Virgil has finished his second, clarifying discourse on love, but it hasn't done the trick. The pilgrim Dante is even more full of doubts . . . pregnant with them, in fact.

Let's look at the pilgrim's second question to Virgil's discourse on love and talk about the complex ways Beatrice and even physical desire operate in the poem.

I'm Mark Scarbrough. Thanks for coming on the journey with me.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, you can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:19] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 40 - 48. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:47] To understand Dante's concept of love, void the Renaissance and Romanticism out of your thinking.

[09:48] An impregnated pilgrim brings up the sexual basis of desire (or love).

[12:50] The pilgrim asks a crucial question for any religion: How am I responsible?

[15:22] The allegory of Virgil and Beatrice comes close, even while Beatrice remains a physical draw for desire.

[19:01] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 40 - 48.

In answer to the pilgrim's request that Virgil show his work on the nature of love, Virgil (and the poet Dante behind him) condense and recast the very bases of the thinking in Western culture: Aristotle's notion that the objective world creates a mental picture that forms the basis of any action.

This passage is one of the most complex in PURGATORIO. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we take apart its claims and some of the translation problems both from the poetry's concision and the seismic change in thought after the Enlightenment.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE;

[01:56] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 19 - 39. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:30] A few things to admit before we start.

[08:00] The three steps or stages of love.

[14:01] The problem of translating "anima."

[17:26] Basic claims in Virgil's second discourse.

[23:17] Problems with these claims--and how Dante the poet solves them.

[29:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 19 - 39.

As Dante the pilgrim gets ready to leave the third terrace of Purgatory, the terrace of the angry, he has three ecstatic visions that warn about the dangers of excessive wrath.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at these visions and try to come to terms with the problem that Dante's rage may sit at the very center of COMEDY.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees for this podcast, please consider donating a very small monthly stipend or a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:11] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 19 - 39. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:13] Connecting this passage with the previous hymn to the imagination.

[07:37] A review of the first three ecstatic visions in Canto XV at the entrance to the terrace of anger.

[09:46] The first vision (from Ovid's METAMORPHOSES): a (garbled?) reduction of the Philomela, Procne, and Tereus story.

[16:31] The second vision (from the Bible): Ahasuerus, Esther, Mordecai, and Haman.

[20:37] The third vision (from THE AENEID: Queen Amata and her daughter, Lavinia.

[25:00] Dante's rage as the center of COMEDY.

[29:24] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 19 - 39.

The frenzied souls had spoken in unison, in monophony. Now they begin to differentiate, to enter into polyphony with each other.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we hang out on the first minor ledge of Purgatory with Dante the pilgrim and Virgil, his guide. They've been confronted by a mad battalion charge of souls who want to know how the pilgrim is in his body and what he can do for them when he returns to the land of the living.

One of them steps out and tells the story of his death, the first of three stories that end PURGATORIO, Canto V. Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:32] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto V, Lines 64 - 84. If you'd like to read along, print it off, make notes, or continue the discussion with me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:43] This soul is Iacopo or Jacopo del Cassero (c. 1260 CE - 1298 CE). Here are the important facts about his life.

[10:14] A line-by-line reading of the first half of Jacopo's story of his death.

[18:53] A line-by-line reading of the second half of Jacopo's story of his death.

[23:55] Why is this passage so associated with Italian geography? What has so much of PURGATORIO so far been about Italian geography and politics? Is Dante making a comment about his homeland as a sort of Ante-Purgatory?

[26:47] Jacopo's speech shows Dante the poet's attempt to "reconcile" the fraudulent nature of language while upholding its poetic possibilities. It's a task destined to fail--and spectacularly.

The pilgrim Dante and his guide, Virgil, have passed beyond the lazy souls and on to a group that's in a frenzy: running, calling out, speaking in one voice. The change is marked and important to understand how PURGATORIO works.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this passage from the fifth canto of PURGATORIO. These souls have died violent deaths. And they want something from the pilgrim Dante. He wants something, too. And his wants are somehow tied with Virgil.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:16] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto V, lines 37 - 63. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment about this episode, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:33] A concise but double simile, so compact it's a little garbled in the medieval Florentine--and perhaps comes from Virgil's GEORGICS (Book I, lines 365 - 367).

[08:27] Virgil doesn't seem to fully know what these frenzied souls want from the pilgrim Dante. If Virgil doesn't understand Christian theology, what then is his purpose in PURGATORIO?

[13:17] The souls speak in one voice (to Dante the pilgrim, NOT to Virgil!). The narrative movement of PURGATORIO is monophony (or unison) to polyphony.

[16:27] The souls want a transactional relationship with Dante the pilgrim. And maybe with Dante the poet, too.

[18:32] Dante seems to clarify the initial metaphor's implications.

[20:38] Two fundamental keys to PURGATORIO's thematics in this passage.

[25:30] Five interpretive problems in this passage.

We come to a second scene, certainly sequential, almost contemporaneous with the previous scene among Belacqua's cohorts.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we come to one of the great contrasting moments in PURGATORIO: the lazy souls with Belacqua vs. these souls, traversing the slope, singing, running, shouting, and making an all-around ruckus.

The key here, as always (so far), is Virgil. His response seems the opposite in this scene to his response just a few lines earlier. What gives?

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:16] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto V, lines 22 - 36. If you'd like to read along, print it off to make notes, or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:03] We hear the second song in PURGATORIO--and the second "miserere" of COMEDY.

[04:51] The pilgrim's body stops not only the sunlight but also the "miserere." Surely there's a moral point afoot here!

[07:54] Why is Virgil's attitude so different from just a few lines back? Three possible answers.

[13:20] Where are we? In Ante-Purgatory, according to the commentators, although Dante's been pretty quiet about the specifics of our geography. What is this place if it's not Purgatory itself? And who are these souls, the prisoners of hope?

Dante the pilgrim has had his last words with Belacqua and begins his journey on up the mountain. Or at least, laterally along the mountain of Purgatory.

But those negligent souls with Belacqua are not done with the pilgrim. They point him out and seem suddenly to leap into action . . . or at least, into words.

Dante is . . . flattered? Proud? Distracted. Virgil is having none of it. He reprimands the pilgrim and may give us a clue into the changing poetics of PURGATORIO.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we walk through the opening lines of canto V of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:03] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto V, lines 1 - 21. If you'd like to read along, print it off for notes, or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:01] PURGATORIO, Canto IV and the unity of the soul vs. PURGATORIO, Canto V and the apparent stability/ultimate fragility of the body.

[05:48] Canto V seems to open with more sardonic irony: a lot of activity from the negligent, lazy souls under the shadow of the rock with Belacqua.

[08:20] Virgil's reprimand is one of his most strident in COMEDY. It also recapitulates the argument about the unity of the soul.

