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How Brands Are Built

Business & Entrepreneuriat

Fréquence : 1 épisode/54j. Total Éps: 55

On How Brands Are Built, branding professionals get into the details of what they do and how they do it. Other podcasts about branding focus on news, opinion, and high-level theory. They can give you a 30,000-foot view of branding; How Brands Are Built is where the rubber meets the road. In each episode, Rob Meyerson, a San Francisco-based brand strategist, interviews other strategists, designers, writers, namers, and researchers to help you understand how brands are really built.

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Alex Foss says good research starts with good questions

Saison 5 · Épisode 9

lundi 9 mars 2026 • Durée 43:01

In this episode of How Brands Are Built, I talk with Alexander Foss about research—why it matters, what makes it valuable, and a few pitfalls to avoid.

Alex and I first worked together at Interbrand, where he was on the strategy team before moving more deeply into research and insights. In our conversation, he explains what pulled him in that direction: the feeling of backing up recommendations with something stronger than a "finger in the air."

We talk about the shift from agency work to client-side research, and how different it is when you're responsible not just for delivering against a brief, but for defining the business problem in the first place.

A big theme throughout the episode is purpose. Alex makes the point repeatedly: research should start with a clear question. If you don't know why you're conducting a survey, for example—what decisions it's meant to inform—you probably shouldn't be doing it.

We also dig into a naming research study I conducted last year—research on research—and the tensions it revealed between how namers and researchers think about the topic. Why are experienced namers often skeptical of quantitative testing? Which methodologies do namers and researchers recommend? And how much influence should research have over a naming decision versus other important factors?

Alex argues that research should inform decisions, but not make them. He uses the analogy of buying a house: you can quantify square footage and energy efficiency, but at some point you also have to decide whether it feels right. Naming is similar. Quantified consumer reactions matter, but they're just one input.

Finally, we discuss updating the research section of Designing Brand Identity, sixth edition, and what young strategists can do to build real expertise in a world where AI can handle more and more of the executional work.

If you care about branding, naming, or research—and especially if you've ever struggled with how much weight to give the numbers—this conversation will give you a clearer framework for thinking about it.

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Robin Goffman is all in on Designing Brand Identity

Saison 5 · Épisode 8

vendredi 14 novembre 2025 • Durée 54:26

On today's episode of How Brands Are Built, host Rob Meyerson of Heirloom speaks with Robin Goffman—brand thinker, design strategist, and founder of Studio RBG—about her career path, her approach to creative work, and her experience designing multiple editions of Designing Brand Identity.

Robin shares the story of how she first entered the world of design, from early hands-on tutorials in Adobe software to studying art direction at Temple University. She describes how a single introduction—through her professor, Kathy Mueller—connected her with the late Alina Wheeler and ultimately set her on the path to helping design several editions of the iconic branding book.

In the conversation, Robin explains the unique challenges and rewards of book design, including the rhythm of multi-page layout, the importance of a strong grid, the process of curating case studies and imagery, and the extensive coordination required to keep a 300-plus-page reference book consistent and cohesive. She also talks about what she learned through years of collaborating with Alina—from creative rigor to the contagious sense of passion and curiosity Alina brought to every project.

The episode also touches on Robin's work as a creative strategist, how she blends design with big-picture thinking, and why she believes great design is as much about listening and problem-solving as it is about aesthetic decisions.

Listeners can learn more about Robin's work at robingoffman.com. Join us for a thoughtful, behind-the-scenes conversation about career beginnings, the craft of book design, and the creative lessons that continue to shape how brands are built.

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Diego Segura goes through the doors that open

Saison 4 · Épisode 9

lundi 1 mars 2021 • Durée 48:56

Diego Segura is a design apprentice at Collins, an independent strategy and brand experience design company with offices in New York City and San Francisco. In this episode, Diego describes how he discovered graphic design, his decision to drop out of high school, and what it's like being an apprentice at a prestigious branding and design company.

This is the second part of a two-part series; the episode begins with a continuation of my conversation with Brian Collins in part one. Brian shares his side of Diego's story—how Diego first got in touch, how he became a full-time employee, and why, on one of their early days together, Brian took him out to run errands throughout New York City.

