So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast – Détails, épisodes et analyse

FIRE staffers take your questions on the TikTok ban, mandatory DEI statements, the Kids Online Safety Act, Trump vs. the media, and more.

• Ari Cohn, lead counsel for tech policy

• Robert Shibley, special counsel for campus advocacy

• Will Creeley, legal director

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If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire.org and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.

00:00 Intro

00:52 Donate to FIRE!

02:49 TikTok ban

10:01 Ari’s work as tech policy lead counsel

12:03 Mandatory DEI statements at universities

15:19 How does FIRE address forced speech?

18:17 Texas’ age verification law

24:35 Would government social media bans for minors be a First Amendment violation?

33:48 Online age verification

35:17 First Amendment violations while making public comments during city council/school board public meetings

37:25: Edison, New Jersey city council case

39:48 FIRE’s role in educating Americans

41:55 If social media addiction cannot be dealt with like drugs, how can it be dealt with?

43:34 “Pessimists Archive” Substack and moral panics

45:27 Trump and the media

51:23 Gary Gadwa case

52:49 How to distinguish the freedom of speech versus freedom from social consequences?

55:53 Free speech culture is a “mushy concept”

57:58 ABC settlement with Trump

01:01:27 Nico’s upcoming book!

01:02:32 FIRE and K-12 education

01:04:40 Outro

“TikTok Inc. and ByteDance LTD. v. Merrick B. Garland, in his official capacity as attorney general of the United States” (D.C. 2024)

“Opinion: The TikTok court case has staggering implications for free speech in America” L.A. Times (2024)

H.B. No. 1181 (Tex. 2023; Texas age-verification law)

“The Anxious Generation” Jonathan Haidt (2024)

S. 1409 - Kids Online Safety Act (2023-2024)

American Amusement MacH. Ass’n v. Kendrick (Ind. 2000)

“Edison Township, New Jersey: Town Council bans props, including the U.S. flag and Constitution, at council meetings” FIRE (2024)

“LAWSUIT: Arizona mom sues city after arrest for criticizing government lawyer’s pay” FIRE (2024)

"President Donald J. Trump v. J. Ann Selzer, Selzer & Company, Des Moines Register and Tribune company, and Gannett Co., Inc.” (2024)

“Trump v. American Broadcasting Companies, Inc.” (2024)

“New Jersey slaps down censorship with anti-SLAPP legislation” FIRE (2023)

“FIRE defends Idaho conservation officer sued for criticizing wealthy ranch owner’s airstrip permit” FIRE (2023)

“On Liberty” John Stuart Mill (1859)

“Home Depot cashier fired over Facebook comment about Trump shooting” Newsweek (2024)

“Free speech culture, Elon Musk, and Twitter” FIRE (2022)

“Questions ABC News should answer following the $16 million Trump settlement” Columbia Journalism Review (2024)

“Appellants’ opening brief — B.A., et al. v. Tri County Area Schools, et al.” FIRE (2024)

“Who controls what is taught in American universities — professors or politicians?”

Yale Law professor Keith Whittington answers this timely question and more in his new book, “You Can’t Teach That! The Battle over University Classrooms.” He joins the podcast to discuss the history of academic freedom, the difference between intramural and extramural speech, and why there is a “weaponization” of intellectual diversity.

Keith E. Whittington is the David Boies Professor of Law at Yale Law School. Whittington’s teaching and scholarship span American constitutional theory, American political and constitutional history, judicial politics, the presidency, and free speech and the law.

Read the transcript.

Timestamps: 

00:00 Intro

02:00 The genesis of Yale’s Center for Academic Freedom and Free Speech

04:42 The inspiration behind “You Can’t Teach That!”

06:18 The First Amendment and academic freedom

09:29 Extramural speech and the public sphere

17:56 Intramural speech and its complexities

23:13 Florida’s Stop WOKE Act

26:34 Distinctive features of K-12 education

31:13 University of Pennsylvania professor Amy Wax

39:02 University of Kansas professor Phillip Lowcock

43:42 Muhlenberg College professor Maura Finkelstein

47:01 University of Wisconsin La-Crosse professor Joe Gow

54:47 Northwestern professor Arthur Butz

57:52 Inconsistent applications of university policies

01:02:23 Weaponization of “intellectual diversity”

01:05:53 Outro

Show notes:

• “Speak Freely: Why Universities Must Defend Free Speech” Keith Whittington (2019)

• “You Can't Teach That!: The Battle Over University Classrooms” Keith Whittington (2023)

• AAUP Declaration of Principles on Academic Freedom and Tenure (1915)

• AAUP Statement of Principles on Academic Freedom and Tenure (1940)

• “Kinsey” (2004)

• Stop WOKE Act, HB 7. (Fla. 2022)

• Keyishian v. Board of Regents (1967)

• Indiana intellectual diversity law, S.E.A. 354 (Ind. 2022)

• “Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District” (1969)

How has 19th-century English philosopher John Stuart Mill influenced America’s conception of free speech and the First Amendment?

