Drowned in Sound – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Elijah is a profound thinker and this conversations draws on his influential grime nights with Stormzy & Skepta, writing about music, DJing and to his Yellow Square instagram posts, which are a form of community-building journalism that act as prods and prompts that agitate thoughts into focus.

DiS021 | S2: The Future of the Music Press EP13

From his experience as a pirate radio DJ to running Butterz label & clubnights to being a musician and artist manager, Elijah considers yellow squares to be a former of journalism and the conversation explores the ecosystem that feeds into it and swirls around it.

In this conversation with Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams, we discuss mediums and spaces, online platforms and club cultures. The conversation sways from curation as a form of journalism, the YouTube mindset, Twitter, 10 minute or 10 hour radio shows.

We also try to deconstruct the gatekeeper and the creative challenges facing people working in music, journalism and anything that involves publishing online. We also discuss the joy of Tumblr, yow electronic music in the UK clusters around its pirate radio, BBC media structures,  and why not all clubs closing is a bad thing.

Quotes out of context:

“What’s the musical equivalent of a community note?”

“Some people say ‘I don’t make any money’. Well, what do you sell?”

“Imagine if a review is all the possibilities that the album lays down”

“It's one bit of work.  With all these different mediums,  but it’s just the language hasn't adjusted  to, to serve that yet, you know what I'm saying?”

“…there's a hundred thousand, ten thousand histories happening at once. And that's like something that music journalism, the box, cannot fully capture.”

“People just think, ‘oh, that's their job to write about music.’ And it's like, no, their job is to sell advertising space  wrapped around the coverage of music. That's what magazines have been historically. Right?”

Links

• Eli1ah on Instagram
• Various links: https://linktr.ee/Eli1ah
• YouTube recommendation: Super Eyepatch Wolf
• YouTube recommendation: Nathan Zed

• Make The Ting album
• Eli1ah's Resident Advisor Takeover
• Further reading: "Close The App, Make The Ting": Elijah's Yellow Squares are making a difference by cutting through the noise (DMY)
• Podcast referenced with Bandcamp founder

Please note, this conversation took place in November 2023.

If you're enjoying this podcast, please sign up and support our new newsletter at DrownedinSound.org.

How do you become a magazine editor that can put Kate Bush on the cover? And what’s it like running a genre-specific title in 2023?

In a world where the digital age is rapidly redefining media, Sean Adams (@seaninsound) meets a titan of the magazine world, Jerry Ewing, editor of PROG magazine for a rare interview. From his roots starting a Marillion-inspired fanzine to being at the helm of genre-defining publications such as Classic Rock and Metal Hammer, Jerry's journey is a testament to the enduring power of specialist knowledge and passion-driven journalism.

Episode Highlights:

• The Genesis of a Genre Journalist: Jerry recounts the serendipitous moments that led him from crafting a fanzine to steering the course of iconic music magazines.

• The Art of Magazine-making: Delve into the craft of curating content for a niche audience, the evolution of magazines in the internet era, and the potential resurgence akin to vinyl's comeback.

• Defining the Undefined: What is progressive rock? Jerry challenges the conventional confines, advocating for a broad, idea-driven definition that encompasses the innovative spirit of the genre.

• Adapting to the Beat of Change: The discussion turns to the seismic shifts in media consumption and the strategies for staying relevant in a landscape transformed by technology.

• The Human Touch: Jerry envisions a future where the human element is not just a feature but a proud declaration in magazine-making.

Notable Quotes from Jerry Ewing:

• "Progressive music's reach is quite wide... It's the ideas and the approach to making music that sets them apart."

• "Understanding your readers is crucial... Be comfortable with your readership, and they'll feel comfortable with you."

• "The editor guides the magazine... decides what goes in it, helps point the tone."

• "For our readers, it's the music that matters... They're not interested in sex, drugs, and rock and roll."

• "Communication between human beings is at the root of journalism."

Further Insights:

• From Court Jester to PROG: Jerry's DIY beginnings and the transition from fanzine to professional journalism.

• The Inclusive Vision of Prog: Embracing a wide spectrum from prog metal to experimental indie, Jerry's editorial direction is as diverse as the genre itself.

• The Editor's Role: Setting the tone and creating a dialogue with music aficionados, Jerry's editorial philosophy is about crafting a space for in-depth musical exploration.

• The Vinyl Moment for Magazines: Speculating on the tangible allure of print in the digital age, and the unique value it could regain.

Links:

• PROG Magazine
• Jerry Ewing on Twitter
• Subscribe to Drowned in Sound on Substack

Journalist, podcaster and climate communicator Greg Cochrane shares how interviewing ANOHNI changed his life, what it was like editing NME’s website, the joy of being involved in Loud & Quiet magazine plus a little bit about writing for The Guardian, interviewing Lady Gaga for the BBC, and plenty more.

The focus of our conversation is around the importance of understanding the intersection between the climate emergency and culture. “We need more stories about what’s happening” said Greg, in a really moving section of the podcast involving his hopes for the future of journalism. Toward the end, we also touch upon the economics of media and the creative economy as a self-sustaining ecosystem, including a shout out to Novara Media’s subscription model where people are encouraged to donate an hour of their salary.