[10:58] Dante the pilgrim may exhibit some hubris (or overreaching pride) in this passage. Or perhaps not. It's a tad unclear.

[13:53] Dante the pilgrim certainly sees Virgil's remarks as a reprimand. But can there be error in the redeemed part of the afterlife?

[17:15] Maybe Virgil is onto something about the writing of PURGATORIO. It cannot be "merely" about Dante the pilgrim's reactions.

[19:44] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto V, lines 1 - 21.

We've reached the end of the first narrative arc of PURGATORIO. Dante the poet brings the first five cantos to a close with a very quiet, almost disturbing decrescendo: a small voice, a woman's voice, reduced the barest details.

Join me as we read through PURGATORIO, Canto V, before we take it apart and start our slow-walk through it, passage by passage. My English translation is not found on my website. Instead, I just want you to sit back and take the canto in before we pull it into so many pieces.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:20] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto V. Again, it's not found on my website. Instead, please just listen for the narrative flow.

[08:38] What initial questions do we have after we've read PURGATORIO, Canto V?

We've talked about Belcqua as a parodic, ironic, or comedic figure in PURGATORIO. But is there a way to interpret his character as more straightforward? What if Dante the poet intends him to be a warning about negligence, a truth-teller sitting on the first minor ledge of the great mountain of Purgatory?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I read back through Belacqua's speeches in PURGATORIO, Canto IV, interpreting this time without the assumption of irony. What happens to the very words of the text when we change the interpretive lens?

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:27] Belacqua's opening "maybe" doesn't include any clues as to its irony based on its rhyme.

[03:44] Belacqua's second speech mentions being "valiant," right after the very valiant Manfred. Belacqua's third line is perhaps merely a statement of fact--or perhaps a bit of characterization for Belacqua: a know-it-all who didn't hear Virgil's discussion of the sun's position.

[06:48] Belacqua calls Dante "brother," a term of Christian affection.

[08:08] The way up is indeed blocked for Belacqua.

[09:34] Perhaps Belacqua's use of "martydom" for his purgation indicates his coming link with the church's founding legends. Maybe the punishments of Purgatory do indeed link the penitents to the martyrs.

[11:36] Belacqua's final sighs are indeed "good."

[12:25] Belacqua's last statement about efficacious prayer is orthodox theology.

Belacqua has been the subject of hundreds of commentaries over centuries as readers have grappled with who this figure is and what purpose he serves in Dante's poem.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I offer you multiple ways to interpret this most intriguing figure in PURGATORIO, a favorite character Samuel Beckett--and for me, too. I see him as a parody of the contemplative life. Which means I see Beatrice--or a parody of her--in this passage.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:25] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 115 - 139. If you'd like to print it off, read along, or continue the discussion with me about this episode, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:49] Several points in the passage to suggest Belacqua is an ironic figure of some sort.

[08:02] Who was Belacqua? The answer is surprisingly unclear.

[10:15] Belacqua is a favorite character for Samuel Beckett.

[11:18] How has Belacqua been interpreted over the centuries of commentary? And how do I read this most intriguing figure?

[15:56] Pain has a temporal component in PURGATORIO--indicating that redemptive pain has a time value.

[17:38] Beatrice may well be behind Belacqua's final words. Virgil certainly seems to hear an echo of her! And perhaps invokes Ulysses as a final stroke of irony.

[20:40] The structure of PURGATORIO, Canto IV.

[22:54] A vertical reading of INFERNO, Canto IV, and PURGATORIO, Canto IV.

[24:48] A progression in PURGATORIO, Cantos II through IV: Casella, Manfred, Belacqua.

[26:28] Rereading the entire Belacqua sequence: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 97 - 139.

After all that scholastic reasoning, all that discussion of medieval astronomy and geography, all that cogitation on the soul's unity and the sun's position, Dante the pilgrim and Virgil come across a guy who's just hanging out in the shade, trying to escape the noontime heat.

He may be the most famous character of PURGATORIO. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin our exploration of this negligent soul, a character who has captured the imagination of thousands of the COMEDY's readers.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:38] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 97 - 114. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or continue the discussion with me about this passage, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:47] The guy's first response has two curious bits: an emphasis on the "perhaps" and an address only to Dante the pilgrim, not to Virgil.

[06:26] How does this passage relate to Virgil's last words: "I can't say anything else but I do know this much is true"?

[09:37] The figure embodies negligence, perhaps what some medieval scholars called "inactive melancholy" or the "noontime demon."

[11:20] Dante the poet is playing a tricky game since the sin of sloth was not punished in INFERNO (perhaps).

[15:32] The negligent soul seems to offer both the pilgrim Dante AND the reader a way out: what's ahead is tough, so be forewarned before you go on.

Dante the pilgrim continues to rest on the first small ledge that runs around Mount Purgatory. Here, he and Virgil first discuss astronomy--or why the sun is in on his left (or "wrong") in this hemisphere. Virgil seems to end the discussion (in the last episode of this podcast) with a sneer: "If you're smart enough to figure this out."

Indeed, the pilgrim is! In fact, he does Virgil one better. He summarizes the "science" far better than Virgil can. And Dante the pilgrim shifts the discussion to geography, which then Virgil oddly shifts to morality, one-upping the pilgrim to show who's really in charge.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this episode about a passage from PURGATORIO which is perhaps the crystallization of Dante's technique: misdirection as ultimately the way forward.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:27] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 76 - 96. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:14] Dante the pilgrim restates Virgil's argument about the sun's position. Except the pilgrim changes the argument a bit.

[06:41] Is there irony here? Dante the pilgrim is better able to explain the sun's position with a more straightforward restatement of the "science."

[08:16] Dante the pilgrim then shifts the discussion from astronomy to geography. Virgil, then, does him one better and shifts the discussion of geography to morality.

[11:21] Why does Virgil shift the discussion to moral allegory? Because of his wisdom? Or because of his limits?

[13:36] Virgil is forced to admit his ignorance and so takes another drubbing in a string of them in the early cantos of PURGATORIO.

[16:23] Rereading the entire sequence on the first small ledge of Mount Purgatory: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 52 - 96.

Virgil and Dante the pilgrim have completed their first major, breath-taking climb on Mount Purgatory. They hang out for a bit on a ledge for a little rest. In truth, there's no rest with all these mental gymnastics!

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this passage. Dante notices that the sun is shining on the "wrong" side of him and Virgil explains (or imagines or "rationalizes") the sun's position in the southern hemisphere, based on the intricate workings of a geocentric universe.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:50] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 52 - 75. If you'd like to read along, print it off, make notes, or drop a comment to me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:53] How ironic that a passage with so many mental gymnastics is supposed to be restful!

[06:44] In the geocentric universe as Dante understands it, the sun's position is on an ellipse around the globe.

