On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome back Rosanne Austin @rosanneaustinfertility. Rosanne has been on my podcast before, so if you want to hear her backstory, you can check out our first conversation on Episode 216. In our conversation, Rosanne shared her Fearlessly Fertile Live World Tour and her upcoming book, The Feminine Fertility Cure. She shares her motivation for going on the tour and the impact it has had on women. Rosanne explains the importance of reconnecting with femininity for fertility and discusses the historical context of the masculinization of women.Her book aims to educate women about the masculine and feminine energies and how they relate to fertility. The conversation explores the paradigm of progress and success that has been ingrained in society, emphasizing the importance of education, financial independence, and career achievements. It discusses how this paradigm has influenced women's choices and perceptions of femininity. The conversation also highlights the need for women to reconnect with their feminine nature and desires, and how this can positively impact fertility. It addresses the societal pressure on women to conform to a masculine ideal and the negative impact it has had on women's happiness and fertility rates. Rosanne shares practical steps for women to tap into their feminine power and improve their fertility.     Takeaways

• The Fearlessly Fertile Live World Tour allowed Rosanne Austin to connect with women in person and witness the impact of her work.
• The book, The Feminine Fertility Cure, explores the historical context of the masculinization of women and educates women about the importance of reclaiming their feminine nature for fertility.
• Reconnecting with femininity is crucial for fertility.
• Feminism should be about equal rights for men and women, including the right for women to choose to stay feminine. The paradigm of progress and success has influenced women's choices and perceptions of femininity.
• Reconnecting with feminine nature and desires can positively impact fertility.
• Societal pressure to conform to a masculine ideal has negatively affected women's happiness and fertility rates.

    Guest Bio:    Rosanne Austin, JD, PCC, received her coaching training from the honored Coaches Training Institute in San Rafael, California. She is certified by and a member of the International Coach Federation, which is the leader in professional training, standards, and ethics for coaching professionals. Rosanne is also a proud member of California State Bar. She received her Juris Doctorate from University of the Pacific, McGeorge School of Law, where she was on the Dean’s List and received the Witkin Award in Expert and Scientific Evidence. She also holds a Bachelor of Arts in History from San Francisco State University, graduating Summa Cum Laude.   Rosanne’s professional background has given her the honor and opportunity to directly impact thousands of people’s lives, at a time when they were vulnerable, fearful, heartbroken, and at a crossroads.   Rosanne is the author of 3 bestselling books and her work has been featured on leading podcasts such as The Doctor Mom Podcast, Infertility in the City, The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Infertile AF, Finding Fertility, The Hormone Puzzle Podcast, The Egg Whisperer Show. She has also had leading fertility experts such as Dr. Zaher Merhi, Dr. Aimee Eyvazzadeh, Dr. Robert Kiltz, and Dr. Christiane Northrup on her top 1% Fearlessly Fertile Podcast.   When she is not writing, mentoring, speaking, teaching, leading her transformational events and programs, or loving on her husband and son, Rosanne gives back by serving organizations committed to providing resources to survivors of Human Trafficking and for the protection of abused/abandoned dogs and cats.   https://www.frommaybetobaby.com https://www.instagram.com/rosanneaustinfertility/       For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com   Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility   The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/   Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/     Transcript:     Michelle (00:00) Welcome back to the podcast, Rosanne.   Rosanne Austin (00:03) Thanks for having me, Michelle! Such a good place to be!   Michelle (00:07) Yes, so excited to have you back. know I love you if I have you this many times back to the podcast. So I want to talk about your upcoming book that is coming out, The Feminine Fertility Cure. But I also want to talk about maybe before that, your tour that you just   Rosanne Austin (00:20) Yes.   Michelle (00:29) had but are continuing soon.   Rosanne Austin (00:31) Yes. Yeah. Well, so this so we started this year in March. We started the Fearlessly Fertile Live World Tour, which is kind of hilarious because I I was thinking to myself it was last October when this idea came to mind. So October 2023. And then we start all of the stuff that goes into it by January 2024. So I'm a pretty quick mover.   like, want to make a decision. let's just go on a world tour. And it was funny because the thought behind all this leading up to the book and everything else that I'm doing right now was a desire to really connect, to connect with the women who love the work that I do or who are curious or maybe just starting their fertility journey. But I was pretty sick of sitting behind my computer.   Michelle (01:00) You are, man.   Rosanne Austin (01:28) and being just disconnected, right? Like you and I both know because we're cool and we do this work is that we know we're energetically we're connected, but I think there's something dramatically different and rich and really colorful and just super interesting about connecting with people in person.   Michelle (01:28) Hmm.   Rosanne Austin (01:51) And so I just said, fuck it, let's go do this. And I'm like, I don't know how to do it world tour, but I do know how to travel. So the team and I just sat down together and kind of mapped out the cities where we thought we could have the most impact. And we just started traveling. So it's not like I had any experience prior to actually doing it, but I think doing it is the best possible teacher. So we started on the West coast of the United States. We did San Francisco, LA.   San Diego, and then we went on to the East Coast where we did DC, New York, New York City, and then we went up to Buffalo, because interestingly enough, I have a sizable audience in Buffalo, New York, and then we went to Toronto and Montreal. And all of those locations were just fantastic, just getting to hug my ladies, hold their babies, and really see the   fruit of what I put out in the world, but more importantly, how women take that message, apply it to their own lives, and are creating these insane results. So it was from the East Coast. We came home to Texas for a couple weeks and then got back out on the road and we started in Europe in May. So we did, my gosh, it feels like.   It was just a few weeks ago, it feels like, you know, we got back on June 3rd, but we were in Florence, Paris, London, Manchester, Birmingham, and we're in Edinburgh. And then it, yeah, it was like, boom, boom, boom, boom. tell ya. But it was great, you know, when we were filming the whole thing, our intention is to complete a documentary.   Michelle (03:33) That's awesome.   Rosanne Austin (03:43) on the work that I do and the impact and all of that good stuff to really inspire women to look beyond their current circumstances and stay focused on their vision for their lives because I met so many women along the way, some women that I had never met, some women who I just read the book or some women who were just listening to the podcast that were creating such crazy results.   And it's hard to wrap your head around. So that was also like, that was part of the intention was to get back into the trenches, but it was also to see and assess for myself what the impact could be so that I could get better at what I do. So I can really see, you know, how can I take this to the next level? How can I serve at a higher level or what the vision might be? So it's been wild. It's been really crazy. And actually,   Michelle (04:17) and then.   Rosanne Austin (04:38) At the time of this recording in a couple of weeks, I'll be in Chicago. And then we have a few dates in here in Texas. And then January, we're looking at New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, or Dubai. So it's a legit world tour. Yeah.   Michelle (04:52) love that. my god, that is just so freaking, And I love your dedication. I know you talk about like hundreds of thousands of women that you're gonna like help them conceive. I don't know if it already happened. I don't like at this point. But I know that you really have such a passion about spreading this message and empowering so many women, so many couples and   How did you decide on the locations, first of all? Did you do it based on like a survey of some people like knowing where they live or the audience?   Rosanne Austin (05:27) Well, you know, it was kind of, it was sort of both where I'm like, I'm looking at, okay, what are the major metropolitan areas? And so it wasn't like, it was strategic from that point, but it also had to be cities I was interested in going to. Like if I'm not interested, I don't go. And if I'm not interested, my energy's low, I can't, you know, because the energy in the room.   Michelle (05:40) Yeah.   I can't imagine your energy being low because I feel like you're so aligned you would never do anything that wouldn't be.   Rosanne Austin (05:52) Yeah, well, I mean, but that's kind of part of it is that, you know, but the energy like that that I was getting from being in all of these different places. And it was because I consciously chose them and was excited about them. And the women showed up like it was it was really cool. It was really, really cool to see and to watch that growth and and really   Michelle (06:09) Amazing.   Rosanne Austin (06:22) You know, because it's kind of funny because I still see myself as you know that former prosecutor with this just this idea. But it you know, so many years later, it's not just an idea. It's an actual movement. It's a phenomenon. So it was exciting and it was such a gift. It was very humbling. I would say is another thing that came up. It was very humbling to see how when women make a decision and how when women are really committed to the dream.   Michelle (06:36) Mm -hmm.   Rosanne Austin (06:51) that they can make anything happen. I mean, I sat there with women who had been told so many different times and in so many different ways that having a baby was impossible. I mean, women who had stillbirths, women who had devastating losses, second trimester losses that were in the room holding babies. I mean, it was breathtaking. And I don't think I have fully processed it, like, because I'm always on the go. I'm always like,   Michelle (07:07) Okay.   Wow.   Rosanne Austin (07:21) kind of moving through to the next project. But it was, you know, when I have quiet moments, which I do have, but when I sit and really think of the enormity of it, it's extremely humbling and it's a real testament to the human spirit. I mean, that's, I mean, the reason why I do this work is, you know, one, I find it exciting and I love learning. I'm a perpetual student. I love keeping my edge sharp.   Michelle (07:38) I love that.   Rosanne Austin (07:48) But it's also like, I really love watching these women wake up to their own power, because that's at the essence of what I do.   Michelle (07:56) Oof.   I love that. I love that. And I think that that's why I love you so much. I truly do because I feel I could really relate to that because it's just it's freaking amazing. There's nothing like it because people do have power. I think that seeing people not know that they have that is painful. And you want to make sure that everybody that you really come into contact realizes just how powerful they are.   So I'm sure based on what you're telling me that you have some incredible stories. So if anything jumps out, I would love to hear about it.   Rosanne Austin (08:37) Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, but we share that commonality in the work that we do is that it is the essence of what we're doing is trying to well, and I only try to wake up people that want to be awake. So much like you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Much like you is that when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And that's what we're there to do based on our expertise, our training, our background, our commitment.   Michelle (08:51) Mm -hmm. You have to. You can't. You can't force it.   Rosanne Austin (09:07) we come in and we say, hey, there is another way. And let me show you this modality. And you know, because that's, people have to understand that fertility is like a mosaic. They are all these different pieces. And no matter how you arrange those pieces, you are always the foundation. You are always the glue that keeps everything together. So when you are not aligned or when you have a belief system that keeps you stuck repeating old patterns, then,   It doesn't matter. It's funny, we were talking about this earlier, but you can't out supplement, you can't out yoga, you cannot out treat a belief that says you can't have what you want or you're not worthy of what you want. Or that you have no power, essentially. I mean, because it's all lies. I mean, think about what we were talking about before about the energy in our bodies, the meridians, all these things. When we were talking about your book, like,   Michelle (09:56) Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (10:05) It is the essence of saying you have the power. So anything that separates you from that reality is no good. So this work is really about coming back to understanding that you are the foundation. Once you have that foundation and then you add the beauty of what you do or the beauty of what other people do and medicine and all these other things, you can get to a place where...   Michelle (10:09) Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (10:31) you realize that you're making these things that you want, you're making them your reality. Baby, home, car, profession, all of these things that come together to create a really full life. So it's, yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool shit.   Michelle (10:46) I just had a vision in my head as you were telling me that of like a computer. You can have like state of the art parts and everything put together, but if the program is not installed, that is going to help you get from A to Z.   Rosanne Austin (11:01) Yeah, no, that's a beautiful metaphor. That's like the perfect metaphor. I'm gonna borrow that. I'm gonna borrow it. I'm gonna say thank you, Michelle Orovitz for this amazing visual here because it fucking makes sense. Yeah.   Michelle (11:06) Take it, take it, it's a gift. Yes. Yeah.   And physical parts itself is doing all the things, out supplementing and all of that for sure. And so let's talk, I'm very excited to talk about this, the feminine fertility cure. tell us everything.   Rosanne Austin (11:29) Duh.   okay. So this this book is many, many years in the making. So and it actually Yes, yes, yes. Well, and it was funny because I actually can thank Chinese medicine for this because when I was on my own journey, I had no idea I was stuck in my masculine or my yang as you would say it. And   Michelle (11:38) Those are always the best ones.   Rosanne Austin (12:00) I thought I was kind of a weirdo. I just thought, you know what, I got this problem. Like I'm not able to receive, on the exterior, I'm, you know, yeah, I'm feminine. I wear makeup, I got cute clothes, I get my nails done and all that. I had all the physical outward trappings of femininity, but my energy was decidedly masculine. Now I was starting to ask questions about why that was.   At first I thought, well, it's just my profession. As a prosecutor, it's decidedly masculine profession. You have to armor up. You're going into a courtroom, possibly with a homicidal maniac or a serial rapist. You gotta have your armor up. But what I found out is that the armor was never coming off. And as I started, when I got on my journey and then I started teaching other women what I had learned and then I left my work as a prosecutor,   and really went full throttle into what I do, I started seeing a pattern that a lot of other women I was serving also had this problem with a disconnection to their femininity. And I observed it for a while and I'm like, okay, let me just take note of this. Let me just take note. And...   Michelle (13:12) Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (13:19) I was like, well, there's something to this, you know, this idea of conceiving is all about receiving. And if we're stuck in our masculine and disconnected from our feminine, how the hell are we ever gonna receive from our partner and conceive? So I really started to take note. And because I serve such lovably type A recovering control, freaky professional women, you know, at the top of their game who are primarily in more   Michelle (13:32) Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (13:49) masculine professions, it, so many of us get stuck and I'm like, well, how the fuck do we get unstuck? And then I started to work through that. I looked at what I was doing. How was I reconnecting with my feminine? And I'm like, okay, so let me take what I learned, start teaching it. Let me start studying more. Let me explore more of this feminine. So when I started incorporating this kind of work into what I was doing, I saw the results skyrocket.   Michelle (13:56) Mm -hmm.   Mmm.   Rosanne Austin (14:18) within women to help them reconnect to the feminine. But what was more interesting and the questions that I started answering with this book, The Feminine Fertility Cure, was where the hell did this start? Because you don't just have a couple generations of women completely disconnected to their feminine. Where did this start? So I started doing research, and this is where it gets super interesting. I'm like,   Michelle (14:40) Hmm.   Rosanne Austin (14:46) If you look, and I only speak about the United States because that's where I live, that's what I know, that's a culture I was raised in. But if you look at what has happened to women ever since the women's movement, it's actually quite shocking. And through the research and watching it myself and being caught up in it myself, we really got this message that   since the women's movement in the 1960s, I use in my book, the Kennedy administration as kind of this line of demarcation that post the Kennedy administration in the United States, there was a concerted effort to masculinize women, to take us away from our feminine nature. And we were sold, well, I don't really call it sold, I call it a fucking scam. In my book, we were scammed out of our femininity because what we were told is that, yeah, get out in the workplace, you know,   get yourself out of the shackles of domesticity and you're gonna be free. But what was really happening was a systematic masculinization. So we were taken away from our feminine nature and told that you have to work hard, you have to dress like a man, you have to pack up your emotions, you have to conform, separate yourself from your spirituality.   Michelle (15:48) Okay.   Rosanne Austin (16:08) and femininity is weak, we started to see all of these things that if you wanted to be a successful woman who represents progress, be more like a man. And the data's undeniable. It's undeniable. Like, because you think about it, and of course, I went into a profession that, as like I said before, as a prosecutor is very masculine. There's nothing feminine about anything that you're doing there.   And when you spend long enough in that masculine mode, you get disconnected from the feminine. You don't even know what it is. Like, you'd be surprised, Michelle, how many physicians, surgeons, lawyers, engineers that I work with, like when I say the feminine, there's like this giant question mark over their head, like what? You know, but when you look at some of the propaganda that we were fed as   Michelle (16:45) Hmm.   Rosanne Austin (17:05) you know, anyone born post Kennedy administration. The idea was, is that in order for you to be free and to have progress, you got to go into life in a certain way and it's decidedly masculine. So what this book is about is educating women about basically how that happened, educating about what the masculine is, what the feminine is, how it directly connects to fertility because   Michelle (17:34) Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (17:34) I don't care what anyone says. Having a baby is the most fucking feminine thing you will ever do. And this is why trying to do it from young in your terms or like a man in mine, I watch women try to get pregnant like a man all the time and men don't get pregnant, okay? We as women do. And when you're trying to do a decidedly feminine thing like a man, you find yourself with problems. And another thing about   Michelle (17:47) Mm -hmm.   Rosanne Austin (18:04) The masculine, which, and I've got nothing on the masculine. I've got no complaint because the masculine and the feminine work synergistically. You and I know this. One is not better than the other. That's not what I'm saying here. But what this work is about and what I get into in this book is really encouraging women to reclaim. It is all about reclamation. Reclaim your feminine nature because   Michelle (18:26) Yeah.   Right.   Rosanne Austin (18:31) It's from the feminine that you are going to heal what ails you when it comes to your fertility. Because when you think about the masculine, it's go, go, go, do, do, do, you are not enough, you just work harder, do more, be more perfect and this will happen. The feminine, I mean think about what the feminine stands for. It's the spiritual, it's the nurturing, it's the fertility.   Michelle (18:58) creative.   Rosanne Austin (19:00) Yeah, it's the creative, it's the surrendered, it's the open, it's the receptive, all of those things. I mean, those are some important things when you're trying to conceive. But when we're stuck in man mode, we are completely cut off from that. And then we keep beating our head up against the wall trying to figure out why I have so much inflammation. Why do I have all this stuck energy? Why do I feel like nothing's moving? It's because you're stuck in man mode.   and I want to say this because some, you know, this, I want to be super clear, like this book is not political at all. Some will probably read this book and accuse me of being anti -feminist, but I come from the perspective, I look at feminism as in a very legalistic way, that men and women have equal rights. That's it. That's it. Any, for me, anything beyond that?   starts to get far afield, people abuse it, all this other stuff. So I come from the perspective that, you know, because around that time people will say, well, you don't think that was a good time because this is when, you know, feminism rose up. Well, yeah, and so did a lot of other things. Okay. So I'm looking at this strictly from when we look at feminism and believing that men and women have equal rights under the law. And we say that a woman   deserves to have a right to choose in just about everything in her life and that also includes staying feminine, right? Because the messaging that we got was the only way to be successful is to act more like a man. Think about this, Michelle. So I'm 50 and I do not recall ever hearing messaging that staying home and having babies and being in a relationship was a legitimate option.   Michelle (20:35) Is it?   Rosanne Austin (20:51) The only thing I ever heard was leave the house, never depend on a man, get an education, make a bunch of money and be untouchable, right? That was the paradigm of progress.   Michelle (20:56) Mm -hmm.   You see it everywhere. You see it on TV shows, on movies, like everywhere, everywhere.   Rosanne Austin (21:05) Yeah, that was the paradigm of progress and success. And think about it, I remember, and this is like, this just shows how deep the programming is. I remember a girl in my high school class who wanted to get married and have babies. And I remember thinking, poor thing, that's a life thrown away.   Like how anti -woman is that shit? I mean, that's how deep the programming was. And I thought I was the quote unquote feminist back then. Like not respecting that woman's desire and her otherwise legitimate choice to live her life with traditional feminine pursuits, right? And the whole point of this is not to say it's bad to have a profession or it's bad to stay at home. It's none of that.   It's a masculine paradigm that tries to force us into choosing. Rather than saying, okay, we as creative, resourceful, and whole women get to move through those things. You know, like you might do time as a prosecutor, you might do time as a physician, and then decide that your soul is saying, I really want to go home, I want to get pregnant, I want to have babies and chickens and a garden. Like that's legit.   Michelle (22:01) Right, yeah, good point.   Rosanne Austin (22:27) But yet that, you know, so much of the messaging up to this point has been, that is the lesser choice. Like the feminine is the lesser choice or the feminine is the weak. And so everything that I'm talking about in this book is saying, look sister, your fertility and your issues with fertility right now are a wake -up call. It's a wake -up call to come home to the fucking feminine because...   Your femininity, your feminine is your fertility superpower.   Michelle (22:58) love that. my God. So many things come to mind. And I'm thinking about the Yin and the Yang. Like imagine the Yin and the Yang start arguing with each other or like fighting like each other's nature. Well, you should be like this. You should know like everything in nature has the Yin and the Yang. They need to be there. They need to be there. Otherwise, this is what my professor told me when we first learned about it. Like when Yin and Yang separate, there is death because we need the Yin and Yang for vitality.   Rosanne Austin (23:23) Mmm!   that's so good.   Michelle (23:26) So we need that and it's like really to kind of bring it to that and I am going to talk science right now because in so there's been a couple of studies that I saw about having sex outside of the fertile window. When women are more sexually active, which they naturally would be if they felt connected with their partner. It's just like a natural tendency. But what happens physiologically?   is when they are more sexually active, unprotected, even outside of the fertile window into the luteal phase, you know what happens? A woman's immune system starts to change from what it was before. And what happens is the immune system starts to bring its arms down a little bit more. It starts to become more receptive, more calm. It lowers itself. It stops being in such a fight mode, ready to attack.   And design. When it does that, when it knows, okay, I'm in receptive mode here, we're having more sex, I'm getting familiar with the sperm, I allow it in so that this isn't an invader. I'm receiving, inviting, allowing. So this is literally like what you're telling me here.   immune systems don't do that because they don't receive they they're putting out it's a different energy it's a different flow it's a different direction.   Rosanne Austin (24:48) Mmmmm   Yeah. that's so beautiful. I love that you shared that because, you know, it's a really warped thing that we have gotten into as women. And when you think about it, it really is insidious.   Like why, I mean, we even see this today because we were talking about, like if we look at the women's movement from the 1960s, like the intention was good, of course. We want women to have equal rights under the law as men. That's obvious, that's basic, it's a human right. But when you look at how that got warped and then it's like, okay, well, if you really wanna be free, get out of the house, do all this stuff, start acting like a man, you know, we even see images in media.   Michelle (25:25) Mm -hmm.   Rosanne Austin (25:41) and film and all this other stuff of women being, you know, having sex like men, which is wildly unnatural. Like that's not our natural state as women to be like predators in that sense, you know? Yeah.   Michelle (25:56) we have more oxytocin and it actually is meant to connect us more to one person.   Rosanne Austin (26:03) Right, right, right. And then, you know, we see this ripple effect that it's had and we look at since about 1970, and women will have to take a look at the book to get the dates right. I have so many dates and numbers, you know, stuck in my head from having done the research, but it was around 1970 that we started to track women's happiness on a consistent basis. So we have data going back to   Michelle (26:19) Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (26:32) approximately from 1970 to about 2006, that tracks with not only did the birth rate go down, because we have things like, you know, no fault divorce, we have the advent of birth control, abortion being legal, all of these things, these new cultural things that happen, that as women left the home, pursued education, made more money, had fewer children,   there's actually an inverse relationship. So the more educated a woman became and pursued those more masculine results, the less happy she became. And I believe the number is 35%. happiness has dropped by 35%, the more educated that we became and the more separated from the home. Now what's funny is this research that came out of the Wharton School of Business showing that like is the   Michelle (27:16) wow.   Rosanne Austin (27:31) antithesis of what we were sold about the women's movement, that we would be happier when the data shows quite opposite. And then you look at the issues that we have today with dismal and terrifying birth rates. We went from one in eight couples struggling with fertility to one in five.   Michelle (27:50) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. That's crazy. Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (27:54) I think the average woman today, I think the number was hovering about 1 .7 children per woman. That's not even sustainable population growth at this point. So there are so many things that, and there's so many things that go into it. I'm not just saying that it's because we all become masculine. There's also plastics in our food. There's also glyphosate and rampant, overuse of medications and all kinds of   Michelle (28:06) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.   Rosanne Austin (28:23) you know, fluoride in the water. I'm gonna put my tin foil hat on right now, people can see it. But it's actually not, yeah, I mean, there's just so much stuff that has changed, but you can't deny that our attitudes have changed. And you know, women are having babies later. And I think that's a beautiful thing, but it also is indicative of a systemic cultural shift to say that, well, you don't have babies until...   Michelle (28:29) The radiation, everything.   Rosanne Austin (28:50) You've made this much money, you've had this much education, you've done X, Y, Z, you've published this number of papers. It's, in a sense, like, I really feel like women have been conditioned away from having the highest degree of choice. And it's heartbreaking. And then when women finally are in their 40s and they're trying to have babies, they go into the fertility world hearing that the window is closed.   Michelle (29:18) Mm -hmm. Right. Right.   Rosanne Austin (29:18) and too bad for you. So it's like, it's like you can, you find yourself getting to this place where you're saying, well, is this all there is? Because having babies is not just a fleeting desire, it's a longing. And if it was made, let's just say like it's a passe idea to be at home, have babies and pursue a happy home life.   If that was just passe and everyone's beyond it, tell me why the fertility industry is a multi -billion dollar industry. People still want it. This is why you have women getting to 45, meeting the right partner, and then longing to have a baby because it's innate in us. It's innate. It's fascinating. It's super, yeah.   Michelle (29:55) Yeah.   Yeah.   Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah.   It is fascinating. And the fact that you're really looking at the research and you actually have numbers and percentages, that is what is so cool about this. And I think also, you know, all the messages that we get, you know, you're too old, but did you know, do you know what the highest, the Guinness Book of World Records, highest naturally conceived and birthed child, highest age?   Rosanne Austin (30:35) No, what maybe in the 60s?   Michelle (30:37) You're going to love this and you could use this. Use this all you want. And I know you will because it's so freaking good. 58. 58. And it's a woman from the UK, Dawn Brooks, I believe was her name, and from the UK of all places where there's a lot of deficiency in vitamin D. But yeah, yeah, she did. And then I think about, actually, I remember Tori Quisling had mentioned   Rosanne Austin (30:46) I love it.   Michelle (31:02) She didn't mention the name, but she had mentioned how one person breaks the record and then other people hear about that and then all of a sudden they're breaking the record. And that really goes to the Roger Bannister effect where they said, there's no way you could break that four minute mile and then one person breaks it and then four others do within a couple of weeks from that.   Rosanne Austin (31:15) Mmm.   But yeah, but that's also like a scriptural reality too. I mean, you look at ancient books, you hear about women being fertile at times, whether people choose to interpret that as a metaphor or not is their business. But you hear about women being able to do miraculous things very late, allegedly in life. And so this is why I wanted to write the book because I find that when women tap back into their femininity,   Michelle (31:28) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm. Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (31:53) They tap back into the love of self. They tap back into self -care. They tap back into their truest desires. They speak them, they rest. Instead of doing what they should do, they do what they desire to do. It drops the level of stress and puts them in a more receptive yin mode. And then we see women, I mean, I've seen this in my own practice. You see women who were given single digit odds.   Michelle (32:01) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Love that.   Rosanne Austin (32:22) going and getting pregnant with ease when they go, they tap back into their nature. You know, it's just, it's fascinating. So like I had a woman that was in my program who was 52. And what was interesting about her was that she had this longing. She had this longing. She had, you know, she was a successful business owner. She was like, I just don't feel like my life is complete.   Michelle (32:27) Thank you.   Rosanne Austin (32:50) I am intended to be a mother. I'm intended to be a mother now. And she pursued this child. And now her son's like probably a year and a half old now. Like it's just fascinating. And what it required for her to get there was tapping back into that feminine desire. So my objective in this book is to educate women about what the feminine is, show them how it has been.   programmed out of us and ultimately what to do to reclaim it. Because we see that once you improve your self care, the stress level goes down, the data shows consistently that when cortisol levels are high, it takes longer for women to get pregnant and it negatively impacts results in controlled environments like IVF. Like they've seen this. They've even tested hair samples.   women with the highest concentrations of cortisol have the biggest struggles. And it's just wild. And so when you think about this from a mindset perspective, and you think about the very masculine messages women have gotten about what success means, it's like when you change your mind about what success looks like, and you start looking at it from a feminine perspective, then you can start changing the game.   and you can heal yourself, you can heal your fertility, and you'll do that through a more open mind, more receptive, look at different opportunities and different things that come up. So it just gives us the ability to tap into our innate feminine nature so we can do the innately feminine fucking thing that we're trying to do. So yeah, so that's the essence of what the book is about. And...   Michelle (34:36) Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (34:42) Women can find the book anywhere the books are sold and it'll be out August 2nd.   Michelle (34:50) I love that. And so question, as far as momentum goes, because I know that when we're in a path, we're on a path and we just keep going, going, going and say we're like on a masculine path or we've been conditioned, I find that it's just like you start to take a momentum and it's very hard to switch gears and shift back, even if it is our nature. So just if anybody's listening, what are some of your thoughts or anything you want to share about like really   getting to that place of switching gears.   Rosanne Austin (35:22) Okay, one of the greatest ways to switch gears is to look at your fucking results. If you do not like your results, you have to have the humility and the open heartedness to say, what I am doing is not working. And to say that from a loving perspective. Like I don't look at things not working or mistakes or things that have happened in a negative way, right? They're just new.   Michelle (35:34) Mm -hmm.   misalignment.   Rosanne Austin (35:46) Yeah, and it's just, it's more nudges in the right direction. So if you don't like the result that you're getting, then you have to ask yourself, what isn't lined up here? What can I do better from a loving perspective, from the perspective of commitment to what I say I want? And one of the first steps is how connected am I to my feminine? Or what is my thought process? What are my thoughts telling me?   you know, are my thoughts sounding more like a man, like, mm, you know, wagging the finger saying, you're not enough, this is stupid, why are you doing this? It's decidedly more masculine, right? When we're in our feminine, there's gonna be nurturing that's saying, hey, hey, babe, you know what, this isn't working. Let's look at something, some other options, right? It's decidedly different in energy. So number one, if you wanna switch gears, look at your result. From a completely dispassionate place, just say, hey,   is what I'm doing working and if it is not, what can I do differently? That's like the first step is that level of awareness. And then the second step would be to decide to be different. Now I know that that may sound vague, but in some ways it kind of is because for everyone the pursuit is gonna be different. What do I need to do different is gonna look different for everybody. I come from the perspective that it all starts with us.   It all starts with the mind because when your mind is lined up, then you'll do the right physical things. You'll pursue different things like your work. You'll pursue different avenues and a constellation of new opportunities will show up because you were different. So number one, look at the result. Number two, give yourself the opportunity like, hey, what can I do differently here? Truly from a place of, hey, I'm super committed to what I want.   and I wanna get there. So if I can love myself enough through this process and give myself plenty of runway to try things, it's more likely that I'm gonna get there than if I keep my narrow vision that there's only one way to get there. Because the feminine is all about the meandering. It's all about the exploration. And...   Michelle (37:59) Yeah.   Rosanne Austin (38:02) You know, if it was as simple, Michelle, as a sperm and an egg coming together, then not one of us would suffer on this journey. But we know that, you know, everybody's different and the journey is nonlinear. So it's like, open yourself up, try something new. Try the feminine fertility here. See if that works for you. Because I've seen women around the world tap into this power and create insane results. And it's my sincere hope that women listening will do the same.   Michelle (38:15) Right.   I really think that you're doing the right thing for your purpose. Like I really do. I feel like you are truly activated and doing your purpose and working your purpose because I feel like you're really making so many transformations happen. And I see it. I mean, it's literally happening around the world and it is a movement and this is why I love you so much. And I could keep talking to you for hours. I know you have to go.   I would love it if you just tell people how they can find you. Otherwise, I know the book's gonna be everywhere. Books are sold, right?   Rosanne Austin (39:07) Yeah, yeah. Well, I love you too, Michelle. And I really appreciate the support that you give to my work. And we're such a great pair because our work is so synergistic. And it's just fantastic. And I'm really honored to share that with your audience. And here's the thing. I like to encourage women, look, trust yourself. Trust yourself.   You have this ability to do this and there's nothing to be afraid of when it comes to the feminine. The feminine is your fertility superpower and the feminine is not just pink and sparkly shit. It's going to be expressed in your own unique way. And the sooner you make up with her, the sooner that you make her okay to be back in the room, she's gonna be your BFF. She is your fertility BFF and she's gonna show you the way.   Michelle (39:51) I love that.   Rosanne Austin (40:00) So I'm really excited to get this out in the world. I really hope women receive it with the love that it was written. And yeah, thanks for having me on. Thank you for sharing this.   Michelle (40:06) Beautiful.   thank you so much for coming on. It was awesome.   Rosanne Austin (40:13) Thanks, Michelle, bye!  

