The Product Porch – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Ever wonder how to tell if a product leader is actually good—or just good in interviews? In this episode, we talk through what strong product leadership really looks like, how to spot warning signs, and what to do if you’re not getting the support you need. We also cover the questions you should be asking when you're interviewing for a new role and how to make the most of a good leader when you have one.

If you’re thinking about your next move—or just want to get better at working with your current boss—this one’s for you.

Transcript: Episode 21 - Before You Say Yes: Interviewing your Next Boss

Introduction
[0:00] Welcome Back – Kicking off the episode with a hill metaphor and the big question: what makes a great product leader?
[2:00] A Tough Early Experience – A story of receiving poor leadership advice and the fallout with IT.

Weak vs. Strong Leadership
[4:36] Leadership Is Influence – Highlighting the power of cross-functional trust and respect.
[6:00] What Great Leaders Do – Traits that matter: trust, vision, honesty, listening, decisiveness, and more.
[8:26] Anti-Patterns – Indecisiveness, pass-through behavior, and leaders who don’t push back.

When Your Boss Isn’t a Great Leader
[9:25] Taking the Right First Steps – The value of seeking out learning and acting independently.
[11:08] Pushing Change Without Buy-In – The mistake of skipping the “why” when introducing new ways of working.
[13:01] The Importance of Positioning – How to position yourself well when you have a weak leader
[14:09] Show Your Work – Tips for demonstrating your impact in a way your leader will understand and support.

External Pressures on Leaders
[16:00] How Strong Leaders Can Become Weak – How organizational pressure can derail even the strongest leaders.
[18:45] Why It All Matters – Weak leadership affects career growth, team success, and even headcount.

Taking Control of Your Narrative
[20:34] What You Can Control – Focus on your communication, relationships, and personal brand.
[21:37] What Not to Do – Avoid sabotage, complaints, and repeating broken patterns.
[22:08] Find Support Elsewhere – You don’t have to rely on your manager for growth and mentorship.

How to Identify a Strong Leader in an Interview (Role Play)
 [22:30] Role Play: Product Launch – A side-by-side of strong vs. weak leadership responses. 
 [25:23] Spotting the Difference – Look for accountability, clarity, and thoughtful process. 
 [27:01] Role Play: Talent Development – Coaching vs. control and the risk of "mini-me" management. 
 [29:30] Interpreting the Signals – What good answers sound like—and what they reveal. 
 [30:26] Ask About Vision – Great leaders can clearly explain product and team direction.
 [32:20] Accepting Risk – Not every role is perfect, but know what matters most to you.

Selecting a Leader Based on your Career Goals
[34:32] Know What You Need – What motivates you may change over time. 
[35:25] Setting Criteria – Define what you want from a company, role, and manager. 
[36:04] Learning by Example – Good senior leaders model behaviors worth following.

Getting the Most from a Strong Leader
 [37:03] Soak It Up – Watch how they respond and model their soft skills. 
 [38:03] Be Curious – Ask questions to uncover the thinking behind their actions. 
 [39:39] Ask for Feedback – Strong leaders will invest in you—if you’re ready for it. 
 [40:18] Show Initiative – Be proactive and bring your A-game. 
 [40:52] Values and Fit – Great leaders aren’t always a perfect fit—know what you need.

Final Thoughts
 [41:44] No One Is Perfect – Take ownership and learn from what’s in front of you. 
 [42:29] Don’t Take Great Leaders for Granted – The right leader is worth more than just a salary bump.

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Every product manager hears it: “Go talk to users.” But what if you don’t know how to find them? In this episode of The Product Porch, hosts Todd Blaquiere, Joe Ghali, and Ryan Cantwell tackle the challenge of getting in front of the right users for discovery—without relying on guesswork.

We explore real-world strategies for identifying and connecting with users, whether you’re working in B2B or B2C. How do you leverage customer success and sales teams? What’s the best way to reach users when there’s a gatekeeper in the way? And how can you build a system that ensures continuous access to valuable user insights?

