Mindy Caliguire welcomes Jeff Gokee to Soulcare Conversations to discuss the crucial intersection of spiritual formation and leadership.

Jeff, a pastor for 27 years, shares his personal journey from a life spent in "go mode" and fulfilling others' dreams to a turning point that demanded soul health.

This transformation began when, at age 40, he asked the invasive question, "What if it's me?".

His path included six years of counseling, discovering that he had repressed all emotions, and a harrowing cancer diagnosis (which miraculously disappeared).

The doctor's words—"You're really sick... and your mind has told you you're fine"—served as a dramatic wake-up call from God. Jeff realized he had never asked God for help for himself.

His experience led him to embrace the idea of "not wasting the pain" and relaunch his non-profit, Phoenix One, with a new mission: to help church staff and leaders get healthy in their souls and relationships.

He explains how leading from a place of "nothing to prove and no one to impress" allows him to prioritize people and service over achievement and scale.

Jeff and Mindy discuss the challenge of bringing implementation and pathways to soulful leadership and how Phoenix One's services, like the Love Well assessment app and staff health evaluations, are providing safe spaces for honesty and healing within church organizations.

In this episode of Soul Care with Mindy, Mindy Caliguire speaks with qualitative researcher Lacey Mason about their project focused on the soul health and flourishing of missionaries and pastors in the Global South.

The research aimed to understand the state of soul health in this group, particularly given the high rate of attrition and reports of people leaving the field deeply unwell, sometimes experiencing PTSD. The goal was to understand how supporting organizations and churches can be better partners.

Lacey Mason shares key findings from the 37 interviews conducted with missionaries and pastors, who were primarily driven by a profound sense of gratitude for their salvation and a desire to serve God with their whole self, often leading to a willingness to make great personal sacrifices.

This devotion often created implicit narratives where ministry work was viewed as external to one's own life ("out there" versus "here"), making their agency, value, and spiritual growth secondary to serving others.

The research found that practices like prayer and Bible study started to function as "fuel" for the engine of service rather than practices for one's own soul health.

This mindset can lead to a "can't stop, won't stop" work mentality, or a striving posture, which is often reinforced by the actual immense burden of responsibility in the field (where there are more laborers to be done than labor).

When this "flywheel" of constant work becomes imbalanced, missionaries start to exhibit warning signs of burnout, with the greatest deficit reported being relational. This isolation and loneliness is amplified because missionaries often fear sharing their interior struggles—such as those related to marriage, emotion, or spiritual life—with their team or leaders, believing it could cause people to lose confidence in them.

Many participants expressed deep gratitude to the researchers for the opportunity to talk, saying, "Nobody ever calls to check on me".

The path forward for those experiencing disruption and burnout involves a journey from striving to abiding. To find this new path, relational support and a non-judgmental guide are essential. This support helps them identify and rework false narratives about themselves and God (e.g., God is not just a CEO interested in performance), leading to an integration phase marked by soul-care rhythms, embracing human limitations, and a redefinition of success as relational and small-scale impact (one person rather than 900).

The episode concludes with five core insights for sending organizations:

1. Timing matters: Early introduction to soul health makes missionaries more likely to stay in the field.
2. Perspective matters: Transformation is cyclical, not linear.
3. Intentionality matters: Organizations embracing an abiding narrative have personnel with a smoother path toward integration.
4. Behavior matters: Leaders' actions influence permission to engage in soul care more than their words (the "silent curriculum").
5. Relationship matters: The primary need is for restorative, impartial relationships, and the safest guides are often outside third parties, not people within the sending organization.

In this episode of Soul Care with Mindy Caliguire, the speaker, joined by Lacey Mason, discusses the key findings from a "listening tour" that led to the team's full-time venture into vocational soul care work. The conversation centers on four key learnings:

• The Deep Refusal and Inflection Point: There is a growing, deep refusal to continue in the "business as usual" culture of driving and burning out, marking an inflection point for leaders across various contexts.
• The Future is About Integration: People long for an integrated life where their soul health, body, mind, work, and faith life are not isolated in different "buckets" but are supportive of one another, allowing them to fulfill their callings from a different place.
• Confusion and Suspicion: The topic of soul care is often met with confusion about its definition and suspicion that it could lead to the end of one's career, or that it is a "selfish" pursuit. The hosts clarify that caring for one's soul is not selfish but a first-order priority that enables an overflowing, integrated life.
• The How Matters More Than Ever: The approach to discussing soul care is critical, as the topic can easily be interpreted as legalistic or a critique that a person is "failing," rather than a gracious invitation. The hosts encourage listeners to "do as you can, not as you can't," and to recognize that God's presence and connection are available to everyone, regardless of their circumstances.

