The GTM Engineer Podcast – Details, episodes & analysis

In today's episode, I chat with Jordan Lange, founder at Axon, about building a product that solves the unsexy but showstopping problem underneath all GTM engineering: CRM data quality. Axon acts as an observability layer for HubSpot, identifying messy, duplicate, and missing records that break downstream automations—then cleaning them automatically. 

We explore a real example where a Zapier automation was completely falling apart because the product was sending clean domain strings while the CRM data had www, HTTPS, and query params attached, meaning there was no shared key to join on across 437,000 records—a problem Axon fixed in hours. Jordan's analogy: putting olive oil in a Ferrari. The GTM engineer is the Ferrari, but if the fuel going in is dirty data, nothing moves. His prediction: GTM engineers are more important than ever as contact data gets commoditized and companies need people who know how to activate it—and right now is the window to build serious infrastructure using relatively cheap AI tools before those tools get expensive as dependency on them grows. Jordan shares his path as the first RevOps hire at Gorgias, scaling from $10M to $70M ARR, watching CRM cleanup slowly eat his entire job as automations multiplied and data quality became the single biggest blocker to growth—quitting to start a RevOps agency, immediately hitting the same wall at his first client, and realizing the problem was unavoidable wherever GTM automation existed, so he built Axon to solve it. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:21) What Axon Does: CRM Observability and Automatic Data Cleanup for HubSpot 
(02:01) Real Example: 437,000 Records Fixed After a Domain Mismatch Broke All Automations 
(04:09) The Ferrari Analogy: GTM Engineers Need Clean Fuel or Nothing Moves 
(05:36) Onboarding Process: Two-Minute Form, One-Hour Analysis, Same-Day Portal Access 
(07:14) Jordan's Journey: First RevOps Hire at Gorgias, $10M to $70M ARR 
(08:51) How CRM Cleanup Slowly Ate His Entire Job as Automations Multiplied 
(09:17) Quitting to Start a RevOps Agency, Hitting the Same Wall at Client One 
(10:06) Building Axon After Realizing the Problem Was Unavoidable Everywhere 
(12:49) Future Predictions: GTM Engineers Are Most Valuable Right Now, AI Window Is Open 
(15:00) The Human Detection Problem: AI Spam Whiplash and Why Human Voice Still Matters

🔗 CONNECT WITH JORDAN
 
💻 Website 
👥 LinkedIn

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Johannes Fessler, founder at Rocksolidleadgeneration, about four years of specializing in e-commerce marketplaces—booking 39 meetings in six weeks for Allegro (Europe's largest online marketplace), signing up 67 sellers in three and a half months, and going on to work with Temu and Onbuy—while also running mindset coaching for agency owners through Agency Velocity. 

We explore his contrarian take on cold email: for Temu, he uses zero Clay, zero personalization, because when the offer is strong enough and the brand is known, relevance beats personalization every time—and irrelevant personalization ("I saw you went to Stanford") is worse than no personalization at all. He also makes the case that the industry is splitting in two directions—fully AI-automated and back-to-human writing—and that anyone who talks to AI daily can spot AI copy instantly, especially agency owners. Johannes shares his rock-bottom origin story: losing his cryo spa, his girlfriend, his car, and his flat, moving into a friend's pool house in Marbella, copy-pasting 50 emails a day before discovering SalesHandy, eventually sending 1,000 emails a day from two mailboxes in the wild west era, booking 250-300 attendees for a high-end e-com convention, and stumbling into the Allegro relationship through a chain of connections that led to becoming a Smartlead founding partner. His most direct advice: from 10k to 100k, the only difference is mindset and implementation—skills get you to 15k, but past that, if you're not doing the things that actually move the needle (cold email, LinkedIn DMs, posting content) because you're afraid of rejection or visibility, no tool will save you. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:22) What Rocksolidleadgeneration Does: E-Commerce Marketplace Specialization 
(01:03) Allegro Case Study: 39 Meetings in Six Weeks, 67 Sellers in Three Months 
(03:06) How Johannes Stumbled Into the E-Com Niche From Rock Bottom in Marbella 
(05:30) The Wild West Era: 1,000 Emails a Day From Two Mailboxes, Booking 250 Convention Attendees 
(07:33) Relevance vs Personalization: Why Temu Needs Zero Clay 
(09:33) The Industry Split: Fully AI vs Back-to-Human Writing 
(11:38) Offer Is King: If the Brand Is Known, Drop the Personalization Gimmicks 
(12:48) Multi-Channel Take: 1,000 Cold Emails Plus 20 LinkedIn DMs a Day Plus Daily Posts 
(14:15) The Mindset Gap: Why 10k to 100k Is Not a Skills Problem 
(15:29) Implementation Over Information: Same Courses, Same Coaches, Different Results

