Rooted and Routed Podcast – Détails, épisodes et analyse
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Rooted and Routed Podcast
Rooted and Routed Podcast
Fréquence : 1 épisode/10j. Total Éps: 36

Rooted and Routed is a storytelling podcast for anyone living between cultures, identities, and geographies.
Hosted by Sabiya Pathan Withoeck, each episode invites you into real, reflective conversations about belonging, resilience, migration, motherhood, and the emotional layers of life abroad.
This isn’t about relocation checklists or surface-level advice. It’s about the quieter moments, the ones that shape who we’re becoming.
Whether you're a global nomad, a returning expat, or someone navigating the in-between, this space is for you.
Because we don’t just belong to places.
We belong to stories.
To people.
To ourselves.
🎧 New episodes released weekly.
🔔 Subscribe to follow the journey — and maybe find a part of your own story along the way.
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Apple Podcasts
🇬🇧 Grande Bretagne - placesAndTravel
24/06/2025#86
Spotify
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See allScore global : 68%
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Between Cultures and Continents: What It Means to Be a Diplomatic Spouse - Anna Skorobogatowa
Saison 2 · Épisode 4
samedi 21 juin 2025 • Durée 42:37
What does it truly mean to build a life in constant motion, while raising children, adapting to new cultures, and supporting a partner who represents a country abroad?
In this deeply personal conversation, Anna Skorobogatowa, a diplomatic spouse of 23 years across 9 countries and 4 continents, shares the emotional, invisible, and often overlooked layers of life behind the scenes. From navigating motherhood in transition to redefining identity and partnership under constant change, Anna offers rare and honest insights into what it means to be the emotional anchor of a globally mobile family.
In this episode, we talk about:
- The shared realities between expat and diplomatic families
- Raising third-culture kids and navigating school systems across continents
- Emotional labor and identity shifts in the spouse role
- Marriage, partnership, and the impact of constant relocation
- Building community, finding purpose, and creating meaningful support systems
Whether you're a diplomatic spouse, an expat partner, or simply someone navigating a life shaped by movement, this episode reminds us that your story matters, and so do your struggles.
Tune in for a thoughtful, relatable, and affirming conversation.
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
Trust But Verify: Arnaud Luc on Parenting, Gen AI & Truth in Tech
Saison 2 · Épisode 3
vendredi 13 juin 2025 • Durée 42:20
What does it take to lead in tech, raise culturally grounded children, and embrace change across continents?
In this episode, Arnaud Luc—tech leader at Cambridge Mobile Telematics—shares his journey from the French countryside to winning global recognition at Apple’s WWDC and the Webby Awards. He unpacks the realities of working with GenAI, explains the difference between AI, machine learning, and LLMs in everyday language, and highlights how curiosity and flexibility became core to his leadership style.
He also reflects on parenting in a tech-savvy generation, the need for critical thinking in the age of AI, and why being “rooted” while staying adaptable is key to navigating cultural transitions and career growth.
Key topics covered:
- AI vs. GenAI vs. machine learning—what's the real difference?
- Using ChatGPT for math help—and why it sometimes fails
- Why leadership is about building bridges, not just writing code
- How cultural humility shapes global leadership
- From Montreal to Texas—language, food, and identity in transition
- Why embracing your heritage matters—even while integrating abroad
- How a mobile app can help save lives by improving driving behavior
Follow Arnaud Luc on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucasarn/
Full episode now streaming on all podcast platforms
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
Connecting Through Culture and Adventure: Josh Boyles’ India Experience
Saison 1 · Épisode 16
vendredi 3 janvier 2025 • Durée 35:51
First episode of 2025! In this episode we had the honor to have Josh Boyles, an American expat who has been living in Pune, India, for almost two years. Josh shares his inspiring journey of cultural immersion, his passion for outdoor activities, and his commitment to giving back to Indian society.
Key Highlights from the Episode:
1. Cultural Understanding: Josh talks about his early experiences with international cultures and how his curiosity led him to study French and ethnography, setting the foundation for his deep dive into India’s rich history and traditions.