If you’ve ever felt stuck wondering where to start, this episode delivers practical, battle-tested approaches to help you stop assuming and start learning from the right people.

- Respondent.io
- Guidepoint
- Continuous Discovery Habits, by Teresa Torres

Introduction
[1:00] The Struggle to Find Users – Ryan shares frustrations with finding users for research.
[2:00] Superman & Stats – Over 80% of new products fail—why?

Why Customer Understanding Matters
[4:30] Skipping Discovery? Big Mistake. – The risk of assumptions in product development.

Finding B2C Users
[5:17] Where to Start – Buyer vs. user personas and key differences.
[6:10] No Users? No Problem. – Where to find early users.
[8:40] Recruiting Tactics – Using tools like Respondent.io and direct outreach.

Challenges in B2B Discovery
[9:14] B2B Buyer Personas – Engaging decision-makers in complex sales.
[10:28] Getting Past Gatekeepers – Building trust with sales and success teams.

Overcoming Internal Barriers
[13:57] WIIFM & Sales Buy-in – How to align with sales teams.
[15:00] Prepping Stakeholders – Avoiding risks when bringing others into discovery.

Finding B2B Users
[18:20] Titles Don’t Unlock Access – Trust matters more than job roles.
[20:30] The Power of Listening – Why humility is key to discovery.
[22:30] Building Access Over Time – Joe’s "5-minute" method.

Why Discovery Saves Money
[24:16] The ROI of Discovery – Companies save 20-30% in development costs**.**

Helping Teams Value Product Management
[26:45] Todd’s Intro Formula – "My job is to add value to your life."
[26:54] Sharing Learnings – Why knowledge-sharing strengthens teams.

Finding Competitor’s Customers
[27:54] Tactics for Competitive Research – Engaging users ethically.
[30:02] Where to Look – Reddit, LinkedIn, industry events.
[31:00] Paying for Access – Tools like Guidepoint deliver targeted insights.

Working with Internal Users
[34:25] Internal Customers – Are they easier to reach, or do we get lazy?
[35:56] Risks & Landmines – Pitfalls when engaging internal users.

Lightning Round: Best Interview Questions
[38:07] Go-To Questions – How do you measure success? How painful is this problem on a scale of 1-5?
[40:45] The Uncomfortable Pause – A simple but powerful interviewing technique.

Takeaways
[42:28] Key Lessons – Finding the right users, building internal trust, and making discovery a habit.

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1:42 - Meet Jeff and his big question for product managers: "How can we ensure we have the right understanding from our leaders?"

4:30 - Ryan emphasizes the importance of focusing on outcomes over outputs to clarify product manager responsibilities.

7:35 - Todd jokes about where their "outputs over outcomes" tattoo should go.

9:20 - Ryan urges product managers to seek clarity when they don’t understand the "why" behind a request.

10:30 - Todd shares a story from his LA Times days on asking for clarification from his boss.

15:12 - The group discusses how product managers can overcomplicate unclear requests.

16:00 - Joe suggests playing the "New Guy" card when in doubt.

19:00 - The team highlights that asking questions is a strength for a product manager, not a weakness.

23:35 - Ryan poses the question: Is there ever a time when product managers shouldn't ask for clarification?

24:28 - Joe shares a story about when he had to "bite his tongue" as a product manager.

26:30 - Todd adds that timing is everything; knowing when to ask is part of the product manager job.

30:00 - Joe discusses the role evolution from order-taker to partner for a product manager.

33:26 - Todd revisits Jeff’s story to highlight the importance of avoiding wasted time and resources on misaligned products.

34:30 - Joe shares a product manager tip: develop internal personas to better manage stakeholders and understand their goals.

35:20 - A lightning round on common requests that product managers initially misunderstood.

36:40 - The infamous "JIRA-slinging ticket monkey" term makes an appearance. Shoutout to Dean Peters!

38:46 - Key takeaways (and some friendly teasing of Joe for his wording choices).