🔗 CONNECT WITH JOHANNES

👥 LinkedIn 
🎥 YouTube 
💻 Website 

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Clark Hess, GTM Engineer at Supio, about building the entire go-to-market data infrastructure from the ground up at a legal AI startup—handling Clay, Gong, CRM architecture, and database-building for a very specific TAM: plaintiff personal injury attorneys in the United States, roughly 60,000 total. 

We explore two initiatives: first, building custom scrapers to pull every personal injury firm in the country (since ZoomInfo coverage for this niche is thin), then running agents against each firm to identify the right contacts—giving Supio a complete picture of their TAM from nearly day one; and second, a cohort reporting project where Clark is piping Gong transcripts into Clay via webhooks, converting them into field values, creating custom CRM objects per call, and making it possible to analyze patterns across hundreds of calls at once—competitors mentioned, objections raised, deal signals—rather than reviewing transcripts one by one. His insight: combining first-party data from calls with first-party data scraped from prospect websites means you're building a picture of your market according to your own company, not a third-party data broker. His prediction: GTM engineering will become a household name as a career field, Clay is positioned to threaten CRM incumbents, and computer use agents getting good enough to operate Clay autonomously is the genuinely wild card nobody has a confident answer for—but right now the role creates undeniable impact and is only growing. Clark shares his path from political science major to SDR at legal marketing company Avvo, to startup OfferUp where he taught himself web scraping to outprosect his peers, to pivoting into RevOps after realizing he enjoyed finding people who wanted to say yes more than closing them, to getting laid off from his first RevOps role, to a year and a half of contracting in what is now called GTM engineering before Supio brought him on full-time. His advice: learn Clay, get operationally solid with CRM, and work for cheap or free in the beginning just to get reps—because once the numbers are behind you, the opportunities follow. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:21) What Clark Does at Supio: GTM Engineering for a Legal AI Startup 
(01:31) Cohort Reporting from Gong Transcripts: Webhooks, Clay, and Custom CRM Objects 
(03:30) Building a Complete TAM Database for 60K Personal Injury Attorneys Across the US 
(05:23) Why First-Party Data Beats Third-Party Brokers for Niche Local TAMs 
(06:52) Clark's Journey: Political Science to SDR to Teaching Himself Web Scraping 
(07:50) Pivoting from Sales to RevOps After Realizing He Liked Finding Yeses More Than Closing 
(08:50) Getting Laid Off, Going Independent, and Accidentally Becoming a GTM Engineer 
(09:35) Future Predictions: GTM Engineering as a Career Field, Clay Threatening CRM Incumbents 
(11:18) Computer Use Agents Operating Clay Autonomously: The Wild Card Nobody Can Predict 
(12:32) Advice: Learn Clay, Get Solid on CRM, Work Cheap to Get Reps Early

🔗 CONNECT WITH CLARK

👥 LinkedIn 

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Bill from SalesCaptain about building a go-to-market agency that prioritizes ROI over vanity metrics. 

We discuss his three-phase approach to launching outbound campaigns within 3-4 weeks, focusing on targeting, messaging, and infrastructure. Bill shares his perspective on the ongoing battle between AI and spam filters, explaining why message-market fit is becoming more critical as outbound gets more expensive. We explore creative campaign strategies, from scraping conference attendee apps to leveraging website visitor data with tools like RB2B, and discuss why volume still matters more than hyper-complex intent signals for most businesses. Bill also reveals his vision for the future of outbound, where BDRs focus on high-value interactions while automation handles first touches.

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:15) What SalesCaptain Does and Client Profile
(01:11) The Three-Phase Launch Process
(02:02) ICP vs Actual Customer Profile
(02:59) AI's Role in Data vs Copywriting
(04:04) The Four-Month Pilot and ROI Tracking
(06:11) Creative Campaign Examples and Intent Signals
(07:27) RPA and Conference Attendee Scraping
(09:19) Volume vs Creativity: The 10K-50K Sweet Spot
(12:08) Bill's Journey from Growth Hacker to Agency Founder
(14:18) Building a $1.5M Business with Cold Email
(16:09) Future Trends: List-First Strategy
(17:02) AI BDR for Real-Time Reply Management
(19:06) First Touch Automation and the Evolution of BDRs

🔗 CONNECT WITH BILL

👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Ben Reed, founder of RevyOps, about solving the data fragmentation problem that prevents GTM agencies from scaling beyond 5-10 clients. 

