Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast We're Not Marketers
| Titre | Date | Durée | |
|---|---|---|---|
| IC vs PMM leadership. Is the promotion today still worth it? (with Emily Pick) | 29 Oct 2026 | 00:46:30 | |
Emily Pick (Director of Product Marketing at Docebo) can do product marketing in her sleep. So when she earned the director title, she took it. Is it still worth it? She tells her side of the story, and if you're asking yourself the same? You might relate with what's she saying below.
“I was promoted because I was a good IC, and because I was a good IC, I have opinions about what good looks like.” “Every yes is a no to something else you’ve already promised.” “Great launch, great launch. Here’s everything else that’s wrong that needs to be fixed.” “Can you shoulder the emotions of your team, and can you also have the boundaries that you don’t fully take it home with you every single night?”
00:00 Welcome: Eric, Zach and Gab 00:49 Meet Emily Pick of Docebo, fresh off Highline 02:25 Gab asks: are product marketers actually marketers? 05:40 Player and coach: from IC to director 06:58 The pat on the back you lose as a manager 07:25 Why she left IC after six or seven years 08:39 Zach asks: is it worth it? 09:42 How your leaders make or break the leap 11:56 Zach's story: the manager who punished candor 12:45 Start every one-on-one with how you are 13:23 Can you shoulder your team's emotions? 14:55 A shout-out to the team 16:07 From 10 hours of meetings a week to 25 17:35 Her review note: say no more 18:00 Every yes is a no to something already promised 20:00 Why PMM means constant context switching 21:39 Gab asks: how do you make yourself easy to work with? 22:21 How to say no without starting a fight 24:25 The about-working-with-me doc 25:43 Bring a problem, bring a proposed solution 26:30 Keeping quality up as a player coach 28:37 Promoted for being a good IC 30:34 The pizza place night that taught her to delegate 32:15 Eric asks: is the director track worth it? 33:29 Could you ask your boss to demote you? 37:08 Bad decisions are what give you the experience 39:06 Zach asks about the weight of a layoff 39:38 A wildfire alert, mid-question 40:32 What helped her after being RIF'd 41:48 Build in public before you need it 44:30 Where to find Emily (and Hank the dog) Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Time to pivot? Fractional PMMs reveal. | 22 Oct 2026 | 00:35:05 | |
Three fractional PMMs (Eric, Gab and Zach), one uncomfortable question:
This is a Misfit episode, just the three of us. We get into how to tell a real signal from a bad month, why differentiation for its own sake doesn't create demand, and Gab's four-letter sales audit (leads, appointments, proposals, sales) to run before you blow anything up. 00:00 Cold open: when your self-worth is tied to your business 00:16 Welcome: Zach, Eric (the Frankenmarketer) and Gab 00:37 A Misfit episode: when you pivot your offer, do you know what you're doing? 01:37 Eric says no: pivoting at 3, 6 or 12 months is too early to know 03:36 Gab: differentiation for its own sake doesn't create demand 03:57 Zach: self-worth, and figuring it out 50/50 as you go 05:07 Gab: be 80% distribution, 20% build 06:32 Eric: you'll know when the wheels come off the train 08:03 The highlight reel: what you see online isn't always what happened 09:51 Zach: is it a business or a hobby? 10:57 Eric: the confidence bucket 13:43 Gab's own pivot: from messaging to message testing 14:11 LAPS: leads, appointments, proposals, sales 15:40 The comparison trap and the "fountain of leads" 18:12 Gab on Dan Koe: darts blindfolded while the target moves 20:29 Six figures, but are you happy? 22:37 Repositioning takes time: "I still don't know what you do" 24:31 Zach: not a fit isn't an indictment 25:27 Closing thoughts. Eric: find people who fill your cup 26:23 Gab: follow the demand. Iteration vs. a hard pivot 29:20 Zach: asking for help isn't being less than 30:48 The Confident Mind: claim your first victory, then audit your feed 33:14 Gab: zoom out, it's a game of longevity 34:26 Zach: chess is a game of patience Books to read The Courage to Be Disliked, Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga: https://www.betterreading.com.au/book/the-courage-to-be-disliked/ The Confident Mind, Dr. Nate Zinsser: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/441864/the-confident-mind-by-zinsser-nathaniel/9781529159028
Daniel Priestley (LAPS, per Gab): https://www.danielpriestley.com Dan Koe: https://thedankoe.com Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| They're Paying $400K for a Job Product Marketers Already Do, w/ Elliott Rayner | 08 Oct 2026 | 00:39:39 | |
Companies are posting head of storytelling roles at around $400K a year, and Elliott Rayner (Head of Storytelling at OWOW Agency and Creator of The Story Cohort) has the receipts: 25 of those job descriptions, pulled apart in his State of Storytelling 2026 report. His read is that it is a chief product marketing officer under a different name. The skill set they are asking for is a product marketing director's skill set. So why is nobody in product marketing putting their hand up? 00:00 Welcome to season six Books and Courses to See 1. The Story Engine by Elliott Rayner, where the addiction-to-stories idea comes from. https://maven.com/productstorytelling/o/3c5611 2. The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell, the story circle Elliott builds on. https://www.jcf.org/learn/joseph-campbell-heros-journey Additional Sources to Explore 1. Product Narratives, Elliott's site and home of the State of Storytelling report. https://productnarratives.com 2. The Product Storytelling Cohort on Maven. Next one runs November 16 to December 13, 2026. https://maven.com/productstorytelling/storytellingcohort 3. Marketing Examples, the site of Harry Dry, who taught Eric "but and so." https://marketingexamples.com Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Death to Sameness w/ Nina Churchill | 01 Oct 2026 | 00:41:15 | |
Nina Churchill quit her corporate PMM job effective immediately. She then wrote a series of posts on LinkedIn that reached about half a million people. She's a fellow product marketer and founder of Fresh View Concepts, where she helps B2B companies stop sounding like everyone else. We get into the post, the burnout and the 11 weeks of FMLA before it, and why we put up with behavior at work that we'd call abuse at home. Then the useful stuff. Why your manager is the top reason you stay or go. The questions to ask a hiring manager before you take the job.
00:00 Welcome, and the hosts introduce themselves 00:29 Meet Nina Churchill, recovering performance marketer and founder of Fresh View Concepts 01:27 Nina's coming to Death to Marketing (and Saugatuck) 02:06 Gab's question: are product marketers ultimately marketers? 03:42 The LinkedIn post that made Eric want to run through a wall 04:18 A new manager, a burnout, and 11 weeks of FMLA 06:44 "Effective immediately" 07:06 Half a million people and a flood of DMs 07:46 Why do we accept at work what we'd call abuse at home? 10:32 Any backlash? "I can't like this, but I respect it" 11:09 "Your LinkedIn is your LinkedIn" 12:25 Jumping without a parachute: therapy, ADHD, and deleting the apps 15:34 Blood pressure, cortisol, and life after quitting 17:59 Boundaries: bad at them, or never practiced? 18:59 Fresh View Concepts, 2011, and some questionable age math 19:32 Running her business differently this time around 20:20 "Oh, you look stable" 21:15 Productive in two hours, not eight 23:06 The moment she decided she was the boss 23:29 The agency that always had her back 25:10 From bartending to product marketing in HR tech 26:07 How much your manager really matters 27:59 Interview the hiring manager too 30:38 The coworker who gave her name to recruiters 32:04 Why she signed up for Death to Marketing 34:50 Do we need to hide the booze? Mocktails for everybody 35:58 Death to sameness 37:31 Payroll, and why nobody trusts your AI 39:40 Where to find Nina: the Sameness Report and Whirl
1. Fresh View Concepts, Nina's positioning consultancy 2. Whirl, Nina's AI mock interview tool (free if you were recently laid off) 3. Nina Churchill on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/ninachurchill/ 4. Nina's writing at 3Sixty Insights https://3sixtyinsights.com/author/ninachurchill/ 5. PostHog, Nina's example of a brand that's actually different 6. Death to Marketing, October 2026 https://www.death-to-marketing.com Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Your CEO Just Handed You an Event. Now What? w/ Maggie Arai | 24 Sep 2026 | 00:41:05 | |
Your CEO just said you're hosting an event. You've never run one. Now what? Maggie Arai is the Founder of IRL Studios, where she designs in-person events for online brands. She's run more than 70 of them. She's also the person keeping Death to Marketing, our own conference, out of a ballroom with fluorescent lighting. We asked her what a product marketer needs to know before their first event lands on their desk. Where the budget quietly disappears (food and bev, every time). Why every event needs a 10 to 15% contingency line. And her take on open networking (heads up: not the answer none of us expected). She also tells us, on the record, where we already messed up planning our own event. If you've been handed an event with no budget, no team, and a note to "do something like that happy hour," start here. Maggie Arai on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maggie-arai/ Above the Fold: https://www.spiralyze.com/abovethefold Highline by UserEvidence: https://userevidence.com/highline/ Toronto Tech Week: https://www.torontotechweek.com/ Death to Marketing: https://www.death-to-marketing.com 00:00 Welcome, and the hosts introduce themselves 00:29 Meet Maggie Arai, Founder of IRL Studios and our event planner 01:31 Why would anyone sign up to run something this insane? 02:18 Nobody wants another ballroom with fluorescent lighting 03:26 What scared her about taking on her first B2B event 04:29 Event number 71, and still intimidated 05:44 You don't have to be a product marketer to have imposter syndrome 06:01 Are the rules different for B2B and consumer events? 09:21 Her first real exposure to a room full of product marketers 11:04 The IRL Studios thesis: getting online people into one room 13:31 Zach wants his lawyer in a suit 14:19 Be honest: where did we mess up? 14:50 The budget line nobody scoped: venue visits 16:32 Get more detailed in your budget than you think you need 17:57 Why every event budget needs a 10 to 15% contingency line 18:58 Your CEO says you're hosting an event. What catches you off guard? 19:23 Food and bev will eat your budget 21:13 Skydiving, whitewater rafting, and the insurance question 22:46 Why we killed the roast, and what replaced it 26:23 How Maggie designs events people actually want to attend 27:57 Easy to host an event, hard to host one that moves the needle 28:45 Why Death to Marketing ends with a field trip 30:23 The one event practice that has to die 31:05 Open networking has to die 33:18 The invisible hierarchy in every networking room 36:16 Drink tickets are not a designed experience 37:22 Toronto Tech Week: two DJs and nowhere to talk 38:27 Go see the room for yourself 39:20 Where to find Maggie Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| We Spent Three Years Hiding From Dave Gerhardt at His Own Event | 17 Sep 2026 | 00:31:45 | |
