Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper help you lead teams, build your work culture, and improve relationships with CliftonStrengths A.K.A StrengthsFinder.
The "Lead Through Strengths" podcast was created for you if you're ready to stop taking the "path of most resistance" at work and in life.
It sounds silly, yet it happens all the time when people get focused on fixing their weaknesses. It doesn't have to be so hard. Stop focusing on what's broken about you.
Lisa Cummings, one host, is a Gallup Certified Strengths Performance Coach, so she brings you a wealth of corporate wisdom, combined with Gallup research. She's also certified by the Life Coach School and has an MBA, so she brings a good combo of business and coaching.
Brea Roper, your other host, is also a Gallup Certified Strengths Coach. She is incredible at helping you cast a vision for your future - using your natural talents. She's especially talented at leading personal retreats in Kansas City, MO (and she will travel).
Many episodes are educational Q&A from our corporate clients. They're usually questions we get in our StrengthsFinder corporate workshops. Over 34 Million people have taken the CliftonStrengths assessment.
With this show, you'll learn how to find your strengths and put them to work. If you manage a team, you'll hear ideas for leading your so your colleagues can come to work feeling more energized and engaged.
We publish by season.
Season 1: Career Q&A
Season 2: Strengths Interviews
Season 3: StrengthsFinder Q&A (also known as CliftonStrengths assessment)
Season 4: Team Building 12 Week Strengths Challenge
Season 5: One StrengthsFinder Talent Theme Per Week: Career Branding Adjectives for your personal brand, red flag situations for that talent theme, and action items to put that talent to use
Season 6: Nine Core Concepts of Strengths
Season 7: Facilitator Interviews (because, who needs Lisa only - we have lots of other great StrengthsFinder trainers for you)
Season 8: CliftonStrengths Customer Q&A
Season 9: The Foundations of Strengths and Mindset
Season 10: Coach the Coach - Brea and Lisa help you build your independent coaching practice, or implement strengths into your work culture
There's a lot of confusion about the name of the assessment because it is difficult to spell (or put the singular/plural in the right spot), and it has changed names. All of these are the same survey tool: StrengthsFinder 2.0, StrengthsFinders, StrengthFinders, StrengthFinder, StrengthsFinder, Clifton Strengths, CliftonStrengths, Clifton StrengthsFinder.
Despite the difficulty with the word, the content all points to Strengths Based Development and leadership using StrengthsFinder with your team.
In addition: here are some hot topic areas covered by audience questions so far:
Getting promoted;
discovering your strengths;
differentiating yourself;
coaching and feedback;
marketing, branding, and promoting yourself;
getting unstuck;
developing your direct reports;
noticing what works on your team;
connecting and networking;
personal leadership;
politics and perceptions at the office;
getting viewed as an A player;
building trust and influence at work or in your industry;
being a people-leader that you want to be, even when you're short on time;
how to get your creative mojo back;
understanding how your EQ (emotional intelligence) is more important than your IQ at work;
stuff you didn't learn in business school that's hurting your career; getting unstuck and un-trapped;
being a better leader;
solving problems;
getting past confusion;
aligning your mind, body, and purpose in life;
managing major life transitions;
and taking a minute to reflect on what you really want in life
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In today's episode, we dive into the juicy topic of being a "bad boss" to ourselves as entrepreneurs. Isn’t it funny how some of the very behaviors that made us decide to stop working for a bad boss, are often some of the same behaviors we do to ourselves. Things like overworking, neglecting self-care, not setting boundaries, working unreasonable hours, and more. Together, we explore how these bad boss behaviors can lead to burnout and resentment,
So, if you’re ready to stop being a bad boss to yourself and start thriving in your entrepreneurial journey, this episode is packed with insights and encouragement just for you!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.
Takeaways
Here are three key takeaways from our conversation:
The Importance of Boundaries One of the biggest traps we fall into as entrepreneurs is the lack of boundaries. Whether it's working unreasonable hours or failing to take time off, we often push ourselves to the limit. In the episode, we discuss how setting clear boundaries (like blocking off time for personal commitments or vacations) can actually enhance our productivity and well-being. Remember, it's not just about working hard, it's about working smart and honoring your own needs.
Understanding Your Value Many of us struggle with pricing our services appropriately, often undercharging out of fear that clients won't pay for what we offer. We emphasize the importance of recognizing your worth and understanding the market value of your skills. By doing your research and setting fair prices, you not only protect your profits but also prevent burnout and resentment. Don’t be afraid to charge what you’re worth!
The Power of Community Navigating the entrepreneurial landscape can be daunting, but you don’t have to do it alone. We highlight the significance of surrounding yourself with a supportive community. Whether it’s through mentorship, networking, or joining groups like Tools for Coaches, having a network can provide you with insights, accountability, and encouragement. Sharing experiences and learning from others can help you avoid common pitfalls and thrive in your business.
Take Action
Set Boundaries for Work Hours: Establish clear boundaries around your work hours to prevent burnout. Consider blocking off specific times for work, personal activities, and rest to maintain a healthy work-life balance.
Implement a PTO Policy: Schedule regular time off by blocking out vacation weeks in advance. Aim for at least one week per quarter to ensure you take breaks and recharge, even if you don’t have immediate plans.
Time Block for Tasks: Create a structured schedule by time blocking for different types of work (e.g., emails, client calls, instructional design). This will help you manage your time effectively and ensure you allocate enough time for all necessary tasks.
Evaluate Pricing Strategies: Reflect on your pricing model to ensure it reflects the value of your services. Research market rates and consider charging more for customized offerings to avoid burnout and resentment.
Seek Community and Mentorship: Surround yourself with a supportive community or mentors who can provide guidance and share their experiences. Engage in discussions about challenges and solutions to avoid common pitfalls in entrepreneurship.
🎧If you're ready to stop being a bad boss to yourself and start building a business that aligns with your values and goals, tune in to this episode! Let’s embrace the journey together and create a fulfilling entrepreneurial experience.
💬We’d love to hear your thoughts! How do you ensure you’re being a good boss to yourself? Share your experiences in the comments below!
Lisa: And today, oh, this song is on my mind. Do you remember that song? Where it says buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh. Yeah.
Brea: Yes, of course I do. And you did that so well. Do it again.
Lisa: Well, that was me for a lot of years of my coaching, training, speaking business being a bad to the bone, a bad boss to yourself. I am so guilty or was so guilty.
Brea: A bad boss to yourself. Yes. Okay. This is juicy. You know, I love a juicy topic. This is a juicy one.
Lisa: Yeah. Well, let's talk about what brings us into wanting to be entrepreneurs and then how, well, for me, I know I have the stories to tell and the lessons to tell about the things that were turning it into bad boss. So if I start off and say, I didn't have bad bosses in corporate. I had great bosses, great leaders. I had a really good experience. So I didn't have the reference point of saying, I don't want to be this terrible person. And so that's why I'm leaving. I wasn't running from that. I was running toward this dream. Oh, now I've got a Tom Petty song in my head. Running down a dream. OK, no, let's stop. I've got too many songs.
Brea: Chili's, baby, baby, baby back ribs. That's what I have in my head. Now you've got to turn it into bad, bad, bad boss.
Lisa: That's so fun. Anyway, yeah, I was totally running down that dream. It was like freedom. I would see other people doing it and I would think, this is so cool. I could take the work that I'm paying vendors to do. I just saw this vision, like if I could be that vendor, I could have this amazing life doing exactly the work that I love. It will be so inspirational and soul-filling because the work is really cool. I'll have total freedom and flexibility with my time. I can work fewer hours. I think it's going to just be so amazing. So I really set up this dream life vision and then quickly out of fear, now that I have a rear view mirror, I worked myself into not that dream because I was so unreasonable as a boss to myself. So I was a total bad boss to myself. What about you? What attracted you to do your own thing?
Brea: Yeah. A huge part of my story was, I'm not going to say I had bad bosses, but I am going to say There are a lot of people who are elevated into leadership positions because they were really great at their job. at the lower level, you know, for example, maybe they were just a killer salesman. And now all of a sudden, they're a manager of people. And that's not even the same job. And I think we've actually talked about that on the podcast before, and how just bogus that is that we're expecting, you know, great leaders to emerge from people who were showing excellence in something else. And so I have worked for and with people who were not given any training or any support to be a leader and didn't know how to handle me. And I'm a lot. And I think maybe those who are listening with a lot of strong, influencing themes like me, I'm not the cookie cutter, let's do it like it's always been done. Just close your mouth and do the work. I can't work like that. I bring new ideas and question everything. And leaders didn't know what to do with that. And so I really did get into this business, especially strengths to help be a solution, to help leaders learn how to lead the people they have. instead of just trying to put everybody into the same little mold. So a different starting place, but yeah, great conversation. I'm excited to dive in. Okay, nice.
Lisa: And you made me think that our thread is so tied together in that it's like when people get promoted into their incompetence. When I left and went out on my own and didn't know how to be an entrepreneur, I had business acumen. I was promoted into incompetence as far as being able to manage myself and my time and create, run, grow a business. I didn't really get all of it so I had some areas of high incompetence and that's why I was a bad boss to myself.
Brea: Yeah, and maybe this is where we start is, you know, there are very, very few people out there who can do all the things with excellence. We've talked about that a little bit in our BP10 episode, you know, how there are certain talents and certain skills that every business owner needs, and no one person has them all.
Lisa: Yeah, well, let me give a real-life tale of being a bad boss to myself under one category, which would be just unreasonable work hours. And one version of that is I had this business strategy. I worked to work with Fortune 500 talent development teams, leadership development teams. That was all great. Got that. So then, I have clients who have people all over the world, and they want to do sessions and workshops, usually virtual, because that was my specialty, and they would want to break up a session, and we would do them basically on the same day, and here's how it would work. I would have a 9 a.m. session, and that would be with Americas and EMEA, so if you're not from corporate or a place where they do these abbreviations, EMEA is Europe, Middle East, Africa, And then I would do a 9 p.m. session with India, APJ, APJ is Asia Pacific, Japan. So I would be up, prepared, showered, ready to go, sound check, so pretty early days, starting with the 9 a.m. Then I would deliver at 9 p.m., depending on time changes, sometimes it was 10 or 11, or depending on the client. could be a 10 or 11 p.m. start. So I would be finishing up as late as 1 a.m. after having gotten up at 5 a.m. and I would do these repeatedly. It wouldn't just be like an occasional thing. I would do them over and over and that would be these long, long days. And I just thought, I mean, it's the same workshop. We're trying to deliver it on the same day-ish. And I just did it unthinking about the consequence to my body and my sleep and the circadian rhythm and all these things that now later, I realized I really wrecked it, but I didn't know then. I just thought, yeah, I stay up late once in a while. Once a week I do these, big deal. And it was a big deal, but didn't realize I was being such a bad boss to myself with those decisions.
Brea: Yes, totally. It does add up over time, right? It's so funny because for me, it's exactly the opposite. I love a 9 a.m. and a 9 p.m. I often am working late at night. 9 p.m. to midnight is kind of a sweet spot for editing podcasts or emails or some creative things. So I don't mind the unreasonable work hours. But for me, where I fall into the trap is just working all the time, not having boundaries. So one of the things that attracted me to entrepreneurship is this concept of time freedom, you know, being able to just go to a kid's soccer game or a recital or something during the day that I wouldn't be able to if I was in an office 9 to 5 and I had to be there, right? So if I'm working at 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. I have to make sure that I'm taking advantage of the time freedom that I've given myself.
Lisa: It's like the good boss to yourself is taking that time and making them non-work hours. The bad boss to yourself would be go, go, go and just fill the middle with the emails and the mundane and fill it in and then it becomes a, well, more than 12 hour workday. Maybe it became a 16 hour workday, but the difference could be a nap in the middle of the day, the soccer game and all of those things. And you're still spending those same hours awake, but it's what you're doing with them consciously.
Brea: How do you know me so well? You know that I love to nap. I mean, come on, naps are a key part of a long day, you know, is taking a little break, a little siesta. Yes. And to be honest, I don't feel guilty about any of that at all. Unreasonable work hours doesn't resonate with me, but working more hours than ever totally resonates. Whatever your time hangup is, make sure that you're being a good boss to yourself by honoring your own needs, your own talents, and balancing the work with life.
Lisa: Right. Yeah, all of mine are some version of time. Like the next one that I thought of was PTO policy. So if you're an employee somewhere, you have PTO. And when you have PTO, you actually think about booking out vacation time. And I just allowed myself to forget about the concept of PTO. And in the early five years of my business, in the front end, I was so booked out. I would be booked out for nine months. So if anybody wanted to get on my calendar for anything, it would literally be like, well, I have a speech that week, or I have a training that week, I want to be in this city that week, I want to be in another city that week. And if we were going to take a vacation, we'd have to think of it nine months in advance. So that is another area of bad boss to yourself, where on one hand, you think you're being good because I was like, Yeah, I'm booking myself out and I was excited because I could generate enough business to be booked out that far But then the downside was what about my family? What about friends? What about my own breaks? I just didn't have them and one day I was talking to a friend about it Tammy if you're listening shout out she was like Lisa It's so easy. All you have to do is block of one week per quarter. And that's it. Just one week per quarter. Then you give yourself four weeks of time. Worst case, if you don't want the time off or you don't want the vacation, don't take it. But otherwise, take it. And if a client wants to book a speech and it's a really cool opportunity, then just move the week to another week. But if you don't block the time out, you'll never get the time. And it was really cool. I started doing it and it made everything work. Now, I am way on the other side of it now. I take lots of time off. I work three-day work weeks. I have a whole different thing because I've figured out how to be a super cool boss to myself nowadays. But it was terrible. So that was one that I thought, gosh, that would be a really good lesson for someone new who is building momentum to just do that in advance. Even if you don't have any bookings yet and you're new to building a business, just start doing it as a habit. Because what's the worst case of that? Just work during that time if you want to.
Brea: Yeah, I love that. And the other side of that is if it's on the calendar and you've got a trip to Europe planned and it's coming up and you aren't working like that's a little fire under your behind to find some work, get some revenue coming in. It's also interesting, this concept of boundaries, putting a PTO on the calendar, that's a boundary. You're saying, I'm prioritizing this. There's a literal boundary that you're drawing on the calendar to block off the time for that. So if you're listening, think about other boundaries that you need for yourself.
Lisa: I'm curious, how did you know some of the boundaries early on? I don't know how I would know until I made the mistakes. I would do three or four virtual sessions in a day because I was like, oh, this is so efficient. I love being efficient and I only have to do my hair and makeup one time. And then I can take the next day to do more admin stuff. So I would get like adrenaline dump after adrenaline dump. It was not good for my body to do it that way. But I didn't realize until I did it enough to go, Oh, I need some boundaries on how many a day I'll do. And then another one, is I would do about 100 events a year. And if you think about travel events, there's a fly day, there's the event day, and then there's a fly day. So if you do 100 events times three, because it's three days to do an event, that is 300 days. Then you want to add on some vacation days, and then add your 52 weekends in there. Basically, that's every day. So then, when do you do prospect calls? When do you do instructional design? When do you answer emails? Do you just cram it in even more? I did. I was a terrible boss to myself in that way. So I think, like, I'm curious about you and your boundaries. How did you know what your boundaries needed to be before you were ever fully booked?
Brea: I didn't know. I didn't know anything. I didn't even know anything. I mean, I think I've said this on this podcast before. I didn't even know that I wanted to own my own business. I literally just fell into it because I didn't have a job and I just started like, doing what I could to make money. And now here I am nine years later. So that's a bad boss, OK, is not even knowing that you're running a business. Yeah. So I learned as I went and I often learned the hard way, which I think is why I love these episodes on helping other coaches to not make the same mistakes. For me, the boundaries that I've learned I needed were around customization. So a trap that I would fall into and still do, if I'm totally honest, I need to continue to do better, is to not over customize everything. Because I love that. I love it so much. So I learned to set the boundary of charging more for those custom, bespoke, premium experiences, which is helpful. But also, I just have such a big heart for people, and my little individualization will over-customize literally everything if I'm not careful. So setting those boundaries is really important. I think you mentioned earlier working or operating out of fear. That's a general caution when we're looking at how are we a bad boss to ourselves. Oftentimes, being a bad boss comes from being afraid. So you're afraid that the customers won't come, you know, the work won't come. And so you take anything given to you, even if it's something you've never delivered before, you don't know anything about it. And You're like, sure, I can do that. And then you spend way too much time creating something that you only use once and not charging enough for it. So setting boundaries around where I want to spend my time. Not just the time on the calendar saying this is admin time, this is creative time, and this is delivery time, but boundaries around what do I want to offer? And that took time for me to figure out. I don't know that I would know that ahead of time, unless maybe someone else who was in L&D or are something, something adjacent and then became their own boss. Maybe they would have a better idea, but I had no idea.
Lisa: Yeah, I came from that background and I had no idea because I knew how to block out time for instructional design, for a needs assessment. I knew those parts of the work, but then how many minutes I would need to be in QuickBooks, or calling the accountant, or managing a procurement process, or talking to the insurance company. I mean, all of those kind of things that I had an experience before. I did not block time out. And that is how I figured it out eventually. I'm still figuring it out, let's be honest. But I did get a lot closer by time blocking. And I started doing things like, what amount of time a day do I spend on email? OK, about an hour. And sometimes emails create action items. So I've got to leave some space for that. So I started putting, OK, they create about this many action items. So I'm going to put hold customer work. And I'm going to block. a couple hour chunk twice a week, and then I'm going to put one hour a day for email, and then I'm going to put 30 minutes for lunch so I can actually eat. I just tried to look at what the average week had for me that I hadn't really thought of or didn't want to plan for, because planning for design time, that was easy. I would just be like, block one day, and I can get this deck developed. I really just had a good feel for that, whereas these other elements, I didn't have a feel for it. And I didn't want to be in those moments like I wanted to be in a needs assessment or instructional design or making a deck. So I started time blocking. And then I had this massive realization that was whoa, there aren't very many minutes left. If you actually put, you know, if you want to work a regular kind of, say you want to work a nine to five kind of time block, and then you fill all those things in, where, where do you even have time? And then you add in delivery and flying. if you're on the road and that gets really slim and that is where I realized I just had to say no. I was so good at saying yes to things and that's not as fun for me to say no. It still isn't as fun to say no but that is the the magic sauce. And I still struggle with it every day because the more you book and the more you get seen in an industry, the more people ask for things from you. And some of those are really great things. You want to be in a peer relationship. You want to have a media appearance. You want to talk with clients about ideas. You want to do a bunch of things, but you realize you have to say no to a lot or you'll never have time for you and the whole oxygen mask theory comes into play.
Brea: Yep, totally. So the thread, common theme that I'm hearing is this idea of structure. We need structure. Too much structure, maybe, is what I'm hearing from your early days. Or the wrong kind of structure, not knowing how much time to block for certain things. Too much structure might equal no freedom. which is bad boss, right? That's not why we went into business for ourselves. But also the other extreme is no structure. No structure is no freedom as well, because there's wasted time and decision fatigue. So finding that median that works for you. Maybe it's a nine to five workday. Maybe it's a nap in the afternoon and a 9 a.m. and a 9 p.m. But whatever works for you, making sure that there is some kind of structure, some kind of boundary, some kind of sandbox to play in to allow the freedom that you're looking for. It's such a trap to believe that structure constricts or restricts our freedoms. There's so much science that proves when we have at least some boundaries, when we have a sandbox of plan, we can get so much more creative than if we have all the things to do, then we end up doing nothing or we end up just spinning our wheels. going insane.
Lisa: Yeah, constraint can give you the freedom. And it's scary to honor the constraint. But you definitely have the theories that everyone has heard of, like the work expands to the time allowed. So you have simple things like if I give myself three hours to make this deck, will it be any better than the one hour? Well, maybe marginally, but if I said, I'm going to buckle down, I only have one hour to do this, boom, I'm still going to have a good product. And then I get two hours back in my day that I would have spent over maximizing. And then on a bigger picture, if you back into the dreams, when I decided a few years ago to have three-day work weeks, it sounded so impossible. But then I just blocked off Monday and Friday and said, well, what does it have to look like to make it possible? and being able to say things to a client that I was so afraid of. The words, oh, I'm already booked there. Let's look at next week. Those are so easy to say. I don't have to say, oh, I take off Fridays to get a massage. I don't have to say those words. I just have to say, I'm booked already on Friday. Let's look into next week. And it's fine. Everything's fine.
Brea: Yep. And people like to work with winners. So if you are available every minute of every day, what they might see is, wow, like she's not doing anything. She's desperate for work. And they're busy too. They are busy too. This actually just happened yesterday. I got an inquiry from someone that I didn't know. They found me online and went to my website and scheduled a call. So yay, process works, right? Yay, inbound. Yay, inbound. But it wasn't until my next available on my Calendly, which was a few days away. And when her inquiry came in, I happened to be available. And I just texted her and I said, Hey, super excited to meet with you, just wondering if you happen to be free now. And she called me and we talked and it's looking really good. So I think structure is good and it's okay to be flexible in the moment. You know, I gave her that option that said, Hey, if you want to talk now, we can. And she took it and now we're moving forward.
Lisa: And what a cool way, like I just think of that and go, ooh, that could be an example of being a good boss to yourself. And that what if you really had something else in mind for Thursday and you could find cracks in the week. You always talk about the cracks in your day. And then this could be a crack in the week where you're like, ooh, if I filled this one in, I'm going to free myself up to do this other thing on Thursday.
Brea: Totally. And it was it was better for me because my energy was at a high. I had just delivered something really great. I had just had a great coaching call in the morning. So I was like, I was feeling it. I was feeling strengths. I was feeling myself. And that came through in the sales call several times. She said, oh, my gosh, I can just tell how much you love your work. And isn't that what we want? Is that true authenticity? So knowing my own talents, knowing that my energy comes from those wins, I leaned in and I offered to meet with her then because I knew I would be better on the call. She didn't have to say yes, I wasn't forcing her to change the schedule, but she did and that worked out for both of us, you know? So knowing yourself is just really, really important. Yeah. Another thing is also with boundaries and with fear, the trap of charging too little because we're afraid that people won't pay for what we have to offer. Not only does it hurt our profits, but it also leads to so much burnout and maybe even resentment. And that's something that I found really early on. I didn't know what the market would handle as far as pricing went, and I didn't really know what I wanted to value my time for. And so that was something that I had to learn the hard way. But I think if I had put some thought into it, put some research into it, I could have figured that out without years of learning the hard way and struggling with the burnout and the resentment that that brought.
Lisa: Yeah. Oh, that's a really good one because you basically you're being a bad boss to yourself by not thinking of it as a business. If you're thinking of it as you as a freelancer doing hourly rate, you're going to make really different decisions versus how you would price it if you were like, oh, they want to do four pre-event calls, not just one. Oh, they're going to ask me to take my deck and put it into their brand template. oh, they're going to send me through a procurement process that requires 40 hours on the phone with their call center, and they only happen to be available in India time zone, and things that you wouldn't expect because you don't know at the beginning, or maybe you need to hire a team to deliver because the time zones are all over the place, and you have no margin for that if you're building it like an hourly freelancer, not like a business owner. And it's a way that people are often bad bosses to themselves just out of naivete. But like you said, if you have people around you, if you have mentors around you, if you ask the questions, you can really be a good boss to yourself by thinking ahead and surrounding yourself with a community of people who have been there and done that so that you don't walk the same mistakes.
Brea: Yes. Yes, I know you probably want to land the plane. So I'll give my closing thought first. My closing thought is scaling the wrong thing, growing something that you don't enjoy, continuing to offer something that has worked, that has brought in money, but not because you like it or not because you want to continue offering it. Gosh, Doesn't that happen when we're working for someone else? We're given tasks all the time and expectations, and we just kind of have to grumble our way through it. And we do that to ourselves in our own business as well. And you don't have to. You don't have to do that. I talk to so many coaches who ask me, what should I offer? What should my offering be? What should my business model be? What should I? And you are the only one that can answer those questions for yourself. You have to make sure that you're setting things up in a way that you want to go to work every day. You want to sell in casual conversations in the elevator and also informal networking opportunities and in a formal sales call. You have to be excited about what you're doing. Don't keep doing things just because they're bringing in profit. If it's not really lighting you up, then figure out something else. Scale your business another way. You don't have to scale it based on what other people are telling you to do or what's working for other people.
Lisa: Yes, and I'll jump on the theme of scaling and say where I know I went wrong and I was a total bad boss to myself, was not thinking about the scale of labor. And I ate into that with my personal hours as the only solution I really knew how to do at the beginning. And if I had mentors and a community and people who had been there before I went there, I think instead of me just celebrating, Oh, look how much I'm growing. Oh, look how many clients I'm getting, I would have realized, Oh, my gosh, I'm about to step in a big pile of life poo because of how much I'm wearing myself out. So it's actually why, one of the reasons I created Tools for Coaches. So if you're listening, and you've been hearing me talk about the tools and templates inside of Tools for Coaches, there's also a community out there and there's mentorship. And part of the beauty of that group is being able to ask, like, what do you all do to prevent this? Or what do you all do to get in front of that? And that's part of that membership that I run. So leadthroughstrengths.com slash Tools for Coaches, if you want to check that out. It's a great place to catch these problems, like being a bad boss to yourself before you commit them.
Brea: Love it. Yes. And same for me. I mean, having people around me, having community is just essential for my happiness and for my success. So I think that's why I've been really itching to get this podcast community together. I want to talk to you guys about these episodes. If anything is resonating with you, come talk with other podcast listeners. Let's talk about what's working for you, what questions you have, what's not working for you, share that community, and then put it to work. Let's build your business. You know, we had our first meeting this week and it was so awesome. So it's BreaRoper.com/leadthroughstrengths. Can't wait to see you.
Lisa: Boom. No more bad to the bone.
Brea: Now we can get our baby back, baby back, baby back ribs.
In today's episode, we dive deep into a topic that many coaches struggle with: finding clients. If prospecting makes you want to run and hide…don’t worry. We’ve got you!