The episode concludes with the reading of the poem "The Interim Time" by John O'Donohue.

Welcome to the first episode of Soul Care Conversations with Mindy Caliguire, and teammate Lacey Mason. 

Mindy and Lacey share their personal burnout stories and discuss the growing conversation around soul care, particularly the tension between "jet fuel drinkers" (high-capacity leaders) and "candle lighters" (spiritual formation people). 

Lacey, a qualitative researcher, shares her deep exhaustion and decision to earn a master's degree in spiritual formation and leadership from Friends University. 

Mindy recounts her "wakeup call" after being completely sidelined with physical neurological symptoms while church planting in Boston. The episode closes with a moment of silence and prayer.

In this episode, we sit down with Daniel Norris, a missionary, technophile, and HubSpot solutions partner who has been a vital part of the Soul Care team for over five years. Daniel shares his unique journey - from growing up in a missionary family in New Zealand and Hawaii to pioneering youth ministries in Australia.We dive deep into the intersection of technology and faith, discussing Daniel’s recent experiments with "vibe coding" AI-driven apps and his philosophy of "human-finished" work. We also explore the critical importance of healthy rhythms, the courage it takes to advocate for a sabbatical, and the power of consistency in a high-stakes, digital world.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome and Introduction to Daniel Norris00:56 - The LinkedIn Layover: How the Partnership Started02:51 - A Kiwi Upbringing: Growing up in Global Missions06:59 - Finding Faith and Surfing in Australia10:14 - Early Technophile: Building Websites and Editing Video in 200213:50 - Influencing Youth Culture: Pioneering Youth Street17:42 - The "Plentiful Harvest": The Need for Multiplying Ministry21:32 - Communication vs. Noise: Learning to Value Feedback26:38 - Marriage and the Gift of Slowing Down31:24 - The Sabbatical Decision: Choosing Obedience over Policy41:34 - Soul Care’s Evolution: From Vision to Impact44:33 - Navigating the AI Frontier: Choosing Hope over Doom55:25 - The Framework: Human-Inspired, AI-Assisted, Human-Finished57:57 - Vibe Coding: Building Apps at the Speed of Thought01:09:10 - The Master Craftsman: Precision, Logic, and Innovation01:16:38 - Saying "No" to Good for Great: Leadership Principles01:23:23 - Consistency as a 40th Year Milestone01:26:06 - How to Connect with DanielResources Mentioned:Soul Care Journal App: A digital companion to the physical 90-day journal.https://apps.apple.com/us/app/soul-care-journal/id6760571093Dialed Shots App: Daniel's custom-built espresso logging app for coffee enthusiasts. https://apps.apple.com/kz/app/dialed-shots/id6760679055Culture Index: The personality assessment identifying Daniel as a "Master Craftsman".https://www.cultureindex.com/HubSpot: The platform where Daniel serves as a Solutions Partner.Claude (Anthropic): The AI tool Daniel recommends for its advanced coding and reasoning capabilities.https://app.hubspot.com/Connect with Daniel: Visit danielnorris.com or find him on LinkedIn.https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielrnorris/

In this episode of Soul Care Conversations, host Mindy Caliguire sits down with David Zimmerman, publisher at NavPress, to discuss the intersection of leadership, organizational identity, and personal soul care.

David shares the journey of leading NavPress through an "Ezra Year" of restoration and explains how "The Message" paraphrase of the Bible continues to shape their mission today.*

Episode Chapters 00:00 – Behind the scenes and setup

01:41 – Welcome David Zimmerman, Publisher at NavPress

03:41 – The history and mission of NavPress

06:49 – Connecting with The Message Bible

14:23 – Finding yourself: Insights from The Message

18:48 – The dangers of comparison in leadership

23:02 – Announcement: *Ignite Your Soul* now in Spanish

26:52 – Navigating identity: The "Ezra Year" at NavPress

32:27 – Bold, Loving, and Sensible: A new tagline

37:46 – Leading through crisis: Global supply chains and contracts

42:32 – Overcoming isolation: Therapy, coaching, and spiritual direction

48:42 – Standing fearless on the "Cliff Edge of Doom"

52:27 – The power of play: From sitcom readings to the ukulele

56:45 – Closing thoughts and book giveaway

Resources Mentioned

Book: Ignite Your Soul by Mindy Caliguire. https://www.soulcare.com/ignite-your-soul

Spanish Edition: Enciende tu Alma.https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Mindy-Caliguire/dp/B0FD7R14KB

Bible Translation: The Message by Eugene Peterson.https://messagebible.com/

NavPress: The publishing ministry of The Navigators.https://www.navpress.com/

Church Connect: Resource for churches to purchase books in bulk.https://www.church-connect.com/

Connect with the Guest

David Zimmerman: Find him on LinkedIn for his weekly "Monday in The Message" posts. https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-zimmerman-6410a03/

NavPress: Visit (http://NavPress.com) or follow them on social media.

