things that people do break habits in that notice when it's happening.

Brian  15:58   Yeah. So notice when it's happening, not just necessarily, I'm not necessarily trying to completely stop Finishing Sentences. But I want to see what the context is. I want to I want to I need to check myself on on what is my motivation for finishing the sentence? Yeah. And you could start finishing. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, that would be I'll get there.

Stephanie  16:17   Yeah, I'll finish my attendance. Eventually, most of the time.

Brian  16:21   pauses in a room doesn't have to cause anxiety. Yeah,

Stephanie  16:24   right. So noticing when it happens, and I pointed out too. Sure, that's fun for you. And then thinking about, is it coming from anxiety? Is it coming? Because you actually, we do match in that case? And it's just an authentic expression of what you want?

Brian  16:38   Yeah, it's really it's kind of a smaller scale trauma response, really, I think, because I was so used to being controlled, and my point of view or my once and desires are being ignored or even being abused for those ones

Stephanie  16:54   ridiculed and shamed. 

Brian  16:56   Yeah, so I'm just kind of habitually assuming that you are going to disagree with me or that you're going to somehow abuse me from my point of view.

Stephanie  17:03   And you've also tried to practice not matching, right? So again, if we go out, and I'm a little dressed up, but you hadn't planned on dressing up, you decide just to wear what you plan, you know, just to get a t shirt on, right? And, again, get more comfortable with that, with that experience. So similarly, there's been this people pleasing habit, show the need to be liked, or at least not to be disliked. Yeah.

Brian  17:30   Again, habitual response to an early experience with someone that demanded obedience.

Stephanie  17:37   And you needed to please him in order to keep yourself safe.

Brian  17:40   Yeah. And then from there forward, assume that I had to do that with everyone more or less Yeah, to so that they wouldn't dislike me or abuse me or whatever I was feeling was going to happen.

Stephanie  17:49   People pleasing for you was kind of compliance. That's how was expected can really be expressed in a variety of different ways. Though, again, kind of like matching, we all have an impulse to please the people with that we're with Yeah, right. We're around like, in fact, I remember reading about one study that was done with people who maintain they did not care what other people thought of them. Oh, right. Like they had, you know, no, I don't care. I'm, I'm happy with myself, I don't care at all. They put each of these people in a room and kind of hook them up to devices that that measured their physiological response. And so their heart rate and they're sweating. And then they had someone looking at the people and talking about them in a negative way. Oh, my, that guy's wearing a stupid shirt. And like, she looks like an idiot and stuff like that. And, and this was a stranger. And even the people who were adamant that they did not care what other people thought their physiological response showed otherwise, yeah. So their heart weighed, we increase, their sweat glands would open up, they would become kind of anxious or angry. Yeah, even when rationally, they were committed to the idea that what other people thought of them didn't matter. So we're wired to want to please other people.

Brian  19:07   Yeah. Which makes sense. Going back to evolution, again, being a species that cooperates at the core

Stephanie  19:14   and need each other to survive.  But again, that can be expressed in so many different ways. You're really going to fall back on whatever your strengths are. So you see a lot of people who are people pleasing in a more overt way than you so you know, compliments, you know, excessive compliments and yeah, and charm

Brian  19:34   people are using their strengths is what is what right seems to push down to So for some people, people are good at complimenting other people and showing admiration and then that kind of becomes their go to people pleasing style. And for me, it seemed to be making people feel comfortable, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's healthy versions of that. It's good to make people feel comfortable when they're made. They may be feeling anxious or for whatever reason, but I found since that was my strength. That's what that's what I use that was my go to people pleasing activity was, was compliance more or less, you know, extreme compliance where, no matter how awful someone may be, right, I'm gonna somehow make them feel as though they're okay.

Stephanie  20:15   Right. And the matching can be a part of that, right? You match their styles. And so this was a habit again that you did in most of your relationships.

Brian  20:23   And part of that is a struggle to say no, it's often how I got stuck in these awful friendships and relationships, too. I felt member feeling at the start of some of those friendships like, I don't know about this, like, this person is not great. But yeah, they're chasing me. They want to be friends 

Stephanie  20:43   with your first romantic relationships we talked about, for instance, you know, I had you had from the beginning, some doubts about 

Brian  20:50   Yeah, red flags, being abuse being a big one.

Stephanie  20:54   So getting comfortable with people being displeased with you has been hard.

Brian  21:07   So it's not necessarily just confronting people, it's even allowing myself to have thoughts about things that someone else may disagree with. So you know, so here comes the pre emptive, lining myself up with people. So like finishing sentences and matching, it doesn't even have to be a specific interaction, it just kind of like I'm just going to preemptively just always try to line myself up. So in order to break this habit, I've had to do several things that involve kind of checking myself on a regular basis. When I am interacting with someone, I have to kind of ask myself, Who is this other person? How do I feel about them? Do I agree with them? Is this a person worth pleasing? Yeah, is this person even worth pleasing? Exactly? And how do my values come into play here?

Stephanie  21:52   Right, so if they are worth pleasing, so you want to eliminate off the top kind of all the people that you shouldn't be working to please - narcissists, idiots. And then, as you say, think about your own values, even if the person is worth pleasing. Are you are you aligned in this in an authentic way with this person?

Brian  22:13   And like so many of these healing steps, there's a lot of anxiety involved in that because it's, it's, I get a lot of fear, when I think about displeasing someone no matter who it is. So having this kind of roadmap of being able to pause and think about these things, diminishes that a little bit. I'm not just giving in to this fear, and just automatically habitually lining myself up with someone and then feeling shame immediately afterwards, you know,

Stephanie  22:37   and the unfortunate thing is, that type of behavior does please, people like narcissists, but it doesn't please healthy people in your life long term. It's not a route to intimacy. So what I want from you, is not for you always to agree with me for you always to be aligned with me, for you to make sure that I'm never disappointed or displeased. What I want is to know you, your authentic person and have an authentic connection. So if I start to feel like you're just telling me what I want to hear, because you're afraid that I might be displeased or disappointed, well, I can be disappointed. I mean, I can I can handle that. That's not a problem. I don't want I don't want is I don't want to be lied to.

Brian  23:21   Yeah, I mean, what we want real actual dialogue, real honest, intimate dialogue. I mean, otherwise, what's the point, 

Stephanie  23:28   but this is a habit. So yeah, again, it's not just a matter of realizing that you do it.  You've had to keep practicing over and over again, getting comfortable. With disappointing or just pleasing people. In professional relationships as well.

Brian  23:44   Yeah, work has actually been a really good practice for that. Because I've found that was kind of really my entry level, I think, tests for a lot of these things, because I don't have as high stakes with those relationships. You know, I used to feel that way. You know, like, Oh, my God, my whole job is on the line here so I can't I can't make anyone displeased at my work, you know, so, but yeah, it's it's been a good training ground and then you know, I've kind of taken it steps further with like, just all my relationships, including my family and just being more real

Stephanie  24:19   and more comfortable with other people having reactions that that might be difficult for them.  So this is very aligned with another habit that you're working on breaking and that is the difficulty setting boundaries.

Brian  24:34   The subject was one I really had to read a lot about because it's it's a it's a buzzword, kind of like you see it everywhere boundaries, boundaries,

Stephanie  24:41   and we're gonna probably have a whole episode on boundaries. Next in the third season.

Brian  24:45   Yeah. But really what it comes down to is what do I find acceptable or unacceptable behavior in my interaction towards me. So having actual expectations of people and sticking to those expectations. If someone does something that I know is just No, that's, I don't agree with that, I don't like that. I need to know how to react to that. I need to feel as though I have enough power to react the way I want to react

Stephanie  25:13   to enforce the boundary. So this, there's no point of having imaginary boundaries. There needs to be some sense of

Brian  25:22   yeah, if you're never going to enforce me never gonna enforce something. Right.