Listen in as we share some strategies that have worked for us, so you can make them work for you. Plus, we sprinkle in some creative ideas on how to make yourself visible and approachable in everyday situations. You know, just because we’re fun like that.
If you’re ready to transform your prospecting game, and maybe even have a little fun along the way, this episode is just for you!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.
Takeaways
● Throw Away the Rule Book 📚 Contrary to what all the marketing gurus out there will tell you, there is no one-size-fits-all approach! Instead, focus on leveraging your unique strengths. Whether it's through storytelling, networking, or email marketing, find what resonates with you and use it to connect with potential clients. Remember, authenticity is key!
How Low Ticket Offers Can Help Your Independent Coaching Practice
Saison 10 · Épisode 174
dimanche 22 juin 2025 • Durée 27:57
In this episode, Lisa and Brea explore the phenomenon of low ticket offers and how they can be a game-changer for your business. While high ticket items often steal the spotlight, we believe that low ticket offers have their own unique magic that can help you build relationships and grow your business.
Plus, we have a special invitation for you! Make sure to listen to the end for an exciting new opportunity to connect with other listeners, ask questions, and get support as you implement what you learn.
Let’s unlock the potential of low ticket offers together!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.
Takeaways on Using Low Ticket Offers In an Independent Coaching Practice
The power of the no-brainer factor. Low ticket is a strategy for creating offers that your audience can’t resist, making it easy for them to say "yes!"
● By offering low ticket items, you can convert freebie seekers into paying customers. This shift not only establishes a business relationship but also increases the likelihood of repeat purchases in the future.
Lumpy Revenue - Does Your Coaching Practice Feel Up and Down?
Saison 10 · Épisode 173
dimanche 8 juin 2025 • Durée 26:29
Lumpy cash flow.
Unpredictable income.
Feast or famine.
If you own your own coaching business, you’ve probably ridden the revenue rollercoaster a time or two. Scary for some, and exciting for others. Either way, this episode is for you! Join us as we explore strategies to smooth out the lumps and create stability in your cash flow, OR learn how to lean into the dips and curves so you can, dare we say, enjoy the bumpy ride!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.
Starting a New Coaching Business - The Backstory
Saison 10 · Épisode 172
dimanche 25 mai 2025 • Durée 33:52
What do math dreaming, crowdfunding, and Sunday night heart palpitations all have in common? You’ll have to tune in to find out! 😀
Join us for some real talk about the common fears and hesitations many aspiring coaches face when starting their business, like feeling unprepared or overwhelmed by the need for a perfect plan. But fear not! You’ll be encouraged to embrace the messiness of starting out, and reminded that it’s okay to pivot and change your business model as you grow.
So, whether you're in the dreaming phase or already knee-deep in your entrepreneurial journey, this episode is packed with insights, encouragement, and a few laughs to help you navigate your own path. Join us as we explore the ups and downs of starting a coaching practice. Let’s celebrate the beauty of building a business that aligns with who you are!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our membership.
Selling to Corporate Clients - Coaching, Training, and Speaking Services
Saison 10 · Épisode 171
dimanche 11 mai 2025 • Durée 30:06
Selling to corporate clients can be exciting, and sometimes daunting. And everyone wants to know…what’s the secret sauce?
From the thrill of landing big contracts to the unexpected surprises that come with corporate red tape, we cover it all. You’ll hear about the challenges of finding the right decision-makers, the complexities of procurement processes, and the importance of pricing your services appropriately to account for those hidden costs.
We also discuss the potential rewards of working with corporate clients, like the opportunity for repeat business and the chance to make a significant impact on a large scale. Plus, we share tips on how to leverage your unique strengths and experiences to connect with corporate teams effectively.
So, if you're considering selling to corporate clients or just want to learn more about what it takes, this episode is packed with valuable insights and a few laughs along the way!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our membership.
Do You Want to Offer Group Coaching
Saison 10 · Épisode 170
dimanche 27 avril 2025 • Durée 21:29
Thinking about offering group coaching programs? This episode is for you!
We explore the many benefits it offers – for those being coached and also for coaches themselves. Things like opportunities for support and feedback, profitability and scalability, and developing deep, lasting friendships.
We also share a few different program structures we’ve tried, and the impact we’ve seen. If you're curious about how group coaching can benefit your organization, or if you're a coach looking to expand your offerings, tune in to this episode!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.
Building Your Coaching Business with BP10
Saison 10 · Épisode 169
dimanche 13 avril 2025 • Durée 24:11
Ever wish you knew what all the best business builders had in common? What talents contributed to their success? Well, that’s exactly what the BP10 is all about! If you want to build a successful coaching business, you need to tune in!
We kick things off by explaining what BP10 stands for (Builder Profile 10) and how it identifies the top talents that successful business builders possess. We also share about our own top talents and how they influence our approaches to business, especially when it comes to building relationships and profitability. Spoiler alert: we have different strengths, but that’s what makes our conversation so rich! We also discuss the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people—your personal "board of directors"—to fill in the gaps where you might not excel.
Whether you're contemplating starting your own business or looking to enhance your existing one, this episode is packed with tips and encouragement to help you leverage your unique strengths for success. So grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let’s get building!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our membership.
Why Coaches Need a Signature Offer
Saison 10 · Épisode 168
dimanche 30 mars 2025 • Durée 17:17
This episode explores why having a clear and distinct signature offer is crucial for your coaching practice.
Whether you're an internal coach or running your own independent gig, clarity is key! Having a clear and distinct offering can make all the difference in attracting the right clients and maximizing your impact.
That’s why we discuss the importance of aligning your signature offer with both your strengths and your clients' needs. We also share tips on how to choose the right modality and service, and even how to frame your offering around the problems you solve.
Plus, we sprinkle in some fun anecdotes and examples from our own experiences, to make it clear – while you can have multiple offerings, a standout signature offer makes you memorable and repeatable.
So, grab a notepad and pen, settle in, and let’s get you on the path to creating a signature offer that truly reflects your unique coaching style!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out team at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our membership.
Strengths and Your Personal Brand as a Coach
Saison 10 · Épisode 167
dimanche 16 mars 2025 • Durée 26:48
In today's episode, we dive into building your personal brand as a coach. You’ll hear about "Connected Kelly," a coach who initially felt pressured to conform to an analytical persona in her big tech job, only to discover that her true strength—Connectedness—was what truly set her apart. You’ll learn how she transformed her approach, leading to a more fulfilling and energized coaching practice.
We also explore practical tips for building your personal brand, including how to identify the challenges you can help solve and how to communicate your unique value effectively. Whether you're an independent coach or working internally at a company, it’s important to be specific in your messaging to connect with your ideal clients.
So, if you’re ready to make sure your coaching brand aligns with your personal brand, this episode is packed with insights and actionable advice to help you shine!
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our membership.
Podcasts Similaires Basées sur le Contenu
Découvrez des podcasts liées à Lead Through Strengths - Build a Training and Coaching Practice, Based on Strengths. Explorez des podcasts avec des thèmes, sujets, et formats similaires. Ces similarités sont calculées grâce à des données tangibles, pas d'extrapolations !
● Know how to answer the question, “What do you do?” When someone asks, they’re standing at the front door of your business. If you don’t have a compelling answer, they will turn around and leave. Tailor your response to spark their interest, and they’ll likely ask to come inside.
● Referrals are the lifeblood of your business. Move beyond the awkward, “It was nice working with you. If you ever know anyone else who might be interested, please send them my way.” Instead, request referrals with confidence, intention, and gratitude. Build intentional relationships to create a network of mutual referrals that benefits everyone involved.
● Visibility is Vital 👀 If going out to find clients feels intimidating, get them to come to you instead! Find creative ways to make yourself visible and approachable in everyday situations, like bringing a relevant book to a coffee shop or wearing a name tag while working at a co-working space. These small actions can invite conversations and opportunities.
● Follow Up with Existing Clients: Don’t overlook your current and past clients. Regularly check in with them and ask for referrals or feedback, as they are often the best source for new business opportunities.
Take Action
● Identify and utilize your unique strengths in your prospecting efforts. Focus on what feels authentic to you rather than blindly following conventional methods. Authenticity wins every time!
● Craft Your One-Liner: Develop a compelling answer to the question, "What do you do?" that resonates with your target audience. Ask Brea to share her simple 3-sentence framework that works every time.
● Leverage Referral Partners 🤝Make a list of other professionals who serve your target audience in different ways. Invite them to be an intentional referral partner for you (and you for them!). By collaborating with these partners, you can create a network that mutually benefits everyone involved.
● Utilize Email Marketing: Start or enhance your email marketing strategy to gather and nurture leads. Create valuable content that keeps your audience engaged and positions you as a go-to resource in your field.
● Engage Current Clients for Referrals and Continuing Business: Regularly ask your existing clients for referrals by directly inquiring, "Who do you know that might benefit from my services?" Use feedback forms to gauge interest in additional services or coaching opportunities.
Here are 20 Things to Try, as a Numbered List
1. Be ready with a clear answer when someone asks, “What do you do?”
2. Create a network of referral partners in adjacent businesses.
3. Co-host an event to share audiences with another service provider.
4. Participate in adjacent groups, like trade associations (your audience), and be of service.
5. Be a toll booth in a customer’s existing flow. This is a way to get inbound leads because you are contributing in spaces where they are hanging out.
6. Create a nurture sequence in your email system. Keep in touch over the long term, and they will likely hit reply to offer gigs.
7. Use your strengths to decide which prospecting channel will feel most natural to you.
8. Bring “the book” to your coffee shop or hangout space (one you wrote, or one that is easy for them to comment on). Leave it on the table and use it as a conversation generator.
9. Wear a fun name tag to be extra approachable.
10. Host a podcast and sponsor yourself.
11. Write about a single topic all over the place – blog, guest author, a book, social – get known for a specific thing so people come to you.
12. Use email marketing. Unlike social media, where a small % of your followers see your content, with email marketing, you reach 100% of your list with no gatekeepers.
13. Run ads. Nail your messaging first so that you’re not bleeding out cash.
14. Expand business with an existing customer by building in a Yes/No checkbox on the feedback form to ask if they’re interested in following up with coaching.
15. Expand business with an existing customer by booking a “Keep Momentum” call after your event. Give them DIY ideas, and also offer ongoing services.
16. Be findable when someone searches for answers to the problem you solve, which means having at least a few pieces of clear content. This could be working on Search Engine Optimization to be found in online searches. It could also be on podcasts or YouTube, which also get used like a search engine.
17. Pick one primary marketing channel and go all in.
18. Directly ask for referrals. Using questions like “who else might need work like this on their team?” is a great way to get intros right after a client engagement.
19. Plug into a community of your target market. Contribute genuinely, and the relationships will naturally create business and referrals.
20. Use video. Trust is more important than ever. Being visible on video can help people know more quickly that they want your service.
🎧 If you're a coach looking to grow your client base, this episode is packed with actionable insights and creative ideas. Tune in now and let us know your thoughts!
Lisa: And today we are talking about, y'all, Brea is in love. Did you ever think we would have a show about Brea being in love? What are you in love with, Brea?
Brea: I love prospecting.
Lisa: They didn't see it coming.
Brea: I know. I was trying to think of something funny that was unexpected, but I wasn't expecting to do that. And then I just was like, I just love it. I love it so much. Helping people find clients, finding my own clients, reaching out and helping people, giving them a solution. Finding people, I just, I love it. I love it so much.
Lisa: You hear her excitement. She's in love with prospecting. How fun is that? So yeah, today we're going to talk about 10 ways to find clients as a coach. Hey, awesome. Let's go. Well, you're enamored. You're in love. So we're going to start with you. Give us a way to find clients as a coach.
Brea: Well, I think the first thing to do is to throw away the rule book. whatever the people have told you that you should be doing, or you have to do this if you're gonna find clients as a coach. No, there is no right way. We know from our strengths work that the only right way is to use your strengths. So do that. If you want to use social media and funnels and aggressive marketing campaigns and all the things that they say, whoever they are, say that you should do that, that's fine. And also use your strengths. So for me, communication, number one, telling the story, right? Sharing testimonials, telling the transformation, not in a salesy way, but just in a like, I love my job kind of way. You know, when you meet someone on the street, when you're sitting in the salon chair, when someone says, Hey, what do you do? Don't give them the wah, wah, wah. This is what I do. Tell them the story, right, if you lead with communication. So, woo, you know, look for opportunities to approach new people or sign up for networking events or figure out ways to use your strengths. to interact and engage with people.
Lisa: Yes. One of mine was pretty similar, so I'll just jump on to kind of piggyback that. And the way that I thought of it was, have an answer that you love to the question, what do you do? Because that question comes up in life so often. So I always think about the person I'm talking to. So if I'm in a room full of software engineers and my answer is, I help burned out software engineers love their work again, like I'm being really specific to that person where they're like, oh, I'm burned out. So whether in the story, I just love your perspective because you're pulling people in like, oh my gosh, I know someone who needs you.
Brea: So that's right. That's right. Yeah, and you're reminding me we have another episode, I don't remember what it's called off the top of my head, but where we talk about that one-liner. And so if that's something that you listeners want to do, go back and listen to that to maybe spark some creativity about how to create that one-liner.
Lisa: Yes, absolutely. We'll find it and put it in the show notes.
Brea: Okay.
Lisa: Yeah. So Brea, if we do, if we start with how we've actually gotten the bulk of our business, let's start the next couple with things that we actually used to get business. I mean, probably all of them are things that we've used, but I want to say like, what has had the biggest impact in getting us business?
Brea: Yeah, so I love this concept of referral partners. I mean, referrals are just, I mean, chef's kiss, you know, for building a business. But I don't know that a lot of people know what a referral partner is or have put some thought into having intentional referral partners. So that could look like a referral program where clients can refer you and maybe they get some kind of reward or maybe they do it out of the kindness of their heart. But when I think of a referral partner, I think of who else serves your customer, your client base, in a different way. Are you intentionally partnering with those people to refer each other? So think, what else does your client need? Find those service providers and link arms. Realtors are great at this. Their job is to sell the house, so their referral partners are the plumber, the electrician, the lawn maintenance, anything that a homeowner might need services for, then all of a sudden you've got this network of people that are referring their clients to each other. And we can do that too as coaches.
Lisa: Yes, so smart. I can see, like, if you do CliftonStrengths for teams in manufacturing and you have a referral partner who does HR for teams in manufacturing, you could be a great referral partner for each other. Absolutely. Yes. I have something similar I would add. It's going to be a separate thing. It's a separate technique, but it is along the lines of referrals. I would call it an expansion referral. And that would be, I've gotten a lot of business over the years where I get in a customer, and then I'm in with Executive A, and then Executive B tells Executive C, and they start spreading you around the organization, sharing what you do. And that can be something that just happens because the impact was big and they took it upon themselves to do it. But you could also do this really programmatically. If they don't have the budget to do the full thing they want to accomplish, I'll say, what other leaders could we involve so that you could team up together and get a year's worth of this instead of one? session, one one-off session. So things like that, where you get in and you grow the opportunity from the inside because you've already proven yourself and you have fans who are willing to share, plus you're already through the procurement system and all of those things that happen. So I would say, I would call that an expansion referral, a little different from an outside referral partner, but both amazing kinds of referrals, especially if you make it a system.
Brea: Yeah, I love that. You know, my missionary background is coming to mind where I had to fundraise all of my income for four years. And in that training, we learned a question that has been so helpful for me as a business owner. And that question is, who do you know that needs whatever it is that you provide, that needs your coaching services. But when you ask a current customer who already loves you, who's already paying you, who is already singing your praises, the question of who do you know is so much different than saying, oh, if you know anybody who could blah, blah, blah. That's not actually helpful, but when you say, who do you know? Then their brain turns on, right? And they're like, oh, maybe this leader. Oh, maybe this person. Oh, so be direct without being aggressive or, you know, like weird about it, but give them an opportunity to actually answer the question instead of just throwing the ball casually in their court and just watching it like drop and bounce. away, you know?
Lisa: Love it. Okay, how else have you got in business? That's amazing.
Brea: So I think asking people who you patronize to patronize you is like a great way to kind of start that referral partner process. And then can you co-host something together where they invite their people, you invite your people and and those relationships start to meld. One way that I've found to be incredibly helpful and lucrative is at a co-working space because a lot of my clients are smaller businesses or entrepreneurs or, you know, people in the local community and they office out of a co-working space and the co-working space already has clients, right? They've got people that are there who need my services. So I can offer the benefit to the coworking space of professional development. Here are a lot of small businesses who don't have a budget for that or just, you know, startups that need and desire professional development, but they don't have the big corporate budget or the corporate vendors, the systems. And so I can just come in and provide that for the coworking space. And the coworking space is providing me with the people. We do a little intro workshop and then Boom, we're off to the races.
Lisa: Okay, amazing. I mean, audience built in. My version of that, I have one that is similar but a different thread. I would call it adjacent groups. So for example, I think of my favorite match of an audience. So over the years when I would lead workshops, The ones that just always felt so aligned and like great fit were marketing teams. And so then, OK, what are the marketing associations? American Marketing Association, there's a national something, National Association for Advertisers. It's ANA, I think. But anyway, different groups like that, where you go to the trade associations, but not in what you deliver. So I didn't say, Go to the CliftonStrengths Association, because I do CliftonStrengths. I moved over to something adjacent. I thought of my audience, and then my audience's group, because that's not going to be filled up with people who do what you do. Just like I mentioned manufacturers earlier, if I went to a manufacturing association, and I delivered something as a CliftonStrengths person, it's going to look really unique, and the concept might be very unique to them. And it's not just flooded with people doing the same thing. So adjacent groups are a really cool place to provide development, just like you're talking about with that audience that is already sitting there, where they wouldn't have gotten that education otherwise, if you delivered a speech or a workshop for that group.
Brea: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And if workshops are not your thing, if you're listening and you're thinking, oh, I'm a coach, you know, I don't want to go out there and do an intro workshop to get people. Try a book club. Partner with a local bookstore or a local library or a local group that's adjacent and do a book club. And when they get to know you and they hear what you have to offer, then that easily can transfer into a coaching engagement.
Lisa: Beautiful. Well, I'll share my favorite thing. And that is I love email marketing, as you know, probably as much as I love prospecting. I love email marketing. I love the automation of it. I love how I can educate and help people. And I can write a thing once and it can serve 100,000 people with that one writing. I think it's so cool. And so once someone is on my email list, I have a couple of years worth of those nurture sequences to keep educating them and keeping them up on whatever topic. So being of service. But what is so cool from a business building standpoint is, if they're of value, and people stay subscribed, then you become part of their daily flow. And I have had dozens, I would guess on the order of about 50 events, where people hit reply on one of those emails way into the sequence. They are 18 months in, they're two months in, and they're like, oh, hey, we're having a summit in three months and we're planning, we need a speaker, can you speak on X date? Those gigs are so great. They know you and love you. They've received content for months or years, and they're literally just saying, I have a gig in this city on this day. Are you available? Let's go. I mean. What can get better than that, where they're literally just like plopping it at your feet?
Brea: Yeah, I think that's so good. You have to be visible. And so your email sequence is making yourself visible on a regular basis, right? Weekly in your case. I don't do email marketing like that. My version of being visible is when I go to a coffee shop, I take my laptop and I'm just going to do some admin work to get my energy from the vibes. I'm going to bring a book. Maybe it's a StrengthsFinder book. Maybe it's, I don't know, it's The Manager or Strengths for Students. I've been working on some offerings for students, high school students and their parents. I'm going to bring the book and I'm going to set it on the table. so that anyone walking by or looking in my direction sees the book and if that connects with them in some way, there's an opening for a conversation and it's making my offerings visible. And then they come to me and they say, oh my gosh, StrengthsFinder. I love that. I did that at my job two companies ago and I really wish that my company that I'm at now would do it. And I'm like, oh, really? Tell me more. Let me help you with that, right? So clever.
Lisa: And they're coming to you. They're approaching you.
Brea: That's right. So make yourself visible and it doesn't have to be like you get a sign and you're standing out on the street corner and you're like, hey, mattress sale today. Come on in. You know, it doesn't have to be crazy.
Lisa: You have that sandwich board. You're swinging that sign around that goes in the twirlies that is like, strength coaching here.
Brea: Right, right. I mean, if that's you, do you. But I think most of us, it could be as simple as just putting a book out for people to react to. I love co-working spaces. I just joined a new place. I've been wearing a name tag. It just says, hi, I'm Brea. Or sometimes I'll say like, please say hi. You know, I, I love people, you know, or something, something that kind of catches people's eye. So again, it's an invitation. And if they want to engage, they can. So just be creative, but be visible.
Lisa: I love the creativity. Okay, let's see. I have one that I think is worth putting in here because it is the way I've gotten the most business over the years. Host a podcast and sponsor yourself. So by the way, you hear me talk about at the end of these episodes, you hear me mention Tools for Coaches, my membership that supports coaches. You hear Brea talk about going to brearoper.com for coaching. We have a podcast. We're sponsoring ourselves because that's who we're talking about, just like I did there. So that's part of the beauty is that you have some awareness of a service that we offer. And the way that I've systemized it to really make it work over the years is every time we do a podcast, we transcribe an episode. I turn it into a blog post. That blog post over the course of 11 years, having that many of them, even though we don't have a high frequency show, It's built really good search engine optimization. So people Google and find me based on the topic and just dropping in your contact form saying, I found you on Google, want to talk to you about an event. And that has been an incredible win. That's what everyone seems to wish for. And it really does happen.
Brea: I love that. I just am so inspired by you, Lisa. Slow and steady wins the race. Consistency, your focus, you just kind of have built such a wealth of resources on your website, and it's working. So that's inspiring to me. Yeah, I think along those lines, you can write, you can host your own blog, or you can be a guest blogger. You can be a featured writer in magazines, newspapers, other publications. It could be on LinkedIn, it could be on social media, but also go out there and be a guest author in a real publication. Again, obviously, target the publications that your people are reading. Use your strengths.
Lisa: And books. I mean, look, in the speaking world, the most classic way to sell to customers is to have a book, be an expert in a topic, and you have a book, which is basically like a business card. It's something tangible that people put in there. hand to know about you and then of course like if you make a dollar or two a book and you sell one to every crowd you can get some momentum from that but books are a classic way of writing and getting customers especially in the speaking world.
Brea: The last thing that I'll say is I think we've already touched on it but I just really want to call it out because it's so important is find your clients in the clients you already have. Don't sleep on your current or your past clients. The people who you've already sold to are most likely to buy from you again. So make sure you're always, always reaching out.
Lisa: Yeah, I want to add on that two specific ways. Because I think what you just said is so important. So one way of doing that is, let's say you're doing a workshop or a coaching program, and you have feedback forms at the end. You can literally build in a yes-no checkbox kind of question at the end to ask them if they're interested in exploring one-on-one coaching on the topic that you just did. So, for example, let's say the company provided the budget for the kickoff. I could go back as the coach and say, 85% of people check they'd really be interested in this. Would it be of interest for you to explore how we can make this happen for your team? And also, if there's someone who's interested in one-on-one coaching and they might want to pay for themselves, it might be something they want to do individually as well. Feedback forums can be a really good place to introduce something that you have, a solution to their problem, something of interest to go further, and they just don't know ways to go further if you don't tell them. So that is a way to open the conversation.
Brea: That has worked for me so many times. I actually do cards at the event, and I put them in a little bag or a box, and I draw for a little prize, because you don't want to force people, but you want to encourage people to fill it out. But I also put on those checkboxes like, are you interested in one-on-one coaching? Are you interested in bringing me to your school, to your church, to your, you know, fill in different places that you might go that are even outside of the workplace? Because people a hundred percent are not thinking that you might do that if they're experiencing you in their workplace, right? They're not thinking outside of that at all. So if that is something you offer, put that on the card as well. And then also have a place for them to put their testimonial. Just write something that they really loved about the day, and then boom, you've got a testimonial. And if you really, really want to just milk it for all it's worth, you can ask them if they have a referral. You know, so those those feedback forms or those, you know, those cards can really, really pack a lot of value.
Lisa: Packing in the value. Okay, let's see value. Another technique is when you're in the process, let's say you have a workshop or a speech planned, you have an event in the works, You set up with the person who's sponsoring it for the company, you set up this extra call while you're in process, and it's a debrief call. You set it up in advance. And in the debrief call, you chat about what's next. And in the what's next conversation, You might be just saying, you know, like, congratulations, you've graduated type of thing. And here are some things you can think about going forward. And I have these things available to help you if you want to go deeper, you want to go further and ask people if they're interested in carrying it forward. And if they say no, I don't have the budget or no, not right now. But I would love to think about that for next year. Then you have the follow up for next year. But a lot of times they're like, yeah, I didn't know there was a next. I didn't know there was another step in this progression. And you already have the call set up. So it's not awkward. You're debriefing and you're chatting about what's next, how to carry it forward.
Brea: Yes, how to really maximize their investment, right? How to set them up for success, continued success. Yes, that is, I'm just going to repeat what you said because it's so important, setting up the call ahead of time so that they're expecting it. Set up the workshop, set up the debrief all in the same call. It just flows so much better and feels better for both parties.
Lisa: Yeah. Love it. It's part of the process. It's just part of the system. And it is a conversation that sounds natural and is natural. You don't want your thing to come to a conclusion and be like, okay, bye, abrupt, like just cut off. And it doesn't mean that somebody always has the budget or inclination to keep going, but they usually do. They want to maximize their investment. They want to keep things happening. And if they don't have the money to do that right now, they might have the money in six months if they're looking for a corporate budget or they have to get in the cycle, it might be next year. But those are those long tail things that just keep the pipeline full over time so that you don't look up and say, oops, I don't have any bookings now. What do I do? I'm starting from scratch again. No, if you're always doing this with every customer and you hit, let's say only 25% of those turn into business, that's a lot after you add them up over the course of years.
Brea: Yep, yep.
