Conceptually Speaking – Détails, épisodes et analyse

In this episode of Conceptually Speaking, I sit down with Dr. Alexander Manshel, English professor at McGill University and author of Writing Backwards: Historical Fiction and the Reshaping of the American Canon, to explore the under discussed history of the high school English classroom—a space that is simultaneously the most influential literary institution in America and the most overlooked by literary scholars. Drawing from his recently published article “High School English and the Making of American Readers” and his forthcoming book High School English: A History of American Reading, our conversation traces how the interpretive practices we take for granted in English classrooms (like reading for character, reading for theme) were shaped by specific historical forces, from Cold War anxieties to the rise of New Criticism. Xander and I wrestle with what it means that these inherited methods quietly structure not just how students read, but how they understand themselves in relation to each other, society, and the very idea of America.

Key Concepts from the Episode:

High School English as Literary Institution

• The high school English classroom as the place where more people read more literature more often than anywhere else—and yet largely ignored by literary scholars
• A persistent gulf between secondary and post-secondary English educators, despite shared students, shared problems, and a shared intellectual tradition
• How testing regimes and institutions like the College Board have come to mediate (rather than facilitate) cross-institutional dialogue

Genres, Methods, and the Pedagogy of Individualism

• Reading for character and reading for theme as products of post-WWII Cold War imperatives and New Criticism, not timeless defaults
• How the high school canon, from Catcher in the Rye to 1984, consistently frames literature through the lens of “individual versus society”, functioning as a pedagogy of individualism

The Canon Revisited

• Despite decades of canon war debates reshaping university syllabi, the most-taught texts at the high school level have remained remarkably stable
• The case for a living, evolving canon rather than an abolished one: these shared texts function as a national literary mythology with real cultural and political power
• How the canon wars at the university level has tended to elevate writers of color primarily for works set in the historical past, effectively disincentivizing studying the works of authors writing about the present

Continuing the trend of this series, our dialogue explores the structural issues plaguing English education (particularly testing regimes, standardization, and institutional isolation) that have narrowed what English can be, while insisting that the discipline’s shared texts, practices, and people offer a power we have yet to fully seize or realize. For teachers who want to know more about the history of their discipline and its methods, and for literary scholars who have yet to reckon with the place where most reading actually happens, this conversation offers both a historical accounting and a call to collective action. We hope you’ll join us in our quest to seize the means of curriculum! (T-shirt incoming).

High School English and the Making of American Readers (article — open access) How The Great Gatsby Took Over High School (New Yorker article)
Writing Backwards: Historical Fiction and the Reshaping of the American Canon (book)

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In this episode of Conceptually Speaking, I sit down with Dr. Jeffrey Lawrence, professor of 20th and 21st century American and Latin American literature at Rutgers University and author of Anxieties of Experience: The Literatures of the Americas from Whitman to Bolaño and the Spanish-language novel El Americano. Like me, Jeffrey has found himself intrigued by recent developments on Substack, where a growing literary scene is raising questions, debating issues, and engaging in conversations that don’t fit neatly into traditional academic venues. Our dialogue moves between the institutional structures that shape literary studies, the surprising public appetite for serious engagement with the humanities online, and what it might mean for secondary English education to reconnect with its disciplinary roots.

Key Concepts:

Public Humanities

• The distinction between community-engaged public humanities and public-facing writing that still operates through prestige networks
• What it means to invite people into a discourse rather than simply making that discourse more visible
• How Substack has opened space for a literary culture where thousands voluntarily participate in serious criticism outside the credentialing structures of the university

Disciplinary Fragmentation

• The silos within English departments (literary studies, composition and rhetoric, creative writing, etc.) and how those divisions shape what reaches K-12 classrooms
• How methods from rhet-comp and cultural studies seeped into secondary English education while literary studies seemed to turned inward
• The historical decline of cross-pollination between MLA and NCTE, and what that separation has cost both fields

