Philip Roberts is always in close orbit to surfing’s greatest inventors. Mentored by water park guru Dick Croul (Wild Rivers) he’s brought the ideation of Tom Lochtefeld to life while acting as the grounding cable for Boogie Board inventor Tom Morey. In the late ‘80s, Surfer Mag offered him a project to paint, as they put it, “the future of surfing.” The gig was for an illustrator to bring a floating reef concept to life. From there he expanded into futuristic wave pool designs, much of which has become the blueprint for concepts we still see today. We wanted to pick Phil's brain to learn how he consciously or unconsciously seeded the future look of surf parks.

John Philbin’s best-known movie parts were in Children of the Corn, Tombstone, Point Break and, of course, The North Shore - that classic 1980s film about an Arizona wave pooler who goes to Hawaii. In this podcast, John talks about how he landed the role of Turtle (hint: he had to audition 7 times) and the movie’s lasting effect on a generation. As a core surfer he’s also well-placed to measure changes to surfing and the “life” many have sacrificed so much to be a part of and speak to how wave pools, surfing and their overall perception have shifted within popular culture. 

“You don't you don't have to be a bum to be a surfer anymore. I was telling my friends that you can be rich and be a surfer. It's a thing that's happened. The game is out man, but it used to be like, “yeah, I'm going to sacrifice everything in my life for this feeling of riding energy in the water.” And that's what it used to be like when I was a kid. You used to have to be a lifeguard or a firefighter to be a surfer. Now, you can put in hours and be a CEO of a company and be a surfer. You look at Mark Zuckerberg or someone and you're like, fuck, you know? Are you kidding me? Yeah. The richest man in the world, what he really wants to do is ride a wave because he’s discovered what we’ve known all along.”

Can a passion project like a wave pool have blind spots to reality? Matt Hyslop from Colliers International talks with WavePoolMag about his role in conducting feasibility studies for new surf venues. Matt highlights the importance of visitor forecasting and understanding the potential market when planning for a new wave pool. He also lets slip some of the ideal locations and the different business models that work. Matt also talks about those red flags that can arise during the development of a wave pool project.

Hear Euna Kim's firsthand account of Wave Park's inception in Siheung-Si, South Korea. With her mastery of languages and a newfound passion for surfing, Euna played a pivotal role in navigating the intricate journey from vision to reality. She'll reveal how Wave Park has become a cornerstone in the evolution of Korea's surf culture and delve into the complexities behind establishing this groundbreaking surf destination. Join us for an enlightening discussion on the multifaceted process of bringing Wave Park to life

In this podcast our guest Chris Kluesener sights on the wave pool space through the Surf Park Summit lens. We touch on the newness of the uniqueness of the industry and why his company’s annual gathering continues to connect people and grow. Chris quips that the real estate industry is bustling with 4 or 5 trade associations yes, “Is it really that hard to build a house? Wave pools are much more complicated and to date we have zero trade associations.” Take the industry’s pulse with Chris and I as Surf Park Summit gets set to return September 30 - October 2, 2024. You can sign up for thier newsletter right here.

In our latest episode we catch up with 1988 world champ Barton Lynch who many of us know as the live wire WSL commentator. From our side of this interview we relished hearing an unbridled Barton expanding his thoughts beyond the WSL broadcast two-minute cap as he shares his insights into the early days of the pro tour and how that generation had to scrap hard to make the pro tour dream happen. And while he also talks about his new video game, the ongoing BL Blastoff grom comp and a few other side bites, the heart of the conversation is, of course, wave pools. From the early Allentown ASP days to his relationship with Surf Lakes to how Kelly Slater has created the only place in the world where surfers mentally will their friends to totally blow a wave.

Shaun Hutchinson is Group Operations Manager at Urbnsurf. Most of the day he’s tucked back in the office redlining in the tasks department, but we coaxed him out long enough to do a podcast. During our half hour conversation we learned just how complex and layered managing a surf park is.

We returned live to the middle of a sheep paddock in bucolic Easter Compton to check in with the new CEO at The Wave, Hazel Geary. In this podcast we explore the similarities and differences between the Leisure, Beauty and Well-being Industries and Surf Parks. Are we really that different? Yes and No. Hazel digs in with a fresh level of sophistication gleaned from years in the fitness industry. In the process we discover many nuanced learnings that our wave pool industry can benefit from.