In this episode, host Mindy Caliguire is joined by longtime friend and advisor Jason Malec to discuss the deep integration of spiritual formation and leadership.

Jason shares his personal journey from a Catholic upbringing to a period of severe deconstruction during seminary, and his eventual move into church planting and leading major non-profits.

The conversation explores the manifestation of fear and stress in a leader's life, the power of breath prayer, and a thoughtful perspective on how AI can be used for human flourishing.

00:00 Introduction to SoulCare Conversations

05:30 Jason’s Journey into Ministry and Early Faith

10:10 Deconstruction in Seminary: The Metaphor of Dangling Garments

14:48 Finding Safe Spaces for Doubt and Prayer

19:07 Four Phases of Spiritual Development

22:20 The Power of Breath Prayer and the Jesus Prayer

25:22 Creating Safe Places for Seekers

27:23 The Physical Manifestation of Leadership Stress and Fear

33:02 AI and Faith: Confronting the Singularity and Existential Fear

37:52 Redemptive Technology: AI as a Mirror of Human Character

41:11 The Future of AI in Human Flourishing and Disease Correction

42:59 Trusted Resources for Faith and Technology

45:16 Connecting with God through Sacred Pathways

49:30 Closing Remarks and Contact Information

Resources Mentioned

Thomas Merton’s Prayer:A prayer about the comfort of not knowing everything and the desire to please God being enough.https://reflections.yale.edu/article/seize-day-vocation-calling-work/merton-prayer

Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas: A book exploring the diverse ways individuals connect with God (e.g., naturalist, intellectual, activist).https://garythomas.com/books/sacred-pathways/

The Jesus Prayer: A traditional breath prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Prayer

Links & Connections

Jason Malec: You can connect with Jason at ide8.org or find him on LinkedIn, where he is currently running a series on AI and human flourishing.

Jeremy Utley: For more on technology and faith, visit jeremyutley.com or listen to his podcast (details available in his web resources).

SoulCare Conversations: Join the mailing list for weekly scripture engagement and guidance.

For nearly 50 years, the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) has served as the "gold standard" for donor trust among Christian organizations.

However, a new crisis of confidence is emerging that goes beyond financial numbers to focus on the health of the leaders themselves.

In this episode, the President and CEO of ECFA and the Senior VP of Member Accountability discuss the groundbreaking Excellence in Leader Care Standard.

They share personal journeys, from life-altering accidents to the "messy middle" of organizational change which led to the realization that the health of an organization is inseparable from the health of its senior leader.

00:00 – Introduction to the intersection of spiritual formation and leadership.

01:58 – The 50-year legacy of ECFA and the "blue seal of trust".

03:57 – Origin story: How Billy Graham and other leaders formed ECFA to address a national crisis of confidence.

06:21 – Adopting a redemptive posture: Moving from "policing" to coaching and building up the church.

08:51 – The heart behind the mission: Why accountability accelerates the gospel.14:16 – Breaking down the Excellence in Leader Care Standard: Requiring boards and leaders to co-create annual care plans.

18:15 – Biblical foundations and practical commentary for holistic leader care.

20:51 – "As the leader goes, so goes the organization": Why leadership health is the foundation of integrity.

27:51 – Resilience in the "messy middle": Staying the course through organizational change.

34:02 – Michael Martin on hitting the wall and finding God’s strength in weakness.

41:56 – Jake Lapp’s T-Bone moment: When a physical crisis forced a new reliance on the Creator.

50:31 – The "Trickle-Down" effect: How board-level care for a CEO transforms the entire staff culture.

56:11 – Shifting from legal preparation to speaking from the heart.