The Canon Question

• The difference between treating the canon as a fixed inheritance and treating it as a living tradition that can be renegotiated in each moment
• Why refusing to engage with questions of canonization has its own costs — including leaving students without the tools to participate in, critique, and renew long-standing intellectual communities
• Framing canon formation not as culture wars but as an ongoing disciplinary practice students can and should be invited into

Defending the Humanities

• How the defense of the humanities can be seen as being too intramural and why that hasn’t worked
• What genuine heterogeneity might look like in literary studies, and why public platforms may offer something the academy currently does not
• The gatekeeping mechanisms that constrain academic publishing and hiring, and how they limit the range of voices and methodological commitments in the field

In what’s quickly becoming a theme in these conversations, we also discuss how the people best positioned to connect literary culture to a broader public (high school English teachers!) have often been alienated from it through regimes of high stakes testing and curricular standardization. For educators who share that sense that something essential has been lost in the way English is taught and structured since the neoliberal turn within K-16 education, this conversation offers both a diagnosis and a provocation. 

Jeffrey’s Substack

Anxieties of Experience

El Americano

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For this episode I'm joined by friend of the show Rod Naquin, a Louisiana based education leader and doctoral student whose research and writing explores the intersection between dialogue, learning, and large language models. Drawing on thinkers and theories from his research, Rod invites educators to stop viewing artificial intelligence as a completionist tool or sentient machine and instead regard it as a new form of dialogic computing. His articulation of LLMs challenges common perceptions of AI as merely a productivity tool, instead proposing a more interactive, discourse-driven approach to using language models in educational settings.

Rod offers concrete examples of how educators can apply this approach, emphasizing AI's potential as an analytical partner rather than an omniscient source. He advocates for a nuanced approach that leverages AI's capabilities while preserving essential human elements in the learning process. This episode provides valuable insights for educators, researchers, and anyone interested in the future of AI in education. 

Key concepts explored in this episode:

1. Dialogic Computing: Reframing AI interactions as collaborative dialogues rather than simple input-output exchanges
2. Paradigm Shifts: Examining parallels between historical communication changes and current AI-driven transformations
3. Post-Literacy: Considering the emergence of an era where AI-mediated text takes on speech-like qualities
4. Dynamic Equilibrium: Balancing AI assistance with human comprehension and critical thinking
5. Affordances and Constraints: Understanding the capabilities and limitations of AI in educational contexts

In addition to his research on dialogue, Rod has deep expertise in high-quality instructional materials and hosts The Science of Dialogue podcast. A husband and father of twins, he resides in Bayou Gauche. You can find Rod on Twitter/X.com as @rodjnaquin and read his writings at rodjnaquin.substack.com.

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To say we’re living through a moment of education polarization would be a mild understatement. Considering the digital echo chambers we all find ourselves in, I believe it’s more important than ever to engage with people who may move in different circles and have different perspectives, but share some foundational beliefs about democracy, wisdom, and advancing the public good. My guest this week is Dr. Ashley Rogers Berner—and she was the perfect person for just such an exchange. As the director of and professor for John Hopkin’s Institute for Educational Policy, she is well versed in the history of educational policy both in the states and abroad. One of the more compelling parts of our dialogue was Dr. Berner’s insight into the way many European systems fund and operate their schools. In fact, her comparative research serves as the basis for the fairly unique, heterodox views on educational policy explored in her recent book: Educational Pluralism and Democracy. Though we have contrasting thoughts on a number of pedagogical approaches and policy prescriptions, Ashley was a generous interlocuter who shares my love for the Humanities, pluralism, and the fledgling project of American democracy. Considering I don’t have too many policy conversations on the podcast, I think I learned more in this episode than in most others I’ve recorded. I hope you find it as informative and thought provoking as I do.