2. Learning Indian Culture: He explains how understanding Hindu culture and reading The Indian Epics helped him connect with locals and gain insight into Indian festivals and traditions.
3. Cultural Surprises: Josh reflects on India’s unique time orientation and the unpredictability of the school calendar, which challenges personal holiday planning. He embraces the country’s ‘organized chaos’.
4. Outdoor Activities: As a certified ski instructor and rock climber, Josh continues his outdoor pursuits in India, discovering rock climbing spots in Pune and sharing his passion for trekking and climbing with his team.
5. Work-Life Balance: Josh highlights the importance of outdoor activities for team building and how taking colleagues on trekking or rock climbing trips improves relationships and productivity.
6. Expats and Locals Connecting: Josh discusses how sharing passions, like rock climbing, helps bridge the gap between expats and locals, fostering meaningful cultural exchanges.
If you’re curious about cultural adaptation, outdoor adventures, or how to navigate life as an expat in India, this episode is filled with insightful stories and practical tips.
Subscribe and Stay Rooted!
Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe to Rooted and Routed Podcast for more inspiring stories about expats and life abroad.
#ExpatLife #RootedAndRoutedPodcast
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
Year End REWIND Episode | ROOTED AND ROUTED PODCAST | HIGHLIGHTS of 2024
Saison 1 · Épisode 15
vendredi 27 décembre 2024 • Durée 10:47
====
Welcome to Part 2 of our Rooted and Routed Podcast 2024 recap! 🌟
This year has been an incredible journey of meaningful conversations, diverse perspectives, and impactful stories. In this special highlight reel, we had the pleasure of hosting guests from diverse professions, bringing even more versatility to our conversations and insights.
We expanded our focus on living abroad, connecting with guests whose work is deeply tied to the expat experience. From exploring the well-being aspects of expat life to meeting individuals who live and work across two different countries, we uncovered the potential of a nomadic lifestyle—where challenges can be reframed as opportunities for flexibility and freedom.
Your support, engagement, and encouragement have been the heart of this journey, and we couldn’t have done it without you. Thank you for being part of this vibrant community!
Dive into this recap to explore these fascinating stories and perspectives!
🌍🎧 Here’s to another year of growth, learning, and connection together. Wishing you a joyful holiday season and an inspiring start to 2025!
👉 Missed Part 1? Watch it here: https://youtu.be/tfr56IDTy2I
WATCH FULL EPISODES:
======
MARIE HÈLÉNE (Episode 9) - https://youtu.be/7UyAcosRFQ4
PAVI LUSTIG (Episode 14) - https://youtu.be/WgBe0D9IbwA
REBECCA THOMAS (Episode 13) - https://youtu.be/aVn6SmwrKbg
API MIRPURI (Episode 11) - https://youtu.be/SYn9dlu9IFo
LOU HENDERSON (Episode 12) - https://youtu.be/w5JVMPxK_NI
VEERLE BEELAN DA COSTA DAVID (Episode 10) - https://youtu.be/fs6lWf0YaWc
As 2024 comes to a close, let’s look back at the most inspiring moments, impactful stories, and unique perspectives from Rooted and Routed Podcast this year.
From navigating life abroad to celebrating personal growth and cultural connections, this recap showcases the best of our incredible journey together.Thank you for your support, engagement, and encouragement—it has been the heart of this podcast’s success.Wishing you a joyful holiday season and an inspiring start to 2025!
🎄✨ Let’s continue to grow, connect, and discover together. 🌍🎧
FOLLOW:
======
Follow Marie Hélène:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mhlg/
Website: https://bskagency.com
Follow Pavi Lustig: @pavilu
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pavilustig/
Follow Api Mirpuri:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apimirpuri
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/apimirpuri/
Website: https://reddotgreendot.com
Follow Lou Henderson:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/louhenderson2018/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ekbetiekcycle/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lou-henderson-026585292/
Website: https://www.ekbetiekcycle.org
Follow Veerle:
Youtube: @unpackbyveer
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/unpackbyveer/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/veerlebeelen/
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
CHRISTMAS Special Episode: HIGHLIGHTS of Rooted and Routed PODCAST 2024
Saison 1 · Épisode 15
samedi 21 décembre 2024 • Durée 12:13
As 2024 comes to a close, let’s look back at the most inspiring moments, impactful stories, and unique perspectives from Rooted and Routed Podcast this year.
