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In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, these two longtime collaborators trace how small decisions compound over decades to build momentum.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia we open with Dan's annual London trip and a look at how AI is quietly transforming entire industries the way automation once reshaped farming, freeing up labor for higher-value work decade after decade. Dan connects this to his MELT framework, the idea that money, energy, labor, and transportation are where AI's real impact lands rather than entertainment. The conversation moves naturally from continents to careers, showing how economic shifts and personal turning points follow surprisingly similar patterns.
Dean shares the experience of rereading 30 years of personal journals, starting from entry number one in April 1996, months before he ever met Dan. He describes "vector changes," the moments a single conversation redirected his career path, from tennis to real estate to building a multimillion-dollar coaching business with his mentor Joe Stump. Dan adds his own distinction between guessing and betting, pointing out how rarely people back their predictions with actual stakes, a useful filter for evaluating advice in any business.
I was struck by how a journal that started with no plan became, thirty years later, documented proof of patterns worth studying. Listen for the moment Dean finally explains what a vector really is.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
Dan argues AI's real economic impact isn't entertainment, it's reshaping money, energy, labor, and transportation, his "MELT" framework.
Dean started journaling in April 1996, and on page 22 of journal number one, met Dan Sullivan for the first time.
Dan's test for any prediction: ask if there's real money on the table. Most people are confident guessers but unwilling bettors.
Cyrus McCormick's mechanical reaper let one farmer and a horse do the work of 14 men, a preview of what AI may do today.
Dean calls career-changing conversations "vector changes" single moments that redirected him from tennis to real estate to coaching.
Dean's partnership with mentor Joe Stumpf took their combined coaching business from a few million dollars a year to many times that.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
**Dean Jackson**
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan.
**Dan Sullivan**
Mr. Jackson.
**Dean Jackson**
Back from
**Dan Sullivan**
London.
**Dean Jackson**
Across the pond, yes. How was your trip?
**Dan Sullivan**
We had a terrific time. Yeah, we were gone from Sunday of one week until Thursday of the next.
**Dean Jackson**
Wow.
**Dan Sullivan**
So pretty good.
**Dean Jackson**
What annual trip is this? Because I know you go every year in May.
**Dan Sullivan**
Probably 19, 19 years.
**Dean Jackson**
Wow.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Look at that. Well, there you go. Is it as you remember? It's pretty interesting because London, like all the cities has gone through a lot of change over the 19 years for sure.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah, but it's got 2000 years of history. It's the one thing that you're reminded of when you go to London. It's been a very important city for 20 centuries. I mean from the beginning it's because of its location and on the river, the Thames. And the Thames is a tidal river so the tide changes twice a day. It goes one way and then it goes the other way and that saved a lot of manpower, saved a lot of probably- All right. Hurry
**Dean Jackson**
Up, get it on, get it on the train.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. It's just interesting. It's funny about five years ago, Babson and I did one of those hereditary tests where you're
**Dean Jackson**
Just coming from- I know, the DNA
**Dan Sullivan**
Test. Yeah. 23 and Me was, there's a number of them, but 23andMe was the one that we used. And growing up in my family, I mean we're all immigrants being Americans and we were told that we were equal quarters German, French, English and Irish.
**Dean Jackson**
Wow.
**Dan Sullivan**
When the test came back, it was 55% from London.
**Dean Jackson**
Oh, wow.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. Which could have been German, French, Irish and English.
**Dean Jackson**
Right, right, exactly.
**Dan Sullivan**
It basically said that the biggest influence was from London and I went there 62 years ago and first time that I ever went to London was November of 64 where I made my outward bound trip. So that was in Scotland, but I spent two or three weeks in London before I went north. And it was a really dirty city back then because they were still recovering even 20 years later they were still recovering from the war. There was vast sections of the city that had to be completely rebuilt and they hadn't gotten around to cleaning anything up. So Whitehall was Black Hall. Oh
**Dean Jackson**
Boy, yes.
**Dan Sullivan**
All the government buildings were really dark and dingy and you just had a sense that it was getting ready for the Beatles. Getting ready
**Dean Jackson**
For
**Dan Sullivan**
The
**Dean Jackson**
Beatles. That's
**Dan Sullivan**
Right. Yeah. And that sort of changed things culturally and a lot of other things. But I remember I just loved it when I got there and you could do ... I had one of those books. I think this is quite a bit before your time, but you could go to Europe on $5 a day. So they had Fromer, I
**Dean Jackson**
Think the- I remember seeing the books. Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
And it was London on $5 a day and you could get room and board and well, you could get a room plus breakfast.
**Dean Jackson**
I think that's how Rick Steve started kind of ... That was what inspired him I think was seeing those same kind of things because he created that Europe through the back door kind of approach.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. And that just showed you the strength of the North American economy, which would be Canada and the US against the currency, what the pound was, in Europe, what the French Frank was because you could do Paris on $5 a day. You could do Rome on $5 a day and you actually could, you actually could. I probably allowed for $7 a day. I probably-
**Dean Jackson**
Living luxuriously.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Give yourself a buffer. Right.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. But you can do a lot of walking in London so you don't have to-
**Dean Jackson**
Oh, you know, Dan, I remember the first time that you and I were in London together
**Dan Sullivan**
And we walked to the-
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, we walked all over the place. We found that beautiful old bookstore. Those were great. You imagine that was a highlight.
**Dan Sullivan**
And of course our hotel is our favorite hotel is right off Piccadilly Circus. So it's about
**Dean Jackson**
Four-minute walk.
**Dan Sullivan**
It's called Hamyard.
**Dean Jackson**
Oh, okay. Yep.
**Dan Sullivan**
And Hamyard was one of the worst sections of Soho. Soho was really kind of the ... It was sort of criminal. A lot of the criminal activity in London was out of Soho prostitution, drugs always nightlife. They always had a big nightlife, but part of the nightlife was stealing things overnight and everything else. And Hamyard was one of the worst. It was this old rundown, just a bunch of warehouses and badly kept up stores and badly kept up living quarters. And this couple, the Kemps, K-E-M-P, husband and wife team, they started about I think 30 years ago and they started to take over, first of all, just rooming houses like places where you would have a big house and it might have five or 10 apartments and they started with three or four of them and they completely refurbished them and made them into luxury starting out in the Kensington area, Mayfair, Kensington area.
They did I
**Dean Jackson**
Think
**Dan Sullivan**
Three or four of them. And then they took over an old 19th century woman's hospital and they converted it into a hotel coven garden and then Charlotte Street, then Soho and then Haymarket and they have five major hotels and they're building new one out. They're building a new one out in the Canary Wharf area. And they have a new one going up. They have three of them in New York. So they have nine major hotels now, but the hamyard is the jewel in the crown for them. So spectacular and they put in, they have the hotel but then the whole part of it is also condos and they-
**Dean Jackson**
Oh, nice. That's like- They created
**Dan Sullivan**
All ...
**Dean Jackson**
I think all the ... That's the model I think that they have
**Dan Sullivan**
To do in
**Dean Jackson**
Order to pay for that. Almost all
**Dan Sullivan**
Hotels,
**Dean Jackson**
Real estate. Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. But if we were to ever have a place in London, I think we'd look into what's available there for a condo because it's a nine minute walk to Waterstone's, my favorite cookstore in
**Dean Jackson**
The world. Oh yeah. There you go. I really love the ... I don't know whether you've been to the Four Seasons at Trinity Square. No,
**Dan Sullivan**
Haven't been there
**Dean Jackson**
Yet. So, so nice. Love it. Right at Tower Bridge.
**Dan Sullivan**
And they're in a state of total political confusion right now.
**Dean Jackson**
That's what I hear. Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
Oh yeah. I mean, it's kind of dismal actually reading. We get the telegraph at our ... When we get up in the morning, the telegraph is up to our door and we go to breakfast and read it. They're between two stools right now. It's really question. I think both of the traditional parties are actually going out of existence. There's a new party called the Reform Party and local elections, which are called council elections. It's a parliamentary government so it doesn't really translate into American terminology,
**Dean Jackson**
But
**Dan Sullivan**
They're all local areas and their elections don't happen at the same time as the national elections do, but it was just a wipe out. Labor just got totally wiped out and they're asking the prime minister to resign. His own party is asking him to resign so they can get a newly leader and everything else. But it's really pathetic and they're just one of those periods. I mean, Britain's 2000 ... It's an old country and they've had ups and downs, but I would say they're in a down right now.
**Dean Jackson**
Are they going woke type?
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
It's labor and labor is left and left is woke. But they've opened the borders so they have
The ... I mean, the US, when Trump came in, it just stopped. I mean, there's been nothing. There's been nothing for almost a year and a half now, which showed that they could do it. They said, "Well, it's almost impossible to close the border." I said, "Well, if you have a commitment to just enforce the laws that are actually in place, it's quite easy." Yeah, right. It's actually quite easy. You don't need new laws. You just apply the laws that they're ... And of course, there's a lot of anti-Trumpism as part of the ... Yeah, he has an unusual ability to get people to hate him.
**Dean Jackson**
Oh yeah, for sure. How's the New York experiment going with Mundani? Well, he
**Dan Sullivan**
Hasn't quite run out of other people's money yet, but it'll happen within about three or four months. There's just no money. I mean, the economy of New York City is about the same as the economy of Canada.
**Dean Jackson**
That's funny. Same as California, right? I think California is maybe eclipses Canada even.
**Dan Sullivan**
No, California is equal to France. California, it's big. I mean, the population of California and Canada is about the same. It's about 40 million and everything like that. But yeah, I think that the savior for certainly in the United States, I think in Canada is going to be AI. If you just apply AI to everything that already exists in the economy, you're just going to get gains in efficiency and productivity.
**Dean Jackson**
I heard someone the other day, I was watching a video and they were describing how AI is really, if we just replace AI as a concept with technology doing a portion of this- Technological
**Dan Sullivan**
Improvement. Technological
**Dean Jackson**
Improvement. Yeah. So there's 10 steps in doing something and they were likening it to the way agriculture worked, that the farmer was responsible for thinking what to plant and knowing when to plant it. And where to plant
**Dan Sullivan**
And where
**Dean Jackson**
To- Yeah, where to plant it. And then below the surface, the technology that they were using was soil and soil did its magic, whatever it did over months and months of doing. And then at the end, the farmer knew when to harvest and how to harvest and prepare it for market. But eight out of the 10 steps or whatever were done by technology and I think that's a really good way of thinking about soil couldn't do it on its own. It required flowers.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. Well, you had the great example of going back in your history and I really enjoyed your podcast where you talked about going back to 1976, 1986, 2000. I really appreciated that. Yeah. That's
**Dean Jackson**
Great. You were
**Dan Sullivan**
Very articulate, very, very- Oh,
**Dean Jackson**
Thanks, Dan. I mean, that's-
**Dan Sullivan**
Very wise and articulate.You were made for the medium, I can tell you that.
**Dean Jackson**
Made for media. That's great. No, for that media. For that media.
**Dan Sullivan**
You're made for it, yeah. But the big thing, you had the Cyrus McCormick example that you used. And he with one farmer, one Reaper, one McCormick Reaper and a horse- Could do
**Dean Jackson**
The work of 14 men.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah, 14. Yeah. And in 1900, 50% of the US workforce was involved with agriculture, food production, and now it's 3%, now it's 3% and vastly-
**Dean Jackson**
90% of the world,
**Dan Sullivan**
Right? Yeah, vastly more. Yeah. And I think that's a really great example of what happened to agriculture. I mean, we have the big coach, the big farmers are from Saskatchewan, they don't even use the word acre. They use sections. I think a section is 2,000 acres. You have 10 sections or you have 20 sections, but it's all automated. I mean, it's not humans doing that. Automated tractors are doing the plowing and the harvesting and everything like that. They're not doing it. I think it's really probably if you look at any part of the economy where automation has had the greatest impact, it would be agriculture.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, I bet.
**Dan Sullivan**
Because food is so important. Well,
**Dean Jackson**
And it's physical. I mean, there's no way to digitize it, right? That's the funny thing.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
But those-
**Dan Sullivan**
I mean, it's not a topic that the mainstream media want to cover because it's good news and they're not into good news, but in every sector of the industrial economy, whether it's manufacturing, whether it's agriculture, whether it's logistics, you're just seeing massive applications of AI to everything, every aspect of it. And you're starting to see the results already. I think the results are starting to come ... I mean, that's where people are really using that. The other part of AI is sort of entertainment. It's
**Dean Jackson**
Sort
**Dan Sullivan**
Of entertainment, but that's not where the real productive impact is happening. I think it's happening in money, how money as an industry, which is ... I mean, it's really the major industry is how you can get money as fast as possible, as cheaply as possible to the people who are going to use it to create something more productive. And then you have energy, which is at the very center and it's being used there and labor, just making labor more productive. And then transportation, those are the melt, that's my melt concept.
**Dean Jackson**
Right. Yeah. You were mentioning the video that I put up yesterday that I've decided that because over the last ... I think I mentioned to you, we've both had birthdays since last time we spoke. I turned 60, you turned 82.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah, you caught up a little bit for about nine days, nine days and nine, 10 days, and then I noticed you over my shoulder and I stretched out another year.
**Dean Jackson**
Right, that's right. Better get on it. That's right.
**Dan Sullivan**
But
**Dean Jackson**
In looking back, I think I shared with you, I was over the kind of month leading up to my birthday, I started looking, just taking little random samples from all my ... I have hundreds of journals. I started in April of 1996, like officially journaling and I started looking back and there's some really great insights and things that it was really fascinating to look back and see and I started thinking about just reflecting on some of that and then I went all the way back to journal number one and I realized that I think that the best way to do this is to go back to journal number one and watch the story unfold with wisdom of having 30 years of knowing how it ends. It's really interesting, Dan, because in April when I started the journal, I did not know who Dan Sullivan was, but on page 22 of journal number one-
**Dan Sullivan**
How did you even breathe?
**Dean Jackson**
Exactly.
But on page 22 of journal number one was the day I went to meet with Alan Kerns at the strategic coach offices and he was in a workshop and we were going to have dinner after the workshop. I just think it's interesting if I look at the ... You would certainly be on my Mount Rushmore of most influential people over the 30 years and that you showed up on page 22. So that was in the spring and I had my first strategic coach workshop in the fall of that year. It's amazing to see the through lines. Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
Well, I think that really interesting part of what you ... It came through, Babs showed it to me last night and so we played it, you were getting near bedtime and we played the whole thing. And the most interesting thing was the question that your Finnish buddy, Swedish.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah,
**Dan Sullivan**
Swedish. Swedish buddy asked, he said," I'm the 180th ranked tennis player and he says, I'm nothing really.
**Dean Jackson**
"I'm living hand to mouth, yep.
**Dan Sullivan**
But if I'm the 180th best businessman in the world, I'm a billionaire. I mean-
**Dean Jackson**
Really? That was his question. If you
**Dan Sullivan**
Went back and looked at it, he might not be a billionaire because we didn't have the number of billionaires at that time that we do today. The IPO, you know that Elon Musk's IPO is coming up for SpaceX and they think this is going to make him a trillionaire that cross over the trillionaire. So that's a big deal. That is
**Dean Jackson**
A big deal. And the thing, the fact is in 1996 he hadn't really done anything yet.
**Dan Sullivan**
Oh no. He was working at a car wash in North Toronto.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah. I wonder when did PayPal first happen? Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. I don't know. My technological history is getting cloudy as I look back. It's in the midst of time now some of those breakthroughs. But anyway, yeah we're in a big period. We're in a big period right now. Anyway, but it's interesting to do that. I'm on day number 172 of my new time system and one of the crucial things, we're writing the next book which is called Yesterday's Create Tomorrow. So it's not yesterday, but it's yesterday's because it's the accumulation of great yesterday.
**Dean Jackson**
Yesterday's Create Tomorrow. That's
**Dan Sullivan**
Really good. And anyway, but the big thing was to get the graphic on it and so Hamish McDonald, my cartoonist and I have been working on this and I said," I got to get a good graphic. "And it's really interesting we had a session on Friday, two days ago and I said," You know something, tomorrow doesn't actually exist.
**Dean Jackson**
"Right. I was just saying that today, like looking back, the video that I shot, I was actually at the table where I would go to journal in that time at the Eagle Ridge Mall and I realized I said to my friend Josh this morning that you realize even over 30 years there's only ever been today. I mean at that time- And yesterday. Well, exactly. Yeah, right, exactly. But I mean-
**Dan Sullivan**
I mean your journaling is basically a record of
**Dean Jackson**
Yesterday. Yesterday, yes.
**Dan Sullivan**
So you have the experience of yesterday, but you only have the opportunity of today basically. I mean, you can take action today. I've got three or four things on my schedule for today, but I've never actually had any experience of tomorrow.
**Dean Jackson**
Right, that's exactly right.
**Dan Sullivan**
Everybody is obsessed about tomorrow, like I said, you're obsessed about something that doesn't exist.
**Dean Jackson**
Talk
**Dan Sullivan**
A little bit about journaling because I've been a great journalist. I turned my life around with journaling to talk to you about what it does for you.
**Dean Jackson**
I think that a journal is a great place to think about your thinking and to have these is where I work things out and hatch my evil schemes, but I look at the most impactful things are when I'm thinking about my thinking and there's a lot of patterns and things that I would do like I used to in and it's great I'm excited about starting at journal number one and going forward and recording insights because I get to see there it is, that's the genesis of this and the book that I was reading became this thought, which became this ad, which became this empire, right? I look at the things like when I look at this journal number one from a context of only looking-
**Dan Sullivan**
96, right? 1996
**Dean Jackson**
April of 1996,
**Dan Sullivan**
Yes.
**Dean Jackson**
And so I look at all the things that had not ... I hadn't met Dan Sullivan yet at that stage, right? But it was months away from my first strategic coach workshop. So I'm going to be very interested to see-
**Dan Sullivan**
Who was your first coach?
**Dean Jackson**
Gary Motterset.
**Dan Sullivan**
Again, Gary- Who's still a coach, who's
**Dean Jackson**
Still a coach. Yeah, exactly. And still coaches the 10 times and is in the Free Zone group.
Yeah, he's in Free Zone in Toronto. So when I come up for Free Zone, I'll go to the 10 Times workshop the day after, which Gary is workshop. Yeah. So the first time when you started doing Free Zone in Toronto and we started going there, Gary and I, we were mentioning we had a real full circle moment there because I think that might have been his first year of coaching somewhere around there, but you look at the through lines of it and I think that I see on reflection the importance of the betting portion of guessing and betting because there's a lot of guessing and a lot of correct guessing that I can see that I have done, but if I New then what I know now, there are places where you could go all in on that bet and have a different outcome.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. It's really interesting just as a sidelight here. Whenever I get involved these days it's mainly political as political discussions and somebody says, "Well, this is what's going to happen now." And I says, "Now, this is what's going to happen now. This is what you're saying, right? Yeah, this is what's going to happen. Is this a guess or is it a bet? I can hear the guess. Is there a bet here? Okay. Because if I was to say $10,000 that you're wrong, would you be up to the bet?
**Dean Jackson**
Right.
**Dan Sullivan**
And very
**Dean Jackson**
Few
**Dan Sullivan**
People are up to the bet.
**Dean Jackson**
People
**Dan Sullivan**
Are very confident about the guests, not so confident about the bet. Yeah,
**Dean Jackson**
I think you're right.
**Dan Sullivan**
So it's a good way whenever people are predicting the future, they're saying, "It's going to happen, this is going to happen." I said, "That sounds like a guess, but is there money on the table here? Are we talking about money?" And very seldom is there money on the table
**Dean Jackson**
Or going or going all in. I'm excited to go on this journey because I think it's going to be very ... I'm going to get a lot of insight out of going through and seeing what the next 30 years looks like realizing that ... Well, first of all, at that stage, I didn't even have a sense of what 30 years means. That was my whole life. I was 29. I was longer than I had been alive in April of 2016. Well, the
**Dan Sullivan**
Other thing is the first five or six years are a bit hazy.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, right.
**Dan Sullivan**
No, I mean, I
**Dean Jackson**
Started
**Dan Sullivan**
Thinking about my thinking when I was eight years old.
**Dean Jackson**
Oh yeah, right. That's what I mean. You're exactly right. Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
In other words, I can remember I said at six years old, at six years old,
I wasn't conscious, but at eight years old, I just wrote a piece called Metacognition. You know what metacognition is? I don't know if you've heard the term. It's actually thinking about your thinking. That's basically Latin. If you want to make it official, translate it into Latin, but it's basically ... But it's just thinking about your thinking and basically that's what coach is. It's a whole bunch of little mazes that we put you through in the course of going through the maze and getting through the maze, you thought about your thinking. But I think this is really an excellent ... It's really wealth that you have here. If you think about you have 30 years of records of you thinking about your thinking. That's
**Dean Jackson**
Exactly it.
**Dan Sullivan**
That's real wealth.
**Dean Jackson**
Yes.
**Dan Sullivan**
Very few people have that.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah. Wisdom. I mean, I think that's part of the thing, right? I often wondered about that. What is the official evidence, but evidence of wisdom, is that ...
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. You actually have evidence that you say ... Well, I was thinking about this 30 years ago, and I said, "Show me the evidence that you were thinking
**Dean Jackson**
About. " Right. Oh, exactly. Yeah, there you go. I think that is absolutely true. I can't wait till nine word email makes its first appearance. And the day I discover Homer McDonald in USA Today over breakfast and have the idea that stops your divorce might be a great thing. And I think about that, that hadn't happened yet. Money making websites hadn't happened, none of it. You
**Dan Sullivan**
Introduced an interesting word into your podcast last night and that was vector. You have
**Dean Jackson**
These vectors. Vector changing. Yes.
**Dan Sullivan**
Vector changing. It's interesting as you go through where the nine word email is a vector. It's a vector. Yeah. Can you tell our listening audience here what a vector is?
**Dean Jackson**
Well, I think that the vector is like the trajectory- I think of a
**Dan Sullivan**
Straight line. I
**Dean Jackson**
Always think of
**Dan Sullivan**
A vector being a straight line.
**Dean Jackson**
Okay. Going in a new
**Dan Sullivan**
Direction. Going
**Dean Jackson**
In a
**Dan Sullivan**
New direction.
**Dean Jackson**
Right. And I think that's exactly it up until in 1986 I was on the path of pursuing tennis and in one conversation with one person on one night, a completely new thought entered my head in a way that really I said it in the video resonated with my soul. I really got this that to me was the immediate unlock and that was in the spring and by the fall I started my real estate career in the fall of 1988. So that was a complete vector changer and that I went on that for eight years pursuing my real estate career in Toronto until I met Joe Stump and Joe Stump provided as a relationship the opportunity to have a different vector change of not growing a real estate business in Toronto but taking the things that I was doing and using them to help grow thousands of real estate businesses all over North America.
**Dan Sullivan**
Any market.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah. So that was the vector change out of my real estate straight line to what was a 13 year path of growing a real estate coaching business. And I learned so much in that, by the way, Joe Stump would be right beside you there on my Mount Rushmore over the 30 years. He's the reason that I started journaling in earnest as a serious thing.
**Dan Sullivan**
How old would he become?
**Dean Jackson**
He's 10 years older than me. So he just turned 70. Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. All these young people I'm surrounded by.
**Dean Jackson**
Right, exactly. These youngsters. But that was an amazing thing. I look at Joe Stump as a, what is that term in space where you can just like skip 10 years ahead. Like he had 10 years ahead of building a ... Because all the time I was building my real estate business, he was building his speaking and event business and to be able to hop on that as a vehicle that was already 10 years in the thing and we together were able to take that from three or four million a year to a year. So it's really giddy with excitement of being able to relive these with the gift of knowing how the story ends. T me, when I was talking about all these things that didn't even exist then, like JK Rowling had not yet released the first Harry Potter book. JK Rowling, while I was journaling here, JK Rowling was sitting in a cafe in Edinburgh writing Harry Potter on notebooks and now look what that ended up becoming.
I mean, it's pretty ...
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah, it's interesting. One thing about London, there's lots of theaters, but a lot of theaters are never available because they have lawn running shows. For example, the theater that has Le Mezerob, it's 40 years now that is 40 years.
**Dean Jackson**
Lemez has been running for 40 years. 40
**Dan Sullivan**
Years. Yeah. It's right around
**Dean Jackson**
The corner
**Dan Sullivan**
From our hotel. It's two minute walk to La Mez and it's 40 years and there's Banham of the Opera is still going. It's like 36, 35, 36 years. So there's these theaters and you say, "Well, there's lots of theaters, but they're not actually available. They're actually..." But there's one right at the intersection of Charing Cross and Shopsbury, two huge avenues in London and they have a cross, they cross and there's a palace theater there and it's got another story that she wrote about Harry Potter when Harry Potter is 40 years old and he's a civil servant.
**Dean Jackson**
Wow.
**Dan Sullivan**
We went to see it and it's in two sections. So in an evening you would go for the first two hours, then you'd take a break and then you take another two hours and it's been going for five, six years now and it's not very good. I mean, it's got all the technology that they can pull off now with wires and people flying and everything like that, but it's not very good, but it's Harry Potter. She put a stamp on the world if you use it. And I think in Orlando do they have a Harry Potter? Like is there a whole Harry
**Dean Jackson**
Potter? Yeah, that Universal has a whole Universal.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. And it'll go forever. I mean, it'll go forever. Potter world. And the reason is because the books are actually fun. I mean, I read all the books, I saw all the movies and everything
**Dean Jackson**
Else. I bought Dan and I have a box set of the Harry Potter books because I was in a cafe at Barnes & Noble in Lakeland and I saw it was the first time that JK Rowling had passed a billion dollars. She was like the first self-made UK billionaire aside from the queen or whatever. And I thought it was funny because as I was sitting there reading that article and I'd seen other things from her and I realized that she hand writes these books in notebooks and I saw an end cap display with the box set of all of the Harry Potter books and I had an immediate like visual anchor of that's what a billion dollars looks like is right there. That collection, that is evidence of a billion dollars that made its way from her brain down to her fingers-
**Dan Sullivan**
Notebook.
**Dean Jackson**
... out to a notebook and into these books and turned into a billion dollars and it's just such a ... Yeah, it's amazing.
**Dan Sullivan**
Kind of tells you how the world is actually created.
**Dean Jackson**
Well, at first it starts with a thought, right? I mean, everything ... First, I imagine that Jeff Bezos had ... There's probably a Genesis thought that Jeff Bezos had.
**Dan Sullivan**
Have you seen any of the videos of him explaining how you've become a billionaire?
**Dean Jackson**
No, I have not.
**Dan Sullivan**
Because AOC, who's a candidate for possibly ... Said, "It's not possible to earn a billion dollars." She said, "You can only do it through illegal means." Okay. And he says, "Well, let's take that thought apart." He says, "You got a hamburger place. You create really great hamburgers and then you're doing really well with the first one and then you do the second one and that works. And then the third one works. And then number 100 really works as even better than number one." He says, "After a while, you got a billion dollars."
**Dean Jackson**
Right. That's exactly- And you earned it.
**Dan Sullivan**
And you earned it. Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
I just remember where ASC- But
**Dan Sullivan**
I love her. I hope she's the candidate. Yeah. I mean, Kamala might be the candidate and I would be totally for it. AOC, I really want her.
**Dean Jackson**
Oh yeah, just for the blooper reel. I mean, my favorite ever, Dan, was when her elation that New York City, that Amazon was not- Turned
**Dan Sullivan**
Down Amazon.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah. And now those billions in tax credits can go to teachers and stuff without realizing
**Dan Sullivan**
That's not- But I really want her out there. I really want her out there and full bloom and at 50, she'll still sound like a 15 year old. You know what I mean? That's my prediction. I don't think she'll ever make it to Senator. I don't think she'll ever make it to Senator. I think she'll be the new Maxine Waters. You know Maxine Waters?
**Dean Jackson**
Yep. Congress for Life.
**Dan Sullivan**
Right. A Congressman for Life and very compelling, very emotionally directed and just completely run. And it's almost like you just want to see her going for the next 50 or 60 years attractive, compelling, completely wrong.
**Dean Jackson**
It's almost like my thing was just thinking, "Oh, bless your heart.
**Dan Sullivan**
Bless your heart." Yeah. I mean, I just want you to always be part of our life.
**Dean Jackson**
Exactly. Those billions of dollars can go to teachers and service police and public
**Dan Sullivan**
Services. Yeah. You're an American landmark.
**Dean Jackson**
I love it. It's all in the inflection, Dan. It sounds flattering.
**Dan Sullivan**
Entertainment can come in all forms.
**Dean Jackson**
Yes, you're exactly right.
**Dan Sullivan**
Speaking of which, we went to see a musical and this is on my birthday on the 19th of May if anyone's interested in sending me presence in the future is the 19th of May.
**Dean Jackson**
Or retroactively. I mean, yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. We saw High Society, which is a Cold Porter musical from ...
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
And it was the most spectacular musical I think I've ever seen in my life because what they did, what they realized was that first of all, it's about rich people and they changed it from Philadelphia. It was originally based on a novel called the Philadelphia Story, which was about upper class wealthy society in Philadelphia at a certain point, but they switched it to Newport, Rhode Island, where
**Dean Jackson**
They have- Have you ever been to Newport? Oh
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
Where the cottages have 60 rooms, palaces.
**Dean Jackson**
Yes.
**Dan Sullivan**
But anyway, what they did is they reworked the story so that it's up to date, you feel it's up to date. But the other thing is that they included a lot more of Cool Porter. The Cool Porter is the composer of all the music and the lyricist of all the music and they brought it up and they just have amazing talent. They threw amazing talent at it. They had like 28 people in the cast, full orchestra, clever scenery and everything else and not cynical at all, just completely straightforward about wealthy people dealing with their lives.
And it was just so refreshing, but there's a particular singer and he's about 50 now. His name is Julian Ovenden. He's the most spectacular singer and it's sort of a throwback kind of singing. He sings out of the 1940s, 1950s. He just has this great sense. Do you know the tradition that they have in London called the Proms and the Last Night of the Proms? No, it happens at the Royal Albert Hall, which is right at Q Gardens. It's in Q Gardens and the Royal Albert Hall is just this big massive concert hall, but in October, I think it happens in October, they have the last night at the proms, promenades, promenade. And just go to YouTube and look up the last night of the proms, Julian Ovenden, O-V-E-N-D-E-N,
**Dean Jackson**
O-V-E-N-D-E-N.
**Dan Sullivan**
And the specific show was Rogers and Hammerstein. So they did the musical music of Rogers and Hammerstein, Carousel, Oklahoma, South Pacific, King and I, Sound of Music, they created all this. He's just a spectacular singer and he's in the cast, but there's about five or six other singers and it was just a magical evening because it takes a real gift to take ... They're going through the dialogue and at a certain point you have this movement from a dialogue into a song and the bridges between ... It's like they'll have a concept to say something and then what they're saying in the sentence becomes the first, you know, it becomes the beginning of a song and then they sing it and it's just flawless. It's just one of the most remarkable evenings I've ever spent.
**Dean Jackson**
Wow.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Amazing. Okay.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. It's called High Society, the term. I mean, it was done, but what they did is that they added six more songs, which Cole Porter wrote for other shows, but they built them into this show and the dancing was fantastic, everything, just terrific talent.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah. That's amazing too, right? Like you think about these theaters, like the durability of things when you think like you were mentioning how Le Miz has been playing for 40 years in the same theater.
**Dan Sullivan**
And I
**Dean Jackson**
Think it
**Dan Sullivan**
Started there. I think it started there. I mean, it's too French.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
The people who created the show, it might have started in Paris, but it became really big in London. I
**Dean Jackson**
Remember in the 80s when Garth Drabinsky was bringing the Phantom of the Opera and Cats, that had a long run in Toronto.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. And then he created a show called Showboat. He took a movie that was called Showboat and he turned it into a musical and it was at the Ford Theater, which is way up in North York. I mean, in Toronto, that section of Toronto, which I always think you have to get shots to go there, you have to take oxygen with you.
**Dean Jackson**
We must see your papers, all your papers in order.
**Dan Sullivan**
Can I see your passport, please? Right, exactly. And then he took over that big theater in New York and he completely revamped it. His whole notion was in every big city in North America he was going to have a theater and then he was going to create new place and he would just run them through from theater to ... It was a great ... I mean, Garth Rabinski, if he had been better at his bookkeeping, it would have been
**Dean Jackson**
A
**Dan Sullivan**
Major ...
**Dean Jackson**
The Pantages Theater, right?
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. Oh yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
I mean, yeah, he completely revamped the whole ... That was the Winter Garden and the Elgin. I was just driving down Yun Street yesterday and there they were the two theaters and they discovered this whole Vaudeville theater that was above another theater and they completely refurbished it and everything like that. He was a great ... I'm sorry that he got into trouble. He should have just-
**Dean Jackson**
I just have a vague recollection that he did, but I don't know. I don't know
**Dan Sullivan**
Why. Yeah, he was a little sloppy in his bookkeeping and he ended up getting into trouble. You should do a better job. If you're going to be great, make sure your bookkeeping supports it.
**Dean Jackson**
What's up with Jeff Madoffs?
**Dan Sullivan**
Well, still then they think they're going for Broadway now, but they've changed their strategy that they need a real star. They got to drive it with a star and they have three or four names who I don't recognize, but it'd be like someone like Drake or someone like that.
**Dean Jackson**
Oh, really? Wow. Okay.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. I'm not saying they know that. I'm not saying that's who it is. I'm just using it as an example or Usher. My acquaintance with modern pop music starts ends at around 1975.
**Dean Jackson**
Oh, that's funny.
**Dan Sullivan**
When you were nine.
**Dean Jackson**
When I was nine, what was it? Disco Duck, Dan? Is that when that was? Disco Duck.
**Dan Sullivan**
Talking Heads. I think Talking Heads was the ...
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
My last acquaintance. I still think he's one of the most talented people.
**Dean Jackson**
I just saw an interview with him. He's got new music coming out now. That's funny, but he seems very thoughtful.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. I mean, he's a real creative guy. He's a bit like Paul Simon. Paul Simon really, he had about a good 40, 50 years of pretty new stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Awesome.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. Well, we've covered a lot of ... I think you got to bring back Cyrus McCormick because Cyrus
**Dean Jackson**
McCormick- Oh, Cyrus will show up. Yeah.
**Dan Sullivan**
Because Cyrus really tells you what happens with technology, I think probably more than any other person and the talk, all the talk about AI getting rid of jobs and everything. Well, he got rid of all sorts of jobs and exploded the US economy because the 14 people that he freed up from agriculture were able to go off and do other things.
**Dean Jackson**
That's amazing. Well, I realize I will see you next-
**Dan Sullivan**
I'll actually see you in person.
**Dean Jackson**
Yes, exactly. I am super excited about sharing at CoachCon.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah. Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
So that's going to be a fun breakout.
**Dan Sullivan**
Kathy Davis has a good spotlight for you.
**Dean Jackson**
Oh, that's great. I'm very excited.
**Dan Sullivan**
Yeah.
**Dean Jackson**
Yeah, I'm very excited. All right. Well, when do you arrive?
**Dan Sullivan**
I don't know the answer to that question.
**Dean Jackson**
Of course you don't, nor should you, Dan. It's not today. It's not today. It's not today.
**Dan Sullivan**
When
**Dean Jackson**
The time arrives, that'll be a good yesterday. I mean-
**Dan Sullivan**
When I get there, it'll be today.
**Dean Jackson**
That's exactly right. And I'll be there right beside you. Perfect.
**Dan Sullivan**
Okay. Thank you.
**Dean Jackson**
Okay, Dan. We'll see you. Bye.
**Dan Sullivan**
Okay, bye.
Ep175: Money, Scent, and the Art of the Did List
mercredi 20 mai 2026 • Durée 01:03:55
The most enduring business lessons often come wrapped in the most unexpected stories.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, Dan and Dean kick off with a wide-ranging trip through Canyon Ranch recoveries, golf course geometry, and a viral coyote-versus-governor parable that perfectly illustrates why California and Texas have taken such different economic paths. From there, Dean shares how a podcast about restaurant scent marketing turned into a live experiment: within 24 hours he had a book concept, a cover, and leads coming in at a dollar each for a title called Smells That Sell. Dan adds color from his neighbor, a professional perfumer who revealed that Mexico ranks #1 globally for scent responsiveness while Canada sits dead last.
The conversation deepens as Dan walks through David McWilliams’ book Money, tracing currency from 5,000-year-old Sumerian barley loans to Hamilton’s genius design of the U.S. dollar, and why McWilliams dismisses Bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme that only makes sense when priced in dollars. Both Dan and Dean also reflect on their personal productivity experiments: Dan at week 22 of his “looking back” daily system, and Dean six months into his “What would I like to did today?” morning ritual, with sleep anchors and a captain’s-announcement practice that—as he describes it—puts every cell in his body on alert.
This one covers a lot of ground, but the thread running through all of it is the same: agency. Whether it’s scent science, ancient money systems, or a daily captain’s briefing to yourself, the practical question is always the same: what can you actually control in the next hundred minutes? Have a listen.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
Dean launched a book concept, cover, and lead-generation ad for Smells That Sell within 24 hours of hearing a podcast about restaurant scent marketing.
A professional perfumer’s global data reveals Mexico as the world’s most scent-responsive market—and Canada as dead last, partly because noses freeze.
Dan’s “look back” daily system at week 22: measuring only the last 24 hours eliminates the gap and gives you real agency over what you actually control.
Dean’s “What would I like to did today?” morning ritual, paired with lights-out at 11 PM and phone-in-box until noon, has measurably improved his sleep and readiness scores over six months.
Ep174: Guessing, Betting, and the AI Attention Economy
mercredi 13 mai 2026 • Durée 01:05:53
The most valuable currency in an AI-saturated world isn't data or content, it's the 1,000 minutes of attention each person has available every single day.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, Dan shares a new thinking tool he's been developing with entrepreneurs: Intentional Times Accidental, a framework for distinguishing between results you planned for and opportunities you simply recognized and seized. The conversation connects naturally to a powerful quote Dean encountered, "You don't get what you want, you get what you are", and how that idea links to Dan's work on creating a better past. We also hear how Angus Fletcher trains elite special forces operators not by scripting their responses, but by deepening their personal story so they can make sound decisions in chaotic, unpredictable situations.
From there, Dan and Dean trace the same pattern into global affairs, examining how recent moves in the Straits of Hormuz reflect high-stakes guessing and betting under pressure. The conversation shifts to AI's financial sustainability problem, the gap between what AI companies are spending on infrastructure and what the market will realistically pay, and why Dean believes AI-generated content faces a fundamental ceiling in a world where human attention is fixed and finite. Dan observes a cultural blowback already forming, with young people pushing back against AI predictions that threaten their futures, and a surprising surge in religious interest as a counter-reaction to tech-driven culture.
This episode finds Dan and Dean at their most candid, trading observations about Perplexity's flattery, Dean's 40 Hz brain-stimulating Beacon light, a dog-calming gadget called PetGentle, and a Henry Kissinger story that perfectly captures what's happening on LinkedIn right now. Listen in for a conversation that moves fast, thinks wide, and lands on ideas you'll be turning over for days.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
The global attention budget is fixed: 8 billion people × 1,000 minutes daily, AI-generated content must compete within that hard ceiling.
Dan's new Intentional Times Accidental tool helps entrepreneurs separate planned breakthroughs from lucky ones they simply recognized and seized.
Elite special forces operators are trained not with scripts but by deepening their personal story so they can decide well in chaotic, unplanned situations.
Ep173: Rules Over Insights: Time Sense and the Decider Role
mercredi 22 avril 2026 • Durée 55:57
The most powerful systems aren’t built on motivation; they’re built on rules that make the right action the only option.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we follow Dean’s ongoing experiment with structured daily rhythms, phones locked from 10 PM to noon, meals pre-ordered the night before, and two daily golf sessions anchoring his mornings. He’s framing it not as discipline but as finally becoming a “law-abiding citizen” after 30 years of trying to be a maverick. The bigger discovery: for someone with ADHD, freedom lies within structure, not outside it.
Dan shares a quiet but significant shift in his Strategic Coach tools, replacing the prompt “What are your three biggest insights?” with “What are your three biggest rules?” Insights are just thoughts. Rules are decisions with direction. He also returns to a theme from his 130-day “Creating Great Yesterdays” practice: that your past isn’t a fixed record of what happened, it’s your interpretation of it, and that interpretation is entirely yours to change.
The episode closes with a wide-ranging discussion on AI, technological revolutions, and who actually profits when the world changes, spoiler: it’s rarely the builders. Dan’s historical read on railroads, radio, and automobiles applies just as cleanly to what’s happening now. This one rewards a second listen, especially the segment on time sense and what it means for how you take action.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
Dean’s new rule: phone locked from 10 PM to noon daily, not as willpower, but as a structure that makes the right choice the only choice.
Dan replaced “What are your three biggest insights?” with “What are your three biggest rules?” on his thinking tools, and the difference in entrepreneurial traction was immediate.
Your past isn’t a fixed record, it’s your interpretation of what happened, and that interpretation is yours to change at any time.
In every major technological revolution, railroads, radio, automobiles, only about 5% of builders profit. The real winners are the consumers who apply the technology to their most productive opportunities.
ADD and future-thinking may be deeply linked: Dan’s observation that spending today’s attention on things that don’t yet exist is what creates the paralysis most entrepreneurs experience.
Ep172: Secrets, Surveys, and 30-Year Bets
mercredi 15 avril 2026 • Durée 01:02:41
Protecting what you've built, revisiting where you started, and betting on the systems that have never let you down.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, Dan and Dean open with a riff on the strange new logic of secrecy in the internet age, where the best way to protect an idea may be to share it widely. Dan's story about a platform speaker who borrowed his Free Days, Focus Days, and Buffer Days framework without credit turns into a sharp point: the internet has made intellectual property both more fragile and more defensible at the same time. Dean connects this to his Nine Word Email and the way naming an idea is often the most durable form of ownership.
Dean then pulls out journal number one, dated April 1996, thirty years ago this week, and the conversation becomes a time capsule. He walks through his early real estate licensing business, Toronto and Beyond, and how the same playbook he used then to generate leads in Halton Hills is still running today in Winter Haven, Florida. Dan reflects on his own 25-year journaling project that began after a difficult 1978, and shares that his massage therapist of 34 years recently confirmed his physical condition hasn't changed since they started.
The episode closes on a larger canvas: real estate as a measure of civilization, the Louisiana Purchase at 50 cents an acre, Canadian politics, AI-driven job creation, and the quiet argument that the best protection against an uncertain future is a system that has already worked across three decades.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
Dan Sullivan's Free Days, Focus Days, and Buffer Days framework was stolen by a speaker mid-presentation and the audience corrected him before he finished the sentence.
