Ready to rethink business strategy and supercharge your marketing game?
Join hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros as they break down big questions at the crossroads of strategy, marketing effectiveness, and creative impact.
From real-world case studies to hot-off-the-press business news, each episode dives deep into how modern companies navigate complexity. Plus, interviews with global thought leaders bring you fresh insights and actionable strategies to drive growth and build unforgettable customer experiences.
This is your backstage pass to smarter thinking and better business results.
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SBP 240: SBP Interview - Target Canada: The Rise and Fall of a Promise, with Omar Roubi
Saison 5 · Épisode 240
mardi 29 septembre 2026 • Durée 01:03:21
Target is a company people love. More than 1,700 stores, a brand with real pull. Then it came to Canada, lost billions, and walked away inside four years.
This is a story about Big and Little marketing. Little is the advertising. Big is everything else: product, price, place, and how the whole business organizes around the customer. Roger Martin says a promise has to be memorable, valuable, and deliverable. Advertising makes it memorable. Price and place make it valuable. Product makes it deliverable. In Canada, Target's ads were excellent, and the business broke the promise anyway.
CPA Omar Roubi joins Marc and Vassilis to reverse engineer the collapse through the four Ps. Omar teaches this case at the University of Colorado Denver and built a definitive audio case study on it at LumiQ. He also lived it: his wife moved from Texas to help launch the Toronto-area stores.
Inside: the Zellers real estate deal that started the countdown, empty shelves sitting above full back rooms, the imperial vs metric mix-up, three distribution centres across a 6,000 km country, and why the famous $5.4B loss is mostly a writedown, not operating losses.
A case study in why great marketing can't save a broken business.
03:14 The personal connection: launching Target in Toronto
06:14 "Too big to fail"
06:36 The accountant's takeaway
09:22 Place: the Zellers real estate deal
12:08 Wrong locations, wrong customer
18:47 The 12-month countdown clock
22:25 Product: empty shelves, full back rooms
25:02 Physical availability and the metric mix-up
32:46 Price: "expect more, pay less" meets three warehouses
41:05 The currency headwind
45:07 The $5.4B loss vs the $200M operating loss
48:27 Little marketing: is ROI the wrong number?
53:01 The apology videos, and brand vs performance
57:04 The one number that signals trouble first
1:00:07 The human cost: 17,600 people
References:
References
CBC News. (2011, January 13). Target buys Zellers leases for $1.8B. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/target-buys-zellers-leases-for-1-8b-1.981132
CBC News. (2012, July 6). Target wins approval to come to Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/target-wins-approval-to-come-to-canada-1.1160485
Castaldo, J. (2016, January 1). The last days of Target. Canadian Business. https://canadianbusiness.com/ideas/the-last-days-of-target-canada/
Kumar, N. (2025, September 2). The experience paradox: Why better satisfaction scores don't always mean growth. Kantar. https://www.kantar.com/north-america/inspiration/experience/the-experience-paradox
LinkedIn B2B Institute & WARC. (2024, August 13). Making a promise to the customer: How to give campaigns a competitive edge. https://business.linkedin.com/advertise/resources/b2b-institute/making-a-promise-to-the-business-customer
Roubi, O. (Host). (2021, August). The rise and fall of Target Canada [Audio podcast]. LumiQ.
Strauss, M. (2013, April 5). Target Canada prices 0.2 per cent higher than Wal-Mart's: Survey. The Globe and Mail.
Strauss, M. (2014, September 22). Target Canada winning price battle with Wal-Mart. The Globe and Mail.
Target Corporation. (2011, January 13). Target Corporation to acquire interest in Canadian real estate from Zellers Inc., a subsidiary of Hudson's Bay Company, for C$1.825 billion [Press release]. https://corporate.target.com/press/release/2011/01/
Target Corporation. (2015a, January 15). Target Corporation announces plans to discontinue Canadian operations [Press release]. https://corporate.target.com/press/release/2015/01/
Target Corporation. (2015b, January 15). Form 8-K. U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0000027419/000002741915000005/
Zellers Inc., Hudson's Bay Company, Target Corporation, & Target Canada Co. (2011, September 12). Amended and restated transaction agreement [Exhibit 2(a) to Form 10-Q]. U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0000027419/000110465911066091/
SBP 239: The Sharp Cut - Who Killed the Click?
Saison 5 · Épisode 239
jeudi 24 septembre 2026 • Durée 25:45
Marketing runs on comfort blankets. The Sharp Cut cuts them up to see what's inside. This week, we did it as a murder mystery.