[10:48] Virgil's explanation for the sun's position involves a complicated supposition about the sun's position later in the year, when the sun is in the constellation Gemini.

[13:47] Dante's successful trek across the cosmos is in direct contrast to Phaeton's failed journey across the sky.

[16:47] Let's begin a larger discussion of the Ptolemaic universe--particularly, the beginning of the cracks in that conception in the European late Middle Ages.

Dante the pilgrim leaves Marco of Lombardy behind, but Dante the poet is not yet done with fundamental questions for his poem--particularly, how does he know what he knows? The answer lies in the imagination, the shaky ground that Dante posits is the basis of revelation.

If you'd like to help underwrite the fees for this podcast, please consider donating a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:54] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 1 - 18. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:26] The first canto in COMEDY that opens with a direct address to the reader may help us understand the reader that Dante has in mind for his poem.

[05:50] The smoke of anger becomes a fog and mist, which then becomes clouds, all of which happens as poetic space overlays poetic space in a metaphoric tour de force.

[10:08] Aristotle (and Aquinas) argued that the imagination is only based on sensory input.

[13:09] Dante may well disagree, offering the imagination as a mechanism of revelation.

[17:51] Dante begins to claim that his own poem is divinely inspired.

[20:58] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 1 - 18.

Virgil and Dante leave behind the sheeplike souls that include Manfred to begin their hard climb up Mount Purgatory.

The initial ascent is rough on the pilgrim, climbing on his hands and knees, constantly out of breath. Why do we assume the bad is always easy and the good is always hard? And if the ascent is so hard, what's in it for Virgil?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore these moral quandaries and more in this passage about the first ascent in PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:18] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 19 - 51. If you'd like to print it off, read along, or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:44] How do we know all the souls around Manfred are more of the excommunicated? May some of them be other stragglers? What assumptions does Dante force us to make? And why?

[06:44] Two misdirections in this passage: 1) the pastoral imagery after the scholastic mental gymnastics and 2) a long passage of plot after a passage in which the plot had come to a dead halt.

[09:40] Rustic imagery is some of the residue of the troubadour traditions Dante has inherited.

[12:06] The widening geographical references may indicate Dante's understanding of his widening readership.

[17:17] Virgil becomes Dante's cheerleader. But what's in it for Virgil?

[20:48] Why is the good always hard and the bad always easy?

[23:56] Desire is the key to the passage--and to the climb itself.

[26:47] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 19 - 51.

Manfred's monologue has ended with some shocking conclusions: the excommunicated can indeed end up in heaven, a person can indeed repent at the last second, and the prayers of the living do have an effect on the fate of those in the redeemed part of the afterlife.

But Dante is not done shocking us. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we discover that the moral of Manfred's tale isn't what we thought it was. Wasn't it about the fate of a late-repentant soul? Nope. It was about the unity of the human soul.

This is the first "scientific" disquisition in PURGATORIO. It sets us up for the complications ahead, causing us to realize that even our notion of "plot" was not strictly correct.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:49] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 1 - 18. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment on this episode, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:42] The "scientific" debate among Plato, Aristotle, Aquinas, and Dante on the unity of the soul: the debate's historical roots and its importance for Christian theology.

[18:43] Why does this "scientific" disquisition appear as the opening of PURGATORIO, Canto IV? 1) Because plot is not just action; it is also the development of the intellect. And 2) because Dante the poet surprises us with an alternate conclusion to the ones we might have drawn from Manfred's monologue.

[24:20] Why does PURGATORIO contain so many passages about time? To show us it is a terrestrial, human landscape.

[29:00] Wandering humans in congregation can find the way (although the church does have some power, if not final agency).

[31:32] Rereading this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto IV, lines 1 - 18.

Manfred continues his shocking speech, giving us the details of his body after his death--thereby continuing the theme of the body in PURGATORIO, Canto III; and thereby giving Dante the poet plenty of room for his imagination to run wild.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we learn what happened to Manfred's body after his death at the hands of the French forces at Benevento--and what can happen to Manfred's soul if the living get busy and focus on his trials at the bottom of Purgatory.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:46] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 121 - 145. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:04] Manfred is humbled and admits (vaguely) that the rumors about him may be true.

[06:35] What is the "aspect" of God that the church leaders have misread?

[08:31] What is the historical record of Manfred's death?

[10:37] Why would Dante the poet make up so much of Manfred's story, particularly the story of his body after his death at the hands of the French forces at Benevento?

[14:50] Why "thirtyfold"?

[17:03] What is the role of the living in terms of the dead? Two answers to this question.

[22:08] A structural look at PURGATORIO, Canto III.

[25:10] Rereading the entire Manfred sequence: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 103 - 145.

Dante our pilgrim and his guide, Virgil, have come across a flock of sheep-like souls at the very bottom rung of Mount Purgatory. They've fallen in with them, going in front, when one of these humbled souls steps out and gives the first great monologue of PURGATORIO.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we encounter Manfred, the self-proclaimed King of Sicily and Emperor Frederick II's illegitimate son. This passage is strange and unexpected, about as strange for Dante's audience as the appearance of Cato was for us.

We'll only cover the first "half" of Manfred's speech in this episode. Here are its segments:

[02:22] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 103 - 120. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:14] Who is Manfred?

[09:14] Who is the Empress Constance? And who is Manfred's daughter, mentioned in the passage?

[10:50] The big surprise is that Manfred is not in hell!

[13:12] What is the pilgrim Dante's reaction to Manfred? Why would Manfred (dead in 1266 CE) expect Dante to recognize him?

[17:27] Why does Manfred smile?

[19:49] Why are Manfred's wounds still visible?

[24:40] A structure analysis of the middle part of PURGATORIO, Canto III.

Dante and Virgil have come across a group of souls who are hanging back against the cliff's steep rise. They're like shepherd-less sheep--which may indeed be the secret to living a life of the "quia," the "what is”—yet also the heart of Virgil's despair.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore one of the most famous similes in PURGATORIO and find out how the pilgrim Dante and his guide navigate a new way to be: in congregation, reacting and moving, without truly knowing why.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:36] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 79 - 102. If you'd like to read along, print it off to make notes, or drop a comment about this episode, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:29] A famous pastoral simile from PURGATORIO, a similie that shows us a humble flock without a distinct shepherd.

[06:04] The flock lives in the "quia," the "what is," without a full understanding of the "why"--which is exactly the stance that Virgil exhorted humans to take and that left him in such despair earlier in Canto III.

[10:41] Virgil seems to be trying out a similar spell to one he often used in INFERNO.

[12:36] The flocks seems to accept Dante and Virgil as their leaders.

[15:28] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 79 - 102.