Stephanie  25:25   So I am remembering actually, we had a conversation kind of early in our relationship when I was hearing a lot about how you were treated by J and how you're treated by our were I? Especially J, because you're still maintaining that relationship was fine. Yeah. Right. So you know, I kind of asked that we both kind of write down or express what our expectations were in relationships in terms of Yeah, we were saying how, how, how do you expect your partner to treat you? And and most of what you stand in terms of what you expected a party to treat with? treat you? Was not how Jay treated you. So I was like, This sounds like an aspirational. It's like talking about what's the like, what's your walkout? What would have made you walk out of that relationship? And you couldn't express that because you didn't know how to stand on your boundary and say, Here no further. Drawing a line. And if you cross this line, I'm out.

Brian  26:23   That was a very early conversation, and I don't remember how it ended, but I was nowhere near where we are now. So I'm sure it would just like well, you know, I mean, I try to get those things.

Stephanie  26:35   Yeah, it was.

Brian  26:36   You know, but I didn't even do that. Really. I mean, I just I had no boundaries. I mean, that that's, that's what it came down to with codependent person with a narcissist. That's often the case is there's I may think I have boundaries, but I'm never going to enforce them. 

Stephanie  26:54   Yeah, so they're meaningless. And this is another case where work has been a helpful practice ground for that.

Brian  27:02   Yeah, actually, one of the one of the earliest times I can remember I had there was this coworker that I didn't have a good relationship with. I never have and a lot of people don't just her style of interacting with people is very kind of aggressive and abusive. Yeah, yeah. people yelling, throwing people under the bus just not all around not good. And conversations with her on the phone. Every time she called me it was to somehow blame me for something or just like, try to find blame or place blame or you know, and it was never constructive. And I finally got to a point where I told her like that, I mean, I had a very uncomfortable conversation, where I more or less said, you know, I'm not going to have these phone calls with you anymore. So we're going to deal with things on email, or we're not going to deal with them at all. I mean, that's just, that's the way I'm going to, I'm going to handle this from here forward. 

Stephanie  27:51   And that was that was pretty big for you, because she would almost call them once on a daily basis. Yeah, I think because you were the few people who took her call. Yeah, I know. I think so. And get anxious to see her name. 

Brian  28:01   And she started texting after that.

Stephanie  28:05   But it was, it was like, no, you're not allowed to talk, you can't treat me appropriately on the phone, you're not allowed to talk to me on the phone.

Brian  28:13   I'm cutting you off on the phone. I mean, it sounds it may sound bizarre, because you know, it's work, you should be able to talk to your co workers. Actually, it doesn't sound bizarre, but I mean, so it made me very uncomfortable, because I was flooding myself with excuses and reasons why I shouldn't do this.

Stephanie  28:29   This kind of anxiety about what the consequences might be, and this fear of power that she might have over you to to retaliate in some way. When really the only thing I have well, she tried to fax but didn't respond to this is nothing happened she stopped calling you stopped having to take this call.

Brian  28:45   And in fact, I hoped for now we were dealing with things by email, we have records of it, it's not accusatory, or if it is accusatory there's other people on copy.

Stephanie  28:55   So with all these things, the only way to break the habits is to break the habit, is to replace the habit with positive behavior.

Brian  29:03   So it's constantly checking myself, that's really what this episode comes down to, is, if I if I'm feeling off about something, check, pause, look, again, it's like the emotion thing, where where are these feelings coming from?

Stephanie  29:18   And the feelings usually are anxiety and fear. Yeah, you know, these feelings that come out of the sense of powerlessness.

Brian  29:24   Yeah, so there's one more piece that is something that we have been very aware of on a daily basis these days. And, and it's language, I found language to be a lot more powerful than I initially thought it was. It really kind of subconsciously directs my behaviors. I think in a lot of cases. It's not just wordplay

Stephanie  29:45   if not directing your behavior, certainly reinforcing it, right? 

Brian  29:49   So there's so many different ways I found that my language has kind of kept me stuck in codependent behaviors.

Stephanie  29:57   We've identified a few examples you Yeah, how the center powerful powerlessness comes out in some language behaviors,

Brian  30:05   it just embeds itself in our conversations and it comes out very regularly unless both of us kind of stay on top of it and monitor it. And, but one of them a big one being the overuse of the word, WWE. So I have a tendency to use the word weak in place of when I should otherwise be using I in a lot of cases, or even you and I, or both of us, or each of us, or something like that, right? Where it's just we liked that movie, or something,

Stephanie  30:36   you know, exactly. So using we, if it's a shared activity, you know, you're reporting we went to the mall, right? Because we went to the mall together. But you use it, as you said, to express thoughts and feelings even Yeah, and we like or what we thought of something. Yeah. And

Brian  30:53   sometimes it could be true that both of us like to something right, but it's not a good habit to say, or we like to

Stephanie  31:00   that. Just, again, to the extent that you did it,

Brian  31:03   it went along with what we were saying earlier about the matching really, because it's kind of I was unconsciously coupling myself with someone to relieve the pressure of being an individual and having autonomy, right? So if I say, Should we do this, you know, it's like, okay, I want you to tell me what we should do, rather than I kind of want to do this. Would you like to do that too? Or what would you what do you want to do?

Stephanie  31:27   And that's connected to another one that we've noticed where you ask questions. Yeah, yeah. Rather than make assertions. The example you just gave where you could say, I'd like to go out for lunch. Would you like to eat for lunch? You'll start with, not the assertion of what you want, you'll start with Should we go out? It's a good idea.

Brian  31:50   It's kind of a double two in one, right? So it's, I'm asking you, I have an idea. But rather than presenting it as idea, I want you to give the idea by asking you, but then also I'm throwing in we should we go out to lunch, in a very passive and very much not attached to the results to I, I'm kind of preemptively and sometimes I'll even throw in something at the end. I've heard a lot of people do this. Should we go to lunch or not? Right? Let's throw in there like, oh, just so you know, I'm okay. If you say no, here, like, I'm going to cover the whole the whole spectrum. I'm not just going to say I want to go to lunch. What about you? Because you may say no. And I Oh, no. Oh, no. I have to what happened? We just disagreed on something when I go from here, you know.

Stephanie  32:40   So it does seem very connected to well, the whole thing matching people pleasing that that, as you say, feeling uncomfortable standing separately as a separate individual. Yeah. There's also the language that everyone can fall into this language of fatalism or defeatism Yeah, yeah, again, the world's out to get me or Yeah. And like all of this, it's a question of degree, we all do this. But again, you are trying to break that habit as well and try not to use those phrases. For instance, you would say like, who knows a lot right now. Yeah. Everything's unknowable.

Brian  33:21   But also, if we go back a callback to the to the episode, previous episode, and stories, these stories that I had about myself, like, I am uninteresting, I am unattractive, kind of like carrying this these definitive defeatist terms for myself, it could be like, Oh, I am not good at that. So I'm not even gonna try, right? Because, or even, like we've mentioned before, also, I am an alcoholic or something like that, where it's just like you're, you're labeling yourself in kind of this permanent way. And then you're kind of setting yourself up to be that I am uninteresting. Therefore, I'm going to keep that in mind every time I come in contact with people and I'm just assuming that they have no interest in what I'm saying.

Stephanie  34:03   So I'm going to actually become an so I'm gonna be you're gonna manifest that Yeah, right.

Brian  34:08   I mean, it's it's it is self fulfilling prophecy, that language could lead to self fulfilling prophecies.