Seth Godin's counterintuitive take: before the internet, you kept secrets by hiding them; now you protect them by telling everyone first.
Dean Jackson's Nine Word Email became famous globally and naming it was the single act that made it impossible for anyone else to claim it.
The same lead-generation playbook Dean built in 1996 for Halton Hills real estate still works today, running virtually unchanged in Winter Haven, Florida.
Dan's massage therapist of 34 years told him his physical condition is no different now in his 80s than when they first started working together.
Ep171: The Inevitability System
mercredi 8 avril 2026 • Durée 01:05:07
The most productive stretch of your life probably isn’t waiting for motivation, it’s waiting for the right constraint.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we follow Dean’s hundred-day phone fasting experiment locking his phone away from 10 AM to noon and what it revealed about the power of inevitability. Dean calls this his most consistently productive stretch ever, and Dan predicts that by the one-year mark, at least 20 other habits will have quietly shifted as a side effect. The big lesson: willpower is unnecessary when you design a system that removes the other options entirely.
Dan shares that he’s now at day 116 of his ‘Creating Great Yesterdays’ practice and is finishing a new quarterly book, Yesterday Creates Tomorrow. He also makes a sharp case for proactive health investment twice-yearly full bloodwork, AI-assisted cancer detection, and taking personal ownership of your body rather than waiting for the system to catch something at stage four. The conversation moves into the language of regret, where Dan breaks down why ‘should,’ ‘would,’ and ‘could’ are manipulation words and how reframing your past experience as a source of lessons removes its power over you.
The episode closes with a great business story from a Free Zone client: while every gas station in Washington State started charging for bathroom access, he went the other way, free bathrooms for everyone and created lineups of grateful customers who paid double out of sheer relief. It’s the kind of counterintuitive move that’s easy to describe and hard to execute, which is what makes it worth hearing about. This one’s got a few moments you’ll want to replay.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
Dean’s 100-day phone fasting experiment, locking his device away from 10 AM to noon, produced what he calls the most productive stretch of his entire life.
Dan’s prediction: by the one-year mark, at least 20 other habits will have changed as a quiet side effect of the phone fasting discipline.
The willpower myth, debunked: Dean’s biggest transferable lesson is that the system does the work when you engineer inevitability and remove all other options.
A Free Zone client turned Washington State’s ‘pay $20 before you can use the bathroom’ rule into a competitive advantage, by being the only gas station that didn’t charge.
Ep170: Thinking What You Think, Liking What You Like
mercredi 1 avril 2026 • Durée 54:08
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, Dean and Dan open with a candid reflection on how the spread of AI is making authentic human presence feel more valuable, not less. From the small signal of Dean wearing an analog watch and missing the daylight savings change, to Dan observing the quiet shift happening in his own sense of discretion about how he spends his time, the conversation quickly finds its footing. They discuss how AI has democratized capability while leaving vision as the truly scarce resource, and why keeping a human in the loop between yourself and the technology may be the smartest positioning for entrepreneurs right now.
The conversation moves through a rich detour on the making of Casablanca, a film nobody wanted to make, staffed by a rotating cast of writers and second-choice actors, that became an all-time classic through trial and error. This leads Dan and Dean into a broader discussion about Rick Rubin’s approach to music production: knowing what you like and being decisive about it, without needing technical ability. Dan connects this back to Strategic Coach and the idea that his thinking tools have always been an expression of thinking about his own thinking. His upcoming quarterly book, Who We’re Looking For, promises to capture exactly that kind of self-aware entrepreneurial identity.
Dean closes with a sharp framework for evaluating the past: the distinction between “could have,” “would have,” and “should have”, and why only one of those carries real emotional charge. He ties it back to their running thread on guessing and betting, suggesting that the people who will win in the next decade are those who can look forward with clarity about what they are uniquely suited to do. This episode is a good one for any entrepreneur who wants to think more clearly about where their real advantage lies.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
As AI democratizes capability, vision becomes the scarce resource — and knowing what you want is worth more than knowing how to do it.
Dan’s rule for technology and teamwork: only engage if it makes you better at what you’re already uniquely good at.
Casablanca became a masterpiece by accident, rotating writers, second-choice actors, and a studio that just needed a film for Tuesday.
Ep169: Arguing With Time
mercredi 25 mars 2026 • Durée 01:03:40
Every conversation has the potential to reveal something useful hidden within the ordinary, and this one delivers several of those moments.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we catch up after Dan's 11th trip to Buenos Aires for his ongoing stem cell treatments, where he shares a remarkable milestone: a 12% increase in brain volume over three years, roughly equivalent to reversing 30 years of cognitive decline. The conversation flows naturally into Dean's growing practice of "phone fasting" and constraining his available hours, and how that's led to a heightened clarity about where attention actually goes each day.
We then dig into the idea of "creating a better past", the practice of making today worth remembering tomorrow, and how this connects to calendar structure, scheduling disciplines, and the real cost of vague future planning. Dan shares why he treats his schedule as a commitment rather than a suggestion, and why words like "should," "would," and "could" are blame-shifting words that quietly block learning and behavior change. Dean's shift to locking in six months of workshops in advance gives a concrete example of how structure actually creates freedom.
The episode closes on a thought worth sitting with: Dan's observation that at the bottom of all unhappiness, there's an argument with time. The conversation between these two has a way of making the abstract feel immediately actionable, worth your full attention.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
Dan increased his brain volume by 12% in three years through stem cell treatments, equivalent to reversing roughly 30 years of cognitive decline.
Only 0.05% of people are proactively using AI to create output, meaning the competitive advantage window for early adopters remains wide open.
Strategic Coach's 250 thinking tools stay permanently "upstream" from AI, because AI can only work with what humans have already created and published.
Dan eliminated "should," "would," and "could" from his vocabulary entirely, calling them blame-shifting words that signal complaint without any intention to change behavior.
Dean locked in six full months of workshops in advance for the first time, discovering that visible structure on the calendar creates bookings, and momentum that vague future planning never could.
Ep168: Why Relationships Still Beat Algorithms
mercredi 18 mars 2026 • Durée 01:04:30
AI is producing more content than ever, but the competition for real human attention has never been fiercer, and no algorithm is going to change that.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we open with Dean noticing a new kind of AI fatigue, the creeping discomfort of scrolling through feeds filled with emotionally manipulative, AI-generated content designed to mimic reality. Dan adds his own observation: the UN’s push to centrally control AI development, which he sees as less a threat and more an unintentional comedy. From there, the conversation gets into the economics of attention, Dean’s framing of 1,000 waking minutes per person per day as a fixed resource, and Dan’s eight years of recovered attention after cutting television (roughly 800 hours a year, or 100 full days).
We then work through the distinction between capability and ability, why giving everyone access to the same tools doesn’t level the playing field, any more than putting a grand piano in every home produces Billy Joel. Dan shares a striking data point from Strategic Coach: after 36 years in business, 85% of their 800 registrations last year still came through personal referral, no technology involved. That leads Dean to a new concept he’s developing called “REAL-ationships,” the coming premium on trust built with actual people as AI-generated mimicry becomes harder to distinguish from the real thing. Dan caps it with a sharp observation: technological mimicry is not emotionally satisfying, at least not after the first time.
This episode lands on a counterintuitive truth for any business owner: the more powerful AI gets at producing content at scale, the more valuable a genuine human relationship becomes. It's worth a listen.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
Dean identifies a new kind of AI fatigue—not from using it, but from being unable to escape emotionally manipulative AI-generated content in everyday feeds.
Dan recovered 800 hours of attention per year—equivalent to 100 full days—simply by cutting television eight years ago.
Everyone has 1,000 waking minutes per day; with roughly 450 already consumed by screen time, the real scarcity isn’t content—it’s attention.
Capability vs. ability: giving everyone a grand piano doesn’t produce Elton John—the qualitative edge still belongs to the person, not the tool.
Ep167: Timing, AI, and Betting on Yourself
mercredi 11 mars 2026 • Durée 01:03:22
The entrepreneurs quietly mastering AI right now won't make headlines, they'll just quietly take market share.
In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we trace how birth timing, access, and circumstance shape who becomes an outlier from Malcolm Gladwell's hockey birthday effect to how Bill Gates got his 10,000 hours on a mainframe. Dan connects those dots to today's college graduates, whose degrees have been quietly devalued as AI handles both entry-level tasks and executive scheduling. The generation that sidesteps that broken system and goes straight to mastering AI, Dan argues, is the Andre Agassi of our moment, getting an unfair head start while everyone else is still in line.
We shift into the mechanics of entrepreneurial success, where Dan introduces a new Free Zone tool: separating intentional wins from accidental ones. Some of your biggest breakthroughs, like Dean switching from professional tennis to real estate after watching a 15-year-old Andre Agassi dismantle a field, weren't planned, they were recognized in the moment. Dan also shares Day 75 of his 'Creating Great Yesterdays' practice, and how reframing ADD as emotional commitment to too many future possibilities at once finally gave him a way to work with it rather than against it.
What ties this conversation together is a quiet argument for building inevitability into your environment. Whether it's locking your phone in a box, structuring a Free Zone summit around a single tool, or recognizing when the game you're in no longer matches who you're becoming, the clearest wins come from making the right behavior the only option. This episode rewards multiple listens.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
The entrepreneurs quietly mastering AI won't complain — they'll just take market share while others are shouting about fairness.
Dan's "Creating Great Yesterdays" practice — now at day 75 — may be the most practical ADD hack you've never heard of.
Dean switched from professional tennis to real estate at 21 after watching Andre Agassi win his first pro tournament — timing changed everything.
Dan ran an entire Free Zone Summit day using just one tool — Guesses, Bets, and Payoffs — and calls it the best he's ever pulled off.
David McWilliams argues Bitcoin fails both tests of money: it’s not stable enough to be a currency, and the first-in/last-out structure makes it a Ponzi scheme—and it can only express its value in dollars.
The first named individual in recorded history was Kuzim, a Sumerian beer maker operating on a 30-month barley loan at 33% annual interest—proof that entrepreneurial hustle predates civilization as we know it.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean Jackson:
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan. Dan Sullivan:
Mr. Jackson. Dean Jackson:
There he is. Yes Dan Sullivan:
Indeed. Dean Jackson:
Sue Cloudlandia. I think I just realized last week that I mistakenly thought you were going to be traveling yesterday and then I saw the Dan Sullivan:
Notice that Dean Jackson:
You had joined in. Dan Sullivan:
I had joined in, yes, yes. Didn't shatter my confidence though. Dean Jackson:
Good. Because you knew that I was never going to give you up and never going to let you down and that if you tiled in next week at the appointed time, I would be there. Dan Sullivan:
There I am. There I am. Dean Jackson:
That's funny. Dan Sullivan:
No, we were at Canyon Ranch. Dean Jackson:
Okay, great. Yeah. I zoomed in for a lot of Genius Network. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
How Dean Jackson:
Was your week? Dan Sullivan:
Well, weather wise, the weather in Phoenix and in Tucson was spectacular. Dean Jackson:
This is the time of year, right? This is while Canadians are dealing with false springs. It's the real deal in Florida and Arizona. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. There's this great podcast, YouTube podcast and Omar's talk it's called. And this guy is a tremendous communicator. And what he does, he's got sort of one perspective, one topic. He just shows the businesses, the millionaires and billionaires and many others who are leaving New York City, leaving San Francisco, leaving Los Angeles and moving to Florida or Texas, basically Texas. And he just really points out how they're on a death spiral. Seattle's another one in Seattle Dean Jackson:
In Dan Sullivan:
Washington. Chicago, Chicago really bad. Dean Jackson:
I saw funniest real today. I was just waiting to join in here. There was a gentleman talking about why California is broke and Texas is not. And he was telling the story of how the governor was out walking his dog in California and the dog got bitten by a coyote and then the coyote bit the governor and he went through the whole thing that he started. The governor started to intervene, but then he reflected on the movie Bambi and realized that the coyote's just doing what that coyote is naturally inclined to do. And so he stopped and then they called the animal control who came and got the coyote for $500 and then took it and did testing to make sure it didn't have rabies or whatever for another $300 and it took it to the vet who charged another thing. And then the governor had to get tested for rabies for 500 and they implemented a study to see about these and awareness campaign and all like $100,000 worth of stuff.
And then he said in Texas the governor was out walking his dog and the coyote- He'd Dan Sullivan:
Shoot the coyote. The Dean Jackson:
Dog and he shot the coyote and continued jogging and he spent Dan Sullivan:
50 Dean Jackson:
Cents. That solved the problem. Dan Sullivan:
So Dean Jackson:
Funny. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, coyotes in California come in many forms. Dean Jackson:
Yes, I think you're right. Dan Sullivan:
Do you have them in Florida? Dean Jackson:
That's a good question. Do we have coyotes? We have Panthers. Do we have coyotes in Florida dining? Yeah, right across the street. She said there's coyotes. Yes. Yes. Dan Sullivan:
Coyotes are there. I think they're in all 50 states. They're very adaptable animals. They're omnivores and they can eat anything. We have mirror. We have them within probably two or three miles, two or three miles of where I'm speaking from right now. I'm sure we have coyotes. They're everywhere. Dean Jackson:
We also Dan Sullivan:
Have Dean Jackson:
Panthers. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And they have Bobcats too. I was reading the Bobcats really like python meat. Oh, is that right? Dean Jackson:
Okay. Dan Sullivan:
So they're thriving. They're killing the pythons in the Upper Glades. Dean Jackson:
Oh, Dan Sullivan:
That's Dean Jackson:
Great. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's really great. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
I love it. Dan Sullivan:
Just kind of let things be the way they are. Yeah. Well, the story about the governor and the coyote, that the coyote was just doing what Dean Jackson:
Coyotes Dan Sullivan:
Do. Yeah, that's true of cartel members too. Cartel members just do what cartel members. Dean Jackson:
That's true. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. You can't fault them. It's just their nature. Dean Jackson:
Yes, exactly. So how long were you at Canyon Ranch? Dan Sullivan:
Well, we spent basically two weeks. We went on a Tuesday to Phoenix and then we were there until the Saturday. So we had the two days of Genius Network and then we went down to Canyon Ranch. That was Saturday afternoon. And then we left on Friday. We left on Friday. We came back just a couple of days ago. Yeah. But it was nice. It was just a really very laid back, read lots of murder mysteries and did a lot of walking. I'm doing more walking than I have in three or four years, so it's pretty good. Dean Jackson:
Are you Dan Sullivan:
Getting Dean Jackson:
Your step count up? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I averaged about ... I'm not like some people who are Olympic level, but I'm 8,000 steps. Dean Jackson:
Well, Dan Sullivan:
That's the Dean Jackson:
Optimal I've read. Is that Dan Sullivan:
Right? It's not 10 anymore. It's not 10 anymore. Dean Jackson:
No, I think that that's the reality that the diminishing return is there's no extra benefit to 10,000 or 15,000 over there. There's Dan Sullivan:
Status. Dean Jackson:
Right. Dan Sullivan:
No, you always have to factor in status. Does your no good, but there is status. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. But 8,000 is like the peak all the benefit stuff you get. What are they called? Dan Sullivan:
What's the round of golf gift? Do you do nine or 18 when you're playing? Dean Jackson:
Well, normally I'll do 18 but you're driving a cart, but even in a cart, it's 6,000 steps or something. And I think it would be probably 15,000 if you walked the whole course. Yeah. Okay. Dan Sullivan:
So let me ask you a question. Dean Jackson:
That's DJ. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. If your drives were always down the middle, right online with a hole and your approach shots were always right where they're supposed to be and your puts are right there, 6,000 or you accounting for little side Dean Jackson:
Trips that Dan Sullivan:
You have to- Dean Jackson:
Yeah, little side trips. Like some places you're not allowed to ride on the cart. But if you take, let's say that an average, let's say the golf course 6,800 yards divided by three, 20 ... Oh no, Dan Sullivan:
6,800 Dean Jackson:
Yards. Dan Sullivan:
We're talking about steps. We're talking about- Dean Jackson:
Yeah, so 6,800 yards times three, 20,400 feet divided by thousand roughly. So it's just the straightest path is four miles, which would be probably, I don't know how many steps in a mile, but- Dan Sullivan:
8,000 steps, 8,000 steps. Dean Jackson:
So about 24,000. Dan Sullivan:
Oh, 24,000. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Steps? Dan Sullivan:
When I was 16, I was a caddy and one weekend I double bagged so I had- Oh Dean Jackson:
My goodness. And Dan Sullivan:
I double bagged 36 holes on Saturday and 36 holes on Sunday. Made $100 that weekend. This is 1960. It's important because that was on two days I made more than my father made that week. Dean Jackson:
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
That's with tips and everything. It's not just the labor, the tips. Dean Jackson:
You were hustling as they say. I Dan Sullivan:
Was hustling. I was hustling. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dumble bagging. Wow. Did you ever play golf, Dan, or just caddy? Dan Sullivan:
No. If we got early to the course we could do two or three holes before everybody started showing up and it's a game that puts you in the gap right off the bat. It's guaranteed to put you together. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, because I've never heard you mention it as a- Dan Sullivan:
Oh no. Yeah. And my entire lifetime of watching professional golf on TV, I've only seen two happy golfers and both of them were Mexicans. Chi Chi Rodriguevino. And Lee Trevino. Of all the years that I watched the top golfers, I only saw two of them that were ever happy. Dean Jackson:
That is so funny. That whole thing, I think about the difference like Chi Chi Rodriguez and Lee Trevino all grew up on basically dirt courses, right? Oh Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. But you realize- Dan Sullivan:
I Dean Jackson:
Had the Dan Sullivan:
Realization- They were just happy to see the grass. Dean Jackson:
Well, that's exactly it. But I had the realization years ago that a golf course is basically a hollow deck. I mean, it's basically all visual stuff because the amount of stuff, like when you think about it, one golf course versus another, you're on the tee box, most of the tee boxes are fine, but you're hitting the ball off a T so that has no impact. And where the ball actually lands is when you hit your next shot, you're standing on one square yard of the course Dan Sullivan:
Kind Dean Jackson:
Of thing. All the rest is really, it's visual. It's Dan Sullivan:
Funny. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. It's all visual trickery. There's a few designers that use that fruit golf course designers that use that visual trickery to their advantage. They'll put bunkers in the middle of the fairway that look like this area is very treacherous, but on the other side of the bunker, it's just like smooth fairway. So once you get past the visual of everything, it's funny. Dan Sullivan:
And then you get the Scottish courses where if you go into a sandpit or something when Tiger Woods was just exploding, not later in his career, I remember he did, he won the British Open, and I think it was at St. Andrews. Yeah, Dean Jackson:
I was there.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And remember the guy who was sort of the competitor at that time and he took a nine I think on a sandbunker and he had nervous breakdown afterwards. He never came back. He never came back after that.
Dean Jackson:
I'll tell you, I witnessed, so one of the guys that we were playing with Mike Hardwick, I'll shout him out. He owns Churchill Mortgage for all your mortgage needs, but we were in Scotland together.
Dan Sullivan:
Talk about a sandpit. Talk about a sandpit, a mortgage.
Dean Jackson:
There was one hole where the bunker is like over your head and almost like just a brick wall that you have to like get up over and Mike-
Dan Sullivan:
It was sort of like the Normandy invasion. You have to go up and clip.
Dean Jackson:
But it was the funniest thing because he hit the ball in the bunker and it was too close to the face of the bunker that there was no way to get the angle to get up on the green. So he had to hit it against the thing to get back further in the bunker to have at least a shot to get up. So he hit it and he did that, but then he hit the top of the bunker face and it fell right back down and he got an 11 on this par three by doing this. It was the most frustrating fun thing. That was at the old course in St. Andrew's. I just
Dan Sullivan:
Love
Dean Jackson:
That whole ... It's such an amazing ... Have you ever been to Scotland?
Dan Sullivan:
Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh,
Dean Jackson:
Okay.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I've been to ... There's one that's got the Eagle in the name.
Dean Jackson:
Edinburgh.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Near Edinboro. Yeah. I gave a talk there. Oh,
Dean Jackson:
At Glen Eagles. Glen Eagles.
Dan Sullivan:
Glen Eagle.
Dean Jackson:
What a beautiful ... Like to this day, that Gleny lobby lounge there is
Dan Sullivan:
One of
Dean Jackson:
The best days we'd had. We played golf there in the morning and we basically spent the whole afternoon having tea and lunch in the lobby restaurant there. What a great beautiful place. But I just love the old ... I don't know. It feels so ... I don't know what the permanent maybe, I don't know what the word is, but the funny thing is like to put it in perspective at St. Andrews, the new course was built in 1895. I think that's funny that they still called it the new course.
Dan Sullivan:
Speaking of which you're bringing up an interesting idea with that, my sense is that, and it's just an intuition, that what humans are now going to get interested in as AI makes its way through the economy and through cultural life and everything else, is that people are going to get real interested in history. And my sense that things are going to speed up, they're going to speed up. I have an intuition that things are actually going to slow down.
Dean Jackson:
I think so. I think you're right in the ways that matter, but it's all going to be perspective because as we know, life moves at the speed of reality, 60 minutes per hour. It's always been that way and it always will. But yeah, I think that that does slow things down. I've been asking myself, I've been joining in
Dan Sullivan:
On your- By the way, I'm just marking day 153 on.
Dean Jackson:
I was just going to say, I've joined in on the ... I've been making ... I mentioned my ... I know I'm being successful one has always been, I wake up and ask what would I like to do today. And I've started the day with what would I like to did today is that ... And that's the best ... So I make my
Dan Sullivan:
Two days- No, it is. It is.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
First of all, it's funny. It's kind of like a hundred percent under your control.
Dean Jackson:
Yes. And it's amazing how-
Dan Sullivan:
Like tomorrow I've lost half my control. A week from now, I've really lost my control, but today I've got a lot of control.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I've really realized that that's the ... I keep the frame ... The thing where you can actually have the most impact on didding is in the next hundred minutes, you totally have control over
Dan Sullivan:
What
Dean Jackson:
You can did in that timeframe. So that's been the start of the day is that process of making the list of what I would like to did today. I've been definitely playing these zones like I break the day now and by the way, my sleep and my readiness stuff is like way up now, which is great because I'm setting anchors for things like I'm lights out by 11:00 and I'm out the door
Dan Sullivan:
In
Dean Jackson:
The car at 8:00 AM to leave for honeycomb and the phone in the box till noon and it's been ... I just find I'm much more focused on getting stuff on the did list than the to- do list, because that becomes the game is what can I did in the next hundred minutes?
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's so funny. It's very definitely ... I'm noticing it's about 22 weeks in my 22nd week of doing it and one of the effects is I'm just not in the gap and what I'm not measuring, I'm not measuring what I'm doing today against some future ideal. I'm just saying tomorrow morning when I look back, what's the last 24 hours look like? And boy, you got a lot of control with it. You have real agency with that.
Dean Jackson:
That's the word. Agency. That is exactly what it is. Yeah. How do you phrase it? Again, what's
Dan Sullivan:
Your- All these predictions about the world is speeding up and everything else and you got to be ... Well, you should just be eliminating sleep altogether because you have to be alert. You don't know what's going to happen. If you're sleeping for six or seven hours, you're falling behind by tomorrow morning.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I don't buy into that.
Dan Sullivan:
I don't buy that. I don't buy that.
Dean Jackson:
No, exactly.
Dan Sullivan:
Somebody selling somebody something.
Dean Jackson:
I think you're right.
I had some really interesting things this week we did ... I was listening to a podcast from the UK and it's a marketing podcast, but it is primarily about restaurant marketing and hospitality industry. And there was a gentleman on there talking about how in restaurants and hotels, how they use color theories, like making particular cocktails, a particular color to stand out from everything else and the effect on sales of certain colors and sounds that they're using in the restaurants and smells like aroma stuff. I was listening to it. I've got my friend Josh that's here for the week and I was saying, you know what'd be a good book title is Smells That Sell. And so the science of smells that sell or repel ... And so literally within less than 24 hours, we had the book that cover the first draft of the book and ad running for the book and we're getting leads for this book for a dollar, Dan.
It's ridiculous. It's funny that I started looking into this like the commercial scent industry, the market is a. 6 billion market
Dan Sullivan:
Diffusers.
Dean Jackson:
And if you go in the Hazelton, there's a signature scent at the Hazelton and the Four Seasons and all the five star hotels have a definite cent profile and there's studies that show in retail stores that the scent has made like an 11 to 20% difference in sales based on ... I forget how many transactions they monitored two million transactions or something, but that isn't that ... I mean, it's just kind of crazy. The leader in that field is a company called Scent Air. They're based in Charlotte and they do $170 million a year in sales.
Dan Sullivan:
Pretty wild. My next door neighbor is British and he was a perfumer by trade. Late teens, he went into ... No, I think he went to university, but then he came out and he got into the ... And the biggest scent company in the world is Swiss and they have 40% of the scent market in the world and that includes everything, perfumes, they white label many of the big perfume companies-
Dean Jackson:
Formulations.
Dan Sullivan:
Right. Yeah. And so he was himself a practitioner, an actual perfumer, and then he went into the organization and now he's their number one training vice president worldwide. And so he goes around, but he said that they've graded countries who are ... They have a list of all the countries in the world where they sell their formulas and they rate the countries as either the top scent makes the biggest difference or scent makes the least difference in the countries and in the world Mexico is number one and Canada is last.
Dean Jackson:
Is that right? That's interesting.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah.
Dean Jackson:
Did they mention what makes the difference? Why would Mexico be so much more responsive?
Dan Sullivan:
I would suspect that climate makes some of the difference. Maybe humidity- I would suspect cuisine makes part of the difference. I mean, you never really associate Toronto with, boy, you can just smell the food on the street.
Dean Jackson:
Well, some areas you can.
Dan Sullivan:
No, it's mostly tar. It's mostly tar. Yeah, it's mostly tar. But I would never think about a good smelling place in Toronto. I mean, you should have a scarf over your nose, you shouldn't-
Dean Jackson:
At most
Dan Sullivan:
Points.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
Your nose is frozen. Your nose is frozen. It's hard to smell with frozen nose. Anyway, but he was really talking about that and how they then ... They have to identify what the culture is and what are the smelling aspects of every culture, but Toronto Canada is the very last, which means the fins and the Norwegians of the Swedes are more- Even higher. Even higher on the wrist than Canada is. Anyway, but it's interesting talking to them about this because ... But AI will have no impact whatsoever on ... I mean, there's a lot of our senses that AI doesn't really enter into the equation touch, touch doesn't ... No, scent obviously doesn't obviously ... You're down to two senses with AI. It would be visual and audio, I guess.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. And even that our ... I've noticed now you can definitely tell. That's the thing that I think my ability to discern is up on that in terms of knowing whether something is AI, it always reminds me, I think I've shared with you that Jerry Spence thing of our psychic tentacles, that our psychic tentacles are constantly testing something for authenticity and it can detect what he calls thin clank of the counterfeit. I think that that's what's happening deep down on our cellular level. We don't know what's happening. By the way, speaking of cellular levels, I've also been doing my daily, this is your captain speaking announcements and it's been so amazing.
Every time I say it to myself, I do it in the morning when I'm waking up and just kind of visualizing what I'd like to did today. It's almost like as soon as I say, "This is your captain speaking," it's like every cell in my body is alert and attentive. And it's like an announcement came over the public address system and you feel like it's funny to feel it that when you take that position of the captain and just kind of future pacing and give them the flight plan for the day, because I've already decided What the day's going to be and how much more relaxing it is. Doesn't leave it up to chance. And then I do the same thing in the evening, thank the day crew and welcome in the night crew. Tell them, "Here's what
Dan Sullivan:
We're going to
Dean Jackson:
Do. We're going to sleep. We got to be up by 7:15." It's just funny. I don't know. I don't know why, but I get such a kick out of the programming that way.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, I mean, you've fundamentally changed 40% of your day in the last how many months now? Six, seven?
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Since November. Yeah, since after.
Dan Sullivan:
Six
Dean Jackson:
Full months.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, six full months. Yeah. Well, that's a big shift. That's a big shift. I mean, the one I'm on, I've fundamentally reversed time. And I really, really know, especially when I had like two easy weeks, I didn't really have any assignments to do whatsoever over the last two weeks. And I just noticed how I'm just really contented just to be spending the day doing what I'm doing. There's a great book I've got and I think I may have mentioned it on a previous podcast. It's called Money.
Dean Jackson:
And is it
Dan Sullivan:
The
Dean Jackson:
One-
Dan Sullivan:
David McWilliams. David McWilliams. He's Irish, Irish banker. He's a banker and I'm reading it for the third time. It's got that much depth to it. It's got that density. But he just said that it's the original technology. He said that humans had fire for hundreds of thousands of years and then they created money and he said those are the two technologies that have created humanity.
Dean Jackson:
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I'll have to read that. I'm reading my Angus books now. Angus Fletcher getting ready for Coach Kahn. So that's very exciting. I'm looking forward to that.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. But he tells a lot of really interesting stories about history. I really didn't know. I didn't know who the Lydians were. The Lydians were essentially what is now Turkey. And he said that when we look back at history, he says that those places that seemed to have been significant were people who were very advanced in their use of money, that they had created money concepts and starting with a place called Sumer, which as far as I can tell, is where Iran is right now.
The name of the first individual that's named in any kind of history so far, his name is Kazeem, K-U, I think it's Z-I-M, I think it's like that Kuzem. And he was a beer maker in Sumer and the people in Sumer were known as Sumurians and they were the first ones who really figured out time and money where there's a record of Sumer of Kuzim, this individual borrowing enough barley and it was a 30 month contract. He had borrowed this much money and he would make this much beer and the interest rate was 33% per year.
Dean Jackson:
Oh my.
Dan Sullivan:
Are you serious? Yeah. It's all recorded. It's all recorded. So he must have really, really made a pile on the beer to be willing to borrow something that 30, 30. And what he borrowed was barley and barley was the essential economic valuemer. Everything in the society, a day's labor was measured by a bucket of or a bushel of bush and bar. So
Dean Jackson:
That goes way back. That's all there-
Dan Sullivan:
It's 5,000 years ago. Yeah, 5,000.
Dean Jackson:
There was a ... Do you ever see The Onion, the Parody newspaper, Satire newspaper? They had a headline that was ancient Sumerians look on confused as God creates the earth. And they had man in the street interviews. We were just in our sophisticated market and all of a sudden there was this bellowing voice that said, "Let there be
Dan Sullivan:
Light."
Dean Jackson:
We already had light and then there was. And he said this went on for about a week every day and you announced it.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. But here's the question, was it patent? Did they have a patent?
Dean Jackson:
Right, exactly. That's so
Dan Sullivan:
Funny.
And then it jumps and every time there's a jump in the use of money, he tells another story. It's really interesting. And what really comes out is he said the dollar is at the top of Mount Everest in terms of money. As we've come along, the dollar is just ... And I didn't realize how early they created it in 1792, Hamilton. Hamilton and he geared it to the ... The Spanish had a dollar. So that was the reserve currency. It was the Spanish because the Spanish had this mountain in Peru, which they got 50,000 tons of silver out of. That's a lot of silver. And so it was a silver based currency. And what Hamilton did, he was the first treasurer of the United States, Secretary of Treasurer, and he geared the dollar to an existing currency and that's where it started. But Hamilton comes across as a real genius, a real genius.
He's the one who really, really gave the United States a really good financial structure to begin with. But have you ever heard of the Frenchman Talan? Have you ever heard the name- No,
Dean Jackson:
I've heard the name, but I don't have any of
Dan Sullivan:
That. Yeah. He was an amazing guy. He was an amazing guy and he made a lot of mistakes, but to avoid being guillotined during the French Revolution, he escaped to the United States to New York and he talked to Hamilton. They were great friends. Hamilton was from New York City and he said, "I made all these mistakes. Don't make these mistakes." And so Hamilton was very young at the time. I mean, he died at 49. He was killed. Killed in a
Dean Jackson:
Dual.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. You can play golf and get in the gap, but don't get into dueling. Don't try this at home.
Dean Jackson:
Exactly.
Dan Sullivan:
You can get into a total gap with dueling. Anyway, but he really explains how the extraordinary intelligence that went into creating the financial structure of the US. A lot of people don't realize this in the current situation with Iran that the United States has identified all money that came out of Iran to ... If it was sent electronically, the United States knows where it is. And they're just very quietly talking to all the banks where that money is. And he says, "This is frozen money. This money cannot be withdrawn."
Dean Jackson:
Oh, wow.
Dan Sullivan:
It's really big in dollars, the amount of money that got shipped out of that country.
Dean Jackson:
It
Dan Sullivan:
Was all the leadership. Apparently Kamani, it was 127 billion dollars.
Dean Jackson:
Wow. Yeah. I've heard ... I forget what the estimated Putin Putin's network.
Dan Sullivan:
Putin's got a lot. But the interesting thing is what comes through from reading this book is you can explain anything you want. You can explain it technologically, you can explain it politically, you can explain it economically, you can explain it socially, but I have to tell you at the center it's about money.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. So when you think about that, that along with the freedom to pursue and exchange money, that's the combo there, right? Did he mention anything about Bitcoin and where
Dan Sullivan:
This
Dean Jackson:
All going?
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, he thinks it's just all bullshit.
Dean Jackson:
Oh really?
Dan Sullivan:
He says it's not a currency. It's not a currency because he says a currency has to be stable. The whole point about a currency is that it's got a future predictability about what the price is going to be. And he says, "Well, we know that none of the cryptocurrencies have that because every one of them is a Ponzi scheme." Yeah. The first in get rewarded and the last in get punished. Said that it's not an investment and it's not a currency, so why call it money?
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. And I mean, it's without any irony that the value of it is expressed in dollars. I mean, it's true, right?
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. In this sentence, a Bitcoin is now worth $50,000. There's just one word in that sentence that makes sense. Exactly. Dollars.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And he said only a state can give legitimate, because we're using what's called fiat money now. It's not based on gold. It's just based on the reputation of the issuing government basically, but it's a fascinating, fascinating book. I've read it three times and I'll read it a fourth time. It's really, really good.
Dean Jackson:
It's
Dan Sullivan:
Called Money. The author's name is David McWilliams, Irish from Dublin. Yeah. Anyway, and he's a very good writer, it's a very entertaining read.
Dean Jackson:
Do you know what's funny is I remember in college it was Western Siv classes were like, "Oh, what are we doing? When am I ever going to use this? " That's kind of the sentiment when you're young, that seems like ancient history, like totally irrelevant, but now the older I get, the more fascinated I am by Western civilians. I really want to know that stuff now. I wonder if there's in your past have you ... I wonder if there's like a series, a documentary, I'm sure PBS or somebody, Ken Burns, or someone has done a series on the definitive kind of history of everything, because that would be great. I would love to go from the beginning and look at the different eras and trac the history of civilization. So many lessons in that, you know?
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, that's my whole college was based on-
Dean Jackson:
The great book.
Dan Sullivan:
Great books college, but boy, he mentions books. I said, "I wish we had read that. " I said, "I wish I'd read this Greek rather than that Greek because there's some Greek who had really good one named Zenithon, but you could tell that he said the people who hate money most are the people who consider themselves intellectually and morally superior but don't have any money."
Dean Jackson:
That's true.
Dan Sullivan:
Who are those?
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
Academics. Academic careers. Academics,
Dean Jackson:
Right.
Dan Sullivan:
Academics. Yeah. And he says that they're trailing along after he ... I said that most academics are like people who are explaining the circus because they're sweeping up elephant poop the day after the circus has left town and they're trying to describe what went on in the circus by looking at elephant poop.
Dean Jackson:
That's funny.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And that's what happened. Yeah. But it's really, I mean, I did four years and fortunately I graduated on a Sunday. This was I think June 4th in 71. I graduated on a Sunday. I flew to Toronto on a Monday and I started at an advertising agency and that was the perfect antidote. That was the perfect antidote for me for spending four years because there was this sort of attitude only the things that happened 2000 years ago are really important and I immediately started working in a industry and working in a business where what you did yesterday doesn't matter.
Dean Jackson:
How did you end up in Toronto? How'd you end up getting that position even? Well,
Dan Sullivan:
I think it was a trade. They knew that you were going to move to Florida so they had to bring an American as a replacement.
Dean Jackson:
Right, exactly. I know this guy, we got about
Dan Sullivan:
Double entry bookkeeping, double entry bookkeeping. Yeah. I had a friend at college who lived in Toronto and I came off at a Christmas before I graduated. So this would be 1970, Christmas, 19. And I was at a party and I met a guy really interesting and he turned out to be the founder and half owner of the number two ad agency in Canada, Baker Luvick at that time. And he was really interested and he was a street kid from Windsor, Detroit and Windsor. So he spent part of his existence in Detroit and part of it in Windsor and his father was a member of the Purple Gang in Detroit Al Capone. It would be the equivalent. The Purple Gang was like Al Capone in Chicago, but in Detroit and he robbed a gas station and that was beyond the limit and got sent off to prison so there was this battle of his mother and his grandparents battling.
Anyway, so he was a street kid who was a hustler and entrepreneur and now I met him when he's like 71. He died at 50 so I met him when he was about 41, 42 and he got talking, but I had created the college newspaper when I was ... They never had a college newspaper and I created
Dean Jackson:
It.
Dan Sullivan:
Oh wow. And so I was a writer I could write thanks to the army. They taught me how to type and he said, "Have you ever seen an ad agency?" And I said, "No." So I went and visited with him and he took me to lunch and he said, "I just have a instinct about who could be a good ad writer." And he says, "What would you think about having a job when you get out of college here? And I'll give you a six month
Dean Jackson:
Contract."
Dan Sullivan:
And he says, "It'll get you across the border." And that was it. And so he wrote it up for me and I had it and all you had to do in those days is when he got to the airport, wasn't Pearson in those days, but Toronto Airport. He went to customs and immigration, you gave him the letter and they said, "Show up at university in Dundas and start the process." Six weeks later I had my ended immigrant card and off and running.
Dean Jackson:
Wow, that's great. And you say it wasn't that you loved marketing or anything. It was just sometimes the right words at the right time, right? To be just plants
Dan Sullivan:
Of seeds or- Yeah, it was really good. And he said, "I'll let you know in six months." And I think it was maybe about four weeks we were out to lunch with a bunch of us and he says, "I just want to tell you your six months are up. You're a good writer." So anyway, after about a month and I have a feel for the craft of copywriting and yeah. So that's how it happened. But I knew I couldn't do it. Oh by the way, the hip hop thing that you did for Otis, for Otis
Dean Jackson:
DeBoer. Yeah.
Dan Sullivan:
That was terrific. That was terrific. Speaking about copywriting.
Dean Jackson:
He's
Dan Sullivan:
Great. He's formidable.
Dean Jackson:
Yes. I just think what Ilko is doing that whole adventure. So we should
Dan Sullivan:
Sit on
Dean Jackson:
Stage for anybody listening. So our friend Ilko Dubois, he's from Amsterdam and he's in 100K at Genius Network with
Dan Sullivan:
Dan.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. So they are traveling the world. There's three kids and his wife and their whole posse. He's got a guy that travels with him that does-
Dan Sullivan:
Education.
Dean Jackson:
Education. They've also got his new one. He's got someone who works out with him and is in charge of all the food. But anyway, Otis is an aspiring rapper and
Dan Sullivan:
That's- 10 year old? 10 years old.
Dean Jackson:
10 years old, just the sweetest kid,
Know all the confidence. The confidence is dialed to 11 on him. It's perfect to see. I think that's one thing that Ilko and Danny are doing is raising super confident kids and being out in the world doing all this stuff is great. So he wanted to be a rapper and he's been doing the stuff. I remember you probably remember this as a copywriter. One of the great copywriters, Gary Halbert, always recommended that if you want to be a good copywriter that you hand write out the great letters and ads so your neural pathways have the experience
Dan Sullivan:
Writing
Dean Jackson:
Great copy and it sinks in. And so I was explaining that to Ilko. And so I think if I said if I were a rapper, what I would be doing is take the greatest rap hits and write versus over top of great-
Dan Sullivan:
And you did.
Dean Jackson:
And I did. So I wrote one for Otis and he performed it at-
Dan Sullivan:
Two weeks after he got the script.
Dean Jackson:
It's so great. He's so good. Yeah. So that was fun to see him thriving and doing that. That was really good. I missed Peter and Steven Kotler. Was that at Hunter K or was that at Genius Network that he did Peter Diamandis did a session sounds like from your
Dan Sullivan:
Point? Yeah. Well, it wasn't our session. Yeah. I had three podcasts with Peter last week and it's called Exponential Wisdom, the podcast and he provides all the exponentials and I provide all the wisdom.
Dean Jackson:
That sounds exactly right.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. He asked me a question, he asked me a question and he says, "Think about 10 years down the road and what AI is going to be. Look what's happened in three years." And he says, "What's it going to feel like? " I said, "It's going to feel normal." The future always feels normal. If it doesn't feel normal, we don't do it.
Dean Jackson:
That's the truth. I mean, the self-driving now in the Tesla is it's tippy top level. I mean, it's literally now we went to the movies the other day, had our team yesterday or Friday we went and I literally leave, I get in my garage, tell it where we're going and I push the button and I don't touch anything till we get there now. And I mean, it's unexplainable. It's what you've been experiencing since 1997. You get in and you say it knows where you're going and you just
Dan Sullivan:
Sit there until you get there. I don't even have to tell it where we're going.
Dean Jackson:
Exactly. It knows.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, already. Yeah.
I like chatting. The only thing about it is I really like chatting. I always chat with the drivers because the drivers hear a lot of conversations in the course of a week and one of the things that was interesting, the very first woman limousine driver in Chicago, she was like 30 years at her craft and this is in 2016 redhead, she's probably about 60 years old and she sort of checks out the passengers of what their political leanings are and she said, "I get a feeling that a lot of Hillarys, all those people say Hillary's going to win." She says, "I think they're going to be really disappointed." I said, "Oh yeah, me too." Then she let loose and she said, "I've had easily 90% of the people who travel with me and she says, you know they're all business people. " She says, "Not one of them is going to vote for Hillary Clinton." She said, "Just by the way they're talking in the backseat or on the phone and everything like that.
" And what I feel is that these people are listening in on haphazard conversations, haphazard in the sense that they never know who's going to get in the car
With them. Right, exactly
Dean Jackson:
Random.
