Valley of Depth – Détails, épisodes et analyse

This week on Pathfinder, we are joined by Chris Morales, Partner at Point72 Ventures, for a discussion on venture capital’s role in shaping the space and defense technology landscape. 

In this episode, Chris provides a detailed overview of Point72 Ventures’ strategic approach to investing, drawing on his background as a former naval officer and his experience in venture capital. The conversation covers key trends and challenges facing the space and defense sectors, with a focus on how startups can navigate this evolving ecosystem.

In addition, we discuss:

• Point72 Ventures’ investment framework and focus on emerging technologies critical to national security
• The growth of the space economy, from the adoption of proliferated LEO architectures to in-space mobility innovations
• Evaluating companies across different stages of maturity
• The role of government programs and non-dilutive funding
• SpaceX’s impact on market dynamics and its broader implications for venture-backed companies
• Structural and financial barriers that space and defense startups face, and how investors can help address them

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:02 - Chris's Thanksgiving must-haves

02:15 - Point72 Ventures overview

05:35 - History with space

06:42 - Why did Point72 Ventures first get into space?

09:00 - Chris's thesis about the space industry

10:49 - Proliferated LEO

12:11 - Predictive work and investments

13:02 - At what stage in a company is Point72 Ventures looking to invest?

13:53 - How does space fit into the investment strategy?

15:51 - What happens when a portfolio company isn't hitting their milestones?

17:12 - The process

18:39 - How Point72 Ventures separates itself and what it provides beyond capital

20:31 - Public and private sides of the firm

21:13 - Market dynamics

24:05 - Is there enough government funding for startups, and are they winning enough contracts?

27:29 - Does SpaceX's valuation make sense?

29:47 - Starship vs. Starlink business prediction

32:42 - Is SpaceX a monopoly?

33:26 - Is SpaceX a concern when it comes to investing in the industry?

35:04 - Biggest issues facing startups today and how can investors help

39:04 - Over and under-hyped areas of the market

40:36 - Space ventures in the next decade

42:25 - Gaps in the market

43:37 - Advice to founders looking to start a space company

45:00 - Mars

47:00 - What does Chris do for fun?

• Show notes •

Point72 Ventures’ website — https://p72.vc/

Point 72 Ventures’ socials — https://x.com/p72vc

Chris’ socials — https://x.com/MrChrisMorales

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays
 

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re excited to welcome the one and only Peter Beck, founder and CEO of Rocket Lab. Rocket Lab continues to solidify its position as a leading end-to-end space company, offering launch services, spacecraft platforms, and in-house satellite manufacturing.

In light of Rocket Lab’s Q3 earnings report, which saw a 55% year-over-year revenue increase and a growing backlog of over $1B, this episode dives deep into the company’s strategic and operational decisions driving its success.

In addition, we discuss:

• Rocket Lab’s journey from its early days to becoming the world’s third most frequent launch provider
• The development of Neutron and its significance in addressing medium-class launch demand
• Peter’s philosophy on efficient engineering and capital allocation
• The rise of Rocket Lab’s spacecraft business and its role in the company’s end-to-end space strategy
• Insights into launch market dynamics, from smallsat needs to Starship’s impact on the industry

And much more...
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

00:34 - Where is Peter Beck?

01:20 - Space and the coming administration

02:05 - Rocket Lab in the market and where they're going

03:42 - Neutron's first launch

04:24 - What's next after Neutron?

05:41 - What will be the most dominant aspect of Rocket Lab in the future?

07:10 - Hypersonics

08:51 - Electron demand vs. supply

10:02 - Electron after Neutron

13:05 - Neutron's development timeline

16:07 - How does Neutron compare to Falcon 9?

17:20 - Neutron launch cadence

18:12 - What leads to capital efficiency?

21:03 - How Rocket Lab created successful projects

23:04 - Aesthetics vs Engineering

24:26 - SDA contract and de-risking

25:23 - Why build both spacecraft and launch vehicles?

27:33 - Why own and operate your own constellation?

29:56 - DoD's proliferated LEO satellite services program

30:40 - Frank Klein joining Rocket Lab

31:50 - Operations and scaling philosophy

33:25 - Outlook of the supply and demand for launch market

35:13 - Is there still room for new launch startups?

36:46 - Future of launch outside the US

38:30 - Timeline on human spaceflight at Rocket Lab

40:01 - Most strategic or technical risk that Rocket Lab currently faces

41:14 - Rocket Lab and the Moon

43:24 - Things to embrace in order to build a successful company

44:30 - What keeps Peter up at night?

