Agave Road Trip (Heritage Radio Network)

Since mezcal is often around 50% ABV, that means it’s also around 50% water. Does that water help hydrate you? What about the water in beer, which is often around 95% of that pint. And coffee? That’s more than 99% water. So … what exactly is the deal with hydration? We’re under water in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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How do you turn 24,000 acres of wild maguey Lamparillo and dasylirion into beer? You bring Mike Schallau of is/was brewing to Durango to hang out with Sergio Garnier of Mezcal Ultramundo! Mike has been making beer since 2018 with agave I’ve brought him from Mexico, to fundraise for SACRED. This year, he made the trip himself. The beer is in the works and should be ready for your glass this summer! But this episode of Agave Road Trip is ready to be consumed now!

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John McEvoy wrote what has to be the first English-language book for mezcal geeks: Holy Smoke! It’s Mezcal came out in 2014. So when John sent us an email complaining that we “left out the most important part” in our “Tequila vs Mezcal” episode … well, we invited him on to try to convince him that he’s wrong. Will it work? Can we change the mind of the man who goes by Mezcal PhD? Find out in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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You can’t log onto a Facebook Tequila group without seeing Cristalino Tequila derided, abused, and generally treated as some kind of punch line. But … do those user groups reflect the average consumer? Does the average consumer matter as much as the more highly engaged consumers that populate these online groups? And does consumption itself matter as much as cultural heritage? And why do I like the average Tequila Cristalino more than I like the average Tequila? That’s what I discuss with my past self on this time-travel episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Lou Bank from the Past and filled with interview clips from Jaime Salas of Proximo and Jose Cuervo Tequila; Juan Eduardo Nuñez of Tequila El Viejito; Tequila-geek royalty Khrys Maxwell; dean of American whiskey journalism, Chuck Cowdery, and Barbara Engelskirchen from the National Museum of Mexican Art.

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When Kendall Jenner released 818 Tequila, social-media caught fire. It seemed to make a bunch of bartenders mad. Then she appeared on Instagram wearing a huipil and the phrase “cultural appropriation” started to get thrown around. But … for years now, Chava has been begging me to wear one of those traditional Mexican garments. So if I had, would I have been appropriating that culture? In this episode of Agave Road Trip, Chava and I talk about celebrity tequila, cultural appropriation, and how fine I would look in a huipil.

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Photo Courtesy of 818 Tequila

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Chava got a bug. After consulting the Ebers Papyrus and an appointment with Pliny the Elder, he chose a mezcal shot over a flu shot. Cocktail MD Dr. Ryan Aycock joins us to get Chava back on the mend and to answer the burning question: can mezcal actually be medicinal? Join us for a booster episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Some folks are wondering what we mean when we say “gringo.” Here’s the deal….

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In this conversation with Eric Zandona we try to address one of the elephants in the room: can mezcal flavor be powerful enough to convert a non-believer? Are these plants communicating a full culture through a glass or is this just a blatant exaggeration? Eric has been lucky enough to have tasted hundreds if not thousands of spirits from all around the world and he was generous enough to try and tackle why this may or may not make sense.

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This episode was inspired by a post that Mexican distiller Tomas Nava made in the Facebook group Mezcal Society. His post was inspired by the entry for “foreshots” at SpiritsBeacon.com. The response from Tom Bartram of Speciality Brands gave me the excuse to reconnect with Tom!

Bonus! Tom’s puntas-filled annecdote!

It’s the cleanest spirit you can drink! It’s made from the best sugar source in the world! It’s made by hand! So … how could there possibly be such a thing as bad mezcal? Find out in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Okay, to be fair, that title is 100% click-bait. Or, rather, it’s click-bait if you’re one of the agave geeks who even knows that the CRM is the body that certifies mezcal. Or, rather, that the CRM is *a* body that certifies mezcal – but *used* to be the sole body. And the end of the monopoly paired with the chaos over who controls the CRM … ? Well, that’s what the “death” part of the title refers to. Listen to this episode of Agave Road Trip if you want to join us in trying to sort out exactly what’s happening with this institution.

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Before you can ferment those agaves to make alcohol, you’ve got to convert the carbohydrates into sugars. One way to do that is cooking. And one way to cook the agave is underground. And, yep, there are lots of ways to do that, which leads us to the question, "Do mezcaleros need to know how many grams of smoke per kilo are in their cooked agave?" Find out in "What’s Smoke Got to Do with It?” — the latest episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Do you wash that fruit before you cut it? Add salt after juicing? Freeze it? And before you drink it, maybe give that juice a second sniff...? We're joined in this episode by Dr. Ryan Aycock, Cocktail MD, for the lowdown on bacteria and how it can sneak up on you either in a gringx bar or on the roadsides in rural Mexico!

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The Distilled Spirits Council of the US released their 2022 report detailing who sold what, how that changed from the previous year, and suggesting where the market is going. Such great information! So Chava and I went through the report separately and each identified three facts in the report. In this episode of Agave Road Trip, we bicker over what those facts mean, what they don’t mean, and where we really think everything is headed!

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How do you find reliable sources for information about adult beverages? This is a multi-billion dollar industry, there should be reliable places to learn about trends. But I keep seeing significant errors in articles about agave spirits — which leads me to question what I’m reading about other spirits. And food. It’s an “On the Media” episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Jay West of Whiskey Raiders.

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Okay, we really liked our conversation with renowned food journalist Dan Saladino, author of Eating to Extinction. In last week’s episode, we talked about the importance of consuming a diversity of options. This week, we talk with him about the importance of that diversity coming from a specific place. And maybe that place should be where you live. We think about staying parked in place in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Episode Art Courtesy of Ivan Vazquez 

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Not an actual episode of Agave Road Trip, but a cleverly disguised episode of Modern Bar Cart, Eric Kozlik’s cocktail podcast for home bartenders and industry pros alike. Erik interviews Chava and Lou and proves that they actually can talk for more than 15 minutes.

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There’s a lot of moral outrage around the harvesting of agave that hasn’t yet reached maturity. But … when exactly is agave mature? By whose standards? And if the agave is getting harvested before it can produce seeds — which is always the case when you’re using the agave to make spirits — how is it a morals issue whether you harvest that agave a week before or a couple years before it reaches maturity? We light the fuse in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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That incredible beer-not-beer was made by tlachiquero Marco Antonio of pulqueria El rincon de Mayahuel in San Felipe, Guanajuato. I was introduced to Marco by Malena Villasuso and Juan Pedro Valdes of Mezcal Villasuso. This episode was recorded outdoors at Bárbaro Asador de Campo, an amazing table-in-farm restaurant in Queretaro, where we stopped to have lunch with our travel companions: environmental scientist and SACRED program manager Regina Gonzalez and Brian Rabon of 30A Distilling Company.

The agave has one mission in life: to reproduce. It spends its life generating the energy it needs to fulfill that mission. So ... does it tell us something when one agave takes significantly longer -- decades longer, even -- to reach maturity than another agave? I've got a theory about that, and I bother Chava with it in this week's episode of Agave Road Trip!

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The fist time I tasted an agave spirit fermented in the skin of a bull, it was all anyone was talking about in Oaxaca. I tasted it at three mezcalerias, and all three bottles were made by Amando Alvarado Alvarez in Santa Maria Ixcatlan, Oaxaca. I made my way out to visit him a few months later, to see the bull-skin fermenters myself. And when I share his spirits at tastings, everyone is in awe of these bull-skin fermenters. But … why bull skins? Where did that start? I think I have the answer! And I share it with you in this speculative episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Sergio Garnier of Mezcal Ultramundo.

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Yeah yeah yeah. I know. Plastic is killing the world. But it’s hardly the only thing. And in the case of ecoSpirits, it’s maybe also saving the world. We talk about the complicated path of sustainability in what’s sure to be another contentious episode of Agave Road Trip!

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I’m seeing a lot more restaurants expanding their Mezcal selections, and a lot more events pairing Mezcal with food. So what do you eat when you drink Mezcal? I asked a bunch of industry folks that question over the last several months, then coerced food, science, and nature journalist Rowan Jacobsen to dig through those quotes with me to add his own thoughts. It’s a smorgasbord episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with guest cohost Rowan Jacobsen and insights and thoughts from Lanie Bayless of Topolobampo, Francisco Tapia of Tacovision, Grace Gonzalez of Tequila El Mayor, Mariana Alvarado-Garcia of Masazul, Kate Owca and Adrian Villarreal of Tahona, and mezcaleros Jorge Torres and Eduardo Angeles!

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What’s the difference between tequila and mezcal? Is all tequila really mezcal? Is all mezcal made by hand? These and other questions are answered in this episode of Agave Road Trip! Agave Road Trip helps gringo bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. Your hosts are Lou Bank and Chava Periban.

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One of the hundreds of trends in the world of drinks right now is the zero-proof, nonalcoholic cocktail. Which is what we used to call an iced tea north of the border and an agua fresca south of the border. And, yeah, I recognize that it’s not simply that. But it’s also that … and more! We talk Mexican terroir, traditional herbs, and delicious liquid flavors in this week’s episode of Agave Road Trip!

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After you cook your agave, you’ve gotta mill it – make tiny, little pieces of those giant, cooked agaves. How do you do that? We explain it here and maestro mezcalero Eduardo Angeles joins. Then we talk about how to avoid explosive diarrhea while eating great street food in Mexico. And chocolate.

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The amount of time that mezcaleros take to make their spirits is an essential ingredient in the process. But it’s also in stark contrast to the amount of time that gringx bartenders have to share those agave spirits with their guests. What does that mean for those guests? And the future of those spirits? We’re running hot in this episode of Agave Road Trip! This episode is hosted by Lou Bank, Dr. Steven Alvarez of St. John’s University, and Ismael Gomez of Laika Spirits and Cruz de Fuego Mezcal.

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With all the press, all the talk, all the social-media posts, there are always people looking to find out what this Mezcal thing is all about. So what’s the best way to introduce them to these spirits? It’s a welcome-to-the-newbies episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Alcohol is nature’s great temperature regulator — it warms you up when you’re cold, and cools you down when you’re hot! Or … does it? Agave Road Trip’s Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Ryan Aycock, sets the record straight in this week’s episode!

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The best stuff is always in plastic water bottles — that’s a thing I hear from a lot of Mezcal geeks. But lately I’ve been reading a lot of stories in the news about how most of us have plastic in our blood stream. And that’s got me wondering … is the stuff brought back from Mexico in plastic water bottles really the best stuff, then? Or am I just drinking myself to death in an unexpected way? Agave Road Trip’s Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Ryan Aycock plastic-coats this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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If drinking mezcal that has snake venom in it killed you right away, there’d be a lot of dead people on the floor of the mercados around Mexico. But … could it be doing damage you don’t see right away? Our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr, Ryan Aycock, the Cocktail MD, checks in for a check up in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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If you dip your toe into the world of wine, some buzz phrases you’ll see are “regenerative viticulture” and “regenerative agriculture.” But, really, when you get right down to it, isn’t that really just milpa? Join us for a conversation about farming practices in Mexico, and about how those farming practices impact agave spirits, in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Four wheels good! Two wheels more good? For the last few years, Nick Barreiro has organized a moto-rally for small group of motorcycle-and-Mexico enthusiasts. And while motorcycles aren’t my speed, I know they work for plenty of gringx bartenders, and I love this whole different way to take in the stories of rural Mexico. Learn about Nick’s international motor rally in this bitchin’ hog of an episode of Agave Road Trip!

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Nick Barreiro of Mezcal Moto Rally.

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Vinepair, Wine Enthusiast, Esquire … seems like every publication these days has their suggestions for what you should have been drinking over the past year. Maybe what you should be purchasing as holiday gifts. But these lists can also serve as sales tools for gringx bartenders! It’s a DIY episode of Agave Road Trip!

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Linda Sullivan of Seynasecreto.
 

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There are often-repeated inaccuracies that cause the general public to greatly misunderstand Mezcal. I call them “mezcalarrhea.” You know, like Mezcal + diarrhea? Because it’s usually people talking out of their butt. And because it makes me laugh. It’s a hot-and-runny episode of Agave Road Trip featuring Dr. Steven Alvarez, professor at St. John’s University and Ismael Gomez of Laika Spirits and Cruz de Fuego Mezcal!

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Heather Morse traveled to Mexico City with her husband, Aaron. And her dog. And her cat. By car. From Las Vegas. If you’ve ever wanted cross the border in a car, with your pets, and make it back home with everything intact, this might be the episode you’ve been waiting for. 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Heather Morse of Create Joy Travel.

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When we talk about the future of mezcal, the conversation tends to revolve around our fears of agave extinction. But there’s so much more to speculate on! That’s what we do in this episode. What will production look like? How will it be delivered? And what are the delicious innovations we should expect? All this and more in the Mezcal 2099 episode of Agave Road Trip! 

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Sometimes the palenquerx who made your mezcal is the brand owner. But that’s rare. Even being a part-owner is rare. Usually the producer is a free agent. And sometimes they are asked to sign contracts with the brand that is sourcing their mezcal — sometimes those contracts require exclusivity. Is that okay? We do a deep dive into the fine print in this episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Place your bid for our Virtual Agave Road Trip at heritageradionetwork.org/auction

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“According to the Beverage Testing Institute of Chicago in Illinois, mezcal is the purest distillate or alcohol that exists on the planet and the noblest with the human body.” Or, at least, that’s the oft-repeated quote that comes up every several months and drives the folks at the Beverage Testing Institute crazy. So I’ve invited Andrew Moldenhauer, their Director, on to clear up the confusion. 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Andrew Moldenhauer of the Beverage Testing Institute.

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A couple weeks ago, I threw the Washington Post under the bus for failing to recognize that food journalism is — or should be — journalism. This week I throw myself under the bus for an article I wrote for InsideHook. Not because it fails as journalism — I’ll let someone else make that claim. But because I think it misses the most relevant point about the story of Tequila sales in the USA in 2023. And I attempt to rectify that here, in this mea culpa episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Back in May 2021, Chava and I recorded an episode titled “The Birth and Death of the CRM.” Alberto Esteban Marina, former Director General of the NOMs for the Mexican government, had provided us with court papers that documented the end of the CRM’s monopoly on certifying Mezcal. Now Alberto’s come back to me with two court decisions documenting the end of the CRT’s monopoly on certifying Tequila. What does that mean for Tequila producers? What does it mean for Tequila drinkers? And what does it mean for Khrys Maxwell, Director of Tequila and Agave Distillates at Museum of Distilled Spirits, who has agreed to put himself in the line of fire by recording this episode of Agave Road Trip with me? You’ll have to listen to find out!

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Some restaurants in the USA are serving what they call tacos, but they’re skipping the certification process, so … should they be allowed to call their tacos “tacos”? Or should they have to call them “tortilla-wrapped meals”? And if they also serve uncertified salsa, does that double-negative result in a positive? We speak to the CRT (Consejo Regulador del Taco) to try to better understand the dangers of uncertified tacos in this delicious episode of Agave Road Trip!

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This Mezcal brand replants agave in the wild, uses solar power, and only cooks with certified wood. They convert their bagaso into biodegradable planters. They are a model of best practices in the industry. And they just left the market because no one supported them. We question what you really care about in this episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Linda Sullivan of seynasecreto.

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Price certainly has to be a factor when considering which Mezcals you stock in your well. And flavor, of course. But what about the environmental impact? Here are six lower-priced Mezcals (and a Bacanora and a Sotol) that you can use for high-volume cocktails that won’t break the bank and don’t threaten the bio-diversity of Oaxaca. It’s a Punch-and-Judy episode of Agave Road Trip!

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We talk a lot about the 400 decisions that palenqueros make in the process of producing heritage agave spirits. That’s the result of using pre-industrial methods in fermentation and distillation … but also in that first stage of production when you cook the agave to convert the fructans into fermentable sugars. Maybe it seems like, okay, you cook it underground in a stone-lined earthen oven. But what kind of stones you use in that oven can have a serious impact on how your mezcal tastes, Join Agave Road Trip for a conversation about river rocks, mountain rocks, and volcanic rocks, and what they can mean to that spirit you’re drinking.

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Marissa is also a board member of Tequila That Cares, a philanthropic organization bringing positive change to the agave spirits industry!

If you missed World Poetry Day, it’s not too late to celebrate. Click here for the archived celebration with Agave Road Trip Poet Laureate Larry Beckett and August Gladstone!

Some numbers I culled from the DISCUS data over the past eight years:

If you just look at volume consumed, 2.7 billion liters in 2024

o   Vodka: 667 million liters (24.4%), trending down a point or two last three years

o   Cocktails (RTDs): 658 million (24.0%), trending up in a big way, double-digit growth every year

o   Whiskey: 647.5 million liters (23.7%), trending down four-ish percent past two years

o   Agave: 289.8 million liters (10.6%), trending up but growth is slowing

o   Rum: 186.1 million liters (6.8%), trending down in an escalating pattern

o   Cordials: 180.7 million liters (6.6%), trending down four-ish percent past two years, like whiskey

o   Brandy: 105.4 million liters (3.9%), big hits past three years

If you look at dollars spent, $36.2 billion in 2024

o   Vodka: $7.2 billion (19.9%), flat since 2021

o   Cocktails (RTDs): $3.3 billion (9.1%), trending up in a big way, double-digit growth every year

o   Whiskey: $11.9 billion (32.9%), trending down two to three percent past two years

o   Agave: $6.7 billion (18.5%), trending up but growth is slowing

o   Rum: $2.2 billion (6.1%), trending down in an escalating pattern

o   Cordials: $2.8 billion (7.7%), trending down but not at same pace as volume

o   Brandy: $2.1 billion (5.8%), big hits past three years

If you look at dollars spent per liter, bearing in mind that inflation between 2016 and 2024 was 30.7%,

o   Vodka: $10.83, up 11% since 2016

o   Cocktails (RTDs): $5.01, down 23% since 2016

o   Whiskey: $18.30, up 15% since 2016

o   Agave: $23.17, up 25% since 2016

o   Rum: $11.99, up 12.6% since 2016

o   Cordials: $15.54, 13.8% since 2016

o   Brandy: $20.24, 10.6% since 2016

You can get all the raw data and draw uyour own conclusions at DISCUS.

Shout out this episode to Steve Catbagan, Denver, and its groovy agave scene; Arik Torren and his Lot 001 Brands, and fog nets. And of Cambio Tequila!

Shout outs this episode to Cambio Tequila and Puesto! And Howard Gardner’s “Theory of Multiple Intelligences”!

For years I’ve heard that cacao and coffee are antioxidants, but I’m left wondering … what exactly does that mean? Are they healthy? Is there a limit to how much you should consume? Agave Road Trip’s Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Ryan Aycock, breaks it down in this free-radical episode of Agave Road Trip!

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John Douglass of the multi-award-winning Louisville bar Pretty Decent is renowned for his hospitality. But he got a bit hot under the collar when one of his favorite customers complained about a $30 chicken dinner at a fancy spot around the corner. We break that chicken down — and your free chips-and-salsa, too — in this under-priced episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest John Douglass of Pretty Decent, a mezcal-focused cocktail bar and a boutique plant shop in Louisville, Kentucky.

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It’s all in the eye of the beholder, I know. But when I think about what Tequila was back in the ‘80s and ‘90s … it was a catalyst for fun. I had a coworker who thought “tequila” was Spanish for “dancing on tables.” And I still see that, though mainly in Mexico. Here in the USA, it’s become so serious. Or maybe I just don’t go to the right places or hang out with the right people. But I’m left wondering … when did Tequila stop being fun? When did they add Tequila Académico to the Norma? We’re taking shots in this episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Linda Sullivan of seynasecreto and quotes from James Miller of El Bandido Yankee Tequila and Jaime Salas from Proximo Spirits.

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Your friend’s been to Oaxaca, came back with a plastic water bottle of a heritage agave spirit. The only label is your friend’s chicken-scrawl on a piece of green carpenter’s tape. And you love that bottle. So when you see a new mezcal come to market in a fancy bottle, you think, Well, that can’t be good. Or … can it? We talk packaging in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Some mezcal geeks use the term “cocktail mezcal” as an insult. But we know you love cocktails! So let’s talk about why those geeks are wrong and how to make a righteous mezcal that can be used in cocktails! This and more in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Photo Courtesy of Mezcal Amaras

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Chava says this is the first of a series of episodes where we take a close-up look at specific agaves. I'm not as confident that this works. But, hey, you tell us. It's a Choose Your Own Adventure episode of Agave Road Trip!

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It’s true: An uncertified agave spirit can kill you. But so can a certified Mezcal. Or a certified Tequila. So … what exactly is the point of certification? I had this … conversation? debate? battle? … with Sergio Garnier of Mezcal Ultramundo in another episode in March of this year. He felt like he had more to say and I feel like I could talk about this issue all day long. So here’s your sequel! (And, yes, the title is designed both to anger everyone who correctly indicate that there is no such thing as uncertified Mezcal as well as to increase search optimization.) It’s a leave-the-gun, take-the-cannoli episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Sergio Garnier of Mezcal Ultramundo.

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When people talk about mezcal and related agave spirits, they'll often lump in sotol. But it's not made from agave. But it is made in Mexico. But it's also now being made in Texas. And that's causing some waves. Is Texas messing with sotol? We skip through that minefield in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Did the small family producers in Tequila, Jalisco, eat the metaphorical and literal lunch of the big producers in Guanajuato and San Luis Potosi at the 1893 World’s Fair? It’s a What If? episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Linda Sullivan of seynasecreto, with supporting insights from Juan Pedro Valdés of Mezcal Villasuso.

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We give a nutshell explanation of how agave turns from sugar to alcohol and are joined on the occasion by maestro mezcalero Amando Alvarado Alvarez. We also talk about how growing agave helped a middle school in rural Oaxaca reduce violence in their community.

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Rosemary Smith of Black Snake Distillery in Australia asked us the question, “Does the unique taste of each agave spirit mainly come from its sugar source or the crushed fibers and juice?” So, of course, we fought over the answer! It’s a chicken-or-the-egg episode of Agave Road Trip!

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If you’re in Santiago Matatlan, Oaxaca, go drink pulque at Reina Cortes Cortes’s A&V La Casa del Pulque. Drink the pulque — all the pulque — but also check out Quiote de Maguey Escabeche from Mujeres 5 Estrellas!

Check out Lyanne’s article that inspired this episode: “Meet the Cactus Powering a New Generation of Latino-Owned Businesses,” Inc., September 16, 2024

Tia Lupita Foods offers a range of chips made from nopales!

Nemi Snacks has a line of nopale-based chips, too, but shaped more like Takis — but significantly healthier!

The movie Lyanne references is Flamin’ Hot!

Normally, Chava and I interview someone for an hour, pull a 90-second quote from that interview, then build an episode by bickering around that quote. But when Chef Rick Bayless agrees to an interview, you just run the whole thing! Although Chema Skandal’s outstanding episode cover suggests that Chef was bitten by a radioactive taco, we get into the real origins of how he went from a childhood in a barbecue restaurant in Oklahoma to building the family-run empire that is Frontera! (Hint: it involves charcoal, walnuts, pecans, and gas station mole!)

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Photo Courtesy of Chema Skandal!

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No question but that most people in the USA are introduced to Mezcal through cocktails. But most bartenders I know — most people I know, in fact — prefer drinking Mezcal neat. Drinking spirits neat, however, can be intimidating to that cocktail drinker. So what’s the gateway? We talk Mezcal flights in this 30,000-foot episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Shad Kvetko of Dallas’ beloved Las Almas Rotas! (And Dave Tyda of Phoenix’s beloved BARCOA jumps in with another great suggestion!)

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There’s a school of thought that suggests that aging mezcal in wood isn’t traditional, and that the changes imparted by the barrel distract from the flavors and aromas of the agave. And, sure, there are some communities where the mezcaleros would never age in anything other than glass for those exact reasons. But you don’t have to travel very far from those palenques to find villages where — for hundreds of years — they’ve been aging mezcal in wood. It’s a kick-in-the-pants episode of Agave Road Trip!

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If you hang around a certain crowd, they’ll tell you that mezcal needs to be at least 50% alcohol by volume to be true to the cultural heritage of the spirit. And while that is certainly true in some communities, Mexico is not homogenous. We geek out on some 28% ABV mezcal in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

HRN is home to transformative exchanges about food. Our 35+ member-supported food podcasts empower eaters to cultivate a radically better world. This month, we’re asking you to join us. Become a monthly sustaining member at heritageradionetwork.org/donate.

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Shout out to Lalo Angeles of Lalocura for his insights about the damage done to the palenqueros who mill agave by hand.

Shout out to Jake Lustig of Mina Real and Mezcal Don Amado for his efforts to reduce smoke in the lives of the people from whom he sources his spirits.

Shout out to Neta for supporting the healthcare of mezcalero Celso Garcia.

Shout out to Dark Matter Coffee and Maguey Melate for supporting healthcare costs for some families in need in rural Oaxaca.

Well, of course, there is coffee in Mexico. I’ve bought some at Whole Foods in the past. But my friends at Dark Matter — who want nothing more than to source coffee from Mexico — have run into nothing but trouble. So what can we learn from that? It’s a caffeinated, globetrotting episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. Lou Bank hosts this episode alongside Aaron Campos of Dark Matter Coffee.

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When I first started drinking Mezcal, I was told that there were some agaves that couldn’t be farmed — that could only grow wild. And I still here that narrative some two decades later. And it still doesn’t make sense to me. So I did the only logical thing: I asked a farmer.
Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Tracey Vowell of Three Sisters Garden.

Episode Notes

If you’re anywhere near Chicago or Kankakee, order your farm-fresh produce (and dry goods like locally grown popcorn, beans, and oats) from Three Sisters Garden!

Since I first met Sergio Garnier, before he launched Mezcal Ultramundo, we’ve debated about the relative merits of certifying your agave spirits as Mezcal. We decided it was time to record our disagreement. It’s a what-side-are-you-on episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Sergio Garnier of Mezcal Ultramundo.

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Is it just me or is activated charcoal suddenly in everything? We’re joined by our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Ryan Aycock (the Emergency Room Doctor Currently Known as Cocktail MD) to talk about what activated charcoal is, what it does, and how it can deactivate birth control when it’s included in cocktails. But also how it can turn your teeth black, which is sort of another kind of birth control. Just in time for the holidays, we give you a lump-of-coal episode of Agave Road Trip!

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There’s an idea that mezcal made with wild agave is more delicious, because the agave lived in a hostile environment. But in the world of pulque, there’s an idea that the most delicious batches of that fermented beverage come from pampered, farmed agave. We check in with Gonzalo Álvarez-Ríos (who we call Dr. Pulque) and Dr. Iván Saldaña Oyarzábal (who we all Sir) to better understand the why and how and what of it all in this 150th episode of Agave Road Trip!

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A Liquor.com article I read earlier this year highlighted the number of hospitality workers who grew up in radical churches. That made me think about how hospitality itself is a sort of religion – depending on how you define religion. So this is maybe, to you, a sacrilegious episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special co-host Linda Sullivan of seynasecreto.

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If you want to listen to that October 2023 episode with Khrys Maxwell, it’s “The CRT loses their Tequila monopoly.”

You might also want to check out this episode: “The Birth and Death of the CRM,” in which MIA Chava and I discuss the end of the CRM’s monopoly on Mezcal certification.

Mexico has been purchasing about $3 billion of corn annually from farmers in the USA, the vast majority of that corn having been grown from genetically modified seeds. The Mexican government announced in 2020 that it would, in 2025, ban that GMO corn from the country, which was found to be in violation of the USMCA agreement of 2018. So now, the Mexican government has amended their constitution to identify native corn as an "element of national identity," which will ban GMO corn from being planted in the country – and "[a]ny other use of genetically modified corn must be evaluated ... to be free of threats to the biosecurity, health and biocultural heritage of Mexico and its population." What exactly does this all mean, for farmers in Mexico, for the environment in the Americas, and for the price of tacos? We try to suss it all out in this episode of Agave Road trip!

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Dave Dyrek, retired farmer of Leaning Shed Farm, with quotes from Dr. Hector Ortiz of the Chicago Botanic Gardens and Chef Gustavo Romero of Oro by Nixta.

Episode Notes

When in Chicago, visit the Chicago Botanic Gardens! When in Minneapolis, grab a meal and a stack of tortillas at Oro by Nixta! When traveling back in time, head to the farmers market and visit Leaning Shed!

“US wins ruling in a trade dispute with Mexico over its bid to ban genetically modified corn,” AP News, December 20, 2024

“After trade dispute, Mexico officially bans the planting of GM corn,” Reuters, February 25, 2025

“Don’t mess with Mexico’s maíz: Constitutional amendment to ban GMO corn seeds,” Los Angeles Times, March 13, 2025

Gonzalo Alvarez is pursuing his master’s degree in pulque. Ivan Saldana has his doctorate in agave. Both tell me that farmed agave produces better pulque than wild agave. But on trips through Nuevo Leon, Cohuila, and Hidalgo, three pulque producers said the exact opposite. So … what’s the truth? They call me the Seeker, and I search low and high in this episode of Agave Road Trip! 

Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with insights from Aaron Campos of Dark Matter Coffee, fermentation revivalist and New York Times best-selling author Sandor Katz, and Michael Schallau of is/was brewing.

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Mezcal has been “having a moment” for at least fifteen years. The New York Times, Food & Wine, Thrillist … heck, even Better Homes & Gardens are writing breathlessly about “tequila’s smoky cousin.” But … how did that happen? When and why did mezcal become a *thing*? We reveal the secret origins of mezcal in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

Click here for more info on Lou and Chava's appearances at Tales of the Cocktail. 

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Episode Art by @chemaskandal

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A preachment, dear friends, you are about to receive, on Mayahuel, nicotine, and the temptations of maguey. I’ve heard that all sorts of things in the world of agave spirits are sacred and should be treated with respect. But that begs the question, what does it mean to respect something? Or, more importantly, what constitutes disrespect? We bat that concept around in this unholy episode of Agave Road Trip!

Photo Courtesy of CHema Skandal!

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In addition to our quoted friends at Cambio Tequila and Tequila Torrente, we also mention this episode Felipe Camarena of G4 Tequila and Greg Rutkowski of Finca 18 and 30 Topes Mixto de Agave, and Chava Periban of the podcast “Heritage Mezcal.” And Steve Dahl. And Dark Matter Coffee’s Star Lounge.

To learn more about the fascinating agricultural practices of Tequila Torrente, read “A Better Way to Grow Agave Leads to World’s First Certified Regenerative Tequila” in UnderstandingAg.

You’re amazed by how delicious mezcal is. It’s got your attention in a way that no other spirit does. And you think, Man, where was all this amazing stuff just five years ago? Well, it was there, in the rural Mexican communities where it’s made. And it still is. Want to know how to find it? Listen in to this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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When I tell people about my trips to Mexico, it's not uncommon for them to ask how dangerous it is. Chava and I debate the relative threats of Mexico in this not-approved-by-the-US-Department-of-State episode of Agave Road Trip!

Episode Art Courtesy of Jose Guadalupe Posada

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Check out Riker’s project, MadAgave, on the Web, on Instagram, and on Facebook — and consider making a financial gift. It will help support this important project and also help mitigate the damage done by the recent cyclone that hit the community.

In the episode cover, that’s head distiller Fomesoa, and the other crew members are Samba, Tsimireke, and Freddy.

The capon’d agave — the agave that is harvested after it’s begun reproduction, after its quiote has been cut, after it’s been left to develop and change in the field, healing its wound — is considered a special, beautiful, romantic source for making an especially delicious agave spirit. But not by maestro vinatero El Lobo de la Sierra in Los Jacales, Jalisco. Lobo breaks Chava’s heart by busting the capon myth in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Due to a hair malfunction, this week’s regularly scheduled episode of Agave Road Trip has been bumped to next week. So what will you do in the meantime? You'll have to listen to the shortest Agave Road Trip ever to find out!

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For thousands of years, we’ve been adding color to our world to make it more beautiful — and cocktails are no exception. But before you add that dye, consider the advice of our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Ryan Aycock — the Cocktail MD! He’s here to drain the color from your your face and your recipes in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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In 2020, 86% of all mezcal was classified as “artesenal.” Twelve percent was just straight-up “mezcal,” so … made in a more industrial way. And only 2% was classified as “ancestral.” So is “artesenal” as artisanal as the name suggests? And who knows what that word even means? Chava gets quizzed on the mezcal NOM in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Want easier access to beautiful spirits? Add your signature to ShipMySpirits.org!