On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Naomi shares her personal fertility journey and how she discovered the mind-body link in fertility. She emphasizes the importance of mindset and emotional well-being in the fertility process. We discuss the concept of toxic positivity and the need to embrace and process uncomfortable emotions.    Naomi highlights the science-backed positive psychology techniques that can reduce stress and improve fertility success rates. Mind-body techniques can improve mental health, relationships, and overall quality of life.  Naomi emphasizes the importance of feeling good and finding joy during the fertility journey. She shares the power of hypnotherapy and emotional freedom technique (EFT) in shifting beliefs and accessing the subconscious mind.    Takeaways

• The mind-body link plays a crucial role in fertility, and mindset and emotional well-being are important factors to consider.
• Toxic positivity can be harmful, and it is essential to embrace and process uncomfortable emotions.
• Science-backed positive psychology techniques, such as mindfulness and hypnosis, can reduce stress and improve fertility success rates.
• Mind-body techniques not only improve fertility outcomes but also enhance mental health, relationships, and overall quality of life. Managing stress and finding joy during the fertility journey can improve overall well-being and increase pregnancy success rates.
• Hypnotherapy and emotional freedom technique (EFT) can be powerful tools in shifting beliefs and accessing the subconscious mind.
• Challenging medical assumptions and seeking second opinions can provide new perspectives and options for fertility treatment.
• Feeling good and having positive emotions can have a significant impact on fertility and overall health.
• The Embrace Fertility Method offers a comprehensive approach to fertility support, incorporating various techniques and personalized guidance.