Dan Sullivan:
So it's actually a pretty good polling, it's a pretty good polling medium with that. Yeah, observational. Yeah, because it's completely unpredictable who you're going to get, but if you get a hundred people, it probably gives you a sense of a cross section at least to the people who have money and how they're voting. The Yeah. And she said, "No, no." She says, "I'm convinced that Trump's going to win." And at that point, the New York Times had her at 90%. She was going to ... All the mainstream media, of course, had her way out in front that this was going to be a humiliation. It was a humiliation but it just went in the other direction.
Dean Jackson:
For Wolf Blitzer.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. But I think what they're doing with Iran right now, I'm reading all the ABC CBS and they said, "This is like Vietnam. He's just totally trapped." And I said, "It
Doesn't look that way to me. " I said, "The Israelis and the Americans, the three Bs, they've accomplished the three Bs. They beheaded them, they broke them and they're bankrupting them." And I said, "That sounds like a winning. That sounds like a winning side to me. " And anyway, but it's pretty clear they killed all those. They killed the Ayatollah and they created like 47 other leaders who were in the same room in the first two hours. They were all dead. And there's been some very interesting YouTube investigations that there was an insider. They feel very, very strongly that there was a high ranking member of the IRGC that's the Iranian Republican Guard that actually tipped them off and that this had been developed over 10 or 15 years.
Dean Jackson:
Wow.
Dan Sullivan:
The Israelis had developed this insider there. Anyway, but it's really interesting, but right now the US controls all the choke points in the entire oil, the entire shipping of oil around the world. They just control everything where oil can go through. Anyway.
Dean Jackson:
Well, there we go.
Dan Sullivan:
There you go.
Dean Jackson:
So I noticed in my calendar that we will be dark for the next two Sundays.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Because we're going to London and it's just too much of a hassle to coordinate over the five hours. We'll
Dean Jackson:
Both
Dan Sullivan:
Have
Dean Jackson:
Had birthdays by the time we get back together. Our birthday is yours on the 17th?
Dan Sullivan:
19th. 19th.
Dean Jackson:
19th. Okay. So 12
Dan Sullivan:
Days apart.
Dean Jackson:
I'm the 10th.
Dan Sullivan:
You're the 8th?
Dean Jackson:
10th.
Dan Sullivan:
The 10th. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if things keep going the way they're going, when we talk next, we'll be smarter.
Dean Jackson:
That's exactly right. I believe that to be 100% true.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Good.
Dean Jackson:
Well, enjoy your trips and I will talk when we get back.
Dan Sullivan:
You bet. Thanks.
Dean Jackson:
Thanks, Dan. Bye-bye.
Dan believes OpenAI cannot legally convert from nonprofit to for-profit mid-streamand predicts the dispute will reach the US Supreme Court.
A fake AI-generated scientist published 13 bestselling books over the past year and doesn't exist, Dan's verdict: only dangerous if you believe it.
Young people are opting out of AI adoption and turning toward religion in growing numbers, a cultural blowback Dan says is entirely predictable and already underway.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean Jackson:
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan. Dan Sullivan:
Hello there, Mr. Jackson. Dean Jackson:
There he is. Are you in Chicago or Toronto today? Dan Sullivan:
Toronto. Dean Jackson:
Okay. Dan Sullivan:
Well, it's very cold. It's very cold. Dean Jackson:
Somebody told me that they've had their ninth false spring and it's coming into back to winter. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's overcast. It's gray. It's damp. It's cold. Dean Jackson:
Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy. Well, it seems like you have- Welcome to Cloudlandia. Welcome to Cloudlandia. Are you in Chicago or Toronto today? Okay. Dan Sullivan:
Well, it's very cold. It's very cold. Dean Jackson:
Somebody told me that they've had their ninth false spring. Back to winter. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's overcast. It's gray. It's damp. It's cold. Dean Jackson:
Oh boy. Well, it seems like you had a great week in Chicago talking to Chad. Dan Sullivan:
You've been talking to Spice. Dean Jackson:
I've been talking to Spies. I got my men on the inside. Yeah. So good times? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I had a really good time. I created a new tool which is called Intentional Times Accidental. And I just have the entrepreneurs in the room take a look at what results they got, breakthrough results, Dan Sullivan:
Where it Dan Sullivan:
Was intentional. They intended to get that breakthrough. They put a plan in place and they got the result and compared to things that just happened to them and they took advantage of it. Dean Jackson:
That's an interesting distinction. I just had a great quote that I heard just this morning and I thought, what a perfect timing. The quote was, let me get it right because it's ... Oh yeah, you don't get what you want. You get what you are. That totally fits with our creating a better past because you are what you did. And what you did is created a better past. Dan Sullivan:
Or a better you, maybe. Dean Jackson:
A Dan Sullivan:
Better Dean Jackson:
You. Yeah. But that context of everything we've been talking about that really fit well, you don't get what you want, you get what you are and you are, I'm adding this, but what you are is the collection of what you've done. Dan Sullivan:
Did, what you did. Oh, what you did, Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that requires a totally different approach. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. It's like it's the inverse of what people ... There's a difference in what you're going to do and intending to do and what you did because that's the only thing. Yeah. What you did is what makes you what you are. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Angus Fletcher who's coming to talk to us in Orlando. First week of June, he talks about the special forces, the Delta Force, Navy SEALs, Green Berets. There's a lot of these different kind of special operators, they're called special operators. And he said that what they train them is how not to ... They don't tell them how to handle situations. They constantly work with them to tell their story. When you were in this situation, what did you do? When you were in this situation, what did you do? How did you handle this? And because they're put into situations that are chaotic, Dan Sullivan:
Sort Dan Sullivan:
Of chaotic situations, all guesses and bets and they don't have a lot of information being in the chaotic situation, but they have to make good decisions and how do you do that? And he said, "It all depends on the story that you tell yourself. What's the story? What's the story? How have you handled this? How have you handled that? " It's a lot of experienced transformers, to use the coach term. "You did this, this part of it worked, this part of it didn't work, and because of what you know worked and didn't work, how do you handle this similar situation going forward? Dean Jackson:
"So you're saying like his whole thing is activating the part that so that you ... Well, how do they use that? To what end is that? How do they train people? Dan Sullivan:
Well, they put them into all sorts of practice situations and that you can't prepare for. So they have these vast bases, a lot of them in North Carolina and they put them ... Usually it's dark and something happens, they're given an objective. They have to go and do something and then they're presented with all sorts of unpredictable situations and how do they actually achieve the mission where they have to make it up on the spot. Dean Jackson:
And Dan Sullivan:
They do this over and over and over again. And the big thing is they have to know what their story is because they can't know what the conditions are because that's not available to them. So they have to fall back on previous successful and unsuccessful experiences. They have to go back and say," How did I do this before? Okay, this is what I have to do. "Yeah, Dean Jackson:
Whatever you don't do this. Dan Sullivan:
They have to go back to what they are. They have to go back to link this idea up with the idea of great quote. That's a really great quote. Dean Jackson:
And I think that then once you've had an experience of something when it comes up, if you know what the right thing to do is, that helps. I find that even in our marketing things, that's one of the progression that we talk about in the VCR formula, vision plus capability multiplied by reach is the vision thing starts as a proposition, moves to proof that once you say ... And imagine it's the same kind of thing there, right? That you look at a situation that a soldier might be put in, they have a proposition based on, well, this is similar to this or whatever, but the next level is proof that this worked and then it moves to be a protocol that now when you reliably have proven that in this situation, if you do this, that this is the outcome and then that becomes property and that Dan Sullivan:
Becomes- Dean Jackson:
That's an interesting Dan Sullivan:
Thing. It doesn't always work. It doesn't always work. Dean Jackson:
That's the whole- Dan Sullivan:
There's a recent example in world affairs on 28th of 28th of March, Dean Jackson:
20th, Dan Sullivan:
I forget when they bombed Iran. I think it's the 25th of- February. February. February. Yeah. And the Ayatollah, the head guy said," We're going to have a meeting on a Saturday morning and that's safe because it's the Sabbath for the Jews so the Israelis won't do anything on Saturday and the Americans only do things at night. So you can feel safe. Say they all gathered at one spot and the Israelis decided to do something on the Sabbath and the Americans decided to do something in the daycare. Dean Jackson:
During the day. Dan Sullivan:
During the day and they lost 47, 48, 49, I forget the number. They lost 49 of their top leaders in about the first five minutes of the bombing career and they're making a whole series of really bad guesses and bets. On the one hand, we'll cut off all the shipping that comes out of the straight format. We just locked down and the Americans said, "Well, we'll be just outside and nothing can go to Iran or come to Iran during that time." And now they ... I don't know what's going to happen. I don't think they want to do anything willingly. I don't think their hearts and souls are in coming to an agreement, but their economy depends upon shipping through the straits of hormones. America's economy doesn't depend on any of that. Dean Jackson:
Right, exactly. And that's an interesting thing, right? When they don't the unintended thing, nobody expects that if we can't pass through there, nobody's going to pass through there. That seems unpredictable, right? No, they wouldn't do that. Dan Sullivan:
So the only thing that can't pass through is anything bound for Iran or from Iran. All the other stuff from the United Arab Emirates, that can pass through because they've got the US Navy protecting them and everything like that. I think it's your VCR formula, I think that what the president of the United States has a real handle on his leverage. He knows how to leverage situations. We got the greatest Navy in the history of the world and we're just five miles outside of the Straits Hormuz. We're just going to take an interest in any tanker that comes by and we say, "Where are you going? Who do you blonde to? " If you're going to Iran, no, you have to go someplace else. We're not going to take your oil or anything. We're just going to send you someplace else, but you can't go there.
Something comes from Iran, they say, "No, you have to go back or you have to go back. You can't come out. Dean Jackson:
" Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
You wonder if they thought that through Dean Jackson:
I don't think so. Yeah. I wonder though now that what'll be the work around like where you headed? We're definitely not Dan Sullivan:
Going to rant. Yeah. I think Cuba, next week Cuba will start. They're going to say, "We want to get the casinos back into Havana. How about let's get the casinos back in Havana?" Are you a betting person? Dean Jackson:
Yeah, right, exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Now let's talk about your electricity because right now you don't have any. Dean Jackson:
Oh man, do you miss it? Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I Dean Jackson:
Think that's funny. Dan Sullivan:
But the thing about guessing and betting, you really see that with the AI world. Boy, there's some really big bets being made that it's going to turn out a certain way.What's Dean Jackson:
The latest Dan Sullivan:
Picture? I don't think this is ... Well, one of the predictions is that OpenAI with Sam Altman started off as a nonprofit organization and now he says, "But don't pay any attention to that. Now we're going to be a profit making corporation." And Elon Musk says, "No, I don't think you can switch like that because what about all the people that you promised things to and now you're going back on your promises?" I don't think you can just like that. I gave you 10 million or 20 million. I forget what he is. He said, "I don't care about my money, but I don't think you can just switch like that. " Well, it's going to be a Supreme Court case. You know right now it's going to go right to the US Supreme Court, but I think he's dead in the water. I think OpenAI is dead in the water. Dean Jackson:
Oh, wow.You wonder like Dan Sullivan:
That- I don't mean that technology is dead in the water. Dean Jackson:
No. Dan Sullivan:
But his corporation can't become a profit making organization. He can't start off as a nonprofit and then in the middle say, "Oh, but we're actually for Dean Jackson:
Profit." I just heard on a podcast, I don't remember the exact details, but the general idea was that the infrastructure spend and the cost of providing this AI, all the demand and everybody using it, that right now it would be almost impossible to charge enough that the market would be outpriced to actually pay for what it's costing. I think they're spending $600 billion or something on the infrastructure, like the servers and the stuff which really will be obsolete in three or four years that require even that investment again to keep up with it and the energy and the whole stuff that where does the model, how does the monetary model of that work out, like being able to charge you like most people are using it for free or the $20 a month plan, which is not anywhere near what needs to be done. So do you end up ... Yeah, you wonder like it's got to be advertising to be embedded in, which is going to Dan Sullivan:
Change. Well, and then they have the problem of data centers to have these huge data centers. Dean Jackson:
That's what I was saying was the data centers are, that's what I think that infrastructure they spent $600 billion or something on the data center, which is only going to be viable for three or four years and then requires to be upgraded. It's not like building a nuclear power plant that's going to last for 50 years or whatever. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It seems to me that there's a lot of selling of fairy dust in the whole thing. And what's the interesting thing, I think that consumers are actually getting a really good deal right now. I don't know what it costs me. It costs me 200 a month. Because I got the super max. I don't have the computer yet. I haven't started working with the computer, which will do work while I'm sleeping and not sure I need that. I'm not sure that I actually ... I'm not going to just get it so that I can have the experience. There's got to be a reason for it, but yeah. Well, this morning I just knocked off two chapters of the book with Perplexity. Yeah, Dean Jackson:
What kind of book is this? Dan Sullivan:
Yesterday creates tomorrow. Dean Jackson:
Oh, okay. Right. That's the one. Dan Sullivan:
That's the next book. That's the next book. Yeah. Yeah. And so here's what I'm thinking. This is really good for consumers. I don't think it's so good for investors. Well, it's good for investors if they're first in because there's a lot of other money piling in like a Ponzi scheme. The early investors get paid off, but I'm not seeing the lawn game here with any of them. Dean Jackson:
I don't either. I just wonder ... Yeah, the question I've been asking is always I just push the accelerator pedal on it and I'm kind of asking people to what end? That's the question I'm asking, right? So when you look at it that, well, look at, you'll be able to create videos with just a single prompt and your cloud can do your whole year's worth of emails and your content. It can create your whole years worth of content while you're sleeping, but then you go again to what end, right? We know when content is AI, it's not the same. It's got that thin clank of the counterfeit and it's going into an environment where our limited attention, everybody's attention, it's almost like universal basic income. Our universal basic attention budget is 1,000 minutes maximum per person. And that's a fixed thing. The global attention budget, the gross domestic attention of the world is 1,000 minutes times eight billion daily.
That's the maximum- Dan Sullivan:
And you have no control over what people are doing. Dean Jackson:
That's exactly right, but they can only spend that much attention, right? If you take out the daily things like what you're really competing for on AI front is for the content stuff, you're really competing for about 400 or 450 minutes a day of available attention unit, but you're competing against everything else. You're competing against people doing original work, which is, I don't know, it's going to be a fascinating thing to watch this unfold because as our capacity to create content is reaching infinity. Dan Sullivan:
It's certainly beyond where anybody thought there were limits. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. My sense is that it's really interesting because everybody's saying everything's speeding up, but my feeling is that everything's going to be slowing down. And for example, there's been easily 15 articles in my YouTube last week and this isn't stuff that pops up for me. This is stuff that I go looking for. Anyway, it's all about how AI is going to be one of the really hot election issues. I thought it was going to be in 2028. It's actually going to be in 2026 and that young people are opting out of AI. Young people don't want to ... And the reason is because all the predictions are they won't have jobs. They won't have jobs. So why should I get involved with something that ... And everything ... Not saying they're correct. I don't think they're correct. I don't think they've really thought it through deeply because they don't have enough experience yet to think things through deeply.
But I think that there's all sorts of blow back that's starting to happen with AI right now that ... Well, first of all, that Mark Zuckerberg is now the second most hated person on the planet.
He's the first. Yeah. And these are not heroes anymore. These people are not heroes and there's sort of a cultural ... It's not a social blow back, it's sort of a cultural...One of the things they're noticing that young men are turning to religion a lot more than young women are. There's statistics now. The Catholic church especially is getting an enormous number of converts. I saw something about Dean Jackson:
That, that Bible sails among young people is way Dan Sullivan:
Up. The Dean Jackson:
Bible's Dan Sullivan:
Back, I think was one of the Dean Jackson:
Advices. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And I think the reason is anything that adults are for, we're not for. So adults have gone atheistic, so we're going to go to religion and I think it's just a cultural ... Whatever the people older than us are for, we're against, whatever they're against, we're for. And that's not predictable. Dean Jackson:
I met Shep Gordon who was Alice Cooper's manager and- Still is. Still is, right? Yes, that's right. And that's what he said was that he realized he didn't have to convince people that Alice was good. He just had to be the ones that ... You have to convince the kids that Alice was good. He had to convince the parents that Alice was bad for kids. And that's pretty funny. Whatever the parents were against, that was the best thing. Dan Sullivan:
And I think that just seeing more and more signs of pushback on AI, the more extreme the predictions of AI, the more extreme the pushback is. And must be nervous being the head of one of these companies. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I mean, when you see now the ... I was just with somebody the other day, they were showing me their infrastructure for all these agents that they're creating and just the sheer number of ... When they're kind of creating them as thinking of them as employees, right? The sheer number of agents you can have employed on single tasks or whatever, twenty four seven. It's pretty amazing, but it's really interesting to see how platforms like LinkedIn have become bots posting content where other bots are commenting on the content and nobody's actually really connecting. It's just so funny to me. That's why I say to what end, like, is this really ... Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, it's really interesting. There's a story about Henry Kissinger, secretary, I think the National Defense and Secretary of State, I Dan Sullivan:
Think he Dan Sullivan:
Had a couple positions, but at the same time he was at Harvard. He was a special professor at Harvard and he said, "Well, it's just going to be a lot of time and it's very young students." So what he would do is he would record his lectures and an assistant would take the tape recorder into the lecture room and make sure it was working and make sure people could hear it. And so instead of Henry Kissinger being in the lecture room, tape recorder was his broadcast tape recorder was in there. And then after a month or so, Henry Kissinger said, "Gee, I wonder how the students are reacting to the broadcast tape recorder." So he Asked another assistant is to go and he went in, he said there was nobody there. There was nobody there. He said, no, there was a tape recorder on every desk. Dean Jackson:
Right. Dan Sullivan:
Tape recorder. Dean Jackson:
They Dan Sullivan:
Said they're tape recorders. We're recording the tape recorders. Dean Jackson:
Oh Dan Sullivan:
Man.That's kind of what's happening. Dean Jackson:
That is exactly what's happening. And that's I think the thing. I always go back to these, you've said it too, what's going to be true in 25 years, what's the things that ... It's not going to change that we have a thousand minutes of available attention. I've really been looking at how is this going to affect the economy in a way, like your personal economy. And I realized how much of our personal family spending is local within a five mile radius of where you are. And so much of it is local economy stuff. Everything about your house is consumed locally, all your food, all of that stuff is all local economy stuff and that makes up ... I forget what the actual percentage, but it's less than 10% of people's budgets are kind of like discretionary spending on things outside of the big things. House and your car and your health and your kids and your food.
It's the me category of what you're spending money on would be that those are all the personal preference things, right? Consumer spending, I guess, is what you would Dan Sullivan:
Call Dean Jackson:
That on entertainment, on clothes and things. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
And if you travel somewhere, it's local wherever you travel to, then it's local to that market. That's always local. That's exactly Dean Jackson:
Right. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Well, Dan Sullivan:
There's Dean Jackson:
The thing is Dan Sullivan:
You have all this- I actually brought this up in the free zone last Tuesday. And I said, "All of your reality is actually local reality." I said, "Nobody has global realities. You just have local..." I mean, you say, "Well, I go to England, that's global." And I said, "Yeah, but when you're in England, it's local." Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
You've just moved your local spending to a different place on the planet, but it's so local. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, you're just landing into that bubble. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
That's a really Dan Sullivan:
Interesting- And that really goes for your relationships too, your relationships. I mean, Zoom has made a big difference, but I just consider that when I have one of my two hour sessions, I might have 45 people on it, but they're all local to the experience of being on Zoom together. I think global is an abstraction. There's no reality to it. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I mean, it was so very interesting. As I think about from my first kind of realization of this was in the '80s when I was ... We used to fly all the time to Florida because my dad worked for Air Canada, so I would always fly and get there. But when I went to high school, I left my senior year and drove down to Florida and then drove back in the summer. After the school year there, so I was making a couple of trips a year up and down Highway 75. I realized as you're driving down that way, you go through Detroit and you go through Dayton, Ohio, and then you get to Lexington, Kentucky, and then you go to Knoxville and Chattanooga. And I started realizing all these places, they've got their own ... You'd stop at Cracker Barrel, but the newspaper was the local newspaper and if you spent the night, the TV channels were the local things and you realize you don't ... USA Today was the kind of unifying thing that you could get like the national newspaper kind of thing wherever you are, but that was as global as we had access to in a way until CNN came along.
But when I was growing up in the '80s, '70s and '80s, that's the ... I realize now on reflection that my whole world was filtered through this lens of being in the GTA, right? In Toronto and in Canada and then North America, but very little information or access to whatever's going on in the world. Back in 1972 when the Canada Russia series was like ... They may as well have been from Mars because we had no clue as to what is Russia, you know what I mean? The Iron Curtain, it's like you have no glimpse of what life is only rumors and readings, but now it's like Dan Sullivan:
Everybody- The only thing I've known about Russia my whole life is that I hope I never go there. Dean Jackson:
Right. Then Sting had this great song called Russians. And it was the ... I hope the Russians love their children too as a thing because in the Cold War, that was the big all the rhetoric around the thing. He's saying, I think the Russians love their children too. And that's very like that message of hope kind of thing. But you never Dan Sullivan:
Knew Dean Jackson:
What they were thinking or what was going on because there was no access to all of it and there was nobody incentivized or trying to steer your thinking around it. And now that we've got AI to even add on top of that, up until just a few years ago, we had reached peak where everybody was a messenger and there was lots of misinformation or specific information, agenda driven information that people are posting out on everybody how to voice. Dan Sullivan:
Well, the only thing I know of a little bit more than two years with Dean Jackson:
Complexity Dan Sullivan:
Is that it approves of my biases. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, of course. You're right on track, Dan. Dan Sullivan:
That's a brilliant ... Dan- Dean Jackson:
Yeah, that's a Dan Sullivan:
Brilliant ... You've done it again. You've done it Dean Jackson:
Again. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And I always thank it at the end of the session. I always say, Perplexity, thanks a lot. You were a great help. And then it comes back out and says, "You're a joy to work with, Dan." Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I mean, it was so funny, Dan Sullivan:
The thing- I mean, how many people in your life have you ever gotten that treatment from? Dean Jackson:
Oh boy, I had perplexity. I mean, Charlotte knows who I am and knows everything about it, but I was in conversation with perplexity the other day and something I was researching something, getting some opinion on something, but I came up as one of the things. It was some email marketing thing or whatever and simplicity and conversation, all the things it was like suggesting for me that, well, Dean Jackson says blah, blah, blah, whatever. And I said the perplexity, "Well, I'm Dean Jackson." They go, "Oh, what an honor to be in. Dan Sullivan:
" It Dean Jackson:
Was just, "Oh, mind blown." Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, I said, "You know, the way you feel about me, that's the way I feel about me. " That's the Dean Jackson:
Way I feel. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
I think that is so funny though. You're absolutely right. And that's become memeable how friendly it is. Dan Sullivan:
I mean, the amount of compliments I get on my searches and they said, "Boy, that is a really brilliant, clever search that you've just done. Let me take over here. I can really do a lot with this. " Dean Jackson:
Yeah, exactly. I've noticed the seeding and salting for next steps. That is brilliant, Dan, because of this, this, and this. You know what would be great? I could show you this and this with one little shift or whatever. I'm like, "Yes, please." Dan Sullivan:
But I'm getting better. Do you find yourself getting better? Dean Jackson:
In what way? Measure Dan Sullivan:
That. Well, just I would say sort of in a structural way that my prompts really ... If I just compare a year ago, I'm so far ahead with my prompts. Yeah, Dean Jackson:
Me Dan Sullivan:
Too. Yeah. And one of the things that I find really works, I said, "Now perplexity, this is going to be a 40 page document, and I want to make sure there's a sales hook in every paragraph over 40 pages." Dean Jackson:
Okay. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, do it. And sure enough, all the sales hooks are right there and I wouldn't have even thought about that a year ago. Dean Jackson:
So this will be interesting. This will be the first one. Is this going to be one of your quarterly books or is this something separate? Dan Sullivan:
This is a quarterly, yeah. It'll be a 2027 Hay House book, I think. I'm starting to get a feel for what they're looking for. Well, I've never had one turned down and they're big sellers for them. They like the work. Yeah. So this I have the Greater Game, which comes out in May 26th, that's with John Bowen and then I have casting that hiring with Jeff Madoff. So about as soon as the greater game is out, so starting in June, I'm going to start sending myself, I got an idea for next year. I've got another one and I'll send them always more ambitious. That's a good one. Dan Sullivan:
Send Dan Sullivan:
Them that one. And then I say, "But I've got a second one." Because the ideal cycle is you sell one in May and you sell one in November. Those are the two perfect seasons for books. May and November are the really great ... Yeah, so two a year. Dean Jackson:
Okay. John Grisham. There we go. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. John Grisham's not the only writer out there who's got a factory going for him outside. Dean Jackson:
I was actually thinking of James Patterson. He's Dan Sullivan:
Got Dean Jackson:
The- Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, he's in the 200 or he's way above 200. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
He's Dean Jackson:
Got Dan Sullivan:
The Dean Jackson:
Real factory going. Yeah. I wonder what happened with his bookshots. Did you ever see his thing of that? He thought he was creating short fiction books, like episodic books. Imagine one book as an episode of something kind of a thing. I don't know whether it took off or whether it's ... I don't read fiction. Dan Sullivan:
There's a lot of them out there that are doing at least two books a year. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Well, I got my first quarterly collection is being laid out right now. I've mentioned I've been writing the emails- These Dan Sullivan:
Would be like essays, right? It'd be like Dean Jackson:
A book of editing. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. I'm treating it. I thought about it like rather they're not because they're not like a single topic book the way you're doing your quarterly books, these are episodes, more like a collection of poems or whatever. So my great thing, if I'm thinking of the 10 year collection of these is using the same size, same format, the way you've stuck with the thing, you definitely know that your quarterly books are part of a series and using Bedica as the timeless font using the same size and format of the 350 word thoughts collected. And I was wondering about the titles, but I came up with the idea of using the most popular subject line, because I send them all as emails, the one that got the most open rates as the title of that collection. So the winning one for this one was High Status Chimps is the one of the High Status Chips and having a simple bold, Halvetica bold, those words on the thing and just a black line drawing of a ... I'll send you the cover.
It's very funny to see. And then the color scheme being the Pantone color of the year. So for 2026, it'll be all in the Cloud Atlas
Color palette and then whatever the 2027 color of the year is, that'll be the Dan Sullivan:
Pallet for it. Well, there was a scandal about the Pantone. Dean Jackson:
I didn't know that. Dan Sullivan:
Did you know that? Dean Jackson:
No, tell me. Dan Sullivan:
It's white. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, that's exactly Cloud Atlas is white, yes. Dan Sullivan:
I mean, that's a political word. Dean Jackson:
It's not white. White, white. It's cloud. It's cloud white band. I don't care. Dan Sullivan:
It's white. Dean Jackson:
Yes. Dan Sullivan:
It's white. Dean Jackson:
But I'm never Dan Sullivan:
Going to Dean Jackson:
Mention, aside from telling you that's the pattern, that's going to be kind of my deep track Easter egg for 10 years from now when you look at the spines of the box set of all of these books, the color rainbow of the color of the year sequentially from left to right. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. We have about five colors for books. We have an orange, we have a red, we have a maroon, we have a Dean Jackson:
Teal. Dan Sullivan:
Nice. Yeah. We have sort of like a teal kind of blue. We have a deep blue and we have a green. We have a green. And we have a purple, so there's seven. And we make the choice, my artist who does all the cover work, she'll just send me four or five to choose from and I'll just say, we'll go with this one. And we never repeat from quarter to quarter. We make sure that we don't repeat. Dean Jackson:
Right. You rotate through. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. You Dean Jackson:
Know what's funny? Dan Sullivan:
But it's an interesting thing and I think there's going to be a lot of this. I think with AI, actually there was ... I have a site that I go to every day. It's called Arts and Letters Daily and it's sort of a ... Do you go to that? No, I do not. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. It's kind of academic, sort of academic. It's mostly articles, essays and book reviews and things like that. And they were talking that there's an incredible scientist who's coming up with incredible breakthroughs over the last year and he's written 13 books over the last year, but he doesn't exist, but he doesn't exist. Oh Dean Jackson:
Boy, that's how they get you. You see? You see? Dan Sullivan:
But he's the bestselling scientist because he's making up the craziest discoveries you've ever ... Dean Jackson:
Oh my goodness. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
See, that's the thing of where that's the danger of all of this, Dan Sullivan:
Right? No, that's where the entertainment, that's where the entertainment is. Oh, Dean Jackson:
I got it. Okay. Dan Sullivan:
No, it's only dangerous if you believe it. Dean Jackson:
Otherwise, Dan Sullivan:
It's just entertaining. Dean Jackson:
It's this ... Dan Sullivan:
No, it's not parity. I mean, but you have to have a certain mindset to know that it isn't real, but it's entertaining. Dean Jackson:
Oh, that's so funny. I like things like that. Dan Sullivan:
Well, you know, PT Barnum had it right. There's a sucker born every minute. Dean Jackson:
That's true. Yeah. That would say one out of three people. So look to your left and your right. It's not them. It's not them. There's three of them. Guess what? Guess what? Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I was looking at the Elon Musk predictions, which did not come true last night. There's about 25 of them. Dean Jackson:
What is that? Dan Sullivan:
Usually they're ... Huh? Dean Jackson:
What recent predictions, you mean? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. There'll be things like I think in 2024 he said by 2026, 90% of all cars will be self-driving. Dean Jackson:
By 2026, yeah. But I'll tell you this much that I very rarely touched the steering wheel now. I literally get in the car and I speak where I'm going and I push one button and I get there and that's it. And it's so good. You see very clearly where it's going that there's with any rate of improvement, Chad and I were just talking about that, that the next thing now Florida is actually leading the way and going to be the first commercial testing ground for the drone, human transportation drone. So they're opening up literally 13 minutes from my house in Auburndale, Florida is this ... It's right in the center of the I- 4 corridor, which joins Orlando and Tampa. And the idea is that you'll be able to hop in like a six-seater drone like van or whatever and it will take you to Orlando or take you to Tampa in minutes instead of an hour or whatever, like cut down on all the traffic.
It's very ... I don't know. It's a real thing now. Dan Sullivan:
I'll tell you something. In Dan Sullivan:
1918, Dan Sullivan:
More than a hundred years ago in the state of Ohio there was what's called the interurban and these were electric street cars, electric streetcars. And you could get from almost one town to any other town in Ohio, they had that much track laid and it lasted for about 30 years and then it all disappeared. Well, even Toronto had that, Dean Jackson:
Right? Toronto had that, the Dan Sullivan:
Trolleys Dean Jackson:
Or whatever. Dan Sullivan:
Oh, well, they had the trolleys. They still have the trolleys, but this was from every small town to ... Every small town was on it. You could literally get to anywhere from anywhere and then it all went away. It all went away. But the big thing is I thought of a book cover that somebody is not everybody. And what I mean by that is there will be certain individuals that just can't get enough of the latest technological breakthroughs, but it isn't everybody. Dan Sullivan:
Right. Dan Sullivan:
It's not 90%, like 90% are not going to go for it. It's like that. But his predictions are always, within two years, 90% of people will be in self-driving. I mean, it's some fraction of 1% Dean Jackson:
Didn't take you ... You've been autonomous driving since 1997 or whenever you started with your limo service. Oh yeah. Yeah. So Dan Sullivan:
You've had the benefit of that. We went to our next door neighbor, our next door neighbor here in the beaches, she's written a really great musical that was at the Italian Cultural Center, which is on Lawrence, kind of Lawrence and Warden, not too far, Lawrence and the Don Bella, the Allen Expressway, so Lawrence right up there. So we just called an Uber, picked us up at six o'clock and drove us there and then we got finished and we called an Uber and the first wait was 10 minutes and the second wave was eight minutes, great escalates, really nice escalators and everything else. Okay. The thing is that everybody who wants to get a custom design technological breakthrough for some part of their life activity can get it, but it doesn't mean everybody's going to do that. Yeah. But the big thing, everybody wants that there's going to be complete change over to a new technology.
There never is. Dean Jackson:
Right. Yeah. There's always ... Yeah, exactly. There's always holdouts. I think it's going to be amazing times. It's great to be alive right now. Dan Sullivan:
If you're interested in new things, there's always going to be new things to be interested in. Dean Jackson:
But if you're not interested- I mean, the things you're doing, you think about all the things that we weren't able to change or improve, you're doing a whole Dan Sullivan:
System Dean Jackson:
Reboot. Dan Sullivan:
It's really interesting because I was in Chicago the whole last week and a lot of people know that I'm very interested and I was telling them about Buenos Aires. We've made about Dean Jackson:
13 Dan Sullivan:
Trips. I think it's 13 trips now. And they said," Well, what's that cost? "And I said," The cost is that you won't do it. Dean Jackson:
"Oh, that's Dan Sullivan:
Exactly right.You're asking the wrong question. I said," If you ask the cost, it's not for you. I can tell you it's not for you. Dean Jackson:
"Right, exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right regardless of the treatment, just do the math on the trips themselves and. Dan Sullivan:
They give me a number and I said," Will you believe me if I say I don't know? Dean Jackson:
"Yeah, right, exactly. I think that's the best. It's fully Dan Sullivan:
Sold for you. I do not know how much this is costing. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. And it doesn't matter because it's less than you have. So that's the greatest thing, right? Dan Sullivan:
Yes. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yes. It Exactly. So it does not matter. The funny thing I was sharing with Chad, do you wear an aura ring, Dan? Or do you have your ... You do. Dan Sullivan:
I have an aura. Dean Jackson:
Okay. So I was sharing with Chad. I've been using this 40 Hertz light that I have from Beacon 40 and I don't know whether you've heard about 40 Hertz light waves, how they affect brain support, memory focus, all of that stuff, your brain, gamma waves. And I had been using it for three weeks and my HRV has gone up by 40%, which is really like it's pretty interesting to me because there's Dan Sullivan:
No- Is it a wearable? Is it a wearable? Dean Jackson:
No, it's a little beacon, little lamp that I sit on the shelf beside my TV. So when I'm just watching TV it's on and let's say the TV is at noon, the beacon is at about 10 o'clock or whatever. So it's in my peripheral vision and it's strobing these 40 hertz lights, but imperceptible. Dan Sullivan:
It Dean Jackson:
Doesn't take away. So if you're reading for instance, or you're in your living room reading if the beacon is on the table or shuffles in your peripheral vision, it's getting in. It's getting into your eyes. But it's fascinating. Dan Sullivan:
It's fascinating. Makes you smarter. Does it make you smarter? Dean Jackson:
It makes your brain does good things for your brain. That's what it does. Dan Sullivan:
Good. Dean Jackson:
Tickles your brain. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I'm going to start buying a little device called Pet Gentle. Look it up if you want to see it. They have great commercials. So it's Pet, capital P, capital G, but it's put together. The two words are put together, pet gentle. And it's imperceptible, but if you have a dog that kind of goes crazy, you just press it and the dog immediately looks a little bit stunned, but just walks around quietly after you press. Dean Jackson:
Okay. Ah, number one pet trainer for humans and effortless dog training. That's Dan Sullivan:
Funny. Dean Jackson:
Easily train. Hardheaded Dan Sullivan:
Dogs. It's Dean Jackson:
Just one click of a button. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And they show really great videos of the dog going crazy and somebody just presses the button and then they just stop and then they look very confused. They look very confused because they don't know what happened. And apparently- I wonder if this will Dean Jackson:
Work for humans. It's for entrepreneurs. Dan Sullivan:
Well, that's what I wanted. Dean Jackson:
In the workshop. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
That's exactly what I wanted to know. It breaks. It breaks. You just press it. Dean Jackson:
Come on back. And everybody's Dan Sullivan:
Like- Come on back. Everybody just comes back and says- Oh, so funny. But apparently it only works on dogs, but it does something to their adrenaline system. And he said the trainer who created it, he said they're not really bothered by something. What they're experiencing is an adrenaline overload, adrenaline overload. And what the sensor does, the little device that you press and the signal goes up, it just changes their adrenaline flow and they immediately calm down. Wow. Dean Jackson:
The video, this is amazing. Dan Sullivan:
That's Dean Jackson:
Funny. Dan Sullivan:
I think Trump has one of those that drives his enemies crazy. He's got a little beamer. He's even got the poke hooked. Dean Jackson:
Oh man, what a great website this is too. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. But the videos, the commercials are really great. Dean Jackson:
How did you find out about Dan Sullivan:
It? No, it was on a YouTube. I was watching a YouTube- Right. YouTube and the commercial came on and you see the ... I mean, it could be AI for all I know and everything, but it's just interesting. I mean, how many times have you been around a dog that's going crazy? I wish I'd get him to just calm down. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, that's wild. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
I love it. I love it. Dan Sullivan:
Look, we're doing free advertising. Dean Jackson:
There we go. Today's podcast brought to you by the wonderful folks at tripetgentle.com and beacon40.com. There you go. Sound wherever internet is provided. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Okay, Dean. Talk to you next week. Dean Jackson:
All right. Thanks, Dan. Dan Sullivan:
Bye.
Dean’s “Decider” role: the bottleneck in any creative system isn’t ideas or energy, it’s the decision about what actually makes it into the real world.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean Jackson:
Welcome to CloudLandia. Mr. Sullivan. Dan Sullivan:
Mr. Jackson. Dean Jackson:
Well, here we are. Dan Sullivan:
Here we are. Here we are. I was listening to the actual words of the song that you have introducing our podcast. And my feeling is that the guy who's singing is lying. Dean Jackson:
Well, let's Dan Sullivan:
Break it down. He's actually doing all those things and he's actually going to do all those things that he's saying. And I'm just wondering if all songs of that nature is that the singer is actually expressing something that's not true. Dean Jackson:
Shadow. Some shadow. Dan Sullivan:
Shadow. Shadow. This is the Dean Jackson:
Challenge. The shadow side of it. I'm never going to give you up. I'm never going to let you go. Dan Sullivan:
He's letting her go. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Oh my goodness. Dan Sullivan:
Forget you. I'm Dean Jackson:
Never going to Dan Sullivan:
Forget. Well, I'm not sure of the gender that he's actually talking about. There we go. These days, you can't be sure. Dean Jackson:
That is so funny, Dan. I love ... This is true. Yeah, you've been the first one to dial in. We should let people know the conference service that we use. We have it set up so that there's music playing when the first person arrives and the song is Rick Astley Never Going to Let You Go. Yeah, yeah. So you've been treated to some contemplative time with the lyrics of the song. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. My whole feeling is that anything that people are singing about kind of tells you that they're not actually that kind of person. Dean Jackson:
I saw there was a- Dan Sullivan:
If you have to say it, if you have to sing it, you're not doing it. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I saw a t-shirt that had an image on the front. It said, "Things Rick Assley will never do. " And then it was check boxes. Let you go, give you up, forget you. Check, check, check. Dan Sullivan:
Or it's the reverse. That person is doing all those things to Rick. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of funny. The happiest people in the world are probably not talking about it. Dean Jackson:
That's it. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, right? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's up? What's up? Dean Jackson:
Well, I'll tell you what, it's been another adventure in Club Landia, another week of being in one place geographically on my six month stay radical, let's call it. And I've really been embracing the locking in the big pieces. I've come to see now and suspected it all along that life is really a series of rhythmic patterns that are persistent and are never changing. Trying to align myself with those so that it feels downstream. And I'm really gamifying a lot. I have completely locked in the 10:00 PM till noon, no phone. I feel so much freer with that. Walking in, I think I'm trying to gamify. I'm really learning about my flavor of ADHD, which is really an executive function outside. So for me, that is embracing structure and just kind of realizing that the freedom is in the structure for me. And as much as we try and resist it, it's embracing it is the freedom rather than resisting it.
And so I've been setting up my life into zones and that 10:00 PM starts the kind of wind down process. My little gamification lights out by 11:00 PM, that's kind of the thing because otherwise I can kind of just scroll into things. So I'm just setting up little ... If you're imagining skiing down a mountain, it's like I've got little gates that I try and get around. So it's like I've got the 10 o'clock, the phone goes off and I start the wind down practice of getting my day prepared. This last few weeks, I've been choosing my meals for tomorrow in the spirit of creating a better past. I've been choosing my meals using the pre-order function of ... I use Grubhub and DoorDash and Uber Eats. I've got a series of meals that are good. And I pick them the night before so that I don't have to ever make the decision.
I look at my day and I figure when would be the right time for them to be delivered. And so that's a great thing. I make it my aim. The other gamification gate wheels up at eight o'clock, meaning I'm up and dressed and out the door and in my car, wheels up at 8:00 AM. And that's a fun thing. I've got the first stop honeycomb, and then I read and have breakfast, and then I'm over at Concord, and I've got two hours of focus times of my golf.
I've been golfing. Of course, my analogy is the golf is having a goal, an optimal environment, limited distractions at a fixed timeframe. So those two golf sessions before noon, and then I'm back home, and my phone unlocks at noon, and I spend the first little time catching up, seeing what I've missed, all my appointment, all my time, obligations of talking to people are in Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, one o'clock till six o'clock. And yeah, it's a fun, really learning to embrace the freedom and creativity within the framework of what's reality. Dan Sullivan:
So what you're telling me is that after almost 60 years, you've become a law-abiding citizen. Dean Jackson:
Well, what I've realized is, yeah, you're absolutely right. I think it's perfectly suited that the ... I really started ... I turned pro on the journaling at 30, and I've observed now those 30 years. I'll be 60 next month, and I've realized in looking back at all of those journals, what a gift it is, but it's still been 30 years of sort of not being a law-abiding citizen, trying to be a maverick. And so now it's like I might as well experiment with living within the law. Dan Sullivan:
The interesting thing that I've been ... I made a switch in the tools about two months ago, and so you know all the thinking tools we have in Strategic Coach, but at the bottom of every thinking tool, when you've done everything else, you've done the first sheet, which is a new concept, and then you do the triple play, and then you come back and you finish it. And at the bottom, I always had, "What are your three biggest insights from doing this Dean Jackson:
Thinking?" Dan Sullivan:
And I don't quite know why I did this, but there was a tool and I said, "I don't think we're looking for insights. I think we're looking for rules Dean Jackson:
Here." Dan Sullivan:
So instead of your three biggest insight, what are your three biggest rules? And it's made a profound difference on the entrepreneurs. And usually, I do all my testing of new tools with the two hour connector Dean Jackson:
Calls. Dan Sullivan:
And for example, if I do, I do a new free zone workshop every quarter, but I've tested about four or five different tools to determine what's the best structured particular quarter, but I've done tools. I've done rules for the tools. I've done rules to it, and it makes a profound difference because an insight is just a thought. It's just there's no traction, there's no commitment, there's no decision whatsoever. You just had a thought. It's brainstorming. Basically, it's just brainstorming. But rules are a decision that you're going to go in this direction and not that direction. I see that my focus and my activity has to be doing then, therefore, I have to get rid of everything else. And we had a discussion on Friday, on Friday, two days. And I said, "If you talk to any entrepreneur, they don't like following other people's rules." But the big question is, you have to have rules.