Lisa: I'll give my closing thought. Closing item, I should say, because I want to do one more. We're always talking about strengths. You and I both love CliftonStrengths. And I think prospecting is tough for a lot of people. And instead of having Brea's reaction that is like, I love it." Instead, people are like, I didn't like the thought of it. Oh my gosh, I wish they would just magically appear in my inbox. This is a great opportunity to say, pick a primary marketing channel. and pick something that aligns with your strengths. Like if you're a speaker and a workshop leader, and you love being on stages, then maybe webinars and speeches are the kinds of things you should think about as your primary lead gen. If you like the one-on-one interaction and that is what you need and want and sounds more meaningful to you, maybe you're gonna reach out to every person who's in your professional network from way back in the day and you just like log them up in a spreadsheet and you do a couple a day where you reach out and you say, hey, I'm doing this new thing. This is what I do. If you know somebody who needs X, I hope you'll send them to me and just get the conversations going in a way that aligns with you and your strengths. Because if you don't, you're going to wear yourself out, burn yourself out, and you're going to hate prospecting. One of the reasons I think Brea likes it so much is like she's giving these creative ideas like wearing a name tag that makes it approachable. So people are just like, oh my gosh, I want to talk to you. Well, she leads through communication. She wants to get people talking to her and she thought of creative ways to get people talking to her. How perfect is that?
Brea: Yep. I mean, that's why I love it. Communication Woo Activator, top three. If there's a strength zone, this is it for me. I love it. I love it.
Lisa: Amazing. I would come talk to you. I would come talk to you with that book on the table at the coffee shop. I would come talk to you with the name tag. Yeah. There are all kinds of ways to be creative to allow approachability. I mean, of course, a smile always helps make you be approachable, but there are a lot of other tools you can use that naturally draw people in to start talking to you.
Brea: Totally. Yes. Use your strengths, baby. Come on. Come on. Use your strengths. Lead with your strengths.
Lisa: And prospecting, dare we say, might actually be fun.
Brea: Yes. It is. It is. I know, we already have gone so over time. So here's my closing thought. My closing thought is if you are interested in the idea of using your strengths to prospect, come to my website, no surprise there, brearoper.com. But this time I actually have a download for you. Send me your top five and I'll send you some ways to prospect based on your strengths.
Lisa: Oh, that sounds really cool. I want that. I'm headed there now. And then for mine, Tools for Coaches. It's our group. And if you are listening to some of these and you're on the, like, in the Lisa land where you're like, Oh, yeah, she's talking about long tail over time. She's talking about evergreen email, she's talking about building systems that a little bit at a time have a compounding effect. If that kind of stuff resonates with you, those are the kind of systems and tools and templates I provide in the Tools for Coaches membership. Right now, the price is only $100 a month. So come on over and join us. Leadthroughstrengths.com slash Tools for Coaches.
Brea: Sounds good to me.
Lisa: All right. Well, hey, Brea, we got to go. We need to go build some more business and start thinking about prospecting.
Brea: Oh, you're right. Yeah. OK, guys. Catch you on the flip side.
● Creative low ticket ideas: Steal some of Lisa & Brea’s favorite low ticket offerings that you can implement in your coaching practice.
● Leverage Existing Content: Coaches can create low ticket offers from existing materials, such as recorded webinars, activity guides, or coaching templates. This allows you to monetize content you’ve already developed, making it easier to generate income.
● Build Trust and Value: Low ticket offers can help establish trust with your audience. When clients see the value in your lower-priced products, they are more likely to invest in higher-ticket items down the line, creating a sustainable business model.
Take Action to Build a Low Ticket Offer Strategy
● Define Your Low Ticket Offer: Determine what your low ticket offer will be. Remember to make it a “no-brainer” for potential customers.
● Repackage an Existing Asset: Look through your existing materials (like recorded webinars, handouts, or coaching questions) and package them into a low ticket offer. Aim to create something that provides value and can be easily sold, such as a workbook or an activity guide.
● Ask For the Sale: After you create a clear offer, it’s time to communicate it to your audience. Remember, people who have bought from you before are more likely to buy again.
● Automate Your Sales: Consider exploring ways to automate the sales of your low ticket offers, such as through email marketing or online sales platforms, to generate income while you focus on other aspects of your business.
🎧 Whether you're just starting out or looking to expand your existing offerings, this episode is packed with actionable insights that you can implement right away. Let’s unlock the potential of low ticket offers together!
Lisa: And today we're talking about a wallet phenomenon. It is all about low ticket offers and how they can help your coaching practice.
Brea: Ooh, I love a low ticket offer. Come on.
Lisa: Yes. Come on.
Brea: I'm here for this. Yeah. All this talk. I hear so many people like, oh, here's how you have the highest ticket.
Lisa: Most high end product. That's all cool. If you can sell $100,000 product. Cool. I love you for it. It is amazing. I have sold six figure product. things as well, or services rather, but low ticket is its own phenomenon. It has its own magic. I personally love having low ticket in the portfolio of a coaching business.
Brea: Amen. Yes. I mean, that's how I launched my business was a hundred people, a hundred dollars, a hundred people in 60 days that I was able to coach. And that was the foundation for an eight plus year business, you know, so.
Lisa: Yeah. OK, so let's just do dollar definitions and then we can do a little bit of a greater definition. But if you say low ticket, what is a dollar amount of a we're talking U.S. dollars if you want to do a conversion from another currency. But what is approximately a low ticket offer in your world?
Brea: In my mind, I think $100 or less is a no-brainer. When I think of low ticket, I think, what is something that you could put out there and almost every single person, nine out of 10 people, could say yes without having to think about it, without having to ask for permission from someone, without having to get special funds. Just $100, sure, I'll try it.
Lisa: I would say something very similar but in my mind it's all about the no-brainer factor like I like to get in a $25 or under zone because I want it to be true no-brainer like literally they just go oh I will, yeah, sign me up. I'm not even going to think about it.
Brea: I would be an idiot if I didn't say yes.
Lisa: Yes, yes. So personally, I like the person, not the value of the offer, because I do think it is cool in a low ticket offer. If you could say, here's a Lamborghini product, but you're going to pay a Camaro price. If they can get that vibe on the value difference, then of course, they're going to be like, oh yeah, I'll put my $100 in. But that idea of offering something that has way higher value is super cool. But I like that. Yeah, that very low ticket is for me and the strategy that I have behind low ticket. I like it to be very low.
Brea: Yeah. And you know, this, gosh, this conversation could go so many different ways. Like, you know, a $9.99 offer, a $10 offer could be an upsell, right? If they're buying something online and then it's like, oh, here's another $10 thing. Do you want to just add that on to the course you bought or, you know, the coaching package or whatever? That's one kind of low-ticket offer where it's coming at the end of the purchase. I think when I think of low-ticket offers, most often I think of something that's coming at the very beginning of that customer journey to bring them into your sphere and start working with them in a small way. Kind of like you dip your toe in the pool before you jump in just to get acquainted. That's not so much of a shock. That's, I think, a great use of low ticket offers as well.
Lisa: I am absolutely with you. I think the biggest magic you can get out of it is on the front end. So I have two favorite things. One, I have, as an example that is concrete, I have $10 activity guides someone can download and they don't have to be a trainer type. They don't have to have any special training. and it allows them to run a mini team building kind of conversation with their team. So those conversation guides slash activity guides, 10 bucks. I mean, it's one of those things like I love that for those who can't afford the bigger service right now. But you know, they'll stay in touch with you. And later, they might become your deeper clients in that way. But one of my favorite ways is totally a different strategy. It is when someone signs up for your list. It's like, Hey, you just downloaded this thing, this, this freebie on conflict. If you click here, you can also grab for $10 this more robust version where I can walk you through being able to lead a conversation like this with your team. I think that is such a cool way and I have so many reasons for it because it's easy to spend the money. You're converting a prospective customer into a legitimate customer. Now they're not just lurking around. Now they're not just looking at freebies. They are now a customer and people who have already purchased from you are so much more likely to stay in touch with you and purchase again. And I think probably the more important thing, you're establishing a business relationship with this person. And I hear people all the time say, well, I have all these people and they're just around for the free content. I have the tire kickers, I have the freebie seekers, but I don't have people who transact. Well, I think that if you put out so much free content everywhere all the time, it's great. And that is a good thing for being able to have brand awareness and establish relationships. But think of it, it's kind of like they view you like a charity. And you have a business and you have to make offers to not go out of business.
Brea: That's right.
Lisa: So this changes the relationship. So some things are free content, some things are for sale, and it normalizes a relationship that you have offers and you have a business, not that you are only a charity where they come to get only free. And I think that dynamic in the relationship, and listen, we're talking about the shift happening over $10, but it totally changes the mentality in the relationship, and I think in such a good way.
Brea: A huge way. You know, this is so key. As you're sharing, I was just thinking about all of the conversations that I've had. with other coaches or other business owners who say the exact same thing. I'm putting out all this content, I'm showing up on socials and no one is buying. And so I just ask, well, have you asked them? You know, have you asked them to buy? And they're like, wait, what do you mean? And I'm like, have you put out an offer? Have you actually said like, here's something and this is what it costs, you know, or are you only doing the free stuff to try to get them into your funnel? There's all this noise out there about getting people into your funnel and the purpose of the funnel is to get them to buy. It's not the end, it's the beginning. It's surprising to me how many people forget to ask for business and to your earlier point, to ask for repeat business. Right? People who have already purchased for you are the most likely prospects for future sales. So ask, ask, ask, ask. You have to, you have to ask. When I think of transforming browsers to buyers, the difference in my mind is the browsing, the free content, you know, the things you want to put out there that you might not be charging for. That's the why. Why should you do business with me? Why is it important? And what that sounds like to the customer is what is the problem that you're facing, right? The free stuff should connect with them in a way that says, ooh, this is my person, Lisa. Like she gets it. She gets me, she gets my problems, she gets the situation I'm in, however you want to say it. I understand why I should do business with her and that she can help me. She's the person. And then you charge for the how. you're not going to tell them how to fix their problem or you're not going to give them the solution for free. You're going to charge for that. So if your freebie is attracting them into your funnel, then what you're offering them in even a low ticket way is just maybe here's the first step to the solution and then they can pay more for a bigger offer that offers them more later.
Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. I actually attended one recently and I thought it was a clever idea. I did a boot camp that I paid $25 for and the boot camp, this was extremely inexpensive for what it was. And so as you might imagine, now that I've said that, this boot camp is the start of his funnel. And so you're in the boot camp, and then you're getting upsold into a more expensive product set. And it was great. It's totally fine with me. I only paid 25 bucks. It made it a no brainer for the bootcamp. And truth be told, I already had plans for that week that did not include working. And so I skipped every day except the first day and I'm planning to go back to replays and whether I do or not, I don't know, but I want to. That is another thing about like, it's so low ticket that if I lost $25 over it, I'm not going to lose any sleep. But I also didn't want to lose the opportunity to get this content for only $25. So it was more important for me to take the chance to buy it. And then I'm supposed to watch the replays within a year or they disappear. A year is plenty of time. So, I'm totally happy and if a year goes by and I didn't do it, then I still thought that was a risk worth it because it was such a no-brainer dollar amount.
Brea: I mean, we are in the age where most people would agree with you. I've spent money on things that I haven't used because it's like, oh, it's such a great offer. So, yeah, I get that. I think low-ticket offers are also an opportunity to to build trust with people. When we first started talking, it kind of triggered something inside of me of like, sometimes there is such a thing as too low of a price in my mind. If you're selling a Lamborghini for a Camaro price, You definitely don't want to sell a Lamborghini for, I don't know, whatever is less than the Camaro price. Because then people, they kind of lose a little bit of trust. They're like, wait, this sounds too good to be true. So you don't want to sell something that's $2,500 for $25, right? So there is, there is something I think to be said about low ticket might be under $100, it might also just be like, look, if you've got a $10,000 coaching program, maybe the low-ticket version or the low-ticket offer for that is $1,000, not $100, but $1,000.
Lisa: I'm with you there on value. So let's talk about, as the coach who's building a practice, many coaches have these portfolio businesses. You lead workshops, you do one-on-one coaching, you have group programs, you have all kinds of things. This can introduce the variety of topics, like low ticket can mean, Oh, look, I've delivered these 10 other workshops, but people tend to know me for this other thing. So you could have these low ticket offers in those areas that people don't yet know you for and you want to start to get them exposed to you in that new way. And it's totally low risk for them to do it. Think about things like You did a webinar and you recorded it on Zoom. Now you have a product you could go sell as a low-ticket offer. You have a really cool handout or workbook or something that you use in a framework. Like, let's say you have a workshop that you offer on delivering feedback, and then you have this really cool model for delivering feedback, and you have a handout and a guide on it. And it's sitting in your Dropbox folder and you could just package it up and have a low ticket thing. Like go dig around your files for two or three hours. I bet you could come up with 40 things that you could sell for $10.
Brea: I believe it. I believe it. I've done that. I do that, you know. I have to be intentional about that because I'll just create and create and create and it'll sit and sit and sit and it won't even be sold the first time, you know, because I learn as I do, right? So there's so much stuff that's sitting there just waiting to go out and I love it when coaches come to me and they say, you know, hey, what have you done for I don't know, someone came to me a couple weeks ago and she said she was looking for name cards that she could put into like lanyards for presentation and I was like, oh yeah, I have a template and I sold it to her and it saved her time. It was a win-win for both of us. I was able to customize it for her with her branding. It was a low ticket offer, you know, and it helped her and it helped me. So I think there's people have tons of stuff like that.
Lisa: Yes. And if you know that you're going to create things like this, you could do it with the thought in mind like, hey, I'm going to make this so it could be white labeled for later in your case. Or if it's an end product like a handout that you want to sell, you could just be thinking, oh, if I wanted to sell this as a standalone, what I need to add to my process right now. literally within 30 minutes, you could have your first one done. And then after that, each one might take five minutes.
Brea: Yes. It's always the first one, which is often why people don't do it. Right. Whether it's this or anything is just like, Oh, I have to go buy this software. I have to, you know, go put this thing together, you know, this web page or whatever. I have to add this to my, my Squarespace website. But once it's there, Boom. That's it. I love it. The other thing about low ticket offers, all this noise that's out there that's like, oh, you have to sell all the high ticket offers and you have to make a lot of money every time you sell. McDonald's does not sell high ticket offers. And they, you know what I mean? You can sell cheeseburgers for 99 cents or I don't know whatever it is now, but for very low ticket and be the number one hamburger chain, you know, I'm just making up statistics, but be something that everyone recognizes, right? I mean, McDonald's is, is huge. because they sell cheeseburgers, because they sell fries. So you can get rich on low ticket offers. I guess that's what I'm saying. You don't have to sell high ticket if you don't want to at all. It doesn't have to be- It's not the only way. Yeah, it doesn't have to just be like, oh, you should add a low ticket offer to be supportive. That could be the main meal.
Lisa: It could, it could. And I think that's an interesting model conversation because If it's a low ticket and someone comes back again and again and again, that relationship, it's easy to keep the relationship going. One thing that's difficult about high ticket, I know on this podcast I've told the story about having the $29,000 solution and then challenging myself to add a zero and I sold the $279,000 package and I thought I was so cool. But there's so many, I mean, okay, I'm doing a little high five to myself here for that. Also, how many of those have I sold? Right, right. Certainly not very many so If you want to go whale the rare, you know the rare Yeah, yeah, and some people have a really good time they chase those and they do all RFP business because they're out there doing those requests for proposals and they're looking for those massive multi-million dollar contracts and And that is totally a legit business model. And just as legit business model is selling $25 at a time, a bunch of times to someone who just loves swimming in your ocean. And over time, it'll be like, oh, they bought this activity guide. And then a week later, they bought this one. And then two months later, they bought this other one. And then, oh, look, they started coming to every webinar I deliver. And then, oh, look, they became a workshop customer. It's so fun.
Brea: It's very rare that you get someone to the altar on the first date, right? You know, it's very rare that you're going to just sell your high ticket item to someone out of the blue. And you can either chase them personally with phone calls, with meetings, with emails, however you do it, or you can sell them things. You know, I mean, it's amazing.
Lisa: Yeah. Yes. I like this metaphor. Like we're not trying to get married and do the $100,000 gig deal. We are on a coffee date.
Brea: Yep, that's right. And just getting to know me. And I mean, because like you said, a lot of these low ticket offers can be automated. That happens while you sleep. You're not even doing anything. It's easy. And you're putting yourself out there and keeping your business top of mind with your future customers or with past customers. And that's what's motivating them to buy in the future.
Lisa: Yes. Okay. I'm doing this off the cuff, so we'll see what we can come up with. Let's see if we can come up with a back and forth, like five different things that a person who's a coach, especially the portfolio business kind of coach who does workshops and coaching, what kind of thing could they sell for 10 bucks? Or let's just say low ticket.
Brea: Go. So something that a lot of people don't know about is private podcasts or even just audio. That's something that I love to offer as a low ticket item.
Lisa: Good one. I know you like to talk about Hello Audio as one of those.
Brea: Hello Audio, that's right. Shout out to Nora if you're listening.
Lisa: Okay, that's good. Okay, I'm going to say go back through Zoom recordings and see what you've delivered that you could sell the recording that already exists. If you just do a little trimmy trim and then you could sell that.
Brea: Boom. Love it. Love it. How about audio coaching? I mean, you're picking up on my communication. Number one, I love audio. But like pre-recorded coaching questions, reflection questions, mantras, you know, whatever you want to package it up as so people can hear your voice, experience your coaching questions every day without paying the big ticket price for one-on-one coaching.
Lisa: Oh, I'll tell you one. I hear everyone in the audience, somebody put this out before I do, because I've been thinking of it for years and have not executed yet. It's just basically a workbook of coaching questions, and they're tailored to whatever thing you want to guide them through. And you give them something $100 or less, and they take themselves on their own, their own personal retreat, and you just write up prompts, and you package it up in a beautiful workbook that they can print out and take with them.
Brea: Well, shoot, Lisa, I've got a few of those in my vault. I should just pull them out and sell them. That's a good reminder. Yeah, tomorrow. That's funny. I actually just made another one for a one-on-one client.
Lisa: Well, how many of those do we have as coaches? We do a coaching session, and we're like, oh, they're focused. Like, pick a thing. Oh, this person's really focused on their goals for the year. This person's really focused on weight loss. Like, pick the thing. And then you know you have 20 questions you could support. And if you did a one-on-one coaching, you might even send them follow-ups that you drip out, things like that. Those are all right there under our fingertips, right at the tip of our tongues. It would be so easy to create those from scratch. And we just don't. And it would be so easy to do it and sell it.
Brea: Yep. Yep. And I mean, I have to say it just because it's probably one of the most common things. It's common because it works is an ebook or a guide, 10 steps to something or 10 easy ways to, you know, just a, a real easy PDF download. People love that. They love that stuff, but go for like seven things or 10 things. There's a lot of psychology behind that, but those are numbers that people like.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. And then your deep dive extra private podcast that explains each of them and what to do to really take action Like you could just build from one thing to the next and take your lead magnets and build on them. That's right Okay, I want to build on my activity guides I think that idea of setting up one page guides that someone else can facilitate, it is so powerful. How cool to have, like, I just think about when I was a manager early on, like a frontline manager, and I didn't have a team building budget to go access, I would have spent $10 of my own money. And that is such an easy one to create and so powerful for what you're providing them. with. I think it's a really nice one for those of you who have a workshop business or a content business. Totally.
Brea: Yeah, and for those of you that are listening, you can probably hear the difference in Lisa's brain and my brain. I don't often think about the auto magic or the repeatable, but I love being live. I love being connected even in the low ticket offers. Um, so don't limit yourself to something that they have to download or something that works while you sleep. You can make low ticket offers that are inclusive of your time, you know? Yes. Yeah. Yes.
Lisa: Yeah, you're right. That is not my first go-to.
Brea: I mean, I've done so many webinars over the years that are $100 a seat or $97 is usually the price that I do because of psychology. But, you know, $97 a seat, that's a low ticket price. But if I sell several seats to the same webinar in that hour, then it's worth it for me.
Lisa: Yes. Yep. And now you have a customer, you have a different relationship with that person, and they're going to buy from you in the future, and you've established that relationship at a deeper level. Yes, yes. Because I'm going to come away from that $97 being like, I want more brand.
Brea: I want more, yes. And here's the thing. I find a lot of value in saying, look, spend $97, come to this webinar. It's not going to be recorded. There's value in that. There's attraction in that as well. And it gives a different message, you know? So yeah, just another way to look at it.
Lisa: And you know, I think you're bringing up a different angle on the money, but also you're bringing up a different psychology in terms of putting yourself out there. So if I go to your $97 webinar and I know that it's going to be recorded and resold as a participant, I'm going to be a little bit guarded about what I say because I know any person in the world could buy this and see exactly what I said. And if you say it's not going to be recorded, I'm going to show up in a different way. That's me personally. I don't know if everybody is like that, but I would show up differently if I knew it wasn't going to be recorded. And then, of course, you have the scarcity like, well, you know, buy it here because it's not just something you can download later for free.
Brea: That's right. And you have to sell them something else if they want to keep engaging with you because they don't have a recording from that to go back to and revisit. Right. So they're more engaged. They're more invested because they've shown up in a more vulnerable way, most likely. And they're primed and they're ready to purchase more to keep going down that journey.
Lisa: Yeah. Okay. This was a fun exploration of low ticket. I think for a lot of people, this is kind of a new phrase, even thinking low ticket, high ticket, what kind of ticket? They just think, here's what I do. How much should I charge for that? That's a whole question, a whole different show. What should I charge for that? But this idea of having low ticket in your stable of offerings is a valuable conversation to have and a valuable thought to make sure you run through. Brea, did you have a low ticket thing you wanted to share with the audience?
Brea: Oh my gosh, you know what? I think about all the people who are listening and I hope that you listen and you're like, wow, this is really exciting. I want to do a low ticket offer in my business or I want to add a group coaching program to my business or I want to take whatever the topic of this episode is and I want to do that in my business. And then life happens and you don't take action. If that's you, here's my invitation to you. Let's do a virtual little meetup on the off weeks. We release an episode every other week. So on the weeks that an episode doesn't release, we're going to meet up all the listeners who want to come and discuss whatever the topic of this episode is. I'll be there to answer questions and let's do it. Let's get the work done. Let, let me create a space for you to come together with other listeners of the podcast and actually get this stuff done. So if that sounds good to you, if you want to spend some time connecting with other listeners and connecting with me, go to my website, brearoper.com and come join us.
Lisa: Love it. Love it. Well, I'm not going to say any call to action this time because I'm just going to leave that at Brea's so that you can go hang with Brea.
Brea: Oh, well, thank you. I just, I really want to know who you guys are. I believe you're out there, but yeah, I would love to, love to connect with you. So just come on, you know, and let's get, let's get some work done. Let me activate you and, and let's connect with each other.
Lisa: Yes. Is there a thing like Strengths Twins Activate? Where did that come from?
Brea: Oh, I don't know. I mean, Richard Starey keeps a database of strengths for people to match them to twins.
Lisa: Yeah, it's not the Strengths. What is that? StrengthsTwins.com. That's really cool, but it's not what I'm thinking of. There's something that's like Power Twins Activate or something that I don't know because I'm so missing non-pop culture.
Brea: That's so funny.
Lisa: I keep thinking of Inspector Gadget, but that's not it.
Brea: I don't even know either.
Lisa: People tell us. Look how lost we are. We need you.
Brea: You need to come to the meetup to let us know. Cool. All right. Well, this was fun. I feel like hopefully there's a lot of value there for people. But don't just let it sit. Go and do something with it. Do it on your own or come do it with me and do it with other listeners. Let's do it.
Lisa: One thing, one little thing, because after you do the first one, the rest will seem easy. Talk to you later.
● Embrace the Lumps: It's completely normal to experience fluctuations in your income. These ups and downs are part of the entrepreneurial journey, and don’t reflect your worth as a business owner. Instead of feeling like something is wrong, let's recognize this is a natural part of running a business. By accepting the lumps, we can better prepare for them, and even leverage them to our advantage.
● Create Predictable Revenue Streams: Finding ways to smooth out the revenue can help alleviate the stress of unpredictable cash flow. Consider strategies like offering retainers, group coaching, or digital products to establish a more stable revenue base. This can help smooth out the highs and lows of your cash flow.
● Nurture Relationships: Stay in touch with past clients, even if you're not actively selling to them. Simple gestures like sending a handwritten note or a small gift can keep you top of mind for future opportunities.
● Align with Your Strengths: Build your business around what you enjoy and excel at. When your offerings align with your passions, it becomes easier to sell and maintain enthusiasm for your work.
Take Action
● Identify Revenue Patterns: Look for seasonal trends in your business. Recognize the months or periods that tend to be busier or slower, and plan your strategies accordingly.
● Create Consistent Income Streams: Explore options for establishing a steady base of income, such as offering retainer agreements, creating group coaching programs, or developing digital products that can be sold repeatedly.
● Nurture Past Client Relationships: Implement a system to stay in touch with past clients, whether through email marketing, or more personal outreach. This can help keep you top of mind for future opportunities.
● Leverage Your Strengths: Align your business strategies with your personal strengths and preferences. Focus on what energizes you to make selling easier and more enjoyable.
● Prepare for Lumpy Revenue: If you're considering transitioning from a corporate job to full-time entrepreneurship, assess your appetite for lumpy revenue. Create a financial plan that includes a savings runway or a solid customer base to mitigate the stress of unpredictable income.
🎧 If you're navigating the challenges of lumpy revenue or just looking for some inspiration, I encourage you to listen to this episode! Let's embrace the journey together and find ways to smooth out those lumps.
Lisa: And today we're talking about my humps, my hump, my hump, my hump, my lovely income lumps. Check it out. Priya, do you know what I'm referencing there?
Brea: I do. Is it Black Eyed Peas or is it just a Fergie thing or am I totally off?
Lisa: It's one of the two. I mean, it is Fergie's voice, whether it was Black Eyed Peas or Fergie solo, I'm not sure. You nailed it. If it's music, you know I've got a little bit of it. If you talk movies, forget it. I've got songs floating in my head all day, every day. So there you go. Yes.
