Victors in Grad School – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Navigating graduate school isn't a straight line—it's a journey full of turns, challenges, and unexpected lessons. In the latest episode of "Victors in Grad School," host Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Dr. Rita Fields, a lecturer at the University of Michigan Flint's School of Management, to explore her unconventional, inspiring path through higher education. Whether you're already on your grad school journey, considering taking the leap, or supporting someone who is, this episode is brimming with honesty and actionable wisdom you won't want to miss.

Dr. Rita Fields candidly shares her beginnings as a high school dropout who returned to education, ultimately building a career in human resources and pushing herself to the highest academic levels—including earning a doctorate while juggling executive work and family life. One major theme is perseverance: She discusses the powerful role self-motivation and setting clear boundaries played in her success, especially when life threw unexpected hurdles in her way.

A key takeaway from the episode is the stark contrast between undergraduate, master's, and doctoral studies. Dr. Fields describes graduate school as "straight broth with no water added"—a deep, immersive experience that requires true engagement with your chosen field. Whereas undergraduate education is about finishing what you start and getting well-rounded, graduate studies demand critical analysis and, at the doctoral level, becoming the expert who can teach the topic.

Another highlight is the discussion about burnout and self-doubt. Dr. Fields is refreshingly honest about reaching points where she questioned her ability to go on, and even considered quitting. The key, she says, is being kind to yourself, setting and honoring boundaries, building a support system, and remembering that challenges and stress are inherent in all meaningful pursuits.

Finally, Dr. Fields offers clear advice: take graduate education seriously, resist the urge to just "check the box," and prioritize real learning over simply accumulating credentials. Understand your limits, be honest with yourself about your capacity, and remember—it's okay if your path takes a little longer.

Ready for candid insights, practical tips, and a big dose of inspiration? Listen to the full episode to hear Dr. Rita Fields' journey and discover how you, too, can chart your own successful grad school path—even when it gets tough.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:06]:
experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we are on a journey together. It's really important that you know that this is not a— always a— going to be a linear path. It may be a little bit circuitous. You may end up coming and going and getting different types of educational experiences along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:36]:
But hopefully you've done that work to be able to know what your goal is, and you find ways to be able to hit those benchmarks along the way to be able to help you to keep moving toward the goals that you have set for yourself. Every week I love being able to introduce you to new people with different experiences that have all had their own experiences in graduate school, And they're here to share that experience with you so that you can build some tools for your toolbox to help you in that journey that you're on. Today we got another great guest. Dr. Rita Fields is with us today. And Dr. Fields is a lecturer for— at the University of Michigan Flint. That basically means she's been teaching classes for a bit and she teaches a number of different areas within our School of Management.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:26]:
And I'm really excited to be able to have her here to be able to talk to you about her experiences to have her here on the show this week. Dr. Fields, thanks so much for being here.

Dr. Rita Fields [00:01:38]:
You're so welcome. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]:
I am really excited to be able to have you here and to talk about your own journey. And I know I love starting the show with an opportunity to turn the clock back in time. I know that you did your bachelor's degree down at Marygrove College in Detroit, and I know that at that time you got a Bachelor of Arts in English and Psychology. And then you went out, you got some experience, and along the way, at some point during that time that you were working, getting different experiences, you made a decision. You made a decision that you were going to go back to school and get a graduate degree. Take me back to that point. And what made it the right time, the right place for you to say, now I'm going to go back, I'm going to get that next part of my education? And, and take me back and talk to me about that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:29]:
Yeah, so that's interesting. I don't know if I've ever thought about that time isolated in the way that you just described. But when I decided to go back for my master's degree, I had a son who was 8, maybe? Somewhere along there? When I got my undergrad degree, he turned 5. And so it was about a couple years later-ish. And I had decided that I really appreciated and loved my undergraduate education at Marygrove, absolutely adored it, and that perhaps I should further myself to open more opportunities up for myself and to learn how far I could advance. At that point, I was already within my chosen field of human resources, and so I decided to go back to school to get a master's in human resources. And I was really grateful to do it. I'd read a lot about the program.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:30]:
I understood that there was— and, and came to confirm for myself that there's a huge difference between graduate school and undergrad. So I was really excited to embark on that journey. And it was a— it was good timing for me when I decided to go back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:47]:
Now, I know you just said that you loved your experience as an undergrad, so that probably played into why you decided to get that master's degree at Marygrove College. Were there any other mitigating factors when you were looking at whether you wanted to go back to Marygrove, which is where you ended up deciding to go, or if you were considering other schools? And if so, what were you looking for in a program that you ultimately then decided on attending?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:13]:
So yes, I did decide to stay at Marygrove, and I, I'll be honest, it was really nice. To contemplate getting that advanced degree in an environment that I was always really— always— I was already really comfortable with. So that was a huge selling point for me, that I understood the campus, I understood the way things worked, I knew the services that were available. Because I did have a young child at the time, I also knew that I had the ability to have childcare services if I had evening classes. So there were lots of elements of the campus that were very attractive to me. In terms of the degree program itself, I really wanted a rigorous program that allowed me to delve deeper into the wide expanse of knowledge that is human resources. Human resources is a very broad field, and so I wanted to make sure that I had a program that exposed me to people who were in the field, who were diverse and who would allow me to further my own professional life in such a way that the, the learning of the material would complement my practical application day to day. So I was really fortunate in that way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:39]:
Now, down the road, you finished that degree and then you went and worked some more. You got some other experiences and down the road you said, I'm still not done, I'm going to keep going back. And this time I want to go and get a terminal degree. And I guess bring me back to that point. What was going on in your career? What was going through your head as you were saying to yourself, I'm not done, I want to continue and I want to keep pushing myself forward in this way?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:05]:
So when I decided to go back for my doctorate, I was well into my career at that time. I was an executive actually, and I worked at Henry Ford Health System., and I was about to accept a position to open on the operational team to open their, their new hospital, which was Henry Ford West Bloomfield Hospital. So this was a couple— about a year or so before I went into that process. And I have to tell you, this might sound weird, but the reason I decided to go on to get my doctorate is because I just wanted to see what I could do intellectually. I, I'll bet you don't know this, I was a high school dropout. And so I was someone who— I left school the first day of my 12th grade year and I had a very tumultuous experience, but eventually I went back to school and I learned how incredibly important it was for me to maximize my learning potential and that, that helped me to deal with things that happened in my life that I didn't have any control over. But if I could figure out a way to understand it, if I could figure out a way to wrap my mind around how to procedurally advance in my career and to really delve deeply into what the possibilities were in my mind. I know that might sound weird or super nerdy or both, but that's really what initially made me think about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:40]:
I did take quite a bit of time trying to determine the type of program that I would go into. I knew I did not want a PhD. I know that's— I'm going to get some smoke about that, but I did not want a traditional PhD The thing that drew me to my program was the fact that it was a Doctor of Management, so it's a terminal degree. So it's still a doctorate, but it's not theoretically grounded, it's more grounded in practical application. So I fell in love with the program. I met amazing people. It was a cohort program. It is definitely the most difficult time I've ever had academically.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:22]:
It stretched me into intellectually beyond what I thought I was going to be able to do. And at a couple of points in the very beginning and right before I ended my coursework, I wondered if I was gonna be able to do it. It was just so difficult. I have one textbook that I still remember the COVID and the name of the book to this day. I literally read that book 4 times. I still have no idea what it was talking about. But I— so I got that weird thing that I wanted to get where I wanted to sort of see like, what— how far can I push myself intellectually? I definitely solved that question for myself with that doctorate degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:06]:
So now at every level of education, as you're transitioning into that degree and transitioning through that degree, there are transitions going from being an undergraduate student into a master's degree, a master's degree to a doctorate, the faculty require different things, they expect different things. And as a student, you have to be able to perform, you have to be able to lift yourself up to the level that you're being challenged to be at. So as you are going— as you went through those own— your own transitions for yourself, talk to me about what you had to do as you transitioned into those programs, and what did you have to do— going through the programs to be able to continue and maintain that success throughout the entire journey? And let me put one other caveat on it is because you did two other degrees, how was it different between what you had to do at the master's level and what you had to do at the doctorate level?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:00]:
First of all, I always tell my students that there are differences in the levels of education. So when you go into the undergraduate environment, it's it's really about being able to complete what you start, right? I think that's why a lot more people start undergrad degrees than finish them. Like, dramatically more people start than finish. And so merely finishing a multi-year course is really impressive and somewhat rare, unfortunately. I, I wish it were more common, but it is not because you have to go through remaining committed. The undergrad degree experience is normally much more rich with courses that aren't necessarily tied to your major, but they're supposed to round you out a bit. That's the way that I would describe it. Your master's degree is really like a deep, concentrated deep dive.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:55]:
So it's like, um, it's like straight broth with no water added. It's just undiluted major. So hopefully you like that major. If not, you're really gonna get irritated really, really quickly. And then the master's degree, I try to explain to my students is like— the difference between that and the undergrad degree is that an undergrad degree, you pretty much have to prove that you can take in information and that you have digested that information and give it back in some form. The master's degree, in my experience, is that you're able to take in information, to digest it, and then perhaps to analyze it from different perspectives. Is there a different way to look at this? Is there anything missing from that? The doctorate degree is at the pinnacle of the learning ladder because you not only have to take in the information, analyze it, resource it, you have to go through some type of a vetting process where you make sure that the doctoral level, uh, or the information that you're learning at the doctoral level, is that valid? You have to determine whether or not you are looking at seminal leaders within your particular field and, and what they said, and is there anything that's missing? So it's having to digest information to a point where you could potentially get to the point— well, not even potentially, but you could get to the point, because once you defend your dissertation, you should be an expert at your topic, where you could teach that topic. And when you are able to fully teach, you are able to show the different complexities and nuances that are really inherent in any topic that you want to explore.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:40]:
So I think that— but in terms of your final bit, in terms of how I tried to prepare myself for each level, I think when I went into my master's degree program, I still had the undergraduate mindset. And so I was able to relax a bit because I was— everybody in class was interested in the same master's degree. So there wasn't quite as much diversity in terms of experience. We all sort of worked in the same field. And so it was almost like this really beautiful sense of camaraderie that I got because at the master's level, that's really what that's about. At the doctorate level, it's pretty much like you're on your own. Like, you're— like, let's just say you're this, this— your mom has puppies and the puppies are the other people in your cohort, and she sort of leaves you outside in the storm for like 5 years. That's, that's pretty much what it feels like.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:31]:
You have to figure stuff out yourself No one is going to come and check on you. I remember registering for writing semesters for my doctorate and there were no instructors. I just had to pay to write it, which I thought was absolutely insane. The level of support mechanisms start to diminish a bit because you're moving into this space where you should be more self-directed. And by the time you get to your doctoral level, that's also probably why there are people who are ABD for 25 5 years, which is not something to brag about, by the way. The only time it's great is when you're ABD right before you finish it. After that, it's like, oh, you— so you never finished, huh? So it's really, really hard, and you have to be internally motivated. And so it really taught me how to keep myself on pace and to become even more organized and really respect the journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:30]:
I will say that in my own doctorate experience, I will say that if you're in a doctorate program with a cohort for your coursework, those individuals do become a core group and they do tend to push you along through the coursework and support you. It's after you get out of the main coursework and as Dr. Fields was talking about, you get into that writing, there's a lot more self-push that has to happen. Doesn't mean that your cohort doesn't check in every once in a while because sometimes they will and be like, hey, where's everybody? But that being said, it becomes much more on you. And you and your dissertation chair in having a conversation and being able to set benchmarks and make sure that you keep pushing yourself to meet the benchmarks so that you don't remain, as Dr. Field says, ABD. I always say ABD is all but done, and that's true because it's all but dissertation, but ABD also could mean all but done, and you don't want to end up ABD. You want to end up finished with a degree in hand, especially if you're putting the time and effort in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:37]:
Now, One of the things that I hear from a lot of students as they go— are moving into a master's degree, a doctorate degree, as they go through these degrees, is that there is a point in time where they have self-doubt. There's a point in time where they feel, I'm going to say, imposter syndrome, where they may question and say, am I good enough? Should I be here? Why did they select me? Talk to me about how that self-doubt or imposter syndrome crept into your own experiences. In graduate school? And what did you do? And how did you deal with that as you were going through your own programs?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:10]:
I'm gonna be honest with you, I didn't experience imposter syndrome. And it could be because when I took the GMAT, which was a requirement for my doctoral program, I passed the writing part within the 5th percentile or something, did really, really well with writing, and I bombed pretty much the rest of the thing. I mean, like, I just totally— and I was like, well, you know, hey, we can't all be perfect at everything. And So I was aware of that from the very beginning. I knew I could write. I knew I was very good at reading and context. And I knew that even though my doctorate was a business degree, my master's was a business degree too, but my doctorate was, was much more intensive in, in the business curriculum. So I knew that if I could get past all of the courses in econ and the other deep strategic courses that were part of my doctoral curriculum that I could write my dissertation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:10]:
So I viewed it from that perspective. So I never felt like I didn't belong there. I always felt like I represented the liberal art faction because both of my undergraduate degrees were in liberal arts. I had written so many papers I'd lost count. So I was very comfortable from that vantage point, but I also had members of my cohort who were diehard practitioners, who had been in the business world for a very long time, who maybe didn't read as many books, but they had very different experiences. Where I think I was most challenged in my degree was towards the end. It was probably right before I wrapped up completing all of my coursework, which for those of you who aren't aware— well, in my program anyway, you had to go go through 2 years of coursework, and then I went through 3 years of writing my dissertation. 3 years, y'all, not 3 months.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:08]:
It took 3 full years of writing. But right before I completed my coursework, I was an executive at Henry Ford Health System, and we were opening a hospital, and it was getting really, really tight. There was so much work that goes into that, so many meetings, So many late nights. I happened to be going through a divorce at the same time, which in and of itself is— can be extremely traumatic. It's very tiresome. And I was— I was supposedly wrapping up my coursework, and I remember thinking to myself, I don't know if I can do this. I think I might have to drop out. And I thought about it for a little while, and then I asked myself, would you be okay with yourself in 5 years if you dropped out now? And I wisely answered to myself that I would not be okay if I did that, and then I was gonna do everything that I could.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]:
So I had to really double down on my boundary setting. I had to double down on devoting time to study because we had our qualifying exams, which are these major tests that you get during the doctorate. We had them So my coursework was 2 years. I had one set at the end of the first year and one set at the end of the second year, and they were so difficult. I still remember one of the questions, and the answer to the question was 22 pages handwritten in a book. It was insane. If I told you the question, you would get angry about it. Don't— I think about it, it makes me mad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:40]:
But so I had to buckle down, I had to study it. My doctoral program was the first time I ever really had to to study. I know that sounds like a flex, but it's not cool to find out that you don't know how to study when you're in your doctoral program. Um, other than that, I, you know, I read a lot, and I, you know, I was really good at context. So I, I would have to create ways to force myself to retain lots of information in the midst of all of these professional and personal challenges. So that was the time at which I thought I might drop out. I'm so incredibly grateful that I did not. I pushed through, and it is the only B+ on my doctoral transcript, which, you know, I tell students also all the time, you know, people are so into their grades.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:27]:
I'm like, look, let me tell you something, grades matter, but sometimes you might have a B+— like, that B+ on my transcript is my proudest grade because I was going to quit and I didn't, and I did the absolute very best I could under incredible circumstances. And I pulled out a B+. So I'm good with it. So that, that would be my— but yes, I'm— it's certainly not unusual to feel those types of challenges. And quite frankly, even though I was in a cohort and it was wonderful, and I'm still friends with a lot of the people that were in my cohort to this day, we also had several people drop out. So that's not exactly motivating when you're sitting with a group of 11 people and then 3 of them say, you know what, this is insane, I'm not doing it. You sort of wonder Are they crazy or am I crazy? I mean, so it was, it was, uh, complicated, but thankfully it worked out in the end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:24]:
Now I know that you were working while you were going through these type of programs, and that takes a lot of balance in being able to wear the multiple hats that you wear to be able to be there for the people around you, the friends, the family, and more, as well as to be the employee, the student, et cetera. So talk to me about balance, what you had to do to be able to find that optimal balance, whatever that definition is, and what were some of the things that you had to do to be able to maintain that throughout your different graduate school experiences?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:00]:
Yeah, that's a great question. So I believe very strongly in having boundaries, and I know that's something that a lot of people struggle with. I'm not typically one of those people, and I really learned how to do that in graduate school. When you're— in graduate school and there are so many things, particularly as you get closer to the end. As my students may recall, I often refer to it as senioritis. You think, oh, I'm almost done, like, this is gonna— I'm gonna skate my way through. That's sort of where a lot of people fall off, right? Because they are really close to the end, and you do not want to get that close to the end and then sort of flake out. So I was really good at boundary setting when I graduated with my master's degree is when I got married the first time, and I actually told my fiancé at the time that I was not going to be able to plan our wedding.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:51]:
So if he wanted to get married, he could either wait until I got my master's or he could plan it himself. And so he chose B, which was fine with me. I picked the dress and then I showed up. So I think you have to be honest with people in your life that there are a lot of things going on. You have to Have those boundaries. But I also think it's really important to give yourself periods where you just sort of rest and take a break. You can't just plow through everything and assume that you're a robot. It will not happen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:23]:
Your body will literally shut down on you, and you could get really sick. I actually got sick after each of my qualifying exams, like really sick. And so I became much more aware of building for myself a carrot versus carrots stick system, which in the industry basically means something that you like— which is weird because I hate carrots— versus something that you don't like, like the stick, to like, you know, be somewhat punitive. So I would allow myself to enjoy certain things and give myself a break, and then I would get back to work. So I think it's really important to have a support system in your life where people are going to let you know that you're doing well and that you can continue to do but even if no one does say that, I think it's really important for you to understand that for yourself because at the

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]:
end of the day, you're the one doing the work. You definitely are doing the work and it, it will be challenging as you go through and you'll be pushed in many different ways. And there's times in which you may even have points of burnout where you're, you're chugging along and you're working hard and, and you hit that proverbial wall for yourself. Talk to me about burnout for yourself and how did you avoid burnout or recover from it when you felt overwhelmed?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:44]:
Oh yeah, I definitely experienced burnout. I'm pretty good at managing boundaries, but being able to manage boundaries doesn't inoculate you from having to feel the effects of stress. So I crashed a couple times. I remember at one point during— I'm— the most difficult, well, during my master's degree, I actually had to take a year off from my master's degree because a member of my family had a mental mental health crisis that was incredibly serious, and I was the person that had to manage it, and I simply could not balance everything. So I actually did have to step away. I did come back, but that was very significant because typically master's degrees are 2 years, so that's a long time. And for my doctorate degree, I didn't drop out, but because I had so many things going on, I remember I ended up— I don't want to scare anybody, but I ended up in the the emergency room once. I lost hair.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:48]:
I would sit and my hands would be shaking like I was on a roller coaster ride. I was deeply stressed. And as much as it was uncomfortable, obviously, what I learned from that was how deeply connected my mental state was to my physical state. And that even if in my mind I could write off sort of dealing with things— I had a very high tolerance for the machinations of life— I really still had to take care of my body. I had to make sure I drank enough water. I had to make sure that I slept. I had to make sure that I tried to nurture myself as much as possible. I, I don't know if it's possible to avoid burnout in any situation that is worth having.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:37]:
—right? And so if you think of eustress versus stress, which some have characterized as positive stress, if you get married, you're going to be burnt out. If you have kids, you're going to be burnt out. If you have a dog, you're going to get burnt out. So it makes sense that the things worth having also have an accompanying amount of stress associated with it. I think being kind to yourself and really dedicating yourself towards recovery is the

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:04]:
key to get past it. It is hard, and I'm not saying that to scare anyone off from grad school. There are going to be times that are going to be harder than others, but in anything that is worth doing, there will be times that will be harder than others, whether that's education, your work, your family, your friends, you know, no matter what, as you go through life, you know this, and it is definitely going to be the case in grad school as well. Now, I guess Dr. Fields, as you think back to your graduate experience and you think about others that are thinking about graduate school and you think about success and things that they can do to be successful, what are some tips that you might offer others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:49]:
I think take it seriously. You really need to take it seriously. I am not an advocate of check the box degree accumulation. You want to learn. And as I often also say to my students, I had a dear, cherished professor who said to me once that learning is the attachment of meaning to otherwise useless information. And so that has never failed in being true in my life. And so it's really important to understand that you are supposed to learn this information, um, and that that will help you. It, it will not help you if you don't do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:29]:
And there's so many different ways that people try to cut corners that they just try to push past the learning experience. I can tell you as someone who has hired literally thousands of people in my career, people who are differentiated in the work environment are people who are conscientious about what they do. And so if you apply that to your learning, you can only benefit from that. I am an educated person, not just because I have degrees on the wall, but because I learned the material and that, that exercise of learning, it's one of the most valuable things that I have. And so I would encourage people to do that. I know that might sound very basic, but that is pretty clutch. The other thing that I would do is encourage you to be honest with yourself about your capabilities. I think sometimes people take a lot of classes and they really shouldn't take a lot of classes in that particular term because they've got a lot of stuff going on, and it doesn't go well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:32]:
And you— one could assume that it's not gonna go well if you have like a newborn baby and you decide to take 7 classes. Those things don't tend to mix. So think through what you're capable of doing, and if it takes you a little bit longer, then it takes you a little bit longer. When I was in undergrad, you know, I got my degree in 4 years, my undergrad degree, and that was like the standard. Now I hear that it's 5 to 6 or more, right? I mean, that's for undergrad degree, let alone master's degrees or, or doctoral degrees. And so I think you have to be kind to yourself because being kind to yourself in terms of your true time commitment will make the learning experience an easier, more beneficial one for you as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:15]:
Well, Dr. Fields, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your journey today, for sharing your pieces of advice and everything that shared with our listeners today. I know that this journey, like I said, is not a circu— it's a circuitous path. It is not a straight line. And as you said in yours, you definitely had some curves along the way, but you made it and you were successful. And I appreciate you sharing that journey with us and for helping others to be able to maneuver that path for themselves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:45]:
And I wish you all the best. Thank you so much. And thank you for having me and go blue.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:49]:
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in-person or online learning options, the University of Michigan-Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flintgradoffice@umflint.edu.

Are you considering taking the next big step in your educational journey? Whether you're just starting to think about graduate school or already knee-deep in your studies, the latest episode of "Victors in Grad School" is packed with insights you won't want to miss.

In this episode, Dr. Christopher Lewis sits down with Steven Foster, Director of Financial Aid at the University of Michigan Flint, to discuss what it truly takes to thrive in graduate school. Their lively conversation weaves through Steven's personal journey—from earning his bachelor's in English Language and Literature, jumping straight into the workforce, and then making the pivotal decision to return for his master's in Educational Leadership at Wayne State University.

One major theme is the importance of having a clear motivation for pursuing graduate studies. As Steven Foster shares, his return to school was sparked by an early realization that additional credentials would be crucial for career advancement and personal growth. This combination of upward and social mobility, practical experience, and a passion for educational outreach shaped his path and success (02:16).

Discipline, curiosity, and organization are highlighted as the bedrock skills for anyone navigating graduate school. Steven Foster emphasizes that being disciplined and staying organized are essential, especially when juggling work and academic responsibilities (06:45). He notes, "Being disciplined, being curious, being open… those skill sets are extremely important in your journey."

Another key takeaway is the role of community and support systems. Graduate school can be overwhelming, and imposter syndrome is a common stumbling block. Steven Foster candidly discusses how self-awareness, open communication, and fostering connections with peers and mentors can provide the reassurance and encouragement needed to push through challenging moments (10:30).

Listeners will find practical advice throughout, from evaluating graduate programs and career prospects to leveraging faculty relationships and embracing opportunities for professional and personal development. Steven Foster encourages prospective students to research institutions thoroughly and think beyond just degree requirements—consider how the experience can open doors to consulting, teaching, volunteering, and more (17:03).

If you're seeking inspiration, reassurance, or actionable tips for your graduate school journey, this episode is for you. Tune in and let Steven Foster and Dr. Christopher Lewis guide you through the path to graduate school success—because your journey is uniquely yours, and with the right tools and mindset, you can be victorious too!

Click here to listen and start your journey to grad school success today!

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, we are on a journey together, and I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. You are on a unique journey, something that you are going to be going through, whether you're at the very beginning and just starting to think about graduate school, or maybe you've applied, maybe, maybe you've been accepted. You could be in any of these places, you could even be in graduate school. But throughout all of this, you are on a journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:44]:
And through this journey, there are things that you can do to be able to help you to be successful along the way. And that's why this show exists. Every week I love being able to bring you different pieces of advice, different thoughts, different perspectives, and also different people that have gone before you to be able to give you some perspectives on their own experience going through graduate school. This week we got another great guest. Stephen Foster is with us, and Stephen is the Director of Financial Aid at the University of Michigan Flint. And I'm really excited to be able to have him here to tell you about his own experiences going through graduate school. And to welcome him to the show. Stephen, thanks so much for being here.

Steven Foster [00:01:24]:
Thank you, Kris, for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:25]:
I am really excited to be able to have you. And one of the first things that I love doing is turning the clock back in time, and I want to go back a little ways because I know you did your undergraduate work, and after you went through that experience and got that Bachelor of Arts in English Language and Literature, you went off and got a job. You went off and worked, and you jumped into the world of financial aid.

Steven Foster [00:01:49]:
I did.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:50]:
And you never looked back. But one of One of the things that I want to do is ask you about this point in time, because there was a point in time that you were working, you're out there, but at some point you had this inkling that you needed to go back. You wanted to continue. You had to scratch that itch for going back and getting more education. And I guess bring me back to that point and what made you decide that that was the right time, the right place?

Steven Foster [00:02:16]:
You know, thank you, Kris, and I'm excited to be here just to share some of my experiences. And I did receive my undergrad from University of Michigan, graduated with my master's in educational leadership from Wayne State University. And what really inspired the additional need for education is I knew that at one point in my career I was going to need it for that upward mobility, that social mobility, and having the credential, right, makes it a little bit easier, right, to give you the practical hands-on experience, to give you the theoretical aspect side, educational leadership research, to give you the technical pieces that you need to be a, a successful administrator and leader. So I knew that early on in my career because I actually started my graduate program and my graduate work about 2 to 3 semesters out from my undergrad after graduating. So I knew, I just knew early on that, hey, I need this credential, I'm going to need this credential along the way to help me to advance. And so I went to work during the day, and as soon as I was done at work during the day, I would go right into classes in the evening. And I guess early on it helped me because I still had some level of discipline as a student from my undergraduate experience. So I think that helped me a little bit along.

Steven Foster [00:03:49]:
The way in order to help me to, to push through to my master's to completion.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:54]:
Now, I know you did your master's degree at Wayne State University and you got a Master of Education in Educational Leadership and Administration, and there are a lot of programs that are in the Master of Ed space and you chose Wayne State. So bring me back to that point. And when you were thinking about looking at, you know, pers— all the different prospective universities, what made you decide on Wayne State University? What made it stand out? And talk to me about that process for yourself.