Eric Holland and Gab Bujold recorded this one on a deck in Stowe, Vermont, in the middle of Drive, with a cardboard cutout of Zach standing in for the third host. It is the first We're Not Marketers episode made in person, and it is mostly about why the three of them keep showing up to the same conference in fake mustaches. The costumes started as a joke about not being allowed into a marketing event by a podcast called We're Not Marketers. Three years later the bit has produced a real relationship with Dave Gerhardt, a running gag the check-in desk now expects, and enough conviction to go build their own event. Show Notes 00:25 Why Zach is on tape as a cardboard cutout 01:02 Why three product marketers keep coming back to the same Vermont conference 01:28 The disguise started as a joke about not being let into a marketing event 02:18 How Drive turned into a family vacation 03:12 Gab's four hour drive from Quebec City with a six month old and a corgi 05:03 Why not San Francisco, and why not Vegas 06:02 Why are we dressing like a bunch of assholes 06:29 The real first reason for the costumes: hiding from Dave 07:03 The clumsy first year, and feeling like a misfit in the room 08:19 Dave Gerhardt walks up: Hey, guy with the hair 11:27 Why the costume works, and the comment from the check-in desk 12:18 Where Zach actually is, and why he still got more selfies than either host 13:33 Why product marketers specifically need to get uncomfortable 13:44 Gab on product marketers being scared to ask for budget 15:22 The survey that got over 10,000 visits, and what belongs on a resume now 16:05 Where the name Mojo came from 17:57 The difference between fear and expecting fear 19:14 Death to Marketing, six weeks before a wedding 20:14 Three guys, no private equity, one event 23:34 Zach's cutout blows over, and Brendan Hufford checks in 24:48 Community with a lowercase c 27:34 What happens when a 200 person event becomes 400 28:16 The boat tour, and what they took for Lake Michigan 29:39 LaShay Lewis, and the line that stuck 30:01 The pain of change is no longer worse than the pain of staying the same 31:16 Go shake hands, go touch grass Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Why Is Every Product Marketer Suddenly Being Asked to Make Video? w/ Natalie Taylor | 10 Sep 2026 | 00:36:33 | |
Video landed on every marketer's plate this year. Nobody added headcount for it, and nobody explained how to actually get one made. Natalie Taylor runs marketing at Capsule, where enterprise teams like HubSpot, ServiceNow and Instacart build on-brand video without going through a creative team, and she has spent two years watching product marketers get stuck in the same queue. Her fix runs against the standard playbook. Stop treating the launch video as the last asset. Make it first, because it is the most complex format you own, and once it is right the copy, the visuals and the email GIFs all fall out of it. She also walks through what an agentic video skill actually does, step by step, and says the quiet part out loud about her own category: most AI product demos are not showing you real output. Then the whole thing detours into a pizza tier list that somehow lands the sharpest AI argument in the episode. SHOW NOTES 00:00 Cold open and host introductions 00:41 Natalie joins, and admits she has never held the title of product marketer 01:56 The question the show exists for: are product marketers actually marketers? 02:18 Why marketing labels never made sense to her 03:20 "You're a marketer if you're doing marketing" 03:24 The one exception: why demand gen sits in its own bucket 05:19 The Tuesday afternoon Slack message that says "let's do some product videos" 05:54 Everyone is being asked to make video, job description or not 07:36 The old workflow: ask the creative team, join the queue, wait 08:25 Fully agentic video, without opening an editing tool 09:23 Eric asks whether video is back in fashion or just newly possible 10:17 What Twitter's feed of launch videos says about the format 11:14 Capsule starts with the launch video instead of ending with it 12:58 Anthropic as the model for tier-two launches 14:01 Capacity versus tooling when you are one person 15:19 Video skills, walked through with a Zendesk example 16:36 Why most AI video tools are one shot, and why this one hands you a project 18:39 What a PMM should actually go learn about video 19:52 You should not need to be an expert to make something good 20:43 Gab on developing taste 21:03 The agentic promise versus the learning curve nobody mentions 23:31 Zach on feeling like an idiot yelling into a chatbot 24:07 Smoke and mirrors, and how Natalie is launching against the hype 25:05 The pizza tier list begins 27:34 "An AI agent won't be able to do that for you" 30:03 Zach imagines Natalie as a MasterChef judge 31:03 Pizza is a canvas, and so is AI 33:17 The pizza industry secret, and the oven she and her husband built 35:07 Chicago, New York, or New Haven 35:53 Where to find Natalie
Capsule, the video platform Natalie runs marketing for: https://capsule.video Modern Pizza Products, the oven she co-founded: https://www.modernpizzaproducts.com Emily Kramer's fuel and engine framework: https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/fuel-engine Natalie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliecstaylor/ Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| PMA Offered Us $200. We Said "No Deal", and Built Our Own Event | 03 Sep 2026 | 00:49:12 | |
This is the Death to Marketing episode. Zach, Eric and Gab take stock of what it has actually cost to build a conference from nothing: the $200 sponsorship offer that set the whole thing in motion, the $90,000 in sponsors they have since closed, the 48 people who have bought tickets, and the friend who texted to say he wasn't coming. What it does to you when the success of your business becomes the measure of you as a person, why selling tickets turned out to be harder than selling sponsors, and the lesson none of them expected to learn about asking for help. Death to Marketing is October 11 in Holland, Michigan. *Recorded August 10, 2026.
Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| How a Guy Who Graded Film Got Tricked Into Product Marketing w/ Jason Druss | 14 May 2026 | 00:49:31 | |
Jason Druss spent 15 years being the customer — a film colorist at Warner Bros, NFL Films, and his own Philly boutique — before Adobe pulled him into product marketing for Premier Pro and After Effects. In this episode, Jason (Principal Product Marketing Manager, Adobe) drops his takes: why workflow isn't a buzzword when you've actually lived it, how his team runs a private WhatsApp group with hundreds of users, and why being your own ICP is both a superpower and a trap. If you've ever felt like a fraud talking about users you've never met, this one's for you. More from this episode
Time Stamps 00:45 Why this episode is different: a PMM pulled IN to PMM, not chasing it 01:30 Jason Druss intro — from colorist to Adobe PMM 02:15 THE QUESTION: Are product marketers marketers? 03:30 "We're storytellers before we're marketers" 04:30 Should the product or the user be the main character? 05:30 The trap of feature-led storytelling vs. workflow thinking 07:00 What "workflow" actually means (and why it's not jargon) 09:00 The Frame.io / Camera to Cloud story 12:30 How Frame.io rewrote a 100-year-old industry workflow 14:00 Jason's spicy take: PMMs must eat, live, breathe the product 16:00 How user needs have shifted dramatically in 5–10 years 18:00 The Premier Pro pillow story (and why every PMM should have one) 19:00 Where most companies fail at user research 20:30 The private WhatsApp group with hundreds of users 21:30 Weekly webinars, betas, and the questions you're NOT asking users 24:00 Scrappy is a state of mind, not a company size 25:00 Jason's career timeline: Blackmagic → NFL Films → Warner Bros → Frame.io → Adobe 28:00 The crisis of faith — leaving "colorist" behind 30:00 Why Jason's passion is impossible to fake 31:30 The dark side of being your own ICP 33:00 Mixing intuition with data — the PMM credibility unlock 35:00 Advice for aspiring PMMs: become a subject matter expert first 38:00 The creativity rant — your differentiator vs. AI 41:30 ROI, business metrics, and earning the seat at the table 44:00 The "beautiful circle" of product marketing (and who's outside it) 46:00 Where to find Jason + Adobe Max teaser 48:00 Outro Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| AI is killing your marketing (one way to fix) w/ Gila Shapiro | 07 May 2026 | 00:41:44 | |
Some of B2B are the cool kids shouting "synergy" with spinach dip in hand. Gila Shapiro — copywriter, PMM, and resident chaos agent at Fireflies.ai — joined the crew to roast corporate buzzwords, expose "copy thinking" and "copy pasting" with AI, and give the founder POV trick that ends executive copy fights forever.