How does one go about training a machine to recognise each and every individual surfer? Flowstate have created an AI powered capture system that records each guest’s surf experience. And the amazing thing is that it works without RFID wristbands or board stickers. In this podcast we dig in and learn how Chris, Mike and the crew at Flowstate have built a system that recognises those minute nuances that separate and define us each individually as surfers. By developing this “style fingerprint” Flowstate have created a system that provides surf park guests with keepsake video clips of their wave pool sessions. Dig into the podcast to learn how Flowstate do what many consider to be an impossible task.

Revel Surf park is the wave pool powered by Swell MFG. It is the focal point of the 37-acre mixed-use development at Cannon Beach in Mesa, Arizona. In this episode, we have a wonderfully frank discussion with Matt Gunn, who along with his partner, built this wave technology. The journey one takes from obsessing on, and then building a new technology is not for the faint of heart. Matt shares fascinating stories of real-world R&D failures, triumphs and flat-out stoke as his crew prepares to open up to the public in Spring 2024.

In this episode, we have a lively chat with the always-on-point Dr. Jess Ponting Jess is one of the brains behind Surf Park Summit, the annual wave pool dreamer, doer and developer convention. The Summit runs September 18-20 in San Diego, California.

Many of the surf parks scheduled to open soon have been in the works for nearly a decade or more. Their architects are the original crop of dreamers and doers - the devout wave poolers in a long-term relationship with artificial wave technology. Andy Hadden wed the wave pool dream back in 2013 and is now eyeing the completion of Lost Shore Surf Resort, a 52-module Wavegarden Cove near Edinburgh. Despite the global ebbs and flows experienced by everyone these past few years, the project is marching toward a completion date of September 2024.

“We were relying heavily on this becoming an Olympic sport,” said Andy. “I think that was something that most of us could see coming. But still, you know, it's a bet. You could call it that. We had to go through two major planning applications, which is something that, you know, all the developers have to go through. So that meant knowing locally exactly how to navigate those choppy waters. And then fundamentally, you have to raise a heck of a lot of money and then you have to have the aptitude and desire to run one. So there's definitely a reason that surf parks aren't more numerous today. There are definitely going to be more later. You know everyone that's built a wave pool is wanting to build another one - I think that speaks volumes.”

There’s a mantra in the wave pool space that the development, opening and operation of parks will get easier as more facilities open up. That’s why the unveiling of URBNSURF Sydney is a pretty big deal. The launch makes the URBNSURF group the only entity to have two surf parks in operation. We wanted to find out if the company simply copy/pasted Melbourne to a new location or if they had to start from scratch. Was it easier this time around? We spoke with the one person most qualified to answer this question, URBNSURF Sydney GM Shaun Hutchinson.

The “City in a Forest” is well-known as the filming location for "The Walking Dead," music stars like Ludacris and Usher, horrendous traffic and a major launch point for the Civil Rights movement. And now, it might become known as the home to Georgia’s first wave pool. Spencer Broome and crew are driving the concept of Surf ATL, a wave pool with a broader vision of inclusivity and return. In this episode, Spencer explains why the most successful surf park is the one that satisfies both investors and the local community.

Dave Taylor and Mike Schwaab own Waco Surf, the Sputnik of surf parks in America. The facility launched in the early days of the wave pool race has since gone through many changes. Enter DT and Mike, two average guys who worked incessantly to fulfill their dream of owning a wave pool. Here is how it all happened.

The Lineup at Wai Kai is unique in the wave pool world. To make a chlorinated rapid wave work in the birthplace of surfing is a tall order. Getting a skeptical community to support that project might take even more skill and moxie. But since opening this year, the world’s largest rapid wave has integrated into the community here on the West Side of Oahu. How? In this episode we speak with Ikaika Kaulukukui and Greg Champion who, along with many others, have worked tirelessly to ensure that this wave contributes to the local community in a variety of ways and ultimately finds a place of belonging in Wai Kai.