We explore the "yo-yo effect" that plagues agencies when they try to grow, and why the real constraint isn't sales but fulfillment and data operations. Ben shares his unconventional journey from philosophy major to oil & gas data platforms to building RevyOps, explaining how the same data aggregation challenges exist across industries. We discuss why agencies waste resources re-enriching the same contacts multiple times, the technical limitations of using Airtable or Supabase for large-scale GTM data, and how building a centralized "master record" can enable agencies to scale to 20-40 clients profitably. He explains why vertical specialization is the key to sustainable agency growth.

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Visits
(00:25) What RevyOps Does and Why
(01:16) The GTM Agency Scaling Problem
(02:42) The Yo-Yo Effect: Why Agencies Can't Scale
(03:53) Pick One Client Type and Master It
(05:23) The Problem Everyone Misses: Data Fragmentation
(08:17) Beanstalk Consulting Case Study
(09:54) Understanding Data Volume in Outbound
(11:05) Why Airtable and Supabase Don't Work at Scale
(16:13) BigQuery vs Postgres for GTM Data
(17:56) Ben's Journey: Philosophy to Oil & Gas to RevyOps
(24:18) Contact Information and Getting Started

🔗 CONNECT WITH BEN REED
 
👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Ben Holley from Cyft AI about building a comprehensive TAM of 20,000+ MSPs and why cold email should be treated as a private ad network rather than one-to-one sales outreach. 

Ben shares his multi-source list building strategy using BuiltWith, Clutch, and lookalike models, explaining why MSPs are notoriously difficult to find through traditional database searches. We discuss his straightforward messaging philosophy - that timing and relevance matter far more than personalization - illustrated by his own response to a sketchy cold email simply because it was timely. Ben reveals his biggest mistake as an SDR (spending 20 minutes crafting emails that landed in spam), his approach to handling deliverability challenges, and his vision for retargeting cold prospects through paid ad campaigns to create more efficient nurture funnels.

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:29) What Cyft AI Does and Target Market 
(01:10) Current GTM Strategy and Outreach Channels 
(02:38) List Building: Finding 20K MSPs Across Multiple Sources 
(05:12) Why MSPs Are Hard to Find in Databases 
(06:03) Cold Email and LinkedIn Campaign Strategy 
(07:21) Why Personalization Doesn't Matter as Much as Timing 
(09:06) Biggest Mistakes: Over-Researching and Wrong Mindset 
(10:41) Thinking of Cold Email as a Marketing Activity 
(12:00) Importance of Strong Website for Conversion 
(12:54) Solving Deliverability and Outlook Challenges 
(13:27) Future Plans: Retargeting Non-Converters with Paid Ads 
(14:20) Building Efficient Nurture Funnels Across Channels

🔗 CONNECT WITH BEN 

👥 LinkedIn 
💻 Website

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Mohan from Spring Drive about building modern B2B outbound systems that prioritize strategy over tactics. 

We explore his journey from BDR to agency founder, discussing how he discovered Clay over two years ago and why sales fundamentals matter more than fancy tech. Mohan shares a creative campaign that landed 28 meetings in the first month by scraping product data and using AI to craft hyper-personalized messages for B2B retail prospects. We dive into his "balanced theory" framework for competitive messaging, why most companies waste time on surface-level personalization, and how to think strategically about differentiation in crowded markets. Mohan also shares his predictions for the future of GTM, including the shift from data-based personalization to fully customized funnels and offers.

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:40) What Spring Drive Does and Client Focus 
(01:27) The First 30-60-90 Days Process 
(04:36) Creative Campaign: B2B Retail Case Study 
(09:08) Copywriting Philosophy and Hidden Objections 
(10:56) Balanced Theory: Competitive vs Good Messaging 
(14:50) Understanding Market Competition 
(15:07) Mohan's Journey from BDR to Founder 
(18:30) Why Sales Fundamentals Beat Pure Tech 
(23:05) Future of GTM: Personalized Funnels and Strategy 
(27:00) The Coming Dip in AI Adoption

🔗 CONNECT WITH MOHAN 

👥 LinkedIn 
💻 Website

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV 

🎥 YouTube Channel 
🐦 X (Twitter) 
📸 Instagram 
💻 Website 
👥 LinkedIn 
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Orestas, VP of Accounts at A-Sales, about running successful multi-channel outbound campaigns across Europe and globally. 