Show Notes Timespan: 00:00 Cold Open & Host Introductions (Eric, Zach, Gab) 01:00 Introducing Gila Shapiro — Copywriter, PMM, Creative Strategist at Riverside 02:50 The Recurring Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:00 The "Elevate Your Enterprise Synergies" Test 05:30 Writing Copy vs. Being a Copywriter — The Frying Pan Analogy 07:00 Gila's Process: Say the Terrible Thing Out Loud 07:35 The Dinner Party Test 09:00 Why Most People Default to Corporate Jargon 12:30 Be Interested to Be Interesting — The Customer Interview Trick 15:30 Ownership at Riverside & Wearing Multiple Hats 17:30 The Broken Brief-to-Copy Handoff Process 19:30 What to Do When Good Copy Doesn't Convert 21:30 Personal Brands vs. B2B Brands: Why B2B Is Afraid 23:30 AI for Job Security — Copy Think vs. Copy Paste 27:00 The "Copy Think vs. Copy Paste" Framework 30:00 Internal Fights with Executives Over Copy 31:25 The Founder POV Reverse-Engineering Trick 33:30 Burnout, Garden Gnomes, and Chasing the Fun Parts 36:30 Live Pitch: Why Switch from SquadCast to Riverside? 40:30 Cheers and Farewell Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Allergic to bullshit marketing w/ Louis Grenier | 23 Apr 2026 | 00:37:04 | |
Louis Grenier has run a podcast called Everyone Hates Marketers for 8 years. He's not here to be nice about it. In this episode, Lou breaks down why product marketing only exists because B2B tech forgot what customers actually want — and why your positioning project is probably being run by the wrong person. We cover customer research frameworks, the CEO buy-in problem no one talks about, and the Irish convenience store that is a crime against positioning. Hit play before your next messaging doc meeting. You'll thank us.
Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| “I’m Just A Normal PMM Trying To Survive” (with David Lim) | 29 Jan 2026 | 00:43:25 | |
Are product marketers actually marketers, or are they just glorified slide deck designers waiting for sales to bark orders? David Lim—a PMM who's survived Google, HP, and multiple startups—joins the skeleton crew to drop some uncomfortable truths. We talk about earning respect when founders don't have a clue what you do, why knowing your customer's quarterly priorities is a superpower, and what happens when you fight a C-suite exec on product strategy (spoiler: sometimes you get fired). If you've ever been asked to "make that deck pretty," this one's for you.
Time Stamps 00:59 Introducing Guest: David Lim (PMM at BVO) 02:36 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:15 How PMMs Earn Respect (Or Get Stuck in the Black Hole) 07:00 What Sets PMMs Apart: Cross-Functional Collaboration 09:45 The Research That Changed Everything (Working Under Product Org) 13:00 Advocating for PMM: Educating Teams on What You Actually Do 16:00 The Metrics Problem: What Should PMMs Own? 20:00 Working with Customer Success Teams (QBRs and Product Feedback) 23:00 When You Know the Customer Better Than Anyone Else 26:00 Understanding Quarterly Priorities (The Detail Most PMMs Miss) 29:00 Customer Advisory Boards and Sales Advisory Boards 33:00 The Struggle: When Executives Ignore Your Research 35:00 David's Story: Getting Fired for Fighting Product Strategy 38:00 Gab's Story: When a Writer Called the Product "Shit" 40:00 Rolling with the Punches (And Why It's Hard) 42:00 In-House vs. Agency PMM: The Respect Difference 45:00 Post-Launch Research: The Key to Proving You Were Right 47:00 The Founder Talk: Setting Clear Expectations 49:00 Understanding the Customer's Buying Process 50:00 Wrap-Up and Where to Find David Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| The Anti-ICP Strategy: How To Use Your Website to Fire Bad Prospects w/ BX Studio | 15 Jan 2026 | 00:47:44 | |
Product marketers think they own the messaging. SEO thinks they own the traffic. But who actually owns your website—and why are they both probably wrong? In this spicy debate with BX Studio, we dig into the turf war destroying B2B websites, why your CEO is the real problem, and the radical idea that maybe your website should actually reject leads (yes, really). Buckle up for hot takes on keyword worship, the death of MQLs, and why your Rolex store strategy is all wrong. Nikiya Griffith, Director of Organic Growth Grace Arrese, Partnerships Associate
Time Stamps 00:00 Opening & Attendee Check-in 01:00 Real Humans vs AI Note-takers Discussion 02:00 Setting the Stage: PMMs vs Non-PMMs 03:00 The Main Question: Who Should Own the Website? 03:45 Eric's Hot Take: Product Marketing Should Own It 04:45 Nikia's Counter: Joint Ownership is Key 05:45 Website Ownership and Blame Discussion 07:00 Real-World Website Conversion Problems 08:30 The Writer's Wiki Solution 11:00 Dream Relationships Between PMM and SEO 13:00 Keyword Lists vs Message-First Approach 16:00 Website Design and FAQ Strategy 18:00 The CRO/CEO Acronym Confusion 20:00 QuickBooks AI Positioning Disaster 22:00 Who Has Final Say on Messaging? 26:30 The CEO Wrecking Ball Problem 29:00 The Irish Exit Messaging Analogy 31:00 Metrics That Matter: SQLs vs MQLs 33:00 The Rolex Store Anti-ICP Strategy 35:00 Enterprise Positioning and Deterrence 38:00 Nikia's Counter: Why More Metrics Matter 41:00 The Internal Echo Chamber Problem 45:00 GEO vs SEO: The New Frontier 48:00 Closing Thoughts and Farewell Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Strategy over fluffy jargon w/ Crystal Crouch | 08 Jan 2026 | 00:46:47 | |
Crystal Crouch turned driving the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile into a product marketing empire - and she's not keeping the secrets. The woman who put Zach on the consulting path drops truth bombs about why 90% of company data is garbage, why product management is harder than PMM (fight us), and how being hyper-organized means her 9-year-old has never eaten a frozen chicken nugget. If you've ever wondered whether to charge hourly or by project, or why your messaging doc is just an expensive PDF no one reads, this episode will either inspire you to level up or quit entirely. Either way, you win.
Show Notes 02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? The Demand Translation Theory 05:00 Why Product Management is 10x Harder Than PMM 08:00 The Real Definition of GTM (Spoiler: You're Probably Wrong) 12:00 Crystal's Journey to Consulting: From Church to Clients 15:30 Three Lessons for Consultant Success 17:00 The Truth About Free Work and Acts of Service 19:00 How Crystal Balances It All: Pomodoro Method & One TV 23:00 Living by the Calendar: The Secret to Work-Life Balance 26:00 Negotiation Masterclass: Treat Yourself Like Product Pricing 29:00 Why 90% of Company Data is Garbage 31:00 The ROI Question: How to Handle It Like a Pro 33:00 Automatic Client Red Flags 36:00 Fixing Broken Data Without Doing It Yourself 40:00 Building Confidence: Stop Competing With Others 44:00 The Power of Kindness in Business 47:00 Why Every PMM Needs Sales Training 48:50 Happiness is a Choice: Crystal's Final Wisdom Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| No salary is worth your soul with Hattie the PMM | 18 Dec 2025 | 00:53:59 | |
Product marketers aren't marketers—they're architects while everyone else chooses to paint walls (no shade). Hattie the PMM shares her brutal journey from respected CEO to crying on calls as a micromanaged IC, revealing why PMM respect disappeared the moment she hit corporate payroll. We dive deep into the "becoming vs. doing" philosophy, why your money-limiting beliefs might be killing your consultancy, and how to extract value from companies while they extract from you. Raw, real, and revolutionary—this episode might make you quit your job or finally charge what you're worth. More from this convo...
Timestamps 00:00 Introduction & The Cher of Product Marketing 02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 02:30 The Architect vs. Interior Decorator Analogy 03:00 PMMs as Foundation Builders 04:00 From CEO to IC: The Respect Vanishing Act 05:00 BBC, Wall Street Journal, Cambridge University Days 06:00 Corporate America Reality Check 07:00 Micromanagement & Workplace Bullying 08:00 Childhood Trauma & Workplace Triggers 09:00 The Crying on Calls Era 11:00 Why PMM Respect Doesn't Exist 13:00 The Consultant Premium Phenomenon 15:00 Building Your Empire While Employed 17:00 The Strategic Visibility System 19:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins 21:00 Worst Career Advice 23:00 Budget Allocation Debates 25:00 Personal Branding Strategy 27:00 AI Impact on PMM 29:00 The Newsletter Game 31:00 Career Milestones & Roadblocks 33:00 Why Companies Pay Consultants More 35:00 Extract Value While They Extract From You 37:00 Building Frameworks on Company Time 39:00 The April Dunford Model 41:00 Roadblocks vs. Roadmaps 43:00 The Becoming vs. Doing Philosophy 45:00 Deep Coaching Approach 47:00 Why Information Isn't Enough 49:00 The Workout Analogy 50:00 Money Limiting Beliefs 51:00 Invoice Avoidance Psychology 52:00 The Profitable PMM Challenge 53:00Closing&WheretoFindHattie Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Why Product Marketing only lives (and dies) in B2B tech with Garrett Jestice | 11 Dec 2025 | 00:52:42 | |
Product marketing is marketing at it's purest form (not our words) —but only if we redefine what marketing actually means. Garrett Jestice, founder of Prelude, explains why tech companies get marketing backwards, how AI shifts risk from building to selling, and why messy go-to-market isn't a channel problem—it's a foundational problem. We dive into the CPG vs. SaaS marketing divide, why founders don't get PMM, and the brutal truth about connecting your work to revenue. Spoiler: If you can't explain who you're selling to and why, more ads won't save you.