45:16 - When will the space industry be welcomed by the public markets?

49:20 - Things Peter is keeping an eye on

51:03 - Date for humans on Moon and Mars
 

• Show notes •

Rocket Lab's website — https://www.rocketlabusa.com/

Rocket Lab’s socials — https://x.com/RocketLab

Peter's socials — https://x.com/Peter_J_Beck

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week’s Pathfinder pod features Brian D’Erario, the man who keeps the lights on at Payload as the Director of Client Partnerships. Brian’s role is to bring in all the revenue that makes everything at Payload possible (no pressure, Brian!).  With experience working with over 97 partners, Brian has been instrumental in shaping Payload's approach to brand awareness and lead generation.

Brian shares his journey from selling B2B hardware and software to government contractors, to his time at Morning Brew, and finally joining Payload to drive partnerships in the space sector. We explore Brian's background, including his work with various industries and his insights into the unique challenges of marketing within the space industry. We also discuss:

• The marketing strategies that space companies often overlook
• The importance of brand awareness even during the R&D phase
• How startups can compete with the primes
• The role of content in engaging B2B audiences
• Effective conference strategies for maximizing impact

And much more…
 

• Chapters •

00:00 - Intro

01:04 - What does Brian do at Payload?

01:51 - Brian's background

04:33 - Morning Brew

08:09 - Initial assessment of space marketing strategies

10:39 - Do space companies market themselves well?

12:27 - Marketing your product before you start selling

19:46 - Brand awareness vs lead generation

27:40 - When does it make sense for a startup to spend money on marketing?

31:44 - How can a startup develop a marketing plan for a product that competes against a prime competitor?

34:46 - Creating engaging B2B content

41:31 - Agency vs in-house

43:39 - Conference strategies

47:44 - The Marketing Playbook

52:53 - Brian’s publication

55:11 - Partnerships consultant

57:15 - From hockey to pickleball

• Show notes •

Brian’s Marketing Newsletter — https://payloadspace.com/marketing-deep-tech-newsletter/

Brian’s socials — https://twitter.com/derariob

Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam

Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace

Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

• About us •

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.

Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:

1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern

2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)

3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays

4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays

You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Today's episode of Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in cybersecurity. Check out SpiderOak’s space cyber whitepaper at spacecyber.com

00:00 — Intro
01:46 — The pre-Quilty Analytics days ... Caleb's winding journey from political science and astronomy to space reporting
08:27 — What do space analysts do for a living?
12:01 — SpaceX and T-Mobile teaming up and satellite-to-smartphone connectivity
21:23 — Tracking newly SPAC'd or IPO'd space companies, vs. established mid/big-cap A&D stocks with large and $$$ space divisions
28:22 — A shout-out to AST SpaceMobile's online fans and r/ASTSpaceMobile ... "Hi, Reddit and AST SpaceMobile subreddit, we're reading you."
30:00 — Caleb's 🐐 description for what supports the satellite industry ... the-three legged stool
36:59 — And don't forget the invisible stool ... cybersecurity, space situational awareness (SSA), and spectrum authorization
47:22 — What was it like moderating the Amazon Project Kuiper announcement, aka the largest commercial launch procurement in history? Caleb interviewed CEOs of Blue Origin, Arianespace, and United Launch Alliance (ULA)
48:33 — Where is the market tapped out? And where is there room to grow? 
52:18 — The long-lasting effects of the Russia-Ukraine conflict on the space industry. With the two space powerhouses at odds, "the split is literally tearing rockets in half and tearing satellites in half."

Caleb's Twitter — https://twitter.com/CHenry_QA
Caleb's LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/calebahenry/
Ryan's Twitter — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy
Quilty — https://www.quiltyanalytics.com/
Research/reports ($) — https://www.quiltyanalytics.com/research/industry-research/
Diagrams — https://payloadspace.com/pathfinder-0016-featuring-caleb-henry/ 
Parallax —parallax.beehiiv.com

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we publish Payload, our flagship newsletter, from Monday to Friday; Pathfinder, and Parallax. 