Resources Mentioned

ECFA Official Website: https://www.ecfa.org

10Leader Care Standard: https://www.ecfa.org/leadercare

Connect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ecfaccountability/

Mindy Caliguire sits down with Randy Cochran to discuss the "jet fuel" world of high-capacity leadership and the essential, often overlooked, "candlelight" work of soul care. Randy shares his personal journey from a place of professional success but deep internal desperation to finding a sustainable, integrated life with God.Together, they explore what it means to lead a staff toward health, the significance of spiritual direction, and why every leader is ultimately responsible for the condition of their own soul. Whether you are leading a large organization or simply trying to navigate a fast-paced life, this conversation offers practical wisdom for moving from "organizational anorexia" to holistic flourishing.Resources Mentioned in this Episode:Victory Church (Atlanta): victoryatl.comSoul Care Resources: Strengthening Our Souls (SOS)https://www.soulcare.com/pathways/str...Books:The "Surrender to Love" trilogy by David Benner.Works by Henri Nouwen.Leadership & Wellness:Steve Cuss (Managing Leadership Anxiety).ECFA Standards for Excellence in Leader Care.Key Moments:00:43 - Overseeing high-capacity teams in a "jet fuel" environment.06:34 - Leading out of desperation vs. inspiration.09:02 - Lessons from a first sabbatical.11:41 - Taking responsibility for your own soul care.27:12 - The concept of "structural integrity" in leadership.32:46 - Introducing spiritual direction as a staff benefit.51:48 - A vision for integrated, mature believers in the workplace.

In this episode of SoulCare Conversations, Mindy Caliguire is joined by author, bookstore owner, and longtime friend of SoulCare, Shawn Smucker. They discuss Shawn’s diverse career as a writer and entrepreneur, and explore how he maintains the well-being of his soul amidst the challenges of life and business.Topics Covered:The Power of Books: Shawn shares his lifelong love for reading and his belief in the unique, intimate impact a well-written book can have on a person's life compared to other forms of media.Facing "Soul Crashes": Shawn opens up about a particularly suffocating season in 2014 when the pressures of managing a new business, raising six children, and experiencing family loss led him to a breaking point.Practices for Resilience: To navigate difficult times, Shawn relies on the strength of his local community and a consistent daily habit of physical handwriting in a journal to process his concerns.The Journey to Becoming a Writer: Shawn discusses his transition to full-time writing in 2009, his experience with co-writing and ghostwriting, and the inspiration behind his first novel, The Day the Angels Fell.Creativity and Soul Care: The conversation touches on the importance of creating without being fixated on outcomes, treating the first draft like a personal journal entry to serve one's own soul rather than just commercial success.Building Community Through Independent Bookstores: Shawn shares the story of purchasing "Nooks" and the vital role physical bookstores play in fostering cross-cultural conversations and "co-regulating" in a disembodied digital age.Shawn's Substack: https://substack.com/@shawnsmuckerBookstore: Nooks Gallery (Instagram: @noooooks)Support Local Bookstores: bookshop.org/shop/nooks

In this episode, we continue our conversation with leadership expert Kadi Cole, diving deep into the intersection of spiritual formation and organizational leadership. We explore the journey from "striving to abiding" and how a leader’s interior life serves as the essential source for everything they do.

Kadi shares insights on:

The Broken Rung: Why many female leaders struggle to transition from high-productivity roles to positions of relational influence.

Renewable Resources: Shifting the leadership mindset to view people not as expendable commodities, but as renewable resources to be nurtured.

The Three Circles of Leadership: Navigating the complex overlapping dynamics of Community, Cause, and Corporation within a ministry context.

Leading Without Apology: Overcoming the "likability tax" and the pressure to play small in order to be respected.

Connect with Kadi Cole:

Website: www.KadiCole.com

Books:

Developing Female Leaders

Find Your Confidence

About Soul Care Conversations:

Soul Care Conversations is dedicated to exploring the vital connection between leadership and spiritual formation, helping leaders move toward a life of deep integration and healthy mission.

Mindy and Kadi have known each other and been in the same rooms for many years at different leadership events, conferences, and large churches. Now, they consider themselves friends.The conversation focuses on the important intersection between leadership, life, contribution, mission, and one's inner life, or soul formation.

Kadi's Podcast:Female Church Leaders Podcast: https://thefemalechurchleaderspodcast.buzzsprout.com/

You can learn more through Kadi Cole’s leadership resources here: https://www.kadicole.com/

The Critical Journey – Janet Hagberg https://www.janethagberg.com/critical-journey-book.html

Real Power – Janet Hagberg https://www.janethagberg.com/real-power-book.html

Soul Care Ministry https://soulcare.com

Exponential Conference https://exponential.org

Leadership Network https://leadnet.org

Willow Creek Association https://globalleadership.org

The Navigatorshttps://www.navigators.org