Ander Wynne-Edwards is the Director of Operations at Endless Surf. He’s worked for Whitewater West for the past two decades building and commissioning large-scale wave pools – pneumatic wave pools in particular. In this episode, he walks us through everything that goes on in the time between a project breaking ground and rolling out the first set of waves. Ander also divulges what kind of things make a job go smoothly and conversely, some of those challenges posed in this unique project niche.

What is the premiere surf platform's take on wave pools? In this episode, we gather insight into the wave pool scene from the editor-in-chief at STAB Brendan Buckley. While we normally talk to wave makers and doers, Buck’s contribution to the wave pool discourse is on the culture, that unique confluence of salt and pool water. We hit on how ocean surfing is already changing due to the availability of wave pools as well as touching on points where the romance between the two is thwarted.

Blake Hess is a rare individual in that he is one of only a handful of people who know how to run, manage and develop a surf park. In the few years that wave pools 2.0 have been a thing, Blake has been deeply involved. He helped bring NLand online its first and only year and then he moved on and managed the lucrative ins-and-outs at Kelly’s. Now he is guiding three new American projects as they come on line. In this podcast Blake shares with us what happened at NLand, why Eddie Vedder is a great guest and where America’s next wave pool will be.

Dr. Jess Ponting joins us to touch on several projects and points including Stoke Certification, Surf Park Summit, the new Consumer Trends Report and more.

But the heart of the convo comes during his big-picture view of surfing. “People aren't used to thinking about a surf park as a legitimate recreation facility in a community," he says. "And there's, you know, a certain cultural cringe about the frivolity of surfing and how could we possibly allocate resources to something as frivolous as surfing? And the answer is because surfing is really good for people and it can be a real economic driver for communities and it doesn't have to be a drain on environmental resources.”

Skip Taylor is the guy we call when we’re stumped as he is one of the few veterans working the nascent wave pool landscape. This industry being what it is, he’s up to his elbows in NDAs so getting him to spill is basically impossible. That said, Zooms with Mr. Taylor are like a perpetual cocktail hour where the conversation is easy, funny and punctuated with sharp insights. We always emerge with more knowledge and insight. In this episode Skip spills the beans on a few off-radar topics, dives into some gory specifics and delivers on his latest project, The Lineup at Wai Kai.

Brad Gerlach held down a very successful pro career during the ASP’s 3-to-the-beach era, finishing ranked at #2 in 1991. He then went on to pursue big wave riding, winning an XXL award in 2005. At some point, Brad merged martial arts and surfing fundamentals in a new training regimen called Wave Ki. In a nutshell, it’s practicing movements on land over and over again until those motions become engrained in your memory. Then, when you surf, you tap into this databank of movements without really thinking about it. We wanted to learn more about how this dry-land training can help surfers improve their wave pool game.

In this episode we speak with Julie Kline of EpicSurf whose goal is to bring the benefits of sliding along a wave to everyone. The deepwater standing wave revolution will allow more waves in more places than ever before, bringing surfing to people who ordinarily might not have the chance to become surfers.

Steven Nauwelaerts of AllWaves refers to competitors as "collegues," a refreshing take in a sector that grows more competitive each day. Steven has a unique view of the space. He spent years doing the one thing that might be more difficult than creating surfable waves in a confined pool – extrancting energy from ocean waves. Steven is one of the few people to turn the equation on its head and make the transition from wave farmer to wave pooler. Perhaps it’s this ability to see waves in all their forms that allows a higher-up view of the surf park space. Steven’s design AllWaves lit up global news feeds last month with the unveiling of his technology in Belgium. WavePoolMag was there to test out the new pillow technology and learn more about this very different wave generation system.

In Rip Curl’s Search campaign, we are teased with images of empty lineups from far-off, exotic locations. So how does a company that built its core messaging on the nearly unattainable aspect of surfing, align itself with surfing in wave pools? In this episode, we speak with Angus Forrest, marketing manager for Rip Curl Australia and New Zealand, and discover how it’s really not that much of a stretch. During the discussion, we learn why Rip Curl identified surf parks as the next growth step for the company. We also get a sneak peek at how their tech gear will adapt and evolve in wavepools worldwide.

