Wrestling with God is a normal part of the Christian faith. We can’t grow in our relationship with God without questioning Him. But many of us run from hard questions or feel discouraged and angry when the answers we find are not emotionally satisfying to us. This week’s guest, Lisa Fields, has a conversation with the Perrys about learning how to wrestle well with God instead of leaving the faith.

Check out Lisa’s new book When Faith Disappoints: The Gap Between What We Believe and What We Experience. 

Follow Lisa on social media: https://www.instagram.com/lisavfields

Visit Jude3Project.org to learn more about the Christian apologetics organization Lisa founded  to help Black Christians specifically know what they believe and why they believe it.

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Have you ever thought you were a better Christian than other Christians? We can all be self-righteous at times, but it’s bad theology. We can’t compare our spiritual maturity to that of other Christ followers, who are also flawed human beings – we must compare ourselves to Christ. In this episode, the Perrys walk us through the theology that moves us to have more gracious, less judgmental spiritual walks.

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Trauma can show up in all relationships, not just romantic ones. And “friendship trauma” may sound dramatic, but experiences with others can legitimately affect your view of yourself, even the concept of friendship in general. In this episode, the Perrys talk about what it looks like to be a good friend, and how we need to work through past hurt and doubt to engage in future, healthy friendships.

This episode of With The Perrys is Sponsored by:

https://lifeway.com/ephesiansstudy — Join us as we study through the book of Ephesians.

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When a man named Brian Dye started coming to Preston’s poetry events, Preston admits he didn’t trust him. But Brian had a burden to see young believers walk toward sanctification, and he felt called by God to help Preston to cultivate his influence. Brian’s pursuit of Preston and their ongoing discipleship relationship is the topic of today’s episode. Jackie, Preston and Brian discuss the pastoral nature of investing your life into someone else’s life and teaching as you go, and how discipleship doesn’t require creating a new program.

Follow Brian on Instagram at @visionnehemiah and @hoodheroes773. Also, check out Legacy Conference with events this fall in Chicago, Colorado Springs, Miami, and Houston.

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When it comes to women in ministry who know a thing or two about studying the Bible, Jackie and her two guests, Jasmine L. Holmes and Melissa Kruger, have a ton to offer. On this episode of With The Perrys, they sit down to discuss a new Bible study resource called Ephesians: A Study of Faith and Practice. Jackie, Jasmine, and Melissa talk about the way they went about writing this Bible study together so that we can more clearly understand how we are oriented to God through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Ephesians study will be released in June 2024. Learn more about it here.

This Episode of With The Perrys Sponsored by:

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Other resources:

Parenting with Hope: Raising Teens for Christ in a Secular Age by Melissa Krueger (released in April 2024)

Yonder Come Day: Exploring the Collective Witness of the Formerly Enslaved by Jasmine L. Holmes (coming September 3, 2024)

Let’s Talk podcast

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Can we be honest? This episode almost didn't happen because The Perrys found themselves in a funk when it was time to record. Jackie admits she’s recently felt as though she’s been holding back the hand of depression. Preston reflects on spiritual opposition he’s felt during this busy season with projects and upcoming plans. So, what does it look like to fight back against anger, irritation, or sadness? It looks like leaning into spiritual disciplines – to the degree you have the strength to do them – and finding community with one another, as they model in today’s episode.

This Episode of With The Perrys Sponsored by:

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Ezekiel & Kiyanna Azonwu have been married for 15+ years, and in this episode they talk with the Perrys about things like attraction, discerning who to pursue romantically, maintaining intimacy in marriage, and flourishing in Christian community. Did they get married too young? Is it okay to care about aesthetics? Would better discipleship in the church lead to healthier marriage relationships? Together, the Azonwus and the Perrys tackle these and many more questions about sex, dating and beauty.