We explore their comprehensive approach that combines cold email, cold calling, and LinkedIn outreach, diving into how they've booked over 3,000 meetings by sending 5+ million emails. Orestas shares fascinating case studies, including their work with Google on account-based marketing campaigns targeting Fortune 5000 companies, and a field service management software campaign that generated 600 appointments in 8 months. We discuss the importance of industry-specific channel selection, the power of aged domains for Outlook deliverability, and why maintaining close feedback loops with clients is crucial for lead quality. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:23) What A-Sales Does and Services Offered
(01:30) First 30-60-90 Days Client Onboarding Process
(05:17) Google Account-Based Marketing Case Study
(06:45) Field Service Management Software Success Story
(09:19) Multi-Channel vs Single-Channel Approach
(10:12) Cold Calling for Local Business Industries
(11:35) Cold Email and LinkedIn for Commercial Clients
(12:37) Managing Outlook Deliverability Challenges
(13:21) Using Aged Domains for Better Inbox Rates
(14:09) Orestas's Journey into Sales and Lead Gen
(15:36) Building Case Studies and Social Proof
(17:24) Learning Clay, Instantly, and Other Tools
(18:47) Future of GTM and Outbound Space
(21:10) Where to Connect with Orestas

🔗 CONNECT WITH ORESTAS

👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I chat with Rishabh Gupta, Product Lead at Partao and freelance GTM engineer, about building foundational outbound systems for early-stage startups. 

We dive deep into his approach to GTM engineering, exploring how he discovered that email-only campaigns don't work and why multi-channel outreach (email, calls, SMS, WhatsApp) is critical for Fortune 500 targets. Rishabh shares his journey from growth marketer to GTM engineer, explaining how his technical background (biomedical engineer turned software developer) helped him master Clay workflows and API integrations. We discuss the challenges of narrowing target customer personas, the importance of lead scoring with multiple data sources, and why GTM engineering is really just a subset of growth marketing. Rishabh also shares his vision for the future, predicting that GTM will become fully agentic with multiple small agents managed by a master orchestrator. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards
(00:21) What Rishabh Does and Client Types
(00:57) The 30-60-90 Day GTM Process
(01:45) Case Study: Multi-Channel Approach for B2B SaaS
(02:59) Why Email-Only Strategies Fail
(03:48) GCC Setup Service Case Study
(04:26) Rishabh's Journey into GTM Engineering
(06:19) Technical Background and Getting Started
(07:20) GTM Engineering vs Growth Marketing
(07:51) Future of GTM: Agentic Systems
(09:00) Closing and Contact Information

🔗 CONNECT WITH RISHABH

 👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website 

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
 If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
 You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.

In today's episode, I talk to Louis Deslus from Era B2B about building full-service outbound systems that achieve exceptional results through natural, human-centered prospection. 

We dive deep into his agency's multi-channel approach and explore how they achieved 180 meetings per month with a 7% conversion rate for a client. Louis shares his unique philosophy on creating genuine conversations rather than "selling," explaining why traditional sales principles still outperform AI-generated content. We discuss his journey from black hat SEO and early LinkedIn automation to founding a full-service agency, and explore tactics like industrializing referrals (achieving 90% meeting rates) and leveraging influencer networks. Louis also shares his perspective on the future of prospection, emphasizing that targeting and strategy will become increasingly critical as more companies adopt automation. 

Enjoy 🙂

(00:00) Introduction to Outbound Wizards 
(00:21) What Era B2B Does and Client Types 
(01:51) Approaching New Clients: Product-Market Fit Assessment 
(03:46) Creating Discussions vs. Selling 
(04:17) Traction Case Study: 180 Meetings per Month 
(05:42) Natural Communication vs. AI-Generated Content 
(07:24) Industrializing Referrals and Champion Networks 
(09:59) Influencer Outbound Strategy 
(10:31) Louis's Journey: From Black Hat SEO to Outbound 
(13:06) The Importance of Manual Excellence Before Automation 
(15:28) Future of Prospection: Targeting and Infrastructure Challenges

🔗 CONNECT WITH LOUIS

👥 LinkedIn
💻 Website

🔗 CONNECT WITH SAURAV

🎥 YouTube Channel

🐦 X (Twitter)

📸 Instagram

💻 Website

👥 LinkedIn
📧 Email - saurabh@salesrobot.co

🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :)

👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH You can also reach out with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learned from the episodes.