Timestamps 00:00 Introduction & First Redheaded Guest 01:00 Guest Introduction: Garrett Jestice, Prelude Founder 02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 02:30 "Purest Form of Marketers" But Not Today's Definition 03:00 The CPG Background: Cheerios at General Mills 04:00 Brand Managers as General Managers 04:30 CPG vs. Tech: Where the Real Risk Lives 05:00 AI Shifting Risk from Building to Selling 06:00 The Minneapolis Connection 07:00 Physical Products vs. Digital "Ones and Zeros" 09:00 The Segmentation Problem in Tech Marketing 11:00 Product Team vs. Marketing Team Divide 13:00 Why Founders Don't Understand PMM 15:00 The Language Barrier with Engineering Founders 17:00 Building in Public & Personal Branding 19:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins 21:00 Worst Marketing Advice Stories 23:00 Budget Allocation Debates 25:00 The AI Hype Cycle Discussion 27:00 Personal Branding for PMMs 29:00 The Newsletter Renaissance 31:00 SEO in the AI Age 33:00 Career Journey: CPG to SaaS 35:00 Founding Prelude Agency 37:00 Early-Stage Company Focus 39:00 The Foundation Problem in GTM 41:00 Working with Founders Who Don't Get It 43:00 Getting Wins in Their Language (Revenue) 45:00 Connecting PMM Work to Revenue 47:00 Small Wins Strategy 49:00 Messy GTM Execution Fix 50:00 Channels vs. Foundations 51:00 How to Sell Consulting Internally 52:00 Closing & Where to Find Garrett Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Are you the Sales B*tch or the trusted PMM? w/ Drew Giovannoli | 04 Dec 2025 | 00:55:43 | |
Your PMM credibility is at stake, CRO demands more leads, without knowing what's winning revenue. Sounds familiar? • The shocking truth: Your entire company is already in marketing (they just don't know it) • How a layoff and two weeks notice led to a thriving agency • Why generalized PMM consulting is dead (and what to do instead) • The brutal first 6 months: Zero clients except former bosses • Win-loss as the "canary in the coal mine" for positioning problems • Why being a founder means being a salesperson first, PMM second • The annual planning cycle hack that finally brought clients • How to replace yourself as the most expensive consultant • The "choose your hard" philosophy of PMM entrepreneurship • Why nothing matters until someone pays you (repeatedly) Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| How curiosity didn't kill the cat w/ Amanda Groves | 20 Nov 2025 | 00:46:53 | |
Product marketers aren't marketers—they're non-conformist rebels! Amanda Groves, VP of PMM at Enable, who rocketed from IC to VP in just 2 years explains why. She breaks down why PMMs need to be trolls under bridges, why slowing down actually speeds you up, and how painting and ultra marathons make her a better leader. We dive into the PMM-to-CMO pipeline, fighting AI Mad Libs, and why the best product marketers challenge everything with intention. Warning: This episode might make you quit conforming and start rebelling. • Why product marketers should be "trolls under bridges" • The slow-down-to-speed-up philosophy that's breaking Silicon Valley • What ultra marathons teach you about product marketing leadership • Why painting on the side makes you a better PMM leader • The "controllables vs. uncontrollables" framework that saves careers • How to fight the AI Mad Lib epidemic in your messaging • Why more PMMs should be gunning for CMO (and how to get there) • The non-conformist hiring strategy that builds killer teams • What PMM leaders are fighting for that ICs never see • The disagree-and-commit principle that changes everything Timestamps 01:00 Guest Introduction: IC to VP in 2 Years 02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 02:30 "We Are More Than Marketers" - The Non-Conformist Theory 04:00 What Makes a Non-Conformist PMM 05:00 Rebels Who Pull Invisible Threads 06:00 The Troll Under the Bridge Analogy 07:00 Slow Down to Speed Up Philosophy 09:00 Building PMM Foundations Without Crumbling 11:00 Career Trajectory: The Non-Linear Path 13:00 From Content to Demand Gen to PMM 15:00 Why Product Marketing Was "The Most Fun" 17:00 Current Role at Enable & Team Building 19:00 Ultra Marathons & Mental Fitness 21:00 The Painting Practice & Creative Outlets 23:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins 24:00 Worst Marketing Advice Ever Received 26:00 Budget Allocation Debates 28:00 The AI Mad Lib Problem 30:00 Customer Advisory Boards Discussion 32:00 PMM Career Paths & Fractional Trends 34:00 The PMM to CMO Pipeline 37:00 Product-Led Growth Companies as PMM Paradise 39:00Disagree and Commit Principle Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Being human is your coolest feature w/ Nick Power | 13 Nov 2025 | 00:42:39 | |
Marketers have become glorified executors, and, Nick Power isn't here to sugarcoat it. The lowercase LinkedIn legend– who also leads marketing at Noun Project– joins us to explain why your strategy docs are bullshit, why he'd delete his digital presence tomorrow, and how running five miles beats any marketing framework. We talk anti-billionaire content, why brevity is the ultimate flex in marketing, and how the entire tech industry turned marketing into a commodity. • The shocking reason a LinkedIn influencer would delete his entire digital presence • How to fit an entire strategy into ONE SENTENCE (seriously) • Why your positioning docs are expensive PDFs nobody reads • The anti-billionaire marketing philosophy that's actually about mental health • What happens when you've never worked with a product marketer (spoiler: you survive) • The grind culture lie that's killing your creativity • Why running 5 miles beats any marketing framework • How to give readers "the gift of surprise" in every post • The real reason marketing became a commodity in tech Timestamps 01:00 Hot Guest Introduction & Lower Case Legend 02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 02:22 Nick's Controversial Take: "Very Few Marketers Are Marketers" 03:00 The System Problem: Executors vs. Strategists 04:00 Marketing as a Commoditized Craft 05:00 Nick's Background: CPG to B2B Tech 06:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins: Digital Presence vs. Family 07:00 The Mixed Bag of Online Attention 08:30 Zoom Calls vs. Person Captivity 10:00 Content Strategy: Wake Up and Write 11:30 LinkedIn Trolling & Negative Engagement 13:00 Quitting Social Media Discussion 15:00 The State of Marketing Salaries 17:30 Marketing Budget Allocation Debate 19:00 Personal Branding vs. Company Branding 21:00 The Death of Blogging 23:00 Keyword Strategy & SEO Reality Check 25:00 Marketing Advice You'd Give Your Younger Self 27:00 Worst Marketing Experience Stories 29:00 Firing Yourself from Marketing 31:00 Career Identity Crisis Discussion 33:00 Breaking Down Nick's Content Strategy 35:00 The Art of Brevity: One-Sentence Philosophy 36:00 Anti-Billionaire Content Explained 37:00 Late-Stage Capitalism & Grind Culture Critique 38:00 Coping Mechanisms: Running, Music, Kids 39:00 From Surf to Run: Finding Flow State 40:00 Mental Health in Marketing 41:00 Closing & Noun Project Shoutout Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Measure important stuff or die trying w/ Pranav Piyush | 06 Nov 2025 | 00:45:11 | |
Product marketing—marketing's favorite misunderstood stepchild or just expensive project management in disguise? Pranav Piyush (ex-Dropbox, ex-Bill, founder of Paramark) joins the crew to drop some inconvenient truths: most PMMs are stuck doing thankless work because nobody knows who actually runs the business. We're talking hypothesis-driven thinking, why talking to customers isn't optional, the statistical traps that make your research garbage, and why that rebrand probably won't save your pipeline. Also:
If you've ever felt like a glorified PowerPoint factory or wondered why your data never wins arguments, this episode will either validate your existence or make you question everything. Either way, you'll finally understand why the role exists in the first place.
00:37 Introducing the Guest: Pranav Piyush 00:46 Pranav's Background and Career Highlights 01:25 Personal Anecdotes and Adventures 02:40 Origins of the Podcast 03:37 The Role of Product Marketers 07:04 Challenges in Product Marketing 17:40 The Importance of Data in Marketing 24:00 Understanding Positioning and Messaging 24:45 Qualitative vs Quantitative Research in Messaging 25:04 The Role of Customer Research 30:13 Activity Metrics: What Really Matters? 34:29 Creative Work and Measurement 37:31 The Importance of Incrementality 43:58 Rebrands: Are They Worth It? 47:11 Final Thoughts and Podcast Promotion SNOW NOTES: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Why B2B events sucks for PMMs? (And why we’re starting our own) | 30 Oct 2025 | 00:46:35 | |
Season five kicks off with the announcement nobody asked for but everyone needed: We're Not Marketers is throwing an event, and it's nothing like the stale hotel ballroom marathons you're used to. Eric, Zach, and Gab break down why they're risking it all to create a three-day PMM experience that's equal parts tactical workshop, adventure vacation, and therapy session for product marketers who are tired of pretending B2B has to be boring. Get the juicy details on how they infiltrated Drive 2025, why they're limiting attendance to 150 people, and what happens when three solopreneurs decide confidence beats certainty. → Why three solopreneurs with zero event planning experience think they can beat PMA → The "sitting makes you stupid" theory: Why ballroom marathons kill creativity → How wearing a Halloween costume to a B2B event makes you more yourself, not less → Most PMMs need a recharge and haven't had one in years If you've ever wondered why PMM events feel like eating cardboard while someone reads you PowerPoint slides, this episode will either inspire you or make you think we've completely lost it. Timestamped 00:00 - Season 5 Intro: Two Years of We're Not Marketers SHOW NOTES: We're Not Marketers Event Waitlist Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Klue (battlecards) don't close deals, buying champions do | 26 Jun 2025 | 00:47:08 | |
AI-powered competitive intel is the new snake oil, and executives are buying it by the gallon. While everyone's obsessing over ChatGPT doing their research in 20 minutes, they're missing the point entirely—your buying champions don't need a 30-page report about why your competitors suck. They need ammunition to win internal battles with their CFO, their boss's boss, and six other stakeholders who couldn't care less about your feature comparison chart. Tune in for the brutal truth about why most competitive intel is just expensive garbage and what champions actually need to get deals done.