For more conversations like these, check out the Azonwus podcast, We Need to Talk, on YouTube, and follow Ezekiel and Kiyanna on Instagram: @wordsbyezekiel and @thisisglory

This episode of With The Perrys is sponsored by: 

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Pride is an illusion wrapped in a lie, and it's in each of us. It’s our desire for total independence from our Creator, and it makes us feel good because we feel secure and capable. But it never satisfies in the way we think it will. In this episode, Preston and Jackie discuss how keeping God as our reference point is the only way to embrace true humility.

This Episode Sponsored by:

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Preston operates in a number of roles: husband, father, evangelist, apologist, poet... and now, he's added "author" to the list. The Perrys discuss the spiritual opposition he experienced writing his first book and why they believe the enemy didn’t want this book to reach the world.
 

How to Tell the Truth isn't a book that teaches you how to evangelize "like Preston." It's a book that robs every believer of the excuses that keep them from sharing the Gospel. Here's the good news: you don't need seminary training to tell the world about Jesus.
 

How to Tell the Truth: The Story of How God Saved Me to Win Hearts, Not Just Arguments releases on May 21, 2024. Pre-order here: https://preston-perry.com/how-to-tell-the-truth

This Episode Sponsored by:

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In celebration of a decade of marriage, Jackie and Preston react to their wedding video and reminisce about everything from Jackie’s dress and “flower distributors” to whether or not Preston cried as she walked down the aisle and the reason they were late for their own reception. After laughing through their recollections of that day, the Perrys talk about the importance of their friendship and the beauty of learning to love one another unconditionally.
 

This Episode Sponsored by:

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Even if we’re in Christ, we can find ourselves being drawn back into former strongholds of sin and fleshly desires. The world may feel fun, but some of our “fun” has Satan attached to it, and we need deliverance. Jackie and Preston discuss the idea that we love perverted versions of pleasure – not the real thing God wants to give us. But there’s hope. If we are in Christ, we’re being sanctified every day as God regenerates us, giving us new desires, new thoughts, and new perspectives.

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The story of the woman at the well is a lesson from Jesus about how to do ministry. Jesus leads with His humanity and His neediness, is curious about the woman’s life, and exposes her sin to reveal her need for God. Jackie and Preston talk through common preconceived ideas about this story and how we – like the woman – can be set out on mission after simple yet impactful encounters with Christ.

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How do you steward your influence? This is a valuable question for every Christian. If you’ve been called out of darkness into His marvelous light, that is your platform to display His goodness. You have influence, even if you’re not a public figure, and others are watching. The Perrys discuss what it looks like to steward your time, finances, resources and relationships too.

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What's destructive, expensive, and detrimental to your soul? Porn. If we had eyes to see how many demons are behind pornography, we would run from it. If we knew how much the devil delights in it, it would not be appealing to us.

By the grace of God, Preston has been freed from pornography for three years, and he shares his experience in this episode. God is a loving God. If you run to Him for help, He’ll sustain you.

Find one of our first YouTube conversations on the topic here: Soooo, about pornography.

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The church in America has mastered the art of gathering people, but discipleship is often lacking. Dr. Eric Mason joins the Perrys for a conversation on cults and other cultural ideologies.

Grab Dr. Mason’s latest book, Urban Apologetics: Cults and Cultural Ideologies: Biblical and Theological Challenges Facing Christians

Connect with Dr. Mason:

• PastorEMase.com
• @pastoremase on Instagram

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A well-known pastor and radio host recently came under fire for his public opinion on attending the wedding of a same-sex couple, and it got the Perrys talking. How can you be faithful to Jesus while caring for and honoring people? This conversation starts at the foundation of the issue: knowing what you believe about God and marriage before discerning your ‘yes’ or your ‘no.’

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Resources:

1: Christianity Today, "Alistair Begg Meets the Politically Correct"

2: Does the Bible Support Same-Sex Marriage? by Preston Sprinkle

3: Gay Girl, Good God by Jackie Hill Perry

4: Finding the Right Hills to Die On by Gavin Ortlund

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Before penning books, the Perrys penned poems. In this episode, Preston and Jackie give us a behind-the-scenes look inside a few of their favorite pieces. From Jackie’s testimony poem to Preston’s proposal poem, prepare to be immersed in a world of imagery, word play, alliteration, and so much more.