In this episode from Purgatorio, Canto III, we might not see Virgil in his best light. He appears to frighten some souls on the bottom ledge. Then he overplays his hand with flattery. And he ends with a truly bizarre aphorism.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at some of the interpretive problems in this passage, then turn to think about how characters are built in medieval literature and how they are built in modern literature. The differences may help us get our heads around how strange Virgil's character is becoming in PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:50] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 67 - 78. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or even leave a comment about this episode, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:01] Why do the penitent souls hesitate, seemingly in fear, though perhaps just in doubt?

[06:52] Virgil sets in with some (possibly overstated) flattery.

[08:31] Virgil ends his flattery with a banal and almost incomprehensible aphorism.

[12:02] Modern vs. medieval characters: the question of the necessity of a backstory.

[15:20] Modern vs. medieval characters: the rhythms of ambient personality texture.

[18:28] Modern vs. medieval characters: the importance of causality.

[19:37] Medieval characters are built with allegorical intent.

[22:44] Medieval characters are built through established "topoi" (that is, plot tropes, usually with a moral intent).

[26:47] Rereading the entire sequence: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 46 - 78.

Virgil loses the way. Dante finds it. Virgil tries to figure it out. Dante uses the language of revelation. All to make sure Virgil can be the guide again, even when he's clueless about Purgatory.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we watch the irony deepen in this passage from PURGATORIO, Canto III. Dante the poet is playing a wicked game with his characters. And we have to walk slowly to see it.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:16] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 46 -66. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment about this episode, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:17] The pilgrim Dante and his guide, Virgil, have apparently been walking all along beside incredibly rough terrain--which seems to bring out Virgil's sarcastic streak.

[06:55] The clear difference: Virgil looks down; Dante looks up.

[07:41] Dante sees human souls on the left. Many commentators believe Virgil and Dante are still following a hellish (leftward) direction.

[10:16] Dante uses the language of revelation (after Virgil's discussion of the limits of human reason).

[12:05] Virgil gets back on familiar ground as the guide because of Dante's revelation. Who's really the guide here?

Dante the pilgrim has been shocked by his shadow, the only one against the rock. Is he alone? No, Virgil's there, still his comfort.

Or is he? Virgil sets into an explanation for why bodies cast shadows, then gets lost in his own sorrow in one of the most astounding speeches in all of COMEDY.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we tease out the implications for Virgil's rich but very disconcerting reply.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:07] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 22 - 45. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or leave a comment about this episode, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:52] The story of Virgil's death and burial--and thus, of his body, which he lacks.

[07:43] Virgil's bitterness: I'm star stuff but damned; I've got divine reason but I can't figure out the workings of the universe.

[12:57] Virgil's address to all of humanity: a final riddle that seems to negate the incarnation while also celebrating it at the same time.

[19:00] The rhymes in this passage further develop our understanding of Virgil's character.

[21:18] Can Virgil be a comfort for Dante?

[25:06] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 22 - 45.

Virgil has scurried off, apparently ashamed or somehow guilty (the damned can be guilty?) because of Cato's reprimand.

Now it's Dante's turn. As Virgil slows up, Dante first notices the giant mountain beside them--and then sees his own shadow and balks in fear.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I explore this implications of this dramatic and complicated passage in PURGATORIO, Canto III.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:23] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 10 - 21. If you'd like to read along, print them off, or drop a comment, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:35] Virgil's frenzied pace reverses a moment in Limbo and echoes a moment in Inferno, Circle Seven, Ring Three: the running homosexuals.

[06:34] Dante the pilgrim has had no moment when he have seen any shadows--until now.

[08:32] Discovery leads to fear: the familiar emotional progression of COMEDY so far, and one that much now begin to change.

[11:56] Dante's first great neologism (new word) in PURGATORIO: the mountain "unlakes itself."

[14:20] Corporeality is a double-edged problem: the source of the soul's safety and the cause of its alienation.

[19:38] Rereading our passages in PURGATORIO from the beginning of Canto III: lines 1 - 21.

Cato has given his stern reprimand and everyone has scattered for Mount Purgatory. Even Virgil. He's on the run, ashamed.

But why should Virgil be ashamed? What's he done? And what would it matter if he did do something wrong?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through these complicated questions that COMEDY never fully answers. Dante the poet, instead, offers us emotional compensations for the logical flaws in his plot. Are those compensations enough?

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:37] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto III, lines 1 - 9. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:02] The fiction and strategy of COMEDY is to pretend the poem has neither.

[07:11] The divisions between the cantos in PURGATORIO become more permeable--and in some interesting ways both mute and foreground the pilgrim, Dante.

[10:12] The pilgrim Dante's place in COMEDY is changing.

[11:42] Why is Virgil so upset? How did he fail? What does it matter if he failed?

[14:43] Dante the poet "fixes" the problem of Virgil's shame with a plea for compassion. Is that a true "fix"?

We've finished Marco of Lombardy's central discourse about free will, the soul's maturation, and the systemic problems with the world. Now let's look back at the whole speech and talk through some of the larger issues it raises.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at Marco's speech in PURGATORIO in its entirety.

If you'd like to donate to underwrite the many costs of this podcast, whether by a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift, please use this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:28] Rereading all of Marco of Lombardy's speech in my English translation: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 46 - 145. The separate passages of this speech can be found among the former episodes of this podcast.

[07:09] Why is Marco's speech so heavily cribbed?

[09:47] Why is Marco himself an opaque historical figure?

[13:01] Why does Marco's discourse move from personal space to metaphoric space and back to personal space?

[15:16] Is Marco's speech really theological?

[19:43] Who "convened" the laws and leader that Marco wants?

[22:52] Is the point of Marco's speech to give Dante permission to preach about corruption?

We've encountered Cato (twice!), seen souls arrive in an angel's boat, and heard Casella sing, all before everyone scatters toward Mount Purgatory.

What's next? The climb! Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we read through my English translation of cantos 3 and 4 of PURGATORIO. We'll get the story straight before we break the cantos down into smaller chunks to think through what they entail, what they mean, and what they fail to mean.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:26] Reading my English translation of PURGATORIO, Cantos 3 and 4.

[18:31] Four interpretive questions immediately raised by these cantos. First, what can we make of how parallel these cantos are?

[20:26] Second, how does Virgil's character change in these cantos?

[22:04] Third, where are we on Mount Purgatory?

[23:47] Fourth, what's the parallel (or disconnect?) between Manfred and Belacqua?

In this interpolated episode of the podcast WALKING WITH DANTE, let's look at some Biblical passages that may pertain to Purgatory. Medieval theologians used these verses to codify, justify, and elaborate on the brand-new doctrine.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I look at these five texts to find the rationales behind this new doctrine, brought into church theology formally only a few decades before Dante wrote COMEDY (and not fully codified into church doctrine until long after Dante's death). We can truthfully say that Dante's imagination is one of the most competent architects of Purgatory itself.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:30] Psalm 49: 13 - 15 and the problem of Sheol (or perhaps "the pit" or "the grave") and its increasingly complex geography over the course of its conception.

