Explore every episode of the podcast Sub Club by RevenueCat
| Title | Pub. Date | Duration | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Bootstrapping a Subscription App to 5M MAU and 2X+ Revenue Growth — Bruno Virlet, Genius Scan | 22 Jan 2025 | 01:03:09 | |
On the podcast we talk with Bruno about putting customers ahead of metrics, why there’s still massive opportunity to build successful apps today, and how a server crash turned into an accidentally successful A/B test. Top Takeaways: 💡 Putting customers ahead of metrics builds better businesses
🚀 Small changes can drive big results in app performance 🔍 Bootstrapped success proves apps can thrive without funding About Bruno Virlet 🚀 Co-founder of Genius Scan, one of the earliest and best scanning apps for smartphones, bringing advanced document scanning to millions of users worldwide. 📄 Bruno Virlet started Genius Scan with his roommate as a fun side project during their time at the University of Illinois, turning a simple idea into a 15-year journey of bootstrapped success. 💡 “We didn’t want to be entrepreneurs—we just wanted to build something useful. It was about creating an app we’d want to use ourselves. That’s still the ethos driving us today.” 🔧 Through continuous experimentation (even accidental A/B tests!), Bruno has grown Genius Scan to 5 million monthly active users—all while staying true to a customer-first approach.
Follow us on X:
[00:00] The Genius Scan journey begins: How a side project in a university dorm room grew into one of the most successful scanning apps with 5 million monthly active users. [02:09] Pivoting early: The original idea was scanning paintings in museums, but technical and market constraints led to a shift toward document scanning. [05:38] A stroke of luck: How a canceled trip and a refund led Bruno to buy a MacBook and develop the first version of Genius Scan in just six weeks. [07:26] App Store beginnings: Launching Genius Scan as a free app in 2010 and watching it skyrocket in the rankings before experimenting with monetization. [13:45] Competing with tech giants: How Genius Scan stays relevant and competitive despite Apple and Google introducing native scanning features. [19:50] Customer-first philosophy: Why Genius Scan focuses on user experience and avoids dark patterns, keeping features accessible without sacrificing long-term user trust. [26:43] Experimenting with subscriptions: The shift from one-time purchases to subscription models, and how removing a lower-tier option increased revenue without affecting conversion. [43:56] The accidental A/B test: A server issue revealed how minor changes in paywall text and presentation doubled conversions. [50:05] Learning from feedback: How staying close to users through direct support drives product improvements and reinforces customer loyalty. [57:45] Building a company for the long term: Bruno reflects on balancing growth, profitability, and personal priorities, emphasizing the value of independence and sustainable success. | |||
| Making Web2App Work: From Basic Landing Pages to Complex Sales Funnels — Nathan Hudson, Perceptycs | 08 Jan 2025 | 01:11:05 | |
On the podcast we talk with Nathan about the strategic opportunity of web2app, how and when to use web2app, and why one app found success using webinars in their web2app funnel. Top Takeaways: 🎯 Gain full control over the user journey 🌎 Reach untapped audiences with web-first content 💸 Increase revenue with smarter sales tactics 📣 Leverage unique channels to drive growth About Nathan Hudson
Resoureces: Follow us on X:
[3:01] What does web-to-app mean?: Nathan Hudson explains the concept as converting traffic on the web or starting on the web before directing users to the app. [5:28] Web-to-app strategies for different use cases: Nathan highlights common approaches such as quizzes, blog posts, and webinars to drive user engagement and app downloads. [6:31] Defining web-to-app: Jacob Eiting describes it as using the web as part of either an acquisition or retention funnel. [8:50] The benefits of cash flow: Nathan explains how web-to-app helps early-stage apps avoid waiting for long payment cycles by leveraging web purchases. [10:50] Comparing conversion rates: Nathan shares that web often achieves higher conversion rates than app stores, particularly for higher-ticket subscription products. [14:28] The role of attribution: Nathan discusses the advantage of better attribution tools on the web compared to app-only campaigns. [20:23] Controlling user journeys: Nathan highlights how web-to-app allows brands to tailor onboarding experiences based on ad campaigns and user behavior. [30:01] Reaching new audiences: Nathan explains how web-to-app campaigns can attract low-intent users and nurture them through lead magnets and webinars. [37:07] Expanding to older audiences: Nathan discusses how web funnels allow brands to engage with desktop users and older demographics who may avoid app-only experiences. [52:46] Personalization for success: Nathan emphasizes the importance of tailoring user experiences on web-to-app journeys to reflect user needs and context effectively. | |||
| Marketing Your App More Efficiently with Apple Search Ads — Dilip Reddy, Search Ads Optimization | 04 Sep 2024 | 01:00:19 | |
On the podcast: The impact of Apple Search Ads on organic search, how to save money on brand defense, and why ROAS shouldn’t be the only thing you optimize for. Key Takeaways: 📊 Optimizing brand keyword bids can protect traffic and reduce costs
👨💻 Data engineer and founder of Search Ads Optimization. 📢 Dilip helps app developers and marketers optimize their Apple Search Ads campaigns and increase their ROI using data-driven insights and automation.
Follow us on X:
[5:35] Everybody’s changing: Trends for Apple Search Ads in 2024. [11:09] Running (brand) defense: Experimenting with lower bids to save money while maintaining the level of impressions you want. [19:16] Widening the search: How to leverage exact match and broad match keywords in Apple Search Ads. [29:46] ‘Tis the season: How different times of year and holidays can affect CPA and ROI for Apple Search Ads campaigns. [35:05] Playing the long game: Why subscription app developers should think about long-term — not short-term — return on ad spend (ROAS). [48:16] Tipping the scales: How to scale Apple Search Ads. [55:11] Custom-fit: How to implement custom product pages in your Apple Search Ads strategy. | |||
| The Next Big Opportunity in Software — Eric Crowley, GP Bullhound | 02 Feb 2021 | 00:51:51 | |
Our guest today is Eric Crowley, a tech investment banker with GP Bullhound, focusing on consumer subscription software (CSS), enterprise software, and financial technology. With investments in companies ranging from Spotify to Fishbrain, and clients such as AllTrails, Partnerize, and Motif, GP Bullhound provides transaction advice and capital to many of the leaders in the consumer subscription software space. In this episode, you’ll hear about:
(25:38) Web 3.0 is subscription-only CSS services. (32:30) Cost structures for CSS vs. SaaS; Calendly. (49:08) The evolving investment ecosystem: what does the future of CSS look like?
David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting Eric Crowley: https://twitter.com/crowxu
“An easy bet to make is that there will be 50 more CSS publicly-traded businesses in 10 years than there are today.” - Eric “My thesis is that if you fast-forward 5 years or even 2 years, I bet most people will be subscribing to 4 or 5 different things — through their phone only. And I bet that’ll be closer to 10 in the next 3 years.” - Eric “The exciting thing about this space is that entrepreneurs are building better products.” - Eric “Consumers have been conditioned, just like CTOs and businesses were, to pay for software — because it makes your life better.” - Eric “The thing that I get excited about with CSS is that it can be done with very little capital raised.” - Eric “I think you’re going to see people see value in these services because they streamline your life. They make things easier, either in your professional work or your personal work, and the idea of $10 a year for something is not that material.” - Eric “Looking at all these trends — people paying for podcasts, things like OnlyFans and Substack — we’re seeing these financial gatekeepers, or barriers to the direct exchange of value between very disparate creators and consumers, coming down.” - Jacob
| |||
| Building a Lean Growth Machine for the World’s Largest Journaling App — Darius Mora, Reflectly | 20 Jan 2021 | 00:54:47 | |
Darius Mora is the Chief Marketing Officer at Reflectly, the world’s largest journaling app. Reflectly is consistently in the top 5 Health & Fitness iPhone apps in the US, competing with companies 10X its size. Over the past 6 months, Reflectly has broadened its scope, acquiring 8 new apps in the mental fitness space.
(2:58) How Darius joined Reflectly. (4:48) How Reflectly added subscriptions and grew to 12 million users. (13:40) 3 solutions for getting past the growth “glass ceiling;” second product-market fit. (18:57) User retention and churn; the “leaky bucket;” Apple’s 85/15 revenue split. (24:52) A quick and easy hack for boosting retention: add paid subscriptions. (29:28) Split-testing strategies; Amplitude; Mixpanel; RevenueCat. (44:43) Advertising on TikTok vs. Instagram. Follow Us: David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting Darius Mora: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moravcik
“I’ve had 25 apps on the App Store, and I feel like I’ve learned more from the failures than the successes.” - David “[With my first app] we made all the usual mistakes… we spent half a year building it without talking to a single user, released it — crickets.” - Darius 11:30 “I think in SaaS, but also in consumer apps, the need for capital is going down… infrastructure can be rented, things can be experimented with and scaled very cheaply. It really doesn’t take what it used to to get something off the ground. And I think, strategically, it’s really smart because the leaner you are, the more options you have — and options are leverage.” - Jacob “It does feel like we’re in the middle of a gold rush. There’s just huge opportunities and shiny objects every day, all around. So the hard thing is staying focused — and are you willing to wait out 5 years until you start generating that recurring annual revenue?” - Darius “Most of the things that vendors are selling at conferences [solve] problems that are fixed by a better product.” - Darius “Unless you have really good retention, you shouldn’t be doing anything else — none of the other stuff will matter.” - Darius “You can’t fix bad retention with better growth strategies.” - Darius “Retention is a metric that measures product-market fit; it’s not a goal in itself. If you don’t have retention, it’s not a retention problem — it’s a product-market fit problem.” - Jacob “The truth is, a lot of times monetization is easier than retention. If you can figure out how to build an amazing product that works, monetization is not really difficult.” - Darius “It’s nice to get annual subscriptions because you get all the money up front, but a lot of times companies will get more money from doing the monthly because you can price it higher compared to the annual. And you get a higher LTV down the line, but it comes after a couple of months instead of all the money up front. So depending on what stage you’re in and how much pressure you [have for] scaling, you can decide which one you’re going to push more.” - Darius
| |||
| Transitioning a Free App with Millions of Users to Subscriptions — Vu Pham & Nick Robinson, Zero | 12 Jan 2021 | 00:47:29 | |
Today on the podcast we have two guests from Big Sky Health: Vu Pham, who works on the product team, and his colleague Nick Robinson, Chief Business Officer. Big Sky Health was founded to help people live healthier, longer lives with the help of technology. They are currently working on 3 apps: Zero, the world's most popular fasting app, Less, an app for more mindful drinking, and Oak, a meditation and breathing app. In this episode, you’ll hear about: (6:07) Zero helped create the “fasting app” category. (9:17) How Zero is scaling health advice to millions of patients; Dr. Peter Attia. (13:13) Striking a balance between free features and paywalled premium content. (25:44) Data tracking; long-term revenue goals and retention. (32:38) Balancing a mission-driven mindset with paid conversions and return on ad spend. (41:33) Business success metrics; ARR; volume vs. conversion. (46:15) Forecasting ARR with auto-renewal status; A/B tests; churn.
David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting Vu Pham: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vuprofile/ Nick Robinson: https://twitter.com/njrconcepts
Quotes: “We’re in this place now where we have these small apps that are really interactive, engaging, content delivery platforms — and they allow these people with value to add to people’s lives to reach them in a way… that television, radio, books, or podcasts never could.” - Jacob “It’s using content plus technology, forming community modes around it — but it’s all about amplifying these niche desires, these niche needs that people have. And you kind of turn into a mini TV network that’s better and it’s optimized.” - Nick “We know a lot about you as a user, what your goals are, where you are in your health journey, and we can contextually provide content to you in the moment of need.” - Nick “Working with RevenueCat made our steps leading up to launch a lot easier.” - Vu “I hear this all the time from devs who are nervous about this transition. They’re always nervous about, ‘Oh, what are these people gonna say?’ And there are a lot of public examples of apps getting beat up about [monetizing], and I’m like, ‘Listen, you were subsidizing them — they really weren’t your customers. They really didn’t see the value in it that you do. It’s your product; you’re resetting where that value bar is. So if they’re upset, it’s like, ‘Well… it was good while it lasted. I’m sorry, but I’ve got to move on.” - Jacob “[Free users] are huge vectors for growth for a business like this because those people, even if they’re not paying you dollars, they’re telling their friends, they’re using [your app], they’re engaging more deeply.” - Jacob “It’s crazy the number of people that do a first download of Zero from a text message. It’s huge.” - Nick “For the same revenue earned, would you rather have a small user base and a really, really high conversion rate? Or would we rather have a really small conversion rate, but a huge user base?” - Vu
| |||
| Building a $100k App Business in 6 Months — Zach Shakked, Hashtag Expert | 16 Dec 2020 | 00:44:53 | |
While in college Zach built Hashtag Expert, an app for finding top-performing hashtags. After growing it organically for a bit, he started doing paid acquisition and quickly scaled it to hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in revenue. You can see exactly how much Zach spent to grow Hashtag Expert to that level because he publishes an interactive dashboard that shows the past couple years of income and expenses. Zach is now writing an email newsletter on his process of building a new app business with the goal of earning $100k in profit within the first 6 months.
(2:28) How Hashtag Expert was born. (7:58) Reporting in Facebook ads; Zach’s ad strategy as a bootstrapped app company. (19:40) Pricing and paywall placement experiments; the elastic demand curve; Jake Mor. (35:10) Zach’s latest project: a meal planning app that helps with weight loss; Weight Watchers; MyFitnessPal. (41:11) The status of the $100k app challenge 3 months in. Follow Us: David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting Zach Shakked: https://twitter.com/zachshakked
“[Hashtag Expert] definitely changed how I think about branding an app. If you make an app, it should have one really good functionality. And then if you want to build another piece of functionality that’s similar but not exactly part of it, then separating it out into its own app can be another way to get way more users because you have a whole new set of organic traffic to get.” - Zach “If you get somebody on a subscription, you know that they’re willing to pay, and so then you can push those to all your other subscription apps. It’s a smart strategy.” - David “[With paid ads] you’re basically building a money-printing machine. Even if you’re at break-even, if I pay $10 to get somebody and they spend $10 and I don’t profit immediately, the next year or the year after, I could make money. And that just allows you to build a substantial revenue monster.” - Zach “If you had a machine where you could literally put in one dollar and get back two, how much money would you put into it? Literally every dollar you had! Once that clicked in my head, I started spending on ads a lot.” - Zach “Something about showing the product as like, ‘Hey, this costs money; this isn’t a free product’ — that changes how people view it. It’s like, “Oh, OK, I have to pay for this.” - Zach “Meeting people where they’re at and giving them more options to pay, I think, is compelling.” - David “The narrative that subscriptions in general are a way to trick users into paying more money is, I think, more and more not becoming the case.” - Jacob “That’s a really savvy thing, I mean, outside of app businesses in general. Validate — just get some validation, some heat.” - Jacob “I think sometimes entrepreneurs can get caught up in themselves and believe some demand exists for something because they care about it — but you really have to take that extra step to be like, ‘Are there 10 other people I can find that also care?’” - Jacob “There are dozens of different use cases for every app, and if you’re at scale advertising and you hit a ceiling and you’re trying to unlock additional channels for revenue, then [multi-channel optimization] is naturally the next point.” - Zach “I never saw somebody being super, ultra-transparent about how they’re doing things — like literally documenting exactly how they named their app and exactly how they think about an app idea. There’s a lot of high-level advice out there but not a ton of micro, super focused, super transparent advice.” - Zach
| |||
| Performance Marketing in a Post-IDFA World — Eric Seufert, Mobile Dev Memo | 02 Dec 2020 | 00:50:08 | |
Since Apple’s big announcement about upcoming privacy changes in iOS 14, mobile app developers have been scrambling to understand how these changes will affect their businesses. With IDFA effectively dead in the water, developers will no longer be able to use device-level attribution and high-resolution tracking to send targeted ads to their users. So what can they do?