The victim: the click. Once upon a time a click was one honest fact, a machine noting that a file left a building. Over eleven years it got poisoned, dose by dose, until it was taking credit for sales it never caused.
The body: in 2012, eBay turned off roughly $51M in paid search across a third of the US, with matched control markets. Scored the way a dashboard scores it, the return was over 4,000%. Scored against the control, the only way that actually answers the question, it was minus 63%. Same company, same spend, same year.
Then we line up six suspects, the auction, the platforms, last click attribution, the CFO, the agency, and us, and ask each one the same two questions: did they have a reason, and did they have the access?
Marc and V get out of the costume for the part that stings: the doses we added ourselves. The Sport Chek war room. The machine V built to move money faster. The P&G cut everyone quotes that fails our own evidence test. And what happens to the click when the shopper is an AI.
We won't hand you a verdict, because we don't fully agree.
You're the jury.
Enjoy the show!
Chapters:
00:00 What the Sharp Cut is
00:49 A murder mystery: who killed the click?
01:30 Meet your six suspects
01:45 The body: eBay turns off $51M in paid search
03:35 4,000% ROI or minus 63%? Same campaign, two scores
03:57 What a click actually was (the first banner, 1994)
05:23 The 44% click rate nobody can verify
06:25 Cause of death: poisoned over eleven years
06:42 Three doses: price, bouncer, then credit
SBP 238: The Barber's Brief - Playing on rented land, again.
Saison 5 · Épisode 238
mardi 22 septembre 2026 • Durée 32:00
Marc and V are back with the Barber's Brief: the good, the bad, and the overhyped from the last couple of weeks, with data, a few strong opinions, and Great Creative getting the last word.
This week:
"My CEO doesn't get brand." Nearly half of B2B marketers say they can't get brand budget signed off. But 40% admit brand isn't seen as delivering ROI inside their own company. V's take: that's not an education gap, it's a proof gap. Fix the proof and the understanding follows.
Google AI Overviews are eating your website traffic. Studies put the click drop anywhere from 15% to 90%. Marc makes the case that we never owned our search rankings anyway. We've always been playing on rented land, and the landlord just changed.
QR codes in ads. Andrew Tindall of System1 says if you're still using them, you're a moron. CTV scan rates have fallen to 0.004%. V argues the QR code isn't the disease, it's the symptom. It is measurement theater and a confession that you don't trust the ad to do its job. Marc pushes back, and it gets good.
Nobody owns demand. A sharp post from Mats Georgson: who decides what you sell, to whom, at what price, and where. Rarely marketing. So what should marketing actually own?
Plus Ad of the Week: Tubi's funeral spot from "Find Any Feeling For Free," the funniest ad with the weakest branding you'll see all month.
Enjoy the show!
Chapters
00:00 Intro: welcome back to the Barber's Brief
01:11 Story 1: "My CEO doesn't get brand"
02:07 Education gap or proof gap?
04:05 The B2B Institute evidence: brand as the icebreaker
05:53 Story 2: Google AI Overviews are eating your traffic
07:23 Playing on rented land, again
09:34 Own your audience, or just change landlords?
SBP 237: The PostPod - Lessons from Ian Whittaker, Data is not the problem.
Saison 5 · Épisode 237
jeudi 17 septembre 2026 • Durée 18:00
Fresh off the Ian Whittaker interview, Marc and Vassilis sit down for the PostPod to unpack what actually stuck.
The through line: marketing keeps losing the budget argument because it treats finance as an obstacle instead of a customer. Ian's framing reframed it. Follow the incentives. Understand what executives are rewarded and punished for. Reframe budget as risk, not just missed opportunity. And stop leaning on "ROI" as if the word alone wins the room, because it is a ratio you can improve simply by cutting spend.
They also get honest about the echo chamber marketers live in, the gap between how advertising works and how people believe it works, and why infinite data and AI still have not cracked proof. Marc brings it down to earth with a personal lesson from running a real P&L.
No tidy answers. A much better set of questions.
Chapters:
00:00 The board is a customer too (cold open)
00:41 PostPod: why our heads were spinning
02:22 Follow the incentives, the question we never ask finance
03:12 Marc runs a P&L now, and cost is a worthy adversary
05:07 Marketing's echo chamber problem
06:10 Finance is the customer: vocabulary vs grammar
07:16 Learn capital allocation, not just the buzzwords
09:42 Why leading with ROI can get you cut
10:27 How advertising works vs believing how it works
11:40 Understand board priorities before you pitch
12:53 Infinite data, still can't prove ROI, enter DCF
15:05 The bridge and the ravine
16:45 Getting marketers closer to the business
SBP 236: SBP Interview - Data is not the problem. With Ian Whittaker.