Watch the poems:

My Life as a Stud

Covenant

One Flesh

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The thought of writing a devotional never crossed Jackie's mind, but the Lord changed that. In this episode, the Perrys highlight a few things that compete for our attention and take away from adequate time in God’s Word. Jackie's new devotional, Upon Waking, was created to help us all cultivate a daily habit of seeking the Lord before anything else.
 

Grab your copy of Upon Waking here.

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Preston Sprinkle doesn’t shy away from the tension of wrestling with what the Bible says about marriage and sexuality. As his theological curiosity has led him to search the scriptures and dialogue with people in the LGBTQ community, Preston is also committed to embodying the grace and kindness of Jesus. He joins the Perrys on today’s episode to discuss some of his methods in approaching the topic of same-sex marriage. It all starts with asking the fundamental question, “What is marriage?”

Follow Preston Sprinkle at PrestonSprinkle.com and check out his new book, Does the Bible Support Same-Sex Marriage?

His other books include Embodied: Transgender Identities, the Church, and What the Bible Has to Say and  People to Be Loved: Why Homosexuality Is Not Just an Issue.

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Why is it important we address sin when presenting the gospel? Because people need to know what stands in the way of their relationship with God… but how we communicate really matters. In this episode, Jackie and Preston take a look at 2 Timothy 2, which discusses character traits necessary when addressing sin. We can’t do it in our flesh. It requires dependence on the Holy Spirit. If you missed Part 1 of this gospel conversation, check it out here.

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In our communication of the gospel message, many of us overemphasize the fall, leading the conversation by starting with our sin. We inherited sin, but we were not created to be sinful. It is wiser for us to begin the gospel conversation by communicating the nature of God – “God is good.” Join Jackie and Preston for Part 1 of a conversation on engaging those around us with the gospel, and being anchored in love as we do so.

Pre-order Jackie’s book, Upon Waking: UponWakingBook.com

What Is the Gospel? (Crucial Questions) by R.C. Sproul

Gospel Fluency: Speaking the Truths of Jesus into the Everyday Stuff of Life by Jeff Vanderstelt

Romans 1 - 7 for You: For Reading, for Feeding, for Leading (God's Word for You) by Timothy Keller

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If marriage feels difficult, it’s not because you and your spouse are incompatible. It’s because you’re married. On today’s episode, Jackie and Preston are joined by mentors and friends CD and Melody Fabien for a conversation about fighting for intimacy. They talk about recognizing dysfunctional rhythms, finding opportunities to connect, not building cases against your spouse, healthy confrontation, and utilizing the greatest tool God has given us to find oneness in marriage: communication.

Follow CD and Melody at CDandMelody.com and YouTube.com/@hangingwiththefabiens

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Boldness isn’t making public stances on things all the time, and it’s not just saying everything that pops into your head. In this episode, Jackie and Preston talk about what it truly means to cultivate holistic boldness as a Christ follower today. It’s about obedience to God, death to self, and empowerment by the Holy Spirit. And you don’t have to feel bold to be bold. Let’s talk about it.

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Dr. Sarita Lyons has written a book to encourage Black women specifically – based on their unique lived experience – and she sits down with the Perrys to talk about it. She also shares about her faith journey of spiritual confusion. When she went to college, she started to embrace African spiritualism with the Christian faith of her childhood but quickly learned that you can’t mix Jesus with false gods.

Church Girl: A Gospel Vision to Encourage and Challenge Black Christian Women, is available for pre-order now, or grab it wherever you buy books on August 20, 2024.

Follow Dr. Sarita Lyons:

https://www.instagram.com/drsaritalyons/

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From being long distance to living in the same city and then taking a pivotal trip together to the Caribbean, the Perrys’ dating relationship had a bit of a rocky start. Jackie ended things with Preston not once but twice, she says out of fear of Preston’s loving pursuit of her. It didn’t help that Preston didn’t know how to lead her well. There’s a lot they would have done differently, but in the end, their story is a reflection of Jesus’ Gospel pursuit of each of us.

