Smarter Marketer – Détails, épisodes et analyse

For decades the agency-client relationship has worked on a transactional view of marketing and creative services. Agencies gave away their best thinking upfront, clients judged on surface-level ideas and both sides accepted a process that often undervalued expertise.

In this Smarter Marketer Podcast episode, Host James Lawrence and renowned author Blair Enns discuss how the future of creative and professional services lies in changing how we buy, sell and trust expertise. Whether you’re in-house or agency-side, these shifts carry big implications for how you choose partners and build lasting relationships that drive marketing success.

• Why traditional pitching often undervalues creative work and what it takes to break free from it
• How specialisation is the key to differentiation, growth and global reach
• What three-option proposals and value-based pricing reveal about how expertise should really be sold
• Why selling is less about the big presentation and more about a series of meaningful conversations
• How AI is fragmenting the market and empowering smaller, more specialised players
• What in-house marketers can do to unlock more value from their agency partners.

Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organisation for creative and professional services firms. He is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, Pricing Creativity and The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise. Blair is also the co-host of the widely followed 2Bobs podcast.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Ranking in ChatGPT is now one of the most urgent challenges in digital marketing. With millions of Australians using AI search every week, the question for in-house marketers isn’t whether ChatGPT is shaping buyer journeys anymore, it’s how to make sure your brand is visible where and when it matters most. 

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence is joined by Rocket’s Head of SEO, Joe Alder, to unpack the latest research and share practical advice on what it really takes to rank in ChatGPT.

• Why traffic from ChatGPT converts at over 5x the rate of traditional search traffic, and what that means for marketers
• The two ways ChatGPT sources information, and how each affects your visibility
• The technical dos and don’ts that determine whether your site can be read by ChatGPT
• How to structure copy so it’s more likely to be cited in AI search
• The kinds of content that are consistently favoured in AI responses
• Why authority now means brand mentions, reviews, listicles and awards, not just backlinks
• The hard truth about measurement: why click-through rates from ChatGPT are so low, and what you can do to track your traffic from AI search

Joe Alder is the Head of SEO at Rocket Agency, leading all SEO services and projects. With over 8 years of experience, Joe has implemented complex SEO campaigns for B2C, B2B and government organisations, working with notable brands such as Amazon, Qudos, P&O Cruises, PE Nation, Fujitsu and Coates. 

Since the launch of ChatGPT, he and his team have been at the frontline of AI search optimisation - running first-hand tests across thousands of queries, analysing data from Australia’s top websites and guiding brands on how to adapt their SEO strategies for an AI-driven future.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

In-house marketers and agency leaders don’t always speak the same language - but when they do, the results can be game-changing.

In this episode, host James Lawrence sits down with Drew McLellan, CEO of the Agency Management Institute, to unpack what makes agency relationships thrive or fail. Whether you're managing one agency or several, or considering switching partners altogether, this episode is for anyone wanting to bridge the in-house/agency gap.

• The top reason agency-client relationships break down: (communication) and how to fix 
• How in-house marketers can improve agency performance through more transparency
• Why caring (and showing it) really matters to agencies
• The red flags that indicate when it’s time to walk away from your agency
• Why investing in building a true partnership with your agency pays off

Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 25+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R. He also owns and runs the Agency Management Institute (AMI), which is a consultancy for small to medium-sized agencies that has been helping agency owners grow their agencies since the early 90s. Drew’s agency was a member of the organization for years before Drew acquired AMI and began to run it full-time. Drew’s often interviewed/quoted in Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.

You can follow Drew on LinkedIn.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Struggling to hire and keep talented marketers in Australia? Recruitment expert Alicia Lykos reveals where you should advertise open positions, how to be recruitment ready, and why a graduate program could be the best thing for your business!

Guest:

Alicia Lykos is the owner and founder of Red Wolf Group and is the trusted advisor to CEO’s across the country, helping them to optimise their talent to deliver on their strategy. Alicia has been in numerous executive HR roles across leading global IT organisations including Unisys, SAS Institute and Object Consulting. She is now the right hand to dozens of CEOs across Australia and is seen as their strategic talent advisor helping them drive growth and high performance using people data and leadership frameworks. Red Wolf Group in a leading Talent & Leadership Consultancy in Australia and she is focusing on helping organisations lead with confidence. Follow her on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alicialykos/] and on Instagram [@redwolfgroup], or visit her website [redwolfgroup.com.au].