Saison 5 · Épisode 236
mardi 15 septembre 2026 • Durée 50:14
Marketers have spent years trying to prove marketing works.
Better attribution. Better dashboards. Better measurement. More data.
And yet marketing still struggles to defend investment when budgets come under pressure.
Maybe proof isn't the real problem.
In this episode of the Sleeping Barber Podcast, Marc and V sit down with Ian Whitaker, Founder and Managing Partner of Liberty Sky Advisors and a former equities analyst with more than 20 years covering media, technology and telecommunications.
Ian argues that marketers have learned the vocabulary of finance without necessarily learning its grammar. Boards aren't simply deciding whether marketing works. They're deciding where the next dollar of capital should go, what return it could generate, what risk it carries and what risk the business accepts by not investing.
That changes the marketing conversation.
Ian explains why he thinks marketing should be understood as intangible capex, why brand investment could be separated into maintenance and growth, and why cutting marketing can create risks that aren't visible on the next quarterly earnings report.
The conversation also challenges one of marketing's favourite financial metrics: ROI.
As Ian points out, ROI can improve simply by reducing the denominator. You can cut marketing investment and increase marketing ROI, even while potentially making the business weaker over time. The metric may tell us something about efficiency without necessarily telling us whether we're maximizing effectiveness or enterprise value.
The discussion explores discounted cash flow, pricing power, financial incentives, the accounting treatment of brand investment and why strong brands can paradoxically become victims of their own success.
And ultimately, Ian makes a much simpler argument:
Data isn't the problem. Data is evidence that supports the business case. It isn't the business case itself.
SBP 235: The Sharp Cut - AI Won't Save You. Leadership Will.
Saison 5 · Épisode 235
jeudi 10 septembre 2026 • Durée 36:52
AI Won’t Save You. Leadership Will.
Companies have spent the last few years buying AI tools, running pilots and training employees. Yet much of that investment still isn't producing the transformation leaders expected.
Maybe the problem isn't the technology.
In this Sharp Cut, Marc and V examine why AI transformation is ultimately a leadership and organizational design problem.
They unpack research on the divide between AI experimentation and measurable business impact, Roger Martin's idea of the organization as a “decision factory,” and why making individual marketers faster may be solving the wrong problem. The real opportunity may lie in redesigning workflows, decision rights and standards around what AI can now do.
They also examine a more uncomfortable question: as AI becomes increasingly capable at professional work, what should humans actually be getting better at?
Marc shares the results of an AI marketing workshop where three groups used very different approaches to solve the same brief. All three produced impressive-looking work. The difference wasn't production quality. It was whether the people behind the work could explain and defend the decisions AI had helped them make.
Finally, the conversation goes back to 1855 and Daniel McCallum's railroad organization. A new information technology — the telegraph — forced leaders to rethink how their organizations worked. AI may be creating the same challenge today.
The tools are increasingly available to everyone.
The advantage won't come from simply having them.
It will come from how leaders redesign the organization around them.
Chapters
00:00 AI Won't Save You. Leadership Will.
01:14 The AI Transformation We Expected Never Happened
02:23 AI Is a Mode-Seeking Machine
SBP 234: The Barber's Brief - More Data. More Tech. More Specialists. Better Marketing?
Saison 5 · Épisode 234
mardi 8 septembre 2026 • Durée 33:45
Marketing has more data, technology and specialist expertise than ever.
But is all that sophistication actually making marketing better?
In this edition of The Barber's Brief, Marc and Vassilis unpack five stories that all raise different versions of that question.
First, AI assistants are increasingly embedded in how people discover and evaluate products, yet they still rank near the bottom of trusted sources for shopping recommendations. Marc asks whether AI will eventually become a reliable source of marketing knowledge or simply produce increasingly confident averages of everything we've already said.
Then, V looks at PepsiCo's decision to consolidate its global media business with Publicis under a single operating model spanning strategy, planning, activation, data, identity and technology. The bigger question: has fragmentation itself become one of marketing's biggest effectiveness problems?
Marc follows with the $700 billion MarTech delusion. One former privacy executive pulled her own data-broker profile and discovered she belonged to 500 segments, simultaneously classified as male and female, low income and high income. Research discussed in the episode suggests purchased targeting data can sometimes perform little better than chance, while contextual targeting may outperform it at lower cost.