Steven Foster [00:04:23]:
Yes. So I was looking at several programs and I really wanted to go into education. I wanted to go back in— I wanted to go in a K-12 setting. So I actually was looking at master's for teacher certification programs and I was looking at the University of Michigan. I also was looking at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. I looked at Michigan State University and ultimately landed at Wayne State University for actually selfish reasons. It was a tremendous benefit called, uh, educational benefit, and it kind of altered my plans from, uh, going into the classroom and really finding my passion in the higher education side of, of education where I could affect change, where I could help students— be that bridge and bridge that gap to students to promote higher education and to promote education from a different lens, um, besides going into the classroom. So that's what kind of detoured me.

Steven Foster [00:05:29]:
It was actually the benefit of getting my degree paid for, but also I really got a passion for educating students how to think about college affordability, how to think about college finance, and how to plan for college, how to be successful in college and looking at higher ed. From the outreach side of things and being a bridge and being a spokesperson about the many benefits of receiving a higher education degree can bring to students and their families.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:02]:
Now, going from undergrad to grad, you said that it had been a few terms out from when you graduated to when you started. And when you go into a graduate program, there definitely is a transition because it's a different way of being taught, a different— level of expectations by faculty members and a different level of expectation on yourself for what you're trying to achieve. So talk to me about those transitions. And as you transitioned into graduate school and through graduate school, what did you have to do to be able to set yourself up for success? And what did you add to— have to do to be able to maintain that success throughout the graduate school journey?

Steven Foster [00:06:45]:
The biggest thing, or the number one thing that comes to my mind, is being disciplined. Being disciplined, being curious, being, being open. Because when you go undergrad or grad, I think grad is, uh, of course, higher thought processes. It's a lot of reading, it's a lot of theory, it's a lot of hands-on practice. So a combination of all of that, but being disciplined and organized. Those skill sets are extremely important in in your journey, definitely if you're transitioning back into the grad space after you've been out of school a number of years, staying on top of your assignments, staying on top of your reading, asking questions. You know the saying, there's no such thing as a dumb question, right? But having that intellectual curiosity that there are many different paths to ultimately get to where you want to be, but how you actually perceive the world of, of grad school, whatever your discipline is of study. It could be health sciences or education, social work or business, that there is some level of curiosity and exploration in coming to find out where are you the master at? What is your subject matter expertise? What are those things that interest you to where you say, I'm going to be the subject matter expert in this? It just opens your doors for possibilities to so many things.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:12]:
You know, as you talk about that, you know, you're working on a master's degree and there's some internal thought that when you are being admitted into a master's program, you are becoming a master of something, which is sometimes a little dodging when you think about it to be called, eh, I'm the master of nothing. I'm a master of none. I guess when you went into that master's degree and as you're going through this coursework and you're seeing yourself in a different way, talk to me about that transition for yourself as an individual and as a professional and how that graduate degree helped you to either refine or redefine who you were at the time and who you were becoming?

Steven Foster [00:08:53]:
I think for me, and that— I think that's an excellent question. I think that it actually allowed me to refine, but not only refine, it's so many aspects to a master's degree and to graduate education that depending on what class you are taking or depending on what season you are in, in your life and how it benefits you in that moment. So for me, because I was so early on in my career, it allowed me to kind of shape how I wanted to be perceived as a professional. It kind of shaped my modus operandi in order to be an asset and be beneficial to all of the families that I serve and, you know, faculty working with different constituencies in higher education, working— how do you have conversations with Congress versus your faculty? And, you know, dealing with some of the nuances of how do you handle a sensitive student case to a parent that just wants basic information. So it gives you a breadth and a depth in order for you how to be successful, right? And how to apply the knowledge that you acquire.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:00]:
Now, every individual, as they're thinking about graduate school, as they're going through graduate school, ends up hitting a point in time where whether it's you're seeing yourself as a master of something or you are just going through that first course where you feel that imposter syndrome and you go through this process of questioning, "Should I be here? Am I good enough?" All of those different thoughts that go through your head. Talk to me about how imposter syndrome impacted you and what you had to do to get through it.

Steven Foster [00:10:30]:
At points in all of our careers in education, as, as we're matriculating into degree programs, you know, on our jobs and our careers, maybe even in our households, there is always a bit of self-doubt in us. I could have handled that situation better, or how could I have accomplished that in a different manner? So I think that we have imposter syndrome across everything that we do, whether it's a volunteer experience, professional experience, personal experience. But for me, how I really overcame it was through self-awareness. But not also self-awareness, it's really also grasping on to like individuals. So a lot of times you're in classes with the same people. A lot of programs are cohort-based. My program was not necessarily cohort-based, but really having those conversations and building support systems to help you through. Sometimes you have to talk stuff through with a gamut of people.

Steven Foster [00:11:33]:
That could be your classmate, it could be your spouse, it could be your therapist, it could be your faculty your lead, or, you know, your advisor, or those things. So it's those people that help you along the way to be successful, but to also ground you and reel you back in when you need that reassurance. So my word of advice to people is don't be afraid to talk about the challenges that you are having. If you're in a grad program, or if you're in that space that you feel that imposter syndrome, you probably need to get it out, to express yourself, to make you feel a little bit and tackle it head on so that you don't continue to— some people, you know, beat, beat themselves up, not literally, but from that perspective. But talk to someone because someone else is also in your same shoes. And that's what I did. Latched on to some of my classmates, made sure, you know, we had regular conversations, you know, healthy debate about the work, about the assignments, about, you know, some of the challenges that we were experiencing in order to be successful. And, uh, one of the things is I was also— I was somewhat younger than some of my classmates at the time.

Steven Foster [00:12:45]:
I'm a little bit older now, but that wasn't the case when I started my master's program. I was in a class with professionals who had been working 20, 30 years at that point, and they were just starting to come back for their credential, right, for their upward mobility. And here I am, this young, spry kid coming in on the scene, and I'm in these rooms with people people who have double and triple the experience that I have, what am— how can I ever bring the value and knowledge of the experiences that, that they have? So it is a— it can be an overwhelming process, but you just have to get in where you fit in is the perfect way for me to put it. You don't have to try to over, um, outdo or outshine. Based on the little experience that I had, I still was able to contribute to the conversation in a meaningful and way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:40]:
Now, as you think back to the beginning, before you even started graduate school, I'm sure you had some conversations with friends, with colleagues, with others that could give you their own perspectives. And if you think back to that very beginning, what's something that you wish that someone had told you, or that you had known prior to starting graduate school that would have helped you to make that transition even better?

Steven Foster [00:14:02]:
I really do believe that it was just a little bit different for me because I was passionate about education. I was getting— I had hands-on work experience. I was, I was still working and going to school. So it wasn't like I wasn't working and only going to school or went straight through. I was able to apply what I was learning in my actual day-to-day. That made my experience even more successful or more better for me as I was talking to professors and things of that nature. Definitely at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor at the time, you know, and advisors and things of that nature, their thought process was learning experience is, it's an ongoing process, right? That curiosity for exploration and for learning is important. So they, they stress the importance of, if this is the path you want to take, you have to do this, or you have to do that.

Steven Foster [00:14:55]:
So they were actually my biggest cheerleaders in making sure that I was successful in my on-ramp to my grad program.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:02]:
Well, it's always good to have those mentors and those people that help you to maneuver into figure things out along the way. And you also build relationships with faculty along the way as well. Talk to me about those relationships that you were able to build with faculty or with peers inside of your program. And how was that impactful in the experience that you went through?

Steven Foster [00:15:26]:
My relationship with my faculty advisor was, was tremendous because I was able to meet with them on a regular basis and have thoughtful conversation about what is it that I can do with this credential, what What paths make sense for me from a career perspective? What are the different things that I can do outside of my career? You know, what, what does it mean to go in consulting? I always think that ultimately I wanted to go and be a professor. I have started a PhD a while ago and opportunity came along and I put that on pause, but it's always the, the opportunity for them to share their experiences and based on the skills assets that you have, them to kind of guide you through some of those things. And that's what I'll always appreciate about definitely some of the faculty that I have connected with on a basis as a student, that they are always trying to get the best out of you, whatever that is for you as an individual. It's not, you know, they're not selling anything, they're not selling you any fairy dust and unicorns or anything like that, but they're trying to get the best out of their students. And that was the experience that I had.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:42]:
And I guess finally, as you look back on your own experience, you were successful in the journey that you went through. And as you think back, I guess, to the entire experience and you look at where you are today and you think about people that are thinking about going to graduate school for themselves, what are some tips that you might offer others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner?

Steven Foster [00:17:03]:
Some tips is research your institutions. Research your programs, look at the viable career paths that you want to go into, and look at the plan B or look at the— what's the side hustle that I can do from this degree that will produce additional streams of revenue, additional income based on the degree that you do have? Opportunities for consulting, opportunities for part-time or work from home opportunities from whatever the deal degree program is because for me, graduate education, it opens the door even more to more possibilities than your bachelor's degree a lot of times. And that upward mobility and that social mobility is very important for our students that we serve. So you want to make sure that this is something that you're truly passionate about, but that it opens other doors and opportunities for you to get the best well-rounded experiences that you need in order to be successful, maybe in your main career. But there are also branches that shoot off from that main career— speaking engagement, teaching opportunities, professorships, consulting opportunities, volunteer opportunities on boards and different things of that nature in order to help nonprofits and stuff grow depending on whatever your discipline is. So you're volunteer, you're professional. Experience, your community experience, all of that makes you a well-rounded person. And it gives us a personal ethos for us to be change agents in that you are in the world to shed your light and shed your experience in whatever direction that is and works best for you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:45]:
Well, Stephen, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today. And, you know, I'm going to continue to encourage you now that I know that you started a PhD to keep going. I'm looking— not to stop out, but always keep going, always keep pursuing, and don't, and don't give up.

Steven Foster [00:19:01]:
Absolutely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:02]:
So that being said, I thank you for your time today, and I wish you all the best.

Steven Foster [00:19:06]:
Thank you, Dr. Lewis. I appreciate you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:08]:
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in-person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flintgradoffice@umflint.edu.

Are you considering graduate school or seeking inspiration for your academic journey? This week's episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast is a must-listen. Hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan-Flint, the show features a rich conversation with Dr. George White, Professor of Strategic Management and Director of the Doctorate in Business Administration Program at UM-Flint.

The episode opens with Dr. George White sharing his unique educational path, beginning as the first in his family to attend college. Coming from a rural, modest background, his story starts with working night shifts and attending a community college in Alabama. He highlights how determination and hard work paved his way to the University of Alabama and later, a life-changing exposure to Asian history and culture.

A key theme of the podcast is the role of inspiration and mentorship. Dr. George White recalls the professors who encouraged his academic curiosity and opened doors to opportunities abroad, including studying in Taiwan and teaching English in Asia. This global perspective led him to pursue a law degree, and later, an LLM in International Commercial Law.

Throughout the interview, listeners hear about the importance of having a clear plan and passion for your studies. Dr. George White emphasizes that success in graduate school isn't about being the smartest person in the room — it's about hard work, dedication, and being genuinely excited about what you're learning. He also opens up about his experiences consulting and teaching in China, which inspired him to further pursue an MBA and a PhD in International Business.

The episode is filled with actionable advice for prospective graduate students: develop a five- or ten-year plan, engage with your professors, and choose a program that aligns with your interests and career goals. Time management and perseverance are repeatedly highlighted as essential ingredients for success.

If you're seeking inspiration from someone who's charted a truly international, interdisciplinary career — leveraging degrees in history, law, and business — this episode is sure to motivate you. Tune in to "Victors in Grad School" and learn how passion, planning, and relentless hard work can help you thrive on the path to academic and professional achievement.

Ready to be inspired? Listen now and prepare to embark on your own journey as a victor in grad school!

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Victors in Grad School.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:03]:
Where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week we have an opportunity. We have an opportunity to work together to help you define success in this journey that you're on. And it is a journey. Every person that is thinking about graduate school, that is in graduate school, has a unique journey that you will follow for yourself as you move forward and through that experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:42]:
And though it may be unique, there are commonalities that most every person goes through as they go through that graduate school journey that you can start planning for right now. And that's what this podcast is all about. It's all about helping you to find ways to be able to be successful in this journey and find tips, tactics, et cetera, things that can help you to find success sooner. That's why every week I love being able to have different people, new people on, to share their own experience. And today we have another great guest. Dr. George White is with us. And George is a professor at the University of Michigan, Flint.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:24]:
He's a professor of Strategic Management and the director of the Doctorate in Business Administration Program here at the University of Michigan, Flint. And he's at a unique path through his own education that has led him to where he is today. So we're going to be talking to him about his own journey. George, thanks so much for being here today.

Dr. George White [00:01:40]:
Hi, Chris. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:41]:
Well, I really am excited to have you here today, and I know that your journey has been one that is unique, and you have had many curves along the path. So I want to take you back in time. And I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of Alabama and you got a Bachelor of Arts degree in history. And at some point, either in your undergraduate work or after, when you started working and getting some experience, you made a decision to go back to graduate school and to get a law degree. And I'm really interested, first and foremost, for us to talk about this. And then I know you went beyond that, but bring me back to the point in which you determined for yourself that graduate school was the next step. What was going through your head?

Dr. George White [00:02:25]:
Yeah, so, oh, boy, it's very long journey for me. What happened was I'm essentially the very first kid in my immediate family to go to college. So I started off in community College at a very nice community college in Hanceville, Alabama, near Coleman, Alabama, called Hanceville Community College. And so I went there part time. I worked full time like many of the students here at um, Flint do anyhow, and actually work night shift and at a technology company producing chipboards. And then that company was paying for my education, so I would go to school during the day. So I'd get up at like 6 in the morning, study, go to school, maybe study some more, hop in the car, go work and repeat that. And I wasn't sleeping a whole lot during that time.

Dr. George White [00:03:14]:
So that sort of was my gateway into college. And just going to community college was an eye opener for me. But what happened was at a certain point I decided I wanted to be a full time student. After going through the grind of working and trying to do that and go to school part time, my family told me I could go full time to school if I wanted to do that. So I'll never forget when I applied to be accepted in the University of Alabama. When I got that acceptance letter, it was a big deal because I grew up in a very rural part of Alabama and actually was raised on a chicken farm in East Texas. So basically a farming family wasn't exposed that much to higher education. And here I am going off to the University of Alabama.

Dr. George White [00:03:55]:
My first year at Alabama, I just took classes in general. I was a history major. But what happened my senior year, I took a few courses in Asian history. I'll never forget. I took a course by a professor, his name was Lee Butler, he's actually a graduate from University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, who was a professor in the history department there. And it was on Japanese culture and coming from basically the backwoods of Alabama, you know, being a Southern redneck that really taking that course, we read books on architecture in Japan. We learned about aikabuno, you know, flower arranging, sumo wrestling. That class really was, was my first point of entry into learning about the rest of the world.

Dr. George White [00:04:36]:
And then I took another course from a professor who became my mentor, named Dr. Ronald Roble, on Korean history. And I knew nothing about Korea until I took that course. And these were during my senior year at Alabama. So what happened was I became very fascinated by Asia and just the rest of the world in general. And Dr. Robol, who I got to know quite well. I worked very hard, tried to do well in his course.

Dr. George White [00:05:01]:
He basically encouraged me to stay at Alabama and become a graduate student there. He was the director of their Asian studies program. And so I stayed there, worked under him became as a teaching assistant in the classes he was teaching and took classes in Asian studies and started studying Chinese language. Then what happened was I ended up receiving a scholarship to go study Chinese at Fengji University, which is in Taichung, Taiwan. And I did that for about a year. And studying abroad was very interesting to me. I learned quite a bit. But what I really enjoyed was going out.

Dr. George White [00:05:34]:
And there's lots of opportunities in Taiwan that teach English as a second language. You can actually make a lot of money doing that. So I started doing quite a bit of that. I taught at a night school in Taichung, and then I taught at a private kindergarten in the morning and was making a lot of money. I had, like, a little penthouse I was renting in downtown Taichung. And it was a really good life. And what happened was I was there on the scholarship, but one of my employers wanted me to essentially convert my visa status from a student to, like, a working visa. So to make a very long story short, I ended up traveling abroad to the Philippines.

Dr. George White [00:06:10]:
Bumped into my wife the first day I was in the Philippines. Left the Philippines, went back to Taiwan, realized it's going to be very difficult to get her to Taiwan because of the immigration policy. So I basically moved to the Philippines. I'd saved up a lot of money. I had this little desk in my room of the apartment I was renting. I used to shove all of my cash in that drawer. I didn't even have a bank account there. And I remember just taking all that money I'd made and I moved to the Philippines.

Dr. George White [00:06:38]:
And basically I became a beach bum in the Philippines for a little while. So got married to my wife. That's what triggered, you know, when I was in the Philippines, I'm like, I have to do something with my life, you know, I mean, who's going to hire somebody with a bachelor's degree in Asian history? And I wanted to continue on. I was very interested in learning. I enjoyed the university environment, and I wanted to continue with my education. So I wasn't good at math at that point. I haven't even thought about business. So I did what a lot of individuals do that are more qualitatively experienced and have skill sets in that area.

Dr. George White [00:07:11]:
I applied to law school, and my LSAT score for law school wasn't really that great. So there's a school here in Michigan called Cooley Law School in Lansing, which sort of has a very different admissions policy than most other law schools. They usually. They bring in a lot of students, but then they weed them out. You know, it's a very rigorous law school to go through. And what happened was they. They brought. I got accepted to Coley Law School.

Dr. George White [00:07:37]:
And that was my. My only opportunity at that point in time. Listed at some other law schools like Syracuse and other universities, because I had interesting background. But I ended up going to Cooley and I studied as a law student there and I concentrated in international law because that was at that point in time, I knew I wanted to do something international in nature. Then what happened was, in law school, I was on the journal, the editorial board for the Cooley Law Journal, which is sort of a prestigious thing in law school. And you get to learn how to edit, and it's research oriented. There was a summer course called Scholarly Writing that I took as an elective course. And I took that course and I wrote a paper and the paper was on trade in Southeast Asia.

Dr. George White [00:08:24]:
And I took the paper after I was finished with the class. I did very well in there because it was very interesting to me. I loved to do research and writing. So I was very intrinsically motivated. And when I went through that class, I knew it was something I really enjoyed. And what happened was I took that paper that I wrote for that class and I got it published in an international law journal. And I knew at that time, this is something I can do, and it's something I love to do. And so then one law degree wasn't enough.

Dr. George White [00:08:51]:
So I went and actually I went to Emory Law School and worked on an LLM, an advanced law degree in International Commercial Law. And then what happened was, when I was at Emory, this is right around the time when China was joining the WTO, back around 2000, 2001, I did not feel like I'd finished what I had started out to do in Taiwan. So I wanted to get back to Asia and sort of finish what I started there. So I started looking around for jobs to teach law in China. And one thing led to another and a major university hired me to go over to China and spend a year there. I ended up spending two years there, but they hired me to go there and to teach international law as a visiting professor. And that's how it all started. Going back to my bachelor's degree, I found something very fascinating and I wanted to continue with that.

Dr. George White [00:09:41]:
I really enjoyed learning. I enjoyed the university environment, and I was fascinated by Asia and just international stuff, and I wanted to keep continuing down that path. And then when I got the law school and I took this course on scholarly writing where I could Bring my passion into that. That's what really triggered everything for me. And I knew that's what I wanted to do moving forward with my career.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:04]:
Now a law degree is a terminal degree. You went on and got an LLM, but then a few years later you decided to keep going and getting both an MBA as well as then going and getting a PhD, another terminal degree.

Dr. George White [00:10:19]:
I got my MBA at the same time as I was working on my PhD, which is sort of rare.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:24]:
So talk to me about that and what made you decide that you wanted to continue your education to get those additional degrees beyond the terminal degrees you already had? Yeah.

Dr. George White [00:10:34]:
Okay. So very practical. I was in China at the time, you know, I, I accepted that gig to go and teach at Habenomy University again. It was right around the time when China was opening up to the rest of the world. They were much more free market oriented than they currently are. I mean, they were following the Deng Xiaoping framework of opening up and trying to develop relationship with the Western world. So there were lots of opportunities at the time for foreigners with backgrounds like myself and interests like myself to consult and do things. So what happened was I was not in Beijing or Shanghai.

Dr. George White [00:11:10]:
I was in a secondary city, a little town of only 8 million people called Shijiazhuang, which is just south of Beijing. And there were lots of opportunities because of my unique background and skillset. So I started consulting and I was consulting with law firms as a foreign expert. And then I ended up being approached by development zones to consult with them and help act as a liaison between the Chinese government and foreign companies that were coming in and investing in China. And I started basically backed into doing a lot of business consulting. And at that time I did not have any formal business background or education whatsoever. I was learning by doing, essentially. So I had a friend that was a former professor of mine at Thomas Cooley at Cooley Law School.

Dr. George White [00:11:54]:
At that time he had moved to University of Miami, but we stayed in touch. And so about once a month he would contact me and we would talk because he was doing a lot of research on China and then I was doing research on China. So he would call me up about once a month and we would chat. And I told him, you know what, I'm doing all this consulting now in China and I don't have this formal education, so I feel like I need to go and get an MBA or something. And at that time I had already started publishing a good bit. And he goes, george, George, you ought to think about going and obtaining a Ph.D. you know, joining a Ph.D. program in international business.

Dr. George White [00:12:28]:
International business, really? He goes, yes, all your research is related to international business, because I've been publishing quite a bit on international trade, foreign direct investment, and different issues related to companies operating in Asia. So I'll never forget I studied for the GMAT, which is the entrance examination for MBAs and most business graduate degrees. I studied in a library in northern China during the winter, like the winter we have right here in Michigan where there is no heat. I'll never forget that. And I actually took the GMAT in Beijing, China. And then I applied to some PhD programs and there was this new doctoral program that had just started up in international business at University of Texas at El Paso. And they accepted me. I'll never forget, forget when I received the letter and they actually called me when I was in China.

Dr. George White [00:13:17]:
When that happened, it changed my life. And so I ended up going off to spent two years in China. And after that I transitioned into the PhD program at UT El Paso, where I also earned my MBA as a general MBA in management. It was an extension of what I was already doing. I mean, I had started doing a lot of business consulting in mainland China, and I had no formal background or education. And so I was interested in learning and getting some formal education in business administration. And I ended up going and working on my PhD and then also my MBA. And to this very day, 20 years later, I'm still using leveraging my legal background and my interest in Asia in my research and what I teach and do here at Michigan Flint.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:01]:
Now, with every degree, when you transition into those degrees, there is a transition because the way in which you're educated at the bachelor's level is different than at the master's level, is different than in law school, is different than in a PhD. Every type of school is a little bit different. Every type of academic area is going to be a little bit different. So talk to me about some of the things that you learned as you made those transitions through the different degrees that you went into and what you had to do to be able to first transition into graduate school. And what did you have to do to continue throughout the entire graduate school experience to maintain that success?

Dr. George White [00:14:42]:
Yeah, I mean, and this is something I talk to. I'm the director of our doctoral program here at the School of Management at Michigan Flint. So I'm always talking to students about this on a regular basis. You know, I think you need to have a plan. You know, I think it's the first thing you need to really have a Plan. I think the most successful students. What made me successful, I had a passion for what I wanted to do. I mean, I knew what I wanted to do and I was determined to do it no matter what.

Dr. George White [00:15:07]:
Okay, second thing, you need to have a plan. You need to have like a 5 and 10 year plan. Why am I doing this? How is this going to get me from point A to point B? And then what am I going to do? And you got to be very proactive and dedicated. I mean, for example, in all of my courses, I remember my doctoral program, my doctoral program in the law school as well, pretty much all my courses. And I was never the smartest student in any of those classes. And I'm definitely not the smartest faculty member here at the School of management neither. But one thing I can say, I worked very hard. On Fridays, I would be up studying, working on Saturdays.

Dr. George White [00:15:41]:
Whatever I had to do to be successful, I would make that happen. So I was very proactive. All the faculty knew me very well in all the programs. Starting my bachelor's all the way through, I was very proactive, interacting with the faculty members, making sure I'm doing the right thing in the classes. How can I improve what I'm doing? I was very interested in learning and I had a passion for what I was working on and a plan of why am I doing what I'm doing? Okay, I think that's very important. Also, just generally, you need to be excited about what you're working on. You know, when you select a graduate degree, I mean, I understand the practicality of choosing something that's going to help you to get from point A to point B, whether it's getting a promotion or, or moving in a new area, whatever that is. But you got to have some passion for what you're doing.

Dr. George White [00:16:25]:
I mean, at the end of the day, it's a grind. Graduate school is not easy. You got to be dedicated. It takes a lot of time and effort. You're paying a lot of money for whatever degree it is, and you got to be able to wake up in the morning and be motivated or it's just going to be much more difficult for you to be successful. So that's really what made me like, I did not enjoy law school. I did not have any fun in law school. Right.

Dr. George White [00:16:48]:
That's why I'm not a law professor. But, but I did enjoy some of the subjects that the law school had to offer, and I gravitated towards those and that's what helped me get through it. For example, like the other Graduate degrees were very different. I really had more passion for them. But at the end of the day, you got to have a passion for what you're doing. I mean, life is too short to be miserable and you got to have a plan. I think just throwing yourself into a degree program with not having a clear vision of what you plan to do, I don't think is really the right approach.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:17]:
I know you are a faculty member, you are a administrator. You've worked in higher education now for a number of years here at the University of Michigan, Flint. And I guess as you think back to the education that you received in all the different facets of the education, talk to me about how those different degrees and the different experiences that you've had have helped you to do the work that you're doing on a daily basis.

Dr. George White [00:17:40]:
That's a complex question. First of all, I feel very blessed. Position I'm in is I've worked well. My wife has to remind me that I work very hard to get where I'm at. There's this old saying, you need to run scared to be successful. And I've been running scared, meaning I've been working very hard, never thinking I'm doing enough. How can I constantly improve what I'm doing? I've been doing that for a very long time and I'm still doing it to today, even though I'm a full professor and directing a doctoral program, etc. Etc.

Dr. George White [00:18:08]:
But for me, I get this question a lot from various individuals, students in our program. Individuals are out in industry. You know, you have a law degree and you have a bachelor's in history. You know how in the world you become a professor of business. For me, it all sort of fits together. For example, my research today is on how companies strategize, you know, develop in and execute strategy in Asia. And I look at that from a legal perspective, I've sort of become like an expert in the international business and strategic management community on how the legal environment has an influence on foreign companies, multinationals operating in Asia. So I have really worked hard to try to leverage my interest and background in Asia.

Dr. George White [00:18:53]:
I go over the Asia quite a bit. You know, I mean, I. I'm a visiting professor in the Philippines and also in. In Thailand right now. And I go over there quite a bit and give seminars and talks and do research there. But so I have that from my. All the way back from my bachelor's days 30 years ago. And then my legal degree, although I'm not a lawyer right now, I use that in My research, all my research focuses on how the legal environment influences multinational strategies in Asia.

Dr. George White [00:19:20]:
And so I try to bring all of that education together in bring these insights into my class, classes that I teach. I consult on the side a little bit in Asia, doing that type of stuff. And then my research is all focused on that. But at the end of the day, I think that for anybody that has sort of a unique background, you should try and leverage that, especially if you're interested in that type of work and because that's what's going to make you unique and provide possible opportunities moving forward.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:50]:
Now I know you talk to a lot of graduate students and you work with students that are coming into your Doctorate of Business Administration program, but you have your own experiences as well. And I guess as you look back at your own experiences, not only personally, but also experiences in working with other graduate students and you think about other students that are thinking about graduate school, whether it be in business, law or some other field. What are some tips that you might want to offer other students considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner?