Brea: So our lovely revenue lumps.
Lisa: Revenue lumps. We're talking about lumpy revenue, lumpy income, lumpy cash flow, lumpy demand. Some people even call these lumpy businesses. We're talking about these solo practices that many of us have, or small practices that are coaching, training, workshops, and they don't have predictable, steady, stable income, and it is the bane of the existence of many coaches. It freaks people out. They talk feast or famine. They don't know if it's normal. And they also want strategies for it. So, yeah, let's talk. I know you're going to want to define what we're talking about, Brea. So take us down the definition trail and then let's jump in.
Brea: I mean, honestly, you did such a great job. You used feast or famine. I think that's a great, like, that clues us into what we're talking about. It's unpredictable. You know, this is unpredictable cash flow. Maybe another term would be seasonal. This is often seasonal business. And I think This is something that we can all relate to because a lot of the work that we do as entrepreneurs, as consultants, as you know, whatever it is that you're doing, a lot of it is project-based, right? So obviously that's not a consistent cash flow.
There's a beginning and an end to that. And because we're selling into other markets that have slower sales cycles. In a previous episode, we talked about selling to corporate. That's maybe a longer, slower sales cycle than some other cycles. But there are cycles, there are seasons, there are longer lead times and shorter lead times.
There's such a reliance on other people, on referrals, on things that are outside of our control that lead to this kind of lumpy, bumpy life. So today I would love to talk about what are the lumps and bumps that we're experiencing because, first of all, I don't think we talk about it enough. People just feel like there's something wrong with them, you know, if they're not perfectly consistent and that's not true. So let's just call it what it is and say it's actually normal to experience this rollercoaster of revenue.
Lisa: Oh, rollercoaster revenue, there's another good one.
Brea: Yeah, and maybe can we talk about how to create some predictable, consistent revenue streams that make the highs and the lows, the peaks and the valleys a little bit more tolerable, right? I'm just laughing.
Lisa: It used to be on the inside, but it came out. I was trying to think of the name of that shapewear that people wear under their pants to smooth out the lumps. What is that called? The Spanx. We are coming up with Spanx for revenue.
Brea: Hey, I love it. I love it.
Lisa: Yes. And then, okay, you also, I wanted to just call out that this topic came up because you and I were talking And you were like, I don't know what's going on, but are you seeing this trend? There's a mega activity right now. And you were talking about the good, you know, the lumps, the ups, the good part. And I was laughing because I had just been on a call where people were like, have you seen this trend? There's such a retraction.
Everyone is freaking out and, you know, killing their budgets. And that is such a truth. in the peer groups that I've been in over a decade of doing this work, you get one person who is on a high and they are on a roll.
Then the next person is thinking the world is ending and we tend to assign our personal truths like that's what's going on for everyone and in every time, every time this goes on, you can look around and you can find examples of someone who's on the upper hump and somebody's on the lower hump.
Brea: Yes, and we need each other so much. That's why these communities are so important. Hopefully this podcast is helping to fill that need to recognize that when I'm down, someone else can lift me up or I can be so excited that someone else is having a good day, even if I'm not.
Then I can offer that energy when I'm on a high to someone else who might be on a low. And if we're both on a high, then we're sharing in that. And if we're both at a low, then we're sharing in that. So true.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. OK. Well, should we get right into smoothing the lumps? Or is there more to talk about before ideas and business models and strategies for getting some predictability?
Brea: Yeah, I want to talk about smoothing the lumps. I think Spanx for revenue is a very cool topic. And also, I kind of want to normalize the lumps. As a business owner, I don't mind the lumps. And I think part of that might be looking back and seeing, are there some patterns? Do I see that there are some seasons that are really high, some seasons that are slower?
Can you find those patterns? And if you can, let's just, let's, let's just call it what it is, you know, and then lean into the highs and, and figure out some strategies to make sure you're, you're covered during the lows. It's okay to be lumpy and bumpy, is what I think I'm trying to say. And accepted. Yeah. I remember in 2023, I was expecting about three months of, I knew it was just going to be slower, where I'm not traveling as much, is what I mean by that.
The work that I was doing was pretty much all virtual at the time. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go home to Kansas City and I'm gonna be near my family. I've got five nieces who I just love to pieces and why not go be near them for little things like baking cookies, going to pumpkin patches and showing up for sports games and Christmas recitals and all the things that I don't normally get to do when I'm living states away. So that's what I mean is sometimes the lumps and bumps can be to our advantage if you can just accept it and then make it work for you, you know?
Lisa: Yes, I like that. And you were also making me think about how some lumps become predictable. So I would say over my 11 years in business, There are a couple of patterns that are pretty common, and that is October is super busy. People are using up their budgets, their corporate budgets, and they're trying to cram it in before the holidays.
Then, and it might be 4x a typical month. Then November, you get a little bit of that carryover, and then it drops off for US Thanksgiving. And then, forget it, December is just going to be low. So that has been something I accepted from the beginning because I knew that from being in talent development teams and learning teams in corporate. I just knew that was how it went as far as workshops and events. And that was fine. And so December was either restful family time or if you have a month to develop something, oh, I want to create an online course, that December would be a great time.
I know if I want to leave the business for three weeks and not reply to an email, that's the time of year to do it. Especially, yeah, that week between Christmas and New Year's and then January is going to explode. So that's a trend that even though it's lumpy, it feels very predictable to me at this point.
Brea: Yeah. Yeah. And also that week between Christmas and New Year's, that's a huge week for me because the individual customers that I'm working with are not working at their jobs. You know, they have free time that they don't normally have. They have downtime and they have mental space in a way that they don't normally have when they're in the hustle bustle of the nine to five workday schedule. So they're much more open. Like that week is like, huge for VIP days or retreats or whatever it is that I'm offering that year.
That's one of my biggest weeks every year because I lean into it, you know, and I create an offering for that. So it really is just kind of looking at the lumps and bumps of the market and looking at the lumps and bumps, you know, in your own business and just deciding, do I want to smooth this out? Do I want to lean into it? Do I want to make the peaks and valleys even greater? You know?
Lisa: Yes. Yeah, the deciding. Oh my gosh, you're hitting on it. It's so important because the same phenomenon that is going on the week between Christmas and New Year's, you're taking it and using it to make an uptick. And I'm using it to say, oh, if everyone's gone, this is amazing. No one will expect an email. This is a time I can really go dark and no one minds. So we're doing an opposite thing with it, with the lump. And that's good. And we both love what we're doing with it. That's such a cool one because it just proves that point out where one person is like, wow, are you seeing this mega bump? And the next person is like, whoa, I'm taking such a dip. Is everyone seeing this?
Brea: Yeah, that's right. That's right. If you're experiencing some lumps and bumps, just know that you're not alone and you're not without hope. There's always an opportunity.
Lisa: Yes. Well, let's talk about some of the things we've done to smooth lumps. So if you have ups and downs, but you have a bread and butter level that comes in, you don't mind the lumps because the bottoms become what used to be the top. That is a key to my strategy in I'm not caring as much about smoothing out lumps.
I'm caring about raise the bottom level so that there's no freak out about bare minimum. There's no freak out about the bottom. I want the bottom to be steady and then the spikes at the top, that's great. That can come in. That's okay with me. How about you? What's your perspective there?
Brea: Well, I agree, and this is something that I'm not naturally good at, and I think you are naturally good at and have just done such a great job of smoothing out that base. I mean, there were a couple years in my business when I didn't even know what that base was. So if you haven't started your business yet or if you are in the beginning stages, start there. Figure out what is your bare minimum and find some more consistent income, some passive revenue or some evergreen stuff or whatever to like give you that base so that the low doesn't feel as low.
Lisa: Right, right, right. OK, so let's talk what we really did. I'll also throw in some ideas of things that I didn't do, but I see other coaches do that I love. But personally, what I did, so again, this is like Lisa strengths aligned. So as a listener, think about your strengths and match it up. For me, I love workshops. Those were my bread and butter. Also, speeches are great. So think of me as an event based person.
I knew the downside to that is if I'm doing a bunch of one off events, That's not a consulting engagement that I have a contract signed for four years. If you could do that, that would be a version of consulting that would smooth the lumps. But I knew that isn't what I wanted. I didn't want to do that level of project management. I wanted to be in, be out, be done. And that feels enlivening to me. But I knew that would mean selling over and over and over again.
One of the things I did with that strength in mind and that desire in mind is I targeted corporate where I could find customers that have big talent academies or learning academies. And they could book many events at a time. So I would get people who would say, OK, let's book 20 for the year in January. And I had several of those customers. So I would have dozens of events just lined up ready to go from these academies because we would offer the same program over and over again to different audiences.
And that was a way for me to be a spark and not have projects to manage and not have deliverables hanging over my head, which didn't feel like they aligned with my strengths and desires. and also kind of have that base come in where I felt really comfortable that the base revenue was going to be great. So there's one strategy, talent academies.
Brea: Yeah. Anytime you can sell one thing and have it repeat over time. I mean, what a great strategy, right? I'm like you, Lisa, you know, I love events and I like getting in and getting out and not having those long commitments.
I love retainers when you can get them from a sense of, I love working with internal coaches who are, you know, they're championing the strengths effort at their company, but it's just one of the hats that you're wearing, you know? You've got so many other things going on. I love being that person in your pocket, that coach that you can rely on when you need a coach, when you need, some extra hands when you, you know, you're onboarding a lot of people and you just need a few extra coaching hours, but you're not looking to bring a coach on, you know, for long term.
You just need a little bit of extra juice for a little bit of time. I love being that person and I can create a retainer for that. and just kind of level out that bottom floor, like you're saying, and still honor my talents of being able to flex and adapt and respond as needed, gives me the variety and the consistency, you know, at the same time.
Lisa: Beautiful. Yeah. And Retainer, endless creativity there. You could do so many things on Retainer.
Brea: So fun. So fun.
Lisa: OK, that also made me think of filling a coaching book of business for one-on-one coaches. If you have packages and you're a one-on-one coach, you could fill your book of business and get to the point that you're filled and you have a waitlist. And that would be a way of smoothing the lumps. Of course, it would require selling and marketing and ongoing work. You can't sit back on your laurels when you're full or close to full. You have to kind of overdo it to keep people on wait lists, but that's a really good way to smooth it out if you're a one-on-one coach. Of course, you could do group coaching that has longer programs.
Like if you have a year-long program, maybe they're on a payment plan that charges them once a month for the year instead of a one time. And just think of the image of that revenue. If they paid you in January for 12 months worth of work, would you rather have that spike of having it up front or would you rather have it leveled out over a 12-month payment plan?
That's up to you to decide what you prefer there. Some would much prefer to have it up front. Some would much prefer to have the steadiness. So it doesn't mean lumpy is bad. I mean, a lump can be a super spike and that can be amazing and you might desire that.
Brea: Yeah, getting people to pay up front. I love that.
Lisa: Okay, another one that popped up for me is digital products. One of the things that I started doing years ago is if I created a cool workbook or some activity guides or some resources that would be follow-ups to a workshop, if I'm already going to create content that is new, which my individualization loves to do.
One of the things I decided to do with myself is kind of like rules for life is, hey, you're going to indulge this individualization that loves to create new stuff. You better make it worth it. And maybe Maximizer's kicking it. Make it worth it. So can you resell this as a standalone product? Then those things are living on and serving customers and they're smoothing for you.
Brea: Mm-hmm. You know, something else that I did not do very well for a while that when I started doing it made a huge difference is nurturing relationships with past clients. My talents are just, you know, high futuristic, high strategic, high activator, high a lot of things that are thinking forward, moving forward. So looking back is just not something that that I do naturally.
Once I was done, I was done. So again, learn from my mistakes and stay in touch with people, even if you're not selling to them. I love sending handwritten cards. I love just a a small like Starbucks e-gift card, you know, I can text that to someone and just say, hey, like coffee's on me today, or even just an email or, you know, it doesn't have to be a gift.
It could be anything to just kind of stay in touch because you never know when they might want to be sold to, you know, or they might, might need you again. And if you don't stay top of mind, then you're not on their mind. Whether that's an email list, you know, like Lisa's really great at or I have my own creative relational ways of staying top of mind, like put in the effort. It's worth it.
Lisa: Yes. Okay. I just have to build on that one. because I am the evergreen queen and I love email marketing software and how that can be used to deliver. You can use that software to deliver training. So I have the rest of the training, these activation courses that are delivered from my email marketing software. It's just a way of sending content out.
From there, I have these nurture sequences that stay in touch for more than two years. after that initial contact. And I can't tell you how many times someone is way into it. They might be over a year into receiving a thing and then they go, Oh, we're doing a team summit. Are you available on June 15, 2027? I mean, they just pick a date out of it. It feels like it comes out of nowhere, but it didn't come out of nowhere. It's systematically in there. And that has been incredible for me, smoothing out the lumps.
Brea: Oh gosh, there's just so much on my mind right now. I think I just want to say when we're talking about revenue, when we're talking about income, when we're talking about the highs and the lows and all of this conversation, it's so easy to attach our worth to the numbers that we're seeing on the screen or that we're not seeing on the screen.
I just want to encourage anyone that's listening to detach who you are, just to detach that from the data that you're seeing on the screen. Like you are not your business, you know? And if, if the market is changing, if the politics are changing, if, if you're seeing a down month, that doesn't mean you're a bad person or you're a bad business owner. It just means that this is happening and that's okay. So I guess I just am feeling inspired to speak that over people that are listening.
Lisa: Because you know it happens so often. When I'm listening, I hear what you're saying and I'm thinking of the words and I'm like, lumpy revenue happened. Lumpy income happens.
Brea: Yes.
Lisa: Lumpy. And that's a thing. Like, you can just look at it and go, OK, that is a picture. It's on a chart. And there are plenty of business strategies that can address it. So if you see a trend you don't like, cool. You can come up with a business strategy that can smooth it out. Work with a coach who can help you smooth it out. Great. We all have the ability to build these businesses that are incredible and serve us. It's just an experiment.
I feel like all of this is an experiment in aligning what makes the business go and what makes you go with your strengths and your values. It's just that constant messing with the dials and finding the experiments so that the business strategy, the revenue that comes in, your personal preferences, they can all find alignment. And sometimes it takes several years to play around and find all of that. And meanwhile, yeah, give yourself a break.
You're building your selling skills. You're figuring out all this software. You didn't know you were going to become a full-time marketer and salesperson and you're delivering on the work and you're trying to find a business strategy that there's a lot going on when you're in those first years of business. So have a play with it.
Brea: Yes. And yes, all of that, rewind, listen to it again. Yes. And realize that even when you think you finally got it, like things will change. What worked for me seven years ago doesn't work for me today. You know, like not all the time, not in all the ways. So when things happen that are different, like the whole impetus for this conversation was my Vox to Lisa that said, Why all of a sudden are these people that have been ghosting me for literally years?
I have a client that I can now call them a client because they have paid me to come and do some work for them. But it's been eight plus years that I have been pursuing them, nurturing them. And then all of a sudden it's like, boom, we're ready. Some of those people are coming out of the woodworks. And so you just never know why some things hit when they do and some things don't. So just expect the unexpected, know that lumps and bumps are part of it.
It doesn't mean that something is broken or wrong. It just means that this is happening. And how do we approach it? How do we respond? Those are the skills and talents to learn and to grow in yourself as a human and as a business owner because everything else is changing. Technology changes so fast. You know, what works with the algorithm today, in a few months it's going to be different.
Build your offerings around things that you enjoy delivering and want to sell because if you like it and you want to do it, then it's easier to sell, you know? So, um, that's it. I'll get off my pedestal, but I love this conversation so much. Yes.
Lisa: Yeah. The mind exploding emoji. Like if you love it, you're going to bring an amazing energy around it and it's going to make it so much easier to sell if it aligns with you. So yeah, I think that alignment part and the worthiness thing that you brought up is an important undercurrent in this thing.
Okay, I thought of a closing thought and it's a new idea, so I think it is important for those people who are side hustling or they are still in their corporate job but they have been dreaming of leaving and doing the coaching, workshopping, speaking kind of thing full time. This idea of lumpy revenue and whether you have an appetite for it is a consideration that's valuable to have before you decide to leave and put that in your plans, whether that means you have a longer savings runway.
If you can get that level one covered so that the things that are on top of it are good, get that level one customer base. Prove to yourself that you can sell something, that you know what your product is, that you have your basic website up, those kind of things. That can be very helpful in bolstering that fear part that comes when people launch and leave.
It feels like The lumps are smoothed out before it's all on the line. So that's not something everybody needs to do but for someone like me that that would have helped a lot if I had two years to Make my business idea get things sold get the strategies going get all the nurture going that would have been Incredible for me to get rid of a lot of stress and fear. I had just going straight out of the gate
Brea: Yeah, totally. My crowdfunding campaign did a little bit of that, you know, in the fact that I was able to launch with a hundred coaching sessions paid for, you know, but nothing else was done. I mean, it was just completely building the plane as we tried to get it off the ground.
A hundred percent, if I would have had the opportunity to give myself more runway, I mean, my goodness, I could have gone so much further faster. So two thumbs up, like I'm raising all my hands and all my feet, all my toes. I'm scared of two toes up.
Lisa: What did I even say? I don't even know. Two thumbs up. Two toes up. I mean, drop the mic with that. That is where you end - with that visual. We'll see you all later. I'm thinking of Brea's toes right now. Bye for now.
● Embrace the journey: Every entrepreneur has their own unique path to success. And it doesn’t happen overnight. Whether you stumble into it or plan meticulously, what matters is that you keep showing up.
● Use your strengths: Instead of following what others say you should do, focus on what feels authentic and enjoyable for you.
● Don’t fear imperfection: It’s okay to experiment, pivot, and change your business model as you learn what works best for you.
● Community is key: Finding a supportive community can help you build belief in your abilities and access resources to navigate challenges.
● Assess and Adapt: Regularly step out to evaluate your business. What’s working? What’s not? This reflection can help you make informed decisions about your business direction so you can grow with intention and maximize your impact.
● Do it scared: Sometimes, the best opportunities arise when we least expect them. If you're feeling stuck or hesitant, remember that action often leads to clarity.
🎧 Tune in to the full episode to hear more about our personal stories, the challenges we faced, and the lessons we've learned along the way. Whether you're a seasoned coach or just starting out, there's something in this episode for everyone!
I’d love to hear your thoughts on these takeaways and your own coaching origin stories. Share your experiences in the comments or connect with me on LinkedIn! Let’s keep the conversation going!
Lisa: Hi, I'm Lisa. And I'm Brea. And in today's episode, we're going to talk about Sunday night heart palpitations. Oh my gosh.
Brea: Wait, what happened on Sunday?
Lisa: I mean, actually, we're talking about starting a coaching business. That is part of my origin story. Instead of it being from starting a coaching business, it led me to start a business. But I just thought that was Yeah. Just a little teaser.
Brea: Yes. Like you were not looking forward to Monday. So you were getting stressed out.
Lisa: Well, you would think. But I would literally have this every single week in the job that I was in. And I loved my team and the CFO that I reported to. Like, it was just super cool on so many levels. And the role was a bad fit for me. And I literally had severe palpitations every Sunday night. And I would just I would sit on the couch and I would do breathing exercises. And you would think that I would, being such a health nut, that I would care about my cardiovascular health or otherwise. But it took a moment where my husband was actually in the room with me and he said, what was that? Because I had this hitch in my breath where I was like, and just trying to kind of breathe through the, the, the janky body systems. What was that? And I was like, sending out heart palpitations and he was like, uh, you need to quit. And he was like, you need to quit now. That is severe. And, and I was like, wait, are you serious? And he said, yeah. And I'm like, oh, um, that sounds really exciting, but I haven't planned anything. I don't know what I would do after this. And I am mega planner. I would totally have written it up differently, but I thought that would actually be a good part of this story because I didn't do it at all the way I would do it if I planned and I worked my regular system. But it was a time where a little intervention was called for and it took someone else noticing how bad it was for me to do the wake up.
Brea: Wow. Okay. I like this. I mean, it's just so good to hear what other people have gone through. And I know that there are other people that are listening that have had a similar palpitation or a similar hesitation of just, I've thought about going for it, but I just, I don't have all my ducks in the row. I, I'm not quite there yet, you know, and very different experience on my end, but also similar in the way of, If I knew then what I know now, I probably definitely would not have done it the way that I did it. No preparation, you know, I mean, really, it was bootstrapped from ground zero. So similarities and differences in our story. Yeah, this is exciting. Okay.
Lisa: I think this is a fun conversation for listeners because just like you said, some people are in the midst of the heart palpitations. Some people have been wanting to leave for 10 years, but they can't figure out like what it actually means. How do you know when your ducks are in a row? And some people are busy kind of filling their minds with this. But hey, like I've met people who had a pension and then they retired and they had money coming in forever. And they could use that to fund the business and not be scared. Or you must have had a buku bucks saved up, ready to go. And that made you confident. And I don't have the advantages that other people have. And the truth is, for a lot of us, it just takes courage, I would totally be the person who had preferred a plan. I would have done it absolutely differently. I would have spent a year or two figuring all those things out up front, because that would feel great to me. But it's not how it turned out that night, the heart palpitation night. We actually stayed up really late, which is odd for me. I'm like a be in bed by 10 o'clock kind of person. And it was one of those, like, stay up until 1 a.m. talking about all the things, like, what if I don't sell anything? Am I going to make us lose the house? What is the repercussion if I'm terrible at this? What if it all goes wrong? When it came down to it, after fast forward through like four hours of what's the worst that could happen, my answer was, if I lose it all, we'll go live in an RV. We're going to be camp hosts at some beautiful state park and life's going to be fine. And that never came true. But it did give me it gave me the confidence to to be like, all right, I'm not going to suffer and starve literally.
Brea: Yeah, that's so interesting, because that conversation would have sent me running for the hills. I would have been scared out of my mind and never would have jumped. But for me, I didn't have the luxury of even asking myself those questions. I accidentally fell into being a business owner. And that's the honest to God truth, I never set out to like open my own business. I had an unfortunate series of just a lot of instability in different jobs. And at one point a contract was ending and I was just like, what am I going to do next? And strengths had always been something that I was very passionate about. I've used strengths in different jobs, different companies, different capacities on my own, but never really explored being a coach or doing that as a career, let alone owning my own business and doing that full time. That was never a part of my thought process until There was no next step. And it just so happened that the very next week after my contract ended was the certification course to become a strengths coach in Omaha. I was living in Omaha at the time. I walked out of one job and into the certification course and I was like, I know this is my next step. How was I gonna use that? I have no idea, but I'm gonna do it. How am I gonna pay for that? I have no idea. I've been a missionary for four years. I'm not making a lot of money. I don't have a lot in savings. So do you know what I did? I crowdfunded $10,000 to pay for my certification. And I went into my certification course with 100 paying clients, people who paid in exchange for coaching. So think of it like a pre-sell. They were on the books. I came out of that certification and I coached a hundred people in less than 60 days. And they were all different kinds of people. Stay at home moms, students, couples, professionals, people who were in job transition, people who were in the C-suite, people who were business owners, people who were individual contributors. I mean, I got so much experience right out of the gate and built the business just because I could, you know, one step at a time.
Lisa: Yeah, and in the what went well column, I am hearing this brilliant thing that happened out of your creativity. And desperation, okay. Which does create a lot of stamina and motivation, right? Yes. That thing that happens often with coaches setting up their business and they are like, I don't know what I want to specialize in. I don't know what my niche is. I don't know what I love the most. And you coming out having a hundred people in 60 days. You got exposed to that wide swath of types of people and types of coaching that you just described. What a brilliant way to get in there and actually experience it. Because you're only guessing and hypothesizing. Like, if I would have picked my niche, and I would have done my year or two planning, doing all the things, I would have been guessing, and I know I would have guessed wrong, and I would have remade a lot of it, because I did that anyhow after I created it. What a beautiful way to get a head start on clarity of what you like and what aligns with your strengths.
Brea: You know, it, it did bring a lot of clarity. Even more than that, it brought a lot of practice. You know, I just got a lot of reps really, really fast, which also brought a lot of confidence. And the thing that I love the most about crowdfunding was my life before strengths was a lot of marketing and sales and being a missionary. So by running this crowdfunding campaign, people seeing me every day posting different things about the campaign and strengths and all the things. Like, people knew Brea as the strengths girl, right? Instead of Brea the missionary or Brea, however we first, you know, connected and came to know each other, they knew about this change. So it was possible for me to make this. Not even a career pivot. I mean, this is a huge jump a huge change and I was able to bring people along because They were part of it. They were the bridge that got me there. So if you're listening and you were Part of that go for Brea campaign. Thank you so much because look at what we did It's amazing.
Lisa: Go Team Brea. That is so cool. I definitely would mark that in the What Went Well column on about four different tallies. That's great. And I did mine differently, but I think we were both using our strengths for this What Went Well category. So I started a podcast and I felt really comfortable. This was early days of podcast. It was actually called Pinch Yourself Careers. I thought I was going to do more career transition coaching. And that is what the original name of this podcast was. It was the name of the business entity. And I'm just bringing this up because people are like, oh my gosh, I got the name wrong. I got the thing wrong. Me too. Me too. This podcast was totally a different niche than I ended up choosing. Pinch Yourself Careers, very different from the CliftonStrengths focus of today. When they were in career transition, I asked people, hey, What questions do you have? If you are in a career transition or you know someone in a career transition, send it through and then I'm doing Q&A and they would send an audio question through or even just a one sentence question and I would answer it in the podcast. So, I thought it was a really cool way to get the word out that I was playing in that space and I didn't have to have my sales pitch refined yet. I didn't have to have all that sitting down yet. It was, I was self-sponsoring my own podcast. And I was adding value out in the world. And people were getting to know me for being a career coach, then later, people development coach, then later specifically, team development and big corporate with CliftonStrengths, with, with team dynamics through CliftonStrengths. So, It evolved, but it was very comfortable. And I think because I felt good going back to my existing network, and I had a big corporate network because I always kept in touch with people, that felt like a natural way to plug in, be of service, and also start to spread the word that I was out there on my own offering a service.