Then comes something refreshingly simple.
The UPS Store has introduced its first brand character, Blu, designed to help expand the brand's mental associations beyond shipping into printing, shredding, mailboxes and other small-business services. V argues the opportunity isn't simply creating entertaining advertising; it's building a distinctive memory structure that can work across multiple buying situations.
Finally, Marc's Ad of the Week goes to Canva's Wild Design: handcrafted stop-motion advertising in an era where almost anyone can generate something instantly with AI. The campaign combines showmanship with salesmanship while continuing to invest in a recurring character as a potential distinctive asset.
SBP 233: The PostPod - Lessons From Fiona Stevenson. Why Innovation Fails.
Saison 5 · Épisode 233
jeudi 3 septembre 2026 • Durée 21:52
Everyone wants innovation. But what exactly are we asking for?
In this Post-Pod, Marc and Vassilis unpack their conversation with Fiona Stevenson, co-author of Built for Breakthrough, and start with one of the simplest problems: organizations frequently use the word “innovation” without agreeing on what it actually means.
Breakthrough? Disruption? A game changer? Incremental growth? A new tactic?
That distinction matters because, as Fiona argued, an idea doesn't become innovation until it is implemented and creates value.
From there, the conversation turns to the organizational conditions that innovation requires. Marc and V discuss why teams rush to solutions before properly understanding the problem, why genuine innovation creates fear, and how the pursuit of certainty can push organizations toward safer incremental improvements.
Rather than treating those stages as a checklist, Vassilis argues they should be viewed as multipliers. Skip one and you risk weakening the entire system.
The conversation closes with two bigger questions.
First, if innovation requires focused thinking, why do we expect it to happen between back-to-back meetings?
And second, if AI is giving us unprecedented productivity gains, will we use that extra capacity to explore new possibilities — or simply fill it with more of the same work?
A Post-Pod about innovation, uncertainty, AI, marketing and why being busy isn't the same thing as building the future.
Chapters
00:00 Welcome to the Post-Pod
00:21 Why “Innovation” Means Different Things to Everyone
SBP 232: SBP Interview - Why Innovation Fails Before the Idea Ever Gets a Chance. With Fiona Stevenson.
Saison 5 · Épisode 232
mardi 1 septembre 2026 • Durée 55:27
Why do organizations say innovation is mission-critical, then create conditions that make innovation almost impossible?
Fiona Stevenson has spent her career on both sides of that problem.
After 12 years at Procter & Gamble, she co-founded The Idea Suite, an innovation consultancy that has worked across hundreds of innovation projects. She is also the co-author of Built for Breakthrough: Why Innovation Fails and How Smart Leaders Get It Right.
In this conversation, Fiona joins Marc and Vassilis to unpack why innovation usually fails long before the idea itself is tested.
They explore the famous Febreze story and why understanding the actual consumer problem changed the brand’s trajectory, before getting into the organizational conditions required for innovation to survive.
Fiona explains why big innovation ambitions often collide with tiny budgets, part-time teams and unrealistic timelines; why past data can become dangerous when designing for the future; and why innovators need to build evidence instead of waiting for certainty.
The conversation also covers Fiona’s six-stage innovation framework:
Why “How might we?” is such a powerful innovation question
How AI is dramatically lowering the cost of prototyping
Why AI should be an input, not the final output
How implementation destroys good ideas through “death by a thousand cuts”
Why innovation needs dedicated time, not calendar scraps
How to create an innovation charter
SBP 231: The Sharp Cut - Marketing has more data than ever. So why does nobody believe it?
Saison 5 · Épisode 231
jeudi 27 août 2026 • Durée 36:22
Marketing has never been more measurable. It may also have never been more short-term.
If measurement was supposed to solve marketing's credibility problem, why hasn't five years of better data increased CEO confidence in marketing?
In this Sharp Cut, Marc and Vassilis unpack what happens when the things marketing can observe quietly become the things organizations value.
They trace the progression from visibility → accountability → optimization → observability, and ask whether attribution windows, platform dashboards and ROI have inadvertently trained marketers to optimize for short-term outcomes.
Using research from Boathouse, the Norwegian marketing industry and others, they explore why the same data can produce radically different conclusions depending on how it is framed.
They also tackle a harder question: who is responsible?
Is finance forcing marketing to think short-term? Or have marketers quietly accepted the measurement windows handed to them by platforms and brought those definitions of effectiveness into the boardroom?