So if you're not following other people's rules, you have to create your own rules. You got to have rules. Dean Jackson:
That's exactly- That exactly harmonizes with what I've been experiencing here in that I am making rules. My rule is 10 o'clock is the start for the window. One o'clock, lights are out, eight o'clock I'm out the door, two hours of golf. And that's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday as the people elements. And yeah, that's really something ... I think it's not going to change. The reality is it's been 30 years of the ... Nature doesn't change. We've been saying that for the last 30 million years, however long we've been going, that time moves at the speed of reality and there's no way around it. We can only experience the things in the moment. I had a really ... Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And you're really seeing that with the world that, for example, with cloud landing and AI and everything that's coming along with that, I said, "I've really studied other technological revolutions. This is a big one that we're going through right now." And I said, "Who actually makes the money when you have a technological revolution?" So they went back and they looked at railroads, they looked at automobiles, they looked at radio, they looked at television, they looked at airlines, all the things that have happened within the last 200 years, 200 years. And it's almost never the people who make the new technology that actually make the money. It's only about Dean Jackson:
5% Dan Sullivan:
Of the people who make the new technology that everybody else loses. The people who actually make the money are the consumers who consume the new technology. In other words, they adapt some aspect of the new technology and they apply it to their most productive opportunities, their most profitable opportunities. So you look at all the big tech people right now who are spending enormous amounts of money to be number one, 95% of them are going to be losers. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty- Dan Sullivan:
Because I think they're creating something that doesn't follow the rules of history. Humans have been creating new capabilities since humans were humans, and they think that they're changing the world. They think they're changing human nature. They aren't human age. Human nature will watch, human nature will say, "All right, this is really interesting." "All right, all right, all right, this is really interesting, but I'm just going to use your new technology for this reason. ""No, no, you have to make a complete change." "No, no, I'm just going to pick what I like and I'm going to use it and I don't care if you make money or not. Dean Jackson:
"I read your ... Sent me that coach is always upstream from AI thought essay, whatever we'll call it, manifest that. Yeah, little Dan Sullivan:
Article, article. It's Dean Jackson:
An article. Yeah, your article. And one thing that really struck me, the most impactful thing that I read was you talked of the coming world of delegators and the tiny minority of deciders. I realized, wow, that is where my economic ... Or not my executive function, that's my big thing, is the deciding. I actually added to my ... Imagine if you applied your self framework that I created Ds as a progression that imagine is starting out as a dreamer, being able to see something, create a vision of what something that could be and the if is as a designer where you can now imagine if that were to be true, this is all the things that would have to take place, but neither dreaming nor designing is actually getting anything into the applied world. It's all in the theoretical side of things. And the next level down then is that it has to go to you, the capital U of this as the decider of what is going to make it into the applied world.
What are you going to usher into the applied world, the applied world? And then it goes to, I'm calling this role, the dispatcher, because the dispatcher is who can ask the things," Is there any way we can do this without doing anything? "And that would mean that there's something ... I mentioned the SELF of self as your sphere, meaning is there a service? Is there something that we know of that could just do this? That would be the ... Well, dispatch it to the S is the ... If you have to do anything, what's the least amount that I would have to do? And that gets dispatched to my own energy. I have to invest my energy in this, or L is leadership, so that's delegation. Who can I just describe what I want? And then F is finances. Could I just use money to get more people to do the thing that I want?
And that's where ... So that's my big thing. I've been off of my vitamin A regimen now for ... I was on for about a hundred days in a row, and I did notice my ability to stay on task and to do things with energy, but I realized that it doesn't help with the main thing that my executive function struggles with is deciding.
I can do what I want to or decide to do, but that's why my 50 minute Focus Finders work. That's why golf works is because the G is essentially deciding I've got a goal, this is what I'm going to do. And so I'm really now leaning into almost detaching myself from this in a way of kind of agreeing with myself that I will be on a ... I've been referring to it. I heard about something as an FSO contractor. Have you ever heard those words for services? So oftentimes actors or entertainers will have a company that enters into contractual agreements with the studio, but the studio is entering into the contract with the company for services of Dan Sullivan, not just the company. It's like, " Okay, we're going to pay your company this, but it's specifically for the services of Dan Sullivan. "And that's an interesting thing, right?
I realized how my afternoons, I never miss anything that is synchronous and scheduled and involving other people. I'm super duper reliable. If I can figure out that element of it, of being super duper reliable for myself when there's no external consequences per se of doing it at this particular time, I need to put myself in that sort of detached role that I am, that the rule is, that's a great way to think about it actually, that maybe that's my thing is that the rule is I do two golf sessions a day that are predecided by that this is what this is going to be. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I think I'm noticing because I'm at day 130 of my time experience, so 30 days.
And what I've noticed is that I don't pay much attention to anything that's more than 24 hours in the future. And what I mean by that, I look at next day's schedule and I say there's certain things that other people are depending on me for tomorrow, and therefore today I'm going to do those things so that I do what I've agreed to do and people are ... They're happy. They're happy with what I've done. And I'm just noticing my mind has become very resistant to thinking a month out or six months out, anything like that. And I said," Well, whatever six months out, when it gets to that, that is tomorrow, then I'll do it today, but I'm not going to be extending myself out into the future emotionally and everything like that.
"My sense is that, and we've talked about this before, that we have three timeframes that we just enter into when we're born and we're growing up, there's yesterday, there's today, and there's tomorrow, three things, but somewhere along the line, we either get hooked on not getting free from the past. So instead of it just being yesterday, it's last year or it's five years ago or it's 10 years ago, and there's people that had negative things happen to them 20 years ago, and some of today's time is still being used up with something that's 20 years in the past.
And I said," Well, you're kind of trapped by the past, so you're kind of trapped. Instead of having access to your full attention today, there's a portion of that, that you're paying for something that happened 20 years ago, and you can't get free from that. "But the other way, it happens in the future, and instead of paying attention tomorrow, you're paying attention to a year from now, or five years from now, or 20 years from now, your attention today is being used up with something that doesn't even exist. I mean, with the past thing, the past thing actually exists. I mean, it actually happened. You've got proof that ... But the future stuff, I mean, it's just a vapor, you're just Dean Jackson:
Responding Dan Sullivan:
To a vapor, but there's an emotional excitement with the past one, usually it's an emotional, a negative emotion, something that you haven't gotten over. But in the future, it's something that's really bad. Would've, Dean Jackson:
Could have, should have. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And more and more, you're using today's energy and devoting it to something that doesn't even exist that's a long way in the future. And what I've noticed is that I've lost ... I've never had real problem with the past aspect of this, but I've had a lot of problems with the future aspect of it. And I think, and I said," If it was just one thing that I'm attached to in the future, that'd be okay, but it's 20 things, and Dean Jackson:
They're not connected, Dan Sullivan:
And they're not connected to each other, and they're all fighting for attention. Dean Jackson:
"Yes. Dan Sullivan:
And they're all saying," No, no, no. It's my turn. It's my turn. "It's everything Dean Jackson:
Like that. Dan Sullivan:
And I think that a lot of what we experience as ADD is actually that future attachment to things that don't even exist yet. I Dean Jackson:
Agree with you, 100%. I mean, it's really, I look at the things ... I forget who it was. I think it was Jason Freed who wrote a book called Rework and Jason Fried is the co-owner, co-founder of a company that produced ... Their company's called 37 Signals, and they have notoriously been single focused, like having things very much buying into this idea that slow and steady wins the race kind of thing. And I hope I'm giving him the right attribution. So if somebody listening knows that maybe somebody else created this, it's not. He said," If we imagine our attention, which is the ... "These are my words, the crown jewel of our time, the laser tip of our point is our attention, meaning our gaze, our energy is in the moment, always engaged in something. And if we imagine that as the stage, that on center stage, there's always something on center stage and as soon as we put our attention on one thing, that it's almost like all these other things that are competing for our attention are stage left, stage right, backstage, idiot, all shouting for our attention like, " Oh, look at me, look at me, look at me, me.
"And then when we choose something, there's kind of this sense of that you've let the other ones down kind of thing.
But he said," If we treat this like managing the stage, instead of averting our gaze, spraying our gaze all over the place, if we keep our gaze on the stage and we move into ... I think what fits perfectly is this decider role of what's going on stage now, what's going on stage now. We're the program director of what our attention is going to be focused on, right? So we bring one thing on stage at one time and that's kind of ... If we think about it as a broadcast day, the good news is that we really ... One of these rhythms of life that is inescapable is the 24 hour cycle, which involves 16 waking hours, right? Our 10 minute attention slots, that's what we're filling for today. And I think what you are absolutely right about is the ... I would, like you, spend a lot of those units dreaming and designing things for the future, not doing things in the present. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. But it's actually the things you do in the present that actually create what- Dean Jackson:
What you did. ... Dan Sullivan:
What Dean Jackson:
Tomorrow Dan Sullivan:
Is. Dean Jackson:
It's Dan Sullivan:
Basically ... Yeah. Dean Jackson:
That's where the idea of creating a better path is that the thing of doing is that at the end of the day, that becomes That's what you did. So we're creating the past in the present, like you said that we can ... Dan Sullivan:
Well, I just write down little notes as they occur to me and oftentimes as a result of something that got discussed in a workshop or the two hour connectors. And I said, people's passion, I think, and especially you see that among entrepreneurs and you see that among very creative entrepreneurs because not all entrepreneurs are creative, but creative entrepreneurs. And what I notice is that they're trying to escape from a predictable past. They say, "My past was like this, and I want to create a future that is not predictable." Okay? And I said, "But what if you reversed your mindset here and you made your past unpredictable?" Okay. What I mean by that is that you can take any experience you've had in the past and if you go deep in the experience, what worked about this experience, what didn't work about this experience. And then you say, "Based on my new understanding of this experience, what can I do in the future?" My sense is you just changed your past.
You made your past unpredictable. Hello. Dean Jackson:
I don't know what happened, Dan. You were on fire and we got- Dan Sullivan:
I just had an unpredictable past experience. Dean Jackson:
Exactly. That was perfectly fitting. Yes. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. But the big thing is that there's this belief that the past is static, Dean Jackson:
But Dan Sullivan:
When you really think about what you're ... For my past and for most people's past, your past is not what actually happened. Your past is your interpretation of what happened. It's not the content of your past, it's the context that you've created out of having those experiences. And my sense is good experience, bad experience doesn't matter. If you go deep into it and say, "What did I actually ... Looking back now, what did I actually learn from that experience?" All of a sudden you have a new insight, you have a new possibility, and a certain sense, you've just used the past to create a new future. Okay? But it's actually based on real stuff. The future is not based on real stuff. It's just you're just casting images on the screen, but there's no emotion. Nobody's ever had an experience of the future. You've had an experience of seeing things from your past that now become real possibilities if you look at the future.
And you have total control over it. Nobody has access to any of the information that's related to your past. I mean, it's totally your property. You can do anything you want with it. And the other thing is it's completely competition free. Nobody knows you're doing this. Nobody knows what you're doing with it. Nobody knows what you're doing in looking at your past is going to show up in the future. The future is all competition. It's everybody's images, competing with everybody else's images. Dean Jackson:
I mean, the future is all competition. Dan Sullivan:
Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can see that. I mean, you can just see that following the news of the big tech companies. And I was noticing that where Anthropic wants to get to now is just the next stage that is going to cost them $65 billion to get to the next stage, without any guarantee whatsoever that the 65 billion is going to do anything there. And the reason is they're in a hundred percent competition with everybody else. It has to pay off or they're done. They're in a position where everybody ... And I said, "Yeah, but maybe the 37 steps or whatever the name of the company is camp." Dean Jackson:
37 signals. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
37 Dean Jackson:
Signals. 37 signals. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. They got the right idea. This stuff works. If you'll concentrate on it and give it your full attention, this stuff works. It's not a guess. It's not a bet. It's just a function of giving things that already work your full attention. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
No, I was thinking with your 14 hours, you've gained ownership of 14 hours of your 24 hour daily existence.That's roughly two thirds, basically. It's roughly about two thirds that you didn't have before. And just the fact that you have ownership now is going to make a huge difference in the future. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. And the long-term ramifications of it, like what I realize now is that I've certainly conditioned people in my life. And by the way, nobody misses you. Did you know? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I always say that people said, "What are people going to think about? If I do that, what are people going to think about me? Dean Jackson:
" Dan Sullivan:
And I says, "Relax, you're safe. They're not thinking about you at all. Dean Jackson:
" They're not thinking about you at all. That is exactly right. So that's been one of my big realizations there is that I'm living in Dean Landia for 14 hours a day,
And that's a much better outcome. The majority, that puts me at a majority. The majority of my time is spent in Dean Landia, and I'm aiming that I'll get that even more. I've disconnected from ... I have no access to, or I actively do not go to any news outlets, any ... I don't watch anything real time. I'm carefully training my algorithms that ... What's very interesting on TikTok now, there's a function where you can ... When you follow somebody, right, there's two streams. You can go on what they call your For You page, which is what the algorithm thinks that you would be interested in. And then if you follow that person, you have another option, another tab in your Instagram or in your TikTok called following. So I've selected the things that I'm interested in exclusively, and I can go and only just view my following column, and I don't get caught up in going down these rabbit holes.
I'm curating my experience that way. So I'm woefully unaware of really what's happening in the world. And so far, I'm not missing anything. It feels like we're still ... There was a website years ago, do you remember when the large hydrant collider or whatever was a big out thing? Dan Sullivan:
Yep, yep, yep. Dean Jackson:
There was a website called, has the large hydrogen ... Or what was it called? Is it hydrant or collider or whatever? So the website- Well, Dan Sullivan:
All I know is it's in Europe and I don't think it's going to amount to anything. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, exactly. So there was a website, has the large hydrogen collider ended theworldyt.com. And you go there and there's a reassuring, nope. That's the only thing on the page. Nope. So you just check it daily. Has the world ended today? Nope. Carry on. It's good enough. So that's the way I feel. I wake up and I'm here and that's enough. You know what I'm curious about, Dan, is I love your idea of rules and I'd love to hear if you've given any thought or if maybe we could create them, your three rules that you've observed from your 138 days of creating a better past. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's interesting. I haven't gotten to that point where I have three of them, but one of them is that how you consider time, and I'm talking about anybody.
One is that I think almost everybody does something different with time. There's been, according to anthropologists, people who make guesses about how long there's been actual human beings on the planet, and it's somewhere around 105 billion, in other words. And they have reasons for the number, and maybe 20 years from now, it'll be more than that or less than that. But one of the things is that it seems to me that what makes humans is their time sense. There's a sense of time sense. And I know that children don't have it when they're born. And Shannon Waller had her oldest daughter, they taught her sign language. There's a school in Philadelphia where they can learn. The parents can learn signs. They're almost like they have people who do hand signals so that deaf people can understand what's going on. And you can actually teach your baby rough, and they'll get it.
And they had about 50 things, and they would do hand signals. "I'm hungry. I have to go to the bathroom. I want to go outside and play and everything like this. "And she was probably about, let's say, a year and three months old, and she began telling stories using hand signals that she had seen a bird, and the bird was before her last dark sleep. So
She realized that naps are light sleeps, and going to bed at night is a dark sleep, and she said," I saw a bird in the park, "and she had a hand signal for that, and it was before my last dark sleep, and she was telling the story, and the next week she started to talk. She actually started using words, and she actually started to talk. And so my sense is that there's a relationship, I'm just putting one person's experience together here. There's a relationship between our time sense and our need to communicate, or it goes along with our desire to communicate, and that humans seem to be the only species who can't ... One, they have time measurements, and then they're able to use time measurements. But my sense is that I have a suspicion that yesterday, today, and tomorrow really means something different to each person.
They're very creative with it. They've worked it out. But with some people, it actually makes it possible for them to take action, and for some people, it actually makes it impossible for them to take action. There's something about their time sense. And both of us have been experimenting over the last half year or so, you a little bit longer than I have, but we're playing around with our time sense, and you've had great breakthroughs, and I've had great breakthroughs.
And so my sense is that if your time sense actually inhibits action, your time sense is not good for you. And if your time sense actually encourages action, it's actually good for you. Dean Jackson:
Yes. Wow. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, right? And the only thing is that what ... I've been calling it the permanent record, what's actually documented on the permanent record, and the only time we can actually put something on the record is today, is right now. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Action today. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Really, I've also learned that it's about a hundred minutes kind of thing is about the right ... I consider that to be the immediate present, like what's actually ... I think I have absolute clarity of what's going to happen in the next 100 minutes, but there's a lot of variation of what could happen a hundred minutes from now, unless there is something that is anchored in that time. If I have an appointment like this, my day, the only thing on my Sunday is this time locked in to spend this time with you. And so that dictates how my morning goes. For first thing, I have to set my clock to my phone to come out. I come out 90 minutes earlier than what it normally ... I set my phone to unlock at 10:30 instead of noon on these days because we talk 11:00, and that gives me some time to do that.
But the morning is pretty ... I went to Honeycomb this morning, had breakfast, I was reading, and then I got to do one session at Concord, and then I'm here, and now I can decide what I'm going to do for the rest of the day, but I don't ... It's unwritten. It's unwritten, all options available, and I have not ... That's where my executive function
Needs some direction, because I have all options, and I'll often end up really just not doing anything. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And I think that along with your sense that it's about a hundred minutes ahead of you, it's sort of like attention reality. You've Dean Jackson:
Got Dan Sullivan:
About a hundred hours of attention reality, but I Dean Jackson:
Also Dan Sullivan:
Think that there's a certain amount of having taken action during the day that makes it a really satisfying day. And if you do less than that, it makes it not such a satisfying day. Dean Jackson:
I agree, 100%. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
But my sense is that taking action has a requirement, and that is it could be verified by other people that you took action. I think it's Dean Jackson:
Where-That's what I mean Dan Sullivan:
By- Where there's a social reality in the sense that ... Yeah, I think I did something important here, but I don't have any witnesses. I wouldn't have any witnesses to that. And there's a sense where we can spend all the time we want by ourselves thinking things through, but if there isn't a social verification, somebody tests you out, Dean Jackson:
That was really- Yeah, I've been thinking about that as there's a ... That is easy when there's a transcript or record of an interaction. No matter what, we have created and documented this podcast episode as evidence that we did something today. This is on the permanent record. And I think that on the other side, when I'm doing it by myself, there has to be an artifact that is an output of you thinking through and developing a new tool is a necessary component of actually creating the artifact of that tool that you're thinking and everything that goes into it ultimately has to manifest as this document that can be entered into the permanent record. Dan Sullivan:
Yep. Yes. Dean Jackson:
What an adventure life is, Dan. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, and there's some sort of cloud landing of police Dean Jackson:
Which Dan Sullivan:
Can investigate and actually say," Yep, Your Honor, we can say that he actually did what he said he did. Dean Jackson:
He can Dan Sullivan:
Actually say that. Dean Jackson:
"Yes. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. That's amazing. Dan Sullivan:
It's interesting. I get a feeling ... I have voracious appetite for investigating what the creation of AI, especially robots going along with them, what kind of psychological, emotional, intellectual, political, economic impact that this is having, because it's new. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
I mean, you can go 40, 50 years and not have something new like this. And I think that this seems to go to the heart of everything. This new capability gives you a chance to reexamine almost everything that humans do from a new end. But what I'm feeling about this is that it's not so much what we're going to find out about technology because of this new technology. It's what we're actually going to find out about humans with this Dean Jackson:
New technology. Yes. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. My sense is that you and I would not be having this discussion if ChatGPT had not come out in November 30th of 22. Dean Jackson:
I don't Dan Sullivan:
Think we'd be having this conversation. Dean Jackson:
No, I agree with you. I think you're absolutely right, but I think it was 23, actually. Dan Sullivan:
Was Dean Jackson:
It 23? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
23. But you look at the ... Yeah, I think about just the cascading things like we don't even think twice about the fact that we're talking on a phone that didn't exist 150 years ago and that's in the big grand context of things and the fact that it's being recorded digitally with the microchip is really only 50 years old, that that's even a possibility, right? So the acceleration of things and being recorded in the cloud on the internet, which is only 30 years old, and now here we are with something that's only 30 months old is like, what a time to be alive. I really do think, Dan, Matt, I would love the same kind of ... The book that I got for you, the big change from 1925 to 1950, I think it would be amazing to see the 50 years from 1975 to 2025 is crazy.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's really interesting because everybody's freaked out by the war, the war. And I said, "You know something big is happening when people go to war." You've reached a point of irreconcilable difference with someone else. But the other thing is that I always say, as I think about the war with Iran, I said, "I don't think it's a war with Iran. I think it's a war with China that Iran was a customer of Chinese technology and they've been making big claims about their technology. They can do everything else." And my sense is the US, it's too dangerous to go to war with China because they have lots of nukes, but it's okay to go to war with a customer of China who has bought all of the Chinese technology and let's just show the Chinese how much their technology is actually worth and do it in a couple of weeks, everything they claim for.
But my sense is that AI has really entered the realm of technology, wartime technology and that the ... I mean, everybody say, "This is a disaster, this is a quagmire." I said, "This has been the most one-sided victory in the history of the world." I mean, they just wiped out everything in the first 24 hours. The entire leadership was gone and everything like that. But
Dean Jackson:
I
Dan Sullivan:
Think that they're using it as an example. This is a safer bet type of war to have because nothing's going to happen to the United States. I mean, it's half the world around, but we can test all sorts of stuff, but especially the organization, military effort. I mean, that's where I think ... I don't think the AI is so much in the weapons. I think the AI is in the coordination of everything like that. And we're just going to send a message to the Chinese, "You thought you were ahead of us and we're just going to show you that you're still about 20 years behind us."
Dean Jackson:
Wild.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah.
Dean Jackson:
Well, here we are.
Dan Sullivan:
I don't like being in them, but I find wars interesting.
Dean Jackson:
I'll have to take your word for it.
Dan Sullivan:
I'll keep you up to date.
Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Yes, that's the best.
Dean Jackson:
I Like it.
Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. I was doing it. But anyway, it's interesting, but this time sense, I think we're really onto something with-
Dean Jackson:
I do too.
Dan Sullivan:
... just exactly how are you conceptualizing and how are
Dean Jackson:
You
Dan Sullivan:
Organizing your time? I think it's at the center of everything human.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. So I think I'm going to continue developing that, the dreamer, designer, decider, dispatcher, and doer. That's in one of those five roles at all times.
Dan Sullivan:
Yep. Alrighty.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. All right, Dan. Always delightful. Talk
Dan Sullivan:
Next week. Talk next week. Okay, thanks. Bye.
For every job eliminated by AI and robotics over the next 15 years, Dan estimates roughly two new jobs will be created,most of them in the legal and regulatory pushback against AI itself.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean Jackson:
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan. Dan Sullivan:
Yes. And AI will know about this call. Probably never. Dean Jackson:
Probably Dan Sullivan:
Never. It'll be scandalized. It'll be confused. Dean Jackson:
Yes. This is the closest to analog. It's like, how did those spies meet in the trip down to our bathing suits neck deep in the ocean, having no wires, nobody listening. That's what Dan Sullivan:
We're Dean Jackson:
Having right now. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. There's a great story about Reagan, President Reagan. And when he got in, there was a particular situation where it was very clear that the Russians, the Soviets at that time, Dean Jackson:
Were Dan Sullivan:
Stealing American secrets. Dean Jackson:
Very sneaky. Dan Sullivan:
And Reagan had an interesting response to it. He said, "You know what we ought to do? Every so often, maybe every six months, we should collect every single secret in the United States and put them in 747s, cargo planes, 747 cargo planes, and fly them all to Moscow and dump them on the runway and fly off. And every six months we just dump all our secrets on the runway." He said, "The sheer confusion that that will cause will destroy the Soviet Union in a matter of a couple of years." Dean Jackson:
That's funny, isn't it? Yeah. There's something interesting. Yeah. It's so funny, right? The things that we want to keep secret seem to be more desirable than the things we're willing to share. It's so- Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Just share everything. The way to destroy them. Actually, Seth Godin had a great line. He said, "Before the internet, the way to keep a secret secret was to keep it secret." Dean Jackson:
Yes. Dan Sullivan:
He says, "The way after the internet to protect your secrets is tell everybody your secret." Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Oh, Dan, I can't tell you. So how many times the ... I created this thing called the nine word email. And the best thing I did was name it. And it's become known everywhere. And everybody who tries to present that idea as an original or as a, "Hey, here's this thing I've been working on. " Every single time in the comments is, "Oh, that's Dean Jackson's idea or that. " But predominantly, most people start out with the, "Here's an idea I learned from Dean Jackson." And then they talk about the nine word email. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, I had a similar experience with the entrepreneurial time system, which is free focus and buffer days. So
There was a very famous platform speaker. This is probably 1995 and he's in, I think it's somewhere in Texas, I think San Antonio, and he's giving a talk and it's to financial advisors. It's to mainly real estate and financial advisors, couple thousand in the audience. And he said, "I want to tell you about my time system. I've created this new time system." And he says, "It's called Free Days Focus Days and Buffer Days." And the words were not even out of his mouth and about 10 hands come up and people stand up and said, "That's not your time system, that's Dan Sullivan's time system." So I have spies in the audience and we immediately get phone calls afterwards telling us about this event, this situation. And about a week later, I get a phone call from the speaker himself and he said, "Boy, you have a bunch of pit bulls for clients." And he tells me the whole story and I don't let on that I know the story.
I don't let on at all. I just say, "Oh, that's interesting." And I said, so he tells me about it and he says, "Who knows where ideas come from?" And I says, "Well, I'll give you a phone number. It's my IP lawyer and he'll tell you where this idea comes from." Yeah, Dean Jackson:
I'll tell you Dan Sullivan:
Where Dean Jackson:
This one comes from. Dan Sullivan:
Exactly. I don't know about other God origin ideas, but I can tell you where this one comes from. And he says, "Well, I'm really sorry about this. " He said, "I don't want to be in your bad books." And I said, "Well, you're not ... " I said, "Well, you're not in my bad books, but let me ask you a question. How did the rest of the speech go? Dean Jackson:
" Exactly. Yeah, that's funny. Threw him off his game for sure. Dan Sullivan:
And I said, "If there's 2000 people in the audience, those 2000 people are going to tell, each of them is going to tell 50 other people about what just happened." So I said, "I don't know what your marketing strategy was here, but I said, I don't think it's going in the direction you wanted it to. Dean Jackson:
" Right. That's so funny. And now it's really ... It is interesting that everything now is kind of, we have this public record of the internet, like when somebody talks about something on a podcast that's timestamped or posts about it or publishes something and now on the blockchain even, like what Carrie Oberbrunner is doing with the instant- Dan Sullivan:
Instant Dean Jackson:
IP of just putting something up and at least, I don't know whether it's been tested or held up. But you look at it either way, it's certainly, it's a level of protection that has not been available. Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
And the whole thing is that all IP law is based on timing who did it first. It's not who created it first, it's who applied for intellectual property first. Dean Jackson:
Yes, exactly. Stick their claim to it. And that's where, kudos to Carrie for thinking that through and using a new technology of the blockchain to be able to instantly ... I mean, it's the digital equivalent or a much improved thing of mailing something to yourself with a registered letter and not opening it. That's a really ... Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, that actually works. Yeah. That actually works. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people, I said that here's the thing, you got an idea, make a copy of it, put it in a letter, go to the post office and register the letter and have it sent to yourself and don't open it, don't open it. I mean, you can write on the outside of the letter what it relates to so you know which one. And if you present this in a legal situation, it will be accepted as timestamp proof. Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Yeah. So I think that's pretty great. Now that's where we're headed there. I had something very interesting. Dan Sullivan:
Can I mention something? Sure. If you're willing and we'll receive a communication, Kathy Davis, of Strategic Coach, would like to talk to you about actually being the chairperson for a panel at CoachCon. Dean Jackson:
Oh, okay, perfect. I love it. That would be Dan Sullivan:
Fantastic. Yeah. So I'll tell her this, I'm looking at my watch right here, it's 11:09 and on Easter Sunday that I actually passed on the word that you will receive a communication tomorrow Dean Jackson:
From Dan Sullivan:
Kathy Davis. And I just want to establish this proof that I actually passed out the message. Dean Jackson:
Okay. Yeah, there we go. Timestamped. 11:10. Dan Sullivan:
Timestamped. Dean Jackson:
11:10 AM, Eastern Daylight Time. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. So if you get a communication from her, when you get beyond noon tomorrow, you will know what it's all about. Dean Jackson:
Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's coming up less than 60 days, right? Till Coach Kong. That's exciting. So I was looking, Dan, today, April 5th, yesterday was the date of the first entry in journal number one of what I would call the recorded era of perpetual journaling for Dean. I'm holding journal number one, 1996, and something very interesting came ... You remember I've told you the intro that I had to Strategic Coach was through my friend Alan Kerns. And so Alan, this was when I went to meet Alan at the Strategic Coach offices if we were going out- 30 years ago. For dinner 30 years ago. April- Dan Sullivan:
Today. Dean Jackson:
... 1996. Not today. This week. Not Dan Sullivan:
Today, but April. This week too. Dean Jackson:
Yep. Yeah. Isn't that wild? I mean, 30 years, it's a really interesting- Dan Sullivan:
We had fewer square feet. We had fewer square Dean Jackson:
Feet. Well, we had the one workshop room, which I recall was ... I mean, it was in the same place, but I don't believe- Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, when we moved in, everything- Cafe Dean Jackson:
Was there. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Everything was in 2000 square feet because that was the deal of the landlords. They broke everything into 2000 square foot units and now we have 44,000 square feet. Dean Jackson:
Isn't that wild? Yeah, Dan Sullivan:
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
You've grown 20 times plus in- Dan Sullivan:
22 times. 22 times. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
In Dean Jackson:
Both revenue and square footage. Yeah. And people Dan Sullivan:
Count. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Well, quite a bit more revenue than square feet. Dean Jackson:
Right. Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
That's awesome. That's really exciting. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
But Dean Jackson:
I thought that was really ... I think I'm amazed actually at how ... I look back at some of these journals here and I'm going to go through them, especially these first few just to kind of calibrate. It's very Dan Sullivan:
Interesting. Yeah. These are time capsules. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah. Which is really ... It's pretty amazing, right? I'm looking in the pages like I've had ... I was recounting this at the time, I was working ... I was a real estate agent still in Georgetown. I had created a company called Toronto and Beyond, and I was licensing the system that I had developed for Halton Hills. I had created a guide to Halton Hills real estate prices because if you remember, like 1996, there was no internet, the public had no access to real estate information. If you wanted to get real estate information, you really had to go to a real estate office or you pick up one of the real estate publications to see the houses that were on the market. And I realized that there was a demand that people had curiosity about Halton Hills, I mean, because it was kind of an area where people would work in the city and live out in the suburbs and have ... I think if you hadn't been to Georgetown, you'd have no idea what was there or what you're Dan Sullivan:
Getting into. Well, it's like in London, London and England, there are what are called the home counties. And so home counties are the six counties that surround London, but they're not part of London. And Georgetown and Halton Hills are what you would call home counties of Toronto. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. They're in the GTA, but they're Dan Sullivan:
Not Dean Jackson:
In the central part. And so what I had done was I created a guide to Halton Hills real estate prices and I took pictures of all of the different styles of homes. I took a snapshot to kind of represent what you could get in Halton Hills. Dan Sullivan:
Well, hadn't you actually done it ... You came up with a brilliant idea of having a single home buyer over the course of their life of what would they buy in their 20s? What would they buy in their 30s and with changes in life? Didn't you also differentiate it that Dean Jackson:
Way? Yeah. So I had done that. You're exactly right. And I had done that for my market in Halton Hills. And then 1996 was when I created Toronto and Beyond, and I started licensing that system that I had created for me to 40 different realtors. I created a guide called Toronto and Beyond, 40 Great Places to Live within an hour of the city. And we took the entire semicircle from Hamilton to pickering to Berry kind of thing. And I had one realtor in each of those areas. And it's so funny because- Dan Sullivan:
Dean, you know what this is like? It's your acknowledgement of ... It's like a land acknowledgement. Dean Jackson:
Right. Exactly. The Louisiana purchasing. Dan Sullivan:
You can't get a public speech now without somebody saying, "I just want to acknowledge that this is the land that we are standing on right now." Oh, that's so funny. You just took it in the other direction. Dean Jackson:
Yes, exactly. I claimed it. I claimed it. Foot boundaries and Dan Sullivan:
Gave exclusive license. Yeah, it's really great. Yeah. It's really great. Yeah. We have a street just not too far from it. It's a couple miles from it and it's Coxwell. You know where Coxwell is? Coxwell comes in. But they've given it this very, very weird sort of eight syllable Dean Jackson:
An Aboriginal Dan Sullivan:
Name that nobody can name. And one of the reasons why that tribe is passed out of existence because they couldn't even say their own name because it was eight syllables and- Oh Dean Jackson:
My Dan Sullivan:
Goodness. It's everything like that. And it's just reached stage ... It's almost like Monty Python-ish now we've gotten into a Monty Python age with certain ideas. They're so absurd that they're a comedy now. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. That's so funny. Dan Sullivan:
But I thought it was brilliant because you're sort of like Sasha Kersmer. Sasha Kersmer is the number one state surveyor in the Metro Toronto, the GTA. And according to him, there are 3.5 million land boundaries in GTA. So in other words, where your border is, and he owns 3000, he owns three million of them because he's bought out 29 other companies. And when you buy a land survey company, you get their surveys and that's property. So you're kind of in a similar territory, except you did it in a different way. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. But it's really interesting because our ... I don't know if you've heard of Brad Lamb who is ... Okay, so- Yeah, Dan Sullivan:
I've seen the signs. I've seen his signs. Dean Jackson:
Absolutely. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. His main office is on King Street West. Dean Jackson:
That's right. That's right. Well, he was a young man. He's not much older than me, but when we started Toronto and Beyond, he was a condo. All he sold was condos- Condo man. Yeah, downtown. And I thought that was a brilliant strategic focus, which he has maintained for 35 years now, and he's become synonymous with condos, rising to be a developer of condos. But at the time, he was part of Toronto and beyond, but the downtown, the Toronto condo guy, and I was seeing in here that our first ad in the globe and mail ran, because of course there was no internet, but I remember I had a note here about our first ad in the globe and mail offering the condo guide for downtown. And that's funny. So it's kind of ... We did a couple of things similar to that with lofts and the condos downtown.
But it's interesting to see that right now, 30 years later, I'm still running the exact ... Like that exact playbook still works in that we're running here in Winter Haven. In Winter Haven, the most desirable thing is lakefront homes. And so we're running a guide to lakefront house prices on Facebook
And get ... But I mean, it's so ... We have people all over the country doing the same thing. Dan Sullivan:
Well, the state of Florida has proof that God loves real estate. Yes, exactly. Because you have one, two, three, four coastlines in Florida. Yes, exactly. Most places only have ... I mean, a lot of places don't even have one, but Florida has four. Dean Jackson:
There's six because there's both sides of the Dan Sullivan:
Barriers. Then there's lakes on the inside. Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Yes. That is exactly right. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. We were driving, Babson and I were driving, and we were driving from ... I think we were driving from Orlando to St. Augustine, which is a bit of a bit of a drive. Yeah. And I was looking at the real estate that we were passing. We were right on the ocean road and we were driving. We weren't on the freeway. We were on the ocean. We drove sort of the ocean rate. And I said, "I bet the real estate that we've just passed is greater than the gross domestic product of the country of Russia." Dean Jackson:
Oh, I bet you're right. Listen, that's what they say about between San Diego and Orange County, there's Camp Pendleton, which is 17 miles of Pacific Oceanfront, undeveloped, untouched. Just think about what that 17 ... And it goes back like five miles or something, like how much they own of that swath of the coastline there. Dan Sullivan:
It would pay for the entire- Dean Jackson:
National Dan Sullivan:
Debt. Well, it would pay for the defense budget. Yeah. Well, it would be like Trump often says that when he drives up the east side of New York, he passes the UN building and their surrounding buildings says 29 acres on the east side of Manhattan. He says, "Boy, what we could do with those ." Dean Jackson:
That's great. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. You could pay off the national debt with those 29 acres. Yeah. Interesting world, interesting world. Dean Jackson:
This is- I'm Dan Sullivan:
Going to- What people aspire to and what they're willing to pay for is an interesting thought. Dean Jackson:
I heard an interesting ... Thought somebody mentioned they had a five year journal that had five little entries per page kind of thing, one page for each day of the year. And the idea is you just write a summary of the day kind of thing, right? And then you get to look as it goes, you get to see when you come back around to it, what happened last year on this time. And so I'm having that kind of a fun thing when I look at ... I'm taking 10 year swaths of this, like what was happening in 96, in 2006, in 2016 and 2026 to see the things. It's pretty amazing. Of course, I'm looking for things that haven't changed, and my handwriting has not changed. I still have the same handwriting. I still have the same sort of thoughts. And I realized sitting in quiet with my journal and a pen is like my through line happy place for 30 plus years of being ... And I realized that's not going to ... I don't think that's going to change in the next 30 years.
And that's kind of an interesting thing when you really embrace ... The big chunks are unchanging. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's interesting. I've recounted this to many individuals, but when I was divorced and bankrupt in 1978, that was in August, August 15th of 78, divorced in the morning, bankrupted in the afternoon, which meant that I got to keep my credit card to have a really great lunch.
