The 130th Boston Marathon is this Monday. To mark the occasion, Michael sits down with Brady Holmer — a science writer, runner, and 2:24 Boston finisher — to go deep on what the race actually feels like, why super shoes might be saving you 5-8 minutes, how to fuel a marathon without your gut exploding, and whether anyone can qualify for Boston.

Then Dr. Mike Roussell, a PhD nutritionist from Penn State who works with NBA players and busy execs, breaks down the ultraprocessed food debate that's tearing through the nutrition world. Are ultraprocessed foods actually evil? Or are they sometimes the healthiest option? He walks through a mind-blowing ultraprocessed food study, why fiber is the most underrated nutrient, and a practical framework for using UPF without letting it wreck your diet. Plus his surprisingly nuanced take on GLP-1 drugs.

After that, Michael heads to the Two Percent Kitchen with the most ridiculous endurance recipe you've ever seen.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. Our editor is Ryan Mulhern. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Two Percent, Michael sits down with backcountry bow hunter and filmmaker Donnie Vincent to unpack what months in remote wilderness teach you about stress, calm, and competence. Donnie was featured heavily in Michael’s bestselling book, The Comfort Crisis, and now he joins Michael for the first time on mic since the book’s release.

They talk about the ethics and emotional reality of hunting, why sourcing your own food changes your relationship with life, and how modern convenience hijacks the ancient “search” that once made humans thrive. Donnie shares stories from Alaska—about storms, solitude, and the kind of discomfort that forces growth.

The two discuss the importance of building resilience when nothing's certain, staying present in wild places, and how you can get the same benefits of a hunt without ever picking up a bow – all it takes is choosing experiences that are hard and honest.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Walking shaped humans into who we are—and it’s one of the simplest ways to improve health, mood, and longevity right now. In this episode of Two Percent, Michael sits down with evolutionary geneticist Dr. Melissa Ilardo and writer Foster Kamer to explore what endurance science says about how far humans can actually go, why the brain often quits before the body, and how small daily choices compound into massive long-term outcomes.

We cover the real research behind step counts (including why the 10,000 number is a myth), the minimum effective dose that meaningfully improves health, and how to make walking effortless by stacking it into things you already do. Plus: persistence hunting, sleep differences that change performance, and what ultra-endurance reveals about mindset.

Email us at media@twopct.com.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur, Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Kaleidoscope’s Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. Our editor is Nick Pomeroy. Our theme music is by Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From New York Times bestselling author and journalist Michael Easter comes a twice-weekly deep dive into the science of living better by doing things the hard way. Building on the insights of his #1 Substack and acclaimed books, Easter balances rigorous evidence with a healthy dose of skepticism to cut through the noise of the modern wellness industry. Whether he’s interviewing elite explorers and Harvard biologists or deconstructing the truth about longevity and metabolic health, this isn't a show for "biohacking" perfectionists—it’s a grounded, often humorous guide for real people looking to build resilience and agency in an increasingly comfortable world. From ancient wisdom to cutting-edge research, listen to Two Percent to discover why the antidote to modern malaise is often found in the challenges we’ve been taught to avoid.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Melissa Urban — founder of Whole 30 and author of The Whole30 (updated 2024) and The Book of Boundaries — sits down with Michael Easter for one of the most honest conversations on this feed yet. Two sober people (Michael 10+ years, Melissa 24+ years) unpack the parallels between drug addiction and food behavior, why the first time Melissa went to rehab didn't stick, and the single question that rewired every habit in her life: "What would a healthy person with healthy habits do?"

They dig into the science of elimination diets, the 17 years of data behind Whole 30, why Melissa publicly reversed her position on seed oils in 2024, how food becomes the fastest socially acceptable distraction from our feelings, and why you can white-knuckle any elimination program and end up exactly where you started. Plus: integrity over followers, mountains as church, and why "does this feel gross?" is the best business rubric Melissa's ever used.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. Our editor is Ryan Mulhern. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Everyone has a vice. Drinking, smoking, social media, diet soda. And the modern wellness internet will tell you that if you want to live a long, healthy life, you need to cut every single one of them out. But is that actually true?

In this episode of Two Percent, we take a nuanced look at vices and whether some of them might actually enhance your life when you use them the right way. We don't have to live like monks to live a good life.

First up is Dean Stattmann, a GQ reporter who spent three months sober and wrote a now-viral piece titled "Why My 2026 Resolution Is to Start Drinking Again." His Whoop scores got better, but his friendships, his marriage, and his mood got worse. Dean explains what alcohol actually does for human connection, what anthropologists call "costly signaling," and why moderate drinking might not be the villain the internet has made it out to be.