[05:42] II Maccabees 12: 39 - 45 and the notion that the living can indeed do something to aid the dead, even idolators.

[10:39] The Gospel Of Luke 16: 19 - 26 and the question of where exactly the poor man Lazarus goes when he dies and heads off to find comfort near Abraham.

[16:47] I Corinthians 3: 11 - 15 and St Paul's notion that in the resurrection, even the redeemed will judged by fire.

[20:11] Philippians 2: 9 - 11 and the strange, slightly baffling tripartite division of the afterlife.

This interpolated episode of WALKING WITH DANTE takes on a structural analysis of the first two cantos of PURGATORIO--as well as our first vertical reading of COMEDY, comparing INFERNO I and II with PURGATORIO I and II.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin to see the incredible architecture of Dante's masterwork COMEDY.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:47] PURGATORIO, Cantos I and II are bracketed by appearances of Cato.

[03:20] PURGATORIO, Canto I is Virgil's; Canto II is Dante's.

[04:26] The first two cantos of PURGATORIO open with astronomical/astrological references.

[06:02] PURGATORIO gets increasingly crowded over its first two cantos.

[08:25] PURGATORIO's first two cantos are full of hesitations.

[11:11] Let's turn to the question of a "vertical" interpretation of INFERNO I & II and PURGATORIO I & II.

[13:53] In INFERNO I, Virgil appears; in PURGATORIO I, Cato appears.

[16:55] Both INFERNO's and PURGATORIO's openings include a descent.

[19:19] The run rises in first parts of the two canticles.

[20:33] In INFERNO II and PURGATORIO II, we get glimpses of Paradise.

[21:35] For INFERNO I & II and PURGATORIO I & II, there's a chiasmus: Dante - Virgil in INFERNO; Virgil - Dante in PURGATORIO.

[22:40] In INFERNO I & II, the way is clear; in PURGATORIO I & II, it's not.

The souls off the angel's boat, Dante, and Virgil have all been enjoying a nice song on the shores of Purgatory. It's so refreshing, so pastoral . . . until Cato reappears.

His return brings up a host of problems for the end of PURGATORIO, Canto II. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I offer you lots of interpretive possibilities without coming to any firm conclusions . . . because that's the way we'll have the most interpretive fun with the poem.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:46] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 118 - 133. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:11] More about the ways humans can refuse love (according to Dante).

[05:48] The on-going dove "program" in COMEDY--comparing INFERNO, Canto V, with PURGATORIO, Canto II.

[09:54] CONVIVIO's song ends unnaturally and COMEDY's plot lurches back in motion, having been halted for a long while.

[12:42] Five ways to interpret the reappearance of Cato in PURGATORIO, Canto II.

[13:54] One, a reprimand to Dante the poet for abandoning Beatrice for a love of philosophy.

[18:53] Two, a reprimand merely to the souls off the boat, not to Dante.

[21:06] Three, a reference to Moses, the tablets of the law, and the golden calf.

[23:01] Four, a reprimand about delay to both the souls off the boat and to Dante the poet.

[26:02] Five, a ham-handed way to get the plot moving again.

[29:59] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 118 - 133.

Dante has heard Casella's weird story about hanging around back in the land of the living for three months--and not even being able to cross to Purgatory before that.

But Dante the pilgrim wants more. He wants comfort. And he gets it. With his own poetry.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we talk about love, about the ways we resist it, and the ways our resistance may show us at our most human.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:37] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 106 - 117. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:30] The "new law": a possible reference back to Cato's appearance.

[06:23] The "new law": a possible reference to Pope Boniface VIII's Jubilee Year of 1300.

[11:16] Dante, refreshment, and the origins of the doctrine of Purgatory.

[14:36] Casella's song, Dante's poetry, and the sheer relief of being human.

[24:18] A rereading of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 106 - 117.

We've come to the heart of the second story sequence in PURGATORIO, Canto II. Here, Dante tries to hug one of the souls off the angels boat and discovers an old friend, Casella.

Casella has some surprising news about souls, their journey to the afterlife, and his own hesitations. All from a soul we hardly know.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at some of the interpretive knots in this early, crucial episode in PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:24] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 88 - 105. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:15] Who is Casella? Some source evidence, some information from the early commentators, and the problems with all of that.

[08:09] Dating problems in the passage. When did Casella die? How long did he wander around the land of the living?

[12:03] More dating problems in the passage: Pope Boniface VIII's Jubilee Year of 1300 and its plenary indulgences.

[12:57] The ghost story in the passage.

[17:50] Love: the great thematic of PURGATORIO, a part of Dante's historical moment.

[21:53] Why is this passage so murky? Some tentative speculations.

[26:25] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 88 - 105

Dante has certainly been able to interact with all sorts of souls in INFERNO. But now things seem to be changing. He meets a soul on the shore of Purgatory that he can't touch--or even hug.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this short passage from PURGATORIO to begin a long discussion about the changing nature of the body-soul problem in Dante's COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 76 - 87. If you'd like to print it off, read along, or drop a comment, please find this passage on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[02:53] Three human moments in the passage to show we're a long way from INFERNO: brotherly affection, a smile, and redemptive wonder.

[06:14] The importance of the human voice, even in the afterlife.

[07:45] Virgil's masterwork, THE AENEID: still with us, even in PURGATORIO, this far down the road.

[10:36] The body/soul problem: corporeality, animation, rationality, and incarnation.

[20:58] Rereading this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 76 - 87.

We begin the second sequence in PURGATORIO, Canto II, with the souls who've been summarily dumped out of the boat onto the shores of the mountain-island. Where should they go? What should they do? They look to Virgil and Dante for answers--who are both clueless as well.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we talk about pilgrims, pilgrimages, hesitancy, and the road to a new life in this gorgeous passage from Dante's PURGATORIO, the second third of COMEDY.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:05] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 52 - 75. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:22] The first souls in Purgatory are not categorized in any way, reminiscent of the souls who throw themselves into Charon's boat.

[09:07] The second sequence in PURGATORIO, Canto II starts with hesitation, as does the first sequence--but perhaps with a difference. What if hesitancy is the right start toward a new life?

[12:45] Virgil uses the word "pilgrims" for the first time in the poem. Does that mean INFERNO was not part of Dante's pilgrimage?

[16:33] Is Virgil a pilgrim? Can he be?

[21:01] There have been three references to wonder or marvels here and in the previous two cantos, all the way back to INFERNO, Canto XXXIV. Is there a progression here?

[24:18] What news does Dante the pilgrim bring to the shores of Purgatory?

[28:02] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 52 - 75.