Dr. Ashley Rogers Burner's Faculty Page

Educational Pluralism and Democracy: How to Handle Indoctrination, Promote Exposure, and Rebuild America's Schools

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One of the best things about attending conferences is the conversations, connections, and collaborations that emerge after the sessions are over. Last year, I was lucky to meet Dr. Andrea Gambino at NCTE 2023 in Columbus. Andrea earned her Ph.D. in Education from UCLA in 2023 and is an active co-organizer of the annual Critical Media Literacy Conference of the Americas. Her research and practice draws on her experiences implementing critical media literacy as a tool for advancing self, social, and environmental justice. The passion, sincerity, and depth of knowledge she brings to to her research and practice is incredible and made for a powerful conversation. One of the things that makes Andrea’s research particularly unique is that, in addition to having a rich understanding of how to teach critical media literacy, her scholarship also considers the rich, embodied experiences of teachers wrestling with that work in their classrooms. Andrea is an incredibly engaging conversationalist and really got me fired up about ways we can support teachers and students efforts to better navigate the dumpster fire that is our current political discourse and media ecosystem. There’s much to learn, so enjoy!

UCLA's Critical Media Literacy Guide
Dr. Gambino's LinkedIn

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The emergence of ChatGPT has sent shockwaves through many secondary and post-secondary English departments. There’s no shortage of doomsaying and prognosticating about the future of writing instruction, even the discipline itself, in the wake of the large language model revolution. Luckily for us, my guest today is Dr. J Palmeri—Professor of English and Director of the Writing Program at Georgetown University. J’s work exploring the past, present, and future of multimodal composition is some of the richest, most comprehensive scholarship I’ve seen. Better still, J practices what they preach in the classroom. Over the course of our dialogue, J details the ways they use new media pedagogy to learn with students, embrace play, compose for real audiences, hack technology, center learning, and ultimately to rethink teaching and learning. There is no shortage of philosophical questions and practical suggestions, but my favorite part of this episode is the way J situates his work on multimodality within a broader story—one that will likely resonate with many of you. This episode is a powerful reminder of why technology is only a tool. Whether that technology is tactile, digital, or artificial intelligence, there is no replacing the deeply human parts of teaching, learning, and communicating alongside others.

Faculty Page
100 Years of New Media Pedagogy (Open Source Book)
Academic Research (Google Scholar)

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For anyone who’s been tuned into Conceptually Speaking for a while, you know I love finding new approaches, perspectives, and frames to tackle complex issues. Despite the fact that’s a staple on the show, my guest for this episode, Dr. Sheena Mason, takes things to the next level. Dr. Mason is an author, professor, and creator of the theory of racelenss. A theory that, in her words, is a creative and forward-thinking approach that helps people stop the underlying causes and effects of racism—the existence of race itself. Unlike naturalists, who see race as biological, or constructionists, who regard race as a social construction, Dr. Mason invites readers to become race skeptics—in other words—to understand that what traits we attribute to race, can be more accurately described by terms like ethnicity, culture, social class, and economic class. For, as she argues in her upcoming book, The Raceless Antiracist, fighting racism by reifying the idea of race is like trying to stop a flood by dousing it with water. In short, Dr. Mason envisions a future that transcends race in ways that allow us to celebrate our shared humanity AND value our many differences. Building on sociologists like Karen and Barba Fields, authors like Toni Morrison and James Baldwin, as well as a bevy of literary scholars and critics, Dr. Mason’s work is paradigm-shifting work. So! Hold onto your brains, listen with an open mind, and brace yourself for a very different look at antiracism work.

Note: The introduction contains some direct verbiage from the "Racelessness: The Final Frontier" graphic essay.

https://www.theoryofracelessness.org/
https://twitter.com/SheenaMasonPhD

The core rules of the theory of racelessness or raceless antiracism are as follows: 

1. Our belief in “race” and practice of racialization are not meaningless, because racism and valuable aspects of humanity hide behind what we call “race.” 
2. “Race” does not exist in nature for humans or as a social construction. Although we are all racialized by ourselves and others, we are raceless. 
3. Race/ism (i.e., racism) is a system of economic and social oppression that requires the belief in “race” and the practice of racialization to subsequently reinforce various power imbalances.
4.  Racialization is the process of applying an inescapable social hierarchy—race/ism—along with its attendant power imbalances. 
5. Racism does not exist everywhere in the same way and can be overcome.