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A conversation with Preston about his book-writing experience turns into a much bigger dialogue about the creative process. Jackie asks Preston about the obstacles he’s run into moving from poet to author, and Preston explains why he really doesn’t believe in writer’s block. The Perrys talk about battling perfectionism, receiving critiques, and inviting other people into the writing journey.

Check out Gay Girl, Good God.

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Many of us got comfortable not going to church through the pandemic and we’re slowly finding our way back. The Bible tells us we need other Christians and we’re missing something if we don’t gather together to hear God’s Word. But our relationship to church can still be complicated. Jackie and Preston’s conversation today covers topics like worship style preferences, doctrinally sound preaching and discipleship, the pressure that local pastors face because of social media, and the topic of church hurt.  

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A few years back, the Perrys started a series on the podcast called “Teach the Text,” and that’s the format of today’s new episode. Jackie teaches through Genesis 16 – the story of Hagar, Abram, and Sarai – reflecting on the unique questions that only a woman might think to ask of this text. Jackie and Preston discuss impatience, idolatry, and misplaced hope, at the end pointing us to the God who sees us in our suffering.

Check out other “Teach the Text” episodes: 

• Jude
• John 9

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Jackie and Preston revisit a conversation had during the very first season of the podcast five years ago – how to argue well. Confrontation is a necessary function of a healthy relationship and it can create more intimacy. But how do we honor God and one another as we move through conflict? The Perrys have some thoughts from what they’ve learned over the years.

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Why does it matter that we fully understand the deity of Jesus? Because if we don’t, we run the risk of worshiping the wrong God. Preston and Jackie walk through the apologetics of this important element of the Christian faith, examining scripture people often point to when questioning if Jesus is God. 

Check out the Greek/English Interlinear New Testament here.

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Any time we attempt to be faithful to the gospel and build anything of eternal value, there will be opposition. Listen in as Preston and Jackie share their experience with temptation, fear, and victory in gospel ministry.

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We're kicking off Season Six with our brother, Ezekiel Azonwu. Listen in as Ezekiel and Preston give us a sneak peek of what to expect on their upcoming We Need To Talk Tour. Culture discourages men from being in community, and many men are confused about their call and spiritual giftedness. But guys are crying out for discipleship and voices in close proximity to them that will build them up. Let’s talk about it.

Connect with Ezekiel on Instagram at @wordsbyezekiel, and get your tickets for the tour at weneed2talktour.com.

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Our Patreon community had questions. We’ve got answers. In this season 5 finale, you get to listen in as we unpack them one by one. 

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This one's about Kanye and how Christians can counter culture to help wake up Mr. West.

Previous Episode Reference: The Inhumanity of Celebrity (Season 5: Episode 3)

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We are all uniquely gifted and charged to use our gifts for the glory of God, both inside and outside the home. How can we use our gifts effectively while also helping our partner to flourish? What does it look like for husbands and wives to support each other without ego or insecurity getting in the way? The Perrys discuss how it takes both humility and love for spouses to support each other well. 

Also in this episode, the Perrys talk about Preston’s DISCIPLE hat. It sells out quickly, but keep an eye out here.

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Ever been intimidated by or skeptical about homeownership and/or real estate investing? Our friend Erika B. is the woman you need to know. We invited her to join us for a discussion about building generational wealth absent of greed, wisdom for first time homebuyers, and the two most common things people lack that block them from unpacking the fullness of homeownership and real estate investing.

Learn more about Erika by following her on Instagram at www.instagram.com/erikabrowninvestor/

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Politics. It’s how people become dehumanized in the sight of the “free” and the hearts of the “brave.” In this episode, we chat with our friend, Justin Giboney of The And Campaign, about identity idolatry in politics, the Gospel-focused roles Christians should play in politics, and three components necessary to truly love our neighbors, regardless of their political affiliation. 