Dr. George White [00:20:22]:
I grew up in a very poor family. I remember my mom, she worked as a waitress at Pizza Hut. This is back when Pizza Hut was actually really good, when people would go and eat in the Pizza Hut and she used to wait tables and she had this big jar in her room that she would dump her change in from her tips. I'll never forget that we had to live with my grandparents, you know, and she put herself through nursing school. And then when I was in high school, she was working like two or three jobs. I never saw my mom because she was trying to provide for us. And then most of the rest of my family were entrepreneurial, that self made had their own companies. And so I learned from that that hard work is essential to success.

Dr. George White [00:20:59]:
And so again, going back to what I mention mentioned earlier, I've always worked very hard and because if you work hard, things will come to you. It might not be the easiest path, but there's no substitute for hard work. And hard work will provide you with opportunities at the end of the day. So I just wanted to go back to that tips again. I think you have to have a passion for what you're when you go to graduate school. And I do see this a lot. I see a lot of students coming in. I teach in our MBA program and I see a lot of students coming in our MBA program that are just in the MBA to get the mba.

Dr. George White [00:21:33]:
Okay, now of course that's up to them. That, that's what they want to do. But I've noticed the students that have a passion for learning and are interested in like the concepts, ideas, theories we're talking about in our classes that go beyond just getting the degree, they tend to enjoy the process and the journey that they're on a lot more than those that don't. So, I mean, I think it's important for you to find a program that you're interested in. You're going to be excited about taking the class classes in and so forth. Also, again, there's not a replacement for hard work. And this goes back to my discussing all this earlier. I've never been the smartest in any of my classes, but I'm a grinder, you know, I've had to grind things out.

Dr. George White [00:22:14]:
But at the end of the day, you will get to where you want to be if you put in the effort and you work hard and do your very best in your classes and in the program. So I think that's very important. Also, I think most students these days, or most students are not full time, but a lot of them are working jobs and so forth. You got to be able to manage and schedule things properly. You know, I think time management these days has become more important than ever before. And so being able to develop process you have for yourself, you know, like a schedule for yourself when you do get into the program will definitely help because it will keep you sort of segmented to where you can balance out how you get through the program week to week. So that would sort of be my advice. But I mean, the big thing is you got to really be excited about what you're planning to go into.

Dr. George White [00:23:02]:
And that will. That will, I think, make it to where you will get through the program a lot easier and you'll learn a lot more at the end of the day.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:09]:
Well, George, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today. I know there's a lot more to it, but you shared some amazing tips and thoughts on kind of the journey that you took, but also things that people can do. And I truly wish you all the best.

Dr. George White [00:23:22]:
Thank you, Chris. I appreciate the opportunity and thank you very much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:26]:
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at Flintgrad office at umflint. Eduardo.

Embarking on the Journey

Graduate school acts as a beacon for those seeking to elevate their academic prowess and career trajectory. In our latest 'Dads with Daughters' episode, Victor's in Grad School, Dr. Christopher Lewis sheds light on what it takes to navigate this crucial phase with the poise of a seasoned scholar. From the higher salaries and advancement opportunities that often follow an advanced degree to the intrinsic reward of mastering your chosen field, the pursuit of graduate education is filled with both promise and challenge. 

Charting the Course

Success in grad school goes beyond intellectual capacity; it is about nurturing the characteristics that define graduate-level scholars. Preparedness for academic rigors, a comprehensive understanding of the graduate vs. undergraduate landscape, and adopting a collaborative mindset are pivotal. Graduate education is a different ballgame—larger in scope and depth—demanding a more proactive and engaging effort from its participants.

Managing Time, Maximizing Potential

Time management is at the heart of a graduate student's success. Critical tools such as Google Task and Google Calendar can serve as lifelines in a sea of deadlines and commitments. But thriving in grad school isn't just about keeping a calendar; it's about resilience and adaptability. With the right environment and the right tools, challenges become mere stepping-stones on your path to academic and professional excellence.

Fostering Academic Relationships

The relationship with faculty can break or make a graduate experience. Securing a faculty mentor and approaching initial meetings with well-thought-out questions and clear goals can forge connections that not only enhance learning but also open doors to career opportunities. This mentorship extends beyond the classroom, offering insights and support in navigating the often complex terrain of graduate research and career planning.

Career and Personal Development

Leveraging campus resources like career services is crucial. Small actions, such as checking campus email regularly, joining student organizations, and attending networking events, compound over time, laying the foundation for a robust professional network and a well-rounded personal development arsenal.

Financial Strategy

Dr. Lewis doesn't skirt around the financial implications of grad school. He stresses the importance of being proactive in seeking out financial support through FAFSA, scholarships, and graduate assistantships. Sound financial planning includes budgeting wisely, establishing good credit, exploring loan options, and considering part-time employment to manage the fiscal responsibility of graduate education.

Tapping into University Resources

Our episode highlights resources at institutions like the University of Michigan Flint, where aspirants can find a trove of information from the graduate programs page to in-depth podcasts, inquiry forms, and personalized assistance from the Graduate Office. These resources are instrumental in helping prospective students chart their graduate school journey. 

Conclusion

The road to graduate school success is paved with preparation, adaptability, and a robust support network. As Dr. Lewis emphasizes, the journey is not only about achieving academic accolades but also about personal growth and finding joy in the pursuit of knowledge. Engaging with the content of the 'Victor's in Grad School' episode offers a blueprint for incoming graduate students to approach their studies with strategy, resourcefulness, and resilience.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Good morning. Thank you so much for being here today. My My name is doctor Christopher Lewis. I am the director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you here today, and and I really appreciate you being, interested in this topic and interested in being a part of this graduate school journey. Today, we're gonna be talking about graduate school success and what you can do to be able to find success in that journey that you're on. It is definitely a journey and something that every person has to go through that is going to be a little bit unique to each and every one of you. But today, I'm hoping to be able to share some things, some things that you can think about, some things that you can start to prepare for So that when you do make that transition into graduate school, it's not so foreign, but also that you can start things on the right foot and start moving in the right direction right from the moment that you start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:10]:
Feel free today to use the chat to be able to Ask any questions that you might have, and and we'll have some time at the end as well. I did ask that everybody Please go to the participant tab, click on the 3 dots next to your name, and update Your name to have your full name there so that we can send out the code to you afterwards for the free application. I would really appreciate if you can take the time to do that. And if you can't do that, just go ahead and add in the chat your name and we can and I can add it then. Okay. So why don't we get started? And I see people In the chat already using it, that's great. I'm so glad that you're using that. Feel free to definitely introduce yourself, ask your questions, And put things in there, and then we'll answer other questions at the end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]:
K. So let's Start jump in and start talking about graduate school success. Here's some of the things that we're gonna be talking about today. Excited to be able to chat with you and to be able to talk to you About all of these different things. But first and foremost, we're gonna be talking about graduate education, why you should be thinking about it, why and if you're here, most likely you are thinking about it, But why it's important to think about it, especially in today's society and in today for for your career trajectory. We're gonna talk about some characteristics, some things that we have seen not only here at the University of Michigan Flint, but in general about what it takes to be a successful grad student. Talk about those relationships that you want to build with faculty members. Talk about career development, employability, those Hard skills, soft skills, things that you're going to be learning in the class and outside of the class that will help you to be able to, to be able to Be prepared for the workforce.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:08]:
Be prepared to going and taking that graduate education into employment. Talk about getting involved in ways in which you can get involved as you move further down your graduate school path, and then finally talking about some financial considerations and support that are available as you're going through graduate school. So first and foremost, let's talk about graduate education. In grad school, why should you do it? Why should you even consider grad school? Well, first and foremost, when you look at research and you look at the That individuals that have gone and gotten a graduate degree, advantage of earning a graduate degree is that it will lead to a higher salary As well as advancement opportunities for you in your career. In the more education that you get as you look at studies that are out, Out there on this, the more education that someone gets, the more opportunities that they have to advance in their career, the more opportunities that they have to To gain up to 20 to 30 times the amount over the lifespan of that career within that career. So it is important to be able to consider and look at the opportunities that lie in front of you that will allow for you to be able to get that further education that will move you further in your own career journey. It also gives you A more competitive advantage when you're applying for jobs, when you're applying for advancement opportunities within your work because you've set yourself, you set yourself apart from other individuals. Also, depending on the opportunities that you've taken within your graduate work, You have the opportunity to be able to do research or to be able to delve deeper into specific topics, specific areas, things that you are passionate about, Things that you're interested in that will help you to define that career trajectory for yourself as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:07]:
As you're in graduate school, you have an opportunity to build a network of individuals around you from the students that you're going to be studying with, to the faculty you're going to be studying with, And even looking beyond that, there are definitely, opportunities within graduate school where you can go and do Clinical experiences or internships, externships. There's lots of different words for them, but there are a lot of opportunities for you to be able to get those Practical skills where you can build that network for yourself that can open doors, whether it's at the company that you may be in or working with or tangentially to other organizations or other people that those people know. So it does become important that you that you do take the time to be able to meet people within your program, to get to know the people within your program because you never know who those people will be able to introduce you to, to help you, to be able to get that foot in the door, to be able so that you can then potentially open up career opportunities for yourself. There are lots of opportunities for growth Within a graduate degree, not only on the your academic learning, but within the skills that you need to be Successful as a leader, the skills that you need to be successful as a communicator. There's lots of other soft skills per se That you're going to be learning along the way, and I encourage you to explore all of those because employers are looking for those as well. Getting a graduate degree can help you to change careers. So some of you may be thinking and saying, you know what? I've been working in this area for a little bit, And getting a graduate degree will help me to move in the the direction that I really wanna move to be able to Have the career that I want to have eventually. And if that's the case, that's great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:10]:
And just know that As you're going through, again, take advantage of building that network, making strong relationships that we're gonna be talking about with your faculty members. All of those things are going to help you to be able to transition into a new career area in that regard. It also opens up the ability for you to be seen in a different light. It adds credibility to you as an individual Because you're bringing additional education, bringing additional expertise into that work setting, into The ethos of the world, and you have the opportunity then to be able to expand upon that and go from there. Advanced education also opens up opportunities for you in many different ways. We talked about career opportunities, but it could open up other opportunities. You never know where that might lie. You may do some research with a faculty member that might turn into a, an opportunity to write a paper that goes into a journal or into Some other scholarly publication that will open up other doors for you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:20]:
And then beyond that, as I talked about networking, Alumni networks are so important. There are people that have gone before you and you need to look at that as well. The University of Michigan has one of the largest alumni networks in the world. And as you look at different institutions, you need to look at that. You need to look at, You know, what kind of abilities are there for me to reach out to that alumni network to be able to help me to get to where I want to go? So when you think about your when you think about stepping into a graduate program, there are definitely some characteristics characteristics that we have seen of successful graduate students. And One of the things that I would put out here first is that individuals that are, stepping into this type of a role, stepping into this type of a, of a program need to prepare themselves. They've gotta prepare themselves for the academic rigor And the difference between undergrad and grad. Some of you may be coming in with additional graduate work.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:25]:
That's great. And if that's if you've already gone through that process, Kudos to you. You and you probably have an idea of what is in store for you. If you have never gotten a graduate degree Before, one of the biggest differences in between undergrad and grad is the way in which you're going to be educated. Especially here in the US, you're going to find that at US institutions, what tends to happen is In a undergraduate setting, you tend to be taught by the teacher. The teacher is in front teaching you and pushing that knowledge to you. Whereas in a graduate sense, 1, you're going to be delving into a topic that is much more niche And you're just focusing on that topic. But too many faculty members will teach in a way where it's a collaborative approach to learning.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:19]:
So the faculty member is definitely going to push you and teach you and to educate you on different topics, But they're also going to be drawing out conversation and getting you to be part of the learning that is happening within the classroom itself. So a different type of focus, a different type of way in which You will learn a different type of way in which, you're the rest of the students in the classroom are going to learn, And you have to understand that that difference is going to be there and is going to happen. You also are going to be challenged in many different graduate Programs to do research and if you've never done research before, research is is challenging. It definitely can be something that will We'll push you in many different directions, and you will have to push yourself to learn new things about how to As you see here, the all these are all the steps of research and critical thinking, but these are all different things that in any Pretty much any graduate program that you're gonna be pushed to have to do. So you're gonna have to be able to identify the a problem, be able to research and find out more about that problem, look at the data and the relevance to the data, ask questions further to be able to hone the topic even further, be able to then Identify the best solution for the problem that has been that you have put out there or that has been presented to you and present be able to present your solution And analyze the decision for the choice that you made. Now not every undergraduate student goes through an experience like that where you're Pushed to think about things that deeply at graduate level, you will be. And so the way that you are being Taught the way that you are learning is going to be different. Other successful students, and I don't have this down as as a bullet point specifically, But we'll we'll I'm gonna go to the next slide, and we'll we'll talk a little bit further.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:25]:
But other other things that we found is time management. In organization, graduate students are balancing a lot of different things. So some of the things that that students need to prepare themselves for is to be able To identify strategies for themselves that are going to help them to balance their work life, Their school life, their personal life, and find ways to best balance that for themselves. Now many students will find that they really need to have some type of a a calendar or something tangible that can help them to set up a schedule for themselves, especially if they're trying to work and do school and have a family, you know, and and and Scheduling time or the things that you know that you need to be scheduling for will help you to be able to make sure that you stay on track And that it allows for you to be able to separate out. I'm working here. I'm doing school here. I'm, you know, spending time Doing this with friends and spending time with family. It is definitely important to have that support that support system behind you, Whether you have a family or if you have friends, you know, it is going to be really important to be able To have those people coming into graduate school, and when you get here, you have to be open to building new systems of support In finding the resources that are available at the school that you go to, whether it's other students in your program, whether it's other Services that are offered on campus, you wanna make sure that you tap into the support that you need early on to make sure that you're going to be successful as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:15]:
As you're looking at graduate programs, you're definitely going to want to make sure that you're, Well, as you're niching down and you're figuring out exactly what you wanna study, that you wanna study something that you're truly passionate about because you're gonna be Studying for, let's say, 2 years on a specific topic, and all you're going to be studying is that specific topic. If you're not passionate about it, it's gonna show. It's gonna show in your grades. It's gonna show in the research that you do and anything else that you do. So you wanna make sure that in the decision that you're making and the program that you're looking into, that it is definitely a passion area and something that you want to be able to go even deeper on to be able to, be able to make sure that you're going to be able to be successful In that, in that transition to graduate school for yourself. You wanna use resources, I mentioned that already, but there's lots of different Resources that are available on campus that can aid or assist you in many different ways, and you have to open yourself up to knowing that You may need help that you didn't need an undergrad. I had a graduate student that contacted me recently that was taking a biostatistics class And was a bit lost and asked if there were tutors available for statistics. And this student was a little embarrassed by it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:38]:
And I said to the student, there's nothing to be embarrassed about. You're asking for support. You're asking for help. You're identifying that this is an area that is a bit, that is going to be a bit bit of a challenge and that's okay. What ends up happening that's more of an issue is if you keep pushing through thinking, I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. And as you get further on in the term, you get further lost because you haven't asked for help.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:10]:
There's nothing wrong with asking for help, And faculty love it when students ask for help. Just because they may be seen as an expert in their field Does not mean that they don't have compassion or empathy to what you're going through and that they won't be able to open doors for you or show you where resources lie. There are definitely other resources on campus that can help you along the way with time management or other aspects. On many on most campuses, you're going to find that they have counseling centers. We ours is called CAPS, Which is a counseling and psychological services center. And that is definitely there for any student to be able to access whether they're Stressing out over test anxiety or whether they just need someone to talk to to deal with some other things that are happening in in school, out of school, take advantage of those. If you feel like you might have a learning disability or Something that you need some additional support on, reach out to the disability services office, right, when you get here. If you're a veteran, look look for Veterans services offices to talk to them and to make sure that you're taking advantage of the resources that are out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:
You definitely wanna stay healthy, and healthy is not only eating right, but it's also exercising. It's taking time for yourself To find, to take, to, to be able to relieve that stress. And each one of you is going to be a little bit different in regard to How you find that that, that health for yourself. Some of you, it may be you need to hit the gym every morning at 8 AM. That's great. For some others, it may be that you need to go on a walk every day or that you need to make sure that you're eating a balanced, balanced meal, you know, 3 times a day. There's lots of different ways that you can stay healthy, but by staying healthy physically and mentally, You're going to be able to keep up the momentum of graduate school. Graduate school can definitely be Challenging and stressful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:26]:
You've got to find time to relax and have some fun along the way and know that yes, you're here because You've been admitted to a program and that program is going to be rigorous, but that You also need to find time for yourself and be able to separate school and outside of school so that you can Take a break, take a breather, and be able to get your mind where it needs to be so that you can stay on track at school. And I always put down keep your goals in in mind, keep those in the forefront of your mind. That's going to help you to be able to Make sure that you keep pushing toward the light at the end of the tunnel and allow for you to be able to make sure that you're going to be able to be successful. Lots of other resources, that I haven't mentioned yet. If your campus has if the campus that you're looking at has a writing center or if you don't know, ask. Do is there a writing center? Can graduate students take advantage of it? We have a writing center right in the building that I am in right here at the University of Michigan Flint. Any student can go to it and you can work with, writing I'm gonna say tutors, but But really they're they're people that are getting paid to be able to help you and look at your writing to give you some some assistance in being able to Unblock your mind per se and help you to start moving in the right direction when it comes to the expectations for writing and writing within the graduate program. The library and library staff is definitely something that will hope will help you to be able to Get access to the resources that you need to be able to delve deeper, especially if you're doing research.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:18]:
But also Many many libraries will also have your textbooks or other supplemental texts that will help you to better understand topics. I talked about staying on schedule, Google task, Google calendar. Great resources. If you've never used them, check them out. They're free resources that can help you to be able to manage your time, your productivity in many different ways. You have to also be adaptable and resilient. There are going to be times during your graduate program Where you will get frustrated, where you might hit a proverbial wall and you are Doing everything you can to get over that wall and you feel like it's a losing battle. I'm not saying that to be be negative in any sense.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:08]:
It's just a reality for any of us that have gone to graduate school in the past. You will hit it at some point. And if you don't, That's amazing. But if you do, just know that the sign of a successful person is someone that can hit that wall, bounce back, And figure out a different way, figure out another way, figure out a a way to be able to either get help To get over the wall, to get around the wall, to do whatever you can to be able to, to be able to move To the place where you're going. And then as you're looking at graduate programs, you definitely wanna look for supportive and nurturing environments. You want to be in an environment that is going to lift you up and not tear you down. And so as you're looking at programs, you wanna look at that as well. I talked about the importance of building relationships with your faculty members that, as you transition into graduate school, the Relationships that you're going to have with your faculty are going to become more intimate in regard to the how you get to know them and how they will and mentor you as an individual as you go through that graduate degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:24]:
And faculty know that And they are hoping that you will take them up on those opportunities. Many programs will allow for you to have a faculty advisor, and they might call it a faculty mentor, but You're going to be assigned to someone in your program. Get to know that person. Really get to know that person. What are, you know, what are they studying? What are they researching? What what's been their professional experience and what can they do to be able to help you to prepare for That next stage, they're definitely going to be there to help you understand academics and understand what you need to do to graduate. But beyond that, Most faculty members at all institutions come to the classroom with a wealth of different experiences, and it's that experience That you are going to want to draw from to be able to learn and grow from them. So even if you don't have them as a professor in your class, you could still learn from them and learn from The things that went well for them, learn from things that they that didn't go well and that they had to learn and grow from. And by doing that, you're going to be a you're gonna be even more prepared for your life after graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:48]:
As you look to sit down with your faculty mentor, your faculty advisor for the first time, some things to think about And things to do to prepare for the meeting. Come prepared with questions, make sure that you have questions, topics that you wanna discuss, know that they're going to want to delve a little bit deeper into especially in your 1st meeting Who you are, why you're in the program, why you're interested in the career field, and what your end goals are Because they're gonna wanna see, okay, what can I do to support this student as they're going through our program? As you prepare for this, make sure that you set a meeting. Don't just show up at their office or if you do show up at their office, just say, Would you mind if we set up a meeting so that we could so that I could get to know you a little bit better, and we could talk about my My plan for the program. And then and just don't expect that if you show up at their door that they will have time right then to meet with you. But give them an out and allow for them to be able to, to be able to give you other times that may work. So by preparing for the meeting, you'll be able to ask those informed questions, those things that you've thought out, the things that are important to you, And be able to then talk about the plan that you have to that are going to push you toward getting to the next Step of your own career journey. And as you're talking about that, there's nothing wrong with asking, asking for assistance, asking for help. If there's something specific that you're trying to accomplish, talk to them about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]:
They have worked with students for probably many years And have worked to help students in many different ways. So by you being candid about what you need and what you're trying to accomplish, They can better support you down the road. As after that meeting, after You meet with your faculty mentor, definitely look make sure you that you take notes and then synthesize what you've learned To be able to connect together what your mentor has told you, what you need to do for your academic program, And what you want to also accomplish outside of the classroom as well. So all of those pieces will help you to move forward in Your graduate education. Most campuses have a robust career services or career development office With employees that are there to aid students, sometimes those individuals are spread out into Different colleges. So you might if you're in a college of education, there may be someone that's specifically tailored toward working toward education graduates. Other times, it is overarching career services or career development, And they will work with all students no matter what career area that they're in. These offices also many times will hear about internships or other opportunities that are available to students.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:12]:
They will email students, but they will also have things posted in their office. And by having a strong relationship with that individual, they're gonna be thinking about you while they get these emails and they might start sending you emails. Speaking about email, one of the things that I will say is that When you go to a graduate program, they're going to give you a campus email. Make sure that you check that email numerous times a week And read the emails that are sent to you. You do not wanna miss out on opportunities. And too often, students are, You know, they're not big fans of email, and they don't read the email. And then when they finally do, it's too late. And then they miss out on opportunities that might have, that might have existed.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:04]:
There's also opportunities for you to get involved on campus. So this is starting to get into To not only the in class academic learning, but also that out of class learning that also happens. Now this may be seen as soft skills, but leadership, communication, budgeting, you know, lots of different things that will allow for you to be able to enhance skills that will prepare you for your work after graduate school. There are student organizations that are set up that might be program specific, so organizations for your academic area. But there could be other organizations such as we have a brand new organization on campus that just started. They had their 1st meeting Just recently, and it's a students of color graduate organization. That's what it's called right now, and they may change their name down down the line. But the nice thing is is that they built this organization to create community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:09]:
And From the get go, there's been lots of opportunities for leadership because it's a brand new student organization. So that's something that you could step into at your own institution To look at what type of organizations exist, how could I get involved, is it just going to an activity or an event, Is it that I want to be an actual leader in the organization? Whatever ways that you feel like you're compelled to do, All of those things are going to help you to learn a lot about yourself, but also learn a lot for your career In the future, especially in regards to working with others, speaking to groups, being able to fundraise or being able to budget, You know, it depends on the organization and what the plan or the goal is, but there are definitely lots of opportunities to be able to do just that. So graduate school can be expensive and definitely something that you have to consider is the financials Of the of graduate school, but also scholarships that may be available. For domestic students, you wanna make sure that That you do fill out the FAFSA form. The FAFSA is the free application for federal student aid. It is for US residents. And if you you may have used this for your undergraduate degree too, many times students tell me, well, I'm not gonna fill that out because I'm not gonna get anything. But I what I always say is by filling the FAFSA out, you're making yourself eligible not only for loans, grants, Scholarships from the federal government.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:47]:
But on top of that, it may open you up for other scholarships that are need based or other type of scholarships That are from the institution in general. So taking the time to be able to be able to put that in and be able to have that considered will only assist. You definitely wanna look at every school. Every school that you're going to should have information about Scholarships that are available or other financial, need that can be provided to you as a student. So you wanna look at that? I have a link here, off of our main graduate programs page called paying for college. And on that, you're going you would see specific scholarships that are listed, but then also, links to our to our, our scholarship application because you do have to go into a separate scholarship application to apply for scholarships. So you need to look at That at the institutions that you're considering as well. There are external scholarships that are also available.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:54]:
And external scholarships are scholarships that you might find on the scholarship search engines similar to what you see here, Fastweb, CapEx, Unigo, GoGrad, all of those are different entities that bring together Individual scholarships from all over the world and from the answers that you give on Their intake form, many times they will start to email you with different possible scholarships, that you could apply for. Now that takes some time and definitely can, be something that that students choose to or not choose to do. But I will say the more that you do that, the more opportunities that may exist. And I encourage students to always apply for scholarships that they are eligible for. Assistantships is another way that graduate School can get paid for, at least in some ways. Graduate assistantships are salaried positions and basically they are I mean, here at our institution, we use them for graduate research. So you would apply for a graduate research Assistantship. And and in that research assistantship, you would be paired With a faculty member that is doing research on a specific topic, and you would then start working with that faculty member To be able to make sure that you are able to put, that you're able to, that you're able to then work 1 on 1 with that faculty member to be able to, work on getting the research out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]:
So So you're getting paid as a in an hourly wage. And at the end of a period of time, you will get a paycheck That'll get submitted to you to be able to use for it could be being used for your tuition. It could be used for Your groceries or other factors as well. I I mentioned that at our institution, we do a lot of research, but In that, but there are other campuses that may have staff type positions as well. And There are some programs that require you to be in in an assistantship to have a spot in the program. There are other programs that don't have that, And that it's just a add on. And if you decide to apply for those, that's even better. So, so that's some some things to keep in mind.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:42]:
The differences between the institutions are going to be very unique. So scholarships are going to be vastly different. By the way they do research, research may be different. The way that they do assistantships may be different. So all of those things are things that you're going to wanna think about And look into as you're considering your graduate program itself. Couple other things. You definitely want to make sure that you are budgeting in graduate school and you are able to, And you're able to make sure that you, can set a budget for yourself. As I said, graduate school will cost money.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:27]:
It is it can be expensive, and you wanna make sure that you understand what the reality is and what your budget needs to look like to be able to be successful in in being able to be Financially successful in that journey. Make sure that you're building good credit while you're in school. Don't put everything on a credit card And not pay it off because that's going to lead toward a lot of other problems. I I tend to say that If you have debt coming into graduate school that you can pay down, that's even better versus coming in with a lot of debt in your that you're trying to pay off while you're going through graduate school. If you had loans in undergrad, those can be put Those can be deferred while you're in graduate school in the US, especially for domestic students. There are loans that are available for graduate school. Those loans are based off there are going to be limits though. So depending on how much you took out in your undergraduate degree will also make a difference on whether or not, you can get federal loans for graduate school and how much you can take out and and add on to the overarching balance that you may or may not have.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:50]:
And then you can also look on campus. Look on campus or off campus for part time work to help you pay for some of those expenses To help you along the way. So, couple of other things just to to wrap up today, and then I'm gonna open it up for questions. This QR code will link you to Our graduate program resource page, which is our graduate blog, our graduate programs blog, on there, you're You're going to find a couple of things. You're gonna find a number of different articles that will talk about graduate student success, paying for graduate school, How do you pick a graduate program? There's lots of lots of resources that are on there. The other thing though that I would encourage you to check out Is we have a podcast that we've been doing now since 2022, August of 2022, And have over a 100 podcast episodes on the Victors in Grad School podcast. Now this is a podcast that is Available no matter where you are and what, what all you have to do is you can go here to this website and listen there or Go to anywhere that a podcast is, is housed and type in victors in grad school, and you'll find it. And on that podcast, you're going to find that we talk all about what it means to find success in grad school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:22]:
I talk to people every week that have gone to graduate school or are currently in graduate school, and they talk about The journey that they're on and what they've had to do to find success in that journey or what they had to do to find success in the earlier journey that Will hopefully help you and give you some things to think about to help you make this transition smoothly into graduate school. This will take you to this next one will take you to our graduate programs page. This lists all of our Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flinto. We've got over 40 different graduate programs that are available I admit all levels of education from the PhD all the way to graduate certificates. So depending on what you have an interest in and what you're interested in studying, though, there those are all different things that, that you'll find on this site. So if you take a quick screenshot there. And then if you know exactly what you want and if you know that if you know we have a program or you want more information on any of our programs, you can click on this A QR code and this QR code will take you over to our inquiry form. All you have to do is put in your name, your email, the program that you're interested in, when you want to study And let us know and then you will be able to you'll start getting some emails from us that will Send you information about the program that you have an interest in and then connect you with that program as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:56]:
Okay. Finally, this is our our, grad office email account. So flint grad office at umich.edu, encourage you to I do encourage you to To reach out to our office at any point, if you've got questions along the way, no matter what they are, just reach out, Ask us questions, and we will be happy to help in any way that we can. Feel free just to email us at flintgrandoffice@umich.edu with any questions that you may have. Be happy to help others in the future, but I really appreciate you being here today and look forward to talking to you in the future. Thanks for being here. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your Education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:51]:
For more information on any of our Graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with Me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon As we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at flintgradoffice@umflint.edu.