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Complaining about the theory-practice divide in education feels a bit cliche, but there’s a reason why it’s a constant source of conversation and consternation in classrooms, conferences, and academic journals. As someone with their feet firmly planted in both worlds, I’m always excited to connect with other educators who can bridge that divide—and my guest today is an exceptional example of just such a person. Shawna Coppola is a literacy specialist, educator, and author of the recently released Literacy for All: A Framework for Anti-Oppressive Teaching from Routledge. Shawna’s framework is a pretty incredible distillation of a lot of literacy scholarship that informs my work, research, and conversations on this podcast. Our conversation today walks through each of its key principles, and while it’s an expansive dialogue, Shawna’s commitment to more liberatory approaches to literacy teaching is a throughline across the episode. Whether you’re a classroom teacher, administrator, or a professor working with pre-service teachers, this episode has a ton to offer. Enjoy!

https://shawnacoppola.com/
Literacy for All: A Framework for Anti-Oppressive Teaching 

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According to the late Octavia Butler, ”God is Change and in the end, God prevails.” Though Butler passed in 2006, her words resonate deeper than ever. And while she’s no longer able to chart out fantastical journeys across the stars, the philosophy that structures her work is one of the principle inspirations for adrienne marie brown’s book, Emergent Strategy. I won’t try to define the scope of Emergent Strategy in my introduction, but at its essence, it’s an orientation, stance, framework, and spellbook for organizing and facilitating change. My guest this week, Jeffrey Austin, is a literacy consultant with Wayne, RESA in South East Michigan, has been using adrienne marie brown’s work to facilitate team meetings, structure professional learning, and support educators across his district. It takes us the whole of the episode to unearth what emergent strategy is and how it might look in an educational context, but Jeffrey’s brilliant explanations and examples were incredibly powerful and tangible. In fact I think this might be one of my most useful episodes yet for educational leaders and organizers. There are a number of reasons for this, but principle among those is the fact that Jeffrey doesn’t just offer platitudes about changing educational systems. He embodies it. If my intro has you curious, consider this episode your primer for diving into the world of Emergent Strategy. Enjoy!

Jeffrey's Blog
Emergent Strategy (Book)
Literacy Essentials: Disciplinary Literacy (6-12)

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What if I told you there’s a magical place where young people spend hours upon hours discussing, sharing, creating, and theorizing about their favorite books? What if I told you that place was TikTok? Or, more specifically, a corner of TikTok known as BookTok. Well, that’s what this week’s episode is all about. My guest this week is Dr. Sarah Jerasa, Assistant Professor of Literacy at Clemson University in the Department of Education and Human Development. In addition to being a friend of the show and fellow member of the Writing and Literacies Special Interest Group, Sarah is currently researching the impact of BookTok on reading, writing, and creating content about literature. Far from being a random trending topic or flash-in-the-pan hashtag, the discourse on BookTok has already proven to have a major impact on the publishing industry and features millions of book lovers connecting over their most loved and loathed books. Considering the popularity and influence digital spaces have on literacy practices, Sarah believes (and I agree) it’s high time English teachers begin to consider how we can expand “what counts” as literacy in academic spaces. Even if you have no idea what a "For You Page" is or is generally anti-social media, this episode still has some worthwhile food for thought about the relationship between academic literacies, youth literacies, and the future of English Language Arts.

https://www.sarahjerasa.com/
https://twitter.com/saraheconroy
BookTok 101: TikTok, Digital Literacies, and Out-of-School Reading Practices

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