Parallax is our brand-spanking new weekly science newsletter for the space industry. Subscribe now so you can say you were early by signing up at parallax.beehiiv.com

You can subscribe to our daily newsletter and find out more about Payload at payloadspace.com

Today's episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check them out at https://spideroak-ms.com/ and download the new NSR/SpiderOak sponsored whitepaper, titled “Space Cybersecurity – Current State and Future Needs,” at www.spacecyber.com

For starters, we get a status report on what Aquarian’s been up to over the last six months. But there’s plenty more on tap, such as: 

• How Kelly landed at Aquarian, with a serial entrepreneur background and non-space resume
• NASA’s Deep Space Network (DSN) and new opportunities with today’s technology
• Going to market with CLPS (Commercial Lunar Payload Services) rovers and landers
• What a lunar Wi-Fi network will look like and its first applications
• The capital required for the initial network buildout
• Is Kelly worried about aliens free-loading on Aquarian’s Wi-Fi?

…and more! Come for the above topics, stay for ever-so-brief discussions of yoga and astrology (Ryan’s totally unbiased opinion: Aquarians rule).

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

0:00 - Introduction
2:32 - Kelly’s love for space began when she grew up on a farm and was able to look up at the stars
6:49 - “Farm girl turned yoga entrepreneur turned space CEO.” The transformation that brought Kelly to the space industry
11:08 - Kelly’s take on joining Aquarian
13:24 - What problems is Aquarian setting out to solve? How are they approaching these issues?
18:14 - Aquarian’s launch strategy for their communications networks and the growing lunar economy
24:36 - What will Aquarian’s constellation look like? Kelly discusses the need to bring reliable service to Aquarian’s customers
29:11 - Eating the humble pie: how Kelly went about fundraising and pitching in the first round
34:46 - Space camps and mentorship
37:42 - Are there common backgrounds in the technical team at Aquarian?
41:33 - The logistics of being a space startup distributed across the US
45:14 - Kelly’s hottest take, or most contrarian view, of space
46:40 - Who are Kelly’s role models in the space industry? Will Kelly go to space one day?
51:33 - The concern for extraterrestrial life and having advanced network systems in space

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Our guest is Barry Matsumori, a space industry veteran who’s held exec roles at SpaceX, Virgin Orbit, and most recently, was CEO of BridgeComm. Barry’s now the COO of Impulse Space, which was started by SpaceX founding team member Tom Mueller.

Impulse is just a year old and it has only ~40 employees, making it all the more surprising when Impulse and Relativity said they’d partner to launch the first commercial Mars mission in the next available window (late 2024). We grill Barry on the specifics of the mission, and though it feels highly ambitious, it’s safe to say that you don’t want to bet against these teams.

Today's episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check them out at https://spideroak-ms.com/ and download the new NSR/SpiderOak sponsored whitepaper, titled “Space Cybersecurity – Current State and Future Needs,” at www.spacecyber.com

0:00 - Introduction
2:43 -Explaining what it was like to work for Qualcomm, a semiconductor company specializing in silicon chips used in mobile phones
5:20 - Barry’s unorthodox approach to higher education, starting with an undergraduate business degree and then pursuing a postgrad degree in engineering
9:05 - Defining new space
11:20 - The bread and butter of Impulse Space… finding ways to build infrastructure that allows space to become an enterprise
13:37 - Impulse Space aims to be a “last-mile” space transportation player. What does that mean and what does it look like?
17:56 - Discussion of Imulse’s development cycles and vertical integration
19:35 - Where does the startup recruit from? What does its headcount look like?
20:35 - Relativity and Space are working together to do what?!
25:10 - What still needs to happen or fall into place to make the Mars window in 2024?
31:16 - Orbital infrastructure is a prerequisite for more space commercialization (materials processing, pharma development, semiconductor manufacturing, etc.)
36:20 - How using LEO as a parking could usher in a more sustainable phase of space exploration (and return trips to Earth)
40:28 - Pulling in fresh talent from other industries versus recruiting from space competitors
44:07 - Pools of talent density around the US… From LA to Boston, and far beyond
47:26 - If all goes to plan, what will Impulse look like in 2024? What other missions will it be working on?
48:41 - Close of show … Star Wars or Star Trek? Are we alone? Will Barry go to space?

Video referenced in episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuL7iYUNg6o&feature=emb_title

Impulse's website: https://www.impulsespace.com/

Barry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-matsumori-35676/

Mars mission details: https://www.impulsespace.com/mars

Q+A with partner Relativity: https://payloadspace.com/qa-with-tim-ellis-on-relativitys-mars-mission/

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Giuseppe is president at Red Cat Holdings ($RCAT) and founder of Skypersonic, which builds drones that can inspect and survey sites in high-risk, confined, or GPS-denied locations. Skypersonic's product enables remote operators to fly drones indoors 100% remotely and over the internet.