Stephanie  34:13   We should mention to one linguistic habit that you yourself don't really do. But I think a lot of people who are on the codependent spectrum or have you know, have many of these codependent behaviors do and that is apologizing. Yeah, right. So that's very similar to these other habits that you have like preemptively aligning yourself with someone else preemptively taking responsibility for the situation and for managing the situation and managing their emotions around that situation even before you even know if an apology is warranted. Right.

Brian  34:50   And a lot of times it isn't, you know, it's that yeah, this is a good one to mention here even though it for whatever reason isn't one that I've used as a restraint is a very common thing.

Stephanie  35:02   No, I have, you know, a number of friends and even family who seemed to be compulsive apologize.  Well, apparently the whole country of Canada is very apologetic. So maybe they're all on the codependency spectrum.

Brian  35:14   I mean, I really it's interesting that I don't use that. I mean, because I've used so many other things, but maybe just because I am just quicker at lining myself, preemptively before I need to get to an apology.  Yeah, I'm already on the same page, I've already made myself on the same page. 

Stephanie  35:32   So you're good at compliance. Yeah, we should clarify something here about breaking the powerlessness habit, we're not suggesting that the opposite is true, that you were somebody is all powerful in every situation,

Brian  35:47   right, really, in every situation is gonna be a mix, kind of having some power and control and also being subjected to forces that are beyond my control. So like, in the work example, I gave, where I told my coworker that I wasn't going to take her calls anymore. She had some power over me in that she could have called my boss and complained and possibly even got me fired. But I had power as well. One, I'm a white male, that gives me some power in this country that many people don't have. And I've been with this company for many years, and I'm considered a valuable worker. And I work in a field where I can pretty easily get another comparable job.

Stephanie  36:27   So when we're talking about breaking the powerlessness habit, that's the kind of calculation that we're encouraging to not just default in every situation, especially interpersonal ones, to a posture of powerlessness, not just assume that you have no power to make changes, and to recognize the fear and anxiety that comes up in those types of situations is not a true signal. It's a trauma response. You were being thrown back to a time when you were more powerless. 

Brian  37:01   This whole thing actually reminds me of the Serenity Prayer. Remember that they use it in AAA, it says, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. The funny thing for me is I always struggled with that saying, mostly because I never got the Wisdom part. I mean, I like how was I supposed to know the difference between something I can control or not control? Because really, what it came down to is, I didn't feel as though I had the power to change anything, even if I could release anything at all. Yeah, so I just defaulted to the first one. I just accepted everything,

Stephanie  37:37   right, like we explored in the previous episode, you wrote stories to help you do that. Either. It was a story to make the situation appear out of your control. Yeah, even if you did have some power in it, so that you could justify accepting that treatment. Yeah, write yourself exactly. Or it was a story about the situation, that the situation or the treatment of you wasn't actually that bad.

Brian  38:03   Yeah, I saw the whole world through a lens of powerlessness. Basically, codependency this collection of mental, emotional, linguistic behavioral habits that had helped me to survive my childhood abuse ended up distorting every relationship in my life, most importantly, my relationship to myself. The work that I've done, and the work that I will continue to do is really about developing that wisdom, this, this wisdom to know the difference, really, the wisdom to see things as they really are. It takes a level of self awareness that I just didn't have, or at least I was actively denying myself, because knowledge about certain things just made me feel unsafe. But I've come to find that ignorance is definitely not bliss. Okay.

Stephanie  38:49   And along with that self awareness has come this big picture clarity that you had been avoiding all those years to including the types of relationships that you want to have in your life.

Brian  39:01   Yeah, so in our next episode, we'd like to kind of flip the script a little bit and explore what it can be like for the other people, those who are in relationships with people with codependent behaviors.

Stephanie  39:13   So I will be sharing my experiences about loving a codependent mind. And we hope you can join us for that episode. You can find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching codependent mind. And we encourage you to leave a rating or comment on whatever platform you listen to

 

In this episode, we flip the script and Stephanie discusses her experiences loving, and trying to form a relationship with, someone who engages in codependent behaviors. 

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

00:03:03 Stephanie's past 00:04:35 Jekyll and Hyde 00:08:39 Inauthentic caretaking 00:11:49 Dishonesty 00:14:16 Shame 00:17:35 Learning about codependency

 

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There is a lot of talk about personal boundaries these days - having them, respecting them, enforcing them. But what exactly are personal boundaries? Brian and Stephanie do a deep dive into the concept of boundaries.

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

00:04:53 Back to the boundary basics 00:10:22 Boundary violations 00:14:20 Misuse of boundaries 00:17:29 Boundaries vs wants, needs and expectations 00:25:54 Monogamy 00:29:12 Boundaries and codependency

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Codependency is not an official diagnosis in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) of Mental Disorders. What does that mean and does it matter? And what is a diagnosis anyway? How can it help or hurt the healing process?

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People pleasing sounds good. Why wouldn't we want the people in our life to be pleased? In this episode we explore the connect between people pleasing and codependency and discuss the problems people pleasing can create if it becomes a habitual response to others.

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00:02:06 Evolution of people pleasing 00:05:38 People pleasing as a strategy to avoid abuse 00:08:59 The fawn trauma response 00:12:58 Negative consequences 00:16:08 People pleasing and intimacy 00:21:49 Controlling behavior

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In this episode, we talk about the different kinds of relationships Brian has had in his life - with abusive people, with other 'codependent's, and with 'healthy' people. Stephanie and Brian discuss how they connected even though Brian was still struggling with codependent behaviors, some of the challenges they faced and how they worked through them. 

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

00:01:09 'Healthy' people 00:04:16 Relationships with narcissists/abusive people 00:11:25 Relationships with other codependent or disordered people 00:21:17 Brian and Stephanie's relationship 00:27:56 Intimacy and shame 00:31:12 Trust 00:43:33 Attraction

Esther Perel podcast episode "The Addict" on Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-addict/id1237931798?i=1000393763538

Esther Perel podcast episode "The Addict" on Spotify  - https://open.spotify.com/episode/5zfYUpAknf9zxsUOF6XKOY

 

 

In this episode we take the opportunity to talk more about Brian's 'family of origin' and how it had more of an effect on the development of his codependent behaviors than either of us realized. Brian discusses his father's anger issues, his mother's emotional immaturity, and the impact these had on his childhood and later relationships. He also expresses a newfound understanding and empathy for his parents' limitations and a sense of empowerment in how he can navigate his family relationships moving forward.

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

00:01:47 Reluctance to discuss family issues 00:05:57 Parental anger 00:12:33 Parental depression/codependency 00:15:55 Positive family dynamics 00:18:12 Lasting effects 00:32:24 New understanding

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If shame is not resolved, it can just build up and up until the pressure of trying to suppress it gets to be too much.  Then what do you do with it? One way Brian attempted to relieve the pressure from his pent up shame was 'shame-venting' or over-sharing. We discuss how shame-venting works as well as other, unsuccessful ways that Brian attempted to manage his unresolved shame. 

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The Serenity Prayer is often said at 12-step meetings like Alcoholic Anonymous and even Codependent Anonymous. But it can challenging to enact, especially if you were caught in codependency's web as Brian was. Now that he has recognized and recovered from a lot of his codependent habits, he has a new understanding of and appreciation for it. 

Serenity Prayer - God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

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In this episode, we answer listener questions. 

00:00:52 Question 1 00:14:04 Question 2 00:22:43 Question 3

1. Was there ever a time you felt like the investment in helping Brian break through his trauma was too much for you or not healthy for you?