(6:30) Why it’s hard to determine the effect of a specific ad channel; holdout testing. (9:10) The difference between mobile and traditional advertising: response time; Pepsi Super Bowl ads. (22:10) Why Eric doesn’t like the term “user acquisition.” (31:00) Why post-IDFA is more work for advertisers but provides a bigger opportunity. (37:43) How App Store changes have shaped the entire mobile app market; Top Charts. (44:25) Prediction: SKAdNetwork changes will most likely go into effect this January. Follow Us:
Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting Eric Seufert: https://twitter.com/eric_seufert Quotes: “When you’re spending a lot of money and you’re showing a person five ads a day, incrementality is critical in figuring out how much value did this particular ad contribute? … That’s the more interesting question because when these budgets get really large, you get these signals coming from all these different mediums, and figuring out which of those actually drives value is more important.” - Eric “That’s what’s so interesting about the mobile ecosystem: that immediacy, that kind of lack of friction.” - Eric “Just doing the fun clicking around Facebook Ad Manager, that’s not performance marketing. That’s advertising operations or something.” - Eric “Google’s always going to tell you to spend more money. Whatever question you ask Google about improving your performance, it’s like, “Oh, just pay more money!” - David “These systems were designed to sort of alleviate that need, on the part of the advertiser, to not have to have this big team of data scientists working on these models. Like, “Hey, we’ll do it for you!” And to be honest, Google could do it better than any individual advertiser could — it’s Google. And just the fact that they’re syndicating all that data across all these different advertisers, they just have more data than any single advertiser could. And that’s a good thing.” - Eric “This is something I think Apple has failed at since the very beginning of the App Store: understanding the way their individual, seemingly small decisions end up shaping the entire market… Now we have SKAdNetwork, we have one ConversionValue, you can’t update it in the background, you can only do it once, it has these weird timers… the entire market for apps is going to reshape around the shape of SKAdNetwork versus it having been shaped around the existing tools.” - David “There’s billions and billions of dollars being generated in the App Store, and it’s such a tiny little market, so people put in the effort to find ways to game, to maximum advantage, any point of leverage that Apple gives them. So now people are poring over the SKAdNetwork documentation just trying to find ways of like well, “How can I best use ConversionValue?” It will shape the design of apps. It’s going to be a totally new design paradigm.” - Eric “I just get really scared because ultimately if [Apple gets] it wrong, we’re gonna see apps moving in a direction that just is for them to extract the most value across the ecosystem and not necessarily provide great experiences for each user. I think lower resolution tracking, in this sense, actually can lead to that.” - Jacob
| |||
| Hot Takes — The New App Store Small Business Program | 18 Nov 2020 | 00:43:00 | |
In This Episode Apple recently shocked the App Store developer community with news that small developers with revenue of less than $1M per year will pay a commission of 15% instead of 30%. Within hours of the news dropping, David and Jacob recorded this episode with the hottest of takes, exploring what this means for the future of the App Store. Here's what we cover in the episode:
(4:39) 97% of developers using RevenueCat qualify for the program. (7:13) What this means for ad spend, CAC, and LTV ratios. (9:26) Doing the math: How much of a difference can this really make? (14:16) 97% of developers are affected by this change — representing only 5% of all App Store revenue. (18:56) What happens if you cross the $1M revenue threshold? (26:00) The $1M “magic number”; the 85/15% split. (36:35) How Apple could help different types of businesses succeed in the App Store; Kindle. Follow Us: David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting
“Indie developers can hire out more things, like customer support. You can afford to do a lot more as a small developer and spend on tools and services and help and designers — there’s so much you can spend that money on that will improve your product, that will help you build a better business, that will lead to more innovation.” - David “What this does is it make small developers more competitive in the bids because we can spend more, so on the ad spend side of things, I think it’s a huge boon to smaller developers.” - David “I still think that the App Store economy generally is more limited on innovation not because of money but because of App Review. VCs are making decisions whether to fund or not fund a mobile company based on App Review, not the 30%. VCs recognize that the marginal costs of digital goods and services is zero. So you can stomach a 30% tax on zero-marginal-cost goods, if you can build a great product.” - David “From a more strictly innovation standpoint, it’s not the money that’s limiting innovation — it’s Apple’s stranglehold on what can and can’t [succeed in the App Store].” - David “I do think this is in some way, the perfect non-action for Apple.” - Jacob “We have to keep asking for the things that developers need, and making more money is always good! That's our mission at RevenueCat; I'm always a fan of that. - Jacob “This is a step, it’s something, and it's not insubstantial. And it's well targeted and well thought out.” - Jacob “Apple gave us a raise!” - David “Ultimately I think all these things that [Apple] could do — like changes to App Review, creating a program to reduce the App Store fee for businesses who can't make it work — all those things ultimately benefit Apple in the long run. As developers are more innovative, as more apps are able to be on the App Store, as the platform grows, they're going to make even more money. So it’s a win all around.” - David
| |||
| Taking a Fitness App to Y Combinator and Beyond — Jake Mor, FitnessAI | 13 Nov 2020 | 00:42:02 | |
Starting a mobile-first subscription app business can be tough — there are a lot of decisions to make. Should you bootstrap or raise investor funding? How will you classify your business? When is the right time to monetize your app? Fortunately, you don’t have to go it alone! One of the best ways to chart your course is to learn from the experiences of developers who’ve been through the process before. And one of the best ways to do that is to go through an accelerator like Y Combinator. This week, David and Jacob caught up with Jake Mor to find out how he navigated the process of building a subscription app from the ground up. Jake is the founder of FitnessAI, an app that builds personalized weight lifting plans to help people achieve their goals without having to hire a personal trainer. The app was released in early 2019 and quickly grew to over $85k in MRR! Based in part on that growth, FitnessAI was accepted into the Y Combinator Winter 2020 batch and raised a seed round coming out of demo day. In this episode, you’ll hear about:
(8:44) The fitness app opportunity: market size, structured data, and machine learning. (13:20) Pricing experiments; users are willing to pay more than you think. (18:53) Scaling ad spend; what Jake learned from his first $20k. (19:02) The importance of mentorship; Bryan Welfel; JSwipe; The Beard Club. (22:15) Pro tip: Put your ad spend on a credit card to sync up with Apple’s payment schedule. (But be very careful to manage your debt!)
David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting Jake Mor: https://twitter.com/jakemor Like this episode?
| |||
| The Trillion-Dollar Subscription App Opportunity — Nico Wittenborn, Adjacent | 30 Oct 2020 | 00:51:48 | |
We’re at an interesting point in the evolution of the subscription app ecosystem. Mass adoption of smartphones, consumers’ increasing willingness to pay for digital services, and a better business model — Personal SaaS — are all coming together to create a huge opportunity for mobile-first subscription app developers. Just how big is this opportunity?
(4:10) The formula for a breakout SaaS business: engaged users. (5:00) Stickiness, engagement, and churn: B2B SaaS vs. consumer app businesses. (6:56) Identifying nascent markets before they become mainstream; meditation apps (Headspace & Calm). (14:00) The lines between consumer and business use cases are getting blurry. (19:51) We’re in the early stages of figuring out subscription app pricing; Salesforce. (24:46) Pricing your subscription app: balancing adoption, data collection, and user price sensitivity. (39:55) Increased mobile spending and subscription fatigue. (48:26) Sophistication of today’s apps and technology; Oura ring. Follow Us: David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting Nico Wittenborn: https://twitter.com/ncsh | |||
| Introducing the Sub Club Podcast — Jacob Eiting & David Barnard | 29 Oct 2020 | 00:50:49 | |
Welcome to the Sub Club podcast: a deep dive on building and growing subscription app businesses. Hosts David Barnard and Jacob Eiting will guide you through the ins and outs of subscription apps — sharing insider tips, predictions, and insights from industry experts. In this episode, you’ll hear about: (00:58) Meet your hosts David Barnard and Jacob Eiting. (05:11) Sub Club is the first podcast focused on subscription apps. (05:15) Personal SaaS is a nascent industry. (6:18) The first billion-dollar mobile subscription companies; Lightricks, Calm, Headspace. (16:50) How to submit feedback and suggestions for the Sub Club podcast. (37:19) New platforms and form factors; AR (44:15) The “AWS-ification” of mobile app development.
David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnard Jacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeiting | |||
| Understanding When to Use Web2App and How to Do It Well — Thomas Petit, Independent App Consultant | 21 Aug 2024 | 01:06:30 | |
On the podcast: How to find success with web2app, the value (and challenges) of “owning the transaction”, and why avoiding app store fees isn’t a great reason to experiment with web2app, but might work out anyway.
💰 There’s much more to web2app than avoiding app store fees - In fact, looking at app store fees alone disregards the benefits of going via the app store, such as a substantially better conversion rate. Even if web acquisition is cheaper, those users are not worth the same to your business. 🔍 Better advantages of web2app to focus on include… Greater flexibility with attribution, access to new audiences (via organic and paid), and support for B2B use cases, among others. 💼 Use web2app for B2B billing - IAPs lack an elegant solution for B2B billing, whether it’s making it easy for individuals to expense purchases or offering teams a simple way to manage group billing. 🎯 Web2App allows for greater customization of user journeys - To fully capitalize on web funnels, tailor user journeys based on their entry point — for instance, a user coming from a branded Google search shouldn’t see the same journey as one coming from TikTok. 📈 Web2App is crucial for scaling up advertising - When ad campaigns plateau, running both web and app campaigns in parallel helps reach new audiences and convert users who might not engage with app install ads alone. This approach allows for better targeting and expands your overall reach.
👨💻Independent subscription app growth consultant. 💸Thomas has worked with hundreds of clients and helped manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend. Follow us on X:
[1:48] Web2App: The advantages of capturing users on the web before sending them to your app. [6:51] One size doesn’t fit all: To reap the benefits of web2app, don’t just create one user experience on the web. [11:30] Catch-22: The trade-offs of owning your customer transactions on the web versus paying app store fees. [27:21] Learn by example: Who’s doing web2app well — and why it works for them. [37:45] To B2B or not to B2B: How web2app helps B2B apps overcome the team billing and expensing challenges of in-app purchases. [41:55] Owning it: Owning your transactions on the web can be a great way to reduce churn. [44:34] World wide(er) web: Break through marketing plateaus by running both web and app ad campaigns in parallel. [53:52] Cross-platformer: A web2app flow can help you go beyond the App Store and Google Play (to Roku, Apple TV, or the Amazon Appstore) to reach a wider audience. | |||
| Marketing an Award-Winning Language Learning App through Offline Channels — Steven Meyers, Babbel | 07 Aug 2024 | 00:26:14 | |
Key Takeaways: 📢 Look beyond digital channels for app growth. Consider offline advertising channels such as radio, linear TV, and podcasts to reach untapped demographics. These channels can help you target non-digital audiences, particularly older, higher-income users who can be more lucrative for subscription-based apps. 🔄 Use diverse methods to measure offline marketing. Utilize a variety of attribution methods, including how-did-you-hear-about-us surveys, incrementality tests, and media mix modeling (MMM) to assess the effectiveness of offline channels. Accept the inherent ambiguity in measurement and use multiple data points to guide your strategy. 🎯 Embrace customer-centered metrics for better retention. Focus on creating proprietary metrics that align with your users’ goals rather than relying on standard industry metrics like daily active users. Babbel’s "learner success" metric prioritizes user progress and satisfaction, leading to higher retention rates. 🔍 Rethink freemium models to boost engagement and conversions. Freemium isn't always the best choice. Consider a hard paywall to increase user commitment and filter out less-engaged users. It’s about quality over quantity — attracting users who truly value your app. 🌐 Optimize both web and app experiences for user journeys. Users often start on the web before downloading your app. Ensure seamless transitions between platforms to improve user experience and conversion rates. Informative web experiences can ease app adoption. About Guest 👨💻 SVP of Growth at Babbel. 📢 Steven and his team have taken a non-traditional approach to marketing Babbel: leveraging offline advertising channels like radio and TV, measuring the success of marketing efforts through a proprietary model, and tracking metrics like learner success instead of monthly active users.
Follow us on X: Episode Highlights [0:44] There’s (more than) an app for that: Potential users aren’t just on the app stores, so shouldn’t your marketing campaigns be everywhere too? [3:54] Radio star: How and why Babbel buys radio spots to advertise their subscription app. [7:43] Attribution remix: Measuring the success of offline ads can be a challenge and requires a blend of data analysis methods (like user surveys, incrementality tests, and media mix modeling). [13:57] Freemium isn’t free: Why Babbel rejects the freemium model in favor of a hard paywall. [18:15] The measure of success: Is Monthly Active Users (MAU) really a good metric to optimize for? (For some mission-driven companies like Babbel, no.) [18:46] You get what you pay for: Paid subscriptions — especially premium tiers — often see higher levels of user engagement and retention. [21:43] Web slinger: An optimized web experience can boost app downloads and paid conversions. | |||
| Building an Effective Data Product Strategy — Taylor Wells, News Corp | 24 Jul 2024 | 01:04:55 | |
On the podcast: How to make better decisions with data, the many pitfalls of collecting and interpreting data, and why the best executive dashboard is probably a hand-written weekly email. Key Takeaways: 💡Prevent exponential cost increases by structuring data early. Establishing a well-structured data collection and management process early on prevents costly modifications and adjustments later. Early alignment and thoughtful planning are crucial. 🔒 Maintain control over data collection to simplify compliance. Managing your own data collection processes can reduce legal and compliance challenges associated with third-party data processors. This is especially crucial for adhering to regulations like GDPR. 🔧Opt for off-the-shelf data solutions early on. Leveraging open-source or ready-made solutions can save time and resources. Maintain a clear evaluation structure for transitioning to custom solutions when needed, and accept changes in data collection methods to avoid outdated systems. 📊Simplified insights over complex dashboards. Dashboards can overwhelm executives with too much data. Instead, providing a succinct, focused summary of key insights through something as simple as a weekly email can be more effective for decision-making.