Entering graduate school can be a daunting prospect, especially for first-generation college students like Natalie El-Zayat. In a recent episode of the Victors in Grad School podcast, Natalie shared her experiences as a second-year Doctorate of Physical Therapy student at the University of Michigan Flint, shedding light on her journey from undergrad to grad school and offering valuable insights for anyone considering a similar path.

From Undergrad to Grad School:

The Decision to Pursue Physical Therapy Natalie's desire to be part of the medical field led her on a personal journey of discovery. Her decision to pursue physical therapy was influenced by witnessing her uncle's rehabilitation journey after suffering a stroke. Beyond the physical aspects of therapy, Natalie was drawn to the mental and emotional support involved, which ignited her passion for this field. The importance of building long-term patient relationships and the holistic approach to care solidified her choice to pursue physical therapy as a career.

Choosing the Right Program: Factors to Consider

When deciding where to pursue her doctorate, Natalie emphasized the significance of considering the type of support and community offered by the university. As a first-generation college student, the support and guidance she received at the undergraduate level were instrumental in her decision to attend the University of Michigan Flint. The emphasis on being more than just a student, but a colleague, and the dedication to service and clinical experience played a significant role in her ultimate choice.

Challenges Faced as a First-Generation Graduate Student

Natalie acknowledged the learning curve she faced transitioning from undergraduate to graduate school. As a first-generation student, she highlighted the importance of asking for help and seeking support. Balancing the rigorous program of graduate school while maintaining a life balance was a key learning point for her. She emphasized the need for self-compassion and patience, recognizing that perfection is not attainable and that the journey will have its ups and downs.

Strategies for Success: Adapting Study Techniques

Natalie's journey emphasized the evolution of her study techniques. From initially focusing on memorization for exams to shifting towards understanding and making connections, she recognized the need to adapt and refine her approach to learning. Mind mapping and seeking advice from faculty and other resources played an essential role in her academic journey. By prioritizing learning over grades, she found a more sustainable and effective way to navigate the challenging curriculum.

Clinical Opportunities and Insights: Heart Clinic Experience

Natalie's experience at the Heart Clinic, where she gained firsthand clinical exposure, provided valuable insights for prospective physical therapy students. She highlighted the importance of understanding the patient population and types of pathologies covered in the clinical setting. Additionally, she emphasized the significance of seeking out the right resources and the value of mentors in making the most of clinical experiences.

Encouraging Others: Tips for Prospective Graduate Students

In offering advice to prospective graduate students, Natalie emphasized maintaining a life balance, practicing self-compassion, and seeking support from peers and mentors. Her journey serves as a testament to the importance of adapting study techniques, prioritizing holistic understanding, and recognizing the value of personal well-being throughout the graduate school journey.

Conclusion: A Journey of Growth and Resilience

Natalie's journey offers invaluable insights for anyone considering a graduate education, particularly in physical therapy or related fields. Her experiences exemplify the challenges and triumphs that come with pursuing higher education, especially as a first-generation student. Her emphasis on adaptability, self-compassion, and seeking support underscores the importance of a holistic approach to success in graduate school.

Finding success in graduate school is not just about academic performance but also about personal growth, resilience, and a dedication to holistic learning. Natalie El-Zayat's journey serves as an inspirational guide for anyone embarking on their own path through graduate education.

In conclusion, Natalie's experiences highlight the multifaceted nature of the graduate school journey, offering valuable insights into the challenges and opportunities it presents. Her story serves as a testament to the importance of adaptability, self-compassion, and seeking support as essential components of success in graduate school.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down with you, to talk to you, to walk alongside of you on this journey that you're on. This you may be Already in grad school, you may be just starting to think about grad school. You could be toward the end and seeing that light at the end of the tunnel. No matter where you are, you can do something each day to be able to prepare yourself, to be able to work on finding success for you in this journey that you're on. And that's what this show is all about.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:50]:
Every week, we walk together and talk about things that are important to you, things that are going to help you To make choices that to find ways to be able to to find that success in your in that journey that you're on. And every week, I love being able to bring you Different people. People that have gone before you are in graduate school currently, have gone to graduate school, and are able to bring Something back to you to share that journey with you and hopefully give you some kernels of knowledge, something that you can Take from to be able to help you as you make choices yourself. Today, we've got another great guest with us today. Natalie El Zayat is with us today, and Natalie is a 2nd year physical therapy student, doctorate of physical therapy student at the University of Michigan Flint. And I'm really excited to have her here today and to welcome her to the show. Natalie, thanks so much for being here.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:01:47]:
I really appreciate you for inviting me on your show. Honestly, it's been a pleasure so far, so I'm excited to see, what conversations we have.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]:
Well, 1st and foremost, one of the things that I I love to do is be able to really turn the clock back in time. So I would love to go backwards a bit Because I know that you were at the University of Michigan Dearborn for your undergraduate degree. You were working through that. And at some point in that journey, in that time at the University of Michigan Dearborn. You made a choice to go to graduate school. What were the reasons that you chose to go to graduate school?

Natalie El-Zayat [00:02:21]:
So I Always knew that in some aspect, I wanted to be in the medical field. I didn't know what part of the medical field I wanted to be in. When I was kind of going through that process that everybody goes through in their twenties, where they're trying to decipher what route is my route, which way do I wanna go, Basically, I had an uncle of mine who, after having going through a bout of malaria, he ended up suffering a stroke. And I got to see his Rehab journey from day 1 and to see that it wasn't only the physiological elements. It wasn't only the physical part of therapy that he was struggling with, but also the mental. Anybody that, you know, has had a stroke of some sort has had several parts of their brain affected. So I feel like it was just Something that piqued my interest, I think seeing his therapist work with him day in, day out to try improve and improve his outcomes was something that I was, You know, really drawn to. A lot of times with doctors or nurses, they don't have the luxury of being long term with their patients and building relationships with them.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:03:25]:
So I think that's something that drew me to physical therapy and made me want to continue down that path. So, yeah, I just wanted to, you know, develop myself professionally and be able to make those connections of patients.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:37]:
Now as you made that decision to go to physical therapy school, to go to get a doctorate in physical therapy, You decided eventually that you wanted to attend the University of Michigan, Flint, and I'm sure that you had a number of options. You probably could have gone to many different places Across the state of Michigan or beyond. Talk to me about the decision making process and what made you ultimately that you wanted to attend the University of Michigan Flint.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:04:03]:
As somebody who was an alumnus from a University of Michigan's school, like, from a Pacific campus. I graduated from the University of Michigan Dearborn. I feel like I was always impressed by the amount of support that I was given As a student, you know, they have, like, their start program, which kind of, like, helps students who don't necessarily know what path they want to go to with advising or, like, helping them select classes and things like that. And I think just that amount of Or as somebody who is a 1st generation college student, that is gold right there. That help is just something that is is really, really important to me. So Knowing that and then going to an open house at the University of Michigan Flint, I got to meet, with some of the faculty. And what they emphasized Was the fact that, you know, you're not just a student, you're a colleague. You're somebody that, you know, you can you you can see your professors as colleagues.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:05:00]:
You can go to them, get advice. You know, they really want the best for you, and they wanna push your education as far as it will go. And I think that was something that really drew me in. It made me feel like if I do go to the school, you know, graduate school is difficult. It's, rigorous. There's a lot of time spent, a lot of studying to do, and I think just that support aspect was something that really drove me to wanting To go there as well as their dedication kind of to service. You know, we have our pro bono clinic, the heart clinic, even that just Being able to actually work with patients every week, I think, is just something that also drove me to selecting the University of Michigan as my choice for this doctoral program.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:49]:
Now one of the questions that I guess that I would ask you along with that would be is you talked about being a 1st generation college student. And as you're going through undergrad as a 1st generation college student, There are definite things you don't know, definite things that you have to learn along the way. And by the time you finish, You probably are feeling a little more confident, but then you transition not only to a new school, but you transition to a whole new way of learning. And as a 1st generation college student, talk to me about that transition for you. And what did you have to learn for yourself, Maybe the hard way to be able to allow you to get to a bit of a better point, Maybe now in the 2nd year in the program where you're feeling more confident because of the fact that you understand what's being expected.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:06:42]:
So just circling back to my undergrad, I think the thing the lesson that I learned, that was the most useful, the most impactful was that Ask for help. People want to help. You just need to ask for it. And I think there's that, like, aspect of wanting to be independent and, like, self sufficient and and things like that. But if you don't ask for help, you're never gonna really know, like, how to approach something the best way way because people have done it before you. They've done it efficiently. They may maybe have mastered the way to do something. So I feel like that aspect is really and that's something that I brought with me to, you know, the physical therapy program.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:07:20]:
I think one thing that I wasn't necessarily prepared for When entering graduate school was just the amount the volume the volume of information that is gonna be presented to you. And I remember that 1st week just thinking to myself, like, oh my god. I don't think I'm put out for this. You know? Like, everybody has that, like, Challenge with imposter syndrome. But at the end of the day, I think I went back onto the idea of help and just We're reaching out to professors, tutoring. I still utilize tutoring till this day. I try and get as much information from other people as I on how to handle these classes. And if I ever need to speak to an adviser or anything like that and have faculty advisers.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:08:03]:
So I think just leaning in to that help Has been really helpful, but also leaning on my support system, leaning on my family just to try and help me get, you know, through this. So it's It's been a challenge navigating higher education. I'm the 1st one to do it in my family. So I it's been a learning process, but, I mean, hopefully I mean, so far, I've I've Managed to be successful, and I hope to continue to do so. So, yeah, I would say just leaning on your support system and trying to find help where it's given.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:32]:
Now you talked about specifically that transition for yourself as a 1st generation college student. And I guess I I also just kinda Question, and it may be that it's the exact same answer here. But as you think about now, you said you've been successful. You found success In this journey thus far, and this is a 3 year program that you're in. You're in the 2nd year. So you found success, and you made that transition well into the program. As you think back to that 1st year in the program into the 2nd year of the program, what did you have to do? What did you have to set up for yourself, and What did you have to specifically do for yourself to be able to set yourself up for success, and what have you had to do as you've moved along To maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:09:19]:
Yeah. So I think I had to approach The way I studied differently, the way that I took in information, I especially with physical therapy, it's kind of one of those professions that where you begin The base classes that you have kind of get built on. So you're build they're like they're you're building blocks, and you start building and adding on More information as the semesters go on. And I think that's one thing that you really have to do. You have to make those connections, and you have to approach you know, like, Through undergrad, with, like, most of the courses that I was in, a lot of the emphasis was kind of on just, like, getting the grade and On just trying to, like, memorize it for the test or, like, do well for the test. But I think especially, I feel like this semester, I've kind of Started to really hone in on that idea of learning, not just for the sake of the grade, but learning to understand, Sam learning to make connections, and it's not an easy thing to do. I do a lot of mind maps. I'll, like, just getting a piece of paper and just saying, okay.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:10:21]:
This is what I'm starting with, and I'm connecting all of these things together. How do they relate to each other? And going about it that way because I think When you approach studying that way versus just going through the notes and rewriting them, you're making those connections that are gonna last. It's not gonna just be a short term game gain. It's gonna be a long term. And, also, I feel that Every single semester, I've taken I've started to refine my way of studying. So I take things that work. I keep them. If there are certain things that don't work, I just, you know, get rid of them, and then I try to even build upon it.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:10:57]:
I mean, I looked up YouTube videos and things like that. There's a lot of people that have gone to graduate before me and and your podcast also has been helpful in that sense of trying to find ways to make sure that learning is at the forefront. And this semester specifically, I'm taking the burden off of myself of like, hey. If I don't do well on this exam, it's okay. I Just I'm trying to focus on learning and building those connections.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:23]:
You know, that's so important because as you keep Going up in your education, the expectation for you to be able to have that long term knowledge and long term of the concepts becomes even greater. And I speak to a lot of students. And in high school, a lot of times, students, You can fake it. You can easily fake it till you make it, and you don't really have to push yourself. You don't have to study as that that hard typically To be able to get the grades that you want. Undergrad, little bit harder. And depending on the type of class and professor And how much they challenge you. You may still be able to fake it somewhat.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:05]:
It's a little bit more difficult. As you get into grad school, You get into your doctorate, you can't fake it. Your faculty are gonna know whether you really know it or you don't know it. They're gonna expect you to not only understand Stand the knowledge in the class, but then you have to be able to take that knowledge and put it into action. And that's Where the rubber meets the road, and you've got to be able to show that you completely understand the concept. And if you don't, You have to be willing to be vulnerable enough to say that and to put yourself out there so that you can learn it. Because in the end, especially in a program like this, It's gonna impact you as a professional and how you are going to impact the work that you do with patients. Now You mentioned heart, and you mentioned that that has been something that's been important for you in the decision making to come to the University of Michigan Flint.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:00]:
And not every student at knows to ask those questions to find out if there are opportunities for that type of experience Prior to getting into clinical rotations, as you look at the experience that you've had with heart And you think back to your time prior to going and picking a graduate school. What are some questions that you would have wanted to have asked to find out more about that clinical experience, that In person hands on experience that you're now getting, but you might not have known to ask that as you started off.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:13:42]:
One of the things that I would have like to know more about and a question that I would have liked to ask prior to starting is about, like, the Type the population type, the types of patients that we're gonna be seeing, and I guess a lot about all all sorry. About the, Pathologies that we would be seeing as well. We do get wide array of patients. We get patients that have Parkinson's disease. We get patients that have Have had suffered a stroke previously that we work with, have exercise classes that we do with those patients, but then we also have just Clinic. We have people that come in that have low back pain and things like that. But I will say the types of patients that dominate kind of that population are the patients that have had Some sort of neurological deficit. And I feel like that's something that I would have liked to know previously because I would have maybe looked more into interventions and things like that.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:14:35]:
I mean, they teach us a lot through the program. I'm talking about if I were to start my 1st semester all over again when I have to volunteer. I feel like I would have liked to know that just because it would have helped me know which sources to kind of seek out or Who to seek out? Amy York, she's the person that runs the pro bono clinic, and she's a great, great resource. And she's always encouraging people to ask questions. As a 1st year, you're kind of a little bit hesitant to do so because you might not know what questions to ask Or you might not know who to ask. So I feel like if I had maybe known those 2 things, the type of patient population and who to ask To try and give these patients the best possible experience that they can get, I feel like those would be the 2 questions that I would wanna know previously.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:21]:
And, you know, I think one of the things that's unique about the physical therapy program here at the University of Michigan Flint with this heart clinic is that 1st year students are able to get involved, Which is not always the case, and that's the case when you look at clinical experiences and any type of field. A lot of times, you have to wait until you're at least In your 2nd year or so to be able to have some knowledge under your under your belt, to go in to work with the faculty in that way and to get Your hands right in there to impact patients. And this program at the University of Michigan Flint definitely is unique in that way that it does allow students that want to to step out into the clinic right from day 1. And and I think that that is something that allows for you to be able to differentiate your experience and get more experiences, with a diverse clientele that will allow for you to serve others in much better ways in the future. Now as you think back to your graduate education so far and you think about people that are thinking about graduate school, whether it's Going to become a a physical therapist or some other path. What are some tips that you might offer those other students? Those people that are thinking about graduate school right now that would help them find success sooner.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:16:44]:
Well, first and foremost, I would say one of the most important lessons that I've had to learn is You're not gonna be perfect all the time, especially in doctoral program. You're having to balance Your life. Some people still work while they're in graduate school, which is incredibly impressive. I'm not one of those. Also, I think my commute factors into that because I do drive of distance to get to school, but, you know, balancing family, things that are important to you. And I think it's that balance that kind of can help you keep going Because a lot of people sometimes might put too much in 1 basket, and then what happens one side of the basket, and then the basket tips over and, you know, you're kind of just like you start going through the cycle of feeling like you can never catch up or keep up. At the end of the day, it is a rigorous program, And you have to be forgiving with yourself. You have to realize that I'm not perfect.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:17:40]:
There are gonna be times or certain exams where I'm not gonna do the best. But if You can take those experiences and make them positive by talking to faculty, figuring out ways that you can what knowledge gaps there are and how you can fill them and Learn from that experience and have that kind of mindset to develop yourself and just develop yourself professionally, I think, is really important. So I would say not being so hard on yourself, trying to keep that life balance. Whatever it is that you like doing Previously, just try and keep it going as much as you can. I will say in the 1st year, I really struggled, to keep up, my exercise. There was a lot of times where I would just fall off. I would try, and then I would just fall off, and I wouldn't end up going back to the gym. And I and, Overall, I feel like it negatively impacted my mental health.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:18:33]:
But being able to do that this semester, even if it's just 2 days a week, taking that time for myself And not feeling guilty about, like, not studying or anything like that is has been really, really helpful for me. And I think just being patient with yourself because you're not gonna figure it out day 1. It's not gonna be perfect. You know, you've never had to hit that level of, Oh, wow. This is a lot of information. How am I gonna integrate it all, and how am I gonna, you know, understand it all and do well on these exams? Well, you You know, it's not gonna be perfect, but over time it will get better, and you'll know how to manage your time in a way that will help you. And I think just Trying to keep the things that you love, trying to to keep the people around you that you love, and to keeping that social support, and not just Having, like like, one track mind of, oh, I just need to study. I need to study because at the end of the day, you are human.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:19:28]:
There's only you know, the brain only has so much capacity. And I think just focusing on having more efficient study times where you're trying to, like, understand the Concepts versus memorize every little detail will benefit you more in the long term.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:43]:
Well, Natalie, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, And I wish you all the best.

Natalie El-Zayat [00:19:50]:
I appreciate you so much. Thank you for having me on. I always want to help people as much as possible. I'm not sure If you can share my email, but you can put my email out there if anyone has any questions or anything. I'm always willing to help. As somebody that, you know, Didn't necessarily have that help going into undergrad and graduate school as well. I always am willing to, you know, sit down and have a conversation. So thank you so much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]:
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our Graduate programs, visit umflint.eduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with Me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flintgradoffice@umflint.edu.

Navigating the World of Graduate School

Graduate school is a significant step in an individual's academic and professional journey. The decision to pursue advanced education often arises from the desire to broaden one's knowledge, enhance career prospects, or delve deeper into a particular field of study. In a recent episode of the "Victors in Grad School" podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis engages in an insightful conversation with Kyle Jankowski, who shares his experiences and insights as someone with degrees in social work and psychology. These insights shed light on the challenges and triumphs of navigating through the world of graduate education, shedding light on what it takes to succeed in a rigorous academic journey and beyond.

Finding Purpose and Evolving Aspirations

Jankowski's decision to pursue graduate studies stemmed from a desire to seek more opportunities for advancement and leadership in his field of social work. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the financial and career prospects associated with specific educational levels. Through his introspective introspective and forward-thinking perspective, he highlights that graduate education opens doors to expanded opportunities, particularly in areas such as administration and specialized roles that often require advanced degrees.

Overcoming Adversity and Finding New Paths

The episode underscores Jankowski's pivotal moment of simultaneously receiving an acceptance letter for a graduate program while being laid off from his job. This confluence of events led him to reflect on the importance of adaptability and seizing opportunities in the face of adversity. His journey serves as a practical demonstration of navigating life changes and aligning them with professional growth. It is a testament to how setbacks can lead to unforeseen paths of personal and professional development.

Selecting the Right Institution

Jankowski emphasizes the significance of selecting the right educational institution and program, citing the impact of mentorship and financial considerations in his decision-making process. The importance of scholarship opportunities and a program's fit with personal and professional aspirations is highlighted. His experiences underscore the need for a holistic assessment of factors such as faculty mentorship, financial aid, and the cultural fit of an institution when considering graduate programs.

Balancing Personal and Academic Commitments

Maintaining a balance between academic commitments, personal life, and financial responsibilities is crucial for success in graduate school. Jankowski's dedication to his studies while acknowledging the need to sustain connections and manage finances is emblematic of the multifaceted responsibilities that graduate students often face. His emphasis on practical time management and budgeting strategies underscores the need for holistic planning to navigate the demands of graduate education successfully.

Integrating Education into Professional Practice

The integration of theoretical knowledge from graduate programs into real-world professional practice is essential for growth and impact. Jankowski's insights into utilizing group work and mentorship from his programs to shape his work with young adults and children showcase the tangible impact of graduate education expertise on creating positive change within communities. By drawing connections between his academic and professional experiences, he showcases the relevance of graduate education in shaping effective and impactful practitioners.

Guiding Tips for Prospective Graduate Students

Jankowski's reflections culminate in a set of guiding tips for prospective graduate students. He advocates for aligning educational pursuits with intrinsic motivations and work ethic, emphasizing the importance of clarity in one's professional aspirations. His insights on the potential pitfalls of over-specialization and the value of a holistic approach to personal and professional growth provide invaluable guidance for those considering advanced degrees.

Conclusion

In the world of graduate school, diverse challenges and opportunities await individuals seeking to further their education and professional prospects. Jankowski's journey, characterized by resilience, adaptability, and a commitment to learning and growth, provides an inspiring narrative for those navigating through graduate education. It underscores the multidimensional aspects of success, from selecting the right program to integrating knowledge into professional practice. Ultimately, Jankowski's insights serve as a beacon for aspiring graduate students, offering pragmatic counsel and a broader perspective on the transformative journey of graduate education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, Doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to be in this journey with you As you are considering grad school, you're in grad school, you're looking at the light at the end of the tunnel, and you're and you're looking at the end of grad school, no matter where you are in this Journey, you are on a journey. You are on a journey toward getting that credential, getting that degree, moving toward The end goal that you've set for yourself, the whatever that career goal is, that aspiration that you're aiming toward, I love being able to talk to you about this and helping you along the way because every person is on a little bit of a different path, but what's important is to know that Though your path may be different than mine, there are many things that you and I both can do to be able to find success in that journey that are going to be exactly the same. And that's why this exists. It is here to help you to find ways that you could find success in the journey that you are on. I I also love every week being able to bring you different guests that are able to share their journeys with you so that you can learn and grow from what they went through And help you in the journey that you're on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:28]:
Today, we got another great guest. Kyle Jankowski is with us today, and Kyle is the founder and co owner of the Center For Change and Healing as well as the co owner of the Birch Forest Children's Therapy Center. Really excited to have him here with us today And to have him share his journey with you. Kyle, thanks so much for being here today.

Kyle Jankowski [00:01:53]:
Thank you very much for hosting me, Christopher. I'm glad to be here. It's good to be able to give back to the school and give back to young people that are And not so young people that are taking 2nd life journeys Well,

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:03]:
I really appreciate you coming up in the field and advancing. Kyle just tipped his hat a little bit. Many of us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]:
He did do his undergraduate work here at the University of Michigan Flint getting a bachelor's in social work, but then he went on from there And went to the University of Chicago, Crown Family School of Social Work to get an MSW, and then went on from there to do some more work with Pacifica Graduate Institute in getting another master's degree in psychology. So he's he's done this a couple of times. So one of the things that I I first love to do is I'd love to go back. I wanna go all the way back to that time when you were at the University of Michigan Flint getting that bachelor's degree. Talk to me about what were the reasons that made you choose that you wanted to go initially to graduate school?

Kyle Jankowski [00:02:53]:
In social work, it really is a profession at this point in history that's built around The graduate program and the advanced MSW degree and its subspecialties. There's a lot that you can do at the bachelor level, But there are financial realities that kick in with having a sustainable income at the bachelor's level. There's also realities With being locked out of certain job positions, administrative positions, there's a lot of ground level stuff that's done very well by people with the bachelor's degree with the BSW, But there's also real limits on advancement for people's natural leadership skills. They're Various geniuses, as the Greeks say, with lots of talents like Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences, Their unique cultural perspectives and other perspectives that they that they have, that they bring into the field that enriches it and the work that they do. So there's a bit of a A glass ceiling for a lot of opportunities unless you have that master's degree. I was in a position where I had been working in foster care in Genesee in Shiawassee County and Lapeer County, which is around Flint where I grew up. And I was working for a number of DCFS contractors experts and doing in home care, counseling, support groups, and a lot of transition to college type programming. And it's a contract position from the state, And my coworker and I, who were the only 2 caseworkers, for a lot of kids, were laid off Because the organization lost the contract.

Kyle Jankowski [00:04:24]:
Now it was about that same time that I started before then a few months, I started thinking about graduate School and applying, and I was applying all over. I I applied at, I believe, Michigan State. I applied at Ann Arbor School, which is where the master's program is for University of Michigan's system, and I applied to Washington University in St. Louis and their famous social work school, Columbia in New York, USC, etcetera. And I was looking also at other backup secondary smaller schools. And about the time that I got my acceptance letter To both Washington University and University of Chicago, I got my pink slip from my organization. So it worked out very well In the sense of fate, providence, divine intervention, or dumb luck, whichever way you'd like to take it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:10]:
So I know, as I mentioned

Kyle Jankowski [00:05:12]:
just clear that what you need to do,

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:14]:
And you decided to get another master's in psychology, and not just overarching psychology, but a specific type of psychology. So what made you decide that you wanted to go even further in a different direction to be able to expand your knowledge in that different way.

Kyle Jankowski [00:05:38]:
Yeah. Well, this is the importance of mentors and where that comes into the story. So in my 1st semester, my 1st course at University of Chicago. This is the 1st week of school at Real Coursework. They do a lot of onboarding and orientation and fun stuff beforehand And then like a lot of programs do. We're in class, and I run into this very lovely, very bright woman In the lunchroom, and she is getting her food, and her name was Vanessa. And she I didn't know at the time, but, she was gonna be my wife. She introduced me to a, her training clinical mentor, Kevin, who was a big figure out Here in Chicago, had founded a lot of programs back in the seventies, eighties, and nineties for adolescent treatment, which was very burgeoning at that time.