2. How do you take the power back from the other side of a trigger? How do you stand against those negative feelings?

3. What kind of resource did you use/would you recommend?

Mentioned:

Esther Perel's podcast "Where Should We Begin"

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk

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In this episode, Stephanie and Brian discuss the concept of trauma bonding within codependent relationships, particularly focusing on two of Brian's past romantic relationships characterized by abuse and narcissistic behavior. They highlight the two key ingredients necessary for trauma bonding: a power imbalance and intermittent abuse.

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

Brian describes his first partner, referred to as "R," as a successful narcissist who engaged in narcissistic abuse and gaslighting. The abuse focused on undermining Brian's self-esteem and identity, making him feel inadequate and ashamed. Despite the abuse, Brian felt emotionally tied to R, partly due to the intermittent nature of the abuse and the occasional displays of love and care.

Stephanie mentions that Brian had financial, social, and intellectual resources, which adds complexity to the question of why he stayed in these relationships. Brian explains that his low self-esteem and lack of agency, developed from early traumatic experiences, led him to believe that he needed to change and fix himself to make the relationships work.

In one instance, a therapist suggested a separation period during Brian's first relationship to find himself outside of the abusive dynamic. However, Brian couldn't detach herself from the trauma bond and continued trying to change herself to please his partner.

After his first abusive relationship ended, Brian quickly entered into another one that lasted for four years. In this new relationship, He encountered another abusive narcissist, "J", although this person was less socially and emotionally successful, making their flaws more evident to others. There was an initial love bombing phase in both relationships, where Brian received excessive attention, flattery, and compliments. Despite feeling disoriented and recognizing some red flags, Brian struggled to establish boundaries due to his codependency and low self-esteem.  J's abuse was somewhat different than R's. It involved explosive coercive language and anger, and featured manipulation and seeking sympathy. Brian describes going into a "turtle shell" during abusive episodes to cope.

We discuss how trauma bonding can distort one's sense of self and agency, making it challenging to leave abusive relationships or even recognize the abuse. Brian's experiences highlight the importance of understanding trauma bonds and their profound impact on codependent individuals.

00:00:41 Definition of trauma bonding 00:01:31 Key ingredients of a trauma bond 00:04:43 Brian’s trauma bond with R 00:05:44 Gaslighting explained 00:07:42 Brian’s trauma bond with J 00:08:50 Love bombing explained 00:13:33 How the trauma bond worked 00:22:30 The internal battle 00:25:51 Shame 00:35:18 Trauma bond vs intimacy

 

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One-sided caretaking is a hallmark of a codependent relationship. But caretaking is a natural human instinct. How do you know if the caretaking you are doing is healthy and appropriate or if it is a codependent habit?

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

00:01:13 Healthy Versions of Caretaking 00:07:00 Caretaking Gone Wrong 00:09:50 Two-sided Caretaking vs One-sided Caretaking 00:12:54 Caretaking in Romantic Relationships 00:18:36 The Caretaking Instinct 00:28:30 Resentment

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In this episode we revisit the idea and definition of codependency that we laid out in the very first episode. In doing this podcast, talking with each other and interacting with listeners, we have learned even more about what makes up this web of codependency and have come to understand it as a spectrum of habitual behaviors that can be mild or severe. Most importantly, we have learned that these habits, if recognized and addressed, can be broken. 

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

00:01:26 Initial understanding of Codependency 00:03:34 Definition of codependency from Episode 1 00:04:20 Our new working definition of codependency 00:08:03 Codependency in relationships 00:09:38 Identifying codependency 00:15:22 Codependency in 'healthy' relationships 00:19:45 Codependency as trauma response 00:23:56 Healing codependency

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Along with shame and fear, anger and resentment are two challenging emotions for people with codependent habits to deal with. That was certainly the case for Brian. In this episode we explore the differences between anger and resentment, where they come from, how Brian dealt with them in the past and what his approach is now. 

In this episode: 00:01:39 Anger as a 'bad' emotion' 00:02:30 Aristotle on emotion 00:04:24 Emotions as information 00:07:32 Buddha's 'second arrow' 00:08:24 Origins of problems with anger 00:11:52 Role of anger 00:13:05 Codependents, narcissists and anger 00:17:50 Anger and resentment 00:23:24 Managing resentment

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In "The Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous, 12 steps are suggested as a program of recovery. Those 12 steps have been adopted, with minimal changes, by Co-dependents Anonymous. Brian did not find the CoDA or the AA steps helpful in his efforts to understand and change his codependent behaviors, but the act of writing out his own 12 steps was a helpful exercise.

In this episode we discuss 12 step programs and outline the steps (listed below) that Brian felt he went through in kicking the codependent habits. These are offered not as a 'program of recovery' but as inspiration for others to design and develop their own 12 step program. 

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

00:01:22 The disease model 00:04:10 AA 00:08:11 CODA steps 00:14:00 Brian's steps 1-5

1. I admitted that I was powerful, that my life could be manageable.
2. I came to believe that human interpersonal relationships are a core feature of an enriching life experience, and that my habitual codependent behaviors were holding me back from having that experience.
3. I made a decision to listen to what my emotions are telling me and understand the ways in which I had been avoiding or burying those emotions.
4. I made a searching and fearless inventory of all the relationships in my life, past and present, what effect those people’s behaviors have had on me, and the effects my behaviors have had on those people.
5. I admitted to another human being that I value and trust the exact nature of those behaviors and relationships, to the best of my ability.
6. I was entirely ready to face the shame and fear that I had been burying or avoiding, asking for help from others, when necessary.
7. I searched for the root causes of all my maladaptive behavior patterns and worked on strategies for healing from the effects of those causes.
8. I made a list of all my wants, needs, desires, values and expectations for my life and for my relationships.
9. Using that list, I made an honest attempt to look at the big picture of my life to see which of my actions and which of my relationships were or weren’t serving my wellbeing.
10. I continue to cultivate my ability to recognize what power I have and how I can apply that power to make changes I need to make or accept things I can’t change.
11. I continue to watch how I use my language, and for the motivations behind my initial reactions to situations or other people’s behaviors, and when they resemble what I understand as codependency, promptly correct myself.
12. Having gained the self-awareness and wisdom that has come from taking these steps, I commit to making all of these new behaviors my habitual behaviors.

 

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This episode is a continuation of the previous episode, S3 - #12 Beyond Codependency - 12 Steps. We discuss steps six through 12. Below are all 12 steps, plus reference to previous episodes that expand on the ideas and actions described by each individual step. 

1. I admitted that I was powerful, that my life could be manageable.

• S1 - #5 Codependency and Lack of Agency
• S3 - #10 Beyond Codependency - Codependency Revisited

2. I came to believe that human interpersonal relationships are a core feature of an enriching life experience, and that my habitual codependent behaviors were holding me back from having that experience.

• S1 - #4 Codependency and Narcissism
• S3 - #4 Beyond Codependency - Relationships
• S3 - #3 Beyond Codependency - People Pleasing
• S3 - #9 Beyond Codependency - Caretaking

3. I made a decision to listen to what my emotions are telling me and understand the ways in which I had been avoiding or burying those emotions.

• S1 - #7 Codependency and Emotional Immaturity

4. I made a searching and fearless inventory of all the relationships in my life, past and present, what effect those people’s behaviors have had on me, and the effects my behaviors have had on those people.

• S1 - #3 Codependency and Trauma Bonding
• S2 - #5 Healing Codependency - Loving a Codependent Mind

5. I admitted to another human being that I value and trust the exact nature of those behaviors and relationships, to the best of my ability.

• S2 - #1 Healing Codependency - Getting Started

6. I was entirely ready to face the shame and fear that I had been burying or avoiding, asking for help from others, when necessary.