📈 Director of Data Products at News Corp. 💡With over 15 years of experience, Taylor is an expert in building and implementing effective data collection and analytics strategies — helping organizations like Disney+, Business Insider, and Deloitte collect the right data and turn it into actionable insights. 👋 LinkedIn Follow us on X:
[3:44] Laying a foundation: Data collection is a lot like constructing a building — setting up the right framework from the beginning can save you a lot of time, effort, and money later. [7:30] The Goldilocks zone: Collecting either too much or too little data is costly and can potentially have ramifications for data regulation and privacy laws. [16:58] Information overload: Data is only helpful if you derive actionable information from it. [20:33] Distilling data: What is a “data product” team? (And why might you need one?) [26:13] Build vs. buy: Most companies should start with an off-the-shelf data collection solution instead of building something internally — then consider a switch later when the scale and financials make sense. [33:45] What’s in a name? What you call specific data points and even your data collection system can be very important. [42:11] Ditch the dashboard: Fancy data analytics dashboards need to be interpreted to be valuable — and without context, they can be misleading. [51:27] Trix are for… kids?: How Taylor’s experience promoting the television show “Bluey” on Disney+ illustrates the incredible power of data analytics. | |||
| Growing to $1M MRR with Paywall and Pricing Experiments — Francescu Santoni, Mojo | 10 Jul 2024 | 00:48:51 | |
On the podcast: How Mojo grew to over $1M in MRR, the most impactful pricing and paywall experiments, and why it’s important to choose complexity instead of just letting it happen. Key Takeaways: 💪Bravery to pivot leads to long-term success. Early popularity can be deceiving. Without strong retention, it's time to pivot. Build features users love to evolve from a gimmick to a sustainable business. 🧱Make your paywall more prominent. Show your paywall during onboarding. Then, iterate on messaging, design, and pricing, focusing on one element at a time. 💲Pricing will always annoy someone. If no one complains, you’re underpricing. Be strategic about who you upset and how many people. 🤝Viral loops reduce the need for ads. Heavy ad spend can hide a lack of product-market fit. Build sharing and virality into your app first, then consider paid acquisition. 📈Choose complexity based on impact. Focus on your team’s strengths. Growth can be product-led or through, for example, paid acquisition, depending on what suits your team and app best.
[6:16] Going Pro: How Francescu got his start building mobile subscription apps. [7:44] Pivot… PIVOT: Despite early success with their augmented reality app, Francescu and his team had to shut it down and pivot to a new idea. [15:12] Pricing and paywalls and packaging, oh my: Why you need to show your paywall during onboarding (and other monetization lessons Francescu learned building Mojo).
[41:15] Priced to annoy: If no one is mad about the cost of your app, your prices are probably too low. | |||
| From Corporate Web Developer to Full-Time Indie Hacker — Sebastian Röhl, HabitKit | 26 Jun 2024 | 00:51:03 | |
On the podcast: Quitting a job to build your own apps, returning to that job after failing to gain traction, and the inflection point that allowed our guest to finally quit for good. Key Takeaways: 💡If your first side project doesn’t take off, try again — Reviving a lackluster launch can be tempting, but it might indicate a lack of demand. Instead, start fresh with a new idea and watch for early signs of product-market fit. 💰Invest more in your product once you have “pull” and a channel — Achieving early product-market fit and having a reliable acquisition channel allows you to focus on enhancing your product and experimenting with monetization strategies. 🔞Avoid relying solely on one acquisition channel — While a dependable early channel like ASO is crucial, it comes with risks outside your control. Diversify by investing in owned or paid channels to adapt to changes more effectively. 🧑💻Building in public offers numerous advantages — Developing your app publicly immerses you in a supportive community of indie developers, providing motivation, inspiration, and valuable feedback. However, it can also attract copycat competitors. 📈"Test higher prices" should be at the top of your to-do list — Raising your app’s price may seem risky, but many indie developers are overly cautious. A/B testing can help you safely explore the impact of different price points without significant customer backlash.
💡Sebastian began his career as a corporate web developer and became a full-time indie app developer after his habit-tracking app HabitKit took off.
Follow us on X: Episode Highlights [1:04] Web versus mobile: What motivated Sebastian to switch from web to mobile app development. [4:17] Free solo: Having a corporate day job might not let you stretch your creative muscles as much as building your own concepts. [6:43] Drive: If you’re going to build an indie app or venture-backed startup, make sure it’s something you need to do. [12:13] Risky business: The riskiness of leaving a full-time job to pursue an indie venture is different for everyone, depending on life stage, finances, and family obligations. [16:39] Just ship it: Your first idea might not be great, but getting started will lead to new, better ideas. [24:04] If at first you don’t succeed: Sometimes it’s better to give up on an idea that isn’t working so you can focus on one with better product-market fit. [28:38] Doing the (side) hustle: Making the decision to keep your day job or fully commit to your side gig can be tough. [34:45] Changing the channel: The app stores are a black box — it’s a good idea to invest in additional acquisition channels in case of algorithm changes. [38:26] Building in public: Having a following on social media can be a great source of support and user loyalty outside of the app stores. [45:00] Raising prices: Don’t be afraid to experiment with higher prices — many apps are leaving money on the table. | |||
| WWDC 2024: What Subscription Apps Need to Know — David Barnard, Jacob Eiting, & Charlie Chapman, RevenueCat | 17 Jun 2024 | 00:57:35 | |
On the podcast: Another Apple WWDC conference is in the books, and as usual, we’re excited to dig into everything Apple announced — and what it means for iOS developers and RevenueCat users. This year’s announcements covered everything from small quality-of-life enhancements in App Store Connect to the deprecation of some of Apple’s oldest in-app payments code.
🏪 StoreKit 1 is deprecated — After 15 years, the old and creaking first version of StoreKit is being deprecated by Apple. It’ll likely stick around as so many legacy apps still use it, but StoreKit 1 will not receive new updates and features. 🧠 Apple Intelligence — AI, rather than spelling the end of apps, could usher in a new era for apps. By building AI directly into the OS, connecting to services in a privacy-conscious way, Apple is opening up the potential of AI to all apps on the App Store. 👀 Vision Pro — While Vision Pro is now available in new markets and has received an update to VisionOS, it still feels like a “publicly available beta”, where the audience size remains small. Great for experimentation, but not a place to build a business (yet). 🧘 Quality-of-life improvements — Apple announced plenty of quality-of-life updates such as reduced screenshot requirements (now only one size per platform!), deep links for custom product pages, and a better experience for TestFlight users. 🏆 Win-back offers — A fourth offer type is now available, which applies to users whose subscriptions have lapsed, something which wasn’t easy before. Win-back offers also come with functionality we haven’t seen before with the other offer types. 🔏 AdAttributionKit — In what seems to be a successor to SKAN, Apple has announced a new privacy-focused ad attribution framework. AdAttributionKit better standardizes what existed before and comes with some new features (such as compatibility with third-party app stores). About Hosts: David Barnard is a Growth Advocate at RevenueCat and creator of apps like Launch Center Pro and Weather Up. Jacob Eiting is the CEO of RevenueCat and an expert on subscription apps and in-app purchases. Charlie Chapman is a Developer Advocate at RevenueCat, an indie developer of apps like Dark Noise, and host of the Launched podcast. Follow us on X:
[2:00] Goodbye to an old friend: After 15 years, Apple’s StoreKit 1 (recently renamed “original API for in-app purchase”) has been deprecated.
| |||
| Why Duolingo’s Engagement Strategy Won’t Work For Every App — Asya Paloni, Welltory | 29 May 2024 | 00:50:49 | |
On the podcast: What to do when there are no jobs to be done, how to build innovative features, and why copying Duolingo’s engagement strategy probably won’t work for your app.
🏆 To win over a mass market, you need to discover your app’s trigger. Apps serving niche audiences often have a well-defined job-to-be-done. Apps aiming for broad appeal, however, need to identify the triggers in a user’s daily life they will optimize for, in the absence of a specific user goal. 🪄 A framework for user retention. Apps that serve a mass audience need to work extra hard to engage and retain users. While niche apps might be inherently more retentive, they too would benefit from making the app: magical, relevant, intuitive in real-time, novel, and pleasurable. 🥅 Why you might not want to make “the Duolingo” of your niche. Apps like Duolingo try hard to shame you for not using them but make completing the day’s goal quick and easy. This approach may not be suitable for all long-term goals and doesn't work well when your aim is to retain as many users as possible. 🧑🏼🎨 Innovation isn’t accidental, it’s designed - here’s a framework to help:
Think through all of these areas when prioritizing your backlog. 👍🏼 Some features should be considered must-haves. Features that all your competitors have, fulfill a promise you sell users on, or whose absence will drive users to a competitor, or cause high levels of frustration if missing, should be prioritized. Deciding whether to prioritize these over innovative additions is up to you.
👨💻 VP of Strategy and creator of core features at Welltory.
[0:44] The Welltory story: How (and why) Jane Smorodnikova founded Welltory.
[40:32] Feature deal-breakers: Make sure you build both must-have and nice-to-have features to avoid frustrating users and prevent them from switching to a competitor app. | |||
| Insider Tips for Building Better, More Profitable Android Apps — Sarah Karam, Google | 20 May 2024 | 00:52:27 | |
On the podcast: How developers can launch and optimize their app listings on the Google Play Store. A conversation from Google I/O 2024 with Sarah Karam, director of Apps Partnerships at Google.
There are now more ways to optimize revenue with Google Play Commerce, such as installment subscriptions and automatically adjusted local pricing. On Android, the leading apps diversify their monetization. Instead of offering just subscriptions, for example, they offer IAPs to cater for diverse user preferences. Tipping, for example, has seen huge growth. The leading Android apps also adjust their overall approach to cater for the huge and diverse user base. Just replicating your iOS strategy will only serve a small fraction of potential customers. How can you serve someone on a $200 phone as well as a $2000 one? “The consumer rarely buys what you think you sell” and understanding this can lead to secondary product-market fit, unlocking new growth. Stop thinking about your app in terms of the feature(s) it offers and more about what problem it solves. About Guest
Guidelines to Getting Featured on Google Play Guides to Help Grow Your Business on Google Play Google Play business community on X Android Developer YouTube Channel
[3:57] Feature presentation: Getting your app featured on the Google Play Store can be great, but it isn’t the most important thing (and you still need to market your app to take advantage of being featured).
| |||
| Optimizing your Keywords and Monetization ― Part 2 with Ramit Arora, Microsoft | 15 May 2024 | 00:21:28 | |
On the podcast: How the Microsoft 365 team optimizes their apps for the app stores and the top paywall optimization tips for enterprise apps and start-ups. Part 2 of our conversation with Ramit Arora.
💼 Use jobs-to-be-done to inform your app store optimization (ASO) keywords strategy. Optimize for keywords that align with what your potential audience is hoping to accomplish. To discover what these keywords are, use the same user research that informs your product roadmap. 🔐 Use Apple Search Ads (ASA) to unearth highly profitable keywords for ASO. A mistake that some apps make is to rank for keywords that are easy to rank for, not for ones that will drive revenue. Use ASA to discover which keywords are driving subscription growth, not just downloads and engagement. 💲 High-impact paywall experiments that work for Microsoft will probably work for you. These include making the more expensive (family) plan the default option, anchoring the price of yearly plans to the monthly equivalent (emphasizing value), and ensuring that free trial offers use the word “free” on the CTA button itself. About Guest: 👨💻 Product Manager on the Microsoft 365 (Office) Mobile and Mac team. 🚀 An expert in subscription management, growth, and monetization strategy, Ramit leads the apps like a start-up. 👋 LinkedIn
[3:31] Choosing key keywords: Don’t go after keywords simply because they’re easy to rank for — select keywords that will actually drive value for your business. [8:54] The golden ratio: Even Microsoft has to balance their LTV vs. CAC.
[13:01] Testing, 123: Microsoft optimizes paywalls with friendly CTAs and GIFs that show (rather than tell) the value proposition.
| |||
| Using Subscription App Benchmarks to Make Better Growth Decisions — Phil Carter, Elemental Growth | 23 Dec 2024 | 00:57:35 | |
On the podcast we talk with Phil about how to effectively use benchmarks to aid decision making, the limitations of benchmarks, and why even the best companies aren’t top quartile in every single metric. Top Takeaways: 📏 Benchmarks are a starting point, not a roadmap
⚔️ Beware of misleading benchmarks
💡 Data is powerful, but intuition seals the deal
👨💻 Growth Advisor at Elemental Growth, a consultancy dedicated to scaling consumer subscription companies through actionable benchmarks and strategic insights
Follow us on X:
[1:37] The Subscription Value Loop: Phil introduces his framework for driving sustainable growth through value creation, delivery, and capture, and how it applies to subscription businesses. [5:52] Benchmarks as tools: Phil explains how benchmarks are a directional tool to guide decision-making and identify growth opportunities rather than an end-all, be-all. [13:07] Judging good ideas: The team discusses how great execution relies on judgment and filtering good ideas to focus on what moves the business forward. [20:53] Using the Subscription Value Loop: Phil shares how the framework acts as a diagnostic tool for spotting bottlenecks in client businesses and setting growth priorities. [24:47] The impact of pricing and free value: Phil describes a fitness app’s challenge with over-delivering value for free, resulting in low subscription conversion rates and pricing adjustments. [30:26] The power of subscription retention insights: Phil explains how understanding differences in retention between annual and monthly subscribers can shape pricing and product strategy. [36:32] Interpreting benchmarks through context: The hosts discuss how benchmarks differ based on the business model, user acquisition strategy, and market dynamics. [42:46] Paid vs. organic growth strategies: Phil underscores the risks of being overly dependent on paid ads and the value of diversifying acquisition through organic channels. [47:18] Value capture and monetization: Phil explores strategies for optimizing conversion rates, pricing, and paywalls to increase revenue capture from free users. [55:45] What’s next for the Subscription Value Loop Calculator: Phil shares plans for enhancing the tool with better data, new filters, and expanded benchmarks in future versions. | |||
| Operating Like a Start-up inside the World’s Biggest Company — Ramit Arora, Microsoft | 01 May 2024 | 00:30:32 | |
On the podcast: Microsoft 365 app monetization and optimization, and how Microsoft is building successful apps–recorded live in Vegas at the Mobile Apps Unlocked (MAU) conference.
📱 The App Store advantage: Microsoft's data reinforces that the App Store, despite the fees attached, offers significant advantages. The seamless experience from things such as pre-attached payment methods results in a conversion rate from trial to paid that is five times higher than on other direct channels. 🚀 On the App Store, think like a startup (even if you’re not): Despite Microsoft’s strong brand, success in the App Store requires the agility and innovation of a startup. The platform's democratic nature allows new startups to challenge established companies. Continual innovation is essential and you need to be at the top of your game with ASO. 🔗 Bundling apps can mean better retention: Combining multiple apps into a single subscription can boost user retention by meeting a variety of needs. Even if a use case is one-off, there will be other use cases met by other apps. This strategy generally involves developing a wide range of features rather than focusing deeply on a single application. 🧠 Integrate AI thoughtfully: When integrating AI, it's important to consider if it genuinely enhances the tasks users perform and brings a desktop-level experience to mobile devices. This ensures the technology is both practical and user-focused, and not simply jumping on the bandwagon.