    Guest Bio:    Naomi Woolfson, of Embrace Fertility, is a trauma trained therapist specialising in supporting women emotionally and energetically to conceive, carry and birth the babies they long to hold.   Alongside supporting clients globally in one to one therapy and coaching sessions Naomi runs an online 12 week mind-body group programme guiding women through the 5 steps of her unique Embrace Fertility Method; Comfort, Coping, Connection, Clearing and finally Creating.      Naomi hosts the Embrace Fertility podcast offering emotional support and sharing mind-body techniques to help you feel calm and confident and ultimately find yourself again while waiting for your baby.   Personally Naomi and her partner went through almost 4 years of infertility, IUI’s, IVF, anxiety, surgery and a miscarriage before conceiving both of their children naturally.   Visit www.embracefertility.co.uk for instant access to Thrive - A deep dive into the science backed mind-body techniques to emotionally and energetically thrive while trying to conceive. 3 x 30 min videos.    Naomi also offers specialist pregnancy support and runs the hypnobirthing course Embrace Bump to Baby of which the first week is free.    Instagram @embracefertility https://www.youtube.com/@embracefertility https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-woolfson/   For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com   Check out Michelle’s latest book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility   The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/   Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/     Transcript:   Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Naomi. I'm so excited to have you on today.   Naomi (00:04) Thank you for having me.   Michelle (00:06) Yes. So I would actually, first of all, love if you could tell your story because I know you've been through your own fertility journey. And I also, of course, I'm going to be very excited to talk to you today because as you know, this is like I nerd out on like the mind, body and just like how the mind works. And so I'm really excited to have you on. And then I just wanted for you to introduce yourself and give us your background.   Naomi (00:34) Yeah, so I went through infertility myself. We ended up having four rounds of fertility treatment. I was actually diagnosed with endometriosis as a teenager and told that I would probably need IVF to have children. But got married and I was like, nope, that's not gonna be me. I could be one of those women with endometriosis that just gets pregnant and it's fine. And I was very into the law of attraction and the secret and...   manifesting and set those intentions. I just set the intention. I was like, we're ready for a baby now. Come on. And then nothing happened. And then, you know, I was manifesting, I was doing my vision boards, my affirmations. And instead of getting a baby, I got ovarian cysts and ended up needing to have surgery. And they were like, you really, you know, really push you like into treatment now, like your endometriosis is getting worse, like every month you're not getting pregnant.   endometriosis is spreading. So I had a laparoscopy, they removed the cysts, did some laser action on the endometriosis, did treatment, didn't work, did more treatment, didn't work. And I was getting more and more anxious, more and more depressed. I was like, this isn't how it's supposed to be. And was feeling awful. And then found out about the mind body link and learned that it wasn't the fact I wasn't getting pregnant.   Michelle (01:34) Hehehe   Naomi (01:57) that was causing the anxiety and the panic attacks. It was my thoughts about the fact I wasn't getting pregnant. And this blew my mind because I was so interested in meditation and the law of attraction and all these things already, but I'd never really put that together. I was like, all right, so that means I don't have to wait till I get pregnant to then be okay. And they're like, yep, that's it. And I was like, no, don't believe that. That, just no.   And then as I was practicing mindfulness, like really getting in touch with what was going on and the beliefs I had about pregnancy, the beliefs I had about my body, came to this place of acceptance and actually felt happier then than I ever had in the past, even though I was yet to be pregnant. And then actually our fourth round of fertility treatment was successful and I got pregnant, but then I miscarried.   Michelle (02:47) Mm.   Naomi (02:54) And instead of going back into depression and anxiety, I actually felt hopeful for the future and then conceived naturally three months later after the miscarriage and then have my daughter naturally two years later. And so throughout all of this decided that I had to share these techniques. So I actually left my career in design while I was going through IVF, retrained as a hypnotherapist and was actually working and supporting women in this field like two years into my journey and then it was like another two years before I got pregnant myself.   Michelle (03:29) That's such an amazing story. And I love it for so many different reasons. And again, I apologize for the background noise if anybody's hearing that. but it's, it's incredible in so many ways. You know, the book I thought about when you were talking about that, have you ever read Man's Search for Meeting by Victor Frankel? And that blew my mind because I think that we are so conditioned and I think it is kind of like second nature to say, okay, well,   Naomi (03:45) Mm. Yeah.   Michelle (03:55) We can't possibly feel good if we're going through something that is difficult. That book specifically was like the most extreme of like what you could possibly go through. He was, you know, in a concentration camp. I mean, so you can't get worse than that. And the way he discussed about how we have one freedom that's left over, and that's the freedom of how we choose to view things.   And I think that is so profound because I really do feel like people think that they have no choice. So how did you finally, not just realize this, but also because you could realize it and you can hear it. And then sometimes you can fight that. So how did you like surrender to that and say, okay, you know, there's maybe, maybe it is how I'm looking at it. Cause that's a hard thing to go through.   Naomi (04:50) Yeah, and it was very much that I did fight it because my friend actually bought me that book like while we were going through Yeah, and I was like Why aren't you giving me this like well, that's depressing literally just put it on my shelf and I was like I'm too depressed to read something because it was so triggering and was and I was like I you know, I can't read that and it wasn't until like years later that like picked off the shelf and I was like this is what   Michelle (04:55) This book that I just mentioned? wow.   Naomi (05:18) that's why you wanted me to read it. But at the time I just wasn't receptive to that. But also with when people first started saying to me, it's like, you can be happy even without a baby. And all I could hear in that was them telling me to stop wanting a baby. And I was like, I've wanted a baby since I was like two and a half and my mum had my younger brother. I can't switch off me wanting to be a mum.   who I'm supposed to be, that's what I'm supposed to be. I really believed that. I was like, I can't turn that off. And then it was as I got deeper into it, they're like saying, they're not saying turn that off. They're saying stop desperately wanting it so much and believing that that's the thing that's suddenly gonna make everything okay. Because it's also they now I'm supporting women, they get that positive pregnancy test and they don't go, amazing. Well, I feel amazing now.   Michelle (05:47) Yeah.   Naomi (06:11) just a whole new set of worries come in, a whole new set of anxiety, because then they're like, well, now I need to get to the eight week scan, now I need to get to the 12 week scan, so here's a 20 week scan. Whereas if you can learn to come to that place, and I think for me, it was a combination of mindfulness meditation, journaling, emotional freedom technique, really exploring what my thoughts were doing to me. Like my thoughts were literally making me physically sick.   Michelle (06:17) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Naomi (06:40) having panic attacks, I wasn't sleeping, my digestion was all over the place, I had IBS and it was because of my my thinking I was making myself ill and it was only when I really sort of started to accept that that I could start to change whereas to start with was like no I just need to get pregnant as quickly as possible that will fix the anxiety I won't have panic attacks anymore once I'm pregnant, it'll be fine but obviously then it was months and months and months more of trying to conceive and it's living in that discomfort where you don't need to. So that's what I talk about a lot. It's like you don't have to live in this waiting zone of limbo. You can be happy now, you can be joyous now and still really, really, really want a baby and still be doing all the things you need to help you get pregnant, but not have that desperation and that like, if this doesn't happen this month, the world will end.   Michelle (07:37) Yeah. I mean, what you're saying right now is so profound and true and important because I think that part of it is just how we've been conditioned just as a people. I think everywhere, modern day times, everything's a quick fix. And really the outside is revered as like really the material world is revered as like the end all be all where in ancient times they've always pointed us internally.   Go within, go within, go within. The answer is within. And now you tell somebody that they're like, what do you mean? Like within, I want to get, let's be realistic. Okay. You know, so what's, but what is reality ultimately, right? But a reflection of our internal world, but we're trying to fix the reflection. I mean, this is really how I see it. There is a reflection. We know this also with quantum physics. There is something to that, that   Naomi (08:15) Thanks.   Michelle (08:35) everything that happens outside of us is really reflection. And that's not, I just want to say this, not to blame anybody. This isn't saying that it's your fault or anything like that, or that you can control everything. Not at all, but that internal world does have an impact really on your life. And I think that it's often overlooked, it's often ignored, and we get so hyper -focused on really what I would call the reflection rather than going.   within and starting from within where that in tandem is really beneficial. So not that the outside means nothing and it's just an illusion, but it is really important to address the inside. And I think that you're saying that you can actually feel happy and at peace while you're going through something difficult would be very hard to believe for a lot of people. And this is what I love is that you   have been there. It's not like you're just saying, you know, hypothetically, it would be really like easy for you. No, you know, you actually went through this and discovered it on your own journey.   Naomi (09:44) And I think that's so interesting is like, you know, now I have my two kids, they're both ginger, they're both born in June. It's like, it literally, the way it turned out, even though it took more years to happen, what I wanted has now, now exists. I wanted ginger babies, I wanted them to have June birthdays so we could have a giant bouncy castle, you know, garden birthday party. These things all happened, but now there are other things in my life.   that test me in the same way. And it's remembering, it's like going, you know, we'll feel happy and relaxed, like when we get to this point or, you know, summer holidays are a few weeks by a lot, we're just going to just get through these few weeks. And again, it's like we're rushing through life instead of being like, well, where's the joy in today? How do I want to be today? And instead of just being like, here's my to -do list, I'm going to plod through and cross through these things off. And it's like, well, no, every day.   Michelle (10:21) Hehe.   Mm -hmm.   Naomi (10:42) can be that gift and can be that, how do I wanna show up? And so it's like, you learn these techniques and it's not just to get you pregnant and then you're like, brilliant, pregnant now, can throw all this in the bin and move on. It's like, it's been constantly helpful throughout pregnancy, throughout labor, while the kids were tiny, like now they're starting to get bigger, you know, it's more dealing with the emotional storms that they're.   Michelle (10:56) Mm -hmm.   Naomi (11:09) going through rather than physical things like when they were younger. And so it's having these tools and techniques to fall back on each time and being like, they're my rock, like they're my foundation of how I do life. And so then if I don't practice them and kind of fall off the wagon, and then I'll really notice that. And it'll be like, you know, if you haven't brushed your teeth, you can really feel it and you're like, my teeth don't feel quite right. I feel the same now. It's like, if I don't meditate or don't journal,   Michelle (11:24) in.   Yeah.   Naomi (11:38) or I walked in the woods, I'm like, just my mind feels a bit icky, a bit like, I'm not, what's wrong? I haven't been for a walk. I haven't flossed my teeth. You know, it's that same, like, sort of, just something feels a bit off.   Michelle (11:43) Young.   Yeah. And I think that, we almost don't realize like how off we feel until we start to do things that are good for us. And then we're like, this feels really good. And I can't really go back because then that doesn't feel right. And I think that that's what it is. I feel like meditation is like mental hygiene. It's like   Naomi (12:09) Yeah. Yeah. And it's so often people are, they get really busy. And so you're like, I'll drop that. And I love that quote that it's like, if you're, you know, if you're, if you're busy, you should meditate for an hour a day. If you're really busy, you should meditate for two. And I just love that because it's so true when we get busy, we're like, we drop the things that are really good for us and can allow us to traverse the busyness and the things in life.   in a much more elegant way.   Michelle (12:38) Yes, totally. It's almost like when you're taking, I always look at the branches and the flowers and everything really comes from the root. And if you're ignoring the root where everything comes from and really not feeding the plant itself and nourishing, how is it supposed to sprout? How is it supposed to flower? You can't expect it to do that unless you're taking care of it. And I think that we need to, we must.   care of ourselves, like in every way. If we're expecting things from our body, if we want longevity, I mean, that's really the core of vitality.   For sure. And then let's talk about, okay, so we hear, and this is a pretty common thing in the fertility world, you know, this idea of, obviously there's science -backed positive psychology, which we know about, and then there's something called toxic positivity, which isn't as helpful. And then what happens is, which I find to be a shame, is that sometimes people get so like turned off.   by that, that they're not even willing to look at the science which actually can in fact help.   Naomi (13:47) Yeah, definitely. I think because there's this whole kind of culture of, if you just relax, it will happen. If you just stop thinking about it, if you just like the best yet, it's like, if you just stop trying, then you'll get pregnant. And I always used to say, it's like, this isn't going to be an immaculate conception. Like if we stopped trying, there will be no baby because we're not trying. And what people are trying to communicate is stop being so desperate. Stop like desperately   Michelle (14:07) Right, right.   Naomi (14:16) grasping for what you want, but if you tell someone who really wants something to stop wanting it, or you tell someone who's really stressed to stop being stressed, or you tell someone who's really worried to stop worrying, all you're doing is adding another worry, another stress, onto that list because now they're like, hang on, you're basically now saying that's my fault that I'm stressed, that I want it too much. And saying to a woman who's like, I was so   Michelle (14:32) Mm -hmm.   Right.   Naomi (14:44) sure I wanted to be a mum and I was so ready and I couldn't understand how my husband and I when we were newly married   We had like our home, like we were all ready to go and it wasn't happening for us. And I couldn't understand why like babies were being sent to other couples who, or you know, single men who weren't ready and didn't actually even want a baby. That was so confusing to me. And so then people saying to me, it's like, stop wanting it so much, like just stay positive and stick a smile on. And when I started researching into more, it's actually really, it can be really negative for you.   to try and remain positive all the time, because we're not designed to stay positive all the time. We're actually hardwired to notice the negative more than the positive to keep us safe. we're literally like primed like the whole time checking. And then if you take that, and it's also where like, we shouldn't really call any emotions negative. If we feel emotions that feel uncomfortable in the body that we label as negative.   we like shove them down and we're like, I don't want to feel like I don't want to feel. And so we try and numb out, scroll on our phones, like, you know, drinking, partaking in habits, like watching TV that we don't really want to watch, like all these things or comfort eating, things to kind of numb out these feelings and we shove them down. And all that happens is they build and they build and they build. At some point they'll come out. For me, it's panic attacks. For other people, it can be like a burst of rage or it can be just like bursting into tears in a meeting.   because there hasn't been an outlet to feel, experience, embrace those emotions that you're feeling. And once you start doing that, I can feel petrifying because so many of us, since we were like small children, you fall over, you cry, and you're told, you're okay. Don't cry. Stop crying. Here, lolly or here, have a toy. Here, be distracted. Swallow that pain down. No, we don't want to see it. That's not welcome here. And so when we start,   Michelle (16:30) Right.   Naomi (16:41) And a lot of the time the emotions we have, yeah, you're like, it's not okay for me. You know, I shouldn't cry, especially if it's like, if you're like really probably ugly cry like, you know, and you're like, like.   Michelle (16:42) It's that judgment. You feel that judgment.   I between. I only have an ugly cry. I almost wish I was one of those people that just like has a straight face and a beautiful tear. Nope.   Naomi (16:56) I guess you see my... little tear.   It's so raw and it's so animal. We're not used to allowing ourselves to really express ourselves in that way. And this is why I love emotional freedom technique, that you're literally using a technique that says, I embrace and accept all of this stuff. It's uncomfortable and I don't want it, but it's part of me, therefore I accept it. And as soon as we accept something, the resistance to it lessens. And then we're like, maybe that isn't as...   Michelle (17:24) Yeah.   Naomi (17:31) awful as I thought it was going to be and you can just sit with things a little bit. I've gone from a complete to a complete, but yes, so with toxic positivity, you're kind of basically going like, I'm fine. Everything is fine. Even, literally even women who've like had a miscarriage haven't told anyone, still gone into work, done these massive presentations and they're like.   Michelle (17:33) Yeah.   Yeah, keep that smile on your face.   Naomi (17:54) and then they wonder where they get home that night, go completely batshit crazy out their partner and have a full down meltdown and it's like it had to come out at some point and you've let it build and build and build instead of giving yourself the time and space to go I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna feel this now.   Michelle (18:14) Yeah, it's so important. And I've really like, I love the book, The Untethered Soul. He talks a lot about leaning into those uncomfortable emotions, because our knee jerk reaction is to stop anything that doesn't feel comfortable or good. And that is where the blocks happen. Because what we're doing is we're not actually removing it. We're actually keeping it in place by like not allowing it to process and to, I feel like it's like   emotions. You have to almost digest it so that it can go through and be processed because it's important to do that. But I love that book because he describes it in such a clear and easy to understand way on how you lean into it. Basically, you just sit with   Naomi (18:48) Yes.   Michelle (19:07) So it's not this internal denial of emotions. what's the science -backed positive psychology that you were referring to?   Naomi (19:17) Yeah, so a lot of my work, so my training is in cognitive hypnotherapy and everything, the training I'm in was like look at those studies, look at, you know, what's the evidence behind this? So we can obviously experience these techniques ourselves, see what many clients and seen the shift, seen the transformations that happen when they use these techniques and we do this work.   but I love going to the studies as well to really back up and go, because so many people are still like, that's really woo woo, that's really like out there. And I'm like, we've got studies. So some of them, to share through the negative ones to start with, are that women undergoing infertility treatment experience the same level of stress, anxiety and depression as women who have cancer, HIV or heart disease.   Michelle (19:51) Mm -hmm.   love it.   Naomi (20:09) So this is a real serious thing. This isn't like, I'm a little bit stressed because I can't have a baby. This is like massive, huge stress caused by the fertility treatment. So however stressed you were in life before this point, the treatment itself is adding to it. So in the post -traumatic stress disorder can develop in a third of women after miscarriage or eptopic pregnancy.   Michelle (20:14) Mm -hmm.   Naomi (20:34) and women who've experienced at least one unsuccessful IVF cycle and had depressive symptoms before continuing treatment experience the lowest success rate, which is probably one of the most depressing statistics I've ever had. You've had treatment to help you have a baby, it hasn't worked, and then if you start getting depressed about it, the next treatment has a lower chance of success. It's just such a depressing statistic.   Michelle (20:47) Mm -hmm.   Naomi (21:03) So of every statistic, I'm like, well, let's find the flip side of that. So that's a percentage of people. This study is saying this. Of every study, I like to find the flip side that backs up what that's saying, but with the positive or the opposite information. So that's where we come to things like using mindfulness is effective in reducing anxiety in women going through infertility by 76%.   Michelle (21:06) Mm -hmm.   Naomi (21:32) and reducing depression by 46%. Using hypnosis during embryo transfer can significantly improve IVF success rates and implantation rates. Depression, anxiety and stress among couples using emotional freedom technique was significantly less than those not using it. And the studies that show by practicing mind body techniques, you can actually double your chances of pregnancy success.   And they've shown that women going through the mind body studies at the IVF Boston Clinic, we're just having a better success rate within the six months that followed of them practicing these techniques. So this is kind of a slow burn. These aren't like, meditate for a day. You're going to get pregnant. This is more like, this is a lifestyle choice that I'm then implementing. I'm making this part of my, my life for the next few months. And then you're going to be improving your   Michelle (22:17) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Naomi (22:29) chances and I've done a little, let me show you that. So these are the things that mind body techniques decrease are anxiety, depression, stress, anger, worry, jealousy and fear. And it improves quality of life, your relationship with others and yourself, resilience, hope and pregnancy success rates. So it's very much like the pregnancy success rates always say is like the cherry on the top. All the other things are like, that's what we want to be focused on. We're getting you happy.   managing stress, getting you to feel really good. And then a pregnancy is like, yay, that's the extra bit, but we're doing this for you and your wellbeing.   It's like getting you feeling good, improving your quality of life during this time allows you to then be making decisions from a place of confidence, calm confidence, rather than a place of fear. Like I felt like I kept going into treatment because I was being told that was the only option for me, that that was the best option for me. And for the first...   three rounds of treatment I did, I was so stressed, I hated it. And it was just so, so hard. And then I started practicing these techniques. So the fourth round of treatment I did was a breeze and so, so different from the three before. Then I got pregnant naturally anyway. So it's like, but it's having these techniques that made what I was going through, it just felt completely different on that fourth round.   Michelle (23:42) Mm -hmm.   Yes. And also, I don't know if you've heard of the study about laughter therapy after transfers improves the chances of pregnancy mean, that's pretty wild, like that endorphins and laughter and being in this kind of state that's elevated could really impact that ability for it to stick. And then I suggest for people to do it really throughout the IVF, like just...   Watch comedies. Don't watch anything too heavy. Lift your emotions I'm like a huge fan of Dr. Joe Dispenza's work and I've been going to   and he talks a lot about the studies and really the two main things that they deduce from everything, from the techniques that he does, the two big things are your thoughts and your emotions.   So it's not just your thoughts. This is kind of like the emotions are sort of like that magic ingredients that activates the thoughts. That's why some people have a hard time with just doing affirmations because when you're just thinking or saying the same thing over without any emotion tied, then it's not as effective. So having a heightened state of emotion is what really impacts a lot of what happens in our bodies and how our bodies respond.   people really overcoming major, major diseases that they are told by the experts cannot be overcome because that is working through that material world versus the quantum, which is really where our minds, the worlds of our minds, that is the thing that we can access that we can't access through the material world. Yes, we could try to do things. We can...   take things out and do the surgery and do all the physical things that we need that take a little longer and are more dense. It's a more dense approach, not to say that it shouldn't exist. But then there's the other non -dense approach, which is the mind and coming to that place where you're able to shift things in a different level. Just like you said with meditation, you want more time, meditate longer. That's because you're going to a place where you're able to, I believe,   make magic and so elevating that emotion and now we know really with studies like the heart math, I'm sure you've looked into that, right? Heart math and how our hearts and brains have a coherence. Well, Chinese medicine has been saying that for thousands of years and then we know that the heart impacts the uterus. So having that heart and now we're seeing it in studies. I mean, all the things that you're listing are pretty much   pointing in that direction, how we feel in our life, how we feel in our world. And I think the biggest thing that you said that was just so spot on is that you can actually feel good while going through these things. Like that is the biggest like, my God, because I think that a lot of people don't really realize it. This is why I want to repeat that again, because you can feel good. You could thrive.   Naomi (27:02) Yeah.   Michelle (27:05) while you're going through this journey.   Naomi (27:08) I remember that like once I'm actually crying like tears of joy and still trying to conceive I kind of remember what happened it was something like really small thing like I think I was just sat in the park and the sun was saying and it was so beautiful and I just sat and I just had a little cry but of joy and I don't think I'd ever cried from from joy before and it kind of was like wow that this feels   so powerful, I'm so overcome with positive emotion right now that I'm having this massive physical reaction to it. And I was just like, that's pretty special. That's pretty special that I'm now so open and I've managed to clear all of, because before I used to have this ongoing repetitive thought of like, what if you never get pregnant? What if the endometriosis just gets worse and then...   you have to have a hysterectomy and then that's it. Like, you know, it's like the thoughts were just this, they're like churning, churning. I'd like to wake up in the morning and my thoughts would just, would just be like attacking me. And it was then when I learned it's like my thoughts aren't deliberately doing this to make me feel really ill. They're doing it because they're trying to protect me what my, my inner self is. So do quite a lot of parts work with hypnotherapy. So the part of me that was petrified that I never get to be a mom. So it was telling me all these thoughts and telling me like,   Michelle (28:15) Mm -hmm.   Naomi (28:33) Get on it, do more treatment, like do more acupuncture, do more herbs, do all the things, do it all today. You need to think. And then the part of me that was like, it's gonna be okay, like I can walk this path, I can do what I need to do to support myself. It's gonna be okay. And when I could get myself into this place, I could see things like the sunset and I could be touched by that instead of being so blocked off by the light, the fear and the worry and the just.   Michelle (28:57) Mm -hmm.   Naomi (29:03) what if never and everyone else has that and I'm getting left behind and how does that, how do I traverse that? And it's like just bringing yourself totally back into the present moment and being like, and sometimes that's so hard. Like meditation for me was almost impossible to start because I just sit there and my mind would be like, yay, you're really listening now. Let's give you everything. And like only just so much.   Michelle (29:08) Mm -hmm.   Yeah.   All the fears.   Naomi (29:29) yeah, all that stuff. So emotional freedom technique for me was amazing because I remember saying that intention. I think we were about a year into trying to conceive and I set the intention that what I wanted was a way to turn off my mind. I was like, I'm going to be able to turn off my mind. I just want to press a mute button and just have my thoughts be quiet. And meditation didn't work for me like that. Like so many people are like, we just learned to meditate. That just didn't happen. It just, my thoughts got louder. Whereas with EFT,   because I had a process and a way to work through the thoughts. I remember the first time I had a kind of blank mind of just quietness and I was like...   Michelle (30:02) Hmm.   Ha ha.   Naomi (30:09) too far away from what I was capable of at the time.   Michelle (30:13) So that's interesting. That's actually really good information because I know a lot of people have a hard time with meditation. Although I do think you could get there through meditation, it is a little bit more torture. Like if you don't do other things. So I think that that's a really good thing for people to hear is maybe to look into emotional freedom technique as a sort of in -between to get you from point A to point Z. So you're able to really get in there and feel more peace while you're meditating.   Naomi (30:27) Yeah.   Yeah, to support the work you're doing alongside. Yeah.   Michelle (30:44) quick question just for don't really know as much about hypnotherapy, like why is it so powerful?   what are the things, because I know because I'm trained, but like the subconscious mind, talk about like the beliefs that are in there that are so like lodged into the makeup of our being that they almost take over our free will and talk about why it's so important to have those types of therapies to shift those really ingrained beliefs.   Naomi (31:20) Yeah, so I think for me, like to set it with a story. So for me, because I've been diagnosed with endometriosis and that was due to incredibly painful periods, the beliefs I had that I just wasn't aware of were my body is broken. You know, I have endometriosis, therefore, like I had this, even though logically and on the surface I could say, I'm not gonna need treatment. You know, we're just gonna have our babies naturally.   I think I was really holding that belief of like, you know, a doctor, person in authority had told, so, you know, like a man in his like fifties had told 19 year old me, you're probably gonna need IVF to have babies. Like, you know, buckle up, that's probably what's gonna happen. And I'd like taken that on as a belief. And so for me, it was working through, and I didn't trust my body because of the endometriosis and because of the pain I'd experienced, I could only link like,   pregnancy and birth with a lot of pain because people had said to me, giving birth is like, you know, period pain, but like a thousand times worse. Whereas because I had period pain that had meant, you know, I'd nearly passed out from the pain that I'd nearly rang, you know, an ambulance to come and collect me because I collapsed on a walk. So in my head, I was like, that's period pain. Birth is worse than that? God. Whereas then now I've given birth twice. One birth was pain free. One birth was   Michelle (32:22) Mm -hmm.   Naomi (32:44) painful but only for 15 minutes because she came in such a rush and birthed herself, I was in labor for 40 minutes. I now know the people that said, you know, labor was like pain, but worse. One probably hadn't practiced hypnobirthing and weren't like prepared for what their body was going to do, but also probably had like little tiny cramps that were like, little thing, not like massive endometriosis cramps. So for me, it was unpicking all these beliefs of what, what   Michelle (32:59) Mm -hmm. Yeah.   Naomi (33:12) my body meant like what my fertility meant and they can be like yeah like you said like deep inside that we're not even aware of but they impact the way we think the decisions we make the behaviors we have and so for me like whenever it was my period i was so used to just taking painkillers pushing on through my cycle ended up flying from london to glasgow and back for a one -hour meeting on the first day of my cycle and i haven't made traces and we were trying to   trying for a baby. So I was obviously massively disappointed that I wasn't pregnant, had horrific cramps, took a load of painkillers, got on this plane and I got home at, you know, like nine o 'clock at night that evening. And I was just like, what am I doing? Like I'm just pushing, pushing, pushing myself for my job. Like why on earth didn't I just say I can't fly up that week?   Obviously, you know, I didn't feel in a position at the time to go, I'm probably going to be getting my period then. But it's like, I should have, you know, it's like now, if I was in that position, I would be like, I have endometriosis, that's not gonna, that's not gonna work for me. That's not, I can't, I can't basically. Physically, I'm not gonna be able to do that. It's gonna need to be shifted. Although saying that, I wouldn't say that now because now, now I don't have really painful periods because I've dealt with all the things with my period. So that's something to say as well. It's like,   Michelle (34:06) Yeah.   Naomi (34:35) I just accepted that I would always have incredibly painful periods. And then when I worked with an acupuncturist, when I worked through the beliefs I had about my body and about pain and about rest, I was then having pain -freeperiods. The point I would like get my period and I'd literally be like, whoa, what's that? because I had no cramps, I'd had no buildups. I literally be like shocked when I saw red, because I'd just be like, I wasn't,   Michelle (34:39) Hmm.   Mm -hmm.   great.   Naomi (35:02) Yeah, it was such a different experience. So we need to, if you can really get to inside, and this is the joy of hypnotherapy, that we can access the subconscious mind in a really safe way and be like, what's in here? What are the things that are not serving you? What are the beliefs that we can choose to let go of and choose to install new beliefs? So in the latest trauma training I've done over the last couple of years,   I'm actually taking the beliefs you have, removing them and installing new beliefs. And that like absolutely fascinates me. And in the space of two weeks, clients being like, this is how I feel. This is what I believe. This is what I'd like to believe, but that's complete BS. Not a chance. I don't believe it. And then we do the work and by the end of the two weeks, and then they're kind of like, yep, I am like, yep, that's my new belief. That's new way of.   thinking, feeling, experiencing the world literally in new thought pans that then changes their behaviors, changes the way they make decisions about, you know, not just their fertility, but their relationships, their work, their health, all these areas. And it seems so, it seems so simple to me because I'm in this work all the time, but obviously people are really like, my God, like this is huge. Like I don't, I used to believe this and I believe this. my God. And I'm like.   Of course. And it's like, and they're like, it's massive. Like one client said it was Superman, like supercharged, these thoughts and like just like completely defeating Luke.   Michelle (36:31) amazing.   Naomi (36:41) Lex Luthor when she never thought that would be possible whatsoever and just changing that just being like God   Michelle (36:46) Yeah, I love that. Because, you know, thoughts give power and then they can also take away power depending on the thought. And also when you talked about like an older man, an authority figure, you know, how you said your experience was with your doctor. Keep in mind when you're trained in hypnotherapy, they talk about that.   They talk about one of the things that can hypnotize people. is because when you see somebody as this authority figure and you view them in this high regard, which we do a lot of times with   behind their names or after their names, then we could give them our power and allow whatever they're saying to have absolute authority over us. And that could be in a sense,   hypno session right there,   Naomi (37:39) Yeah, and yeah, it's like you need to be, I think, love the work we do. We're not hypnotizing people, we're de -hypnotizing them. And we're bringing you back out of the trance state that you've been living in, like especially around birth. And we still set up society, society's just set up to basically tell us birth is to be feared, birth is painful, birth is all these things. That's not true. And so we can...   Michelle (37:46) Yeah, my God, I love that. Yes.   Yeah.   Yeah.   Naomi (38:06) de -hypnotize ourselves   Michelle (38:08) I love how you put that because it is, it's kind of like waking up, becoming more conscious in our life, becoming more conscious of our power and what we really can do for ourselves. And I think that that's, that's the biggest thing. I really feel very passionate about it because I myself have had times where   I felt completely powerless in my life and I believed a lot of things about myself and my body. And so I think that when you come out of that, you're like, everybody needs to know this. Like everybody needs to know, you know? And I think we have that in common.   Naomi (38:43) I think that's what's so exciting because I work with so many women that are like, my doctor's told me this, as if it's a fact. And I'm like, have you got a second opinion? And they're just like, well, no, but they work on Harley Street and they're top of their game. And I was like, you might want to get a second opinion on that. Then they go and get a second opinion. And they're like, no, they've told me, actually, that my results don't mean that at all. And I'm like, hmm, hmm.   Michelle (38:54) Exactly. third opinion.   There you go. Yep.   Naomi (39:11) Because when you work with so many women in this field and people have very similar stories and like medical backgrounds, for example, and so you can be like, well, this person was told this and now this person is being told this, like, let's just not take that as, you know, that is what is. Especially when it comes to age or medical conditions like endometriosis, PCOS.   Michelle (39:19) Yes.   you   Naomi (39:37) there was some doctors that very fixed in this then means this. And it's like from, you know, my case on paper, I wasn't supposed to get pregnant naturally twice, but I did. They can't explain it. There wasn't anything medically different. But it's like, it happened when it happened and then it happened again. So it's like, why was that?   Michelle (39:42) Bye.   Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly.   But so first of all, I can keep talking to you for hours. I think that we have a lot in common. We are very into, the power of our minds and empowerment and really kind of like setting people up for empowerment. So for people listening to this, I'm sure a lot of people are really fascinated by everything that you're sharing. How can people find   Naomi (40:24) Yeah, so the best place to find me is on Instagram. That's where I hang out, have a lot of fun on Instagram. So just embrace fertility. My website is embracefatility .co .uk because I'm based in England and my podcast is basically embrace fertility everywhere. I run a 12 week course, the embrace fertility method, sharing the techniques and some of the techniques I've been talking about today. So emotional freedom technique.   mindfulness, CBT, hypnotherapy. And then I also work with clients one to one for a minimum of 12 weeks support. So everyone that works for me does the Embrace Fertility Method and then can add those sessions on. And yeah, just come say hi on Instagram.   Michelle (41:10) Awesome. Naomi, I love talking to you and I'm so happy we connected and thank you so much for coming on today.   Naomi (41:20) Thank you for having me, it's been fun.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée is a nontoxic lifestyle expert and author of A to Z of D-Toxing: The Ultimate Guide to Reducing Our Toxic Exposures and several detox workbooks. She is praised by experts in both medical and wellness fields for her practical approach to avoiding toxins and cultivating a healthier home environment. Sophia served on the Brown University School of Public Health Advisory Council and Well + Good Council. A graduate of Brown University and Columbia Business School, Sophia has helped thousands of people enjoy healthier lives by simplifying nontoxic living, while protecting the ease and convenience of modern life.   https://www.ruanliving.com/nontoxic-cleaning-guide-may   Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter) - Instagram: @ruanliving, https://www.instagram.com/ruanliving/ - Facebook: Ruan Living, https://www.facebook.com/ruanliving - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srgushee/ - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ruanliving     For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com   The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/   Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility   Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/     Transcript:   Michelle (00:01) Welcome to the podcast, Sophia.   Sophia Gushee (00:03) Thank you for having me.   Michelle (00:05) It's a pleasure to have you and to talk about something that I feel is so important. It's definitely like an uphill battle. I think that a lot of people are facing, but can be done in a easier way and approached in easier way. And I'm really happy to have you on to talk about this important topic. But before we get started, I would love for you to introduce yourself and give us a background and what got you into the work that you're doing.   Sophia Gushee (00:34) I'd be happy to. I never could have imagined that I would be focused on simplifying non -toxic living. I grew up in upstate New York, always interested in eating healthy. I grew up in a tennis loving family. I exercised a lot since I was really young. And yet I always felt poor energy, felt really bad. And since...   People always said to me, you're the healthiest person I know. And I felt really bad. I just thought something was wrong with me. I ended up after graduating from college, working on Wall Street for about 10 years in distressed investing. So I would focus on high risk, high return investments with imperfect information. And my job was to figure out.   what are the value creation strategies we can execute to create the most value? And when I became a mom at age 34, I started accidentally learning about toxic chemicals, heavy metals, and radiation from what I was buying for my infant. And since I never heard about this before, my like,   highly respected physicians never put it on my radar. My reaction ended up being very similar to what I did professionally with distress investing. I had to figure out are there credible sources to back up what I'm reading? What are the good facts? Why do the physicians not know about this? And what's a reasonable level of concern?   always I ended up finding enough information that made me want to make a healthier choice. And I ended up developing a platform and a lifestyle to simplify how to make safer choices with shopping and simple things you do at home. So Ruan Living is based on the easy things you can do to reduce your toxic exposures. I ended up   spending about eight years sharing the science that I learned about that I wish I knew sooner in a book that was published in 2015 and that's called A to Z of Detoxing, The Ultimate Guide to Reducing Our Toxic Exposures. But since I never wanted to read a book about this, I just wanted an informed mom to tell me what I should know and what I could do in as little time as possible. And I never found that resource. I've been   building offerings to serve that desire of my younger self because learning how to not buy toxic exposures to bring into your home should not be as hard as it's been.   Michelle (03:40) Oh my God, when you said simplify, I'm like, yes, that is exactly what we need because I find, and I found this when I first started working with fertility and of course learned about what the impacts were from these endocrine disruptors and the toxins that were exposed to from the chemicals that are in our products to our like healthcare and not healthcare them.   I mean, the clean products in our, not clean products, I don't know why I'm getting, I'll delete this part. Cleaning products in our house, you know, there's so many different ways that it sneaks in, but it also in receipts, you know, things that you would never even consider. And then also pesticides and I mean, you can just like, you can keep going and EMFs too. That's another, that's a whole other topic.   Sophia Gushee (04:15) cleaning products.   Michelle (04:36) But yeah, we're exposed to a lot of things that we're not supposed to be exposed to. And when I first learned about this, I remember myself feeling overwhelmed, but then also being afraid to overwhelm my patients and my clients, because it can be really overwhelming to hear about. First of all, it makes you feel bad and then worried like, well, what happened up until this point? You know what I mean? I've been doing all these things and not realizing that I'm harming my body.   But secondly, how does one get started? You know, that it feels like such an uphill battle and it feels like it's so overwhelming. I think that that was one of the things that I always struggled with in explaining things to my patients.   Sophia Gushee (05:21) It's hard. Not everyone wants to know. And so I don't push it on people. But for those who are curious, I want them to know what I have to offer so that they can learn to modify things in their lifestyle and their purchases that they don't mind making. And the thing...   Michelle (05:25) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (05:49) The main thing is, I forgot to finish a point I started with. Even though I felt really poor energy most of my life, it wasn't until after I started detoxing my home and detoxing my diet and other things to reduce my toxic exposures that I started to feel better than ever. And this is now during a stage in my life where I don't eat as well as I used to.   I don't exercise as much as I used to. I have three kids, so I've been busy with that and working a ton. I don't sleep as well, and yet I feel better than ever. And I really do believe it's the reduced body burden that I undoubtedly now have. And when I look at images of mice who have been exposed to a lot of bisphenol A,   a popular hormone disrupting chemical found in many household products like plastics. And I see how obese the mouse is in comparison to the control mouse who was not exposed to BPA. I think that's how I felt like all of high school. So what I encourage people to do is to follow an elimination diet. Pick one thing.   one change you don't mind making often cleaning products is a really good start or your food containers or your pots and pans. Most people don't feel an emotional connection to those things and make a small change. And over time, you're going to feel really good about it, whether you feel better or you're just feeling empowered and you'll feel ready for another change. And over time,   There are a variety of symptoms that are alleviated for a lot of people, whether it's skin issues or energy or other outcomes. A lot of studies actually show that these toxic exposures are influencing reproductive health and assisted reproductive technology outcomes. So if you're struggling to get pregnant,   and you want to do everything you can for the healthiest pregnancy outcome possible, then detoxing your home and the other aspects of your life that you can do at a pace that's comfortable for you will be an invaluable investment for yourself and your offspring and also their offspring.   Michelle (08:35) Absolutely. Actually, let's talk about pots and pans because I feel like that's always a confusing subject. What are good ones that you recommend?   Sophia Gushee (08:47) I stick to the materials that have been around since before the Industrial Revolution. So cast iron, stainless steel, and glass are the staples in my home. After about 12, 13 years of just those pots and pans, which are black and metal, I went through a period of really missing color. And so I bought a ceramic   Michelle (08:58) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (09:17) cast iron skillet thinking at the time based on my research that that was probably safe and then after spending probably about $200, very expensive pan, but it was a very pretty pink. I read that it could have lead in it and so my practical approach is I'm not going to throw it out. I like seeing the color around. I use it sparingly and   Acidic foods like tomatoes can wear at the coating of cast iron and stainless steel. So you want to try and not like make tomato sauce in those materials. And so I eventually bought glass cookware. And so the glass is for the tomatoes and other acidic foods. But I also use the...   ceramic glazed cast iron sometimes.   Michelle (10:19) Got it. But the ceramic glazed cast iron, you were saying sometimes it can have lead. Is that what it is?   Sophia Gushee (10:25) Yeah, studies on ceramics and ceramic glazed cookware have found mixed results. Some of them have found lead and probably other toxic chemicals too. It's just, you know, if they were just testing for lead, that's all they're going to find. But if they tested for a longer list of things, I have no doubt they'd find other things.   Michelle (10:37) Mm -hmm.   God, I wish they just didn't do this in the first place. So it would make our life so much easier. No, that they didn't put these chemicals in there or these like things that are harmful for the human body.   Sophia Gushee (10:54) that they don't test.   Well, they serve a purpose. I mean, sometimes these toxic exposures or substances are there accidentally, not intentionally. But sometimes lead is often used in many household products to create a desired color, to create weight in costume jewelry and children's jewelry. So if you think about it, this   Michelle (11:08) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (11:27) like let's call it fake jewelry is made out of plastic. That's pretty light to make it feel more weighty, like a real, like, I don't know, heavy gold necklace. Heavy metals are used. And when lead has been replaced, it's often been replaced by cadmium, another heavy metal that is also toxic. So I have a 40 -day home detox that really tries to...   Michelle (11:49) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (11:55) inform your common sense in this way because it's not really practical or effective to avoid chemical by chemical. I started out when I started learning about this topic, I developed a list of chemicals to avoid. So I'd read product labels to avoid BPA or phthalates or parabens. And then I just realized that substitute chemicals are   Michelle (12:07) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (12:24) not always safer, sometimes they're more harmful. So BPA, for example, is a chemical that is used in the inner lining of canned foods and plastics on receipts, as you said earlier. In trying to use a safer formula or less controversial one, manufacturers would replace it with things like BPS or others.   and scientists have found that BPS can be even more harmful. And so I ended up, you know, it is, we're now shifting, like governments are shifting towards regulating families of chemicals, which is much more impactful. For example, California is looking to regulate the family of forever chemicals, not just specific ones, like specific forever chemicals, like   Michelle (12:56) Oh, wow.   Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (13:22) PFOA or PFOS. But I actually in my book, A to Z of Detoxing, identified what I call household repeat offenders. So as you get to know materials or just things like, like I was saying, colors in your home, in like costume jewelry and ceramics, and understand that colors are used.   for example, lead and cadmium used to create weight or lead is used to deepen, I think it's red or orange. I specify this in the 40 day home detox program. It just tells your common sense, oh, that's high risk. Most likely there's a heavy metal in there to create that rich deep color or to create weight for plastic. But...   Michelle (14:10) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (14:19) I forgot your question.   Michelle (14:20) Oh, no. I mean, it's just, it's just, yeah, it's all, it's all important. Like I think it's all important because when it comes to really understanding and kind of navigating through this, it could be very overwhelming. And one of the things is like you were saying, when you're focusing on one ingredient at a time, I mean, who can remember all of those things? That's the reality. Another thing that comes to my mind too, is you would think like,   Sophia Gushee (14:23) Pots and pans, lots of hands.   Yeah.   Michelle (14:48) water or like a sparkling water, I know a lot of them have forever chemicals in them.   Sophia Gushee (14:56) Yeah, water is tricky. Bottled water will have lots of micro plastics or nano plastics if it's in a plastic bottle, but even tap water can get contaminated through the pipes and the kitchen fixtures. So I think it's really worth investing in a water filter that is comfortable for your budget.   Michelle (15:06) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (15:24) Any level of filtration is better than none. But just going back to pots and pans, just so listeners know there's a resource. I have a blog on my website that's the most popular blog on my website and it's on pots and pans. And so I list the specific ones that I use for my home because it is, I research every product I can. I find it.   Michelle (15:26) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (15:51) not only important but intellectually really interesting and even some stainless steel pots and pans, you know, they're not all the same and glass is not all the same. So I try and make it really easy for people to click and buy if that's what they want to do or share my thought process so people can do their own research.   Michelle (16:01) Mm -hmm.   Right.   That's awesome. So you do have a lot of resources on specific brands or what you've looked into that is clean. Like another thing is spatulas, you know, they say that the silicone spatulas are better because they could withstand high heat, but then sometimes they, they overlay rubber, which isn't good. So I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?   Sophia Gushee (16:43) I'd like to use the example of chocolate chip cookies. There's so many formulas, there's so many recipes for chocolate chip cookies. I grew up with chocolate chip cookies being made of white... Well, if you think about it, I grew up with chocolate chip cookies being really unhealthy. They were made of white sugar, white flour, bad oils. And nowadays there's some really great...   Michelle (16:55) I am now craving chocolate chip cookies.   Sophia Gushee (17:12) paleo recipes made of almond flour. I'm making it up. I don't know if it's almond flour, but like super healthy flour, healthier sugars, healthier chocolate. It can almost be healthier than most American breakfast options. And that idea is true for plastics, for silicone.   for glass, for stainless steel. It depends on the recipe. And so silicone, I'm skeptical of. I'm sure like ideally medical grade silicone is what you wanna use. So for things like pacifiers or baby bottle nipples, I did my best to find medical grade silicone. For cooking, I avoided silicone and plastics for a while.   Michelle (17:43) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (18:07) I would just use wooden spatulas and metal just when I need it. But you want to be careful not to use metal on cast iron and stainless steel because the scratching of the surface, even if you have nonstick pots and pans, scratches just facilitate the leaching of chemicals and metals into your food. So wood is better. But sometimes, like if you're making pancakes or you want to scoop up an egg,   from your pan then silicone. I finally bought one silicone spatula.   Michelle (18:43) So yeah, so in certain circumstances, but ultimately would be the best.   Sophia Gushee (18:50) Wood is ideal. And if I remember correctly, I read this trick to tell if silicone was high risk. And if you bend it, like some bakeware is made of silicone, even a spatula, you can maybe like bend the tip. If you can see, let's say your spatula is a blue silicone. If you see a little white and you bend it, then that's a signal that it might not be the healthiest.   Michelle (19:14) Right.   Sophia Gushee (19:20) So let's go.   Michelle (19:20) Right, because it has rubber inside. Yeah, I remember reading that as well. I was like, oh, that's interesting. So some are just better quality that they're like more thorough or there's a certain grading, right?   Sophia Gushee (19:23) Yeah.   next.   Yeah, there are love different levels of purity.   Michelle (19:38) Awesome. And then are there filters you recommend? I know I'm getting into the details, but I know that I have those questions and I think a lot of people do. It's like all those details are things that people know because water is so important. And of course they had Berkey, which was huge. Now they shut down. So like what's next? Yeah, I heard this is what I heard. I mean, I have, I have one and I have one at my office, but I know, but I did actually hear.   Sophia Gushee (19:42) Yeah, I know, I'm happy to see it.   versus Chess now.   Michelle (20:08) And I don't know that they had like a lawsuit and they lost. And so they shut it down. So now that there are other companies that distribute them, but you don't know which one's official. So it's kind of, I'm not sure.   Sophia Gushee (20:26) Excuse me.   I have spent so much time on water filtration and air filtration. I...   Michelle (20:33) Yeah.   Sophia Gushee (20:40) This is what I do. I have, I'm so paranoid about what's in the water that I have invested to the best of my ability. And so under our kitchen sink, we have a nine stage water filtration system. So there's reverse osmosis, which removes everything, but one water.   Michelle (20:59) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (21:09) expert explained to me, I'd never heard it before and I couldn't verify it online, but it kind of made sense. One water expert said to me that if you're drinking water that's stripped of everything and therefore unbalanced, as it goes through your body, it's looking to balance itself so it can leach your bones of minerals and take in other ways.   Michelle (21:28) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah, I heard about that.   Sophia Gushee (21:33) So that made me really nervous. So I also have other materials in the water filtration system to rebalance the water. There's also activated carbon. And in our country home, we also have, our country home is in an area that has cancer clusters. So I'm even more paranoid about water out there. So I have a whole house water filtration system. So it's about, I think,   Michelle (21:55) Oh, wow.   Sophia Gushee (22:03) I don't know how many pounds, like a huge tank of activated carbon in our basement. So all the water entering our home gets filtered through the activated carbon and then distributed throughout the rest of our home, which was important to me at the time I installed it because my young kids were taking long backs. And...   Michelle (22:26) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (22:29) but I still felt like I don't think that's enough, because there's just so much bad activity around our country home with a pharmaceutical company there and like some industrial activity. And so I also installed this nine stage water filtration system under the sink. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, then even a...   picture with activated carbon is better than nothing. When I travel, I have water bottles that have a water filtration system in the water bottle. Because I notice when I travel, I end up not really drinking water because I'm afraid to drink water. And so that's helped. But my kids won't use it. They all have it, but they refuse to drink from it. So I'll keep trying.   Michelle (23:00) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   I know the kids don't like to listen to us sometimes, but also when you use that, so you were talking about that charcoal. So that's not reverse osmosis. It's too simple. Right. So it just basically cleans it out with the charcoal.   Sophia Gushee (23:37) That's not.   the water filter, the water bottle.   Michelle (23:44) The water, yeah.   No, no, the water filter in the house. You had mentioned that you had the charcoal and then you had the night.   Sophia Gushee (23:51) The basement has just the activated charcoal. And so that's actually a specific thing you want to ask for because not all charcoal is the same. So you want activated charcoal. And that just absorbs a lot of toxins. But after the water gets distributed through the pipes, it's going to pick up other things from the pipes.   Michelle (23:59) Okay.   Sophia Gushee (24:18) But also I don't think the activated charcoal is necessarily getting the forever chemicals or nanoplastics. So that's why I feel crazy talking about this or admitting it, but I then have the nine -stage water filtration system underneath the spout for drinking water. And it's just for drinking water. I don't use it for cooking.   Michelle (24:41) Mm -hmm. It's not crazy. That's the thing. It's not crazy to want clean water. You know, it's really not. It's just so common to really be exposed to things we shouldn't be exposed to that we have to go out of our way to add all these reinforcements in order to just have clean water, you know, in our life.   Sophia Gushee (25:07) Plus, I was learning about all the contaminants in water with really young kids and during pregnancies and nursing and knowing how influential these toxic exposures can be to young developing life. I would do anything to protect my children from these endocrine disruptors and neurotoxicants and carcinogens.   So I did my best, but it was really hard to figure out. It really took probably over 10 years because not all the water filtration experts had a holistic understanding of my concern. So it just took many conversations and it took a while to find experts that were informed.   Michelle (26:02) And are there ones you recommend or do you have anything on your website of which types of water filtration you recommend from like a pitcher to something under your sink?   Sophia Gushee (26:15) I don't remember if I do in the blog. I have a detox Academy. It's a membership where that's where I am much more personal about the products in my home. I share a lot on the blog too, but I often, I, I often want to be able to provide more context for things because nothing's perfect. So I just want to be able. So in my detox Academy, there's more context for.   Michelle (26:28) Mm -hmm.   Yeah.   Sophia Gushee (26:44) the pros and cons of a product, why I chose it. So for example, sunscreen. I reevaluate every year. It's highly complex. When my kids are really young, there is a certain brand of sunscreen that was rated the most non -toxic, but it's a thick white cream. So as my kids became more verbal, they're like, no. And now they're teenage girls. And so,   Michelle (26:48) Mm -hmm.   Yes, and the kids don't like it. They don't like it. Yeah.   Sophia Gushee (27:14) branding matters, you know, like there are a lot of things that go into whether a teenage girl is going to reapply or apply sunscreen. So I had to go more toxic with some products. And so I just explain a lot more of those personal things in the detox academy because I was raised being told if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. And so I just am shy or reserved about.   Michelle (27:17) Oh yeah.   Mm -hmm, right.   Sophia Gushee (27:43) talking about brands or products that are more toxic, but in the detox academy, I'll say, you know, this brand has a higher toxicity rating, but I use it because if I don't, then my children won't reapply sunscreen.   Michelle (27:45) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.   But no, it makes sense. I mean, I think it is something that can be addressed in a balanced way because otherwise, I mean, it'll, it'll create your, you know, it'll really create a lot of stress, which I feel like is also toxic. So you got to do it in a way that's balanced and sensible and a way that works.   Sophia Gushee (28:21) Yeah, it's really important to not aim to be perfect about it and non -toxic does not exist. That's why I often say, like my podcast is called Practical Non -Toxic Living because you also have to enjoy life and that means taking risks and branding.   Michelle (28:30) Right.   Yeah, it's true.   Sophia Gushee (28:48) Brings a lot of joy to teenage girls.   Michelle (28:50) For sure. Well, I'm glad that you're saying that because I think that that is, you know, it's definitely an important aspect to address because I do think that that's what happens. It's like with anything you start to learn about it. You almost become almost like a toxic phobe. It's just like we become germaphobes when we have that microscope that we could see what it looks like, you know, so it starts to get in our minds and we're like, oh my God, I don't want that.   And there's this like high level of resistance. And the truth is we really can't resist all of it. We cannot go completely clean. So it is important to realize that always it's never going to be perfect. And that's okay. I mean, part of it is obviously trying to alleviate the body's load, but it also, another part of it is actually making the body adaptable, you know, so the body adapts because the body knows how to detoxify as well.   I mean, I know there's activated charcoal that people can take as well to help take out the toxins or bind to toxins in the body. So it's a real holistic balance for sure.   Sophia Gushee (29:58) I really think of it as yoga off the mat. And I just, I support conscious, just conscious choices and whatever you choose, you shouldn't judge yourself. I had a client who was trying to help her mom detox her home, just detox cleaning products. And the mom was so resistant. And finally, after a few years, the mom finally admitted,   Michelle (30:09) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (30:28) I just love my certain perfume and my red lipstick and I'm so afraid you're going to tell me it's so toxic I can't use it. And I said, tell your mom that she can hold on to what she loves and there will be plenty of other changes that she won't mind making. And that's really my philosophy. Hold on to what you love or what brings you great convenience. Let's work together on finding the changes you won't mind making.   Michelle (30:37) Yeah.   Yeah.   That's actually really important. I mean, I will say like that, you know, my daughter likes this one perfume and, and it's not a non -toxic perfume, but I feel like if I get so strict, it's going to cause the opposite effect. And I said, okay, it's not a big deal. Just put it on your clothes, not on your skin. You know, sometimes you just do it once in a while and it's not like every day. So it's like, I think that that's a great way to look at it. It's just like, it doesn't have to be.   all or nothing and a little bit it's not going to like be the end all be all like make such a big deal.   Sophia Gushee (31:36) I'm sorry. It was really meaningful to me when I spoke to the former dean of the School of Public Health at Brown University, Bess Marcus, who did a lot of research on behavioral change with smokers, cigarette smokers. And a lot of her research in the 60s and 70s, she ended up using in her visits.   to physicians to educate physicians on what scientists were understanding about the health risks from cigarette smoking. And after a while, a lot of when she would revisit the physicians, they often were really demoralized and they would say, I tell my patients that if they don't stop smoking cigarettes, their chances of lung cancer are gonna be much higher, but they won't quit. So what's the point?   There's no point. And she said, the research shows that a patient, a smoker needs to hear this message at least seven times before the smoker will consider changing. So you have to be among the voice of seven, which helped me so much because if you're trying to educate your children, for example,   Michelle (32:48) Mm.   Sophia Gushee (33:01) to know that your goal shouldn't be to get them to stop something right away and listen to you, but just to be among the voices of the messages that will give them the right information or the right goals, then at some point, maybe they'll listen to it, but you really can't control other people. You shouldn't try. It'll just ruin your relationship. And so all we can do is just try and be a voice out there without the expectation of,   Michelle (33:21) It's true. Yeah, 100%.   It's true.   Sophia Gushee (33:31) controlling behavior.   Michelle (33:33) Oh, 100%. I think that you teach and if people want to take it, they take it. If they can't, if they don't want to, you know, we're all given free will. I have a very big proponent of that because it's important to respect that in others. And ultimately it's their decision. Um, but educate, I, I'm really big on, I think that it's so important to educate people and let them know, because then, then you can make an informed decision. However, that decision wants to end up.   but you can make an informed decision because you have information to make that decision. And then if you choose to ignore certain things, that's your choice, but you at least you know before making that decision.   Sophia Gushee (34:14) Yeah.   Yeah, I just think people have a right to know if you're a health conscious person, then often this is an overlooked pillar of health that can be really empowering.   Michelle (34:29) of without a doubt. And then let's talk about actually EMFs, because you had mentioned that I've seen that on your list. So EMFs are definitely something that a lot of it's invisible. So I think that sometimes out of sight out of mind, we can't smell it, we can't really hear it. It's like invisible, but we know it's there and we read about it, but sometimes forget about it. And it's something that we use, especially like if you're going to a library, I mean, anywhere that   even a hotel, you know, with all the wifi, it's there in so many places. So talk about the role of EMF and how that can impact reproductive health.   Sophia Gushee (35:14) I'll start by trying to explain EMFs in a way that can maybe help listeners visualize it, because I think that has helped me. So I now think of EMFs as just radiation. It's just energy. I think of it as energy. And our cell phones, for example, will maybe use energy from a 3G wavelength or   maybe 4G also and 5G and Bluetooth, then cellular, 3G, 4G, 5G, Bluetooth, Wi -Fi, cellular, their energy wavelengths will differ, but also like the, there are other things about the wavelengths that will be different. So Bluetooth, for example, will be something like,   whereas Wi -Fi will maybe be more gentle. And if you think of sound as energy too, but that it's almost like a harsh wavelength, it's pecking at our membranes. So if you have Bluetooth earphones in your ear, the...   Michelle (36:31) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (36:42) that part of your skull is actually really vulnerable. So even if you're not using the earphones, it's open. So the earbuds are still trying to, they still emit energy towards each other through your skull. A wonderful scientist named Debra Davis, she's highly accomplished. She,   Michelle (36:49) Because it's open. It's open.   Sophia Gushee (37:11) She was integral in banning smoking on cigarette planes decades ago. She has been, God bless her, she's been pioneering science on how these electromagnetic fields from our technology are affecting our health and development and reproductive health outcomes. Side note, she won a Nobel Prize with   Michelle (37:18) God bless her.   Sophia Gushee (37:40) Vice President Al Gore on their work for climate change. So she's an amazing scientist, but she...   I just lost my train of thought.   Michelle (37:55) That happens to me all the time. We were talking about the earbuds and the yeah.   Sophia Gushee (37:59) the earbud. She has, uh, she's published a few wonderful books, but she just re -released a book called Disconnect, which explains the science on how radiation from things like our cell phones and laptops are threatening our health and wellbeing. So if listeners want to get a great overview on that, I highly recommend Disconnect. And I also have...   one podcast episode with Debra Davis on the Practical Non -Toxic Living podcast if they want to listen and her executive director is on another one. But she and another great scientist, David Carpenter, were part of a team that filed a lawsuit against the FCC for not considering   the scientific studies, the peer -reviewed scientific studies that have come out since the wireless standards were set in 1996. And the judge ruled in their favor. But the judge said to the FCC, you have these list of things you have to now respond to, but there's no deadline for the FCC to respond by. So progress isn't really going to go anywhere, but at least the judge acknowledged that   standards need to be updated and the FCC needs to consider what scientists have learned since 1996. But studies have shown that laptop radiation and cell phone radiation near like the male reproductive area damages sperm quality. So men should be really mindful of where they place the laptop and...   Michelle (39:44) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (39:51) If you're going to have a cell phone on your body, ideally you don't, but that's really hard to do nowadays. If it is on your body, the perfect solution is to turn off your phone. Most people can't do that. The next best thing is to disable cellular Wi -Fi and Bluetooth. And so I just work on having my family members, my children and my husband use airplane mode to disable those things.   Michelle (40:19) Mm -hmm. Yeah.   Sophia Gushee (40:21) And so when you're walking, just know you're taking, you're disconnecting, taking a little break. And then when you need to check your messages, then you can easily enable all that. So that's, that's how I approach EMFs. So male sperm quality, sperm quality is easier to measure than female reproductive health. So even though they're,   scientists don't know how radiation affects our ovaries or the DNA in our reproductive in the ovaries, that doesn't mean that it doesn't cause harm. It's just the studies for women are much more complex.   Michelle (41:10) Right, right. I mean, if it impacts men, you would imagine, I mean, and then a lot of people put their laptop on their bodies or they put like other devices on their bodies. I've, you know, people have the Apple watch, you know, all the basically the smartwatches and it's constantly on their body. And I, I look at it from a Chinese medicine perspective and how we have energetic meridians and we do have an energetic body around us.   and it's intelligent. So having anything interfere with that definitely impacts our bodies and our vitality. And, you know, so I definitely think about that. And let me ask you, what are your thoughts? Because some people say the 5G is like the most strong radiation. So I always have my kids opt in for LTE.   And I do myself on my phone because I'm like, okay, maybe it's a little less radiation. Maybe it's not as good quality, but like the radiation is a little lower. I mean, I don't even know anymore.   Sophia Gushee (42:17) They, again, all the like 3G, 4G, 5G, they're just different layers of energy. And so I think of the home as a sea of radiation. So the more you can take out or silence, the better for you, the less burden on your body. So it's hard. I mean, I live in New York City and I think what I aim to do with, I'm always using airplane mode.   Michelle (42:22) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Yeah.   Sophia Gushee (42:47) which annoys most people that they can't call me and reach me right away, but so be it. But my, you know, I have to work within like, what can I ask of my family that won't have them completely reject everything I ask. And so for me right now, I'm just trying to get them to use airplane mode when they don't need to be wirelessly connected. If you're able to,   Michelle (42:51) Mm -hmm. Yeah.   Yes.   Sophia Gushee (43:16) have your family, your loved ones do even more than that, then that's better. It's just less of a stressor on your body. And so I just want to make the point again that some of these wavelengths like Bluetooth can weaken your membrane. So for example, studies show that cell phone radiation can weaken the blood brain barrier.   which protects our brain from toxic compounds in the blood. So just keep in mind that idea that if you never give your body a break from a growing intensity of radiation in our environment, at home, school, work, even public areas, then your organs like your brain are more likely to...   be more vulnerable to toxic compounds in your blood and elsewhere. So that's why it's just important to be mindful and to be able to create recovery periods for your body. And so the bedroom is a great area to focus on. It's hard to control many things in life and sometimes even in our homes if we live with other people.   Michelle (44:29) Mm -hmm.   Sophia Gushee (44:39) But the bedroom is a really good focus because hopefully you're sleeping seven to eight hours. You won't miss being wirelessly disconnected. So just make that energy in your sleep area be as silent as possible so your body can get higher quality sleep and be more resilient to what we can't control.   Michelle (45:02) Yeah, one of the things that I love is earthing or getting a grounding mat because it does absorb excess like, you know, frequencies in our body just brings it down and it does it's been shown to help with inflammation. I mean, it does so much so much to help the body. I feel like it is one way we can kind of organize our energy again, like our body's energy.   a way that is, you know, it gives us something that we can do to help. And then I've also read about shungite. And I think that there was a study done on shungite because of its high carbon content that does tend to neutralize radiation.   Sophia Gushee (45:49) Yes, I'm actually wearing a shangite now.   Michelle (45:51) Oh, look at you and I have this look.   Sophia Gushee (45:57) Bye.   After talking to scientists about different EMF protection products and other experiences, I'm now at a place where I like to assume they don't work just because I don't want to have a false sense of security. Because some products, some EMF protection products, especially ones that you plug into an electrical outlet, sometimes they cause more   Michelle (46:21) Right.   Sophia Gushee (46:33) harm than good or they just create. So for example, you can, for example, I have a router which I can't move outside a daughter's bedroom. So her bedroom gets a lot of radiation and an EMF expert recommended paint that   to paint her walls, special paint that would block out the radiation. It took me years later and another EMF expert to realize that the cell phone towers beaming into her bedroom from outside her apartment that are on rooftops across the street.   bounce off the walls of her painted walls and create a chaotic energy that's even more stressful for my daughter's body. I don't really know what's true, what the big picture is, but it just made me nervous about. That's one example among others that made me feel like I don't really know how to use these things safely. And so I am.   Michelle (47:28) Mm.   Yeah.   Yeah.   Sophia Gushee (47:51) Like I think shungite probably does work, but how much shungite do we need? Like plants do detox the air, but for plants to be an effective air purifier, you probably have to live in a greenhouse. You need a lot of plants.   Michelle (47:55) Bye.   Right, right, right. This is true. I mean, yeah, we could definitely like, we can keep going and dive deep and, and, you know, enter the rabbit hole, go down the rabbit hole with so many of these things. So I definitely, I could see that for sure, but it is important to know.   Sophia Gushee (48:23) But natural ways of earthing, like I'm a big proponent of, which is just skin contact with earth. I really like on grass and soil, the sea is great, immersing yourself in sea water and the ocean, those are really excellent healing ways to ground.   Michelle (48:32) Yeah.   No doubt nature is incredible and it really knows how to balance us. I mean, because we are part of nature, it's designed that way. So it is pretty amazing. So, I mean, this is just such a great conversation. I could literally pick your brain for hours. And I love some of the things that we talked about, really good information. And for people who are interested and want to learn more, how can they find you? Where should they go?   on your website or, you know, navigate through this.   Sophia Gushee (49:19) My website is great. The newsletter is the best way to follow the podcast, the detox academy, 40 day home detox and new blog articles and so much more. So I also have detox workshops online. So Ruan living R U A N is a Nancy living .com has also and I can share this link with you. I have a free.   non -toxic cleaning guide, which is super helpful in explaining the safest way to clean your home.   Michelle (49:58) Awesome. Yeah, that would be great. So Sophia, thank you so much for coming on today. This is such an informative episode. I really appreciate everything that you shared today. So thank you so much.   Sophia Gushee (50:11) My pleasure.