• S1 - #6 Codependency and Shame
• S2  - #2 Healing Codependency - Emotional Development

7. I searched for the root causes of all my maladaptive behavior patterns and worked on strategies for healing from the effects of those causes.

• S1 - #1 Codependency - Origins
• S1 - #2 Codependency and Trauma
• S3 - #2 Beyond Codependency - Diagnosis
• The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma - by Bessel van der Kolk M.D.

8. I made a list of all my wants, needs, desires, values and expectations for my life and for my relationships.

• S2 - #1 Healing Codependency - Getting Started

9. Using that list, I made an honest attempt to look at the big picture of my life to see which of my actions and which of my relationships were or weren’t serving my wellbeing.

• S2 - #3 Healing Codependency - Re-Writing Stories
• S3 - #5 Beyond Codependency - Family of Origin

10. I continue to cultivate my ability to recognize what power I have and how I can apply that power to make changes I need to make or accept things I can’t change.

• S3 - #7 Beyond Codependency - The Serenity Prayer

11. I continue to watch how I use my language, and for the motivations behind my initial reactions to situations or other people’s behaviors, and when they resemble what I understand as codependency, promptly correct myself.

• S2 - #4 Healing from Codependency - Breaking the Powerlessness Habit

12. Having gained the self-awareness and wisdom that has come from taking these steps, I commit to making all of these new behaviors my habitual behaviors.

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Rooting out codependency involves going back to the source, to where the codependent habits and behaviors first formed. This is a clip from Season 3, episode 5 where Brian discusses the effect his dad's anger had on him as a child. 

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In this season, we investigate core concepts about relationships and the ways in which codependent behaviors can make it difficult to form and sustain loving, intimate relationships. Our newest book, Me, You & Us: Moving Beyond Relational Trauma and Disorder to Build a Stable, Lasting Relationship draws from this Season and from Season 7.  It is available now on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FC6KCKNT

 

In this episode, we start with a discussion of intimacy itself - what are the different forms of intimacy? what are some ways intimacy is challenging, especially with people struggling with codependency? what kinds of intimacy difficulties have we dealt with as a couple and how are we addressing them? 

In this episode: 00:02:57 Definition of intimacy 00:04:50 Emotional intimacy 00:06:01 Intimacy and codependency 00:09:49 Brian and Stephanie meet 00:11:07 Loneliness 00:13:32 Building emotional intimacy 00:16:17 Trust 00:23:30 Vulnerability 00:24:27 Curiosity

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Unlike Codependency, Dependency Personality Disorder is listed in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual as a recognized personality disorder. Both Dependency and Codependency, however, share many maladaptive behaviors and can be rooted in negative childhood experience. In this episode, we discuss the many negative ways dependency, including narcissistic dependency, can show up in relationships and explore a positive version of dependency - Interdependency.  

00:01:23 Emotional regulation/dysregulation 00:05:33 Dependency Personality Disorder 00:08:55 Codependency and Narcissism 00:18:41 Interdependence 00:26:04 Being hurt vs. hurtful behavior

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Learning how to regulate your emotions is a critical to be able to go on to develop healthy, stable relationships. Unfortunately, that learning is interrupted and/or distorted for many people; it was for Brian. We discuss how what emotional regulation (or, more accurately, emotional dysregulation) looked like in Brian's family and how that fed in to the codependent relationships he formed throughout his life. We also discuss what self regulation and co-regulation looks like in our relationship.

00:01:36 Social learning 00:05:05 Early trauma 00:11:19 Emotional dysregulation vs emotional regulation strategies 00:17:20 Emotional dysregulation in relationships 00:24:34 Co-regulation

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The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

Trust has been a major issue in our relationship. Brian's codependent habits, which included people pleasing and reflexive lying, made it difficult to for him to trust himself and consequently, difficult for Stephanie to place her trust in him and in the relationship. In this episode we explore the different dimensions of trust and the ways in which it was violated and then repaired in our relationship.

00:02:43 Honesty and trust 00:10:39 Reliability/competence and trust 00:15:58 Self-knowledge and trust 00:18:18 Re-establishing trust

 

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Narcissists are an especially dangerous and toxic pairing for people with codependent behaviors, due to the way each person’s maladaptive behaviors work together. In this episode we discuss the general characteristics of narcissism and then detail Brian's two, back-to-back, romantic relationships with abusive narcissists. 

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

In this episode:

00:01:25 Common characteristics of narcissist

00:02:18 The codependency - narcissism connection

00:03:59 Narcissistic abuse

00:05:21 The beginning of relationships/lovebombing

00:10:20 Financial control

00:12:09 The narcissist’s script

00:12:47 A portrait of R

00:15:19 Gaslighting example

00:21:16 A portrait of J

00:31:10 A tale of two narcissists

 

Thank you for liking or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find the podcast.  Find us on Instagram @codependentmind  Email: codependentmind@gmail.com

Website: https://www.codependentmind.com/

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

This episode we celebrate one year of doing the podcast! It has been a tremendous learning experience for both of us, we have each learned a lot about ourselves and it has strengthened and deepened our connection to each other. We have also learned so much from the listeners who have contacted us with questions and insights. We list our major takeaways from this year which include the role of Brian's family in forming his codependent habits, how powerlessness sits at the root of his trauma, and the terrible legacy of shame. 

00:02:44 The experience of doing the podcast 00:10:40 The role of Brian's family 00:16:18 Learning about Oneself 00:18:47 The pleasure of intimacy 00:20:24 Powerlessness 00:25:36 Shame

If you are interested in bonus material for this episode and for other episodes (for instance show notes or more in depth background stories) and would like to be a part of the Codependent Mind Discourse community, become a patron of the podcast. 

Thank you for following or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find the podcast. 

Instagram: @codependentmind 

Email: codependentmind@gmail.com

Vulnerability, a key ingredient for emotionally intimate relationships, can be difficult for people struggling with codependency. Brian developed codependent behaviors in order to try to protect himself from emotional harm, so deliberately being vulnerable with another person felt very scary and almost unnatural. In this episode we discuss the role of vulnerability in intimacy and the challenges we have faced in our relationship creating safe spaces for each other.

The Still Face Experiment on YouTube.

00:00:23 Definition 00:01:43 Codependency and vulnerability 00:13:15 Vulnerability in relationships 00:20:07 Our relationship

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

Thank you for following or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find the podcast. 

Instagram and Facebook: @codependentmind 

Email: codependentmind@gmail.com

 

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

One subject that we have not discussed with much depth is sex, even though it is an important component of human relationships and it played a central role in Brian's struggle with shame and fear of intimacy. In this episode, we put sex front and center, talk through the reasons we haven't done so up until now and start to explore the role sex played in Brian's codependency. 

In this episode:

00:00:52 Why we haven’t discussed sex

00:06:57 Why we are talking about it now

00:10:53 Sexual shame venting

00:16:25 Origins of Brian’s sexual shame

00:24:12 Sex as performance

 

Thank you for following or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find the podcast. 

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Email: codependentmind@gmail.com

In this episode, we continue the discussion about the way that the trauma Brian experienced and the codependent behaviors that developed in response to it affected his sexual relationships and his relationship to sex. We broke this episode in to two parts (part 2 and part 3). This episode covers the sexual trauma Brian experienced in his relationship with R. 