Brandon Lowry is the interim CEO at USA Surfing, the definitive amateur organization for surfing in America. He’s been involved in the pool scene for more than a decade, working with Greg Webber and BSR Surf Resort early on. In this episode we explore not only how wave pools can better Team America, but how pools will change the face of global surfing.

While we’ve been watching the surf industry shrink since 2008 – it’s never quite come back to where it was – we’ve also been watching the wave pool space accelerate with nothing but limitless possibilities. In this episode we learn how Billabong and other surf brands are courting the wave pool space. Evan Slater, VP of Marketing at Billabong, shares his insight into the complexity of branding in the surf park space and why “there’s more to it than just getting as many people as possible to stand-up on surfboards.”

Quick Update with Nick Hounsfield of The Wave. We’ve had Nick on the show before and The Wave’s history is well documented. For this episode of the podcast we branched out to explore community and how The Wave is helping diversify the lineup.

“We’re starting to see people of very different backgrounds come here, rather than feeling like it’s constantly a middle class white playground which would make me feel like I failed. So I want to make sure that diversity is embedded from the start.”

Luke Altschwager is the Managing Director at Parkwood Village on the Gold Coast of Australia. He’s a former pro golfer currently merging resort know-how with surf park potential via the Club at Parkwood. Well-spoken and sharp-witted, Luke walks us through the similarities and the gaps between surf and golf as we explore how future wave pool developments can learn from this established leisure blueprint.

In this episode, Surf Lakes engineer Kit Sidwell explains some of the nuances, history and basics of why the stone-in-a-pond wave machine concept works.

In this episode, Paul Chutter of Endless Surf and Roberto Colletto of Myrtha Pools dive into how they are changing the process of wave pool construction. Myrtha uses a pre-fab steel-and-pvc technique that simplifies the wave pool building process and reduces project time. Too good to be true? Give it a listen.

In our latest podcast Nick Robinson dives into the hot new topic of intervals in wave pools. Joining Nick and editor Bryan Dickerson are Baptiste Caulonque and Clement Ginestet of Endless Surf wave pools. The four explore the intervals inherent in popular surf systems and how that affects the surf itself, the customer experience and ultimately operating expenditures. It’s a fascinating dive into an area that is just now being recognised as a crucial component to surf park operations.

Nick Robinson chats with WavePoolMag editor Bryan Dickerson about the latest happenings and goings-on in the wave pool world including upcoming projects, rumors and pipe dreams. The two also map out what wave pool contests could and should look like...

Aaron Trevis has been tinkering away for well more than five years on Surf Lakes. He built small 1:25 and 1:10 prototypes of the plunger to see if the idea could work. It did. Fast forward to today and licensing has been fast with Surf Lakes selling territories in Hawaii, China, the US, and elsewhere. In all, the company says they have 19 projects in the works with more to be confirmed. WavePoolMag Podcaster Nick Robinson speaks with Aaron to cover the progress in Yeppoon and map out his company’s expansion into the global wave pool marketplace.

The first thing we noticed at URBNSURF Sydney was that everyone wore a name badge. “Dude maintaining the pool” now has a name (it’s Keith by the way.) This simple customer experience measure hints at the kind of changes Jennifer Vandekreeke has in mind for Australia’s premier surf park business. In her previous roles, she drove growth for travel and leisure companies, notably Carnival Cruise Lines. Having taken the reins from Damon Tudor, we were curious to find out how Jenn’s experience making big, giant boats profitable (hint: wave pools are also just big, expensive pieces of machinery as well) parlay into the world of surf parks.

Oscar Segall is the human behind Fazenda do Grama, Brazil and South America’s first surf-focused wave pool. In this episode podcaster Nick Robinson uncovers the how and why of Segall’s master development. The Wavegarden Cove is the central component to the private development and is only accessible via membership or residency. It could also herald the arrival of wave pools replacing golf courses en mass as future real estate developments copy Oscar’s business plan.