About Guest 👨💻 Product Manager on the Microsoft 365 (Office) Mobile and Mac team.
Episode Highlights [1:14] From desktop to mobile: Microsoft is famous for its desktop software, but it’s increasingly prioritizing its mobile apps to keep up with consumer trends.
[4:56] The start-up mindset: Think like a start-up to stay agile against the competition in the app stores.
[8:22] Staying ahead of the curve: The key to becoming and staying a leading app? Neutralize the competition, differentiate, and incubate. [17:19] Lighting up the small screen: Apps like Photoroom and Microsoft Copilot are using AI to make tasks historically done on a desktop easy on a mobile device.
| |||
| Learning and Profiting from Black Swan Events — Val Agostino, Monarch Money | 17 Apr 2024 | 00:45:57 | |
On the podcast:The importance of passion for the product you’re working on, how to differentiate in a crowded market, and why achieving the ‘viable’ in Minimum Viable Product is harder than ever. 📉 Ad-based revenue models too often lead to a degraded user experience. For ad-supported products, the real customer is the advertiser, not the end user. This causes a conflict between doing what’s going to create the best product and what’s going to drive the most advertising revenue.
🚀 The bar for what makes a “viable” MVP is always getting higher. While no app first ships as a fully-formed 1.0, it’s now rarely viable to launch an app as a barebones MVP (minimum viable product). There are just too many apps offering too much competition to not offer a compelling reason for a user to switch. 🔍 The “Jobs to Be Done” (JTBD) framework allows you to dig deeper than surface-level features. Gathering user feedback is essential, but users rarely request what they truly want. JTBD demands going deeper than feature requests by addressing the underlying need that the user wants to fulfill. ❓ To get to the root cause of a user problem, ask the “five whys”. When a user makes a request, get into the habit of asking “Why?”. The more times you ask, the more clarity you’ll have on what you actually need to build, giving you jobs-to-be-done that can best meet the needs of your users. 🌀How to capitalize on “black swan events”. Adaptability and swift action are key to managing unexpected high-impact events. It's essential to pivot from past decisions without being anchored by sunk costs and to act and ship quickly to capture new opportunities. About Guest: 👨💻 Seasoned Internet entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience building groundbreaking apps.
[7:54] Ads vs. subscriptions: Why subscriptions (not an ad-supported model) were Val’s first choice for Monarch.
[24:56] Disappoint-Mint: How Val went from the Mint team to creating Monarch — and what happened when Mint shut down. [34:17] Modern marketing: Talking to potential users on forums like Reddit can be an effective way to build trust and win fans.
[38:02] On a mission: Val and the Monarch team are passionate about helping users improve their financial health. | |||
| Scaling Your Subscription App with Meta Ads – Marcus Burke, Independent Consultant | 03 Apr 2024 | 01:01:42 | |
On the podcast: The past, present, and future of Meta ads, tactics to scale subscription apps on Meta, and why you should probably exclude younger audiences in your targeting. Key Takeaways:
🧘 Navigating SKAN with patience. Prioritize trial events and give the data time to crystallize into actionable insights. Rushed evaluations can deceive; allowing at least a week can provide a more accurate picture of your campaign's impact. 🦾 Harness creative diversity and precise placements. Scaling up means evolving your creative approach to suit distinct audience behaviors across Meta's diverse platforms. Meticulously analyzing demographic and placement data ensures your ads resonate more profoundly with your target audience.
About Guest
Episode Highlights
[52:13] The future is bright: Upcoming developments like SKAN 4 and Meta’s Aggregated Event Measurement (AEM) should make creating and analyzing Meta ads easier. | |||
| Lessons from a Lackluster Launch — David Barnard, Weather Up | 20 Mar 2024 | 01:02:23 | |
On the podcast: The many failures of his recent app launch, the surprising results of his first-ever A/B test, and the many reasons why you shouldn’t plan a big app launch.
🔄 Continuous evolution over big bangs: For subscription apps, frequent updates create enduring value, outpacing the impact of sparse, major launches. This steady stream of enhancements keeps your app relevant and signals relentless improvement to your audience.
👨💻 Growth advocate at RevenueCat and indie developer of apps like Launch Center Pro and Weather Up.
[11:04] Just ship it: Don’t try to release a ton of new features at once — you’ll get more attention and benefits by releasing incremental updates.
[42:54] Dog-fooding the ’cat: David used several RevenueCat features (like Paywalls and Experiments) to set up and monitor the results of the Weather Up 3.0 launch. | |||
| The Future of Subscription Apps (Why We’re So Excited For 2024) | 11 Mar 2024 | 00:42:53 | |
On the podcast: RevenueCat’s 2024 State of Subscription Apps report, the state of the app industry more broadly, and why a slight drop in renewals in 2023 isn’t as bad as it may seem. Key insights: 📈 Optimize conversion rates: With a 1.7% average conversion rate from downloads to paying subscribers, there's a wide gap indicating room for improvement. North America shows higher conversions, spotlighting the need for regional price optimization. 🗓️ Persistence pays off: The top 5% of apps outearn the bottom quartile by 200 times a year post-launch. If year one is tough, consider pivoting or trying a new approach. 🗺️ Strategic focus is key: North America leads in app revenue, but don't overlook markets like South Korea, Japan, and India. Choosing the right platform and regional focus is crucial. 💲 Retention is crucial: A 14% drop in subscriber retention highlights the need for apps to focus on retaining users who truly value their service. It's vital to distinguish between loyal users and those less engaged. 📱 Reactivation grows with scale: While over 10% of churned subscribers resubscribe, reactivation becomes significantly more impactful as your app grows. Early on, prioritize acquisition and retention over win-back campaigns. About Guests 🎙️David Barnard is Growth Advocate at RevenueCat and host of this very podcast. 💻Jacob Eiting is the CEO of RevenueCat, a self-proclaimed computer person, and often co-hosts this podcast with David.
Episode Highlights
[7:12] The business of intelligence: AI technology leapt forward in 2023, and mobile AI apps saw big wins. [14:07] Stop guessing, start acting: The benchmarks in the 2023 State of Subscription Apps report can help you make data-driven strategic decisions. [17:37] The state of the (app) union: Five key takeaways from the report that identify industry trends, potential pitfalls, and emerging opportunities. [38:44] First impressions matter: Most trial starts occur within 24 hours, so make sure your user onboarding experience is compelling. | |||
| Building a Content Marketing Flywheel — Fares Ksebati, MySwimPro | 21 Feb 2024 | 00:53:31 | |
On the podcast: How to build a content marketing flywheel, the importance of content that’s inherently valuable, and why you shouldn’t give up on content marketing even if your early attempts only get a few views. 🛠️ Validate your app idea with minimal resources. Use a simple mock-up and some way to drive paid or organic traffic to gauge interest before development. Fares Ksebati tested demand for an app that didn’t exist by collecting emails via a basic website. This lean approach confirmed interest with over 200 sign-ups, showcasing an effective, low-cost validation method. 🌱 Startup accelerators: a selective boost for early ventures. For newcomers like Fares, accelerators are goldmines for skills in customer discovery and networking. They're most valuable for startups without a solid network or those aligned with the accelerator's focus. While they sharpen your pitch and connect you with mentors, their benefits may wane as your business matures. Choose one that fits your app's niche for the best impact. 🏃♂️ Content marketing is a marathon, not a sprint. Fares’s journey with MySwimPro underscores that content marketing requires patience and passion. Initially focusing on answering common swimming questions, the strategy wasn't about quick wins but building trust and brand over time. Early content may not drive immediate app usage spikes, but it lays the foundation for brand recognition and credibility. 💸 Great content transcends user acquisition and unlocks direct monetization. Establishing a significant online presence, particularly on platforms like YouTube, offers dual benefits: attracting new users and generating revenue through ads and brand partnerships. This strategy highlights the power of creating engaging, value-driven content that not only draws in subscribers but also opens additional revenue streams. 🔍 The biggest mistake when experimenting with paid acquisition is not having the right analytics in place. Success in paid acquisition hinges on robust analytics for tracking campaign effectiveness and the ability to quickly adjust strategies. Without confidence in attribution and the ability to iterate quickly, budgets can be wasted on ineffective ads and you won’t be able to scale. 💬 Effective value communication eases the shift from free to paid subscriptions. Transitioning users from free to premium features necessitates a clear demonstration of added benefits. While consumers are increasingly willing to pay for software, that comes with higher expectations. But it’s important to remember that some users will always complain about price, regardless of cost, while some will always be willing to pay for the most premium subscription. Getting pricing right is a constant balance of qualitative user psychology with data-driven insight.
👨💻 Co-Founder and CEO of MySwimPro, an app that provides personalized workouts and training plans for swimmers. 🏊 An accomplished swimmer himself, Fares created MySwimPro to help swimmers of all skill levels improve their performance — even if they don’t have a team or coach.
👋 LinkedIn Links & Resources: Episode Highlights: [3:41] Fake it ‘til you make it: In 2014, Fares validated the idea for MySwimPro by driving traffic to a website for an app that didn’t exist yet. [10:07] Don’t reinvent the wheel: Use tools that already exist (like Google and YouTube) to find what potential users are searching for and get the word out about your app. [19:38] Changing the channel: Your app should have a presence on the social channels that best fit the brand and marketing acquisition funnel you’re trying to build. [23:59] Content marketing pays off (literally): Monetize your marketing content with ads and brand partnerships for an additional revenue stream. [30:33] Start simple: These days, making great marketing content is easier than ever — all you need is a smartphone and an inexpensive microphone. [42:12] The price is… wrong?: Some of your users are willing to pay more than what you’re charging, and developing new pricing packages can unlock more revenue. | |||
| Apple’s Response to the EU’s DMA: What Developers Need to Know | 29 Jan 2024 | 01:07:36 | |
On 25th January, Apple published its guidance on how it would comply with the EU’s Digital Markets Act (DMA). The response, in keeping with Apple’s response to other demands for reforms, effectively disincentivizes most apps from taking advantage of the changes. The changes are complex and confusing, and the answer to whether apps should make changes isn’t completely black-and-white.
📲 The DMA Reforms How App Stores Work in the EU — The DMA mandates that app stores, like Apple's, cannot enforce the use of first-party app stores or in-app payment systems in the EU. Android already supports third-party app stores (sideloading), so Google’s focus has been on offering alternative payments via “user-choice billing”. For Apple, which does not support sideloading, the EU reforms have needed to be much more significant.
📱Gabriel Savit is CEO of Runway, a release platform for iOS and Android apps. Find Gabriel on X and on LinkedIn. 💲Nico Wittenborn is Founder of Adjacent, an early-stage VC firm. Find Nico on X and on LinkedIn. 😺Jens-Fabian Goetzmann is Head of Product at RevenueCat Links & Resources
[15:47] The Core Technology Fee (CTF), in the new terms, charges developers €0.50 per first annual app install on installs above the 1M threshold. This includes first annual reinstalls and updates, and it’s the CTF that is fundamentally making the economics of new terms unviable for most developers. [30:24] Why haven’t third-party marketplaces taken off on Android? It’s probably down to the size of the opportunity. Most apps, even if they’re multiplatform, make most of their money on iOS. Now that the possibility of third-party marketplaces is available on the most profitable platform, it suddenly becomes worth looking into. [41:41] There are instances where creating a third-party marketplace would be financially beneficial, such as a premium game distribution platform — higher-priced games ($20+) would negate the disadvantages shown by the CTF. [47:03] Unless things change, 99% of developers should probably not switch to the new terms. At best, it’s a bad idea, at worst it’s a huge distraction with the risk of owing Apple more in fees than revenue generated. There is a small subset of apps that could benefit, but those apps know who they are, and they’ll find a way to test the waters and mitigate the risk involved. [52:48] Another opportunity is the 600 new APIs that Apple is making available. It’s too early to say what that opportunity will look like, but there are likely to be some innovative third-party applications to come out of it. | |||
| How to Succeed with Freemium and Hybrid Monetization — Paul Ganev, Surfline | 24 Jan 2024 | 00:43:19 | |
On the podcast: The strategic pitfalls in modeling Total Addressable Market, how freemium should work, and why Surfline’s current success was actually 38 years in the making.
🎯SAM not TAM — The total addressable market (TAM) provides an overview of the market's potential size, but it's too general for strategic purposes. The serviceable addressable market (SAM) more accurately reflects the market portion you can realistically capture. $ Understanding Price Sensitivity — Price sensitivity involves three key elements: Purchasing power (your market's ability to buy), commitment (likelihood of investing in your app), and value proposition (the value your app offers). ⚖️The Freemium Balance — Success in freemium models hinges on balancing increased conversions with retaining free users. If prioritizing one over the other becomes necessary, focus on retention to allow time for app improvements. 📈Growing Freemium Conversion Rates — A small percentage of free users convert to premium. The strength of freemium lies in its potential for increased conversion rates as your app improves and retains free users over time. 🤝Monetizing Through Partnerships — For free users, displaying ads can monetize the audience that may not convert. For premium users, focus on partnerships offering exclusive deals or benefits to enhance value and average revenue per user (ARPU).
🏄 An avid surfer himself, Paul joined the Surfline team because he was passionate about the product. 💡 “The biggest issue that I see with most companies that are going out to market and putting together their commercial strategy is they'll use TAM and they'll model everything off of that… But in reality… it's really important to figure out what the serviceable addressable market is.”
[14:46] Different approaches to TAM: You can calculate TAM from the top down or bottom up, whichever makes more sense for your business. [19:04] The formula for price sensitivity: To effectively price your app, you need to understand (1) your users’ purchasing power, (2) your users’ level of commitment, and (3) the strength of your value proposition. [24:40] Keeping the “free” in freemium: Remember to balance conversions with free user retention — it’s much easier to convert existing free users than it is to acquire brand-new users. [37:48] Ads for all: Consider partnering with relevant brands to provide special offers to further monetize your paid subscribers. | |||
| Lessons from 121 A/B Tests - Kenneth Schlenker, Opal | 10 Jan 2024 | 00:47:16 | |
On the podcast: Scaling to $5M in ARR on paid ads, positive and negative results from 121 A/B tests, and why they still haven’t built an Android app. 💡 The Power of a Single Metric: Concentrating on just one key metric can be remarkably effective. In the early stages, it's common to take on too much. By zeroing in on a solitary metric, it becomes simpler to iterate and conduct large-scale testing. 👀 Subscriptions as a Market Fit Gauge: The subscription model acts as a litmus test for your app's value. Gating access early and observing if users are willing to pay offers clear evidence of your app's worth. 💬 Flexibility in Attribution Methods: There's no one-size-fits-all approach to attribution. Various apps adopt diverse strategies. Often, straightforward methods like asking users about their discovery path during onboarding can be the most reliable. 🤳🏼 Prioritizing Creativity in Paid Marketing: If your strategy leans heavily on paid marketing, expect to dedicate at least 80% of your efforts to crafting creative content. For smaller teams, collaborating with content creators and influencers can be an effective strategy for scaling. 📱 Choosing a Single Platform for Initial Launch: Easing early-stage challenges is feasible by focusing on a single platform. Many startups overextend by launching on multiple platforms simultaneously. Opting for a single platform, such as iOS, allows you to concentrate your limited resources on achieving initial milestones before considering a broader launch.