Brea: Yes, that's so great. That's a lot of ticks in your win column as well, using what has worked for you in the past in the pivot that you made. I think that's awesome. I definitely relate with the feeling of, oh my gosh, what am I going to name my business? What is my brand going to look like? And what is my website going to look like? And I have to get it all right because This is what people are going to see and this is how they're going to think of me. I don't know the answers. I'm just figuring it out. So how can I do all those things? But I need those things. So like, oh my gosh, it's so overwhelming. It's OK. You can change your mind. I just want everybody listening to hear you just get started. It's really not that big of a deal what you call your business. It's really not. It feels that way, especially if you have communication. Number one, hi. I get it, but like it's really not that big of a deal. Just so true. Get out there and go.
Lisa: And even literally, like if you're in the U.S., not every listener is of course, but in the U.S. there's literally a thing called a doing business as. So on top of whatever entity you already bought, you set up a doing business as and you can add, you could have four of them. You can keep changing your name until you figure out who you are and then it's going to be fine. It is not a huge deal. It's not.
Brea: It's really not. I love that. You know, I have a lot of things in the I wish I would have done it differently column as well. Okay, so the crowdfunding campaign was playing to a lot of my strengths. And I'm believing what the internet is telling me. I'm getting sucked into all the things that I hear and read from all the other business owners and the social media influencers that are telling me I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to do it like this. I have to do it like that. What were some of the whispers that were getting you? Oh my gosh, I was spending hours a day creating graphics to post and finding the right words to make the perfect post that would convince people, influence people to go for Brea, right? To pledge toward the campaign. hours a day. I mean, that's exhausting. When I realized it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to get out there. And the easiest way for me to do that is talking. My talent is telling stories. My talent is on video. So I was just like, okay, Facebook Live, here we go. And I pushed a button and I would just talk and then it was done and it was out there and I couldn't edit it if I wanted to. So hours a day turned into minutes a day and the impact was so much greater. People were commenting and liking and sharing and pledging. The impact was there, the results were there when I started using my talents and stopped doing it like I thought that I should. So don't use my experience as a prescription of how you should move forward, but hear the underlying theme of use your talents to build your business and build your business around your talents. Create offerings that make sense for you because when you show up at your best, I mean, that's better for everyone else that you're serving.
Lisa: Yeah, that sounds so amazing. I could just feel the momentum shift, even though you're taking us back via story, but I could feel the difference like, oh, I'm spending hours worrying about it. It's the same today. We hear the same story from so many people who are like, oh, I just labor over trying to create the perfect social or get myself on video and I don't want to be on there, but I should do this. I should do that. This is the formula. And the great question, it's so obvious being a strengths coach, but even those of us going into strengths coaching, we forget to say, what would be fun? What would actually make us feel alive? And then, of course, you're going to attract people to you who want to be in your circle. That's the kind of customer you want to attract when you're at your best. So perfect. Yeah, that's right. I did very different things. So if we want to just give a contrast on not taking Breas as a prescription, and then what are some other ways people get started? I lead through Maximizer. And I lead through Strategic. And so I'm always thinking of things like, Every time I would ask myself the question, every time I would create something, I would say, How can I maximize this over and over again? Can I recycle content? Can I put things out there that are so timeless, someone could use it? four months later, and it's still just as relevant. If I'm going to go out on social media and post something, it's going to disappear out of an algorithm within 20 minutes. So why not use it over and over again? I had that thought from the beginning, and it felt so cool to use that as a filter from the beginning. And so if I'm going to make a podcast episode, then I'm going to turn that into a blog post as well. I'm going to turn that into email marketing. it's going to be content that someone could enter at any time five years into the future or today. And it's going to be just as useful for them. And I'm going to put together a series so that everything I do compounds on top of the next thing. And it's like baby steps, building one thing after the other thing after the other thing. And all you have to do is put one foot in front of the other. So from the beginning, I was really strategic about that. And it felt wise, even though it wasn't the fastest momentum, I knew it was wise. And I knew that it was exciting to be able to take something and reuse it. And it really, really worked. It got me out of a lot of pinches later when I needed to step away from the business. And then I was still showing up because I was showing up in automations. that I had created years before. But it also, I was like, this is going to add up, even if I'm really busy and I only have time to do something once a month or once every two weeks, everything matters. And years later, it looks like years worth of content. And it happened really slowly. If you want everything to be lined up and perfect, and that leads you to do nothing, it's better to do something regularly. And I think that's a great lesson for anybody who's starting up
Brea: That's right. I love so many things from what you shared. I want to dub you the evergreen queen. It's such like a, just a court to who you are. I don't know, hearing that, that was so natural for you, even from the very beginning. I think that that's a real superpower that you have. Yeah, that's cool.
Lisa: Thank you. Yeah, there was another one. I think that one really spoke to my maximizer. One that I would say I both did well and I would do differently is when I was picking what I would focus on and what the business model would be, I remember going through strengths and thinking, all right, I lead through activator. I lead through strategic. I lead through these fast moving talents. I do not like having open loops hang over my head. And so I just decided I love kickoffs. It's sales kickoff meeting. It's your team summit. It's your team retreat. I love doing them and people need them and have them. So that is a what went well column. What I would do differently, though, is I might think a little more deeply about What could I have done to serve those customers more actively without it being a consulting engagement? Because I kind of wrote it off, like, it's either going to be kickoff and I'm out, which felt good, or it's going to be kickoff leading into a giant engagement. And I didn't like the idea of a giant consulting engagement. So I think what I would do differently there is I would have come up with more strategies to go deep in service of that customer without it having to be a consulting model because I was acting like there are only two choices, this way or that way. But that meant every sale I have to start over. Every prospect is a new prospect. And sometimes you get, you get spinoff business, you get repeat business, you get things like that. But I could have been more strategic about leveraging the accounts that I already had trust with and already had a relationship with. So give me a win tally because it was aligned with my strengths, but also give me a ding that I allowed myself to have to start over with the selling process.
Brea: 100% that is my experience as well. And I am not surprised because we share some similar talents that I think are contributing to that pattern. But yes, I definitely wish that I would have put some more thought into how do I continue to nurture and maintain those relationships.
Lisa: So you've worked with a lot of coaches also, we both have. What do you see they wish they would do differently after they come in and they feel frustrated, they feel like an incompetent business person and they're about to leave and go back to their former work lives?
Brea: Wow, what a loaded question. You know, it might just be because I bring marketing experience, so these might be the kinds of coaches that I attract, but I hear a lot of, I need to be doing social media, I need to be doing email sequences, I need to be doing more of that, more marketing, more messaging. Which, yes, there is so much value in that. And also, I don't have an email list. I never have. Really? It sucked the life out of me. Yes.
Lisa: What? No email list?
Brea: Yes. I know. I know. It's a shocker, right? It's like a doctor whose kids never go to the doctor or whatever.
Lisa: I see an email marketing fan, Lisa, over here. I'm like, what? No way.
Brea: But here's the thing is I choose as a consumer don't love being on email lists. I don't like sitting behind my computer and doing it. And I also, because I have high communication and a lot of training around how to craft a message, I don't like paying people to do it because they're never going to nail my voice like I will. So, it's either I do it or nobody does it and I just choose to connect with people in other ways that feel better to me. So, that makes sense for me. It is possible to run a business without an email list. Yeah. There's a lot of value in having an email list and doing it well. But, you know, I also kind of stopped. I mean, I haven't done my Instagram in almost two years. I haven't posted anything. And that's a big like.
Lisa: No, no in the marketing world and still it's possible, you know to like grow a business media Yeah, social is not my level English It's funny because I love email marketing because I love the automation of it and all of the evergreen part being evergreen Queen But I the same reaction I had like, oh no, no email. I'm the same on social media where I'm on social media and There are so many ways. I mean, that's the thing. So many ways to do it. Yeah. It's just like we understand this about strengths. There are so many ways to get a thing done and it's the same. There are so many marketing channels. You can run ads. You could write a book. You can run challenges. You can do cold calling. You can go to in-person conferences. You could run it on an email list. You could have a great blog. You could have affiliate sales. sell for you. You could be an affiliate for somebody else as your full business model. You could be on older things that other people are off of like Telegram or Snapchat. I mean like. Carrier pigeon anybody?
Brea: You could.
Lisa: You totally could. You could be a podcast guest. You could be a podcast host. There are Dozens of ways you could build a business and they don't all have to be social media. I love that. Think of all the possible channels and especially for those of you who are listening who are like, yeah, I have three clients, but I need 30 to have a solid book of business. How did you get those three? What is your easiest channel? What is your most effective channel? And a lot of times that's your answer where to drill into because you probably like it and people have responded well to it. And meanwhile, you're over here thinking, oh my gosh, I have to be on social media or whatever you're putting yourself under pressure for. But your answer is over there and your three clients that you already attracted and why they came to you so naturally.
Brea: Right. Did they come to you from social media? No. Do they come from your email list that you don't have? No. Then why do you think you need those things? Where did they come from? What is working? Lean into that. Lean into that. That's something that I wish I would have done earlier in my business journey, but a lot of grace. I've learned as I've gone. It's fine. I wish I would have done more of that looking backward, even just once a year, but quarterly, kind of assessing where is my profit? Where's my revenue coming from? What is turning the biggest profit? Those are two questions I didn't ask myself until I was, I don't know, maybe three years into business. I had no idea where my clients were coming from. No idea, you know, and I was just, whatever was in front of me was what I was doing. And I, there was no strategy. It was all just reacting, which is in line with my talents. So it serves me in a way. And I have other talents that love to plan and could have, I mean, I have strategic number six. there was room to refine a little bit and build a little bit more intentionally. So look to your talents and look to what's in front of you.
Lisa: Yes, you have data right in front of you. Just start playing with numbers. What do I need? How do I need to do this to get people in and how many does it need to be? And if you already are attracting people into your funnel in some way, all you have to do is back into how you've already gotten customers and your answers will be right there.
Brea: That's right. Yep. And because you're the boss, like you can see the data in front of you and decide that you want to keep going in that direction. Or you can say, okay, that serves me to this point, but now I want to try something different. You know, you don't have to be scared about what you're going to find because the data is just information. It's just helping you make a decision. You know, I love one of your coaching questions is how can you add a zero? Yes. There's a great book out there called the 10x book. What's that called? How to how to 10x your business or something.
Lisa: Oh, it's the same thing. Adding a zero is 10xing. I didn't know. I don't know that book.
Brea: Oh, well, it's such a great question. How do you add a zero, right? It's also a good question for an upsell, downsell situation. You know, if you come in with, we'll just do a hundred bucks for easy math because my math does not math very well in my head. Let's say you're offering a coaching session for $100. You need an upsell and you need a downsell, right? So how can you add a zero or take away a zero to give them an easier step up or an easier step down if that signature offer or that standard is not working for them?
Lisa: So many things we've learned along the way. Math dreaming is a thing. Obviously, I've told Brea about my Add a Zero challenge before. This started off, at the time, the biggest contract I had ever sold was $29,000. And I was like, $29,700. So what I have to add to sell a package for $297,000. So I went off and sold a package for $297,000. One single transaction. Come on! Yes! Yes, but I had to dream it up first, you to say like, what value would have to be added? And how can I say it to us with a straight face? And who would I have to say it to? And what conditions would have to be present for them to want to buy it? But then I've also done the thing where I'm like, what's a $300 product that would just be super easy, that would be really attainable for somebody who doesn't have a budget, that would be a nice add-on. So going lower ticket, higher ticket, play with the math, play with the numbers. I swear it's fun. It can be fun.
Brea: It can be fun. Absolutely.
Lisa: You're like, yeah, yeah, that sounds great.
Brea: No, it can be. And I think this goes in the, I wish I would have done this sooner or known this sooner category. It's so easy for us to just get caught up in the moving forward. The momentum is here. We find ourselves working on this or saying yes to a project. And so then we just kind of keep moving in the direction that we're going. You'll never get to that $290,000 contract if you don't give yourself permission to shoot for it. If you don't give yourself the target, you're not going to get there. That's not going to fall in your lap. I mean, never say never, but that's never going to happen. So take some time every now and then to step out and allow yourself to see where you are in your business today and then dream about where you want to go, what could be. And if you're stuck in that place right now, you haven't started your business yet and you're just in the dreaming phase and you're thinking, gosh, wouldn't it be amazing if I could start this business and here are my aspirations. You got to take the first step. You know, you got to, you got to get into the business. So I think that's my biggest takeaway. If you're in the business, Try to take a step out every now and then. Or maybe you're outside of the business, you're thinking about a business, you need to take a step in. Wherever you are today, just give yourself some time to also step in or step out.
Lisa: Yes, yes. And I will piggyback on that and say, closing thoughts here. Along the lines of what Brea was talking about, if you're not taking the time to dream and you don't have anyone else to dream with, it makes it more difficult to believe it's possible. So if I were to start over, I would do something like my tools for coaches membership, where you can spend a hundred bucks a month and you're in the presence of these other amazing coaches who have incredible businesses. They're living the dream already. And you can build your belief because you're like, Oh my gosh, they're already doing all those things that I thought I just imagined, but people are actually buying that they're doing it. And And it is such great motivation to both get inspired by them, build your belief from them, learn together. It's, it's really an incredible process. So if you have trouble believing, because you're not going to live into it until you believe it, if you have trouble with some of that belief, come join a group like my Tools for Coaches group. Just go to LeadThroughStrengths.com, click on Tools for Coaches. And we will help you because we will show you how we're living it out in all different ways.
Brea: I love that. I was never short on the belief. I believed in things that I had no business believing. I had no business for reality. I was never short on belief, but I wish I would have asked for help if I had known then what I know now. This community of coaches is just incredibly generous, and we are so much better together than we are alone. I had every belief that I could do it, that I would do it, that it was going to work out, that the world needs what I can offer. I mean, that was never a question. But how to do it, I had no idea. I mean, I really just built the plane as I was flying and I could have asked for more help. I could have reached out and I didn't know that. So if you feel alone, you are not alone. And you have two people here who would love to Love to come alongside you and be your cheerleader, provide resources, connect you to other people, other resources. So please, if that's you, go ahead and reach out to Tools for Coaches with Lisa or just come to my website. We can get on a call and see how I might be able to help you or connect you with the resources that you're looking for. That would be awesome.
Lisa: Go to BreaRoper.com. What if you want to coach? who will dream with you, who won't tell you your dream is stupid, who will help you build on what you already have and align your strengths to it. Brio would be so perfect for that.
Brea: Thanks.
Lisa: Now for the listeners, it would be so fun to hear other people's coaching origin stories, coaching backstory. How did you get started? So come over to LinkedIn and share yours.
Brea: I love that. Well, as they say in the music business, that's a wrap.
Here are three key takeaways that stood out during our conversation:
● The 5 “P”s of Selling to Corporate: Selling to corporate clients can be a different ballgame compared to smaller businesses. We discussed five specific challenges, including prospecting, people, processes, paperwork, and pricing.
From finding the right person to talk to, to the often lengthy procurement processes that can feel overwhelming…it's crucial to be prepared for the red tape and to understand the internal dynamics of the organizations you're targeting. Knowing who has the decision-making power and how to navigate the paperwork can make all the difference in your success.
● Financial Surprises: One of the biggest surprises for many new to the corporate world is the financial aspect. From insurance requirements to payment terms that can stretch out for 90 days or more, it's essential to factor these into your pricing strategy.
We emphasized the importance of pricing your services in a way that accounts for these unexpected costs and delays, ensuring that you remain profitable while building strong relationships with your clients.
● The Ripple Effect of Corporate Work: Despite the challenges, working with corporate clients offers incredible potential for impact. The ability to reach a large number of employees and make a difference in their work lives is a powerful motivator.
We shared personal experiences of how corporate engagements can lead to repeat business and even opportunities for global travel, enriching both your professional and personal life.
Take Action
● Research Corporate Client Needs: Take the time to understand the specific needs and expectations of corporate clients in your industry. This includes familiarizing yourself with common processes, procurement requirements, and potential red tape.
● Prepare for Financial Surprises: Account for unexpected costs such as insurance policies, software fees, and extended payment cycles when pricing your services. Ensure your pricing reflects these potential surprises to maintain profitability.
● Identify Key Decision-Makers: Develop a strategy for finding and connecting with the right people within corporate organizations. Understand the hierarchy and decision-making processes to streamline your sales efforts.
● Leverage Existing Networks: Utilize your current connections and past experiences to identify potential corporate clients. Attend networking events and engage with local businesses to expand your reach.
● Stay Adaptable and Open-Minded: Be prepared for changes in corporate structures, such as turnover in key positions, which can affect ongoing contracts. Maintain flexibility in your approach and be ready to pivot as needed.
If you're looking to expand your business into the corporate sector or simply want to learn more about the nuances of this market, this episode is a must-listen!
🎧 Tune in now and let us know your thoughts! What benefits and challenges have you faced in selling to corporate clients? Share your experiences in the comments below!
Lisa: And today's episode is all about selling to corporate clients. Whether we're talking about coaching, speaking, training, workshops, facilitation, all of those kind of services in a corporate marketplace. Brea, this one I'm like, oh, I'm totally comfortable. This is my jam. Corporate is my bag.
Brea: And I'm just here with my paper and my pen ready to take notes and learn from the master, you know? This is so juicy. This is so good.
Lisa: is like, that isn't the market I'm focused on. Okay. But I think you bring really great stuff because I know you do have corporate clients and I know we've talked about them over the years and it will do a lot for our listeners just to be able to hear from two perspectives, somebody who's absolutely focused on corporate and somebody who isn’t.
And then what the experience is when we're in that process of talking to a prospective customer, what the surprises are, what the road bumps are. I think it's really important to have this conversation. For one point alone, if I could share some experiences where people can see the financial surprises.
Like you get the gig and then they're like, oh, we need to see your insurance policy with the $3 million limits. Oh, we need you to pay $13 a month for your software to get paid because that's what happens with our procurement software. Oh, it's going to take 14 hours to get through the procurement paperwork.
Those things aren't built into people's prices because they have no idea they're going to run into those on the other side. So that part of the surprise makes this whole conversation worth it.
Brea: Yeah. In case people don't know, my background is not in corporate. It never has been until I started my own coaching and consulting business and wanted to start selling to corporate clients. But I personally don't have any background there. And so at first I was like, oh my gosh, corporate, you know, big starry eyes emoji because you're looking for what I'm selling.
So it's just going to be so easy to sell. And then I was just like, I just don't love this process of trying to sell into corporate. And even I think delivering to corporate clients has been a very different experience versus delivering to a smaller business or a smaller nonprofit. So I'm excited to dive in.
Lisa: Not just selling, even the delivery. Oh my gosh. Can we start on the positive? What gives the starry eyed emoji? I can't say the word emoji today. That's funny. What's exciting about it? Like, why do we even try if there is going to be a lot of red tape? Why go through the red tape?
Brea: Yeah, well, for me, it seems like two things. Financial, right? They have budgets, their budgets are big, and they're looking for the services that we're offering. So it's not a heart of a cell, you know, theoretically, right.
There's a credibility to put a corporate logo on my website as a client that I've served looks really good to other potential buyers. So. I think those are the two things that first attracted me.
Lisa: Yeah, I'll agree with those. Those are amazing. And it's definitely proven true. You know, people go to leadthroughstrengths.com and they scroll to the bottom of the homepage and they're like, Ooh, look at all those logos. That is good for being able to sell people in the future.
The financial part of it could be really cool. There have been a lot of customers over the years where they have big corporate academies and they'll offer a program on repeat inside of a corporate training academy. And it is just business that comes back and comes back and comes back. So there may be a little more difficulty in getting in up front. And then once you're in, there can be some ease of repeat business that is really cool. There's an upside for me. I think this would be true for any of us.
If you learn that you're working with a customer who has 100,000 employees and you think, how powerful the work is that we do and that you could reach that many people through your work. It feels amazingly efficient and beautiful to be able to have that ripple effect in the world. So it just feels great, the upside in all the ways.
Brea: Yeah, so much potential, so much potential.
Lisa: Exactly. Personally, I've been able to travel to 15 different countries delivering our work. And that's very enriching personally as well. So getting to see the global experience, it makes you better at your craft because you're facilitating in all kinds of different environments and cultures.
And also, what a gift to be able to travel for work like that. So that's been a fun benefit as well.
Brea: Yes, I love all those things. I think also for those of us who are strengths coaches and use Gallup's CliftonStrengths assessment, I mean, it's designed for corporate teams. You know, like that's where it started. Obviously not the only place that it can be applied, but it's such a natural fit there.
Working in corporate training, even though you get all these fancy trips around the world or, you know, whatever, like it's hard. We need a little a little spark and we need to approach our work differently.
We deserve to enjoy our work, you know, and to show up and be able to do what we do best every day. People need what it is that we're offering. So it's a real opportunity for us to go in and, and make real impact, you know, and really help people live good, full lives.
Lisa: Yeah, yeah. If we're selling to corporate clients, we're in there thinking from the corporate client perspective, hey, we can help you have employees who are fully engaged, who are reaching their highest potential, who are working in their efficiency zone.
There are a lot of really good business reasons. So I think it's a great match. We know our services can be of value and how cool when you can touch the individual who also works there and make their human experience better.
Brea: Yeah, yeah, love it.
Lisa: So what are some of the surprises you've run into, Brea when you've been talking with a corporate client as a prospect, when you're in those early stages, what have you run into that's notable?
Brea: Well, so many things. I mean, I've learned the hard way, you know, let me, let me be honest, but everything was a surprise to me, because I literally had no experience going into it. I think It was so surprising to me how hard it was because in my mind, I was like, Oh, this is such an easy match.
And it, it wasn't, it's so hard to find the right person to talk to. It's hard to get them on the phone, you know, or on the zoom or on the calendar there, their time is very, very full, you know? And so to get to the right person and then to get their time was surprisingly harder than I thought. I was surprised by, again, all the red tape, just, oh my gosh, my little activator.
I was just like, this is taking too long. I can't. I love that about small businesses is I can talk to the owner. I can just walk in there a lot of times, you know, and talk to the owner and we can put something on the books for the next day, you know?
I was surprised by how long the process was. from the very first prospecting call to the finished product. Oh, there's so many things that surprised me, but another big one is how it felt like, I don't know, how do I say it?
From my perspective, it felt like they wanted a lot of my time and a lot of like free, like the interview process, you know, or as you kind of work through the chain, you, you end up talking to several different people, you know, as you're, continue to pursue the lead.
And they want you to, you know, meet with a small team and do a, you know, a 30 minute webinar or whatever. And I'm like, what? Like, no, I charge for this. Don't you know? So things like that.
Lisa: Yeah, you have to find out who else is involved in the decision and who has veto power on the budget and what budgets matter. One of the surprises I experienced, this is why I experienced it many times, is some corporate clients have these things called an accumulation period.
So let's say you set your billing to be Net 30. That means you send your invoice and it's due in 30 days. They will say, well, we do Net 90. So we only pay every 90 days and we have a 90 day accumulation period. Yeah, like double surprise. 90 days and the accumulation period over which we're collecting all of the paperwork.
So really, they're saying we pay you six months after the gig. And that for most individuals who are getting started in the early years is a long time to wait. And then people don't expect it. And they're like, oh, my gosh, are they Not paying me? Do I have to chase this? I've had some of the biggest names, Fortune 50 names in the world. One took over one year to pay.
It wasn't because they weren't trying to pay. It was because one person who worked on just a regular old operations team out there, she didn't know how to navigate the internal procurement, how to get a PO, how to get it paid. She didn't know she needed a PO. She didn't know the paperwork. Because that's not what they do on a daily basis.
This just started off as a team who wanted to do a team building. And by the time we figured it all out, it was a year into it. is so much. So I would put that out there. If you're early on and you think you want to serve and sell into corporate clients, make sure you are accounting for things like you're going to have to buy insurance policies and show them.
And then once you've purchased your insurance policies and you've paid a couple thousand dollars, oh, then they're going to say, you need to add us as additional insured. And if you don't have this in your policy, that might be a couple hundred dollars to add that. Oh, then you have to pay to be in our software, to be able to get paid.
You're going to fill out 14 hours worth of procurement paperwork. There might be a year long closing cycle or there might be a one day closing cycle. You don't know what you're going to get.
So a lot of surprises come up like you close the deal and then they say, oh, by the way, are you going to show up with a PowerPoint? Are you going to use a deck? And if you say yes, then they say, oh, well, every deck in our organization has to conform to these brand standards. And they send you a 100 page document and a template and you're like, I don't even use PowerPoint. My deck's designed somewhere else.
And why would you have a vendor put their stuff in your deck's format? And why wouldn't you just close it up front? Because that's going to take six hours. Those are the surprises you just have to be ready for and you have to have a price that you're satisfied enough with that when those surprises come up, you don't have to be like, well, if this, then I need to charge this much more.
Instead of feeling like you're in a nickel and dime or an adversarial back and forth, because you want to keep this, you want to keep it. Feeling like, really exciting and fun. And so after you get through the paperwork phase, you want to be in a great relationship with them. So price it for the unexpected because in big corporate, you're going to have the unexpected.
Brea: So here's what I'm hearing from you and what I'm feeling in my bones are the three P's. It's people finding the right person to talk to. It's paperwork. It's so much paperwork and processes, right? There are so many processes that you just have to kind of learn to navigate or just throw your hands up and just go with the ride, you know?
Lisa: Yeah, and hey, I mean, I'll just add in another P because when you're talking about prospecting as another P, I think in general, if the topic of this show is selling to corporate clients, when people start a coaching, speaking, training kind of business, we get into it because we love the work.
What percentage of coaches do you think are like, “oh my gosh, I didn't know I needed to spend at least half my time being a salesperson or a marketing person.” So that prospecting element, I'm going to just add an extra P in there for you that I think that's another surprise. What it takes to find prospective customers. Where are they? How do I find them? What is my process going to be?