We've come to the end of the angel sequence in PURGATORIO, Canto II. The souls arrive on the shores of Purgatory singing a psalm that is unique in the medieval liturgy and that points to important pieces of Dante's developing theology.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this short passage from PURGATORIO, talking about some of its INFERNO references, talking about a garbled line in the text, and reading closely the psalm the souls are singing.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[00:48] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 43 - 51. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[02:00] INFERNO references in the passage: to Charon and (of course!) Ulysses.

[04:44] A garbled line in the passage and a possible explanation for the textual problems here and ahead.

[08:50] A close reading of the psalm the souls are singing as they arrive at Purgatory.

[19:49] A question about the psalm's musicality in medieval liturgy: one of the only known examples of the "tonus peregrinus."

[22:37] Rereading the entire angel sequence: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 13 - 51.

We knew a bright light was approaching fast--but now we find our that it's our first angel in Purgatory, standing at the helm of a ship, following the path Ulysses once took to get here.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the implications of our first angel sighting in PURGATORIO. It's a moment of heavenly triumph. Or would be, were it not for all the questions the angel brings in tow.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:21] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 25 - 42. If you'd like to read along, print off my translation, or drop a comment, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:28] Four infernal characters underneath this passage: first, Phlegyas.

[06:31] Second, Charon.

[07:42] Third, Ulysses.

[09:14] Finally, Francesca.

[11:12] Why are there so many references to INFERNO in the opening two cantos of PURGATORIO? I've got five possible answers.

[17:04] Virgil's position is complicated in this passage. How does he recognize the angel before Dante the pilgrim? And why doesn't Virgil bow down to the angel?

[23:38] Heaven has "officials" because it's a bureaucracy with eternal records.

[26:48] What happens when the truth is too bright?

Marco of Lombardy's time in COMEDY comes to an end with a chatty back-and-forth between him and the pilgrim Dante. Dante wants to compliment Marco on creating such a great argument (the one, that is, that Dante the poet created!) but Marco's only answer seems to be irritation and an abrupt dismissal.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for a fascinating deep dive into the end of PURGATORIO, Canto XVI.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, please consider donating a one-time gift or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:33] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, Lines 130 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:10] The pilgrim Dante disallows land holdings for the papacy, based on Marco's reasoning.

[05:45] PURGATORIO, Canto XVI returns to Torah at its end, offering the argument deep, long-standing ballast.

[08:00] Gaia, Gherardo's daughter, has long been a troubling figure in commentary.

[10:45] What does this conversational coda to Marco's disquisition on free will do for the poem COMEDY as a whole?

[13:23] Why do the penitents work through anger in a lightless smoke?

[16:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 130 - 145.

The pilgrim Dante and his guide, Virgil, may not know where to go next, but their answer may be arriving more quickly than they could imagine. Something incredibly white is approaching--and revealing both the poet Dante's and the pilgrim Dante's slightly disingenuous tone.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look for the arrival of the first angel in PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of the podcast WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:09] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, Lines 13 - 24. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[02:33] Interpreting Mars in the passage: 1) as opposed to Venus in Canto I, 2) as red v. white, and 3) by a passage from Dante's unfinished work, CONVIVIO.

[10:41] "The sea's western edge": another reference to Ulysses (INFERNO XXVI: 29).

[12:08] The appearance of Dante the poet in the passage. Is there a hint of a disingenuous moment?

[13:57] Not a flight of folly but a flight of light.

[14:37] The pilgrim's humanity--once again.

[15:40] Modern notions of perspective and the quality of light.

[16:49] Trinitarian whiteness v. a disingenuous pilgrim.

[19:42] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, Lines 13 - 24.

The sun's coming up. The sky is turning orange. And night is dropping the scales of Libra. Could it get better? Well, yes, the pilgrim Dante and his guide, Virgil, could have a clue about what to do next.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the opening prologue passage for Canto II of PURGATORIO. It's a moment of gorgeous poetry with no forward momentum. In the redeemed part of the afterlife? Apparently so.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:17] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 1 - 12. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[02:27] My confession: too much talk about what's ahead in COMEDY--although such talk may be inevitable.

[05:13] PURGATORIO, Canto II is a mirror image of INFERNO, Canto II.

[06:35] The terrestrial/astronomical opening of PURGATORIO, Canto II.

[11:30] The zodiac skyscape is alive!

[14:33] The globe flips twice in the passage.

[15:18] Hesitancy is the primary thematic of PURGATORIO, Canto II--which may mean Virgil is not the best guide for Purgatory.

[18:14] What is this hesitancy? How can we interpret it? Metapoetics? Human motives? A mistake that's not a sin?

[22:36] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto II, lines 1 - 12.

At the end of PURGATORIO, Canto I, l'd like to stop and start a larger discussion of what Purgatory is. It may surprise you to learn that it's fairly new doctrine in Dante's day--and that our poet is one of the people who actually sets the terms of its theology.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin a much larger discussion, one that will happen over the first nine cantos of PURGATORIO, about what exactly this place is and how it came to be such a crucial part of (some) Christian theology.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:04] Purgatory is new theological territory in Dante's day.

[03:30] Everyone is in transit in PURGATORIO (with one glaring exception).

[06:20] Purgatory is a liminal space--and thus an artistic space.

[10:59] The meaning of pain has changed from punitive to remedial or educative.

[12:22] INFERNO is purgatorial for Dante the poet; PURGATORIO is purgatorial for Dante the pilgrim.

We come to the end of PURGATORIO, Canto I. Cato has disappeared. Virgil and Dante wander around (despite being told exactly what to do). And Dante the pilgrim discovers that he himself can still change in a world where everything else is fixed or permanent.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the final passage in the Canto I of Dante's PURGATORIO, the second third of his masterwork, COMEDY. The poem has so many surprises that it's hard to keep track!

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:30] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto 1, Lines 112 - 136. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:37] Cato's appearance and disappearance is like Jesus's after the resurrection. And there may be other ways they're alike.

[06:19] "Follow my footsteps": a familiar emotional landscape for us readers and for the pilgrim Dante.

[06:47] There are two important moments of descent in COMEDY: one in Inferno I and the second in Purgatorio I.

[11:23] "The vibrations of the ocean": a call-out to THE AENEID, Book VII, lines 6 - 9. In other words, Virgil and his poetry are still our touchstone.

[13:04] Dante's complex emotional landscape: wandering around a bit lost when you're in the redeemed part of the afterlife.

[15:05] What exactly is Virgil's "craft"? Following Cato's directions?

[17:27] Dante the pilgrim is returned to a human state, not a state of innocence.

[19:58] Ulysses appears in Purgatory!

[21:45] In Dante's afterlife, all is permanent, except the pilgrim Dante.

[24:13] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 112 - 136.

