This Could Be Interesting – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Iain McGilchrist is one of the most important intellectuals in the world right now (he's also my favorite thinker and philosopher and a personal hero). Part of the impact of his work is due to the thorough and rigorous research supporting his theories (more than 5,000 papers and essays and deep understanding of countless authors and artists and their work from both ancient contexts as well as the modern conversation about these things). The other, perhaps even more impactful reason for his importance is his engagement with what I think is one of the more dire crisis' in the developed world, which is that of "Meaning". Iain's work engages the scientific literature deeply which allows him to make some of the most inspiring and intellectually respectable claims about religious perspective and the "sense of the sacred" of any modern academic thinker. He has made strides and leaps towards the re-marriage of philosophy and science, a divorce that has played a huge part in the fracturing of western culture and the modern person's ability to grapple with a sense of "meaning" in life. Iain is both an intellectual maverick and an extremely personable and friendly person. Getting to talk with him for an hour was an absolute blessing and I'm so incredibly thankful to have had the chance to interact with him and have a conversation about some of the things I deeply feel are most worth talking about at this moment in time.

Admittedly getting to talk to Iain was a bit of a geek out moment for me, so I apologize if my excitement shows. Speaking with him felt a bit like getting a chance to meet Kant or Hume or Nietzsche or someone doing historically important philosophical work while they were still alive, and I honestly deeply wonder if these aren't unfair comparisons. At least from my perspective in this moment, Iain is an absolute legend, and he may genuinely become one as time passes.

Some other great talks with Iain: Rebel Wisdom with John Vervaeke and Iain McGilchrist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdB-B... Sam Harris and Iain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJRx9... Iain McGilchrist: Matter and Consciousness - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O1Q... Curt Jaimungal and Iain McGilchrist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-SgO... Iain McGilchrist: Deep Longing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ysEV... Rebel Wisdom: The Matter with Things - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U99dQ...

Iain McGilchrist https://channelmcgilchrist.com/ https://www.amazon.ca/Master-His-Emis... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCW0L... https://twitter.com/dr_mcgilchrist Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvande... https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

John Vervaeke PhD is an associate professor in Psychology and Cognitive Science whose work focuses on meaning and the science of wisdom. He's an award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto, with his classes ranging from psychology, cognitive science to Buddhist psychology. His popular youtube lecture series "Awakening From The Meaning Crisis" has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times and has struck a chord with many struggling in the modern day to engage with a sense of "meaning" in life.

Awakening from the Meaning Crisis Lecture Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ&index=1&t=1s

NOTE: Due to my lack of professional camera equipment, I generally don't manage to get the whole conversation on video when I record (the limits of video on a non-video DSLR). Beyond that, the hard drive the video files for conversation were stored on failed shortly before editing and the files needed to be reconstructed with some special software, which caused certain sections to be glitched out and unusable, which is why you'll see a few moments where the video fades away and comes back. If you'd like to help support me in getting a proper camera set up to continue with this project, feel free to reach out at thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast @ gmail.com

John Vervaeke

https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke/featured

http://johnvervaeke.com/

https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/

Garrett Vandenberg

https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​

https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/

https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

"Both Christians and atheists incorrectly accept the narrative that believers must reject evolution. I want to change this paradigm. I want to help Christians question their assumptions about this topic and broaden their perspective." - April M. Cordero April Maskiewicz Cordero PhD is a professor of biology at Christian university (Point Loma Nazarene) in San Diego and has taken on the challenging task of teaching evolution and ecology to Christian college undergraduates. She's co-authored several books and delivered several notable lectures and talks at TED and Biologos. I was connected with April by a mutual friend and I was immediately struck by her energy and charisma. April is incredibly fun to listen to and talk to and is very compassionate. If anyone is up to the task of kindly and carefully unpacking the tension surrounding the Creation/Evolution debate in evangelical circles, it's her. I was so honoured to get to have the opportunity to chat with her for a bit about that tension specifically, as well as her story of leaving and coming back to faith in a time of heavy pressure to accept either atheistic evolution or Christian creationism. April was on the cutting edge of those unwilling to accept this dichotomy in the '90s and 2000s and has helped push the Evangelical movement forward on this issue in a valuable way. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

I've known Brayden since I was a kid. Like many old friendships, Facebook allowed us to reconnect in some interesting ways later in life when we otherwise might not have crossed paths. I noticed Brayden had been posting a lot about various conspiracy theories and generally pushing back against the standard narrative and thought it would be interesting to meet up and chat again about just what a conspiracy theory actually entails, and whether or not we can figure out a healthy way of engaging with that type of thinking without going overboard.