Then Taylor Lorenz, author of Extremely Online and host of the Power User podcast, joins to argue something that sounds heretical in 2026: social media is not addictive. We break down the real science on dopamine (spoiler: it's probably cortisol), the recent California Meta verdict, Section 230, KOSA, looksmaxing, Clavicular's overdose, and what's actually driving the teen mental health conversation.

Finally, Michael opens up about his own personal vice, a five-a-day habit, and explains why the science on aspartame, cancer, and the gut microbiome isn't nearly as scary as the internet would have you believe.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. Our editor is Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

Substack Post from Dr. Vinay Prasad: https://www.drvinayprasad.com/p/alcohol-good-or-bad-why-reductionist

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if everything you believe about freedom is wrong?

Author David Epstein joins Michael Easter to break down why constraints — not freedom — drive better work, better wellness, and better creativity. Epstein is the bestselling author of Range and The Sports Gene, and his new book Inside the Box: How Constraints Make Us Better argues we have it backwards on freedom.

They discuss why General Magic collapsed under unlimited possibility while Pixar dominated, why your brain is literally built to prevent you from thinking, and the simple sleep hack that made David a morning person for two years without an alarm clock.

This is the playbook for thinking slow, acting fast, and finally figuring out what to stop doing.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Ryan Mulhern. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A 3-year old beat a PhD engineer at an engineering problem while playing legos—and that single moment kicked off a decade of research that exposed one of the strongest, most underrated biases in the human brain: we almost never subtract.

This week, Michael sits down with Dr. Leidy Klotz — University of Virginia engineering professor, former pro soccer player, and author of Subtract, which explored why your brain defaults to adding when removing is the better answer.

His new book In a Good Place, unpacks why open offices steal your focus, the science of the “home field advantage” and why the spaces you live in might be quietly running your life (and even affecting  your lifespan).

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

More than 100,000 Americans die of drug overdose every year. The solution—or at least part of it—might be dorky as hell.

Sam Quinones spent 12 years reporting on America’s drug crisis and how — heroin, fentanyl, meth have reshaped the country. In this episode, l he unpacks how Mexican cartels replaced poppy fields with chemicals, lowered the price of meth by 90%, and unintentionally created a schizophrenia crisis. Since then, Sam has been on a mission to find the antidote to modern day addiction. And he found it in an unlikely source: the tuba. yes, the musical instrument. Sam explains why marching band may very well be the best anti-drug program in America and how we can help our children avoid a life of addiction and suffering.

Even if you have no interest in playing the tuba, the lessons from marching band can help anyone build a better life. This episode is about the value of hard work without fanfare, the power of community, and how to find hope in a broken world.

Sam is the author of Dreamland, The Least of Us, and his new book The Perfect Tuba: Forging Fulfillment from the Bass Horn, Band, and Hard Work.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Joey Fischground. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is work supposed to feel this miserable? In this episode, Michael Easter sits down with two people who answer the question from opposite ends of the spectrum: one who found deep fulfillment inside the system, and one who walked away from it entirely.

First, Dr. Mim Ari, an internist and associate professor at the University of Chicago, breaks down what it actually means to be a "deeply fulfilled workist." She explains why we anchor on the negatives, the 10:1 positive ratio that should reframe your day, how AI scribes are quietly changing medicine, and why intrinsic motivation beats external validation every time.

Then, Robin Greenfield, who once aimed to be a millionaire by 30, talks about why he gave it all up. He shares the moment he realized the American Dream was "the world's nightmare," his 100-change checklist for breaking free of consumerism, what it was like to walk NYC in a 135-pound trash suit, and the three months he spent owning literally nothing in Griffith Park.

Michael closes with the very first 2% AMA, including the one phone hack that has saved his work-life balance, the truth about exercise recovery, an update to The Comfort Crisis on autophagy, and the inaugural "Department of Dipshit Questions."

Robin’s 100-step guide to living happier: https://www.robingreenfield.org/100

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. Our editor is Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What happens when you eat 8 cans of sardines everyday for 30 days? For one doctor, his omega-3 levels hit numbers usually only seen in dolphins, his body fat dropped below 7%, and a smell he couldn't shake put a strain on his relationship.

Host Michael Easter sits down with Dr. Nick Norwitz (Oxford PhD, Harvard MD) to break down the science of the sardine diet. Then, George Kamel (Ramsey Network, author of Breaking Free from Broke) explains how he went from $40K in debt eating only Lean Cuisines to a paid-off mortgage in his early 30s, as well as the best grocery store to shop at in 2026 for healthy food on a budget. Spoiler Alert: it’s Costco, and it’s 21% cheaper than Walmart and 40% cheaper than Whole Foods.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sobriety isn't just "not drinking"—it's learning how to live without needing relief on demand. In this episode, Michael Easter sits down with therapist Ryan Soave (18+ years sober) for a sweeping conversation on why addiction often acts like a solution to deeper pain, how fear and shame quietly run the show, and what it takes to break the compulsion loop for good.