Dr. Doni Wilson is a Naturopathic Doctor, certified professional midwife, certified nutrition specialist, and bestselling author of Master Your Stress, Reset Your Health. For more than 22 years, she has helped thousands of patients overcome health challenges and achieve wellness by using specific strategies that address the whole body and ultimately resolve the underlying causes of distress. Dr. Doni suffered from migraines for over 20 years, and in the process of solving them, she developed her Stress Recovery Protocol. Dr. Doni brings awareness to the impact of stress on our health and how it is possible to recover from burnout and become resilient to stress in the media and at public and professional events. You can find her blog, podcast, called How Humans Heal, and her Self C.A.R.E.™ program at DoctorDoni.com

Instagram: @doctordoniwilson

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Makayla and Cassie are registered dietician nutritionists and are the founders of Mama’s Maternal Health, an online organization created to help women with Type 1 Diabetes and Autoimmune diagnoses get and stay pregnant.

 

Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter)

@mamas_maternal_health

mamasmaternalhealth@gmail.com

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Stesha is passionate about womb healing, energetics and feminine embodiment for women who desire to conceive their babies with unwavering belief & ease without the overthinking, overdoing, doubt & fear.

After a heartbreaking fertility journey and no where to turn, Stesha was brought to the inner work of healing her childhood & generational trauma of unworthiness, not-enoughness, and fear of being seen and taking up space. She was brought even deeper into the awakening of her womb and feminine power. Looking back she knows it all happened for a reason and now guides women struggling to conceive through this incredibly powerful portal to become the mothers they are meant to be.

With 7 years background in root cause medicine, mind-body practice, energy psychology, quantum healing, function nutrition and testing and specialized study in women's fertility along with being a phd candidate in Natural Medicine writing her thesis in energetic womb healing for infertility.

Stesha has the experience and knowledge to guide you through a spiraling journey back home to your power, your fertility, and to the abundant life you desire from a feminine place of ease and flow.

 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stesha.reukauf/
Free Embodiment Practice: https://courses.steshareukauf.com/embodied-belief
Own Your Fertility Podcast: https://courses.steshareukauf.com/own-your-fertility-podcast

 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

If you’ve been struggling to conceive, it is important to run baseline tests with your fertility doctor. Unfortunately, you may have to sometimes advocate for yourself. I wanted to share in this episode common tests that many RE’s run for their patients so that you have an idea of what should be your baseline when you are going in to get answers about your fertility. Join me in today’s episode as I discuss common tests to ask for so you can feel more empowered on your own fertility journey!

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

In this episode I will go over what the luteal phase is, how to track its length, and what options might help lengthen it. Always be sure to speak to a healthcare provider before taking any supplements.

 

Here’s a link to the study about Vitamin C affecting progesterone levels: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4700980/

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Katie started out as a nutritionist and also studied functional medicine, specializing in female health & nutrition. In 2016, she founded Hello Balance, a health and wellness company that helps millennial women optimize their health through food. In 2021, the company expanded into fertility and pregnancy nutrition.

 

Katie’s Prenatal program has been recommended by celebrity physician Dr. Mark Hyman, Bossbabe, and Girlboss.

 

Katie is also an expert in managing blood sugar spikes and she has written an actionable nutritional guide and cookbook, The Hello Balance Guide & Cookbook, which has 95+ blood sugar balancing recipes, 5 key fat burning tips, meal building formulas, tips to naturally balance your hormones, intermittent fasting tips and much more, to help women live their best healthy life.

 

Her health coaching approach is based on the latest science and research and is NOT about restriction, diets, or rigid lifestyles but about eating more of the right foods (which don't have to be boring!) to heal and balance the body from the inside out.

 

https://www.hellobalance.co/ 

https://courses.hellobalance.co/

https://www.instagram.com/hellobabynutrition

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Jennifer Robertson is a fertility coach and has helped women all over the world transform their mindset and take back control of their life in the midst of infertility.

She is also author of The Injustice of Infertility, a deeply inspiring and raw account of her own seven-year fertility journey.

Throughout her own fertility journey, Jen discovered that her old ways of pushing and working hard weren’t serving her. She is now using the lessons learned along the way to develop programs and support women throughout their journey to motherhood - from the moment they start trying to conceive, until they hold their baby in their arms.

You can follow Jennifer on Instagram @msjenniferrobertson or @yourpregnancyhaven

Or via her website www.jenniferrobertson.co or www.yourpregnancyhaven.co

 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Are you relying only on OPK’s to figure out your optimal fertile window? In this episode I will share why OPK’s are not reliable in confirming ovulation, and what you should consider doing instead.

 

Charting Apps: Kindara, Femm, Glow

 

Digital BBT Thermometer

 

Get $5 off of Proov here.

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

What is the one vitamin you should check blood levels for if you’re trying to conceive?  This vitamin is crucial for conception and has been mentioned in many studies to be linked to unexplained infertility as well as recurrent miscarriages.  

 

Studies mentioned in this episode:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6210343/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4971338/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8425239/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6683323/

 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

As you may already know, egg (and sperm) quality is at the core of ensuring a healthy viable pregnancy.  It also takes time to improve, but that time and effort is not only necessary, it’s vital!  In this episode I will share five ways you can support your egg quality and overall fertility health. 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

 

Alexandria DeVito, MS, CNS, is a functional nutritionist who specializes in fertility and preconception health. She is the author of 9 Months Is Not Enough: The Ultimate Pre-pregnancy Checklist to Create a Baby-Ready Body and Build Generational Health. She is also the founder and CEO of Poplin, the first pre-pregnancy wellness company. Prior to founding Poplin, Alexandria worked in management consulting at McKinsey & Company. She holds an MBA from Harvard Business School. She also has a master’s degree in nutrition; extensive training as a doula, yoga teacher, and personal trainer; and is an Institute for Functional Medicine Certified Practitioner, all of which inform her approach to pre-pregnancy wellness.   https://getpoplin.com
https://www.instagram.com/getpoplin/
https://www.facebook.com/getpoplin
  Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free.   For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com   The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/   Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility   Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/   Summary of this episode:   Alexandria DeVito shares her journey from working in the corporate world to becoming a fertility health advocate. She obtained an MBA from Harvard and a master's degree in nutrition while working in healthcare. She then trained in functional medicine and started seeing clients as a nutritionist. Many of her clients were struggling to conceive, which led her to focus on fertility health. The conversation explores the challenges of fertility struggles and the lack of preconception health guidelines in clinical practice. It highlights the emotional, physical, and financial toll of fertility struggles and the need for better preparation and support. The conversation discusses the importance of preconception care and the impact it can have on the health of both parents and future generations. It highlights the challenges faced by females in accessing comprehensive medical care, which often focuses on contraception rather than preconception care. The conversation emphasizes that there is no such thing as starting preconception care too early or too late. Our bodies were designed to conceive, but our modern environments create a mismatch. Factors such as nutrition, supplements, and stress can affect fertility.      Transcript:   Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Alexandria.   Alexandria DeVito (00:03) Thank you so much for having me.   Michelle (00:05) So we just had a really great pre-talk and we definitely are on the same page on so many things. And what I love about you is that you are here really to empower couples on the fertility journey. I got to look at your book. I was very excited because I feel like I really resonate with the   And I just love the fact that you really approach it from such an empowering perspective. Absolutely love that. But for the listeners, I would love for you to share your background, how you got into the work that you do.   Alexandria DeVito (00:38) Hmm, you got it.   Yes, I mean, I think there's a lot of alignment philosophically about, you know, just how much more agency we have over our reproductive health and all the different ways that we can prepare to conceive, which I'm sure we will talk all about. So I came into the world of fertility actually, initially through the corporate world. So I was doing corporate consulting and was working in healthcare, largely with pharmaceutical companies and medical device companies. So I kind of learned the healthcare landscape from that lens.   enjoyed working in healthcare. I thought it was just such an incredibly impactful field. And at some point I decided that I wanted to switch from what I felt was operating in a more reactive model of healthcare to a more proactive one. And so that was the impetus for me to go back to school. I went back and got my MBA from Harvard and then I also did a part-time Masters in nutrition on the side.   while I was doing my MBA. And that was my way of adding more tools into my toolkit that were more holistic in nature. And then I finished both of my master's degrees, and I did training and functional medicine, and started seeing clients one-on-one as a nutritionist. And basically what ended up happening was I had a lot of clients that were struggling to conceive, and they had been on fairly long journeys, sometimes a year, two years, three years, and they were being   ping-ponged between different providers and they still weren't getting the answers that they so deeply desired and they were not getting pregnant. And it really struck me, why was this happening? And so you know initially they were saying like do you have any other suggestions? Can you tell me what I should be doing? And this was also happening with friends. Friends of mine were also struggling coming to me not in a professional capacity but in a personal capacity asking for my advice and guidance.   And initially I was really perplexed, right? This seems like an important problem. This seems like a solvable problem. What the heck is going on here? And so inspired by my functional medicine training, I started running these really broad panels of tests that.   essentially were screening mechanisms. I looked at the clinical literature and saw all the reasons that could potentially interfere with someone's ability to get pregnant. And once I started running these broad screening tests, a whole bunch of things started flagging that my clients, other providers, had never even tested in the first place.   And that was what really inspired me to say, wait a minute, like, why are we waiting until someone is several years into a fertility struggle? It is emotionally, physically, financially draining in most cases. Why are we waiting to find out these things that we could have found out before they even started their journey? And so that really inspired my exploration of preconception health, which is essentially the preparation period before and between pregnancy is, which we can talk more about.   And I realized that there have been preconception guidelines over 40 years at this point, but they're not being implemented in clinical practice. And then certainly, if we think about ancient practices, which this is your specialty, these have been around for thousands and thousands of years. But we're not implementing them.   And so I just felt that there was an opportunity to rewrite the dialogue and to really give people so many more tools to prepare to get pregnant like they prepare for any other major milestone, a wedding, a career, right? Even buying a house today has more infrastructure and support. And so that's really been my journey and the impetus and really spreading the word around this concept of preconception health and all the things that you can do on both a macro level and a micro level.   to optimize it and build generational health.   Michelle (04:25) I mean, I love this topic and I just, you know, it pains me that it's not mainstream, that this is just not information that people get. And I feel like they do get it after digging and finding. it would be so nice if people just knew this information because it's so important. And so let's go to that topic of really preparing the body.   Alexandria DeVito (04:33) Mm-hmm.   Michelle (04:52) because I think that is just something that most people don't even consider. Nobody really is told that. It's not something that anybody really has access to. I mean, the only access that you really have is like high school health education, where they tell you not to conceive and that anybody blinks and they get pregnant. And so just about your body and how it really works. And then,   Alexandria DeVito (05:07) Hahaha   See you soon.   Michelle (05:20) it's that like the red pill that we swallow and realize like what's really happening and what's the reality and it's so different than what we've been told. So let's talk about preconception care like why is it important and how long do people really need to consider preparing themselves before conception?   Alexandria DeVito (05:42) You had so many important points in what you just said that I, you know, I think it's actually really helpful. I want to elaborate on them and, you know, and amplify what you said. First, right, I think it's true. We don't get updated sexual education information in most cases, right? The last time most people had any sort of sexual education, it may have been in middle school or in high school, where presumably the goal is to prevent teen pregnancies. So the message that we are giving people...   in that context is very different from the message that we might want to give to someone who's in their 20s, 30s, 40s, who's actively trying to conceive, right? But there aren't great mechanisms to update that information, right? And so I think that's one of the first challenges. I think the second challenge is that we are very bifurcated in our medical care for females, where we're either focused on contraception, so preventing pregnancy, or pregnancy.   right, managing a pregnancy that is already in process. But this intervening period, this preconception period, when once we are stopping contraception and pursuing pregnancy, is almost been forgotten about. And I think it deserves its own conversation. And that's why I'm so happy to be here today talking about it, is I didn't even know preconception was a thing before I started researching it. And proper preconception care has   big benefits. Number one is it makes it easier to get pregnant, and then number two, it increases the likelihood of having a healthy pregnancy and a baby. And it's certainly been known, been shown to reduce the complications of any sort of birth complications, pregnancy complications, and then also fertility challenges. And so this is relevant, whether it's your first pregnancy or your fifth pregnancy.   it's relevant whether you're 23 or 43, right? And sometimes it can be even more relevant for subsequent pregnancies because a female's body can be so depleted of nutrients in a previous pregnancy or hormones may be dysregulated. I'm sure this is something that you see a lot of the time as well, right? And so what you do in the preconception window is incredibly important because it's been shown to affect the lifelong trajectory of the health for your child through the epigenetic markers in egg.   and sperm. So it's just such a profoundly impactful time period where you're not only affecting your health and your reproductive partner's health, but that of your future child and even your child's children and beyond. It's wild.   Michelle (08:18) Right. I know, isn't that crazy? The thought of that. Yeah. It's pretty wild. So how long would you say, generally speaking, how long do you think people should really consider pre-conception care, like before even conceiving?   Alexandria DeVito (08:34) Yes. So what I generally say is, look, there's no such thing as too early. So if you're an overachiever and you want to start this early and you're thinking about pregnancy even in a couple of years, no such thing as too early. There's also no such thing as too late. Even if you've already struggled to conceive and or are about to pursue an assisted reproductive cycle, you can still be making these changes. Your body is incredibly, incredibly resilient. That being said, generally speaking,   what I recommend is usually about a year, right? So kind of what you're doing in the three, six, 12 months prior to conceiving is the timeframe that your body is gonna be most susceptible, either positively or negatively, to what's going on in and around your life cycle. And that is true on the female reproductive side, where the last stage of egg maturation is around three to four months and kind of their susceptibility to what you're eating.   environmental toxins and you're stress-loaded in that period of time, and sometimes we need multiple of those cycles. And the same thing for male sperm development. That's around three months, so again we may need multiple cycles depending on our starting point. But it actually takes about a year, the current literature is saying, for an egg to kind of move from its you know essentially sleeping beauty like state all the way through to ovulation. So that's just the time periods when we're thinking biologically what we want to keep in mind.   Michelle (09:58) And so what are the things that you would suggest or what are some of the things that you would say people should look at? I mean, I know there's so and I know nutrition's a huge part in certain supplements, but I'd love to get your, your thoughts on that.   Alexandria DeVito (10:12) Absolutely. Yeah, so here's what I would generally say. Our bodies were designed to conceive, but our modern environments were not. Right? And so there's a mismatch now between our genes and our environment.   and our environment today is communicating to our bodies that we are in a reso unsafe environment on a pretty regular basis. And when we are in a reso unsafe environment, our body down-regulates reproductive function because it says, wait a minute, probably not the best environment into which to bring a child, so let's put it on pause right now. And so when I think about what are the factors that are driving   as auspicious to conceiving. There's the macro level and then you know kind of what's going on for most of us, and then there's the micro level. So I'll split it into those two. On the macro level, you certainly alluded to several of these, right? We're eating a lot of food and we're getting not very much nutrition, right? So we're eating more food-like substances, less food, less nutrient density of food, less balanced.   Michelle (11:13) Mm-hmm.   Alexandria DeVito (11:20) diets, more blood sugar imbalanced diets, right? So these sorts of things are not conducive to fertility, and that's become the norm, not lately. A second big one is environmental chemicals that are coming at us through our food, our water, our air, our personal care products, our home care products, and I think particularly for females who are using, tend to use more personal care products than our male counterparts. You know, if   One of your products has these endocrine disrupting chemicals in them, probably not that big of a deal, but when it's kind of like our shampoos and our conditioners and our makeup and you know our lipstick and our soaps and right, you know, it starts to add up and our bodies were just not designed to deal with this level of toxic load. Our bodies can naturally detoxify, but when it's all day every day, it becomes much, much harder for our body to excrete these compounds that we're not meant to be dealing with. So environmental toxins are another one.   Stress levels, I think are another important one. We are more stressed and stretched than ever before. The data suggests this. We are sleeping less soundly and less cumulatively. And what happens there is our sex hormones and our stress hormones are in the same biochemical pathway. And our bodies will always prioritize survival over procreation. So kind of what, to what I was saying earlier, if your body thinks, oh, this is, we're in war basically, or we're in an unsafe environment,   it's going to down-regulate reproductive function and switch from making your sex hormones to making your stress hormones because it thinks it's adaptive, it thinks it's protecting you. And what happens then is you don't have the raw materials, A, to get a regular menstrual cycle and ovulate, but then B, to carry a baby, right? So that's a big one that I see. And then the last kind of big one that I'll touch on is just movement. We've...   significantly increase the sedentary-ness of our jobs even, and we you know we don't have to walk more than five feet if we don't want to right there's planes, trains, automobiles, right even scooters can kind of get us from point to point, and so when we think about movement the important thing about movement is that when we are moving we are getting you know this is very much in your realm right we don't have stagnation right so   whenever we have good blood flow, that means we're moving oxygen, we're moving nutrients throughout our body. When we're sitting for long periods of time, we're essentially compressing our reproductive organs and creating stagnation, which is not great for kind of getting the things to go where they need to go. So those are the big ones on the macro level that I see, and I'll just briefly touch on the micro, which is that part of what was the impetus for me building the pre-pregnancy testing company that I now run, Poplin, is that   know, it was inspired by what I saw working as a nutritionist, that there's all these things that we can test in advance to understand what's going on for you uniquely. Right now in fertility we treat in many cases all 25 year olds as equal, all 35 year olds as equal, and that's cellularly just not true. So if we can understand what's going on in your unique body, then we can have a much better intervention plan rather than kind of doing all the things you can do, the specific things that are relevant to you and your physiology.   Michelle (14:24) Right. Yeah.   Oh my God. Yeah, for sure. And a lot of people are not really getting the tests, even if they are available mainstream. I'm always like surprised when people get there just the TSH and very high and nobody looks to see is it antibodies that's causing that. Like, there's no antibody testing. And I've even had patients go to their doctors and ask for it. And they're like, I don't know why you need it.   Alexandria DeVito (14:57) Mm-hmm.   Michelle (15:05) And I'm like, really? Like just, it boggles my mind. So it's again, a shame that people have to really search it and seek it, but if you are able to, I definitely highly suggest that. I think it's a game changer to be able to really see what's going on and to do the functional testing. Cause functional testing is a lot more detailed than what we'll see in just like a doctor's office or So I think it's huge.   Alexandria DeVito (15:32) I agree and I'm obviously hugely biased here so you know everyone has to take you know my opinion with a grain of salt but I've just seen you know because we're testing such a wide array of markers like I've never seen a test come back without something that you know someone could be working on and I've never had someone say you know I wish I didn't do that testing right   Michelle (15:50) Yeah.   Alexandria DeVito (15:50) it's really empowering. I think sometimes we can get scared and say, well, what if we find something out? And, you know, I don't want to know. But the things about the testing that we do, at least, is that everything on the test, except for blood type, is modifiable, which means you can do something about it. It's not some test result where you then are just, you know, sitting there, twiddling your thumbs, wondering, you know, what to do. You can modify it through diet, lifestyle, supplementation.   Michelle (16:05) Right.   Alexandria DeVito (16:19) Alternative therapies like the work that you do, right? Enhancing blood flow, managing stress levels, all of these things can really improve these biomarkers and you can see it in black and white, right? You can take the test, you can make lifestyle interventions and then you can take it again and you can watch your progress.   Michelle (16:19) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Not only that.   I feel like people feel a certain way or they feel sluggish and they think it's them or something's wrong with them. And when people get that confirmation, and this is kind of like, I mean, it's obviously related because everything's related to fertility. Because you were saying what you said was so true. And I say the same thing. It's your body's going to want to survive. And if it doesn't have the means, regardless of the fact that it's going to also influence reproductive health, but it also influences your quality of life.   Alexandria DeVito (16:44) Hmm   Michelle (17:06) people actually see that and they realize, oh my God, this is what explains it. Because I think there's nothing more frustrating than getting that unexplained diagnosis. And when you actually see beneath the surface what's really happening and it gives you an explanation, I feel like that by itself is so empowering.   Alexandria DeVito (17:14) Very funny.   Michelle (17:26) And I agree a lot of times with functional medicine, yes, we can change diet, we can address what's going on. We can see the inflammation. And then let's talk about gut health, because I know that that's like a big thing. A lot of people hear about gut health. And at first, I think when people start the fertility journey, they think it's just, let's focus just on fertility. But then you don't realize, like, there are so many different factors that come into play.   Alexandria DeVito (17:36) Yeah.   Michelle (17:51) And there are different systems and all the systems come together to create the whole of you. And gut health is incredibly important, even in Chinese medicine, you know, the clean stomach or the center, really the center that makes the blood, supports your body's processes and energy. So I wanted to get your perspective on gut health and also to explain it to people who are first hearing about it. Like why does gut health   matter so much when it comes to fertility health.   Alexandria DeVito (18:22) And I want to hear more from your perspective too, because I think this is where it's so beautiful to hear that the different modalities and how they're looking at things differently. And in a lot of ways, there's just this underlying similarity between the philosophies too. So I think, you know, what you said is spot on, right? Fertility is an extension of our overall health.   A lot of times we treat fertility as this below the waist conversation, or we treat it as solely a function of your hormones. And it is those things. It does involve your reproductive organs, and it does involve your hormones. But if we're just looking at those things, we're just kind of like looking through, you know, at-   20-30% of the equation, we're missing all of the other stuff going on in your body. And that's why when we look at testing, we're looking at your blood status, your hormone status, your metabolic status, your nutrient status, your immune status, all of these things affect your fertility. And you're talking about gut health, incredibly important.   thing. When we think about gut health, just to give a few examples with my nutritionist hat on, just because you're eating, let's say, a quote unquote healthy diet does not mean you are digesting and assimilating those nutrients. So if we're eating in a stressed state, if we're eating while we're standing up, if we are judging the food that we are eating, all of these things actually decrease the amount of nutrition that we can extract from that meal. So that's just   Michelle (19:30) Right.   Alexandria DeVito (19:46) first really important principle.   The second one is if you have happened to have been on hormonal birth control for any period of time, the literature is fairly clear that hormonal birth control can disrupt our microbiome. And so if we're not taking compensatory action to address that, then you're likely to be dealing with a disrupted microbiome. And then again, right, that may feed certain cravings. It may mean you're not, again, extracting nutrients as effectively from the foods that   eating. It may mean that you're dealing with symptomology like bloating and gas and discomfort after meals that are certainly...   not very pleasant right? And so you have kind of all of these different components when we think about gut health and if you just think about it from like a nutrient perspective, our gut is the way that our body helps us digest and assimilate. So if we're eating all these foods and we're not actually getting the benefit of the foods that we're eating, we're more likely to be in a nutrient deficient state. And nutrient deficiencies can delay time to pregnancy and they can also affect   And so what we're kind of consuming in the three to four months prior to conceiving is what you actually have to offer to that baby in that first trimester. So ensuring that your nutrient stores are replete before that period of time is incredibly important.   Michelle (21:12) Oh yeah, absolutely. Chinese medicine, It actually is what extracts into blood and blood is really important for women, uterine lining, but it also feeds the ovaries. So yeah, and it's amazing how now we're starting to find out a lot of things with research. And I love that. And it's also interesting because people do go on the birth   not only impacts the gut microbiome, but also impacts your nutrients in your body, depletes certain nutrients. So for people who have been on the birth control pill for many years, I think that that's one of the things in mainstream they'll say, oh, you could be on the birth control pill for many years. And then the second you stop, you could just go ahead and get pregnant. So what   has been your experience for people who have been on birth control pill and some people for over 10 years. And what are some of the things that you would look at and want to address to regulate and prepare people for conception? Yeah.   Alexandria DeVito (22:16) Such a great question. So I mean, I think there's the talking about birth control can be such a.   an important and also sensitive topic because I think it's, you know, I have such reverence for the freedoms that it has afforded myself for many years and also many, many women to pursue their lives as they deem fit, pursue their careers. And at the same time, I think we now have a generation of women who have been on hormonal birth control, as you said, from very early reproductive years, and we now have more information about the side effects.   you know, I'm a big believer in this concept of informed consent, which means you get to decide what is best for you, and the only way you can decide what is best for you is if you're given all of the information to evaluate the pros and cons of this. And for, you know, many women, even understanding some of the things that we're about to talk about, they still may make the same decision, but that is not the point of informed consent. The point of informed consent is that you get to know all of this information and then decide what is best for you. And so what I think   about hormonal birth control. Certainly what was not communicated to me is that, as you said, there are very well established nutrient depletions. And we've known this, you know, for almost 50 years now, by the way. So like the nutrient depletion side of this has been very clear. So nutrient depletions in many B vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin E, and then also in certain of the minerals, so like magnesium, selenium, and zinc.   And so what I would say there is you have a couple options, but number one is supplementing alongside hormonal birth control if you're still on hormonal birth control and are thinking about getting pregnant, not imminently, but in the future. And also if you go off of birth control, making sure that you're repleting those nutrients, because those are nutrients that are incredibly important for fertility and pregnancy.   Michelle (23:58) Right.   Alexandria DeVito (24:11) So I would say that as one piece, right? Certainly around the microbiome, we talked about that. And so giving your gut additional support might be helpful, right? Eating.   probiotic foods, eating prebiotic foods, sometimes adding additional supplementation may be necessary. And you can understand if you're experiencing any sort of digestive upset, that may suggest that there's something going on with your gut. So a lot of yeast infections can sometimes indicate, okay, there's an imbalance in what's going on in your gut.   Michelle (24:41) Mm-hmm.   Alexandria DeVito (24:45) If you're having immune challenges, a lot of times that can actually be linked to what's going on in your gut. Issues with digestion or motility, a lot of people don't even realize that the daily bowel movements are normal, and so if you're not having daily bowel movements, that actually means you're constipated, and so many people are walking around constipated and not even realizing it. So all of these things can be manifestations of, you know, A, our lifestyle, and then also can be a function of long-term   hormonal birth control use. So just understanding that. And what I generally say is that coming off of hormonal birth control, if you've been on it for many years, is an active rather than a passive process. So if you are just aware of some of these side effects of being on hormonal birth control, you can be a much more empowered user to take compensatory actions to address them.   Michelle (25:36) That's such a good point because I think in many cases people don't really feel like they have an option, but they need to still learn about what they can do in order to empower themselves. It's definitely such a good point to bring up. I was going to ask you just kind of a side note, what are your thoughts? Because I'm reading a lot about it as of late, systemic enzymes, enzymes are really, really important, but I'm reading a lot about how   Alexandria DeVito (26:04) Hmm.   Michelle (26:06) amazing it is for the body, for inflammation.   Alexandria DeVito (26:11) bit about them too. I haven't done the requisite deep dive that I would need to give a really thorough opinion here. It does seem to be showing some promise and you know I think there are some potentially interesting applications out there, but you'll have to stay tuned on that one because I need to research them a little bit more before I get into thinking about kind of what are the best suggestions for folks and kind of what are the specific instances that I think they can be.   Michelle (26:27) Yeah.   Alexandria DeVito (26:37) used in? What do you think is the most intriguing application so far?   Michelle (26:41) It's incredible. So for example, wobe enzyme, which as of late, it's been out of stock for so many, but there are a lot of different places that do offer systemic enzymes. And basically what they do is they really break apart fibrin and you know, even plaque in our circulation system and our veins and arteries. And   it could really help lower inflammation. There's been a lot of research on specifically whoope enzyme and they've even researched it for recurrent miscarriages which I find really interesting. it can also help in certain cases of autoimmune conditions has been shown to help with Hashimoto's. There's so many things that I'm reading about it and I'm really fascinated. So I'm starting to dig in a little bit more.   and finding it to be a really amazing thing. And I think what happens is as we get older, we decrease the amount of enzymes our bodies have and enzymes are so brilliant, your body's so brilliant. It knows what to basically clean out and it will never affect your tissues. So it's really fascinating stuff.   Alexandria DeVito (27:50) It is. The autoimmune conditions are the ones that I've seen some applications for. And it is really interesting to think about because certainly we're seeing autoimmune conditions on the rise and pretty precipitously. And autoimmune conditions are disproportionately present in the female population. So it's something that's important to be aware of. I think it's 80% of autoimmune diagnoses are in females. And on average, it takes about   immune diagnosis. So it's just, it's wild. It's wild to think about that. And a lot of times, autoimmune conditions can have non-specific symptoms, which is why sometimes it can be hard to address. We do autoimmune screening, testing it at Poplin, and one of the reasons that we do it is because there's been such a precipitous rise in autoimmune conditions, and we're seeing a lot of people flagging for indications of autoimmune conditions. And it's not a diagnosis. You have   Michelle (28:21) Isn't that crazy? Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Alexandria DeVito (28:50) diagnostic testing to get an autoimmune diagnosis, but it's a first step to say, okay, might there be some autoimmune processes going on? And a lot of times that will initiate people into conversations around family history that they, you know, weren't aware of but that they then become aware of around autoimmune conditions. And, you know, there are certainly plenty of things once you know that you're dealing with it that you can start to do to manage it in collaboration with your doctor.   Michelle (28:51) Mm-hmm.   Alexandria DeVito (29:16) So I think that's an area that's certainly right for a lot more research. And I'm excited to see that there are potential other alternative therapies as well.   Michelle (29:23) Yeah, it's pretty fascinating and really looping back to the gut health, there's such a connection with gut health and autoimmune conditions. And right now we know that so many of the ingredients that we find in processed foods impact our gut health. I mean, some of the medications we take. So it's kind of like you were saying earlier, even just environmental.   Alexandria DeVito (29:28) Yes.   Michelle (29:45) It impacts our gut. it's not something that we can avoid, which makes sense to why so many people are experiencing that. You also have to be proactive in, like you said, like the environment. We're not living in a very fertile friendly environment. So you have to be proactive in looking into it and researching it and then figuring out what's going on with your specific body and then what you can do about it.   Alexandria DeVito (30:10) Absolutely, I think it's true. You know, I wish it weren't the case. I wish we had, you know, better regulations in this in this area. And I wish that we could play in a safer sandbox, I guess, is the is the way I would say it, you know, but you know, unfortunately, until regulations catch up, or, you know, until we are in a place where these, these chemicals aren't around us in such a profound way, we have to take a lot more personal responsibility. And so, you know,   Michelle (30:22) Yeah.   Alexandria DeVito (30:38) it can sometimes feel overwhelming because there's a lot to learn around, you know, trying to understand, okay, well, what are the things that I want to be keeping in and around me? What are the things that I don't want to be keeping in and around me? And I just, you know, generally encourage people to be gentle with themselves as they maybe go kind of room by room, starting to look at the different things that are coming in, identifying potentially major sources or things that you're using frequently to start to minimize all these assaults that we have on our system, right? Because our body   as I was saying earlier, and it was designed to regenerate and heal. And so it's really our job to figure out kind of what are the fertility blockers in our environment, right? And to remove those, because once you remove those, the body heals itself, right? It's miraculous. And so it's, you know, systematically finding, okay, where are these things in and around my environment that are not so consistent with my goals right now?   Michelle (31:21) Mm-hmm. It does.   It's so funny. I feel like we're like mentally related because a lot of things that you're saying are things that I felt for forever. I mean, I really like relate and I say it over and over again, because it is really true. It's just that hope that knowing that your body's incredible. It's so intelligent. It's beyond intelligent. And it's just a matter of really finding things and anything's possible. Truly, if you put your mind to it.   And for just for people to hear about, I would love, and I would love to know also, what does poplin offer? Like what are some of the things that people can get tested?   Alexandria DeVito (32:13) Mmm.   So Poplin's designed a pre-pregnancy test for females and for males, and the idea is that we look at a vast array of biomarkers that are like 70 plus. So the idea is essentially that we're looking across five different categories of health. So I mentioned them earlier, blood status, your hormone status, your immune status, metabolic status, and nutrient status. And within each of those categories, I'll just talk briefly about some of the most common things that we see, but the idea is to identify things that could be red flags or yellow flags,   with your ability to get pregnant or sustain a healthy pregnancy and have a healthy baby. So in blood status, this is where we're looking at the health of your blood cells, red blood cells, white blood cells. And so a lot of times there, we'll also look at iron storage, so your ferritin levels. And in your world, I'm guessing you see this manifested in a slightly different way, but we see a ton of iron deficiency. And a lot of times people are just coming in and   Michelle (33:09) Mm-hmm.   Alexandria DeVito (33:14) requisite iron is going to be really hard to, you know, to get pregnant and to sustain a pregnancy. It's a really important nutrient. So that's one that we see really commonly when we think about hormone status. That's the category that most people think about when they think about fertility. We're looking at a lot of different hormones there. As you, as you mentioned earlier, we look at TSH. We also look at seven other.   thyroid function markers, right? So we are looking at thyroid antibodies, but then we're also wanting to look at what else is going on with your conversion of thyroid hormone, and sometimes your TSH is not as sensitive of a marker as some of the others, and so it will change later in the disease process, and so using markers that are a bit more sensitive to catch things earlier is important.   Michelle (33:37) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Alexandria DeVito (33:59) When I think about metabolic function, we look at blood sugar in that category. We also look at cholesterol. So a lot of times blood sugar function can interfere with regular ovulation. So we wanna understand what might be going on there that could interrupt.   ovulation or even egg quality. I know this is something that you've covered before, right? Our blood sugar is intimately related to certainly our hormone function, but also egg quality and sperm quality. And then nutrients we've talked a lot about, but I'm still consistently seeing low vitamin D, low omega-3s. So these are things that are fairly easily addressable if you know that they're present. And so those are ones that we are seeing commonly. And our, you know,   Michelle (34:33) Mm-hmm.   Alexandria DeVito (34:44) choose to address that, in some cases through diet and in some cases through additional supplementation.   Michelle (34:51) And are people able to just go on and do it for themselves or do they need a provider to access the tests?   Alexandria DeVito (34:58) people can access it directly themselves. That's exactly what we're designed for. I think what I realized when I was working as a nutritionist and I was trying to get some of these tests like have other providers run the testing was that a lot of providers wouldn't run the testing. They wouldn't run as comprehensive of a panel as I thought was necessary. And it's really not their fault. It's because in most cases, insurance is driving care. Care is not driving what is reimbursed through insurance. And so providers are stuck even if they wanted to run it,   they don't have the codes to be able to do it. So it is, you know, offered out of pocket. You can use HSA or FSA dollars for it. But the idea is that you know exactly what you're getting, you know exactly what you're paying, and then you can have this information. And most of the time, even though most doctors will not necessarily run the tests up front, once you get the results, you can bring those tests to your doctor and they...   will engage with you and can help you address what might be going on, whether or not that's chronic disease management, medication, or further conversations about the patterns that are being seen. And with the purchase of your test, you also get a call with one of our pre-pregnancy educators, so you can talk about next steps as well to make sure that you're equipped for what would be most helpful.   Michelle (36:14) Okay, so that you'll have somebody to explain to you really what the test means.   Alexandria DeVito (36:19) Yes, and it's also explained in our app as well. So for each item, it says kind of what is this and what is the implication on fertility as well. So the idea is to just give you some context for what you're looking at, and then you could also speak with someone to ask additional questions about if there's anything that's still confusing.   Michelle (36:41) Awesome. I mean, I think that's great. I think it's great for people to be able to do it for themselves if they don't, if they're not working with somebody and, have that accessible for so many people because going through this could be so daunting and then just not really understanding. And then just getting, you know, doors closed, like, no, you can't continue looking into this, or it's just unexplained. So like, what else is going on?   Alexandria DeVito (37:06) That's so well said. I mean, I think I'm consistently surprised at how dismissive sometimes people can be about getting information about your own body. And I really do believe, like, don't let any, if you desire information about your body, don't let anyone tell you that you don't have a right to that. I think that is, you know, just not true.   And so everyone has a different relationship with data. For some people, they feel it is empowering. Most people, I find, feel it is empowering to understand what is going on for yourself. And if that's you, if you feel like you want to understand, okay, what is my baseline? What is my pre-pregnancy wellness? What am I working with? Then I'd invite you to look into that because I think it's so much more impactful to have that information and then have paths to follow than be dealing with this kind of black box, right?   Michelle (37:46) Mm-hmm.   Alexandria DeVito (37:59) to be a black box, though we often treat it as such. There's so many indicators that our body is giving us through our menstrual cycles, through our symptoms, and then through, you know, physiologic testing like blood testing and urine testing. There's so much information that our body is giving us about what's going on that we can use to understand earlier indicators of fertility than just getting pregnant.   Michelle (38:21) Absolutely. So for people who want to find out more about you, and do you work with people one on one still what do you offer?   Alexandria DeVito (38:32) Yeah, absolutely. So if people are interested in the book, that's...   at 9mon the number nine, and that has all the information about kind of how to prepare to get pregnant and many of the factors that I talked about. I also talk about testing in the book as well. If people are excited about getting tested and are interested in getting tested, that's through Poplin, and the website for that is getpoplin.com, G-E-T-P-O-P-L-I-N. I'm not working with clients one-on-one anymore. It's only through Poplin these days, so if that's something that you're interested in,   encourage you to come join us. We have an incredible set of pre-pregnancy educators as well who are deeply passionate about the space just like you and I are, Michelle. And so if you want to get a little bit more insight into what's going on with your body or your reproductive partner's body, that's what we're here for.   Michelle (39:24) Awesome. Well, Alexandria, I feel like we're on such similar pages on our approach to fertility And I love the fact that you're all about empowerment and education and getting people to really understand.   that their body is incredible and so intelligent and so powerful and that you can actually do something about it. So I had such a great conversation with you today and thank you so much for coming on.   Alexandria DeVito (39:52) Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure. And please keep doing what you're doing. It's absolutely incredible spreading the word and serving in this space. It's beautiful.  