Conversation with John Vervaeke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3AxPCwoVxA

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John Vervaeke

https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke/featured

http://johnvervaeke.com/

https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/

Garrett Vandenberg (host/me) https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​

https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/

https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/

https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

John Vervaeke PhD is a Cognitive Scientist and Cognitive Psychotherapist whose work focuses on meaning and the science of wisdom. He's an award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto, with his classes ranging from psychology, cognitive science to Buddhist psychology.

I discovered John and his work through my friend Connor during a time when we were both doing a lot of soul-searching and struggling with the ever-encroaching cloud of nihilism that is modern-day media. When we discovered John's work as well as the work of others in his "corner of the internet", our whole relationship to meaning, story, religion, and life changed.

When John agreed to speak with me, I was ecstatic at the chance to finally throw some of the many ideas that had bubbled up inside me during his lectures at him. While there were many more topics I'd originally hoped to hit on, I decided it would be best for our first conversation to try to zero in on the thesis of this whole project and discuss the dynamic of connection with people, things, and life in the age of the internet.

If you've been watching the channel for a bit you'll probably have picked up on my frustration with the atmosphere of modern media. I find social media and media in general acting as an attention-sucking soul-harvesting machine, but one that seems to be too integrated into our culture to simply unplug from and maintain the expected level of engagement with the world and culture around me. It feels like a sort of "damned if I do, damned if I don't" problem to me sometimes, and I often have trouble digging myself out of that thought cycle.

John was extremely gracious in his listening to my complaining about existence, which I was deeply thankful for. While I appreciate that I can be a bit of a downer, I find that I am simply not satisfied with an answer to difficult questions unless the question has had an appropriate amount of time on the mic to make its case. I really appreciated John patience, and ultimately this ended up feeling more like a therapy session than a conversation at times (which is bound to happen sometimes when talking to a psychotherapist).

I had really hoped to talk to John a bit more about Buddhism, Christianity, and Neo-platonism and the common threads between those traditions as well, but we ended up not having enough time to circle around to these topics. Fortunately, we've scheduled a follow up to this conversation, which will be out in several weeks, so be sure to subscribe and keep and eye out for that.

Key Terms:

Perennial -- Lasting or existing for a long or apparently infinite time; enduring or continually recurring

Relevance Realization -- Becoming aware of the most meaningful way to participate or engage with one's environment

Affording/Affordance -- the quality or property of an object that defines its possible uses or makes clear how it can or should be used

Works Mentioned:

The Science of Wisdom in a Polarized World: Knowns and Unknowns - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1047840X.2020.1750917?needAccess=true (Mentioned at 53:00) Arthur Aron:

The Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some Preliminary Findings - https://psychodramaaustralia.edu.au/sites/default/files/falling_in_love-aron.pdf (Mentioned at 57:30)

Paul Tyson - Returning to Reality: Christian Platonism for Our Times - https://www.amazon.ca/Returning-Reality-Christian-Platonism-Times/dp/1610979249

Videos:

1:00:50 My Conversation with J.P. video Concerning Catholicism and the Transcendent - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBvNK58WwQM&t=3615s

1:09:05 John Vervaeke's "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" Series - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ

Subscribe to the podcast

Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF

iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655

Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s

Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/

John Vervaeke https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke/featured

http://johnvervaeke.com/

https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/

Garrett Vandenberg

https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​

https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/

https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/

https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/ 

Michael Wiseman is the host of "The Bible Says What?"-- a podcast a youtube channel exploring the limits of evangelical theology and biblical theory from an atheist perspective. He's also the author of a book of the same name, which you can find online here - https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Says-What-Michael-Wiseman-ebook/dp/B08Y7BLM3H/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