After a short intro from Brian, the interview with Diego begins. I was eager to get Diego's backstory—it's fascinating (and inspiring) to hear how he got from a small town outside Austin, Texas to Collins in New York City. Along the way, he emailed with Michael Beirut, did multiple remote internships, and wrote The Dropout Manifesto (a chronicle of [my] crazy junior year).

We also talked about the importance of agencies and design studios looking outside the traditional design schools, like SVA and RISD—schools Diego wasn't even aware of when he was in high school—for new talent.

I'm telling you now: If I was out to start a studio today, I would practically build it solely on young ambitious people led by a really great creative director, head of design. Because the level of talent who reaches out to me personally, because they see I'm the design apprentice on the [Collins] website—the level of talent is insane. They are so, so, so good. ... There's no doubt they can add value. It's just, they didn't come from the same places that all the other designers came from, and we've gotta be okay with that."

– Diego Segura

Alina Wheeler has a doppelgänger named Blake Deutsch

Saison 4 · Épisode 7

lundi 21 décembre 2020 • Durée 47:34

Today's guest is Alina Wheeler, best known as the author of Designing Brand Identity: An Essential Guide for the Whole Branding Team, now in its fifth edition. One of my favorite memories of this book is seeing it on a desk when I arrived to my first day on the job at Labbrand, where I worked in Shanghai. I already knew the book, but seeing it in use, so far from home—that's when I really understood how influential of a book it is. In fact, it's been translated into Chinese, Spanish, Arabic, Portuguese, French, and other languages—and it's used by brand, marketing, and design teams, undergraduate and graduate students, and brand and business consultancies all over the world.

I wanted to get an idea of why Alina wrote the book and what she was doing beforehand (around 2003). Along with being an author, she's a designer with over 40 years of experience working with teams in the public and private sector. She's led the development of integrated brand identity programs, sales and marketing strategies, and design and communications systems.

I was excited to have the opportunity to talk to Alina about her career, the book she's created, and what the future holds for Designing Brand Identity. During the conversation, I learned that there will be a sixth edition but she won't be the author (!!!), how she gets case studies and quotes for the book, and the true identity of the mysterious Blake Deutsch. (It's hilarious—listen to find out.)

Toward the end of the conversation, I asked Alina whether there's anything she'd like to support and ask that others check out, and she talked about Simon Charwey, a brand identity designer and anthologist on indigenous African design systems and African Symbology. Simon's work includes the African Logo Design book, a compendium of 1,000 unique symbols inspired by indigenous African design systems, symbols, and culture. And off the air, Alina also mentioned Certified B Corporations, something else she's passionate about and recommends everyone checks out.

Nirm Shanbhag sees brand architecture from the consumer's perspective

Saison 4 · Épisode 6

lundi 7 décembre 2020 • Durée 53:45

Nirm Shanbhag is the Chief Strategy Officer of Sid Lee USA, an international creative company. He's also my old boss. Back in 2012, he was running the San Francisco office of Interbrand, and he hired me as Director of Verbal Identity. Before Interbrand, Nirm earned his MBA from London Business School and worked in advertising, at firms like Mullen and McCann. He also ran his own, independent agency, Notch Strategy, for about six years between his roles at Interbrand and Sid Lee.

Nirm and I have worked together quite a bit—first at Interbrand, then as independent consultants. We've been called in on brand architecture projects a few times, and Nirm is one of just a handful of people I consider an expert on the topic. Since I haven't had too many (any) episodes focused on brand architecture, I was eager to get Nirm to share some of his insights into brand architecture—what it is, why it matters, and how it should be done. Throughout the conversation, Nirm came back time and again to the idea of keeping the consumer's journey front and center, considering their motivations and approaches to decision-making.

We also talked about brand purpose, and whether brands are good or bad for society (heady stuff). At the end of the conversation, Nirm recommended two very different books: The Experience Economy ("a seminal work and … one that not a lot of people know about") and A Brief History of Time, by Stephen Hawking.

I've probably read [A Brief History of Time] four times in my life. The reason I think it's worthwhile is because, yeah, it's about physics, but at its heart it's a book about perspective and recognizing that your perspective can change."

– Nirm Shanbhag

To learn more about Nirm and Sid Lee, visit . I also recommend you check out some of Nirm's blog posts on the .