The answer turns measurement into something much bigger: a leadership decision.
Because the moment you choose the window, you decide what value counts — and what value doesn't.
Chapters:
00:00 Marketing Has Never Been More Measurable
00:50 More Measurement, Same Confidence
02:14 Marketing Won the Seat but Lost the Argument
03:49 How Measurement Became Optimization
05:13 When What We Can Observe Becomes What Counts
05:30 The Fishing Net Problem
06:47 Where Leadership Enters the Measurement Debate
08:38 Are Marketers Responsible?
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Aucun classement récent disponible
08:43 When a measure becomes a target (Goodhart's Law)
09:09 Whodunit: motive and opportunity
11:21 The evidence: Facebook's own 2016 deck
12:45 Out of the costume: the doses we added ourselves
15:28 The Sport Chek war room18:16 Building a machine to move money faster
19:41 The P&G $200M cut, and why it fails our own test
20:49 The alibi that holds: same test, opposite answer
21:27 The click's replacement: AI shoppers
22:39 The verdict is yours
24:06 One warning before you turn anything off
Sources:
Allouah, A., Besbes, O., Figueroa, J. D., Kanoria, Y., & Kumar, A. (2026). What is your AI agent buying? Evaluation, biases, model dependence, and emerging implications of agentic e-commerce. In Proceedings of the ACM Web Conference 2026 (pp. 8697–8700). https://doi.org/10.1145/3774904.3792943
Blake, T., Nosko, C., & Tadelis, S. (2015). Consumer heterogeneity and paid search effectiveness: A large-scale field experiment. Econometrica, 83(1), 155–174. https://doi.org/10.3982/ECTA12423
Chan, D. X., Yuan, Y., Koehler, J., & Kumar, D. (2011). Incremental clicks: The impact of search advertising. Journal of Advertising Research, 51(4), 643–647. https://doi.org/10.2501/JAR-51-4-643-647
Golden, J., & Horton, J. J. (2021). The effects of search advertising on competitors: An experiment before a merger. Management Science, 67(1), 342–362.
Gordon, B. R., Zettelmeyer, F., Bhargava, N., & Chapsky, D. (2019). A comparison of approaches to advertising measurement: Evidence from big field experiments at Facebook. Marketing Science, 38(2), 193–225. https://doi.org/10.1287/mksc.2018.1135
Lewis, R. A., & Rao, J. M. (2015). The unfavorable economics of measuring the returns to advertising. The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 130(4), 1941–1973. https://doi.org/10.1093/qje/qjv023
Lysen, S. (2013). Incremental clicks impact of mobile search advertising. Google. https://research.google/pubs/incremental-clicks-impact-of-mobile-search-advertising/
Simonov, A., Nosko, C., & Rao, J. M. (2018). Competition and crowd-out for brand keywords in sponsored search. Marketing Science, 37(2), 200–215. https://doi.org/10.1287/mksc.2017.1065
The Procter & Gamble Company. (2017). Additional definitive proxy soliciting materials (DEFA14A). U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0000080424/000119312517299631/d464866ddefa14a.htm
Facebook. (2016). Everything competes with everything [Slide presentation].
GoTo.com, Inc. (1999). Form S-1 and Form 10-Q. To be reformatted as SEC legal sources.
Nielsen. (2009). NetEffect CPG home scanner panel meta-analysis of 200+ online campaigns. As reported in Facebook (2016).
Nielsen. (2015). BrandEffect meta-analysis of 478 online global campaigns, October 2014 to April 2015. As reported in Facebook (2016).
12:12 Story 3: QR codes, Andrew Tindall, and measurement theater
15:07 Marc's rebuttal: signal vs noise
18:01 Last click is dumb, so why do we default to it?
20:04 Story 4: Nobody owns demand
22:54 You don't own the four Ps, but stay close to them
25:08 Ad of the Week: Tubi, "Find Any Feeling For Free"
27:06 The gag that outran the brand
29:31 Coming up: Who Killed the Click, and Target Canada
Links:
Title: Lack of CEO understanding harming B2B brand building push
01:43 What Kind of Innovation Are We Actually Asking For?
02:24 Defining Innovation Before Starting the Work
02:53 An Idea Isn't Innovation Until It Creates Value
04:04 Are We Solving Before Understanding the Problem?