Urbnsurf Melbourne has been open for a little more than one year. In that time the gates have been shut more often than open. By not pumping out waves to a happy public on the daily, their learning curve for building a thriving, profitable surf park has been incredibly steep. CEO Damon Tudor shares with us an accelerated master class in wave pools, outlining the company’s plans including key targets in Sydney, Perth and elsewhere in Australia. Find out how he expects to get the job done.

Surfloch is one of the larger wave tech providers having originally made a splash with the sale of the Flowrider system to White Water. Tom Lochtefeld has led Surfloch into a new era of wave creation coming up with a powerful system for creating top quality surfing waves. He has proved it in the Californian desert at Palm Springs with ex-BSR wavemaker, Cheyne Magnusson and his team at the Palm Springs Surf Club.

Check out the video of their incredible few months when the test tank was open: https://vimeo.com/463513131

We also talk about lots of other things and Wisemans surf lodge down in Australia https://www.wisemans.surf/ 

I hope you enjoy it and next week we have Aaron Trevis with an update from Surf Lakes!

Stay well,

Nick

Jess Ponting relates his early days in Fiji and then working his way around the Pacific to San Diego. He ended up there for life becoming an Associate Professor at San Diego State University and is the Founder/Director of Center for Surf Research. He has an impressive resume:

Dr. Jess Ponting is considered the leading academic and consultant in sustainable surf tourism. He holds the world’s first Masters and PhD degrees to focus specifically on this topic and is the world’s most published researcher in the field with 14 scholarly journal articles, 2 books, 2 book chapters, and 21 conference presentations. He is an Associate Professor in sustainable tourism at San Diego State University where he founded the Center for Surf Research in 2011 – the world’s first research center to focus specifically on sustainable surf tourism. He also co-founded Groundswell Educational Travel, a company that facilitates university students studying sustainable surf tourism in world class surfing destinations; STOKE, the world’s first certification program to focus specifically on surf and snow sport tourism; and SurfCredits, a program to raise money for non-profit organizations in surf tourism destinations.

Dr. Ponting sits on the board of many surf related organizations including World Surfing Reserves, National Surfing Reserves, and Sustainable Surf. He has provided sustainable tourism consulting services in 11 countries and has advised the governments of several countries on the regulation and management of surf tourism.

Nick Hounsfield had a background in healthcare and is the chairman of Surfing England, having long been involved in the governing body. His dream to build a wave pool in a field outside Bristol has captured the attention of thousands, if not millions of people around the UK and the world.

He chats with us about the highs and the lows, not just of the inception period but also about ongoing operations and the plans that The Wave has for the future. Exciting stuff!

I can picture Daniel teaching volleyball on Ipanema Beach in Rio de Janeiro and wondering how these guys can fly in from Norway and enjoy such an amazing quality of life. So, being a man full of initiative he figured it out, jumped on a plane and moved to Norway to study. He had no choice but to work hard and get his degree, which he did. It was an incredible challenge, but he overcame it and is now a thriving member of Norwegian society and has embarked on another major challenge: creating the first wave pool in Norway.

Listening to the challenges he has set himself and is overcoming them, I couldn't help but be hugely inspired. I know you will be too. Listen to the end, it wasn't planned but he has an amazing story about a world champion surfer.

Check out Sunnnfjord Waves https://www.sunnfjordwaves.com/

Daniel referenced this film about cold water surfing in Iceland: http://www.underanarcticsky.com/

Hoddevik Surfing Beach https://goo.gl/maps/yAqitm3oDinCWmXn6

Catching up with Wavegarden is an exciting conversation. We discuss the traditional diamond shaped "Cove" and how it could be modified to fit different locations and topographies. We talk energy and how the Wavegarden is more efficient than any of it's competitors. We talk about some of the key projects that they're working on around the world and Séan lists the "next to market" contenders. It's definitely an exciting company to be working for!

One point that really stood out for me was when Séan outlined some details of the Fazenda do Grama project in Brazil. Fascinating!

Scott Bass hails from San Diego and runs his own surf show: "The Boardroom Show" Check it out over here https://boardroomshow.com/ It's a solid surfing podcast and an excellent show where Scott brings people together around the stoke of surfing.

We get to chat about his experiences in the following pools:

• Kelly Slater's Surf Ranch
• Typhoon Lagoon in Disney World
• NLand in Texas (now closed)
• BSR in Waco, Texas

It's a great chat and he's an incredible personality. Thanks Scott!