In this episode:

00:00:37 Sexual Trauma 00:02:35 Shame and Sexual Trauma 00:07:09 Meeting R 00:10:24 Sexual Love Bombing 00:13:29 Sex and the Trauma Bond 00:16:15 Re-writing Stories 00:16:49 First Sexual Experience with R 00:18:56 Sex as Distraction 00:20:02 Sexual abuse 00:26:02 Narcissistic entitlement

 

Episodes referenced:

S1 - #2 Codependency and Trauma

S1 - #3 Codependency and Trauma Bonding 

S1 - #4 Narcissism

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

 

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

In this episode, we continue the discussion about the way that trauma Brian experienced and the codependent behaviors that developed in response to it affected his sexual relationships and his relationship to sex. We broke this episode in to two parts (part 2 and part 3). This is part 3 which covers the sexual trauma Brian experienced in his relationship with J and then the end of that relationship.

00:02:01 Lovebombing 00:05:49 Sexual relationship 00:11:34 Cheating 00:15:49 Polyamory 00:31:46 Shame overload

Episodes referenced:

S1 - #4 Narcissism

S4 - #2 Dependency, Codependency and Interdependency

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

In this episode, the final one in our 'mini-series' about sex and codependency, we discuss Brian's past experiences of sexual trauma and how they had led to codependent behaviors in his relationships.

We highlight three key elements that contributed to his current healing sexual relationship:

Safety: Unlike his previous relationships, he felt safe with Stephanie right from the beginning. This safety allowed him to open up and be vulnerable in the sexual aspect of our relationship.

Desire: In our relationship, he has felt genuinely desired by Stephanie, and also desired her in return. This mutual desire was absent in his past relationships, which were often transactional in nature.

Pleasure: Our sexual relationship has been a source of pleasure for us both physically and emotionally. This contrasts with his past experiences, which were often filled with shame, fear, and performance anxiety.

We also discuss the importance of distinguishing between needs, wants, and desires and how this understanding helped Brian reconnect with his emotions and authentic desires. Additionally, we talk about the significance of being able to discuss these topics openly and how it has contributed to healing from sexual trauma and shame.

00:01:11 When we met

00:04:07 Sex as performance

00:06:45 Our sexual connection

00:07:50 What was necessary for healing the sexual trauma?

00:08:10 Safety

00:12:04 Being desired

00:16:15 Desire

00:23:45 Trauma and desire

00:26:13 Reconnecting with desire

 

Thank you for following or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find the podcast. 

Instagram and Facebook: @codependentmind 

Email: codependentmind@gmail.com

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

As a preview of Season 5, when we will be introducing more voices into the conversation, we have a guest on this episode. Jason reflects on his struggles with codependent behaviors and the origins of these behaviors in their family of origin. He discusses experiencing physical and emotional abuse from their father at a young age and feeling needy and demanding as a child. His mother's actions and comments also contributed to his negative self-talk and body image issues.

He goes on to share how he turned to overeating as a form of self-medication and how his mother's reactions to his weight gain exacerbated his feelings of inadequacy. He describes a pattern of settling in romantic relationships and feeling a need to please others.

He also discusses how he is working on setting boundaries and overcoming people-pleasing tendencies. He is working on resolving the shame and fear that has always been present in his romantic relationships and expresses hope for the future. 

00:02:00 Jason's understanding of codependency 00:02:57 Origins of his codependent behaviors 00:06:36 Body shame 00:15:11 Early romantic relationships 00:22:50 Current relationship status 00:25:26 Struggle with people-pleasing 00:30:50 Healing

Thank you for following or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find the podcast. 

Instagram and Facebook: @codependentmind 

Email: codependentmind@gmail.com

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

In this episode we discuss the intersection of gender with codependency. We explore how gender roles and expectations can be sources of trauma, leading individuals to internalize shame and feel pressure to conform. Gendered expectations can also reinforce codependent behaviors, as certain traits align with cultural norms associated with femininity, such as kindness and caretaking.

Additionally, we discuss on how gender can mask abusive dynamics, as it did in Brian's relationships, making it difficult for to recognize the abuse. Gender stereotypes can create a facade that conceals unhealthy relationships.

Ultimately, healing from codependency may involve moving beyond societal gender expectations to discover one's true self. 

00:00:41 Definition 00:04:48 Gender is a source of trauma 00:09:51 Stephanie's experience 00:10:15 Brian’s experience 00:17:26 Gender as a weapon 00:20:11 Codependent behaviors and gender expectations

 

The paperback and eBook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

In this episode, we expand on the discussion of interdependence, that we started in episode 2 or Season 4 ”Dependency, Codependency and Interdependence”. We use the lens of ”You, Me, Us” to explore what we owe ourselves in relationships, what we owe the other person and what we owe the relationship itself. In contrast to relationships characterized by enmeshment, those governed by a healthy interdependence or mutual dependence can provide a sense of security, connectedness and care to both parties.

Article mentioned: Understanding cooperation through fitness interdependence. (9.7.2018)- Aktipis et. al.

00:01:24 Interdependence vs enmeshment 00:06:14 Healthy relationships 00:09:38 Self-knowledge 00:13:19 Knowing you 00:14:24 Us 00:19:02 3-legged stool 00:22:26 Boundaries 00:24:44 Relationship work

Thank you for following, liking or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find it.

In this episode, we have a candid and open conversation Carly about her personal journey of overcoming codependency, people-pleasing, and addiction. She shares with us her childhood experiences growing up in a chaotic household with drug addiction and mental illness including turning to drugs and sex at a young age as a way to find acceptance, love and escape from emotional turmoil.  

We also touch on her behavior in romantic relationships, including her tendency to leave partners after achieving their love and how she alternated between codependent and narcissistic behaviors. She describes the emotional exhaustion that came with trying to please others and the challenging process of breaking free from these patterns.

The conversation then turns to the toward's Carly recovery journey which included overcoming addiction and learning to love herself. She discusses how joining a church and a supportive community played a significant role in her healing process.

In terms of forming healthy relationships, Carly emphasizes the significance of her sobriety, authenticity, and self-love in building a strong and healthy relationship with her wife. Her partner encouraged her to be her true self, which was a pivotal moment in her journey towards self-acceptance.

Additionally, Carly reflects on her experience with 12-step programs like Narcotics Anonymous, which provided structure and support when she needed it most. However, she eventually outgrew these programs, realizing that they didn't have to define her identity forever, much like recovering from an injury doesn't require a crutch once healing is achieved.

00:02:08 Childhood trauma 00:07:00 Addictive behavior 00:12:40 Romantic relationships 00:20:00 Masking 00:24:02 Healing journey 00:41:13 12 step programs 00:48:00 Forgiveness

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

Thank you for following or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find the podcast. 

Instagram: @codependentmind 

 

What is involved in the concept of 'personal agency'? How is agency or its lack connected to codependent behaviors? We explore Brian's experience with those questions in mind.

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

In this episode: 00:02:44 Personal agency defined 00:04:51 How it develops/gets interrupted 00:07:41 Lack of agency and vulnerability to abuse 00:11:45 Codependent behaviors as an expression of powerlessness 00:14:13 Codependency and chronic victimhood 00:15:45 Moral agency and shame 00:19:48 Resentment

 

Thank you for liking or reviewing this podcast. It helps other people find the podcast. 

Find us on Instagram @codependentmind 

Email: codependentmind@gmail.com

Website: https://www.codependentmind.com/

In this episode, we hear from Brinn about her journey of self-discovery, including her exploration of codependency patterns, her family's dynamics, and her own relationships

Brinn talks about her family roles, her father's history as an adult child of an alcoholic, her sister's addiction struggles, and the impact these had on her. She shares her experience of repeatedly falling into similar relationship patterns and seeking understanding through learning about addiction, recovery, and attachment styles.

Brinn also discusses her work with affected family members, mainly parents and partners dealing with addiction, and emphasizes the significance of community in the healing process.