📱 Even though iOS includes screen time management tools, Kenneth and his team believed they could improve the experience – and that users would pay for it. 💡 “Essentially, if you get people to pay for your products… that's a pretty strong signal that you have something pretty valuable.” 👋 LinkedIn
Episode Highlights: [1:09] A three-phase approach: How the Opal team tackled building a subscription business for a screen time management app. [4:54] When ad spend is worth it: Opal implemented paid marketing from the beginning – and it paid off. [10:44] Attribution made easy: Sometimes the simplest method of finding out where users came from – just asking them! – is the most useful. [13:08] Contracting creatives: Consider hiring independent contractors who care about your mission to build your ad content. [17:22] From premium to freemium: Many apps (like Duolingo) start out free, then add paid subscriptions later. Opal is doing the opposite. [25:53] Work smarter, not harder: Releasing your app on a single platform (instead of iOS, Mac, web, and Android all at once) can save your team a lot of time and money. [30:07] Lessons from 121 A/B tests: Prioritize the bigger swings that will significantly increase your uplift early on. | |||
| How to Pitch Your App to the Press – Matthew Panzarino, Formerly TechCrunch | 27 Dec 2023 | 00:56:21 | |
On the podcast: How to pitch your app to the press, the importance of focusing on differentiation, and why customizing your pitch to an individual writer is so much more effective. Top Takeaways: PR for user acquisition (UA) is best suited for acquiring very specific users. If you’re looking for big numbers then there are better channels to use. But PR allows you to pinpoint your UA to reach smaller, higher-intent audiences, such as early adopters or power users, who help you fulfill a particular goal. When working with PR agencies or consultants, know what kind of outcome you’re after. For apps that just want to reach a wide audience, a firm focused more on outreach at scale might be sufficient. But most apps will benefit more from a strategist who will help craft deep meaningful stories over the long-term. When pitching, think about the writer, not just the publication. Find the writer who will have the greatest personal interest in your story — not only will your pitch success rate be higher, but the subsequent write-up will be much more meaningful and useful to you down the road. Keep your email pitch brief and your press-kit comprehensive. Use the subject line and body copy to highlight uniqueness; feel free to use images but keep it brief. Your press kit, however, should provide enough detail for the journalist to write their story out-of-the-box — but don’t go as far as to write it yourself. To effectively pitch your app to TechCrunch, specifically, focus on what sets your app apart. A well-executed idea with quality design is just the starting point. Elevate your pitch by highlighting unique features and differentiation. Adding personal stories can further enhance the appeal and depth of your pitch.
👨💻 Former Editor-in-Chief of TechCrunch. ✍️ With over 14 years of experience as a tech journalist, Matthew is an expert in the art of the pitch. 💡 “Those stories tend to be the most potent, valuable, and interesting long term, especially for early-stage companies. You convert somebody into a believer, a believer in the thing that you’re doing, the thing that you’re trying to accomplish, the mission that you have. And those writers will become sort of chroniclers of your progress over time. If you’re able to capture one or two of those [writers] ... to get into the minds and hearts of individual writers at a publication, it’s so much more valuable than, ‘Oh, we got covered by Publication X.’” 👋 LinkedIn Links & Resources:
[1:12] Pitch perfect: How to pitch your app to a tech reporter in a cold email (that they’ll actually read). [14:01] Stand out from the crowd: A competitor’s downtime or failure may be a good opportunity to market your app, but it isn’t enough — you need to highlight your app’s differentiating features, too. [18:05] Know your audience: Choose not only the right publication but also the right reporter to write about your app. [26:41] Broad versus targeted UA: Getting your app featured in a publication like TechCrunch can help you acquire a highly interested group of users (early adopters, power users, and people who will send you feedback). [38:12] The big leagues: What TechCrunch is looking for in a pitch. [45:15] To PR or not to PR?: Whether or not you should work with a PR firm depends on your app. [48:18] The whole kit and caboodle: Create a press kit that makes it easy for a journalist to tell your app’s story. | |||
| Why Most Apps Hit a Revenue Ceiling (and How to Plan for It) — Patrick Falzon, The App Shop | 11 Dec 2024 | 01:13:13 | |
On the podcast: estimating the revenue potential of an app, crafting an exit strategy, and why LTV is such a terrible metric. Top Takeaways: 📈 Portfolios over all-in strategies – Instead of putting all your effort into scaling one app, building a portfolio of smaller, successful apps can diversify risk and drive steady revenue. Portfolios give you the flexibility to test new ideas and spread your earnings across multiple use cases, avoiding the pitfalls of over-concentrating on one product. 🔍 When to expand features or create a new app – Apps with focused, singular value propositions tend to attract and retain users better than those overloaded with features. Before adding more functionality, ask: Does this align with the app’s core mission? If not, consider launching a complementary app to avoid cluttering your existing product. 🧪 Price testing without regrets – Effective price testing requires patience and precision. Run small tests, and use early retention patterns—such as trial-to-paid or monthly renewal rates—to model the impact on long-term subscribers. Always prepare for possible retention dips by planning worst-case scenarios to protect your bottom line. ✍🏻 Set up for a strategic exit – If acquisition is your goal, build your app to be buyer-ready. Private equity and strategic acquirers look for apps with clean operations, predictable revenue, and scalable systems. Crafting a clear differentiation and avoiding operational mess increases your chances of attracting high-value offers and makes the process smoother. About Patrick Falzon 📈 With extensive experience in app monetization and growth strategies, Patrick is focused on creating streamlined user experiences while identifying opportunities for sustainable scaling and market differentiation. 💡 “A big market is great only if you can take a substantial or specific share of that market. If it’s so competitive that you can’t garner any market share, it’s not actually valuable to you." 👋 Patrick on LinkedIn Resources Follow Us: Episode Highlights | |||
| The Subscription Value Loop: A Formula for Growth – Phil Carter, Elemental Growth | 13 Dec 2023 | 01:28:04 | |
On the podcast: Phil's Subscription Value Loop framework, what it means to create robust value for customers, and why A/B testing shouldn't be your first step in price optimization. Top Takeaways: 📈Quantitative growth models can help inform your growth strategy. These models are built around key user actions and growth loops incorporating variables like acquisition, retention, and monetization. They serve not just to align the company around common growth objectives but also as a tool to identify strategic leverage points for driving user and revenue growth. 📲The subscription value loop can model successful consumer subscription apps. This loop, devised by Phil Carter, is a framework for consumer subscription apps that focuses on value creation, delivery, and capture. It identifies the most impactful areas to allocate resources, aiding in decision-making for product development and marketing strategies. It emphasizes the importance of balancing value creation for the user with the business's need to capture value, ensuring a sustainable and efficient growth model. 🔁The 4Rs of value creation — robust, rapid, repeatable, remarkable — emphasize creating a product that solves real customer problems with strong product market fit, delivering value quickly, ensuring long-term engagement and value through repeatable benefits, and being compelling enough to spark word-of-mouth promotion. This framework guides in developing products that not only meet immediate user needs but also maintain their relevance and appeal over time. 💲Value delivery is efficiently connecting users to your valuable product. The playbook of relying on paid marketing to acquire users no longer works, due to increased app store competition and reduced efficiencies caused by ATT. The healthiest subscription app businesses are built on a robust organic acquisition strategy as a foundation, where paid ads are supplementary. 🎯The 5Ps of value capture — paywall, pricing & packaging, payments, promotions — focus on the strategic elements crucial for monetizing a subscription app. Paywall strategies should, as well as adopt general best practices, be tightly aligned with the nature of the app; pricing & packaging perhaps offer the greatest leverage for later-stage apps; payments is about an awareness of alternative payment methods and ensuring you have a clear and transparent payment flow; and promotions should be thoughtful and targeted.
👨💻Founder and CEO of Elemental Growth, an advising consultancy focused on helping app businesses unlock their potential. 🔁 Phil developed the Subscription Value Loop, a framework for understanding how to maximize growth in consumer app businesses.
👋 LinkedIn
Companies Phil has helped:
Episode Highlights: [0:44] From consultant to growth guru: Phil’s journey into the subscription growth world began with mission-driven app businesses like Quizlet. [5:25] What you need to know to grow: Any quantitative growth model will be “wrong”… but you’ll learn so much building one, you should still do it. [8:30] The Subscription Value Loop: A framework for identifying product-market fit, building a remarkable solution, and investing profits into shoring up your competitive advantage. [13:48] The 40% rule: Determine product-market fit by how disappointed customers would be if they could no longer use your app. [23:05] Perfecting the elevator pitch: A great app onboarding experience is snappy, immersive, and packs a punch. [33:32] Avoid churn: Build repeatable experiences designed to bring users back again and again. [38:24] Go viral: Find out how to get and keep your users talking. [45:37] Organic is healthier: In today’s crowded (and post-ATT) app stores, paid ads can’t realistically be your primary growth lever. [50:22] Keep the engine running: Balancing how much value you capture versus provide can be a challenge — especially when it comes to free users. [1:11:12] The price is right: How to determine the optimal packaging and pricing for your app. | |||
| How Ladder Cracked TikTok and Grew 500% — Greg Stewart, Ladder | 29 Nov 2023 | 01:16:49 | |
On the podcast: Profitably scaling TikTok ads, price optimization, and what the team learned from burning hundreds of thousands of dollars on Instagram ads. Top Takeaways 📈 Use Micro-Influencers for Early Growth: Niche influencers with between 10k-100k followers provide a direct source to a highly relevant audience. Ladder incentivized Instagram influencers, while the app was in a very early stage, by offering a revenue share; this reinforced the collaborative nature of the partnership and made it financially viable for Ladder. (00:02:39) 💲Adapt Your Pricing Based on Your Core User: Be adaptable with your pricing model based on customer research and feedback. Ladder shifted from a higher price point to a lower one as they learnt more about what value proposition was for their core users. To reach this conclusion, they surveyed their users and analyzed the data using Van Westendorp's pricing analysis. (00:19:36) 🕺🏽Maximize TikTok by Tailoring Your Content: Whereas on Instagram you’re gradually building up an audience, on TikTok you should assume posts are reaching a unique audience every time. This means content on TikTok needs to be made for TikTok — it needs to either entertain or educate, edited in the TikTok style, and should work in isolation without prior knowledge. (00:41:04) 🕸️Using a Web Funnel to Optimize Ad Spend: Ladder efficiently targets the right TikTok audience by directing them to a web quiz. This strategy quickly reveals user preferences, bypassing longer conversion funnels. By embedding pixels in quiz questions, they gain real-time insights into ad performance, enabling rapid optimization of ad spend. (00:49:38) 🪜 Building a Retention Mechanism within the App: By building your product around retention metrics, you’ll naturally build a retentive product. For Ladder, its use of team chats are wildly popular, creating accountability and motivation in its users. And because these social elements drive so much consistency and retention, they work hard on driving users to these chats as quickly as possible. (01:04:49)
📱CEO and Founder of Ladder, a fitness app dedicated to providing the world's best strength training plan from the world's best coaches, every single day. 💪 Greg took Ladder from zero to a million dollars in ARR with a zealous early focus on product iteration. 💡 “As a consumer business, I have learned that there is no muscle more important than growth — investing in growth, product-side growth, [and] retention. To have those learnings and that dial being controlled outside the building now makes no sense whatsoever to me.” 👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
‣ Connect with Greg via LinkedIn
[0:54] Covid obstacles: Ladder launched during the pandemic but was initially geared toward gym goers. Early UA wasn’t about focus on revenue, but on product iteration to validate product-market fit. [4:35] Loyal followings: Instagram microinfluencers were a key part of Ladder’s early strategy for driving UA — aiming for “perfect alignment” with fitness coaches. [8:34] Onboarding: Ladder had a specific method for recommending programming based on lead source. [12:41] From influencer to team member: The right partners were a fundamental part of Ladder’s success, not as a creator or tool-based platform but as a consumer business. [16:46] Hardcore product iteration: Greg and his team built a set of tools for coaches after they hit a million dollars in ARR. [22:54] Honest ad lessons: Instead of focusing on ad optimization and efficiency, Ladder asked how to tell the right stories to the right people. [24:40] Decreasing price: The team went deep on analysis before lowering the price, with a single-minded commitment to Ladder as a customer-based business. [30:35] New Year’s resolutions: A lack of growth following their best month ever mobilized Ladder to create a framework leading to effective growth loops. [34:07] TikTok tactics: With diminishing returns from their Instagram efforts, Greg and his team decided to forge a new path via TikTok, which ultimately paid off. [39:20] Money where your mouth is: “Organic is the best indication of winning content,” Greg says. But engaging content needs an effective CTA. The roundabout but telling answer is to understand your customer and provide value rather than paying too much attention to acquisition or monetization. [48:29] CTAs that work: To reel them in, be upfront and direct to customers — and offer verifiable results. [49:56] Hacking algorithms: Web quizzes are winners for identifying buyer personas, driving a critical move for managing spend. [57:05] Bye-bye, LTV:CAC: Payback period is much easier to grapple with than variables that are out of the control of the team, helping Ladder to iterate on its annual offering thanks to a good handle on retention. [1:05:06] High retention: Relentless focus on the customer’s view and experience is the key to driving UA and retention. [1:14:56] Skeptical prerogative: Rather than building copycats and raising money, ensure there’s a clear differentiator around which the entire business is built. That way lies growth and scaling. | |||
| Navigating App Growth Through Strategic Partnerships and Media Wins — Adam Allore, Wavve Boating | 15 Nov 2023 | 00:40:50 | |
On the podcast: Landing PR for a niche app, negotiating strategic partnerships, and pretending to have an app helped validate that he should build one. Top Takeaways 🚀 Validate Early and Build Smartly: Start by validating your app idea with minimal investment — even just an image or a spreadsheet. Once validated, focus on creating an MVP that delivers core value to your users, allowing for effective market testing and valuable feedback. (01:06—11:00) 🎯 Mix Up Your Early Marketing: Early on, explore a mix of marketing tactics, both paid and organic, such as Apple Search Ads and targeted PR. Adapt quickly to focus on strategies that drive early user growth and traction. (11:00—14:06) ✍️ Craft Ready-to-Publish Stories for Media Pick-Up: Develop complete, compelling narratives about your app. A story that's ready-made and engaging eases journalists' workloads and increases the likelihood of your app getting featured. (12:34—15:58) 🤝 How to Close Early Partnerships: When approaching potential partnerships as an early app startup, remember that you’re a risk, so highlight your business’s reliability and responsiveness. Be proactive and flexible in negotiations, demonstrating your commitment to deliverables and reducing perceived risk to partners. (17:02—22:55) 🌐 The Broader Impact of Partnerships: Recognize that the value of partnerships extends beyond direct metrics like user acquisition. They are instrumental in building credibility, social proof points, and establishing a presence in your niche, which leads to organic growth and further collaborative opportunities. (34:41—38:13)
👨💻 Founder and CEO of Wavve Boating, an app that provides a better marine navigation experience that’s easy, collaborative, and fun. ⚓ Adam initially wanted to build a nautical navigation map that he would use, until he organized himself a booth at a boat show that ultimately led to him building the app thanks to overwhelming positive feedback. 💡 “The quantity of emails that we got was one thing, but seeing people light up and get excited by the app and experience that I built was what gave me that confidence to quit my job, pursue this thing full time, and make the beta a reality that I was telling people about.”