Charlotte Grand is a registered Nutritional Therapist, fertility nutrition expert, author and creator of the popular instagram channel @thefertilitykitchen where she shares her wholesome balanced approach alongside deliciously simple, everyday recipes, backed by science. Charlotte has spent almost ten years specializing in preconception and fertility, and in her private practice supports her clients to transform their health in preparation for conception and pregnancy.

 

https://thefertilitykitchen.co.uk/

https://www.instagram.com/thefertilitykitchen/

https://www.facebook.com/thefertilitykitchen

 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Jessica has spent the past 12 years as a professional actor and voice over artist in New York City. Now, as the Host and Producer of the Mamas in Training Podcast, she supports pregnant women and aspiring moms on their journey into motherhood. What makes her show different from other pregnancy and motherhood podcasts is that she is NOT yet a mom. An autoimmune disease has delayed her journey into motherhood and she has decided to learn right alongside her audience.

With a background in performing on stage, in front of camera, as well as being a professional singer, her mission is to spread the importance of studying motherhood. She intends to use her voice and desire to connect with women everywhere, to share the lessons she has learned and give community to those in need.

 

Website: http://mamasintraining.com/

 

Facebook Community: https://urlgeni.us/facebook/mamasintrainingpod

 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mamasintrainingpod/

 

Episode mentioned:

EPISODE 73: Finding Fertility Support: https://www.mamasintraining.com/blog/ep73-finding-fertility-support-from-someone-whos-been-there-with-elizabeth-king/

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Ah the red pill!  We want to know the truth and uncover what may be holding us back but the risk in doing so may cost our mental health!  This doesn’t need to be the case though and I know this because I am usually the one giving the red pill!  I have learned that there is a way to make that red pill go down easier and there really is an option of experiencing ease when implementing new lifestyle changes after knowing the truth of what may be getting in the way.  Join me on today’s episode as I share some tips on how to ease the potency of the red pill!

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

On today’s episode I share five beliefs that may be holding you back on your fertility journey.  Beliefs can sometimes be taken as fact when unchallenged and I will share why some may need to be re-evaluated.  This episode is all about empowering you on your journey! 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Rachelle Robinett, RH (AHG) is a Registered Clinical Herbalist, Holistic Health Practitioner, and Founder of Pharmakon Supernatural — a company dedicated to exploring the art of functional nature. Rachelle combines her knowledge of herbal and traditional medicine, health science, and lifestyle design into plant-based products and accessible, self-care content for those seeking a connection between modern life and natural wellness.

In addition to managing  Pharmakon Supernatural, Rachelle is the creator of HRBLS — herbal remedy gummies for stress-anxiety relief, energy-endurance, and digestive health. Her passions include writing, educating, travel, fitness, and the exploration of the human experience.

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Kelly is a healing visionary, published author, birth advocate, and a holistic earth mother to her sons Rain and little Forest.  She calls herself a Spirit Baby Medium™, which is a title she created and with that she shares messages from the spirit of a child before life and afterlife. 

 

She uses her extra sensory awareness of Clairvoyance and Clairsentience, unique perceptions, and clinical psychological training to support the heart's of people all around the world that are looking to connect in a deeply spiritual and awakened way.

 

Her loving services focus on spirit baby communication in conception, energetic fertility healing, medical intuition, pre-birth connection in pregnancy, and sacred grief support in all areas of birth loss (miscarriage, stillbirth, & termination).  Kelly understands how to listen to the unseen and deeply felt world of spirit baby and more.

 

Kelly is the host and creator of SPIRIT BABY with over 135 episodes.  She has been in the media on birth related and spiritual podcasts and radio shows as a guest expert, being invited and attending over 20 online global summits with topics such as: fertility, pregnancy, grief, and spirituality.  She has been featured in Blogs, magazines, and articles.  She has been on a TV Show (Nighttime Prime) Nick MOMS sharing her work.

 

Instagram: @spiritbabymedium

Facebook: Spirit Baby Medium/Medical Intuitive

Facebook: SPIRIT BABIES: Awakening to Conception, Pregnancy, & Parenthood 

Facebook: The After Life of Spirit Baby- Healing, Connections, & Love

Twitter: @SPIRITBABYRADIO

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

After completing her MBA, Eloise Drane founded Family Inceptions, a full-service surrogacy and egg donation agency.  Eloise is also the host of Fertility Cafe' - an educational podcast on modern family building, and is the creator of a digital courses on independent surrogacy - Surrogacy Roadmap.

She knows that compassion and grace are necessary ingredients for the delicate journey that egg donation and gestational surrogacy can be for all parties. And understands the importance of empowerment and encouragement within the family creation process.

Eloise’s passion and unparalleled empathy blossomed from her own experience as an egg donor six times and a gestational surrogate three times.

When she isn’t guiding others in making family legacies, Eloise can be found fostering the relationships in her own family. Reading, traveling and spending quality time with her husband and children.

www.familyinceptions.com

www.surrogacyroadmap.com

Social Media Platforms: Family Inceptions Facebook: @FamilyInceptions
Twitter: @FamilyInception
Instagram: @FamilyInceptions or @eloisedrane LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eloisedrane

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Dr. Natalie Masson is a clinical psychologist who supports women on their fertility journey. She has developed expertise in working with the mind-body connection through 20 years of psychotherapy private practice. When she encountered her own fertility challenges in her mid-40s, she turned toward the resources she had collected over the years to guide her through the physical and emotional challenges she was encountering. She found the tools to be so profoundly helpful that she began sharing what she had discovered with other women on the fertility path. Over the past 5 years, she has developed her Fertility from the Soul programs to support women who are drawn to a holistic mind-body approach to fertility.

 

Website: http://www.fertilityfromthesoul.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fertilityfromthesoul 

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrJynvX1U5wM2BgSC9csVsA

Email: info@fertilityfromthesoul.com 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Justine Bold has worked as an academic in the UK at the University of Worcester since 2008. She is now also Program Director for CPD in the Medical School at Cardiff University. She has written articles on infertility, appeared in the media and coedited a book entitled ‘Integrated approaches to Infertility, IVF and Recurrent Miscarriage’ that was published in 2016. She has published widely in academic journals on gluten and celiac disease and also on the integrative management of female reproductive health conditions. She is working towards PhD by publication having also co-authored a book on Mental Health in 2019 and recently contributed chapters to an upcoming text book ‘Gluten related disorders’ to be published by Elsevier.

Justine had a long personal journey to motherhood starting with a pregnancy loss in her early thirties finally becoming a mum in her forties. She is passionate about raising awareness about the infertility experience and in helping healthcare professionals to understand patients and clients to improve patient care and she is currently working on research projects in this area. She also appeared in the UK at Fertility Fest in 2018 and at the Fertility Show in Manchester in 2019.

To learn more: https://www.worcester.ac.uk/about/profiles/justine-bold

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/people/view/1700118-bold-justine

 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Dr. Tara Brandner works as an experienced doctorate nurse practitioner and fertility coach with patients worldwide. She received additional certification through the American Society of Reproductive Medicine (ASRM) and Marquette Natural Family Planning. After enduring a long road through infertility followed by a traumatic pregnancy, she turned her hurt into hope for others. She formed the first and only nonprofit in North Dakota and South Dakota serving those diagnosed with infertility. She has been the driving force behind legislative efforts since 2019 to increase access to care for infertility and fertility preservation. Tara has expanded her career to providing coaching and telemedicine services that offer a personalized approach to fertility care and pregnancy after infertility. In addition, she offers a wide variety of women's healthcare services provided via telemedicine. She has combined her experience as a healthcare professional and personal struggle to help navigate couples through their family-building path.

 

www.tarabfertility.com

instagram.com/tarabfertility

facebook.com/tarabfertility

https://www.tiktok.com/@tarabfertility?lang=en

 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Paul F. Austin is one of the most prominent voices in the world of psychedelics. As the founder of Third Wave, he has educated millions on the importance of safe and effective psychedelic experiences. A pioneer at the intersection of psychedelics, personal transformation, and professional success, his work has been featured in Forbes, Rolling Stone, and the BBC's Worklife.   Paul helps leaders, creatives, and pioneers leverage psychedelics for exponential personal growth and professional development. He views psychedelics as a skill refined through mentorship, courageous exploration, and intentional use. According to Paul, learning how to master this skill will be crucial in the story of humanity’s present-future evolution.   Note: Psychedelics are not legal in most U.S. states so it’s important to take this episode as educational and not medical or suggestive advice. This is a potent controlled substance and this episode is not intended to recommend or suggest that anyone take it.    Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter)   Social Media Paul F. Austin: - IG: https://www.instagram.com/paulaustin3w/ - X: https://twitter.com/PaulAustin3w?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor - LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-f-austin/   Social Media Third Wave - YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCATHWJYqouqzF3-5GMIaOuQ - FB: https://www.facebook.com/thirdwaveishere - X: https://twitter.com/thirdwaveishere - IG: http://www.instagram.com/thirdwaveishere - LI: http://www.linkedin.com/company/third-wave-psychedelics/   In this conversation, Paul Austin discusses his personal journey with psychedelics and how they have impacted his life. He explains the potential therapeutic benefits of microdosing psychedelics, such as psilocybin and ketamine, and how they can help with mental health issues and even fertility. Paul emphasizes the importance of finding a qualified practitioner and following a safe and responsible approach when using psychedelics. He also shares resources, such as his podcast and coaching program, for those who want to learn more.   Takeaways

• Psychedelics, when used responsibly, may have therapeutic benefits for the mind.
• Psychedelics can promote neuroplasticity and reduce inflammation in the brain, leading to positive changes in mental health.
• Finding a qualified practitioner and following a safe approach is crucial when using psychedelics.
• Resources like podcasts, guides, and coaching programs are available for those interested in learning more about psychedelics.

  Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free.   For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com   The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/   Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/   For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com   The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/   Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility   Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/     Transcript:   Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast fall.   Paul Austin (00:01) Thank you for having me on, Michelle.   Michelle (00:03) I'd love for you to share your background, how you got into this work. And then we'll obviously dive in a little later.   Paul Austin (00:10) Well, the topic we're covering today is or has been a fairly taboo one. And the place that I grew up in was raised in that was, I would say particularly so. My family was pretty religious growing up. So we were in church every Sunday. This is, I grew up in Michigan in the Midwest and.   at the age of 16, I started to smoke a little cannabis and soon after that tried alcohol for the first time. And then a few years after that started to work with LSD and mushrooms. And early on in that journey, like pretty much right after I started smoking weed, my parents found out that I had been, you know, trying cannabis and they sat me down and   Uh, one Sunday after church and my dad looked at me and was like, you know, I haven't been this disappointed since my brother passed away in a car accident 35 years ago, something like that. So it clearly pained my parents. I mean, it clearly impacted them way more than it impacted me. There's this very negative. Mine was very positive. So it just became clear at that point in time that we were just, we were of different perspectives, which I accepted and was fine with. I was much more the rebel and you know, uh, the   person who was skeptical of groupthink and was always asking questions and sort of being a little bit of a menace. I was definitely a little bit of a menace growing up as a young kid. But that then matured into, oh, I would like to choose a path that's more unconventional that, you know, most people don't necessarily follow. So when I was 21, I moved to Turkey and I had been influenced by my early LSD and psychedelic use. I had had these experiences with...   either by myself or with a small group of friends in the woods, in nature, and always just felt very creative from that place and wanting to sort of paint my own picture or dream my own dream or create lifestyle design in a way that I felt was very intentional. And so I thought the first the first path coming out of university would be fun to travel. So I taught English in Turkey, and then I started a business in Thailand like an online   business, like a sort of early digital nomad remote work lifestyle. And I was traveling all over. I'd go to Vietnam. I'd go to, you know, I did road trips all across Europe. I went to the Amazon for a conference in Ayahuasca at one point. So very nomadic traveling all over. And soon after that phase started, I moved to Budapest and I worked with LSD again and had a very profound experience. And this was 2015. And at that point in time, I was   noticing more people were talking about psychedelics. There are more conversations happening around them, more research being published. So I started Third Wave as an educational platform resource for like cultural or legalization of psychedelics. And the story kind of like this first chapter sort of concludes when in 2018, Michael Pollan's book came out, How to Change Your Mind. I gave it to my dad to read and he read it.   And soon after he started to microdose and then soon after that, I guided him through a high dose psilocybin journey. So, you know, this is almost 13, 14 years after that initial conversation we had, their minds had been changed quite a bit. And now my parents are, you know, fully supportive and behind what I do professionally and all those sorts of things. So what I've sort of learned over the last 10 years being professionally involved in this work is.   you know, if we have our own experiences with them, we speak from that place, you know, we, it's, it's good not to sort of willfully push it onto others, but providing education, providing context, providing answers to questions if they're interested. That's really what I strive to do and support people in, in and on their path with psychedelics and microdoses.   Michelle (04:13) Yeah, I mean, I know this sounds almost like a random topic to be putting into fertility work. I like to kind of talk about everything. I think everything that could be medicinal for yourself on a psycho spiritual, level to me is welcome. And I'm interested because I see a lot of really emerging   data, information about how this can help people, like deeply in a different way than some of the pharmaceuticals, which if anything, kind of like push down what we're really feeling and like going into the root of what's happening in your body or your mind can impact your body and can also impact your mind and it can also impact how you perceive the world. And I had one of my patients, actually a couple of patients, um,   do this, microdose. And they've come to me and told me, one of them, I remember her having major anxiety and I was helping her prepare for IVF. She had many failed rounds and was going through this for many years and young woman, you know, too. So she was young and she's like, I don't understand why we can't start a family. And I felt her anxiety, like literally can feel her anxiety every time she used to come in. And I would talk to her about meditation and different things. And then,   One day she came in and I felt like she was like a different person. And she told me that she started microdosing and that it really helped her tremendously come out of anxiety. And shortly thereafter, she ended up getting pregnant. She had a positive outcome. So I was like, okay, this is interesting. And I've talked to another patient of mine who had miscarried. And after many years of trying,   and finally got pregnant and miscarried and went through a lot of anxiety around it. And she told me, and for a while actually, I didn't hear from her. She needed a break. And it's so very often this happens with this field. You know, people go inwards and try to figure out or take breaks really from trying anything because it could be so emotionally exhausting. And she said the one thing that really helped her is she microdosed as well. And then I started watching, I love Gaia.   TV, I watch a lot of topics on there. And they were talking about microdosing and really the power of psychedelics and how it can impact the mind. And I'm just intrigued. And then your people reached out to me. I'm like, you know what, this is a really interesting topic and I really want to look into this. And you're right. It is kind of a taboo because it's considered a controlled substance, but it is a lot of people are starting to look into it for therapeutics because they're seeing that it   has an impact on almost rewiring the mind. And I find that really intriguing. So I really want to talk about like, how does this work? How does it work on the mind? Like, what's it? What's the impact like for microdosing, for example, psilocybin? Like, how does that work?   Paul Austin (07:16) Thank you.   So when we think about the mechanism of action of low doses of psychedelics, there's the protocols that we can follow, like do it twice a week or do it three times a week. The prescription sort of being minimum of one month up to three months and then take a two to three week break and cycle off of it. So that's very much the what of.   Microdosing. The how is where you get a little bit more into why this might be impacting fertility, why this may be impacting our body's sort of sense of homeostasis or, you know, a sense of vitality or full health. And that really looks at its impact on certain neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine. It has a positive impact on both.   So it helps with focus, attention, motivation. It also helps people to feel better, to feel good. And that mechanism of action also plays out in its impact on neuroplasticity and the production of BDN -Apran -Gerab neurotrophic factor, which is a precursor to neuroplasticity. So what we know about microdosing is that when it's done in a consistent rhythm,   Ideally combined with some form of practice like meditation or yoga or just more mindfulness around what we eat. So some sort of intention is weaving through it. It can drive towards a number of beneficial outcomes depending on the context. So some people will say, oh, this really helped me to get off my SSRIs. This helped me to get off certain benzodiazepines. This helped me to get off.   ADHD medication, some people will be like, Oh, this really helped me to find my rhythm again in work and I was able to access flow or some people are like, Oh, this really helped me manage or heal my relationship or help me to heal fertility issues. So it depends on the context depends on the intention behind the overall experience. But the driving factor is is that impact on neuroplasticity.   Michelle (09:30) Mm -hmm.   Paul Austin (09:31) and what it does to the prefrontal cortex in terms of helping us to plan and think and change and shift. But it also has a really an impact on the amygdala, which is our field response center. So oftentimes people notice they become more courageous. They're more willing to sort of step outside their normal bounds of what's comfortable. And that sense of courage allows people to explore new territory, to try new things, which can often lead to beneficial outcomes.   Michelle (09:51) Mm -hmm.   Paul Austin (09:58) because so oftentimes we get stuck in ruts, we get stuck in default patterns, we get stuck in doing the same thing over and over again. And we often need a little push to break those habits and those cycles and learn to be, to sort of, I would say, regulate ourselves in the midst of uncertainty and chaos.   Michelle (10:17) Right. And then just to kind of be clear, it's not, you're not getting the courage, it's not like you're going to be more of a risk taker per se. It's just, it gives you more of that feeling where you're able to more.   Paul Austin (10:32) Yeah, it depends on the context, right? There are some people who certainly they go drink ayahuasca, they smoke five MEO, or they do these more higher therapeutic doses of psychedelics and they it impacts them in such a way that they make decisions that sometimes they later regret like this is part of the education around responsible psychedelic use is if you have a really big experience, give it time before you're making any major life decisions.   Michelle (10:49) Mm -hmm.   But with microdosing specifically, it's not. Yeah, yeah.   Paul Austin (10:58) with microdosing not so much, right? And so that's sort of the upside or benefit, especially to someone who's fairly new to this is it's almost like contained risk taking, you know, not unhealthy risk taking or not impulsive behavior that could be detrimental or maladaptive, right? We're really looking at just a slight uptick in, oh, I'd like to try a new thing. Like I think it would be helpful to do something that's slightly uncomfortable. Like,   Cold plunging would be a really good example. Cold plunging is very uncomfortable. But we know that it's very beneficial and very safe. And so that's really for a lot of people would be a risk, but it's a very healthy potential beneficial risk.   Michelle (11:28) Mm.   Yeah.   Right.   And neuroplasticity, people are hearing that for the first time, it basically means that you can rewire your brain and kind of make changes. Is it beneficial in the sense that it almost allows you to change habits more easily than without it?   Paul Austin (11:56) So there's been some interesting research on octopus with MDMA. So octopi are normally very independent. They're not really all that social. And there was a researcher at Johns Hopkins who gave them MDMA. And noticed that for this critical learning period of time, they were more pro -social, they played together, they were in that way. And that taught them these new patterns and new behaviors that they continued to exhibit after the MDMA totally passed through their system two weeks, three weeks later.   And so the sort of, that's probably one of the most interesting elements. Cal Berkeley, UC Berkeley is now carrying out further research on that. They just received a $6 million grant from the Bob and Renee Parsons Foundation. Bob was the founder of GoDaddy and is now supporting psychedelic research. And so they're studying what is that critical learning period after we do a high therapeutic dose. And what it looks like is it's two to three weeks.   where there's this open window of change in your brain where it just becomes easier to try new things, to weave in new patterns and weave in new behaviors, to develop what's called cortical plasticity, to develop more gray matter in the brain. All of this helps our brain become younger, communicate better, helps us to have more energy.   And it's also related to just overall inflammation, which it could be the tie into fertility as well. When we're looking at overall, you know, holistic health metrics to track and understand it's inflammation. And psychedelics are shown to have a beneficial and positive outcome and impact on lowering inflammation. And because, and that's also, it's also why it has an impact on neuroplasticity. Because when we lower inflammation in the gut, we lower it in the brain.   Michelle (13:22) Mm -hmm.   Mm -hmm.   Paul Austin (13:41) when there's less inflammation in the brain, the brain becomes younger, it becomes healthier, it becomes more like a sponge, if you will. And so that impact on inflammation, I think is responsible for a lot of the, there are people who heal shingles with microdosing. There are people who have gotten through Lyme disease with low doses of psychedelics. There are people who found beneficial outcomes for cluster headaches, which are one of the most, like,   Michelle (14:04) Mm -hmm.   Paul Austin (14:09) just awful feelings in the world and then fertility as well. So when I look at that overall holistic impact, I'm really wanting to understand its impact in inflammatory markers in particular, and if by significantly reducing those, it helps to create more space for things like babies.   Michelle (14:28) So MDMA is that what is in psilocybin, like mushrooms?   Paul Austin (14:35) MDMA is also known as ecstasy psilocybin is what's in mushrooms. So psilocybin is also produced synthetically That is a tryptamine. It's a certain typical classic psychedelic MDMA is what's called allophenethylamine and it has a methamphetamine component It's more stimulating which can really help with PTSD in particular. So MDMA will be approved by the FDA most likely this year   Michelle (14:40) Uh huh.   Mm -hmm.   Paul Austin (15:00) to treat PTSD. So by the end of this year, there will be medically available MDMA for people who have PTSD. Psilocybin will be a few years on, but it's currently legal in Colorado and Oregon and potentially soon in California and other states.   Michelle (15:16) So if somebody was to, were to want to do this therapeutically, are you able to do this therapeutically, psilocybin other than those states?   Paul Austin (15:27) Well, yes and no, right? Like there are, there are plenty of people who work with psilocybin in underground circles. There are a lot of people who grow their own mushrooms. We have a little cute grow kit on third wave where we make it really easy for you to grow your own mushrooms. There are a lot of people who fly and travel to Oregon or they fly and travel to Colorado. I also had a previous project many years ago where I set up a legal center in the Netherlands.   We'd have people fly over there, a lot of Americans fly over to the Netherlands to do a high dose retreat experience. But all of the policy is really focused on these high dose therapeutic experiences. There isn't a lot that's done specific to micro dosing. So one project that I've been focused on building has been something called the micro dosing collective, which is a 501c3 nonprofit to pass policy.   related to adult use of psilocybin so people can have access to microdosing and can do it at home legally. Right now, most of this is illegal. But it's...   Michelle (16:36) Yeah. So obviously I don't want to like be telling people to do anything illegal, especially here on the podcast. Like I don't want to, you know, that's not the message here, but I do want people, if they're interested to know what avenues they could do that was, legal.   Paul Austin (16:53) which are basically these retreat options, I mean, in Oregon and Colorado. We also on third wave, we have directory of clinics, ketamine clinics. Ketamine is legal and used widely for various issues and conditions. It's very safe, it's very effective. It's been approved by the FDA for treatment resistant depression, but generic ketamine is also widely available. So folks wanna stay on the right side of the law. So to say, ketamine clinics are great.   Michelle (17:02) Mm -hmm.   Paul Austin (17:21) a lot of retreat centers in Oregon and Colorado that are starting to open as well as Costa Rica, other places in South America, the Netherlands, even Canada. So there are more and more options that are coming online. And again, by the end of this year, MDMA will be medically available. My expectation is that within five to six years, we'll see widespread accessibility through various channels of psychedelics and plant medicines. And...   Even now, if you kind of know how to look or where to look and Third Wave is a great resource for that, you can do things that are totally legal and very effective currently. There are lots of options for that.   Michelle (17:56) Let's talk about ketamine because I actually have heard, I remember going to a conference and they talked about ketamine and the benefits that... What I like about it, I mean, obviously this isn't my specialty at all. I don't really know about my medicine in general. It's not my specialty, but I know that a lot of my patients coming in,   they were taking antidepressants, like a lot of things that I hear is it's very hard to get off of it. Sometimes people would say they almost feel like a numbness in their emotion. It sounds like what's being given mainstream is not the best option, like for long -term, and it's not a real solution. It's more just let's get through this. And I'm not saying to get off anything. If you are on it, obviously listen to whatever   Your doctors are telling you, you know, whoever you're choosing to work with, it just doesn't seem to me from listening to what my patients are telling me that it is something that is long -term or root, you know, like a root cause perspective. Whereas what I'm understanding from ketamine and even microdosing just based on what I've heard is that it gets into the root.   of what's happening gets you really to the root to clear out what it is that's causing the depression or any kind of anxiety. So I've heard a lot of great things about ketamine that it works, it sustains itself. If you do it, it actually has a lasting effect and changes and rewires the brain, which is what got my attention. Because it's much better if you don't have to   something for the rest of your life. Or that if you get off of it, you're going to have all kinds of symptoms. So it's so much better to know that there's something out there that could possibly really make a lasting healing effect on the mind. So talk to us about ketamine. And obviously that is legal. And it's something that it's a great option, it seems like for a lot of people, like who should look into it or consider it and who should not.   Paul Austin (20:11) The academies are great.   Michelle (20:12) So it's three questions.   Paul Austin (20:14) Yeah, I'll do my best. If I don't cover anything, we can circle back. But ketamine's a, it's a class, it's a disassociative. It's been used since like the 1950s as an anesthetic in emergency rooms. It's one of the most widely used drugs in the world. It's incredibly safe at even very high doses for sedation, especially of young kids in the ER. And they found out, I don't know, maybe 20, 25 years ago that it had antidepressant effects.   Michelle (20:17) I'll remind you.   Paul Austin (20:41) And so it's fantastic for suicidality. It immediately interrupts those thought patterns. It's one of the best currently available treatments for suicidality. It's really helpful for depression. A lot of therapists are now using lower doses of ketamine within a therapeutic practice. So they'll do a two hour session instead of a one hour session and guide someone through a low dose of ketamine as part of that container. That's what we call a psycholytic approach. It's similar to microdosing or low dosing, but just slightly more.   And ketamine is legal everywhere. It's widely available. There are in -person clinics. There's also the opportunity to do ketamine at home. I've done both. I've gone into clinics and worked with ketamine and I've also done it at home. Both have upsides and downsides. The IV ketamine, which happens in a clinic is more intense and it's more of a sterile, a bit of more of a sterile environment.   Some clinics don't provide great support. Some clinics do. You want to work in a, go to a clinic that provides great therapeutic support as part of your treatment protocol. At home, you have a friend or a family member who's sitting for you and virtual coaching, but the ketamine is simply sent to your home. You do it in the safety of your own home. A lot of people enjoy that. And as long as they get the dosage correct, you know,   adverse outcomes are minimal. They happen, but they're very minimal with ketamine. And I think it could be a really great bridge or sort of transition point for, especially if people are on SOS or on antidepressants, it may be a new useful modality that could be helpful and effective. This isn't necessarily the case for everyone, but maybe 60 to 70 % of people find that ketamine works for them and is effective. And, you know, I think it's...   It's for me at least and for a lot of people I would say there's something deeper in mushrooms and ayahuasca and these classic psychedelics that ketamine doesn't offer as much. Ketamine is good to do every now and then. I love to do it in combination with body work or massage because it has an anesthetic effect so I can work with practitioners that can get deep into tissue and fascia which can be very, very helpful for just creating more space in the body.   So I have very intentional use cases for it in specific contexts, but by and large, I try not to use it much because it is a disassociative, it can be addictive. If you do it consistently for a period of time, it can cause bladder issues. And so it's good to have sort of a every now and then approach to working with ketamine after maybe an initial treatment protocol. The initial treatment protocol typically calls for six to eight to 10 treatments within the first two to three.   Michelle (23:03) Mm -hmm.   Paul Austin (23:22) to four months, right? Pretty concentrated and focused initial treatment.   Michelle (23:25) Yeah, and also, I mean, a lot of this obviously is medicinal and like any medicine, you should really be aware of like what you should do or not do. I definitely highly suggest talking to somebody qualified and obviously doing it through the   But what do you suggest if somebody's   Because it is something that like can be potentially, depending on like any trauma that you have in the past, it can potentially put you at a place of extreme vulnerability as well. What are some things that people should be aware of if they're looking into this?   Paul Austin (24:03) You wanna find a great provider or a great practitioner, someone you can trust, someone that has an ethical practice, has integrity, is compassionate, is experienced ideally. And you wanna really interview the person who you're intending to sit with or the provider or the clinic or the retreat that you're planning to go to. You wanna know these people. So I typically tell people to focus on five aspects.   There should be an assessment process. They should do an intake on your personal background and history. You know, if you're on any medications, if you do have a history of certain, you know, trauma or alcohol, whatever it is, right? All of that is important to know and for you to communicate to them in an initial intake. Then they can assess whether they can support you or whether they need to refer you out to someone who can.   support you. So that's also an important element of working with the practitioners, you want to make sure you're in good care, you want to make sure you're in the hands of someone who you know can take care of you and facilitate and guide you through a safe and effective experience. So asking, kind of getting making sure there's an intake form, asking them what they do for preparation, do they offer preparation support, what type of preparation support.   What's the experience like? How much medicine? What medicine are we taking? How long does it last? Right? And what might be some of the different elements of it? And then what do they do for integration? So going back to that critical learning period that we talked about, how do they support the integration process? Do they offer support after a, you know, working with a psychedelic experience? And then what, what do they know about microdosing? That would be the fifth one. Can, can they help coach you through or support you?   Michelle (25:40) it. I mean, this is definitely a fascinating topic, I will say. And I do think that it's, it has a huge place in the future of mind, body of medicine.   I just think that there's just so much potential here, which is why I really wanted to have you on. Like it was just definitely something that I was like, okay, this is going to be a really interesting conversation. That being said, I don't think that it's for everybody. And I definitely think that people need to like look into it, but it's,   educational. It's really important that people listen and hear that there is a potential for this. And I do think that it could be a huge asset to mind medicine and hoping that, obviously, it could be done in a way that can really benefit with qualified practitioners or people that really know what they're doing, because it is potent. That's why I say it's not for everybody. It is a very potent medicine. It's not something that should just be...   taken without thought. So yeah, if people want to learn more, what kind of resources do you offer and how can people find you?   Paul Austin (26:47) Yeah, so if this, if this made anyone curious, so they want to dive in, learn more, we have, I've hosted my own podcast for years now. We have over 250 episodes. Uh, so you can jump into the podcast. You could, we have a bunch of guides on our homepage of the different substances. You can dive into those with a lot of the research and context on them. We have the directory that I mentioned. So all of that's available. And then if there are any people who want to take the next step, who want to go deeper.   We offer coaching support as well through a one -to -one coaching program called personalized psychedelic coaching. So reach out to us, let us know how we could support. This was a fun, quick hit, quick dive into psychedelics and microdosing. And if anyone wants to reach out to me individually, I'm on Instagram and Twitter quite a bit, PaulAustin3W, so find me there.   Michelle (27:39) I'll have all the links shared in the episode notes if anybody wants to check it out. And Paul, this is a really interesting conversation. I really appreciate you coming on and elaborating and explaining more about the therapeutics of psychedelics.   Paul Austin (27:53) Thank you, Michelle. This was a ton of fun.  

Sarah Holland is the Fertile Mindset Coach and has a unique, effective and empowering approach to fertility support. Working in the world of fertility since 2001, and having experienced fertility challenges herself, she pioneered the use of EFT Tapping specifically for fertility support. With the Fertile Mindset approach to coaching, support and emotional healing she has helped thousands of people negotiate the emotional rollercoaster of fertility conditions. Sarah believes it is possible for anyone’s fertility journey to become a much more positive and fulfilling experience, and that by recognizing and supporting the emotional aspects of fertility, the path to parenthood can become more successful in every way including creating a family.

 

Sarah’s coaching clients and Fertile Mindset Sanctuary members frequently tell her that the results they achieve with her support and EFT “feel like magic!”. Sarah has appeared on BBC News and Channel 5 talking about fertility topics, and has spoken on stage at the Fertility Show and My Future Family Show in London, the American Fertility Expo in California, and Fertilitetsmessen in Copenhagen, as well as at numerous online fertility events and podcasts. She is also a proud member of the AlphaZita holistic fertility team, offering integrated fertility support on retreat at the luxury Sani resort in Greece.

 

Sarah is based in the U.K. and her support is available worldwide via zoom consultations and within her membership, the Fertile Mindset Sanctuary. She is also the host of the popular Fertile Mindset Podcast: https://www.fertilemindset.com/podcast/ Having experienced her own fertility challenges Sarah is now a mum to two boys through both birth and adoption.

www.fertilemindset.com

Instagram: @fertile_mindset

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FertileMindset/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/fertilemindset

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

In this episode, I share how easy it is to get drained and uncentered when entering the unknown journey of trying to conceive.  While it seems like there is no other way to respond to such an unknown circumstance, it is important not to put your well-being on hold until things resolve.  Join me as I discuss why it’s important to charge your batteries and I share some interesting studies about how your mind is so important in your process!

 

Studies mentioned in this episode:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-019-0749-5

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2012.00390/full

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Zita West is a leading fertility and pregnancy expert.  She is a practicing midwife, acupuncturist, nutritional advisor and author of ten fertility and pregnancy books. She is acknowledged as one of Europe’s leading experts on how we can improve our prospects at each key stage of the reproductive process through natural means or, if necessary, through medical intervention.

Zita has been involved in fertility now for over 30 years and over that time thousands of couples have come to her for advice on how to get into optimum shape – physiologically, nutritionally and emotionally – for all the vital stages of childbirth from pre-conception to conception, pregnancy and the months immediately after birth.

 

https://zita-west.myshopify.com/

https://www.instagram.com/zita.west/

https://www.facebook.com/zitawestfertility

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

In this episode, I cover how body awareness can act as an important tool to improve your fertility health.  I go over how your body is designed to “speak” to you in order to maintain balance and well being.  I also share some actionable tips you can implement throughout your day!  Be sure to tune in.

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Emily Ginn is an IVF warrior, coach, fellow podcaster and Mama to 2 boys. 
She gives tools to women so they can learn how to cut their overwhelm and anxiety in order to get love and laughter back into their lives. With 15 years in social work and certification from The Life Coach School, Emily has taught so many women going through IVF how to heal shame, trauma and become more mindful during one of the most intense processes in their lives.

Podcast - open.spotify.com/show/2UF1unuOUwDnL48T3LUrF9
Instagram - www.instagram.com/ivfthiscoaching/ 
Website - www.ivfthiscoaching.com/ 

 

Book mentioned in the episode: The Art of being a Healing Presence: https://amzn.to/3M95LHQ

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

 

In this episode I speak about triggers that come up when facing fertility challenges.  This is a topic that comes up a lot when my patients share with me their stories.  That is why I felt compelled to speak about it on today’s episode.  I share some of the tools that I often share with my patients to help ease the discomfort of triggers.

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

I have that there are common mistakes that people make when trying to conceive.  I have seen these mistakes so many times that I decided to make an episode about it!  Tune in to find out more about five common mistakes to avoid when trying to conceive!

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Jenna Hua’s extensive experience as an academic and health advocate led to her founding Million Marker in 2019, shortly after completing a Postdoctoral Fellowship with Stanford University’s School of Medicine. Throughout her career in academia, Jenna has researched and published numerous studies that largely focused on citizens science, general health, and the impact of food consumption on a person’s well-being. In one of her most recent publications, Jenna used machine learning to identify people based on food consumed in order to offer healthier food options. She also published another report that studied the arsenic exposure and risks of eating rice within adolescents in Kunming, China. Jenna has been a Project Manager for UNC’s Carolina Population Center, a Graduate Instructor and Research Assistant at UC Berkeley, and a Project Manager at UCLA’s Center for Population Research. She was also a US Fulbright Fellow at the Institute of International Education in Kunming, China. Jenna holds a BS in Nutrition and an MPH and PhD in Environmental Health Sciences from UC Berkeley.

 

https://www.millionmarker.com

https://www.instagram.com/million_marker/

https://twitter.com/million_marker

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Jenna DeFord is the founder to The Guidance Agency, which is an egg donation and surrogacy agency helping intended parents expand their family. They connect, counsel and guide families on the road to parenthood using their first-hand experience, expertise and handpicked network of surrogates and donors.

 

www.guidanceagency.com

Instagram: @guidance_agency

Facebook page: guidanceagency

 

 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

In today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I discuss a very important aspect of trying to conceive which is nutrition.  This can be a confusing topic because there are so many fad diets and opinions.  In this episode I discuss different food categories that support hormonal balance and preparation for conception.  Don’t miss this very important topic!

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Lily Nichols is a Registered Dietitian/Nutritionist, Certified Diabetes Educator, researcher, and author with a passion for evidence-based prenatal nutrition. Drawing from the current scientific literature and the wisdom of traditional cultures, her work is known for being research-focused, thorough, and sensible. Her bestselling book, Real Food for Gestational Diabetes (and online course of the same name), presents a revolutionary nutrient-dense, lower carb approach for managing gestational diabetes. Her work has not only helped tens of thousands of women manage their gestational diabetes (most without the need for blood sugar-lowering medication), but has also influenced nutrition policies internationally. Lily’s clinical expertise and extensive background in prenatal nutrition have made her a highly sought after consultant and speaker in the field.  Lily’s second book, Real Food for Pregnancy, is an evidence-based look at the gap between conventional prenatal nutrition guidelines and what's optimal for mother and baby. With over 930 citations, this is the most comprehensive text on prenatal nutrition to date. Lily is also creator of the popular blog, www.LilyNicholsRDN.com, which explores a variety of topics related to real food, mindful eating, and pregnancy nutrition.    Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter)   https://lilynicholsrdn.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lilynicholsrdn/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PilatesNutritionist Twitter: https://twitter.com/LilyNicholsRDN Book: https://realfoodforfertility.com/   Takeaways

• Optimizing health prior to conception is crucial for a healthy pregnancy.
• Balancing macronutrients, such as carbohydrates and protein, is important for fertility.
• Including organ meats, like liver, in the diet can provide essential nutrients for fertility.
• Concerns about toxins in liver are unfounded, as the liver does not store toxins.
• Vitamin A toxicity is rare and usually associated with synthetic supplements, not whole food sources like liver.

Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free.   For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com   The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/   Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/   Transcript:   Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Lily.   Lily (00:01) Thanks for having me.   Michelle (00:02) I'm definitely excited to talk to you a lot about your book that just came out, which by the way, congratulations, it looks like it's doing phenomenal as I knew it would. it just has so many great tips and information and research.   So, before we get started, I'd love for you to introduce yourself, your background, how you got into this work, and also what inspired you to write the book with Lisa.   Lily (00:24) Yeah, sure. So first of all, thank you for the kind words in the book. We're very excited that it's been welcomed with open arms. My work, my professional background is as a registered dietitian nutritionist and also a diabetes educator. And I've really spent the majority of my career working in the women's health space, spanning the whole childbearing years from preconception through pregnancy, postpartum recovery, breastfeeding.   Also focusing on certain pregnancy complications, especially gestational diabetes. So that's really what I found working in many different areas in the prenatal space from clinical practice to public policy to training other practitioners to not just like conventional clinical practice, but my own private practice is that.   There's often a significant difference between what actually works well for helping to maintain optimal health and healthy pregnancies versus what the guidelines recommend that we do. And so a lot of the whole reason I even started writing books was that it became kind of frustrating to me hearing from clients who, or from other practitioners who were kind of dutifully following the guidelines and their clients were not getting.   Michelle (01:16) Mm-hmm.   Lily (01:36) good results. And I happen to love reading research and writing about it and having kind of worked through some of these issues myself already in practice, I decided to take to writing about it to get it to a wider audience outside of just my own clinical practice. So yeah, we now have three books. I have Real Food for Gestational Diabetes, my first one, Real Food for Pregnancy and now Real Food for Fertility.   And the whole reason that I thought adding this third book to the lineup would be helpful and why Lisa and I decided to do it together is that the whole issue of trying to have a healthy pregnancy, avoid complications, optimize your baby's development and all that, while what you eat during pregnancy certainly does matter, otherwise I wouldn't have written about it and wouldn't advocate for it.   Technically, if we really want to optimize outcomes, you want to be looking in advance of the pregnancy. You want to have a healthy lead up to that pregnancy, because a lot of the very sensitive periods of babies' development are in those early weeks. Many of us are aware of the conversation around folate and preventing neural tube defects, for example, and how you want to optimize your intake preconception. I mean, public.   Public health only calls out one nutrient, but you can extend that same logic for a number of different nutrients. And if we can optimize health prior to conception, and ideally in both partners, not just mom, but also for dad, then we can optimize the chances of a healthy pregnancy. Part of why I really wanted Lisa on board for this project, I mean, we had been talking about doing this for years.   Michelle (03:01) Yeah.   Lily (03:13) was with her expertise in the menstrual cycle and hormonal health. I mean, she works with helping couples both conceive and also prevent pregnancy using fertility awareness. It's also an important part of the conversation to get your menstrual cycle in check, which reflects that your hormones are in check and your menstrual cycle is only in a good place when your nutrient status is in check. And if you wanna achieve pregnancy, you could be doing everything perfectly right, but if you're not getting the timing right.   Michelle (03:34) Mm-hmm.   Lily (03:40) for sex, you're not going to conceive if you're not, you know, doing this in your fertile window. If you're not in your fertile window, pregnancy isn't going to happen, right? So bringing in that conversation around hormones and the menstrual cycle, kind of using your cycle as a reflection of what might be going on health-wise, which can sort of steer you in the direction of areas that need some attention, and also building in the conversation around male health and sperm quality.   Michelle (03:41) Mm-hmm.   Bye.   Lily (04:05) That's really where Lisa shines. So I think we really, you know, brought our heads together to bring you the best of both worlds so we can optimize fertility, optimize your chances of conception, and then also pave the way for a healthier pregnancy ahead.   Michelle (04:18) Yeah, I mean, it is very important to definitely start early because obviously the quality that you'll get from the sperm and the egg is going to make a huge difference in the pregnancy. So it is something that like, I remember this is way back when I was getting, when I was trying, and people were talking to me about folic acid at the time, it was folic acid, not folate. That's kind of what they were talking about a lot.   And people were saying, you have to do this way before you even start, because obviously it's such an important part, that early section. And you can't just have your body ready with all the nutrients when you give it to the body right at that point. You have to do it ahead of time, because obviously your body needs to process and it has to translate. And I remember you talking about sperm and egg.   really like the food being similar for both. And I thought that was really cool because sometimes it seems kind of like this two separate thing, but it really is ultimately like us humans, our bodies need nutrients and those nutrients help reproductive health. And it's nice to know that, you know, it's nice to look at it that way, that it really is like the quality is impacted.   similarly for men and women with very similar foods. So I wanted, I mean, I know this is a long range, but if you could just talk about like the basics, the macros, that people should be focusing on when it comes to sperm and egg quality.   Lily (05:36) Sure. Yes, there is thankfully a lot of overlap between male and female health, although there are some differences as well. But the kind of take home point is that doing a lot of the same health practices has carry over benefits for both. You don't need to be cooking separate meals for your partner just because, yeah. So   Michelle (05:53) Yeah.   Lily (05:55) Some of the things that are really key for both male and female fertility are keeping your blood sugar in a healthy range. And so when it comes to carbohydrates, for example, finding a level of carbohydrates that your body can process without experiencing significant hyperglycemia, like high blood sugar after meals, is optimal. A lot of that comes down to the quality of carbohydrates   Michelle (06:16) Mm-hmm.   Lily (06:18) less processed whole food carbohydrates, you know, your fruits, your vegetables, even a little bit of whole grains or fermented grains like sourdough, beans, legumes, like those sorts of things have much, although they do impact blood sugar levels, they have a much lesser effect on blood sugar levels than if most of your carbohydrates are coming from sugar, white flour, all the refined grains and the processed foods.   In the U.S. we're in a situation where 58% of calories on the average American diet are coming from ultra processed foods. And those are usually foods that have a base of some type of refined sugar, like corn syrup, some type of a refined starch, like white flour, low quality, like vegetable oil, seed oils, and then all the other ingredients that you can't even pronounce.   that are in there to make this food-like substance actually appeal. And so if we just shift the balance over to whole foods, massive benefits, not just for blood sugar levels, but nutrient intake. Another key one is getting your protein in check. Protein does not raise your blood sugar levels unlike carbohydrates, and so having plenty of protein with every single time you're eating, having some form of protein.   whether it's a meal or a snack, can do a lot to help blunt the elevation in blood sugar that we experience naturally from carbohydrate foods. So especially starting your morning with a protein-rich breakfast for both male and female clients is hugely important to setting the stage for healthy blood sugar and insulin levels, healthy cortisol levels, healthy hormone balance for the rest of the day. And then...   Since most of our whole food protein sources naturally come with fat. So think like eggs come with the yolk, chicken has skin, steak has fat on it, right? Like nuts and seeds have fat. If we're not taking out the fat out of our whole protein rich foods obsessively, we kind of don't even have to like really worry all that much about the fat conversation. But if you leave the fat intact in the whole food,   Michelle (08:11) Yeah.   Lily (08:16) Those foods are going to be more satiating. They fill you up, they keep you fuller for longer. They help sustain healthier blood sugar levels, and they have a number of nutrients in them that are important for our health, especially our fat-soluble vitamins. Absolutely vital that you have enough of those for fertility.   Michelle (08:30) second.   Another thing that I do notice actually with a lot of my patients, and I've seen this more recently, it doesn't always happen, but people skipping breakfast. And I wanna talk about that because I know that there's been a lot of research on intermittent fasting and it was beneficial for men and it was researched really for men. It wasn't researched as much for women.   And I just, I also know and heard that like cortisol can rise from skipping breakfast and that can throw off hormones. And I wanted to get your take on that and why it's important really to eat breakfast and have protein rich foods, especially in good healthy fats.   Lily (09:04) Yeah.   Yeah, we do have a section on intermittent fasting in the book because we're asked about it all the time. So ultimately, yeah, most of the research on intermittent fasting has been done in men. There's been a little bit of work in women and in very specific instances, which I can talk about, it can be a tool that's beneficial. But for the most part, intermittent fasting for women raises some red flags.   Primary reason is that our menstrual cycle is very sensitive to disruptions in energy intake. And not just energy intake over the whole day, but like even periods of time within the day where your body senses what we'd refer to as low energy availability. So you're not eating for certain periods of time during the day, long spans of time during the day, particularly in those who are exercising a lot.   When your body senses that there's not fuel there, the response is a reduction in your hormone levels. And so we see in women who under eat, and we even have like controlled feeding trials on this where they can measure precisely the level of caloric deficit that results in menstrual cycle disturbances. If your calorie intake dips below about 25%, so you're eating a,   quarter less food than you, your body actually needs, you see hormonal changes. Um, and within a couple of months that typically results in an issue with the menstrual cycle. Um, oftentimes it starts with like a short luteal phase or premenstrual spotting or more PMS or something like that. Um, and then ends up with ultimately complete anovulation. You stop ovulating and eventually stop cycling altogether. Um, so.   you essentially set up a situation of hypothalamic amenorrhea. So if we're restricting our food intake too low, this is going to happen. When most people do intermittent fasting, they're doing it in a way where they skip a meal. Oftentimes it is breakfast. And what we know from the research on skipping breakfast is these people are not making up the caloric deficit at their other meals. So they still over the course of the day, end up eating less food.   you couple that with the sort of mindset that most people go into intermittent fasting with. Most people who are attempting intermittent fasting are doing it with the goal of weight loss. And so there's not really an approach of, oh, I'm just gonna eat all the same amount of food in a shorter eating window. It's like, oh no, I'm going to shorten my eating window and also eat less. So the trials that have shown   Michelle (11:27) Bye.   Lily (11:29) benefits for intermittent fasting for women. And these are very small studies by the way. So, you know, take it for what it is, but these are in women who have polycystic ovarian syndrome. They were overweight or obese. And so, you know, likely have some insulin resistance going on and may benefit their hormonal profile, may actually benefit from a little bit of weight loss. It can benefit from.   reducing levels of insulin resistance. The way they implemented intermittent fasting was they consumed all of their meals between 8 a.m. And 4 p.m. They didn't skip meals and they also didn't do it in a caloric deficit They simply ate their food at an early eating window in the day and in that trial they specifically had them continue to consume the same amount of calories. Now   Michelle (12:09) Mm-hmm.   Lily (12:16) This resulted in dramatic improvement in their PCOS. You saw improvement in their insulin, their blood sugar levels, their androgens, their just the whole hormonal profile also resulted in weight loss. But these are in women who can benefit from a little bit of weight loss. They're specifically not under eating and they're also not skipping breakfast. Breakfast is a time when your body is actually expecting.   Michelle (12:35) Right.   Lily (12:38) the most amount of food. Like we have trials for women with PCOS that are not intermittent fasting trials where they test out a same diet, but a different like breakdown of when you're having your calories. So they've done like large breakfast, moderate lunch, small dinner, or the reverse, small breakfast, moderate lunch, large dinner. And when you front load your food with a greater caloric intake at breakfast, tapering down over the day, even when the calories are matched, you see greater improvement.   in their metabolic health when you're front loading your food. And so this, essentially this intermittent fasting trial kind of did the same thing. Um, by default, by stopping eating at 4 PM, you are tapering down your, you know, caloric intake fairly early in the day. That may not be realistic or achievable for a lot of people, especially if you're a working person or you have, you know, a family and they're eating dinner at like six o'clock and you're missing out. Right.   But just to say there's different ways of achieving the same thing without having to cut off your eating window so early. But the greatest importance and what I've seen the most in practice benefiting my clients' metabolic health, whether or not they're trying to conceive or pregnant or postpartum, well whatever, male or female, is getting a sufficient protein-rich breakfast in.   really sets the stage for better regulation of your appetite and hunger and fullness cues throughout the day. Less like mindless eating and overeating and just better nutrient intake as a whole. And I think any of this, any of us can very easily experiment with this, right? Notice how you feel on the days when you skip breakfast. Notice how you feel in the days when you have an imbalanced, super high carb breakfast like   bagel or cereal or oatmeal and then notice the difference on the days when you're starting your morning with like eggs or maybe like Greek yogurt or cottage cheese like or leftover dinner that has protein in it some protein rich breakfast and notice how you feel through the morning at Your appetite at lunchtime whether you get an afternoon slump It's pretty easy within a couple days to like feel the difference for this. So   Michelle (14:19) Right.   Lily (14:41) I always am like trying to bring people back to their own body. Like how do you feel when you do this? Because my experience with clients really across the board is most feel better when they're getting that balanced breakfast in versus skipping it.   Michelle (14:56) it's true. I love that you kind of get people to tune in with themselves. Like, how does this feel for you? Because ultimately, I think that that's the best experiment you can feel it from the inside out. You can really experience the feeling that it gives you. And also, Ayurvedic medicine, they always talk about Agni, which comes out, it increases, it's your own digestifier and your own digestifier is very much responsive to nature.   and when the sun comes out and during the day.   And at breakfast and at lunch, our Agni is the highest because of the way the sun is up. And during that time to take advantage of eating, because that's when our bodies are gonna be able to process and digest food the most. And we should actually taper it down towards the end of the day when the sun goes down, our digestive system goes down, our metabolism slows down, and we're ready. Our bodies are preparing for bed. And so it's very intuitive, you know, what you're saying.   Lily (15:48) Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Yeah.   Michelle (15:50) Yeah, let's talk about maybe the phases, the follicular phase and the luteal phase, anything that you can contribute. I'm sure there's just so much. So I'm going to be asking you questions where I'm sure that you can go really into detail and you're not going to be able to. But just to get like more of a general for people short   follicular phase. I know that a lot of attention is not really put on that. Most people are focusing on like luteal phase defect. as far as food, is there anything that you think about when it comes to a short follicular   Lily (16:18) I mean the follicular phase is naturally going to be shortening over time as women approach menopause. So even starting in the late 30s, you can women just start sort of prepping for ovulation like earlier, like even maybe when they're you know, towards the end of their last cycle. And so some of that may just be an age thing.   I will say, under-eating as a whole does tend to shorten the cycle length, and that would probably also carry over into the follicular phase a little bit, although we usually are focusing on the luteal phase defect, where it's getting shorter, you start having other symptoms of low progesterone levels and all of that. So I would say...   take a look at your overall caloric intake. Like are you overdoing it with the exercise and then under fueling with food as a whole? We see lower hormone levels in women who are not only under eating but specifically under eating fat. And...   Michelle (17:17) Mm-hmm.   Lily (17:18) So if that's going on, there's a possibility that your hormone levels across the board, not just progesterone, but also estrogen could be lower. I mean, we have trials where they have specifically assigned women to a low fat diet for the purpose of lowering estrogen levels because we thought maybe that would be, you know, preventative for estrogen driven breast cancers later in life, right? And it works, you put people on a low.   diet their estrogen levels plummet as well as their progesterone. So I would take a look at your macro balance are you being too restrictive on fat? Like I said since fat goes hand-in-hand with protein like other than what you're adding separate to food if you're under eating protein you're probably also under eating more likely to be under eating fat as well because they often come packaged together.   Addressing the low fat issue may also involve addressing a low protein intake as a whole. And for those who are really like aware of calories from food, you know that fat is a more concentrated source of calories. So oftentimes for people who are calorie counting and dieting, that's the nutrient that they try to eliminate the most. So I would have some awareness on that. You may want to like dial down.   the exercise a little bit as well. Typically, when we think of nutrient changes over the cycle, the luteal phase, it's a little bit mixed in the research, but generally, we expect a slight increase in calorie requirements in the luteal phase. It seems to be that the desire for more food and specific cravings are more common in those who have   hormonal issues like low progesterone levels, maybe your body's trying to like make up for it, eat a little more so we can keep that hormone production going. But if that egg was not in the best quality because it wasn't, you were undernourished during the follicular phase, you're gonna have that show up in the luteal phase as well, right? So I think it kind of comes full circle, but I would say focusing on nutrient adequacy.   Michelle (18:52) Yeah, right.   Lily (19:11) would be where I would target it. While also acknowledging the follicular phase is likely just going to get shorter over time, the closer you get to menopause. And that's not necessarily something you have to like super stress about if everything else seems to be okay.   Michelle (19:25) Another thing that I actually noticed as you were talking, it's something that I've noticed like maybe once or twice, like that there's a link for me that I've seen with vegan diets impacting a shorter follicular phase. two cases that I'm kind of like thinking in my mind. And I'm wondering if it's because you're not, you're not really getting the animal fat.   Lily (19:35) Mmm.   Yeah.   Michelle (19:45) you're not getting the same kind of protein as you would from animal protein. It's just, and there's a lot of nutrients that you're also not able to really get with a vegan diet.   Lily (19:45) and protein.   Yes, and that's definitely an area worth mentioning for sure. We have a whole chapter on vegetarian diets that goes into quite a bit of detail. So vegans in particular tend to eat fewer calories, less protein, and less fat than their omnivorous counterparts. And we do see a significantly higher rate of hypothalamic amenorrhea.   in vegetarians and vegans, likely for that reason. There also tends to be, it's not always, but there's a higher prevalence of eating disorders among that group. In a way, it kind of gives you like the perfect cover for your eating disorder. Actually, I was just doing an interview with another podcast recently where the host was talking about that being part of her history, that she did use a vegetarian diet and a vegan diet to sort of cover.   for the eating disorder. Oh, I can't have any, is it vegan? Oh no, no thanks, right? Like you could just decline food across the board because it doesn't meet whatever standards or restrictions are part of the diet. So that can be another reason where it's like, yes, there are legitimate concerns about nutrient adequacy, but also some people are doing it as a way to restrict their caloric intake as well, which.   regardless of which foods are or are not in your diet, a caloric deficit is gonna create problems. But I do see significantly higher rate of cycle issues in vegetarian and vegan clients. And this is not just my practice, not just your practice. This is like per all the documented research as well. Is that a statistically higher rate on average, even if it's not gonna affect every single person who's on such a diet.   Michelle (21:27) Yeah, I see it quite a bit. some people really take it like religiously. It's something that they really feel ethically very connected to. So depending on how people feel, and then some people just don't like the taste of meat in which I'll...   offer beef liver pills and things like that to get around that. And we talked about Oregon meats actually last time, and I loved our conversation on that. I would love to get your take again on Oregon meats and why Oregon meats are superior really. And they're so nutrient dense and supportive for overall health, fertility health,   Lily (21:44) Yeah.   Michelle (22:01) We'd love to get your thoughts on that because I thought that was such an interesting topic we spoke about.   Lily (22:03) Sure.   Yeah, so I mean, cross-culturally, there has often been an emphasis on including certain nutrient-rich foods in the diet prior to conception and during pregnancy, kind of prioritizing them for the child-bearing future parents in the tribe, male or female. And that's kind of for good reason, if you look at the micronutrient content of them.   Each organ has different nutrients that are particularly high in this organ versus that organ. Liver tends to be the most nutrient dense. There's a few exceptions for some micronutrients that are higher in like heart or spleen or kidney or some of these other organs. They certainly have their place, even if they're maybe less commonly consumed in our current Western diet. But we see...   vastly higher rates of things like higher levels of nutrients like vitamin b12, choline, iron, zinc, vitamin a certainly and liver, and many different minerals in there as well. Both the big ones like iron and zinc and some of the like minerals we need in slightly smaller amounts like selenium and whatnot copper. So   Those foods, even when eaten in fairly small quantities, kind of act as like, uh, almost like a way to fortify your diet with extra nutrients. So if anybody has ever done like a cow share, for example, where you're buying the meat from a whole animal, you can also choose to get organs, which I always do, but you get, you know, hundreds of pounds of meat, maybe from a single cow and you get one liver, right? Which might be like,   Michelle (23:35) Mm-hmm.   Lily (23:36) the biggest liver I've ever gotten was like eight pounds. Must have been a big cow. But like you you're not getting like a huge amount relative to the rest of the meat that you're getting, but by including it in your diet, it doesn't have to be every day. We're talking maybe once a week or once every other week. Having a little bit of organ meats in there really does fortify your diet with a lot of these nutrients that are in lesser quantities in muscle meat. So   B12 for example, it's like 200 times more concentrated in organ meats than it is in muscle meats. If you were to calculate out the vitamin A for liver versus muscle meats, it'd be crazy because liver is the by far the richest source of vitamin A in our diets, like bar none. So these nutrients are really vitally important to the processes of ovulation, for the formation of sperm, for the   liver and organ meats have cholesterol in them and all of our steroid hormones are built on a backbone of cholesterol. So they're giving us kind of the raw materials necessary for our fertility. So huge fan of including some organ meats every once in a while in your diet. I have to give those qualifiers because sometimes when people hear me talking about organ meats, they think that I'm eating liver like three times a day or something. And I'm like, no, maybe like once a week, but.   Michelle (24:49) Yeah.   Lily (24:49) having it as part of the diet and it often does need to be specifically something you focus on because many of us do not have the taste for including liver. It's something we have to go out of our way to find because oftentimes it's not at the regular grocery store. Like I talk about it because of its nutrient density but I also have to like you know clarify quantity and frequency of consumption. So for those who do not   want to or don't have access to or do not enjoy the flavor of eating liver or organ meats, there are yes, desiccated organ supplements on the market. And yes, I've seen those provide huge benefits for clients who aren't consuming animal foods otherwise. That and also shellfish, like oysters or clams are very nutrient dense. And sometimes I'll have vegan clients who are willing to consume those, but not organ meats, right? So whatever gets it,   gets the nutrients down the hatches, you know, whatever works.   Michelle (25:40) Yeah, for sure. And so I actually wanted to talk about two common concerns that people have with liver. They think that because it cleans out toxins, that And then also the vitamin A content, because they think about vitamin A toxicity, which is different in food versus just taking vitamin A pills. So I'd love your take on that.   Lily (26:01) Yes, so yeah, we'll cover the toxin conversation. People are often very concerned about the toxin levels in liver. If you look at the data we have on like analyzing the levels of toxins and heavy metals and other things in different parts of an animal, the liver is not particularly higher in those contaminants than other parts of the animal. So I always find it kind of weird that people want to zero in on   I'm not going to eat that because it might be higher in contaminants when it doesn't even hold true. But be the quantity of liver you're consuming relative to muscle meats. You'd probably be getting more toxins overall from the muscle meats, but also you can find a reason to make any food like evil, right? You can find a reason to avoid anything. We're not gonna eat rice because the arsenic. We're not gonna have   Michelle (26:35) Yeah, but also...   It's true.   Lily (26:49) I don't know, we're not going to have shellfish because it might have cadmium or lead, even though you don't absorb most of what's in there. We're not going to have fish because of mercury, likewise, you don't absorb most of what's in there. If you really want to take it to that level, you are going to find something wrong with every single food. With liver though, it functions more as a...   Michelle (27:06) It's true.   Lily (27:10) It's somewhat of a filter because it filters your blood, of course. It's not holding on to all the toxins, but it also transforms the toxins. But a lot of what the liver does is there's different stages of detoxification and part of what it does is attach molecules and things to the toxins to make them easier for your body to excrete.   and then they're excreted in the bile, or maybe they go through the bloodstream and are excreted through the kidneys, or maybe you sweat and you sweat it out through your skin, or maybe it grows out through your hair, but it's not holding onto the toxins. It's trying to make them less toxic so your body can excrete them through your pathways of detoxification. So I think it's silly to think of the liver as a storehouse of toxins that actually isn't really true. It is a storehouse of nutrients   Michelle (27:43) Right.   Lily (27:57) process of all the things the liver does, detoxification is just one of many, many functions. Those are highly nutrient dependent activities. So it does hold on to nutrients because you need these nutrients as cofactors for all these different liver enzymes that are actively doing so many jobs to keep you alive. So if anything the liver is a storehouse of nutrients, not toxins.   is a storehouse for vitamin A. It really is. It has more vitamin A than any other food and it is also a storehouse for a number of other nutrients as well. Whether the vitamin A and liver is particularly toxic, A, I think we have to be speaking about the quantity. As I said, I'm not recommending people consume massive quantities of liver. I'm talking three to six ounces a week, which provides   less vitamin A than the so-called tolerable upper limit. The concerns over toxicity I think are twofold. A lot of people are worried about pregnancy specifically. You have to understand the studies they use to show that an intake of vitamin A was potentially toxic to the fetus was from synthetic supplemental vitamin A.   Michelle (29:03) Right.   Lily (29:03) So you can measure the metabolites in the blood after consuming vitamin A from different sources and you do not see the spikes in the harmful metabolites of vitamin A to the same degree from whole food sources like liver as you do from isolated synthetic vitamin A supplements. That said, I still don't recommend people consume so much liver that you're exceeding the tolerable upper limit, which again, three to six ounces of liver a week is perfectly fine.   There's a caveat, if you're up in the Arctic, don't eat polar bear liver because it is ridiculously concentrated in vitamin A. You can legitimately get toxicity, but you're not getting that level of vitamin A from beef liver, chicken liver, something like that. The case studies we have on vitamin A toxicity, which by the way usually self-resolves anyways, even if it is encountered, but nonetheless. These are in people...   Michelle (29:36) Mm-hmm.   Right.   Lily (29:53) I haven't seen one documented other than there was one case study in small children who were given like four ounces of chicken liver every day. They're infants. That's too much. That's too much liver. So yeah, exactly. I'm like what? But that again in that case study that self-resolved on its own. All the other case studies I've seen   Michelle (30:04) Yeah, it's too much. It's like, how do they even eat it?   Lily (30:15) Um, we're either there's two I can think of that were polar bear liver. I've never seen one from chicken or beef liver. All the rest of the case studies on vitamin A toxicity are synthetic supplemental vitamin A, and they're usually people taking mega doses, like hundreds of thousands of I use a vitamin A per day daily for years, which if you equate that to liver would be like. Multiple pounds of liver per day, every single day for years, like   Michelle (30:37) That's crazy. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.   Lily (30:39) something that you simply don't see in clinical practice. So I do recommend that people do keep an eye on their total vitamin A intake if they're big fans of liver or if they're doing liver capsules. And particularly if you're also taking like a multivitamin or a prenatal vitamin that has that preformed vitamin A, we don't wanna go crazy overboard.   I used to never need to give this caveat, but now that everybody's talking about organ needs and so many people are supplementing, I have had people come in where they're taking like a multi-organ supplement, a liver, desiccated liver supplement, and they're taking like the highest potency prenatal on the market that already has a decent amount of vitamin A. And I'm like, okay, well, we can probably cool it on some of these. Like the risk of overtly something terrible happening is quite slim.   Michelle (31:19) Right. Somewhere.   Lily (31:25) But I do think we're at a point where I'm like, okay, if you're consuming more than about the equivalent of like six ounces of liver per week, you just, your body simply doesn't need that much. And so if you have a case like that where they're taking in liver in many different forms plus like a high potency multivitamin, or even if they're taking, you know, a separate   all that much all on top of it. I still out of an abundance of caution keep my recommended intake below the tolerable upper limit. Even if you know that level it's set very conservatively but again from the most conservative angle I try to keep it under the tolerable upper limit just to be safe.   Michelle (32:03) Yes. And then also, yeah, I mean, a lot of this is obviously common sense because like, people aren't going to eat like ridiculous amounts or shouldn't, you know, eat ridiculous amounts of anything. So it's just a matter of really balancing things out. As far as beef versus chicken liver, what are your thoughts on that?   Lily (32:20) I mean, both are nutrient dense. There's a handful of things that may be higher in chicken liver off the top of my head without looking at a nutrient analysis. And I'm pretty sure I have a table of this in my article on liver and organ meats on my website. But off the top of my head, chicken liver is higher in folate. It's a little higher in iron. Beef liver is a little higher in...   vitamin A, for example. So you'll see slight differences in the nutritional profile. They're both ridiculously nutrient dense. You will certainly have differences in the flavor. So the liver from larger animals has a richer flavor than the liver from smaller animals like chickens. So, and also the texture is different. The liver from beef is a little more tough.   versus the liver from chicken tends to be very tender. So if somebody's brand new to consuming liver, I'm probably gonna have them opt for something like chicken liver and maybe try beef liver a little later. Some of it has to do with how you cook it too. If you look at like traditional recipes for cooking liver, it's usually kind of marinated or soaked in something for a while ahead of time that eases the flavor a bit. And then it is...   pan-fried at a kind of slightly lower temp and for a short period of time. You're not overcooking it. The longer you cook it, the more that kind of metallic iron flavor comes out and the tougher that it gets. So that's my only caveat there. I think chicken liver is an easier gateway into consuming liver than beef. But you could see what...   Michelle (33:36) Bye.   Lily (33:50) what you like. You can also do, you mentioned talking about other organ meats. So heart is a very, a much more mild flavor than liver. I mean, liver has a stronger, more metallic kind of flavor. So you can also do heart. Chicken hearts are like a delicacy in many countries and South America, they're often like skewered and grilled over the fire. You can even do like I have a recipe for Thai chili beef heart skewers on my website. Those can be like   It's much larger, so it has to be sliced up and everything, but when it's marinated, I mean, it's like a more flavorful steak. Heart is a very lean meat because it's a muscle, so it really has more of a steak kind of texture. You can slow cook it. We have like a beef heart stew recipe in real food for fertility that you could make. So that's an easier one for people to try.   Michelle (34:33) Mm-hmm.   Lily (34:34) even though the nutritional profile is a little different. Like there's no concerns about the vitamin A and in beef heart, for example, but it's really rich in iron, it's rich in CoQ10, it's rich in zinc, B12, many other things. It's like a slightly more robust, very lean muscle meat kind of a flavor.   Michelle (34:39) Bye.   of course I could pick your brain for hours because you're just so well fed for information. I really enjoy talking to you. But I know that you have to go. And I would love for you to share with the listeners how they can find you and how they can find food for fertility.   And basically, do you work with people online or do you offer any?   Lily (35:10) I'm not taking one-on-one clients anymore, but I do have referrals to the practitioners I train via the Institute for prenatal nutrition, many of which also specialize in fertility as well. But yeah, you can find me on my website, lillynicholsrdn.com. As I mentioned, there's, you know, when I refer to articles, those are all on my website. There's no paywall on my website. So just click the blog tab. You can search in the search bar for whatever search terms there are.   hundreds of articles up there. So definitely take advantage of that free resource. As for my books, you can find those on my site as well. Just go to the Books tab. Real Food for Fertility has its own website, real You can download the first chapter for free from that site and also check out the book on Amazon. And as far as social media, you can find me at   Lily Nichols RDN over on Instagram. That's usually where I am. I'm also on the other platforms. I just don't spend a whole lot of my time on social media as a whole these days.   Michelle (36:08) Awesome. Well, Lily, it was such a pleasure talking to you. I love all of the information you shared, and I know that it's going to be so valuable. And you guys got to check out the book. It's amazing, Real Food for Fertility. Thank you so for coming on today.   Lily (36:22) Thank you for having me.

Annina Burns is a Registered Dietitian with a PhD from the University of Oxford in the United Kingdom where she was a Marshall Scholar. Annina was the first PhD/RD in America to be certified in functional medicine, she was the Associate Director for Michelle Obama’s Let’s Move Childhood Obesity Prevention Initiative at the White House and has a passion for improving the health of families.  

 

Website: 

http://www.simplina.com

Social Media: 

https://www.instagram.com/simplinafertility/

https://www.facebook.com/simplinafertility/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFbw2XwmiSJ_rE5RQ0Il64g

https://www.linkedin.com/company/simplina

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

The fertility overwhelm is real!  With so much information, so many restrictions, and so many let downs, it’s not surprising that many going through the fertility journey find it traumatic!  I bring this topic up in response to what I’m hearing from my patients and online clients, and I also bring the goods to add to your toolbox!  Join me on today’s episode to find out how you can take the edge off from the fertility overwhelm!

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

In this episode, I go over a key question that I see many of my patients face which is wanting to know when it is time to pivot their plans on their fertility journey.  This can look like changing doctors, getting a second opinion, looking into further testing, or choosing embryo donor.  Be sure to tune in as I address how pivoting on your journey could be just what you need to change your outcome!

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Dr. Aumatma is a double board-certified Naturopathic Doctor & Endocrinologist, in  practice for close to 15 years. She specializes in fertility and is the best-selling author of two books: "Fertility Secrets: What Your Doctor Didn't Tell You About Baby-Making” and “(In)Fertility: Struggles, Secrets, & Successes” Dr. Aumatma was awarded the “Best Naturopathic Medicine Doctor″ award locally in 2015 & 2020, and recognized as a top “Women In Medicine” Doctor in 2020 & 2021. 

In addition to supporting couples through individualized care in person and long-distance, Dr Aumatma also trains practitioners who want to specialize in fertility. She has been featured as the holistic fertility expert on ABC, FOX, CBS, KTLA, MindBodyGreen, The Bump, etc., along with being interviewed for countless podcasts on topics of fertility, pregnancy, and postpartum health.

 

https://www.holisticfertilityinstitute.com

https://www.facebook.com/DrAumatmaNd/

https://www.instagram.com/holistic_fertility_doctor/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/aushah

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Jaclyn Downs is a functional nutrigenomics practitioner that specializes in fertility optimization. Rather than forcing hormones to be in specific levels to achieve pregnancy, Jaclyn uses genetics, functional lab testing, and a very in depth case history to identify and address root causes of imbalance. She then uses this info to create personalized protocols for each individual. In addition to her own clients, she also offers practitioner consults to review their patients' genetic reports to identify potential genetic weaknesses in things like antioxidant production, phase 1 and 2 liver detox pathways, improperly used iron, and issues with proper fat utilization, all of which are contributing factors to inflammation and oxidative stress that derails fertility. 

 

JaclynDowns.com

Instagram: @FunctionalFertilitySolutions

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FunctionalFertilitySolutions

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Monica Cox is a top Functional Fertility Coach and Infertility Warrior. She helps women get to the bottom of their fertility issues, using science-based functional medicine to help increase their chances of getting and staying pregnant. She dealt with years of unexplained infertility, failed IVF's & survived several miscarriages before becoming an IVF mom & getting pregnant natural even though the doctors said there was nothing she could do to improve her situation. Author of the best-selling journals Boost Your Embryos, Baby & Me, and Fertility Food and host of the highly popular podcast Finding Fertility, Monica is dedicated to inspiring women to look beyond their infertility diagnosis and take control of their health through clean eating and simplifying their lifestyle. Her signature online program, The Fertility Formula & personal Fertility Focused Coaching, has helped woman increase their chances of creating the family of their dreams.

 

www.findingfertility.co

IG: https://www.instagram.com/findingfertility/

TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@findingfertility?source=h5_m

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Dr. Andrea Vidali is a world-renowned endometriosis surgeon, reproductive immunologist and reproductive endocrinologist who specializes in infertility, implantation failure and pregnancy loss. He is the principal clinician-scientist of Braverman Reproductive Immunology, bringing 20+ years as a leading authority in reproductive immunology along with extensive experience in minimally invasive and robotic surgery. As CEO and founder of Pregmune –– the first-ever immunology-based testing platform that’s revolutionizing the treatment of reproductive failure –– Dr. Vidali is dedicated to understanding and treating often-overlooked causes of infertility and debunking the overused term, ‘unexplained infertility.’ He’s also the co-owner and co-founder of The Endometriosis Summit, which connects patients and practitioners in the field of endometriosis.

https://pregmune.com/wholesome/

https://www.preventmiscarriage.com

https://www.instagram.com/endometriosis_surgeon/

https://www.facebook.com/pregmune/

 

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

 

On today’s episode, I share how a woman’s menstrual cycle can reflect the nature of yin and yang.  This is a fascinating topic that I was amazed to learn when I began specializing in fertility health.

 

Being able to observe these types of patterns in your cycle can help tremendously when trying to conceive as it can alert you to subtle imbalances and when to reach out to a doctor. 

 

Note: always speak to a qualified acupuncturist about herbs and moxa.  A great way to find a local acupuncturist who specializes in fertility is searching for an ABORM certified practitioner which can be found here: https://aborm.org

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewholesomelotusfertility/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Can sounds impact your body’s healing ability?  Join me while I cover some interesting experiments (including one that I did with my daughter!) as well as other fascinating studies on the power of sound vibration on living things. 

 

Book: The Messages in the water by Masaru Emoto: https://amzn.to/3lPgrzS

 

Study on sound of Om: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3099099/

 

Studies on Binaural beats:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4428073/#B1

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewholesomelotusfertility/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus

In today’s episode I wanted to share just how powerful affirmations have been on my life – as an example of how they can work!  Affirmations have the potential to alter your life, but there are a few ways to amplify and optimize their effectiveness!  I will be sharing four of my favorite tricks to ignite the power of your affirmations!

 

Get your fertility e-book here: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/fertilityebook

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

  Josephine Atluri is an author, certified life coach and an expert in meditation and mindfulness. A graduate of the University of Chicago, Josephine followed her passion for total wellness and has helped thousands of people overcome adversity to find joy. She supports and empowers organizations and individuals through her wellness retreats, classes and written work. Plus, her experience creating her modern day family of seven children via In Vitro fertilization, international adoption and surrogacy inspires her work as a highly sought-after fertility, pregnancy, and parenting mindfulness coach. Josephine hosts a popular podcast, “Responding to Life: Talking Health, Fertility, & Parenthood,” where she interviews guests on their inspiring responses to life’s challenges. Her parenting mindfulness expertise and fertility advocacy work has been featured in the Huffington Post, Motherly, MindBodyGreen, The Bump, Prevention, Well+Good, and Woman’s Day. Josephine is the author of the books, “Mindfulness Journal for Parents” and “5 Minute Mindfulness for Pregnancy.” She also sits on the board of the nonprofit, Shero’s Rise, an organization dedicated to uplifting girls in underserved communities.   Website & Social media links (Facebook, instagram, twitter) Website: www.jatluri.com Instagram: @josephineratluri @respondingtolifepodcast Url: https://www.instagram.com/josephineratluri/ YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/3kIxDHQ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephine-atluri-0aaa32129   Information on Josephine’s retreat can be found here: https://www.jatluri.com/retreat-1 use coupon code LOTUS to get a discount!   SummaryJosephine shares her background in fertility mindfulness and meditation and how she got into the work. She discusses her own infertility journey, including failed IVF cycles, the loss of twins, and the decision to pursue international adoption and surrogacy. Josephine explains the concept of mindfulness as awareness coupled with curiosity and compassion. She emphasizes the importance of being present and using breathing techniques as a tool for reducing stress and finding calm. Josephine also talks about her books on mindfulness during pregnancy and parenthood and her retreats for women.     Takeaways

• Fertility mindfulness and meditation can provide coping strategies and overall wellness care for individuals trying to build their families.
• Mindfulness is a lifestyle that involves being aware of oneself and the world, and it can lead to reduced stress, better sleep, improved immunity, and better relationships.
• Breathing techniques are a powerful tool for moving from a state of stress to a state of calm, and they can be practiced anywhere and anytime.
• Mindfulness can help individuals navigate the challenges and anxieties of pregnancy and parenthood, and it can be incorporated into daily life through various modalities.
• Being present and practicing mindfulness can lead to mental clarity, emotional freedom, and a deeper connection with oneself and the present moment.