Kyle Jankowski [00:06:29]:
Mostly what's been applied to adolescent child treatment has been adult models, and he was creating with other people a unique adolescent Theory based model, that was very effective and still is very effective. And I started doing, additional training with him And, working with them, he worked with a lot of other professionals from different disciplines that were doing general self development as well as specialization in, social work and clinical social work. He was a, PhD from University of Chicago, And so I worked with him for years as kind of a, graduate auxiliary program, I guess, or maybe we might call it a, a postgrad, You know, type of training, very thorough, training and group work, and then that His background also was in, union and depth psychology. That's the work of Carl Jung, Freud. It includes Adler. It's it's the branch of psychology that doesn't get visited very much. It's James Hillman's work in archetypal psychology, Marian Woodman, Marie Louis van Franz and others and, who have made themselves more of a name in modern times with a lot of, body centered and somatic and trauma literature, somatics, and a lot of art therapy is based in union psychology. So it It was something I was always drawn to being interested in story, mythology.

Kyle Jankowski [00:08:00]:
I've always had a strong interest in My own cultural heritage, which is Polish and Scottish, and then intercultural programming. And so It was a natural fit for me for the things I would have read about anyways. Why not get a degree in it, have the credentialing? And I planned on publishing in it, which I have since then. And my wife also kinda dragged me into doing it at that time too. So we got to do another program together, which was a lot of fun.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:25]:
Mentioned this a little bit, but as you are looking at your graduate programs, And you've mentioned you looked at a number of different ones before deciding on the University of Chicago, and you may have considered a number of ones before you went and got your your master's In psychology as well. Can you reflect back on both of those degrees and the institutions that you did select? What was it about those Specific programs or institutions that made you choose to go to those institutions versus others.

Kyle Jankowski [00:08:53]:
Well, there was. My family is a working class, lower middle class family from Flint. A lot of auto workers and tradespeople, lower tier medical professionals, not lower as in less skilled or, less talented, just the lower paid nurses and And the people that do all the real work in the hospitals and the clinics type of folks. So we did not have the means at this time, and this was even before the Massive spike in tuition that happened nationwide for me to attend the types of schools that I was being accepted to. So Part of the decision for University of Chicago is they gave me a very generous scholarship, and I was able to combine that with my own savings and literally selling off all of my belongings and assets, Including a very lovely motorcycle to pay for the program. So that was a big decision. Also, my mentors at University of Michigan Flint, Kathleen Worley, who I believe since has moved on. I think she teaches at Central Michigan University now.

Kyle Jankowski [00:09:51]:
And doctor Everett j Blakely, who I believe is since deceased. Chuck bay Chuck Bailey, who I believe was part one of the founders of the program, there and was big in addictions work in and around Flint and Denise Dedmon, who was came late into the program, and Jacqueline Harvey Also, she was our she taught addictions, and she also did the cohort, training program for the BSW program. All of them I had very close relationships I developed with, and it was in that very rich mentoring true teacher sort of capacity. And they spoke very highly of the program at UChicago as well as UW Madison and Ann Arbor and other programs around the Midwest. We really have, Along with our industrial heritage and our engineering heritage here that that we're known for in our collegiate system in the Midwest, we have a very strong Social services program and public policy program that sometimes is in the shadow of the east and west coast schools. So I just wanna Put in a shout out to our schools around here for that. So it came out of that, and a lot of it did come down to scholarship money and practicalities. I was also looking at the condition of Flint at the time.

Kyle Jankowski [00:11:04]:
This is circa 2006 to 2008. Things were very bad during that time and not on an upswing. And I was looking to find some new opportunities in ways that I could possibly loop back around to Flint in the future, but I needed to be able to have employment. I had student bills. I wanted to get married. So I just didn't see the opportunities around the area that I was looking for. UC is where social work started in America with Hull House, Jane Adams, the famous OG social worker, Mary Richmond, Abraham Flexner, and others. And they pioneered the whole field, in in Chicago, working with immigrants, working with Native Americans and African Americans that had moved into the cities, Gangs, drugs, they did everything.

Kyle Jankowski [00:11:47]:
It was amazing, the stuff that those ladies did, and it was primarily the women driving the program. I wanna be a part of that. I wanna join. That was really exciting. So that sealed the deal. And a few of the other schools, though I was grateful to be admitted, on my academic merit and my work, their scholarships were a joke compared To the reality of tuition. 1 school offered me $500 in total. So that was a hard pass on that one.

Kyle Jankowski [00:12:10]:
As far as for Pacifica for the later program, there's not a lot of training centers for union and depth psychology that are in North America. There's really, I think, 4. You have Pacifica out in Santa Barbara. You have Naropa University in Colorado, which is a Buddhist based school founded by Shogyam Trungpa who was trained at Oxford, and he was one of the people that escaped with the Dalai Lama from Tibet. But the school is very Buddhist, and that's not the school I was looking for. There's Essex. The that does some, remote learning, I believe, through programs in Canada, And then you have, there's another school in California. California Institute of Integral Studies is primarily a psychology school, Smaller.

Kyle Jankowski [00:12:56]:
They're very good at what they do and and their programs. And Pacifica is considered at the top, And they had a remote learning program that allowed me to do a hybrid of being there in person and being here and being here back in Chicago with my Duties and responsibilities as a director. It was a good call for my existing relationships and my marriage and my clinical obligations to my patients. Usually, a lot of graduate programs, you you leave. University of Chicago has a psychology program, and they said, basically, don't have a job or a marriage. Well, that wasn't gonna work. So there's a lot of practical decisions. You should look for a program that calls to your heart also.

Kyle Jankowski [00:13:34]:
When I walked on the campus at University of Chicago And I walked on the campus at Pacifica doing tours there and exploratory interviews. I was immediately drawn to The good fit of the place. It's the same thing I felt at Michigan also. And if you go to other campuses and you don't feel that, That is also a very important piece of data about yourself and the good fit of belonging to that community. Sometimes your intuitive mind will speak to you in that way. So I put a lot of stock in that along with the hard science.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:09]:
Now you did make it through these programs. You found success in the graduate programs that you went into. It seemed that they were tough programs. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the graduate school journey?

Kyle Jankowski [00:14:26]:
Reviewing on what has Then your your historic formula for success in school, personal organization, willing sacrifices that you make for socially and otherwise. I did a lot of work with my friends and my family of informing them about the realities of the commitments that I was making. What I did is I made myself Available when I could, showing up for social events and whatnot and maintain connections, but being very clear that this is what I can offer. And it wasn't a take it or leave it type of scenario, but it was also a reminder to them that this is what they have been supporting me to do. This is what they've been wanting me to do. And if they were serious about believing in my success, this is where it's taken us to. So we have to work with that. Being very careful about your budgets and reining in your spending is really important because you're often on a very limited budget with graduate programs.

Kyle Jankowski [00:15:21]:
Being extremely organized with your time, lots of compartmentalization is good, you know, where you can have dedicated time to study. What I did when we did the 2nd program at Pacifica, Vanessa and I dedicated all of Friday and most of Saturday to doing serious block times of study, and we found that that worked for us. So we compacted our entire clinical appointment week and everything else into basically 4 days, which made for a very intense 4 day work week, but there was enough energy and headspace available to be able to really dive into the material and get the most out of. And I found that doing that at When I was at Chicago, it was also very effective. So you have, like you're on with your internship or practicum, and then you're off that Clock. You're on the clock for study, and then you're off that clock. You're on, like, you're on the clock for a gym break or recreational time, and they're off that clock. Make food.

Kyle Jankowski [00:16:13]:
So not in a rigid sort of OCD kind of way, but really allowing yourself to have brain breaks and physical breaks, And do not neglect the body. Do not neglect body. We burn so much blood sugar just thinking that it could be the same as what you burn during a workout, And people can be exhausted from just reading their class materials and going through the books and listening to the podcast and listening to the mixed media stuff that's part of a lot of programs now. So you have to find and recognize that formula that has worked for you and then advance it, revolutionize it, Keep working with it. You don't have to start from 0 every time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:49]:
I appreciate you sharing that. Now you got your degree in social work. Later, you got your degree in psychology. As I mentioned at the beginning, you have these 2 specific things that you're doing with your center and working with young adults, young Children, talk to me about how you're taking that information that you learned in that MSW, in that other master of arts, And you're incorporating that into the work that you're doing on a daily basis.

Kyle Jankowski [00:17:16]:
So I learned a lot about group work At the MSW program, I can't speak to the program currently. But at the time, the group work program At University of Chicago was very poor as far as the training. It was embarrassingly poor. It used to be very legendary, but it was not good. All the training I received was from my clinical mentor, Kevin, And he trained us in all the classical stuff, the new emerging things, stuff from AA hospital groups, retreat centers, Intercultural studies, all kinds of stuff. So I was very confident coming out of that training with him of applying it. I also had had a lot of Not group therapy experience, but I had been a swimming coach for 8 years. I had taught music and drum corps at Several area high schools around Flint.

Kyle Jankowski [00:18:02]:
I've been a lifelong musician. I've been a tutor in an elementary school. So I I had a lot of experience with the youth, And I wanted to continue that work with youth into working in school settings, community centers, outreach programs, which I've done since then. So it was both the practical experience. It was the not real experience. Sometimes we say, you know, that's the other resume stuff that that was instrumental. It was the theory. It was also being in groups.

Kyle Jankowski [00:18:33]:
Part of real clinical Training to be a psychotherapist or a clinical social worker requires that you work on your own stuff, your baggage, your shadow, your Skeletons in the closet, whatever you, you know, wanna call them. It's not enough to just do cognitive therapy. There has to be a lot There has to be a lot of working with accountability for yourself, atonement for some people through religious lens, things like that. And Psychotherapy has that confessional quality to it even if we don't wanna think that it does. We can take it through a lot of different lenses, But, essentially, you're confronting the parts of your humanity and the parts of your current and past life that are Not functional or not good for yourself or others, not good for society, not good for you being an upstanding citizen wherever you go with it. So that was really essential. The theory at University of Chicago is very heavy. It's a very theory heavy program, And they love their research.

Kyle Jankowski [00:19:34]:
So having a lot of books, which may not be popular anymore because of whatever current political wave The student finds himself in and things go in and out of fashion, but there's it's worth returning to the classics to understand why we still need to study them or why we do actually need to leave them in the past, but learn from them. There's a reason, and I don't just mean the western classics, but that's true also. But whatever is the classic literature in your field. If you're only reading things that were written after the year that you were born, I would really question the seriousness that you have for Your field of study. The reading only postmodern literature is a problem and will create deficits of what you can do effectively in your field. You need to pair it with If you respect it as a body of literature, you need to pair it with the classical stuff also because it's the how we got here. There's a lot of books in our field too that are about Psychotherapy and working with communities and families, it's a lot of the human condition. So we have a giant mountain of literature and film and art and sculpture about that that crosses cultures, that crosses societies, crosses gender, everything.

Kyle Jankowski [00:20:47]:
And if the theory gets too heady and heavy, even if you're in business or in marketing, go back to some human stories. Go back to some relatable things that where you watch something or you went to a music festival or an art gallery or you were Out in a national park somewhere or it was a dinner table conversation with your grandmother or it was coffee with your neighbor who chain smokes sitting on the curb in your apartment block, but somehow has got a lot of wisdom to them in their grizzled life. Go back to what how did the light bulb turn on with those people? Bring that into and look for similar experiences out there in the world outside of the literature. Remind yourself of why you got into this. It's about halfway through your program, you're gonna say, why am I doing this? This is terrible. Am I gonna survive this? Sheer will and frustration And grit, it will not get you through it. There's got to be heart. There's gotta be passion.

Kyle Jankowski [00:21:46]:
There's gotta be calling. There's gotta be vocation in the original sense of that and in the modern sense of that that brings you into it. And I can say that about my profession, and I can say that about the many forms I've taken with still true. When I don't feel that anymore, I'm done.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:00]:
Now as you look back at the education that you had and you think about people that are coming beyond you, that are thinking about graduate school In many different areas, what are some tips that you might offer others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner?

Kyle Jankowski [00:22:16]:
Something that can't be replaced by AI. Something that is not trendy and fashionable right now where you can make a lot of money and be really hot with it and because You're disposable. Over specialization has its perks. It also has its major drawbacks when its time is done. And if you're not adaptable, that's gonna be a real problem for your ability to live and sustain yourself and make money and take care of your family and your other obligations. So if you there are people, though, that are Trendsetters and fame chasers and money chasers, and they're on they're in one thing, and they're on the next thing. They're on the next thing, and they've got kind of that gypsy personality, we might call it, and they can just jump from thing to thing to thing and actually be successful at There are very few people that are like that. And scientific systems personality tests like the Enneagram, the Myers Briggs, and others that are very reliable also back that up.

Kyle Jankowski [00:23:16]:
And if you don't test as one of those people, you probably shouldn't do it despite the hype. I've seen I've had a lot of people show up in my office that have done that wanting to be their older brother or sister or their father or their mother who is that personality or their friends Chasing that type of thing, whether it's through modern media or it's through the business world or they followed a boyfriend or girlfriend or they thought it would be a cool profession. But they didn't have that deep conversation with themselves about why they're drawn to this and what their what their reasons are for getting into it. If your reasons are to appease someone else, That's gonna lead you to a lot of Volley also. You can do it for a long time, but you'll burn out. And when you burn out hard, you spend a lot of money and a lot of time, And then what are you gonna do? So a lot of younger people and a lot of people changing professions are concerned about wasting their opportunity. Well, the illusion that's put out there about a lot of the hype masters in professional fields is that you gotta do their field, and you gotta do their thing, and You gotta do what's the new thing. That's not as they said in the sixties, that's not where it's at.

Kyle Jankowski [00:24:22]:
So, also, you can't just follow your passions if you don't have work ethic. Because if you don't have any grit, You're not going to do it when it's not fun, so you gotta be very honest with yourself about how motivated are you by pleasure, by immediate reward, By you get a big paycheck, these types of things, we can superficially say, like, oh, that's not me, or I'm not motivated by these things, Popularity, fame, whatever. But if you are that, again, there's gotta be that reckoning with yourself because it'll get yourself into trouble. It's been 9 years, and you haven't finished your 2 year master's degree because you've changed it over and over again. All the money spent and time. It's very preventable.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:00]:
Okay. I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for sharing everything that you just Talked about, but also challenging people to think about things in a little bit different way because I think it is important. It is important to be able to think outside of the conventional and be able to think about where your goals are leading you, what where your aspirations are leading you, And it may not be in the conventional means, so I really encourage you all to listen to what Kyle just said and to consider that for yourself. But, Kyle, thank you for being here, and I wish you all the best.

Kyle Jankowski [00:25:34]:
You're welcome. Thank you very much. I really enjoyed this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:37]:
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.eduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon As we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flint grad office at umflint.88. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASBA world.

Embarking on a journey towards graduate education is a significant decision that can profoundly shape one's career and personal growth. In a recent episode of the Victors in Grad School Podcast hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, the conversation centered around the critical aspects of choosing the right graduate program. The episode provided valuable insights into the multifaceted process of selecting a program that aligns with individual aspirations and goals. Here, we delve into the key considerations and guidance offered, empowering prospective graduate students to make informed decisions.

Understanding Personal Goals and Aspirations

Dr. Lewis emphasized the importance of understanding personal goals and aspirations when considering graduate school. It's essential for individuals to reflect on their career ambitions, areas of interest, and long-term objectives to identify a program that resonates with their professional and academic trajectory. By gaining clarity on personal motivations, prospective graduate students can make informed choices that complement their individual aspirations, leading to a more fulfilling educational experience.

Impact of Graduate Education on Career Advancement and Personal Growth

Graduate education wields a profound influence on career advancement and personal growth. During the podcast, Dr. Lewis highlighted how advanced education can significantly impact earning potential and open up avenues for career progression. Understanding the link between graduate education and professional development is crucial in evaluating the long-term benefits and implications of pursuing a specific program.

Importance of Hard and Soft Skills

Beyond academic knowledge, the significance of honing both hard and soft skills in graduate education and employment was underscored. Graduate programs offer a rich environment for developing critical thinking, problem-solving, and leadership abilities alongside specialized expertise, making it imperative for aspirants to seek programs that foster holistic skill development, enhancing their competitive edge in the job market.

Building a Professional Network

Networking opportunities provided by graduate programs are invaluable for fostering professional connections and broadening one's sphere of influence. Dr. Lewis shed light on the significance of building a professional network through graduate education, emphasizing how strong industry connections can bolster career prospects and provide access to mentorship and career opportunities.

Different Types of Graduate Programs

The podcast delved into the diverse array of graduate programs, encompassing master's degrees, doctoral degrees, and specialized degrees in various fields. Understanding the nuances and focal points of each program type is essential for applicants to align their academic pursuits with their professional goals and aspirations.

Application Process and Requirements

Navigating the intricacies of the application process, including GPA considerations, admission requirements, test scores, letters of recommendation, and personal statements, was a focal point of the discussion. Dr. Lewis provided valuable insights into the common questions found on graduate school applications and advised applicants to diligently complete all requirements to facilitate a seamless application process.

Financial Aid and Scholarships

Exploring avenues for financial aid, scholarships, and potential employer education benefits was emphasized as an integral part of evaluating graduate programs. Dr. Lewis underscored the importance of seeking out scholarship opportunities, understanding application deadlines, and exploring fully funded options to alleviate the financial burden of advanced education.

Quality of Graduate Program and Campus Life

The quality of a graduate program extends beyond academic curriculum, encompassing faculty background, student-faculty ratio, resources, and campus life. Prospective students were encouraged to delve into the nuances of campus life, commitment to diversity and inclusion, and the support services available, ensuring a conducive and enriching educational environment.