Mark has built a brand around making waves. It's called https://www.waveprizm.com/ , however he is not about to compete with the major players at this stage. In this long conversation Mark recounts how his life led up to his current experimentation with wave machines and discusses his claim that he can make bigger waves that are currently on the market.

It's a long chat, that gets very technical in places and some great stories are told in others. I'd love to hear your opinion, but podcasts don't really have a space for comments :(

Keep listening, this episode was late due to some technical glitches but we'll be back with Scott Bass this Thursday!

We have an amazing page on our website over on www.wavepoolmag.com called the surf planner. It details all the projects in the space that we've written about and there are potentially quite a few others under wraps.

In this chat Bryan and I head through all the projects we're aware of and proceed from the point of view of the companies who provide the technology:

• Kelly Slater Wave Co.
• Wavegarden
• American Wave Machines
• Surf Lakes
• Surf Loch
• White Water

We also mention the other smaller companies like: Wave Prizm, Swellspot, Swell MFG, Wave SEG, Ola wave pool, Webber Pools, Okahina. Additionally we discuss sheet waves vs RAPID waves (TM - just kidding) and the companies involved in that space.

It's the perfect primer on wave pools for 2021!

I'm at the construction site at o2 SURFTOWN MUC with Michi Mohr. He's a large, intimidating figure with thick hands and a disarming smile - warm, sincere and just a tad goofy. We walk around the construction site while wave pool maker Endless Surf runs a multitude of tests. Michi stops to pick up an empty box for the recycling bin, cleans up an errant Firewire demo board and eyes the area for other disarray. But it's a construction site. I mean the park isn't even completed and here's Michi making things as orderly as possible which, if we're being honest, isn't possible at this point in time. I wanted to find out why this surfer, who left Bavaria decades ago to chase waves around the world, had returned to Munich to become Chief Surfing Officer and how his way of running things will work here at a wave pool just a stone's throw from the airport.

Andrew Thatcher grew up surfing in the warm waters off Durban, South Africa and came to live in my home town, much further south before leaving for the USA back in 2000.

The happiest coincidence occurred when a family connection to Tom Lochtefeld landed him a job at the legendary wave maker's Surf Loch and Wave Loch company. Tom had created the Flowrider and Andrew helped to spread the piece of joy all around the world. Flowriders are in a wide range of places, from cruise liners, to restaurants, to water parks and as stand alone venues.

We talk a lot about Endless Surf, White Water's "new" product. It's essentially not new as they have been making waves for over 30 years when they built Typhoon Lagoon in Disney World and more than 400 other pools around the world.

It's a fascinating company, with equally absorbing products. You'll enjoy this one.

Cheers,

Nick

Ryder Thomas is a fun, engaging character, and while he was sitting in a cold grey day in New York, I jumped on a call with him from my base down here in Portugal.

We had a long and super interesting conversation all about the inception story of his company Pegasus Lodges, his relation to the Paris wave pool project and then his project down in the Caribbean at Punta Cana. Get this, it has not one but TWO pools to surf.

We talk about how Swell International evolved out of this and another exciting project which is going down in the Azores, Portugal. Listen up, it's a good one!

-Nick

Adam Bonvin had a dream a long time ago and worked diligently to create it. His story is an inspiring one, where someone with a completely different background to that of a big time property developer and armed with a passion for the sport envisaged a completely new tourism offer.

He is on the road to opening that dream in April 2021 and not even Covid can stop him! Good luck for the launch Adam, it was very motivating to hear your story.

Nick

Rupert Hill set up "Surf Simply" from scratch over in Costa Rica. He has made a remarkable success of it, going from zero to hero in over 10 years. It's been a long hard slog but he is on top of his game now, offering surf weeks for over $6,000 per person and boasting a two year waiting list. That's an incredible achievement. Well done, Surf Simply!

Nick picks Ru's brain about surfing and how the coaching aspects changes when you eliminate nature's whims from the equation. Learning to surf and improving your surfing in a pool becomes a whole lot more effective... or does it?

What do you think?