Previously, Giuseppe was responsible for the development of projects on behalf of the European Space Agency at Thales Alenia Space, and has been involved in development of space systems used at NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA). He studied Astronautical Engineering at the University “La Sapienza di Roma” and he achieved the Master of Science in Mechanical Engineering (MSME) at Engineering Faculty of Catania.

What's the space angle? Skypersonic just recently completed a 15-day set of testing its drone at Mt. Etna, an Italian volcano with Martian-esque terrain. Pilots in Houston flew Skypersonic's drones to demonstrate the feasibility of the technology in a Mars-like environment. In 2021, NASA awarded Skypersonic a five-year contract to provide drone and rover software, hardware, and services/support for the US space agency's simulated Mars mission.

0:00 - Introduction
4:27 - Giuseppe got into space at a very young age. Also, Ryan asks the question we’ve all been dying to know… Star Trek or Star Wars?
6:34 - The Italian space sector and working at Thales Alenia
11:24 - Starting simple…how’d Giuseppe come up with the name “Skypersonic”?
13:13 - The startup’s backstory and the art of the pivot
14:08 - 99% of all drones use GPS to fly – Skypersonic is building for the 1% share, and high-risk, highly complex situations and GPS-denied environments.
18:15 - “the pilot is important”
18:46 - A walkthrough of how drones connect to remote operation centers across the world. “Hopefully I can explain in a simple way, even if it’s super complex.”
26:32 - Spillovers from technology developed for space, now being used every day down here on Earth
30:57 - Skypersonic’s testing of its drones and remote operations at Mount Etna (an Italian volcano with a Martian-esque environment)
39:00 - Potential hiccups with using electrical propulsion systems on Mars. Also, spoiler alert, you can’t pilot helicopters on Mars from Earth
41:31 - Getting acquired by Red Cat Holdings, and what it’s like being on the management team of a publicly traded deeptech company
46:56 - Does Giuseppe have any advice for the space SPACs that are trying to tough it out in the public markets right now?
49:51 - Just a normal light question on this Tuesday morning: “Are we alone in the universe?” Giuseppe has worked on space telescopes searching for extraterrestrial planets, so we feel he’s qualified to answer this question.
52:04 - A once-in-a-generation renaissance and technological revival for space
53:40 - Giuseppe’s favorite off-the-radar Italian city

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

By the end of 2023, Satellogic hopes to have 60+ satellites in orbit (and 200+ by 2025). The company made $4.2 million in 2021, the year it began selling and delivering imagery to customers.

Today’s Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems (https://spideroak-ms.com/), an industry leader in cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cyber whitepaper at spacecyber.com

0:00 - Intro
2:05 - Satellogic’s presence all over the world, from Buenos Aires to the Netherlands
4:35 - What does operating a multinational satellite company look like during a global pandemic? 
6:34 - Emiliano has had the entrepreneurial bug from a young age, since he was programming computers as a 9 year old 
10:42 - The inception story of Satellogic, building a more efficient way to observe Earth and remap the planet, all the way up until 2020
14:49 - What characteristics set Satellogic apart from other smallsat constellations? 
20:22 - Sub meter resolution optical cameras and multispectral cameras being used in object identification and classification in Earth observation (EO)
24:53 - What role do sales and marketing play in reaching new customers in commercial markets?
31:01 - Emiliano’s list of technology and financial trends that made his business possible, from the canonical drop in launch costs to the standardization of launch interfaces and more
37:03 - What are your biggest bottlenecks or constraints: resolution limits or government regulations? 
43:45 - What is a DSC, or dedicated satellite constellation? How does it tie in with space-as-a-service? And why might national governments want to tap DSCs? 
46:33 - Satellogic’s operations over Ukraine and their efforts to aid the country and other NATO members 
50:11 - Being a non-US company listed in the United States, and the positives and negatives of the decision to go public via SPAC (special purpose acquisition company) merger
55:12 - Emiliano’s hottest take, or most contrarian view, on the space industry…His answer The future of the space economy will match the economy on Planet Earth
56:27 - Will Emiliano’s daughter go on to work in the space industry? 
57:26 - Advice for students, especially from the Global South, who are looking to break into the space industry

Satellogic's website: https://satellogic.com/ 
Emiliano's Twitter: https://twitter.com/earlkman?lang=en
Emiliano's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekargieman/?originalSubdomain=ar 
Payload's first Q+A with Emiliano: https://payloadspace.com/satellogic-interview/
Satellogic and Astraea Ukraine imagery collaboration: https://payloadspace.com/satellogic-and-astraea-create-platform-for-ukraine-imagery/
Satellogic launches new satellites on SpaceX's Transporter-4 mission: https://payloadspace.com/spacex-launches-transporter-4/
SpaceX's Transporter-5 mission: https://payloadspace.com/spacex-launches-transporter-5/

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

On today's episode of the Pathfinder podcast, we’re tackling the topic of space junk. We’re very fortunate to have Dr. Moriba Jah, one of the world’s foremost authorities on this topic, joining us this week.