Find Us Online:

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://www.smartermarketer.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Buy Smarter Marketer:

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

About the Podcast:

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

About the Episode:

In this weekly podcast, James Lawrence, co-founder of leading digital marketing agency Rocket, and co-author of the Amazon #1 bestselling book Smarter Marketer, will be interviewing key figures in the marketing industry to give you the latest trends, best resources, and tactical marketing advice. Stay tuned for our first episode!

Find Us Online:

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://www.smartermarketer.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Buy Smarter Marketer:

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

About the Podcast:

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

People don’t buy luxury for utility. In high-end markets, purchase decisions are driven by emotion, identity and status - not features or price points. For marketers in the high-end space, this changes everything.

In this episode of Smarter Marketer, Giverny Reid - Director at creative property marketing firm &Only and former Creative and Marketing Director at Crown Group - breaks down what actually drives demand in premium categories. 

• What sets luxury marketing apart from traditional marketing
• Why legacy and brand credibility matter more than ever
• How to genuinely harness scarcity and FOMO without any tricks
• Why real-world experiences still dominate in luxury and property marketing
• Using digital, AI and emerging technologies like AR/VR to spark desire
• Where most marketers get high-end marketing wrong 

Giverny Reid is the Director of creative property marketing firm &Only, bringing over 15 years of experience in building and positioning premium brands in the luxury space. Previously, she was the Creative and Marketing Director at Crown Group, where she played a key role in shaping one of Australia’s most recognised luxury property brands.

Giverny’s work has earned her recognition across the industry, including being named ‘Marketer of the Year’ by realestate.com.au in 2022. She’s also been a finalist in the B&T Under 30 Awards for Design and has led major brand and event campaigns across Australia.

You can follow Giverny on LinkedIn.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

The agency pitch process is one of the most important - yet deeply flawed - aspects of the marketer-agency relationship. In this Smarter Marketer Podcast episode, Host James Lawrence talks about the realities of modern-day pitching with someone who’s been at the coalface for decades: industry veteran Darren Woolley, Founder and CEO of TrinityP3.

Darren unpacks the latest State of the Pitch 2025 Report by TrinityP3, revealing why things have actually gotten worse in 2025 - and what both marketers and agencies can do to fix it. 

Read the State of the Pitch 2025 Report.

• The most common pitch mistakes made by marketers - and how to avoid them
• Why cost-cutting is undermining agency performance and client outcomes
• The real-world impact of involving too many agencies in a pitch
• How AI and automation are being overpromised in the pitch process
• Effective ideas to create a more respectful, effective and sustainable approach to pitching

Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management. A Problem Solver, Negotiator, Mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3 - Marketing Management Consultants, Industry Commentator, Podcaster, and Author. He is also a Past-Chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, Past President of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, Ex-Medical Scientist and Ex-Creative Director.

You can follow him on Instagram [@_trinityp3_], LinkedIn, or find out more on his website.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Email marketing might not be the newest toy in the digital toolbox, but it’s still one of the most powerful. In a time when AI is transforming how we work and big platforms are making it harder for businesses to own audience relationships, marketers are turning back to the basics - and doing them better.

Host James Lawrence sits down with Anthony Capano, Regional Director at Intuit Mailchimp, to talk about how email is thriving in Australia, how personalisation and AI are changing the game, and what smart brands are doing to get ahead. 