Selecting the right graduate program entails a comprehensive assessment of personal goals, program dynamics, financial considerations, and campus life. The insights shared in the Victors in Grad School podcast equip aspiring graduate students with essential guidance to navigate this pivotal decision, empowering them to embark on a transformative educational journey that aligns with their aspirations and sets the stage for future success.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Thank you so much for being here today. I am doctor Lewis. I'm the director of graduate programs here at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you here today. And, as I said right before, if you have as you're joining, Just make sure that you put your full name in the breakdown, of who you are so that we know so that I do know who who is attending, so We can contact you and reach out afterwards with a follow-up. But today we're gonna be talking about choosing the right graduate program. There are so many different graduate programs that are out there, and it's so important to be able to do the things that you need to do to find the program that is the right fit for you. Whether that's here at the University of Michigan Flint or wherever you plan to go, there are things that you can do today That will help you to be able to find that right fit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:09]:
And there may be more than 1 right fit as well, But there's good questions that you need to be asking and things that you can be doing as you're going through this process of searching And reviewing and exploring the programs for yourself. And that's what I hope to be able to share with you today, to be able to help you in that. So Let's talk about a few things we're gonna be covering today. So couple things that we're gonna be covering today. These are a few things that we're gonna be covering today. Wanna talk to you about Looking internally at the goals, the aspirations, the things that that you have for yourself that are important to you, so that you know why you're doing what you're doing, but also what you're looking for As you're exploring these different graduate programs because you have to know yourself to be able to best advocate for yourself to know the program that's going to be the right fit. You also need there's some definitely some different factors, some different things to look at as you're going from program to program and you're reviewing those programs. So I wanna make sure that you have some context there to be able to know what to look for there, Understanding the graduate student experience, and then we're also gonna be talking about the application process as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:29]:
So let's talk a little bit about your goals and aspirations. Went too far there. 1st and foremost, as you're considering graduate school, every person has to take the time to be able to really look internally amongst yourself to be able to better understand why are you going to do this, what are you trying to accomplish, What are the goals that you have set before yourself? Is it that you're in a career and you want to move to the next phase of that career? Or you've talked to people about being able to get into a specific job in the in the place that you're In or you see yourself in a different company or in doing something else down the road. And to get there, you need a certain type of degree Or a certain a graduate credential behind your name. There's lots of different factors, lots of different reasons that people choose to go to graduate school and understanding that for yourself is going to help you to be able to then take that next step to look at different programs and understand what you need to be doing To be able to look at those programs and understand what that program is going to offer you and whether that is going to help you to get to where you want to be. And then also as you are looking at that next phase, and this kinda goes into the looking at the programs that we're gonna be talking about and some of the factors, Is looking at the different opportunities and resources that are available to you as you are looking at, the future. There are different resources that are available that if you really need to really delve a little bit deeper into setting goals for yourself And being able to understand your aspirations a little bit more. There are things that are out there online that you can turn to to be able to Better understand what your skill set is, where your strengths lie, where maybe some of your weaknesses lie So that you can then say, well, based on those strengths, based on those weaknesses, what might be a graduate program that I might be interested in as well? Now you may say to yourself, I already know what program I'm looking at.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:46]:
I know the institutions that I'm interested in. That's great. But if you don't, Taking the time ahead of time to get to know yourself is the first is a first step for you to be able to make sure that you are able to, move forward. So a couple of things that I want to I always want to touch on, and this is some kind of some interesting factors As you're looking at graduate school and graduate education, graduate education has a huge impact on career advancement and personal growth. All of studies, if you look out, across many there's many different studies that are out there. But if you look at, this is just 1 study that I pulled. The and this one study, on average, employees with their bachelor's degree earn a medium average about 61,000 over the course of their career, While employees possessing a master's degree earn 78,000 per year. And then as you continue to get those additional credentials, you had the opportunity to be able to expand that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:46]:
And all of these are based on specific career areas too, and the amount that you can make in those careers can vary greatly Based on the career aspect as well. Now Georgetown University Center on On, education in the workforce found that not only in the sense of just annual income Is there a exponential increase? But over the lifetime of a career, you can Make so much more by getting that graduate credential. So you can see here that individuals with bachelor's degrees Can earn up to 2,270,000 over the lifetime. And with an advanced degree, you can earn up to 30% more. So there is a lot of opportunities there for you to be able to expand in many different ways. Not only does it expand your earning potential, but it also increases your opportunities for getting hired And increases the opportunities for you to get a promotion. So as you're looking at these different opportunities and you may be choosing to go to graduate school because of that, But 36% of employers reported that they would be unlikely to promote Someone who didn't have a college degree and 27% of the employees employers are seeking candidates with a master's degree or above. So all of those pieces are really important as you're thinking about these.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:22]:
And then as you're looking at your graduate education, As you're looking at the graduate programs that you're considering, many employers are looking for people that have Not only direct hard skills, things that you're learning in the classroom that are preparing you academically, But they're really looking for those soft skills. So taking advantage and looking for programs that give you opportunities for things like internships or externships or clinical experiences, Work study. Any of these type of opportunities that allow for you to get that practical experience is really important And gives you an opportunity to be able to learn the the soft skills and the hard skills that you're going to be needing. So soft skills, when I'm talking about soft skills, That's typically out of class learning, things that you might learn in an internship, an externship, a work study like I have on here, Things like time management, collaboration, creative thinking, problem solving, working with others, you know, all kinds of factors like those are things that That employers are looking for as you are looking at going for that. On top of this, be being in a graduate program builds your network. It gives you not only a network of people from academia, faculty members that have their own networks that they can tap you into, but on top of that, There are others that are in the program with you that you can build on and work with to be able to build that professional network for yourself as well. So let's talk a little bit about graduate programs. So there are many different graduate programs that are out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:03]:
There's tons of different Graduate, there's tons of different graduate programs that are available to you as a, as a student. And it's important for you to be able to understand and to know what type of graduate programs are out there, but also How do you find what the differences are in those graduate programs? So first and foremost, as we're looking at different graduate programs, I'm gonna say there's a couple of different things that you need to be thinking about as you are going to look at the differences between graduate programs. 1st and I'm gonna start with this the first the 2nd bullet point here is the first one. 1st is the type of degree. So There are master's degrees, there are doctor degrees, depends on and depending on the type of degree that you're looking at will depend on how long that program is. So a master of arts, a master of science, you may be looking at a PhD, an EdD. There are specific degrees in specific areas. Like In social work, you have MSW.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:10]:
So many different types of degrees that are out there, And depending on the degree itself may determine what you have to do to be able to get the degree itself as well. So you have to look at that and look at the focus of the programs themselves. Every program is a little bit different. I saw that 1 person on here was interested in, some in in biology or communications. And A general master's in communications is is one aspect, but then many times within the programs, there are concentrations, There are opportunities to take specific courses, and that goes back to what are you trying to get out of this? Are you trying to get a better understanding of what let's say with communication. Are you trying to become, are you trying to find program that is going to help you to be a better communicator or a better communication leader within your organization. Do Do you wanna understand organizational communications? Do you want to do something that is more, targeted toward, maybe a combination of communications and marketing. There there's lots of different there's lots of different programs that are out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:32]:
Do you wanna do something that has more of a, You know, a journalistic aspect to it that is more creative writing and communications. You know, there's there's every program is a little bit different, In every program based on the faculty that are in the program, the programs will have a little bit different spin. So each program is unique, And you need to be able to really read well and ask good questions about what the program goals are, What they want students to take out of the program and based on what they want you to take out of the program and the classes that you're taking, is that going to get you To those aspirational goals that you've set for yourself, or is there a different program that will help you to get there better? The program could be at a public university, a private university, you know, depending on that will determine the size of the program and you wanna look at that too Because, you know, if a program has an open admission policy and on average, they're bringing in a 100 new students every every term, That's a pretty big program versus a program that brings in 2 or 3 students a year, and then it becomes a very competitive program. And the and with a very small program, you're gonna know that you you are going to have a lot more expectation to be very actively involved in that education. The difference between undergrad and graduate work is the the focus of the of the the topics that you're gonna be talking about In undergrad, for those that have never gone to graduate school, you're gonna find that in graduate school, you are really delving deep into that specific targeted topic that you wanna go into. Many students love going to graduate school because of the fact that you are focusing on something that you're passionate about Versus in an undergraduate degree, you tend to be focusing somewhat on that, but then also taking other courses To get to the end goal of getting the bachelor's degree itself. So these are things that you need to be thinking about. These are things that you need to be looking at, And I always tell students that as you're comparing programs, set up a Excel spreadsheet, set up a Google A sheet and build out some columns in that spreadsheet for yourself that looks To each of the unique programs and each of the, each of the program and what each program offers And try to align the questions and have and be able to set the questions that you have for each program the same So that you can find out, okay, what is this program offering me? What is this program offering me? What is this program offering me? And then you can look at them side by side, And you can align what each offers you to find the program that has that good fit for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:38]:
Also in graduate work, you have a lot of opportunities here to be able to engage very closely with faculty and with research. With many graduate degrees, there's lots of opportunities for practical experience, but also research experience, And and that's an important thing because it, again, lets you delve deeper. Some graduate programs will require research, Will require that you have a thesis at the end or some large research project at the end. If you're in a doctorate, You have a dissertation typically at the end, so it's important to understand what is the expectation in the program For you to be a learner, for you to be a researcher, for you to be a writer, and make sure that Whatever those expectations are within the program that it aligns with what you're looking for and what you're comfortable with. And I'm gonna say That you're comfortable with but that at times you sometimes wanna push yourself too, out of your comfort zone, into something you might not be comfortable with But that will push you, challenge you, and prepare you for the future as well. But research is a It's a great opportunity for you to be able to find faculty with similar interests and be able to tap into them. There's nothing that says that you can't Reach out to faculty. Look at the websites because many times faculty will be listed and you'll be able to see Who those faculty members are and what their interest areas are, and you can always reach out.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:13]:
Ask them questions. Explain your own interest, Especially if the program is a, is a program that is a has limited seats, Being able to reach out early, have those conversations, learn more about the faculty, show that interest that you have in the program, It may give you a little bit of a leg up or may not. Some programs, especially on the PhD side, will require That you do that research ahead of time and you find a faculty member that would work with you on a research topic. So we have a PhD in computing here at the at the University of Michigan Flint. One of the requirements of that program is that you're going to be doing your due diligence, You're going to be then reaching out to faculty members after you've looked at the faculty, they're at their research, And you found someone that is willing to work with you on a research topic. So that is a unique factor of that program alone, But you need to look at each program that you're considering to be able to understand and better be able to align and see, Is this program fit? Does that program fit with what I'm looking for? Couple other things to think about. Accreditation is very important. You may or may not have ever heard that word, but accreditation is what pro every program should have some type of accreditation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:46]:
Many programs are accredited by a national body, A body that will say that, that this program has gone through the steps to make sure that Not only is there are there courses and are is the academic solid, but it's preparing students well, and it's getting students prepared for the workforce. They look at Metrics in regards to, career placement. After the fact, they look at entering credentials. It's a very Extensive process that, oh, that assures you that the Program is of quality, so you wanna look at that. Wanna make sure that if a program is on probation, that they're taking the step, because sometimes programs will be get get put on probation for small things, things that are not, you know, vastly problematic, But they might be they need to make a tweak in in in some courses or they need to make a tweak in something else. So sometimes you'll see that a program says we're on probation, for our accreditation. Ask a question. Just say, what does that mean? What are you working on to get out of Out of that probationary, period, sometimes programs have to start on on probation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:01]:
So if it's a new program, They might not have that initial accreditation for a year or so, so ask those questions. Are you accredited? Who are you accredited through? And and ask that along the way. Program reputation, this was a little bit harder to come by. You can always go online and there's lots of sites that will say this is the best program for this. I always Tell students to be wary of those because a lot of those are either, one, Being created through surveys of peers. So peer every year, let's say for US News and World Report, US News and World Report sends out an email to people all over the country and they say, who do you think is the best education program For education graduate program, and they'll ask lots of different questions about what you know about different programs. Well, The problem is is that there's many different education programs that are out there, and the people that are filling these surveys out may or may not know about other programs. So what happens with a lot of these entities is that they are a starting place, but they can be subjective.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:23]:
And because they either are being made from surveys of peers or surveys that are sent to institutions, so For the latter, institutions sometimes will get these surveys, they'll fill them out themselves, And then they learn, okay, what is this group really looking for? And they can make tweaks to move their ranking up as well. So I just always warn people to say if you look at US News and World Report, if you look at, any of these other ones that are out there and you see these rankings that are out there, you can use them as a starting point, But just know that there are many other programs that might end up being a better fit, and they may not be on that list, but that doesn't mean That they are bad programs. It just means that that for some reason or another, they're not showing up there. And So I always encourage you to look beyond the national rankings per se and find the questions, The factors, the things that are most important to you, and then look into the programs. Again, setting them side by side And seeing how the programs answer your questions to be able to make sure that you're finding the program that's the best fit, Not just the program that comes up on a list as the best program per se. You also wanna look at the program format, but also the lifestyle that you will have as a part of that program. So when I talk about program format, 1st and foremost, what that means is is is how it how is the how are the courses being offered? Is this a fully in person program? Is it a Hybrid program where you'll have some in person, some online. Is it a fully in person program Where you're coming in with a cohort of students, and you're gonna be with those students from the beginning of the program to the end of the program.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]:
Is it a full time program where you're gonna be taking Fourteen to 16 credits every term. Is it a part time program where you may be working Full time and taking some classes at night or on the weekend. You know, look at the types of formats that are out there. What works best for you and what works best for the life that you're trying to live? Many students are not able to just automatically quit their job if they have a job already. They're trying and they may be trying to say, look at a program that they can fit into the work that they're doing and then they can utilize that work to be able to Then, be able to, take classes while you're working. But if you're looking at, hey, I'm stopping work Where I'm moving to a brand new area and I wanna do this, I wanna get done as quickly as possible to be and I wanna just completely focus on this, Then a full time program probably would be a great opportunity. You also wanna look back at what I said before. Are there opportunities within the program for you to be able to get practical experience, Not just in class experience, but practical experience, whether that's through graduate assistantships, Whether that's through internships, externships, clinical opportunities, what type of opportunities are there? How many can you take advantage of? Because the more especially for the programs that are very tangible about the outcome at the end of what you're gonna be using that for, Having practical experience will not only broaden your network, but it will also offer you opportunities to be able to hone those skills That you're going to need to be the practitioner that you want to be in the end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:26]:
You also wanna look at again, as you're factoring and looking at these, you wanna look at the what Are the admission requirements? What are the what are the qualifications for you to be able to be even be considered for the program? What are the requirements for getting for applying And for getting accepted into the program, each program is going to be unique. Many programs will may have a GPA, a certain GPA that they're gonna be looking at. They may be having a, letters of recommendation, personal statements, maybe a test score. Some programs will require either a GRE or an MCAT or a GMAT or an LSAT. You know, it just depends on the type of degree that you're interested in, but you're going to need to look at the websites, and the website should be very clear. They should explain everything that you need to be doing to apply to that institution and be considered for admission. So you want to make sure that That is something that on that spreadsheet that we were talking about, put those in there too. Make sure that you're adding that into the mix So that stew so that that as a potential student that you know what you have to do.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:39]:
You also wanna look at how do you have to apply. There are some programs at some institutions where you just apply through the regular website. There may be an application fee, there may not. There may be opportunities for you to get an application fee waiver, and maybe not. So it just depends. Some some some institutions don't even have an application fee. There are other programs that use what are called credential assembly service, CAS application systems. So at our institution, we have a few of those.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:12]:
So our physical therapy, our occupational therapy, our physician assistant Studies and our public health programs all use different CAS application systems. What that means is it is a external application system That you use to be able to pull all your documents together, and then you it allows you to apply to Many different programs across the United States that are available to you, and it's a one stop place for you to be able to say, I have these 5 programs. Here's the 5 programs. I wanna apply to all 5 of these. Once your file is complete, You then can easily submit those and you pay the application fee through that that that Cas application system itself. But each program is gonna be a little bit unique, so you wanna make sure that you really look closely at what those differences are. And At the same time, look at the timeline because there are some programs that have very hard application deadlines, There are other programs that may admit students on a rolling application basis, meaning that as Applications come in and they're complete, they will be considered, and that they'll consider them up to a certain point. So if they say the final deadline for fall of 2024 is August 1st, well, that's the hard deadline.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:40]:
Well, it's January, Let's say right now and as you are looking at being admitted for that fall term, you would want to then say, Okay. I can apply at any point between now and August 1st knowing that if you have everything in tomorrow And everything's complete, they're the program will consider you. There are other programs that will say you have to have your application in by this date for Early admission and this date for regular admission. So every program is just a little bit different and you have to look at that closely. The class size, again, important, good question to ask is to say, is there a certain number of Seats that you have within this graduate program, some programs have a set number of seats that they can admit. Others will be just an open admission type of process looking for the best fit, and they'll continue to fill. Also, that student faculty ratio. The big difference between a program that has, you know, 5 full time faculty members and you have 60 incoming students every fall versus 5 full time faculty members in, let's say, 10.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:56]:
That faculty student ratio is gonna be very different and you're gonna have a lot more one to 1 connection In that class of 10, then you are in 60. So, again, just something to ask and to look at. Also financial aid and scholarships. Different institutions will offer different types of, financial aid packages in In scholarships that are available, I always encourage graduate students to fill out the FAFSA. No matter if you think you're going to get financial aid or not, if you're a domestic student, Filling out the the federal application for for or the free application for federal student aid is very important because it will, at times, Allow for you to be able to be considered for scholarships that may be available at the institution. You also need to look at the institution to determine whether or not there are unique Scholarships and if there are specific processes you need to follow to be able to be considered for those scholarships. So for example, Internally here at the University of Michigan Flint, we have some scholarships that are donor based scholarships that you have to apply through our financial aid office 4. So and there are specific deadlines that you have to follow to be able to do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:10]:
So you want to make sure that you wanna make sure that if you do have or if there are specific deadlines for those scholarships, so you don't miss those. If you're an international student, sometimes students sometimes there are scholarships that are specific to that population, so you have to look at that as well. If you're looking at specific programs, sometimes there are program specific scholarships, and there may be specific criteria that you have to follow to be able to be considered for that as well. So it's just really important to be able to start early, look at the opportunities to be able to see, are there scholarships that are available? There are Some programs that may be fully funded graduate opportunities, but then there's many other opportunities that may have Small amounts of scholarship that would help you along the way, but they're not gonna completely pay for your graduate education as well. One of the other things that I'll that I'll put out there that, before I go into the internships and networking opportunities here is that One thing that I always encourage students to do as they're considering graduate school is if you're working full time, is to talk to your employer and let them know of the interest that you have in continuing your education, especially if it's something that would benefit you And benefit the work that you're going to be doing. Because many employers may have an education benefit That is there that you may not even be aware of. And it may be that your employer offers a a tuition reimbursement, Which basically means that you'll pay upfront and then you'll get reimbursed for maybe it's 1 class, maybe it's 2 classes a term, but That after the fact, they will reimburse you, or maybe they have a specific scholarship based program where You turn in and say, okay, I'm taking these 6 credits and they will pay for 3 upfront. Each each program is a little bit unique.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:11]:
Each employer is a little bit unique, but many times, people don't realize it's That it is available as a benefit. So I encourage people to look into that, especially if it's especially if you're looking at a program that's going to enhance the work that you're doing. Because I know sometimes people are a little bit afraid of bringing that up, especially if the employer may think that it's gonna detract You from the work that you're doing. So you, you know, if you're asking those questions to HR and, you know, that's definitely something you have to just keep in mind that they might Say, well, how is this gonna impact, you know, your work? And you'll have to have an answer to that as well. We already talked about internships, But it is important to look at those when you're looking at graduate programs. Are there internships, externships, clinical opportunities available for you? And, being able to look at look at those as you're going along. And then also what type of alumni network is available And can you tap into that alumni network? How do you develop a network for yourself, whether it's through the interactions that you have with current students, Interactions with other students in other classes or alumni as well. So those are all factors that you need to be thinking about and looking at in general.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:28]:
So couple things, and I'm just gonna kinda go through a number of these. So how do you determine the quality of a good graduate program? So 1st and foremost, you wanna look at your faculty. In when you're looking at graduate work, faculty relationships are so critical and so key. So you wanna look at what what type of background do the faculty that are teaching you have? Have they, You know, have they been teaching for a long time? What is their academic background? Were they working in the field? And are they bringing some of that back to you as a, as a student. And, what type of classes are they are they teaching in? Are there are they teaching in some specific areas, specific areas where they may have had direct experience in? Look at those type of things to be able to better understand who is gonna be teaching you and what are they gonna be able to to, In the end, teach you to be able to be the practitioner, the, the practitioner that you want to be down the road. How accessible are the resources on campus, and how accessible is it for you to be able to access the faculty? That goes into that faculty to student ratio. That also goes back to the opportunities that you have for for research. You know, it's definitely a question to say, you know, for me, it's really important to be able to have a close relationship with my faculty member.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:03]:
And how easy is it for students to develop those relationships with faculty? One of the other things that you can do and you can ask of any program is to say, is there a current student that I can talk to? That I could talk to about their experience in the program. And most graduate programs are gonna be more than willing to Find someone that you can talk to to connect with, to be able to get a better feel for, 1, is this the right program for you? And 2, You know, here, what they as students are are experiencing in class, out of class, and see if that type of experience, what they've had Is a similar experience that you wanna have? What are the facilities like on campus? Is it up to date? Is it, is it something that is going to offer you, state of the art opportunities to be able to hone your skills and help you to be able to push you in the direction that you wanna go and and push you toward the the things that you want to learn. What's the social environment like? Now this may not be as big of a deal for you, especially if you're looking at an online program or or a hybrid program where primarily you're gonna be taking things, online from afar and you're not taking advantage of the social aspects. But if you are gonna be on campus, either part time or full time, that's an important thing. It's to look at what type of opportunities are there to connect With others to build that network, to be able to create those relationships with others, and then also looking at alumni. And this is another good question to ask Programs that you have an interest in is what are your alumni doing? What are some of the pathways that they've followed after getting that degree At your institution, is there someone that is an alum that I can talk to, that they would be willing to talk to me about their experience And how it helped them to be able to get to where they are. Those are all questions that are fair game And definitely something that you should ask because it's something that will help you to better understand the program and to better understand what that program can offer you in the end. So as you're looking at the experience of a student of a graduate student, as I said, Reach out, talk to the programs that you have an interest in, be able to better on to better understand what the student experience is like.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:36]:
So ask students, what is the experience like in class? What is the experience like out of class? You know, why did they choose this program, And what have they found since they've been in the program? What are they like most? What are they like? What are they like least? What do they wish they knew before they started in the program at that institution. Those are all great questions and things that will help you as you prepare yourself for for the future. Campus life, building, we talked about that in the last slide a little bit. But But especially if you're gonna be on campus, those are factors and things that you'll want to definitely look at and see. And then, couple other things just to think about Is the, the the university's commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion? If if that is important to you and more for more and more students that I talk to, it is. You wanna look at look at the faculty that you're going to be having. Look Get the opportunities on campus. Look at the things that the that the university is doing to support diversity, equity, inclusion on campus and whether that supports the needs that you have as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:49]:
Support services, there's lots of support services that are on different campuses, for disability services, for, academic resources, and what are the what's the library like? Is there tutoring available? You know, lots of different is there a writing center on campus? You know, all kinds of factors like those. Those are all things that you should be asking and looking into Because you never know what type of services you may need to be able to support you, to help you to find success in the future. Couple other things, just to keep in mind. Again, understanding the application process, wanna make sure that That you do understand the application process. The because there will be some typical things that they're gonna be asking for. I'll kind of bring some of those up. There's different types of applications. I already talked about those.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:44]:
The questions on the applications are typically going to be pretty similar. Especially Generic wise, they're gonna wanna know more about you, your demographics, you know, what you're going to need. If you're a domestic, international student, there's different needs. There there may be specific questions on the application that are program specific as well that you'll need to answer along the way. The biggest piece as you're going through that application is to make sure that you answer everything fully. You don't wanna leave anything to chance. Leave any blanks that then the the institution is going to have to follow-up with you on because if they do, There is the chance that then your applications kinda just sits out there until we get the answers to those questions. Test scores, Definitely something that many that that some schools will require.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:35]:
You'll have to make sure that those official test scores are submitted From the test agency. Same with your transcripts. Some universities will allow for unofficial copies of the transcripts to be sent to be considered. Others will require official copies of your transcripts to be to be sent, to be considered. Some Some institutions will allow for unofficials, but then by the end of your 1st term, official transcripts will have to be received Because we know that some students will still be working on that that undergraduate degree and finishing that up. But In the end, by the end of your 1st term, you will have to make sure that your application, or that your transcripts are in Because otherwise, you won't be able to continue taking classes. So every institution's a little bit different. You need to look at that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:24]:
Couple other things, letters of recommendation. It's pretty common that Letters of recommendation wise that you, that that many institutions will require letters of recommendation. Sometimes it's People from your past in academia. So you might ask for a faculty member letter of recommendation or a person that is in a field of practice, professional reference, so you have to look at that and what they're looking for. And some programs will require inter an interview as well, So you do have to look at that too. Thank you very much for being here today. Really appreciate your time. I hope that this has been helpful, And stay in touch.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:06]:
Let us know if you have any other questions. Again, my my email, our email here Is flint grad office at umich.edu. Feel free to reach out and to ask any questions that you might have. We'd be happy to help in any way that we can, whether you're planning to attend the University of Michigan Flint or not. You know, we want you to be successful In the journey that you're on. So I highly encourage you to do that and to reach out further. Thank you for your time. Have a wonderful day, And go blue.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:38]:
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing Your education, whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you Prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flintgradoffice@umflint.edu.

Entering graduate school is a significant decision that often requires careful planning, finding the right resources, and making the necessary adjustments for success. In a recent episode of "Victors in Grad School," hosted by Dr. Christopher Lewis, the conversation with Samara Hough, the director of the Center for Gender and Sexuality at the University of Michigan Flint, provided invaluable insights into her graduate school journey, including her decision to pursue a Master of Social Work (MSW) degree, the challenges she faced, and the resources available for success. This blog post aims to expand on the key points discussed in the podcast, offering a comprehensive guide for prospective graduate students.

Exploring the Decision to Pursue Graduate School

Samara shared her unconventional path to graduate school, which began with an undergraduate degree from the University of Michigan and six years of work experience in the nonprofit sector and state agencies. Her decision to pursue an MSW stemmed from the urge to expand her skills and knowledge beyond what her undergraduate degree offered. This emphasizes the importance of gaining practical experience before embarking on graduate studies, as it allows individuals to identify their areas of interest and potential career paths. Prospective graduate students can benefit from taking a similar approach by gaining work experience to better understand their academic and professional aspirations.

Researching and Choosing the Right Program

When Samara decided to pursue her MSW, she sought out the best program to fit her specific needs. Her experience serves as a reminder of the significance of researching and understanding the offerings of each program. Additionally, she highlighted the importance of exploring education opportunities, such as taking trial classes or talking with current students, to gain insights into the program's expectations and culture. Prospective students should thoroughly research potential graduate programs, considering factors such as course offerings, faculty expertise, and campus environment before making a decision.

Preparing for Success in Grad School

Transitioning into graduate school after several years in the workforce presented Samara with challenges and anxieties. She emphasized the importance of setting oneself up for success by leveraging support resources, such as academic advisors and building relationships with classmates. Prospective students should anticipate and prepare for the transition by seeking advice from current students or mentors, understanding program requirements, and familiarizing themselves with campus resources to facilitate a smooth adjustment into the academic environment.

Connecting Graduate Education to Professional Practice

Samara's insightful reflection on the link between her MSW education and her current work in higher education underscores the practical benefits of graduate education. Her MSW concentration in family systems and grounding in group dynamics and crisis management aligns with her role in the Center for Gender and Sexuality. This connection highlights the importance of aligning graduate education with career aspirations and professional practice. Prospective students should seek programs that offer practical experiences and specialized knowledge that complements their desired career paths.

Finding Support and Resources

Through her work, Samara actively supports students through mental health and crisis concerns. She emphasized the need for graduate students to seek out available resources and support systems on campus, such as mental health services, student organizations, and diverse community programs. It is essential for prospective graduate students to explore and connect with the support resources available within the campus and surrounding community, ensuring holistic support throughout their academic journey.

Samara's experience provides valuable insights for prospective graduate students, emphasizing the significance of thoughtful deliberation when considering graduate education, choosing the right program, and preparing for success. Her journey underscores the interplay between graduate education, professional practice, and community engagement. By taking the time to research, prepare, and seek out available resources, prospective graduate students can navigate the challenges of graduate school effectively and set themselves up for a successful and fulfilling academic experience.

In conclusion, Samara's journey in graduate school exemplifies the importance of a thoughtful, diligent approach to graduate education. Aspiring graduate students can draw inspiration from her experiences to make informed decisions, address challenges, and leverage available resources for a successful academic journey.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, Doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint, really excited to have you back again this week. This week, as always, we are on a journey together. I know that you are either you're on that journey for graduate school, whether it's You're at the very beginning just thinking about graduate school. You're in the thick of it. You've been admitted. You're starting the program, or you're in the thick of it, and you're Actually, in the program and you see that light at the end of the tunnel, no matter where you are, there are things that you can do to find in that graduate school journey, and that's important. So every week, I love being able to talk with you, to work with you, to help you along this journey, To be able to help you to learn some different things, some different skills, some different things that others have done that will help you In the journey that you're gonna be on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:04]:
I also love being able to introduce you to different people every week that have gone before you, that have gone to graduate school, And have some of their own perspective, but also might have some other resources to share. And this week, we got another great guest with us. Samara Howe is with us today, and Samara is the director of the Center For Gender and Sexuality at the University of Michigan Flint, but she has her own graduate school story. We're gonna talk about that as well. Samara, thanks so much for being here today.

Samara Hough [00:01:32]:
Thank you for inviting me. This is exciting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:34]:
Well, I'm really excited to have you On and 1st and foremost, we're gonna talk about that graduate journey that you went on yourself. And I'm gonna turn the clock back in time because I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan And then went on from there, a little while down the path as you decided to continue your education and getting an MSW from from Wayne State University. So during that time, whether it be during undergrad or during your work experience, Talk to me about what made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school?

Samara Hough [00:02:08]:
Yes. Well, Chris, it's a interesting journey. I actually had to plan Host be, grad undergraduate to, take 2 years off and get experience, and that turned actually into 6 years of work history, working in a nonprofit realm, working in for the state. There was a time period where I was a CPS worker, and it was actually during that time where Where I thought I felt like there was a kind of a limit. Like, I had reached my limit of kind of what experiences I could get with Which is having the BSW under my belt or, actually, having the BA under my belt because U of M did not have a BSW program at U of M Ann Arbor. Thankfully, here, We have a BSW and a MSW program here at U of M Flint. By the time, I didn't have that option, and so I was just trying to figure out How I can really build my skills and help families over case management, over, like, really dealing with some of the clinical aspects of Kind of really the origins of what may have gotten folks stuck, whether it be emotionally or mental health wise or what have you. And so I thought I went to get my MSW degree and started shopping around institutions.

Samara Hough [00:03:20]:
Actually went first to U of M and I were kind of that I optioned because I was also a working student. I was working full time at U of M Ann Arbor. I really felt that Wayne State gave me an opportunity to work Part we're working my master's part time, and so that was what part of the draws there. And then also just working in the city and just, The learning in the city of Detroit, that was something that was really a big draw for me. My classmates were also working folks And at the time as well, expanding my family, got married, all those kinds of things were happening all while my working part time on my master's degree And working in a crisis agency in Detroit. So that was a little that's a snapshot on that journey. I actually walked across the stage while gosh. I was probably 6 months pregnant at the time when I walked across the stage, and my daughter is now 12.

Samara Hough [00:04:14]:
So that's a little bit of my, experience there. It was not a direct route. And even with that indirect route, I still think, Yeah. There was definitely lessons learned there in the journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:24]:
Now you said that you looked around and you tried to identify the best program for yourself. You chose Wayne State University's MSW program, and every person has different things they're looking for, different reasons. Talk to me about what made Wayne State The right program for you at the time.

Samara Hough [00:04:40]:
I think in part, there are pros and cons to going to a very large institution. I would say my undergraduate experience at U of M Had, again, like, its pros and cons. I wanted a different kind of individual experience as best as I could. So I felt like Wayne State gave more individualized even though it's a bigger Campus as well, but it was definitely rooted in the city as well. And, honestly, it gave a kind of U of M Flint feeling, to be honest, where It's a campus, but it's also in the city, and there was that aspect of it. So I think there was that and then the course offerings. So I actually had a opportunity to take a course there at Wayne State. We could take up to, like, 8 credits without being a a full time or part time students.

Samara Hough [00:05:25]:
And so I took a couple classes there and really enjoyed the instructors, Again, the students and it gave me, like, a trial run, I think, of kind of what to see if if this was something that would be a good fit for me. I think the also, the other route is I was a psychology and women's studies double major, and so didn't doesn't have a didn't have MSW program as I mentioned, A BSW program as I mentioned, and so I was kind of in between. Should it be psychology or should it be actually MSW? And so I've I've been talking to other folks Who were clinicians, whether it be clinical psychologists or, licensed social workers. I felt like the social work route gave me more flexibility. And I Also, at the time, wasn't all the way interested in the PhD route, and so that's something that usually if you go with a master's in psychology, you'd wanna go the full Routes to be able to do the work that you're looking to do. So that's a little bit about I think, for me, I had the opportunity for to try it on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:19]:
It's nice when you can Do that, and you can have the opportunity to go in and go through that opportunity to test out your professors or test out the campus, test out the feel to see, do I feel like this is the right fit for me? And not everybody has that opportunity, so it's good that you had that opportunity to take advantage of. And it may not be something that Students even think about to consider or think about to try if they are really on the fence of trying to figure out for themselves, is this program really the right right place for me? Is is that might be an option, is to talk to the program and say, you know, I know I've been admitted here. You know, I've been admitted quite a while back. Is there is it possible for me to take a class or sit in on a class And see, you know, what the classes are like and get a feel for it. And not every program probably has even been asked that question, So it's not a bad thing to ask and see if you can take advantage of that. Now you found success in the graduate school journey. And as you said, it was about 6 years or so after you got your bachelor's degree and you'd been working, So there was definitely a transition that you had to make to get back into the groove, get back into school. So as you think about that, What did you have to do to set yourself up for success as you transitioned into grad school, but what did you also have to do to maintain that success throughout the graduate school experience.

Samara Hough [00:07:48]:
Yeah. Like, I think when I was in my bachelor's degree, I struggled a bit. And so I had that kind of, oh, Kind of worry of, can I handle all of the demand? Like, that kind of concern. And so for me, like, I Took some time to that taking the time and take classes did help. And then also, I I was talking with my adviser about the plan, what I'd like To do with this degree was a part of that. And then, honestly, like, as you get started going back to school, it was kind of a bit of nostalgia, like, To getting my books and, you know, 1st day of class and getting, like, the materials. And then it it was a settling that happened. I think it was just really that initial, like, step that made it have that anxiousness a little bit, butterflies, but I think utilizing those resources, Like your adviser, talking to other students that have been there and really prior to you starting.

Samara Hough [00:08:43]:
The building those relationships, I think, are really important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:45]:
Now you did get a degree as a MSW, and you're working in higher education now. Little bit of a different field, but definitely still some parallels In regards to to at least what I see in regards to the the the skill set. But I guess as you think back to the graduate education that you went through And what you're doing now, how do you find that what you learned in your graduate degree prepared you for the work that you do daily?

Samara Hough [00:09:13]:
That's a big question. People often think social workers the surprise that their social worker is in higher education. I think there's a growing trend of seeing more of us Even prior to COVID, in terms of supporting students through mental health or crisis concerns, or as I mentioned to you, I was a nontraditional student, Parenting, all the stresses of all of those different things, and I think, you know, we bring that to in our classroom. You know, we're studying and learning, and then also Life is happening at the same time. So I think some of those experiences, like like, I think of some of the courses that I took as far as, Diversity, equity, and inclusion, our center supports members of the LGBTQIA plus community and intersecting identities within them. And so we think about How we are inclusive in our work, how are we really thinking about, you know, identity and elevating voices, and when we think about, You know, communities of color. Like, all those pieces are are central to how we approach our programming. I would also say, our students, Everyone is open to be in the center.