I came into contact with Mike earlier this year when he reached out to me, and we've had several engaging conversations comparing notes on our journeys with evangelicalism since then. He and I have obviously landed on very different pages, but he's been a very fun person to talk to and get to know over the past few months. I hope you enjoy getting to know Mike a bit, and if you enjoy our interaction, be sure to check out the other conversations we've had on his channel:

Episode 102: Fight or Flight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5dFsh6U_ic&t=2002s

Episode 103: Looking for the Good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2IEs3a2MoY&t=1163s

We recently had another conversation on his channel, which will be coming out soon, so keep an eye out.

Subscribe to the podcast

Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF

iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655

Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s

Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/

Michael Wiseman

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7FrIcfAfHHRr9ZkKSR11BQ

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bible-says-what/id1383942979

https://www.instagram.com/bswthepodcast/?hl=en

https://www.facebook.com/BSWthepodcast/ https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Says-What-Michael-Wiseman/dp/1839191066

Garrett Vandenberg (Me)

https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​

https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/

https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

My Music Instrumental/Meditational Project https://open.spotify.com/track/7E1CfMCcl8NNfpIXriFApt?si=942e22dc144942d0

Covers EP

https://open.spotify.com/album/0DZaK7WYBzERovmrNK7lgw?si=91nky4TITiawgYtD2mf8Yw&dl_branch=1

Evan and I sit down to unpack some of the trickier parts of my most recent conversation with J.P. Marceau.

J.P. and I unpack his latest article concerning the overlap between Christianity, Buddhism, and various other religious traditions on their central "trinity" like concepts. While I recommend reading the article, it's not necessary to read first (in fact I'd recommend reading it after watching) as this conversation is intended primarily to help introduce the ideas he discusses in the article to general audiences.

Unfortunately, some of the data for this conversation was corrupted and had to be repaired. As a result, a section in the middle has reduced audio quality. Sorry for that!

J.P.'s article: https://thesymbolicworld.com/articles/evil-enlightenment-and-easter/

David Bentley Hart's book - https://www.audible.ca/pd/The-Doors-of-the-Sea-Where-Was-God-in-the-Tsunami-Audiobook/B07KBFBT5S?qid=1623361348&sr=1-1&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=b278ed0a-c3b2-4491-808c-7cb2190a487c&pf_rd_r=RZBK91XMA5RDGHC4TMP9

Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF

iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655

Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s

Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/

JP Marceau

https://twitter.com/jeanphi76459673?lang=en https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZzlvx0HHYiPOJTEOU399WA https://thesymbolicworld.com/author/jp_marceau16/

Garrett Vandenberg

https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/

https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Jean-François Martel has been working with various Canadian producers as a screenwriter and director for the past ten years. He's worked on numerous documentaries that have aired on most of Canada's major broadcasters, as well as writing and directing a number of award winning dramatic short films including "Cicada,". He's also the author of the fantastic short book/manifesto/artistic call to action "RECLAIMING ART IN THE AGE OF ARTIFICE" which was published in 2015. J.F. co-hosts a weekly philosophy of art podcast called "Weird Studies".

I discovered J.F. and his work earlier this year via another podcast and was immediately drawn in by his interesting and uncommonly well-thought-out positions on art and symbolism. After reading his book I was so enthralled I couldn't wait to get to chat with him about what I think is one of the most pressing issues we're facing today in the developed world: how we approach both the consumption and creation of art, stories, and media.

Get J.F.'s book here https://www.amazon.ca/Reclaiming-Art-Age-Artifice-Treatise/dp/1583945784#:~:text=Reclaiming%20Art%20in%20the%20Age%20of%20Artifice%20places%20art%20alongside,dancers%2C%20filmmakers%2C%20and%20poets.

JF Martel

https://twitter.com/JF_Martel

https://www.weirdstudies.com/

http://www.reclaimingart.com/

Garrett Vandenberg

https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic

https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/

https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/