If you've ever wondered why your competitive intel doesn't actually win deals, or if you're tired of executives waving their ChatGPT reports around like they just discovered fire, this episode will either save your sanity or make you question everything. Either way, your champions will thank you. Timestamps 02:00 The Ugly Truth About AI-Powered Competitive Intel 07:00 AI vs. Human Expertise: The Battle for Trust 13:00 The Four Traps Killing Competitive Intel Programs 18:00 Why "Laziness" is Ruining B2B Sales Enablement 24:00 Gab's Messaging Sprint Success Story 31:00 What Champions Actually Need to Win Deals 36:00 The Death of CEO Handshake Deals 40:00 How to Train AI Without Losing Your Mind 44:00 MIT Study: ChatGPT is Eroding Critical Thinking 47:00 Season Wrap-up & See You Next Season Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Become a Mini-CEO: Inside the PMM Consultant’s Playbook w/ Alex Virden | 12 Jun 2025 | 00:46:43 | |
What happens when a product marketer leaves the in-house grind to start her own consultancy? According to Alex Virden, it changed how she saw product marketing entirely. In this episode, Virdical founder shares why PMMs aren’t traditional marketers, how consulting rewires your thinking, and what startup leaders really need when they ask for help. From messy handoffs to misaligned messaging, Alex explains the recurring pain points that surface in the go-to-market function and how external voices can reset the entire narrative. She also share knowledge on:
If you’ve tried to run a strategic PMM project while dodging CEO opinions and internal politics, this episode is a must-listen. Whether you're in-house and underwater or eyeing the consultant leap, Alex Virden brings receipts, real talk, and a clear lens on what modern product marketing really looks like when done right 🫡 Timestamps: 02:54 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:59 The Role of a Product Marketing Consultant 09:23 Challenges and Insights in Product Marketing 16:24 Structuring Consulting Engagements 24:19 Maintaining Control in Client Meetings 26:31 Meeting Disasters and Control 27:20 The Importance of Structured Agendas 29:06 Hypotheses and Curiosity in Product Marketing 30:46 Challenges in Messaging and Stakeholder Meddling 32:17 The Role of External Validation 34:59 Demand Generation vs. Product Marketing 38:58 The 4Ps and Modern Marketing 43:49 Final Thoughts and Staying Connected Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| There is no line between brand and product marketing w/ Jon Itkin | 05 Jun 2025 | 00:50:02 | |
If you’ve ever felt a gap between brand and product marketing, we’ve had an expert who’s been in both roles and is telling us that there’s not that different. Brand and product marketing expert Jon Itkin joins We're Not Marketers to dismantle outdated perceptions of marketing. The traditional divide between product marketing and brand marketing is harmful — and that truly impactful PMMs must think and act like "whole hundred marketers." From mastering macro market dynamics to understanding why memorability beats micro-optimization, John shares a treasure trove of insights to help PMMs step into strategic leadership. We’re covering:
Expect hard truths, practical frameworks, and some very strong opinions about why marketing fundamentals still matter more than ever. 👀 Timestamps: 00:54 Introducing the Guest: Jon Itkin 01:26 The Role of Product Marketers 04:34 Macro vs. Micro Perspectives in Marketing 07:16 Brand vs. Product Marketing 18:32 Differentiation in Product Marketing 26:15 Google's Convenience Advantage 26:44 The Importance of Convenience in B2B 27:15 Positioning and Buying Process 28:56 Switching Campaigns and Self-Service 30:28 Understanding the Four Cs 32:34 Leveraging AI for Competitive Analysis 41:12 Branding and Credibility 45:51 Final Thoughts and Reflections Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| PMMs, MarTech, and making AI actually useful w/ Phil Gamache | 29 May 2025 | 00:47:14 | |
Is product marketing really marketing? Or is it something more (or less)? In this deep-dive episode, Humans of MarTech co-founder Phil Gamache joins the crew to unpack what it truly means to be a marketer today—and why product marketing often feels like a misunderstood offshoot of the craft. From the forgotten “P” in the marketing mix to the role of AI in shaping how teams work together, this episode balances reflection, tactical insight, and Phil’s unmistakable chill candor. Learn how product marketers can better collaborate with marketing ops, why summarizing research matters more than polishing the perfect message, and how GenAI will shift execution forever. The ultimate marketer and podcast legend educate us on:
This one’s a must-listen for any PMM trying to earn cross-functional credibility and not just ship decks no one reads.If you’ve ever felt like the ‘silent’ in the marketing department, this episode will help you find your voice and your seat at the table. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Host Roundtable 01:05 Introducing the Special Guest: Phil Gamache 01:55 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 05:50 Phil's Experience with the Four P's of Marketing 09:22 Challenges and Roles in Marketing Ops 12:45 The Future of AI in Marketing 24:30 The Current State of AI 25:10 Leveraging AI for Customer Research 29:06 Practical Tips for Summarizing Customer Interviews 31:58 The Importance of Context in AI Prompts 40:02 Collaborating with Marketing Ops for Better Data 43:23 Exploring AI Tools: MidJourney vs. DALL-E 45:30 Conclusion and Farewell Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Why In-House PMMs Without Fractional Experience Are Missing Out? | 15 May 2025 | 00:43:37 | |
Is working fractional that secret weapon for in-house PMMs? In this no-holds-barred episode, Eric, Zach, and Gab debate whether product marketers with fractional experience have an edge when they return in-house. We dive into the gritty reality of juggling multiple clients, the mental health rollercoaster of working solo, and why most people don't understand what it truly takes to do it. Tune in for honest insights, soul-crushing reality checks, and maybe a few Mexican oranges along the way.
Time Stamps
Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| "Create Once, Dominate Forever: Why 2025 Content Decisions Determine Your 2030 Success w/ Ross Simmonds | 08 May 2025 | 00:53:47 | |
In this spicy episode, CEO & Founder of Foundation Marketing, Ross Simmonds reveals why content without distribution is just expensive digital paperwork. We dive into why product marketers ARE marketers (yes, even SEOs), how to build "content moats" that will still be paying dividends in 2030, and why LLMs will actually make SEO more valuable, not less. Ross drops some truth bombs about AI scraping the internet that might make you reconsider where you're spending your marketing budget.
If you want your content to actually drive results five years from now instead of disappearing into the digital void tomorrow, hit play. Ross reveals the distribution-first mindset that separates marketing that works from marketing that wastes. Show Notes 00:41 Meet Our Guest: Ross Simmonds 03:09 The Evolution of Marketing 05:37 The T-Shaped Marketer 10:03 Distribution First Mindset 14:09 SEO and Product Marketing 18:21 Investing in Content and SEO 24:11 Effective Content Distribution 31:18 Reflecting on Early Challenges 31:58 Embracing AI for Content Distribution 32:39 The Importance of Obsession and Continuous Learning 34:20 Practical Steps to Stay Ahead in AI 36:36 Building and Experimenting with AI Projects 45:55 Sharing Ideas and Overcoming Self-Doubt 49:10 The Power of Experimentation and Content Creation 52:14 Final Thoughts and Future Plans Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Why marketing research Is more than just 'talking to customers' w/ Ryan Paul Gibson | 01 May 2025 | 00:46:14 | |
Are most B2B marketers actually doing customer research wrong? In this episode, Content Lift founder Ryan Paul Gibson reveals why "just talking to customers" isn't enough and why one-third of marketers can't even get access to customers at all. From his days timing how long people take to put cream in coffee to calling customers without permission, Ryan shares guerrilla tactics for getting real insights when your company stands in the way. Tune in for a masterclass in effective customer investigation that goes beyond the junk food advice most marketers are fed:
If you've ever tried to make data-driven marketing decisions but got stuck with anecdotes instead of insights, this episode is your lifeline. Ryan shows you how to conduct customer research that actually informs strategy instead of just confirming what you already believe. Hit play to learn investigation techniques that will make your marketing budget work twice as hard. Timestamps: 00:54 Meet Our Guest: Ryan Paul Gibson 01:50 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 02:49 The History and Evolution of Marketing 04:56 Ryan's Journey into B2B Marketing 10:00 Challenges in Product Marketing 14:54 The Importance of Customer Interviews 23:05 Understanding B2B Marketing Dynamics 30:24 Understanding Research Design 30:59 Challenges in Client Engagement 36:09 The Role of AI in Market Research 36:50 Qualitative Research and Thematic Analysis 38:47 Leveraging AI for Faster Insights 41:21 Contextualizing Data with AI 49:51 Effective Customer Conversations 57:02 Final Thoughts and Contact Information Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| When Copy Gets Real: Why Getting Too Creative Actually Kills Conversion | 24 Apr 2025 | 00:26:49 | |
Is sounding "enterprise" killing your marketing message? In this episode, conversion copywriter Jessica Malnik joins the crew to expose why the most effective copy isn't about being clever—it's about stealing your customers' exact words. We dive into customer research plays you can use now, why corporate speak is a conversion killer, and how LinkedIn "lunatics" sacrifice credibility for clicks. Tune in for practical tips on creating content that actually converts instead of just sounding smart.
Show Notes 00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction 01:47 Jessica Malnick on Product Marketing 03:36 Navigating Copywriting Challenges 08:34 Human Touch in Copywriting 10:08 Using Reddit for Audience Research 11:27 Tools and Techniques for Copywriting 18:34 LinkedIn Strategies for PMMs 23:05 Final Thoughts and Resources 26:16 Conclusion and Sign-Off
Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Product marketers, paid landing pages are broken, w/ Tas Bober | 17 Apr 2025 | 01:02:59 | |
If you're tired of building landing pages that follow "best practices" but still fail to convert qualified leads, this episode will change everything. Whether you're a product marketer afraid of paid ads or a demand gen specialist struggling to get PMM buy-in, this episode will help you create pages that actually respect your buyers' intelligence while driving real business results. This week, we've joined by Tas Bober, growth marketing advisor and Scroll Lab founder. She reveals why the traditional approach to landing pages and sales collateral is fundamentally broken. We're covering:
In this episode, Tas explains to the misfits her "champion's business case" framework that replaces manipulative marketing tactics with transparent, value-focused content. She delivers practical wisdom for creating landing pages that treat buyers like adults. Listen for actionable insights on disqualifying bad-fit leads, writing effective CTAs, and building a foundation for freelance success beyond the corporate grind. Timestamps:
Show Notes: Her B2B website and landing page resource hub Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| The bottom of funnel (BOFU) gap: Why content marketers need product marketers w/ Lashay Lewis | 10 Apr 2025 | 00:40:18 | |
Ever wonder why most bottom-of-funnel content feels generic and fails to convert? In this episode, content strategy advisor Lashay Lewis drops knowledge bombs on the critical gap between product marketing and content marketing. She breaks down why teams are working in silos, how bottom-funnel content fails when the reader knows more than the writer, and why product marketers are the unsung heroes of effective marketing.