Virgil has replied to Cato--and now it's Cato's turn to answer back. This time, Cato doesn't seem so threatening. He seems more willing to help Virgil and Dante. Why could that be?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore Cato's second speech at the opening of PURGATORIO. We'll talk through its implications and see how it opens up the possibilities of redemption this early on in the second third of Dante's masterwork, COMEDY.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:13] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto I, lines 85 - 111. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:40] Did Virgil make a mistake in mentioning Marcia? Or is Virgil even more human in this canticle?

[06:01] Cato most likely was redeemed during Jesus's harrowing of hell.

[09:03] There's a strange Latinate construction at line 87. It feels very much like legalese.

[11:08] Cato addresses his reply to Virgil, thereby accepting Virgil as Dante's guide.

[12:23] Cato's reference to a "smooth rush" may call us back to the wood of the suicides in INFERNO Canto XIII. And his reference to "reclothing" the pilgrim may have a reference to St. Paul's theology in it.

[15:43] Cato indicates that rhetoric won't save them--but their story will.

[18:19] Cato is not the first minister of Purgatory--which leads some to say that Cato is not ultimately redeemed.

[20:16] Pliancy is a prime virtue of PURGATORIO, both for the pilgrim and the reader.

[22:58] Cato warns them off, as the Magi may have been warned off after Jesus's birth.

[25:19] The sun is rising on Easter Sunday morning.

[26:37] Our first glimpse of the mountain ahead of us.

[27:25] The pilgrim stands up--a huge change from his behavior in INFERNO, Canto I.

[28:55] Rereading PURGATORIO Canto I Lines 28 - 111.

Our second episode on this tough passage. Here, we focus on Cato and Marcia, two big problems in the text. Why and how is Cato redeemed? Or is he? And how does Marcia pray for him from Limbo?

In the end, love moves the fence. But not without costs. Not without hairline fractures in Dante's COMEDY. Because moving the fence is always costly. But necessary.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:37] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 49 - 84. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:09] The gatekeeper of Purgatory is Cato the Younger, a Roman Stoic pagan suicide.

[06:07] How do we know this is Cato when Dante never names him? Because of references to Lucan's PHARSALIA and Dante's CONVIVIO.

[08:28] Why doesn't Dante the poet name Cato?

[09:37] Who is Marcia, Cato's wife?

[12:11] Is Marcia truly praying for Cato from Limbo? Four possible answers.

[16:24] Is Cato truly redeemed? Many commentators quibble or just say "no."

[18:53] What does it mean that Cato is redeemed? Motive begins to count as much as action.

[22:19] Augustine's CONFESSIONS may be a structuring device for PURGATORIO: Stoicism, Platonism, Christianity.

[27:59] Cato's place in PURGATORIO heightens Virgil's tragedy and brings hairline fractures to the very structure of COMEDY.

We have come to one of the strangest moments so far in COMEDY: the moment we recognize the lone old man is in fact the Roman pagan Stoic suicide Cato. This moment breaks COMEDY in so many ways that we're going to spend two episodes of the podcast looking at this passage from PURGATORIO.

In this episode, we're going to focus on Virgil and (to a lesser extent) Dante in the passage (thereby saving Cato and his wife Marcia for the next episode). What does this long speech tell us about Virgil's possibly changing place in the poem? What is Dante the poet up to?

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[00:58] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 49 - 84. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:06] Virgil in Purgatory: still a strange idea, although we may (or may not) have been set up for it.

[08:55] The structure of PURGATORIO, Canto I: mostly a conversation between two father figures, Virgil and Cato. But Virgil's presence still causes lots of problems.

[12:17] Making Dante the pilgrim show obeisance: a mistake or a change in the dynamics in the poem?

[17:28] What is Virgil doing when he apparently paraphrases Dante the pilgrim to Cato?

[20:13] Dante's folly is like Pier delle Vigne's and Ulysses'--except Dante's folly happened before COMEDY, not in COMEDY.

[22:28] Humor in the passage, but maybe mean-spirited and at Virgil's expense.

[24:58] Freedom: the guiding principle of PURGATORIO (until we get to Beatrice).

[27:14] The law--that is, how Virgil and Dante got here.

[29:08] Flattery: Does it get the job done?

As Dante the pilgrim gazes at the gorgeous sky, he finds an old man standing next to him, a figure who will startle us (if not the pilgrim) and who will eventually cue us that all is not what it seems in the second third of Dante's COMEDY.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we turn with the pilgrim to PURGATORIO's first great surprise. Let's talk about this old man without identifying him yet--because that's exactly what our text does.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:18] My English translation of this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 28 - 48. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:02] Our first task: The Big Dipper. It's a minor translation problem in the passage.

[04:35] The on-going movement from Dante the pilgrim: turning, not walking.

[06:52] The effects of wonder in this passage have already been noted in INFERNO, Canto XXVIII.

[08:00] Our first vision of the lone, old man, emerging at us from the text.

[08:58] The old man is not immediately identified--and that may be crucial to our seeing the poem correctly.

[12:18] The old man has a paternal quality. Does that make him a potential rival for Virgil?

[13:37] The old man has a long, forked beads, reminiscent of the representation of Moses in the Florentine Baptistry mosaics.

[14:58] The old man is first seen by Dante the pilgrim after he turns to the north.

[15:54] The old man is directly linked to the four stars over the South Pole.

[16:51] There is another old man ("veglio") in the poem: the old man of Crete.

[18:18] The old man's appearance is reminiscent of Jesus's appearance to Mary Magdalene at the garden tomb.

[19:35] The old man seems very keen on the legal niceties.

[21:37] The old man is a blocking figure, like many others we've met in INFERNO.

[22:30] But there's a significant difference: This old man may be open to change.

[23:57] Rereading PURGATORIO, Canto 1, Lines 28 - 48

Dante the poet leads us in a slow turn toward Dante the pilgrim, his "fictional" alter ego, who is looking up at the heavens--that is, at Venus, at four new-to-him stars, and at the gorgeous sapphire color of a predawn sky.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we come to see the emotional complexity Dante has learned to encode in this short passage after the craft developed in the writing of INFERNO. The turn to the pilgrim is a beautiful moment, with resonances of hope and loss throughout--perhaps, then, a most human moment.

This passage of PURGATORIO is also packed with interpretive problems. And you know we love those! So here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:14] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 13 - 27. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment, please find this passage on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:13] Where are we? In a terrestrial poem that yearns for the infinite--with a couple of translation problems right off.

[07:03] We turn to Dante the pilgrim in a moment in which he wonders at the sheer beauty of the sky. (Such a contrast to his responses in INFERNO!)

[08:30] What is the allegory of the sapphire blue? And how do we know our interpretation of that allegory is correct?

[13:27] What is this "gorgeous planet"? It's a representation of love, as Dante tells us. But it's also the potential rehabilitation of the morning star from its traditional interpretation by Christian theologians as a reference to Satan before his fall.