Related Links

Read Greg’s life-changing interview with ANOHNI

https://www.loudandquiet.com/interview/anohni-hoping-for-a-miracle-cover-feature-interview/ 

Greg’s coverage of Billie Eilish’s recent “solutions focussed” Overheated event can be found here

https://www.nme.com/news/music/overheated-billie-eilish-mother-maggie-baird-interview-london-climate-event-3491598 

Rebecca Solinit on hope in an age of climate boomers is here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/26/we-cant-afford-to-be-climate-doomers 

Subscribe to the Sounds like a Plan music & climate podcast that Greg co-hosts with Fay Milton (from Savages, co-founder of Music Declares Emergency and new music project Goddess) 

https://linktr.ee/soundslikeaplanpodcast 

Learn more about Greg’s work with Heard - the communications charity who support individuals and organisations to tell better stories on climate. https://heard.org.uk/articles/climate-stories-that-work-turning-awareness-into-action/ 

Listen to Loud & Quiet’s podcast and subscribe to the magazine

https://www.loudandquiet.com/podcasts/ 

Learn more about the Reuters Institute’s Oxford Climate Journalism Network

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/oxford-climate-journalism-network 

Kickstarter's co-founder Yancey Strickler shares lessons from Fugazi's label and Beastie Boys' Grand Royal magazine and discusses the forward-thinking ethos of The Royal Society, a prestigious fellowship of the world's most eminent scientists.

Yancey is a big thinker, a music lover, writer and a 'zine publisher. He wrote about music for Pitchfork, Village Voice, eMusic (with many of the current Bandcamp Editorial team) and more, before becoming a notable figure in creative project funding at Kickstarter and now Metalabel. He shares a wealth of insights on the intersection of music journalism and the quest for authentic creative expression in the digital age.

• Discover more about Yancey's work on ystrickler.com or follow him on Twitter @ystrickler.
• Learn more about The Royal Society
• Read Yancey's viral essay on The Dark Forest Theory
• Discover Meta Label, an endeavour aimed at building infrastructure for the creative economy and making collective projects easier.
• Read about Grand Royal's fleeting yet impactful existence (The Atlantic).

Some Yancey Strickler quotes from this episode:

"To use the most obvious example, but you know, what if Taylor Swift had a magazine, right? Like, what if? What if Taylor Swift wanted to create a space to platform things that she celebrated, the things that she cared about, things she thought her fans wanted."

"Frank Ocean has been on that, you know, I think a lot of people in the hip-hop space have done a lot of creating wider platforms for themselves through fashion. Through other lines of cultural output that I think have proven to be extremely meaningful."

"...what is music journalism? I'm just gonna say it's ethnography and I'll go to your cartography comment. To me it's explaining lineages... What are the connections? What are the origins? What is the broader sweep in which this work appears? ...like, take me inside a world I wouldn't know otherwise. Help me appreciate that world the way people inside do. And I would say any, any, any piece, anybody that can do that I'm interested and that I think is a, true service and not that music journalism needs to be a service, but if I think it, how do you elevate above sharing an opinion, which is something that anyone can do. And so that has been rendered... Mapping the context, making that context, something that people can appreciate, that I think is maybe the highest form it can attain."

The Big Issue's Culture Editor Laura Kelly on their campaigning work, like Venue Watch to help save grassroots music venues across the UK.

As Laura says, "Across the UK, there was more than two venues closing every single week." Through Venue Watch, The Big Issue is raising awareness of the challenges facing venues and driving action by "telling the story of a venue" each week.

As part of Drowned in Sound's new season of podcasts about where music journalism is headed, we explore how sharing these stories and putting "values to the fore" allows The Big Issue's activist journalism to kickstart national conversations and create change.

We asked Laura how music journalism can go beyond entertainment to activism, and she responds "I think music journalism is about building that bridge between the art and the artist and the world around."

Laura offers an insightful look into The Big Issue's unique social mission and using journalism as "a force for good." We also shoutout James O'Brien, The Skinny, Music Venue Trust, Beyond the Music Festival, Duran Duran, Nick Cave, and Smash Hits.

Sign up to Venue Watch here:

https://www.bigissue.com/venuewatch

Read Laura's writing: https://www.bigissue.com/author/laura-kelly/

Follow Laura on Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurakaykelly

In this episode we mentioned that 16% of people working in the creative industries are working class, you can find the data behind that study here.

The Big Issue is a British magazine that provides a platform for homeless and vulnerably housed individuals to earn a legitimate income by selling the publication on the streets. It features a mix of social and cultural content, and its mission is to empower disadvantaged people through employment while raising awareness about homelessness and poverty-related issues.

Where is music journalism headed? Sean Adams (@seaninsound) introduces season* two of the Drowned in Sound podcast in the style of an editor's letter meets a meandering, unscripted voice memo.