Listen for practical frameworks on cross-team collaboration and real talk on making the scary leap from full-time to fractional success. Timespan: 02:12 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:15 Product Marketers as Underutilized Marketing MVPs 06:41 The Problem with Siloed Communication in Marketing Teams 09:12 What is the Bottom of Funnel Gap? 12:03 Why Bottom Funnel Content Fails to Convert 14:53 Questions to Ask Different Teams for Effective Bottom Funnel Content 19:12 Lashay's Journey to Building Bottom Funnel Expertise 24:34 Transitioning from In-House to Consulting 28:06 The Benefits of Leaving In-House for Consulting 31:57 "The Pain of Staying the Same" Mindset 36:41 Building Momentum with "Micro Action, Macro Patience" 40:32 What's Next for Lashay and Where to Find Her
Rob Kaminsky and Anthony Pieri's Product Marketing Content Exit 5 Podcast Episode featuring Lashay Lewis Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Winning at Win-Loss: Why real research beats sales rep excuses w/ Ryan Sorley | 03 Apr 2025 | 00:40:36 | |
Is your win-loss data just expensive fiction written by your sales team? In this episode, Ryan Sorley (ex-Forrester, ex-Gartner) joins the crew to expose the hard truth about buyer research. From ripped jeans costing deals to bootstrapping a business while juggling kids and payroll, Ryan doesn't hold back on his journey from corporate misery to specialized success. Oh, and we uncovered the stupidly simple reason most product marketers fail at research. Tune in for honest laughs, real insights, and maybe a wake-up call about your "data." In this episode, we're covering:
Check out his new book Blindspots on Amazon too! Timestamps: 01:00 Introducing Ryan Sorley, Win-Loss Research Expert 02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:15 Ryan's Take on Product Marketing as Research 06:45 The Importance of Intentional Research 10:00 The "Superpower" of Win-Loss Analysis 12:34 The HubSpot Ripped Jeans Story 17:15 Ryan's Entrepreneurial Journey 19:00 The NJ Turnpike Moment: When Ryan Knew Corporate Life Wasn't for Him 21:00 How Ryan Discovered the Win-Loss Opportunity 23:45 Ryan's Transition from Gartner to Entrepreneurship 27:00 What's the Minimum Viable Plan for Going Solo? 30:00 The "Squad Life" Approach to Client Relationships 34:00 The Dark Times: Managing Cash Flow and Contractors 39:00 Specialization vs. Generalization in Consulting 42:45 Ryan's New Book: "Blind Spots" (Launch April 1st) 44:30 Closing Remarks and Farewell
Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Why most message testing is complete BS (and how to fix it) | 27 Mar 2025 | 00:38:52 | |
Is your message testing just throwing random ingredients into a pot and hoping it tastes good? In this no-holds-barred episode, the boys tackle the chaos of message testing and why most PMMs are doing it wrong. From useless A/B tests with tiny sample sizes to executives demanding "just one more tweak," we dive into what actually works. Tune in for laughs, practical frameworks, and why your mom's cooking method isn't a valid messaging strategy. We're covering:
If you've ever sat through a meeting where someone suggested "Let's A/B test it" for a campaign going to 150 people, this episode will either validate your frustration or completely change how you work. Either way, your next messaging project just got a whole lot more effective.
01:39 Question: How Many PMMs Actually Test Messages? 02:31 Why A/B Testing Is Often the Wrong Approach 04:00 Statistical Significance and Sample Size Problems 05:58 Testing Text vs. Testing Visuals 06:05 Messaging as Strategy vs. Tactical Implementation 09:01 Differentiating Message Testing from A/B Testing 12:15 The Commitment Problem in Marketing Decision-Making 16:16 How Trade Shows Can Validate Positioning and Messaging 19:45 Message Testing to Define Product Uniqueness 22:00 Eric's Process Misstep: Jumping to Experimentation Too Soon 27:45 The Scientific Method in Message Testing 29:01 The Gumbo Analogy: Why Most Marketing Isn't Replicable 34:15 Isolating Variables in Message Testing 35:36 Building a Strong Hypothesis Framework 38:25 Gab's Message Testing Resources (Message Market Fit) 41:30 The ROI of Message Testing and Business Consequences 44:35 Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways
Victoria Rudi's Messaging Frameworks Freckle.io - The Clay alternative talked in the example Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Doing more with less as a solo PMM w/ Michele Nieberding | 20 Mar 2025 | 00:48:56 | |
We have a rule here: Never get the same guest twice. Well, we’ve just broken it now because we’re getting Michele Nieberding for the 2nd time! The Director of Product Marketing at Metarouter, the Martech queen and two-time Top 100 PMM, returns to challenge one of the biggest assumptions about product marketers. We dive into the blurred lines between PMM, marketing, and product teams, why some org structures set PMMs up for failure, and how AI is reshaping the role. Plus, Michele drops tactical insights on working with sales, disqualifying bad leads, and scaling impact as a solo PMM. We’ve talked about:
🔊 Stay tuned for Michele’s must-know AI hacks, plus the biggest PMM trends shaping 2024! Timespan: 00:59 Introducing the Guest 02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:15 Sales and Marketing Insights 09:45 AI in Product Marketing 20:45 Working with Sales Teams 25:13 Navigating Competitor Analysis 26:19 Disqualifying Bad Fits 28:16 Sales Reps and Disqualification 29:01 The Buffet Analogy 33:27 The Anti-ICP Concept 36:21 Sales and Marketing Alignment 42:40 Future Trends in Product Marketing 48:04 Closing Remarks and Farewell
Gong.io (for sales call analysis) Perplexity AI (for deep research) Notebook LM (Google AI-powered research tool) Gamma AI (Instant slide deck generator) BuyWords (on-demand copywriting agency) AgentGPT (AI agents for research & automation) Prompt Genie (Optimized AI prompting tool) Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| From SDR to CMO: Why the best sellers are marketers w/ Kyle Coleman | 13 Mar 2025 | 00:44:51 | |
Product marketers with a sales background often feel like they have a superpower. The opposite is even truer. Kyle Coleman, CMO at Copy.ai, says yes—and he’s got the career journey to back it up. From SDR to marketing exec, Kyle breaks down why sales and marketing are inseparable, how storytelling (not the best product) wins markets, and why staying close to revenue is the key to career growth. Plus, he shares how he personally closed $350K in outbound sales while leading marketing. ✅ Why storytelling—not features—wins markets (just ask Salesforce). ✅ The biggest mistake most product marketers make when trying to prove their impact. ✅ Sales and marketing: two sides of the same coin or completely different beasts? ✅ Why the best PMMs own the revenue conversation. ✅ The "ivory tower" trap that kills product marketing impact. ✅ Kyle’s secret to getting buy-in from execs for category creation (hint: 75+ interviews). ✅ A real-life sales deck fail—and how Kyle fixed it by actually selling. ✅ The #1 piece of career advice for product marketers who want to be CMOs. If you're a product marketer aiming for the CMO seat, this episode is your playbook. 🔥 Timespan: 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast 00:16 Meet the Hosts 00:56 Introducing the Guest: Kyle Coleman 01:53 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:18 Sales and Marketing: A Unified Perspective 05:40 Kyle's Journey from SDR to CMO 07:42 The Importance of Staying Close to Revenue 12:10 Internal Buy-In and Category Definition 15:11 Advice for Aspiring CMOs 19:12 Using AI in Marketing Strategy 21:28 AI in Sales Enablement 22:40 Impact Over Quantity 23:57 Real-World Example: Transitioning to Enterprise 25:49 Hiring the Right Product Marketer 30:29 Marketing as a Leadership Function 34:51 Advice for Product Marketing Candidates 39:06 Kyle's Side Projects and Copy AI 41:45 Final Thoughts and Career Growth Tips Show Notes: Christopher Lochhead’s "Position Yourself or Be Positioned" Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| How to deliver outcome-based metrics as a PMM orchestrator w/ Chanel Chambers | 06 Mar 2025 | 00:42:29 | |
We’re kicking off season 4 with Chanel Chambers, VP of Marketing at Lakeside Software. As a product marketing leader and past music teacher, she’s joining us to break down the role of product marketing, why it's central to a business’s success, and how PMMs can increase their influence. From jazz improvisation to AI-driven business strategies, Chanel shares fresh insights on how product marketers can start treating their role with a business holistic approach and how to create credibility internally AND externally. We’re talked about: 🔹 Why product marketers sit at the center of the entire marketing mix 🔹 How PMMs can transition from order takers to strategic influencers 🔹 The “Land, Expand, Retain” framework every PMM needs to master 🔹 What jazz musicians and product marketers have in common 🔹 How to build credibility and navigate internal conflicts with confidence 🔹 Why business fluency is the key to PMM influence (hint: know your numbers!) 🔹 The difference between activities vs. outcomes—and why PMMs should focus on the latter 🔹 Why AI isn’t changing what businesses need, just how they get there 🔹 The biggest mistake PMMs make when presenting ICP and personas Listen now to get a fresh perspective on how to elevate your role and make a real impact as a PMM! 🎧 Timespan: 00:00 Introduction and Host Introductions 00:55 Special Guest Introduction: Chanel Chambers 02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 03:33 The Role of Product Marketing in Business 09:52 Frameworks and Problem-Solving in Product Marketing 16:03 Outcome-Based Metrics vs. Activity-Based Metrics 18:37 Navigating Organizational Goals and Stakeholders 23:04 Understanding the Role of Personas 24:24 The Importance of Insights Over Reports 25:50 Practicing Influence as a PMM 26:33 Curiosity and Ambiguity in PMM 34:38 Navigating Internal Conflicts 39:47 Final Thoughts and Farewell Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| RECAP - How to build influence as a PMM in 2025 | 20 Feb 2025 | 00:22:18 | |
In this special recap, we dive into what it really means to be a product marketer in the ever-evolving B2B SaaS space—from defining the role to gaining the trust of executives and product teams. Hear first-hand advice on establishing boundaries, shaping product roadmaps, and showcasing your unique value. Tune in to discover how you can go from feeling misunderstood to being the unignorable voice in your organization.