‣ Connect with Aaron via LinkedIn ‣ Adam talking about the Wavve App ‣ Wavve Boating on X, formerly known as Twitter
[1:10] Ahoy, sailor: Working as an engineer, Adam realized that people struggled to read nautical navigation maps, which provided the inception point for Wavve Boating. [4:53] Fake it till you make it: Taking the scrappy route can sometimes be the best path to kickstarting your idea — even if it requires a bit of hustle. [7:26] Just build the beta: Even the bare MVP can be enough to attract investors and users. Unique product insight is where the margin really comes from. [11:18] Gaining traction: Adam took a shotgun marketing approach before landing on app-based PR hits with a promising community element. [17:15] Press power: Aaron assumed the initial press outreach kickoff would drive major user growth — it added value and drove recognition in the space (and yes, some user acquisition). [20:26] Proactive negotiation: Potential partners (especially large ones) may view small startups as a risk — subscription app developers should aim to mitigate that risk. [26:14] Basement finance plan: Panic led to solid planning as Adam reached out to the local angel network to raise capital and get things going, including a deal that represented his first foray into B2B sales. [29:24] Market flows: Deep link usage for the paywall was one thing, but what really paid off for the app was ensuring it was as easy to activate and use as possible. [32:05] DevOps on the cheap: Building for the addressable market of one company could pay off bigger if you take that idea elsewhere — if you know the business. Be careful about which projects you take on, as they may ultimately prove distractions. [35:00] Partner-driven UA: 25% of Wavve’s total UA comes from partnerships. But plenty of users come through untracked and organic channels. [37:29] Leveraging reality: Get the PR right, and landing partnerships can quickly snowball into further opportunities. | |||
| From Idea to 8-Figure Exit in 10 Years Flat — Aaron Foss, Nomorobo | 01 Nov 2023 | 00:57:59 | |
On the podcast: The ultimate freemium strategy, making low-risk bets with potentially asymmetrical outcomes, and how Aaron bounced back after almost running out of money. Top Takeaways 📐As an app startup, while in the early stages of growth, you need to find the one KPI that you’re going to choose to focus on. “Startups can do one thing, barely,” says Foss, so find the KPI that shows that your app is working as intended and that users are finding value. For Nomorobo, this was robocalls blocked; if this KPI grew, then the app was doing its job and users were signing up. 🚀 Not every launch needs to go off with a bang. For Aaron Foss, there’s too much that can go wrong. Soft launches allow you to launch when you’re ready, not when your deadline says you are. You have the benefit of seeing and catching bugs before your app becomes overwhelmed with users. 🌱 To grow organically, and only organically, requires that you find the growth “hacks” that leverage what you already have. For Nomorobo, this meant making use of a free web user base to promote the paid app; programmatic SEO landing pages built using the data they were collecting; and using that data to outreach to the press with relevant stories. 🔎 The benefit of growing slowly and sustainably is that constraints lead to greater focus. When raising money to accelerate your business, it’s easy to overextend and do too many things at once. A slow, gradual approach forces you to focus on what’s the most important thing right now. 🛣️ Freemium works best when you consider it a user acquisition path, not a revenue model, and when those free users deliver additional business value. Being free will bring you more users, but what else do those free users deliver to your business? For Nomorobo, free users on the landline side bring in data to improve the mobile product, which can then be upsold to turn free users into paid.
👨💻 Founder of Nomorobo, an app that stops annoying robocalls and spam texts forever. 💪 With a background in programming and an MBA, Aaron built an entire product to stop robocalls from the ground up. 💡 “This is Apple’s world: We just live in it. How insane is it to start an app company building an app that is against App Store rule?” 👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
‣ Connect with Aaron via LinkedIn ‣ Check out this Mixergy interview about Aaron’s entrepreneurship journey ‣ Read up on how Aaron beat robocalls for good
[1:25] The end of apps?: Aaron was between selling his last company and looking for the next challenge when the clarion call came from the FTC to tackle robocalls. [3:46] From telephony to commerce: For Aaron, $50K signaled that there was a big incentive to solve the problem of robocalls. The size of the bounty drove him to try to develop an innovative solution using existing technology. [12:26] Close to the chest: Getting a product out validates whether spending your life building it is a good idea or not. Aaron found that the only way to win the competition was using SimRing, but he didn’t go into detail when pitching it. [13:39] Post-win gameplan: Twilio (and a lot of negotiation) was the key to building the foundations of early Nomorobo. [17:44] Monetization turning point: As one of the first subscription apps with in-app purchases, Nomorobo’s inflection point was the introduction of mobile apps. It turned out that a price point of $1.99 was cheaper when running with Apple. [21:47] Big bang, no thanks: The demand to solve the problem of spammy robocalls meant Nomorobo never needed to do any paid acquisition. [25:43] Hiring decisions: Going from solo to building a team is never an easy leap. Aaron found that the first step was to break off customer support, and another key was to work with contractors while remaining small and scrappy. [30:59] Relaxed raising: The company found that raising on an as-needed basis worked perfectly well for their setup, but it didn’t come without its trials. Case in point: the white-knuckle $944 in the bank account that Aaron admits they were lucky to pull off. [35:16] Top growth levers: While Nomorobo never paid for advertising, it had to grow. How did it manage to, and why is landline protection still free? [42:38] Press management: With landline freemium strategy and programmatic SEO locked down, the next phase was managing press and getting featured by Apple. [47:41] Life-changing money: Like Frank Sinatra, Aaron did things his way. He shares the story of the eight-figure exit. [53:17] Value creation: If you want to run a business, it must create value. The more value you create, the more money you make. | |||
| App Optimization Through Experimentation — Hannah Parvaz, Aperture | 18 Oct 2023 | 00:40:27 | |
On the podcast: How to profitably scale performance marketing, hard vs soft activation, and why you should keep an extra close eye on your marketing spend in November. Top Takeaways ⬇️ To effectively scale your performance marketing, grasp your app's funnel from the top down. Start by honing in on app installs, enabling both you and the algorithms to learn. Progress down the funnel — optimizing for different app events as you go — but be prepared for corresponding budget hikes. Throughout this journey, continually test and iterate. ⏲️ Test your ATT prompt timing, starting with first app launch. While the ideal placement for an ATT prompt may vary per app, consider starting your tests with the prompt at first app launch. Surprisingly, this timing has shown minimal impact on sign-ups, trials, and conversions in some cases. Use this as a baseline for your own tests to find the most effective timing for your app. 🎨 Feed your always-on campaigns with rigorously tested ad creatives. Start with a control and multiple variants differing in one element. After identifying the best message, test it across various design formats. This iterative process builds a portfolio of effective creatives for your always-on campaigns, where you can, ideally, leave them untouched as you continue the testing process. ⏯️ For a clear view of product-market fit, track hard activations. These are meaningful actions — such as listening to multiple stories — that reveal user commitment. Don’t make the mistake of thinking a trial-start makes a user engaged. Use these insights to refine the user journey. Make it as easy as possible for users to reach the desired level of engagement. 🍂 Master the seasonal ad cycle: November is a tough month for ad spend, so pivot to awareness campaigns to navigate the rising costs. Come December, particularly after the 15th, you’ll find a rebound in favor of digital products as e-commerce spending drops. This period, often referred to as “Q5,” is also an excellent time to leverage gifting strategies and New Year messaging.
👨💻 Founder of Aperture, a full-service growth partner making good companies better by helping them to change the world in a positive way. 💪 Hannah has helped hundreds of apps grow, and was previously recognized as a 5-star mentor at GrowthMentor, taking home both App Marketer of the Year and Consultant of the Year awards. She previously worked with learning app Uptime, narrated journalism app Curio, drink app DUSK, and music app DICE. 💡 “Every app is different: Everyone needs different levels of success, but also everyone has a slightly different strategy.” 👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
‣ Interview with Hannah on Business of Apps ‣ “Tips for Creating the Right Mindset for Business Growth” interview with Hannah Paravaz ‣ “How to talk to your customers in order to make winning ads with Hannah Parvaz”
[2:01] Personal growth marketing: Former IBM CEO Ginni Rometty said, “Growth and comfort do not coexist.” Hannah feels this is true of her professional trajectory — an encouraging reminder for everyone in the app space. [5:02] Scaling performance marketing: The first question you need to ask is, How are you measuring what you’re scaling? [8:25] The measure of success: Hannah recommends A/B testing and analytics to build out funnels. [11:05] Post-ATT ad performance: Experimenting with creatives relies on specific goals and tests based on one control and multiple variants. Lots of experimentation and analysis are the keys. [16:02] Conversations with customers: Android’s Google Play store isn’t quite as stringent as Apple’s App Store, but customers need to know how many trials and installs they’re aiming for in order to maximize the growth they need. [18:17] Subscription focus: Hannah takes a blended perspective to subscription apps, looking at funnel steps and where the biggest opportunities are, then moving into product. [20:52] Action hierarchy: Developers need to figure out how many first meaningful actions and core actions must take place for users to truly activate. [25:31] Finger in the air: Tracking ROI in the early stages ****is a guessing game, but once reality matches expectations, the activation average always becomes clear. [31:26] The blended perspective: Optimizing performance starts with looking at each channel in isolation and closely monitoring performance. [34:31] All the leaves are brown: Halloween brings a curse that lasts throughout November — a tough season for marketers and advertisers. Costs skyrocket, then drop on December 1 for “Q5,” which lasts until the beginning of January. | |||
| VC Funding vs. Bootstrapping for Subscription Apps — Martín Siniawski, Podcast App | 04 Oct 2023 | 00:40:35 | |
On the podcast: Spinning off a new product from secondary product market fit, the journey of getting into YC, and the give and take of raising venture capital. Top Takeaways 🥾 Ground expectations for launching a bootstrapped business — prepare for years of challenges and minimal initial revenue while adapting, learning, and growing over the long term. 💰 Bootstrapping versus raising capital depends on you: Venture capital accelerates growth but increases accountability and responsibility, and you need to decide how you want to grow and whether you want to take that on. 📚 The B2B success playbook is about customer retention and iterative improvement, while B2C is high-risk, high-reward. Early success is harder, so tailor your approach and expectations based on the landscape. ➗ Diversification is a double-edged sword, and being a multi-product app business is still a challenge, making focus crucial. Leverage existing user data and resources to identify truly synergistic opportunities, while staying true to your core mission and expertise. 📱 Diversified app growth means balancing cross-promotion and unique growth strategies — but not all distribution tactics translate seamlessly between apps. About Martín Siniawski 👨💻 Co-founder and CEO at Podcast App, a fast-growing podcast player now backed by Y Combinator (W18). 💪 Having founded Streema with 10 million monthly users, Martín is now focused on scaling paid acquisition at Podcast App. The two apps have a combined 100 million downloads. 💡 “My first rule of multi-product companies is to try not to become a multi-product company.” 👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
‣ Connect with Martín on LinkedIn ‣ Connect with Martín on X, formerly known as Twitter ‣ Listen to Martín on From Zero to 1M
[2:37] Wandering in the desert: Bootstrapping Streema was the perfect way to learn and make mistakes. [6:10] Masochistic motivations: Getting momentum going with Podcast App came from Martín and his co-founder observing a growing trend of people moving from radio to podcasts. [10:03] Rise and fall: The first attempt to raise funding failed, thanks to a hard-nosed interview. [15:36] Interview prep round #2: The second interview at YC went much better for Martín and his co-founder with the help of hindsight from their bootstrapping experience — and a lot of thought. [17:32] How big do you want to grow?: Involving other people introduces higher stakes and more responsibility, but it can also seriously accelerate your business. [20:52] B2B vs. B2C: Martín and Jacob differentiate between the two ways of doing business. [26:09] YC interview tips: Martín dives deep into the second interview. [29:07] Winning SEO optimization: Initially focused more on ads, the Podcast App doubled down on subscriptions and recently became a multi-product company with 130,000 subscribers. [35:05] Distribution speedrun: Acquiring users has come naturally for Martín and his co-founder, and he considers distribution to be a major factor in a successfully executed vision. [37:47] CAC LTV as product-market fit indicator: Martín is focused on making it work — the bottom line is whether or not they have a viable business. | |||
| Building the Berkshire Hathaway of Consumer Subscriptions — Eric Crowley, GP Bullhound | 20 Sep 2023 | 00:52:35 | |
On the podcast: The B2B opportunity for B2C apps, the App Store alone being bigger than most Fortune 500 companies, and which current or future company will build the Berkshire Hathaway of consumer subscriptions. Top Takeaways 📱 The App Store ecosystem is far from saturated. With a nearly doubled revenue from content being purchased since 2019 and hosting close to a billion subscriptions, the Apple App Store shows that there's still plenty of room for growth and opportunity. Despite debates about consumer fatigue, these numbers signify an ecosystem that is not only surviving but thriving. 👮 The regulatory spotlight could spark change in App Store fees. Amid increasing pressure from global and domestic regulators, the question looms: Will Apple and Google adjust their app store fees? If they do, it's not just a legal win, but also a potential cash flow boost for app developers. The decision could also be a tactical move for Apple to win back transactions currently lost to alternative payment systems. 🤝 The boundary between B2C and B2B is becoming increasingly fluid, offering a new avenue for growth. Brands like Peloton and Headspace, which thrived in the B2C space during the pandemic, are now venturing into B2B. This isn't a pivot but a strategic expansion, rooted in the belief that what consumers love, businesses will too. This trend underlines the potential of consumer-centric design in unlocking new business opportunities. 3️⃣ The Three C's: Content, Commerce, Community. Companies face three key challenges: acquisition, conversion, and retention. Content lures in users, commerce seals the deal, and a robust community keeps them coming back. It's not just a formula; it's the backbone of today's thriving subscription apps. 🤔There are untapped categories ripe for disruption. While we often see a couple of dominant brands taking over established categories like dating or fitness, there are still numerous untapped markets in the consumer subscription space. Categories like Femtech and family management are just the tip of the iceberg, presenting just a few examples of the opportunities that await innovative apps.