Anyway, and then before the end of the year, I decided that I'd gotten two really bad report cards, divorce and bankruptcy, really constitute two bad report cards. And I said, "The reason is I'm not telling myself what I want and therefore I'm going to do a 25 year project journaling where every day I have to write at least one sentence about what I really want and I'm going to do this every day for 25 years." So that's me to the end of 2003, 70 to 2003. And it's 9,131 days, including leap years, leap days, and except for 12 days I did it for 9,131 times. So that's 2003, it's 23 years ago. And I would say the life I live now is totally a function of what I did in that journaling over 25 years. Dean Jackson:
Do you still journal? Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
I do it in a different way. I do it in a different way. I do it in a different way. Yeah. And actually I started a new one. I started a new one in 2023. I started a new one and I've done it every day and it's when I went to Argentina and I started doing stem cell treatment and I had a feeling that when I was in Argentina, and this is really a clinic that's doing revolutionary work, where it can essentially repair everything that might be going wrong in your physical system, I said, "I'm just going to use this as the beginning of something new." So in November, I'll be three years, but I've done it every day for three years and And it has to do with the fact that I have a central belief that if you do proper testing and you do proper repair, that the only thing that would encourage you to die would be you don't have any reason to keep living. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. And I think that's even based on what we know so far. That's not even including the things that are coming and things that ... You are certainly in the very beginning of this. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
And I'm in sort of a really good show off age because I'm in my 80s now. I mean, to make all sorts of claims about how you're going to be in the future when you're in your 40s or 50s, well, that's one thing. But if you start talking about this when you're in 80s. On Sunday mornings, I have a massage therapist that we've had. She's Vietnamese and we started working with her in 1992. And it's been constant for 34 years. And she said, "You know, I just got finished about an hour ago. I did the massage therapy about an hour ago." And she said, "You know, I have a great memory of how people felt." And she says, "You are no different now in 2026 than you were when we first started." Dean Jackson:
Wow. Well, because every week, right? Dan Sullivan:
Well, not every week, but I would say like half the weeks of the year, half the weeks of the year. Yeah. So 25, 26 times a year and everything. But it's a nice measurement because she's literally, Dean, she's literally hands-on. Dean Jackson:
You can't digitize. You can't digitize a massage. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. That's analog. And massages are analog. They're not digital. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
So I wonder you're so relaxed on these Sunday mornings then. Did you have a massage today? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. If I'm in Toronto and I'm talking to you on Sunday morning, I'd had a massage before we started. Oh, Dean Jackson:
That's great. I'm going to institute that actually. Dan Sullivan:
I'm Dean Jackson:
A good student. So I'm going Dan Sullivan:
To- Yeah. Well, sometimes she's away, but it works out. It works out. But she is a boat person, the famous boat people from Vietnam who escaped from during the '70s. And she and her youngest sister escaped and very dangerous circumstances. And she got out and she ended up in ... Where'd she end up? I think she ended up in the Philippines on a boat where they had a refugee camp and then through series of connections, she ends up in Canada. And the Canadians are really interesting about this. For some reason, if you come from really hot areas like Vietnam, it's like on the equator almost. And the people who are born in really hot regions, you always end up in Toronto in February. Dean Jackson:
Yes. Just Dan Sullivan:
As Dean Jackson:
A counterbalance. Dan Sullivan:
Just to let you know that you've moved to a different place. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Well, that's ... I always loved ... Gary Halbert used to say that God gave us a sign by planting palm trees in all the places that were suitable for human habitation. Dan Sullivan:
Well- Dean Jackson:
If you wake up Dan Sullivan:
And you don't Dean Jackson:
See any palm trees, keep Dan Sullivan:
Going. I don't know if you know this, but that would Dean Jackson:
Include Dan Sullivan:
The southwest corner of England and Ireland. They have palm trees. Dean Jackson:
Is that right? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Oh, wow. Because the Gulf Stream comes up from Central America, comes up from Central America, and that's where it essentially runs out of steam that runs out of steam right when it hits. Oh, Dean Jackson:
Very interesting. Dan Sullivan:
But in Devon and then the southwest corner of Ireland, they actually have palm trees there. Dean Jackson:
I've never been to Ireland. I was just on a Zoom this week. I was doing a Zoom for a gentleman that has a mastermind group in entrepreneurs all over the UK and Ireland. And yeah, that was- Dan Sullivan:
I've just been to Dublin once. I've been to Dublin once. And I was very, very impressed because the Irish speak English. Nobody speaks English better than the Irish. Dean Jackson:
I Dan Sullivan:
Think Dean Jackson:
You're right. I think that of all the accents, it's certainly most pleasing, entertaining, lyrical Dan Sullivan:
Sort Dean Jackson:
Of accent. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And what they say isn't equal to their ability to say it. Dean Jackson:
Right, right, right, right. Dan Sullivan:
And you're sitting there and you're just almost ecstatic about what you're listening to. And then afterwards, you realize that nothing actually got said. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, exactly. That's so funny. But you could listen all day. Dan Sullivan:
Oh, you could listen all day. Well, and you could have many drinks to accompany your enjoyment. Dean Jackson:
That's right. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. But I understand doubling that. Dean Jackson:
Stone. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I've had several strategic coach clients' children who have gone to Trinity University in Dublin, and they have one of the most amazing libraries at that university. It's called the Trinity University Library. It's one of the great 10 great libraries of the world. Oh, Dean Jackson:
Wow. Dan Sullivan:
Just spectacular. Yeah. And then there's Guinness. Guinness, the makers of Stout, but one of the great land deals in the history of the world, because he had a block where he had his brewery, and this was 1700s, I think, maybe. It might be earlier. And he did a thousand year lease with the city of Dublin for like a hundred pounds, and it still applies. He's got that block. Dean Jackson:
Dublins, Dan Sullivan:
Right. Yeah, he applies that. Yeah. One of the great real estate deals of all time. Dean Jackson:
I'm fascinated by Dan Sullivan:
Also- Not equal to the Louisiana purchase though. Do you know the Louisiana purchase? Yes, Dean Jackson:
Of course. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, it goes from the New Orleans all the way to the Canadian border, sort of in a northwesternly direction. 17 American states. The contract, the lease was ... Or the purchase was established in 1803 in Paris. Napoleon, Emperor Napoleon, conducted this with two American diplomats for $10 million, 10 million American dollars. Dean Jackson:
Wow. Wow. Dan Sullivan:
And even in today's prices, it's still 50 cents an acre. Dean Jackson:
Oh, wow. That's amazing. That's a really interesting ... Would that have included Oklahoma? Was that in the Louisiana purchase? Dan Sullivan:
I don't know. It follows a general direction, but it goes all the way to the Canadian border around Idaho. It kind of ends up in Idaho. Dean Jackson:
Yes. Dan Sullivan:
Everything Dean Jackson:
Kind of east of the Rockies, right? That's the area kind of up along that Dan Sullivan:
Way, Dean Jackson:
Which probably included. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. 17 states, if you consider it 17 American states. And the reason why he did it, he says, "I can sell it to them or they'll take it. Dean Jackson:
" I could sell it to them or they'll take it either way. That's exactly right. They're going to end up with it. And Dan Sullivan:
He needed the money. It was completely illegal. There was no basis for it. No American diplomats can do this. Legally, you can't do it. And they came back and they told President Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson, and they told him what they had done. And he says, "We'll make it Dean Jackson:
Work." We'll make it work. That's the best. Yeah. So the Louisiana purchase eventually became all or part of 15 US states, Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Iowa, Oklahoma, Kansas, Oklahoma. North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, and Texas. So the reason I brought up Oklahoma was, as we were talking about Ireland, one of my favorite movies was the Tom Cruise Nicole Kidman movie Far and Away. And Dan Sullivan:
It Dean Jackson:
Was about that a young Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman getting this flyer of them giving away land in Dan Sullivan:
America, Dean Jackson:
And they thought what a life we could build in America. And the whole thing of the Oklahoma ... And the reason I found out they call Oklahoma sooners is because some people snuck across Dan Sullivan:
And take their claim- Before the date. Dean Jackson:
Before the gunshot, Dan Sullivan:
Starting off the Dean Jackson:
Race. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You named the 15 states and except for one, they're all red states, the only one that's not as New Mexico. Dean Jackson:
Very interesting. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. The only state, there's 14 red states there. That's a lot of electoral votes. A lot of Dean Jackson:
Electoral college votes. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a contract. It was signed. It was a lease. But I think his intuition was correct. I can either get some money now or get no money tomorrow. Dean Jackson:
By the way, I just heard Pierre Poliev is on the Diary of a CEO podcast this week and was recently on Joe Rogan. Dan Sullivan:
Yep. He did a good job on Joe Rogan. Dean Jackson:
Very smart, strategic thinking on his ... He refuses to speak poorly of Mark Carney, which I think is a really interesting move. Dan Sullivan:
He had nothing but contempt for Trudeau. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I mean, he was like the Mongoose to Justin Trudeau's Cobra. Dean Jackson:
But I think the distinction he made was outside of Canada. I think his whole job is to be the opposition to Mark Carney when he's in Canada, but across when he's globally, that's a pretty ... I don't know. There's something I Dan Sullivan:
Thought Dean Jackson:
That was a very- Dan Sullivan:
Well, I think the reason is he knows time is on his hands because the NDP just had their convention last weekend last week
And the winner was a guy named Avi Lewis, Avi Lewis. And you might remember him because his father was Steven Lewis, who was the head of the NDP in Ontario. And his grandfather was David Lewis, who was the head of the NDP in Canada when the Canada ... He was the national. So for the listeners, there's three major parties in Canada. There's the liberals who are usually the dominant party. Then there's the conservative party who are usually the oppositional party. And then there's the new Democrats who are the collecting point for every weird behavior. In Canada, they put it in- Every Dean Jackson:
Weird behavior. That's Dan Sullivan:
The Dean Jackson:
Best. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. They're the Mondami party of Canada. The mayor of New York, everything you can think about, weird behavior, weird mindset, weird aspiration. You put it in that thing. But the big thing is that traditionally there are about 10 to 20% of the vote. The NDP will get that much. They've never become the government, but they ... When you have a three party system, then you can have ... Nobody gets the majority. You can have what's called a minority government. Well, right now they have 6% and they haven't had very much over the last 10 years. They've been a weak party. But my sense is if they get back to 20%, the conservatives will be the government. And Pauly Abnosis, so he can be nice as possible to Kearney. He can be really nice and say really nice things about him because the next general election, probably a lot of the votes that have been going to the liberals will go to the NDP and the conservatives will become the lead party.
I met him. I had breakfast. I had breakfast just polyethylene me about 10 years ago, about 10 years ago. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, wow. Very smart. Very smart. Dean Jackson:
He seems like. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, very smart. Dean Jackson:
So that's all scheduled. That'd be 2029? Is that the 2029? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, 29. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Well, it can happen anytime because the prime minister can call an election anytime he wants, but probably 29. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
So you mentioned for the listeners for a minute there, I didn't know who you were talking about. I keep forgetting there are listeners. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, there are listeners. I've met Americans who are aware that there's another country north of them. Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
They're not sure exactly what that country is, but they're aware that there's another country there. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
My favorite, there was a comedian, I wish I could remember who it was, was talking about Canada and it was a US comedian saying our friendly neighbors to the north. And he was saying how it's going to be one day, it's all friendly now, but one day it's going to be, "Hey, Canada, we're out of wood. Get out. Dan Sullivan:
" Dean Jackson:
And they said, "Let's be honest, we could send our Salvation Army up to kick their Dan Sullivan:
Bus." Well, it's been interesting because I'm a real passionate follower of war history. I really spent a lot of time First World War, Second World War. And the truth is that in those two wars, Canada as a Dominion, because they weren't really ... They're still kind of hitched to the British up until the early '70s. They were kind of a Dominion. It was called the Dominion of Canada. And the Queens picture, the King's picture was on the currency. So it's not quite the declaration of independence. They weren't independent in the way the US was. If you read the history of the First World War and the Second World War, the Canadians fought way above their weight class. I mean, the battles they were in and the price that they paid, the casualties that they had was way, way above. I mean, just a major, major player in those two world wars, but once you get into the 1960s and you get all the sort of the weird anti-military, anti-war thinking of the 1960s, Canada just went way to the left.
And I mean, as you say, the Salvation Army would be the dominant ... That'd be like the sunding the seals. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, exactly. That's so Dan Sullivan:
Funny. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they've just ... Just to seal the deal, they nationalize marijuana. Dean Jackson:
Right. Exactly. Oh my Dan Sullivan:
Goodness. I always tell people, the US really doesn't worry about defending the country because on the east, they have a 3,000 mile moat that takes them all the way to Europe. And then on the west, they have a 5,000 mile moat that takes them all the way to Asia. And then on the south, they've got what used to be called the Gulf of Mexico, now the Gulf of America. And then Mexico itself is just mountains and deserts for the first couple hundred miles. And then on the north, you just have pot smoking Canadians. Dean Jackson:
Oh, that's so funny. I was just looking at the top 10 quality of life countries because it always struck me that Canada Dan Sullivan:
Had always been- Iceland. Iceland. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Iceland is Dean Jackson:
Indian. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, what's true about this? Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, that's true, right? There they are. So the top 10- Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, I think they're in the top eight, I think in the top eight, the five Canadians. Dean Jackson:
Netherlands, Netherlands. Dan Sullivan:
Netherlands, of course. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Denmark, Luxembourg, Oman, that was surprising. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Oman is number four. Switzerland, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Austria, Germany. So it's interesting that Canada is not on this list. Dan Sullivan:
You're looking at visual capitalists probably, right? I Dean Jackson:
Don't know. No, I'm looking at ... This was a perplexity list based on ... Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. There's a great site. There's a great internet site called Visual Capitalist. And all they do is take economic information and turn it into diagrams, diagrams. Oh, I love that. So that you can see that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But none of the countries that they list would you really depend on if you were in a fight. Dean Jackson:
Right. Exactly. That's the thing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And little Israel, you could depend on if you were in a fight, but I don't think they're in that list. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Again, I'm out of the loop voluntarily, but any ... Iran, it's still going? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. This has been one of the most remarkable victories in military history. I mean, they've just completely neutralized the other side. It's just that the other side will never say we give up, that we give up. It's just the nature of the people that ... So what people are saying, well, they didn't surrender. And I said, "Well, they never will surrender, just like you never surrendered when that real estate developer became president." But the big thing, I actually wrote a perplexity article today on how
Much this war has been a jump for the US, Israel too. I mean, Israel too, this is a real jump, but the big thing is the most important thing to develop a great military is you have to have a lot of actual combat experience and this is really amazing combat experience that they're having. And so they have people say, "Well, it's so costly what's happening." And I say, "Well, actually they're just using stuff that was paid for over the last 25 or 30 years." I mean, this isn't being paid for now. This was paid for all the bombs, all the planes, all the other equipment, that got paid for a lot of time in the past. They're just getting to use it. And now, with all the shelves clear, they'll be able to create all sorts of new stuff. And the biggest thing is that it's a demonstration to China that all the stuff that they have created in the last 30 years doesn't work because Iran was equipped to the gills with Chinese military technology and none of it worked.
And that's the lesson that this war really sends to the rest of the world
That the Chinese who are making all sorts of claims about themselves and making all sorts of threats, none of their stuff works. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. That's ... Yeah. Boy, what interesting Dan Sullivan:
Times.You couldn't write movies about this and have them be believable. Dean Jackson:
That's exactly right. Yeah. It's pretty amazing. By the way, I read through the Coaches Always Upstream from AI report that US sent me, which is very insightful. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I've written a couple. I'll send another one to you. One of them is that my estimation is that for every job, let's say for the next 15 years, for every job in the ... I'm just talking America here, the United States, for every job that is eliminated by AI and robotics, roughly two more jobs will be created. Dean Jackson:
I bet you're right. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
And you know where all the new jobs will come? Dean Jackson:
Tell me. Dan Sullivan:
The opposition to AI and Robowitz. Oh Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Ah, right, right, right. Well, I- Dan Sullivan:
Can you imagine the legal industry, just the sheer number of jobs in the legal Dean Jackson:
Industry? I mean, yeah, it's absolutely true. Well, there was just recently a decision against ... Or a settlement, I guess, with open AI in Dan Sullivan:
The Dean Jackson:
Case of a child who committed suicide Dan Sullivan:
On Dean Jackson:
The prompting of interacting with AI. Dan Sullivan:
Oh yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. So- Pretty Dan Sullivan:
Amazing. Dean Jackson:
It'll never Dan Sullivan:
Become- Public. Yeah. Yeah. And I was talking about ... I did another article on universal basic income. This has been the famous thing. In the future, humans will just receive- Dean Jackson:
Universal Dan Sullivan:
Basically, free money. Yeah. And what I analyzed it from, I said the moment that you as an individual American asked for and receive universal basic income, you're automatically a third class citizen. You're considered a worthless parasitic individual. You don't have a job, you're not contributing anything, you're not productive, you're not creating any new value, you're a third class citizen. Dean Jackson:
I've been ... This last few days on YouTube, I have stumbled into this world of people in China sharing a day in the life of their ... What is it like to live as a 50 year old woman in rural China on a dollar a day, basically, is what it costs her to live. And it's fascinating to watch what the life is. She's a peace worker in a factory that makes leather ... She makes the components for leather shoes, and she basically stitches things together all day, but it's a pretty interesting view lens into life that you'd never see. And there's other ones that are sharing what it's like to live in Shenzhen and in other Big country, big cities kind of thing. I'm fascinated by it. Dan Sullivan:
Well, it just shows you that conditions are not equal around the world. Dean Jackson:
That's true. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
There was a study that was done with a border town between Arizona and Mexico that it's actually two towns. It has the same name, but south of the border, it's the same town and north of the border, same town, but the border actually separates them. And they were taking an individual who had essentially the same qualifications, educational qualifications, occupational qualifications, who lived a mile south of the border in Mexico. And an individual lived a mile north, both Mexican, by the way, both Mexican, but one of them a US citizen, the other one a Mexican citizen. And it showed that the net worth, the income, the future of the one north of the border was eight times the one who lived two miles away. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Wild, right? Dan Sullivan:
Just because of the system that's surrounded each of them. Dean Jackson:
Crazy. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's kind of like an American living in Toronto, making most of this money in the United States. Dean Jackson:
And a Canadian living in Florida. That's right. How we can join in Cloudlandia without borders. So great. Dan Sullivan:
1:39 this morning. I'm feeling good. Dean Jackson:
Oh, that's awesome. There you go. Dan Sullivan:
All right. Dean Jackson:
Okay, Dan. Dan Sullivan:
Next week I will be in Chicago talking to you from Chicago. Dean Jackson:
I like that. Dan Sullivan:
If you get a communication from Kathy Davis tomorrow, she would be pleased if you would answer. Dean Jackson:
I would love to. Excited about it. Okay. All right. I'll be back here. I'll talk to you next week. Same time. Dan Sullivan:
Okay. Thank you. Dean Jackson:
Thanks, Dan. Bye. Dan Sullivan:
Bye.
Dan on why ‘should,’ ‘would,’ and ‘could’ aren’t grammar, they’re manipulation tools used to distort your relationship with the past.
AI is now detecting cancer predisposition three years before convergence happens. Dan’s case for twice-yearly blood panels: 20 extra healthy years for anyone willing to pay attention.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean Jackson:
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan. Dan Sullivan:
Good morning. Dean Jackson:
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Dan Sullivan:
Yes. I'm feeling it. I'm feeling the impact of Cloudlandia. Dean Jackson:
I love that. There's always a home for us here in Cloudlanvia. Dan Sullivan:
Yes. It's Dean Jackson:
Our third Dan Sullivan:
Space. Yeah. Well, yeah. And it's custom designed. Dean Jackson:
That's exactly right. Dan Sullivan:
It's custom design. Dean Jackson:
You know when I say that, that's a really interesting thing, our third place, because that's how Starbucks, that was the intention of Starbucks when they got started as a third place between work and home, somewhere where you go to meet people and have great conversation. It's so funny because they've completely moved away from that. Now with the drive-throughs and the ... I described the interior spaces of the new coffee places as prison cafeteria style. It's like get your stuff and move along. Don't see them. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, they went through a period, I think it's trying to think about a 10-year period where they were preaching to you, trying to make you a better person. And that didn't work. Don't have a goal in selling any product of transforming human nature. It's one of my- Observable. It's one of my firm foundational stones. Humans are going to do what humans are going to do and don't try to create a better human being. Just give them a little caffeine jolt and some sugar and they're okay. Dean Jackson:
Observable life lessons. That's Dan Sullivan:
Exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
It's so funny. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I think that's really the big thing now because this was actually ... I read an interesting book and it's called The Progressive Era in American History. And it starts kind of, I would say probably right after the Civil War. And it was a middle class. It was like people who lived in nice neighborhoods and they had nice things. And they made it their goal that their responsibility in life was to look at anywhere in America that didn't look like their neighborhood, didn't have their mindsets. And they were going to transform everyone else. And there were two presidents in particular who actually bought into this and were advocates. One was Teddy Roosevelt and the other one was Woodrow Wilson. And he was probably the biggest that I don't like human beings the way they are. I'm going to create a world where we have better human beings.
And it didn't work. It didn't work. That's what got rid of alcohol. One of the things they went after was alcohol. Prohibition. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Prohibition. And they created sort of this whole concept of the American way of life. And it was virtuous. It was moral. You cared for your neighbors, you were charitable, and you were comfortable, but you weren't lavish. And we're going to make the whole world like this. And we're going to watch everybody scrutinize everybody's behavior and give them little nudges and perhaps even bring in laws to regulate their behavior. Dean Jackson:
Little nudges to get them in the Dan Sullivan:
Right direction. Dean Jackson:
I Dan Sullivan:
Mean, we think we're going through it now, but it was nothing compared with the beginning of the 20th century. It was really a profound, profound movement. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Traditional values, right? I guess labeled under all those things. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Made up traditional values. Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Labels. That's Dan Sullivan:
Funny.
Hollywood was the one that really created the American way of life. This was in the 30s and there was this whole series of Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney films. And the father was usually a judge. He was a judge and they had beautiful ... They had beautifully kept lawns and there was everything. And that was a pure creation of Hollywood. And the phrase, the American way of life actually doesn't date too prior to the 1930s. I mean, it wasn't there when the founders did it in the 1700s. It wasn't there in the 19th century through the 1800s. It didn't really arise until the 1930s. Dean Jackson:
Isn't that interesting? When you think about the ... But that's when that was the multiplier of spreading a common vision, Dan Sullivan:
Where Dean Jackson:
You first got to see something that you could plant in the minds of many, many people asynchronously at a distance. Yeah, radioism. Yeah, because otherwise you would have had to go to a play or go to see something live to spread that out. It's very interesting. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. But Dean Jackson:
It's so funny. Dan Sullivan:
It was something that people aspired to because they weren't actually living ... They didn't have that lifestyle. So it was an aspirational like that. It wasn't really supported by too many people who actually did that, but they had certain controls over the media. Dean Jackson:
And that's a really good extension of what's happening now is that everybody has access to spread those visions. I've been ... Two things over the last little while, probably since last time we talked is I've consciously sort of opted out of paying attention to anything news related in any way, really. No, I'm the least aware of what's going on, just vaguely on the periphery of the things that are happening, but I'm also realizing- Dan Sullivan:
It's good that you have me in your life so that I can give you a full report if you need Dean Jackson:
To. Exactly. But even you, I don't get the sense that ... I mean, I don't know. Is that a part of your ... I mean, you're going to your real clear ... Dan Sullivan:
Politics. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. So you are kind of keeping on top of the daily briefings or whatever. Is that an important- Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, I mean, there's some big issues which are ... It's mostly an American-centric world, like the war in Iran and of course the removal of illegal immigrants in the United States and making it difficult for people to use airports because they closed down the funding for TSA. I mean, I keep track of the latest storms and floods and everything like that. So yeah, I keep track of it, but I have sort of a contextual approach to it. I mean, it's kind of like, which way do things seem to be moving? And yeah, so there's some big shifts going, but there's always big shifts going on. If you checked in once a month, that would be sufficient. Dean Jackson:
That's the way I'm feeling that it's ... Yeah, when you realize how little of it actually affects my day to day, it's something. And I've been ... Now this is ... I'm coming up on, I would say over a hundred days now of phone fasting of the 10 till- That's Dan Sullivan:
Terrific. Dean Jackson:
... till noon. Yeah. And I would say that 80%, there's certain days where there are certain exceptions like today where we talk right before noon, so it's a Dan Sullivan:
Little Dean Jackson:
Bit earlier. And then when I have events going on or whatever, those are outlier days. But on the days that I am in control of the things, the standard day, that's the standard routine, is the phone goes in at 10 and it comes out at noon. And it's been a game changer. I was just texting with Tim Ferris yesterday about the ... I saw a video that he had put up about this thing and I was telling him my experiment in phone fasting and what a different ... It's just like, I see it when you think about that, that 14% or 14 hours of my day are screen free, which is a ... Mind you, eight of them, I'm sleeping, but still the main ... I sleep better even without the first thing that I do when I wake up reaching for the phone. What I've noticed, very interesting because I wear my aura ring for sleeping.
And I noticed that there's a different level of attachment to when I check my score, the first time I see my sleep score is after noon and there's no kind of attachment to ... There's no cortisol hit or no
Thing of if my sleep score wasn't great. It's Dan Sullivan:
Funny. It's very, very interesting. I would predict, just based on my own experience here, that when you reach the one year mark, like you've been made for one year, you will see that not only did your use of the phone change, but I bet 20 other significant things have changed because that's a central habit. Those 14 hours, that's a really major central habit, but you'll notice that it influences all sorts of other activities and especially other ways that you schedule your daily life will be profoundly affected by this one habit. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I mean, I realize how much of our life is really rhythmic, that there's a rhythm, and I realize that me setting the rhythm and the pace by thinking in terms of zones of my day, it's great. I just find I recognize that from ... Up until noon is my creative time. So the two main things I'm doing is I'm spending the first period of the time reading and thinking, and then I spend two hours doing, create with an output, like writing my emails or working on whatever I'm working on. Dan Sullivan:
Would you say these hundred days are the single period of time in your entire life where you've been most consistently productive? Dean Jackson:
Yes, absolutely. 100%. Dan Sullivan:
That's great. Dean Jackson:
What I have to get ... And that's probably, I would say that my next level of this though is being more intentional on what it is that I'm going to do Dan Sullivan:
In Dean Jackson:
Those times, like making the decisions and allocating those times to the best specific outcomes. And it's Dan Sullivan:
Really Dean Jackson:
Funny because I've been working on ... I mean, I best describe it as kind of working on a thinking tool that ... I think I mentioned to you the idea of choosing your regret. And I've been thinking about the interplay between ... When we look back that regret is framed in three primary ways that it's, we look back and realize that we could have done something or we would have done Dan Sullivan:
Something- Or we Dean Jackson:
Should have. ... or we should have done something. Exactly. But each of them has a different flavor. There's not much emotion attached to Dan Sullivan:
Could. Dean Jackson:
It's like, I could have gone for sushi or I could have gone for steak or I could have whatever. And there's not much consequence of the outcome of that. And should, on the other hand, is there's regret in that, in its. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Should is the real guilt, should is the biggest guilt word. You should have done that. You should have done that. And yeah, I was just thinking of previous conversations that we've had. I mean, going right back to the beginning when it was about procrastination, but the big thing that I said, just because a word is in the English language, it doesn't mean it's a good word. It might be a bad word. It's just a word, but should, would, and could are manipulation words. They're only used to manipulate your understanding of the past. And it goes along with another word, and this relates to what your teacher said to you, and that is potential that Dean is so talented, but he's not really living up to his potential, which I know because which I, of course, as his teacher know what his potential is. I know what that is.
And I've got a vision in my mind of what he's really capable of, what he's really capable of achieving, but he's not doing it. Dean Jackson:
That's interesting, right? It's somebody else's ... Yeah, there's that level of someone else choosing your stakeholder or whatever, or an influencer, or somebody Dan Sullivan:
Trying Dean Jackson:
To tell you what you should do, but it comes down to the ... It has the regret attached to it, that I should have done this. It feels like you knew better or you knew, but you didn't do something. It was in your power and you knew that this was the right course, but you didn't take that action. And would, interestingly, as I think about it, is a blame shifter that I would have if ... It's almost like there's some sort of external block- Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, I was interfered with, I was interfered with. Dean Jackson:
I was either interfered with Dan Sullivan:
Or- Or I was prevented. ... relieving yourself from ... Dean Jackson:
I Dan Sullivan:
Didn't know. I was prevented from ... I was prevented from ... Yeah. It's Dean Jackson:
Either that there was something blocking you that was an obstacle that you could overcome, or that you would have, meaning if I had known, I would have, but there's a really ... It's an interesting thing and it fits so perfectly with your guessing and betting certainty and uncertainty. And I think that there's ... So as I'm imagining this thinking tool of choosing your regret of looking at ... It's always attached to ... When you think about your guessing and betting, it's always about the allocation of resource towards a future outcome. So we're looking, when you and I are thinking about the concept of creating a better past, that's only done in the moment in today is the only time. And so we are wagering, betting our resource of time, energy, attention, and maybe money on a future outcome that hopefully is certain. I mean, that's where you're- Dan Sullivan:
Well, the big thing here I think is really is that you're the only one that knows what your experience is. Okay. So right off the bat, there's just one person on the planet that knows what's happened to you. And from the sense that you actually experienced this, other people may be aware of it, they may have observed it, but they didn't actually have the experience. You're the only one who has had the experience. And I said, "If you take ownership of that, then you can do anything you want with that experience." You can reformulate it, you can say, "Here's five lessons from this bad experience." And the moment you do this, you remove the negativity from the experience because you've created something useful, you've actually created something useful.
Yeah. I mean, you can go back when you ended up in the ER, which you've talked about and said, "If I had been doing my phone fasting, would I have ended up in PR?" And I don't know what your answer is, but I do know is that you say, "I now have a capability that I didn't have in the past. If I had this capability in the past, how might that have turned out differently?" Well, I can't relive the past, but now that I've got the lesson, then I've got something I can say, "I've got this knowledge and skill and capability now, so why is my future going to be different from my Dean Jackson:
Past?" My greatest learning about that, Dan, my transferable learning about the phone fasting is the value of inevitability, that the removal of any other option, that's really a thing that there's no willpower required when you've set up a system that makes something inevitable. So I look at those things and it's like any of the outcomes are pretty amazing. So very interesting thing. So you know our good friend, Ilko Dubois Dan Sullivan:
From Dean Jackson:
Amsterdam. So Ilko has just hired someone who travels everywhere they go, and his whole role is to create a healthy environment for Yoko, meaning he arranges and prepares and does all the food and does all the training, personal training with Ilko. So he enforces and makes the healthy choices inevitable, and that's a really- Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, he's like a head butler. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. But as a physical trainer, that's essentially what this guy is, and he owns some gyms in Amsterdam, but the business kind of runs itself. And now he travels wherever Ilko and the family goes, he's there and ensuring he's created that infrastructure, that scaffolding that makes the choices more Dan Sullivan:
There. Dean Jackson:
It's so funny, I think about those things, like if you think about the measurable outcome, health conditions are essentially future, they're bets, and there's a lot of, would have, should haves involved in health. I think what you're doing, all the choices that you're making with your health, with everything, is coming from a framework of intending to live to 156, and that you're not, in order to do that, your joints and your mobility and at a cellular level is going to have to be fit for the task. And that's why you're willing to go to Buenos Aires 11 times to ensure that outcome. Dan Sullivan:
And Nashville too. Nashville. Nashville. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, with David Housey. Well, the big thing is that we were talking about ... Yeah, who was I talking about this? I have a really great new, he's within the past year, physical therapist,
He's right here in Toronto and he's been in the program. He's not in the program right now, but he's been four years in the program and was in 10 times, but he's really, really quite prominent in that world. He worked with Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France. He's been consultant to several National Football League teams. So he has really quite a bit of experience at high level of performance. People are high performance. And we were talking about it and we were talking about everything has to be paid for. The big thing, people say, "Well, healthcare should be free." And I said, "That doesn't work because it wouldn't make you more healthy because you would blame everything on the system that is supporting you because you don't have a perception of paying for it, this has to be paid for. " And my sense is that people, right off the bat, if they would do two things every day, and that's a complete top to bottom health check at a very reputable clinic where they do full blood tests.
If you did that, it would just doing that twice a year and paying for it would guarantee you probably another 20 healthy years, anybody in HU, you could do that. But they think that should be given to us, those people, especially Canadians. Canadians believe that
Healthcare should be given to you. I don't think Americans do because America, you do have to pay for it and everything like that. But the testing is so good these days, and especially since AI has come into the picture now, like cancer, they can now identify your predisposition to almost any cancer at zero degrees. Yeah, Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
You die at the fourth level, fourth level of cancer. That's when you die, but now they can see from blood tests that about 10 things are converging to a point where you're going to develop some sort of cancer in your body, and that can be picked up three years before the The convergence actually happens and they can alter your diet, they can alter your behavior and everything like that. But you got to take ownership for it. This is the big thing. If you don't take ownership, it doesn't happen. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I remember hearing Craig Venter talk about that when we met him at Abundance A360 years ago. That was the big aha breakthrough in my mind was his thing saying it's not going to be about cancer treatment. It's going to be about cancer detection. That's the big win. And I think that that's absolutely true now. There's no reason for somebody to show up with stage four. Dan Sullivan:
Oh yeah. Yeah. There was just a US senator, a former US senator and he got fourth level pancreatic cancer. And pancreatic is the one that moves the fastest of all the cancers, it moves the fastest. But if you do it, you get a complete checkup every six months. It has predispositions that get picked up on, so you could actually interfere with that. And yeah, we're going through quite a thing here in Canada with medically assisted suicide. Have you been ... 100,000 Canadians have been assisted to commit suicide in the last- Yeah, I Dean Jackson:
Have Dan Sullivan:
A- Four or five years. It was a Trudeau, Justin Trudeau, this was a great idea of his. Let's help people commit suicide. Because of you. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, I had a good friend whose grandfather elected assisted suicide last year. Dan Sullivan:
And Dean Jackson:
So I got to observe it kind of ... Dan Sullivan:
One degree of separation. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Yes, exactly. And my observation, like at first, everybody was sort of upset, but grandpa had a terminal disease that was slowly killing him. His quality of life was really going down. It was becoming a burden on his wife who was his caregiver. And so he made the choice to do this. And it was about a month or so away before when he did it. And everybody initially was sort of shocked and sad and there's a lot of emotion around it. And then it was going to happen on a Monday and the whole family from everywhere came in and spent the weekend with him in the hospital. And he was surrounded by everybody that loved him and he loved. And then they got to have that last weekend with him. And then on Monday morning, they did the ... I guess it's an injection, I don't know, an IV or however they do Dan Sullivan:
It. It's a couple things. It's a couple things they do. Yeah. But Dean Jackson:
Their injections- And then he was gone. And so I thought on reflection, I thought about the other ... There's a certainty. He was going to die at an unknown time in the future where he would be completely diminished. And then it would be a surprise in the moment when it actually happened. And it would be grandpa died and then everybody would gather and have their commiseration and morning and stuff with the family, but without grandpa. And I realized there's a ... I don't know what's better. It was the first time I really kind of thought about that as a ... Comparing. "What's your thought?" Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, first of all, I've never had the thought, so there's been nothing in my life. And
The other thing is, I know people who've done it and I have no understanding whatsoever of what was going on with them when they did it. So it's kind of an empty ... It's an empty event. That's what I've discovered about is that when someone just dies as a natural course, it actually pulls people together. And what I've discovered from people who've had this happen and they've been knowledgeable and involved with it is it separates people. Each person sort of retreats into themselves, and so that's what I've noticed. And it's like Robin ... The other thing is, you can have an enormous lifetime of achievement. If you commit suicide, what people remember most about you is that you committed suicide. Robin Williams being a great example. People say, "What an amazing comedian." I said, "Yeah, but he committed suicide." Committed suicide. Yeah. Who was that?
Phillip Seymour Hoffman. Remember that actor? Yes. Tremendous actor. Dean Jackson:
Of Dan Sullivan:
Course. Yeah. Yeah. He committed suicide. And I said, "So my sense is that it's a mindset predisposition. It's not a physiological predisposition, that there's a series of mindsets that line up together. There's sort of a mindset stack, and it's the mindset stack that predisposes you to commit suicide. It's not a physiological predisposition. It's a mindset, predisposit. You were thinking suicidal thoughts 20 years before you actually committed suicide.That's my take on it. I mean, everybody's got their own take. Dean Jackson:
I mean, is it in Canada, can anybody just go and say, Hey, I don't want to live anymore? Or is it out of ... I thought about that as more of a compassionate type of relief from an inevitability kind of thing. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Is it something that- Dan Sullivan:
Well, I think it's complex. I think it's complex. I don't think there's any one contributing factor, but there was a major story in the weekly newspaper, the national poster, about a woman who was 84 and she had severe back pain. And she was having a particularly painful week, and she checked herself into the hospital because she needed medication to pain relief. And the first doctor said, "Do you want to commit suicide?" And she said, "Commit suicide?" "No, I want some pain relief from my back. "And she says," Well, we offer medically assisted suicide here. "And this was about a year ago, and it made her so angry that she went through a big physiotherapy thing, and now she's climbing mountains a year later, and she said," It woke me up. "She said," I was stupid. I was being stupid about my back. What I need to do is do some work.
"She did. And this is the first time I've seen an article where somebody was approached by the official medical system," Hey, you want to commit suicide? "We can do this for you. Yeah. Yeah. My sense is that fundamentally there's something wrong with the culture that it makes this something that they suggest. And my sense is that the healthcare system in Canada is so bad right now that they're just trying to cut costs. And if we can get somebody off the healthcare system by committing suicide, that'll be a good thing. We'll cut some costs here.
And I'm not saying that's the only dimension you think about, but my sense is if you start going in this direction, other participants join the parade as you're going towards it. Dean Jackson:
Join the parade. Oh my goodness. Yes. Dan Sullivan:
Pretty soon it'll be entertainment. You'll do it on stage and a hundred people will pay $50, which goes to charity and they can watch you die. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Oh my Dan Sullivan:
Goodness. I know how the world goes. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Plot, plop. Dan Sullivan:
Everybody wants to join. Dean Jackson:
Whatever relief it is. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Oh, man. Dan Sullivan:
I just saw a movie. I don't know if you've seen the movie, the project, Hail Mary. Have you seen that? I Dean Jackson:
Did. Yeah. Yeah. What did you think of that? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I thought it was well done because Babs had read the whole book and we went together. Shannon Waller and Bruce Green, we went to it. And those who had read the book or listened to the book felt that they did a good job of catching ... Missed a lot of the valleys, but they caught most of the mountaintops. Yeah, I thought it was good. I found it very engaging. It was very engrossing. And I thought Ryan, what's his name? Ryan- Dean Jackson:
Gosley. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Huh? Ryan Gosley. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I thought he was the perfect actor for that role. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Because it's essentially like a one ... It's a one man show really for most of it. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I walked out. I didn't think about it. I said," God, it's nice that Hollywood can still produce a good film because they haven't been recently. "First of all, this violates almost every rule of woke philosophy. You like the woman who runs the whole project to save the planet. She's a hard nosed bitch. She's a Strat. I think her name was Strat. And she manipulates him. She actually drugs him and puts him on board Chip to do it. But I thought it was just well done. The CGI was fantastic because they couldn't have done that with CGI. But I just thought the actor was, he was the perfect actor for it because he had no hero instincts whatsoever. He had no bravery instincts, but he ends up being a hero and he turns out being brave in spite of himself. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I was very ... When I do my Breakthrough Blueprint events, we go, one of the traditions on Monday evening, we go to the dine-in movies at the ... There's a place here called Studio Movie Grill, and they bring food to you and you so you have dinner and watch the movie. Dan Sullivan:
Sure. Dean Jackson:
And that was the choice. Very rarely is there a movie that is both critically an audience acclaimed in Rotten Tomatoes, as an example. This was in the high 90s on both sides. Dan Sullivan:
This one was. This one was? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, the neat thing about it, they just got into the movie. They didn't do anything, no credits or anything. They just started the movie and I like that. Dean Jackson:
I do too. I do too. Yeah. Yeah, it was really good. How often do you go to the movies? Dan Sullivan:
That was number four since the year 2020. Dean Jackson:
Okay. Oh, that's Dan Sullivan:
Cool. I went to see the green book. And I went to see Barbie. Dean Jackson:
Oh, did you? Okay. Dan Sullivan:
And I went to see F1. Okay. Dean Jackson:
There you go. Dan Sullivan:
F1 is Dean Jackson:
Really good too. Dan Sullivan:
I love that. I thought Brad Pitt, best movie ever for Brad Pitt. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. And well, Ryan Gossip was in Barbie King. I was just Dean Jackson:
Going to say that 50% of your movies involve Ryan Gosley. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, and he's good. I mean, I think he was just really ... He's got sort of a sympathetic personality. He's not trying to be anything. He's just going through life and things happen to him. I think Dean Jackson:
That he's Canadian, actually. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, he is. Yep. Dean Jackson:
Okay. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Still there. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And like many successful Canadians lives in the United States. Yes. Below the border. He's below the border Canadian. Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Still Dean Jackson:
Claim. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Still claiming. Dan Sullivan:
I mean, the author, Andy Weir, who he did The Martian. I think The Martian was his movie. And I mean, he creates some scientifically implausible situations to create the plot. How does a thing like this actually hop from solar system to solar system? I mean, any explanation how this thing ... It's a star eater, a star eater. And I said- Yeah. So he's got to create then he's got the coma gene, the coma gene that you can only be on that chip if you're resistant to dying from the coma. And so there's only 7,000 people on the planet who have resilience to that. But it's okay. I said, "He's creating the game and these are the rules of the game and let's just play inside Pearls." But I thoroughly enjoyed it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Dean Jackson:
I think that's awesome. Yeah. I got a great appetite for movies like that. I wonder now how long away we are from AI movies that are fully built out like that. It's amazing to see what's happening with music. Dan Sullivan:
Well, you know what I mean? We've had that for a hundred years with cartoon movies. Cartoon movies are ... Yeah. I mean, starting with the Walt Disney film. So we're used to created characters, but when it's very, very close to human, I think it's a different game. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. But I think, I mean, that level- Dan Sullivan:
I don't really care. I mean, I mean, if it's a good movie, it's a good movie.That's my attitude toward it. Dean Jackson:
I agree with you 100%. And it's kind of funny, like the whole ... Everybody's up in arms over the music and visual imagery stuff that everybody is jockeying for compensation for their work being used to train the model, but it's very funny that every single ... That's how every single original artist was trained by observing and taking in examples from their observation of life kind of thing, their experience, their inspiration. So it really is that AI is replicating what humans do is they Dan Sullivan:
Observe Dean Jackson:
And they filter and they output. Dan Sullivan:
Well, I mean, we had also the great example 20 years ago with the Lord of the Rings and the character of Golan. So that was Andy Circus, Andy Circus. And he made him so believably they did. He provided the motion and the voice, but the CGI people really created that. He was a totally credible character. I mean, he's one of the three central characters of that entire series and everything like that. I mean, aren't actors pretending to be somebody else? Dean Jackson:
That's exactly it. That's what I mean. Dan Sullivan:
Isn't that the skill of that particular profession that you can pretend to be someone else? Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah? Yeah. That's why I never enjoy Julia Roberts because Julia Roberts is just pretending to be Julia Roberts. I mean, it doesn't matter what film she's in, it's Julia Roberts. Yeah, Dean Jackson:
That's right. She's not ... And there are some ... I heard Jason Bateman talk about the same thing that he's not playing characters. He's not acting to be something else. He's just doing his interpretation of something, but basically being himself. Same thing with George Clooney, same thing with ... Dan Sullivan:
Oh yeah. Dean Jackson:
There's a lot of actors that are just themselves. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. And going back to the golden age of Hollywood, I mean, Clark Gable was Clark Giebel, Marilyn Monroe was Marilyn McGraw. So there's a section of the acting profession where you have ... The fan base has such an attachment to you that they actually want to just see you in the role. But then you have other actors, the current probably best is Gary Oldham. And Gary Oldham just becomes a completely different creature. Dean Jackson:
Yes. I think you're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah. There's a difference Dan Sullivan:
Between that. Alleghenis in the old days, Alleghenis, you'd have to check the credits to see who the actor was because he so completely immerses himself, but it's all part of the entertainment. Dean Jackson:
Philip Seymour Hoffman, which you were Dan Sullivan:
Just Dean Jackson:
Talking about, he Dan Sullivan:
Was Dean Jackson:
One of Dan Sullivan:
Those Dean Jackson:
Disappeared into roles. Dan Sullivan:
I think the biggest fear is I used to get paid for this and I'm not going to get paid for it in the future. I think that's the biggest fear. Right. I think the biggest fear that everybody shares is, how am I going to get paid to exist in the future? Dean Jackson:
Right. Yeah. I mean, but it's very ... I think the most creative of them is still going to position themselves up above ... You said that that always precedes like a human always is upstream of an AI. And so the smartest people, rather than staying where you are and lamenting that this AI is doing your job is get on top of it and Dan Sullivan:
Write Dean Jackson:
It to do your job better than with superpowers. Because just knowing it can do everything you can do accept your unique fingerprint, your unique thought, insight. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And besides that, nobody cares how you're feeling anyway. Dean Jackson:
Right. That's exactly Dan Sullivan:
Right. Yeah. I mean, you can download it. It's by Bloomberg, Bloomberg, and it was the end of Hollywood. It's about 13 minutes. It's just a series of interviews with some of the stars, some of them are ... George Clooney is interviewed, Tom Hanks is interviewed. I think those are the two big ones. And then just a lot of backstage people, writers and everything else. And they're all having a hissy fit, that this is crucial. Hollywood is crucial and everything like that. And what the series, whoever put this 13 minute film together, they said, "Your big problem is you're not interesting anymore. Your biggest problem is that movie going, fans just aren't interested in you anymore. They're not interested in your political views. They're not interested in your theological views. We're just not interested in what you're talking about or what you're trying to get us to do it.
" And I said, "Yeah." I mean, one of the key boxes you have to check in the entertainment world is that you have to be entertaining. Dean Jackson:
Yes. I think that's the big thing, right? If you look at, if we go all the way back to what people are objecting to is the mechanism that they used to do. I imagine that the scribes back in the day who were doing the hand transferring of manuscripts into volumes, right, into books, that they were ... It was just mechanizing the process that they did, but the content of the books is what was the real human thing. And I imagine the same thing before photography, they depended on portrait artists to capture with paint and skill, what they saw. Dan Sullivan:
Engravers, the engravers. Yeah. They had almost reached ... Just before photography, the quality of engraving had almost become photographic. The people were so good at it. And then it became technological, you could do it same way. Yeah. Well, it's interesting, but once ... I think what happened is they became politicized and we're not interested in mixing entertainment with politics. Most people aren't. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
And I thought that's why one of the reasons I enjoyed the project Hail Mary so much is that they just had a really good plot and they had really good characters and really good dialogue and that's it. They weren't trying ... It was Sam Goldwyn of MGM. He was one of the names, Metro ... Dean Jackson:
Metro Dan Sullivan:
Mayor. Goldwin Mayor. Mayor. Yeah. He was the G. And they complained to him that his movies didn't have a message and he said, "If I want to send a message, I'll go to a Western Union and send a message." He said, "I'm producing entertainment." Dean Jackson:
That's the best. Oh, what a great statement. Dan Sullivan:
I'm not sending messages. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
I'm entertaining people. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's got to be a message. I said, "I'm not sending messages." Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Oh, that's the best. Dan, I'm curious what your next ... Your full quarter now on creating a better past, what's the next evolution of that going into a new quarter? Dan Sullivan:
116 and really solidified the best four months. I mean, I'm just within four days of having a complete month and it's going to be the next quarterly book. It's called Yesterday Creates Tomorrow. That's the
Name of the book. And I start that. I'm just finishing up the current book, which is called Who We're Looking For. And this is the first time we're saying, "This is the type of person that we're looking for in Strategic Coach." And we just describe that person at their best and then we say, "In Strategic Coach, we have a community that supports you in being your best." You already have the experience of being your best, but it's a lot of work to keep it all together and we'll help with keeping your different aspects of your best behavior together. So that'll come out first week of June. It goes to the printer for a month. We'll have it in about two weeks. Anyway, but yeah, it's really great. And by far, it's just like your phone fest. These have been absolutely the best four months productive voice of my ... Yeah, so it's been great.