This episode is featuring episodes clips from Tamara Grominsky, Dave Gerhardt, and April Dunford. Give it a listen prior to season 4 launching in 2 weeks! Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Why your messaging briefs get thrown in the trash w/ Devin Reed | 30 Jan 2025 | 00:49:55 | |
Product marketing and content marketing—are they allies, or just frenemies in disguise? In this episode, Devin Reed (ex-Gong, ex-Clari, and host of Read Between the Lines) joins the crew to dish out his hot takes on the tension between PMMs and content marketers, why most messaging decks collect dust, and the real secret to making content that resonates.
If you’ve ever questioned whether product marketing is actually marketing (or just internal storytelling), this one’s for you. What You’ll Learn in This Episode: → The biggest mistake product marketers make when handing messaging to content teams → Why most positioning and messaging decks never make it into real-world content → The secret to testing messaging before betting big on a full campaign → How to bridge the gap between internal messaging and market-facing storytelling → The power of creative freedom—why it’s the ultimate flex in B2B marketing → The “two-sentence test” for making sure your messaging actually lands → When it’s too candid—how to balance bold positioning with market perception → How to write messaging that actually reflects what customers say Listen now to hear Devin unfiltered take on product marketing, messaging mistakes, and how to win the content game. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Host Welcome 02:00 Introducing the Special Guest: Devin Reed 04:13 Devin Reed's Insights on Product Marketing 06:00 The Relationship Between Content and Product Marketing 14:51 Testing and Differentiating Marketing Strategies 23:57 Creative Freedom in B2B Marketing 26:23 Writing for Yourself: A Sales Rep's Perspective 26:57 Creating Relatable and Memorable Content 28:12 The Power of Sales Team Collaboration 28:55 The Heat Check: Testing Content Ideas 29:35 Maniacal Focus on Quality Content 29:59 The Importance of Clear and Concise Messaging 31:40 Understanding Your Audience's Language 34:37 Navigating Internal Approval Processes 36:32 Leveraging Customer Insights for Copywriting 43:14 The Creative Process: From Inspiration to Execution 48:34 Final Thoughts and Upcoming Projects Show Notes: Reed between the lines podcast Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Building We're Not Marketers 💀 The Podcast Origin Story | 23 Jan 2025 | 00:39:02 | |
Ever wondered how a band of misfits turned shared frustrations into a thriving podcast? In this episode, we’re sharing our origin story, revealing how they met, bonded over common pain points in the product marketing world, and turned candid conversations into a platform that challenges industry norms. Packed with spicy takes, behind-the-scenes laughs, and actionable advice, this episode is a testament to the power of finding your people and staying true to your vision.
Tune in to discover why authenticity, fun, and a unique point of view are the ultimate game-changers. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Episode Context 01:32 Meet the Hosts 01:59 How We Met and Formed the Podcast 02:34 The Organic Evolution of the Show 04:13 Challenges and Dynamics of Product Marketing 06:52 Developing a Unique Point of View 09:46 Contrarian Perspectives and Testing Ideas 12:57 The Role and Identity of Product Marketers 21:11 Positioning and Future of Product Marketing 24:23 Tattoos in the Workplace: A Changing Perspective 25:09 Belief in Our Mission: Every Day Commitment 26:08 Navigating Skepticism and Valuing Disagreement 26:51 Embracing Learning and Marketing Communities 30:04 The Freedom of Creative Expression 35:03 The Importance of Fun in Work 40:40 Stoic Wisdom and Final Thoughts Show Notes: Navattic - State of the Interactive Demo 2025 Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Bet on Yourself: Lessons from Going Fractional as a PMM | 09 Jan 2025 | 00:56:41 | |
Are you ready to take the leap into fractional work? In this episode of We're Not Marketers, Gab, Zach, and Eric dive into the realities, challenges, and triumphs of betting on yourself as a fractional Product Marketing Manager (PMM). They explore:
From navigating imposter syndrome to celebrating small wins, this conversation is packed with practical tips and inspiring insights to help you find your footing and take control of your career. Whether you're a PMM considering the fractional path or a solopreneur looking to sharpen your approach, this episode offers the advice and encouragement you need to bet on yourself and thrive. 🎧 Tune in now and discover why "no one is coming to save you"—and how that's the best news yet. Show Notes 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:27 Betting on Yourself: The Fractional Route 01:15 Personal Experiences and Challenges 02:42 Unlearning In-House Habits 04:29 The Importance of Confidence and Mindset 09:36 Sales and Client Management 17:35 Intentional Trade-Offs and Financial Stability 30:40 Evolving Your Process and Building Confidence 31:34 Navigating Isolation and Finding Support 33:24 Balancing Work and Personal Life 34:43 Reframing Challenges and Embracing Growth 39:05 The Power of Community and Shared Experiences 43:48 Crafting Your Unique Offer and Building Foundations 47:42 Obsession and Dedication: The Path to Success 51:50 Final Thoughts and Reflections Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Simplifying stories and learning in Product Marketing w/ Peter Kortvel | 19 Dec 2024 | 00:37:33 | |
The more knowledge you have on product marketing, the better you can be an expert and have more impact on your job. Today, we’re having Peter Kortvel, a senior product marketer at Scandit and the creator of the product marketing newsletter (with 1700+ subscribers). Peter has worked as a video consultant, in startups, cofounded an IoT startup and today shows us what great product marketing should look like. He has 13+ years of experience as a marketer and believes in getting things done (we appreciate it too!). In this episode, we’re covering:
So grab a beer with us and let’s chat product marketing 🫡 Timespan: 00:00 Welcome to We're Not Marketers 00:55 Meet Our Guest: Peter Kortvel 01:55 Diving into Product Marketing 09:27 The Role of Research in Marketing 14:19 Challenges in Startup Marketing 23:49 The Role of Storytelling in Video Content 24:38 Challenges of Storytelling in B2B Marketing 26:08 Understanding the Audience's Problem 28:18 The Importance of Clear Communication 31:38 Creating Aha Moments in Marketing 36:25 The Concept of Visual Cold Calling 46:24 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| 3 different ways of making your mark as a founding PMM? (especially when everything is against you) | 12 Dec 2024 | 00:45:48 | |
Making your mark as a founding PMM is very difficult, especially when the role itself has an identity crisis. That’s why we’ve asked three product marketers from our audience to join us to talk about their experience, and how to prove themselves valuable (especially when everything wants you to fail) This week, we’re inviting Shoshana Kordova, Aphrodite Brinsmead, and Elliott Rayner to discuss the multifaceted role of product marketing In this special episode, we’re covering:
This episode was made special because we’ve asked our listeners to join us and they accepted, so please, give us feedback and send us messages! We read everything 👀 (except if it’s outbound requests, then Eric will ban you immediately) Timestamps: 01:39 Introducing the Guests 05:01 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 07:34 AI in Product Marketing 18:56 The Identity Crisis of Product Marketing 23:14 Rebranding Product Marketing: A Controversial Move 23:45 The Role of Founders in Early Product Marketing 24:36 The Importance of Product Marketing in Today's Market 26:18 Explaining Product Marketing Through Its Absence 27:06 Challenges of Being a Founding Product Marketing Manager 32:50 The 30-60-90 Day Plan Debate 38:00 Selling the Value of Product Marketing 46:02 Final Thoughts and Where to Find More Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| From Jack of All Trades to Niche Mastery in PMM, with Rob Kaminski | 05 Dec 2024 | 01:03:19 | |
Episode Description: In this episode of We're Not Marketers, we’re diving deep with Rob Kaminski, one-half of the dynamic duo behind Fletch PMM. Rob’s journey is a masterclass in transitioning from a generalist’s toolkit to a hyper-focused niche, unlocking unparalleled expertise along the way. Together, we explore the unconventional path that led Rob and his co-founder Anthony Pierri to redefine positioning and messaging for early-stage SaaS companies, focusing on the all-important homepage. What you’ll learn:
Whether you’re a product marketer looking to sharpen your craft, an aspiring fractional PMM, or just curious about what it takes to truly differentiate yourself in a crowded market, this episode is packed with insights, inspiration, and actionable advice. Tune in to hear Rob’s honest, no-holds-barred take on finding your focus and making it count. Show Notes 01:34 Introducing the Special Guest: Rob Kaminski 02:32 Rob Kaminski's Career Journey 04:36 The Role of Product Marketers 06:25 Challenges in Product Marketing 07:50 Importance of Execution in Strategy 10:41 Navigating Internal Influence 13:46 The Value of External Perspectives 17:58 Building a Fractional Service 19:57 Experimentation and Iteration 24:14 Starting and Scaling a Fractional Business 34:49 Cold Outreach and Building Expertise 35:47 The Power of Niching Down 37:51 Partnership Dynamics and Decision Making 41:57 Creating Forcing Functions and Urgency 43:51 The Importance of Specialization 50:56 Positioning and Messaging Strategies 59:42 Closing Thoughts and Farewells How to connect with Rob Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Become an Unignorable PMM by finding your superpower | 21 Nov 2024 | 00:30:46 | |
Ever felt like a misfit in product marketing? You’re not alone. In this episode of We’re Not Marketers, hosts Gab, Zach, and Eric dive deep into a hot topic for PMMs: discovering and honing your unique superpower to stand out in your role. Whether you're a product marketing veteran or new to the field, this conversation is packed with timeless advice, relatable stories, and strategies to help you identify your strengths and position yourself effectively. What’s Inside This Episode?