From navigating life abroad to celebrating personal growth and cultural connections, this recap showcases the best of our incredible journey together.Thank you for your support, engagement, and encouragement—it has been the heart of this podcast’s success.Wishing you a joyful holiday season and an inspiring start to 2025!
🎄✨ Let’s continue to grow, connect, and discover together. 🌍🎧
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
Finding ‘Home’ as a Digital Nomad: Pavi Lustig’s Story
Saison 1 · Épisode 14
vendredi 13 décembre 2024 • Durée 41:19
In Part 2 of Rooted and Routed, Pavi Lustig dives deeper into his journey as a voice actor, digital nomad, and global citizen. With a multicultural upbringing and a love for travel, Pavi shares how his experiences have shaped his career, lifestyle, and personal growth.
What you’ll discover in this episode:
1. Reflections on cultural adaptation, multilingualism, and the evolving nomadic community.
2. How Pavi balances flexibility, stability, and mental well-being while traveling the world.
3. Insights into India as his “spiritual home” and its influence on his creative journey.
4. The art of building portable studios and working seamlessly across time zones.
5. Reflections on the evolving nomadic community and terms like “perpetual traveler.”
6. Funny anecdotes, including a motorcycle mishap in Goa and its life lessons.
7. A sneak peek into his autobiographical short film project inspired by India.
8. Tips for aspiring digital nomads on embracing flexibility and overcoming challenges.
This episode is a captivating blend of inspiration, practicality, and storytelling,
offering a masterclass in adaptability, creativity, and redefining career boundaries.
Don’t miss this inspiring conversation!
#Podcast #DigitalNomad #VoiceActor #RootedAndRoutedPodcast #GlobalCareers
#TravelAndWork #CreativeJourney
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
Berlin to Goa and Everywhere in Between: Pavi’s Life as a Digital Nomad | Pavi Lustig | Part 1
Saison 1 · Épisode 14
vendredi 6 décembre 2024 • Durée 35:53
#rootedandroutedpodcast #voiceover
🎙️ Meet Pavi Lustig, a voice actor, digital vomad (Vomad - Voice Over Nomad), and filmmaker who has worked with iconic brands like Apple, Netflix, Amazon, and BMW. In this episode of Rooted and Routed Podcast, Pavi shares his incredible journey—from a multicultural upbringing to crafting a unique career that spans continents and industries.
🌟 What you’ll discover in this episode:
• How Pavi’s fascinating background shaped his career in voiceover and audio engineering.
• His transition from audio engineering to voice acting and the evolution of his craft.
• The story behind his award-winning short film, Enfield is Prayer: Mystery of the Family Library.
• Insights into the versatility of voiceover work and why ‘the right voice’ matters more than a ‘good voice.’
• Behind-the-scenes stories of voicing for global brands and navigating diverse client needs.
• The challenges and rewards of balancing a nomadic lifestyle with a demanding career.
• Fun anecdotes, including creating DIY recording studios in hotels and adapting to different environments.
• The shift in advertising trends toward more conversational, human styles.
Pavi’s story is a masterclass in creativity, resilience, and finding success in unexpected places. Whether you’re curious about digital nomadism, voice acting, or creative careers, this episode is filled with inspiration and actionable insights!
🔗 Watch now, and stay tuned for part two to dive even deeper into the life of a traveling voice artist.
👉 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for updates on future episodes!
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
From Burnout to Sabbaticals: Why 70% of Employees Seek a Better Way Forward | Part 2 | Rebecca Thomas
Saison 1 · Épisode 13
vendredi 29 novembre 2024 • Durée 21:43
How do you navigate the pressure to return to work after a career break or sabbatical? In Part 2 of Rebecca’s story, we discuss:
Overcoming fears and articulating the value of your sabbatical experience.