In their new book, “The Supreme Court and the Philosopher: How John Stuart Mill Shaped U.S. Free Speech Protections,” co-authors Eric Kasper and Troy Kozma look at how the Supreme Court has increasingly aligned its interpretation of free expression with Mill’s philosophy, as articulated in “On Liberty.”

Eric Kasper is professor of political science at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, where he serves as the director of the Menard Center for Constitutional Studies.

Troy Kozma is a professor of philosophy and the academic chair at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire - Barron County.

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

02:26 Book’s origin

06:51 Who is John Stuart Mill?

10:09 What is the “harm principle”?

16:30 Early Supreme Court interpretation of the First Amendment

26:25 What was Justice Holmes’ dissent in Abrams v. U.S.?

30:28 Why did Justice Brandeis join Holmes’ dissents?

36:10 What are loyalty oaths?

40:36 Justice Black’s nuanced view of the First Amendment

43:33 What were Mill’s views on race and education?

50:42 Private beliefs vs. public service?

52:40 Commercial speech

55:51 Where do we stand today?

1:03:32 Outro

Transcript is HERE

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss the newly formed Academic Freedom Alliance, which is a union of American college faculty members dedicated to protecting faculty expressive and academic freedom rights.

Keith E. Whittington is the William Nelson Cromwell Professor of Politics in the Department of Politics at Princeton University. Professor Whittington is the chair of AFA’s Academic Committee. He also is a member of FIRE’s Board of Directors.

• Transcript

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There are very few exceptions to the First Amendment, and “incitement to imminent lawless action” is one of them. In the wake of former President Donald Trump’s impeachment trial over his alleged incitement of the Jan. 6 violence at the U.S Capitol, this obscure legal doctrine has captured headlines.

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss the incitement doctrine, and whether Trump’s Jan. 6 speech amounted to incitement, with First Amendment scholar and FIRE Legal Fellow David L. Hudson Jr. He is an Assistant Professor of Law at Belmont University and the Justice Robert H. Jackson Legal Fellow at FIRE.

• Transcript
• Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969)
• Transcript: Donald Trump speech at the Jan. 6 “Save America” rally

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we explore a multi-year public records odyssey at the University of California, Los Angeles involving former Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, a campus appearance, administrative stonewalling, and, finally, a successful lawsuit filed by FIRE.

And, on the eve of Student Press Freedom Day, we learn about the challenges student journalists face accessing public records in the University of California system and why access to such records is important for democracy and for student journalists to fulfill their watchdog role.

Show notes:

• Transcript

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by media lawyer Ian Rosenberg to discuss his new book, “The Fight for Free Speech: Ten Cases That Define Our First Amendment Freedoms.”

Rosenberg is assistant chief counsel at ABC, Inc., where he has provided pre-broadcast counsel for ABC News clients on libel, newsgathering, intellectual property, and FCC regulatory issues since 2003.

Show notes:

• Transcript

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Last summer, Columbia University Professor John McWhorter wrote that he was receiving missives almost daily “from professors living in constant fear for their career because their opinions” are incompatible with campus orthodoxies. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we catch up with McWhorter to discuss how the culture has changed (or not) since The Atlantic published his article, “Academics Are Really, Really Worried About Their Freedom.”

McWhorter is a member of FIRE’s Board of Directors and the host of the popular Lexicon Valley podcast.

Show notes:

• Transcript

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by senior editor at The Atlantic Kate Julian and FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff to discuss rising rates of childhood depression, anxiety, and suicide. 

How might these trends be connected to the way we parent our kids — and what do they mean for our wider society and for campus free speech?

Kate is the author of the 2020 Atlantic cover story, “What Happened To American Childhood?,” and this conversation is part of Greg’s “Catching up with Coddling” blog series, in which he reviews recent developments related to the themes of his co-authored 2018 book “The Coddling of the American Mind.”

Show notes:

• Transcript
• "Catching up with Coddling part seven: The #MustListen Kate Julian interview, ‘Runaway Homophily,’ and the second ‘Coddling’ Caveat" by Greg Lukianoff, Adam Goldstein, and Ryne Weiss
• “What Happened To American Childhood” by Kate Julian
• “The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas are Setting up a Generation for Failure” by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt
• “Catching up with Coddling” blog series
• “Why Are Young People Having So Little Sex” by Kate Julian
• Greg’s book recommendation: “Love, Money, and Parenting: How Economics Explains the Way We Raise Our Kids” by Matthias Doepke and Fabrizio Zilibotti

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On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Reason Magazine Senior Editor Robby Soave and FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff to discuss the Washington, DC Capitol riot of Jan. 6, 2021 and the effect it has had — and will have — on free speech, particularly speech on the internet.

Robby is the author of the forthcoming book “Tech Panic.”

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