TL;DR? To mark 23 years of Drowned in Sound, I decided to embark on a series of interviews with TikTokkers, rock writers, tech reporters and more to try to figure out whether things could be headed.

* = series?!

Everyone from Radiohead to Sugababes to industry insiders are raving about a new book by therapist and live music expert Tamsin Embleton. It's an extraordinary body of work entitled Touring and Mental Health: The Music Industry Manual, which includes contributions from a series of mental health experts providing insights and advice covering everything from breath-work to nutrition, and resilience to rest.

The book contains interviews with people who live and work on the road, alongside musicians including Pixies, Pharoahe Monch, Nile Rodgers, Radiohead, Four Tet, Lauren from Chvrches, Will Young, Justin Hawkins from The Darkness, and many more.

In this conversation with the author you'll learn more about the realities of the road, how touring with Nick Cave & Anna Calvi fed into the initial stages of this book, and why Live Nation has bought 3000 copies of it to put in dressing rooms. We discussed some of the topics in the book such as dressing room environments, dealing with the media and some simple changes the industry can make.

This is what Nile Rodgers had to say about the book: “The life of a musical artist can be a magnificent thing when you’re on stage experiencing the enthusiasm and appreciation for your work and seeing first-hand the incredible impact it can have…. There are however another 22 and a half hours in the day when you are not performing. Being away from home and the watchful eye of your loved ones can be incredibly hard work mentally as you go around the world at a pace dictated by the tour. Having what is effectively a mental health wellness manual to keep yourself in check is a wonderful initiative.”

Learn much more about the book over here touringmanual.com and you'll find @TamsinEmbleton on Twitter here.

Host: Sean Adams (@seaninsound)

Our series of conversations about Artificial Intelligence and music continues with a look at the ethics and legal implications of these new forms of technology that inhales creativity and spits out creativity using everything that has been fed into it. And not everything has gone in with permission, let alone consent.

At the spring 2023 budget, the UK government announced that they would be allowing AI firms to more easily access copyrighted material.... this seemed somewhat alarming to us as people who run a record label, manage musicians and care about the creative industries. Should be be worried?! We asked Dr Hayleigh Bosher, a leading expert on intellectual property to help us understand the law and the bigger philosophical issues with Artificial Intelligence technology using existing music to create new music.

Dr Hayleigh Bosher (@BosherHayleigh) is the author of Copyright in the Music Industry, is a senior lecturer in Intellectual Property Law at Brunel University, and hosts the brilliant Who's Song Is It Anyway? podcast.

Related Links

• Here's the 'Daddy's Car' Beatles AI track
• Listen to Who's Song Is it Anyway wherever you get your podcasts
• Hear more from Jeremy Hunt about the AI Sandbox
• Check out previous AI episodes with Endel and ChatGPT Prompt Generator David Boyle

In case it wasn't obvious, this a music podcast that hasn't had enough of experts and to mark International Women's Day 2023 we spoke to Vick Bain the founder of The F-List and President of ISM (the independent society of musicians), to her PhD research into inequality in the music industry.

This episodes covers everything from her research into the Ivors songwriting awards having a pitiful amount of women winners to setting up the F List database of female+ musicians.

In recent days, Vick Bain has appeared on the BBC's flagship programmes Woman's Hour and Newsnight, as well as spoken to The Guardian about what Glastonbury's Emily Eavis called a "pipeline problem" in trying to secure festival headliners that aren't male. 

This is the first in a series of conversations about inequality and the future of the music industry.

If you've been impacted by harassment within the music industry, visit WeAreMusic for a selection of links. 

For more about Drowned in Sound, join our Substack newsletter and follow our founder and podcast host @seaninsound.

“If you start out and it doesn't do something that you're very impressed by, your assumption should be that your prompt wasn't very good,” this summarises the advice from music industry veteran David Boyle, who specialises in understanding audiences, and over the last few months has become an expert in using ChatGPT (if you've not already, give it a go here). So much so he's co-written a book called PROMPT about, you guessed it, writing prompts to get artificial intelligence to give you better answers.

This conversation is aimed at musicians and people who work in the music industry, but the takeaways should be fairly obvious whatever you're trying to achieve. Our host, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams, shares some of the ways he's been using ChatGPT to get movie recommendations based on the songs that are on the soundtrack and using it to better understand the complex legalese in a contract.

This conversation has also inspired David and his team to write a new edit of PROMPT for musicians, taking in some of the elements and workflows we discussed. Drowned in Sound listeners can grab it at a special rate using this link. 

We hope you will find the practical examples and advice in this episode useful, and we would love to see screenshots or hear about how you've used it. Tweet @seaninsound and @beglen if you get chance. Actually, a sneaky tip, there's also a Twitter bot that you can send Qs to here.

Related Links

• the Hannah Peel tweet that inspired this episode.
• the Nick Cave blog post about ChatGPT.
• here's MidJourney, the AI image generator that's mentioned in this episode.
• this is where you can sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter on Substack.
• Water & Music have just released an interesting deep dive into AI and music - summed up in this Twitter thread