💼Partner at GP Bullhound, focusing primarily on mergers and acquisitions, capital raises, and advisory transactions for technology companies. 📈 With more than a decade in investment banking and edtech growth, Eric focuses on transactions for U.S. and Europe-based growth-stage CSS, adtech, digital services, and fintech companies. 💡 “Who's the Apple of female health? Who’s the brand you go to that is by far the best, [where] you don't question it, you buy it? There isn't one. There should be one, and — for something that happens millions of times a year — why isn't there an Apple of female health?” 👋 LinkedIn and X, formerly known as Twitter
‣ Check out the CSS 2023 report ‣ The evolution of consumer subscription apps ‣ What venture investors look for when buying an app
[2:05] Doubling iPhone numbers: Apple’s consistently high growth sees 90 billion in profits this year. [6:23] Apps are the internet: More people want to use apps over internet sites thanks to superior UX and UI, signaling more investment into apps. [10:27] App economics: Consumer trends clearly indicate that apps have a lot more room to grow. [15:01] Regulator attention: The growth of in-app purchases is pressuring Apple and Google to open up payments. [21:48] Berkshire App-away: From textiles to hundreds of over $300 billion in revenue in 2022, the trajectory of Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway portends what may soon happen in the app world. [26:39] Making M&A waves: Eric talks through some recent significant CSS buyouts. [29:12] B2B2C: B2B and B2C are blending, with movements between the two showing what Eric calls “growth extension,” rather than pivoting. But will they cannibalize each other? [34:46] Three Cs: Content, commerce, and community are leading to more UGC. [41:11] Becoming the Apple of X: So-called “category killers” show where the greatest potential for success in the app space lies. [49:44] It could be you: Nearly 80% of companies featured in the annual CSS report raised or sold for a great exit. | |||
| How To Raise Prices (the Right Way) — Reid DeRamus, Substack | 06 Sep 2023 | 00:37:02 | |
On the podcast: whether or not to increase your price, how to execute if you do, and why price increases often impact growth more than retention. Top Takeaways 💳 Should you raise your app’s prices at all? It’s one of the most impactful ways of increasing lifetime value and revenue so the answer is yes: you should definitely consider raising prices. But it’s a balancing act. How do you not sacrifice long-term growth for short-term gain? 🌟 Avoid customer backlash by reaffirming the value proposition. Asking people to pay more for the thing they’re already getting is a tough sell, so reaffirm your value proposition by simultaneously launching new or teasing upcoming features ****to avoid customer backlash. 💰 Look at your retention metrics to determine whether or not to raise prices. Above-average retention metrics might indicate that you’re leaving money on the table and should consider a price increase — but if they’re not healthy, focus on product and retention first. 📈 Price increases tend to affect acquisition more than retention. Strong price increase execution means less churn from existing subscribers, with a little more pressure on new user acquisition. 🏆 Add tiers to give users options and strategically raise prices. Bundle higher tiers with extra features or introduce lower tiers for your core user base. About Reid DeRamus 👨💻 Growth PM at Substack, a newsletter publication platform that provides writers and creators with infrastructure, payment, analytics and design to publish their work and send to email subscribers. 💪 Reid helped launch and grow Hulu, Crunchyroll, and HBO Max, taking his learnings and starting a company called Yem that helped individuals and small teams build their own media empires. Yem was then acquired by Substack, where Reid is now a Growth PM. 💡 “I need to figure out the value that my existing subscribers are getting [and] make sure I'm reinforcing that. But I also need to be mindful of how it'll slowly expand from my core audience today, too, if I want to continue driving subscribers.” 👋 LinkedIn | X, formerly known as Twitter
‣ Boosting Retention with Better Onboarding ‣ Improving Retention with Audience Surveys ‣ Connect with Reid at LinkedIn ‣ Reid on X, formerly known as Twitter ‣ Substack on X, formerly known as Twitter
[1:13] Price increase: Raising prices is a great way to boost customer lifetime value and revenue but executing it well is a balancing act — with tradeoffs. [5:40] Consumer sentiment: Asking customers to pay more for the same product is a tough sell. Take a cue from the standard set by Netflix and Spotify by teasing changes and with marginal — not double — increases. [9:26] Subscription 101: Substack is a great analogy for consumer subscription apps. Health metrics can be “too good,” with writers significantly underpricing their work and not aggressively marketing. [17:22] Surveys: Surveys don’t only help establish core price, but also what the most passionate fans might pay relative to core subscribers. [19:18] Be sure to tier: Streaming platforms and a few pioneers in the subscription app space are leading the way in what is likely to become the default business model within the next five years. “Not all subscriptions are created equal,” Reid highlights. [22:42] Hitting the ceiling: At what point are you bumping up against your total serviceable market? [24:46] On reaching 12 million: Having a deep relationship with your audience can pay off much more than having the best video player, payment engine, website or app. It’s about persistently asking how you can deliver more value. [27:51] Back to surveys: Figuring out where core users are finding value comes from surveys via Google Forms, or face-to-face on Zoom calls. [31:47] Balancing act: There’s no universal right answer to drive business growth. Early on, find initial traction with a relentless focus on product-market fit. | |||
| App Store Ethics, Dark Patterns, and Rule-Breakers — Steve P. Young, App Masters | 23 Aug 2023 | 00:46:14 | |
On the podcast: “Black hat” app optimization, the benefits and drawbacks of hard paywalls, and why, despite Apple and Google’s best efforts, so many apps still use dark patterns and even blatantly break the rules. Top Takeaways 🎩 Lots of (even the top) apps continue to deliberately break app store rules — even if you don’t break them too, you need to know what black hat strategies you’re up against. (3:46, 13:25) 🔍 Running “keyword install campaigns” mobilizes a large number of people to search for a particular keyword and download the app, tricking the app store algorithms by increasing app relevancy — and rankings — against that keyword. (7:21) 🔐 Don’t be afraid to lock down more content, use a hard paywall, or get more “aggressive” with paywall visibility. If people can use an app for free, they will. (18:59-37:09) 📊 Opinions don’t matter — data does. There are contrasting approaches to onboarding and monetization, so test what’s right for your app and look at the data. (40:01) ✅ Fully optimize your onboarding and your paywall through tinkering, then stabilize to drive revenue via the top of the funnel. (45:46)
👨💻 Founder and CEO of App Masters, an app marketing agency that helps grow apps faster, better, and cheaper. 💪 Steve has spent over a decade growth hacking millions of app downloads, and knows the black hat strategies many top apps use to game the system. 💡 “My opinion does not matter. Everything is based on data.”
‣ Connect with Steve at LinkedIn
[1:40] Knife to a gunfight: App Store ethics aren’t cleancut. How can you play by the rules when so many apps are using dark patterns to get ahead? [5:03] Do what you gotta do: Black hat strategies like review-buying are just too tempting not to use in the journey from zero to one. [8:31] Relevant hacking: Keyword install or boost — similar to ASO — campaigns are still possible to get higher in keyword rankings — as long as you have the right keywords. [13:25] Legal disclaimer: Even if you don’t like cheating, knowing what competitors are doing is crucial to planning your own strategies. [14:43] Very edgy: Steve dives into his top “edgy things” for increasing visibility and revenue. [18:59] No hard paywall: When a growth hacking tactic yields thousands of organic downloads, why put in the X? Data talks, until Apple comes around. [26:16] AI wall: Given the costs of running AI models, you’re giving away value if you don’t have a hard paywall. [29:48] Scammy territory: There’s a fine line between bannable black hat strategies and gaming the system. [34:52] Lock it up: Steve suggests locking as much as you can behind a paywall: Beware giving away value for free, and always look at the data. [40:01] Your opinion does not matter: Keywords tell us which apps to build. | |||
| From Consultancy to $10M in ARR — Vince Mayfield, TalkingParents | 09 Aug 2023 | 00:47:03 | |
On the podcast: The right way to raise prices, the painful lessons from picking the wrong tools, and why you should respond to every single app review. Top Takeaways ✍️ Start surveying as soon as you start developing, and don’t stop. Identify your MVP by understanding customers early on, and develop new features with key customer insights when you’re growing. 📈 Bundle extra value if you must raise prices to soften the blow of a tough sell and demonstrate attentiveness to customer needs. 🧰 Cheaper, easy-to-integrate tools might not scale on infrastructure and unit economics, which could lead to a painful re-engineering process down the line. 🏗️ Plan for scalability from the start by adhering to solid software engineering principles and ensuring your tooling integrations are easily switchable. 🤑 Provide premium support for a premium product price. Respond to every store review — each interaction leaves a lasting impression on customers and drives loyalty. About Vince Mayfield 👨💻 Co-founder and CEO of TalkingParents, an app that helps divorced or separated parents manage communication and share responsibilities. 💪 Vince and his partner jumped from professional services to building a scalable app with $10 million in ARR. 💡 “People like to compartmentalize elements of their life and they don't want to have a million apps.” Links & Resources ‣ Connect with Vince on LinkedIn ‣ TalkingParents on X (formerly Twitter) ‣ Get TalkingParents from the App Store ‣ Get TalkingParents from Google Play Episode Highlights [1:35] Origin story: Making money while we sleep is the ultimate goal — Vince talks about how he moved from agency to product company to $10 million in ARR. [4:44] From hired gun to product growth: Lack of app monetization and not understanding customers early on may make pivoting to a product focus challenging. [7:59] Risk management for risk mitigators: How do you make money from the court system? Easy: Switch focus to the real customers. [10:32] Freemium tinkering: Vince dives into the app’s early strategy for monetization and subscription — burning through close to $1 million in the process. [12:59] Chartered surveying: When it seems like an app is charging too little, asking customers what features they want and need is the ticket to nailing down value. [15:59] Downhill slalom vs. uphill climb: Raising already low prices can be delicate, but bundling additional value with a rollout often softens the blow. Look for opportunities to layer on deeper value. [28:33] Nudges and needs: From surveying to app instrumentation, Vince and his partner had to understand the customer journey before making the right moves. [32:08] The ultimate tool belt: Not paying attention to how apps can scale from the very beginning is an easy mistake for app developers to make — especially when using tools. [38:28] Best-in-class assessment: Starting with best-in-class tools isn’t always doable, but adopting good software engineering techniques as you go is a satisfactory quick fix. [41:28] Lightning round: Vince talks about why support matters and how that translates into running a business and customers’ responses. | |||
| How V1 Sports Doubled Revenue with Bold Bets — Alex Prasad, V1 Sports | 27 Nov 2024 | 01:00:49 | |
On the podcast: the power of user segmentation, executing bold strategic shifts, and why imaginary customer conversations are sometimes better than real ones.
⏳ Bold decisions can pay off - Switching longstanding free features to paid access generated friction but ultimately led to a 90% revenue growth, proving that sometimes taking risks is necessary to drive business viability. 🌐 Focus on ideal users for long-term success - Alex highlights the importance of catering to highly engaged users who find value in the product, ensuring sustainable growth while reducing churn from less committed users.
👨💻 CEO of V1 Sports, a leading provider of video golf swing analysis software and seamless video lesson solutions for golfers and instructors.
Resources - Alex Follow us on X:
Episode Highlights [2:10] Adapting for success: How V1 Sports, a 30-year-old technology company, became a leader in video golf swing analysis by adapting to market changes. [5:48] Trials and tribulations: Why V1 Sports switched from freemium to free trials, and the challenges it created. [10:32] Keep it simple: How simplifying monetization can lead to new revenue opportunities. [17:15] Bold bets and backlash: Asking long-time users to pay for previously free features and navigating the resulting backlash. [24:30] Segmentation wins: How V1 Sports identified key user needs, like finding a coach, to create tailored solutions and increase engagement. [30:22] Innovation meets tradition: The challenges of preserving legacy app features while modernizing your product to meet new user demands. [36:48] Critical feedback: The dreaded one-star review can be an opportunity to improve and grow your business. | |||
| What it Takes to Succeed with Paid User Acquisition — Thomas Petit, App Growth Consultant | 26 Jul 2023 | 01:19:22 | |
On the podcast: Setting sensible goals for paid marketing, how to measure and learn from the results, and why a single ad creative can completely change the trajectory of a company. Top Takeaways 🥅 Set clear and realistic goals before investing in paid UA — and make sure you can afford to experiment. It can be tough to get to ROAS positive, and even tougher to get that return quickly. 💰 Monthly ad budgets should ideally start at $10-20k for big, algorithmic platforms — increasing data volume for optimization — while lower budgets call for exploring non-algorithmic platforms and influencer marketing. 🤔 Successful ads are built on in-depth, comprehensive user understanding, including their triggers and responses to different messages — before investing in advertising. 🧪 Test and iterate radically and substantially in the the quest for the ideal creative: Promising concepts need further refinement and tweaking, especially given the unpredictable nature of what might work. 🤝 Focus on conversion rates, not just high user engagement for ad campaigns — low conversion can negatively affect overall performance, and ad platforms like Facebook and Google aim for a balance between engagement and revenue.
👨💻 Independent subscription app growth consultant. 💪 Thomas has worked with hundreds of clients and helped manage tens of millions of dollars in ad spend. 💡 “Know your expectations and know what you're after… a lot of people don't ask this question in a deep enough way.”
‣ David’s talk at Mau Las Vegas ‣ Revisiting the Fundamentals of App Marketing Post IDFA — Thomas Petit ‣ Check out MADV - Mobile. Ad.ventures on Substack ‣ Connect with Thomas on LinkedIn ‣ Connect with Thomas on Twitter ‣ Get involved in the Sub Club community
[2:50] Minimum viability: What does it take to start making paid UA work? The answer depends on what you want to achieve with it. [9:44] The early bird catches the worm: If you know what you want from the get-go, Thomas explains why starting paid UA early might not be a bad strategy. But only gamble what you can afford to lose. [14:00] A word on Facebook: If running on a tight budget, Thomas “strongly recommends against” buying ads on Facebook because of targeting and demographic challenges. [18:44] Cash moves everything around: The guardrails around scaling on algorithmic platforms necessitate a five-digit monthly budget minimum. Below $10-20k a month you’re operating in a very tough spot. [24:57] Good Ol’ Google: Operating on low budgets, choosing keywords for Google searches may still work. Using a simple landing page builder is an avenue to explore — but only very early on when you need to assess SEO and imagery. The three checks are: goals, cash, and ARPI. [31:31] Scaling paid UI: Thomas goes deep into how to scale paid UI, and how MMPs and SDKs play into that. [39:56] The measure of success: It’s critical to assess evolving trends based on changing spend. But attribution isn’t (and never was) an exact science. Look at whatever tools you have at your disposal for an estimate. [45:39] His toolkit: Thomas talks about the tools he uses for modeling incrementality across product and subscription lifecycle events. [53:44] Let’s get creative: With growing automation, getting ads right is crucial. Messaging, USP, and understanding your audience all factor into effective ads. Don’t rely on intuition. [1:05:01] USP: There’s no secret formula for a single, winning USP, but you need to test it to understand what users react to. [1:09:41] Spanning the gap: Some successful ads are indirect and don’t transition. The relation between downloads and transitioning is a tough nut to crack, but teasing and explicitly explaining it’s an app are good ways to try at least a slight transition. [1:13:26] Clickbait install rate: Beware of the delicate interplay between clicks, reduced install rate, ad spend, and ROI. | |||
| Achieving Mission & Profit with Freemium — Erin Webster-Shaller and Paul Apollo, Lose It! | 12 Jul 2023 | 00:45:08 | |
On this episode: balancing mission and monetization, the challenges inherent to referral programs, and why Lose It! had to abandon a big push into paid user acquisition. Top Takeaways 🆓 Excellent free products need a large user base to upsell — messaging millions of users about special offers can deliver fantastic returns. (10:32) 🚂 Extend onboarding for increased trial engagement by asking more personalized questions to boost trial start rates and tailor the user experience. (14:43) 👏 Celebrate user success to drive word-of-mouth marketing and organic growth, while strengthening the bond between users and your brand. (25:47) 🥇 Encourage setup of premium features during trials while carefully A/B testing each feature for user resonance. (31:49) 🏃 Identify key actions to boost user conversion with the power of data analysis: Target users with discounts or special offers to entice them to upgrade to a premium subscription. (36:29)
👨💻 VP of Marketing at Lose It!, one of the first health and wellness apps on the App Store. 💪 Erin has been responsible for determining whether new features should be premium or free, as well as running A/B testing for messaging. 💡 “There’s a lot of gimmicks in the weight loss industry: We try to be authentic and real with what this product can help you do — but also not oversell it [and] promise something that isn’t realistic.”