Emily Heyward builds brands that inspire obsession

Saison 4 · Épisode 5

lundi 23 novembre 2020 • Durée 40:46

Emily Heyward is co-founder and and Chief Brand Officer at Red Antler, the leading brand company for startups and new ventures. Red Antler is the branding firm behind brands like Casper, Allbirds, Keeps, and Burrow. They also work with established brands like American Express, HBO, Google, and Gap.

Emily was named among the Most Important Entrepreneurs of the Decade by Inc. Magazine, and has also been recognized as a Top Female Founder by Inc. and one of Entrepreneur's Most Powerful Women of 2019. She's also the author of a new book, Obsessed: Building a Brand People Love from Day One.

I asked Emily what makes Red Antler different from other branding firms and what makes it, in the words of a 2018 Adweek article, one of "the surprisingly small group of branding shops behind today's top challenger brands." She says Red Antler was "the first creative services company that was designed and built to work with startups" and, as a result, "we've thought about brand in an incredibly holistic way … with obviously a particular focus on digital."

Next, we turned to Emily's book, Obsessed.

"The book really came out of 12 years of running Red Antler, launching new, disruptive businesses into the world, and seeing the ways in which brands' relationships with consumers are shifting. … The rules are not the same as they were, certainly 20 years ago, but even six years ago. Things keep changing."

– Emily Heyward

Then we turned to the events of 2020, and I asked Emily for her take on how brands should respond to racial injustice, as well as the COVID pandemic. Lastly, I asked Emily some wrap-up questions, including a brand/initiative she recommends checking out (the 15 Percent Pledge), a book recommendation and her advice to you people in the industry:

Armin Vit has a little grid in his mind

Saison 4 · Épisode 4

lundi 9 novembre 2020 • Durée 57:17

Today's guest is Armin Vit, co-founder of UnderConsideration, a graphic design firm, and editor and writer for Brand New, the leading site for reviews of corporate and brand identity design work. Born and raised in Mexico City, Armin—along with his wife and partner, Bryony Gomez-Palacio—have created multiple other design blogs, co-authored books, and organized events like the annual Brand New Conference. I was excited to talk to Armin about design trends, blogging, and the pros and cons of being a professional critic.

The conversation started with some ancient history, going back to a blog called "Speak Up," and FutureBrand's 2003 redesign of Paul Rand's UPS logo, which gave rise to Brand New.

I asked Armin how he selects which work to review on Brand New, and he said he has a "little grid" in his mind. The more people are likely to be familiar with the client, the more likely he is to write about the work. If the client is small and unknown, the work has to be groundbreaking. Much of the work he sees is "fine"—but work that's just fine is actually less interesting than work that's terrible.

I meet other designers [that] will joke that they are always wondering ... what I might say. They're always thinking about, 'Oh shit, I hope this doesn't make it on Brand New. Or if it does, I hope it goes fine.' It just increases that level of stress ... but in a positive way that I have to make sure that what I'm saying is valuable to as many people as possible and doesn't put down anyone just for the sake of it.

Armin Vit

Armin and I went on to talk about a design trend he's seen lately: a stampede of wordmarks featuring geometric sans fonts, like Airbnb and Google, and the backlash against them, epitomized by the Chobani logotype.

Next, we discussed how design and branding can make a positive impact on the world, his experience as a Mexican-American immigrant and how it influences his thinking as a designer—especially given some of the Trump administration's rhetoric and policies toward immigrants and Mexico in particular.

Sunny Bonnell reframes your vices as virtues

Saison 4 · Épisode 3

lundi 26 octobre 2020 • Durée 51:39

On the podcast today: Sunny Bonnell, co-founder of Motto, one of the leading branding agencies in the country, with clients like Google, Hershey's, and Twentieth Century Fox. Sunny and her co-founder, Ashleigh Hansberger, recently wrote their first book, Rare Breed: A Guide to Success for the Defiant, Dangerous, and Different. Sunny says the book started with a question: "What if you could take the parts of yourself that other people criticize—traits they call defiant, dangerous, and different—and turn those things into your selling points?"