04:47 The Optimization Trap
06:42 Why Fear Kills Innovation
08:39 Why Incremental Innovation Feels Safer
10:04 Fear Creates Overanalysis
10:21 “How Might We?” vs. “We Should”
11:10 Fiona's Six I's of Innovation
11:40 Innovation as a Multiplicative System
12:53 Is Intuition the Seventh I?
13:20 How Marketing and Innovation Overlap
14:28 Should Marketing Be an Innovation Function?
17:39 Innovation Doesn't Happen Between Meetings
18:32 Are We Using AI for Efficiency or Growth?
19:48 Why AI Should Create Possibility
20:08 AI Increases the Need for Discernment
20:55 Final Thoughts
Why the best first step is simply defining the problem properly
If your organization wants innovation but struggles to actually get ideas into market, this episode is for you.
Enjoy the show!
Chapters:
00:00 Why Innovation Dies Before the Whiteboard
01:36 Meet Fiona Stevenson
02:16 From P&G to Innovation Consulting
04:07 Moving From Client Side to Consulting
05:41 The Febreze Innovation Story
09:09 Why Consumer Understanding Comes First
10:59 What Is Innovation, Really?
13:02 The Uber Opportunity Fiona Turned Down
14:24 Different Types of Innovation
16:23 Big Innovation Ambitions vs. Organizational Reality
17:44 Why Stakeholder Alignment Matters
20:16 The Innovation Charter
21:24 Fear and the Unknown
22:00 Why Past Data Can Mislead Innovation
23:48 Why Great Marketers Can Struggle With Innovation
25:29 Getting Innovation Out the Door
27:24 The Future Has No Data
28:04 Challenging Assumptions With First Principles
30:00 AI as a Tool for Building Evidence
32:00 AI, Prototyping and Creative Potential
32:51 AI Should Be an Input, Not the Output
34:15 “We Should” Is Not an Idea
36:03 Why “How Might We?” Changes the Conversation
37:39 Fiona’s Six I’s of Innovation
39:09 Insights, Inspiration & Ideation
40:28 Why Iteration Matters
41:53 Implementation and Death by a Thousand Cuts
42:18 Protecting the Idea’s DNA
42:45 Is Intuition the Seventh I?
45:05 Why Skipping Steps Kills Innovation
47:06 The Most Undervalued Stage
48:49 How Innovation Survives Budget Pressure
50:17 Why Innovation Can’t Be a Side Job
51:39 What to Do Monday Morning
53:48 Why Innovation Needs Champions
54:26 It’s Never Too Late to Redefine the Problem
55:41 Built for Breakthrough Resources
56:11 Where to Find Fiona
Link to the book:
Built for Breakthrough - https://www.builtforbreakthrough.com/
09:12 When Marketing Takes Credit for the Weather
11:16 The 35 Forces That Affect ROI
12:09 The Halo Effect
13:30 Same Data, Two Completely Different Answers
15:45 The Retail Number That Changes the Story
16:26 Why Every Channel Wants More Budget
17:57 Measuring Podcast Advertising With the Wrong Net
20:07 The Problem With the 95:5 Rule
21:46 Why ROI Can Mislead
24:06 How Cutting Spend Can Improve ROI
25:20 What Does “Return” Actually Mean?
27:03 When Long-Term Evidence Loses to the Quarter
28:23 Can Marketing Choose a Different Window?
31:29 Measurement Becomes a Leadership Problem
32:42 You Can Predict the Answer by Looking at the Net
34:07 Five Questions to Ask Before Measuring
35:00 What Marketing Can Learn From Finance
35:35 The Measurement Problem Is a Leadership Problem
35:59 What Comes Next: Discounted Cash Flow
Episode Sources:
Boathouse, Fifth Annual CEO Study on Marketing and the CMO, 150 US CEOs, fielded January 2026. Coverage via Marketing Dive, SmartBrief, CommPRO.
Gartner, May 2024, CMO survey on internal skepticism of marketing value.
Calgary Marketing Association and Stone-Olafson, 2024 ROI report, Alberta marketers, n=124.
Kapero, ANFO and the Norwegian Media Businesses’ Association, The Commercial Power of Brands in the Digital World, 13 Norwegian companies, 2024 data.
Podscribe, Conversion Rate by Podcast Player, more than 50 direct response brands, 30 daywindow.
Quatical, The 35 Factors That Affect Marketing ROI.
Rosenzweig, P. (2007). The Halo Effect. Free Press.
Eddington, A. S. (1939). The Philosophy of Physical Science. Cambridge University Press. The ichthyologist parable, told in summary. No direct quotation used.
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