For some, it's social media. For some, it's tapping into an existing past network or people that you've known in your career. For some, it's going to chamber events or other types of networking events and meeting people. Sometimes it's a local effort and they're trying to build business in a specific city. And you can have successful paths through all of those. But it definitely is something you have to be conscious of that it's a thing with corporate clients.
Brea: Yeah. And maybe the fifth P is pricing. This is such a mystery still to me, even though I have worked successfully with corporate clients. It's how do you price it? Right. Especially if you've never done it before and it's your very first contract. So there we go. The five P's of selling to corporate.
Lisa: I know. And we're all over the place, aren't we? I mean, and that's fine. That is a beauty of it. I have heard plenty of our peers say when they're starting out, they've delivered a speech for $700 and I have friends. I know because they're thinking one hour. They're thinking, Oh, that sounds like a lot for an hour.
Sometimes you have to overcome that with a client because they also think of it as one hour. But we, I also have friends who are 20,000 plus for one speech.
Brea: Yeah.
Lisa: There's such a variety. And it's fine.
Brea: And, and I think the mystery for me when it comes to corporate clients is, um, is you don't know what their budget is. Like, you know, that they have a price in mind. Right. And every company is different.
So how do you come in not too high that you lose the, you know, the opportunity, but not too low that you look like a total idiot?! He's never done this before. Right. You gotta come in where they're expecting you to come in. But how do you know? Because what one corporation may do isn't necessarily what, you know, another one will.
I don't have any answers. I'm just here. I'm just here taking notes and saying, if you feel like it's hard, it is. And I'm with you.
Lisa: Well, and I also say you have to have some awareness of things like, okay, here are some things early on that I forgot would be important, but they weren't surprising, even though they surprised me. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes you're like, oh, of course, duh.
Brea: But when I started selling it, yes, you just recognize it when it shows up, you know?
Lisa: Yes. Like, for example, if you went to deliver a workshop to Apple, and you walked in with a Lenovo laptop, no. That's just a hard no. You would cannot do that. So there are times where I have, based on the operating system or even the chipset, let's say you're in big tech, Do they only have Intel?
Like when I'm working with Samsung, well luckily when I worked with Samsung, they don't let you bring in any electronics. You can't get past the front door because you're supposed to leave it all in your car and go through a metal detector. So maybe that's a bad example.
But you have to know those things and you have to know, can I buy Can I bring in a thing that has a component part that is representative of one of their customers and will that offend them in a way that it becomes a note? Another is if they're used to dealing with vendors in person, some companies will expect that you fly in for prospective conversations.
It's not as much of an expectation these days. That was something that the era of COVID brought to us where almost everybody is now willing to have calls over camera. But others, they expect, hey, if we're having conversations, you're flying in on your dime to go have a conversation about the services.
So if that's the case, you're likely going to want to be pitching a big program, not a one-time event, because if you didn't win it, your event can't be profitable with that kind of in-person conversation, unless they're local. So all these kind of things to navigate and know the expectations. In corporate, here's a fun surprise. Sometimes learning the departments that you really mesh with well, can help you get in faster because you’re already a trusted vendor.
You get in with one team and it expands from there. One manager team at a time, one bid at a time. So for example, I really work great with marketing and sales teams. We close fast. They make decisions really quickly when we're together. They're just like, yes, this is it. Boom. Let's go. Where do I sign? Let's not have any more formalities.
That's been a thing. Is that the nature of those departments or is it that we matched so well? I don't know. But if I'm working with HR teams, usually the opportunities are bigger because it might be more like the centralized department that's covering development for 100,000 people.
So maybe they follow the rules more because they're in HR - might be the nature of the work. It might be because they are not as likely to pay on a credit card. They're going to go through their procurement process. And they also have the bigger upside because they might bring you on for 100 training classes in a year. So those are some of the things that I don't know how much you pre-plan for those.
You just experience it and start to learn it. And then you figure out when X happens, things happen really fast and really nicely for me. Maybe those tell you you're in great alignment. So those are the kind of companies and departments that you work really great with. So that could be where you focus your attention so that you're not spending as much time feeling like you're running your head against the wall.
Brea: Absolutely. Yes. It's also reminding me of another challenge that I've found and this is not just in corporate, but a lot of corporate turnover, you know, finally you start to make some inroads and then all of a sudden that person isn't there anymore because they got let go or because they restructured or because, you know, fill in the blank. So then you got to start all over again.
Lisa: It's wild. You know, the biggest contract I sold was $297,000. I was so excited about it. It went swimmingly. It was like, oh, this is amazing. If I could re-land this every year, it would be so perfect. I mean, everything was going. Yeah. The gig was great. The people were great. The relationship was great. And in the 11th month of the 12-month rollout, they had a rework, and there was a new VP, there was a new director, there was a new manager, the program got deleted, and all the people turned over and just poof, gone.
No opportunity for that to repeat. But if I had won that same contract five years before, that could have been part of my revenue for five years in a row. So you just you really don't know and you have to consider it. I think that's a great surprise to bring up is the eggs in the basket kind of concept.
You could sit back on your laurels and say, oh, look, I have two big contracts. I'm just going to hang. And if you stopped marketing and stopped trying and stopped reaching out, you might really shoot yourself in the foot two years later when you had to start over.
Brea: Oh, absolutely. Oh,
Lisa: That's important.
Brea: Yeah. So the starry eyed emoji is now I'm like, this is just hearing all of this and reliving, you know, my experiences that are resonating. It's like from starry eyed to just like full on streaming tears, you know, it's just like, I don't even know if corporate is worth my time or my energy. And, and I have found, you know, a nice home with, smaller businesses and even local small businesses. And when those corporate opportunities come along, it's awesome.
I just did a one-on-one coaching session with a high school senior. The mom bought a coaching session for her daughter and for herself. So they both did built-in trainings. We did a debrief individually for each, but kind of at the same time, they were present to share that experience together. really sweet. Well, it turns out that mother is in the C-suite for a very big hospital chain.
Boom, there you go. It's like, wow, I wasn't looking for this, right? But here's this person in front of me that I definitely need to talk to. And so when those things come up, I'll put in the work and the time to follow it and pursue it and be patient. But most often I'm not out there looking for those opportunities because it just doesn't doesn't fuel me. You know, I lose gas really fast.
Lisa: Well, those sound just perfect. And plus you lead through connectedness. So being able to just be open to the fact that those are going to drop in sometimes and it's not what you're leading with and they'll drop in. And you know, like those are the best scenarios when someone says, oh, well, oh, I'm in charge of these seven locations.
I want to bring it to each location. So let's do these seven different rollouts. And sometimes they'll just drop a giant project in front of you and you're like, And other times, here's one I think people run into when they're selling to corporate clients. They think, okay, I'm gonna sell to corporate clients.
I have the most aligned amazing experience. I'm in their industry. Let's take one like, okay, I'm in hospitality and that's where I've spent my whole career and now I'm an executive coach and I specialize in executives and hospitality and I'm gonna come in and coach leaders in that industry. It seems so niche, so perfect. And then a leader, you connect with a leader there and they're like, this is amazing. I'm going to bring you in with all of my other senior VP peers.
And they start bringing you in and they realize from corporate HR, oh wait, we have the International Coaching Alliance as an approved vendor. And they're the only people approved to deliver coaching. So if you want to be part of coaching, you have to go through them. So these things that get real convoluted sometimes come up where they're like, you have to get billed through there.
Then they reach out to this coaching alliance, and then you have to be a subcontractor to the coaching alliance, and it's this detached kind of thing, and oh, they're gonna take a cut, but you brought the business in, but the cut is there, and you have to price that in, but you have to go with their rates, because they already established their rates to become an approved vendor.
So those surprises are definitely worth being ready for and maybe even asking those questions. I find it's way more common with coaching than anything else, but it also comes up with speaking. We'll have approved vendor bureaus. I've had to get paid through a speaking bureau that I had never interacted with before, but it's the only person they can get paid through.
So you go through that bureau. The same happens with training services. Sometimes it's really interesting how their procurement departments have done this to be efficient and to lock in prices. Sometimes they've done reverse bidding. I call them reverse bidding wars, but they like send their specs out and they have all the vendors bid on it so that one they can only deal with one vendor and that one vendor wins the business and that one vendor likely came in with the lowest price.
Not always, but they came in with all of the factors that needed to be in place to win that business. And they've centralized on that one vendor. And you have to then be a sub of that vendor. That's something I never even knew existed until I got into the corporate world. And sometimes that pops up as something to navigate.
Brea: There's just so much. I mean, my brain is spinning from all the things that we could talk about. Yeah. Okay. So there are so many people who are listening and want to sell into corporate. So instead of being surprised by that, maybe do a little bit of research and go and try to be proactive and align yourself there. I know I've found certain certifications that corporate clients have partnered with.
And so you could go get certified from that company and then they're the ones that give you all the clients. So not dealing with corporate directly, but finding corporate clients in a coaching certification.
Lisa: Yes.
Brea: I think something else I was surprised about was how, because learning and development and assessments and these types of workshops and coaching and training are so commonly offered in corporate, I thought it would be so easy because that's what they're looking for. But sometimes I was surprised that they, oh, well, we've already done strengths.
Lisa: Right.
Brea: We did it once five years ago as a team. Right. So we're done. So thank you so much, but we don't, you know, we don't need you. Or there's a challenge. Even if you win the bid, you go in and you deliver, you're walking into a room of a lot of people who have their minds made up about what they're going to experience with you based on other trainers that have come in for other assessments, right.
Or other workshops that they've done in a similar vein. They just automatically lump you into. their past experiences, which might be good and might be bad. But that has surprised me and challenged me. I haven't seen that in smaller businesses that maybe don't have as many opportunities to offer these types of things to their people.
Lisa: That is a great point. It's a both a pro and a con in corporate because they might be like, hey, look, during my corporate career, I've done it all. I've done Myers-Briggs. I've done DISC. I've done Hogan. I've done Berkman. I've done VIA. I've done CliftonStrengths. I've done The Fascination. I've done this. I've done The Insights. They will rattle them all off and they're like, It could be, we love all of those.
It could be, Oh, gosh, here's another one. Which one are we going to do this quarter? And you don't know what the perspective of the team is going to be. But if they didn't have the greatest experience in the past, they might be in an eye roll view of it as a participant.
On the other hand, when people are like, Hey, we have a brand new team, we should do something for a team builder when we get together for our quarterly meeting that's in person. Oh, have you ever done StrengthsFinder? Oh, yeah, I did that years ago. We should do StrengthsFinder. And they remember these, like for us, it's a really old terminology, but I get lots of people coming to me still saying, I want StrengthsFinder because they remember it, it's part of corporate, they've done it in corporate.
So it brings a recognition to a product that we didn't even have to create. And it gives us a little bit of a leg up to be able to get in because they already know they want that thing.
Brea: Yes, yes. So for better or worse, you know, kind of lays the groundwork for you. So to be aware, you know, that those preconceived notions are there and to prepare for that.
Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. Well, I hope all of you listeners, I hope that you got something cool out of this that will help you mitigate some of those surprises and give you strategy to chew on. It's not like this was meant to be a roadmap, like here is how to sell to corporate clients, but More like, here are some pros and cons.
Brea: Because that roadmap doesn't exist, by the way.
Lisa: Yeah, if you made that roadmap exist, it could look six different ways. And yeah. All right, Brea well, if someone wants to work with you, whether it is one of those corporate clients listening in, or maybe one of the others who are like, oh, yes, she likes those medium businesses, and that is me. Tell them how to work with you.
Brea: Well, you can just come on over to my website, BreaRoper.com, B-R-E-A-R-O-P-E-R.com. And I'd love to chat and learn more about what it is that you're looking for, what problem you're trying to solve, what it is that you hope to gain from working together and we'll customize a solution that fits for you.
Lisa: Beautiful. And me, Lisa, at Lead Through Strengths, this has been our thing. Big corporate clients have been our focus, so it's totally our comfort zone. And also, I do a program called Tools for Coaches, and it's a $100 a month community where I give away all of my tools, templates, the documentation, and just give you a leg up so you save a lot of time on these kind of situations when you're in that community. And that's at LeadThroughStrengths.com over on the Tools for Coaches link.
Brea: So good. So good. All right. Go on out there and get your business. Go get those corporate clients.
Lisa: Yeah. If you want them. And if you do, go make a huge difference because they have a massive number of employees out there in the world who need what we do as coaches and speakers and trainers. And if this one lights you up and it's a customer set you want, let's get out there and have a big ripple effect.
● Affordability and Accessibility: For many individuals, one-on-one coaching can be a financial stretch. Group coaching is often more budget-friendly than one-on-one sessions, making it an attractive option for those looking to access top-tier coaches without a hefty price tag.
● Networking and Peer Learning: Participants in group coaching can build meaningful connections with peers who share similar challenges, fostering a supportive community that extends beyond the coaching sessions. Offering group coaching allows individuals to learn, not only from the coach, but also from observing and engaging with others in the group, enhancing the overall learning experience.
● Scalability for Coaches: Instead of being limited to one-on-one sessions, coaches can reach and impact more people simultaneously. This not only increases profitability but also allows coaches to create a ripple effect of positive change. Plus, the energy and interaction in group settings can be incredibly motivating for both coaches and participants, making the experience more enjoyable and fulfilling.
● Flexibility in Structure: Group coaching offers can take many forms, from small cohorts to larger sessions, and can be tailored in duration, allowing coaches to experiment with different formats to find what works best for their audience. Experiment to find what works best for you!
🎧Listen now and let us know your thoughts! We’d love to hear how delivering has impacted your journey.
And today's topic is all about group coaching. So do you want to deliver or offer group coaching?
Brea:
Yes. You should. You know, not that I'm going to should on everybody, but really you should. There are so many benefits of delivering group coaching.
Brea:
But if you've ever asked yourself that question, group coaching, should I do that? This is the episode for you.
Lisa:
Yes, it is. Yes, it is. I was thinking we could talk about the two angles. Of course, anytime you have a product or a service, so we're even talking to you internal coaches who are coaching for an organization as an employee.
Lisa:
Well, you might have a lot of reasons you want to incorporate group coaching into your internal practice. Certainly, if you're an independent coach, you might want to introduce this into your product offerings. And as always, we want to think about the person we're being of service to, right? Some people call them coachee.
Lisa:
I will often call them the person being coached because people look at me weird if I say coachee. It is such a weird word. It's such a weird word. It is.
Lisa:
It is. So anyway, we want to think of that person Let's, let's take that angle first. Cause of course it can benefit. You can benefit your organization, but let's talk about the person receiving the coaching first and why group coaching could be great to consider from that person's point of view.
Lisa:
What say you, Brea?
Brea:
Oh my gosh. Well, one of the main reasons that I hear people are attracted to group coaching when they're considering one-on-one versus group coaching, it's price, you know, group coaching is usually cheaper, so it makes it just a little bit more affordable. And it's a great way for them to get to know the coach and receive some coaching, you know, receive the value of it for not a big spend. It's just kind of a smaller step before they're ready to commit to one-on-one coaching.
Lisa:
I had not even thought of price. And could you imagine like some people want access to a specific coach and they just cannot get that in their budget at this time, but they could get access to that person with a more intimate kind of relationship if they did group coaching. Smart.
Brea:
I've got a whole list, but I'm sure you do too. Lisa, what else do you think of? All right, we'll ping pong back and forth.
Lisa:
I think my favorite benefit to the coachee is the network. Because let's say you're doing a group program and you're like, I'm going into this program on how to get rid of my imposter syndrome as a new senior leader. Well, you are now in a room with 10 or 15 other senior leaders who are also currently experiencing imposter syndrome. I mean, the ability to network and really grow your relationships with people who are like you, who understand you.
Lisa:
It's so cool. And because you're learning from peers who you respect, when they're learning, and the coach, let's say the coach is doing like a focus on that person, whether it's a hot seat or whatever you call it, depending on what kind of program you have.
But If they're focusing in and doing a coaching spotlight with that one person, and that one person is not you, you still benefit so immensely because you're watching someone who has the same issue or challenge you have. You're watching the coach and you can't help it.
Lisa:
You're coaching them in your mind. You're like, Oh, this is what I would think of that. Oh, this is how I'd approach that. And you're learning about yourself while you're doing it.
Lisa:
It's an incredible way to learn and meet people. I just love that richness. I think that's amazing. That might've been like, two different things in one, both the networking and how you learn from peers.
Lisa:
But gosh, that is a really big deal.
Brea:
Yes, I agree. Peer feedback is, if not number one, it's, you know, it's tied with my number one, I think. So I'm glad that you brought that up. The other part of the networking piece is the network just really like commits to supporting each other, not just in the session, but also outside of.
Brea:
And what I mean is like on LinkedIn, whenever I post something, I'm going to tag the people that are in my group that were in that coaching session. We were just talking about, you know, being bold and putting something out on LinkedIn. So we tag those people and everybody likes and comments and boost the algorithm and just shows that support. So the network is, is more than just building friendships.
Brea:
It's actually committing to, to support each other in their business. Um, which I think is so cool. Oh yeah.
Lisa:
I mean, you made me think of two things there. One is, if you paid $1,000 to be in a group program, and that group program is six weeks long, but you made really tight relationships and friendships during that time, now that learning and peer network carries forward for years to come. So you pay for this quick thing, and then it lasts in a way that one-on-one coaching can't without continuing to pay.
Brea:
That is super cool. That's the power of of spending time with each other. You show up to a group coaching program and you're vulnerable, you're open, you're hungry, you're learning, and you're all in it together. So it really can form some great friendships.
Lisa:
I think that's why it's so cool that it goes beyond the person. Because you buy a group coaching program or you buy into a group coaching program or membership or course, however the structure, because it could be literal coaching, it could be a course, it could be a membership, lots of different structures to group coaching, but you buy it based on that person selling it and you're sold on that person.
And what is so cool to me is how often you get into this group coaching and you're satisfied with the purchase based on that person and how they run their program. And then all those extra people are like bonuses.
Lisa:
It's incredible what relationships form from group coaching.
Brea:
It's amazing. Yeah. You know, another great thing about being in a group coaching cohort is the added availability. I don't know about you, but my brain is always coming up with questions and it's usually not in the moment.
Brea:
You know, it's like after I've stepped out of it that I'm like, oh shoot, we should have talked about this or I should have talked about that. And it's like, you know, you can do that with a group coaching program. You've got all these other people in the cohort that you can reach out to outside of the sessions. You're not just limited to the one hour you've paid for with the one person.
Brea:
You have more time to practice what you're learning and just ask questions without that added burden of being limited to time Yeah. Oh, what a good one.
Lisa:
This makes me just want to go sign up for more group programs right now.
Brea:
I know. I love it. I mean, you and I both, Lisa, we're social beings, you know, very social. So the people part of it is super, super attractive.
Brea:
But these other practical elements, I think, are really great for you as a coach, for the listeners, to remember this is a great thing to consider. So maybe we should talk about that. Why might a coach want to consider it for themselves?
Lisa:
Before we go to coach, I just feel like, I think this is a thing. My sister is super introverted and loves to tell me that the whole world is not extroverted like me. I'm like, just to put a little closure on this, I want to say for those of you who are not mega social beings like Brea and like me, don't think this is just an extrovert's game. It is a really incredible what you can get just watching what happens in a mastermind hot seat coaching or in a demo where someone's in front of the room.
Lisa:
You don't have to be social to watch someone else. You could just sit there in your own solitary world and just watch and soak in and have your mind exploding with nuances that you learned that you never even signed up to learn. Little things that you change about how you move forward. It's incredible.
Lisa:
So it is beneficial for all.
Brea:
Yes, introverts, welcome!
Lisa:
OK, OK, now let's move. You said, let's go to the coach side. How are these programs of service to the coach who's offering the program? Yeah.
Brea:
Well, Price, I guess I'll just start with the same thing, right? It can be very lucrative for you as a coach to build a group coaching model. because you're able to serve more people and profit from more people at once, right? So you're getting more bang for your buck as far as the time goes.
Brea:
Does that make sense? Yes.
Lisa:
Oh yeah.
Brea:
Heck yeah.
Lisa:
Yeah. You know, I like profitability. I also think it's been really cool where you can serve so many more people, have such a big ripple effect by being out there in service of others, where one-on-ones, you'll just blow past your capacity eventually. We go through waves sometimes where we're in a really high demand time.
Lisa:
And we feel bad when we can't serve people who are like, please take my money. I love your service. Please come into my organization and do this thing, or please coach me. And you cannot, because you are just blowing way over your own capacity.
Lisa:
So a group program also keeps that from happening.
Brea:
Yep, that's right. I mean, the potential for impact is so much greater. When you've got more people in the room, you're doing more. You're doing more for the same amount of energy, the same amount of effort.
Brea:
So love a good group coaching program. Yeah. And if you're like me, I come out of group sessions and I am on fire, you know, I don't want them to end. And, um, all the interaction with everyone, the, the group versus the one-on-one is really where I'm at my best, you know?
Brea:
Um, and so it's, it's good for me because of my talents. So that's something to consider too. if a group sounds fun, then that's a reason to do it because it's fun. Yes.
Brea:
Yes.
Lisa:
Cause if it's fun, you're going to serve better. Yes. I'm going to say this is tagging onto your first one and specifically probably make it mean something a little different for me is this idea of building a more scalable practice, whether you're an independent coach or an internal coach.
I have had so many times during my coaching life where I get myself so busy that I have literal 12 hours blocked on my calendar where I know exactly what I am supposed to be doing for every minute.
Lisa:
Get in that 12 hour block. I'm running through my house like a tornado. It is a ridiculous sight to see. And then I think, as far as being scalable, think about how many times you get asked the same question over and over again.
Lisa:
And if you could offer that one time, you can create one video, send it out to the entire group, have a discussion around it, and it can live on forever. It gives you so much scale. So I would just say as a person who has always tended toward going back to overbooking myself and creating overwhelm, the beauty of a group program to give you space to really allow yourself to relax into it and show up as that best version of you instead of that frantic swirling around version.
Brea:
Oh my gosh. Nobody wants to live in the middle of a tornado. That is not, not the life that I'm looking for. Wow.
Brea:
Well, you kind of stole, it wasn't exactly what I was going to say, but along the same lines. So I don't want to, you know, like go over that again. Um, I feel like we've got, it's a good list. It's a good list.
Brea:
We covered a lot in a little bit of time.
Lisa:
Oh, you know, okay. I have one final one. Yeah. And you made me think of this while you were talking about the benefit to the person getting coached, the friendships, the vibes, the just like feeling amazing when you're of service to someone and you have that relationship and it's just giving in all the directions.
Lisa:
It does work in both ways. It serves the person getting coached, and it serves the person coaching, and it feels so enriching. It's an incredible way to live. I mean, being coaches, internal or independent coach, if we crafted a life where it feels like you're hanging out with your friends for a living, oh my gosh, it's so darn cool.
Lisa:
And I could not be more grateful for that. I think that is… It's the unexpected. It's not like I thought you would, you know, you don't think your people you serve are going to be enemies or something, but the level of friendships and love toward the people that you serve, it is an incredible thing that it does for your life. And I think it's been one of the bigger surprises in how deep those go.
Brea:
Yeah, I totally agree and have benefited in the exact same way. I know that if I was, ever in any of their towns, I could call them up and say, Hey, I'm in town and I haven't talked to you in five years. How you doing? You know, that's incredible.
Brea:
It's incredible. Yeah. You know, a couple other things are coming to mind as far as what group coaching could look like, right? Um, it could be a small group.
Brea:
Like I think many of us would think, you know, eight to 10 is usually like a really great size. 20 to 30 could be even bigger, right? Actually, the time that I spent serving SOAR, one cohort had almost a hundred people in it. And we showed up twice a week together live.
Brea:
And then I did a one-on-one session with everyone. So it was a lot. Okay. A lot.
Brea:
That is making me tired.
Lisa:
It was a lot. You're talking big group. I think what you just brought up is also so important, because a lot of people who are internal coaches, they're like, yeah, I'm responsible for all leadership development for my company. And that happens to be 12,000 people.
Lisa:
So how big can a group be without just being considered a big old webinar, a big old course? And there are plenty of programs that do 100 people level cohorts. I probably you're not going to have the stamina that Brea had to do that many one on ones. But even if you met up, even if you took out the one on ones and just said, it's a group program, it's for 100 people, it's two times a week live, that is a lot of touchpoint action for that group.
Brea:
You know, I also, I've hosted what's what I call weekly office hours, which is kind of a group coaching variation, where you know, it's advertised that I'm going to be on the zoom on this day, you know, for this hour or for this time and anybody can pop in. And sometimes that ends up being a one-on-one coaching session, you know, for the lucky winner who, you know, was there by themselves.
Sometimes it's a lot of people in a room, you know, or a small amount of people in a room, but there is that group coaching element. And I think that can be beneficial to you as a coach to just, again, um, provide an opportunity for people who want to work with you.
Brea:
You don't have time for a one-on-one contract, you know, for an extended amount of time, but you can say, Hey, come to this. I'm committed one hour a week, you know, to be here or one hour a month even, or whatever you want it to be. But to just leave that open ended for anyone who you meet networking or who reaches out to you on LinkedIn or anyone that, that wants to work with you, boom, there it is. You've got it already in your calendar.
Brea:
So. they can, they can come.
Lisa:
Amazing. Yeah. There are so many structures. I guess you have the kind of the numbers broken down.
Lisa:
You can do a structure that is more like the traditional mastermind where it is the hot seat where that one lucky person gets coached. It can be open Q and a, it can be, um, even in my tools for coaches, we have an open, We call it tea time. It's really just coach connection slash Q&A. It's the spot where all the people who do coaching, speaking, training, and our friends and families and outside of our lives at work, they're like, what do you do again?
Lisa:
And no one really understands what it is you do. Now you're in a room full of all the people who understand and you can ask one question and you'll get 20 ideas. I was just talking with a friend the other day and we were musing about how Isn't it cool that we can show up in that room and we're all what outsiders would think of as competitors, but we show up in the room together and we share the insides of our business, our resources, our ideas, our tools, and it just creates an environment that is so unique. So that's another version where it's a group program and you get so much more out of it than you would out of a one-on-one.