• Why email marketing is far from dead - and what Mailchimp’s intriguing SXSW campaign was really about
• How Australian brands are achieving some of the world’s highest email open rates
• The resurgence of email in an era of rising media costs, fragmented attention and zero-click search
• Why first-party data is becoming a non-negotiable for marketers
• The role of AI in scaling hyper-personalisation without stretching your team
• Mailchimp’s evolution: from a simple email tool to an integrated platform with SMS, automation, CRM and 300+ tech integrations
• How Aussie brands are using Mailchimp to manage their data, run omnichannel campaigns and boost ROI
• The growing importance of creative and consistency across channels
• What the future holds for marketing teams using Intuit Mailchimp

Anthony Capano is the Regional Director for Australia and New Zealand at Intuit Mailchimp. With over two decades of leadership experience across global ad tech and martech companies, Anthony has launched international brands into APAC, led localised campaigns for names like Woolworths, Telstra and IKEA, and previously served as Managing Director for North America at Rakuten Advertising.

Now back in Australia, Anthony is focused on expanding Mailchimp’s local footprint - building out on-the-ground support, growing strategic partnerships and helping marketers unlock the full power of email and first-party data. 

You can follow Anthony on LinkedIn.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Digital isn’t what it used to be and neither is marketing. In this episode of Smarter Marketer, James welcomes back industry legend Rand Fishkin, Co-Founder and CEO of Sparktoro, to cut through the noise as they discuss the flawed logic of traditional attribution models, the pitfalls of over-relying on Google and the importance of audience-first marketing to future-proof your digital strategy.

• Zero-click searches and AI Search tools - Where is traffic going?
• The AI hype cycle - Why most marketers are chasing the wrong trends
• SEO and digital PR strategies - When and why it's vital to invest in PR
• The hidden challenges of AI data sources and what they mean for marketers
• How to find and engage your ideal customers through audience research
• The evolution of social media - How platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn and TikTok are shifting
• Privacy, data collection and attribution - Why traditional tracking models are failing
• Brand awareness vs paid advertising - How to strike the right balance

Rand Fishkin is the co-founder and CEO of SparkToro, a leading audience research software company helping brands discover where their target customers engage online. Prior to founding SparkToro, Rand was the co-founder of Moz, where he built one of the most influential SEO communities in the world.

He’s also the author of Lost and Founder, a candid look at the startup world and a frequent speaker at global marketing conferences. 

You can follow Rand on LinkedIn.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm 

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Broad-reach campaigns are simply not enough sometimes. Account-Based Marketing (ABM) is emerging as an extremely effective strategy for businesses that are seeking deeper engagement, stronger relationships with their prospective clients and higher-value deals. But what does it really take to run an effective ABM program?

Host James Lawrence sits down with seasoned ABM strategist Paola Piccinno to unpack the nuances of this powerful marketing approach. Whether you’re considering ABM for the first time or looking to refine your approach, this episode is packed with practical advice, real-world examples and actionable takeaways.

• Paola’s journey - from London to Sydney and her global marketing experience
• What is ABM and how it differs from traditional B2B marketing and demand generation
• Common ABM challenges and misconceptions:
• Lack of ABM maturity in APAC and ANZ
• Getting buy-in between marketing, sales and the leadership
• Budget concerns due to the misconception that ABM is expensive
• The challenge of selecting the right accounts (and the right number of accounts)
• Creative detachment from the goal of the campaigns
• Case studies of stand-out ABM campaigns:

1. T-Mobile Batman comic book campaign - Using personalisation to secure a meeting with a CEO
2. Auto Telefonica’s remote control truck - Direct mail tailored to an executive’s interests
3. Adobe’s executive roundtable breakfast - Engaging high-level decision makers without a traditional sales pitch

• Technology and AI in ABM: opportunities and risks
• Practical advice for marketers considering ABM

Italian-born, Australia-based Fractional CMO, Paola brings 20+ years of experience leading and executing successful B2B marketing strategies across UK, EMEA and APAC for global brands (from big enterprises, to SMB’s and more recently startups), with a specialisation in strategic Account Based Marketing (ABM). She has helped numerous early-stage as well as established companies achieve significant growth through strategic ABM programs, and she is passionate about sharing her expertise with her international network. Paola currently mentors start-ups for the Techstars accelerator program in Australia, and she is also a post-grad lecturer at the University of the Sunshine Coast and RMIT in international business and digital marketing strategy.

You can follow Paola on LinkedIn. You can also visit her website to know more.

James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ 

Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast 

Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ 

Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg 

Kindle: