Podcast XChateau Wine Podcast by Robert Vernick, Peter Yeung Episodes

Explore every episode of the podcast XChateau Wine Podcast

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	Title	Pub. Date	Duration
	Unpacking the cost of growing grapes w/ Natalie Collins, CAWG	23 Jul 2025	01:00:31
In an oversupplied market with rising costs, being a winegrape grower is probably the hardest it has ever been. Natalie Collins, President of the California Association of Winegrape Growers, breaks down the cost of winegrape growing in CA, the challenges in the marketplace, and the policy dynamics in the US, CA, and EU that continue to exacerbate the challenges for CA’s winegrape growers. Detailed Show Notes: CA Winegrape Growers - based in Sacramento, lobbies at the state and federal level CA has ~5,900 winegrape growers and 550k planted acres Key cost drivers of winegrape growing #1 labor, ~45-50% of budget (30-45% CA interior, 45-65% CA coast); doubled in the last 10 years, driven by: High min wage ($16.50; most pay $18-30/hr) → increases take entire pay curve up, not just bottom 2016 labor law change reducing hours before overtime pay → reduced farmworker take-home pay (OR provides an overtime tax credit to employers) #2 regulatory compliance (water, air, worker health, safety), ~10% budget Cal State SLO study on lettuce growers - compliance costs ~$1,600/acre (1,366% increase since 2006, 637% since 2022) #3 land - CA has some of the highest land prices in the US #4 crop protection/fertility tools Farming costs ~$4k/acre Central Valley, $6-8k/acre Paso Robles, $8-10k/acre Sonoma, ~$10-17k/acre Napa Grape pricing not rising w/ input costs - Central Valley ~$500-600/ton, Central Coast ~$1-2k/ton Bulk wine from Chile is cheap, and the US can’t compete on price The annual CA Winegrape Crush Report shows pricing for all varieties by district No US federal support vs EU EU subsidizes at every level (growing, marketing, production) >e2B/year in direct and local support, enabling cheap wine production Crisis distillation - buy surplus wine to convert to alcohol (e.g., hand sanitizer) Vineyard removal and vineyard planting subsidies Aggressive marketing support (France investing $5B to support wine exports to the US w/ new tariffs) US wines can have up to 25% foreign wine blended in and be labeled as US wine 2023-2024 - CA left ~300k tons/year on the vines; 2025 ~50% of vineyards don’t have a contract for the 2025 harvest; industry calling for another 50k acres to be removed (60k removed since 2022); all regions pulling out or mothballing/minimally farming vines Tariff impacts (May 2025)- input costs increase, but can be positive for CA winegrape growers 2019 tariffs saw domestic wine increase its share by 10% vs EU wines Canada is actively removing US wines from shelves in retaliation; the US exports 10% of its wines, 40% to Canada Deportations - creating fear, people are afraid to leave their homes for fear of their families getting separated Seasonal labor is not big, 90% vineyards are mechanically harvested; H2A temporary workers (mostly from Mexico, all-in cost ~$30/hr, often more productive, cannot be paid more than domestic workers) Economic impact of CA wine - 422k CA employees / 1.1M across US, $73B CA economic impact / $175B/year US All agriculture is struggling in CA, replacement crops for grapes not easy (some almonds, pistachios, cherries); costs ~$30-70k/acre to plant a vineyard Duty Drawback - a federal tax refund program meant to encourage exports If a winery exports wines, then imports them back, it gets 99% of import fees (including the Federal Excise Tax of $1.07/gallon) refunded If importing ~$3/gallon bulk wine, can save ~30% Mostly used by the top 5 wine companies 2024 - 38M gallons bulk imported (70M in 2022) vs ~70M gallons left on the vine in 2023 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Replicating the Farmer’s Eye w/ Kia Behnia & Mason Earles, Scout	11 Jul 2025	00:54:21
Having met at the UC Davis Wine Executive Program, Kia Behnia, CEO, and Mason Earles, CTO, founded Scout to replicate the best sensor in the vineyard, “the farmer’s eye.” Leveraging off-the-shelf hardware, Scout uses AI to process images taken from a tractor to automate vineyard mapping, vine counting, yield forecasting, virus identification, and more. From managing vineyard assets to implementing precision agriculture to improve quality, Scout is harnessing the power of AI to optimize vineyard management. Detailed Show Notes: Mason’s background - UC Davis Professor, Apple, AI & agriculture Kia’s background for Scout - owns the Neotempo wine brand, worked at Splunk, the “data for everything” company The official company name is Agricultural Scout, dba Scout, the website is agscout.ai, so it can be called any of those names Founded in 2022, initially more hardware-based, but pivoted to an intelligence company using off-the-shelf hardware The goal is to “replicate the farmer’s eye” with an AI-based solution using cameras, tractors, and Scout cloud and mobile app (which can be used offline); the brain is centered around a phone US only today (~50-100 clients, 300 blocks, 2M vines, processed 56M photos), going international in 2026 4 main use cases currently: Automate vine count, inventory, and mapping of vines - 4x faster than people could do Estimate crop performance - both vigor and fruit Yield forecasting - can use every step in the growing season to forecast yield with historical performance and weather forecasts Health performance and vine mapping - leveraging AI for virus detection 3 types of clients Estate wineries Vineyard management companies (“VMC”) Real estate investors or owners to track vineyards Benefits include: $400-1,200 savings/acre Productivity gains through managing more acres with fewer people, identifying low-performing vines, and the program tells farmers where to sample Remote monitoring of faraway vineyards Early season yield forecasting Disease management - virus can cause $170k/acre damage over 3-5 years, costs $40/PCR test, the goal is to keep virus <15% not to lose the whole block, has a 7,000 photo database on vine disease Bench Vineyards discovered 1 acre of missing vines out of 24 acres and filled them in Pricing is a subscription model, $150-180/acre per scan Volume discounts >50 acres Neighborhood and AVA discounts Starter - 2 scan package (for inventory and virus) Professional - 6 scan package Typical customer starts w/ 2 and upgrades to 6 Monarch promotion, customers get 1 free scan Up front hardware costs ~$3,000 New product in beta in July 2025 - ChatGPT Scout for vineyards Marketing mostly through word of mouth, industry trade shows, and webinars have been effective, as has partnership with Monarch (already tech enthusiasts) Barriers to purchase are often due to farming budgets built around labor Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	A Medical Record for Each Vine w/ Shawn DeMartino, Sentinel	05 Mar 2025	01:02:04
After struggling with tracking vineyard data firsthand, Shawn DeMartino, CEO and Founder of Sentinel, decided to create a solution with his partner. Enabling vine by vine mapping and data collection that could stand the test of time enables vineyard managers to increase the lifespan of a vineyard, manage viruses, and effectively create a “medical record” for each individual vine. Detailed Show Notes: Shawn’s background - winemaking, viticulture, now general management Sentinel was a Covid project that became real, software that collects individual vine information over time “Patient medical system of record for vines” The solution includes a mobile app, desktop platform, and high-accuracy GPS (receivers that clip onto phones) Maps all the vines in the field Configurable data collection forms Available in 5 countries currently Mapping the vineyard Create a 3D model with lat/long and elevation Basics (variety, clone), images, comments, discrete statuses (e.g., life stage, virus status) The vineyard mgmt team populates data, can walk up the vines and record Work with/ Sentinel to put in bulk metadata (e.g., block info, varietal) A client mapped 100 acres in 1 week Work order function E.g., irrigation can be recorded Roguing, planting, and grafted statuses can auto-update when the work order is completed Core benefits Extend the life of the vineyards Virus/disease management, see the program more clearly, identify asymptomatic vines in hot spots (case study: ~10% of vines asymptomatic) Optimize pick areas (through mapping flavor profiles) Pricing Mostly software, hardware costs small Annual subscription based on acres, not users (<1% of farming cost) Biggest growers ~$2k/year ROI example: client roguing 1% of vines/year w/ growing virus problem, Sentinel enabled them to get ahead of the problem in 1 year Marketing mostly organic search Articles and podcasts helped Last 18 mo, mostly word of mouth Referral program: The referrer gets a bottle of Krug Barriers to adoption Worries about time requirements; the goal is to collect data when already in the field Worries about less flexibility to manage vineyard; full customization of data enables more flexibility Next on the product roadmap - continue to flesh out more work order functionality Other tech Shawn is interested in Winery management platforms (e.g., Innovint) Soil moisture probes for irrigation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Montepulciano vs. Montepulciano w/ Max de Zarobe, Avignonesi	27 Apr 2022	00:48:45
Sharing a name causes confusion. Trademark and appellation laws are there to protect them. However, it can be harder to resolve when this confusion is within the same country. That’s the challenge Montepulciano (both the town and and the wine Vino Nobile di Montepulciano) faces against its bigger neighbor Montepulciano d’Abruzzo. Max de Zarobe of Avignonesi describes the history, challenges, and steps taken to clarify the names and the wines. If you’d like to support the show, please sign up on Patreon! Detailed Show Notes: Max’s background - in shipping, ended up in wine by mistake Avignonesi background Originally a noble family from Montepulciano Based in the SE part of Tuscany, close to Umbria Best known for Vin Santo Top 5 producers in the region (~175ha planted; ~100/~1,300ha of Vino Nobile) Vino Nobile di Montepulciano (“VN”) From the town of Montepulciano, Tuscany Historically controlled by Florence Min 70-80% Sangiovese, trend for all local varietals Three years to produce ~10M bottles annually ~3x the price of MA Named “Nobile” due to nobility consuming the wine in history - only two places in Italy were known for noble wine vs. wine for food, Barolo and Montepulciano Once famed as the best wine in Tuscany - it was imported by Thomas Jefferson to the US (~$250/year) Montepulciano d’Abruzzo (“MA”) From the province of Umbria (East Italy) It uses the Montepulciano grape variety One year to produce ~120M bottles annually Other naming confusions resolved by the EU: Champagne/Cava, Tokaji/Tocai, Prosecco/Glera. Internationall, cross border conflicts get good support from their governments Naming conflict a domestic dispute - VN did not get gov’t support as it is small (Montepulciano has ~18k people/~15k voters; Abruzzo is ~2.2M people/~2M voters) VN is challenged by the squeeze between Brunello (confusion w/ Montalcino, leads the American market due to investment of Banfi) and MA (shared name) VN promotion challenges & actions No one spoke English (even the President and GM of Consorzio do not speak English); Avignonesi has organized local English classes for children Consorzio tried to get support from politicians but unsuccessful As of last year, put “Vino di Toscana” on the label - limited impact as many don’t know Abruzzo is a province Want to highlight “Nobile” vs. full VN name Issue: can’t use an adjective to name a wine (EU law), “Nobile” is both an adjective and a noun; thus the full VN name was adopted Alliance Vinum, a band of 6 producers, uses “Nobile” by printing it on the “back” label, which is functionally the front label Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Low/No Alcohol Wines w/ BevZero's Debbie Novograd & Kayla Winter	20 Apr 2022	00:47:49
The low and no alcohol wine space is growing rapidly. Enough so that a company specializing in spinning cone technology to reduce alcohol, ConeTech, changed its name to BevZero. Debbie Novograd, CEO, and Kayla Winter, Director of Product Services & Winemaking, discuss the technology, the challenges of producing good no alcohol wine, and the market for low and no alcohol wines. Don’t forget to support the show on Patreon and get access to our backlog of great episodes and show notes! Detailed Show Notes: Alcohol reduction technologies Reverse Osmosis - pass wine through filters, removes water and alcohol, can only bring down abv by a few % per pass, requires multiple passes to get to 0% (more taken out of the wine) Spinning Cones - creates thin film vacuum distillation with heat added (37C) to extract alcohol w/o cooking wine, only spends a few seconds in still BevZero history Founded in 1991 as ConeTech as a tool in the winemaker’s toolbelt to adjust alcohol to hit a “sweet spot” Before 2018, >14% abv wines had a higher excise tax, alcohol reduction used to bring wines below 14% Spinning Cone technology Can pull off different substances with different molecular weights (more than alcohol if desired) Small units (1,000L/hour) start at $1.5M GoLo tech starts at $500-650k Definitions Low alcohol wine: 5.5-10% abv No alcohol wine: 0-0.5% abv Uses of technology by geography Europe - 99% for 0% abv products USA - until 2 years ago - 90% for alc adjustment, 10% for low/no alc USA - 2022 - 30% low/no alc -> 50% in 2023 Very large players doing adjustment No alc - mostly startups, recently, big players interested Market Sizing Non-alc space $2B in 2021 -> forecasts range from $3.5 - 6B over next 10 years IWSR projects no/low growing faster (7% CAGR) vs. alcohol (1% CAGR) Wine has been slower growth North America no alc wine market - $450M in 2021 Low alc mainly US (bigger than no alc) and Australia No alc beer - 75% of total space Producing no alc wine challenging Need suitable grape varieties for base wine - fruit-forward and aromatic work best Acid, color, tannin get concentrated Sparkling does well; bubbles mask the lack of weight (bubbles through forced carbonation) No alc is an FDA product - can add more ingredients (e.g., natural flavors, mouthfeel agents), must have a nutritional panel Initial no alc wines used bad base wine and added lots of sugar to compensate Many sweeten with grape juice concentrate, but trend is towards less sweet (now ~high 20g/L sugar) Price points Original products were $5-6/bottle, now up to $30/bottle Majority are in the $10-15/bottle range, largest customer does still & sparkling wine in the $25-30/bottle range Consumer use cases Main segment (70%) - people who still drink alcohol, drink both low and no alc wines Abstainers a small % Gen Z pushing growth Low alc targets lower calorie, lower carb segment Meets a ritualistic need that non-alc fills Branding and sales No alc startups sell DTC, leveraging social media marketing Low alc has some big players - 50/50 develop new brands, some use existing Specialty online retailers for low/no alc Higher quality products will drive future growth Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	WineTok w/ Amanda McCrossin aka SommVivant	13 Apr 2022	00:46:20
With the rapidly changing social media landscape, TikTok has started (as of late 2021, early 2022) to arrive as a place for wine lovers. Wine influencer Amanda McCrossin (somm_vivant) has gained momentum in this “wild west” and now has over 100k followers. She shares her journey, best practices, and what makes TikTok special. Detailed Show Notes: Former sommelier and wine director at Press Napa Valley, full background on Episode 12 Featured in SF Chronicle article about TikTok and wine (March 2022) 2 of Amanda’s videos converted well for wineries, 1st proof of ROI Duhig got 1,100 signups for their mailing list from a video Massican got $3,000 in sales and 70 list signups from 1 video Recent shifts that allowed Amanda to excel on TikTok Understanding TikTok is short form content vs dance videos (not social media) Time limit increases (15 sec -> 1min (summer 2021); 1 min -> 3 min (Fall 2021)) -> enabled ability to dig in deeper (can technically do 10 min videos) TikTok vs other platforms Can’t DM w/ people, need to be following them Conversations happen in comments Ability to go live Ability to reply w/ video in comments (“Duets” - do side by side w/ another’s content, Amanda did one w/ port tongs that has 2M views) IG reels (only 30 sec - 1 min) don’t have as much educational content, trends usually 3 weeks later than Tiktok IG feels older, more copycat, behind on trends Demographics - female leading Amanda’s - 75% female, 25% male US, Canada, Australia top regions Over 21 years old, deep into 30s and beyond, Over 50% of platform is over 30 years old Amanda’s TikTok journey Started July 2021 as an experiment Decanting video got 30k views, but stalled out Dec 2021 - started posting 2-3x/day, 1 video hit and others started snowballing Still “wild west” on TikTok for wine In 1 month went from 250 -> 30k followers (Jan 2022), now 110k followers (Mar 2022) TikTok best practices The “hook” is key - 1.5 seconds to catch people’s attention (e.g. - what you do, say, or put on the screen; Amanda puts topic of video on top) Spend 2 weeks - 1 month to watch and listen Post multiple times per day (Amanda now does 1/day) Need quickness in video Stay within a niche -> helps algorithm find the target audience Optimal video length - 2 mins for Amanda (was 7-9 sec on TikTok for a while) Need to react quickly to trends Restrictions on alcohol (a grey area) Similar to IG and FB, but enforced differently No alcohol w/ minors No excessive consumption No solicitation of alcohol Doesn’t drink on videos b/c got a disclaimer flag on one WineTok creators: winewithdavid, themillennialsomm, jaimeegriffwine, legallywined, lexiswinelist TikTok for wine brands Joe Wagner - 30k followers - mostly production videos Brands should respond in comments Need a presence so people can find them Establish relationships with creators first Social media tips for brands Don’t recycle content across platforms Tiktok - looks less polished vs YouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Boxing for the Environment w/ Jason Haas, Tablas Creek Vineyard	06 Apr 2022	00:34:31
Constantly looking to improve its environmental impact, Jason Haas, Second Generation Proprietor of Tablas Creek Vineyard in Paso Robles, recently released a trial of 3L bag-in-box wines at $95/box. Though this is 15% lower than the normal bottle price, it still represented ~3x the highest boxed wine in the market. However, the potential to lower the total carbon footprint of the wine by 40% led to trialing and a terrific reaction to the 300 box trial, which sold out in 4 hours. Jason explains the rationale, strategy, and process of going bag-in-box and for other alternative packaging. If you love the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon. Detailed Show Notes: The rationale for trying bag-in-box Did a self-assessment of the winery’s carbon footprint - on the Tablas Creek blog For the average CA winery, >50% of the carbon footprint is from the glass bottle (including transportation), as glass requires high temperatures to mold and has a heavy impact on shipping and transportation Tablas Creek moved to a lightweight bottle in ~2010, which saves ~10% of CO2 footprint; heavier bottles are ~10% more 3L bag-in-box reduces packaging carbon footprint by ~84% and ~40% of the total carbon footprint A wine blogger commented on Jason’s Facebook that Tablas Creek is well-positioned to create change w/ bag-in-box Previously topped out at ~$35 for 3L, or ~$7.50/bottle Tablas Creek bag-in-box trial Bottled 100 cases of Patelin de Tablas Rose, ~300 3L boxes Got ~60k views on a blog post on boxes in 2 days, lots of positive comments In mid-Feb 2022, released the boxes to the member email list and sold out in 4 hours Wines are currently under screw cap, meaning they are similar and don’t need adjustments to be in a bag-in-box Future bag-in-box efforts May extend to all 3 Patelin de Tablas bottlings (red, white, rose), which sell for $28/bottle retail, and other wines not meant for long aging Likely will not sell in distribution - an “uphill battle,” with the price point being too high vs. the existing market Bag-in-box ties to Tablas Creek’s mission - “to have a positive impact on the way grapes are grown, wine is made, and how wine is packaged and sold” Box pricing $28/bottle retail would be $112 for 4 bottles (1 box) Cost is less for packaging, which was passed along to customers Priced at $95/3L box, thought it was good to be under $100 Bag-in-box bottling & storage process Bottling boxes was the biggest challenge at a small scale Rented a semi-automated filler (would cost ~$10-12k to buy) Very labor-intensive, took 4 hours for 324 boxes There’s now a mobile bottling (boxing) line with bag-in-box capabilities based in Sonoma, may rent this for future boxings Not a lot of reliable data on how wine ages in boxes outside of 6-12 months, will be tasting and testing Bags in the boxes have higher oxygen transfer rates (“OTR”) than glass bottles Once opened, the boxes stay fresh for at least several weeks Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Crafting a Brand for Millennials w/ Ben Matthews, Terratorium Wines	30 Mar 2022	00:51:11
Combining a passion for wine with a background in marketing to Millennials from Proctor and Gamble, Ben Matthews launched Terratorium Wines. Building a brand for Millennials has led to creating target personas, packaging elements that lead to more transparency, and pricing to create a fine wine entry point. Hear about how Terratorium is creating brand alignment with its Millennial customers. Support the show on Patreon. Detailed Show Notes: Millennial purchase drivers Want straightforward, more “natural,” less manufactured products - concern for clean ingredients for products that are “in you,” “on you,” or “around you” Want alignment on brand values, it’s more than just economics Like transparency for the manufacturing process Not as price-sensitive as people think they are Want to support brands you’re proud to tell your friends about, which increases the word of mouth velocity, e.g., Tom’s Shoe’s “Buy 1, Give 1” Need the right price point (there’s a ceiling for Millennials) - ~$25-low $40s for a single vineyard, craft wine; the market entry point for fine wine Millennials are now 50% of parents, which is influencing buying practices, sustainability becoming more important Developed personas for their target consumers - “who is my who?” Came up with fictitious characters - “Jake” and “Meaghan” Average older millennial professionals Creates a brand lens for wine style, packaging, varietal selection, etc... Terratorium varietals Try to bring in not quite mainstream varieties Millennials like learning about things Packaging - P&G says it’s “the 1st moment of truth” - need to capture the eye Front label abstract graphic to visualize tasting notes, colors represent flavors that correlate to tasting icons on the back Back label Tasting icons on what the tastes of the wine are Regional / vineyard information (new) - more hooks to remember the region (e.g. - soil types, climate) QR code for the website - will be more targeted in the future The Instagram handle on the back label - try to drive more traffic In the future - will have ingredients, nutritional information on the website Winemaking for Millennials They like lower abv, fresher wines vs. heavier, oaky, more savory beverages Wine Clubs likely to remain a viable system w/ Millennials, like regular shipments, discounts, and some form of community Building awareness through marketing Active on social media - Instagram, Facebook, YouTube are the main channels for the older Millennials Partnerships with adjacent categories (e.g., nutritionists, health-conscious proponents) More in-person events in core markets - create more word of mouth presence, can’t replicate the in-person tasting experience Podcasts - saw some sales from the Inside Winemaking connection Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Regenerative, the Only Sustainable Farming w/ Jason Haas, Tablas Creek Vineyard	23 Mar 2022	00:44:29
Taking over from his father, 2nd generation proprietor of Tablas Creek Vineyard, Jason Haas left a career in technology to dig into the soils of Paso Robles. Spearheading the conversion to Biodynamic farming and now the certification of Regenerative Organic farming, Tablas Creek has pioneered not just the Rhone movement in California, but of Regenerative farming, which looks to take into account the farm’s impact on the soil, community, and region. Jason believes that Regenerative farming is the only truly sustainable way to farm. Listen in to Tablas Creek’s progression from organic to biodynamic to regenerative. Support XChateau via Patreon Detailed Show Notes: Tablas Creek Pioneer of the California Rhone movement Based on Paso Robles - because of the calcareous soils, long growing season, and enough rainfall to dry farm Founded and run by two families Robert Haas, Founder of importer Vineyard Brands Perrin Family, owners of Chateau Beaucastel in the Rhone All Rhone varieties, including rarer varietal wines Own 270 acres, 125 planted to vines Regenerative farming - similar to biodynamics, but thinks more about the externalities of agriculture Has commitments to less use of shared resources (e.g. - water, power) Has an additional focus on the big picture (e.g. - climate change with a metric to increase the carbon content of the soil) Biodynamics is process-based whereas regenerative farming is results-based Requires a series of audits - soil health audit, animal welfare certification (that they are treated humanely), farmworker audit (paying fair wages, increasing their skills -> led to weekly roundtable meetings) Focus on the positive impact on the soil, community, and region Does not have cow horns or the cycles of the moon like biodynamics Regenerative is an alternative to biodynamics that is more focused on science vs mystical processes Benefits of the various farming practices Conventional - cheapest in the short term Organic - in the long run, not more expensive than conventional. Organic certification in wine has been mostly for lower-end wines in the $10-15/bottle Biodynamics -Initially believed it would increase the lifetime of vines and gain in quality from older vines. Discovered that lots grown biodynamically were the best lots right away in blind tastings. Regenerative farming - Less about the grapes vs biodynamics, more in externalities Regenerative farming pilot program 6 Regenerative Organic certified wineries at the moment Got invited to the pilot w/o knowing what “regenerative” was or meant Can use the “Regenerative Organic” seal on their wines (vs just for the grapes) Costs of farming Biodynamic/regenerative - have more hands-on labor vs organic or conventional farming Less chemical purchases Cost on a $/ton basis for farming has not increased significantly vs organic (~$3-5,000/ton) Has not experienced yield reductions, the yield has been more dependent on water (e.g. - 2-2.5 tons per acre in a dry / frost year vs up to 3.5 tons per acre for a wetter year) Has been able to avoid significant labor issues by maintaining its own vineyard crew (10 FTEs, started w/ own crew in 1996), paying a living wage and good labor conditions have led to good recruitment and retention of crew workers Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Standing Out via AR and Celebrities w/ Ming Alterman, 19 Crimes	16 Mar 2022	00:45:12
Seemingly overnight, 19 Crimes, a division of Treasury Wine Estates, has become a Top 15 brand in the US and has a global impact. Re-imagining what a wine brand could be, 19 Crimes has had many innovations, but found lasting success with augmented reality and celebrity partnerships with Snoop Dogg and Martha Stewart. Ming Alterman, Brand Director for 19 Crimes, gives us the history, best practices, and keys to success for the brand and AR. If you love the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon. Detailed Show Notes: 19 Crimes Overview A Top 15 brand in the US according to Nielsen IRI, ~500k cases sold at $11.50/bottle average A virtual brand, no winery, no visible winemaker - disrupts what a wine brand can be - “The non-wine drinkers' wine” Americans often pick up a bottle because of the look and feel - developed the packaging and story to engage the consumer 1st black matte bottle, collectible corks with crimes on them, and augmented reality (AR Still need a wine that delivers for the price point and consumer first -> the wine quality creates repeat purchase Average consumer - 35-55 years old, wants to be a part of something and can relate to the story of the 19 Crimes Snoop Dogg's partnership has brought in 200k new consumers into wine from beer and spirits Augmented Reality App has over 5M downloads Started w/ both AR and virtual reality (VR) to tell the story of the brand In 2017 - people didn’t want to put on the headset (VR) in-store but were okay downloading the app and AR took off Created a 3d puppet of the person, animated it, and recorded lines AR came a few years after the brand launch, was supposed to be a sales tool, but morphed into a consumer thing Consumer awareness - QR code on bottle to download the app, invested in POS displays and in-store marketing, some screens in aisles People scanned and download the app while in the aisle Success factors - instant gratification, people shared it and it went viral, good shareability, great creativity, and simple Requires ongoing investment in the app - e.g. - built ability to record in-app Usage goes up during holidays (people like to share it) or the launch of a new SK Launching AR Easier now w/ web AR - can just do through camera phone vs needing an app Still have the Living Wine app Apple now recognizes QR codes with a camera, making it easier Getting cheaper, but still ~$80-200k to develop Ongoing costs - website updates, tech licenses (e.g. - AR engines), if there’s an app (easily 6 figures), creative updates Need a reason for people to come back and use it again Marketing 19 Crimes Got tons of earned media Paid for Google Playstore/Apple App Store to get app downloads PR efforts and social media Ads feature AR as the hook Success w/ celebrities Need them to be really passionate and involved Need marketing dollars to promote it, not just the celebrity deal ROI - for 19 Crimes, looked at the impact on the entire brand, not just the dedicated SKUs Compensation models - equity, royalties, up-front fees, annual fees Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Improving Wine Communication w/ Madeline Puckette, Wine Folly	09 Mar 2022	00:48:10
Using her background in graphic design and inability to read large blocks of text, Madeline Puckette, Co-Founder and Content Director of Wine Folly, has transformed wine communication using infographics and other writing methods to enable wine discovery for more people. What started as a content marketing strategy for a planned wine club, Wine Folly has become one of the core landing sites for wine globally and an essential resource for wine beginners in their wine journey. Here about the journey, the business, and the future with Global Wine Database. If you love the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon. Detailed Show Notes: Madeline’s background Grandfather got into wine through mail order and reading Dad bought a wine subscription to K&L Wine Merchants when she was 21 (in 2004) at art school, which got her into wine and provided her “Aha!” wine moment - a Cotes du Rhone that didn’t taste like fruit but like black olives She was a musician and a graphic designer After she lost her job in 2009, she helped out at a wine bar which exposed her to more wine Did the Ruinart Challenge competition in San Francisco and got runner up on a Chardonnay blind tasting Went on to pass Certified with the Court of Master Sommeliers (“CMS”) While in the startup community in Seattle, she wanted to combine web with a wine concept and started Wine Folly Wine Folly’s founding It didn’t want to have a blog The initial concept was to have an online wine club with videos exploring the wine regions of the world 12/25/2011 - 1st post on how to wrap a bottle of wine for Christmas Wine informational content started as a content marketing strategy to get high search engine optimization (“SEO”) but became what people wanted Wine Folly today An online portal for the topic of wine 1st infographic - “how to choose wine” - was a joke but went viral and the Facebook account grew by 7,000 in 1 day Printed and sold the infographic as posters - sold 52 in the 1st two days Uses an inverted pyramid writing style - articles start with the simple, straightforward answer and then grows with more details at the bottom Wine Folly users - the focus is on wine beginners - there are always more people getting into wine Marketing Wine Folly Viral things tend to peak and go down SEO “long tail” work - content marketing, posting 3 articles/week for years for free was what built the site Tried some paid marketing for products Social media - “like a billboard,” metrics are smaller than everything else (<10% of traffic to the website comes from social) but builds awareness Key metrics - reach and revenue are primary metrics / OKRs Defining reach can be complex - can include duration of visits, looking at a 2nd page, etc. ~20M unique visitors/year on the website Launching online classes - including a French wine course in March, uses a self-challenge model to force people to learn and figure things out Seeing a declining interest in wine - the “wine” search ranking has been declining over the last 5 years YouTube channel Has been growing rapidly recently (~60k followers in Jan 2022) Need consistency of content to do well - 1 piece/week would be ideal Wine is challenging on YouTube to create a digestible format because wine is just in your glass. It’s all in your head -> success might be more about personality Other successful wine channels - Wine King, Bon Appetit w/ Andre Mack YouTube is a place to self-learn Social media strategy Need to have content that matches the purpose of the social media channel Wine Folly does a lot of analysis on what does well or not Consistency is the core strategy Business model Launched a wine club in 2021 in partnership with Wine Access “Like a Food52 of wine” - wine accessories (e.g., tools, maps, wine flavor charts, visual learning tools) No advertising, but investigating it now, looking at partnership/sponsorship opportunities Tools and book section are the most successful, courses coming up fast Books 1st was in 2015, 2nd in 2018 More a marketing opportunity to get credibility Sales primarily field by people on Wine Folly’s email list Not great financially 2nd book - wants to be the guide to use to pass CMS Certified Sold on website packaged with a Wine 101 course to compete w/ Amazon, which sells the book cheaper Merger with Global Wine Database (2019) The quality of the information in the wine industry is bad GWD is an initiative to get all wines and wineries to put their product information into the database There are free and pro subscriptions Have created region guides and trade guides to explore wine regions with the data Producers can create tech sheets with the product Future applications - API for retailers, recommendation engine by taste Synergies with Wine Folly - to provide better data to create better products, Wine Folly adds content structure over the database Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Telling Stories w/ Jason Wise, SOMM TV	02 Mar 2022	00:56:33
With an outsider's perspective, Jason Wise, director of the SOMM movies and founder of SOMM TV, has been able to find stories in the world of wine that interest a broad audience. In order to control more of the content pipeline and how the shows are distributed, Jason founded SOMM TV. Using "Somm" as more of a curator, SOMM TV has wine at its core and covers food, travel, and other alcohol, making it appealing to a broad (and younger) audience. Learn more about the business of wine films in this episode of XChateau! If you love the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon. Detailed Show Notes: Jason's background Former bartender, went to film school, started as a filmmaker He got into wine because he loves history, there were lots of stories that he could make films about, and his (now) wife's father loves wine, and he wanted to impress him He did a travel show and learned about wine SOMM movie (2012) The genesis of the movie Made when he was fresh out of film school (where he didn't focus on documentaries) Met Brian McClintic, who asked him to watch their tasting practice Found the practice similar to a sporting event Met Ian Cauble and found his determination to become a Master Sommelier The success of the film The obsessive personalities made the film Builds to an actual event (the MS exam) The wine industry was ready for something like the movie Not a "wine film," a different way of looking at wine Introduced a new group of people who can tell you what to drink (vs. magazines) Documentaries became popular with Netflix Not made by wine people, the outsider perspective made it enjoyable to outsiders Wine needs storytelling Other wine films SOMM 2 - a" "wine fil"", SOMM 3 - the" "bullshit facto"" of wine, SOMM 4 - more history driven Auction 288 (to be released June 2022) - a movie about a bottle of 1874 Perrier-Jouët Champagne, more of a history, business story Media business model Movies usually have a distributor Theaters are a big marketing arena for wine iTunes - make a % of revenue Netflix pays distributor a fixed fee, if put on the 1st page can reach millions of people Often pays based on what it costs to make Can own rights outright or rent the film Amazon - get paid 6+ months after it's up and receive a minimal cut of incremental revenue YouTube - doesn't make any money on Created SommTV to control more steps in the business model - more control of content pipeline, partnerships, place to premiere new films (e.g., SOMM 4) Before Covid - events were a big part of the business Media platforms Hulu - Jason's favorite, takes the most significant swings in content Stars - has the best movies Netflix - very careful, content is very similar to each other; often licenses something then makes their own version if it works (e.g., Uncorked is a similar series to Somm) Cost of making films Big range - SOMM 2 ~$100k vs. ~$850k for another wine film made by someone else Documentaries - can be millions, when there's real music, at least $500k Do not pay people usually to be in the film SommTV business model Employees on salary, which is unusual in film 90% original content It started with originals, now trying to license other content Focused on wine, food, and alcohol; food is going to be a big part Started the streaming service because it's an underserved audience and wanted to super-serve them Content pipeline - would ideally love to have new content every day Hundreds of thousands of subscribers (as of Jan 2022) - believes the potential audience is in the millions" "Som" is defined by Jason as someone who curates - wine at the center, but food, travel, etc…surrounding it Pricing - $6/month, $50/year Did a series of testing to determine pricing Current entertainment content wars - other services are losing money to add subscribers (except for HBO Max) Lower cost doesn't necessarily mean more subscribers Technology - a mix of own developed and 3rd party apps, goal is to bring technology in-house SommTV subscribers Younger, usually 24-37 years old (~70%), middle class Screenings/events - more varied audience 52% male, 48% female - women growing fast Key markets - US largest by far, UK, Brazil, Nordic countries (not allowed in Iran or China) Sparklers - new cooking and wine pairing show It covers various sparkling wine regions with cooking challenges It has a "perfect bite" - a meal on one spoon Contestants have to judge each other No one would have predicted the ending - the final episode aired Feb 8, 2022 Podcasts part of SommTV didn't have a marketing budget, so made podcasts which drawback to SommTV Guests feed into each other's shows Not expensive to make Free, don't have to subscribe Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Crafting Wines for Consumers w/ Nicholas Hammeken, Hammeken Cellars	16 Feb 2022	00:42:42
Having studied what was important to wine consumers working at Oddbins, a British wine retailer, Nicholas Hammeken, Founder and Director of Innovation at Hammeken Cellars, founded a company focused on crafting Spanish wines that match consumer preferences. He develops concepts with unique selling propositions, plays to modern tastes, and tries to be an ambassador of affordable luxury. Nicholas tells us all about how he thinks through creating the concept, developing the product, and bringing the wines to market globally. If you love the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon. Detailed Show Notes: Nicholas’ background Danish-born, cellar master, worked at Taste of Wine in Denmark Worked in the Mosel (Germany), Burgundy, Bordeaux, and Penedes (Cava, Spain) Worked at Oddbins in the UK - where he learned about consumer preferences Fell in love w/ Spain and moved there when his wife got a job there Hammeken Cellar Overview Spanish wine in the 1990’s - a little rustic, but could taste the tremendous potential Motto - “modern Spanish wines…developed through an understanding of consumers needs” -> want to respect the history of the region, but take data to match to consumer preferences Based in Valencia Winemakers live in different parts of Spain Exports 1.5M cases to 30 countries Historically strong in Scandinavia Germany and Holland are big markets, US and Canada are important, while Asia has been consistent with Japan being strong for many years China rising as wine consumption growing (vs. gifting of wine) In 2021 - 50% of production are organic wines, sustainability is an important trend for Hammeken Consumer preferences by market Europe - like a more lean style US - prefers riper, more bold style Often the style preferences match with the profile of local cuisine Wines have a base element and then have components to fine-tune the wines for specific markets Organic trend N Europe was the driving force, particularly the monopoly markets, which gave distribution preference for organic wines US/Europe now more aligned with regulations on organic wines Whole Foods was a pioneer in the US Brand development process E.g., “I’m Your Organic” brand Had nice juice to make an approachable wine made the tannins softer to create a very juicy style of wine Could make it cost $10-12 Need to communicate a message to consumers to create a competitive edge -> every bottle (or bag in a box) sold, they will plant a tree Leverages Global Data to mine macro and micro consumer trends (e.g., organic product trend) Used to support decision making Does other consumer research - “lots of reading” - real all magazines, including grocery store magazines Importance of the story -> need to have a purpose of the product, more USPs (unique selling propositions) -> e.g., where does the product come from (i.e., sense of place, which gives traceability), winemaker, etc. -> something apart from a pretty label Wants to be an ambassador of affordable luxury, $9.99 or $11.99 wines that taste and feel like $14.99 wines Packaging - requires a lot of trial and error to test The more exclusive products tend to look more straightforward and more elegant Scale buying power allows for lower costs for high-end closures, packaging E.g. - Mirada Rose from La Mancha Defined specific fruit flavors - berry citrus Want a “Provence” like color Uses extended time on lees It has a unique bottle Uses repeat buying to measure success - Mirada is seeing steady increases year over year in sales Wines mostly have a DO/DOC designation - they need to taste like the region, but in a modern way Finding new names - “a major headache” - legal names for the US, Europe, and Asia has become a lot more complex than ten years ago Creating the wine The company is asset-light, leverage other people’s facilities Go for a more modern, fresh style of wine Once they have a clear idea of what they want to do, they search for vineyards Try to source from a diverse set of vineyards to reduce nature risk (e.g., hail) Old vines are key -> gives a more unique expression, more balanced fruit Have their own winemakers, but rent facilities Vineyard sourcing a mix of long-term rentals, short term agreements, and spot market purchases at harvest Have a contract agronomist to direct grape growing Go-to-market (“GTM”) Strategy Link up with partners, people who want to be first movers on the product Often have a dialogue in place before developing new concepts Target markets For new concepts - test in smaller markets For clear ideas - go for 3-5 markets to have volume from the beginning Keys for product placements Monopoly markets - can lobby for 2-3 years to provoke a tender that you’ve helped define (therefore more likely to wine) 3rd party endorsement is important (e.g., critic ratings) Critic ratings big in US / Canada initially, but rest of the world has followed -> important because some buyers are risk-averse Asia - likes to see success in other markets first Marketing & Promotion Social media is important Need to invest for products on the shelves More important channels - product placement (the right place at the right price point), then a mix of endorsement with points and price proposition (e.g., discounts) can drive more significant sales E.g., LCBO (largest buyer in the world) - showed them a gap in their portfolio (mix of packaging, style, and price point) and was willing to invest in promotions to be successful Wine critic influence American media (e.g., Wine Enthusiast, Robert Parker, Wine Spectator, James Suckling) strong in US / Canada, but also have a global influence Decanter - more important outside the US Jancis Robinson - w/ 20 point score, need $25+ bottles for consumers to understand what this means Brand lifecycle Most brands are regional stars, a few work worldwide Lifecycle is usually 3-5 years Product segments get overcrowded and make the brand lose market share Signal of downtrend - when the effectiveness of promotion falls Corporate Social Responsibility Try to allow consumers to make an active choice, e.g., I’m Your Organic and planting a tree Uses Goodwings to offset the carbon footprint of corporate travel Wants to do a detailed mapping of CO2 footprint of product production and use this as a tool to educate wine buyers Hosted on Acast. 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	High Altitude Luxury w/ Anita Correas & Gustavo Hormann, Kaiken	19 Feb 2025	00:44:46
With the recent launch of a new $300 retail icon wine, Boulder, Kaiken continues to explore the potential for luxury wines from Argentina. Building on the last 15 years of Kaiken's other icon wine, Mai, Anita Correas, Commercial Director, and Gustavo Hormann, Director of Winemaking, discuss the global market for luxury Argentinian wines, how they approach launching them, and the brand-building impacts for the Kaiken brand. Detailed Show Notes: Kaiken background Founded in 2002 by Aurelio Montes (Chile) "Kaiken" is the name of a wild goose that crosses between Chile & Argentina Exports to 60 countries Winery in Vistalba, Mendoza (28ha), vineyards in Agrelo (60ha) & Los Chacayes, Uco Valley (150ha) 60% on-premise Frances Mallmann restaurant at the winery Recently launched new luxury tier/icon wine - "Boulder" $300 retail price, 3,700 bottles Developed over the last 10 years Unique 3ha block in Los Chacayes due to overflow of Arroyo Grande, full of big rocks/boulders Malbec (64%), Cabernet Franc (28%), Petit Verdot (8%) Boulder launch plan Launched in Buenos Aires, Hong Kong, Korea, Brazil (São Paulo, Argentina's #2 export country), US Brazil's event had a more direct impact on sales Mostly press/trade events that are smaller, in-person Likely less on-premise than Kaiken overall, more hand-selling to collectors and Michelin Star restaurants VR w/ Google Glass to see the vineyard up close and go inside the soil has gotten positive feedback, but it is more expensive than a regular video (required 3 days of video shoots and a special camera) Mai - prior icon wine $100 retail price, 12,000 bottles Launched in 2009 from a 120-year-old vineyard Marketing more "maintenance" now 2021 - redesigned packaging, got 98 pts and Top 100 from Suckling Primarily sold in Argentina, then UK, US, Brazil, Japan 70% of Argentinean wine is consumed domestically, delaying the need for exports Average export ~40% higher price than Chile (export-focused market, ½ the population, 2x wine production vs Argentina) More high-end wineries in Argentina vs ~5 in Chile >$100 market for Argentine wine - "not a huge market" Big domestic market - much of Mai, Boulder sold domestically Consumers looking at super high-end often do not look at the country of origin but more at the concept of the wine Value Prop for Argentine luxury wine - not influenced by oceans, high altitude, dessert wines, driven by the Andes Return on Boulder is more than sales, but brand building for Kaiken Focused on relationships with importers Want long-term relationships as they represent the brand globally Reach collectors through import partners Has affiliated importer in Argentina Montes relationship Was helpful on launch to piggyback on Montes brand Now Kaiken is more independent and only shares importers in a few countries (it used to have the same ones) Kaiken Ultra ($26) awarded Wine Spectator Top 100 (#30, highest Argentine wine) Wine drinkers can graduate from Ultra to Mai and others Kaiken's focus for each range of wines is to over-deliver for the price point vs linking the wines Good press in 2024 for Kaiken - #1 New World Winery from Sommelier Awards, Boulder rated best Argentinian red blend by Patricio Tapai (wine critic), Estate Malbec was Wine Spectator's best value wine Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Library Release - Defining Natural Wine	09 Feb 2022	00:21:04
An ongoing trend and a topic that crisscrossed many of our interviews on XChateau, the natural wine movement got a formal designation in March of 2020. It specifies a set of vineyard and winery practices to qualify for the designation. We discuss the potential challenges of implementing the designation and the potential impacts on producers, retailers, and consumers. This episode originally aired in May of 2020. To access the rest of our library, become a Patreon supporter, as we’ll soon be making most back episodes only available to our Patreon supporters. Detailed Show Notes: New definition and denomination for natural Wine in France - Vin Methode Nature (March 2020) Requirements: organically farmed, hand-harvested, indigenous yeast, no inputs added, no manipulations to the wine (e.g., - thermovinification, reverse osmosis, flash pasteurization, cross-flow filtration) Two levels of designation based on SO2 additions - 1 with no SO2 added, 1 with up to 30 mg/L of SO2 added Before this, there was no formal definition for “natural wine” people often confused or used the term for organic and biodynamic farming or with using minimal intervention Natural wine trend Rise of natural wine bars, restaurants lists focused on natural wines, and natural wine stores/sections of retail stores Entire natural wine fairs - e.g. - e.g. - RAW WINE Specific books - e.g., Natural Wine by Isabelle Legeron MW Challenges of the natural wine designation It may be difficult to make adjustments in farming or in the winery when issues occur, which may be increasing with climate change Hand harvesting may be challenging and even lower quality in regions with labor shortages (e.g., Australia, New Zealand) Champagne - does not use native yeast for secondary fermentation in bottle and may not qualify Burgundy - often doesn’t get organic certifications in vineyards due to weather challenges but strive for “lutte raisonnée” (the reasoned struggle)to reduce chemical inputs in the vineyard US importers - to be labeled as “organic wine” in the US requires no added sulfur, which applies to only 1 of the 2 designations. Wines without sulfur additions may have stability issues when they shipped to the US Natural wine retailers - consumers may find the designation confusing as some of their wines will be labeled “natural wine,” but others will not, requiring detailed knowledge of the winegrowing practices of all the wines on the shelf Consumer perceptions Product quality is critical, especially at the higher end Studies have shown people will be ~$3/bottle more for organic wine, which is a ~30% increase on ~$8/bottle average price point Consumers assume fine wines are a natural product and may find the labeling confusing Vegans - egg whites and isinglass (a type of fish bladder) are sometimes used as processing aids for wines (a process called fining) but are not ingredients - may find the designation useful Kosher WineWine - can not be labeled natural as flash pasteurization is not allowed Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Making Wine Approachable w/ Mark Warren & Tom Beaton, FitVine	02 Feb 2022	00:53:03
Wondering why there was only beer and spirits but no wine at Crossfit events and races, Mark Warren and Tom Beaton, Founders of FitVine, decided to start their own brand. With a goal of making wine more transparent and approachable, FitVine aims to “fit into your lifestyle.” At the $15-20/bottle price point, FitVine is bringing more Gen X and Millennials into the wine category with wine that tastes good and takes away the stuffy image of the wine industry. If you love the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon. Detailed Show Notes: Mark and Tom’s background Met ~20 years ago, both in the tech industry and entrepreneurs They have always been into wine Both former athletes got into Crossfit 2 decades ago at events. They saw spirits and beer but no wine and asked, “why isn’t wine part of an active lifestyle?” FitVine’s founding At $15/bottle - many wines are overprocessed Target a “healthy” lifestyle, and the word “fit” means how does wine fit into your lifestyle? Want to have a positive impact on people’s lives - relieve stress Market segment Initially thought they were targeting the athletes, but quickly learned it was the significant others at the races & events, the “aspirational group” that wanted to make better choices that were FitVine’s customers Gen X “yoga mom/dad,” Millennials M/F both increasing DTC business has customers from early ’20s to late ’70s The segment is ~85-100M Americans FitVine vs. “Clean Wine” - try to be careful and not knock other wines Focused on 90% of the wine market and what people are drinking with an average ~$15/bottle price point Trying to establish a “go-to” brand people can trust and remove confusion for people without wine knowledge Marketing Targeting the average consumer who’s not wine knowledgeable and intimidated by wine Trying to be more transparent and make it easier for the consumer Have nutritional breakdown for all wines Publishes calories, carbohydrates, sugar, alcohol TTB stopped their ability to add more nutritional information (e.g., resveratrol, etc.) because it might show it as a healthy product Does full lab tasting on all wines and have done competitor lab testing as well - sometimes show summary statistics (e.g., 90% less sugar than the Top 10 wines on the market) They took tasting notes away not to confuse the average consumer Start with the wine first, then discuss the positive attributes of the wines Wine often marketed as too “stuffy,” makes it intimidating Want to change the approach, a higher level of YellowTail - which was easy and popular in the $5-8/bottle category At $15-20, more of an investment, wine needs to be good Primary differentiation is transparency - there are no more faces to the big brands/wine companies, the last one was Jess Jackson Want to be very approachable - no beige chateau or river on the label Products Low in sugar but “full” alcohol People want the alcohol in wine Alcohol also impacts the taste of wine - de-alc’d wine often tastes “thin” Low in tannins and histamines Tannins can be added, but none for FitVine High tannins are not suitable for non-seasoned wine drinkers looking for approachable wine No flavor additives (e.g., Mega Purple) or other additives “Triple Filtering” of wine - uses crossflow filtration that passes through 3 times (standard crossflow process) Wines are not bulk wines, controlled from grape to bottle Mostly Lodi fruit, sustainably raised with no pesticides Production 2021 - ~425k cases 2022 - ~600k cases Go-to-market strategy Started DTC only Started with social media Went anywhere, people would let them pour wine (e.g., yoga studios, gyms, etc.) Gave out samples and postcards to drive to the website 2021 - still did >5,000 events Went consumer first vs. pushing through distributors - Whole Foods called in 2016 - brought into retail in 2017 (started w/ 4-5 stores, then spread across the US) 2022 - will be in 25,000 locations in the US, ~35,000 in 2023 Now focused on grocery stores and delivery (e.g., Instacart, Drizly, GoPuff) Strong repeat buying DTC offers limited-run varietals, which allows the testing of new SKUs before distribution DTC has stayed level (now <10% of business), wholesale has seen significant growth 2017 - had a contract with the Boston Red Sox, created single-serve 187ml glass Did well, but with a multi-layered business model, was not the best use of marketing investment Wine industry trends to watch The Low or No alcohol wine category is challenging Need a different approach to educate consumers Give people more transparency around what’s in the bottle Give people more information in small, easy to understand chunks Growth of canned wine - believes due to being more approachable Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	The Cleanliness of Clean Wine w/ Erik Segelbaum, SOMLYAY	26 Jan 2022	00:45:31
Ever been curious about the claims people make about “clean wines”? In the same camp as “natural wines” and “better for you wines,” clean wines have no definition and often deploy misleading marketing to get you to buy their wines. They take advantage of the trend, particularly with Millenials, around a healthy lifestyle and spread misinformation in their marketing, according to sommelier and wine educator Erik Segelbaum. Explore the rationale behind the clean wine trend and how to read into their marketing messages on this episode of XChateau! Don’t forget - you can support the show on Patreon to help us keep bringing you excellent wine business content! Detailed Show Notes: Erik’s background Was a chef in fine dining at the Park Hyatt Philadelphia As he grew into wine, he stopped drinking for alcohol and more for flavor He became a sommelier because it was more profitable than being a chef SOMLYAY (Erik’s company) Does private events, education (including with the Smithsonian), a wine writer, private cellar consulting, and hospitality/wine list consulting Has done >300 private events in the past year, primarily virtual Wrote an article called “Snake Oil for Sale: The Dirty Business of Clean Wine” (pg16) for the Sept / Oct 2021 issue of The Tasting Panel magazine The impetus for the article - Erik always gets the same questions during consumer events around sulfites, natural/clean/healthy/“better for you” wines He gets lots of ads using manipulative advertising around the wines Definition of Clean Wine It’s an invented word. There is no definition, no standards - it doesn’t actually mean anything Implies other wines are “unclean” Drivers of the clean wine trend Millennials have taken over as the dominant wine buying cohort. They like “healthy,” and the trend is playing to their preferences Celebrity endorsements backing trend (e.g., Cameron Diaz’s Avaline) Clean wine claims are not false but spreading misinformation and are “lying by omission” E.g., all wines are gluten-free Vegan - sometimes animal products (e.g., egg whites) are used in fining but not really put into wine Organic - does not mean any chemicals, just no synthetic chemicals (e.g., sulfites are organic and a good thing - required to make wine otherwise, nature turns grape juice into vinegar) Additives - there can be bad ones (e.g., Velcorin, which is hazardous in large quantities, and Mega Purple, which adds color and sweetness) Need to distinguish between “industrially produced wines” and “commercially produced” Industrial wines are mainly on the bottom shelf of retail and are highly manipulated wines (e.g., use lots of additives) Commercially produced can be well-produced wines, even at a commercial scale Clean wine “obscures transparency” They often manipulate where the wines are produced (e.g., don’t mention where the grapes are grown, only that they are produced and bottled in a specific place) Targets naive consumers An excellent example of transparency - Ridge Vineyards - has ingredient labeling and all relevant details on the label Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Selection and Differentiation in Grocery Wine w/ Curtis Mann MW, Albertson’s	19 Jan 2022	00:34:44
Grocery stores are one of the biggest sales channels for wine. Curtis Mann, Group Vice President of Alcohol of the Albertson’s Companies, gives us the inside scoop on buying trends, how to sell into Albertson’s, and the rise of the use of digital. Learn about the dynamics of the grocery wine market and what makes Albertson’s “locally great, nationally strong.” Don’t forget - you can support the show on Patreon to help us keep bringing you great wine business content! Detailed Show Notes: Curtis’ background MBA at UC Davis in Wine Marketing and Accounting Marketing at Trinchero Family Estates Worked in wine retail at a small place Moved to IRI in category management in wine and spirits insights Was Raley’s wine buyer for 8 years Grocery as part of the wine market Multi-outlet wine market ~$12-13B / year Total wine market ~$60-70B / year (multi-outlet ~20% of the total market) Albertson’s Companies’ wine overview ~25 different grocery brands, ~2,000 stores Wine is a key element of business - it drives sales and customer loyalty; some customers come to stores because of the wine selection Some stores have up to 3,000 wine SKUs Stores with more premium selections are correlated with location (high socio-economic demographics) vs. by grocery store brand Focus is more on the “premium” price segment ($9+ based on IRI) Top brands - Barefoot, Kendall Jackson, up-and-coming brands - Butter, Josh, but wine is very diversified. Big brands are still a small part of the market Premiumization helping imports, including New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc Wine buying trends Consumers are called to authenticity - they want to know what’s in their wine, the appellation, sustainability, and organic Convenience - cans, seltzer, ready to drink Premiumization - $10-20/bottle, $30-50/bottle, up to $100/bottle (e.g., high-end Bordeaux, Napa Cabernet) ranges all doing well, some categories accelerating with potential out-of-stocks Covid trends - return to cooking, consumers go to Albertson’s as a one-stop-shop With restaurants reopening, a little bit of regression in sales, but still robust as cooking at home has been sticky Customer demographics (for wine) Gen X / Baby Boomers - still buying a lot (more in bulk and volume), but less than before Millennials are the new customers - buying more, less loyal to wine vs. other drinks, and have less expendable income; their preferences are different from Gen X and Baby Boomers To meet the changing demographics, Curtis looks forward 3-5 years to develop his shelf set/selections of wine Considerable diversity of reasons people buy wine - occasion based purchasing (e.g., going to a party) Many people exploring and learning about wine (proof point - the massive increase in people taking WSET classes, including lots of consumers, not just professionals) Promotions / discounting Limited brand loyalty in wine, customers often default to price Given that, promotions are pretty important We need to work between price and product to optimize sales and not over-rely on price Wine selection What does it mean to customers? Each wine must have a purpose vs. the other ~1,500 SKUs on the shelf This could be style, story, or location/appellation Want to remove redundancy on the shelf Tagline - ‘locally great, nationally strong’; try to give local stores more voice (e.g., Portland stores have more Willamette Valley Pinot Noirs) Flagship Stores (e.g., Andronico’s, Pavilions) - higher-end, eclectic offerings Steps to sell into Alberston’s - have the 4 P’s put together - distribution network, pricing, product, and where you fit on the shelf Generally need to place wine 4-6 months in advance It requires a UPC code on the bottle Private Label / “Own Brand” wines The goal is to provide the best price to value for customers The intent is to drive loyalty Not a dominant part of the business Trying to create wines that are a draw and get good scores Selection is built around education, desire to learn about wine category through own brands Suppliers have connections to maintain supply, which can help Own Brands overcome supply challenges (e.g., 2020 Napa, 2021 New Zealand) Digital Adoption Virtual tastings - have done well, 1,000s of people sign up, people buy the wines beforehand or buy wines later and watch the tasting on YouTube Appeals to groups of customers who don’t get to visit wine country Will continue post-Covid Do education tastings 1x/month Keys to engagement - consumers have lots of questions The team engages with customers via chat Keep it educational - need a balance of explaining concepts but keep it understandable Consumers using their phones more for education want to reduce the complexity of wine Wine e-commerce - working on expanding this, challenging due to state regulations Expanding drive up and go (“DOAG”) Delivery (e.g. - Instacart) growing Still a small portion of sales Core elements of success for the grocery channel The selection keeps people in the store Relating the wine to the food in the store (food - wine pairing) E-commerce Convenience (e.g., ready to drinks) Hosted on Acast. 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	Democratizing Wine Retail w/ Jeffrey Shaw & Jeff Hardy, Underground Cellar	12 Jan 2022	00:52:23
With a vision to democratize wine for every wine drinker in the US, Underground Cellar’s founder and CEO Jeffrey Shaw and COO Jeff Hardy are focused on building a unique and disruptive platform for buying wine. Leveraging gamification principles, Underground Cellar gives you upgrades to the wines you buy, giving customers access to more expensive and rare wines. This has expanded into free wine storage in their Cloud Cellar, which they hope to build more community and a trading platform around. Dig into how it got started, the value proposition for wineries, and where they are going in this episode of XChateau! Underground Cellar offers listeners a discount code for $100 off your first purchase of $150 or more with promo code: XChateau at undergroundcellar.com. Like what you hear? If you’d like to support us in bringing you the best content on the wine business, become a patron at Patreon. Detailed Show Notes: Jeffrey Shaw’s background Fell in love with wine in college, wine tasting, etc. Had a small exit with his first company and wanted to do something in wine Started 6 companies simultaneously (based on a statistic that 5 out of 6 companies fail in the 1st year) to find 1 to focus on, dropped the rest after 90 days except for Underground Cellar The goal is to “democratize” the wine experience and convert wine drinkers to wine collectors for life Jeff Hardy’s background Tech background, worked at Google and Yahoo!, building smaller startups focused on small and medium-sized businesses Underground Cellar’s model Curate wines into collections (e.g., Napa Valley Cabernet) People don’t buy specific bottles, but into a collection with different price point wines 50% or more of the bottles you buy are upgraded to more expensive bottles Collections can include rare wines (e.g., a Heidi Barrett signed bottle of Screaming Eagle) Cloud Cellar - everyone can store up to 500 bottles for free Upgrade determination an algorithm helps determine the number of upgrades Focus on lifetime value received as a customer Goal to “democratize” wine Three elements of wine that can be democratized - knowledge, money, and relationships/access Underground Cellar tries to educate in easy to understand, more approachable ways Upgrading allows customers to experience higher levels of wine Ability to source some scarce, valuable, and hard to find wines enables access to these wines Target market = everyone Wine aficionados - enticed by the rare wines available (e.g., the signed bottle of Screaming Eagle) New wine drinkers - want great value, like the process of being upgraded Wine lovers building collections - want variety for their collections, which is inherent in the collections Supplier benefits Wines are never discounted Underground Cellar can buy small lots of wine Can buy less popular varietals, etc. Promotes the brand and story on social media (~12k followers on Instagram) and email (~250,000 email subscribers) => wineries have said that foot traffic and sales spike after being featured Cloud Cellar Get unlimited duration storage for 500 bottles for free Let’s people buy wine when they usually couldn’t due to weather/shipping constraints or for space/storage constraints 85% of customers use Cloud Cellar, most storing ~1 case - most customers use it to buy wine at any time Future: people can start to trade with one another on the platform Marketing channels Use social media, direct mail, radio #1 channel has been direct referrals - people like to share their upgrade stories Offers a “Give $50, get $50” referral program Future: the potential to add wine as a reward in Cloud Cellar, similar to Robinhood referrals where you get one share of stock Barbara Corcoran is an investor Initially approached Mark Cuban via email, but he doesn’t invest in alcohol Approached Barbara afterward to prove Mark Cuban wrong Technology platform Built from scratch in-house The new upgrade model was not supported by other platforms Needed to de-couple wine buying from wine-shipping 60 employees currently, including data scientists and business insights analysts Future for Underground Cellar With 84M people in the US as wine drinkers, lots of room to grow Want to get the experience out there to more people The goal is to make the experience fun and exciting Want to build community within Underground Cellar and turn people into collectors Promo Code for listeners: $100 off your 1st purchase of $150 or more Promo Code: XChateau Go to www.undergroundcellar.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Wine Consulting Turned Retail w/ Thatcher Baker-Briggs, Thatcher’s Wine Consulting	05 Jan 2022	00:44:51
Sommelier turned wine consultant turned online wine retailer. Thatcher Baker-Briggs, Founder of Thatcher’s Wine Consulting, has continued to evolve and expand his presence, helping clients drink better and navigate some of the intricacies of Burgundy and other fine and geeky wines. He tells us about his journey, how email responsiveness is a competitive advantage, and how he believes some of the distribution allocations of top European wineries need to adapt to where the demand is. An engaging and insightful episode of XChateau! Don’t forget - you can support the show on Patreon to help us keep bringing you excellent wine business content! Detailed Show Notes: Thatcher’s background He started cooking at 10, worked in restaurants, was in the kitchen for ten years Pursued sommelier route, spent time in Japan, came back to SF to work w/ Saison Hospitality Helped collectors to manage the world of Burgundy and expanded from there Launched a small, online boutique website pre-Covid Has both an importer and retailer license (possible in California) Import focus is on 1st and 2nd generation winemakers, often younger (in their 20s and 30s) Wine Consulting It started when a regular guest at the restaurant asked for personal wine consulting He had to rely on other retailers, which was challenging for some short turnaround needs, and built a small inventory of products, which got put online for the retail arm Clients are on an annual retainer basis - annual necessary to set goals for the cellar and wine education Initial clients came from personal relationships New clients are mostly through existing client referral You don’t need a lot of clients to be successful and cap the client base so that each client can get enough attention He doesn’t source exclusively from TWC retail but from a variety of sources Challenges with wine consulting business - dealing with an old school wine world, inventory management, logistics of getting wine, and communicating “no” to collectors can be challenging Wine Retail Differentiation - wines highly curated by the team Ability to source wines due to decades of experience and relationships with importers and retailers from sommelier experiences Sourcing rare wine is complex, as often wines can’t be fully authenticated - TWC usually takes a very conservative approach, e.g., buys DRC only with a Wilson Daniels back label and from an original buyer Essential to work with importers who are investing in building wine brands General importer margin - cost converted to local currency, 1.5x the cost plus a couple dollars/bottle for transportation Some importers take too high margins on hard to find wines, which leads TWC to need to source directly from Europe TWC doesn’t undercut the market not to upset other wine merchants European wine distribution is often flawed and challenging, creating market dislocations E.g., Raveneau - has low ex-domaine pricing, the wine immediately sells out, the family makes a great living, and doesn’t require work, but may have more wine in Switzerland than in the US where it sells for multiples higher Wineries often are small businesses without a lot of people working there Nicolas Faure example - sells so cheaply ex-domaine that people buy everything upon release, primarily other retailers buying to resell for much higher levels Technology Has a team of developers Uses Zoho (CRM) and Shopify (E-commerce) Custom-built integration between Shopify and Zoho The aim is to make the website faster, more efficient, have correct pricing, amongst other space He believes there is a lack of core technology in the wine space, currently dominated by Wine-Searcher and CellarTracker Wine Pricing Believes Burgundy is a bubble, but it can’t burst due to lack of supply (particularly with short 2019, 2020, and 2021 vintages) Prices are so high they are pricing out drinkers Links to Thatcher Instagram Thatcher’s Wine Consulting Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Adaptation: 2021, a Year of Re-Opening, Wine Pricing, and Clean & Natural Wine	23 Dec 2021	01:05:52
2021. A year with big expectations. The re-opening of economies around the world with Covid vaccines in distributions instead led to fits and starts with the Delta and Omicron variants. Wine pricing and costs went through gyrations with the tariffs between the EU and US imposed and then lifted and supply chain disruptions creating both cost and availability issues. And clean and natural wines continued to become a broader topic amongst wine consumers and the trade who struggle with their definitions and impact. XChateau assembled a panel across the wine value chain (Producer - Diana Snowden Seysses of Snowden Vineyard and Domaine Dujac; Importer - Xavier Barlier of MMD; Distributor - Michael Papaleo of Banville Wine Merchants; Retailer - Kyle Meyer of The Wine Exchange; and Lisa Perrotti-Brown MW of The Wine Advocate) to discuss these issues and answer audience questions live on Clubhouse. A wide-ranging and captivating conversation! Also, people have asked us how they can support the show. So, we recently launched on Patreon, where your contributions will help keep the wine business content flowing! Detailed Show Notes: Panelists: Producer perspective - Diana Snowden Seysses, winemaker at Snowden Vineyards in Napa & Domaine Dujac in Burgundy Importer perspective, Xavier Barlier, SVP of Marketing & Communications for Maison Marques & Domaines USA, the importation arm of Champagne Louis Roederer and related companies Distributor perspective - Michael Papaleo, VP of Sales at Banville Wine Merchants, an importer and distributor focused on the New York, New Jersey, and Mid-Atlantic region Retailer perspective - Kyle Meyer, Managing Partner of The Wine Exchange, a leader wine retailer in Orange County, California Wine Critic / Reviewer perspective - Lisa Perrotti-Brown MW, Editor-in-Chief of Robert Parker’s The Wine Advocate for the last 13 years Topic: Re-opening from Covid Diana - producers in Napa and France weren’t required to close. Their biggest concern was keeping employees safe Mike - learned how to conduct non-in-person sales (online and on the phone) by creating compelling content and using humor to find ways to engage accounts Luxury wines did well - the average case price pre-pandemic was $136/case; increased by $30/case On-premise recovered, but not all the way - 2019 - 55% on-premise, 2020 - 27% on-premise, 2021 - 44% on-premise Collectors who were drinking through their wines started re-filling their cellars Banville Wine Merchants was able to expand through the crisis (headcount went from 12 salespeople in 2020 to 16 in 2021, with 21 expected in 2022) Kyle - 2020 Q2/3 - online orders went up dramatically - people bought everything 2020 Q4 - needed more inventory, supply chain issues created lack of access that persisted into 2021 A lot of people are now comfortable buying wine online, do to a big pick up business 75% of sales online pre-Covid, now 85-90% 2021 felt more normal, like 2018 (2019 had issues w/ tariffs, etc.) Xavier - MMD’s luxury portfolio was positioned mainly towards on-premise Pivoted to off-premise (e.g., high-end Safeway stores in Los Angeles) Champagne shortages in 2021 - Roederer is sold out, pricing of Champagne is higher than it was before, bubbly is more popular than ever Lisa - The Wine Advocate piggybacked on the success of online wine sales -> web views were up 10x vs. pre-Covid, subscriptions showed strong growth, but not as much as web views Events had to be canceled in 2020, tastings re-factored, including re-packaging wines into little bottles for tastings Pulled off some events (e.g., Kings of Rhone, Bordeaux 2010) End of 2021 - lots of Zoom fatigue, people want in-person events, but push for smaller events (e.g., masterclasses, dinners) to avoid large groups Hope to keep some virtual events in the future w/ hybrid elements Xavier - used to have to travel a lot before, pivoting to virtual staff training in the B2B context in 2021 was more efficient and convenient Topic: Inflation / Wine Pricing Kyle - some prices have gone up, but more steady than expected CA prices are going up because of the light 2020 vintage (fires) Bordeaux 2020 releases prices much higher Burgundy - pretty steady pricing with slight increases Germany - top producers are increasing prices as they were underpriced before Xavier - w/ tariffs and increased shipping costs, MMD has tried to absorb the impact with their partners - sharing ⅓ producer/supplier, ⅓ importer/MMD, and ⅓ distributor Mike - bought long on some products pre-tariffs, which helped through the first half of 2021 Did reduce some margins and tried not to pass on increased costs to customers Some allocated Burgundy had to pass on cost increases Lisa - people looked more at domestic wines than usual, specifically 2018 and 2019 Napa wines, primarily because of 2020 fires and short vintage Bordeaux 2020 is a lot higher pricing than 2019, even with a less consistent vintage Diana - had supply chain issues pre-Covid, including a glass shortage (as only river sand can be used, not desert sand) Have learned to order early to deal w/ shortages (e.g., glass, labels, capsules) Facing labor shortages globally Wineries have absorbed increased costs of glass and corks Topic: Clean & Natural Wines Lisa - there is no definition of clean wine. It’s just a marketing fabrication Natural wine is a misleading term as well. It means different things to different people Kyle - no one has asked for clean wine yet Customer curiosity around natural wine, but people believe they are faulty wines (e.g., mercaptans, Brettanomyces) Wine merchants need to educate consumers around these topics Xavier - positive part of this trend is that it creates a conversation around wine Diana - need to educate consumers around sustainability. It’s positive that people are worried about the climate and sustainability. If there’s no definition of the term, it becomes greenwashing Audience Questions: Matthew - how do you best educate, communicate organic sources, and implement sustainable practices without greenwashing? Lisa - be very honest about what you’re doing Kyle - make them “a” point vs. “the” point, the wine should be “the” point, make the best wine you can Ziad - how is the wine sector coping with climate change? Lisa - need to live w/ extreme events (e.g., wildfires, water shortages) more frequently, all over the world Xavier - Piemonte & Champagne have benefitted from climate change, and some have adapted winemaking; e.g., Louis Roederer has evolved their Brut Premier multi-vintage wine to “Collection 242,” a new multi-vintage wine that will have a unique number and release each year as the wine is now based around a single vintage Diana - there are two conversations - one on adaptation and one on decelerating climate change through GHG emission reductions Adaptation - France has to deal with frost issues, especially in Burgundy, Napa has drought and heat Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Becoming a Wine Retail Institution w/ Phil Bernstein, MacArthur Beverages	15 Dec 2021	00:40:35
An early mover focusing on fine wine, Bordeaux and California futures, and becoming a dual importer/retailer, Addy Bassin’s MacArthur Beverages has become a wine institution in Washington DC. Phil Bernstein, General Manager of the brick & mortar wine retail store and importer, tells us about how he thinks about wine pricing, direct importing wines, the changes in consumer buying patterns, and more as we continue to delve into the future of wine retail. Detailed Show Notes: Phil’s background He grew up in Long Island, played Trumpet, and pursued a career as a professional trumpet player He ended up begging for a part-time job at a retail shop in Ann Arbor, MI, and got his start in wine Saw a job at Calvert Woodley in DC on winejobs.com and moved to DC He moved to Macarthur Beverages so he could become a wine buyer and became GM in April 2018 Macarthur Beverages history An institution in DC, in the Palisades suburbs Founded in 1957 by Addy Bassin and his wife, Ruth One of the 1st to offer Bordeaux En Primeur He was notable for bidding on one of the Jefferson wine bottles They had a focus on fine wine from an early stage Both a national shop (because of fine wine focus) and a neighborhood store Pre-pandemic - 50% online / 50% in-store; today - 70% online, 30% in-store Used to have tastings every Sat in-store to drive foot traffic People now do curbside pick up after ordering online Does a lot of DC area delivery (can only legally deliver in DC, not nearby suburbs in MD or VA) Physical store for wine retail - “nothing beats the human interaction” Pricing for wine retail - “price is everything” Believes that price often trumps customer loyalty Looks at wine-searcher.com when pricing wine, having the best price on wine-searcher meaningfully drives sales Used to do a standard markup with a case discount, but believes now having the best price upfront is key “Reliability” for MacArthurs is good customer service Take care of the wine (temp control, only ship when weather is good) Never makes vintage substitutions Always makes good on promises, even if they end up losing money on the sale Both an importer and a retailer Only possibly in DC and CA in the US Can buy Bordeaux direct from negociants Have access to more fine wine from overseas Can cut out the middle man - improving profitability and reducing the price to the customer Finding their wines to direct import - have exclusivity, mostly locally Imports 6-7 full 50ft containers a year Not allowed to sell to other distributors or retailers ~60% of business from wholesalers, ~40% imported Believes more importers will sell direct over time Bordeaux Futures/En Primeur The value of it can vary a lot by campaign The only way for it to work is for wines expected to either be sold out or at higher prices when the wines are released for customers to tie up their money In most years, En Primeur only works for the top 50-75 wines, which doesn’t make sense for most Petit Chateau 2019 campaign - Bordelais knew people couldn’t taste during En Primeur due to Covid, Pontet Canet and Angelus came out early with low prices and set the tone - lots of interest and buying 2020 campaign - “somewhat of a dud,” Bordelais took prices back up to between 2018 and 2019 levels California Futures Starting to go away from this model In the early 1980s (pre-internet), set up barrel tasting of CA wine producers, people could taste the wines and order futures at a discount E.g., Randy Dunn, Ridge, Shafer were some producers Robert Parker came and did a private tasting after the event It has since been taken over by the internet, mailing lists, and wines have wider distribution Now more of a social event, less about selling wine Customer demographics Largest revenue from males 45-54 Growing population according to Google Analytics - females 35-44, more younger buyers tend to be female Buying habits changing The old model - buy by the case (based on points and price) The new model (as wine prices have gone up and selection has increased) - lots of 1-2 bottle buying, trying things from all over the place Points are less important Restaurants are a way for consumers to explore new types of wine Bourbon is a very hot category Communications Email is still the #1 way to sell wine Social media - doing more, can highlight boutique items, good for promoting local events (tastings, wine dinners) YouTube - did some video tastings for customers - got excellent feedback Working with a digital marketing company Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Driving Personalization in Wine Retail w/ Addie Wallace, Wine.com	08 Dec 2021	00:41:44
As the largest wine e-commerce site globally, Wine.com has been a leader in leveraging technology to sell wine. Addie Wallace, Director of Brand Marketing, gives us insight into how wine.com leverages the marketing funnel to drive awareness and conversion, has built a differentiated offering online, and is pushing the boundaries of customization with their new personalized wine club Picked. There’s a lot to learn about the future of retail in this episode of XChateau! Detailed Show Notes: Addie’s background She started her career in finance In business school, led the Wine & Cuisine Society and created a wine recommendation app Completed her WSET Level 3 Pitched Wine.com an idea to have a personalized wine club, which she launched Manages brand, customer insights, and subscription businesses for Wine.com Wine.com’s history It started as evineyard.com in 1998 Acquired wine.com URL and brand in 2001 when original wine.com went bankrupt Key milestones The most extensive assortment of wine in the world, over 17,000 wines vs. ~2-3,000 in a typical wine store Live chat functionality w/ sommeliers (started 6-7 years ago, one of the first to use the functionality) - replaces people in aisles helping you in a wine store Building out physical presence - serves 42 states and DC, can reach 80% of customers in 2 days Working on personalization $355M in revenue in Fiscal Year 2021 E-commerce trends Believes e-comm growth will continue, but not at the same pace in the pandemic Pandemic showed people they could shop for wine online (built awareness) 2016 study - showed e-comm only ~3% of alcohol shopping Wine.com core differentiators Variety / selection - leads to continual discovery Live chat - people are not commissioned, only there to help you find the best wines Convenience - including StewardShip for free delivery Personalization - with Picked, the personalized wine club, and building more personalization into the website Marketing channels Uses different channels for different parts of the marketing funnel Top - get people to know the brand Middle - get people familiar with how the brand is differentiated Bottom - use promotions to get people to convert Wine.com does a lot of digital advertising - social media, affiliate marketing, search, Google shopping Each channel is effective for different customer needs E.g., - Google Shopping - good for when customers are looking for something specific Podcasts - for educating people that they can buy wine online and get them to shop at wine.com Search/Google Shopping - has the largest # of eyeballs High ROI - direct mail, the non-digital marketing Wine.com does Discounting / coupons - help with getting customers to convert, promotions need to be structured to attract the right audience Social media - has been challenging, changing regulatory landscape, privacy restrictions, and constantly changing algorithm, as well as lots of competitors using it makes it hard to be winning at it and need to evolve continually Some marketing channels are hard to measure results - e.g., - print media (can use QR codes or promo codes to help track) New channels - spending more time on podcasts, new social platforms (e.g.,- Snap, TikTok) don’t currently allow alcohol ads StewardShip Program It started as a free shipping program, for an annual fee (currently $59/year) It gets consumers to shop more frequently Becoming more comprehensive, like Amazon Prime, more perks to feed the wine lifestyle e.g., - free tickets to events, both in-person and virtual (gave away 100 free tickets to James Suckling tasting events, 1:1 virtual tasting with the Gaja family) Special promotions and early access to some wines ~60% of revenue is from members Drives high retention rate for members The annual fee pays for itself if you buy 2 cases/year ~$40/case, ~$30/6 bottles to ship normally Picked - personalized wine club Launched in 2020 Tell them wine preferences, get matched with a personal sommelier Select 6 wines every 1-3 months No two customers get the same thing Leverage tech to make sommelier selections more manageable and more diverse, but lots of human judgement The sommelier writes a personal note for the wines One sommelier could theoretically support thousands of Picked customers Club differentiation Personal element Selection - a lot of new discoveries Only sell “real” wines, no private labels Level of control/customization - price points, frequency, feedback, amount of red vs. white Some overlap w/ StewardShip but primarily targets different segments StewardShip - more self serve customers Picked - people who want more help in selecting Other wine.com personalization initiatives Making the largest wine store curated just for you Elevate recommendations and put them in context Use prior purchase data, ratings, and if a wine was added to the shopping cart User ratings StewardShip members rate more frequently Send emails to encourage ratings Wine.com App - users more likely to rate Picked members provide ratings to help personal somms Leveraging technology to elevate the wine retail experience Recommendation engines, email programs Wine.com App - the store and wine encyclopedia in your pocket Virtual tastings Wine.com is likely never to go brick & mortar Would limit the selection available Would limit personalization of experience Hosted on Acast. 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	Selling Rare Wine w/ Dave Parker, Benchmark Wine Group	01 Dec 2021	00:37:27
Beginning a series on the Future of Retail, we chat with Dave Parker, CEO of Benchmark Wine Group, on how he segments the retail wine market, the unique issues of rare wine, and emerging trends in the space. Listen in to learn about what regions are selling well, the importance of email marketing, a mobile-first mindset, and many other topics that will shape wine retail for the coming decade. 2021 Year-End Episode Live on Clubhouse - Mark your calendars for December 9th at 12 pm Pacific time! Detailed Show Notes: Dave’s background Was in high tech, bought a vineyard to be in the wine business originally 1998 - started Brentwood Wine Company in Oregon, the internet’s 1st online auction house (had challenges as Oregon requires ownership of product before auctioning it) 2002 -He started Benchmark Wine Group in California - CA allows someone to hold both retail and wholesale licenses Wine Retail Landscape Popular Wines - sold in grocery stores, consumers want something to have with dinner Fine Wine - mostly current releases sold, buyers knowledge of wine and have brand loyalty Rare Wine (where Benchmark specializes) is not generally available, either back vintages of fine wine or ultra scarce products sold only to allocation lists. The wines need to be able to age and often cost $100+/bottle. Collectors and investors have deep knowledge of the wines, understand how they appreciate in value, and how well they age, but are also concerned about condition and authenticity Rare Wine Trends Used to be classified Bordeaux dominated the market Burgundy has emerged and appreciated in value Champagne has also solidified its spot During US-EU wine tariffs on many EU wines (25%) - Champagne and Italy increased in demand (did not have tariffs) Rhone and Spanish wines emerging over time Largest rare wine markets in the US CA and Tri-State area (NY, NJ, CT) FL, TX, and IL are also large Collectors in every state in the country Sustainability becoming an essential topic across all consumer categories Benchmark Wine Group - focuses on the rare wine market Largest selection of rare wines, ~13,000 wines with ~100,000 bottles at any given time (~70-80% of wines come from private collections) Provenance Guarantee - meticulous on how wines are inspected, and Benchmark handles all the transportation Have on-staff sommeliers and salespeople to work with clients Margins look more like a distributor than a retailer - have to take more risk around the ability to sell the wines and more specialized labor for inspection Can ship to 45 states - transactions take place in CA, buyer technically ships wines to themselves Benchmark vs. auction houses Benchmark advantages - price certainty, immediate payment, prices often on the high end of auction prices Auction disadvantages - no guarantee of sale, sale and payment could take months Rare wine pricing Also owns the Wine Market Journal - expert source for auction information, data from 1986, provides a baseline for selling price Tracks sales from some large retailers Wine-Searcher shows asking prices vs. selling prices Technology & wine retail Emerging trends - leveraging AI for label scanning and wine recommendations In-person tastings to come back but still have virtual and hybrid experiences Benchmark does “Raid Your Cellar” - where a sommelier talks to a winemaker NYC Wine Spectator’s Wine Experience in 2021 - hybrid event - Masterclass instructors were sometimes in person, sometimes remote Email marketing Will continue to be the most efficient and effective More than one email/day from a retailer can be overwhelming Benchmark does some email segmentation to reduce “spam” Segment by region - e.g., only get emails for Bordeaux, Burgundy, etc. Segment by wine age - e.g., only last 20 years of wines, not older vintages Rare wine collectors older (mostly Gen X, Baby Boomers) - still prefer email Some younger customers (Millennials) prefer instant messaging, text Use of mobile is more important than native apps (don’t provide that much more functionality vs. mobile designed websites) Vivino - sits in-between retailer and consumer, creates a 4th or 5th tier Wine Scores Critical the higher up the price curve you go - provides a guide for consumers Adds credibility to producers Affirmation for a particular wine for a specific vintage Consumer reviews (e.g., CellarTracker, Vivino) can be used for more recent tastings vs. professional reviewers Potential for market disruption Consolidation likely to continue - Total Wine, Costco - continue to build out more nationwide reach Technology - wine world catching up with the rest of the world Small retailers - need to compete with more personalized service, which can leverage tools to be virtual now Delivery to door, sometimes in hours or minutes in some states Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Creating a positive message for wine w/ Gino Colangelo, Come Over October	05 Feb 2025	00:29:37
With many macro headwinds for the wine world, Gino Colangelo, founder of Colangelo PR, felt the negative and often poorly fact-checked press around alcohol and health posed an existential threat. Teaming with Karen McNeil of The Wine Bible and fellow PR leader Kimberly Charles, they founded Come Over October, a campaign to create a positive narrative around wine. With freely available media assets and over 120 partners, the movement, in its first stretch, has shown the power of focusing on the positive elements of wine. Detailed Show Notes: Macro wine challenges include marijuana, Ozempic, and RTDs, but “no alcohol is healthy” messages from WHO and other gov’t organizations potentially pose an existential threat to the industry Come Over October (“COO”) founding Campaign to advocate for wine Commission research - 60%+ 21-39-year-olds would change consumption if alcohol health guidelines changed, 60%+ participate in Dry January or Sober October (which equates to 17% of the year) Karen McNeil, writer of The Wine Bible, got backlash over post against Dry January and ideated Come Over October Kimberly Charles, owner of an SF wine PR firm, joined as co-founder Started the company in spring 2024 (Come Together, a Community for Wine) as a mission-driven company to advocate for wine Fundamental principles Had to reach consumers No negativity towards other alcoholic beverages Involve everyone in the wine world The goal for success: turning the narrative around wine positive (e.g., more articles on the social benefits of wine) Measured by impressions of negative vs. positive articles about wine In a battle for hearts and minds vs just getting the facts right Asked for two things from partners Modest check - $1-10k to pay for campaign, website, social media, media asset creation Activation - use campaign assets (free to all) to run a COO campaign Example activations Total Wine - in-store signage, direct marketing, social media posts Constellation Brands - bought in-store radio ads for 800 Kroger stores under the COO banner (promoting Kim Crawford, Meiomi, & The Prisoner with Karen McNeil doing voiceover) and reversed negative sales trends in stores Jackson Family - free tasting, events, cash support for COO Campaign success metrics 120 companies participated >1,000 retail stores engaged (e.g., Kroger, Total Wine, Gary’s) ~$100k donated media (e.g., Wine Enthusiast, Vinepair, Wine Spectator) Next Campaign - Spring 2025 Focus on the food message Differentiate wine as food vs alcohol Continue togetherness message Bring in chefs, restaurants Then roll back into October Would like to hire a Director to run the company Health debate Loneliness epidemic - 30% of males don’t have close friends Wine has a unique ability for positive wellness in bringing people together Does the industry need a positive health message/research to turn things around truly? (e.g. - wine → better relationships / friendships → stress reduction → better health) 60 Minutes show on The French Paradox (1991) changed the wine world and led to 30+ years of growth Not yet seeing health impacts of marijuana usage as it has only been legal recently Contact info: info@comeoveroctober.com or gcolangelo@colangelopr.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Maintaining Ex-Chateau Quality w/ Denis Houles and Erik Portanger, 1275 Collections	17 Nov 2021	00:49:55
Having experienced the difference in taste from wines sourced ex-chateau versus the secondary market, Denis Houles, CEO of 1275 Collections, is on a mission to create a new wine asset class of pristine conditions wines. Denis and Erik Portanger, Head of Strategy at 1275 Collections, tell us about the industry-wide issues around provenance, particularly with transportation and storage, and how 1275 leverages technology and direct chateaux relationships to build a solution to keep the wines as if they never left the chateaux. Detailed Show Notes: Denis’ background He grew up in the south of France, fell in love with wine in Bordeaux MIT engineering grad lived in Rome, got a Stanford MBA, and worked at McKinsey & Company in London Believes in working in what you’re passionate about and founded Claret Club in 2003 - a private members club centered around wine, having chefs crafts food around the wine instead of vice versa Erik’s background A financial journalist for the Wall Street Journal in London was about to also write about personal passions, which was wine He went to 1st Claret Club even in 2003 with Chateau Palmer and had his 1st wine epiphany 1275 Collections Overview Fully documented, fully transparent way of collecting pristine wine from chateaux Based in the freeport of Geneva - wines held in bond, no sales taxes until removed Purchase directly from chateaux or negociant, sometimes get back vintages “Internet of Bottles” - NFC chips with credit card grade security, for provenance and monitoring of temperature and humidity, pairs with a mobile app Data per bottle and case, only tracked while in 1275’s control Provenance: issues with storage and transportation Provenance is more than just not being fake, but also how many hands the wine has passed through and storage conditions Fine wine often moved between warehouses in trucks - often unrefrigerated LVMH launched its own traceability platform called Aura Octavian Vaults in the UK - requests for photos of bottles has increased ~30% each year for the last few years, highlighting the growing consumer awareness of strong provenance Provenance premium Some are high, e.g., DRC from Drouhin cellar sold for ~$500k/bottle Historically, the premium is meager - ~2-3% because most wines are bought and sold by traders Premium increasing over time - auctions and library wines sold from chateaux selling for higher premiums Traceability solutions Pure tracking Comprehensive - tracking and monitoring (temperature, humidity) eProvenance is a B2B solution for wineries and importers 1275 Collections believes a fully traceable stock of wines will come 1275 believes wine damage from storage/handling is a more significant issue than counterfeit wines Wine Storage There is minimal research on the impacts of storage The more researched area is the impact of transportation - road transportation is worse than cargo ships Lack of transparency and accountability in the industry Key things to track - temperature, temperature fluctuations (change pressure in the bottle), humidity, circulation of air (to prevent mold), lack of contaminants (free of bad smells) - mostly TCA 1275 Business Model End-to-end solution for people who want a great wine collection, direct from estates with technology to have full traceability Collections start at €25,000 2% annual management fee (includes sourcing, transportation, insurance, and storage) For €100,000+ - a one-off advisory fee of €4,000 and lower management fees (1.4-1.8%) ~€15M+ under management currently (October 2021) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Productivity and Community with Eric LeVine, CellarTracker	10 Nov 2021	00:43:27
Building the app while on sabbatical from Microsoft in 2003, Eric LeVine, CEO and founder of CellarTracker, had been close to a one-person show until recently. Yet, he’s built one of the most useful productivity tools for wine collectors, an engaged community of geeky wine lovers, and a respectable business that he’s now investing in to grow and take to new heights for the benefit of the CellarTracker community. Eric’s openness and candor provide an in-depth look at how one of the leading wine platforms was founded, built, and where it’s going next. Detailed Show Notes: Eric’s background “Tech geek” to “wine geek” He was at Microsoft from 1992 - 2005; his last project was the “send error report” feature 1999 - took a biking trip to Tuscany and fell in love with wine and started collecting Built a tool to keep track of his cellar, then let a few friends use it, which morphed a personal spreadsheet into a relational database Eric created CellarTracker while on sabbatical from Microsoft in 2003, then in April 2004, launched it publicly and left Microsoft a few months later CellarTracker overview Core element - a productivity tool to catalog and manage every aspect of the wine experience (e.g., purchasing, tracking, consuming) Byproduct - “Yelp for wine” - the aggregated wisdom of the community from tasting notes, drinking windows User base 10M unique people visit the site ~750k registered users ~300k active users Wine database 4M wines created 135M bottles in cellars 9.1M tasting notes in the community + 1.3M professional tasting notes Features and functions Optical recognition of labels - partners with Vivino Most used features - tasting notes (~10M visitors/year on the website, most people reading or researching the tasting notes; ~9.1M tasting notes growing ~750k / year / ~2k / day) Features collectors use - what wines do they have, when do they want to drink them, what are wines worth (the main premium feature) Wine valuations - partner with Wine Market Journal for appraisals, overlaid with what people are paying for the wines in CellarTracker Drinking windows - updated by users, partnership with review publications to overlay their data for subscribers of their content Surprise & Delight feature - the ability to print a restaurant-style wine list Geekiest feature - can print unique barcodes for your bottles and use a scanner to check them in and out Default mode - creates a unique barcode for each specific bottle For restaurants - uses same code for each wine of a particular size Conducted research into the wine collector space ~18M people in the US store wine at home / in a wine fridge ~10% awareness of CellarTracker in the US ~5-10% awareness of CellarTracker globally Data analytics They just hired the 1st data scientist several weeks ago (as of Oct 2021) They haven’t done a lot to date User ratings - can track/follow specific authors, most often used for older wines at auction as one of the only sources of data for older wines Richard Bazinet authored research in 2016 of an analysis of community ratings vs. professional publications Never specifically built tools to enhance “influencers” in the system, was anti “gamification” elements to incentivize people to write tasting notes Data accuracy - has a team of 4 (some PT/ some FT) to curate the wine database and look for duplicates, use both automation and humans to have duplicate detection Business model “Voluntary Payment” - one of the early “Freemium” business models Established this because the value of CellarTracker is in the active community, and the data it creates makes the platform more robust and valuable Suggested payment based on the size of collection - avg ~$57/year $40/year for <500 bottles $80/year for 500-999 bottles $160/year for 1,000+ bottles The lowest payment is $20, and some pay thousands The majority of revenue comes from this Some ads, but not in the app Affiliate links with Wine-Searcher - the #2 referral source after Google Key differentiators of CellarTracker Cellar management - hardcore focus on scalable needs of collectors Good engagement - attracted a set of people who keep coming back Community - an “authoritative” audience - more geeky people that are in the community Focus on privacy, needs of the community, up-time, neutrality (not affiliated with retailers or other businesses) The next horizon for CellarTracker Building a team - was only 3 people at the start of 2021, the goal is to be 11 by year-end (data scientists, engineers, UI designer) Upgrade & deepen the existing experience, especially mobile app - they have seen a significant shift to mobile over the last 10 years, More recommendations and automation of different scenarios Connection to industry/wineries/other parts of the wine ecosystem (no natural interfaces today) Better understand and engage with the 10M people who visit the CellarTracker website - many of whom use it as a research platform Brought on a group of angel investors to reinvest cash flow into the business Hosted on Acast. 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	Fine Wine End-to-End w/ Don St. Pierre and Adam Lapierre MW	03 Nov 2021	00:40:06
As the only fine wine end-to-end solution in the US, Vinfolio has recently launched its wine investment service, leveraging its deep expertise in the fine wine arena. Don St. Pierre, Executive Chairman, and Adam Lapierre MW, President, tell us about Vinfolio's history, how the marketplace, storage solution, and VinCellar work together, as well as get into their recent foray into wine investment. A must-listen for those intrigued with wine investment and for fine wine lovers in general. Detailed Show Notes: Don St. Pierre's background 1996 - founded ASC Fine Wines w/ his father, a wine importer in China 2010 - sold ASC to Suntory, stayed with the company until 2014 2015 - got connected with Vinfolio and bought 33% of business with a friend Adam Lapierre's background Mainly on the supply side (worked at a winery in the Finger Lakes, at an importer) Became an MW in 2013 and moved to the buying side, working for Lidl, a major retailer of wine Joined Vinfolio in 2018, became President in 2020 Vinfolio's history Started by Steve Backman, a software entrepreneur, and wine collector, in 2004 - he wanted to create a cellar management tool and marketplace to store and sell wine Built VinCellar - cellar management tool, started at a similar time to Cellar Tracker (Eric Levine), the difference is Steve wanted a more end-to-end solution for collectors vs. a more utility tool for Cellar Tracker Built VinFolio - marketplace and warehouse storage business 2009 - Vinfolio went bankrupt in Global Financial Crisis, clients came in and took over the business Vinfolio is an end-to-end solution for wine collectors - buying, storing, and selling wine, focusing on the niche of fine wine coupled with technology Similar business model to some UK businesses (e.g., Berry Bros & Rudd, Farr Vintners) Most people hear about Vinfolio through retail/e-commerce today, but that may shift as VinCellar is re-built and re-launched Vinfolio Marketplace A fixed price auction model Uses proprietary tools that determine recommended market price for collectors to sell at Storage clients use VinCellar to put wines for sale, or others can use the full-service option w/ the cellar acquisition team (every bottle on the marketplace has been inspected with it being rare for wines to be sent back) Wine sourcing Collector Marketplace (⅓ of wine sales) - from individual collectors Producer Marketplace (⅔ of wine sales) - from a global network of merchants (e.g., negociants), direct from producers, and US importers/distributors (~15-20% of sourcing) Try to clearly differentiate between the sourcing types Advantages of the Vinfolio marketplace For Buyers - the breadth of wine at their fingertips, more clarity around the asking price vs. other auctions For Sellers - realized prices often higher than live auctions (except for very rare wines) Wine Storage A vital part of the business is to create ready supply for the marketplace It makes VinCellar an essential part of the business Convenience for clients to get delivery A premium service Pricing ~$5/case/month Inventory is cataloged and received at the bottle level Clients can take delivery or sell wines at the bottle level Wine Investment Service It started because Vinfolio got unsolicited inquiries around wine as an asset class for investment Retail marketplace helps Vinfolio understand where market demand is Investment customers are mainly new customers vs. traditional clients that are more passionate wine collectors Vinfolio investment process Min investment size = $25,000 - in order to have a diversified portfolio Purchase in original wood cases (OWC) mostly Understand client's interests Focus mainly on blue-chip / investment grade wines, the foundation of every portfolio is Bordeaux "Stock picking" - look at buying opportunities and allocate portfolio across current and mature vintages Put wines in storage - mainly in the UK under bond (as it's easier to sell) Key benefits of Vinfolio wine investment Buying side - acquire below market (charge landed cost (which includes shipping from the UK) + 6% commission, which is usually 10-20% below US retailer pricing) Selling side - uses fixed auction model, 12% commission for the sale (lower than standard commission rates) Storage fees consistent with w/ Vinfolio storage fees Investors get access to special wines, similar to private clients Vinfolio has an informal list of producers with high demand, leveraging experience of the day to day business Uses Vin-dex - Vinfolio proprietary pricing algorithm - provides a daily market price for wines Has 10 years of historical auction data Wine-Searcher pricing - takes in ~5,000 web calls/day Historic Vinfolio sale prices Also a member of Liv-ex The investment service launched a couple of months ago (as of Oct 2021) - ~$0.75M assets under management vs. ~$250M total under in Vinfolio storage Investment differentiators Transparency of process, particularly rationale for wine selections Investment strategy - diversification with multiple cases of wine Experience in the fine wine market Big initiatives for Vinfolio VinCellar overhaul - orienting data around investment as well E-commerce platform re-launch - transitioning to a new platform with more refined, personalized user experiences Hiring more quality people to service clients Carrying more inventory to have more wine available Hosted on Acast. 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	Balancing the Head and Heart of Wine Investing w/ Tom Gearing, Cult Wines	27 Oct 2021	00:59:18
As the wine investment business leader with $275M of assets under management, Cult Wines has been a pioneer in the space for over a decade. Born out of a passion for wine, Tom Gearing, CEO and founder of Cult Wines, tries to balance the head and heart elements of investing in wine with actively managed portfolios by CFAs and experiences with some of the top wineries of the world. Tom shares all the details and great examples of why people should consider investing in wine, the Cult Wine investment process, and where Cult Wines is heading. Detailed Show Notes: Tom’s background founded Cult Wines w/ his brother in university Father was an investment banker with a passion for wine, especially Burgundy Traveled a lot to Burgundy as a child Started an import company - Burgundy Cellar The early 2000s - started Financial Wines - an online price transparency tool, but ran out of funding after the dot com crash 2007-2008 - during Financial Crisis - people looking for alternative investments - Tom realized wine was a safe haven and should be more investable Based in the UK Where the Wine trading is very well established The UK has tax free status for wine trading for anyone in the world - can keep wine in a tax free warehouse where you don’t pay taxes (sales tax, VAT) upfront Asian collectors used London to build collections before shipping it Brexit impact - mostly operational (shipping is a lot slower) vs. tax, Why invest in wine? Those with a passion for wine - Build a fine wine collection, can drink it, or sell it in the future Those not passionate about wine - wine prices are more consistent and tend to go up in value because the supply goes down over time (people drink it), tends to be insensitive to financial market fluctuations (went up in value in 2009) - suitable for diversification Vs. art/cars/other alternative investments, wine is more attractive: Accessibility - lower barriers to entry - hundreds or thousands of dollars for wine vs. millions for fine art/cars Liquidity - better than other alternative assets Price transparency - more trading publicly and more visibility (though, still not as good as it could be) Wine investment serves as a storage/aging function for the fine wine market with pristine provenance and authenticity Cult Wines Overview Not a retailer - acquires wines on behalf of clients Three warehouses - London, Paris, Bordeaux EU changed storage laws in 2016 to hold wines without paying VAT (similar to the UK) Have own warehouse and staff to ensure provenance and authenticity of wines (e.g., caught heat damage on a shipment of Scarecrow wine and made a claim with freight forwarder immediately) Has own photography studio and processes 250 cases/day, and photos are immediately uploaded for inspection Investment process Has a managed portfolio service (min $10k investment) Gather client objectives - risk profile, investment duration (3-5 years, 5-10 years, 10+ years), how wine fits into their entire portfolio Build a personalized, customized portfolio Store wine in physical warehouses (clients own bottles or cases, the physical asset b/c it’s hard to have liquidity for funds where people have fractional ownership of a fund) Get access to investment platform Top-down investment process - actively managed portfolios Cult Wines has a Chief Investment Officer (CIO), and all portfolio managers are Chartered Financial Analysts (CFA) Constantly reviewing the market and making asset allocation decisions E.g., Trump Tariffs on European wine - team thought Bordeaux would go down in price, proposed reducing allocations from 40% -> 30% and re-allocate to Italy, which looked undervalued already and had no tariffs; in 6 months, AUM of Bordeaux went from 40%->36% and Italy 6%->13% and Bordeaux prices went down 2-3% and Italy up 12% Assets Under Management (AUM) - $275M UK/Europe is the biggest Asia next Americas (smallest, but newest) Fees Annual management fee - starts at 2.95%/year (with $10k investment), 2.75% (with $35k investment), 2.5% ($150k investment), 2.25% ($500k investment) Benefits - portfolio allocation, customization of the portfolio, investment platform access, customer support, storage & insurance, trading on the platform (no feeds on trading to align Cult Wines interests with clients) Higher tiers get more experiential benefits - access to producers, client-only events, educational activities, vineyard visits Wine Buying 35% direct from winery/new vintages 65% secondary market - from existing investors, trusted suppliers/brokers, and trading platforms (e.g., Liv-Ex) Wine Selling / Delivery ~20% of wines have been delivered to people, can ship to 45 states, clients pay delivery fees Some clients use Cult wines as a global cellar - e.g., a Japanese collector sent wines to the US when he was going to be there to visit Wine sales channels Cult Wines buys for other clients - for wines they believe will appreciate more Trade team - sells to other wine merchants, brokers, traders, importers Retail/Direct to Consumer - listed on Wine-Searcher and Cult Wines website for sale Team - ~100 people total Infrastructure based in UK (including ~24 tech and product folks) Regional offices - relationship managers, portfolio manager (all CFA level; Hong Kong, Singapore, 2 in London, New York) 8 in North America (3 in Canada, 5 in New York) Company’s Growth 1st 5 years - establishing proof of concept 2nd 5 years: 2014 - acquired competitor, Premier Cru Fine Wine Investments, doubled AUM and business 2016 - opened Hong Kong office 2018 - opened Singapore office 2014-2019 - $7 -> $50Mm in AUM Next 5-year phase (18 months in) - “reborn, evolution” Fine wine investment is limited by market inefficiencies: accessibility, liquidity, price transparency Focused on projects that will improve inefficiencies and that will naturally make the wine investment space grow Types of wine for investment Opportunistic trading - capturing inefficiencies in pricing - there may be opportunities to buy in one region and sell in another at a profit Benchmark wines - based on scores (with critics weighted differently by the impact), vintages, the value of an established baseline of wines (e.g., Bordeaux, Burgundy) Finding new opportunities - wines with high quality that have a good chance of increasing in value, e.g., Pierre Gonon St Joseph - was 30-40 euros 3-4 years ago, now $150/bottle Auction houses - don’t work with them much Hard to get certainty of provenance A lot more mature/older wines which have already gone up a lot in value Costs are prohibitive (10-20% on a transaction) But the best place to get the highest/best prices (e.g., 1945 DRC from the Drouhin cellar got ~$500k / bottle) Next for Cult Wines Launching new platform for managed investment service Bespoke, public blockchain for security, authenticity, and speed of secure transactions Continue to build North American offices (opened Spring 2021) in Canada and New York Hosted on Acast. 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	Making Wine Investing Accessible w/ Anthony Zhang, Vinovest	20 Oct 2021	00:37:03
A serial entrepreneur, Anthony Zhang, was pondering alternative investments and fell into wine. With superior returns to the S&P 500, less volatility, and low correlation with the stock market, wine investment seemed like a perfect category to democratize with technology. Anthony tells us why people should consider investing in wine, the Vinovest investment process, and how wine investment may impact the wine industry. All with a mission of lowering the cost and barriers for the average consumer to invest in wine. Detailed Show Notes: Anthony’s background He grew up around the world, childhood in Beijing and Hong Kong Went to USC for college and founded EnvoyNow, a food delivery service for college campuses with investment from Mark Cuban and Peter Thiel Was considering alternative investments and was attracted to wine over others (e.g., art, cars) Wine investing challenges Hard to get access to the wines Fees for auctions, shipping, and storage Investment thesis - fine wine has outperformed the S&P 500 over the last 20 years, has half the volatility, and has a low correlation with the stock market (i.e., is a good hedge); wine also has a decreasing supply over time, which enables appreciation over time Vinovest investment process Choose how much to invest, how long to invest in (e.g., 5 vs. 20 years), and your risk appetite (e.g., blue-chip wines like 1st growths or Grand Cru Burgundy or “emerging markets” like newer winemakers, ownership changes, etc.…) => this helps determine which wines to invest in Invest in whole bottles or cases, not fractional bottles or fractions of a portfolio Acquire, store, and insure wines Vinovest can help sell wines as well Fees - all-inclusive 2.85% / year asset management fee Access/procurement of wines Shipping and wine storage Insurance Average bottle price ~$200-600/bottle Acquire wines below retail by buying direct from negociants or wineries Currently managing ~$50M (as of Sept 2021) Can take physical delivery of wines - but often stored in Europe, so can arrange for batch delivery with others to reduce shipping costs (from hundreds of dollars to <$100 for shipping) Valuing wine and liquidity Vinovest plugs into major wine exchanges (e.g., Liv-ex, Wine Owners, Cavex, Berry Bros, Bordeaux Index) to gather real-time sales data Selling wine - only invest in whole bottles and cases, so there are more places to sell to, including retailers and restaurants. Most deals are done offline Good liquidity for 5-15-year-old wines Need at least a 5 year time horizon to realize returns Investable wines Need scarcity (not available widely), track record of improving with age, and brand equity (a sought after, globally recognized brand) Regional mix - ~25-35% Bordeaux, #2 = Burgundy, #3 = Italy (Super Tuscans, Barolo), small amounts of select producers in California, Chile, Germany; vintage Champagne having a resurgence (e.g. - 1996, 2002 vintages) Algorithm for determining wines backtested back to the 1980s Fake/counterfeit wines Provenance/fraud are the most significant risk for newcomers => Vinovest’s insurance company inspects and authenticates the wines Vinovest only buys in-bond so can track the previous owners Key players in the wine investment space Mainly in Asia and Europe Private Banks have wine funds, UK (Vin-X, Wine-ex, Cult Wines) Vinovest differentiation - more technology-driven, collect more data and aggregate it to create automated investment strategies To address wine funds that fail - each investor owns their wines with an audit trail that shows the wine is theirs Wine investment impact on the wine industry Wine prices may increase as more players enter the investment market Climate change is increasing prices through lower yields It won’t impact commercial wines (e.g., $10-20 bottles), but fine wines Auction houses - the modern investor isn’t okay with paying 20-25% premiums Regulation US - wine is classified as a collectible, like art or rare coins, and is subject to capital gains tax when sold (self-reported) Int’l - some countries, like the UK, France, and parts of Asia, wine is classified as a “wasting asset” with an expiration date (often 50 years) and is capital gains tax-free Next for Vinovest - want to continue to educate consumers on the benefits of wine investing, intends to create a low entry point to make wine investing more accessible Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Tackling Climate Change w/ Josep Maria Ribas & Julien Gervreau, IWCA	13 Oct 2021	00:45:44
With droughts, floods, hail, wildfires, and more challenging how wine is made, Familia Torres and Jackson Family Wines are leading the way to tackle climate change in the wine industry by founding the International Wineries for Climate Action. Founded in 2019, the group already has 22 members and continues to expand its reach and impact. Listen in as Josep Maria Ribas Portella, Climate Change Director for Familia Torres, and Julien Gervreau, VP Sustainability at Jackson Family Wines, tell us about the impacts of climate change, how to measure GHG in the wine industry, and ways wineries are working to improve their emissions. A mission-critical effort for the entire wine industry, listen in to learn more! Detailed Show Notes: Josep’s & Familia Torres’ background Climate Change Director, an energy engineer, has been with Familia Torres for five years Torres - 150-year history, 5th generation running the company Climate change dept reports directly to Miguel Torres (CEO), who got passionate about the subject after watching An Inconvenient Truth with Al Gore Julien & Jackson Family Wines’ (“JFW”) background VP Sustainability at JFW JFW is a large, family-owned company, best known for Kendall Jackson and La Crema In the 2nd generation, the company is very passionate about climate change 2008 - Torres and JFW came together on climate change and the need to measure greenhouse gas (“GHG”) emissions International Wineries for Climate Action (IWCA) Founded by Torres and JFW in 2019 ~2010 - Miguel Torres tried to start something similar in Spain, but it didn’t work out Deciding to partner w/ JFW and make it international led to the successful launch of the IWCA IWCA tries to standardize emissions measurement and communications The wine industry is not a significant contributor to climate change, but agriculture is an emerging area of opportunity, and wine can represent agriculture more broadly IWCA is 1st agriculture group to join the UN’s “Race to Zero” initiative Impact of climate change on the wine industry The impacts are being felt globally (Torres) Advanced ripening of grapes (leading to higher alcohols) More extreme weather - prolonged droughts in Spain, flooding, late hail, hydric stress (leading to worse wildfires), late-season heat spikes Measuring GHG emissions - Scope 1-3 definition Scope 1 - direct emissions - e.g., fuel burnt in winery vehicles, gas used in boilers, CO2 usage Scope 2 - indirect emissions from purchase of electricity Scope 3 - indirect emissions from purchased goods and services - e.g., packaging, logistics, waste disposal of bottles, etc.… Scope 1&2 are ~20-25% of GHG emissions, Scope 3 - 75-80% GHG impact of a bottle of wine Use World Resource Institute’s GHG Protocol and ISO14064 inventory management process For IWCA members (as of Oct 2021) - the average bottle of wine has a 1.61 CO2e/L of GHG emissions Range - 0.75 - ~10 => larger wineries tend to be lower, smaller wineries tend to be higher GHG reduction measures Shipping is ~15% of carbon footprint for Torres => using railroad when possible, ship in bulk (for every 1 bulk shipper sent, it replaces 4 containers, saving 3 shipments) Electricity - many wineries installing onsite renewable energy, primarily solar Harvest is 2.5 months/year but uses ~50% of electric consumption Packaging - ~25% of total GHG footprint Glass is ~20% of the total GHG footprint JFW - reduced the weight of bottles for KJ and La Crema - saved ~3-4% of total GHG emissions and saved money Reduce weight bottles have more recycled content in the glass, reduce emissions of glass making process (e.g., Furnace of the Future), bloggers starting to weigh bottles before tasting Torres - bottles down to 400g, can’t go much lower, or bottles will break on the bottling line or with consumers Potential future of re-utilizing bottles Regenerative farming - could potentially lead to carbon sequestration in the soil, science still in progress IWCA Mission & Purpose Decarbonize the wine industry as fast as possible 3 membership classes - Gold, Silver, Applicant (committed to joining) Requirements Commit to Net Zero by 2050 with intermediate reductions by 2030 (all) Submit baseline GHG emissions inventory, verified by 3rd party audit (all) Min 20% onsite renewable energy (Gold) Constant reductions year over year (Gold) Do not recognize purchase of external offsets in reductions Target membership Goal - 20 wineries by Nov 2021 Oct 2021 - 22 wineries Miguel Torres long-term target - 100 wineries Fees - a sliding scale by volume Flat fee - €4,000 / year Variable fee - €0.01 / case produced / year, cap of 600,000 cases Max fee = €10,000 / year Measurement & verification paid by wineries themselves Released a GHG calculator to enable wineries to catalog emissions data on their own Smaller wineries join (there are members as small as a few thousand cases) to participate in something bigger and to amplify their voice Upcoming for the IWCA Oct 21st - 1st Member Report launch - includes all GHG inventories from all members, which will be made public The website will be overhauled Friends of IWCA category to be launched The initial stage of working groups launching Hosted on Acast. 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	Breaking Down the 3-Tier System w/ Tom Wark, National Association of Wine Retailers	06 Oct 2021	00:55:45
Instituted in a different time, post Prohibition, the 3-Tier system of alcohol distribution and sales in the US creates inefficiencies in matching inventory with demand. Tom Wark, Executive Director of the National Association of Wine Retailers (“NAWR”), founder of Wark Communications, and writer of Fermentation - the Daily Wine Blog educates us on the history, key issues, and challenges of navigating the 3-Tier system for wine consumers to get the wines they want. The NAWR is on a mission to modernize the regulatory landscape for alcohol and bring choice to consumers. Listen in to Tom’s decades of war stories on wine regulation! Detailed Show Notes: Tom’s background He grew up in Northern California and got interested in wine at an early age He got a Masters in History Worked in wine PR, then started his firm - Wark Communications Started Fermentation - the Daily Wine Blog, in 2004 - wrote a lot about regulation, was pro-DTC (direct-to-consumer) Approached by the board of National Association of Wine Retailers (“NAWR”) to be Executive Director (2008) NAWR Members all independent fine wine retailers (e.g., K&L, Zachy’s, Grapes, the Wine Company) >100 members nationwide Estimate ~500 retailers actively doing e-commerce and interstate shipping ~400,000 alcohol licenses nationally Wine Retail Space Grocery stores, convenience stores, drug stores, big-box retailers - mostly <$15/bottle, ~75% of wine sold Small independent retailers => focus of NAWR Multi-state retailers (e.g., Total Wine, BevMo) DTC from wineries Key issues for fine wine retailers Primary - want to serve customers where they are Amazon could get into the wine space w/ Whole Foods alcohol licenses and ship to anyone locally -> The only way for independent retailers to compete is to do interstate shipping 16 states currently allow interstate shipping Wine.com has retail licenses in many states to ship to most states Secondary issue - procurement of inventory Retailers must buy from in-state wholesalers who have a limited selection Retailers desire to purchase directly from importers or wineries no matter where they are to broaden their selection NAWR mission - to modernize the regulatory landscape for alcohol Most regulations were written in the 1930s-1950s Alcohol is more regulated than tobacco E.g., if a brewery wants to sell direct to consumer, it needs to sell to a wholesaler and then repurchase it to sell to the consumer Franchise laws - binds producer to a wholesaler for life, even if the wholesaler is no longer supporting the brand Advocate litigation for change - e.g., states that allow their own retailers to ship to other states but don’t allow out-of-state retailers to ship in, believes that violates the dormant commerce clause of the Constitution Lobbying, education of retailers, cultivation of allies (very few - consumers and media; most against - distributors, non-online retailers (believe it will create more competition), wineries (indifferent), importers (were not active supporters)) The 3-Tier system in the US 1930’s - post-prohibition (1933) - each state had to regulate alcohol, and each did it a bit differently Two main concerns - prevent tied house laws and organized crime Tied house - producers controlled retailers => got bars to do sketchy things and promote high alcohol consumption 3-tiers - producer, wholesaler, retailer Retailers must buy from wholesalers Stopping tied house - wineries can’t own retailers Historically - lots of wholesalers competing to represent producers Today - 10,000+ wineries, fewer wholesalers -> wholesalers act as gatekeepers, not required to bring producers in and shut out small producers who aren’t worth the time and effort to represent them CA producers and importers can sell direct to retailers/restaurants Wholesalers are very powerful - contribute meaningfully ($10M+/year) to state political campaigns, 10x more than wineries and retailers combined Each state has different 3-tier regulation, creates an enormous compliance burden IL - wineries can sell directly to retailers only if they produce <25k cases/year and must sell <5k cases/year w/in the state CA/WA - all direct sales from producers to retailers/restaurants E-commerce ~10-12% of wine retail today, includes Drizly, Instacart, & grocery delivery Shipping far smaller than delivery To be successful, retailers need to engage consumers digitally - cultivate an email list, create an experience for customers Challenges Getting wine to consumers (illegal to ship to many states) Hard to make time to do outreach to legislators, regulators while running a small business Restaurants become retailers during the Covid pandemic The 1980s & 1990s - number of wineries exploded, they needed to sell directly to consumers since distributors wouldn’t represent them, became legal a precedent with the 2005 Supreme Court Granholm case - which specified if states allowed in-state wineries to ship to consumers, it must allow out-of-state wineries to ship into the state Taxes If states allow retailers to ship in, retailers are required to remit local sales taxes and have a permit Software systems set up for wineries also can cover retailers (e.g., ShipCompliant, Avalara), makes compliance easier Pure online players - wine.com, Naked Wines => valuable for showing consumers what can be accessed online and the experience of online retail What needs to change? The Supreme court needs to tell states not to discriminate (2019 case - Tennessee vs. Thomas - can’t discriminate against retailers) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Getting Inside Bordeaux w/ Jane Anson, janeanson.com	29 Sep 2021	00:57:29
Accidentally filling the big shoes of Michael Broadbent and Steven Spurrier, Jane Anson, wine critic, author of Inside Bordeaux, founder of janeanson.com, and former Bordeaux correspondent for Decanter for nearly 20 years, is one of the world’s foremost experts on the wines, history, and region of Bordeaux. Having lived in Bordeaux since 2003, Jane shares her deep insights into how Bordeaux became as famous as it is, how the systems of La Place de Bordeaux and En Primeur work, and the complex terroir of the region. She gives us insight into the content of janeanson.com and how it will be a unique look into Bordeaux, focus on the drinkability of the wines, and many of the unique features to be released. Detailed Show Notes: Jane’s background Living in Bordeaux since 2003, she thought she’d only be there for 1-2 years Journalist background Decanter’s Bordeaux correspondent for nearly 20 years, wrote a weekly column since 2014, the sole Bordeaux wine critic since the 2016 vintage She took a tasting aptitude class at the enology school in Bordeaux She chose Bordeaux because it’s still a big city (lived in London before), 2 hours from the Spanish border, 2 hours from Paris Janeanson.com Can be accessed by inside-bordeaux.com or janeanson.com Saw a gap in the market for a website specializing in Bordeaux vs. ~4-5 for Burgundy Value proposition No outside investment, no advertising Focus on drinkability Covers all wines that sell through La Place de Bordeaux (including the ~90 wines that are not Bordeaux wines) Regular verticals, en primeur, in bottle reports Two weeks of trips during the year One week - for high-end collectors One week - “free” aimed at young sommeliers, people that want to work in the wine trade to showcase the dynamic side of Bordeaux Launch specials a translation of memoirs of a WWII soldier in Bordeaux Vertical of tiny producer LaFleur Saint-Jean - lies in between Lafleur, Lafleur Petrus, and Petrus in Pomerol only sells direct, sells out immediately, had never done a vertical before 1% for the Planet - 1% of revenue goes towards environmental charities Bordeaux’s rise and fall Key advantages A port city, far enough inland to be a safe port 12th century - duchy of the English crown, wines were sold in the London market The system of chateaux, merchants, negociants was built for export Terroir is very complex (which may be why it’s not talked about much), e.g., of the 61 wines in the 1855 Medoc classification, all of them are on two specific gravel terraces (#3 & 4) of the six terraces of the Medoc Mostly clay underneath with gravel on top Lots of micro terroirs St Emilion - has pure limestone, clay, and gravel Issues that have hurt Bordeaux Every vintage is not great, though Bordelais often say that Frustrate people based on the prices they ask (e.g., 2009/2010 vintages - many people who bought lost money) La Place de Bordeaux Business to business, sell to merchants that sell to consumers Virtual marketplace - enables access to 10,000 clients globally Includes chateaux, brokers, and negociants Sells wine into every level of the food chain - has specialists for on-trade, off-trade, hotels, corner shops, supermarkets, etc.… It doesn’t build your brand but makes sure it gets everywhere Good at giving the illusion of scarcity Can use La Place for specific markets - La Place has expertise in the Asian markets (e.g., China, Vietnam, Japan) Very rare to have exclusivity for negociants Downsides of La Place Creates a very competitive environment - low-end wines compete with each other Protects Bordeaux well; merchants need to buy in bad years to get allocations in good years No direct contact with consumers for wineries Less effective for small guys that aren’t established brands Non-Bordeaux wines selling on La Place Gone from nothing to 60 wines five years ago to 90 wines in 2021 Provides access to global markets - shows wines next to the great wines of Bordeaux Opus One - the 2nd non-Bordeaux wine on La Place (after Almaviva), sold wines since 2004, opened an office in Bordeaux Forced negociants to share client lists (created more transparency) 1st Champagne just joined - Clos des Goisses (Philipponnat) - only 600 bottles of 1996 late release No Burgundy producers (not enough volume, no need for it, and the rivalry between Burgundy and Bordeaux) Barriers to joining La Place - need enough volume to get everywhere, need to do your own brand-building work, and meeting customers An increase in overseas wines has hurt smaller Bordeaux estates -> negociants have limited budgets and drop them Marketing Bordeaux - unlikely to be another 1855 like classification, St Emilion’s classification every ten years is constantly litigated, some marketing organizations: Pomerol Seduction - 8-10 Pomerol estates that band together Bordeaux Oxygen - young producers, targeting younger audiences, no longer active En Primeur Due to export focus, Bordeaux always had samples shipped off overseas From the early 1980s, Parker injected excitement into En Primeur system People used to make money, and now they are often better off waiting until wines are in bottle with certain exceptions (e.g., tiny production Pomerols) No longer has the same sense of urgency Tranche system - release a small amount of wine at one price, then release more later at higher prices E.g., 2010 1st growths came out at €600/bottle (these people made money), final tranche at €1,200/bottle (these people lost money) -> destroyed interest in en primeur in the Chinese market non-Bordeaux wines price more consistently than Bordeaux wines Latour dropping out of en primeur Said they wanted to store wines and release them when best for consumers Still sold to negociants / La Place Don’t1980’s know if this has worked better or not Chateau Palmer - sells 50% en primeur, 50% ten years later Hosted on Acast. 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	Library Release: Digging into Wine Scores	22 Sep 2021	00:20:31
Library Release: Originally aired as Episode 5 in June of 2020. In one of our original episodes, Robert and Peter discuss how competitive the wine market is, how wine scores used to differentiate wines from each other, but do that less today, and the use of wine scores has evolved over time. This episode provides another data point for the conversation around the evolution of the wine critic, as discussed in episodes 61 - 64. Detailed Show Notes: Wine scores were the traditional method of differentiating a wine brand The wine landscape is getting more competitive and crowded, # of wine brands (as of 2019): >1,000 in Napa valley ~4,000 in California ~10,000 in the US ~300,000 globally In Luxury Wine Marketing, Peter did an analysis of 100 point scores in Robert Parker’s The Wine Advocate: 1995 - 14 100 pointers 2005 - 33 2015 - 116 In 20 years, there were 8x more 100 point scores, making them less remarkable than in the past However, the same percentage of wines (0.4%) got 100 points in 2015 as in 1995, as 8x more wines were reviewed by The Wine Advocate How wineries use critic scores In the past - wineries leveraged the followers of wine critics, gaining new customers 20+ years ago, thousands of buyers would flock to wineries with a 100 point score; today, that number is in the hundreds Today - wineries use scores to promote and market their wines - they are used as a validation of quality, not necessarily dependant on a specific wine critic Spinouts of wine critics Many critics have gone independent - Jeb Dunnuck (guest of Episode 64), Antonio Galloni (Vinous), James Suckling, Jeannie Cho Lee, Jancis Robinson - making the field more crowded than ever It has become harder to follow a single critic than in the past Wineries need to build their brands E.g., Philippe Guigal once said, “we don’t do marketing” - and is able to do that because Guigal has already built their brand in the trade with over 20 Robert Parker 100 point scores -> this type of marketing may not be as effective today Brands need to have wine quality as a baseline and more than scores to sell effectively Critics leveraging scores to promote themselves - some critics may give higher scores to be the top score that is used to promote the wine by retailers and wineries, increasing consumers awareness of their own brand and media channel Crowdsourced scores (e.g., CellarTracker, Delectable, Vivino) Scores are a snapshot in time and will change over time It gives the ability to follow individuals and learn their palate Not yet influencing the wine trade (as of early 2020) It helps bring another touchpoint of brand awareness to wineries Wine Berserkers - has had an impact on wine sales, at least a few dozen signups for mailing lists of wineries Peter has worked at Lessons for wine brands: Need to build the brand, having high wine quality and high scores are the baseline Figure out the marketing channels that work for your brand and double down on them The cost of customer acquisition is going up with the fracturing of wine criticism and the rise of crowdsourced wine scores Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Burgundy in Context w/ William Kelley, The Wine Advocate	15 Sep 2021	00:54:17
As the wine reviewer for Burgundy for The Wine Advocate and a small producer of Burgundy himself, William Kelley has a deep and insightful perspective on Burgundy. We discuss how Burgundy became “without substitute” and why “all roads lead to Burgundy,” the rapid escalation of both vineyard and wine prices, and how what was once very contracting landholdings are now consolidating again. History, economics, geology, and terroir all come together in this episode of XChateau! Detailed Show Notes: Listen to the beginning of Episode 62 for background information on William Burgundy as vignerons vs Bordelais châteaux William believes this is an illusion - historically, Burgundy vineyards were owned by the nobility and the church Today - LVMH, AXA, and rich, wealthy people own many of the domaines and vineyards Bordeaux outside the Cru Classe are much more modest in nature The French land reforms of 1792 (during the French Revolution) broke up large tracts of land -> led to a “morcellation of parcels” Led to emphasis on each small parcel of land and its impact Created the ability to see the human element of winemaking (two people making the wine from the same vineyard) and the human impact on terroir Metayage system - born in Beaujolais, a form of “sharecropping” where people take half the fruit in exchange for farming the land, popular in Burgundy where people own small parcels of land and often don’t live there High death/inheritance taxes, which are assessed based on the value of the land lead to more vineyard sales and end up with more consolidation of land holdings, particularly into businesses that don’t have to pay death taxes Burgundy as the top global winegrowing region The wines are good/high quality They pair well with a lot of food and are very versatile (vs. the Medoc) Are a social signifier - wine collectors can “one-up” others by mastering the complexities of Burgundy more than Bordeaux or any other region Grand Cru vineyards are tiny and limited - sends the prices skyrocketing (e.g., Domaine d’Auvenay Aligote now sells for $2,500 / bottle) Bordeaux mismanaged the emerging market of China with the 2010 en primeur pricing, similar to what Hennessy and Cognac did in China, destroying the market Value of Burgundy land High prices partially driven by tax write-offs for any losses, owners get the wine lifestyle “for free” Believes land prices and wine prices will continue to escalate Disconnection between land and wine prices In the 17th century, there used to be a saying that the value of a vineyard should equal 3 years of production - this is way different today E.g., a famous Chablis producer’s Les Clos magnum sells at €80 from the domaine, but $2,000 in the US -> lots of other people making money on the wine outside of the winery “No end in sight” to price increases for Burgundy, wine is still a relatively inexpensive luxury good (vs. cars, watches, etc.…) Climate change Not as bad as some people think, bad weather events also occurred in the 19th century Today there are more viticultural techniques to combat climate change (e.g., canopy management, etc..) Price increases also more than offset the volume decreases The Micro-negociant Purchasing fruit is expensive - ~€3-5,000 per barrel for village wines, €550-600 for Chiroubles If some negociants get the attention of investors, they can acquire land and become domaines More expensive to produce negociant wine vs. domaine wine Growers in Burgundy take the yield risk (the classic arrangement is negociants buy the fruit by the barrel) A seller’s market - need good relationships with growers, hard for outsiders to get good fruit Negociants have the ability to make lower appellations/vineyards more popular - e.g., Arnoud Ente Meursault La Seve du Clos is a lesser site, but Ente has elevated it Domaine vs. Maison Consumers still put a lot of stock by it, but boundaries are blurring E.g., PYCM - started as negociant, rolled in family vineyards, but don’t state “Domaine” anywhere, the idea being that all wines are worthy of the brand Price should be driven by quality, not hierarchy (e.g., some Aligote more expensive than Grand Cru Puligny) Brand expansions can’t be diluted because of the vineyard hierarchy - the Grand Crus are still high quality and drive brand reputation The Future of Burgundy Viticulture - would like to see every site in Burgundy farmed like a Grand Cru. William wants to break glass ceilings in every appellation Winemaking - people extracting less and less, flirting with natural wine movement, lighter, softer styles of red Burgundy more popular, longer elevage is getting more fashionable (and is rooted in history - used to do 2-3 years elevage because it was the only way to clarify the wine) Price escalation impacts on other wine regions - “there is no substitute (for Burgundy),” people will look further afield, but “all roads lead to Burgundy” Insular nature of Burgundy changing - the new generation of owners are from New York, Macau, Shanghai, and Hong Kong Advice to the new generation of producers - taste the great wines of the world, including older benchmark wines Changing leadership of domaines - though marketed as a good thing, there’s a lot of pressure for the next generation of a famous domain, and that tends towards being more conservative and listening to consultants vs. trying something new M&A - “everyone wants to buy as much land as they can”; don’t see a lot of people wanting to go global, there’s still ample price escalation in Burgundy Hosted on Acast. 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	The 2024 US DTC Wine Market w/ Cathy & Chris Huyghe, Enolytics	22 Jan 2025	00:59:10
With a second year of volume declines, 2024 has been challenging for the wine industry. Digging deeper into what trends are shaping the wine industry’s malaise, Cathy and Chris Huyghe, founders of sales analytics software platform Enolytics, have uncovered important insights into the US DTC wine market, including the decline of women and the divide between the affluent and middle class in wine purchasing. Enolytics has also developed a free service for the industry called EnoInsights, which is worth checking out. Detailed Show Notes: Enolytics launched b/c no one in wine knew what to do with their data Builds sales analytics software for the wine & spirits industry for both DTC and wholesale depletion data Customers primarily small (<$1M DTC revenue) & medium-sized, growing in larger wineries US, Canada, Australia - primarily US w/ 80% California Partnership with WineDirect Exchange anonymized data every quarter and analyze it to build reports for the industry ~2k wineries in database, ~1k wineries analyzed after removing outliers 2024 DTC trends Revenue flat-ish, volumes down significantly Women purchasing less (-4%) - overall (-3%), men (-2%); reverses a recent trend of women buying more wine, not generationally different, impacting white (-5%) and rose (-10%) more than red (-2%) Affluent areas are doing better (flat revenue, lower volume), middle-class & poorer areas are down more Wineries increasing pricing (+5% through Q3 2024), AOV up due to pricing VA is doing reasonably well, CA - particularly Napa and Sonoma, hardest hit - they largely depend on tourism (70% of purchases from people outside CA), Central Coast CA is not down as much (70% of purchasers from CA) Hospitality/visitation declined 7% (# of purchasers) in 2024 (also declined in 2023) Impacts wine club sign-ups, with hospitality the main club sign-up engine Wine club growth -3% (# of members) in last 12 months 2020 +7%, 2021 +11%, 2023 -1% (20% attrition through Q3, 28% total; 19% sign-ups), 2024 -2% (19% attrition, 17% sign-ups) Club doing best of all major DTC channels - revenue flat, volume down Less expensive wineries getting hit more (less affluent customers) Customizations up - 20% of shipments, higher revenue per shipment Avg club tenure falling Best practices - better training of tasting room staff, use data to manage attrition (Enolytics has an algorithm to determine attrition risk; wineries that use it see 20% less attrition than average), use data to target customers to join the wine club (high spenders that are not in the club) Website sales have the most significant room for growth, -42% since 2022, still up from pre-pandemic 2020 +250% in online sales Texting, “concierge” services, more targeted telemarketing (highest AOV channel, 6x tasting room; potential to leverage tasting room staff) Average winery emails the entire list, gets lots of unsubscribes, recommends hyper-segmentation, creates messages for 100-200 people Events - same levels as 2022 Opportunity to take tasting room on the road Recommends targeted events with a specific goal Go to places where there’s an existing customer base Cross-channel marketing can be effective, e.g., using DTC data to sell out a restaurant event Wholesale data partner - VIP - includes “can buy” and “lost” accounts Regional wine marketing boards (VA, Paso Robles) engaging Enolytics to do studies on DTC data - currently doing baseline analysis and onboarding more wineries, sending quarterly reports Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Building import and distribution pipes w/ Gabe Barkley, MHW	08 Sep 2021	00:37:16
Breaking into the US market for alcohol has always been hard. Archaic rules such as the 3-tier system and differing regulations by state make it a complex web of rules and regulations to be in compliance. The increasing consolidation of the distributor channel has made it even harder for smaller players to enter. MHW's goal is to make that simpler, giving producers the ability to enter the market and take control of their own destiny. They provide outsourced importation, distribution, and back-office / compliance services so their clients can grow and execute their sales & marketing plan. Listen in as Gabe Barkley, CEO of MHW, gives us a rundown of how they do this and how it compares to traditional importation and distribution. Detailed Show Notes: MHW background Leader in import, distribution, and back-office services for wine, spirits, and beer (beverage alcohol) Founded in 1934 Objective: enable rapid growth of new producers and importers for the US and EU markets Plays mostly in the import and distribution tier of the 3-tier system in the US (3 tiers = producer, distributor, retailer; import being in-between producer and distributor) Has wholesale licenses in 4 markets - NY, NJ, CA, & FL Gabe’s background Passion for wine started when he lived in Rome in college Worked in wine retail after college Left wine for consulting (Accenture, Deloitte) Helped Kevin Sidders launch Vinconnect (listen to E51 for details) Partnered w/ PE Fund post business school to partner w/ MHW (4 years ago) MHW Core Services Provides the “pipes” for selling into the US and EU, does not buy and sell the wines like a traditional importer/distributor Main Services: Certificate of Label Approval (“COLA”) - winery or client’s name on back label “imported by” not MHW Register brands for sale in each market Tax reporting Compliance requirements Logistics - pay taxes, customs clearance, duties, warehousing Fulfillment of orders to wholesalers or retailers in wholesale markets Invoice retailers and collect payment Not a single boxed service, tailor services for each market Clients Theme: they want to invest in growth in the US & EU markets They cover wine, beer, and spirits 4 years ago - 40% spirits, 40% wine, 20% beer 2021 - 50% spirits, 45% wine, 5% beer Serves both domestic and international clients Domestic - outsource compliance and logistics for <50% of a full-time employee Work with more family wineries Early days - main clients were new entrants into the market and more spirits Today - shifted more to wine and larger producers - want to make sure sales & marketing investment are spent how they want it spent Examples: Armand de Brignac (“Ace of Spades”) Carolina Wine Brands Jean-Louis Chave Hypothetical - winery targeting NY market entry - MHW helps bring the product over, the owner comes and open accounts, MHW takes orders and fulfills accounts Hypothetical - the winery has an opportunity with a large national retailer to be in 30 states - MHW brings product over and delivers to wholesalers or direct to retailer in some states Technology ecosystem Internal ERP to deliver solutions to clients Transparency is important - client reporting dashboard that updates every 2 hours Order placement tool Other communications and self-service tools Business Model Per case fee with a minimum monthly fee Breakeven happens ~350 cases/month or more Passes on direct costs of being in the market (e.g., warehousing/storage fees) MHW Size Sold through platform 150M cases since mid-1995 Helping 10,000s of products come to market 150 employees, rapidly hiring Global vision - opened EU office in 2018 - no 3-tier system, but complex tax ecosystem they help clients with Market size - started in a niche, but growing due to increased distributor consolidation (making it hard for wineries to break into the market), cutting out the complexity of the 3-tier system while still controlling your own destiny, providing more cost-effective solutions Competitors - some more tech-focused, a self-serve model; some more focused on 1 vertical (e.g., spirits or wine), MHW differentiates with a high touch service MHW vs traditional importer / distributor 3 ways to enter the market Do it yourself - build out back-office to support it Traditional importer/distributor - lose control of how wine is sold, but get paid upfront and importer sells the wine, lose transparency into who’s buying the wine MHW - strategic partner to import and fulfill the way the winery wants it to happen E-commerce increase enables clients to have another opportunity to get traction in the US market Upcoming for MHW Develop more value-added tech solutions Acquired BevStrat in 2019 - provides on the ground sales support for clients Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Crypto and Wine w/ Jeff Andrews & Ray McKee, Trothe Winery	01 Sep 2021	00:33:42
Jeff Andrews was such a crypto fan that he built 4 crypto mining rigs in his family’s winery lab. A mini-meltdown of one of the rigs didn’t diminish his enthusiasm, making it a no-brainer for Trothe, the new winery based on the best blocks of the 1,300 acres of the Andrews Family Vineyards in the Horse Heaven Hills in Washington State, to accept crypto right out of the gate. Jeff and winemaker Ray McKee talk about their passion for crypto, the process for accepting it as payment for wine, and the benefits for customers and the winery of using crypto in this episode of XChateau. Detailed Show Notes: Jeff’s background 4th generation farmer in Horse Heaven Hills, Washington 1st winegrapes planted in 1980 A lawyer by training Family farms 1,300 acres of vineyards (Andrew Family Vineyards) Exclusive source of grapes for Trothe Wines Ray’s background 2nd generation winemaker in Washington 29 vintages in Washington in 2021, 1 in Australia Was the red winemaker for Chateau Ste Michelle for 10 years Trothe uses the best blocks of grapes from Andrew Family Vineyards Trying to make the best wine possible Crypto enthusiasts (both Jeff and Ray) ~2016-2017 - started investing a bit in crypto Built 4 mining rigs in the winery lab to mine Ethereum 1 mine had a mini-meltdown, which ended the experiment Benefits of crypto for customers Security of transaction - more secure than credit cards Authenticity/provenance for ownership of the wine - creates a secure record of wine ownership with the future potential to link each bottle to an NFT Trothe bottles have unique identifiers and custom made holograms on them - have the potential to link to an NFT in the future Benefits of crypto for the winery “Get more crypto” Connect w/ customers with similar interests Trothe can see where the wines are going in the world w/ crypto Some marketing benefits - positive feedback on social and via email The crypto transaction process Uses Coinbase Commerce Puts an upper and lower bound on transactions to deal with crypto pricing fluctuations Currently on Vinespring e-commerce - does not yet integrate w/ crypto Customer needs to email / call the winery to request a crypto transaction, and then the winery sends an invoice via Coinbase Commerce The transaction constitutes a sale of crypto from wine buyer to the winery and a purchase of crypto by the winery for tax purposes Crypto sales - none yet, wine has only been released for 1 month Other wineries accepting crypto - Mondavi Sisters’ Dark Matter and Aloft Wines Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Exporting the King of Wines w/ Valentina Abbona, Marchesi di Barolo	25 Aug 2021	00:49:58
Growing up in a small town of ~700 people made Valentina Abbona, 6th generation vintner and Export and Marketing Manager for her family’s winery, Marchesi di Barolo, want to explore the world. Stints in the US, India, and China ultimately led her back to the family business and managing wine exports. Valentina talks about the history of Barolo exports, including becoming “The King of wine, wine of Kings,” how she approaches new markets, and the differences between markets around the world. Explore the world through the lens of Barolo in this episode of XChateau! Detailed Show Notes: Marchesi di Barolo background Founded by the last Marquis di Barolo Carlo Tancredi Falletti and French Noblewoman Giulia Colbert di Maulevrier Thomas Jefferson noted that the juice from the Barolo area had potential (which was not the same as the current dry wine) The Marchesa Giulia built the cellars based on the potential of the Nebbiolo grape underground in the 1800s to create a still wine Marchesi di Barolo, and subsequently Barolo, became the “King of wine, wine of Kings” Abbona family bought the estate in 1929 (Valentina’s great grandfather) Valentina’s background She grew up in the town of Barolo (~700 people) Traveled and explored the world before coming back to the wine industry After 1 year in China with a consulting company, she missed the winery and wine industry and came back to work with the family Barolo export history Barolo was part of the Kingdom of Savoy - the King of Savoy in Turin requested wine from Marchesa Giulia, who sent 325 barrels to the King’s Court - 1 for every day of the year except the 40 days of Lent Traveled to royal courts around Europe There is correspondence from the 1930s showing the wine went as far as Kabul and Java Exportation of wine 55% of wine exported, 45% sold in Italy Very proud that Italy is the largest market for the wine The entire portfolio is sold in Italy Export to >60 countries A selection of wines are sold to various markets Top export markets - US, Germany, Norway, Denmark The US has more “geeky” wine knowledge Asia is an emerging market - India (a historical market for Marchesi), China, Thailand, Japan High growth was seen in Southeast Asia (Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Vietnam) - especially for the different single-vineyard wines (which is a similar trend for Barolo in general) The general trend for demand shifting to higher-end, single-vineyard bottlings vs. general Barolo (even in markets like Germany that historically bought more “classic” wines at the low - medium price points) Expanding to new markets Strategy based on the size of the market and knowledge of the wine consumer E.g., Uzbekistan is a new market - “easy” as buyer contacted Marchesi Bigger markets, which have more diverse consumer bases - often need more education and background knowledge before market launch Italy tends to do things solo vs. as a group, though the local Consorzio is starting to promote the territory more Strategy for larger markets Canada - each province has a different partner, particularly with the nuances of the local government monopolies US - one importer with local distributors for the different states; need to have a lot of regional meetings with people in each area Italy has >100 agents for different markets Trade Fairs (e.g., VinItaly, Vinexpo, Prowein) Give an opportunity to change people’s opinions Can have a view of what’s happening globally in 1 day “Vital for our business” VinItaly is different because of its Italy focus - also a place to bring the wineries of the country together and connect India Sold mainly through hotels Every region has its own dynamics and own taxes Average knowledge of sommeliers is very high China They had no exposure to wine on a daily basis when Valentina lived there (2011) Living there helped her understand consumer choices and preferences but did not lead to contacts for market entry Discovered wine clubs, where there are people with great knowledge of wine Barolo/Barbaresco wines are more challenging to the Chinese palate as they don’t have fruit/sweetness that Chinese palates like In-person vs. technology for selling wine Visiting in person is key to building and establishing relationships Technology can help maintain them Tool to help importers ell wine “Have to have a glass of wine in hand” - makes the experience as concrete as possible Sometimes brings soil samples, maps (“very useful”), video, and pictures - allow people to imagine being there and have more conversations For business meetings - video calls work well Preference for a combination of in-person and virtual tools Wine Allocations - some single vineyard and Barolo di Barolo may run out, trying to do more scheduling and programming of allocations by country Women in the wine industry - “always be yourself, don’t be scared of that” The future for Marchesi di Barolo - recently purchased Cascina Bruchiata in the Rio Sordo area of Barbaresco Hosted on Acast. 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	Engineering Wine Criticism w/ Jeb Dunnuck, jebdunnuck.com	18 Aug 2021	00:37:50
Becoming a wine critic sounds like a dream for many. However, even though the cost and effort of setting up a website and putting out information have declined dramatically, doing the work of becoming a professional is no easy task - the time and effort it takes to taste and review thousands of wines a year is daunting. Jeb’s journey from aerospace engineer to reviewer of The Wine Advocate to being the Editor-in-Chief of jebdunnuck.com highlights the passion required for the journey. Jeb talks about his journey, critics going independent, blind tasting, score inflation, and more, all in service of helping his subscribers make informed wine buying decisions. Another unique viewpoint on the evolution of the wine critic on XChateau! Detailed Show Notes: Jeb’s background He grew up on a farm in rural Indiana - no wine on the table Self-trained in wine He traveled through France and fell in love with wine He never had an epiphany wine Worked at Lockheed Martin in upstate New York - was an aerospace engineer for his initial career Did a part-time job at a wine store in Denver 2008 - created a website - The Rhone Report Released a quarterly pdf for free for 3 years Built a subscriber base for 2 years 2013 - Robert Parker asked him to work at The Wine Advocate (“TWA”) Worked at TWA for 5 years Having a chance to work with Robert Parker was key to joining 2017 - left TWA and started JebDunnuck.com The Rhone Report reviews were morphed into JebDunnuck.com Left TWA because Jeb disagreed with the direction of the new ownership, the culture changed dramatically Wine critic vs. wine publication Believes the person writing the reviews is more important than the publication The business model of publications lean them to emphasizing the publication over the critic It’s up to the consumer to know their critics JebDunnuck.com (“JD”) More of a “singular voice” He doesn’t believe in large teams of critics JebDunnuck.com has a small group of critics covering multiple regions each Jeb doesn’t pretend to be a writer as he comes from an engineering background => his goal is to help the consumer make buying decisions and find the wines they like Writes concise vintage reports, talks about style and structure of wines He doesn’t write opinion pieces, commentary, or do events He doesn’t take money to review wines, completely subscriber funded Reviews 9-12k wines/year Critics going independent Believes the trend is actually towards more business-driven, team-driven critic reviews => the size of the wine world is so big that it is pushing that way If the critic is the most important thing for reviews, going independent is the way to do wine criticism Best practices for wine critic ethics Don’t take money from people making the product There are shades of grey - e.g., sometimes people pick up the tab at a dinner Critics should pay their own way (airfare, hotels, meals, etc.…) JD buys a lot of wines but could not purchase them all Cost of being independent Website and getting information out is low now But providing professional (e.g., extensive) coverage is hard and expensive (time, travel) Blind tasting Jeb is a fan of blind tasting for how to approach wines Believes the role of the critic is more than the tasting note - it’s to provide context on the region and the producer (which can’t be done with blind tasting) People promoting blind tasting are taking money from the trade, so Jeb believes they have to sell their process Impact of top scores Less impact today because so many great wines out there More great wines than ever before => lots of substitutes, even at 95+, 100 point scores Pathway for wineries to become iconic Make a consistently great wine, takes time Need to have wines tasted and reviewed by top publications Need to make enough so people can try it and get exposure globally Score inflation and compression “I do think scores have increased” Believes there’s less compression - more critics are using the whole scale (up to 100) with more highly rated wines than in the past The format of score presentation now gives the appearance of score inflation Scores used as email marketing will only be high ones Most people access scores online via a score database, sorting by the highest score vs. having to read through a printed document Scores used for large reports to give delineation between wines 100 point wines for Jeb must have the following: Hedonistic pleasure Intellectual pleasure Intensity of aromas and flavors Age ability Singularity (they stand out) Barrel samples Similar to evaluating a young wine, can still be useful Range ratings for barrel samples are important because the scores can come out before the wines are released, giving subscribers guidance for purchasing JD’s subscriber base Don’t have a lot of demographic info on subscribers Pretty serious about wine, mostly collectors ~80% US-based, so CA wines are important to them User-generated reviews CellarTracker - useful because you can follow individuals Aggregate reviews are not useful; “0 x 100 = 0” Hosted on Acast. 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	More Voices in Wine w/ Esther Mobley, San Francisco Chronicle	11 Aug 2021	00:46:53
Esther Mobley, Wine Critic for the San Francisco Chronicle, thought writing would be more of a passion than a career. Yet, she’s one of two full-time wine writers for newspapers in the US. Esther discusses how being at a newspaper differs from a wine magazine, the changing wine critic landscape, the impact of wine scoring, and even gives some tips for budding wine bloggers and influencers. She believes that “More voices are great” when it comes to wine writing and celebrates when there’s a new wine writer hired. A unique voice and angle in our discussion of the evolving landscape for wine critics. Detailed Show Notes: Esther’s background She went to Napa to work harvest after college (for fun) Worked in restaurants and wine shops Landed an internship at Wine Enthusiast She got a job at the Wine Spectator in the editorial department She was an English major, wanted to be a writer Role as the SF Chron’s wine critic Plays both a new reporter and critic role News reporter - cover local news for a major industry (wine) Critic - look at wine through an evaluative lens Doesn’t score wines, writes more narrative reviews of wines “Wine of the Week” column - focus on one bottle of wine The decline of newspaper wine writers Might be only 2 full time in the US - Eric Asimov (New York Times) & Esther The local newspaper business model has shifted All used to have a wine columnist, and no one goes to the local newspaper now to learn about wine Newspaper wine writers have evolved - more local news-oriented, provides a view on something important to the Bay Area Everyone works online now Chronicle business model Profitable and hiring a lot of people Focused on subscribers vs. advertisement - would rather have fewer people read an article, but more subscribers Not trying to be a national publication Newspapers vs. magazines Magazines score wines, publish less frequently traditionally Newspapers - more news, though Wine Spectator also doing more wine news Differences are narrowing between the two Wine Critic landscape “More voices are great” The barrier of entry is lower than it used to be A lot of people want to know “who’s the next Parker” -> probably will never be a next Parker More people covering niches w/in wine SF Chronicle / Esther - cover mostly CA wine, telling the story of Bay Area wines, enables the telling of interesting stories Wine Influencers Some concern over the blurring lines between sponsored and editorial content Some people may feel they have made wine too democratic Esther believes most criticism against influencers is sexist -> influencers just doing the best to succeed in their medium Influencers working w/in social media algorithms to get their success Wine Scoring Anecdotally hear score remain important on the wholesale level - to sell wines to restaurants / retail buyers “Wine of the Week” articles - have heard this does lead to some wines selling out at retail (publishes where wine is available, but sells out after it comes out online but before it hits print) -> recommendations from trusted sources still matter Blind tasting - if someone is scoring wine, this is the best way to do it Wine Spectator - tastes blind, includes a “ringer” in every flight (a wine that the critic has scored before) to see if scores are consistent Critics vs. Publications SF Chronicle makes Esther’s name more public The Wine Advocate invested more in the personal name of critics vs. Wine Spectator less so Average consumers don’t know the difference between wine critics and their palates Stories that are interesting to Esther “Things that don’t make sense on their face” E.g., Andy Beckstoffer giving away grapes for free from a Lake County vineyard Renaissance Winery in Sierra Foothills - a doomsday cult that craft a world-class wine Advice to wine bloggers/influencers Read a lot of good, non-wine writing (e.g., The New Yorker, The Atlantic) Don’t assume the reader has much knowledge of wine (e.g., don’t use too many technical terms, wine jargon) User-Generated Content wine forums (e.g., CellarTracker, Vivino) Wine Berserkers - “it’s its own thing,” like a Reddit for wine, very knowledgeable people on it In beer, e.g., Untappd, Rate Beer - are taken more seriously than wine General problem - no one’s figured out how to talk about wine on the internet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	The Wine Critic Evolution w/ William Kelley, The Wine Advocate	04 Aug 2021	00:51:54
The retirement of Robert Parker marked a major change in the role of the wine critic that had been building over time. William Kelley, Reviewer of Burgundy, Champagne, English Sparkling, and Madeira for The Wine Advocate (“TWA”), gives us his thoughts on how the wine critic landscape is changing and why, the impact wine critics have on the market, and the role of TWA. Dig deep into the mind of a wine critic on this episode of XChateau. Detailed Show Notes: William’s background He ran a tasting group at Oxford for 3 years He was initially planning on becoming an academic He ended up working a harvest in California in 2015 Makes wine - Chenin Blanc in California (beginning in 2015), in Chambolle Musigny (beginning in 2018) Pitched a piece to Decanter and ended up becoming the North American and Burgundy editor 2019 - got a call from The Wine Advocate (“TWA”) and became a reviewer there Currently researching a book on Burgundy that would not be an encyclopedia-style of book The evolving role of the wine critic Two main trends changing the role of the wine critic The scale of the wine world is bigger, and no one can taste everything anymore (which was possible when Robert Parker started) -> creates the need for more reviewers, more specialization, and critics living in the regions they cover The explosion of the value of fine wine - most people can’t afford luxury wines today, this makes reviewers of high-end wines dependent on the producers, whereas Parker used to buy the wines and retain the consumer perspective More small niches are being created in wine media Subscription models are still doing well (including at TWA) Lifestyle writing is moving beyond the aspirational and anchored more in reality Most wine media jobs are occupied by people who’ve been doing it for a long time (little mobility, ability for new voices to come up) Many people in wine media don’t make enough to make a living People doing blogs are likely to go to mainstream media as people begin to retire Critic influence Consumers spending a lot of money on wine still care which critics score the wines Retailers generally show the highest scores, regardless of who the critic is Strong/historic brands are “immune” to critic criticism High scores (e.g. - 100 points) still matter Cedric Bouchard - gave a 2008 100 points He wanted to show there’s no glass ceiling for wines This gave Bouchard feedback and recognition for his growing practices, which were counter the Champagne norm Egly-Ouriet, already an established top grower Champagne, said his business increased 33% after getting 100 points 100 point scores can be a disruptor of the traditional hierarchy The business model issue with wine media - critics sell the wine but don’t get a stake in the profit TWA’s role in the wine world Scores are needed in the industry to sell wine TWA has become like the “Standard & Poor’s” of the wine world Parker also sold a lifestyle - he had charisma, led a lifestyle of opening great wines and at well, including at events with clients Recently launched new sustainability features A filter for organic and biodynamic wines (for all wines) Nominations for producers who work sustainably in an exemplary manner (a small set of producers) William reviews ~5,000 wines/year and gets to choose which wines to review Pathways to becoming an iconic brand today Bizot never got 100 points, still an iconic, cult brand Need the right confluence of market dynamics Score inflation There has been some score inflation Score compression is a bigger problem - scores are less differentiated This partly has to do with how people buy wine (e.g., they only buy 90+ point wines) New platforms that have an impact on the market Instagram and WeChat are platforms that move the market CellarTracker, Wine Berserkers are niche and don’t move the market as much Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Bringing Wine to Life w/ Jacki Strum, Wine Enthusiast Media	28 Jul 2021	00:46:48
Growing up around wine has not dimmed the passion Jacki Strum brings to her work as President of Wine Enthusiast Media. In the first of a series on the evolution of the wine critic, Jacki tells us about how Wine Enthusiast has expanded its platform from print into web, social media, podcasts, and even Tik Tok. As well as how they assess wines (blindly) as a wine critic and how those ratings are used to help people buy wine. We really get under the hood of the wine media business in this episode of XChateau! Detailed Show Notes: Jacki's background She grew up in wine (her parents founded Wine Enthusiast in the late 1970s) Studied wine through WSET Level 3 Digital media in wine & spirits background Founded Thirsty Nest - a wine & spirits gift registry platform, media, and commerce hybrid that is part of Wine Enthusiast Wine media in the late 1980s Wine Enthusiast (“WE”) magazine founded in 1988, Robert Parker wrote for WE for a while Wine Spectator was around, but not much else “French Paradox” on 60 Minutes (1991) about the health benefits of wine was the catalyst for the entire wine industry in the US, which helped the magazine take off as well WE media platform Print publication - still successful Did well during Covid as people were sick of screens and hard news Website - growing exponentially Houses the entire database of wine reviews Buying guide went “through the roof” during Covid due to an increase in online wine sales 65% of visitors go to the website to buy wine Social media Instagram - now the biggest platform, easy to shop, easy to comment Facebook - still important, but fading vs. Instagram Twitter Testing Tik Tok - believes will be the future of educational content Podcast - done well and testing a few other series Newsletter / email - still core Beverage Industry Enthusiast - trade/industry news grew a lot during Covid WE company motto - “We bring wine to life” It plays into the journalism approach - including the lifestyle elements of wine Ratings help people buy wine Core demographic - “the curious wine consumer,” which is more of a mindset vs. an age or gender Wine criticism and ratings Taste completely blind Taste w/in 1 region Advertisers have no say on ratings Do points still sell wine? 100 points or Wine of the Year can still build a brand Most ratings are a powerful tool in the marketing toolset, but just a piece of the puzzle Certain critic/magazine names still carry more weight than others More at the bottom of the marketing funnel - helps close the sale At the top of the funnel - general brand awareness - WE builds partnerships with brands for marketing, including various content and social influencers WE Buying Guide (ratings) It comes up 1st on Google, which gives it more credibility Review ~25,000 wines per year Path to building a wine brand today Scores are still helpful and free Need to build out the marketing stack and figure out the storytelling - start with social media The catalog did well during Covid - people needed wine storage, upgraded glassware, etc.… Return on ad spend with WE Partners wanted to get closer to the sale, have become more ROI driven Implemented digital shopping carts to track purchases Key metrics for ROAS (return on ad spend) Email acquisition Wine sales Impressions Podcasts - can use discount codes to track the impact The natural feeling of podcasts make an ad feel more real Webinars did well for email acquisition Any campaigns that boosted DTC sales or signups did well Digital advertising has grown a lot during Covid Lots of influencer marketing - leverage 40 Under 40 contacts, usually people WE has written about Often custom build ad partnership plans with clients WE Catalog provides the richest database in the industry to create good ad targeting Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Charting the Wine Media Landscape w/ Natalie MacLean, nataliemaclean.com	21 Jul 2021	00:44:15
Natalie MacLean, a podcaster and writer based in Ottawa, Canada, has been bringing people into her wine world for over 20 years. With two books, a newsletter with over 300,000 subscribers, a mobile app, and the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, Natalie’s main focus is on perfecting her food and wine pairing courses - The Wine Smart Course and an upcoming course on wine and cheese. Natalie tells us about how she built her personal brand, the most effective marketing channels she’s used, and where her primary revenue drivers are. If you’re interested in navigating how to be successful in the world of wine, Natalie’s journey provides key insights. Detailed Show Notes: Natalie’s background Has an MBA, did consumer packaged goods (“CPG”) marketing at P&G and tech She took a sommelier course and fell in love with wine, as a full-bodied experience Started as a writer - cold-called editors, then wrote books, and now publishes a podcast - Unreserved Wine Talk She didn’t drink alcohol until she was in her late 20’s Brunello was the wine that got her into wine Current focus - online food and wine pairing courses Focused on 2 courses only - believes in doubling down on the Unique Selling Proposition (“USP”), wants to perfect courses vs. add more #1 - The Wine Smart Course Lifetime access to materials 5 modules Pre-recorded videos (on-demand, all “snackable” - 7-9 minutes in length, 70-75 videos) Live webinars via Zoom - bi-weekly tastings #2 - Beta: Wine & Cheese Pairing Appeals to both consumers and hospitality and trade professionals b/c of the focus on food and wine pairing It starts with food, then pairs the wine Leverages some research from Tim Hanni, MW Free wine and food pairing guide Core audience - vast, similar to the general population Newsletter / website 300k email subscribers - free to join, C$3/mo for access to wine reviews Has pairing tips (more depth in courses), a lot of free videos It started as an email to friends and family Uses LCBO pricing Wine scores People use them as a shorthand for quality, to calculate the quality to price ratio (“QPR”) People requested it, and now it’s a service for readers Passion is writing Mobile app Free to download Scans front label and bar codes Integrated liquor store pricing and inventory across the country (Canada) via API’s to provincial liquor control boards Features - virtual cellar, wishlist, buy lists US wines in Canada CA, WA, OR, NY well represented #1 export market for US wines During Covid - premium wines (C$20+) have done well, benefiting US wines Canadian wine palate - driven more towards cool climate wines, Canada’s heritage is beer and whiskey Marketing Natalie’s brand Built over 20 years, started the website in 2000 Started with the books (Red, White, and Drunk All Over; Unquenchable) - published by Randomhouse, book tour, Amazon’s bestseller list - led to broad reach and TV and other media appearances and “exploded” newsletter subscribers Podcast a core channel now Podcast listeners stay with you, and most listen 80-100% through Podcast listeners and paid online courses have the strongest overlap Leverage and cross-purpose content to broaden the reach to many channels Podcast videos for FB Live Social media - gets people over to newsletter or free wine and food pairing guide, low commitment, usually not paying Nothing beats email Always strives to deliver value first - drive to something free (e.g., free class/webinar), then promotes paid courses Main revenue drivers #1 - online courses #2 - wine review subscriptions #3 - online advertising Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	What People Want from Fine Wine w/ Pauline Vicard, ARENI Global	14 Jul 2021	00:49:51
Getting at the heart of what consumers want is essential for any business, but a vastly understudied area in the world of fine wine. Pauline Vicard, Executive Director of ARENI Global, follows up her interview on Episode 28 and shares with us their latest research on the fine wine consumer - “The Future of Fine Wine Consumers 2021.” We explore the role of fine wine merchants, how and why consumers buy fine wine, and the key attributes of fine wine brands. The work covers the US, UK, China, and Hong Kong, and we discover the differences between consumers in each location. We even touch on diversity and inclusion in the fine wine world. An impactful, cornerstone interview to better understand the mindset of the fine wine consumer, a must listen! Detailed Show Notes: Pauline was the guest of Episode 28, where she shared findings from the 2019 research on the Fine Wine Consumer ARENI Global background ARENI is a global research and action institute dedicated to the future of Fine Wine. Creating conversation platforms for the Fine Wine ecosystem, ARENI brings together critical thinkers, from iconic Fine Wine producers to leading academics and business leaders, resulting in a well-researched, global and multi-disciplinary approach to a world undergoing change. ARENI studies six main forces of change and regularly publishes on: The Fine Wine Consumer: A Customer-Centric Approach Changing Societies: Fine Wine Evolving Social framework The Digital Economy and Transformative technology Access to market: Towards new commercial routes Sustainability 2.0: Acting now, thinking long term Money: An Essential Force of Conflict Wants to break traditional silos to share information and collaborate, including with other industries Organizes think tank platforms and conducts research studies ARENI publishes a bi-monthly, free newsletter. To keep in touch with their research, publications, and events, sign up. Fine Wine Consumer Research 2019 - was more qualitative research 2020 - “The Future of Fine Wine Consumers 2021” more quantitative research Studied fine wine consumers in the US, UK, China, and Hong Kong Definition of Fine Wine Complex, balanced, potential to age Produces emotions, reflects the winemaker’s intentions Environmentally, socially, and financially sustainable (new part of the definition) Price is not in the definition but used price brackets from La Place de Bordeaux for quantitative studies (€30+, €150+, €450+) Consumers perceptions of fine wine Perceive it more as brands/chateaux The average fine wine consumer can name 2.5 wineries, most common ones - Lafite, Latour, and Petrus Does not associate fine wine as much with country, grape variety, or type of wine US consumers >35 know more brands than those <35 Fine wine merchants Consumers very loyal to merchants, but not exclusive, tend to source from several Have high expectations of merchants, want them to bring a diversity of wines and recommend new things Key attributes: high customer service, pristine condition of wines, guarantee against fraud, want access to allocations and exclusive events, and easy delivery Want access to the merchant through diverse communication channels but still have the human/personal touch How consumers choose a fine wine #1 - vintage (UK, China, Hong Kong) Burgundy buyers use both vintage and producer Scores are still important, but most people don’t follow specific critics or guide books, but they still use the scores as validation of the quality of the wine Price is not a key driver #3 factor - grape variety The reputation of the brand and winery important Least important factor - celebrity or influencer recommendations Storytelling Not as important as was expected, the wine’s story is not relevant for every fine wine consumer Some want wines because of their status or what tastes the best Why consumers buy fine wine Intimate consumption was bigger than expected - wine as a treat for self and/or partner (US, UK) Special occasions, formal social events (Hong Kong, China) Gifting (China) Formal wine tastings (UK) Business occasions (China) Food and wine pairing (particularly in China) Fine Wine Consumer demographics UK/US - 70% men, 30% women China/Hong Kong - 50% men, 50% women Women want to buy luxury Millennial women are an important market More young consumers (<35) Fine wine investors Non-collectors that invest mostly go through a 3rd party Look at it as another financial asset, rarely take ownership of wine Top attributes for fine wine brands #1 - the capacity to age as wine evolves with time #2 - high ratings from wine critics (the UK the lowest for this) The reputation of a region of origin and producer UK/US - complexity of taste China/Hong Kong - scarcity important Don’t really think of sustainability - assume wine is sustainable Trade does think of sustainability - they are gatekeepers for consumers Diversity and inclusion “Fine wine is whiteness” was discovered in research - references to colonial terms for many countries (e.g., India, US) The industry has little to lose by having more diversity Diversity issues and systemic difficulties are different for different countries China - diversity more focused on gender vs. race To access the full report, become a member of ARENI. For more information: pauline@areni.global Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Marketing to Millennials w/ Damien Wilson, Sonoma State University	07 Jul 2021	00:37:07
Part two of our interview with Damien Wilson, Hamel Family Chair of Wine Business at Sonoma State University, focuses on what wineries can do to align their brand, marketing messages, and how they sell wine to Millennials. From hospitality to various marketing channels, with social media, Damien provides examples of what works and tips on what to do. This episode also includes a “lightning round” where Damien and Peter discuss some of the major trends in wine marketing. Detailed Show Notes: Millennial Wine Buying - tips for wineries Limits on brand loyalty/retention mean wineries need to make more customer acquisition High price points will put off younger consumers Low-end wine brands (e.g., Charles Shaw) are not targeting Millennials well - they appear to be more about consumption (e.g., Carlo Rossi jug wine, Bag in a Box brand) vs. Millennial values Seltzer likely hitting a peak as the category is starting to fracture and fragment with many new brands and brand extensions Hospitality best practices We need to be better at the digital era Wine industry good at talking about the product and quality (e.g., winemaking, terroir, product characteristics) but needs to know how to get people to the glass before what’s in the glass Responses from wineries on social media are very slow or unresponsive Good examples Jason Haas of Tablas Creek in Paso Robles - very responsive, got back to Damien in 10 minutes of tagging, Jason responds himself Nicole Rolet of Chene Bleu Randall Graham - remains relevant but admits to not figuring out how to make money from social media Macrostie - has 12 different locations in their facility with different experiences - creates a reason for people to come back Tagged 27 wineries on a trip to Paso Robles, and only 2 got back to him (1 of which was Tablas Creek) Automated monitoring can help - so people get notified when activity occurs Millennials have a strong attachment to people behind the brands and ones that reflect their values Millennials ask questions, and they will tell you what they like Marketing channels that work Social media Retail with smaller producers/experiences (e.g., Whole Foods showcases smaller producers and is more experiential shopping) Marketing Lightning Round w/ Damien and Peter Augmented Reality - “brilliant” according to Damien, cost of adoption is falling, e.g., 19 Crimes and Snoop Dog Rose Natural / “Clean” wines - a way to premiumize lower-end wines with marketing; natural wine suffers from lack of consistency, making it harder to adopt; Clean wines - unsure if success is related to clean or celebrities that back them Low/No Alcohol / No sugar wines - could work if they get people into the wine category, likely more a niche long-term Celebrity wines - will likely grow but needs to be authentic - e.g., Kim Kardashian was behind a vodka brand but didn’t drink, which turned people off of the brand Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Accelerating Wine Sales w/ Chemistry & AI w/ Kat Axelsson & Charles Slocum, Tastry	05 Jan 2025	00:58:03
Having “taught a computer how to taste” and using that data to help winemakers improve their processes, Tastry has turned to leveraging AI and their consumer preferences and wine chemistry databases to help wineries sell wine. Katerina Axelsson, CEO, and Charles Slocum, Chief Business Officer, discuss Tastry’s Sales Accelerator Ecosystem, which includes the Wine & Consumer Insights Report, which gives wineries, distributors, and retailers tools to help them sell more wine. Tastry has provided an example report for listeners. Detailed Show Notes: Tastry overview - see Ep 157 for a deeper dive Tagline - “taught a computer how to taste” It has two unique data sets - wine chemistry, US consumer taste preferences Helps improve winemaking, predict and react to changing consumer preferences Works with wineries, retailers, and distributors Tastry commercialization history 1st 2 years - establish trust with winemakers Last year - focus on helping sell wines Sales Accelerator Ecosystem Takes data from 3 areas (winery input metadata, wine chemistry, Tasty validated wine market data) to feed accelerator (AI system) Consists of Wine & Consumer Insights (“WCI”) report, Sales Accelerator platform app, & integrations into other platforms (e.g., e-RNDC) Has AI search and chat functionality Salespeople use data to sell to on/off-premise accounts Sometimes, consumer-facing in-retailer displays WCI - 2-page report to help sell wines Used to train salespeople, it can be a leave-behind P1 - for the category buyer; P2 - for servers, staff to educate them WCI Components: Top left - bottle shot, label zoom in (helps for retention); name of wine; varietal; appellation; price (what it is actually sold for in the market); wine category (AI curates category to be highest scoring on Tastry score) Category Score - 200 point scale, 100 is average for the category Not a critic score >100 is better than the average, <100 less than average in terms of expected performance in its category against the Tastry consumer preference database (e.g., Cupcake Pinot Gris got a 181 score) Percentile rank - e.g., 129 = performs 29% above avg 10,000s wines in database out of ~160k wines in the US Never <15 wines in a category Creating a new WCI for more rare and unique wines Lower priced wines, terroir matters less; higher prices matter more Tastry Notes - AI-generated tasting notes, breaks into average and more experienced drinkers Segmented Consumer Appeal - insights into buyers of wine; if there’s at least an 85% match (roughly equates to Vivino’s 3.9-4.0 score or 88-90 critic score), consumers tend to notice they like the wine and will buy it again Flavor profile (p1) - e.g., fruitiness, oakiness, sweetness P2 - flavor profile (major flavors), retail talking points, food pairings - used as a training tool to help people sell wine Launching a new page for marketing teams to update data Retailer recommender - has shown +3-12% sales in 90 days Tastry Pricing - $1,580/year subscription, $370/wine analyzed How Tastry can help in the current macro environment Creating low / no alcohol wines Marketing tools (Sales Accelerator) - addressing younger audiences (e.g., pairings with kale salad and frozen pizza rolls) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Millennials & Wine w/ Damien Wilson, Sonoma State University	30 Jun 2021	00:42:46
With values and attitudes formed around the turn of the 21st century, Millennials want fulfilling careers, are more into environmental and social causes, and grew up in the social media era. Damien Wilson, Hamel Family Chair of Wine Business at Sonoma State University, explains who Millennials are, what drives their buying habits, and the brand loyalty of the group. This is the first part of a two-part series on marketing to Millennials. Detailed Show Notes: Damien’s background Mid 1980’s - worked in grocery retail in wine & spirits Early 1990’s - worked in hospitality as a wine steward Mid 1990’s wine sales rep Completed 4 degrees in the wine business 2007 - left the University of South Australia and Australia overall with a Ph.D. in Wine Business Research areas include: History and usage of screw caps and natural cork Consumer behavior - consumption patterns that lead to wine consumption Digital marketing, tourism Defining Millennials Generational cohorts - they may change their name as certain experiences become the dominant characteristic of their values Each cohort is distinct because of their experiences, which have information and directive influences E.g., Silent (formerly Great) Generation - values were set during war years Baby Boomers - the boom in population growth post-war Gen X (used to be called latch key generation) Gen Z (1997 onwards) - have no real memory of September 11th (2001), were initially called the “i -generation” because they were attached to their iPhones Millennials Originally set from the late ’70s (as early as 1976) to the early 80s birth years Current definition (from Pew Research Center and Brookings Institute) - 1981 - 1996 Attitudes and values formed during the decades around the turn of the 21st century (1990s-2000s) Millennial Values and Attitudes Want a fulfilling career vs. a stable or secure career Exhibit stronger support for social and environmental issues Have the largest perceptual gap of their long-term vision vs. their initial reality - they had huge expectations of adulthood and were hit with reality (you start at the bottom) and the Global Financial Crisis Lived in the social media era - see the extremes (people curated perfect lives) Millennial Wine Buying Wine buying is tightly correlated with economic status Generational buying Silent Generation - marked by frugality, drank less wine because it was more expensive Baby Boomers - expressed interest in wine and shares with others, have been the driver behind the recent success of the wine industry, wine as a relatively inexpensive way to show success and luxury (e.g., Silver Oak success) Gen X - eschews traditional brands, tried different things (e.g., led to the Rhone Rangers movement) Millennials - focus more on enjoyment and the collective vision of what wine means for their generation want individualism, but also consume brands that are more representative of their group Humor, innovative approaches, bohemian, off-kilter brands can be successful Willing to accept something that reflects values and intent, even if not total wine specific, whereas the prior generation was more focused on the wine itself) Receptive to sales and marketing messages as long as it is authentic to the brand Buying pattern formative period in teen and early adult years, particularly for aesthetic consumption and will likely persist over time Millennial brand loyalty Brand loyalty starts with awareness - awareness of anything trumps lack of awareness which makes consumers start with a degree of brand loyalty The pattern is repeated until people gain more comfort with products and they move to brand extensions New wine consumers (e.g., Millennials) are still new to the category, still just learning what wine is Proud of and support brands that support them (e.g., Supreme - streetwear); wines they drink are wines that support them and have brand loyalty to them (e.g., Buena Vista, Chateau Diana) Perception of brand loyalty may be due to low wine club signup rate Millennial wine spending habits Spend 2x more than the grocery store average on wine Highest spend per unit of any generation (high $20s - low $30s/bottle) $10-15/bottle is the sweet spot in grocery/retail Awareness key to buying wine Napa has the greatest awareness of any US wine-growing region, which helps Iconic wines to still do well due to brand awareness Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Discovering Zinfandel w/ Carole Meredith, UC Davis & Lagier Meredith	23 Jun 2021	00:36:12
One of the world’s leading grape geneticists, Carole Meredith, Professor Emerita of UC Davis and owner of Lagier Meredith winery, has spent decades identifying and profiling grape varieties. It was so interesting that the interview has been split into two episodes. Episode 55 covers the background of Ampelography and DNA profiling as well as the definitions of key terms such as variety, clone, and hybrid. In addition, this episode features the stories of how she uncovered the history of Zinfandel (aka - Primitivo, Crljenak Kaštelanski, and Tribidrag) with Croatian researchers and how wineries use DNA profiling in wine marketing. Detailed Show Notes: Discovering Zinfandel Zinfandel has a long history in California. People assumed it was a native California grape, but it is a Vitis Vinifera, so it must come from Europe People suspected Croatia, but no evidence In the 1970’s - people noticed that Primitivo in Italy’s Puglia looked like Zinfandel, and it was confirmed they are the same grape variety Italians said the grape is not Italian and came from Dalmatia (modern-day Croatia) Croatia They looked at Plavac Mali - a popular red grape in Croatia. It looks similar to Zinfandel, but is not the same, but related Mike Grgich of Grgich Hills Winery made some introductions to Croatia, but those were dead ends 1997 - Ivan Pejic of the University of Zagreb reached out and wanted to understand Croatian grapes better After 3 years of gathering samples, they found it in a Croatian mixed vineyard (a grape named Crljenak Kaštelanski) 2001 - At the Natural History Museum in Split, Croatia - found a specimen called Tribidrag that looked like Zinfandel Tribidrag was an important grape as far back as the 1300s 2011 - Croatian research group was able to extract DNA from dead leaves in the Split museum and confirm it was Zinfandel Proves Zinfandel is an ancient grape with historical importance Tribidrag is not an approved varietal name for wine in the US. Lagier Meredith uses it as a fanciful name for their label Lagier Meredith sells mostly to their mailing list so that they can explain the history and the name to their customers Ridge calls a wine Tribidrag, growing vines from Croatian cuttings, and wants to partner with Carole to get TTB to have Primitivo and Tribidrag as Zinfandel synonyms US TTB shows Zinfandel and Primitivo as separate varieties California Zinfandel producers opposed having Primitivo be a synonym because they didn’t want competition from lots of cheap Italian Primitivo EU wine label regulations list Zinfandel and Primitivo as synonyms 2004 - US & EU sign an agreement on wine labeling to respect each other's laws, so now Italians can label their wines Zinfandel and export them to the US DNA typing - business impacts It has been a boost for Croatian producers, put them on the map, and now a wine tourism destination with people even visiting the vineyard where Zinfandel was discovered Mostly done out of research institutions Foundation Plant Services at UC Davis has a commercial DNA typing service - costs ~$300 / sample Some producers (e.g., Schrader) use clones on labels - used as a distinction, helps to tell the story for marketing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
	Grape DNA Profiling w/ Carole Meredith, UC Davis & Lagier Meredith	16 Jun 2021	00:40:17
One of the world’s leading grape geneticists, Carole Meredith, Professor Emerita of UC Davis, and owner of Lagier Meredith winery, has spent decades identifying and profiling grape varieties. It was so interesting that the interview has been split into two episodes, this one about the background of Ampelography and DNA profiling as well as the definitions of key terms such as variety, clone, and hybrid. The second episode features how she uncovered the history of Zinfandel and how wineries use DNA profiling in wine marketing. Detailed Show Notes: Carole’s background Worked part-time at a retail nursery, got into plant genetics, and wanted to be a flower breeder Changed to doing a Ph.D. on tomato genetics at UC Davis Worked in biotech for a few years on cotton, corn, and soybeans She went into grapes because a position opened up at UC Davis Ampelography - the study of grape identification before DNA testing Grape varieties identified by their leaves, which vary distinctly, not by their fruit, which look similar Before DNA testing, outside experts in Ampelography would often disagree with each other on grape identification The upside of ampelography is that it’s very fast. Today grapes are usually first identified by ampelography and then confirmed with DNA testing DNA testing for grapes Started ~1991 Looks at segments of DNA to look at specific markers Need a minimum of 6 markers to identify a variety and more to establish variety parentage Vitis Microsatellite Consortium - a group of academics that came together to develop DNA markers for grapes In 1-2 years, developed 100s of markers Grape variety definition - used differently in trade or by scientists Trade definition - grapes that make different wines (e.g., Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris) are different varieties Scientific definition - a cultivated variety that goes back to a single seedling, scientifically, Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris are clonal variants of a single variety Clones - variations within a variety Clones are subtypes that have developed over time Usually have something to do with the fruit (e.g., color variants like Traminer vs. Gewurztraminer, Pinot Noir/Blanc/Gris) Clones arise through somatic mutations of the variety Older the variety (e.g., Pinot, Syrah) - more likely to have more clones Young varieties (e.g., Cabernet Sauvignon) have fewer clones (<400 years old, likely a natural seedling in the early 1700s, and likely singled out to do late budding, which provided spring frost protection) Some varietals (e.g., Pinot) are more likely to have mutations People need to notice a difference (e.g., looser clusters which can have less bunch rot, early ripening, which avoids rainfall during harvest, or higher sugar levels for grapes like Riesling in cooler areas) and be preferentially chosen to plant new vineyards ENTAV - an institution in France that systematically identifies and registers clones In Chile, Jean-Michel Boursiquot, one of the world’s top ampelographers, identified that Chileans were calling Carmenere Merlot Grape Families A term with no scientific meaning E.g., Muscat - “muscat” is a type of flavor; all current varieties likely descendants of a couple of ancient varieties Every variety is descended from 2 parent varieties Hybrids Genetic/scientific definition of a hybrid is an offspring of 2 different parents of the same OR different species (e.g., Cabernet Sauvignon is technically a hybrid of Cabernet Franc and Sauvignon Blanc) Interspecific hybrid or cross is an offspring of parents from different species (e.g., hybrids of American and European grape varieties used to try and combat phylloxera) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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