We talked about how Sunny and Ashleigh arrived at the seven "virtues" in Rare Breed:

Rebellious
Audacious
Obsessed
Hot-blooded
Weird
Hypnotic
Emotional

If you're curious which virtue applies to you, try the Rare Breed quiz. Sunny and Ashleigh also host a YouTube series, also called Rare Breed, where they sit down with guests like Charlamagne Tha God and Jon Batiste. I asked Sunny about Motto's origin story, the challenges of being one of very few female-owned agencies, the importance of diversity, and more. Toward the end of the conversation, Sunny recommended a few books: It's Not How Good You Are, It's How Good You Want to Be and Whatever You Think, Think the Opposite, both by Paul Ardern, as well as The Hero and the Outlaw, by Margaret Mark and Carol Pearson. We ended with some of Sunny's motivating advice for anyone trying to grow their career: "Own who you are. In a world that wants to own you, owning yourself in this way can really hurt like hell. Being defiant, dangerous, and different is a gift. Succeed because of who you are, not despite who you are." To learn more about Sunny, check out her agency's work at . is available now on and elsewhere. And, if you go to , you can watch episodes of Sunny and Ashleigh's YouTube show and take the Rare Breed quiz. If you take the quiz or read the book, drop us a line on social media-I'd love to hear your thoughts, and I'm sure Sunny would, too. Episode sponsors

Dava Guthmiller makes the invisible visible

Saison 4 · Épisode 2

lundi 12 octobre 2020 • Durée 44:25

In this episode, I'm talking to Dava Guthmiller, founder and Chief Creative Officer at Noise 13, a brand strategy and design agency based in San Francisco. She's also cofounder of In/Visible Talks, and annual conference that celebrates the art of design and creativity, and In/Visible Project, which includes a collection of other events that bring people together over the process, inspiration, and challenges for design and creative professionals.

Throughout the conversation, we touched on diversity in the worlds of design and branding. I asked Dava what it was like to start Noise 13 as a young, female designer, and how In/Visible Talks is giving a platform to a racially diverse and heavily female-leaning group of speakers.

Next, we got into the weeds a bit on how Dava built the In/Visible Talks brand. She told me where the name came from and how the visual identity for year one involved a trip to the dollar store.

We rounded out the conversation, as we often do on the podcast, with book recommendations and advice for young professionals in the branding and design industry. Dava recommended The Empathy Edge by Maria Ross (see Maria's post on How Brands Are Built) and Marty Neumeier's Brand Flip. And she had several pieces of advice for young designers, including encouragement to try many different internships and jobs until you find the best fit: "Take internships. Find a mentor. Try it on. Try a small company. Try in-house. Try something big. This is your life. This is your job. Find the right project team fit for you, so that your life is not miserable."

To learn more about Dava, visit Noise 13 or In/Visible Talks. The annual conference will be on Jan 14, 2021, and early bird tickets are on sale now.

Dr. Jason Chambers explains the origins of racist brands

Saison 4 · Épisode 1

lundi 28 septembre 2020 • Durée 51:47

Season four has arrived, and my first guest is Dr. Jason Chambers of the University of Illinois. The theme for this season will be a bit looser than past seasons, but I'm hoping to get perspectives on the social impact of brands and branding. In other words, are brands a good thing for society, overall? In light of what's happened in 2020-the pandemic, protests for racial justice, increasingly extreme weather as a result of climate change, and even the U.S. presidential election-this topic felt relevant.

I first heard Dr. Chambers on 1A, a podcast from WAMU that's distributed by NPR, where he talked about "reckoning with racist brands" like Aunt Jemima and the Washington, D.C., NFL team. I was excited to talk to Dr. Chambers in a little more detail about these brand names, where they come from, why they should change, and how to change them.

Dr. Chambers's research is focused on the history of African Americans in the advertising industry, a topic about which he's written a book: Madison Avenue and the Color Line: African Americans in the Advertising Industry. Given his expertise, I also wanted to get his take on diversity in the agency world.

I don't often interview professors on the show (which makes sense, given it's a show about "how brands are built"), but I had so much fun talking to Dr. Chambers and exploring his in-depth knowledge of these subjects; I hope this is not the last time I host an academic or professor on the show.

To hear more from Dr. Chambers, I encourage you to check out the episode of 1A he joined, "Reckoning With Racist Brands." You can also find his opinions in publications like Ad Age, Adweek, CNN, Forbes, Black Enterprise, and The New York Times. He's written another book, too: Lastly, you can of course find him on the and .

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