Live in Illinois and want easier access to beautiful spirits? Send a letter to Deputy Governor Andy Manar!

Read the article that inspired this episode: “U.S. Craft Distilleries Are in Crisis,” Food & Wine, July 31, 2024

That quote from Peter Holland, rum expert and Foursquare Distillery’s UK brand ambassador, appeared in “Could independent bottlers transform rum?,” The Spirits Business, September 24, 2024

Haven’t heard about Empirical’s Doritos spirit? Click here!

In November 2021, we celebrated Thanksgiving in Mexico City! It was great fun, but we learned a lot of lessons on the way. If you  want to celebrate this traditional USA holiday south of the border, give this episode a listen and start making plans! It’s a fully stuffed episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Irish coffees, espresso martinis, carajillos, vodka and Red Bull … there are so many examples of drinks that combine caffeine with alcohol, with the theory that this will be the pick-me-up that helps you extend your best-night-ever. But do they work? We ask our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Ryan Aycock, otherwise known as the Cocktail MD … otherwise known as the guy who punctures holes in all of our best fantasies. We’re wide-awake drunks on this week’s episode of Agave Road Trip!

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One of the things you hear over and over is that pechuga – the mezcal made (often) by adding raw chicken (or turkey or venison or name-your-protein) – is a special spirit made for celebrations. But then you see novelty pechugas, made with bacon or al pastor. So what’s the truth about pechuga? It’s a chicken-or-the-egg episode of Agave Road Trip! The cover for this week’s episode is provided by Eisner Award-winning designer Mark Cox!

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Pulque is fleeting — it’s here, it’s gone. But does that mean it’s harder to make than mezcal? Chava and I duke it out over a subject neither of us can speak to — and bring in academic Gonzalo Álvarez-Ríos, who we call Dr. Pulque, to settle the matter. And we somehow land on the rare red pulque. It’s a full liter of an episode of Agave Road Trip!

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You went down to Mexico on some brand trip. But you managed to break away for a day and visit some independent agave spirits producers. You listened to our episode, “How Much Can I Bring Back?,” and now you have 120 liters of heaven that you want to share with all the angels who visit your bar. So ... can you? It’s the Law & Order episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Mallory O’Meara says you’re getting it wrong when you offer women fruity drinks. "It's the women who really are the ones who are so much closer to the process and usually so much better at being able to discern different flavors,” says the author of Girly Drinks: A World History of Women and Alcohol. Join us for a conversation about gendered drinking in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Photo Courtesy of Mallory O'Meara

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You’re an agave geek. You bleed pulque. The stuff that tastes like blue cheese and jalapeños? Costs $150 a bottle? You love it. But that’s not what you’re moving. So we talk about what is going to sell to those customers in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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I’m accustomed to people making hand gestures at me, whether in the USA or Mexico. And I’m generally able to understand those gestures in my home country. But just as I don’t understand the spoken language in Mexico, I’m a bit lost on these gestures, too. Luckily, on this specific Agave Road Trip, I have a couple of interpreters to help. Hands are flying in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Shout out this episode to Quiote Mezcaleria!

And when in Chicago go visit the desert house at the Chicago Botanic Garden. It’s as close to Mexico as anything 1,800 miles north of Mexico!

A lot of mezcal enthusiasts drink their mezcal from clay copitas. Hell, we drink our mezcal from clay copitas. And we think that’s the best vessel for heritage agave spirits. But is it? And is it culturally authentic? Maybe … if you’re talking hipster culture. This and more in the latest episode of Agave Road Trip!

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It’s pretty common, when we visit mezcaleros, that they’ll pull out a bottle and tell us it’s a special blend that serves as an aphrodisiac. Or Mexican Viagra. But … is that even possible? We ask Cocktail MD Ryan Aycock for the straight scoop, and somehow detour off into avocados and balut. It’s an eat-your-heart-out episode of Agave Road Trip!

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Shout outs this episode to Mezonte, Off Premise: Wine, Agave, Whiskey & Craft Beer, and Alambique Serrano Single-Origin Oaxacan Rum!

When I first started learning about heritage agave spirits, I misunderstood the labels that noted “puntas and colas.” I thought that meant that what was in the bottle was a blend of the heads and tails of a distillation — but in fact the heart of the distillation had been adjusted with the heads and tails. But, then … maybe I was wrong about being wrong? We look closely at the cuts in this episode of Agave Road Trip!

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I don’t recall in which online forum I saw it, but someone asked the question, "Why are so many mezcaleros named Don?" It made me laugh, but it’s funny because it illustrates one of the translation problems with agave spirits. We dive deep into that problem in this week's episode of Agave Road Trip!

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You’re headed to Mexico! Excited to drink agave spirits in their natural habitat! More excited to bring spirits home to share with friends! So … how much are you allowed to bring back?

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