How burnout has led to a fourfold increase in sabbaticals globally.
The importance of integrating lessons learned during a break into your professional life.
Redefining balance and success through visualization and planning.
Rebecca’s unique approach to helping individuals craft a no-regrets future.
Don’t miss this inspiring conversation packed with actionable insights for those navigating career transitions or seeking a meaningful sabbatical.
Watch now and take the first step toward redefining your future!
#RootedAndRoutedPodcast #Sabbaticals #CareerBreaks #BurnoutRecovery #LifeDesign #CoachingJourney
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
Are Career Breaks Holding You Back or Pushing You Forward?
Saison 1 · Épisode 13
samedi 23 novembre 2024 • Durée 25:43
Meet Rebecca, a coach who empowers individuals through pivotal moments of transition in their personal and professional lives. From career breaks to sabbaticals, Rebecca specializes in helping people at crossroads gain clarity and invest in a future version of themselves that they can be proud of.
Through personalized coaching and her signature career transition program, Rebecca provides a supportive and nurturing environment to explore your values, strengths, and goals. Her work is about redefining what success means to you, designing your next chapter, and making it a reality. She introduces the Japanese concept of Ikigai and shares how breaking free from limiting beliefs and societal expectations can create new opportunities, even in the face of challenges like visa restrictions for expat spouses.
In this episode of Rooted and Routed, Rebecca shares her journey and dives into topics like:
What inspired her to focus on career transitions and redefining success.
Helping clients uncover their unique values and turn challenges into opportunities.
Strategies for designing a “future self” that aligns with personal goals and passions.
A real-life success story of helping someone find balance and direction.
Advice for those feeling overwhelmed by choices or unsure of their next steps.
Rebecca’s unique perspective combines her love for coaching and living a balanced life surrounded by sunshine and loved ones.
Tune in for inspiration and tools to create a life you love!
Like, comment, and subscribe for more!
#RootedAndRoutedPodcast #LifeTransitions #Coaching #CareerBreaks #PersonalGrowth
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.
What I Learned from EK BETI EK CYCLE Will CHANGE the Way You Think About RURAL INDIAN GIRLS
Saison 1 · Épisode 12
dimanche 17 novembre 2024 • Durée 34:03
#rootedandroutedpodcast #ekbetiekcycle
In this heartfelt episode, Lou Henderson, a UK expat in Pune, shares the inspiring story of her involvement with Ek Beti Ek Cycle, an NGO founded by Indian triathlete Pragnya Mohan. Through this initiative, Lou helps provide bicycles to girls in rural Gujarat, empowering them to continue their education despite challenging transport barriers.
Lou reflects on the overwhelming experience of adapting to India’s vibrant culture, diverse languages, and community-driven projects. She also shares the highs and lows of expat life, from building impactful volunteer projects with local students to managing family connections across continents. With a passion for giving back and making a difference, Lou and the Ek Beti Ek Cycle team are paving the way for sustainable impact in India.
🔔 Tune in to hear Lou’s journey of transformation, cultural adaptation, and meaningful change abroad.
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🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow Lou Henderson:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/louhenderson2018/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ekbetiekcycle/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lou-henderson-026585292/
Website: https://www.ekbetiekcycle.org
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here!
🎧 Available now on:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0SIZRiApXjy4UzKVP1Yrzv
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1755695962
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9fdd33e4-4e7a-4be7-b7c6-9f2ce76c5580/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org/podcast/6956558
Podcast Addict: https://podcastaddict.com/podcast/rooted-and-routed-podcast/5204852
Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/rooted-and-routed-podcast-5782163
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/vbrcdo35
Player FM: https://player.fm/series/rooted-and-routed-podcast
Follow us: https://rootedandrouted.com
Join us and dive into the fascinating world of expat life. Your journey towards connection, culture, and community starts here.