[18:07] However, there's a historical problem for the poetry: Venus was not the morning star in 1300, the year of the pilgrim's journey across the known universe.

[20:39] Check out the emotional movement in the first nine lines of this passage: from beauty to global peace to internal regeneration to the laughter of the cosmos.

[23:09] We see Dante the pilgrim's first physical movement: a turn to the right (that is, to the south). And there's an interpretive problem in these lines: Who are these "first people" he mentions?

[26:53] And while we're at it, what are the four stars Dante the pilgrim sees?

[29:41] The last lines of the passage only make sense if you've read Virgil's explanation in INFERNO.

[31:08] The last lines of the passage also encode a moment of loss, maybe even melancholy. Laughter + loss = human. That's ultimately the equation of (most of) PURGATORIO.

[32:47] I read PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 13 - 27 again.

These are the opening lines of PURGATORIO, in whcih we start, not with the Dante the pilgrim (as we did in INFERNO), but with Dante the poet, who puts his hubris and his doubts on full display.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we slow-walk through the opening lines of the second canticle, the second third, of Dante's masterwork COMEDY. We'll hear the poet state his intentions and hear him cite a bit of orthodox theology as well as some possibly heterodox bits. He'll also invoke the muses, not to guide him, but to follow him, before expressing an implicit warning to himself about the work ahead.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:01] Reading my English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 1 - 12. You can find these lines on my website, markscarbrough.com, where you can also drop comments or ask questions.

[03:01] Dante arrives in PURGATORIO in his own boat, although we know an angel will bring everyone else.

[08:13] PURGATORIO is a terrestrial poem that begins with the Dante the poet--whereas INFERNO was a terrestrial poem that began with the Dante the pilgrim.

[10:24] Dante offers the third invocation to the Muses in COMEDY, now with distinct references to that most Christian doctrine: the resurrection.

[16:39] There's a slight problem with Calliope. For Dante, she may well be the greatest muse, not necessarily "just" the muse of epic poetry.

[18:55] What exactly is this thing Dante calls "deadened poetry" ("morta poesí")? The answer is harder than you may think.

[22:07] The opening twelve lines of PURGATORIO are jam-packed with the poet's hubris.

[26:57] But the poet Dante may also express his fears in these lines.

[29:18] Something to consider before we move on in the poem: INFERNO may well have been purgatory for the Dante the poet.

[30:49] Rereading PURGATORIO, Canto I, Lines 1 - 12.

Marco of Lombardy, the angry penitent, continues his diagnosis of the world's problems. It's got only one sun, not two, as Rome had. And that one sun, the papacy, is not kosher. In fact, perhaps cannot be kosher under any circumstances.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore a big chunk of Marco's reasoning about the world's ills. He said it was in us. But he seems to claim it's more systemic than personal.

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Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:45] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 97 - 129. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:29] The papacy is not--or cannot be--kosher.

[07:36] Pastoral metaphoric space unifies the passage.

[09:30] Our nature is NOT corrupted?

[12:46] The papacy v. the empire: Dante's dilemma.

[18:26] The papacy v. the empire: the dilemma of Dante's age.

[21:17] Marco's argument moves back into personal space: his own Lombardy.

[22:48] Three good men are left on the Italian peninsula.

[26:10] These three good men are in contrast to the gluten Ciacco's two witnesses in INFERNO, Canto VI.

[29:36] The church of Rome isn't in Rome anymore!

[31:44] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 97 - 129.

As I told you in the previous episode of this podcast, we're taking PURGATORIO in chunks, rather than small bits. Or more like, first chunks, then small bits. And here's our first chunk: cantos 1 - 2 in my English translation.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin our exploration of the shores of Purgatory. I'll first read through the first two cantos of the middle canticle from Dante's masterwork, COMEDY.

Then I'll raise some initial interpretive questions--although there will be lots more as we break the cantos down into smaller chunks, starting in the next episode.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:54] Reading PURGATORIO, cantos 1 - 2.

[18:26] Six initial, interpretive questions. One, are we in the same poem as we were in INFERNO?

[20:53] Two, who is this solitary old man?

[22:13] Three, why all the astrological and astronomical references in these cantos?

[23:28] Four, why all the singing in these opening cantos of PURGATORIO?

[24:43] Five, who is Casella?

[25:43] Six, what does Dante the poet know about angels?

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Welcome back! We've been on hiatus for a bit, after we finished INFERNO. (If, that is, you're listening to this podcast IRT.) And now we're ready to start our climb up the next third of the poem: the mountain of purgation, the (perhaps) most human section of Dante's divine masterpiece.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I offer a little introduction to PURGATORIO--not so much to the poem but to our methods in this podcast. I want to tell you how the episodes for PURGATORIO are going to work (different from those for INFERNO). And I want to let you know--in advance!--the five basic ways I interpret (or "read," to use the literary term) this second canticle of COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE, our first on PURGATORIO.

[03:07] The methodology of how we'll walk through (up?) PURGATORIO: chunk, then smaller pieces (rather than the constant smaller pieces we undertook in INFERNO).

[06:15] Take heart: no funny voices in PURGATORIO! But that also means there's a translation issue.

[08:24] My initial five rubrics for interpreting PURGATORIO. First, PURGATORIO is about the perfection of the will and the correction of the intellect.

[11:20] Second, PURGATORIO is moving away from the classical (pagan?) world and more firmly into the Christian world. But that's not an easy move for our poet who so loves his classical learning.

[13:35] Third, PURGATORIO is the most heterodox portion of COMEDY.

[17:12] Fourth, PURGATORIO is a meta-commentary on the writing of INFERNO.

[18:35] Fifth, PURGATORIO is structured by the architecture of the New Testament.

We have come to the end of our slow-walk across Dante's INFERNO, the first third (or so) of his masterpiece, COMEDY. But there are admittedly things we missed. Perhaps you'd like to deepen your understanding of INFERNO? Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for some hints about how to further your study of this first (and most famous) part of Dante's poem.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[00:55] Consider using the medieval Florentine, particularly the rhyme and the rhythm of the original, to unlock new clues to the meaning of passages in INFERNO.

[04:01] Read around among scholars who've covered INFERNO and who offer new perspectives on the poem.

[06:15] Read the original sources for the poem, particularly Virgil's AENEID, Ovid's METAMORPHOSES, and Lucan's PHARSALIA. If you want to get a jump on PURGATORIO, consider reading Statius' THEBIAD.

[07:39] Listen to some of the great music that's been based on Dante's poem.

[08:53] Try out other translations of Dante's poem to further your understanding of his art.

[10:28] To get ready for PURGATORIO, go back and look over the "great sinners" of INFERNO. They're going to be under our feet in many passages in PURGATORIO.