Samara Hough [00:10:17]:
So students come in and out and participate in some of our groups settings, like, core Thursdays and women talk Wednesdays. I mean, those are essentially, like, group support groups, but they're not tagged as support groups. Right? And so and so we offer support to our students. So I think definitely those the grounding in group dynamics, Crisis management skills, because we also support survivors of sex and gender based violence in our office, providing advocacy. Those were all things that, you know, Where courses were things that we're kinda rooted in in in social work. And I would say too, you know, my concentration was in family systems. And so really thinking about How families operate. And then social work really centers around a really core belief that it's the person and the environment.

Samara Hough [00:11:02]:
So what's going on behaviorally? What may be someone's response to something is is not just that it is what something is it's not that something is wrong with them, but We're thinking about analyzing, like, what's the ecology? Like, what is going on, that's surrounding that person that's also in the environment? How they respond to community based violence that's happening in where they live, or maybe there are some things happening generationally when it comes to trauma, or what are some things that are limitations or gaps In terms of services that are available in this community, those are all things that impact individuals, impact our students, impact our families, impact children. So I think Having that mindset is helpful in helping to navigate and guide the direction of the center and also a response to our students. And one thing I think is interesting too, you know, social workers, we're often collaborating with other nonprofit agencies on behalf of or Support of of a of someone, individual or family, and that happens as a part of the division of student affairs. So, like, I'm working at Harvard Student Affairs Connected with the Intercultural Center. I'm connected with CALVS. I'm connected across campus. I'm the dean of students on behalf of of students, the the title nine office. You know, these are all units that we work with on a regular basis.

Samara Hough [00:12:15]:
And so I think having that grounding of that grassroots nonprofit social work experience Also translates here in higher education.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
So you just talked about a lot of the things that your center does, and I think that as students are considering graduate School, I always say that one of the things that they need to look at are the resources that are available on campus, and we've had some people on, On, the show in the past talking about veteran services or disability services, and you're talking about other services that are available. So Talk to me about some of your thoughts, especially with the populations that your center works with. If you were to talk to Students from the population that you're working with. What are some of the things that you would say to them that they should be really on the look for On the lookout for when they're looking at prospective graduate programs, but also the resources that are available in or around the campus that could support their graduate education.

Samara Hough [00:13:13]:
Sure. I mean, I think one of the biggest pieces that we deal with through our center are Students' concern around safety, their sense of safety. What does that look like? Sense of belonging and also just, I would say, connection as well. And so What resources are available? I think, really, one of the things that we've worked hard at is that partnership, for instance, with CAPS. Right? So mental health services. So being able to know, like, There's nothing taboo about reaching out to therapy. If there's some things that you are maybe have never dealt with or talked about or something that occurred later in life that you need to kind of unpack, Those partnerships getting kind of shored up in terms of feeling in terms of your mental health and, that letting that be a practice of of self care. And I also think about socially.

Samara Hough [00:13:58]:
What are some things that you can how we might be able to get involved? And I know that's harder for maybe some of us that are graduate students or may have other responsibilities outside of school, but I think those connections are can be so so vital because that can help, You know, learn more about resources that are on campus. You know, often students find us at the end of their career. You know, we when I think about Laverne Graduation, which is our Celebration of our LGBTQIA plus students. We've had students find out about Lavender Grad, like, literally their senior year, or they're like as they're exiting graduate Well, that has happened before. But, like, knowing that the center is available to to you beyond a beyond a crisis, but also we are available When you're in crisis, some folks didn't know we have emergency grants through the center. So I think making those connections and knowing what the services are and also, like, if there's Connected with SIL, there are opportunities that for student orgs to get involved in. Like, those are definitely things that you can still have access to even at the graduate grad level. When you think about With the Sorority of Fraternity Life, there are grad chapters that are very active on on our campus and in community in in the Flint area.

Samara Hough [00:15:03]:
So I think just figuring out, like, finding your core groups So people, to connect with and then also knowing your resources and if you need something that At a critical level. But also, no, it doesn't have to be critical all the time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:16]:
I will echo what Samara just said because one of the things she just Talked about was getting involved and finding that community for yourself, and the community could be in your program. And especially if it's a full time program, And you're going to build that community with the core group of people you're going to be in courses with throughout your entire program. But if you're in a part time program, that community is a little bit fluid. So being able to find other communities that where you can connect with other like minded individuals is important And definitely something that will help you to find success and will support you in that success as you move Through your graduate education. So whether it's in one of the groups that that Samara just talked about, whether it's in some other kinda groups, It's finding the right place for yourself within your academic program, outside of your academic program that will help you to build that network for yourself, But also help you to build the support mechanisms that are going to be there throughout that educational experience. So I really appreciate you sharing that because I think that's so important and so important for students to for For any student, for anyone that is thinking about graduate education to think about it, because I think a lot of times, undergraduate students get drawn into it right away. And there's the campus life and the campus feel. And a lot of times, when you're going through graduate school, you're balancing a lot of different things, and the pressure is on, Especially when it comes to academic success and and and really focusing in on the On the on the academic components of the program, but there is student life that is available for graduate students too, and You can take part in anything that is happening on campus.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:07]:
So it's important for you to find that for yourself so that you can find your ultimate fit, But also your group of people and find your ability to be able to find holistic success, not just academic success For you as you go through that program. Now, Samira, as you think back to your own graduate education, as you think back to The conversations, the work that you do with students on a regular basis for people that are thinking about graduate school no matter what field that they're in, Are there some tips that you might offer them that would help them find success sooner?

Samara Hough [00:17:46]:
I think some of the things that may hold someone back are finding funding. And so I think finding out what fellowships or scholarships or what what, kinds of Funding opportunities that may exist within that those schools. Certainly, I actually won a scholarship. It was, like, the women of Wayne scholarship when I was a a graduate student, but those were things that I had to seek out, look for, find out library days, at the time of it well, back in the days when we had to go physically to the library. I mean, we still do, but But there was lots of researching around that, and I think there's certainly some pro depending upon whatever major you major in, there are some Organizations or foundations that will support you in your graduate program, your graduate degree. Like, for instance, SAMHSA, I know offers, like, a Fellowship for minority mental health workers or folks who are interested in mental health and in other organizations. But I think I would say kind of getting Your feet under you as it relates to funding support, getting those kinda shored up. And I think, 2, talking with Did some informational interviews.

Samara Hough [00:18:50]:
So I would say do some informational interviews with other people who have already gotten the degree that you're interested in Essentially, in seeing kinda, like, what were their journey, what were some things that they would have liked to do, or kind of what maybe some Challenges that they encountered or so that you can kind of have a plan of action if that happens with you. So one of the biggest things with social work is that licensing process. People are always asking about that. Right? So finding out, like, what kind of what that would look like for you postgraduate school obtaining those hours of supervision, what are some, like, tips or things when you think about the job market? So all those like, what would be marketable for you depending upon whatever career path that you're on. I remember talking with people who, for instance, were in IT and learning, like, what what are those certificates or things that you would need. And I know those things Change and evolve and, you know, we're in the age of AI, lots of things. So, like, finding out, like, what are some of the again, like, what are some of the gaps or needs in that particular field of choice that that would set you up for success like before at post graduation. And I think just enjoy the journey.

Samara Hough [00:19:53]:
I wanna say that part. Like, there's a lot of preparation. There's connection and finding out more, but I would just say enjoy the journey. There are definitely still professors that I remember Being in those classrooms and learning so much from them and continue to even in continuing education, like, there's some professors that that I just still admire to this day that are doing the work. So enjoy the journey. You know, soak it all up. Don't get too ahead of yourself before it's time, but enjoy enjoy the journey. Grad school is A great opportunity is different than undergrad.

Samara Hough [00:20:23]:
I feel like in my experience, it was like a deeper dive into where I really wanted to be. And I was I was a little anxious on being able to get to those courses that were really tied to, like, the clinical work and wanting to do that so so soon, but just enjoy the journey, I would say.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:39]:
I really appreciate that. Now if people wanna find out more about you, is there a place they can go?

Samara Hough [00:20:43]:
Well, I'm always available at the center, the Center For Gender While they were on 213 USEN, I often will speak with students. So if you're ever interested in social work or the field, you know, I'm definitely open to Chatting about those experiences. I've worked in both nonprofit and higher ed environments. So if you're interested in learning more about that, most of my history has been working with Survivors of sex and gender based violence. And so I can talk about that, like, what those experiences were and also working with with youth and families. So having Those lenses, if you're ever interested in learning more, you can stop by the office. You can also email me. I can definitely put my email address In the chat or in whatever, way to get connected, and I look forward to talking with you all.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:26]:
Well, Samara, I just wanna say thank you. And Samara did talk about her email address if you wanna reach out to her directly. Her email is samara, s a m a r a, lw@umich.edu. You can find her there and be able to shoot her a message if you have specific questions. Samara, thank you. Thank you for sharing your Story for walking us through this journey that you went on, and I wish you all the best. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint programs that will meet your needs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:04]:
For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon As we embark together on your graduate school journey, if you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flint gradoffice@umflint.edu.

Embarking on the journey of graduate education is an enriching and rewarding experience, but it also comes with its own set of financial challenges. In this comprehensive guide, we'll explore various avenues for securing financial support for graduate studies. From scholarships to assistantships, student loans to tax credits, Dr. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint, shares valuable insights and tips for navigating the complex financial landscape of graduate school.

Avenues for Financial Support

When it comes to funding graduate education, there are numerous avenues that students can explore. Dr. Lewis emphasizes the importance of being proactive and resourceful in seeking financial support. From scholarships and grants to assistantships and student loans, each avenue has its own set of considerations and application processes.

Navigating the Scholarship Landscape

Scholarships are an invaluable resource for graduate students, and Dr. Lewis provides key insights into navigating the scholarship landscape. He advises students to look for specialized scholarships based on their academic area and demographics. Additionally, he underscores the importance of crafting a compelling narrative in scholarship and grant applications, emphasizing the need for thoroughness and personalization.

Importance of Networking and Professional Associations

Dr. Lewis highlights the significance of networking within the academic community and tapping into funding opportunities through professional associations. By actively engaging with professional networks and associations, graduate students can gain access to valuable funding resources and opportunities for financial support.

Balancing Work, Internships, and Studies

Balancing work, internships, and studies is a crucial aspect of managing the financial demands of graduate education. Dr. Lewis emphasizes the importance of time management and making choices based on individual circumstances. Whether it's securing a graduate assistantship or pursuing internships, finding the right balance is key to a successful financial strategy.

Understanding Student Loans and Financial Aid

Navigating the landscape of student loans and financial aid can be complex, and Dr. Lewis provides clarity on the distinctions between subsidized and unsubsidized loans. He also underscores the availability of financial aid for both domestic and international students, with particular emphasis on achievement-based and need-based aid.

Exploring External Scholarships and Search Engines

To expand their financial options, Dr. Lewis encourages students to explore external scholarships available through various scholarship search engines. By setting up a profile and actively engaging with these platforms, students can discover scholarships that align with their academic and personal profiles.

Utilizing Tax Credits and Employer Benefits

In addition to traditional financial aid avenues, Dr. Lewis discusses the potential benefits of tax credits for graduate students and encourages seeking advice from tax professionals. He also underscores the importance of inquiring about employer educational benefits, such as tuition reimbursement or remission, as part of a comprehensive financial strategy.

As students embark on their graduate education journey, securing financial support is a critical aspect of their overall success. By leveraging scholarships, assistantships, student loans, and external funding opportunities, students can navigate the financial landscape of graduate school with confidence. Dr. Christopher Lewis's insights offer an invaluable roadmap for graduate students seeking to fund their educational pursuits.

In this comprehensive guide, we've explored the various avenues for securing financial support for graduate studies. From scholarships to assistantships, student loans to tax credits, these insights pave the way for a successful financial strategy in the pursuit of advanced education.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Okay, everyone. Thanks so much for being here today. My name is doctor Christopher Lewis. I'm the director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. And I'm really excited that you are here today to learn about how do you Pay for this. How do you fund graduate education? Sometimes one of the biggest stumbling blocks for people as they're thinking about going to graduate school is that price tag in trying to figure out for themselves, how do I actually pay for this and be able to get through this and not come out with with tons of debt? And and today, we're gonna be talking about some different things that you may be able to do to be able to take a look at different options, different opportunities that may be available that might be able to help you along the way. I am really excited that you're here today, and thank you for those of you that have been, introducing yourself in the chat. Feel free to keep doing that, and we may have some additional people that are joining us along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:10]:
But, but I feel free also if you have questions along the way, throw them in the chat. There's gonna be time at the end when we can When I can answer some further questions for you as well, but feel free to use that chat as a way to be able to to be able to ask your questions too. So, again, thank you so much for being here. Let's jump in. So we're what we're gonna be covering today, as I said, graduate school can be expensive. It can be something that that you definitely have to plan for and make sure that you are ready for as you're preparing, for that time that you will be in graduate school, whether it's 2 years, 3 years, or beyond, depending on the degree that you're looking at, we're We're gonna be talking about some different types of financial support that are available for graduate students. We're gonna also talk about how do you find support, how what kind of support It's out there. How do you find it? Where do you go to find that type of information? Are there tips? Are there strategies? Are there things that you can do to be able to Fund that degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:13]:
We'll be talk talking about that. And then overarching financing your degree, making sure that you make good financial decisions as you're going through graduate school as well. So let's jump right in. 1st and foremost, so as we are talking about Support through graduate school, one of the biggest amounts of support that is available for graduate students, Our scholarships and or fellowships. And as you look at different opportunities, and sometimes they're called assistantships as well. We'll Talk about those as well. There's a number of different ones, and I'm just gonna I'm gonna put a couple up here, and I'm gonna talk through them. So first and foremost, the FAFSA.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
If you are a domestic student inside the United States, as a domestic student, I encourage every graduate student to fill out the FAFSA. Even if you think you're not going to get any type of aid, fill it out. It's just like you probably did during your undergraduate days, but You will fill that out and that at times will make you eligible for some scholarships that are available on campus. Having that, you can always say no to any aid that is offered to you through that federal application. But you but if you don't have it and there are scholarships that are based off of FAFSA information, you would not be eligible And you would not be considered for those scholarships. So I always encourage you that if you are a domestic student, that going and being going and Filling out the FAFSA form early before you're planning to start submitting that to the institutions that you're planning to or you're thinking of attending And then looking at what the financial aid package that is sent back from the institution is is an important thing and definitely will help you to move forward. 2nd, individual scholarships individual scholarships at the schools themselves. One of the things that that every school has is individual scholarships.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:25]:
Some are donor based, some are school based, some are college based. You know, they are different across the board. We have specific scholarships here at the University of Michigan Flint that are Particular to specific programs or for graduates of University of Michigan Schools or if you're an international student, there's some scholarships that are available. And so you need to look at the individual you need to look at the individual school And the individual sites. Sometimes those scholarships are listed on the program page of your program. Sometimes you may find scholarship information on a overarching graduate school. So if the college that you're considering does have a graduate school you would want to take a look at. Is there financial aid information? Is there scholarship information that is there? They are going to be very clear about any scholarships that are available, especially if there are additional steps that you have to take To be able to be considered for scholarships.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:31]:
So for example, we have some scholarships here that are run through our Financial aid office. Many of them are are donor based or or if or scholarships that have been set up by specific individuals. And to be considered for those, there's a specific application that you have to fill out, and you have to apply by a certain date. And if you don't if you don't apply by those dates, you're not going to be considered for those specific scholarships. So you have to be very Careful and very clear about what are the scholarships, what how do you apply for them, what are the deadlines, and keeping track of those. I encourage you, and if you've listened to any of my past presentations before that I've given, when I talk about looking at different graduate schools, I talk about setting up that Google Sheet for yourself that allows for you to be able to set the program side by side and looking at All of the different cat all the different factors that are important to you. Now why is that important? Well, it's important because you wanna be able to look at each program Apples to apples, meaning that you want to make sure that each program is set side by side next to one another with the same criteria so you can review them. And I would encourage you to put information onto that spreadsheet for yourself that also Puts in the information about scholarships.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:01]:
So, again, then you have the dates there, you have the process, and you know what you have to do. You know, applying to graduate school is something that you have to be very you have to be very cognizant about in regards to being on On time, on track, and preparing yourself well to be able to, know exactly what you need to be doing in doing it at that right time. So so keep that in mind, keep track of that, and stay on top of it. So The third one here when you're talking about scholarships, fellowships is sometimes if you are working for an employer, Especially if you're inside the United States, many employers these days do offer some type of educational benefit. It might be a tuition Reimbursement, a tuition, a a tuition reimbursement, a tuition remission, a Scholarship. You know, there's lots of different opportunities that are out there and lots of different scholarships or educational benefits that Employers do offer. Not every employer offers that, but sometimes they are not very good at Telling their employees that they have those type of benefits. So asking your HR department, asking your employer, whoever it may be, On whether or not there is any type of educational benefits, especially if what you're planning to study is something that you are that will help you in the role that you're in or within the career trajectory that you're on within that company.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:38]:
All of that will help and will only prepare will will show them the commitment that you have to the company itself. So look into that. If it is a tuition reimbursement, basically, what that means would be is they may say, we will reimburse you up to 3 credit hours or 6 credit hours. So that would mean you'd have to pay up front and then put in the bill to the company prob and they may Say that you have to show your grade to show that you passed it, and then that that you get reimbursed after the fact. So those are some things to think about, in regards to to those. Now there are external scholarships as well, And external scholarships can are outside of the institution that you're thinking about. There's lots of different scholarship engines that are out there. I've listed a few here, Fastweb, CapEx, iGrad, Unigo, GoGrad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:31]:
There's a lot of different search engines, scholarship search engines that are out there, And you'll hear every once in a while company or these companies saying this or you'll hear it in the news that there's all this scholarship money that goes unaccounted for. And there's some truth truth to that. Now realize though that on these type of On these type of, search engines, you're going to be setting up a profile for yourself. They're gonna ask you lots of questions about yourself, and they're gonna try to match Different scholarships that might be a good fit for you. It does take time, and it does take effort. Some scholarships I'm gonna put in quotes are ones that you might have to write lengthy essays about or do some other pieces To be in competition with other students. But there are scholarships that are out there. So if you have the time, you're willing to put in the time, Going to these external places, putting your information in, and seeing what pops up is always a good thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:34]:
And once you're in the system, Usually, those systems will email you if there are additional scholarships that pop up as you move further toward your educational goal. So those are some things to think about as you think of scholarships and fellowships. Now I mentioned assistantships or there's teaching assistantships, there's research assistantships, and sometimes you'll just see Assistantships that are out there, typically, what that means is you are going to be brought in. These are Jobs, their positions that you are doing something for your for, for the university, for the professor for a professor, for And in for the for a unit of the institution, you're gonna be working, and they're going to be paying you to work. Now At every institution, the rules with that are a little bit different. At our institution, we have most of our pro most of our graduate students are eligible for Research assistantships. What that basically means is that you would apply. We have a on the link that you see here, on that link, There is a listing of any research assistantships that we have.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:50]:
They're called GSRA's, graduate student research assistantships, And you apply just like you would any job. But as you're looking through them, you're gonna see the faculty member, the research area, what they're looking for, And you would apply based on ones that you feel that you're qualified for. And then the faculty member will determine, Just like in a regular job, who they feel is the best fit, and they'll have you come on and do research with them. Now teaching assistantships, those are different. Usually, with those, you're going to be many times, Teaching assistants are going to be in PhD programs, and they're going to be working alongside of a faculty member, usually Teaching alongside a faculty member, or they may be teaching some undergrad courses. And as a part of their Time in that graduate program, they may have their tuition waived or they may get paid. You know, like I said, every institution is just a little bit different in that regard. And as so so as you look at that, and then there are assistantships.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:59]:
I know personally, when I went through my master's degree, I was in a program that required assistantships because I was in a College student personnel administration program. So I was working in higher education. So I worked for the office of admissions as a graduate assistant, And my tuition was taken care of, and I was paid at for the work that I was doing. So Every institution is just a little bit different. What they offer is a little bit different. Depending on your program, depending on the the the Requirements of the program, you have to look at all of those different factors because all of those will impact how you can pay for your graduate school. So I already talked about this, but a graduate assistantship is a salaried student employment opportunity. And then I already talked about that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:56]:
So let's move on. So as we look at other types of financial support that are out there, There are grants, sometimes research funding. So as you as you look at the different opportunities, different schools, different programs, You're gonna find that there are grants, which is free money, money that is offered to you from the institution that you do not have to pay back, and there at times could be research funding. Some units will have Research grants that are happening, and they have money to hire students to be able to do research. Those could be through a GSRA type position, or they could be something else at that institution. But, again, each Individual program is going to be a little bit different, but you do need to look into that, and you need to ask these questions As you are going through this process. So if you don't see the information, ask the question. Say, are there scholarships? Where can I find out information about scholarships or assistantships? Is there research opportunities available? Will those research opportunities be paid or not? These are all good questions and ones that you should be asking As you're going through the process of identifying the school, but also as you're trying to whittle down what the True Price is going to be for you if you do attend a specific school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:31]:
So Student loans and financial aid. I already talked about the FAFSA form, so I will, I will talk a little bit about that. But a couple things that you wanna definitely keep in mind is that there are loans that are available for domestic, for international students. Individual institutions may have loans available for international students, some may not. Some, some international students are able to access international loans through outside vendors, but it depends on if the institution those vendors as well. So those are all things you have to be be thinking about. And domestic students, definitely, You want to put in your FAFSA. If you want student loans from the federal government, you have to fill out the FAFSA form.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:22]:
So those pieces are definitely important. The biggest thing that you definitely want to make sure that you understand is your loan limits, especially if you are a domestic Students, as if you took out large amount of loans in your undergrad and you're now looking at taking out Large amounts alone for your grad, there are loan limits that apply. And I have a link here, and I'm gonna share this this presentation With you so that you have it and you'll have these links. But it is important to understand what those limits are because you don't want to hit that cap and then not be able to, cover the cost that you have coming before you. So as we're talking about loan limits, you're looking at a 138,500 for domestic graduate or professional students. No more than 65,500 of the of that can be subsidized loans. The benefit of subsidized versus unsubsidized. Subsidized have have a better they're being subsidized by the federal government, so that means that the amount that the Usually, the interest rate on those loans is gonna be much less, because they're being subsidized.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:38]:
So, and then that graduate aggregate limit includes all federal loans received for your undergraduate study as well. So you need to keep all of that in mind because too often students are are they're coming up on that limit for the federal loan limit, And then they're having to look outside for other loans, and you just want to make sure you have a plan to be able to to be able to Cover everything and be able to then afterwards be on a plan for repayment to be able to get through your graduate study. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about, again, how financial aid works. So financial aid is split up in between 2 different categories based on the reason the money is awarded. So it's important to understand that. So you have achievement based aid. So the that aid that's typically awarded based on merit, your skill, talent, ability, and and It may be grades, you know, etcetera.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:42]:
Whereas you have then need based aid that is provided the students who demonstrate in some way some type of financial need, whether that's through the FAFSA form or some other type of, way that the institution is determining or looking at financial need. So you have merit achievement based or merit based, And you have need based aid. Now financial aid programs do provide support Or I do provide support for students to help them meet the cost of obtaining their education, But you have to also realize that funding for the programs are provided by the federals federal and state governments, but and but also There is some funding that comes from colleges or universities that they've set up specifically, like I talked about, in regard to university based Scholarships in that regard. Okay. So, I kind of already mentioned some of these already. I'm just kind of remaking sure that you that I hit these points home, that there are different types of scholarships that are available. Like at our institution, we have a whole list of those scholarships that you can apply for and that you can be considered for. Now it's a long list, and it will take you quite some time to go through and look at the criteria and be able to tell.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:09]:
You don't have To go through, you don't have to specifically apply for specific scholarships, but there is a process at our institution at least that you apply by a certain date to be for any of those scholarships that are that you're eligible for as a graduate student. You can also go through and see the different scholarships, see how many Scholarships are out there. Look for specific criteria. See if there's scholarships for those criteria as well. So In that list in the top link there, there are specialized scholarships that are based on your academic area, Demographics of yourself, because individuals or companies or, Or units on campus have developed these scholarships specifically for specific groups of individuals. And it might be You're just a grad student, but it could also be you're a student going into physical therapy or a student going into computer science, And you decide that you are going to, that you are going to, Make sure that you are, are eligible for those different types of scholarships too. Definitely reach out to the financial aid office if you've got any Questions along the way. If you are are a little bit lost in trying to figure that out for yourself, I highly, highly encourage you to, I highly, highly encourage you to, to reach out to your financial aid office.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:38]:
They are more than willing to Talk with you, to work with you, to help you, to understand the process, and understand what type of what type of financial opportunities may exist for you as a student as well. So let's walk through these different opportunities, different ways, and Strategies for funding your graduate education. So 1st and foremost, you want to think about the, I talked about external scholarships. So there's the scholar those scholarship search engines. Take the time prior to applying, prior to even going out there. Look and see what kind of scholarships are out there, and especially once you've determined what type of program you want to go into and you know a little bit more on that regard. Build some relationships. Make sure that you're networking, that you're building relationships within the academic community in the area that you have an interest in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:32]:
By doing that, You may be able to tie to tap into other things. Sometimes professional associations will have specific scholarships. And as a student, you could join as a student member and potentially have access to that. Sometimes those scholarships are going to be for individuals only once they're in a program. But, again, even as a Post 1st year student, you could take advantage of funding opportunities through those professional associations or other Entities that are offering scholarships out there for people going into the field that you have an interest in. So making sure that you do look at that is also going to be important. You're going to want to look at how are you going to be balancing your work, your internships, your studies, because as you're going through your graduate education, there's going to be a lot thrown at you. And if you are going to also have an assistantship, you you just have to figure out that balance for yourself to figure out, okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:40]:
Yes. I need the funding. I'm going to take that assistantship that was offered to me. That's 20 hours a week. Well, if I spend 20 hours a week here, How am I going to get my studying done for my classes? How long is that going to take? Do I have other Opportunities to get involved in other things along that, among or with that or not. Those are all questions that you need to be asking, and you need to really create kind of a a time management or a a kind of a sheet for yourself of the week To be able to know what you know, how you're going to be able to fit everything in because because that sometimes there's students that will decide, I'm not gonna take that Assistantship. Yes. It was gonna help me, but I just can't balance it with my family, or I can't balance it with this other thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:28]:
And or Or they they make other decisions based on those those same type of internal dialogues, but also external dialogues with others. You want to make sure that you have a budget and that you're managing your finances well. Too often, we see students that are maxing out on loans if they if loans are available, they're and And because they're they're available to them, and the problem with that is that then At the end, you come out with a vast amount of debt that becomes hard to pay off in the end. Now if that's the case, you know, if as you're going along, you wanna make sure you're making good decisions. So Budget your money. So if you are taking loans out, if you're if you're getting paid for an from an assistantship, just like you would budget within your own life And and looking at the you know, what is what are you paying out? What is coming in? And How can you budget that the best that you can to spend as little as you can to be able to get through everything And not come out with a large amount of debt. So being able to budget throughout, we, here at the University of Michigan Flint, We we've worked with different agencies that that provide different opportunities for students to be able to, to get some really good insight into budgeting, into preparing, making sure that you're not maxing out a credit card on top of that. You know, putting things on, you know, taking out other loans, you know, doing doing things to try and pay down other things as you can, even if it's incremental, so you're paying down as you go along.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:24]:
All of those things are things that you can do that will make big impacts in the future. K. So as you are, as you're thinking about grants and scholarships, many times oh, hold on. Many times when you're going through grants and scholarships, there's going to be opportunities for you to be able to do some writing. And as you're going through these types of, these types of scholarship applications or grant applications, You want to be able to make sure that you are are are taking the time to craft A good narrative that will help to tell your story. And and you don't wanna do this you don't wanna wait till the last minute. You want to take the time to be able to proofread, have others proofread, and really think about your answers And come up with a very solid answer. Sometimes you have a a a large number of words to use.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:33]:
Sometimes it's a very short amount of words, so you have to be very succinct in in what you're saying. So couple these are a couple of different writing tips, some things to think about as you're thinking about Graduate school and, grants and scholarships for graduate school. So as you're answering these questions, You wanna develop a format on whatever prompt is offered to you to be able to allow for you to organize your thoughts. It might be an outline, you know, where your bullet pointing the different things you want to hit. But, again, this is a narrative. This is you telling a story, And you want to make sure that it flows well because when someone reads it, you want them to follow the narrative And follow the story from beginning to end, and you wanna lead them along from beginning to end. You wanna make it your own? Don't use the, you know, cliche, cliche or boilerplate language. Use your own Experiences your own language.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:38]:
Please don't use chat gpt to try to write it Because, you know, they wanna see your personality, and they want to understand who you are. So by even using AI, that's not going to help in in bringing out your own personality. If they are asking specific questions or they specifically say they want to hear the following things, Make sure that you address all the questions. Make sure that you're answering the prompt. You don't wanna copy and paste an answer from a previous application that doesn't answer it. So that's why I say take the time. Even if you think you could tweak something that you've used before, Really read that question again. Have someone else read the question and have them read your answer too because you wanna make sure that you're answering the question fully.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:35]:
Proofread. Proofread. Proofread. Proofread. I'm gonna say that many as many times as I can because and and I always, when I'm proofreading, I'll write it. I'll have someone else read it. But then I also read it out loud because many times when you read something out loud, You will catch things that you didn't catch the 1st time. So that's also important and and definitely something that People can get not selected for scholarships or for grants because of their writing Or because of, not answering all the questions, you know, so paying attention to detail and making sure that you're being You're being consistent in that regard.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:21]:
So, again, take your time. Give yourself at least a week to work on a personal statement. So that's not e so that that's a personal statement for applying to to college, but also personal statements or answers to questions for these types of scholarships and grants as well. So let's talk a little bit about aid and how it's determined. So, typically, when we're talking about the cost of attendance at a school, what that Includes is your estimated family contribution or your EFC. And the federal government here in the United States just changed EFC, but I still use it because I think it I think it makes a little more sense. But EFC estimated family contribution. So what Typically, you are going to be able to you and your family are going to be able to put toward your education.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:16]:
Many of you are beyond the age of, of when your parents would consider you on their taxes, Especially if you're domestic. So if that's the case, then the estimate the expected family contribution really becomes what you can contribute. And then it's gonna look at scholarships or other resources, things that the institution is offering you or that, that they the institution has been has been told that that you have been awarded through other agencies. And then those 2 pieces combined will equal Your need of aid. So it might they may say, hey. This student needs $30,000 for the year. And if it and that would be the need for aid. So then they're going to the look at, okay, how can we package that, and offer something to a student.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:10]:
So the cost of attending, your budget, it it so what you see and I say on SIS, It's really your student information system. So we use a system called the SIS banner, but there are many different systems depending on the school that you attend. And the budget is based off of an estimate of the cost of attending Here at U of M Flint, and then it it may have different amounts based on Room and board, whether you're because there's gonna be questions of are you living on campus? Are you living on your own? Are you living with your parents? You know, those type of things, and they'll they'll adjust The overarching budget that they use to consider for each student and, and then dependent dependent students. Like I said, most most graduate students are not considered dependent students. But if you were considered a dependent student, they may be asked to provide a lease agreement if, to document that. Okay. So, how your aid is Also, how in how your aid is determined when you're talking about the estimated family contribution. This for for dependent students, if you are a dependent student, the The parent contribution is still a part of this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:26]:
Otherwise, it's looking really at your contribution. It's gonna be looking at and if you're married, it would be the family contribution As a whole, or if it's just you, you know, they will look at your just your individual contribution and determine But your estimated family contribution could be when it comes to your finance the the the financial aid or the package that is provided. They also are going to be looking at scholarships. And we do encourage students to to look at scholarships and to Consider scholarships whether it's here at U of M Flint or other places, as, you know, because and then also One of the questions on the financial aid form is whether or not you are willing to, be considered for work study. That's not as common with grad students, but sometimes there may be some work study available. So if you are a domestic student and you fill out the FAFSA form, make sure that you click yes. It doesn't mean you have to take it, but if you click yes, then it makes you eligible for work study. The Benefit of work study is that you would get paid like any other student for the position that you're in, But it's a it's it's allows for some federal money to be used toward paying you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:49]:
And it then allows for more students to be able to work on campus because you they are taking a portion of the burden off of the institution to pay, And instead, it's a joint effort between the federal government and the the institution to pay you as a work study student. There's some great cost calculators that are out there that will help you to calculate your own estimated family contribution, that I would encourage you to take a look at. These are 5 different ones that are out there. There's a number of other resources that are available for students when they are, when they are, That, you know, based on whatever your your personal needs are, on our financial aid page at the University of Michigan Flint, we do offer quite a few different resources that I encourage you to check out as well. So As we're as we're looking at, aid and thinking about aid, typically, at your institution and I'm gonna give you information about Our school, but at most institutions, you're going to need to be able to show that you have a minimum of 4 credits that are counting toward your degree to be eligible for loans, and and that includes Grad PLUS loans. Now When we look at this for aid, you could see there's a difference between undergrad and graduate students. So for full time graduate students, it's over 8 credits, whereas at for an undergrad, it's 12 credits. So the expectation is different.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:34]:
And we say that you need at least 4 credits, which is half time To be considered as aid eligible. So if you are looking at a graduate program where you're going to be going part time, You'd be looking at anywhere from 4 to 7 credits that you'd be taking, which would make you aid eligible for most, for most scholarships that have that criteria in place. So it's important to understand that as well. Other thing, that I wanted to point out here is that, especially for domestic students as you're thinking about, about different types of Loans, and scholarships, but also the cost of college that as a graduate student, you may be eligible For either the lifetime learning credit or the tuition and fees deduction on your taxes. So You have to kind of talk to your tax person about that, because if you do have any taxable income from Scholarships or fellowships, and you receive some type of a stipend that may end up, getting getting having to get placed on your taxes. So when you're looking at these 2 things, couple things to keep in mind, lifetime learning credit refunds 20% of up to $10,000 of qualified expenses, providing, you with up to about $2,000, on your taxes. And then there's a tuition and fees deduction, which allows you to deduct up to $4,000, but It depend you have to look at the definition of what higher education expenses are. So that typically is going to be Your books, supplies, other, well, not books and supplies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:27]:
So it's it's typically your tuition, whereas books, Supplies, other equipments are not usually deductible. So room but room and board, in room and board, insurance, medical Medical expenses, personal expenses are also not usually qualified expenses. So usually it's gonna be your tuition for the most part. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time today. Thanks for being here, and wish you all the best. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if You are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:05]:
For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflute.eduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at flintgradoffice@umflint.edu.