Who’s This Episode For? Key Takeaway: Show Notes 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 01:01 Casual Banter and Golf Talk 01:49 Understanding Your PMM Role 02:26 Personal Experiences in Product Marketing 03:33 Finding Your Competitive Strength 04:48 Exploring Different Aspects of PMM 06:57 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome 07:51 Leveraging Your Superpower 09:34 Practical Advice for PMMs 14:29 The Importance of Confidence 23:24 Final Thoughts and Conclusion Sponsor Zach Messler with Clarityrules.com Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| The True Role of PMMs with Rahim Kaba | 14 Nov 2024 | 00:49:38 | |
In this next episode of We're Not Marketers, hosts Zach, Gab, and Eric are joined by Rahim Kaba, Director and Research Analyst at Gartner, to dive into the evolving role of PMM in B2B SaaS. With over 20 years of experience in the field, Rahim shares data with perspective on the function and challenges that come with it today. Key highlights include: - The Core Identity of Product Marketers: Rahim argues that product marketers are unequivocally marketers, backed by data showing 81% of PMMs report directly to marketing teams. - Shifting Expectations and Responsibilities: Learn about the changing scope of product marketing, from content creation roles to strategic leaders in positioning and storytelling. - Strategic Insights on Launch Cadences: Rahim discusses the importance of aligning release cycles with customer adoption capabilities and how to avoid launch fatigue. - Must-Have PMM Skills: Emphasis on the significance of data literacy, with tips on upskilling and resources like the Data Literacy Project. - Build Internal Influence: Best practices to clarify PMM roles through charters and RACI models to strengthen cross-functional alignment. The conversation also touches on the growth of fractional product marketers, the implications of market trends, and advice on how PMMs can elevate their strategic influence internally. Whether you're a seasoned product marketer or just starting out, this episode is packed with practical tips, valuable research insights (umm Gartner, bro), and a clear roadmap to reinforce PMM’s impact in any company. Tune in for a ‘deep-sea of research’ dive of how PMMs can thrive in today's competitive landscape. Time Stamps 02:11 Rahim's Background and Role at Gartner 03:15 Are Product Marketers Really Marketers? 07:06 Challenges and Misunderstandings in Product Marketing 09:51 The Evolution of Product Marketing 14:56 Data Literacy in Product Marketing 18:12 Impact of Layoffs on Product Marketing 21:04 Rise of Fractional Product Marketers 23:46 Specialization in Product Marketing 25:28 The Appeal of Fractional Product Marketing 27:06 Challenges and Strategies for PMMs 28:49 Effective Product Launch Strategies 33:22 Balancing Product and Marketing Priorities 34:44 The Role of PMMs in Organizations 38:06 Building a Product Marketing Charter 44:16 Using Gartner Insights Where more to follow and connect with Rahim? Gartner for High Tech LinkedIn Page Free Gartner Webinar Recording: How Growth Organizations Source Critical PMM Skills Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Becoming the PMM 2.0: Advocacy, AI, and Product Strategy w/ Jess Petrella | 07 Nov 2024 | 00:31:28 | |
The role of the PMM is evolving and requires us to always adapt and be knowledgeable on new tech and initiatives. It can make a difference between a product marketer who is valuable and stack influence vs. someone who’s on the layoff list. Someone who keeps pushing the limit of practical product marketing and leveraging projects short-cuts to ship more is Jess Petrella, Senior Product Marketing Manager (PMM) at ZayZoon, and she has an amazing take on becoming an efficient PMM. We discussed how AI can enhance the PMMs' capacity to analyze data and analyze opportunities, the importance of proximity with product teams, and the skills necessary for PMMs to co-create product roadmaps. The episode provides practical advice for aspiring PMMs and reflects on how to navigate better the challenges of the profession, from someone who just built the function from scratch. We talk about:
Discover how you can build more influence as a PMM with the help of AI!
01:04 Discussing Product Marketing and Launches 02:16 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 03:15 The Evolution of Product Marketing 05:21 Building Influence as a Product Marketer 17:43 Leveraging AI in Product Marketing 28:53 Conclusion and Farewell Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| The PMM Horror Stories LIVE for Halloween w/ Michele Nieberding | 31 Oct 2024 | 00:39:15 | |
The worst thing about being a PMM is not having to launch a new product within 2 weeks, or drowning in sales decks. It’s all sharing the same trauma that people don’t understand product marketing. We’ve seen a lot of movement on LinkedIn about PMMs sharing horror stories. Michele Nieberding even did a talk about it at PMA Boston. And we were lucky enough to have her sharing them on the pod, just in time for Halloween 💀 our FAVORITE HOLIDAY 🎃 Michele, the director of product marketing at MetaRouter, spent almost a decade in product marketing and loves Halloween, we’re talking about:
Start feeling better about your role and discover horror stories for PMMs that would scare even ghouls and ghosts! Timespan: 00:00 Introduction and Sponsorship 01:02 Meet the Hosts 01:28 Special Guest Introduction 03:20 PMM Horror Stories: Introduction 06:42 Horror Story 1: The Freemium Nightmare 14:01 Horror Story 2: Enforcing Usage Limits 19:30 The Sleep Sack Nightmare 21:10 Customer Perspective on Luxury Baby Products 22:03 Manufacturing and Packaging Woes 24:26 A College Business Competition Fiasco 25:54 The Real Estate App Pricing Disaster 30:44 The Rebranding and Product Launch Debacle 37:29 Closing Thoughts and Farewell Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Become Sales Best Friend with Win-Loss Analysis w/ Matthew Reeves | 24 Oct 2024 | 00:43:09 | |
For PMMs, it can be difficult to have a good relationship with sales, especially in new roles. Win-loss analysis and interviews can be a good win when you see that close-lost column piling up on the CRM pipeline. But how can you take another responsibility on your to-do when you’re already swamped? Matthew Reeves, CEO and co-founder of GoldPan, runs a win-loss analysis agency. In this episode, he’s showing us:
Hear also the very unique take of Matthew on if product marketers are marketers, we can’t say we heard this one yet! Timespan: 00:00 Welcome to We're Not Marketers 00:19 Introducing Matthew Reeves, CEO of GoldPan 01:37 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 02:49 The Evolution and Challenges of Marketing 12:21 The Importance of Win-Loss Analysis 21:31 Building Rapport Between Product Marketers and Sales 34:25 Sales Missteps and Buyer Uncertainty 34:59 Understanding Product Assessment 35:34 The Role of Risk and Values in Buying Decisions 37:01 Challenges in Product Marketing 37:48 The Importance of Win-Loss Analysis 38:39 Switching Costs and Product Marketing 40:34 Effective Sales Messaging 43:14 The Buyer-Seller Dynamic 50:06 The Value of Churn Analysis 54:29 Bad Sales Experiences 01:01:33 Closing Thoughts and Future Plans Show Notes: Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| Why most startup positioning is mushy and what to do instead w/ April Dunford | 17 Oct 2024 | 01:28:35 | |
Get ready for some real talk about positioning! In this episode, we sit down with the queen of positioning herself, April Dunford. If your startup’s positioning feels a little “mushy” or your product is getting compared to everyone under the sun, this episode is for you. April shares her no-nonsense approach to tightening up your message and teaching your CEO why positioning isn’t just some abstract marketing concept—it’s the foundation of your success. Whether you’re battling internal buy-in or figuring out how to stand out in a crowded market, April’s got the answers (plus a few hilarious takes on toilets and camping). Here’s what you’re missing, by not listening:
Show Notes 01:05 Meet the Hosts and Guest Introduction 01:39 April Dunford on Product Marketing 03:25 The Role of Positioning in Startups 09:17 Building Influence as a Product Marketer 23:27 Fun and Games with April Dunford 34:26 Discovering Catan: A Board Game Revelation 35:00 Building Dreams: Choosing the Perfect Cottage Location 36:10 Torture Chamber Round: Birds or Stars? 38:42 The Cardinal Sins of Product Positioning 43:33 Selling Platforms: Value Over Features 01:00:17 The Art of Persuasive Writing in Marketing 01:04:52 Career Advice for Product Marketers 01:11:01 Engage with April Dunford: Books, Podcasts, and More Resources April Dunford’s Positioning Podcast Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||
| PMMs and the Art of Juggling Everything: Balancing Work, Life, and Mental Health | 10 Oct 2024 | 00:31:22 | |
Dealing with the chaos of being a PMM while trying to balance the rest of your life? You’re not alone. In this candid episode of We're Not Marketers, Zach, Eric, and Gab dive into the realities of managing life as a Product Marketing Manager, whether you're in-house or fractional. From overwhelming work expectations to the struggle of balancing personal life, the team discusses how to protect your mental health while handling an always-on work culture. They share personal stories, tips like setting boundaries, removing work apps from phones, and practical advice on how to deal with burnout. If you're feeling the strain of managing your career, relationships, and self-care, this episode is a must-listen. Key takeaways include:
Tune in to hear the team's perspectives on how to reclaim balance and stay sane as a PMM.
00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 01:02 The Challenges of Being a Product Marketer 02:22 In-House vs. Fractional Product Marketing 04:45 Balancing Work and Personal Life 07:41 Setting Boundaries and Mental Health 22:02 Productivity Tips and Techniques 30:50 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information. | |||