Lisa:
Yes. I think I would close out with a thought on time. The duration is a big question because how long should I make my group program? So from the coach perspective, should I make this a six week thing?
Lisa:
You talked about a 14 week bootcamp. I have corporate clients who do two year leadership accelerators. So the answer to that time thing is really, it can be as long or short as you want, but I love that for creativity and for a coach who's creating a program, Why not do a six-week, 10-week, 12-week, shorter kind of thing and see what you think of it? Because it's such a great place to experiment.
Lisa:
You get a lot of feedback. If you have 15 people who go through a six-week program, you can finish the program, and then you can tweak it for the next one. And by the time you're a few in, you have really made a huge difference in the way that you show up for your clients compared with what it would be like if you took all of those people through a one-on-one program.
Brea:
And that's another, you're, you're teasing another benefit for the coach. You, it's very easy to use a group coaching program, especially if it's a shorter time commitment as a lead generator for one-on-one coaching, right? So people get a taste of working with you. They get excited, they're invested, they're seeing results.
Brea:
You can easily see results after six weeks and they've had a great time. And it's a shorter runway to a more profitable sale, right? or a higher ticket item that you may have.
Lisa:
You could create multiple group programs. You can take your broad topic and now you funnel into group programs that people are eligible for that go into a different skill set or focus area.
Brea:
And I know I keep kind of setting it up where it sounds like it has to be group coaching or one-on-one, but the most successful group coaching programs that I've been a part of have a one-on-one element as well, right? We meet as a group and you have the opportunity or even the option to have one-on-one coaching, which is just so great because you get all the benefits of all the things, the personal attention and the peer feedback and the relationships and all of that. So it doesn't have to be either or.
Lisa:
Well, I'm leaving this episode feeling like I'm going to go join more and deliver more, it's just beneficial on both sides. And I get really hyped about them. And I just, if you're a Tools for Coaches member listening in, I adore you. You are so incredible, and thanks for being part of enriching my life.
Brea:
That's so wonderful. I'm sure they feel the same, Lisa. I'll speak for them. I'm sure they feel the same.
Brea:
I'm doing the heart thing with my hands, you know. Well, I agree. I think, I think the tornado has has gone and I'm just seeing clear blue skies, you know? Peace.
Brea:
That's right. That's right. Cool. Yeah.
Brea:
Good. All right, BreaRoper.com, LeadThroughStrengths.com. Anything else you want to remind people about?
● Actionable Insights from the BP10 Framework: The various worksheets and tools provided in the "Born to Build" book, which accompany the BP10 assessment. These resources encourage self-reflection and help you articulate your purpose, dreams, and plans for the future. Brea mentioned the purpose journal as a particularly impactful tool for self-awareness. If you're considering starting your own business or transitioning from a corporate job, I highly recommend diving into these resources. They can provide clarity and direction as you embark on your entrepreneurial journey.
● There are talents specific to building a business: The BP10 assessment identifies the top talents necessary for building a successful business. It emphasizes that no one person possesses all ten talents, highlighting the importance of collaboration and filling gaps with the right people.
● The assessment is just the beginning: The assessment unlocks additional resources, including worksheets and activities, that promote self-reflection and strategic planning. Taking action with these tools can lead to greater insights and business success.
● The BP10 Talents and CliftonStrengths work well together: Both assessments can provide a deeper awareness of personal strengths and areas for growth in business.
Take Action
● Take the Assessment: If you purchase a physical copy of the book, Born To Build, it includes a code to take the assessment. If you prefer to go paperless, you can purchase an assessment code here.
● Read "Born to Build": Purchase and read the book "Born to Build" by Gallup.
● Complete the worksheets and activities included with the assessment to gain a deeper understanding of your business-building capabilities.
● Compare your BP10 with your CliftonStrengths: Take the time to reflect on how your BP10 talents align with your CliftonStrengths. This can help you understand how to leverage your unique combination of strengths for greater success in building your coaching practice.
● Join a Group Coaching program: If you don’t want to go through the BP10 resources alone, consider joining a cohort of other coaches. This can provide support and accountability as you explore your talents.
🎧If you're intrigued by the BP10 assessment and want to learn more about how it can help you build a successful coaching practice, be sure to check out the full episode!
Lisa: And today's topic is the BP10 for building a coaching business or building any business for that matter. What in the world is a BP10, Brea?
Brea: It's another assessment that Gallup puts out. I know everybody's like, what? Gallup does something other than CliftonStrengths? So it stands for Builder Profile and 10 is the number 10.
What Gallup has done is they looked at people who highly successful builders as far as entrepreneurial and building businesses. They've identified what talents have gotten them there and made a list of 10 that you need to build a successful business.
Lisa: Tell us about your top. I mean, you could even just be your first, your number one, but it could be anywhere up there in your top talents. What resonated with you the most when you read your top?
Brea: Yeah. So my number one is relationship, which is so true. For better or for worse, this is how I approach everything.
If I'm cold calling or I'm reaching out to a company that I've never reached out to before, my first instinct always is to go to LinkedIn and see, do I know anyone that works there now or that has worked there or that might have a connection there?
That's always my first instinct, which may or may not be helpful, you know, but that relationship is always always leading me.
Lisa: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I could totally see that. And that would be comfortable for you and fun for you. And it would feel like a way to build a business that doesn't feel like the slog.
Brea: Yeah, totally. I would much, much, much rather build my business with people. Independent is my number 10, yeah.
I just, I don't love doing it alone. I love doing it with people. I love doing it for people. From creating my offerings, it comes back to that relationship.
What does the customer in front of me need? That's what I'll create an offer for. What are the relationships that I have? Who are the people in my network?
What do they need? Or where are they? Then I show up at those networking events. Relationship leads everything.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. This is fun because my independence is also, it's my ninth out of 10 and relationships high. It's in the top four for me as well.
And mine has a little different angle and I totally can map it to my strengths. So my number one is profitability. I know you're so surprised.
Brea: Okay, no surprise there. I love that. I love that. You know, I love that.
That's low for me. So having relationships, people in my circle who bring that is such a gift. And that one is… Oh, go ahead.
Lisa: Well, I think that one was interesting to read. When you think of it like a talent, right? It's almost as if it doesn't get experienced much in the business.
It does, but it happens so fast. And I think this would reflect my strategic talent from
CliftonStrengths. It's such a vetting tool for me.
If we're talking in the context of business, not in my hobbies or my giving strategies or something like that, if it's literally in the context of my business, then if it's not profitable, then I just throw it out immediately.
Because if it's not profitable and doesn't seem to have the chance to be, I have 10 other things that I could do that I enjoy that would be profitable. So go for those. And it's just like you in, you out.
And then, and then I don't think about it a lot. So it's not one of those that I think lives in my head all day, every day is how I feel. It's just like an early filter and then out.
Brea: Yes. And for me, because even though we both share a relationship in our top, profitability is so low for me that even if it is profitable, if it's not relational, I immediately throw it out, right?
Because the profitability is so low that it just doesn't motivate me.
So for instance, I understand from a business standpoint, I understand the value of having an evergreen something something. You know, something passive income, you know, something that generates income while you sleep.
You know, I, I get how cool that would be to just wake up and have mailbox money as they call it down in Nashville. Like, but there's no relationship. There's no, like, it really just doesn't, fuel me at all.
I would much rather create offerings that are profitable that allow me to connect with the client instead of just selling them a digital something and never talking to them.
Lisa: Right. And mine, I will think of things like, okay, does this idea, before I know whether it's profitable or not, does this idea seem like it will be good for profitability?
Okay, if yes, you're in, you get the shot at it. And then because relationship is high in my list, then for me, it's like, okay, now, because I do love people and I like being around people, then, okay, do I already know someone who I could ask questions of?
Or do I already have customers who I know and love and the feeling is mutual and I could put in a phone call and we could have a chat about it and they could help me? That the idea I also see in the BP10 report is a watch out. It says ensure your networking activities don't detract from accomplishing other tasks.
And that has totally been true in my lifetime. I can get so deep into like having the fun social part of business because it's so fun. Then is the time suck so high that it's getting out of balance for me?
It is something I have to watch, especially living out in remote areas. If I'm going to do the in-person relationship thing, it's going to take a day of dedication. So is that day sometimes I'll have to say, this is a relationship day.
I'm doing it on purpose to feed my relationships. But if I'm doing it for business, I would throw it out because it wouldn't be worth the hours. So sometimes I even make those delineations.
Just to feel like, okay, no, I'm actually doing this because this is a real human friendship sort of thing that I want, but it is a business meeting. This wouldn't be worth eight hours of time of our friendship.
I'm going to go into town. I'm going to combine it with other trips. I'm going to do these other things. So it is interesting how it comes into how I spend my time, how often I do it, what it's about.
But I'll definitely think of relationship as a way to build business first, just because if you could build it 15 different ways and the relationship way is really fun, then why not go for one? If it can be profitable and fun and have a meaningful relationship all in one, I'm in.
Brea: Yes. Why not? I'm in. That sounds great.
You know, I, this is gonna sound bold because it is. I really, really love BP10. I love CliftonStrengths more. Okay, let's be honest.
And I love how the two of them work together. It's very, very easy to see how your CliftonStrengths are really bringing the nuance to these builder talents. But I will say that BP10 is the single most valuable thing that I've done for my business, I think.
Like the $20 for the code and the time that I put into the worksheets, the activities that the book kind of takes you through, like those resources that Gallup provides, if I did not do that for my business the first year that I was in business, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't still be in business today.
Lisa: Bold statement.
Brea: It is bold, but here's why I say it is because my profitability is so low. If I had not had an assessment show me that in just plain black and white. You know, like here it is almost all the way down at the bottom, you know.
And independence being number 10. You cannot do this on your own. You don't want to do this on your own.
You will not do this on your own. And if you're going to really make a business, you've got to make money, you know. So you can't just live in la la land of like, oh, I'll just spend all my time building these relationships and going to these networking things like what you just said.
And hope that the dollars fall out of the sky. So even though, you laugh because you can't imagine a world, but believe me, I've lived in that world. So I think it's so powerful to see it on paper, just like it's so powerful for us to see our own CliftonStrengths, our own talents on paper and be like, okay, yeah, these are my talents, these aren't my talents.
But that's the thing about BP10 that's very different than CliftonStrengths is in order to be a successful builder, according to the research that Gallup has done, you have to have all 10 of these things present in your business. And what they've understood through research is no one person has all 10 of these talents.
So it's different than CliftonStrengths, right? Because we say you don't need all 34. You know, all 34 are good, but it's OK if you, you know, if you don't have all 34 as your top.
But this is saying you need all 10 of these. So for me to see what I needed to be successful, what I didn't have, that if I wanted to be successful, I needed to find these things or these people. I needed to fill these gaps.
It was just such a clear, simple way to figure out where do I start building this business.
Lisa: Now you alluded to activities that the book takes you through or the tool would take you through. Tell the listeners about a couple of the things you remember doing and what insights you got from them.
Brea: Yeah, so there are eight different worksheets, Gallup calls them tools, that you do as you kind of move through the book. So the book is called Born to Build. The tools, they're just very foundational.
There's a purpose journal where it's really a self-awareness exercise, helping you figure out what's your why, what's your purpose, what experiences have you had. You get to dream a little bit about your plans for the future.
I love the purpose journal because it was just reflection and dreaming and all the things that I do well, right? There's a self-schema tool that was really powerful for me that helped me kind of dig into the themes themselves. Honestly, all of them were helpful.
Overall, just having that framework and that structure for me was super, super helpful.
Lisa: So if somebody is listening to this and they are in a corporate job, thinking about leaving, going out on their own, what would you tell them to do with Born to Build, the book?
Brea: Yeah. So if you want to do it on your own, um, go buy the book. The book has a code, very typical Gallup, right?
They include the code in the back. So the book is like, I don't know, between 20 and 25 bucks, depending on the day on Amazon, read the book through and download the worksheets online and just go through, go through the book and do the worksheets as you, as you go through. And if you don't want to do it on your own, then come and do it with me in a small group that I lead.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. Tell us more about that.
Brea: Well, it's just doing it together. So 8 to 10 people, it's 8 to 10 weeks. And we kind of go through chapter by chapter and just slowly work our way through all the different resources.
Lisa: Mm-hmm. Sounds like a great way to do, okay, one of the worksheets or one of the kind of concepts they have is the concept of a board of directors.
Brea: Yes.
Lisa: When I read it at first, I was like, come on. If you're talking about a solopreneur or somebody who has five contractors on their team, they're not going to have a board of directors in the typical sense.
Brea: Yeah.
Lisa: And at the same time, I was just poo-pooing the language, but it does give you a sense for what, you know, do you have a personal board of directors? What would this be like? And it covers what you were describing.
Like if you don't have these 10, all really high, then who else do you have in your life whose opinion you respect, but thinks totally different from you, who you could make part of this process, and it's, I thought that was pretty cool after I pooh-poohed it initially. That's so funny.
Brea: Yes, yes, but point is, for you to find the people, you know, to fill in the gaps, so board of directors is huge. And they talk about like, yeah, do you have a coach? Do you have a mentor?
Do you have a role model? Do you have an expert? Accountability partner, I think, is one of them. So there are specific people that you need on your board to fill specific roles.
Which from my experience in nonprofit world, I have seen, unfortunately, a lot of nonprofits pull together a board of directors that are just like their friends. And so I loved Gallup's board of directors because it was very specific about the perspectives that you need to surround you to make sure that you're covering all your bases. So cool.
How do you feel like your CliftonStrengths, maybe think of your top five or so, how can you see those influencing your BP10 talents?
Lisa: Oh yeah, well I think positivity, individualization, they're probably the two that are just so glaring as they tie to relationship. I think for profitability, my strategic mixed with my focus, mixed with my maximizer, they're the vetting factor.
They're the ones who say this fits. It's kind of like I'm just, I'm very visual and I see this Venn diagram that only has two circles instead of three and one side, says, here's a service I know how to provide and love providing it.
And the other side says, the market wants it and needs it. And where they overlap, boom, it's going to be profitable and it's going to be a great match.
And so I think those talents line up with that. And then there are things in there with disruptor that's also in my top. And building and testing a minimally viable product, launching to early adopters, iterating, that is so maximizer.
And so individualization, like let's figure out what is unique, what's a unique differentiator, what's something different that the market might have an appetite for, but it hasn't been available readily. So, that you get the novel part of things and then also be open and willing to iterate.
Brea: Yeah, that's so cool. I remember first taking the assessment and selling was number five for me, which is just right smack dab in the middle. It's not high, it's not low, it's just right there, but the
BP10 uses your top four, so it was not part of that top four.
I could sell ketchup to someone in white gloves. I could sell ice to an Eskimo. I have been selling my entire life.
I was a missionary for four years and I had to fundraise all of my income. I can sell. Why is this number five?
I think it's not that you can't do something. Again, it's not as much about the outcome, similar to CliftonStrengths. It's about that vetting, that prioritization that you're describing.
Selling is not my first instinct relationship for me will always come first. And then I figure out how do I sell it. So it's interesting to look at your BP10s and your CliftonStrengths side by side, you know, and figure out what those connections are.
Lisa: Well, I also see, this makes total sense to me when you're describing it, my experience of you, because yes, I know those things about you and I believe you're very persuasive.
And in the selling one, it talks about communicating clearly and communication is in your top. I mean, all those things. And I think about things like with your connectedness, you're going to be focused on whether something's a good fit for someone.
You're not going to push it if it's not, if it doesn't feel meant to be, you're not going to be the one who would push on that. And you would be great at rallying support for your ideas, but you're not going to disingenuously rally support for your ideas.
If it didn't feel moral or aligned with Brea values, you wouldn't push it. Whereas maybe somebody who's selling is number one, maybe it would be like, I just sell is number one.
And it happens before thinking of the relationship, whereas your relationship comes first.
Brea: That's right. Yes. Thank you for seeing that in me.
Lisa: Well, definitely, if you're listening to this and your interest is piqued and you're hearing these words and you have your own business or you're about to start one, check out brearoper.com so that you can see what she has to offer in this way.
And I also want to throw out begintoflourish.com. One of our, well, two of our fellow strengths coaches, Jeff and Heidi Liscum, married couple, married coach couple, how should we say that?
A couple who focuses on BP10. They specialize in this tool. They have an online class in this tool. So their site began to flourish, would be a cool place to look as well.
Brea: You know, I just want to clarify my bold statement from earlier. The assessment itself, not the most valuable thing that I've done for my business.
The assessment plus the worksheets, plus the activities, that was the most valuable. The assessment itself, there's not nearly as much science behind it as CliftonStrengths.
The report itself, it's very, very simple compared to the complexity that CliftonStrengths brings us. Just want you to know, if you go and buy the code and take the assessment and you're like, what is this?
Just know that there's so much more there. So please do at least get the book and go through it on your own, or at least go through the module, you know, in Gallup Access.
Um, reach out to the Lipscombs, reach out to me, reach out to someone to help you, um, really get the, the fullness of what BB10 can offer.
Lisa: Well, I can second what Brea just said, because that is exactly what I did when I first took it, the opposite of what you did. And I was like, yep, okay.
That pretty much sounds like, just like people do with CliftonStrengths occasionally. They'll take it and they'll be like, yeah, that kind of sounds like me. Pretty cool.
Okay. And then you close the book and then you forget that it's there and you don't do anything else with it and you don't get a ton out of it.
You just kind of get the, yep, reinforcement. That sounds about like me. And that's the difference in you getting something that is so rich that you said it's the single best thing you've done for your business.
And meanwhile, when Brea brought it up, I was like, I need to retake that and I can't really remember what mine were and I think it was all right but it didn't resonate with me so deeply like it did with you. So those two differences came in. She took action and really dug into it and I did not.
Brea: And, you know, if you are a successful business owner already, this may or may not be as valuable to you as it was to me starting my own business for the first time, going out by myself.
You know, it hit me at the right place at the right time. It was really valuable for me. At least check it out and just know that there's so much richness in looking at your CliftonStrengths next to your BP10 talents.
And just adding to that awareness, that depth of awareness of who you are, what you bring and what you need so that you can go out there and just crush it and build an amazing coaching practice that is honoring the best of who you are and letting you thrive.
Lisa: Yes, I will absolutely second that as my closing thought too. If you are considering using BP10 to build your coaching practice, it's another lens for figuring out what your strengths are.
Finding top talents that are easy for you to lean on that will bring you success with the least amount of effort.
Brea: Ooh, that sounds good. We talk about ease a lot on this podcast. I hope people don't think that we're lazy. We're not lazy, but we're just, you know, work smart people, not hard, you know?
Lisa: I mean, I could work 48 hours a day. Clearly we don't have that many and just be doing thing after thing after thing, trying to get the small advantage.
But if I could work one hour a day and get as far, why would you not?
Brea: Why would you not?
Lisa: That's my goal, Brea. I'm going to try to turn lazy.
Brea: Forget four day work week. I'm doing a four hour work week. Come on, come on.
Lisa: I love it.
Brea: We are Brea Roper and Lisa Cummings signing off.
● Clarity is Kindness: When potential clients encounter a confusing array of services, they may feel overwhelmed and move on. A signature offer makes it easier for clients to understand what you do, which ultimately leads to increased interest and profit. Remember, if you confuse, you lose!
● Lead with the Problem You Solve: While it’s tempting to focus solely on the positive aspects of your services, we emphasized the importance of addressing the problems your clients face. By framing your signature offer around a specific problem, you can create urgency and relevance. This doesn’t mean you can’t highlight the positive outcomes; it’s about meeting your clients where they are and guiding them toward a solution.
● Aligning Passion with Profitability: Choosing your signature offer is about finding that sweet spot where your passion meets profitability. Don’t be afraid to pivot if your current offering isn’t fulfilling you or your clients!
● Embrace Your Unique Delivery: Recognize that your signature offer should reflect your unique strengths and style. Make it memorable and distinct so that it stands out in the market.
● Flexibility in Offerings: Just because you have a signature offer doesn’t mean you can’t have other services. It’s about creating a clear starting point while still allowing for additional offerings that can evolve over time based on client needs and your interests.
Take Action as You Create Your Signature Offer
● Identify the Problem You Solve: When defining your signature offer, articulate the specific problem it addresses. This helps potential clients see the value in your service and why they should choose you.
● Analyze Profitability: Review your past offerings to determine which services generated the most revenue. Use this data to inform your decision on what should be your signature offer moving forward.
Join us as we explore these concepts and more in our latest episode! Whether you're refining your current offerings or just starting out, this discussion is packed with insights to help you create a signature offer that stands out.
🎧 Listen now and let us know your thoughts! What’s your signature offer? How did you choose it? We’d love to hear from you in the comments!
AI-Generated Transcript on Signature Offers for Coaches
Lisa: I'm Lisa.
Brea: And I'm Brea.
Lisa: And today we're talking about Mambo No. 5.
Brea: Little bit of Monica. Oh my gosh, we are so funny. If people only knew how cool we were.
Lisa: I know. Okay, it's Signature Offers. A little bit about why have a signature offer in your coaching practice? And a little bit of how. And you can see why this came up. A little bit of a hmm. Yeah. Let's talk why, though. What do you think, Brea? Why is it important to have a signature offer? Whether you're an internal coach or an independent coach, doesn't matter. Why do you need one of these?
Brea: Right. Signature offer. So this is your standard offering, the thing that you do. Why? Because it's clear and clarity is kindness. And if you confuse, you lose.
So if it's clear, it's easy for you to communicate, then that equals profit, that equals interest from people, and it attracts the people that you want to work with. Hopefully, if it's your signature offer, you love delivering it. So it's good to have a firm place to start and to stand.
Not to say that we can't have other offerings as well, but we've talked about personal branding and the importance of that. This is what you are known for delivering.
Lisa: Yes, I so agree with that as the number one. It's clear. And that's so important because when people are curious about what we do, if they come and they get a giant menu, it is confusing or overwhelming.
You know, we have the urgent, important thing going on in our lives, like, oh, this is probably important people development, but it's just not urgent for this moment. So I'll come back and look at the menu later. That is what you do to the customer or potential customer, whether that's an internal customer or a prospect for your independent business.
And even if it sounds desirable, they can just be like, I'm moving on. And that to me is why you need a signature offer so that when they're looking for that thing, it grabs them.
Brea: Can we talk more about how clarity is kindness?
Lisa: Yeah, I love that phrase.
Brea: I'm sure it's not mine. I'm sure I've picked it up from someone way smarter than me, like Brene Brown or something is what's coming to mind. It's true, and so I'm sharing it with all of you.
I don't know. Everyone listening might not know this. Your brain, when it's working, when it's doing all its stuff, it's consuming calories. That's why when you're at a conference or you're in a class or you're reading a lot, you're learning a lot, you can stand up and physically you weren't doing anything. You were sitting on your behind, but you stand up and you're like, man, I'm exhausted.
Because our brain actually consumes calories. And so because of our primal instinct and all that stuff, it's our nature to want to make things simple, to conserve the energy for when a threat comes and we need to go out there and fight the dragons or whatever, you know.
So the more simple, the more clear, the more easy to understand that we can make our offerings, the better. Because if the brain has to work too hard about something that it doesn't think is very important, like what you just said, Lisa, like there are other things that my brain is working on right now, it will dismiss it. And you don't want to be that thing that gets dismissed.
Lisa: Oh, yes, exactly. And I say never fear everyone listening. You might be like, yeah, but I really love one-on-one coaching and I really love speeches and I really love workshops.
The thing is, after you've done your favorite one or the big one or the one, let's, we'll talk in a minute about how to pick which one is the signature offer. They'll ask you, what's next? Where do we go from here? How else can I work with you?
And then all of those other things can unfold. So it's not as if failing to mention all of the other ones up front means you'll never do them again. It just makes it clear and easy to digest the first go round.
Brea: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Lisa: Let's talk about how you pick. So, hey, I know you have a menu. I have a menu. They're both fairly big. How do you decide what your signature would look like?
Brea: I mean, for me, it comes down to profitability. That's not a strength of mine, focusing on what makes the most money or what keeps me in business.
And so it's really easy for me to just look back at the data and be like, OK, last year, where did most of my money come from? What are people buying? You know, that's a real easy way for me to say, OK, well, let's lean into that. Right. We find what works and we do more of that.
Lisa: And it really works for both of you. You like the service and they want to buy it. So it overlaps. That means it's a great one for both of you.
Brea: Sometimes, though, what is making me the most money is not actually what I like the most. So that's a good exercise to look at that and then decide, do I want to create a signature offering that is something that I like that maybe people haven't bought in the past or haven't bought as much?
Kind of like I'm thinking of you, Lisa, like when you switch to fully virtual, you know, like it's a little scary to lean into that, but that's what you needed and what you wanted and so you went for it.
But that would be my first approach to the signature offer: to figure out what is your signature offer now, either on purpose or by accident, and do you want it to still be your signature offer moving forward?
Lisa: Yeah, I love it.
OK, so when I think of a signature offer, there's the service itself and what is the modality? So the modality, I think you pick something like, is my signature modality training, one-on-one coaching, in-person, virtual? Book tours.
I mean, it could be anything that you can imagine that you could get paid for that is the service, but what's that modality? And then the service itself.
So if you do retreats, it's like one-on-one or a one-on-one retreat would be weird, but you could, I guess that's a VIP day, right? Hey, hey, so there you go.
If I spoke as Brea, I do the most amazing, immersive, one-on-one VIP days. I mean, imagine if a person heard that and that was them, what they would feel like.
So I like that modality plus service, but then I also like adding in, be ready with a problem you solve.
Because, like when I said, I help leaders build their teams after reorgs, that's kind of generic. That's not the service. That's a problem.
So like, Ooh, I'm just going through a reorg, and it really stinks right now. How do you do that? Oh, I do that through half-day workshops with CliftonStrengths.