Graduate school can be a transformative journey, filled with challenges and opportunities for growth. In this blog post, we delve into the experiences and insights of Rehan Kodil, a Master of Business Administration (MBA) student specializing in Organizational Leadership at the University of Michigan Flint. Through Rehan's journey, we'll explore the reasons for pursuing graduate education, the choice of concentration, adapting to the demands of graduate school, and valuable tips for success.   Choosing Graduate School After completing his undergraduate degree in 2013, Rehan gained work experience at Morgan Stanley, fostering a desire for further education. However, the decision to pursue graduate school was delayed due to personal and professional commitments. It wasn't until 2021, during the challenges of the pandemic, that Rehan committed to his educational aspirations, particularly drawn to the business program at the University of Michigan Flint. Rehan's determination to advance his career and personal growth serves as a testament to the importance of recognizing the right timing and aligning one's passions with further education.   Choosing a Concentration Rehan's decision to specialize in organizational leadership was influenced by his professional experiences. His realization that his interests lay with human resources and leadership, as opposed to his previous stint in finance at Morgan Stanley, sheds light on the significance of self-awareness and aligning educational pursuits with one's strengths and passions. This exemplifies the value of choosing a concentration that resonates with personal aspirations and professional goals.   Adapting to Graduate School Transitioning to graduate school after years in the workforce can be daunting. Rehan encountered challenges in adapting to a new learning environment, but found support from faculty, academic advisors, and peers. His journey showcases the importance of resilience, adjusting study habits, and embracing the guidance and resources provided by the academic community.   Involvement in Campus Life Rehan's involvement in student government underscores the value of engaging in campus activities beyond academic pursuits. This involvement exposed him to real-world scenarios, honing his negotiation, communication, and leadership skills. By stepping out of his comfort zone, he was able to apply these experiences to his studies, enhancing his overall educational journey.   Preparing for the Future In addition to academic knowledge, Rehan underscores the importance of developing practical skills that will differentiate him in his career journey. Through projects, case studies, and real-world applications, Rehan cites the development of communication, negotiation, and problem-solving skills as crucial takeaways from his program. These skills are instrumental in preparing for the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead in his professional life.   Tips for Success Based on his experiences, Rehan offers valuable tips for those considering or currently in graduate school. These include the importance of self-awareness in choosing a field of study, maintaining a work-life balance, establishing connections with mentors and academic advisors, and proactive engagement with career development resources. Rehan's tips offer actionable insights for navigating the demands of a graduate program while maximizing learning and networking opportunities.   Conclusion Rehan's journey through graduate school provides a firsthand account of the challenges and triumphs that many students encounter. His insights underscore the value of determination, adaptability, and the pursuit of personal and professional growth. Through his experiences, Rehan's tips serve as a guiding light for prospective and current graduate students, navigating the path to success in their educational and professional endeavors.   In conclusion, Rehan's journey through graduate school provides a firsthand account of the challenges and triumphs that many students encounter. His insights underscore the value of determination, adaptability, and the pursuit of personal and professional growth. Through his experiences, Rehan's tips serve as a guiding light for prospective and current graduate students, navigating the path to success in their educational and professional endeavors.  

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Jennifer Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you, to be able to walk with you along this path that you're on because I know that You are on a journey. You're on a journey. You're whether you're at the very beginning and you're just starting to think about graduate school or You're a little bit further down the road. Maybe you've applied and you're waiting to hear back if whether you got accepted or you're in a graduate program And you're working through and you're taking your classes and maybe that light at the end of the tunnel is getting a little bit closer. But I love being able to be on this journey with you talk to you to help you to think about the things that are going to help you to find success Sooner.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]:
That's what this podcast is all about. It's all about helping you to find success in this graduate school journey no matter What type of graduate school journey you're on? We talk to students that are in business programs, law school, med school. We've talked to people that are studying computer science or are working in the field in many different areas, their PhDs or their PTs. Lots of different people with lots of different journeys, but the common thread is that all of them have gone before you or are going through it at the same time with you and are here to help you along that path. Today, we've got another great guest with us. Rehan Codill is with us, and Rehan is a master of business administration student studying organizational leadership at the University of Michigan Flint. I'm really excited to have him here for him to share his journey with you and to have him on the show. Rehan, thanks so much for being here.

Rehan Kodil [00:02:03]:
Thank you, It's my pleasure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:05]:
It's my pleasure having you here today too. Thank you for being here. One of the first things that I always love to do is be able to Turn the clock back in time because I think it's always important to understand where you were and where you are now. So somewhere along the journey, You you did your undergraduate work, and somewhere along the journey, you made a decision that you wanted to go to graduate school. What were the reasons that Made you choose that you wanted to go to graduate school.

Rehan Kodil [00:02:30]:
So I completed my undergrad in, like, back in 2013. And right after that, I started from Morgan Stanley because I wanted to get some experience before doing my postgrad. And the plan has been there, on my mind since a long time. But I think once you start working, you know, you get into the rhythm of that, and then you don't wanna come back to study. But I was like, no. I said to myself Okay. I've got enough experience, and the only regret that I have is that I should have done this much earlier when I was a bit more younger. But then what happened is school COVID happened, and the borders were shot.

Rehan Kodil [00:03:02]:
And so because of a lot of other personal things as credit card did it. But, In the year 2021, I made a decision that, you know, this year, I want to, like, really focus on this, And I applied to a lot of other universities. The University of Michigan is what attracted me the the business program that I'm currently in. I then And you even got in touch with a lot of, alum and a lot of current students who were there, in the graduate program. And all those things are are like what they said and then what I when When I did my own research, it it attracted to me. It was, and that's how I decided that I wanna do this course. And I think that, University of Michigan being a big brand, it, like, holds a lot of value, and there is and more than just academics also, there is, like, There are so many things to look forward to. Like, even we have our job opportunities, career fairs, and, so many people, like, get to help the students.

Rehan Kodil [00:03:56]:
So it's been, like, 2022, I came here, and I see a drastic change in myself. My approach was studying a subject like how it was many years back during my undergrad is different. The approach of the faculty, the The professors, teachers, all have been very helpful. And, also, like, the certain subject that I'm doing, the course also helps I'll definitely, like, enhance and develop my personality more because certain subjects we have that we have to negotiate, with people and get to know other people. So it makes We get out of my comfort zone. I am very happy that I chose this program and the major organization, leadership. So yep.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:35]:
So you're in a program that has many different concentration areas. You chose organizational leadership. Why did you choose organizational leadership versus Other concentrations? What was it about that concentration that made you say this is the right one for me?

Rehan Kodil [00:04:49]:
So I, as I said earlier, like, I I started up at Morgan Stanley in finance. And, what what I realized that I wasn't really enjoying finance. And but at the same time, I was Trying to discover, like, what I'm really good at, what I really enjoy, and that was, like, something to do with organization leadership, which is also known as, human resources. And, so of all the other considerations that I went to, I what what attracted me the most was, the MBA in organization leadership. When I when I went through the subjects and, the main concentration subject, I like besides the prerequisites and all that, and when I graduate, I I realized that, okay, this is something that I really enjoy. This is something that I wanna pursue and continue Other rather than, you know, doing it in finance or any other, concentration that I don't. So, you human, organization leadership is what attracted me because I see myself, as a future leader, in in an I believe that I have those, qualities as, as well. Not not just because of, the studies, and the subject that I'm learning, but also I I am part of student government also as a director.

Rehan Kodil [00:06:01]:
So I am already, like, Using, in it's in, like, beside not just in academy, but also in the practical experience that I have. So yep.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:11]:
Now I know that You have been able to find success in this graduate school journey. You've been able to move forward. You're continuing to move forward, working toward your graduation coming up In the near future, as you transitioned into graduate school And you think back to that right now, what did you have to do to find what did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And as you went through graduate school, what did you have to do to maintain your success throughout this entire graduate school journey?

Rehan Kodil [00:06:45]:
So one of the things was that I completely had to change my approach, towards studying. Like, how, like, Couple of years back, I I wasn't that serious. You know, like, during my undergrad and all. So and I never really get time to study. So That is something that I I changed my approach also, like and one other the the most difficult thing was that getting time to study after working, after working so much. But I had that fear, but once I started studying okay. Initially, the couple of weeks was difficult, but then once the professors And the faculty was so helpful, and that they made you feel, like, comfortable. Okay.

Rehan Kodil [00:07:22]:
You know what? Relax. It's you know, there are it's not just you. There are many others like you also coming to study after a long time. So what I would say that the transition was a bit difficult, but I saw the the faculty and The subjects also that I studied being so interesting and so many resources that help offered by the university, like for my leadership programs, also The academic adviser that I have was, like, more than an academic adviser, they were like a mentor, a friend. All those people, like, they helped me, and They made that transition, which and I really felt, but in in the early stage, which is natural world typical. They made it easy. So now it's like now when I look back, I'm like, I was really worried about that, so that's how it is now. I feel more confident now.

Rehan Kodil [00:08:04]:
Of course. So, yes, the transition was difficult, but I didn't panic. I prepared myself I said that I'm here for this particular reason, and I should change my approach and my attitude. And I always dedicate, like, The weekends to my study, like because I don't work on weekend. And sometimes even, like, during the day, when I get done early with work, when I have nothing much to do, I always I make sure that I'm Spending some time, like, on my own study, whether it's completing an assignment or doing some research or just learning more about the stuff.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:33]:
Now I know that you've also gotten very involved on campus, getting involved with student life and student government, and not every graduate student chooses to do that. What What have you found in getting involved in this way? How has that helped you to be able to find success in the studies And in the program that you're in.

Rehan Kodil [00:08:56]:
That was something that I really thought about that. There are no graduate students in this, that. Will I be able to, like, manage so many things over? Because sometimes it can be too much, and it and sometimes it does feel like that also, like previously. But I thought that, You know, just coming here for academics and not getting to know your peers, your colleagues, or the other People important people like yourself that are there in the university, the senior people also. So that is why I said that it is important to join, like, such an organization like student government, where you you make your connections also and get to know people and get to know, like, what is happening at the in the university and how is it helping in my studies. So, like, for example, I can I I'll give you an example? We have many meetings and brainstorming sessions with our colleagues in school and government. Sometimes there may there may be an argument that you have to disconnect me or to someone else. So it is teaching you a lot, And it is preparing you also for the real world in a way.

Rehan Kodil [00:09:52]:
Like, okay. This may be a scenario when you go into the real world tomorrow. So how are you gonna deal with it? And how I applied this into my studies is, like, for example, I have a subject called negotiation, where we have to negotiate with another person. It was part of our exercise. And for me, that went very well because I'm used to these negotiations and all in the work that I do in student government, whether it is to something over there. It is definitely just listening to someone else's idea or proposal. So what what it taught me, it has been with so many people. It taught me, like, how to deal with How to deal with things and not be, you know, just getting angry or it taught me, like, how to be more calmer and be a good listener.

Rehan Kodil [00:10:30]:
So that's one of the things that I learned there government that I use that I use in the in my academics, like, in that certain subject, that is negotiation management. So that is how it has helped me. And Other than that, I always make sure that I find time to balance everything. If I feel that, okay, that something is getting too much, I always Reach out to my colleagues in school government and say that, hey. My I have my academic skills. I need to focus on that. I won't be able to attend this meeting, That meeting, I will be able to do this project. And I say it in advance, not like last moment.

Rehan Kodil [00:11:00]:
They have been pretty good. You know? They they understand that nobody forces anyone do any tool. But that being said, I also believe that when you're part of this organization and I know that everyone has different personalities, but I feel that It is important for you to, like, get out of your comfort zone and join any organization. It doesn't have to be student government, but do something, like for The campus do something, like, for your other colleagues, maybe, like, other internationals who are coming and who may need help or who may not have that personality that you have. So, you you can become an inspiration for them. Like, okay. Hey. Listen.

Rehan Kodil [00:11:32]:
You can study, and you can do these things as well as long as you're able to balance out

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]:
Now you're getting closer to the end of your program. And along with what you're learning inside of the class, you're also learning other Skills are the things that are going to help you to prepare you for the next step in your career. Talk to me about that, and what have you found that the program has helped you to do that is going to help you stand apart from others as you're looking at your next step in your career.

Rehan Kodil [00:12:03]:
I think the very fact that this Program is, like, is teaching us and is giving us a a lot of practical experience. Like, for example, it is not just, okay, come do your assignments. Just submitted. Give you an example of what this program is making me do is it is making me getting out of my comfort zone. We have projects and all Case studies and all that we have to work with. Sometimes it can be, like, a bit difficult. It can be challenging because we might not like everybody certain people might not cooperate, but that is the very thing of this. That is it's teaching you to get along with who are tough, who are very difficult to negotiate You have to, like, find strike.

Rehan Kodil [00:12:37]:
You have to, like, sit down, negotiate with them, and find a way out. So and I have projects in many of the subjects that, I have done so far. And now even in this winter semester, I have and I look forward to all of them. Some in the past have been challenging, but I confidently, like, with the help of the others, we overcame that. So the skills that it is giving me before I head out Outside like, the real world is that it's giving me, of course, communication skills, negotiation skills also. Like, it is teaching me how to be patient rather than, you know, being a hothead and just Losing my school is teaching me how to be patient, how to be more to be able to become a good listener and observer, come to a solution in a Am I capable here rather than, like, fighting or doing something, like, that you shouldn't be doing. And besides that, like, also, it has given me a lot of confidence, Which I particularly didn't have in the past because in my undergrad, we didn't have, like, such such classes that I'm having now. It was just, like, If you are exams, let's go do a project.

Rehan Kodil [00:13:33]:
Not much research at all. So what this has made me do is, of course, it was challenging, and it is challenging, but There are a lot of positives. It is preparing me for it is making me better, boosting my confidence, making me communicate with people even though, like, It is even though it has been difficult, it's because I'm a shy person. So it is helping me become I think it'll bring my confidence making me get out of my comfort zone. So they're making me improve my communication skills because it is a mandate of this program that you have to, do projects and all case studies and all those things. So it it has it it has helped helped me a lot. And I think what will make me standout is the the very fact that the the skills that I learned, whether it be a communication skill or, how to approach a certain situation, Like, without so to have a debate, but in a peaceful way, not like create a scene or something just to be more patient. And also the fact that It has increased my knowledge in a lot of other subjects that I previously didn't know even from the ones that I have studied before because There are so many new things, so many additional new things.

Rehan Kodil [00:14:41]:
Some things that were taught back then in my undergrad are different from how it is here, a a different approach, The approach of my colleagues, the other students, the approach of the professors. So all those things, I take it as a learn besides just getting us a degree and a certificate. So I think all those I consider key takeaways that will make me stand out with this degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:01]:
Now as you consider the end of your graduate degree And as it's education that you have been having thus far, and you think about other students that are thinking about graduate school in general, What are some tips that you might offer others considering graduate school and graduate education that'll help them to find success?

Rehan Kodil [00:15:19]:
I think, tips that I would offer is That one is that decide what you really want to do, what you like, respective of and if you're probably you're passionate about it or not. And it could be something that you developed something recently. It is not that, okay, you might have worked in a different stream or a different industry, but you want to change it. It is I think it is fine as long as You know what it is that is that you like. So 1 the first thing the tip would be that decide, like, this is the stream that you want to get into, the the major. And as I said, like, if you are someone who is coming to grad school, like, after a long time, which could be challenging, like, after a gap or something, it will be challenging. But if you decide to, like, interest and put your mind to it. And initially, of course, there will be those difficult periods.

Rehan Kodil [00:16:04]:
But once you're in the flow and once you start attending those classes and you start meeting your academic adviser, talking to your professors regularly, and, like, with their colleagues that out there, it will help you. So I think one of the tips that I would offer is that not just to be there because just to complete the program, but to also see get to know the the faculty, the academic advisor, everyone because all of them will help you in this program. They have those experiences also. And, so so my other tip would be that make sure that you're interacting with everyone, not just, you know, just there for studies. Yeah. I completed this at going home. You know? Make sure that you're keeping in touch with everyone, asking them questions. And besides that, it would be that if you're Someone who's working and during graduation that you just have to and studying, then you have to maintain a work life balance.

Rehan Kodil [00:16:56]:
And you have to, like, plan your schedule and things in such a way that one is that one is not like, you're not giving visits to more visits one thing and Not at all to another thing. You have to make sure that they are being balanced. So that means that you have to, like, have that okay. These these these days I'm going to be but I have work, so I won't be able, I won't be able to focus that much on my studies, but dedicate, like, few days. Like, if you're off on the weekends, make sure that Saturday, Sunday, At least, like, for 3, 4 hours, you are dedicating it to your academy. And if at all if it's an emergency, like, let's say that there's an exam coming up, and then You make sure that you take those leads in advance for those days so that you can prepare for those exams. So my other tip would be that maintain a work life balance so that it will eventually help. And the other tip is that not to stress too much or overtake.

Rehan Kodil [00:17:46]:
And And I'm saying this because this has really helped me is to always meet your academic adviser at least once every time. It can be in person or in Zoom. I can tell you this from my personal experience that had it not been for my, academic adviser who has been so helpful to me, I would be lost, to be honest. I don't think I would be so confident, and, yeah, I would either be because they guide you. Of course, you have to do all the hard work, but they guide you. They tell you that, okay, you're not headed in the right direction, All are doing very well. So I always make sure that I am in touch with my academic advisor, whether it's for registration, whether it is something that is bothering me about a certain subject or the course, Anything. They're always there to help you too.

Rehan Kodil [00:18:25]:
That is one important thing that I like is that during this course, like in your graduate school, make sure that you are in touch with your academic adviser. And the other one would be to get in touch. Like, we have mentoring programs as well. So if you don't like, if someone is not comfortable, like, doing it formally, they can Also, like, reach out to the former alumni, like, who who are there on LinkedIn or if they can, like, get in touch with someone, like, at At the university, we will tell them, okay. Now this person has studied this. Get in touch with those people. Like, ask them how was their experience. What are the challenges that they face? How did they overcome that? What did they do differently? That will also help you to make a certain decision on how to approach a certain thing.

Rehan Kodil [00:19:05]:
And And, they can also guide you. So I I believe that it is always important to have, have that kind of a mentor as well. And the other thing would be, which is something that I recently I'm doing a lot is, like, I think every program has their own career development manager, and We have, like, school of management as Justin's. So, also, like, when you are studying and you you it is better to, like, think about your future as well, like, where you see yourself going with the degree. And what I think is that you have to start planning it right now. So, like, let's say even if your course is 3 years more to go, 2 years more to go, it's better to meet with this career development manager. In my case, it's Justin Skibit. But for everyone else, it would be different.

Rehan Kodil [00:19:49]:
They will help you tell them that this is what you're looking for. This is what you want to get into. He has helped me a lot. So I'm telling you this from experience With, like, interview skills, getting out to putting in a kind word, getting out to the recruiters. So when you're about to graduate, You are ready, like, for the world. You already have a job or maybe you have many offers. You already have the skills that that you got from the, from your Academic program. You have the connections also.

Rehan Kodil [00:20:14]:
So, basically, you have all the weapons that you need before you before you head out. So that is another thing that I would say. And one other thing that I would mention. Again, this also I know it's not possible for everyone because everybody some have families here, some have Multiple jobs, but at least if they can make sure to come on campus also, at least, like, for 1 lecture, that will also make a bit. I know that today we are in online. COVID happened and all those But just to come to class maybe just for 1 lecture, I think doesn't do any wrong because it is good to have a fact physical Your presence as well where your professors lie there. It is much more easier to communicate with them when they are light in front of you. Also get to know the others as well Besides just saying hello on Zoom, so and the best thing is that if you are in the building, you could even just walk up to the office and meet your academic adviser also for all you know.

Rehan Kodil [00:21:04]:
And you you can talk to them about it on any other important office that is that you want to go to. So that is another tip that, so this is Well,

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:12]:
Rehan, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today. Thank you for sharing all these tips and things that you have found to help you To help others along their own journey, and I wish you all the best.

Rehan Kodil [00:21:22]:
Thank you, sir. It was my pleasure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:23]:
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs If you are interested in continuing your education, whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflute.eduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon As we embark together on your graduate school journey, if you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at flint gradoffice@umflint.edu.