Moriba is an astrodynamicist, space environmentalist, and associate professor of aerospace engineering and engineering mechanics at UT Austin (obligatory 'hook em' from Ryan). Moriba is also the chief scientist and cofounder of Privateer, with Alex Fielding and Steve “Woz” Wozniak. Privateer, which stayed highly secretive until relatively recently, bills itself as “a data and intelligence platform empowering the future of space sustainability.”

Today’s Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems (www.spideroak-ms.com), an industry leader in cybersecurity.

In the simplest of terms, Moriba specializes in studying and predicting the motion of objects in space. It’s a hot topic at the moment, given recent uncontrolled spacecraft reentries, the growing pile of junk in LEO, and the rising importance of space domain awareness (SDA) and space traffic management (STM).

Moriba walks us through his framework for thinking about the orbital commons. Among other things, we discuss…

• The perception of risk and uncertainty
• The criticality of accurate measurements
• How, when, and where national governments are responsible and liable for debris build-up and the downstream consequences
• The geopolitical calculus of maintaining the orbital commons, and the challenges of multilateral coordination
• Moriba’s efforts to “recruit empathy” for space environmentalism and reach a wide swath of the general public
• A tragedy of the orbital commons…but also, reasons to be optimistic

In the back half of the episode, we focus on Privateer and work through the following questions:

• Where does the startup get its data and how could the wisdom of crowds come into play?
• What does the tech stack look like?
• How is Privateer thinking about its own orbital assets and hosted payloads? Where will it buy vs. build?
• What types of organizations will be the power users of Privateer’s platform and the Wayfinder product, if the startup succeeds in its goal?

Come for Moriba’s insightful takes on the serious matters at hand; stay for the dog cameo, keto detour, and wearable technology talk.

0:00 - Intro

3:09 - Moriba’s résumé … from hook ‘em to science committees to disarmament and advising the Scottish government  

5:19 - Explain it like I’m five: what’s astrodynamics? … and @ 7:11, same question but for space environmentalism. Moriba coined the term so he’s a good person to ask.  

8:06 - Space may be an abundant and limitless expanse, but from a resource consumption POV, especially in LEO, it is quite finite

9:44 - How do you feel about the influx of attention to orbital debris and LEO congestion in recent years?

11:42 - Are there parallels, theoretically speaking, between the Kessler Syndrome and planetary feedback loops that could be induced by runaway climate change? 

14:36 - Risk assessment, forecasting, pattern-matching, structured vs. unstructured data, building models, and “epistemic uncertainty” … and @ 18:00, “You can’t know something better than its inherent randomness” 

19:49 - Overseeing our orbital commons is the quintessential international relations problem. With regards to taking ownership and cleaning up the mess, does the buck stop with national governments? 

24:59 - Is there a new co-host of Pathfinder??? 🐶🐶🐶

26:08 - What does reaching our carrying capacity of LEO look like? How many objects can be up there at once? Is it possible to even answer these questions? 

28:28 - The dangers of mucking up key orbits 

30:52 - Privateer intro. Privateer was cofounded by the three amigos: Moriba, entrepreneur and Privateer CEO Alex Fielding, and Apple cofounder Steve “Woz” Wozniak 

33:45 - You have a near-real-time, open-access feed of objects around Earth on your website. Where are you pulling this data from? As it relates to your Wayfinder product, what’s unique about Privateer’s tech stack? In what ways is this an aggregation play? Are you making this data interoperable? 

39:24 - Operationalizing and productizing Moriba’s life work through Privateer’s platform 

40:47 - Privateer will operate its own on-orbit assets

46:42 - You’d have all the reasons in the world to be a jaded realist. Why aren’t you one? How do you stay optimistic? 

50:20 - If you weren’t working in astrodynamics and aerospace, what would you be doing? And finally…favorite taco spot(s) in Austin?

Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Today’s guest is Jordan Noone, the cofounder and founding CTO of Relativity Space. Noone now holds the same titles at Embedded Ventures, a self-described deeptech VC “skunkworks” that Noone runs with cofounder Jenna Bryant. Embedded Ventures has partnered with the US Space Force on R&D, and backed early-stage startups like Slingshot Aerospace and Inversion. Jordan is also the cofounder and CEO of KittyCAD, which aims to reinvent how engineers and companies create hardware products. 

On the Relativity front, Jordan helped scale up the company’s additive manufacturing capabilities and hone the rest of the startup’s tech stack. Today, Relativity’s Terran 1 is vertical on the pad in Florida for final tests, before the company conducts an orbital launch attempt this summer. Terran 1 is a 110-foot-tall expendable rocket, and according to Relativity, the largest 3D printed object to exist and to attempt orbital flight. Relativity’s first Terran 1 is 85% 3D printed by mass.

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, (http://www.spideroak-ms.com) an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space whitepaper at spacecyber.com

And now without further ado, here’s a glimpse into the range of discussion topics in today’s episode:

• Background in brief
• Jordan’s rebellious streaks as a student and his take on medieval history
• Heading up USC’s Rocket Propulsion Lab, a finishing school for rocket junkies
• Interning, then working full-time, at SpaceX
• Meeting cofounder Tim Ellis (who was on Pathfinder #0009)
• Becoming the youngest person to get an FAA license to launch a rocket to space
• Getting accepted into and graduating from Y Combinator (YC W16, to be exact)
• The advantages of 3D printing combustion chambers, engines, and other rocket parts
• All the other aspects of Relativity’s tech stack that differentiate it from other rocket makers
• Why Jordan left Relativity after roughly five years
• Bringing the design and product ethos of Silicon Valley to the world of defense
• Graduating from startup founder to the other side of the boardroom table: VC investor
• Market conditions and what Jordan’s seeing with pricing rounds, startup valuations, etc.
• The downstream effects of space SPACs on future industry financing
• Conflicted cap tables and the geopolitical aspects of venture capital
• Leading KittyCAD, which brings software automation to the hardware world
• Building the Stripe of the hardware world

…and much more! This was a long one, and there’s plenty of other great nuggets and stories buried in the full episode. We’ll leave it to you to discover them yourselves.

0:00 - Intro and Jordan’s background in brief

02:05 - Rundown of Jordan’s résumé left of starting Relativity, from rebellious streaks as a student to his take on medieval history

06:15 - How did the USC administration react to a group of students trying to do something that few other countries, let alone college students, had ever done? 

09:59 - Meeting Tim Ellis, Relativity’s cofounder and current CEO (and a Pathfinder alum…Tim joined us on episode #0009)

11:15 - Interning, then working full-time, at SpaceX … and how SpaceX gives its early-stage employees an impressive amount of substantive projects. 

13:50 - Jordan was the first student to receive what?!  

14:04 - One does not simply launch a rocket into space. We give a glimpse into the hoops that you need to jump through, from calling NORAD to filling out reams of legal paperwork, to launch a rocket into space

19:10 - Starting a multi-billion dollar company at 22, cold-emailing Mark Cuban, and going through Y Combinator (Relativity was in the YC W16 batch)

23:41 - Taking a deeper look into the positives and negatives of 3D printing. What are the technical advantages of 3D printing combustion chambers, engines, and other rocket parts? 

28:22 - Transitioning from Relativity back to the earliest stages of company formation … “I was very hungry to go back to an earlier stage”

31:50 - The genesis story of Embedded Ventures, how Jordan linked up with Embedded cofounder Jenna Bryant, and her backstory

34:52 - A look at the all-mighty CFIUS (the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States)

36:04 - Jordan frequently uses the term “clean capital.” What does he mean by that? 

44:20 - Graduating from startup founder to the other side of the boardroom table: VC investor and first-time fund manager

52:31 - Leading KittyCAD, which aims to brings software automation and manufacturing digitalization to the hardware world 

55:30 - Are the founders of KittyCAD cat people?

59:50 - “If you can explain it to your grandmother, a venture capitalist will understand it”

1:04:04 - Hot takes (or most contrarian views) on the space industry … spoiler alert: “we’re in the worst spot for encouraging national security entrance” 

1:10:05 - Jordan’s advice for students who want to break into the commercial space industry

Today’s episode is Pathfinder #0010, which means we’ve made it into the double digits. So far, so good. We’ll see you soon at Pathfinder #0100.

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See you back here next week!