And then boom, they've got your modality, your service, your problem, you've got it all in there.
Brea: Yep. And that's usually where Eileen, I think we've talked about that before with my story brand background.
I'm a firm believer in leading with the problem, not in a negativity or to try to scare you into working with me type of way, but in a, this is actually where people's brains are.
And so if you're going to communicate with them, you need to meet them where they are, and where they are is usually working on a problem.
And so, um, to align with that, I think is really smart. Yes. Yes.
Lisa: And I think it is important to mention it with our audience because let's be real about who we are.
We're talking a lot about coaches, trainers, speakers. Most listeners are into strengths. So if you're out there, we're all alike in the way that we see potential. We try to focus on what's great.
So to turn around and say, focus on a problem, it really does like we're going to get a little glitch in your brain. Like that's not what I want to do. I want to focus people on the positive.
And if you layer in human psychology, I really love Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow, even though it's the most giant book and a little heavy to get through.
But Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize-winning behavioral economist, put the stats behind what Brea just said—that people are two times more likely to act if they're moving away from a negative versus when they're moving toward a positive.
So giving the feel-good potential is nice. And you can also create more urgency and interest if you can help them solve a problem that's pressing and eating up their headspace.
Yeah, and it is positive to serve them in that way because they can get that negative thing over with.
Brea: Yep, that's right.
I have helped a lot of coaches with their marketing of their signature offer and even the creation of their signature offer that fits with them. Many strengths coaches keep coming back to this point of like, I don't want to offer something that solves a problem.
I want, you know, I want to work with people who want to really integrate strengths into their organization. I don't want to work with organizations or managers that are in the middle of a problem. I want to work with people who are thriving, you know, and they want to get more of that.
So we want to bring strengths in. So that's fine. You don't have to have a negative. Your solution doesn't have to be to go into the depths of the problem areas with people. You can have a really positive, proactive, strength-focused solution.
And recognize that whoever's buying that does have a problem, even if it's not a problem like you would normally define it.
Like, um, such as maybe their problem is they just have too much going on. They really want to provide excellent professional development for their team. They really want this, you know, offsite to just rock their people.
Their people have been working so hard, and they want to reward them, they want to appreciate them—all the positive things that give us all the, you know, all the tinglys as strengths coaches.
That's what they want. They don't have time to do that themselves. Boom. There's your problem.
Lisa: Yes. Yes. And you know what you sparked for me?
I had a—in a past role, I worked for another company, and we had a signature offer of training that was two full days. And I was an executive in charge of this product.
And you know what the number one feedback was from customers? It wasn't about the content. It was about the length.
It was two days. "We can't give people two days." "What? Two days?" "Could you make this a half a day?" "Could you make this a half a day?" "Could you make this a half a day?"
I heard so many times, Could you make this half a day? that when I started Lead Through Strengths, I was like, Absolutely, 100%, my signature offer is going to be a half day because I heard from so many big corporate people who were my audience that that is the amount of time that was palatable for them to give.
And I didn't want to fight all the objections of two days. Would I rather spend two days with them immersing in their awesomeness? Yeah, that sounds pretty fun.
Yet I knew what needed to be signature. Once in a while, they'll ask to extend it and they'll do the full-day version, but it is actually really rare.
It's just such a sweet spot of a time, and that has stood the test of a decade. It's really incredible.
Brea: I have also found that and kind of gave into it. You know, I was like, Okay, sure, well, we can accommodate, you know, I'll customize, I'll take some stuff out, we'll squeeze it in, you know, to half a day.
But that doesn't satisfy me. I love the full day, two-day, or even, you know, some micro-learnings once a month for a year. Or, you know, packaging it in smaller bites like that is what fuels me.
So I've learned that I need to hold out for those customers, and I need to be specific and market to those customers. And there are less of them, you know. Like you said, a lot of people are looking for the half day.
So that's my signature offer: Look, I can create this experience. I'll take care of everything. I'll find the venue. I'll find the food. Like, you don't have to worry about a thing. You just sit back and I got this. All you have to do is show up, and I promise to make you the person that hired me—I promise to make you the hero. I'm going to create this amazing experience for your team, and you get to take all the credit and all the fruit from what comes from it in days to come.
So for coaches that are listening, it's just so important to look at your own strengths and create a signature offer that fits with you and satisfies the need of your customer.
Lisa: Yes. I love everything you said.
It made me think of Carol Wheeler. She's one of our fellow coaches in New Braunfels, Texas. Shout out, Texas.
And she's got this physical space in New Braunfels, Texas, and she owns that market. If you're in New Braunfels and you're doing leadership training, strengths training, she's the person that you will think of or that colleagues will refer to because she owns that space.
And that's a beautiful thing about signature offers too. It's ownable because it is—the more distinct, the more differentiated, the more other people can help you.
So it's another good reason to have a signature offer because it makes you memorable and repeatable for other people. It makes it easy to share.
Brea: I mean, you know, I love words, and the phrase signature offer is so on point because when we think about an actual signature—yes, it's writing our name, it's writing these letters, but my signature of my name is so unique to me.
No one else can deliver that in the same way. And I think, you know, if you want to really create a true signature offer, that's the impact that you can have.
It's so unique in the way that you deliver it that you own that space. I love that. What a great example. Yes.
Lisa: And I think for me, closing with some wisdom from Tyann Osborn, one of our fellow strengths coaches.
She always talks about how just because you have this signature offer doesn't take away the fact that you have the credibility of the other offers that you have, and it doesn't mean that those go away.
Getting really clear doesn't mean those other things disappear. It just makes that one thing stand out.
Brea: There you go.
Lisa: There you go. Then Whoomp, there it is.
Brea: Whoomp, there it is. That reminds me of D2: The Mighty Ducks. It's probably in a lot of movies and whatever, but that's where I think I first heard that song.
Lisa: I don't even know what that is. D2: The Mighty Ducks? What?
Brea: The Mighty Ducks? You've never seen The Mighty Ducks?
Wait, is that a hockey team?
Lisa: Okay, I don't know if I've ever seen it.
Brea: Oh my gosh, Lisa.
Okay, well, Slumber Party at Lisa's house! We're watching Mighty Ducks and D2. It'll be a movie marathon.
Oh my gosh. There's so much pop culture I'm behind on.
Any other 90s kids out there? Your jaw is on the floor just like mine. I'm like, Oh my gosh, The Sandlot, Mighty Ducks... I mean, just right back to my middle school years. I love it. Love it.
Lisa: Yeah, if you ever want to just have people's jaws drop at the things I do not know or understand, name celebrities and movies like that, and I'll just be like, I don’t know.
I mean, music—I have pretty broad taste. I can do that kind of pop culture.
But movies and television shows? I've never been a watcher. And so I am just real behind on those kinds of things.
Brea: Oh my gosh.
Well, that's all right. We can catch you up to speed. We can catch you up to speed.
I won’t do that. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Turtles in a half shell!
● Your differences are your differentiators: Don’t shy away from what makes you different. Like Connected Kelly, who initially suppressed her connectedness, recognizing and embracing your unique strengths can lead to a more fulfilling coaching practice.
● Be specific in your messaging: Vague statements like "I help you live your best life." are unclear and uninteresting. Instead, focus on clear, compelling messages that resonate with your audience, such as "I help get your emails get read." This specificity helps potential clients see the value you offer.
● You are your brand: Your personal brand is a reflection of who you are. By aligning your strengths, values, and messaging, you’ll create a cohesive brand that resonates with your audience and showcases your unique contributions.
● Narrowing your focus can attract more clients: When it comes to marketing, less is more! Don’t fear that specializing will limit your opportunities. Instead, it can help you attract clients who are specifically looking for the solutions you provide, ultimately leading to a more successful coaching practice.
Take Action
● Identify Your Strengths: Reflect on your unique strengths and how they contribute to your coaching practice. Let your differences be your differentiators – in your brand, your business model, and beyond.
● Identify the Challenges You Solve:: Determine the specific challenges you want to address as a coach. Consider what problems your ideal clients face and how your strengths can help solve those issues. This will help you create targeted messaging that resonates with your audience.
● Craft Your Messaging: Develop a clear, concise, and compelling answer to the question, "What do you do?".
● Utilize Your Online Presence: Update your LinkedIn profile and other online platforms to reflect your personal brand. Incorporate your strengths and the specific problems you solve in your headlines and descriptions to attract the right clients.
● Engage with Your Audience: Actively communicate your value and the unique contributions you bring to your coaching practice. Share insights, tips, and success stories that highlight your strengths and the impact you can have on your clients' lives.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in building their personal brand. Join us as we explore the power of aligning your personal brand with your coaching practice.!
🎧 Listen now and let us know your thoughts! We’d love to hear from you!
Lisa: And today's episode is strengths and your personal brand as a coach.
Brea: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love this topic. Let's just dive in.
Lisa: I'm so excited. Okay, let's dive in. I want to dive in with an example of something that happened with a coach who was building a personal brand as a coach and she didn't know it and it wasn't at all what she would have done on purpose. Ooh, I'm intrigued. Tell us more.
Brea: Because I think that so many people fall into this trap.
Lisa: Yeah. Heck yes, we do. I imagine most of us have done this where we unintentionally built a reputation on something that we just became skilled at because we practiced it a lot. And this person, I'm going to call her Connected Kelly. I made up her name because I want to keep her anonymous. But she led through connectedness, hence Connected Kelly.
Brea: And alliteration. We love alliteration. OK. I mean, who doesn't?
Lisa: OK. She's a real client. She works in big tech. And she felt like I need to be analytical. That's what I need to be, to be believed, to be credible, to be desired in this company, to be found useful in this company.
I mean, we could go on and on, but analytical was the thing that she really grabbed onto as important for her to be. So she spent a lot of years really honing it, doing analytical actions, showing analytical skills, and showing up that way.
Brea: And probably because she's surrounded with people who are acting like this or who are showing up that way. She feels like she has to be that too. Yeah. Okay. I'm with you.
Lisa: Yeah. And I can, I mean, my individualization loves that in many ways because I'm thinking, well, she's being palatable to the people that she's around. So she's thinking, this is who I need to be for them. Otherwise they won't value me. And specifically when we talked about connectedness, she was like, oh, that's for my friends.
Brea: She's like, that part of me doesn't belong at work. You know, that's my at home or my with friends. Okay. Yeah. Interesting.
Lisa: Yeah. She really felt deeply like it didn't belong there. Like it would get shunned there. It would get made fun of there. She said it felt like people would perceive it as woo woo, that it would just not go over well. So she just shut it off, like put up the wall, anything. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
So what's the results of it now? She it's not like she was faking it. She legitimately built analytical skills and she legitimately used them with her clients, but the repercussion is She was completely wiped out. It was sucking the life out of her because it wasn't fun. It was just something she could do
And I think this is a really important lesson for building a personal brand as a coach, because if you do what you're competent at, you're going to get more of that. She's great. She's an amazing performer, an amazing person. So she kept getting more of the work she didn't want because she showed up and she was good at the work she didn't want.
Brea: That's the worst, the worst.
Lisa: It's a bad cycle.
Brea: Digging your own grave, you know.
Lisa: Yes, yes. Now we did some things with it so I can tell you what I did with her and then I want to switch over to things that you might do with her after she's to the point where she's ready. She feels good about her personal brand aligned with her strengths so that her personal brand as a coach is making her feel alive. It's bringing her clientele that she loves.
So I have this personal branding page. It's leadthroughstrengths.com slash personal dash branding. We started there. We started looking at her top five. We really honed in on connectedness because it was one she said she was squashing. And we just use it as a starting point because she's like, OK, genuine. Well, that's a good thing for me to be as a coach. Being present with people, that's a good one. Okay.
And then we start talking about things like, Oh, I see downstream effects. I understand how parts are connected. I have good rapport across departments. Okay, like all these things could be useful internally. I just shut it off. Because I thought it was the woo-woo strength.
So first pass through, it was really cool, because she realized What a fool! Why am I shutting all this off? There are actually things that I believe people in big tech would value.
And in fact, she's realizing people are like, oh, wow, you're an intrapersonal genius. And they're seeing these elements of her that she didn't show before. And they're things that the clients wanted from her and really valued because they don't know how to do that at all. So that was cool.
Brea: Yeah, it's the lie that we tell ourselves that when we are different, the talents that we might have that are different than what we see around us, we believe that it won't be valued or that it won't be wanted.
And sometimes that is true, but most of the time it is very valuable because other people don't have it. They don't have that capacity, they don't have that ability, and when they saw that in her, that uniqueness, it became her differentiator, right? That's the word that you like to use, Lisa.
Lisa: Yeah, that your differences are your differentiators. Exactly.
Brea: Yes, yes. I think Gallup's focus on naming, claiming, and aiming is what's coming to my head here.
When she was able to look at connectedness and really name it, really understand what that talent is. Maybe it had been called the woo-woo strength, but it was so much more than that.
So when she was able to start finding new definitions for that talent theme, I think that opens up so much potential for us to then claim it, for us to love it in ourselves, you know, for her to see how it could be beneficial at work and how she could love working. How her life at work could actually energize her instead of draining her energy and sucking her soul. She could come to work and thrive and it could increase the connection that she makes with her employees.
And so then when she was able to better understand what it is and what it could be and she could get excited about it and really own it, then she started to aim it and that's where all the magic happens. So what a great example.
Lisa: So, one of the things she named it as was Integrator. She was working with a bunch of software developers, hardware engineers, and what happens is the engineers speak in specifications. That's what was important to them.
But At some point, somebody has to translate that to the non-technical people, whether that is to the marketing team so that you could talk about that to a customer audience and they could actually understand it or otherwise.
So she started thinking of herself as an integrator because she could see all the connections, because she could speak human. They felt like she was a complete genius in this area, but that never got exposed until she started looking at connectedness as this great element of herself and it really became key in her personal brand as a coach.
So, okay, Bria, I know you are a StoryBrand coach and that you keep it under the covers all the time and people don't even know this about you. Let's get some of this magic out of this brain you have on StoryBrand.
Brea: Yes, I was trained in StoryBrand. That’s true.
Lisa: Yeah, OK, so now let's say she wants to work her personal brand as a coach now and connectedness and being an integrator and being perceptive, being a connector. These are some parts of her messaging.
If she came to you and said, OK, now what? How do I build this reputation? How do I begin to change it? How do I do the messaging? What kind of things come up for you and what could be valuable that you could bring? Because I think you have this unique lens because you have story brand and strengths mixed together and it's so cool and I want the audience to get it from you.
Brea: Yeah, thank you. That's why I call my business Strength+Story. I use both of those things all the time. So this is a fun conversation to have.
So if you've never heard of StoryBrand, it's a marketing framework that is built on or let's maybe even say adapted from just general framework of story because there's so much scientific proof and just I think all of us have experience of how story it connects with our brains in a very powerful way.
and there's a framework to it. It's not by accident that the blockbuster movies or the best-selling books are blockbusting or best-selling. That's not by accident. It's by design.
So essentially, if you are adapting this to your brand as a coach, there's a challenge that you help people overcome. So most good stories start with a bomb going off, you know, something that's like really challenging, a problem that needs to be fixed, right? That's what grabs our attention and locks us in from the very beginning, the, the bomb ticking away, right?
So what is that challenge that you as a coach, want to solve for the world, for a particular client, for your company, if you're an internal coach like Connected Kelly, what is the challenge that you have a personal mission to overcome? If you can identify that for yourself, then you can build your messaging around that.
Because when you're communicating that challenge in your messaging and in your branding, in the way you talk about your services, if you're leading with that challenge, you're going to attract the people who need that solution, right?
So it's not a marketing gimmick. It's not a way to manipulate people or to scare people into working with you. It's a real way of connecting with the people who need your services. So I would say that's a great place to start.
And it sounds like Connected Kelly did that where it was kind of a backwards on accident way of doing it. So the challenge is to figure it out first so that you can put that out there in your messaging and your branding.
Lisa: on purpose. It is funny that you say this because there's something really simple that was going on with the problem that linked to her brand which was just no one reads my emails.
And it's because they were boring speeds and feeds, they were not compelling, they were not written from the perspective of the reade: an internal person who's really busy in back-to-back meetings all day. and she's offering coaching services to people who don't really know what a coach is or how a coach can help.
When she realized the thing that would grab them: ‘I can help your emails get read. I can help you get responses, get noticed by your peers so that you become the collaborator.’ So the kind of things that they were having problem with and frustration with, like, ‘hey, I sent an email off and it goes into a black hole.’ Now it doesn't.
Now she is helping them. because she's the integrator, she's helping them communicate with their colleagues in a way that helps them get noticed. And it's because of her connectedness. It's because she can think beyond the analytical.
So I really love that because she was solving that problem for them and loved solving that problem for them. And it was easy for her to do that. And they thought she was a genius.
And she never thought about messaging like this. She was just like, hey, we're here. We can help you live your best life. This is something that we're guilty of as coaches. We're like, oh, everyone needs a coach. It's so powerful. It's amazing. You want to feel good again? You want to live your best life? But inspiration like that actually doesn't drive people to action the way that solving a problem for them does.
Brea: That's right. That's right. And this is where it can be so interesting because You can approach the problem from two different ways. You can look at the problem that your client or your potential client is facing, like no one reads my emails, and make that the problem that you solve.
That's a great way to do it because your client is the hero of their own story. So when they hear your messaging, it needs to be their story that they hear or else they're not interested, right? so many other things pulling for their attention, right? So make it easy for them.
The other way to do it is to look at your strengths. And if you if you are a certified strengths coach, you know this language of bring and need. What do each of your strengths bring? What do they contribute? What problems do they solve really, really well with ease? And you love solving those problems.
And then just make that your business, right? Choose that problem and then put it out there and let the right people find you. So you can go either way and I think that's the first place to start.
If you're listening now and you're like, I really want to work on being intentional about my personal brand as a coach, I would say start with your strengths. figure out what problems you solve really naturally and you want to solve and then build your business around that
or figure out what are the problems that your clients are already coming to you for, right, that you have successfully helped people with and figure out how your strengths are doing that and then be intentional about really leaning into that and building your brand around that.
Lisa: I love this conversation and it overlaps so much with the one about And I know we'll do a separate episode on what your niche is as a coach. But there's overlap because it's like this all relates to what is your specialty? What is unique about working with you?
And if you're not clear in your messaging, then you just overwhelm people with options and they scroll on by because you really have to grab attention with somebody, especially today. There are so many things competing for attention. So that person has to be like, whoa, that was written for me.
And so if she is the one saying, I hope your emails get noticed. I hope your emails get read by colleagues. I hope your specifications get implemented properly. Whatever it is, that wouldn't grab me personally, but I'm not her client. So that's the beauty of it. We know to scroll on by because we're not her client, but the people who are are like, whoa, I need that.
And I think the objection that coaches have to this is we think if I narrow too much, then people won't know what else I could do for them when I decided to specialize in virtual.
I remember the angst I had about putting that on the website, like we specialize in virtual training. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to lose all my in-person workshops. It's going to be detrimental to the business.
It's not what happened at all. I attracted more virtuals. And then plenty of people still said, Oh, do you also do in-person? Why? Yes, we do.
Brea: Because people are not idiots. They can fill in the blanks. They can make those very easy jumps and connections. So you don't have to spell everything out, but you need to give them a place to start, you know? Yes. It's clear.
Lisa: Yes.
Brea: Yeah, and it's interesting because as coaches, like let's flip it, let's put our coaching hat on, okay? So we're in a conversation with a client and they say, gosh, I really just want to be my best self at work. I really want to live my best life, right? What's the very next thing that you would say?
Lisa: Tell me more.
Brea: Well, yeah, “Tell me more.” Or “What does that mean? What does your best life look like?”, right?
Lisa: Yeah, yeah.
Brea: So what you're saying, Lisa, and what we're saying about building this personal brand that's more specific, instead of just saying, hey, coaching's gonna help you live your best life, it doesn't connect with people. It doesn't connect.
So you understand as a coach, that if someone came to you and said, I want to live my best life, your job is to help them understand. what that best life is. It's not enough just to leave them with this desire to live their best life. That's not helpful to them.
So why are we putting that out in our marketing? Why do we think it's going to be helpful to them in marketing? It's not. And it, which means it's not helpful to you in building your business. It's not, not profitable. It's not converting.
So it is helpful. It is It is your responsibility even to be specific in your messaging, in your marketing, to niche down, to find that signature offer, to build your business model around your strengths, the problems that you solve. That's actually more helpful to the people that you serve and it's a win-win for your business as well.
Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. And I think that's a great place to issue a challenge. What could you talk about in your personal brand that brings in your ideal client, somebody who'd be so fun to work with on a topic that you love coaching on? What could be your hook for marketing?
So to Brea's point about your customer being the hero of the story, you're making them the hero by making them stop in their tracks and say, whoa, this was written for me. That's right.
Brea: They're the hero. You're the guide. They're Luke Skywalker. You are their Yoda, right? Especially in coaching, this metaphor works so well because whoever you're coaching, they are the ones that are doing the work. They're the hero of the story, right?
They're the one that's on their journey. They're the one that is actually doing the work. You are just there to empathize, to keep them on track, to keep them focused, to keep them moving in the right direction. They're the ones that are doing the work.
So your marketing should reflect that. Your messaging should reflect that. Your brand, your visual brand online, you know, in your print media, your deliverables, and you, the way that you speak, the way that you come into networking meetings. Just who you are should align with what you do and they should really flow into and out of each other.
A brand is not something that you just create. You can use this intellectual process to help you get intentional about it, but You are your brand. Your strengths are such a natural place to start when it comes to this because that's what makes you unique. So how do your unique strengths set you apart amongst other strengths coaches? It's not just the client that you serve or the problem that you solve, it's how you do that.
So I just love this conversation in general, but then bringing strengths into it is such a natural, just a natural fit because that's what strengths does best is figuring out what's unique about you, what your unique value is, what your contribution is, what's unique about how you approach it.
And if you can get clear about that and put it out there, you're doing the same thing for yourself as you're helping your clients do for themselves, you know, in their lives.
Lisa: Yes. I love also that we've talked about the independent coach. We'll see a lot of this as natural because they've already been thinking, Oh, I need my messaging. I have to write about myself on my website. I have to have, I have to have my messaging in all the places that I'm talking about my business.
But for internal coaches, I don't think that they have often put a lot of thought into where this messaging would happen or could happen. And just imagine, what if your headline in LinkedIn mentioned something around your personal brand?
Imagine how many times, okay, yesterday, I was personally in my coaching practice, I was talking to a really big customer and there were five people there from the client and they went around the room and described what their role is and three of the five people said, I am in HR.
Brea: Boring!
Lisa: Yeah! Could you imagine if a person was like, oh, I'm in HR. My role is that I'm an internal coach, and I help people get their emails read at work. I would be like, ooh. I don't even need the service, and I'm not even a potential customer, but I'm still like, ooh.
That's really interesting because it's so specific. I also know, oh, I need that. I have a friend who needs that. Oh, I can refer somebody internally. So think about all those places where you might communicate.
If they had used your story brand, they could have been beneficial to some other person who was doing an intro to say, oh, I know somebody. Oh, I know six people in my department who need that.
Now they're referring people to you and you're getting the work that you want more of because that work energizes you. You're working yourself into a lot of job security because you're in such high demand. So there are all kinds of places this come up.
And just think of how many times someone asks you, “What do you do?” That happens all over the place, whether you're an internal coach or an independent coach. So that's a great application for this.
If you're listening, and you're like, I get it. Now, what do I go implement from this? Have an answer to that question, “What do you do?”
Brea: So you're tee-ing me up really well for my call to action for this episode, Lisa.
Lisa: Bring it.
Brea: Usually, answering that question, “So, what do you do?” brings fear and dread and makes us, you know, shake in our boots because we don't know how to answer that question.
So if you're really, really good at what you do, but you don't know how to talk about it and you definitely don't know how to give a compelling, concise answer to that question, “What do you do?” If that's something that you need – that one-liner, that elevator pitch, whatever you call it, you need to reach out to me and we'll get it done.
Lisa: Hit her up, brearoper.com.
Brea: Whether it's a workshop for your team or whether you want to do this one-on-one with me, I also have a keynote version, but answering that question, so what do you do? That is one of my favorite things to do. What about you, Lisa?
Lisa: I have a membership for coaches who are building their independent practice and they need help when it comes to the business building practices like, Oh, I don't have business acumen. Oh, I don't know about all the tech. Oh, I, or I was an executive and I left work and all these people used to do all of that. And I, now I have to be the person doing it.
So templates, tools, strategy, marketing, sales, operations, all of that stuff that you might want to learn from a business coach and steal. I actually let people steal all of the stuff I've used in the 10 years of my coaching practice so that they can get a head start and they don't have to spend so much time being bogged down in the business side.
And that's leadthroughstrengths.com and look for the link called Tools for Coaches.
Brea: Love it. We are all about giving and sharing and abundance. And I just really hope that this information is helpful to you. So please take advantage of either of those offers. Both of those offers go out there and build your personal brand based on your strengths. The world needs what you have to give. So don't be shy in putting it out there.
Lisa: Yeah. The world needs it, and when they hear about it, they get excited. So you've got to give yourself a chance by actually putting it out instead of just saying, I'm an HR, next person.
Brea: Oh, my gosh. OK, we can do better. We need to do better. You deserve to do better. It's hard to find our place in the world. But once we do, once we can get clear on how we show up, how we can contribute, what our purpose is, what our role is in the bigger picture.
There's just so much freedom there for you to be able to step into that with confidence every day. I mean, no more imposter syndrome, right? Like when you know who you are, why you're there, the value that you bring, how you're making lives of the people around you or the processes around you or whatever it is that you're involved in.
When you're making that better, I mean, who doesn't want to live that life, you know? So you owe it to yourself to get clear about your value and your strengths and how to clearly communicate that so you can do what you do best.
Lisa: Yes. Yeah. Don't withhold it from the world. We need you. We want you. And Brea just dropped the mic. So we've got to go because she doesn't have a microphone anymore.