👨💻 Senior VP of Operations at Lose It!. 💪 Paul has been with the company for nine years and has spent nearly that entire time in growth marketing. 💡 “We want to make sure that there is an excellent free product available for anybody who wants access to it.”
‣ Connect with Erin on LinkedIn ‣ Connect with Erin on Twitter ‣ Connect with Paul on LinkedIn
[1:45] Mission-driven: Lose It! founder JJ Allaire was tracking calories on a spreadsheet when the App Store was born. Increasing satisfaction for happy users aligned perfectly with the app’s growth. [6:18] No monetization: The app went from being totally free to freemium. The team didn’t even dabble with ads until very late in the game. [7:28] Buying out Series A investors: Lose It! was so profitable it became fully founder- and employee-owned when it was acquired in 2022 by Ziff Davis. [9:22] The feature adoption journey: The team doesn’t test locking features, but they do A/B test messaging and positioning. Apps and Devices is a big crowd-pleaser, Paul explains. [14:02] Loss aversion onboarding: When Lose It! noticed inexplicably longer onboarding, they tested with more questions, which snowballed into significant success. Adding premium features to onboarding didn’t have the same effect. [20:58] 135 million-pound loss: 50 million users came primarily from consistent word-of-mouth growth and organic acquisition. Experimenting with paid acquisition in 2019 didn’t work out. [25:47] Pushing word of mouth: Erin explains how the company gets people to “spread the good word” to lose more, although experimentation showed that referrals aren’t a silver bullet. [31:49] Lifecycle messaging: Paul jumps into the strategy of exposing freemium users to premium and keeping premium users engaged. [38:07] In-app messaging: Lose It! experimented with in-app messaging versus email blasts. | |||
| Cultivating Organic Growth with Viral Loops — Guillem Ros Salvador, Hevy | 28 Jun 2023 | 00:40:58 | |
On this episode: We talk with Guillem about how Hevy got traction early on, growing without paid marketing, and why you might not want to raise your price, even if customers would pay more.
🏛️ When shaping your MVP, establish a clear framework to guide your product development. Particularly for small teams or those bootstrapping, maintaining a lean approach is crucial. Identify your product's three core pillars, which will inform your decisions on which features to retain or eliminate. 🪞 Do you believe if you build it, they will come? That might be the case occasionally, but launching a new app can prove challenging. A practical initial strategy, covering roughly 80% of your bases, is to mirror successful competitors: target the same keywords, implement similar tactics. This isn't a long-term strategy, but it will position you ahead of those who do nothing and attract an initial user base. 🤝 When developing a social app, be cautious about how pricing changes might undermine user trust. If your app is predicated on social sharing, frequent or radical pricing experiments could incite negative discussions among your users. However, if you consistently offer good value, your users are likely to share this positive sentiment. 🪴 Cultivating organic growth early on primes your app for sustainable expansion, with paid acquisition serving as an effective boost. Growing primarily through organic strategies – such as social viral loops or App Store Optimization (ASO) – ensures your app's growth is not overly dependent on costly advertising, which can influence your pricing model. 🤹One of the perks of building a small team? It facilitates a concentrated focus on what's best for the product. While the allure of the indie route – keeping things super lean with minimal costs – can be tempting, it can hamper your growth scale. A team not only brings in diverse skills but also provides a buffer between product ideation and implementation.
👨💻 CEO and co-founder of Hevy, a leading gym workout tracker and planner app for iOS and Android. 💪 Guillem and his co-founder took the basic idea of Strava to create a community-focused weightlifting app. Hevy has been downloaded more than two million times so far. 💡 “We try to take in as much feedback as possible. We ask for feedback all the time inside the app, and we're always in contact with users by email. That seems to be a great way to just gather feedback.”
‣ Read about Guillem’s journey ‣ Connect with Guillem on LinkedIn ‣ Connect with Guillem on Twitter
[2:06] Building dreams: After five years of app building, Guillem learned from failures to move from mobile gaming into fitness (as both a hobby and a profession). [5:28] Pain point analysis: Moving from triathlons to the gym, Guillem realized the missing ingredient was community. [7:45] Rapid 1.0 ship: Ruthless cutting and asking the key question of what the real MVP is was the key to shipping quickly. Tracking, analytics and social were the foundations of their MVP. [13:25] Burgeoning communities: Sometimes, single-digit downloads are the spark you need to get going — and that can give you insight, understanding and word-of-mouth growth. Then, one day, the communities pop up. [19:00] Ramen profitable: Within a year and a half, Guillem was working on Hevy full-time. Germany’s unemployment benefits went some way in helping him get there. [23:09] Two million downloads: Compounding word of mouth and a slew of New Year's resolutions vaulted Hevy to the next level — sustained with a good product. [26:22] Pricing thoughts: Guillem and his partner quickly realized that because Hevy was higher-quality and more social than competitors, they could keep the price low and still turn a profit. [29:53] Near-zero acquisition costs: Even the behemoths didn’t pay to acquire users in the early days. [34:44] Hiring management: Hevy’s team of 10 keeps operations lean while broadening their vision more than Guillem and his partner could alone. | |||
| How Headspace Optimized Revenue by Gating Content — Shreya Oswal and Keya Patel, Headspace | 14 Jun 2023 | 00:43:46 | |
On this episode: The evolution of Headspace’s freemium model, balancing mission and monetization, and why referral programs sometimes work better without incentives. Top Takeaways 💰 Don’t be afraid to experiment with gating 100% of your content. Not only can this result in a significant lift in paid users, in cases where an app requires some effort from the user (such as with meditation), getting them committed with a free trial early on can boost engagement levels versus free users. ⚠️ Promoting your strongest performing plan at the expense of your others doesn’t always have a positive effect. Let’s say your annual plan might display the best performance in terms of revenue or retention, giving it too much prominence can cause lower intent users to sign-up for it, leading to fewer trial-to-paid conversions. In these cases, giving users choice could produce the best results. 👪 Users on family plans can show the strongest retention rates. When users subscribe to your app as part of a family or group, there’s a degree of accountability involved: if one member is using it, then the others are less likely to want to cancel as a result. 🗣️ When designing onboarding experiences, think about the product and lifecycle messaging together. Having the option of communicating with users both in and out of the app means you can get more creative with your onboarding — for instance, offering a “prize” for completing the first month, and using email to remind users when they’re lagging behind. 💬 Some apps will benefit from referral schemes that are less transactional. Rather than receive some monetary reward, some apps’ users are more motivated by the intrinsic reward of being helpful. But you can experiment with more unique benefits for being a top referrer, such as exclusive content or in-person events**** About Shreya Oswal and Keya Patel 👨💻 Shreya is Senior Director of Product Management, Membership at Headspace, and Keya is the former Director of Product Management, Growth. 💡 Shreya: “Bringing that free trial online and letting users choose for themselves was a big win for the business and a big win for members in terms of picking the right product for them.” 💡 Keya: “Experimenting with the extreme of what happens if you condense onboarding as much as possible and ask for a conversion moment or an upsell [works] from a data perspective. So it wasn't necessarily a failure.” 👋 Shreya on LinkedIn | Twitter Links & Resources ‣ How Freemium Can Outperform Free Trials – Shaun Steingold, Momentum Labs ‣ Connect with Shreya on LinkedIn ‣ Connect with Keya on LinkedIn
[1:53] 80/20 rule: Keya talks about Headspace’s evolving freemium strategy where 80% of their content was locked behind a paywall. They tested the effect of locking even more content — with a positive impact on conversion. [6:26] Big shoes to fill: Shreya’s follow-up experimentation involved locking 100% of content, with a high double-digit lift. To attract long-term users to switch, they offered a 75% discount. [8:22] Costco sample strategy: Headspace wants to continue to experiment by giving users a taste of what they can benefit from. [10:58] Freemium do’s and don’ts: Building habits and engagement comes from commitment and early skin in the game. [13:04] Price testing: Keya dives into the experiments and results of Headspace’s price testing efforts. [16:18] Annual versus monthly: Where Keya left off with annual subscription efforts, Shreya picked it up from a net new, lower-intent monthly angle. [20:55] Package experimentation: The ideal length of time for a free trial isn’t immediately clear when switching from free content with a paywall and no trial. [24:24] Propensity model: Shreya breaks down what a propensity model is and how to build it. [26:18] Student and family rollouts: Not everyone necessarily had the same access or ability to pay for Headspace — while revenue matters, so does company mission. [30:47] Onboarding failures and wins: Additional questions in testing led to lower drop-off rates — from single-select to multiselect reasons. Both very short and very long onboarding failed. [35:08] Product and lifecycle interactions: Keya explains how communication outside the app opened doors for incentivization within the app. [37:44] Referral revamp: Headspace found intrinsic, less transactional referrals to be more effective in the long run. | |||
| Hitting 2M Downloads Without Funding, Employees, or Learning to Code — Ania Wysocka, Rootd | 31 May 2023 | 00:37:25 | |
On this episode: the one small tweak that increased revenue 5X, growing an app organically, and how hiring an ASO consultant actually tanked downloads. Top Takeaways 💰 Not all problems can be solved with money, so see if you can fix your own problems internally — like team communication — before paying for external help. 💡 Highly relevant ASO keywords with lower search volumes are a better bet for engaging audiences earlier and seeing snowballing success. 🌅 Putting a paywall early enough in the onboarding process might just supercharge revenue and growth. 📰 When you don’t have an advertising budget, start with local journalists and tie press releases to key events in the year. 🌳 Organic referral mechanisms — ****like screen sharing success and milestones — can be very effective while enhancing user experience. About Ania Wysocka 👨💻 Founder of Rootd. 💡 “I‘m so obsessed with the user experience, that it's important to work with others who also are obsessed with user experience.”
‣ Connect with Ania on LinkedIn ‣ Connect with Ania on Twitter
[1:31] Strong roots: Ania created Rootd not as a result of surveys or user research, but in response to her own personal need. [8:31] Contract buzzkill: Working with contractors can be a challenge — alignment of values is the key. [10:13] Fundraiser tales: If you haven’t hit a wall in development, it might not yet be time to seek investment. Fixing internal processes first can pay dividends later. [12:53] Early ASnOwball: Sticking with keywords that might initially yield lower volumes can ultimately drive traffic that helps your app snowball. Ania found contracting ASO counterproductive. [17:49] Dialing in the funnel: A paywall at the beginning of the onboarding process increased Rootd’s revenue by five times — with no negative feedback. [20:55] Get their attention: Local journalists love to promote local business stories, and tying stories to specific world events can work wonders when there’s no advertising budget. [25:03] Apple Editor’s Choice: Sometimes it pays to be as persistent as possible in submissions for getting featured. [28:20] Paid marketing experimentation: Don’t pay for marketing until you’re ready to experiment. | |||
| Product Lessons From a Profitable, $20M ARR Subscription App — Jesse Venticinque, Fitbod | 17 May 2023 | 00:38:31 | |
On this episode: the trap of building for existing subscribers, incentivizing word of mouth, and why paid marketing should be an accelerant, not the foundation of your growth strategy. Top Takeaways 📱 Growth comes from focusing on product retention: Build a product users really want, creating an engaged customer base and fueling the growth loop down the line. 🗣️ Build a viral growth loop based on word-of-mouth. A product that exceeds user expectations is the ultimate way to drive word-of-mouth — even if your app isn’t naturally social. 👥 Paid advertising is an accelerant to user acquisition (UA) — not your sole UA channel. It should come after product focus and word-of-mouth virality. 😀 Measure and improve retention by finding your minimum engagement milestone. Look to your ICP for clues. 🙅♂️ Talk to your users who aren't subscribers. There's a tendency to focus user research on super-users, but they won't tell you much about why others aren't subscribing. About Jesse Venticinque 👨💻 Co-founder and chief product officer of Fitbod, a fitness app offering workouts that improve as you do. 💡 “There’s a trap of listen[ing] to super successful, engaged customers as a clue for what the unsuccessful customers are missing.” Links & Resources ‣ Work with Fitbod (Currently hiring a Core Experience Lead PM!) ‣ Connect with Jesse on LinkedIn ‣ Connect with Jesse on Twitter Episode Highlights [2:07] Solving a personal problem: The business has grown largely on revenue alone, thanks to what Jesse calls a “maniacal focus on product retention” and a goal of challenging the status quo. [5:56] Catching a big break: The key to scaling was pioneering a subscription model based on AI and machine learning, as well as having the right product-market fit by tapping into a “secret hiding in plain sight.” [8:26] Money in the bank: Although they found themselves in an underdog industry, the Fitbod team crucially found investors who aligned with their mission and values. [12:06] Viral growth loop: Word of mouth is still a major growth driver for Fitbod today — especially given that Fitbod isn’t a naturally social product. They’re also considering content as another growth loop, both blog-based and user-generated. [15:40] Hooking them in: The best consumer companies have discrete, repeatable actions to create a habit loop. Reward visibility and shareability are critical components of this. [17:58] Referral science: Offering free referrals is a way to understand and measure the growth loop. This approach also offers hard data, whereas word of mouth is more challenging to measure. [20:29] Everyday workout: Driving retention requires deep analysis of the metrics, like when users are canceling before the end of subscription periods and account dormancy. [26:27] Leverage = focus: When retention is good, focusing on conversion and activation is a viable way to drive mass adoption. [28:44] Contextualizing feature requests: Once you establish your ICP, scale and own the market for that audience. Then, build for the non-ICP. [31:32] Digging into activation: Jesse explains that user research is critical to avoid focusing too much on the most engaged users at the expense of less engaged ones. [35:09] The depth of need: Before building a feature, identify a participant pattern with (at least) medium confidence. Then you can develop a hypothesis. | |||