Brinn is now a Family Recovery & Relationship Coach. You can read more about her work here: https://www.brinnflagg.com/

00:01:55 Origins 00:06:28 Role in the family system 00:11:40 Public image 00:16:22 Relationship patterns 00:19:50 Codependents Anonymous 00:26:15 Role of community in healing 00:39:00 Healthy relationships

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

If you are interested in sharing your story with us, let us know at codependentmind@gmail.com

Thank you for liking/reviewing/following our podcast. It helps other people find it. 

In this episode, we talk with Taylor about the roots of the codependent behaviors, their challenges in breaking free from those behaviors and finding a sense of identity, the lessons they have garnered and the insight they have achieved. Taylor shares their experiences with a chaotic upbringing, influenced by their mother's alcoholism, and discusses the challenges faced during childhood, such as dissociation and compartmentalization. The wide-ranging conversation touches on a number of subjects critical to understanding and coping with codependency including: 

• attachment styles
• boundaries
• reconnecting with your emotions
• Al-Anon
• identity work
• journaling and meditation

Mentioned in this episode: The Body Keeps the Score The Crappy Childhood Fairy Codependency Voices: Carly 

 

00:01:10 Mother's alcoholism 00:03:08 Emotional dissociation 00:06:34 Fawn response and codependency 00:12:55 Dismissiveness  00:20:01 Attachment 00:24:05 People pleasing 00:26:45 Boundaries 00:30:02 Re-connecting with your emotions 00:37:25 Al-Anon 00:41:02 Identity work

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

If you are interested in sharing your story with us, let us know at codependentmind@gmail.com

Thank you for liking/reviewing/following our podcast. It helps other people find it. 

In this episode we ‘hear’ from narcissists as Brian shares his hardwon insight into narcissistic behaviors coming from decades of friendships and relationships with narcissistic people. Building on conversations from previous episodes, we discuss the ways in which codependent behaviors and narcissistic behaviors overlap before reviewing the ways in which they form a toxic complementarity. And if you are still having difficulty spotting a narcissist, Brian offers examples from his past that illustrate the  grandiosity, lack of accountability and entitlement that forms the backbone of narcissism. 

Mentioned in this episode: 

Codependency and Relationships: Dependency, Codependency and Interdependence

00:02:27 Narcissism vs narcissistic behaviors 00:05:49 Commonalities between narcissism and codependency 00:10:13 Differences between narcissism and codependency 00:13:48 Lovebombing 00:17:46 Spotting narcissistic behavior in relationships

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

If you are interested in sharing your story with us, let us know at codependentmind@gmail.com

Thank you for liking/reviewing/following our podcast. It helps other people find it.

In this episode, we talk with Stephanie's friend Bea, who has struggled with codependent behaviors her whole life. Her last relationship ended when she realized that it was not a relationship in which she felt seen or safe - her role in the relationship was to be the person her partner needed and wanted her to be and left no room for her authentic self. Since leaving that relationship, she has been in place of isolation. She very much wants to leave that state but is concerned about getting in to a relationship, whether a friendship or romance, where she is simply re-enacting the codependent dynamics that have governed her past relationship.

Stephanie and Bea have started a podcast to further explore Bea's journey in to and out of isolation. Search for "Not I - Not Isolated Anymore".

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-i Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/not-i-not-isolated-anymore/id1723114201

00:00:55 Isolation 00:03:19 Fear of new relationships 00:08:52 Lived experience of codependency 00:11:57 Self-knowledge, seeing yourself 00:13:27 Relationship needs 00:19:13 Brian's attempt to retreat into isolation 00:24:28 Shame 00:27:16 Are relationships even worth it?

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

If you are interested in sharing your story with us, let us know at codependentmind@gmail.com

Thank you for liking/reviewing/following our podcast. It helps other people find it. 

Chris shares with us his story of codependency recovery. From a lonely, difficult childhood, through two marriages to disordered partners, through isolation, depression and despair, Chris found his way out of codependency and in to a loving, transformational relationship. His story, like as our other guests, offers both inspiration and hope. 

Mentioned in this episode: 

Podcast: Not I - Not Isolated Anymore: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-i

Book: The Body Keeps the Score: Brian, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Truma

Podcast: Esther Perel's Where Should We Begin?

00:03:03 Childhood 00:09:14 Romantic relationships 00:13:50 Isolation and depression 00:19:30 Second marriage - addiction and codependency 00:27:29 The love story 00:30:24 Codependent habits 00:36:23 Coming out of the codependency closet 00:42:19 CODA 00:49:00 Family relationships

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

Thank you for liking/reviewing/following our podcast. It helps other people find it. 

Contact us at codependentmind@gmail.com

 

 

 

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

In this episode, Brian and Stephanie talk with Rebecca about the emotional complexities of self-discovery and growth within the context of codependency. We discuss Rebecca's relationships,  her struggle with being vulnerability, and the challenge of being authentic with others.

00:01:24 Little 't' and capital 'T' trauma 00:08:58 Lack of safety 00:11:10 Choosing between relationships 00:18:03 Setting boundaries 00:25:00 Asserting the self in a relationship 00:35:45 Parental models

Thank you for liking/reviewing/following our podcast. It helps other people find it. 

Find us at: https://www.codependentmind.com/

Learn more about Nicole's coaching practice, Meaning in Medicine, here: https://www.meaninginmed.com/about

The Enneagram Test -  free test. Be sure to select the "Classical Test."  Read about your results through the Enneagram Institute here.  

In this episode we explore the phenomenon of codependency within professional environments, particularly the healthcare field, with our special guest, Dr. Nicole Piemonte. A PhD holder in Medical Humanities, Dr. Piemonte has dedicated her career to the human facets of medical practice.

In this discussion, we delve into Dr. Piemonte's career origins and personal journey with codependency. She describes a prevalent pattern of trauma-induced codependency within the health sector, typically characterized by 'rescuing' and 'fixing' patients—a behavior that draws parallels with institutional people-pleasing and poses significant hindrance to effective care.

Further in the conversation, we examine how codependency—stemming from a deep-rooted need to be needed—leads caregivers to self-neglect due to their inherent desire to help others. Surprisingly, narcissism and codependency share this common root of trauma, offering a new perspective on the familiar trope of the narcissist physician.

Nicole sheds light on the falseness of the emotion-free detachment often seen in medicine. Arguing that compassion fatigue emerges from not feeling anything, rather than ‘feeling too much’, she emphasizes the role of emotional reconnection in aiding clinicians to regain self-contentment and fulfillment.

Nicole discusses how through supportive coaching and introspection, it's possible to replace these maladaptive coping mechanisms with healthier ones. 

 

00:00:07 Exploring Codependency in Professional Spaces

00:10:26 The tendency to fix and rescue in medicine

00:14:03 Recognizing codependency in personal and work relationships

00:20:51 Caretaking and Codependency

00:23:11 Coaching and Reconnecting to Meaning and Purpose in Medicine

00:31:12 Reconnecting with Emotions and the Healing Path

00:33:11 Compartmentalization as a Life Strategy and its Consequences

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

Thank you for liking, following and reviewing this podcast. It helps others find it.

website: https://www.codependentmind.com/

 

We have described codependency as an interpersonal relationship dynamic, but in doing so, we may have inadvertently left out a whole category of relationships in which codependency can manifest - relationships with our pets. In this episode, we discuss the pets that Brian has had (dogs and cats) and the ways in which his codependent behavior habits showed up in those relationships. We also reflect on possible connections between narcissism and pet ownership. 