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Episode Description

1:00- Meet Nils Davis

2:47- Nils reminds us that Product Managers are really “Unicorns” in the workforce

7:00- Nils shares his favorite phrase as a Product Manager “Your obvious is your art”

8:47- Nils shares the pros/cons of understanding your “spike”

10:03- We discuss how it's difficult to share our superpower with the people that surround us

12:08- Nils shares the different ways we can discover our PM spike/superpower

15:45- Todd shares the struggle with asking for feedback to identify your PM spike/superpower

17:52- Nils shares one of his PM spikes 

20:15- Todd shares the PM spike he wishes he had

22:12- Todd compares Joe’s PM spike to that of a Golden Retriever 

25:20- A new word is introduced to the Product Porch- “Pragmatic Empathy”

28:15- Todd asks the question of whether or not the PM role has a unique set of capabilities

33:19- We review the stable of “Product” Unicorns- 

36:19- Todd reminds us why he’s against Annual Performance Reviews and not a coder 🙂

39:10- We wrap up with our advice for the PM community struggling to find their “spike” (Nils-leverage Clifton Strengths Finder assessment)- people are the stars of their own movies 

40:18- Todd- Don’t feel guilty for your spike. Find that thing that you love and lean into it

41:30- Joe- Be genuine and true to yourself (not as profound as Todd/Nils)

42:00- Nils ends with a very profound thought- “Product Managers are amazing creatures, yet you would never know it from reading their resume”

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2:15 What are the Product Management trends everyone is talking about

4:30- Todd asks the question: Are we focusing on the problem at the expense of the solution? 

7:00- Joe explains why he believes we have over-indexed on some of the common PM themes

10:05- We are getting paid to deliver- reality check for all PMs

11:45- Ryan tells how this is a struggle for Type A personalities 

13:16- Todd walks us through his approach to move to execution (from high-level concepts to delivery)

14:21- Joe’s shares an unpopular opinion about SAFe and its value for Product Leaders

16:08- Todd shares how he uses Ryan and Joe for some very specific product needs- team bonding moment

18:45 Todd admits that SAFe quarterly planning is awesome. Joe and Todd have a moment

22:54- What is the Product Managers Role in Solutioning? Ryan shared his POV

27:12- Todd shares a current situation on what to do with competing perspectives on proposed solutions-

29:09- You need to have confidence and conviction- Ryan Cantwell- this is what a PM needs to do

30:30- Sometimes you just make calculated risks as Product Managers- we discuss as a team

35:03- Todd kicks off a Job title game- problem or solution. Grab your popcorn!

39:01- Todd shares why he loves “defining the problem”

41:04- Key Takeaways- 

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1:22 The fellas discuss their favorite Ken phrase

1:44- Ken tells us what it means to be a product management truth teller

5:16- What can we do as product managers to become more valuable?

8:35- One of the first steps- What goal are you trying to achieve and how can I help you get there?

10:30- Ken tells us why you should spend 20 min a week interviewing a customer

12:55: Todd outlines why experimentation is critical for a product manager

16:45- The team discuss the product management anti-patterns we should watch out for

23:00- How to make yourself an indispensable product person?

26:30- Ken talks about how you can build a quarterly plan to build a strong product management team

28:00- Todd shares his PM secret sauce- Product Framing

29:00- Ryan reminds us to ask the question “So What”

30:56- We share Ken’s favorite PM phrase “Magic Beans”

34:15- What got us here (why are there so many PMs that are unemployed)?

37:40- Is there another domain where the role is defined by someone who doesn’t understand the value of product management?

40:00 Key Takeaways/Wrap-up

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1:22- Joe explains why the role of Product Player Coach role is a cop-out

2:51- Todd uses data to say how it can work and leverages his love of the NBA to demonstrates why

5:34- We discuss what success looks like for a Product Manager Player Coach 

10:02- Ryan walks us through how we resolved the challenges associated with this hybrid role

13:32- Todd walks us through the disadvantages of the hybrid PM/Coach role

16:03- Joe emphatically tells us why Product Managers must be successful at relationships- Product Managers are already “coaches”

20:15- We talk about getting uncomfortable to grow as a product manager

23:30- Joe discusses his affinity for gold stars

26:30- Life lessons from being a player-coach have advantages for career advancement if you want to be a people manager

30:20- What are the negatives of being a player-coach?