For more information on The And Campaign, visit https://andcampaign.org/

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Friends. How many of us have them? Better question: how many of us have the kind of friendships that can weather the storms of life and survive? Jackie shares the one thing that trumps everything in her deep, intimate friendships and Preston shares wisdom on cultivating healthy friendships after ending toxic ones.

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Whether you believe in it or not, every believer engages in spiritual warfare. Temptation is the enemy’s way of joining forces with sin in an attempt to destroy us. In this episode, we discuss our personal experiences with temptation post-salvation, encounters with God that changed our perspectives on spiritual warfare, and the role of faith in the battle against temptation. 

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Ask any healthy couple and they’ll tell you that communication is key for a strong relationship. The same goes for your relationship with God, which is why prayer is essential. In this episode, we’re chatting about the enemy of prayer, why prayer feels inconvenient, and how we can suck less at it.

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At the root of anxiety is one tiny word that has the power to suck joy and contentment out of saints and aints alike—fear. Specifically, fear of what we cannot control. We examine why Adam and Eve lacked anxiety in the Garden and what we can gain from them to lead less anxious lives. 

Book Reference: The Cry of the Soul by Dan Allender and Tremper Longman

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8 balls, tube socks, and rocks—OH MY! Jackie recounts stressful (and somewhat traumatic) moments from her life before Christ that bring the Perrys to the point of uncontrollable (happy) tears.

Book Reference: Gay Girl, Good God by Jackie Hill Perry

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The phenomenon of celebrity is quite…strange. Jackie talks about the pressure of maintaining a facade when notoriety places her in uncomfortable situations, and Preston advocates for a “hierarchy of opinions” to keep us all from becoming puppets. We also explore how celebrity culture affects the local church and its leaders.

Previous Episode Reference: Fame: Christian Celebrity Culture (Season 3: Episode 5)

Book Reference: Illusions of Immortality: A Psychology of Fame and Celebrity by David Giles 

Book Reference: The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis

Book Reference: When Narcissism Comes to Church by Chuck DeGroat

Podcast Reference: The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill by Christianity Today

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Does running his bath water, baking him cookies, and rubbing his back equate to submission? The short answer? Nah. In this episode, we’re talking about how the purity of submission is displayed during the inconveniences of marriage and how true submission is a test of a wife’s trust—in God and in her husband. 

Previous Episode Reference: When Your Man is Intimidated by Your Gifts (Season 2: Episode 1)

Book Reference: Holier Than Thou by Jackie Hill Perry

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With the podcast tour this month, there will be a short break in recording new content, so let’s revisit some of the Perrys’ most popular episodes.

What do you think about sex? It has serious physical, social, emotional, and spiritual implications. It’s the closest physical bond two human beings can have. It can bring forth both life and destruction. We’ve seen sex misused and perverted, but there’s beauty to be explored, and the Perrys discuss that idea in this episode.

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Let’s be clear— headship and dominance are not the same thing. Christ-like headship requires two things that may be difficult for some husbands: sacrifice and vulnerability. We chat about what real headship is, what it isn’t, and why it can be scary.

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For the final episode of the season, we're answering questions from our Patreon Saints. They wanted to know if Jackie disciples people she doesn't know, our thoughts on witchcraft, and more.

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Guns aren't foreign to the American way of life and neither is the misuse, murder, and destructive violence that's caused by them. Jackie isn't the biggest fan of guns for that reason. Preston owns them and believes them to be a useful tool in protecting your family. Listen in as Jackie picks Preston's brain about guns and how to make sense of a complex subject. 

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We clearly knew something about sex before getting married but sadly, most of our perspectives were toxic. Worldliness and unhealthy Christian frameworks about sexuality shaped our thinking as it probably has for many of us. So let's talk about it. 

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If you heard someone use the word “Black biblical interpretation,” would you have any idea what they meant by it? We didn’t until we had a chat with Esau about it and we soon realized it’s a practice the entire church would greatly benefit from.  

To purchase a copy of Reading While Black: https://amzn.to/3NCChT3 

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