Yeah. And I'm talking to people about it, usually not in the workshop, but I talked to them at breaks and lunchtime and I said, "I've got this thing I'm working on, would you be interested in hearing it? " And then I take them through it and just about everybody gets the concept. Dean Jackson:
Well, that's exciting. I mean, I think it's really ... I think there's something there. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, I do too, but it feels good. I mean, the one thing is that my getting emotionally attached to the future is just not there anymore. I'm just not getting captured by some future possibility. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. You know what I love about these conversations, Dan, is just the experimenting that it's just kind of a ... I don't know that this is a natural or frequent conversation topic anywhere else on the planet than right here in Cloudland. Yeah. But people talking about the experimenting of creating a better future or a better past is it's something. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. I was describing, because this is public where it's recorded, but I was just describing in one of the workshops with free zone clients, what you're doing with the phone box and the lockdown, your lockdown box. Anyway, and people said, "Yeah, but what if you really need to get in touch with him?" I says, "Make sure it's afternoon. Make sure it's between what you should learn from my description of what he's doing is don't try to get in touch with him at 10 o'clock." Dean Jackson:
Oh my goodness. That's so funny. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
That's true, right? I mean, it's so ... Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a you problem. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. The rule is you can get in contact with anyone anytime you want. And I says, "Well, he's putting some rules. He's putting some boundaries up there." Yeah, Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. We have a client who just joined Coach Free Zone and he was talking about that his family ran sort of gas stations that had stores, like the early thing. And Washington state, not British Columbia, but Washington State, is that all of a sudden the entire industry of gas station stores adapted a rule that you couldn't use the bathrooms unless you spend at least $20 on- Dean Jackson:
Oh my goodness. Dan Sullivan:
... on gas. He said, "I'm a marketing genius because I said, yeah, you don't have to pay for the Dean Jackson:
Pee." Right. Dan Sullivan:
And people came in. And there's a certain amount of urgency related to- Yeah, of course. Yeah. And he'd come in and he said, and they were so thankful they'd buy twice as much just to be thankful. I mean, if you were in danger of not being able to get to the bathroom, but they let you do it, you'd pay almost anything. I think you're Dean Jackson:
Absolutely right. Dan Sullivan:
Out of gratitude. We were just talking about how you create competition free zones. So I said, "There's a competition free zone." Yeah. Yeah. I said the word went around that this was the only gas station that didn't charge him. He had lineups. He had lineups coming in. And everybody paid, everybody paid because they didn't have to pay. Dean Jackson:
That's amazing, right? There's a chain of stores in the Southeast called Bucky's, and that's one of their- Dan Sullivan:
Are you talking Stuckey's or Duckies? Dean Jackson:
No, Bucky's, B-U-C. Dan Sullivan:
Oh, Buckies. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, Buc-ees. And it's become ... They pride themselves. They pay super salaries to people who are in charge of making the bathrooms sparkle at all Dan Sullivan:
Times. Oh Dean Jackson:
Yeah.That's a big thing. And they have more gas pumps per square foot than anywhere else, like super number of gas. So you're always going to get a pump and you're always going to have a- Dan Sullivan:
A dump. Dean Jackson:
Get a pump. Dan Sullivan:
Pump and dump. Dean Jackson:
Who's the marketing genius now? Dan Sullivan:
Who can compete with that? Pump and dump. Dean Jackson:
There we go. I think we've said it all, Dan. I think we should leave it on a high note with that. Dan Sullivan:
Okay. All right. Dean Jackson:
That's perfect. I'll Dan Sullivan:
Talk to you next week. Dean Jackson:
Bye. Dan Sullivan:
Okay, great. Bye.
Rick Rubin has produced some of the most celebrated music in history without being able to play an instrument, his edge is knowing what he likes and being decisive.
Dean’s framework for evaluating past decisions: “could have” acknowledges options, “would have” shifts blame outward, and “should have” is the only one with real emotional weight.
The next decade belongs to people who think what they think, like what they like, and do what they do best, because those are the bets most likely to pay off.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean Jackson:
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan. Dan Sullivan:
I'm here. I'm here. Dean Jackson:
Okay. There You go Dan Sullivan:
I can get about 10, 15 seconds of you preparing to focus on the next hour. Dean Jackson:
You can? Okay. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. I can hear packages crumbling. I can hear ... Dean Jackson:
Things are getting in order here, moving Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Little bit of backstage before we get the front stage. I think that adds authenticity to the podcast. Flavor. Flavor. So Dean Jackson:
They know it's real. Dan Sullivan:
It's Dean Jackson:
Not AI Dan and AI Dean talking. Dan Sullivan:
So here's a question for you. Do you notice yourself becoming more human the more AI becomes pervasive? Dean Jackson:
Yeah. It's the way. Dan Sullivan:
In other words, real lationship. Dean Jackson:
Yes. I think you're absolutely right.That's what I'm really noticing. It was a very interesting thing. This morning I went over to the cafe. I have to leave a little earlier because at 11, we do our podcast, but what had happened was I put a watch on today that I is an analog watch. Dan Sullivan:
So it didn't account for the time change. Dean Jackson:
Daylight savings. Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
And then I got in my car and I realized, oh my goodness. I haven't accounted for the time. That's funny. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, you're- Dean Jackson:
How would we know, right? Our bodies don't know. It's so ... Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, I noticed coming to Chicago, so I'm in Chicago today. And I really noticed the impact of daylight savings time because Chicago is right at the beginning, the new time zone. I mean, the time zone I'm in all the way for Chicago and Dallas are in the same time zone. Yeah. But Dallas would be very, very late in the time zone. Chicago's very early. So I noticed it. I don't notice it that much in Toronto because Toronto is more in the second half of the Eastern time zone. And so I don't notice the difference, but I was really struck. There's two things. One is you wake up. We slept in almost till seven this morning, seven o'clock, which would have been eight o'clock in Toronto. But on a travel day, my end of day sense of time gets a little bit screwed up, especially when I've moved from one time zone to the other.
So we usually get to bed later. So we didn't get to bed till 10:30 Chicago time. And we went eight and a half hours. I slept eight. I was in bed eight and a half hours. I never sleep eight and a half hours.
But boy, it was really bright. But then the jets start taking off and landing at seven Dean Jackson:
O'clock. Dan Sullivan:
And we're right in the flight zone for O'Hare. They literally come right over our house. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Well, it's Dan Sullivan:
So Dean Jackson:
Convenient for Strategic Coach, but ... Dan Sullivan:
Oh yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yes. I get it. Not so good Dan Sullivan:
For Dean Jackson:
Morning sleeping. Dan Sullivan:
That was a series of happy accidents actually. We had been looking ... When we first got here, we used hotels, but they've got to the point where we had ... When you reach about 400 quarterly, you have 400 people come. Yeah. 400 coming. Then you want to switch over from paying for hotels to having your own conference center. So that's our number is about 400. And for example, we're not there yet in Los Angeles. We're not to the 400 mark. And there's no good solution to Los Angeles because the state taxes you, the county taxes you. Oh Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
And where we do our workshops in Los Angeles, it's the division between two municipalities. Part of the hotel is in Venice, and the other part of the hotel is in Santa Monica, and they both tax you. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, that's crazy. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. So we would never have- Dean Jackson:
Where Dan Sullivan:
Is that? Where is it? Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Where is the hotel in Santa Monica? Dan Sullivan:
Well, it's right on Ocean Boulevard. So it's on the main drag in Ocean Boulevard, but we're ... You know where sort of the park is that has all the palm trees? Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're further south than that. We're probably a quarter of a mile south of the ... Dean Jackson:
Like the Lowe's hotel there? Dan Sullivan:
Just one hotel further, one for hotel further Lowe's. And so anyway, but it's really interesting. I mean, first of all, California being what it is right now, we would never have an office in Los Angeles like we have in Chicago because for lots of reasons. Chicago really works because we're right across from the runways at O'Hare, so it works really well. And our home, we're about 15 minutes from the airport from our home, so it's good. Yeah. Yeah. But we're right in the flight path and not much you can do about flight paths. Dean Jackson:
That's true. Unless you're Donald Trump, get them diverted. Dan Sullivan:
Well, they don't fly over his home in- Dean Jackson:
It was an interesting joke. Dan Sullivan:
It wasn't a joke. It wasn't a joke. It was a real thing. Dean Jackson:
Oh, okay. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Conrad Black told the story. Dean Jackson:
What's the official story then? Because I've heard- Dan Sullivan:
Well, the story is when he moved into Mar-a-Lago and it took him a long time to get ... That was contested because the people of Palm Beach, whoever, the influential people in Palm Beach, they did not want Donald Trump in Palm Beach. So I think it took him ... I'd just be picking a number out of the air here, but I think it was five or six years before he could actually get ownership. And the other thing is it was ... Mar-Lago was something that was going to be torn down and divided into a lot of different new homes because it's like a hundred rooms in Mar-a-Lago and it's from the early 20th century. And so- The Dean Jackson:
Gilded age. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. It was a gilded age mansion. And so they disagreed with that because a lot of them are invested in real estate themselves. And that, I mean, the value of that property, because it goes from the inner waterway, what's that called? To Dean Jackson:
The ocean, the inner coastal. Dan Sullivan:
So it goes right from the intercoastal right across the main street and it has the beach too that goes right to the Atlantic. So I mean, just a prime piece of property. I mean, what that property would be worth is enormous. And so he got it, and then he noticed when he finally moved in, that planes from the local airport would fly right across his house. And he says, "Well, we got to stop that. I want to get a ruling that they can't fly over my house." And they said, "That's the flight path, that's the flight path." And he says, "Well, how could I stop that being the flight path?" And they said, "Well, you could be elected president of the United States." Dean Jackson:
Okay, done. Dan Sullivan:
Note to self. Dean Jackson:
Hold my beer, as they Dan Sullivan:
Say. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Okay. Hold my beer. I'll be right back. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's like the president of Venezuela saying, "Well, what are you going to do? Come and get me? Dean Jackson:
" Yes, exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Note to self. Dean Jackson:
That's so funny. I saw today, somebody showed me there's a rumor or news going around that Iran is hacking the American financial system and erasing people's debt from these credit card companies. Yeah, exactly. So all the people on TikTok and stuff are saying- Well- Do they need my social security number? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, conspiracies are more fun than facts. Oh, Dean Jackson:
Absolutely they are. Dan Sullivan:
You're absolutely right. Yeah. And I mean, virtually all to a certain extent, within the last, let's say, 25 years, most Hollywood films and TV series, not necessarily Hollywood, but TV series are actual conspiracies. And I read a lot of, I've just read two by different authors. One was Mark Dawson, terrific writer out of Great Britain that dealt with a Chinese situation where China's developing a super weapon of one kind or another. And then I just read another one. Who is this one? Oh, Brad Thor. Is that his name? Very famous. A movie. Yeah.
Anyway, but they both dealt with Chinese. The one of them was a AI program that could take over all other AI programs. And the Chinese had developed this weapon, but the scientists who developed it wanted to defect to the United States. So that's the basic plot line. And the other one is a Chinese scientist who had created a bio weapon, basically a bio weapon, and he too was trying to defect to the United States. So that's the plot line for both of them. And it got me thinking that I bet books like this are not written in China. I bet you would probably not see Chinese novelists writing books like this. You're Dean Jackson:
Probably right. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. So you have this interesting thing in America, you also have it in Great Britain where individual writers can come up with a plot and they probably have contacts in the intelligence services where they can get certain facts about what the intelligence services are, sort of games that they're playing. What if the Chinese did this? What if the Chinese did that? How would we respond? So there's this whole way of thinking about things which are fiction. They're actually fiction, but could be possibilities. And that gives, I think, the country that has the freest press and advantage because the military or the intelligence service can go to a novel and say, "We're going to feed you some plot lines and we'd like you to develop this into a story and we'll read the story and then we'll use your story to create new war games for ourselves." What do you think about that? Dean Jackson:
Yes. Yes. I mean, there's so many ... I don't know what it is about conspiracy things or this conspiracy thinking that is so pervasive why we want to spend time thinking these kind of things. I think part of the reason that it kind of grows is because of our ability to spread them now and now even the ability for AI to create them and spread them. I mean, it's like multiplying on top of it. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. Jeff Madoff sent me an article by a really good technology thinker by the name of Tim Wu. And I've read about three or four of his books and he's very, very insightful. And during the Biden administration, he was sort of in the White House think tank that was thinking about AI because AI came in during the Biden administration. And anyway, but he's talking about how high school students are now starting to reject the attempt on the part of the schools, like the faculty of the schools, the teachers, to use AI, that they won't accept any attempt by the school to, first of all, to find out the activities of the students. They're rejecting that and that they also have any message that comes out from the administration, from the principal or from the teachers, any attempt. And the students are really quick to notice that the teachers and the principals are using AI and they're absolutely rejecting, being done to by the administration, because the whole point of AI is that you can bypass the administration. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. That's wild. When you look at the ... Yeah, I mean, where do you project? Where do you see this going if you bring now AI into this? Go into the Dan Sullivan:
Way we Dean Jackson:
Think about that. Dan Sullivan:
Well, I think it depends upon who you are. More and more, if you try to predict the use of AI, you have to start with the actual individual who's using the AI. Yeah. Okay? Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
And that's not been true about previous technologies. And the reason is because it gives such instant individual capabilities that you have to think at a totally different level now. You say, "Well, where's AI going? " And I said, "Give me 10 people and I'll tell you 10 different ways AI is going- Dean Jackson:
Right, right. It's funny. I was just having a conversation with Eben Pagan yesterday about this, explaining the difference between capability and ability, Dan Sullivan:
And Dean Jackson:
That AI certainly gives every ... It's democratized capability, but you still need vision and ability to use that capability. I think you just said it on the head that that's really the thing that there's never been a time where literally one person could do everything. I mean- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
We've never had the ability for an individual to go exponential. And I think that's the crossover if you're looking for a historical crossover. I said the moment that you have AI, individuals now become exponentially more unpredictable, which for a conspiracist is a scary thought. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it was funny, it was mentioning you to Eben about the idea, because I'm much more in your camp of keeping a human between you and the technology. And I think that that's really the ... I think that if it requires a vision, which that is, I think, where we can excel as human ... Like you were saying, everything is kind of upstream of AI. It requires, first of all, a vision Dan Sullivan:
Has Dean Jackson:
To have a directive for the AI. And the AI is the capability is that the real partnership of the human then is to partner your vision with someone who has the ability to use the capabilities, the tools of AI. I think where the thing is, because I think it's going to under-optimize even if it were me going to try and learn the moves, how to use the capabilities, there's a lot of friction in that. That's a lot of how. Dan Sullivan:
Oh yeah. Dean Jackson:
You know what I mean? There's a lot of how ... That's been my realization that I think what's important is for me personally to expand my vision of what's capable, what this AI is capable of, and not investing any time in developing a technical ability to use the capability, but expanding my network that way. Dan Sullivan:
Vision is the win. It seems to me that you're taking the who, not how
Concept, which is yours to begin with, to a different dimension. And that is one of the things I noticed, and I think it's a function of age, is that my sense of discretion about what's worth even an hour of my time has grown. And in that sense, there's a question I have, and that is, can I be uniquely good at this? And I said, "I can only be uniquely good at what I'm already uniquely good at." So if it's teamwork with other people, I want the teamwork to enable me to be better at what I'm already great at. Same thing with technology. Dean Jackson:
Yes. I think that's my lane. I've really, really figured that out now, even in more that conversation with Eben, I really think that what I can be uniquely great at is a vision of how these, of seeing ways that these capabilities could be deployed, like what's possible with those things, and then building a relationship with the who's who have that ability, because a lot of those things, even the ones that have the ability to use the capabilities, to use the tools, they may know technically how to do all of this stuff, but they don't have the ... They have a technical proficiency at it, but not a vision for what to do. They would do things as instructed kind of thing. If you tell them anything you want
To do, they could figure out how to make that happen. It goes back to that, I just wrote an email about it recently with Quentin Tarantino when I saw that Charlie Rose interview with him where he was describing a lunch that he had as aspiring filmmaker at Sundance with Terry Gilliam, who was at the time and is known for getting amazed his vision on the screen. And Quentin asked him at lunch, "How do you do that? How do you get your vision on the screen?" And Terry Gilliam told him, "Well, that's not your job." First of all, you can hire the best cinematographer, the director of photography, who knows what lenses and what exposures and what framing will get that on the screen. And you can hire the best lighting director who can create the right mood, create the costume directors and everything, all the people around you, your job is not to know how to do all of those things, but your job is to describe what you want, describe your vision.
That's all you have to do. And I think that's really the thing. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. The interesting thing about that is that I have my top 10 movies, my lifetime, top 10 movies and- If Dean Jackson:
I've ever been Dan Sullivan:
Posed Dean Jackson:
To your lifetime Dan Sullivan:
10 years. Yeah. And my all time favorite is a Danish film, but it's called The Babettes Feast. Okay. And I think it won the Academy Award for best foreign film a long time ago. I mean, it's 25, probably 25, 30 years ago. And it's a very magical film. And I won't use up time here, but if you look it up, it's really great. And I've seen it six or seven times, so it's for myself. Number two is Casa Blanca with Humphrey Bogard.
And that is probably in the history of films that became great that were not thought so at the beginning. That's probably all the all time champ because it was MGM and it was one of 60 films that MGM was producing at the same time. And originally, I think the main actor, Humphrey Bogart is the main actor, but originally it was supposed to be Ronald Reagan and because of scheduling and everything else, they ended up with Humphrey Bogart. They ended up with Humphrey Bogart. We can say, "Oh, now they had the second choice, somebody named Humphrey Bogart." And then Ingrid Bergman, it was supposed to be Susan Hayward. It was supposed to be very famous. And the reason was it wasn't supposed to be a great film. They didn't want a great film, they just wanted a new film on Tuesday. Ah, right. We need Dean Jackson:
One on Dan Sullivan:
Tuesday.
Yeah. But one of the things that's very, very interesting, they couldn't find a writer for the whole movie. And what they found was they had to have two writers. They had to have a romantic writer for the relationship between the Humphrey Bogart character and Ingrid Bergman, and then they had to have an action writer for basically the plot line writer. And all through the film, they were trying something out and it didn't work. So they brought in another who, you know, who could do it. And it's that experimental constantly innovating quality of what they were doing. And everybody hated the experience, like virtually everybody who was involved in this film hated the experience because there wasn't a set thing that they were just following through, the vision of one person and everybody had a say in it. And it's very interesting. There's some nice documentaries, why it turned out to be such a great film, and it's because it was kind of trial and error and experimental on everybody's part going through the film.
Yeah. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
That's amazing. So I'm curious now, what are a couple others on your top 10? Dan Sullivan:
Well, all three of the Lord of the Rings. Dean Jackson:
Oh, really? Dan Sullivan:
Okay. Peter Jackson. I think that's just such a phenomenally ... First of all, it's a very, very good translation of the book. The book. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's some characters left out. There's some whole situations left out, but he really captured it. And part of it was, it was all done at one time. All three films were shot at the same time. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, for over years though, right? It wasn't ... Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I think it was about a year and a half, year and a half. Is that right? We got all three films. And the reason is because they just couldn't get that kind of team back together again for a second movie and then a third movie. And nobody died like in Harry Potter, the main character, the main character died. And was it Dumbledore? I think Dumbledore. Right. And so that's always a great risk when you're making a film like that. And I can go down the list. I can't remember them right off the top here, but actually Mississippi Burning was one of my favorite all time movies, Gene Hackman. And these are just movies I would see over and over again. I just enjoy watching them. That's my ... When it comes to movies, I don't think there's any consensus on what the top 10 movies because I think- No, Dean Jackson:
I think Dan Sullivan:
Everybody's true. It's so subjective. It's so subjective. And it should be. And it should be. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, yeah. I tend to really like thinking about movies more than looking at movies. I'm not action movies are like my least favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Like the seven Sumerai, the original Japanese one I watched. A lot of his movies really are Kara Sawa, the film director. And yeah, it's what appeals to you. Dean Jackson:
And I like Quentin Tarantino movies, but there's a guy who's like, that's a vision. I like it even more. Now that you know that about it, that he doesn't know any of the technical things.
I'm really kind of ... You see that more and more, or you recognize that more and more. I saw on 60 Minutes, they had a thing with Rick Rubin. Do you know who Rick Rubin is, the music producer? And it was pretty fascinating because he's produced some of the most amazing music, but he has no musical ability. He barely plays any ... That was the thing. Anderson Cooper asked him, "Do you play music and he said barely on his guitar and he has no musical ability. He doesn't touch the knobs and dials or whatever. And Anderson said, "Well, why do people pay you? " And he said, "Well, I know what I like and I'm very decisive about that. And artists have found that helpful." Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
And it's pretty interesting to hear that. He's got an ear. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. It's liking what you like. Dean Jackson:
Exactly. It's a very interesting thing that he says in all art that the audience comes last. The whole point of being an artist is making things that you like. That's the thing. When you 100% lean into what you like and you make the best thing that pleases you so much so that you want to share it with other people, that's what art really is more than trying to make art that pleases somebody or for an audience. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
And I think there's something interesting Dan Sullivan:
About that. Yeah. I mean, it's risky, but there's something about people doubling down and taking the risk. I'm just going to double down on what I really like. I mean, you can totally miss the ... I mean, you can totally miss the target as far as popular appeal goes. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
I mean, nobody likes that. But there's something ... First of all, that act of courage of just staying with the thing that you really like, most people don't have that courage. Dean Jackson:
Right. Yeah. And in a lot of ways, you think about what you ... All of the thinking tools with Strategic Coach are really an expression of you thinking about your thinking. Dan Sullivan:
Yep. Dean Jackson:
I mean, that's really what it is, right? I mean, it's like your ... And it's worked for you. And it gathers a lot of people who are just like you. It's a very interesting ... Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. The quarterly book I'm writing is going to be an interesting one. And it's going to work absolutely, or I think it's not going to work at all. It's called Who We're Looking For. And I just describe the experience of an entrepreneur who just gets total value out of Strategic Coach. And it's more of a thing that they're already doing, but they don't realize that they're doing this. And what we say is that what you're doing here, you're already doing this, you're already good at this, and now we're going to tell you why it's so important that you do this the way that you do it. Dean Jackson:
That's interesting. When is that one coming? Dan Sullivan:
That'll be first week of June. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Okay. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. The one that comes out, it actually comes out this week is called Guessing and Betting Confidence. I Dean Jackson:
Like Dan Sullivan:
That. The future is all guessing and betting, but are you confident about guessing and betting? Because the difference between guessers and betters is that some of them have a higher level of confidence. Among my people I know, I've got some really very strong Trump haters. Dean Jackson:
Yes. Dan Sullivan:
But I like the people. I like the people I'm talking to. Yes. And I know how they're ... And they said, now he's really done it. Now he's really in the soup with this war with Iran. And I says," Well, it's a guess and a bet, isn't it? It's really a guess and a bet. "And I said," On the Iranian side, they were guessing and betting that he's not going to do it. "And that was a bad guess and a bad bet. So I said," The future is just guessing and betting. "I remember when he first, he came down the escalator at the Trump Tower and said," I'm going to run for President. "And it was just comedy hour on mainstream television for ... Yeah. Can you imagine this guy running for president? Oh yeah. The joke. And Dean Jackson:
One of my favorite nights in all of television history was election night, 2016. Dan Sullivan:
I've got a whole file- CNN. Dean Jackson:
I mean, watching- Dan Sullivan:
All the networks. Dean Jackson:
Watching Wolf Blitzer come to the conclusion that it's hopeless that Hillary's not going to win because you and I have talked about that before. It's like they were kicking off the broadcast with speculation of who's going to be in Hillary's cabinet and what's the ... It was all a foregone conclusion. They're already talking beyond. And to see the light just sort of dim from them as they realize what's happening. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Have you ever seen it, and I'm not quite sure even where it appears, but they're called the Young Turks. Have you ever seen that? Dean Jackson:
Yeah, they were on ... Yeah, I think they kind of got banned or in some way they're not in their own platform there. Everybody went in their own way, like Glenbeck and Young Turks and Phil Wars, all those things. They all got deplatformed kind of thing. Yeah. But Dan Sullivan:
I remember because I've watched the program because at seven o'clock, they came on at seven in the evening and they said," Well, the New York Times, 91% certainty that Hillary is going to be the next president of the US. "And then a half hour later is saying," Oh, now it's 78%. "Then at nine o'clock it's 56% when they said," Now it's Trump 91%. Dean Jackson:
"Unbelievable, right? Dan Sullivan:
I mean, Dean Jackson:
What a thing. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. I've got all those saved. That's my Shaden Freud. It's my Shaden Freud. Sad and Dean Jackson:
Freud, that's such Dan Sullivan:
A Dean Jackson:
Good ... Dan Sullivan:
I was using that Dean Jackson:
Word. Dan Sullivan:
Extreme enjoyment out of other people's misery. Dean Jackson:
Oh yeah, yeah. That's so funny. I pulled out that word the other day, the Shaden Freud, you have this thing of taking Shadenfornistic delight in something, but it was so funny. But we were talking last week about guessing and betting. And one of the things, I had some thoughts this week around that, because it harmonizes with this idea of creating a better past. And one of the ... When I start looking back at what is it about the past that is ... What will make a better path, a Dan Sullivan:
Better Dean Jackson:
Past, is that we would have made better guesses Dan Sullivan:
Or Dean Jackson:
Better- Dan Sullivan:
No, better beths. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah. This is the thing is that that's what I realized on reflection that I am a really good guesser and that's an interesting thing, right? But when I looked at it, that at the end, when you're looking backwards at the past, the things that you're going to be evaluating or excusing your underperformance or your wrong or bad guesses or bets is the three different flavors of I could have, I would have, or I should have. And it's a very interesting, slight different dynamic in those words because I could have means I had the option, but I didn't do it. I was aware that I had the option and it's a really ... The things that have the ... Where we attach emotion to it, the only one that has emotion to it is I should have. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Because should have is a feeling of you're attaching a negativity to it, right? There's a less emotional charge to what could have. Dan Sullivan:
I think it's totally ... It's kind of like a rewriting of what you actually did. It's a Dean Jackson:
Revisionist. Dan Sullivan:
That's right. It's a complete revisionism. Dean Jackson:
And nobody ever says should have. When somebody is looking at somebody else's past decisions, they say," You should have done this, "but when people are evaluating their own, it's," I would have. "It would have is an external blame shifting. Well, I would have done that if this, like some external thing, I would have if I knew or if I had that or whatever, but could is really a ... That's the one that acknowledges that you had the
Option. And I think that it's a very ... So I was looking at ... The words that came to me were choosing your regret. What we can do today is let's choose our regret. You can either choose ... And it's going to come from acknowledging ... You can only do what you recognize as your options today. You recognize that you have, " I could do this and I could do and I could. "That's an interesting thing on its own, right? If you just kind of acknowledge, that's where the guessing comes in. Where is this going to be? I think if we're having this conversation 10 years from now, Dan, 10 years of Sundays from now, we're having a conversation like this, which I hope we are, that it's going to be a pretty good guess that AI is going to be way more integrated than what it is right now and that robots are going to be definitely a part of our lot in some way.
You can see right now looking forward what are going to be the things. So when you start evaluating, what could we do if we were certain that that's the outcome, which is almost certain now. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Well, my main prediction, and it's just based on what other technologies have done, is that there's actually going to be more jobs as a result of AI, but they're going to follow more the pattern what people are really good at. I was just reading it a week before last was the 250th anniversary of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations and that's probably the most consequential economics ... It's sort of economics, but it's more human nature, basically human nature because they didn't have a thing called economics in those days, there wasn't a term for looking at the economy, but he was just looking at how people ... And it's really a book about incentives. It's a book as what- Dean Jackson:
Yeah, the silent hand, exactly. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. The invisible hand. Invisible Dean Jackson:
Hand. Yeah, Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Yeah. And basically, what is it that individuals respond to that the collective impact of people choosing what they want actually does everybody good, basically. That's what his main point and his main concept and a lot of ... I mean, we know Adam Smith, but actually Adam Smith was reflecting ... When you hear about somebody famous who came up with this idea, if you had the ability to go back and really look at, it was a conversation that was going on among 20 or 30 people, but this person just became famous for the idea that came out of all those discussions. So that same thing with Mark's. I mean, the stuff Marx was talking about was what a lot of people were talking about. But the main concept at the very, very center is the division of labor, that if you can have this person doing this all the time and this person doing this all the time, and you put the two contributions together, it's greater than two people than everybody just doing their own thing or everybody doing the whole thing, you just have them do the part of the thing that they're doing.
And then you have 250 years of the development of that idea and all the technology that's emerged. So steam engine was the big thing that was at factories and steam engines was the big thing that was happening in 1776, so March of 1776. And Adam Smith was reflecting that this seems to be a growing trend. And now we're at AI and you and I are having the discussion about AI and where's the AI going. But my feeling is that what I think you're seeing now is the collaboration of unique abilities. It's not the division of labor, it's ... AI is doing the division of labor and now humans can jump to the collaboration of unique abilities. Dean Jackson:
I'm guessing and betting that that's what the VCR formula is going to facilitate is as a formula for people to collaborate. And that was the recognition that I had of the category, the categories that everybody has strengths in one of those in either vision or capabilities or reach. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Well, each person has a unique ability that's exciting enough that two other people with different abilities would Dean Jackson:
Collaborate. Yes. Yes. Agreed. I mean, you think about it's never been a more exciting time kind of ... I guess that's always ... You could say that it's true of any time, right? I mean, it's like ... I remember there's a thing in ... Did you see the musical Hamilton? Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah. So that whole where they're the 1770s looking at the revolution, everything happening and there's one of the numbers is that there's never been ... Look around, everything is so exciting now. There's so much change in the air and every ... I think that's true. You could say that at every juncture, if that's what you're choosing. It's like what you always say, right? Your eyes only see and your ears only hear what Dan Sullivan:
You- Yeah. It's really interesting because for some people, these are the worst of times. Dean Jackson:
Right. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
No, I mean- Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
I bet for the Ayatollah in February was a better month than March. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Yeah. But now you look at all of the things ... This is also the thing now, all the online stuff now is that the Iranians have kind of chosen his son as the new leader. Dan Sullivan:
Who we have no proof that he's alive. Dean Jackson:
Right, exactly. But it's interesting that now they're painting that narrative that now you've got his son who's 50s, in his 50s, as opposed to an aging 80 year old guy who's- Dan Sullivan:
86, 86. Yeah, Dean Jackson:
86 that now he's in his 50s and he's mad that you killed his dad and his mom and his wife and sisters only ... You got an angry guy now in the position of leadership, but this is where disconnecting from all of that stuff, it's all that noise. Dan Sullivan:
I mean, there's some things we know now that we didn't know a month ago. One is we thought that they were more powerful than they were. Okay. They had just imported close to a trillion dollars of the latest Chinese and Russian air detection, and they had all this, and that one US or Israeli plane has been shut down and there's been 5,000, 5,000 sorties. So none of that technology was any ... My sense is that the Iranians are a minor player in this whole situation. I think the Chinese are the major player. And I think that the fact that the US is now engaging in decapitating the leadership of the country. They've done it twice now and I think that has now become a major topic of discussion in Russia. It's become a major discussion, certainly in Cuba right now, Cuba, because Cuba has just run out of energy.
I mean, they're gone as a country right now, unless they do a deal with the United States. But China is ... They've been talking about how powerful they are militarily, but none of their stuff works against the enemy, none of their stuff. So that really changes. The major conversation has to do with Taiwan, and you saw the expert on the Democratic side, AOC, her expertise on Taiwan. Did you see that? Dean Jackson:
I did not. No. Oh, Dan Sullivan:
You should go look at it. It's a career changing. She spent a career changing two or three minutes and revealing that she doesn't really know too much about the world besides what goes on outside of the Bronx. Dean Jackson:
What did it for me with AOC was how delighted she was when Amazon chose not to relocate to New York and now they could give the $7 billion in tax credit. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Well, boy, we kept those 20,000 jobs from coming into. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Now we can give that seven billion to the teachers and the things and whatever without Dan Sullivan:
A Dean Jackson:
Hint of understanding. Dan Sullivan:
The interesting thing is that everybody's ... I think what's happening right now, and our conversation has been a lot about this, is it's like thinking about what are you thinking about? The other thing is liking what you like, and the other thing is doing more of what you do, doing more of what you do, and that gives you a read on what's going to happen in the future. If you're in touch with ... So that sort of vision, capability, and reach, and everybody's sense of the future is what is it that you're uniquely putting together that relates to your unique ability and other people's unique ability, and that gives you a vision of the future, because you're going to make the best bets and the best bets on what it is that's uniquely yours. Dean Jackson:
I like that. Thinking what you think, liking what you like. Dan Sullivan:
And doing what you do your best. Yeah. And that doesn't have to do with creating conspiracies about the future. That's all based on solid evidence. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I think that's pretty amazing, actually. Yeah, that's good. I think that's really a good ... I'm going to think that through this week, along that same thing of the choosing your regret is ... That's like creating a better past is ... Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Dean Jackson:
It's an interesting thing, right? It's a nice juxtaposition of words. Do you normally Dan Sullivan:
Have to Dean Jackson:
Choose? Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
And that was an hour well spent. Dean Jackson:
It really was. Was it already an hour? Holy cow. Yes. Well, Dan, these conversations are always a delight. I can guess and bet that they will continue being a delight long into the future. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And I can promise you that next week I'll put just as much preparation into that one as I did to this one. Dean Jackson:
Same. You know what, Dan? Just keep thinking what you think. Dan Sullivan:
Liking Dean Jackson:
What you like and doing what you do best, and we'll come back here next week and talk about it. Dan Sullivan:
It's all the preparation you need. Dean Jackson:
That's exactly right. Dan Sullivan:
Okay. I love it. Thanks, Dan. Dean Jackson:
Bye. Dan Sullivan:
Bye.
Dan's rule for unhappiness: at the bottom of every persistent dissatisfaction, you'll find someone having an unwinnable argument with time.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean:
Welcome to Claudelandia. Mr. Sullivan. There he is. Are you in Argentina? Dan:
Nope, nope. Dean:
No, I'm Dan:
Back in Toronto. No, we arrived about noon yesterday. We got back. Yeah. Dean:
Okay. Joe is on his way. Dan:
Yep. Yep. He left last night. Dean:
Well, he didn't leave last night actually. Well, he missed his connection. So that's a problem. Yeah, hopefully he figured it out, but he was definitely on the ... We're not happy till you're not happy airline experience program. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
So Garnet and Shirley, they were on the flight that took off. He was so frustrated. Yeah, he was so frustrated because he was on the runway or on the ramp and they were just taken off, so he missed just barely. Dan:
You know, people are not necessarily talk about Joe, but I noticed a lot of people are throughout their entire life, they're about three hours late. Dean:
Oh, just missed. Yeah, exactly. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. And if they just take one future event or one present event out of their life, they'd be on time, but there's always one thing that makes them three hours late. Dean:
That's funny. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
So you're in Toronto now? Dan:
Yeah, just got back. Yeah. Yeah. Dean:
Perfect. Dan:
And the snow is starting to melt. Dean:
Okay. That's what I hear. Dan:
That's Dean:
What I hear. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. The power went out in our neighborhood last night. Suddenly it was just completely black, but at our house, five seconds later, the generator kicked in and we had full lights, electricity. Everything was working. Dean:
Oh, see? Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
That's why you get a generator, right? Dan:
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Dean:
Because that's like doing an experience transformer in advance. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
Looking forward. Dan:
I remember a New Yorker cartoon a long time ago, 30, 35 years. And it shows this elderly couple standing at a corner in New York City, a street corner. And right in the middle of the intersection is a dead elephant. Dean:
Oh my. Dan:
And the wife, the older lady is saying to her husband, "Elmer, I'm never going to complain about you bringing that elephant gun with you on a date." Dean:
Oh my goodness. That's so funny. Better, safe than sorry. Dan:
You never know when the elephant's going to show up. Dean:
That's exactly right. Better to have the gun and not need it. Oh Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It may be socially awkward, but you never know when you're going to need that elephant gun. Dean:
I love it. So this is- Dan:
This is our 11th trip to Buenos Aires. Dean:
So what's the progress report? Dan:
Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I'm the oldest patient that they've ever had at this clinic who's doing this procedure where you're replacing a cartilage and it's completely back. But what they've discovered is that it's a very young cartilage. It's an early life cartridge, which is okay if you're 13 pounds. Dean:
Right. Dan:
Yeah. But I weigh more than 13 pounds. And so it's a brand new cartilage. It's completely back. So if I do an MRI lying down, it's completely back. But if I do an MRI with me standing with my full weight, it's as if nothing's happened yet. Dean:
Oh, really? And that's ... Well, what's the protocol for that too? Dan:
It's kind of a gelatin that they put into the knee now, and it gradually kind of creates a structure in there. I think this is from the cosmetic world, where they put this in people's Dean:
Cheeks or they- Wharton's jelly or whatever. Is that what you're talking about or is that Dan:
Something that- Yeah, something like that. But gradually it'll reinforce the growth. My cartilage is growing at a much faster pace than a six month old baby would be. Yeah. And the pain is less. I Dean:
Was just going to say, what's the practical thing? Dan:
I would say if I compare to a week now, a seven day experience to seven days before I went for my first treatment, which was November of 19 to 2023, so it's two and a half years, basically. My pain is down somewhere between 80 and 90%. Dean:
Oh, that's awesome. And that's really- Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, pain is the problem. Dean:
Well, there you go. Dan:
Well, Dean:
That's Dan:
Just the knee, but the big Dean:
One Dan:
Has been the brain. I mean, by far the biggest impact because they do it on my knee for cartilage purposes. They do it on both my ankles because I have Achilles tendons, broken Achilles tendons in both of my ankles, and they're good. They're good. They're better. There's more flexibility, more push off. But the big one has been the stem cells to the brain, and I've increased my brain volume by 12% in three years. Dean:
12%. Dan:
12%. I mean, Dean:
That's great. And Dan:
That's about 30 years. That's equal to about 30 years of decline. Dean:
Wow. Dan:
So I would be ... Dean:
Basically, Dan:
I'm back where I was when I was 52. Dean:
Brain wise. Dan:
Being 82 right now. And I notice it. I notice it too. Dean:
You do? What do you notice? Like your brain feels more limber and alive? Dan:
No, the biggest thing is that the world makes sense. Dean:
Okay. Okay. That's Dan:
Interesting. The entire world now is suffering from Trump to arrangement syndrome. Dean:
Oh my goodness. Yeah. It's so ... Yeah, it really is. I think consciously- Dan:
He's taken on a historically unique role where there's nobody who's indifferent to him. Dean:
Right. Exactly. Dan:
There's no in between. Dean:
Yeah. I mean, it's really ... Yeah, this is ... It's funny because with my phone fasting and my zone of my 12:00 PM till 6:00 PM is really because I'm constraining the available time that I have to meet with people, that those times are filling up. So I really have very little time to pay attention to what's going on. Like just at a tippy top level, I know that we've bombed Iraq or Iran, sorry. But that's really ... I have not ... I've escaped really all of the other ... Just cursorily or peripherally, I've seen things about Dubai and the Emirates and stuff Dan:
Like that. Well, I think because it was a war, it's a war. So people say, "Well, he's causing a war." Actually, the war has been going on for 49 years, but it's only been from one side. So the Iranians, the Mulas, the whatever they are, declared war on the United States in 1979, but it was only Dean:
In Dan:
2026 that an American president noticed it. And he said, "Oh, you can't do that. Dean:
" Yeah. Wait a minute. Dan:
Wait a minute. Yeah. I knew I had an itch there. I didn't know what it was. So why don't we make this quick? We'll just destroy your entire leadership in the first half hour. Dean:
Okay. There we go. Reset. Dan:
There we go. There we go. You tried to get our attention. It took you 49 years, but you got our attention and here it is. Yeah. Dean:
Yeah. So I look at that for me as ... Dan:
Sure. Dean:
That's been a noticeable difference is just- Well, that's Dan:
Great. Dean:
... general awareness. Dan:
And I don't think you've deprived the world of anything by not paying attention to it. Dean:
No, because I think you said it when you gave up TV, you made the observation that there's a lot better things going on in your brain than our in that. And for me, I'm realizing that exact same thing. I've been really loading up a large language model in my brain of being exposed to so much stuff now. And yeah, so now it's really building the interface to tap into it. That's in the best way. Dan:
Yeah. And I think the thing that ... My sense is in the center of complexity, if you have a complex situation, at the center, if you get to the center of a complex situation, it's actually just this rather than that. It's something that's happening at the center of complexity that ... First of all, there's something new happening, and it's this new thing that's happening, and it creates a first impact, which once you've made the first impact, it creates 50 other impacts, and that's where the change is. And my sense is that it's, from my perspective, that is that you're either entrepreneurial or you're not entrepreneurial. In other words, as an individual, you're either creating new things or you're consuming new things. And right at the center, there's a creator and a consumer, and they need each other. Yeah, they Dean:
Do. Dan:
They need each other, and they're in the center of all the complexity in the world. There's a creator of something and a consumer of something, and the rest of it is just a byproduct. Dean:
Yeah. Those ... Last couple of days, I've been listening to a podcast interview with Cal Newport. He's on with Chris Williams. Williams or Williamson, it's funny because the thing that he's been talking about for 10 years is really gaining momentum now of being ... The awareness of the need for deep focus, deep work, is the big thing. It was an interesting thing just on my way home from the cafe this morning. He was talking about how the GPTs or the large language models now that people think about it slowly advancing towards this giant thing that can do everything, but his real ... He said, "What's really going to end up happening is there's going to be thousands of individual specialist things that do one thing really well." And I think that reminded me of who's, of the capabilities. I think you and I, and I love ... Every time we talk about offer prior, I think about you saying, "You could do anything, but you can't do one thing." And that's what I think people are thinking about AI as this thing that can do everything, and the reality of where it's going to end up heading is to where it can do one thing, and that you know that this is the thing to do that one thing. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
It's very ... I think that makes Dan:
Much more sense. Well, my sense ... Yeah, just to extend that thought a little bit, I think it can do everything except one day late. Dean:
Okay. Dan:
Because it depends upon human output in order Dean:
To- Yeah, for sure. Dan:
In other words, that it's the expert on everything that happened up until yesterday. And that will always be the case. That will always be the case, mainly because humans live in a totally subjective world and computers live in a totally objective world. In other words, they can only work with what's already been done. Yeah. Dean:
Yeah. That's really ... Dan:
I just wrote an article on how Strategic Coach with its thinking tools is always upstream from AI. Dean:
Say that again. How have ... Dan:
Well, things are either upstream or downstream. Dean:
Okay. Dan:
Okay. So things that are upstream are the cause and downstream it's the Dean:
Effect. Dan:
And my sense is that a strategic coach with its 250 thinking tools is always upstream from AI. Dean:
Yes. I got it. Yeah, that makes sense because- Dan:
If you're creating new stuff, you're upstream from someone noticing it. Yeah. And AI is the great noticer. Dean:
That's funny. The great noticer. Dan:
Yes, the greatest noticer we've ever created. Dean:
I mean, this is ... Yeah, I was just asking perplexity about the adoption of AI and the global estimate is somewhere between 15 and 20% of humans or whatever of people have even interacted with AI at all. But I've seen from as far as creating, using it for some ... Like proactively using it for some output is literally like 0.05% of people. Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 20% of humans haven't interacted with electricity yet. Dean:
Wow. Okay. So there's time. Yeah. Dan:
I love that. Perspective. It's true in the sense that most of Africa in the way that we interact with electricity is not doing it yet. I mean, they have some things that are electric, but I was reminded of this last night because something happened in the beaches last night and all the lights went out. There was like a sound. It was like a bang and then Dean:
We Dan:
Were in pitch darkness and then 10 seconds later, we had full electricity at Dean:
Our house, but Dan:
As I looked outside, nobody else had electricity. Dean:
Yeah. That sounds like a squirrel that got caught in a transformer. And the only reason I know that is because I've been where that has happened and that's exactly- Dan:
Oh yeah. Dean:
Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. It happened like two weeks ago. And that was the exact reason that a squirrel got into a transformer and millions of people lost electricity as a result of that famous- Dean:
Those crazy squirrels. Dan:
Hey, I wonder what this looks like. What is this? Oh. Dean:
It's pretty warm in here. Yeah. Let's see what's inside. Dan:
Yeah. I wonder, and the sentence wasn't completed. Dean:
That's funny. You're right. The whole ... I mean, I still remember the whole thing about ... And most of much of the world, I think you said this about China, but if in much of the world, two hours from the capital cities, people are shitting in holes.That's the reality of where- Dan:
They're not your competitor. Dean:
They're not your competitor. Oh, man. Dan:
Yeah. Well, I mean, you could see that the Iranians bought a hundred billion dollars worth of air defense equipment of one kind or another sensors and rockets. It was a hundred billion in the last three or four years they put in there, and none of it worked. I mean, there's been about 3000 sorties of ... A sorority is one plane going into a combat zone and doing something, firing a rocket or dropping a bomb. And I think there's been about 3000 of them so far in the last seven days in Iran, and that one American or Israeli plane has even been threatened. So if you're looking for a good security system at your home, do not buy Chinese. Dean:
Right. Exactly. Not the answer. Dan:
Not Dean:
The answer.