  For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com   Click here to find out how to get the first chapter of "The Way of Fertility" for free.   The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/   Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility   Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/     Transcript:   Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Josephine.   Jo (00:02) Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be speaking with you today.   Michelle (00:06) Me too, so I'd love for you to start out with giving us your background and how you got into the work that you're doing.   Jo (00:13) Yeah, so I am specializing in fertility mindfulness and meditation, and I was working in healthcare upon returning back to work many years ago. And I brought my consulting background with my healthcare background and went into meditation, but I was using it for more corporate wellness. And then I realized that,   when I was going through my own infertility journey that I could have really used these tools. And that's when I decided to pivot and really focus on providing mindfulness and overall wellness care for people who are trying to build their modern day families. I remember very well just feeling really stressed out and not having coping strategies. And so that's my...   biggest aim with the fertility mindfulness work that I do.   Michelle (01:15) And then if you don't mind actually sharing your own journey   Jo (01:19) Yeah, no, absolutely. It's actually started, it's like the 20th anniversary of when we first did our IVF cycle, feels like forever ago, which it is. And we knew we had to go straight into that because of healthcare issues, I mean health issues. And we went into it pretty naively because we were in our 20s and I thought that because...   of our age that it would happen pretty quickly. And it didn't. We went through a few infertility clinics and it didn't work out. Many failed cycles. We did end up getting pregnant with twins only to lose them at 17 weeks. And that's when we decided to pivot into international adoption. We always had that in our back pocket as another path to parenthood for us.   Michelle (02:10) Sorry.   Jo (02:18) given our history and so we pivoted there and then we were able to adopt our first son who's now 17. We adopted him from Kazakhstan and that was quite an experience. Then once he was home we decided to give IVF one more try. We switched to a third clinic and we became pregnant again. They threw the kitchen sink at me as the medical term is sometimes used.   and I was able to deliver the twin successfully. And through that cycle, we actually were able to freeze a number of embryos and they weren't doing any of the many tests that they are doing these days back then. And so we kept them on ice because of the sort of the traumatic experience from the loss and then having to be on bed rest and all of this. I didn't.   think that I could carry again. And so we decided to just sort of keep the embryos on ice until we could figure out what to do. And it wasn't until many years later that we decided to pursue the option of surrogacy. It wasn't an option for us to begin with because of the prohibitive costs. And so we worked with an amazing surrogate and she delivered our second set of twins.   Michelle (03:34) Mm -hmm.   Jo (03:47) boys, our first ones are boy -girl, and then we had a couple more embryos left and many years later we decided to give them one last chance or go through this process one more time and worked with a different surrogate who was also as equally as amazing and then we had our girl twins, so we have one of each kind.   Michelle (04:13) Oh, wow.   Jo (04:13) And that's how we created what I call our modern day family of seven kids through adoption, surrogacy, and IVF. Mom's story.   Michelle (04:21) Wow, that's such a story. And that's why I wanted to go over it because what's interesting is that it has so many different ways to parenthood in one. You know, there's so many different ways to do it. And a lot of times people are afraid of choosing certain ways. But then ultimately, I always find out when talking to people that they don't regard a thing, everything happened for a reason and that connected with them to their child and however way that came about.   Jo (04:30) Yes.   Michelle (04:49) So I love hearing stories like that just because I mean, it's amazing, like just human life and the way your path leads you that you don't initially expect it to lead you and then you   up having blessings coming in the way that they want to come.   Jo (05:07) Exactly. Yes, it's definitely not what we expected, but I totally believe in how things are supposed to just happen that way. It's not to say that it was not a very tough journey and a lot of lessons learned. And I do make a lot of comparisons in articles and things like that about the difference between IBF and adoption and surrogacy. There certainly is a lot of overlap.   in many levels to it, but yeah, definitely was a learning experience. And in all of those different paths to parenthood, definitely could have used fertility mindfulness in all of it.   Michelle (05:48) Yes. Yeah. So, I'm totally with you because I think what happens is a lot of times when people are going through this or couples are going through this, they're just, they're figuring it out. They're trying to map out and like figure out how to navigate it. So I think that just by itself could be so overwhelming. And then they're looking at the diet, they're looking at the supplements, they're looking at like what kind of other treatments they can do or fertility clinics. And so all the sort of check boxes, but...   So often the one thing that is so pivotal and that is often missed is the mindset, like in how people feel and cope with it, because ultimately it's not even about, I mean, a lot of times people will look at the mindset in order to have that as an avenue to help boost fertility. However, all of that aside, it's just so important to take care of yourself at a time that.   of so much confusion and so many different thoughts, opinions, and it could be so overwhelming. And that's the time that mindfulness I know as a meditator myself, like just the impact of what it can do to your mind and how it shifted and changed me. And I know that when I speak to other people who meditate, that it can really, it just changes your life in so many ways. It consolidates you. It makes the, it's almost like the static.   die down so that you're much more sharp and you're in tune with yourself and your own inner intelligence and it connects you. So I really think that there's so much power in that. And then also, I think often people think of mindfulness as just meditation. However, I'm sure as you know, like,   is amazing, but it also teaches you to be mindful in your life actively, like in real time. So I'd love for you to.   talk about mindfulness, what it is and how you can really implement it in your life and why a person hearing this should really consider doing that.   Jo (07:53) Yeah, no, I mean, I agree totally with everything that you were mentioning. And the way I like to describe mindfulness in just a very simple way is to bring it down to awareness. So it is awareness coupled with a gentle curiosity and compassion to oneself in the process. And so awareness can be anything from being in tune with what's happening to you.   mentally, emotionally, physically, the world around you, as well as your interactions with other people. So like you said, you know, it can trickle out into all parts of your life. And in fact, when I describe mindfulness, I call it a lifestyle, not just a one -off thing that you try to squeeze into your day via a meditation for like five minutes or something.   If you're able to tune into this awareness of yourself and the world around you, then it can really impact all the different buckets of your life and lead to things like reduced stress and better sleep, improved immunity, and better relationships with your partner, your kids, your coworkers, different things like that, because you're really tuning in.   to how you're feeling and when you're able to do that, you're able to respond to life versus being reactionary, which so many of us do. And so that, when you think about all of those benefits, it can really impact your fertility as well, your whole fertility journey as well, as well as way beyond once you...   are able to move past that and go into different facets of your life. And so one of the biggest tools that I like to bring mention to people is breathing techniques. And like you mentioned, a lot of times a misconception is that meditation is equivalent to mindfulness and that's it. But there are so many different modalities of mindfulness that can cater to many different types of needs and abilities.   and you're not just tied to meditation. I know a lot of people as they're starting out get really discouraged because they think, well, I can't sit for more than two minutes without having thoughts in my mind. And that's another whole misconception is because you're not supposed to really complete your mind, rid your mind of thoughts. It's really just the interaction of those thoughts. But going back to this idea of different modalities of mindfulness, you can do...   Michelle (10:28) Yeah.   Jo (10:42) different things like journaling, affirmations, you can do walking meditations, eyes open meditations, and the one that I brought up were breathing techniques. And the reason that I love, I bring this up when it comes to fertility meditations is because you can bring it with you on the go. So, you know, whenever you're at the nurse's clinic, getting your blood drawn, or if you're getting a scan, or if you're waiting for your doctor to speak about your next round, different things like that.   your breath is always with you and that's why it's a super powerful tool. And it's also powerful because it can move you from a state of stress, a state of fight or flight, into your parasympathetic nervous system, which is your rest and digest and brings you back to this baseline of calm. And all you really have to do is just start to notice your breath and...   make it more intentional by slowing it down. You can count, you can do, you can manipulate your breath in so many different ways. But if you're able to just slow it down and make it more intentional, then you're bringing yourself back into this state of calm. And it's super helpful when you're getting really worked up in any of these infertility appointments that can cause your stress, your cortisol levels to just skyrocket, right? So that's why that's my number one go to.   in general, but especially for people who are in the midst of their fertility journey because it's something you can pull out whenever you need.   Michelle (12:14) Yeah, and I love that you mentioned that because a lot of my patients will say sometimes they'll go to the doctor's office and they really do have like a legitimate anxiety and they feel it in their body. And it brings them to a state of such anxiety that they go blank. They forget what they wanted to ask, which I always say, just write down the questions beforehand if you can, but they'll go blank on, and sometimes even if...   they're not fully on board with what the doctor says. They'll just, they, you know, they won't be able to respond with clarity. When you do get into the breath, it really helps that mental clarity, which I feel like, especially when you're on the fertility journey, you need it more than ever.   Jo (12:57) Yes, no, absolutely. That's a great point about, um, about having clarity and asking questions because I can raise my hand to having that experience. I'll have all of these questions, all of these thoughts running through my head and then I'll meet with the doctor or the nurse and they'll say something. And then all of a sudden my mind's in a tangent and I'm not present. And I think about all of the things that maybe that I claim that I did wrong because a lot of us.   you know, blame ourselves during this journey at one point or another, or I start to project into the future thinking about like, okay, now here's my calendar, right? We're all tied to this calendar. I'm going to have to do this, this X, Y, Z. And you're just, you're not even there. And you walk out of that appointment, not having answered your questions and not having clarity about your next steps because you just weren't present. And that's the other thing about mindfulness is that when you're aware, when you're in tune with,   yourself and your surroundings, that brings you into the present moment. Because you're not thinking about how you were feeling before. You're thinking, okay, I'm tuning in right now. How's my body feeling? How am I feeling emotionally? What kind of mental space am I in? How am I interacting with this person? And that's all in the present moment. And when you take that pause to be able to just take stock of yourself and your situation,   you really can have that moment of clarity. But if you're going backwards, you're going forward, you don't have that clarity. You're just everywhere else but the present moment. And so that's another huge benefit of practicing mindfulness, is that you're able to really tune in and be present. And just a side note to this is that you can practice it in meditations, you can practice it in journaling.   And the more that you're able to practice even just tiny little moments throughout the day and over time, it's just more about consistency. The better able you're, you can pull towards that like present moment awareness during moments like this with the doctor or the nurse because you've practiced it and you've created that neural pathway in your brain to be able to, to pull into the present moment, right? Because your brain's a muscle and your, your,   just like you're exercising it. You're exercising it to be in the moment. So that's the beauty of consistency. It's more about trying to work that muscle every day, work that ability to be present and mindful and aware versus having to like work it out for an hour. If you could do it for a couple minutes a day, it's totally to your benefit in all aspects of your life.   Michelle (15:46) And also I'll mention this is being present allows you for mental breaks from everything too, because when you're thinking about the future, you're thinking about the past, you're not being present. And when your mind is constantly on something that is worrisome to you, then again, you're not being in the present moment. When you can train yourself to be in that present moment, you actually allow yourself to come up for air and you're able to just lose yourself in the moment when you're.   having a moment of going out or doing something that you could take a break from everything mentally, that's gonna give you more energy when you come back to all of the different challenges that you're facing. And I think that that is so important. It's kind of like filling your tank. it is this level of emotional freedom that does happen.   simultaneously when you are present. And I think about a lot of what the ancients always used to refer to as liberation of the self. And liberation of the self is really just like, we are so caught up in identifications, thoughts. This is just the human condition. So this isn't something to be like, we all have this, you know, it's just part of our human condition is that we can get very caught up in our mind movies.   And our projections, our fears, most of the fears that we have actually don't really come into fruition. And we have a negative bias, which is really there to protect us from like anything dangerous. And so our mind does tend to go there. And this helps. And they've talked about it throughout history, you know, through centuries, all these ancient teachings about liberation of the self.   And liberation of the self simply means is just being able to like fully immersed, be immersed in the present moment, which is the only real moment. It's the only moment that has life force because everything else is an illusion. It's not truly happening in the now and isn't fully alive in this present moment. and I also look at awareness and I think to myself, awareness by itself, this is, uh, I think science needs to catch up to it. And I think that in some ways it,   It does. If you think about Qigong or even yoga where you were like really present with your body, there's life force that is inherent in awareness itself. So when you start to focus on areas of your body that feel stuck, you can actually open it. I felt it literally opening in my body as I brought awareness. So it almost like areas that feel stuck are kind of like devoid of consciousness.   in our body and ourselves and awareness opens that up because it just awakens you to this aliveness that can only happen in the now. That's the biggest condition about it.   Jo (18:39) Yeah, no, absolutely. Great points.   Michelle (18:42) definitely fascinating. So talk about like, if somebody is really not familiar with this and really new, and is also like how I used to be, I used to work in the city in New York City, and it was very much in the corporate world. And this is like before I got into meditation. And   you almost get so stuck in like the project, the demand, whatever you need to do. you know, I don't really believe in a type A personality. I know that people talk about that a lot. I think that you can wear it, but you could choose to wear whatever you want. You could choose to like, go into the frequency of type B or whatever it is that you want to be. And we get to decide it's the identifications, but.   I was at the time identified with a very type A personality. And now I would say, I wouldn't even say B, like I'm more free because of the mindfulness. So for somebody who is not familiar with how to get themselves into that parasympathetic, and they're so used to being in the frequency of do, do, do, and like, let's get things done. Let's run after it, you know, that kind of thing. What's an easy way to...   get back in tune with yourself and ease yourself into the present moment.   Jo (20:02) Yeah, no, that is a great question. I think that is a function of society, whether you identify with a type A or not. It's just that we're driven to produce and to be busy, and that's a marker of success, especially in the United States. So to try to pivot into this other type of living, this other type of thinking and doing,   It has to just be a little bit, it won't be as intuitive, right? So you kind of just have to set yourself up and your environment for success. So it's not really a matter of habits. A lot of research has shown it's more how you set up your environment that will be a indicator of success for yourself. So what I mean by that is, let's say you decide to want to try the meditation.   So then you would figure out when in your day is really realistic. And this is kind of the process that I go through with clients. So we do like this mindfulness audit, I call it. And so you'd simply say, okay, well, I'm a morning person or I'm a night person. And I'm not going to try and get you to do something in the morning when you're really not typically productive then. It just doesn't make sense. It's rather than trying to fight what your existing systems are, we're trying to work with it.   So if you're a night person, then we would figure out, all right, well then how about we tie it to something, this act of mindfulness that you'll start to practice with something you already consistently do so that way you're stacking it onto a habit that has proven to be very successful for you that you just already do. So for example, that would be, I always bring up the example of brushing your teeth. So if you're already doing that at night,   than now just pairing it with the mindfulness activity. So you can choose journaling, doing a gratitude list or practice, doing a mindful stretch like yoga for a few minutes, you can meditate. I mean, as I mentioned, so many different modalities. You just pick one and try it out for maybe try it out for a week and see how it works for you and then try a different one. But the consistency here is that you're doing it always.   before or after you brush your teeth for X amount of minutes. And it's more about the practice of doing it. And so being aware in the moment and trying to be very gentle and compassionate to yourself about the experience. So not walking in with these expectations of you need to accomplish X, Y, Z in order for it to be a success. Because if you do that, then you kind of set yourself up for failure because you may or may not meet.   those goals and then you get down on yourself and it becomes this negative cycle. Just sort of walking in without any expectations aside from the fact that you're going to be able to, that you will set aside the time, the X minutes to do it and then it's done and that's it. So whatever happens during that, during those minutes is just left for you to really experience in the present moment.   That's a huge piece of mindfulness is just having that gentle compassion and that curiosity of like, well, what are the possibilities? Like what can actually happen? I don't know. And we'll see, right? Every day is different. We wake up different every day. I mean, every moment or hour, we have a new experience for ourselves and a new sort of frame of mind that we're operating from. So that's how I, in a nutshell, kind of work with someone or suggest in my articles and books.   how they can get started if this isn't something they've ever dabbled in before and it can feel really overwhelming to start a new habit like this, especially if it doesn't feel, if it feels like the opposite of how you normally operate in life. And then I just like to infuse little mantras for myself or just little reminders. And so for this, especially for a type A personality, I would say, I am focused on...   being versus doing. And so I don't need to accomplish like a ton of things during this moment. I just need to be here. And so I like little reminders like that, but you know, whatever works for you, especially as you're going through this, you might be aware of things that can give you success. So I would always try and infuse that as well into this new practice.   Michelle (24:40) And I love that you said in this moment, because I think that when you give yourself permission, even if it feels very strange for you to be in a different state of mind, if you just tell yourself for this moment, I'm going to give myself permission be present just for this moment, then it doesn't feel as overwhelming. And it doesn't feel like you have to change everything in your life.   It's just for this moment to give yourself that mental break. And then your mind eases into that state. And then possibly that state of more ease can start to come into different parts of your life. But I think that is such a good point. You know, just giving yourself that permission and those affirmations or those words can make such a difference. And it sounds so simplistic. And I find that the simplistic things are the most powerful.   and the most overlooked for their power.   Jo (25:35) Yeah, but also can be the hardest because I think we overcomplicate things and something simple doesn't feel right. It feels I'm missing something here. I'm not doing this properly. And that's where the idea of just being and walking in without so many expectations.   Michelle (25:47) Right.   unfamiliar.   Jo (25:59) and just being curious and compassionate with yourself is that's why those are really big pieces of the definition of mindfulness.   Michelle (26:08) sure. And then another thing that I do actually want to talk about is the deterrence that come up in the mind while you're sitting in mindfulness. And so that's kind of the difficult aspect of being still is that you're going to become aware of what's happening in the background of your mind that you typically are not aware of because you're so distracted by the external noise. So that when that does come   lot of Buddhists,   teachers, they teach that we have these deterrents, we have these, what do they call disturbances that come up in the mind. One of those disturbances, well, one big part is our thoughts and the thoughts that come up. And those thoughts can be meditation is not for me. I personally see that to be a disturbance and it'll stop a lot of people from moving forward.   Jo (27:02) that's true. That goes back to that myth of the fact that we're not supposed to have thoughts or disturbances, especially when we're meditating, that our mind should be clear. And that's just not the case because we have between 60 ,000, 80 ,000 thoughts a day. The way I like to kind of describe it to my clients and my books is that it's more about your interaction with your thoughts.   because then if you think about it, you'll take that process back out with you into life. So for example, you're sitting for, let's say you're sitting for two minutes in meditation, a thought pops up. Now it's up to you to figure out, well, how am I going to move on from this? How am I going to respond to this? And there are many tricks, I mean, tricks. There are many techniques.   like labeling, like, oh, that was a sensation, or oh, that was a criticism, or that was a to -do list. You label it. For some people, labeling makes them feel better, and they're able to move on. Some people are more visual. They have a thought. They need to imagine putting it in a cloud, pushing it away, or putting it on a leaf, on a body of water, pushing it away. Some people just need verbal sort of cues. And so instead of,   that visual, they can just tell themselves almost like a mantra. I acknowledge that thought. I will get back to it after this and then return back to their breath. Right? So there are many different ways you kind of need to figure out and try as well, which one works for you. But the idea here is you're having an interaction with a disturbance. And that is what happens to us every minute of our life outside of this.   Michelle (28:32) Mm -hmm.   Yeah.   Jo (28:51) Mindfulness practice right so you're at work You're busy doing what you need to do and a text pops up. There's that disturbance so now now that you've practiced this in your mindfulness habit of How do I deal with something that pops up like a thought or disturbance? Now you're able to practice it in quote -unquote real life because you've done it in your mindfulness practice and so now you kind of can your mind can go back to that moment of   Well, I was somewhat calm. I was getting into a calmer state and I recognized it and I said, okay, I'll get back to you later. I'm still doing something and you get back to what you're doing. You take a deep breath. You say that to yourself and you go back to whatever it is you were doing with work. And so that's how mindfulness can really benefit us when we're practicing it into applying it into outside of that moment of practice.   into the rest of our lives. And that's why I call mindfulness a lifestyle, because if you're able to practice it there, you're able to do it with all the millions of distractions that we get throughout the day. And so that's why I think it's just so beneficial to have those interactions with the thoughts and I welcome them versus getting worried about having them and telling myself that I'm not good at meditation because in the back of my mind, I'm reminding myself.   I'm practicing this for life and this will serve me outside of this moment.   Michelle (30:24) I love the techniques that you mentioned because one thing that I noticed is they're all very neutral. So it's just kind of like, oh, that's interesting. A thought, well, I'm planning my day. You know, something that kind of comes and you're labeling it like this is planning. This is that labeling in this   is just more like, oh, that's that. And let me go back to the breath. So when you're looking at it neutrally, you're not getting sucked in emotionally. It's not.   something that really takes too much of your energy is just observing and seeing. And also when you're neutral, not too attached to that thought. So I love that.   Jo (31:03) Yeah, that goes back to that whole facet of mindfulness, of compassion, right? But also curiosity, because you're curious as to, oh, well, why did this pop up in my mind? Okay, clearly my mind wants me to remember this, but I'll be kind to myself. This is not a huge deal. I'll just get back to you. I'll get back to you later.   Michelle (31:26) Yeah, totally. And so you mentioned your book. So talk to us about your books and how it can help, because it sounds like you have a lot of this information in your books.   Jo (31:38) Yeah, so I have two mindfulness books. One is for when you're already pregnant and infusing mindfulness into your pregnancy. And so it has examples of different mindfulness modalities that you can do throughout the pregnancy. So whether that's yoga, journaling, gratitude practice, meditation, all those different things that you can try. So that way it really sets you up.   for your pregnancy and your delivery, but then because you've practiced it during your pregnancy, you can take it with you into your parenthood. And that's actually the second book is a mindfulness journal for parents. I find I first wrote the parenting book and then, and then I realized, you know what? It's hard to incorporate new things when you're in the midst of trying to be a new parent or trying to pick up a new skill when you're already.   well into parenthood, it would be so much better if we can introduce this in pregnancy because then you've really worked on these different modalities and you've gotten them under your belt, gotten a taste of them and you can bring it with you hopefully once that fourth trimester sort of is past you and then you're able to use those tools you learned in pregnancy. But yeah, so I try to use those because as in many different parts of our life,   we can benefit from tuning in and being aware as we discussed.   Michelle (33:10) I will say, in working with a lot of fertility, when people do get pregnant, I feel like that book would really be beneficial because a lot of times people have pregnancy after loss or even pregnancy after the fertility journey could be a really anxious time. So one of the things I really work with a lot of my patients on is mindfulness, especially during that time during the pregnancy, because every test, every scan,   Jo (33:26) Yeah.   Michelle (33:36) could bring up so much anxiety and just go into the doctor's office. So I think that especially during that time, it could really be so beneficial to learn that.   Jo (33:46) Yeah, now that's totally a great point. I did put a page or two referring to that, the trauma that you experience from, if you're coming from a background of infertility, because you're right, every little thing can be a trigger. And now that you're pregnant, it just feels super stressful. I mean, that's how I felt after having experienced that loss and it just wasn't a pleasant.   pregnancy for me, which is why I just was honest with myself and said I can't do any more pregnancies. It just took its mental toll on me, but absolutely, you're definitely more triggered by a lot of things that other people may not even think of as something that could trigger you.   Michelle (34:26) Yeah.   Yeah, for sure. No doubt. So for people listening to this that would like to learn more about you, listen to your podcasts or find your books, how can they reach you?   Jo (34:47) Yeah, thank you for that. So my website is J -A -T -L -U -R -I .com and on there you'll find a link to my podcast which is called Responding to Life, Talking Health, Fertility, and Parenthood where I'm gonna have Michelle speaking on as well as links to my books, both books which actually you can purchase on Amazon or Barnes and Noble, wherever. And I also do...   retreats just for women in general. It doesn't matter if you're in the infertility process or not. My next one is November 8th through 11th in Palm Springs. And yeah, it's so great. And I did one last year in the same area. And it was really just like this magical and therapeutic moment. It's called rest and renewal because we all need it. And lastly, you can find me on Instagram.   Michelle (35:27) That sounds amazing. I love Palm Springs.   Yes.   Jo (35:44) at Josephine R. Atlery and I share a bunch of mindfulness tips for everyone going through infertility, pregnancy, into parenthood.   Michelle (35:55) That's amazing. And actually quickly talk about the they include?   Jo (36:00) Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's four days, three nights, and I teach a lot of mindfulness workshops, but then I also bring in other practitioners to do a sound bath. We've done aura readings. I take people to the hot springs. I do a breathwork class, because I also teach breathwork. We do like these wish beads, intention setting. This year we're doing those vision boards. And we're...   Last year we did a cacao ceremony. So I throw in a lot of stuff. It is, I want women to feel nurtured because we're just always doing so much for other people that we never take time to just care for ourselves. So I wanted to give women this experience where someone is just caring for them in this really comprehensive way. So it's super.   Michelle (36:31) I love that. That sounds so fun.   And talk about having a reason to be centered and present. Because I think that when you're away from your normal, definitely like seeing the normal things that it will trigger not being present or your mind will go off into, oh, I have to do this, that, and the other. When you're in environment, you're so accustomed to thinking like that, that when you're in a retreat and getting somewhere where you are in a group,   you feel bad looking at your phone. You don't want to. It's part of like, you want to be part of this group and the energy that comes together too. I really believe strongly in that. I go a lot to Joe Dispenza events because you cannot beat the energy of community. There's something in the energy of everybody coming together with that same mindset and with the hopes of growth that is powerful. I think that we work together almost like a neurologically. It's like neuro...   were like neurons that fire together like Joe Dispenza says, but it's true. You start to really uplift each other as a whole collective.   Jo (37:58) Yeah, so I mean, I think it's that energy that you bring into it and everyone's like minded. So they're bringing that same energy with them of wanting to, um, to level up and, and experience that rest and renewal. So, uh, for your listeners, uh, if they, um, they can get $150 off with the code, uh, Lotus, they just, um, go to my website and they can see the link and all the information for the next retreat.   Michelle (38:26) That's awesome. I'll put it in the episode notes. All right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Josephine. I, we've been following each other on Instagram for ages and I was like, Ooh, I like her. She has like good energy. And I, I just like followed you in general.   Jo (38:29) Yeah, perfect.   Michelle (38:42) and then I'm like a big, huge family too. And I knew you went through the fertility journey too.   So I was always interested in talking to you. So it's really nice to have you on the podcast finally.   been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on.   Jo (38:55) Yeah, no, thanks so much for reaching out, Michelle. This is such a great conversation and such a great resource, your podcast for the community, truly. So I'm excited to have you on my own show so you can share your wisdom there as well.   Michelle (39:10) Thank  

Dr. Amy Divaraniya is the CEO and Founder of Oova, a women’s health company. She has more than 10 years of experience as a data scientist and has both led and published original research in the areas of personal genomics and biomarker discovery. Her solid understanding of biology and being able to apply complex analyses have led to innovative projects in the healthcare space. In 2017, Dr. Divaraniya chose to pivot her career as a data scientist and devote herself to improving women’s healthcare. After facing her own struggles with conceiving her son, Dr. Divaraniya decided to build a solution to help women having difficulty getting pregnant. Today, she and her team have built the first at-home test, Oova, that measures multiple hormones through urine samples and provides personalized results and insights on a woman’s fertility. As a response to COVID-19, Oova has done an early release of their product. Oova has resonated with many women and clinicians and is now being adopted by fertility clinics and hospitals across the country.

 

https://www.oova.life

https://www.facebook.com/OOVAlife/

https://twitter.com/oovalife?lang=en

 

Coupon code: WHOLESOME = 15% off of order

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

Rebecca Wilson facilitates Shamanic Womb Healing & Rites Blessings. She is the Founder of Womb Connection- Healing- Awakening, which has been birthed from her personal journey of Womb Awakening.
Rebecca is a Womb Keeper, Womb Healer, Wise Womban, Spirit Baby & Birth Doula.

She holds a powerful Earth filled Medicine which naturally infuses all her work and offerings, she is deeply connected to nature and finds her inspiration within the elements. Rebecca is a channel for the sacred energies of Divine Mother Frequency, connecting heaven on earth through the new earth templates and earth line grids she holds a healing transmission for the birth of the New Earth.

Her passion is to lovingly hold a space for participants to express themselves fully and creatively. By allowing them to feel comfortable and safe when dipping their toes in vulnerability, Rebecca encourages self expression through embodiment healing which provides a space for each individual to explore and awaken deep energies throughout the physical, emotional and spiritual body.
 
Rebecca encourages each individual to take their own journey through her offerings, creating a space to tune into their own intuition and inner wisdom.

 

You can check out her episode here: https://www.thewholesomelotusfertility.com/thewholesomefertilitypodcast/160

 

 

https://www.rebecca-wilson.com

https://www.facebook.com/Rebeccawilsonyoga

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSKCpkaTHda74b_LhKdEfj71_EFiRlURg

https://www.instagram.com/rebecca_wilson_/?hl=en

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/

 

To subscribe to this podcast, visit https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fertility-wellness-with-the-wholesome-fertility-podcast/id1445367223

Doctors told Melissa Harris she may never have another child. After nine surgeries, years of fertility treatments and a heartbreaking miscarriage of twins, she brought micro-preemie Sam into the world. His fight for survival, alongside his persevering mother's, is the subject of inspiration in Melissa's new memoir ONE POUND, TWELVE OUNCES (Nov. 2, 2021, She Writes Press), a non-medical, non-religious look at premature birth and miscarriage.

 

Melissa is now a work-from-home account manager for two virtual creative agencies in the Bay Area. In her free time, she drives kids from activities to appointments to playdates, volunteers at the neonatal intensive care unit at Alta Bates Hospital where Sam was born, and helps her congresswoman fight for better health care for all Americans.

 

For more information, visit Melissa’s website, https://melissaharrisauthor.com/ .

 

https://www.facebook.com/melissaharrisauthor

https://twitter.com/MelRagent

https://www.instagram.com/melragent/

 

For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com

The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/

Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/