00:00:45 Dogs and Cats

00:03:53 Codependent Behaviors with Pets

00:14:02 Boundary setting

00:16:18 Narcissists and Pets

00:22:52 Genuine caretaking vs codependent caretaking

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

Do you have a pet story to tell? Let us know on instagram or Facebook. @codpendendentmind

Thank you for liking, reviewing and following our podcast. It helps other people find us. 

Money talks, as they say, and in this episode we hear about the financial dimensions of Brian's codependency. For most of his life, money was not a tool for Brian to express his values and achieve his life goals; instead, it was fuel for his codependent habits - people pleasing, caretaking, lack of boundaries. His financial codependency, not surprisingly, did not lead to financial health; it lead to debt, stress and shame. Recovering from codependency also involved a recovery from financial codependency and we explore what it took for Brian to form a new relationship to money, one that has taken him to solvency and beyond. 

00:01:18 Codependency and Money

00:03:36 Financial Caretaking

00:05:38 Self-Centeredness in Financial Codependency

00:06:09 Throwing Money at Problems

00:10:09 Unveiling Financial Shame

00:10:37 Narcissistic Entitlement and Money

00:11:06 Facing Financial Resentment

00:12:48 Post-Divorce Financial Codependency

00:15:43 Using Money to Avoid Abuse

00:16:24 Financial Caretaking as a Coping Mechanism

00:17:12 Rationalizing Financial Decisions

00:18:52 Fear and Shame in Financial Choices

00:21:54 Overcoming Financial Codependency

00:25:17 Processing Financial Shame

00:30:22 Aligning Money with Life Goals

00:32:43 Conclusion and Book Announcement

The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V

 

Thank you for liking, reviewing and following our podcast. It helps other people find us. 

This episode, Brian reads Chapter One from the book, The Making and the Re-Making of a Codependent Mind.

The full audiobook can be purchased on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Making-Re-Making-Codependent-Mind-Codependency/dp/B0D2LYSJC3/) and Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/4fzyWWfGTv34T5Hev7DsOP) and other platforms. 

Buy now in paperback or eBook form: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYH7TMZ1/

Chapter One frames codependency as learned, strategic, adaptive response to feelings of powerlessness, to emotional pain. It also covers the dynamics within Brian's family that gave rise to the codependent behaviors that would eventually cripple him emotionally and relationally for most of his life. 

Based on the acclaimed podcast of the same name, follow Brian's transformative journey from codependency and despair to joyful, fulfilling and sustaining relationships. Gain guidance into examining your own life and crafting a personalized pathway to heal from codependency and trauma.

In Part 1 of his journey, Brian explores:

• The family dynamics in his childhood that set the stage for codependent habits.
• The long term effects of trauma, including its complex and chronic manifestations.
• Threat responses (particularly freeze and fawn) and the connection to the behaviors that make up codependency.
• The role of shame and fear in deepening his codependent habits.
• How his codependent behaviors fostered isolation and perpetuated dysfunctional relationship dynamics.
• The toxic interplay between narcissism and codependency, and the trauma bonds that ensnared him in relationships with abusive narcissists.

In Part 2, the re-making of a codependent mind, Brian describes:

• What is on the other side of codependency? Is it worth it?
• Healing from his emotional wounds by connecting with other people, repairing his emotional system and re-writing the stories of his life.
• How he finally broke the codependent habits that prevented him from having the emotionally intimate relationships that he always craved.
• Acquiring a new approach to romantic relationships.

 

Shame evolved to give us information about the world. But trauma induced shame can be overwhelming and crippling, even life-threatening. Understanding the role shame played in his life and fueled his codependent behaviors, was key to Brian's healing process. 

Get even more guidance in healing from codependency. The paperback, audiobook and eBook is now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V 

In this episode:

00:01:32 Shame vs Guilt and Embarrassment

00:05:32 Why does shame exist?

00:10:07 How narcissists use shame

00:12:20 Freezing and avoiding

00:14:57 Self-destructive behaviors

00:15:30 Shame venting

00:17:28 Shame rage/resentment

00:19:29 Telling stories to avoid shame

00:21:12 Compartmentalization

00:24:11 Shame and abuse

 

Find us on Instagram @codependentmind to ask questions or share your story.

Brian and Stephanie discuss what they learned in writing the book including the role of Brian's mother, the similarities between narcissism and codependency, the power of re-writing stories and the intrangency of the codependent habits. 

The full audiobook can be purchased on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Making-Re-Making-Codependent-Mind-Codependency/dp/B0D2LYSJC3/) and Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/4fzyWWfGTv34T5Hev7DsOP) and other platforms. 

Get your Paperback or eBook copy on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYH7TMZ1

Thank you for listening, reading and reviewing!

In Season 7, we return to the theme of Season 4 with episodes that focus on relationships. What are some of the tools, concepts and practices that we feel keep our connection strong and loving? Our newest book, Me, You & Us: Moving Beyond Relational Trauma and Disorder to Build a Stable, Lasting Relationship draws from this Season and from Season 4.  It is available now on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FC6KCKNT

In this episode, we discuss a tool that is not generally applied to relationships - the Lean Startup Methodology (https://theleanstartup.com/principles). People with codependent habits often get in to relationships very quickly and then spend an enormous amount of time and energy 'making the relationship work.' Applying Lean Startup encourages us to redirect that energy into answering the question - 'should this relationship exist?' We discuss how to start your relationships in a Lean way and how we use the methodology in our lives.

Get your Paperback or eBook copy on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYH7TMZ1

The full audiobook can be purchased on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Making-Re-Making-Codependent-Mind-Codependency/dp/B0D2LYSJC3/) and Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/4fzyWWfGTv34T5Hev7DsOP) and other platforms. 

00:04:03 The Lean Startup Methodology 00:08:41 Minimum Viable Products 00:11:49 Starting a relationship Lean 00:15:44 Dating Lean 00:19:55 Using Lean Startup to make life decisions

Thank you for listening!

 

Experiencing relational trauma and subsequent relationship disorders, whether codependency, anxious attachment, avoidant attachment, BPD can make empathy challenging. Not that the feelings aren't there, but often the empathetic system is so wounded that it is difficult to stay in a place of empathetic responsiveness. But empathy is a critical tool in forming and maintaining intimate relationships. In this episode we discuss the role of empathy in our relationship, Brian's experience with empathetic woundedness and how he overcame them. 

00:00:37 What are we calling 'empathy' 00:01:46 The empathetic system 00:05:12 Empathy and interpersonal disorders 00:09:33 Empathetic system malfunctions 00:17:43 Empathy as a relationship tool 00:21:50 Empathetic responsiveness

Get your Paperback or eBook copy on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYH7TMZ1

The full audiobook can be purchased on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Making-Re-Making-Codependent-Mind-Codependency/dp/B0D2LYSJC3/) and Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/4fzyWWfGTv34T5Hev7DsOP) and other platforms. 

Have you've been told or have you told yourself that 'relationships take work' as a reason to accept behaviours or a relationship that is not serving your needs? This season is about relationship tools, but we shouldn't use these tools to make a relationship work that isn't serving us. So what does 'work' mean in the to the context of a loving, healthy relationship? Brian and Stephanie discuss in the to the context of their relationship. 

In this episode:

00:01:56 Relationship Work in Childhood 00:06:53 Conscious Attachment - Autonomy and Mutuality 00:13:14 Mutuality 00:17:25 Categories of Relationship Work

Get your Paperback or eBook copy on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYH7TMZ1

The full audiobook can be purchased on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Making-Re-Making-Codependent-Mind-Codependency/dp/B0D2LYSJC3/) and Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/4fzyWWfGTv34T5Hev7DsOP) and other platforms. 

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Email: codependentmind@gmail.com