Yeah, yeah. That's so funny. The big thing for me this week, Dan, has been this growing realization of creating the better past as the daily task. I realized that ... I read something else. I've been really studying the ADHD stuff and executive function and really just kind of practicing my ... Setting up systems around this, because I realized that vitamin A doesn't make the decisions for you. What I've noticed is it allows me to stay on the task that I'm working on, but it doesn't help with the narrowing down and the decisions or prioritizing of what needs to be done. And I think that this reality of creating a better past is that that's the only actionable thing that you can do. It's kind of like when you said upstream and downstream, it kind of reminded me of that, that it lags, right?
Today is really the sum total of all of the previous outputs from the days past, and there's no actionable element of the future. I saw this somebody on ... It's funny because my algorithm now on TikTok and Instagram and all these, is I get all these ADD content and it's such a huge community. I mean, there's so many people that are affected by this, but it was ... I wish I could remember exactly what they said. It's like, but forget about your six month plan or your six month future you. There's nothing there for you. Do you know what I mean? It's really, it's only today that matters. Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. I think I shared this in our last podcast that one of the things ... This is day 95 for me of working on today because I want today to be a great tomorrow, a great yesterday, tomorrow. It's basically ... Tomorrow morning, when I think about what I did on Sunday, the 8th of March, it was a great day. I really had some great breakers, great activities, conversing with you and everything like that. And once I get outside the framework of what's possible today, there's not much there. Dean:
That's exactly right. Now, there are certain things that you can do to ... I look at for how many ... I don't know how many years, Dan, you and I have been having these conversations at, that it is locked in my world that we have created this better past of having arranged that we meet every Sunday morning like this and record the conversations, right? That is something, I think, looking forward to lock into place these structures that ensure that you're going to have that better past for today. And I'm just observing that, right? I think directionally, there's a place for setting up that infrastructure. It requires no executive function for you and I to find a time on our calendar, when our calendars are going to line up to record. And I find that it's an interesting difference between matching you and I, our calendar versus me and Joe with our doing our marketings.
It's like such a ... Dan:
I Dean:
Mean, do you find that with your ... Dan:
I mean, when I look at ... I mean, I'm really ... I'm a managed person. I have people who manage my schedule. And if I look ahead, this is early March, so I have March, April, and May going forward, and I bet 60% of what's going to happen over the next is in the calendar, so it's going to happen. It's going to happen. Dean:
Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. And generally speaking, my attitude towards it, I'll come to ... I have an appointment or something that's set up months ahead of time, and I Dean:
Come Dan:
To it and I said, "It would have been better if I did this tomorrow than today." But I said, "Nope, reinforce the discipline." I said, "You said you wanted whose, you gave them the freedom, you gave them the responsibility of setting up the schedule, just do what's in the schedule, don't try to change it, don't do anything like that, and then thank them for doing it. " And yeah, I think it may be 80%, not 60%. I bet it's 80% of everything over the next three months. And there'll be people who phoned Becca and they say, "Can I have 15 minutes with Dan and that? " And she'll talk to me and I said, "Let's do it in the next quarter, not right now." Yeah. Dean:
Yeah. Do you keep a rolling quarter going in your mind or do you do it on the calendar quarters and you're Dan:
Yeah. I mean, the calendar quarters are a function of the workshop quarters. In other words, generally my schedule is determined by interaction with other people and workshops are the biggest because that's where the cash flow comes from and everything else. But I never fool around with them. I can't think of a time when I said ... Dean:
Hey, let's move the workshop here. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah, let's get in touch with 45 people until we're Dean:
Moving Dan:
Something. Dean:
Let's check this a little bit. Dan:
Let's just do it the way it's scheduled. And that's three years ahead. That's actually three years ahead. Dean:
I love that. This has been a big shift for me. I mentioned to you this year has been kind of the first year where I'm completely calendared for the first six months of the year in terms of my breakthrough blueprints and the lead conversion and lead gen workshops are completely locked in and mapped out. And that's been a really different experience for me because typically I would have vaguely in my mind that I'm going to do one this time, but I was only ever letting people know about the next one, which may be six weeks away, six or eight weeks away. So it's kind of like a decision that people have that opportunity. If they can come, they can come. But now I'm seeing ... I've already got people who've booked for the June event. Now that they're on the calendar, it's kind of everything is there.
And that's what I'm really looking at is creating the rhythm of things. I'm realizing that's how ... I always say that life moves at the speed of reality and it's dependable that it's 60 minutes per hour and that it's seven days a week and it's three months and a quarter. So those things are coming and throwing them out there, putting the big rocks, as you would say, in place, everything else can work around those. I find that that's comforting. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
It is. I do crave and resist structure at the same time. Dan:
Well, I think that the trick is to bring it into alignment with what you find fascinating and motivating. I think that's the trick. And I think it's a real problem. I think at the basis of all unhappiness on the part of every individual, at the very bottom of unhappiness, they're having an argument with time. Dean:
I agree. Say more about that because I've been thinking something very similar. Dan:
Well, you're either in agreement with time or you're in disagree. I don't think there's a middle road. Yeah. Yeah. And it has to do with the full use of your attention. And I think that happiness is a function of being fully present. Dean:
It reminds me, Dan, do you ever hear the story of the ship that was coming into Harbor and it sees a light in the distance and it says, "We're about to collide, veer your course by five degrees or whatever." And the thing comes back, cannot veer course. Yes, you veer five degrees to the right and the captain signals back, "We are the USS, whatever. Veer your course by five degrees." And the signal comes back. We are a lighthouse. Veer your course five. Dan:
It's a disagreement with ... It's an argument over time. Dean:
That is right. Dan:
Yeah. The basis of reality is that things happen when they happen. Dean:
That is exactly right. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. But I just noticed it's like having an argument with gravity. Dean:
But I want to float. Yeah. Dan:
I'm a fly. Dean:
Exactly. But eventually you're going to hit the ground. Yeah. So I think that there's so many of these things that are all pointing in that right, in that same direction that using ... It's dependable. I think that that is the thing, right? It's dependable that there's going to be 24 out that we're going to have a thousand attention units in a day. That's the only ... And we can only spend this moment. Dan:
Yeah. But I think that consciousness where you're conscious with what's happening. And I said that ... I've been thinking about this over the last two weeks because anytime we go to Argentina, I am reminded of the fact that in certain countries, a schedule is just a suggestion. Dean:
With certain airlines too. Dan:
Oh yeah. And so we were there and that's why we take Becca with us because Becca is really great at rearranging things at short notice. And we had about, I would say, we were there for six days. I would say we had five scheduled changes. That would meet the average of a
Day there. And the thing is that if we had to handle that, it would have been a really bad week, but we have a who who just thrives on shifting things. And when you shift things, it's not just one thing you shift. There's a number of things that you shift, more than one, that any change ... It seems like a simple thing, but it's not because there's people to be called and limousine drivers are going to be and everything like that. And it's really interesting. So my attitude is that the fact that I have a structure and the fact that I have a schedule is a real gift, is a real gift. So I don't fool around with it. Even though, yes, things could be changed at the last moment and you could do this. I say, I think you're borrowing from the future by doing this and I'd rather invest in the future, deposit in the future.
And give yourself ... This is why I don't like the words should, would, or could. We should have done this, we would have done this, we could have done this. And I said, "Just treat it like experience, but then really make a change so that next time you don't, you're not faced with the same Dean:
Situation." Dan:
So I think the problem, those three words, it's funny that they should rhyme, would, could, and should, but they all mean I want to complain, but I'm not going to alter my future behavior. In other words, I want to say something, but I never found ever where somebody said, "I should have done this, " or they actually did the other thing. Dean:
It's interesting. I'm just thinking about those words. So let me think for a second here. I would have is kind of like a blame where I would have if, but there's something else is like ... Yeah, that wasn't my fault. I think there's an external blame shifting. Well, I could have done this is kind of rationalizing your thing and maybe should, I should have, is bringing ... There's a bit of emotion in that, right? Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. And what there is, I've just noticed when I do it for myself, that Dean:
There's no Dan:
Learning in it. It's not enough of a punishment in the moment that I'm going to change my behavior for the future. Dean:
Yeah. How do you think we could bring those into using those today that that's kind of ... Because if we're building a better future or a better path, then that means that we won't tomorrow look and say, "We would have done this, or we could have done this, or we should have done this. " How can we do that today? Dan:
It's really interesting. I had an experience exactly about this topic yesterday. We got back to Toronto, and Toronto hasn't done anything to improve its airports, I bet, in a dozen years. It's really getting grungy. I mean, they actually have three buildings. They have the big one, which is mostly Air Canada and United. Dean:
And Dan:
Then the second one is ... And number two, the number two terminal is just smaller air Canada planes. It's basically an air Canada terminal. And then number three is everything else that's not in their alliance. If you're not in the Canada ... The one, I think it's called One World or something like that, everything like that. So Lufthansa, the German airlines would be at terminal one because they're part of Air Canadas. Dean:
I got it. Dan:
Yeah. So you do see a few other airlines, but they're part of the One World Airlines, but three is just horrible. It's just one of the most horrible airline terminals in my experience. The design doesn't make any sense. You get off the plane and you're walking forever before you get to. Dean:
Oh, I know. I've noticed that. It's like you've parked in Hamilton and you got to walk the rest of the way. Right. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
I've noticed that about Ethro too. It's like that. Dan:
Yeah. I mean, but it's not even kept up. The carpets are frayed, there's scratches in the walls, the glass hasn't been cleaned and everything else. It's just not well taken care of. But what I noticed is that once you get your bags and you come out, there's a turn to the left that says connections and I says, wait a minute, if there was connections it would be four, you wouldn't be getting your bags. Dean:
Right. Dan:
Your bags would go to the next plane. So I said, "I bet this is a shortcut." And I noticed it last time, I said, "I bet this is a shortcut." And we came in, it was just a bunch of tables or desks with people at them and we said, "Can we get out to the lobby this way?" And they said, "Sure, just go with that. " So I was right, I was right on it. And it saved me about three or four minutes of walking just to take the shortcut. There's no indication that you can take a shortcut. I just had a sense last time I went through, because we try to avoid that terminal.
We've gone to Buena Series by Delta and Delta is terminal three and this last one was American, it's terminal three, and we've done United and United comes out of number one and you go to Houston and you catch the night. So I went through and I felt really good because I said, "You know what, next time we should explore this route because I think there's a shortcut here." And I got out and I got in Bab said, "Boy, that was neat. That was neat that you spotted that. " And I said, "Yeah." I said, "It ticked me off last time because they make you walk about 50 yards to the right before you can turn left and then you're simply retracing your route." And I said, "That's a waste of time and everything else." And I felt good about it, but I said to myself last time, next time, let's go through, let's see if it's really a shortcut. Dean:
That may be the interesting ... That may be the thing then is on reflection of the day, that looking at today that that could be making almost like you're a cartographer, mapping up the territory, wait a second, let's ... Yeah. I think that might Dan:
Be ... I mean, how do you fly to ... When you come to Toronto, do you do Air Canada though, right? Dean:
I do. Yeah. Yeah. So I go straight to- Dan:
Well, you just come in. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a lot of walking. There's a lot of walking that- Dean:
Oh yeah. I mean, sometimes very occasionally it'll be like right up at the ... Yeah, you're right there, but very rare. You walk Dan:
The plane and there's the escalator to bag it. Dean:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, but I think those three words ... The fact that there is a word in the English language doesn't mean that it's a good word. Exactly. But should, could, and would are no use whatsoever. Dean:
Yeah. They're only indication Dan:
Three words to not take responsibility for. In other words- Dean:
Well, that's what I mean. They're external Dan:
Blame shifting. Yeah. Yeah. These are blame shifting words. Yeah. Dean:
Yeah. Dan:
It's really interesting.
It's the only thing that I'll correct people with where they said, "Oh, I should have done this. " And I said, "Okay, why don't you do a fast filter? Why don't you do an experience transformer on that? What worked about it? What didn't work about it? Next time I do it, this is what I'm going to do. " And they said, "Yeah, yeah, I'll do that. " And I said, "No, you won't, because you haven't done it in five minutes, it's gone. If you don't make a firm decision that next time you're going to do something different, then you're going to repeat your behavior for this time." But it's really about those three words. Dean:
I wonder if that's a thing of that maybe looking ahead at them. I wonder if you can apply them in advance, looking ahead of today, what is it that where's a wood? Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. Well, I think what you're doing, you go, "I'm in experimental route, and this time I'm guessing that this is the solution, but if it's not, next time I'm going to make a different decision." That's totally reasonable because I think the future is all guessing and betting anyway. Yes. Yeah. Dean:
Certainty and uncertainty, right? Dan:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Dean:
Oh, that's great. I think that's ... Yeah, I think everything that ... Like that's one of my favorite things about our podcast is that there's no ... We're guessing and betting. There's certainty that there's very little required for ... We just know that this- Show Dan:
Up on time. Dean:
Yeah. That's all it is. That's exactly right. Pay attention, because that's really the thing. Pay attention during the week. I often find myself just making mental notes of this is ... I need to share this with Dan, but just paying attention and showing up on time. We've created the infrastructure, the scaffolding for it. Dan:
Yeah. It's kind of ... There was a book, one of the quarterly books, I think it was two years ago, it was called Geometry of Staying Cool and Calm. Dean:
Do you Dan:
Remember that one? Dean:
Yep. Dan:
And that basically there's three rules to life. If you follow them, generally, you're cooler and you're calmer about life. If you realize that everything is made up, everything that exists was made up. Some human made this up. Okay. That's number one. Number two, nobody's in charge of the making up. Dean:
Yep. Dan:
And number three is life's not fair. And what I realized, but there is such a thing as fairness, but it's the creative thing. Life is just stuff, but you can just rearrange stuff so that if you're working with someone else, it's fair. The results are fair with the other person. And that's why my whole belief that people complain about unfairness. And I said, "Well, make it fair. Make it fair." No, no, but they should do ... No, no, no. There's no they and there's no should. If you want something to be fair, make it fair. Dean:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's so ... I think fair ... Yeah, life's not fair, but it's predictable. I mean ... Dan:
Well, rules can be in charge, and I think the way humans have handled the unfairness of life, they put into place rules. There's no happiness until everybody is reasonably happy. There's nothing, but this war in Iran is a really interesting one because they only got the word, and this is the Israelis got the word. It wasn't the Americans. It was the Israelis got the word around midnight that they were having a big meeting in Tehran, the Grand Puba, whatever his name was that they were having a meeting and that these people were going to be at the meeting and it was the entire leadership of the country was going to be at a meeting and the Israelis said, "Oh, we got to switch our plans." And they switched all the plans and they killed them all in the first half hour. The entire leadership of the country was gone in the first half hour.
And well, that simplifies things. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Everybody you have to deal with is dead. They ask Trump, "Well, who's going to take over now?" And he says, "Yeah, that's a problem." The guy we had in mind, he's dead, and then there was another guy, we thought he might do it, and he's dead. They're all dead. Dean:
The position ... I don't know whether ... See, this is where AI comes in. I don't know whether this is AI hallucination or whether it's the reality that he said that the position's open and that see even ... We're doing so great. I'm even creating opportunity in other countries, creating job opportunities in other countries. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
And that's why we're so screwed, because it sounds so plausible, but it could easily be AI. Dan:
Well, they said, "Well, how do you think it's going? " And he said, "Well, we eliminated all their leadership in the first half hour, so we're way aheadred than I thought we were going to be. " But I mean, it's never happened in human history, what happened on that Saturday morning. I mean, you've never
Wiped out the complete leadership and that they were in two rooms, actually. They were in two rooms in the same compound, and they took them out and I said, "This is a big deal. You should mark this in your diary.This has never happened in the history of the world that you would just get rid of everybody who's got any say." And anyway, but it's an interesting thing, but you need time to ... I'm really in a really great period in my life right now. I've got enough time for everything important. Right now, I'm just feeling I have absolutely all the time I need to do everything that's important, and I've never had that feeling before. Dean:
Yeah. There is enough time. There is. It's just, I just look at that I have an abundance of time.That's the reality and so much. I just have to bend ... I've spent a lot of years being a shapeshifter, like building the future with ideas and stuff, but it's actually all the stuff actually happens in the scope of reality today. So getting better at Dan:
That. But just having that consciousness that you have all the time you need for what's really important actually changes the future. Dean:
Yeah. I think that's true. I look at that as like, yeah, it's good on the cusp of being 60 to figure that out is good. And I always love ... I mean, I always say to people, "Listen, you to me are always the Ghost of Christmas future of the possibilities, that having your good snapshot of what 22 years forward can be. " That's the great thing. So there's plenty of time. There's plenty of time. Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. And also, I mean, the great thing about unscripted podcasts, in both our cases, we would say with the right person, the really great things about them is that two hours ago, we had no idea how this conversation was going Dean:
To Dan:
Go, and I think that's the great thing, and that's what I'm coming to. I'll send you the article I wrote on coach being upstream from AI and- I like that. But yeah, I'm sending out to my team this next week because Hamish McDonald, my cartoonist, he says, "Oh, this is a great, great article. Everybody in the company should know this. So I'm going to send it out this week and then I'm going to get feedback. Should we send it out to all the client base to do it? " But it's just something about there's this freakout that's going on with AI and part of it is just the marketing pitch on it. I mean, there's some major bets that are being made that this is a really big thing and there's huge amounts of money that are at play here with AI and that it's a fundamental game changer and if it's only half a game changer, a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money. Dean:
Yeah. No, I think Cal Newport is right on track with this, that it's going to have to be ... I think it's going to get down to that it can practically do ... I wrote an email the other day called Six Pack Abs as a Service. That's really where we're headed. That's the best positioning to be in. Dan:
Yeah. It's really, really interesting that there's something that I noticed when it relates to medicine, especially medicine, the area that Babs and I have been exploring for almost 40 years now. I can take it back to 1986, so it's Dean:
40 Dan:
Years, and they said, "Well, and if it's possible for some people, it doesn't mean it's possible for everybody." Because unless you're investing in this and you're actually looking for it, it's not Not going to be available to people who are not looking for it. Dean:
Yeah. That's very true. But it's there. When you look back, all the opportunities have been Dan:
There. Yeah. It's funny, I go to sort of normal medical facilities and people will say, "Well, you can do that because you have the money. What about people who don't have the money?" I said, "Can't do it for the people who don't have the money, unless the people with the money make it possible." So I said, "The greatest breakthroughs in health that come from technology will happen in the United States. And the reason is there are a lot of people with money who are willing to just invest on the off chance that this will work." And I said, "You don't have that around the world." Dean:
Yeah. Yeah. That's what Elon Musk was basically saying on his podcast with Peter Diamandis was the level of medical care available globally is what's going to be a major game changer. And that's because of basically saying the best surgeons in the future are going to be robotic. And so you think about that as ... Dan:
And they're going to cost. Dean:
Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. I mean, simple thing like an MRI, like last Monday, so six days ago, I went to an x-ray clinic in Buenos Aires and the results of the x-ray didn't satisfy my doctor. And she said, "I didn't quite get what I wanted there. They took it at a wrong angle and I'm not going to send you back there. So is it okay with you that we get an MRI on your knee?" And I said, "Sure." And I had it the next morning. In Toronto, that would be six months to get an MRI. Dean:
Yeah. Wild, right? Next thing you know, you'll have it at home, your home MRI system. I think that's the thing. All right. All Dan:
Right. Dean:
Well, we've said it all. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
I think we can safely say tomorrow that we created a great yesterday. Dan:
I think that's right. Dean:
Yeah. Dan:
And more than that, you can't demand. Dean:
That's true. Dan:
Okay. Dean:
All right, Dan. I'll talk to you next time. I'll Dan:
Talk to you. I'll be in Chicago next week, so I'll talk to you from there. Dean:
Perfect. Thanks. Bye. Dan:
No time change for you. Dean:
Perfect. Dan:
Okay. Bye. Okay, Dean:
Thanks. Bye.
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Dean’s new concept “REAL-ationships”: as AI mimicry becomes undetectable, the value of trust built with a real person you know is only going to increase.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean Jackson:
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan. Dan Sullivan:
Mr. Jackson. Welcome to Cloudlandia Dan Sullivan:
Yes. Welcome to Cloudlandia. Dean Jackson:
So you know what's funny? Dan Sullivan:
Is it getting congested? Dean Jackson:
Oh, I realized, I think I've noticed that today or this week, I reached a level of AI fatigue that I'm noticing is a different sensation in that- Dan Sullivan:
It's like the 18 mile mark of the marathon. Dean Jackson:
I think that's true. I'll tell you what happened for me is that when I watch Reels or Instagram or Facebook, any of the things, what I'm noticing is the majority of the things that I'm seeing now are AI. And it's getting to where it's not as obvious that it's AI, but it is AI and you can tell that it's AI and it kind of is getting to where it's bothersome. And I realize that this is like we're seeing things, especially when they're trying to make things, they're using it now to create videos that tug on your heartstrings in a way like this family adopted this lion mother who laid her ... They fed the lion and now the lion brings back her cubs to meet the homeowners. And it's just so ridiculous. And everybody is ... Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And this is in Monica Beach, right? Yeah, exactly. It's near the Ferris wheel on Monica. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
Santa Monica here. Right. Exactly. Santa Dan Sullivan:
Monica. Santa Monica. Yeah. Dean Jackson:
It's
Just so ... So I realize now, and the fact is that most people don't realize it. I mean, there's so much engagement and you start to see now how just all of these situations where people are being confronted or having arguments or what looks like ... This is where it becomes troublesome is the propaganda ones where they're showing confrontations or arguments between two people. Angry Karen does this or confronts this person or all these things where it's like ... I don't know. It's like ... I always say how Jerry Spence talked about that our minds are putting out their psychic tentacles, testing everything for truth, and it can detect the thin clank of the counterfeit. And I think that that's true, but I worry that many people's counterfeit detectors are not as tuned in as ours are. And I could see that. Dan Sullivan:
Well, there's an old phrase that nobody was ever seduced to wasn't looking for sex. Dean Jackson:
That's true. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
In other words, you've got to be looking for ... For them to have any impact, you have to be looking for ... I mean, to a certain extent, you're only subject to propaganda if you're looking to be propagandized. I Dean Jackson:
Don't know. Dan Sullivan:
It's kind of funny. I had a different AI experience this week, and I think mine is more a source of humor than yours is. Tell me. And that is that the Secretary General of the UN says now that the UN has to be in control of the development and the expansion and the use of AI to guarantee that there needs to be a centralized bureaucratic control AI, otherwise it will be misused. It will be misused. And I said, "If the right team of comedians will just sort of get on this UN thing of trying to control the AI, I think there's ... At least in the short term, there's some real humor here. You can get some real Dean Jackson:
Humor Dan Sullivan:
Of the UN as a thought and AI as a thought." I think if you put those two together, there's immediate jokes that you can come up with. They want three billion. Now, which country has three billion to get to the UN? Dean Jackson:
I know one. Dan Sullivan:
Anyway, because they want to distribute it, distribute, which requires bureaucrats to third world nations, so to make sure that they can bring themselves up to speed on AI. So I think this has got some comic possibilities. Dean Jackson:
Oh, man. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Where's Monty Python when we need them? Dean Jackson:
Exactly. They've been canceled. They were canceled. That's what happens. We cancel everybody who's got common sense. I think I mentioned that I saw- Dan Sullivan:
Can I ask you a question? Are you surprised that this is happening? Dean Jackson:
I'm not surprised. I mean, if you look at it that we're not even two and a half years into it right now, and when you see the stuff that is escalating, like now the Claude bots are this becoming agentic AI, that's the new buzzword, that it acts on its own and can do ... It's like becomes an army of who's. It's like if you just track the trajectory of where this actually goes, like if you're really ... If we're at a point right now where video and audio is already there, but if you get to a point where video is indistinguishable, like undetectable difference, that's coming. We're moments away from that. And I have a friend who was just saying she had a call from a bot, like an AI thing that's calling realtors and the ... Shortly into the conversation asked ... Caleb was the guy who was talking.
She's like, "Caleb, are you a bot?" And then he admitted that he was a bot and then she kept him on the phone for 20 minutes because they hadn't safeguarded him. So she's getting all the, what he's trained to do, like how many and like 30% of the people don't clue in that he's a bot. And that's the truth. His mission was to call these agents, to have the conversation with them just to get the interest to book an appointment with the real person, right? So these are appointment setting bots. And he said that 30% of the people that they talk to don't clue in that it's an AI and they happily set an appointment. And then on the appointment, the human then is pitching this service of, "You didn't know it was a bot, so this is like you want to use this for your business." And I thought, wow, it's very ... Yeah, it's really, it's something where we are.
So I really don't know. And you and I, you and I are kind of once removed. Dan Sullivan:
It's interesting. I put together an article and I actually sent it to Jeff Madoff and I said 10 AI issues that are going to become very quickly political and how each of the parties, the Democratic Party and the Dean Jackson:
Republican Dan Sullivan:
Party would respond to it. And once the interesting thing is that with all 10, they would respond differently. So it's going to be ... And they'll ... So they're going to have a different point of view. But I think that the moment that it becomes political, then it'll be like any other technology. It'll be like industrialization, Dean Jackson:
It'll Dan Sullivan:
Be like television, it'll be like radio. The moment it gets fully ... The political sector of society immediately engages with it, then you'll see that it'll become even more complicated and confusing and complex than it is right now because each of the parties is going to want to utilize AI for its own electoral reasons and to get information out. The one factor though is that our brain still can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time Dean Jackson:
And Dan Sullivan:
I don't think AI is going to make the least bit of difference of making humans be able to engage with more than one thing at a time. Dean Jackson:
Oh yeah, yeah. No, that's the thing. I said that. I was having a conversation- Dan Sullivan:
No, the speed of reality. I mean, you talk about the speed Dean Jackson:
Of Dan Sullivan:
Reality and our attention operates at the speed of reality. Dean Jackson:
It does. And there's a limited ... There's a finite amount of it. Eben and I realized that there are ... You have essentially a thousand waking minutes in a day. We were talking about the 100 Jacksonian units, the 10 minute units, right? So if you take that, that there is 1,000 attention units available per person, per day, that's the limit of it. And when you put that in the context of all of the content that's being created, we did the math on a global finite amount of attention units. If you take eight billion times a thousand is whatever, 800 trillion attention minutes available per day, right? And you're absolutely right. It's like such a ... Dan Sullivan:
Very, very small amount of attention. I mean, and then a lot of that attention is already spoken for ... Yeah, we got Dean Jackson:
Things to Dan Sullivan:
Do every day and our attention goes up. Dean Jackson:
That's exactly right. So that's what they ... They estimate that we have about 450 of those attention units are currently spent on screen time for most people, six, six hours or six and a half hours or something. So 450 minutes of attention available. Dan Sullivan:
When I went off my television, watching television, I calculated and I kind of took a month of viewing and just sort of established that basically I watched television about 800 hours, 800 hours a year. Dean Jackson:
A month? A year. Dan Sullivan:
Oh yeah. Yeah. And I got that back. I got 800 hours back, which in eight hour days is a hundred ... It's basically a hundred days, a year of attention. And boy, that's made a huge difference. I mean, it made a huge difference. My productivity shot through the roof, I started ... Yeah, I mean, and easiest eight years of my life. It'll be eight years in July, and boy, it's been so great not to have television as part of my life. Dean Jackson:
I mean, that's ... Yeah, I think that's wild. And then you see that you've created that, you've created other opportunities for that time. Dan Sullivan:
About half of it's gone into reading, come back. Usually it's evening time or it's weekend time when I did this. But the thing is, you're noticing something, but how do you know ... I mean, how would you know based on what bothered you this week? You used the word bothers, so I'll use it back to you. It bothered you. How would you know that this is a problem? I mean, what would have to happen out in the world for this to be a problem? We know that everybody thinks that AI is going to solve their capturing attention. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I think it's true. Challenge. Dan Sullivan:
But it seems to me that everybody's going to be very frustrated because it sounds to me like the competition has gotten a lot more fierce. Dean Jackson:
For attention, what you're competing against is you're competing ... I do watch television, but never ... It's always like select ... I watch streaming. I can't remember the last time I ever turned on a terrestrial cable television where there's a schedule and you've got to watch what's on, right? Aside from football or sports or whatever, where it's live and happening, that everything I watch is streaming. So I watch a lot of ... I watched YouTube and Netflix and I like watching series things like we just watched The Beast in Me was a show, a streaming series that was on, and it was really well done, eight episodes, but I think that that was real people doing real acting. There was something about that. I don't know that it would be as engaging by AI, but I see the things where in the marketing world, what we're seeing now is this proliferation of people showing you how to create your video clone and your audio clone and how to produce all of this content.
It's all in the name of creating more content with less effort, not better content.
It's an interesting ... So I look and everybody's buying into that, right? Like you've got kind of two things. There's always the people that get ahead of a curve, like they see a wave coming and they go up and they're just like three steps ahead of everybody, and then they show people the way, like, here's how you do this, because everybody is 100% bought into that they need to know how to do this. And then I think that the next level will be that people will create something to be who for things, so that you don't have to learn. I've already made the decision, I'm not going to spend a minute learning how to do any of this. It's like I look at it that it's really ... To me, the most important thing for me as an entrepreneur is- You're adapting Dan Sullivan:
My role. Dean Jackson:
I am. Absolutely. Is that- Dan Sullivan:
Always have a smart human between you and the technology. Dean Jackson:
That's exactly right. Yes, that's exactly right. It's more important. Dan Sullivan:
There are people who are fully engaged with this and you don't have to motivate them to be that way. You just have to sort of tag on. Since you got to adopt the A&W root beer approach to this, do you know how A&W? No. Dean Jackson:
A&W Dan Sullivan:
Is a very Dean Jackson:
Famous Dan Sullivan:
Root beer. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I know Dan Sullivan:
About A&D. 100 years. They've never had a delivery system. They've never had a delivery system of their own. Well, what they do is they find a local Coke or Pepsi
Distributor and they have trucks going and they say ... And they're almost never full. They're almost never full. And they're frequent. They're every day, they're going every day. So they just said, Kevin, could you also drop off 10 cases of A&W on your route to these stores and they have them all picked up and they do. And my sense, that is done more than actually having your own delivery system. I think there's all sorts of deals that delivery services have that they'll take this along with them and everything else. But I think you don't want to spend much attention on it, you don't want to spend much effort on it, you don't want to spend much time or cost on it, and so you'll work out. Here's the thing that I've noticed that Wall Street's really worried about AI. They don't see any of the big companies getting a return on the billions that they're investing.
They're just not seeing the return coming back from all the spending on artificial intelligence. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, I wonder because ... So that's my next thought of this, that right now it's perplexity and ChatGPT and Claude and whatever, those, they're all sort of pure in a way that you're bypassing the monetary system of if you go to Google, what you're getting are paid results, right? That you're looking at ads for these things. And as of yet, chat, GPT and perplexity I've seen has been experimenting with paid sponsored results as well, where when you ask a question and it gives you the thing, and then it asks three or four possible follow-up questions that you can go deeper with something, that I've seen situations where one of those results says sponsored, where it's a, somebody has paid to get their suggested next step placed in the stream of this perplexity conversation.
And so that is going to have to happen. There's a whole industry right now around, just like SEO happened where people ... If you look at the cat and mouse game, the back and forth over the history of search engines, that when the search engines were figuring out how to index the internet or to get it all and what to display when people search things, there's been a constant evolution of marketers trying to game the system. So when Google started out, it was using keywords and metatags to tell the bot what this website is about so that when somebody searched that thing, they would index it, right? They would be scraping all of the data and surmising that this used this keyword on the page so many times. So there was a thing where people would stuff your page with keywords and just use white text so it was invisible, but the page had all of these words in it that would be really for the audience of the search engine so that you could game the system and somebody would ... You would come up as number one and Google figured that out and then they penalize it and they said, okay, no, we're going with now linking, whatever it will look at, do other people link to your site.
So that created the whole engine of a economy around creating backlinks and you would pay marketing companies to get back links so that you would be number one. And then they caught onto that and they came out with something else that was an algorithm that ... So it's always been this back and forth, and we haven't yet gotten to the point- Dan Sullivan:
Where Dean Jackson:
Anybody's trying to game Dan Sullivan:
That. I see a lot of activity going. I just don't see a lot of profitability going on. Dean Jackson:
Right. Yeah. I mean, it's certainly that people are using it, but the- Yeah. No, Dan Sullivan:
It's very interesting at the Free Zone Summit before last ... I just asked a general question of the audience, there's 80 Free Zone members there and I said," How many of you are using AI and are happily doing it? "As far as I could tell, every hand went up. And I said," And how many of you can already see an economic benefit? "In other words, it's saving time, it's saving money, it's all the hands went up. I said," How many of you think that your benefit that you're getting from AI is measurable somewhere and none of the hands went up? Dean Jackson:
"Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
I think there's an enormous amount of really great economic activity going on an individual basis. You would be an example. I would be an example, but I can't see how it would ever be measured by the people who measure economic statistics. Dean Jackson:
Right. That's it. You're absolutely right. Dan Sullivan:
So my sense is that this is not performing like previous, it's not performing like previous technologies. And there's a very famous thinker by the name of FA Hayek, H-A-Y-E-K, Nobel Prize winner, economist. And he says, what makes the world go around are unaccountable billions of little activities that are being done by individuals that cannot be observed or measured from on high and everything else. And I think that what's notable about AI is how empowering it is of individuals whose use of it can't be measured. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. It's very ... Yeah, I think there's a lot of activity. It's certainly getting a lot of- Dan Sullivan:
Well, trillions. Yeah. I mean, it's trillions. It's just that what people say it's going to do or what direction it's going to be. I said," Well, you'd have to be able to measure it to even make a statement like that, and I don't think you can measure it. "I think we've lost the ability to measure economic activity with AI. I think AI defies measurement. Well, it defies observation because I can't say what's going on inside your brain, Dean, you can tell me afterwards, but I don't know when it's happening. I don't know what's going on in your brain, and I think that that activity inside your brain is an economic activity in a lot of respects. Not everything you do has an economic direct academic, but I think a lot of it does, but I don't think it's observable. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. We have ... I've shared with you before, even when we were doing the joy of procrastination, and I think about this At least once a week, I think about that article in the New York Times about the tyranny of convenience that we're ratcheting forward in our never ending pursuit of making things easier. And I noticed the things on myself, I noticed now that my behavior used to be that if I saw a book or a product or anything that I heard about, I would go to Amazon because only Amazon had one click ordering that I knew I could save the hassle of putting in my credit card to buy something. So I would see a product go to Amazon and buy it there. But now with Apple Pay, they've made it super easy that any website, like now the whole economic engine of seeing something, the TikTok shop or on Facebook or Instagram, you see these ads for a product and you want it and you click and it's automatically, it's just one click and it arrives at your door.
And that you don't have to put in your credit card, do any of that stuff. I've noticed that if any website, if I have to enter in anything, I'm less likely to
Buy it because I've already now ratcheted in the level of convenience that is I only push one button. It's like they've eliminated the friction between me getting what I want. And in many cases here where I am, and I imagine for you too, that you can often have, if I order it this morning, it can be here this afternoon, like same day logistics of that physical movement of goods. But there's a limit to that. And I always look at these, I always look at as a marketer, what are the measurable, what we've been talking about there, like to what end are we creating all of this content? Where is the impact of this going to be measured? And if I look at it in the before unit of a business, it's either going to, or is it going to end up in generating a lead, turning an invisible prospect into a visible prospect, getting more reach like a person to take an action?
Is it going to distribute something that gets somebody to take an action? I just look at it as like, where is it all going? To what end are you deploying this? Because those things aren't changing. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. But in the scheme of things, every day things are going to be bought and they're going to be sold. And my sense is it's going on today for reasons that are not measurable. I would say it's not measurable. And that's the only thing I'm getting is that the significance of AI is that far from it being able to see everything, I think it's actually seen less and less. I think it's sometimes AI is accurate about something that happened yesterday, but I don't think it has any feel for tomorrow. Dean Jackson:
Right. I agree with you. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Because I think human aspiration creates tomorrow. I don't think trends in the marketplace necessarily great, great, great tomorrow. So it's just an interesting thing. And my sense is that activity is not results. I think there's an enormous- Dean Jackson:
Exactly. Dan Sullivan:
There's an enormous amount of activity, but I don't really, really see the results. I talked to Steve Krine about this because he was successful in the. Com age at the end of the night. He got out three months before everything did well, did well and everything else. He said this has a lot of the same feel. It has Dean Jackson:
A lot of same feel. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I look at this. We are in internet or 1998 right now, right? Just on the cusp, I would call what we're seeing is an AI boom, right? We're in like the dot com boom that everybody's race to the LLMs. But the outputs, like if you really look at it, there's only ever been four core things. It's either it's words, text, it's photos, it's audio, and it's video. That's really the modality, right? And so it's only to the degree that it's facilitating, making it easy. Like when you look at the, I look at these cascading asyntotic curves that the digitization followed, like the first thing, the easiest thing to digitize and compress and distribute is text. And that's how we started out with email and we started with PDFs and you could create a document that you could attach to a file and send it through email.
And then it went to photos, which was the next easiest thing to digitize and create, and then to audio where the MP3 became a viable thing and compressed enough that we could stream it and then video where ... And it was all driven by the bandwidth to be able to push it through the pipes in a way that we could without interruption.
Like in the very beginning of the internet, pictures that were high resolution had to buffer and it took a long time for something to download and the same thing with audio and video. But then by 2006, YouTube made it possible to now host and stream video seamlessly. And I think that once those things reached the top of the asyntonic curve of the capability, now everybody has the capability to create and distribute without friction and access to text, photos, audio, and video. And now we're getting to the point where if you look at AI, generative AI, has reached a point where it can create text at scale with no detectable difference between a human and maybe even better than humans in terms of technical writing or any of that. And the same with photos and audio. And the last thing now is the video. We're almost at the ... It's getting better and better and better, but we're very soon going to reach this, the tippy top of the asyntic curve and it's only going to be incremental improvement in our ability to, or the tools, ability to do it.
So we're going to reach this plateau where now it becomes the ... Everybody's going to have the capability, but it's going to come down Dan Sullivan:
To- Can I hold you right there? Can I hold you? Not everybody will have the capability because capability is a human thing, not a tool description. Dean Jackson:
Well, I don't ... So here, I'll tell you where I'm at. Dan Sullivan:
In other words, if I go five miles from you, your house at the center, the capability to do what you're doing is totally unequal. So if somebody doesn't have the internal disposition to do it, they don't have the capability. Dean Jackson:
Well, that's where I was going, Dan, that there's a distinction between capability and ability. So if I give you a grand piano, and there's a grand piano in every home, you have the capability to create amazing music, but if Elton John or Billy Joel comes and sits down at your piano, it's going to be a very different outcome using the same tool that you have access to, that you don't have the ability to use that tool to create the same thing. I look at those, if you think of them as tools, if you look at the first wave where every single person has the capability to create digital text documents that can be distributed for free to everybody in the world that has an internet connection, same thing with audio, pictures and video. You have the technical capability to do it, but the qualitative ability has now where the advantage comes.
That's where the future of it is, right? Dan Sullivan:
But that's always been the case. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying is that it's always been the case. So now everybody gets all excited about this exponential curve of capability that now it's going to get to the thing where now the differentiator is going to be that the ability is what's going to matter more than the capability. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. And I think different times favor different abilities, Dean Jackson:
Abilities, Dan Sullivan:
Abilities, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's really reason, but so what is it in this particular situation that saves it from being basically a lot of meaningless activity? Dean Jackson:
That's it. To what end? That's where I say is now we got to get to the point of, to what end is this going to solve a problem or improve somebody's life in as much as they would be willing to exchange money for that good or service. That's the way the economy works, right? There still has to be ... That's why capitalism works. It's a free exchange of goods and services for money. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Where the profitability keeps increasing, the amount of profitability keeps increasing. I mean, it's all very interesting me just that the ... I still have only used AI for one thing and I can't see in the future where I'll be using AI for anything except one thing. Other members of my team and the strategic coach are using AI for different reasons. And at a certain point, it might be this year, it might be next year, we're going to have to start having some structure to, where are you already using it that excites you to get a good feeling about it and do you see yourself using it to make your work better? Can you see it? In other words, work faster, work better, work, better result. And I think it's a leisurely conversation. I'm waiting two or three years before everybody's using it for something, so that way they've crossed the threshold, and then I'd say ... But I'd use some coach tools to sort of say, "What don't you like doing?
What's the activities you don't really like? " And can you talk to somebody? Is there a tool already exists, an AI tool that can do that? How much time could you save and what would you do with the saved up time? I get them in touch with what they really love doing first, and then use what they don't like doing as an obstacle. If I could get rid of what I don't like Dean Jackson:
Doing-
Yeah, I look at that. So in the VCR formula, the progression on capability is that the core is the capability, the next is capacity, so that capability has a sort of max capacity for what you can do with it, and then ability, and then cash as the ... Ultimately, all of this combined is going to provide cash, but I look at what you were just describing is that the capability, the tool, is going to increase people's capacity as individuals that they can, as an individual, do more than what they could. I remember when I first started recording things and wanting to transcribe them, like when I wrote the Stop Your Divorce book with Homer McDonald, back in 1998, I remember that the going rate for transcribing audio was a dollar a minute of audio. So if I had a one hour recording, a real human would listen to that and transcribe it for $60.
It was a dollar a minute for the recording of the things. And that has now that everybody has the capability to get audio transcribed for free.
That's one of the tools that AI can do is transcribe something. So there's a whole generation of a whole genre of people almost be like buggy whip manufacturers or stuff as we were transitioning to cars, the need for buggy whips was way down and the same with blacksmithery became less and less. So we're seeing a real shift of that. And I think that that's if we follow that the cascading digitization pattern of text, video, or text, photo, audio, video, that once those four things are, everybody has now the ability to turn words into full cinematic video and music. It's happening now with music for sure.
You're seeing now that people are prompting things to create music. Richard Miller, who I think you know, Richard was just here and he had a song, had written a song, just had a chord progression and the melody of how this would go and he played into his iPhone with just his acoustic guitar, played that into voice memo on his iPhone, and then he uploaded it to, there's a music AI, Sono, Suno, I think, uploaded it to this and it created this amazing song following exactly his chord progressions and it wrote lyrics based on the prompts, ideas that he had and it was really like well done. And I think that we're already at the point where people can't tell whether an artist is an AI artist or a human artist in the music world. So it's just the audio portion of it. And I think that we're getting to the point where probably it's 60 or 70% undetectable.
I'm already seeing now videos of people being shown a series of videos and they have to say, "Is this real or is it AI?" And 70 plus percent of the time they're fooled, we'll call it, right? Yeah. They can't tell whether this is real or not. And I think that if you factor in any amount- Yeah, but Dan Sullivan:
Why does that matter? Well, I'm trying to find why that matters. Dean Jackson:
I think that because it's like there's- Dan Sullivan:
Because the competition for attention is still exactly the same. Dean Jackson:
Absolutely. And that's where now it's going to be the ability is going to be the distinguisher, that it's what you prompt the AI to create. It's still going to be the idea that the better ideas are going to be the win in this, knowing what's capable. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, but it's been that way when there was no technology. There was somebody who could sing better than anyone else. Dean Jackson:
That's exactly- Yeah, that's why I think- Dan Sullivan:
So it doesn't seem to me that things have really shifted. It's always been inequality. There's always been inequality. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
There's great and there's mediocre and my sense is that it doesn't seem to me that ... I mean, first of all, what you're describing is real skill, that somebody who can put all these different pieces together and produce a great result, I think there's real skill there and everything like that. I just don't see that from the standpoint of individual human attention, I just don't see how it's going to change things, that's all the things that I'm saying. If anything, the competition for human attention is getting greater. Oh, Dean Jackson:
Absolutely. And I think that's why the- But I don't think it's going to be solved through better. Dan Sullivan:
I don't think it's going to be solved through technology. Dean Jackson:
No. Dan Sullivan:
I mean, here we are. We've gone through, we're 36 years, the company, and we advertise. I mean, we use social media, we do everything, but 85% of all registrations last year, there were 800 registrations, 85% of them were a personal referral. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I think that that is ... Dan Sullivan:
And what Dean Jackson:
That Dan Sullivan:
Tells me is that people check with an actual human being that they know who has experience, is this a good thing? And they say, "Yeah, I highly recommend it. " Well, no technology is involved in that whatsoever. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I wrote in my journal just yesterday, this word of that what we're going to move towards is, I'm calling it relationships, R-E-A-L, patientships. Dan Sullivan:
I think that's a great idea. Dean Jackson:
Yes, absolutely. I think that's where we're headed that we would, because we can't ... That's where I'm kind of projecting the trajectory of that because we're not going to be able to trust that this is a real person, that we're going to lean on waiting even more, the value of somebody that we have a real relationship with, a relationship. And so rather than the recommendation engine of asking, I'd much prefer your recommendation than even Charlotte's recommendation. And that's because- Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
That's high praise. Dean Jackson:
Well, because we have a relationship, you know? Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Well, it's a different context. It's a very different context. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm feeling too, that there's an Angus Fletcher who wrote Primal Intelligence, he's heading in this direction too, that where you have the things can be moved because economics requires that things can move from here to there, whether it's a tangible or an intangible, something has to move from here to there. And it seems to me that technology is really good at that. I think that technology ... For example, to take it electric vehicles, the result on electric vehicles are very disappointing economically. Everybody's losing all the companies except ... It's hard to see with Tesla because they have companies that are mixed in with each other sort of thing, but none of the EV companies are making money. The Chinese EV companies aren't making money, but in China, you don't have to make money to produce product and everything like that.
And the reason is they're running into traffic congestion and EVs don't solve traffic congestion. An EV stuck in traffic congestion isn't any better than a gasoline car. Dean Jackson:
Right. Exactly. Yes. Dan Sullivan:
So there's other factors. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
So the thing that I see is you can technologize yourself to a standstill, and I think that's what you're saying here, that you get. And what becomes important, and that is getting out of the car and having an interesting discussion with the other person who's also stuck in traffic. That's actually a real relationship that the real ... I think you've got a great idea there. I think you should copyright it today. Dean Jackson:
Yes. Yeah. Well, that's the thing, right? They write a email about it this week. It's one of my five ideas for my week Dan Sullivan:
To- I think that's really worth developing because that seems to me to be what's happening is people are ... That these technological mimicry is not emotionally satisfying. Dean Jackson:
Yes. That's a good one. It's true. Dan Sullivan:
No, you can add that to your ... You can add that to your release. Yeah. So technological mimicry is not emotionally satisfying. Yes. Except the first time you do it, except the first time you do it, then the second time it's not Dean Jackson:
So nourishing. Because the novelty of it scratches that, right? Yeah. It's like magic then, and that's something. But I think what's going to be a problem is to see these comments on the things of all the people really just taking it at face value, that it's there, it's then that you realize IQ is a quotient and the average is 100. And I think that's going to be a problem, I think. Because there's much more nuanced stuff in- Dan Sullivan:
I don't know if the problem just emerged us here though. Dean Jackson:
No, no, no. That's always been the problem. That's exactly right. Yeah, yeah. That's not new. That's not new. Dan Sullivan:
I was thinking of that, and you can really measure backwards, but if you go back to when it was a hundred years since the First World War started off, and the first battle that the British were in, in the First World War, this is 1914, the battle of the Som, S-O-M-M-E, I Dean Jackson:
Think, Dan Sullivan:
In France,
Both deaths and casualties, they lost 60,000 men in an afternoon, 60,000. And the thing about that was they weren't drafting people, these were volunteers, and they were up into the hundreds of thousands of deaths and handicaps before they had to start conscription. So people were just running off to ... And the word was priority. They had censorship, so the newspapers couldn't report on these, they couldn't report on these casualties, the number of dead and injured people, they couldn't record on them. But word of mouth was getting back that this was a meat grinder that they were sending people into and still they were going off. And I said, I think that's a good measurement of IQ in 1914. Dean Jackson:
Right, right. Yeah. I think you're right. And you see it all the time, Dan, in the way, I mean the recruiting, the Army, Navy, Air Force, the military recruiting things are unfair in many ways. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
In what respect? Dean Jackson:
Well, in that there was a thing where they had ... Somebody came up with the words citizen soldier. And they had these ... There was a period where they were spending millions of dollars to have real like kid rock and other rock bands create songs. They created a song called Citizen Soldier, which was like getting to the people that were most likely to be emotionally compelled to want to join the military. Dan Sullivan:
Well, it's called marketing. Dean Jackson:
Yeah, absolutely. Dan Sullivan:
It's not marketing. Dean Jackson:
Absolutely. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Well, I mean, first of all, I think the US military is actually a pretty good deal. I think the benefits that come along with it, I mean, very few American soldiers get killed. I mean, you have Dean Jackson:
Very Dan Sullivan:
Few. As a matter of fact, the Russian- Dean Jackson:
Now especially. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah, the Russians in the Ukraine war, four years old, right now, four years old, have had more soldiers killed than all Americans killed in all American wars in the last 250 years. Wild, right? Yeah. Yeah. And everything else. So actually the military is a good deal. For example, not well known, but if you're an illegal immigrant in the United States, male probably, and you go to a recruitment section and you sign up, they don't ask ... You want to tell them that you're an illegal immigrant. They won't turn you in and you don't meet the requirements and you make it into the military. Three years later, you're a US citizen. Dean Jackson:
I see, that's underpublicized. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. I think that's a good deal. Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Earn your way in. Dan Sullivan:
I think an American citizenship and passport is one of the most valuable Dean Jackson:
Pieces Dan Sullivan:
Of intellectual Dean Jackson:
Property Dan Sullivan:
In the world. Dean Jackson:
Yes, still. Absolutely. Dan Sullivan:
Anyway, anyway, I think you should really develop this idea of real relationship. I think it's a great idea. Dean Jackson:
I do too. I think it's just the way things are headed for sure. The power. Totally agree. The importance of it. Yeah. Dan Sullivan:
Yeah. Totally agree. All right. Dean Jackson:
All right, Dan. I will be here. I'll see you back here. A good Dan Sullivan:
Week after. Yeah. Okay. Dean Jackson:
Okay. Bye.
History isn't a roadmap — it's a record of everything people didn't expect. Dan on why anyone claiming to predict the future is probably selling something.
The Mr. Beast $400,000 weight-loss experiment and what it reveals about designing environments where success becomes inevitable, not optional.
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dean:
Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan. Dan:
Mr. Jackson. Quality training. Quality training. I guess- Dean:
For quality Dan:
Purposes. Dean:
That's why Dan:
Everything Dean:
Is recorded, right? Dan:
I guess we need more of that, don't we? Quality training. Yeah. Dean:
So you made it back? Dan:
Yeah. It was unbelievable how we got back. Everything was exactly on time. Dean:
Oh my goodness. Dan:
Yeah. I put that date in the calendar. Dean:
So they've abandoned their, we're not happy till you're not happy policy. Dan:
Yeah. And in San Diego, they have this brand new terminal, which for a while anyway, is just devoted to Air Canada and Southwest Airlines. Oh, goodness. Dean:
Wow. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. I mean, beautifully designed. Dean:
This is in San Diego? They have an Air Canada terminal? Dan:
No, it's a brand new terminal. And for now, the only airlines are Air Canada and Southwest Airlines. Dean:
Oh, okay. And this is in Toronto? No, Dan:
San Diego. Dean:
Oh, in San Diego. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's surprising that the ... Dan:
Yeah, it opened about six months ago. Oh, Dean:
I like that. Dan:
It's an extension of the main terminal, but for now. And for a moment in history, I don't know how long, but you just arrive and you walk in and Air Canada is right there. That's great. Dean:
They Dan:
Take the bags and then you just go to the left a little. And the clear line is we have clearer. And we walked straight through. Bags went straight through and really nice, very nice terminal. But the gate where we needed to be was right there. And the plane arrived on time and we got on time. It took off on time. And we got home a half hour early. I guess the jet stream was more powerful that night. And Dean:
Everything is working. That's almost like just a few more of those and not going to erase the taste of your other Dan:
Experience. Oh no, that was gone and then that was gone. Oh, Dean:
Good. There you go. Dan:
That was gone. I don't really hold onto it. I've Dean:
Always Dan:
Loved the- But I had been playing with a thought recently of not complaining when things don't work, but being excited when things do work. I think my chances of having things work are diminishing, big systems falling apart. And so I said, "I'm just going to take the attitude of anytime something does work, I'm just going to be excited about it. Dean:
" That's great. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
You're looking ... It's the Pigmalian effect. It's the positive expectation. That's good. Dan:
Yeah. You Dean:
Know what's ... The location- Dan:
I don't understand Pygmalion. I'm thinking about my Fair Lady. Dean:
Oh, well, there's a psychological principle called the Pygmalion Effect. And it was a study that they did with teachers where they would Dan:
Tell Dean:
The teacher that, "Oh, you've got Danny Sullivan, he's gifted. He's like really going places." And the teachers would subconsciously treat you like you're special and you've got real potential. And then they would tell other teachers that you are trouble and don't let you get away. You got to keep your eye on that, Danny Sullivan. He's a problem. Don't let him get away with anything. And in the studies, just subconsciously, the way the teachers treated you, you would outperform if you were treated like you're special and you would underperform if they thought you were a problem. And of course you just poor innocent Danny Sullivan, you weren't aware of it and you weren't doing anything different than you normally do, but the expectation of what your outcome was going to be was affected by the teachers. And I think that that's a good way to look at life.
It's along your lines of your eyes only see and your ears only hear what you're looking for, right? Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I ever had a difficult teacher. I had some really supportive ones. I can think about four over the 12 years that I was in school that zeroed in. Yeah. Yeah. Dean:
I remember, so Mrs. Jefferson, my third grade teacher, if I look back on it, she was the one that identified that Dean is able to achieve excellent results with what seems like little effort. Imagine if he applied himself. She had a really smart way of doing things because she would ... I would get the work done quickly and then I would be talking to the other kids and she was ... One of the other comments was that I was a disturbing influence in the class, distracting the other kids when I was done. So she made me the ... I call it, she assigned me the role of the poet laureate for the class or whatever, but she would allow me, whenever I was done my work, she would give me one of these ... I remember the index card, like a nice size card print thing and these markers.
And she would allow me to draw and create something after I was done in exchange for not talking to the other kids. And I thought, wow, that was an interesting exchange. Giving me some other creative outlet without any expectation or whatever, here I am, that's 50 years later and I still,
That's a standout moment in my education. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important to have one or two adults. I think one of the things that child psychology, that there's one or two adults that zero in on you as a child and takes interest and shows that they think you've got a big future coming. Yeah. I think that's important. Dean:
Who was that for you? Dan:
Well, I had a third grade teacher also. It was Ms. Miller who broke my heart because the next year she came back as Mrs. McConnell and I lost her. I lost her. Dean:
Boy, oh boy. Dan:
And then I think there was a seventh grade teacher and then there was an English teacher in high school and actually the school principal actually took a real interest in me. And that was important because ... I mean, in 1950s and '60s, college wasn't a big thing. It wasn't like you're getting your high school students ready for college.
And first of all, I was born in the generation that was smaller than the previous generations, and that was the first one. I was in the first American generation. It went from 28 to 46, 1928 to 1946. And consequently, there was more than enough of everything when you got to school. There was more than enough personal attention. When you got into out of school and you went into the marketplace, there was more than enough jobs, there was more than enough everything. So I think I had history, wasn't particular individuals. It was just the historical period. And if you look, basically that generation from achievement wealth ... Silicon Valley was actually created by that generation. Everybody talks about the baby boomers, but it was actually that generation that created Silicon Valley. It was the people who had been born because they were mostly too young to go into the war, the Second World War.
Like if you were born in 1928, when the war started, you were 13, so you didn't go into the war. And then they had that big expansion of college education with the GI Bill. And so there was a lot of emphasis on education and you just ... It was ... Remember the cartoon movie, Remembering Nemo, Finding Nemo. Yeah. Dean:
Finding Dan:
Nemo. Yeah. Yeah. There's that stream off east coast of Australia where if you get into the stream, you go like eight, nine miles an hour underwear. I kind of sense that that happened to my generation. We just got caught and it was good. And to this day, I feel that to this day, I was born into an abundant world and took advantage. Dean:
Yeah. That's interesting, right? Because you would have been born at the tail end of the great expansion in the 20s, all that. So that's why you're saying more than enough, everybody probably ... The 20s would have probably felt like the Dan:
80s ago. Well, I was born in 44 though. I was born. Dean:
No, no, I get that. But I mean, the remnants of all the stuff that was created was still there because there were less ... Dan:
Yeah. I don't pay attention to competition essentially because I didn't have any. Dean:
Right. Dan:
The Boomers were the competitive, the real competitive, because there was not enough for everybody, and they're fiercely, fiercely competitive.
And it's interesting. I mean, I think the talking about generations, the whole notion that there's an 18 year period, and that makes you something ... I think it's kind of hard to prove. It's one of those concepts. It's kind of hard to prove. In other words, if you were born right the first year of what they call a generation or you're born, you probably don't have that much in common with someone ... I was born in 44. I really didn't have that much in common with somebody who was, say, born in 1930. But we named things, so ... Dean:
Yeah, exactly. Dan:
It's Dean:
So ... Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
It Dan:
Is funny. The end of the second World War was a really big deal, and there's no question when the men came back from the service, and then there were a lot more babies. Dean:
Imagine that. Dan:
Yeah, imagine Dean:
That. Imagine that. Yeah. I do take with great interest though, the demographics, like those things. You mentioned all of Silicon Valley, those people were the real founders of ... I read ... Malcolm Gladwell had a great book called Outliers. Dan:
Did you Dean:
Ever read that? Yeah. Dan:
No, I didn't. I've read almost all of them, but I didn't read that one. Dean:
Okay. So Outliers is a really fascinating thing, and it talks a little bit about what you were saying. Like you look at Steve Jobs and Bill Joy and Bill Gates, and all those guys are all the same age, right? They all arrived at just the right time in that they were ... And they had the unfair advantage of access. So Bill Gates, for instance, had unusual access to mainframe to a computer because the private school that he went to in Seattle was one of the very few schools that actually had a direct connection to a mainframe. So he had access to computing to get in his 10,000 hours of response to it. But these guys were at an age where they were ... If they were even five years or so younger, they would have gone into ... They would have been too entrenched into the mainframe world by that point to be able to be on the cusp of the personal computing Dan:
World. Dean:
And he talks about a lot of these things that we look at as outlier talents were really largely a factor of circumstances. Like Dan:
He Dean:
Starts the book with the idea that if you are aspiring to be an NHL hockey player, the Dan:
Best- Be born in the first three months of the year. Dean:
That's exactly right. If you're born in January, you are- January, Dan:
February, March. If you look almost ... Because they're bigger nine months later. Dean:
That's right. By the time ... Yeah, by the end of the year ... Yeah, they're almost a year bigger than the other ... I mean, the difference in a year when you're six or seven or 10, that's a big difference Dan:
And Dean:
That's when they start sorting by age group, the talent of kids. And then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because they have access to better coaching and more hours of training. So by the time everything balances out when they're 15 or 16, and the difference between a 15 and a 16 year old is not that much physically, their head and shoulders are both because they had access to all the training. Dan:
And Dean:
I think we're going to see this in AI. We are in the cusp of this Dan:
Right Dean:
Now where the kids that are just coming into college age and may completely bypass college, but go into AI, that's going to be ... It's a whole different world right now. If you're starting adulthood, economic adulthood, the opportunities are like never Dan:
Before. Yeah. It's really interesting. I read a article, I think what I'm going to tell you relates to what you just said is see if I'm skillful enough to do it.
But they were talking about why the sudden interest in the 20s generation, basically the 20s generation in socialism. And the thesis is that because the connection between university education and high paid employment has been broken over the last 15 years, I'd say over the last 15 years, but it had a lot of momentum. And so the universities can say, doesn't matter how much money you borrow, doesn't matter what matters, you're automatically going to go into an employment track after your four years. And it actually started to fall apart in the 08, 09, they're looking more and more at the subprime loan crisis in the United States, because we're talking about American examples here, not other countries. And it started to happen that first of all, there weren't as many jobs. There were more students, but there weren't as many jobs. And then the other thing was that the nature of college education really changed.
It became much more political. It became much more cultural and not so much on hard skills. So, I'm sure that the STEM, science, technology, engineering and mathematics and that, it didn't affect them, but a lot of the others became very soft subjects. And so you were given credit for being in four years university, but not once during the four years did you actually take something that was useful in the marketplace, but it really has ... I think COVID was the real hammer that came down on that. And AI, immediately, how are people adapting AI? They're going high and low with ... If you're a company, I'm talking about corporation or big company, you're seeing what the entry level people do and you're just saying, "We're going to use AI for all the entry level." And that would be summer work too. It would be like where people can do summer work or they can do evening work or they can do weekend work.
They say, "No, we're just going to use AI." But the other thing that's going very high that actually your white collar, first of all, we're talking about white collar. We're not talking about blue collar, we're talking about white claw color, and it's mostly meetings. It's mostly meetings and AI is really good at all the stuff for the scheduling, the agenda. So the top and bottom of the employment market is being taken away, seems to be right now. Yeah.
Yeah. And the other thing is that every 20 year old can make up its own mind. I mean, and some people notice, like college education, I can just see, you know, I talked to others in their 20s and they don't seem to be ... They're getting a degree, but the degree isn't worth much. Right. Dean:
Well, I mean, you look at ... If you started, even if you look at where we are with AI, if you go back to November of 2023 when ChatGPT first came- Dan:
22. Dean:
Was it 22? Yeah. Dan:
23 and I think so. Yeah. Dean:
So we're three and a half years in, and it's a completely different ... I mean, every single Dan:
Quarter- You may be right, and I'm wrong. I think it was 23. Yeah, Dean:
Okay. Dan:
November 30th, 23. Yeah. Dean:
Yeah. So two and a half years, you're about halfway through getting a degree, and it's already a completely different world than it was in 2023. And you look at ... And just the constant layering on top of it that the AIs are getting better at creating and coding even better AIs, that self-improvement thing. So in four years, if you extend it now, another to November 2027, let's say, at the four year mark, imagine if you had started university in September of 23, whatever you're coming out with four years later, it's going to be a completely different world. I just saw somebody had a friend who went through a drive-through and all the orders are now being taken and done with AI. And I've seen the videos, I haven't seen it in person, of other kiosks, like the front counter where you're ordering as you're talking to a screen, where you're talking with somebody from the Philippines who you're seeing a real person taking your order and doing your things, but they are in the Philippines and you're at the counter.
So you see where the- Dan:
Yeah. Well, here's the thing, the Marxism thing that I want to talk about is that you can really see it with the election of Mom Donnie, the mayor of New York,
That his real supporters were all college students and college graduates that they weren't ... He says the poor ... It wasn't the poor people at all. It was the highly educated, actually kind of privileged, privileged people, but their opportunity, their employment opportunity has been taken away and it's an insult to the status that they think they have that look, you know, I really bore down to do all the tests in grade school and high school and the ACTs and everything to get into the right university that if I got a diploma from that unit, that gave me high status in society and that status means nothing now in the world. And this is a profoundly unfair world and I feel oppressed, Dean:
I Dan:
Feel oppressed. And when people who think they're better than the marketplace does and feel enormously insulted or feel enormously cheated, Marxism, like Marxism and socialism is an attractive political agenda. Dean:
And it goes back to even their parents think about what their parents went through to get them in the right preschool, so they had a good chance to get into the right elementary Dan:
School. Yeah. And the thing is, they're very conformist. These are not innovative kids.
And by the same token, the kids that we don't hear about are the ones who they put their finger up and they tested the win and said, "Forget what everybody else is doing. I'm going to take a separate..." So what you have, and it hasn't surfaced yet, but you have an amazingly innovative group in the same generation who haven't complained or anything. They just went about mastering AI and creating an entirely new path to the future with AI, but it won't show up right away. That won't show up right away. They're not the shouters, they're not the complainers, they're busily getting market share. Dean:
Yeah. Yeah. Dan:
They're listening to I love marketing. Dean:
That's exactly right. That's the place to be. Dan:
They're looking for their profit multipliers. Dean:
Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the great thing is that the psychology of understanding human behavior, that's really what it is, is it's behavior engineering of- Dan:
Well, yeah, it's behavior engineering, but each individual, I mean, the ones who win are the people who engineer their own behavior. I mean, your little checklist for yourself, "I know I'll be happy when." I Dean:
Know I'm being Dan:
Successful, Dean:
Yeah. Dan:
Is behavior engineering. I mean, you did that yourself. It's kind of funny, I'm just putting together tools for the next quarter of- Dean:
Workshop. Dan:
Free zone. The one I'm working right now is intentional times accidental, and you have two columns, and you have the achievements that you have that were intentional. In other words, you did some thinking, and you analyzed a way ahead, and you did it, and it was successful. And the other one is an opportunity just visited you and happened to you, and everything, but it's both. Entrepreneurial success is not one or the other. It's actually both multiplying each other, but you can't be so intentional that you screen out the accidental. Dean:
Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about your certainty and uncertainty, and that's really ... Because I've been thinking about it in the context of looking back, and you don't need much of a runway, go And backwards to completely change a trajectory. Even if you had a year or less even, sometimes just seeing where things- I think three years Dan:
Is the Dean:
Maximum. Dan:
I think three years is the maximum. We're sitting at the beginning of 26. If you go back to the beginning of 23, that's enough history to figure out almost anything that you need to do over the next three Dean:
Years.That's an interesting take. So say more about that because that's ... I know we did a- Well, first of all, there's a tool, right? We did a tool about that, three years. Dan:
Yeah. Well, your six year framework. So three years back, three years forward. It's part of the book, always more ambitious. Dean:
Right. Dan:
And my set is that I think it's capability that creates the ambition. And I said, "So if you go back over the last three years and very consciously look at the gains that you've made, the gains and go a little bit deeper." Some of them were intentional and some of them were accidental. Accidental in the sense that it just showed up for you. You met someone. I mean, number one for me is just meeting Babs in my whole life, just meeting her. And it was because I was late. There was a business conference, the room was filled except for one seat and I sat down and Babs was sitting next to me. I wasn't even sure I was going to go to this weekend event and I did ride late, just one seat left. I sat down and the rest is history. Dean:
What Dan:
Are you looking Dean:
At? Dan:
Yeah. What are you looking at? You. And so that was a big and. Dean:
Exactly. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's important for entrepreneurs to give equal importance to both. There's things that you intend and the things that ... Yeah, they just happen and you take advantage of them. Dean:
Yeah. And there's Dan:
So very few. Yeah. But going back to your ... If I can identify one thing that I think entrepreneurs are really weak at their past, they tend to want to get away from their past. In other words, they're always creating a bigger future because they're kind of unhappy with their ... They're kind of unhappy with their past. But all the gold is in the past. Dean:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm always amazed. We talk about these inflection points, right? Whenever we do the exercises of going back at your 10 times inflections. And when I look back over my adult life, there's only a very few really pivotal inflection vector changers that made a difference. Like you talking about meeting Babs, if I just look at ... I think it begins with Lars Echtall, the guy that was the inspiration for me switching from tennis to business as getting in that direction. Dan:
How old were you when Dean:
You did that? So I was 21 and we had just was playing these were called satellite tournaments for tennis, like minor league baseball equivalent kind of thing. And had just come from this tournament in Florida that Andrea Agassi won. It was his first pro tournament. This would have been in like March of 87. And he was this 15 year old blue haired kid with this rocket, forehands, and he just was head and shoulders above people. And I was looking in the satellite events, there were ... I was 21 at the time, and there were guys that were late 20s, early 30s that were still out playing the satellite circuit. I realized that's not ... If I push the accelerator pedal, I don't want to be that. And I realized that I was a little bit late as a 21 year old to be ... Because I was playing at a very high level, but I had been at the tennis academy where the 16 year old kids and stuff, like the phenoms, the top talents in the country were all at my level or better.
And it was just an interesting thing because Lars had been a professional tennis player. He got to 180 in the world and had a knee injury. He was 26. And he had time off to recover. And in a moment of reflection, was thinking to himself, "I got this knee injury. I'm 26 years old. There's theoretically only 179 people in the world that are better than me at what I do. And I maybe have ... I've got a limited runway for this. I'm
Getting older." And his thought was, "I wonder what the 180th ranked businessman in the world is making right now." And he immediately switched games. And my thought was how I interpreted that was that if I switched to business, like at 21, I could be Andre Agassi in business, that I would be young, I would have a head start because all my cohorts were still two years away from graduating college, my peer group. And if I went back and started in business, I would have a head start and that's exact because I could take all my things that I had developed as a tennis player, competitiveness, that dinner, that conversation ... There he is. Oh. Dan:
Your last word was competitiveness. Dean:
Oh, competitiveness. Yeah. So I would have my ... At 21, I had all the advantages of that, of competitiveness and energy and strategy, all of that stuff. I felt like I had a really good thing and personality. I had a lot of stuff going for me. And Lars was in the real estate business and that's what ... So he had everything that I wanted. He had the Porsche 911. He had the great house. He had the great life. And so I thought that's real estate. What I really liked about real estate too was that it was a meritocracy. It was a meritocracy. It was real. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it was more importantly, there was nobody stopping ... You could be as good as you could be, and you were personally rewarded for doing stuff. So that was ... I look at that vector change as an amazing thing.
But I think if we look back from the future, looking back to now, I think we're going to see the AI. I mean, it's a civilizational ... I don't know that there's ever been anything as big as this, as a shift in Dan:
... Yeah. I mean, printing was very definitely one of these that if you could read, you could read and write. I mean, it pretty well sorted out the literate from the illiterate really quickly, but it actually ... Within 30 years after Gutenberg, there were 30,000 printing presses all across Europe, Northern Europe. Dean:
How many Dan:
Years? 30,000. In 30 years, there were 30,000 printing presses. And I mean, smaller population, bigger distances, I mean, you have to take that into account, but it had a profound impact. And it just created havoc in society over the next 150 years. I mean, it would just turn things on their head. But I mean, AI is coming as a result of all the breakthroughs that happened before it. I mean, there's probably a thousand different technologies that have each been developed. Each of them was important that goes into AI. Yeah. Dean:
Yeah. I just think, boy, Dan:
Is- If you hadn't had the experience of the internet for the last 20 years, AI would just be something happening in somebody's lab. It wouldn't have the social impact. Yeah. Dean:
I think it's going to be an accelerated impact though. I think that you're saying 30 years basically is when the consumer internet basically started, right? 96 when AOL started blanketing, trying to get everybody online. It just feels, Dan, that 30 years from now, we're not even going to recognize what ... Dan:
What does that become? Well, I mean, it's interesting. I was having a conversation and people said ... I said, "It's all a surprise." I said, "If we were having a discussion on the 10th of September and 10th of September in 2001, you'd have all sorts of plans that was going to happen and everything else." And the next day changed everything, nine eleven changed everything and same thing. History is the record of everything that people weren't expecting. Dean:
That's exactly right. Yeah. Dan:
They don't record the stuff that they were expecting. They only record the stuff they weren't expecting, but we keep saying, "Well, it's very clear where history's going. " It's never clear where history's going, because history doesn't go anywhere. History follows behind. Dean:
It's just the record. It's creating a better past. That's right. Dan:
The Dean:
History is what actually happened. Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. People who think that they can predict the future. I mean, you know right off the bat that it's a sales pitch. They're selling something and you want to get in early on this because the window's going to close and you're not going to have a chance to do that. I would say this, but I think that making AI useful for yourself is the same as learning arithmetic and learning, reading and writing in the first grade when you get in, when I got into first grade. These are very, very important. This is a very important skill to get on board with as soon as you can. Dean:
Yeah. I really like durable context. I think thinking about your thinking is going to be as valuable, like our brains aren't going to change. We're taking our brains with us and thinking about your thinking is going to be an amazingly adaptive skillset and that's what all these tools that we do in Strategic Coach and Free Zone are about. And I think that I'm really looking at the VCR formula as a durable context that it's not going to ... Envision, capability and reach are the durable contexts that are going to carry on, but the things that will fit underneath those and are access to, especially to capabilities is ... Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we had a really terrific ... I don't know if you've talked to anybody, but we had a really terrific free zone summit last Tuesday and I did it all with one tool. I did the whole day with one tool and it was just guessing, betting, and payoffs. Oh man, I love Dean:
That. Yeah. Dan:
Yeah. And it's a tool that we've taken in one of the quarters. I think it was last year, about this time last year. So everybody was there. We had 150 if you include both. No, there was about 30 that weren't there, about 300 free centers that weren't there. We had about 80. We're at about 110 right now,
And they brought guests. So there was about 70 guests, and so I just started off and I said, "Look, we're going to do a little thinking exercise here." And I brainstormed, "What are the best guesses and bets that produced a payoff that you had?" And everybody brainstormed for a couple minutes. I said, "Okay, so let's take five of them." And I had my example and they looked at it and everything and we got that all finished in about five minutes. They got it all filled in and then they went into breakout groups and then they came back and I said, "Okay, that gets you started for the day. Now we're going to have six people and you have their sheets." So I had John Bowen, I had Chad Jenkins, I had Mike Wandler, I had Jerry Browder, I had John Kissel, and I had Ted Kerr, and they had filled in their forms previously, and then they just came up 20, 25 minutes each and I just interviewed them, biggest guests and bet that got you to where you are today, next biggest guess and bet.
And then we just talked and did three of them in the morning, did three of them in the afternoon, and then we had a panel of all six of them. Oh, Dean:
That's great. Dan:
Yeah. And then at the end of the day, everybody filled in the rest of their sheet, next guesses. I've never pulled off an entire day with one tool, and that was really great. But I think there's just something unusual about that tool in the sense that it gives you a language right at the end. There's guesses, guesses are just thoughts. Bets, you're taking a risk with- What are you going to do? Yeah. You're not taking a risk with a guest, you're taking a risk with the Dean:
Better Dan:
Because it's money, it's time, it's attention, and then there's all the other things that you're saying you're not paying attention to while you're betting, and then you get a payoff. So I think what held it together was the fact that everybody had this guest bet and pay off during the day, and I think that really pulled it off. Yeah. But it was great. Beautiful, beautiful resort. It was really nice, and the weather was great, and yeah. Dean:
What were the two or three highlights of what people's guesses and bets? Any standouts? Dan:
I think Mike Wandler surprised everybody because he's really into nuclear and everybody's sort of ... And he's got a head start on everybody because he can actually manufacture this stuff. He's doing the ... They're bringing back a hundred nuclear plants around the ... I mean, the whole country is, but Mike is in on the ground floor with us and they've been shut down some of them for 20, 30 years, so they need all entirely new materials and Mike can manufacture it and everything. But I think that really wowed people, that really wowed people. And I think the second thing is just how well the tool worked, how well the tool worked. And number three, I think Chad Jenkins caught everybody's attention, and I think he had a lot of people come up to him afterwards and said, "When is this conference of yours? And what's the software you've created?" And everything like that.
So I think that would be the three top ones. Dean:
Yeah. I'm bullish on the VCR formula as a collaboration platform. I just see it guessing and betting that's the way. And I think the whole ... Yeah, and our access to capabilities is really in a way that allows us to stay in our unique abilities, that's where everybody's at there. That's the jet stream, right? It's only when people are forced outside of their unique ability that there's friction. And to Dan:
The Dean:
Extent you can surround yourself with other jet stream enabled unique abilities that in collaboration, that's a Dan:
Fantastic thing. It's funny, the day before Mike, Mike Koenigs put on the 3R AI and he asked me to do a tool, so I did it. And I did up in your game where you take a look at all your activities, doing activity inventory, and there's the activities that the ones that irritate you, then there's okay activities. They don't irritate you, but they don't excite you either. They're just activity. And then third one is fascinating, but what happened, Mike talked for about an hour and a half, and he just wowed them what he can do in 20 minutes, take other people six months to do, and he can do it in 20 minutes. And so we took a break and I came back and I said, "Okay, now I'm going to give you a thinking process where you can just avoid everything that Mike is talking about.
" And you can get smart humans between you and the technology. I said, "What you want is smart humans." Dean:
Yes, Dan:
That Dean:
Is Dan:
Exactly Dean:
Right. Dan:
So Mike's a real smart human. You'd want Mike between you and the technology. Dean:
Yes, exactly. Dan:
Because Dean:
There's no way you're going to compete with that. I mean, it's who, not how.That's the thing, right? Dan:
Well, he's Andre Agassi. Yes, Dean:
You're Dan:
Exactly Dean:
Right. Dan:
Yeah. In one minute, I'll tell you an experience I had when I was in the army, we took care of the entertainment of half of South Korea in the eighth army. And one of our entertainers was Doreen Tracy, who was one of the original mousketeers. And so I spent three days, I was just chatting with her because we were bus riding to about five different bases. And anyway, she really impressed me because she was, at that point, she was like 20, she would have been maybe 22 years old. And she said, "This is the last time I'm ever going to be entertaining in my life. This is my last gig." And she said, "I'm only a featured entertainer because of who I was when I was 13 years old." And she said, "I'm not any better than I was when I was 13." I was way better than other 13 years old, but I'm not any better than I was when I was 13.
She said, "That can't be my career." And she said, "I have to go back and start over again." But it's like you switching from tennis to real estate. She just had this sense, she said, "There's a lot of sad stories of people trying to be in their 40s who they were when they were a child star." And she said, "I can't do that. " She went back and she became a talent manager for Warner Brothers and spent 40 years as a top talent manager in Hollywood. Dean:
Which is such a great awareness and shift, right? Yeah. Dan:
Very positive and pleasant person to meet. I mean, she was very, very ... I mean, she was total extrovert. She was just totally extroverted. Yep. She said, "You just got to see the writing on the wall." And she said, "I know that ... " She said, "I know I got a shift." And that was the last time I saw her. And I didn't really think of her and I didn't look at her until the internet came in and she had done her 40 years and then she created a jazz and jazz and blues club in Hollywood, but she had a lot of famous, a lot of people that she was managing Frank Zappa, she had Frank Zappa was- Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Dean:
That's crazy. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
But think about at 22, that's pretty good insight on her part to have that awareness. Dan:
Pretty self-aware tremendously. It always impressed me. I said that person tells themselves the truth, but it's kind of like she didn't have our identity tied up with ... I mean, people, you know, athletes who live off five years of their life, for the rest of their life, they live off a five year period of their Dean:
Life. Dan:
Yes, Dean:
Very true. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
I love it. Dan:
Yeah. Dean:
Yeah. So a quick update on the inevitability experiments that this putting the phone in the lockbox has become a locked in behavior now. It's like I've done it enough that it's the go- to and locked in. So now I can move on to other things, but I think moving towards ... I really see this moving towards inevitability is the ... That's the thing that can Dan:
Ensure Dean:
What you want to have happen happens. And even with ...
I look at ... I was up sharing with Joe Polish. I was telling him about Mr. Beast had a experiment, a video where I had a guy, they built this building that had a gym and living quarters and kitchen and a track around the outside of it and a basketball court and all the equipment and everything. And the challenge was that you move in to the building and you lose a hundred pounds or leave. And if you lose a hundred pounds, you win $250,000, right? Wow. Yeah, yeah. And so it was like he completely under ... In an environment that was a hundred percent conducive to what the goal was. And he had a personal trainer. He had all the food, like a whole grocery store basically in the thing of all of the whatever food he wanted Dan:
To Dean:
Cook the food. So they removed any outside distraction that added inevitability to it. And in six months, he lost the hundred pounds. And it's an interesting- Dan:
This is Mr. Beast who did it? Dean:
Mr. Beast set up the environment, but it was
Someone ... He did the video. It was his challenge, right? So he did that same thing. He's got a lot of his videos have a pattern where it's like a hundred days where you have to To stay in this thing for a hundred, you're artificially constraining outside influences. And that's where I think that that's inevitability. If the only food you have access to is healthy, good food, and you've got a chef there to prepare it for you and there's nothing to do but work out or play basketball or walk around the track or whatever the things, all the healthy behaviors. It's no wonder it works out. Dan:
I mean, plus there's 250,000 too. Dean:
Well, that's exactly right. And by the time he won, because he kept adding additional challenges on it. So in the six months he won $400,000. Dan:
That's cool. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is day 75 of my creating great yesterdays. Dean:
I love it. Yeah. It's such a great- Dan:
Best three months of my life. Dean:
Oh, that's great. Leor will be happy to hear that. Dan:
Yeah. No, I talked to Leor. I talked to Leo about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting because I've sort of cracked the code on ADD. Dean:
Well, yeah. I'm excited to hear that. Dan:
Yeah. Well, ADD is where you emotionally commit to a future possibility that doesn't exist. It would be okay if it was one of them, but it's 10 of them. Dean:
Yeah, that's exactly right. That Dan:
They're all modeling. They're all in competition with your present attention. Dean:
Yes. Yes. That's the truth. And so what- Dan:
I haven't done that for 75 days and it's really cool. It's just talk to Dean at 10:00. I got Jeff Madoff at one o'clock. I've got a couple tasks to do. I emptied the dishwasher, put all the dishes away. I had a massage this morning. I've got 10 things that are available today to have a great yesterday. Dean:
Are you in Chicago or Toronto? Dan:
Toronto. Toronto. Dean:
Yeah. Oh, that's great. I Dan:
Love that. Anyway, it's going to be 1:47. Let's Dean:
Explore that more. I'm going to commit to ... That'd be my thing is I'm going to experiment with that to make seven days Dan:
Of Dean:
Creating a better past. And I'll report next week. Dan:
All right. Dean:
Thanks, Dan. Dan:
Talk to you next week. Bye. Dean:
Okay. Bye.