32:30- We hear about Todd’s real-life experience as a player-coach. Todd clashes with his peers but learns to turn it around.

34:50- Ryan tells us about his real-life experience as a player-coach. He’s the scapegoat!

37:10- How do relationships change when you become a player-coach?

40:20- Hear a fantastic analogy between player-coach and Spider-man 2

44:25- Words of advice for anyone considering the role of player-coach.

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1:30 Ryan ponders what product failure means?

3:37 The true definition of failure is identified

6:33 Todd speaks to the categories of product failure

9:33 Todd assumes the role of therapist and tells Ryan and Joe they didn’t fail 

12:13- We discuss how we turn failure into a learning opportunity

15:06- Joe discusses the most underrated product management skill

19:08- We bring back the Jobs to be done framework when dealing with our co-workers

22:25- Todd shares a tip on how manage friction with a co-workers (brilliant)

25:44- We talk about the temptation to take short-cuts with process

29:00 Todd tells us why he didn’t win any newsroom awards one year

31:00 Ryan comes up with a new PM slogan “It's the scars that make you and not the successes” (Joe thinks it should be on a bumper sticker)

32:34- The “learning” is knowing how we can do it better next time (Hallmark card time)

35:00 - Todd reminds why we shouldn’t never give up when the going gets tough

36:08 - We talk about the fear of using AI to make product management short cuts

37:09 - We all share our product failure war stories

44:30- Wayne’s World reference makes its way into our podcast- Success!

48:00- Thoughts on how you respond to failure drives who you are as a product manager

52:00 Wrap Up

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1:07 – Joe kicks off the discussion on useless product management terms.
1:49 – We start the PM Jargon Draft, with Todd winning the #1 pick.
3:04 – Todd and Ryan’s #1 pick: "CEO of the Product."
4:23 – Joe’s #1 pick: "Customer Centric" (he’s salty he couldn’t trade for the #1 pick).
6:07 – Todd discusses how every healthcare company is "patient-first" – shouldn’t we all be patient-first in healthcare?
7:14 – Ryan questions "Productize" – is it a verb? A new word in the English dictionary? The big draft controversy.
9:41 – Todd adds "Gathering Requirements" to his hit list of terrible PM terms. We suggest "Gathering Insights" as a better alternative.
15:00 – Iteration vs. Agile discussion – "We are going to be Agile" drives Joe nuts because it often just means "Can we launch it faster?"
18:20 – Ryan selects a declaration: "We are going to be more innovative." 
21:10 – "Thinking outside the box" is a controversial pick in the draft.
22:25 – Todd explains why he hates the term "Feature Parity"; Joe recommends "Holistic Approach" instead.
30:51 – "Being Product-led" is a steal in the 3rd round for Ryan, who explains what it really means.
36:10 – Undrafted superstar PM Terms (Joe has PTSD from Ryan yelling at him for "fail fast").
40:00 – Todd predicts next year’s draft class, starting with "Outcomes over Outputs," "Product-Market Fit," and "Go-to-Market Enablement."
43:00 – Actionable takeaways.

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• Ryan tells us how he leveraged PM principles recently for his mulch project ( 0:45)
• Joe shows us how Ryan applied the Jobs to Done framework to Ryan’s approach (3:00)
• We discuss how often we apply PM Principles creep into our life (5:00)
• Todd discusses how Problem Framing can be applied in real-world scenarios (12:00)
• Joe gives us a review of the Broadway Show “Heart of Rock and Roll” (20:00)
• Ryan walks us through dot voting techniques for family (21:00)
• Todd experiments with Tiny Acts of Discovery (23:50) 
• Ryan applies iteration techniques when filling up the dishwasher (26:40)
• Todd discusses success metrics and his neighbor's lawn (31:00)
• We talk about which product principles don’t work in real life (32:27)
• Key takeaways and our recommendations (38:24)

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