They dig into habit change that actually sticks, how to rebuild identity and community, and practical ways to regulate your nervous system so you don't have to numb yourself. 

Ryan Soave is a licensed mental health counselor, transformational coach, and person in long-term recovery. He has spent nearly twenty years and over ten thousand clinical hours working with people navigating trauma, addiction, and the survival patterns that quietly run their lives. His approach brings together modern neuroscience, body-based therapies, and ancient wisdom traditions, all built around one idea: most of us confuse discomfort with threat and spend our lives reacting to things that aren't actually dangerous. Learning to feel bad is the first real step toward living well. Ryan has sat on both sides of the therapeutic relationship, which shapes everything about how he works.

To go deeper with Ryan or learn more about his work:

Website: ryansoave.com 

Free course: Sign up for "How to Feel Bad (and Love Your Life)" at ryansoave.com 

Book a one-on-one consultation: ryansoave.com 

Instagram: @Ryan.Soave 

YouTube: @rjsoave

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Ryan Mulhern. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dogs don’t just make us happy—they change how we live. Michael Easter talks with former Navy SEAL and writer Sam Alaimo about why dogs pull us back into the present, create purpose, and help us rebuild after our toughest moments.

Then researcher Dr. Nancy Gee (director of a human–animal interaction center) breaks down what the science actually says about how and why pet ownership contributes to our health and wellbeing.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Joey Fischground. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What does it take to get genuinely strong, healthy, and creatively alive in your late 50s — while having one of the most demanding jobs in Hollywood?

Brian Koppelman is the writer behind Rounders, Ocean’s 13, and the seven-season hit show Billions. He also helped discover and promote the singer songwriter Tracy Chapman. At 57, he walked off a tennis court mid-match, certain he was about to faint, and decided to completely rebuild his body. Three years later he’s deadlifting 300 pounds, racing up seven flights of stairs with a weighted pack, and producing some of the sharpest creative work of his career.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Ryan Mulhern. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Why do people lose their minds over seed oils, raw milk, carnivore diets, and long Covid? Alan Levinovitz isn't a doctor or a health journalist — he's a religion scholar. And from that vantage point he noticed something you can't un-see: the way most of us think about health functions exactly like a religion, complete with ideas of purity, contamination, salvation, and tribes that turn on you the moment you question the doctrine.

Michael Easter sits down with Alan to unpack his explosive WIRED piece on long Covid and the vicious backlash it triggered. They get into why so many of our fiercest health arguments aren't really about data at all — they're about identity. Alan shares more points to illustrate his thesis, like the “guru” who mailed strangers his own feces to prove a health theory, and how the term "natural" in wellness circles became a stand-in for "holy."

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if you juiced a roster of athletes to the gills with performance-enhancing drugs and let them compete for a million-dollar prize? That's the Enhanced Games — the billionaire-backed "Steroid Olympics" held in Las Vegas — and the results were not what investors expected.

Michael Easter sits down with journalists Chris Gayomali and Sam Eagan, hosts of the Superhuman podcast, who were embedded with the founders, athletes, and scientists during the games. Despite being hyped as the future of human performance, almost no world records actually fell. In many cases, non-enhanced athletes beat the juiced ones. Within about a day, it became clear the event was really a marketing engine for selling testosterone and peptides to the public, and a glimpse of how we're increasingly being sold a frictionless, "enhanced" version of ourselves, all with the swipe of a credit card.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Joey Fischground. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

UFC fighters routinely lose 10 to 20 pounds in the 5 days before a weigh-in — then put it all back on in the 24 hours before stepping into the Octagon. It is one of the most extreme metabolic feats in sports, and almost no one talks about what it actually teaches us about everyday fat loss.

In this episode, Michael Easter sits down with Tyler Minton, the nutritionist behind some of the UFC's top fighters and current advisor to Naval Special Warfare. Tyler nearly died from his own weight cut years ago preparing for a fight, which sent him on a long quest for knowledge to rebuild how elite combat athletes prepare. He breaks down the exact protocol fighters follow and why the old "eat less, run more" model destroyed careers. Finally, they discuss the science behind UFC weight cutting and what it reveals about crash diets, GLP-1s, and why most diets cause rebound weight gain.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Miesha Tate became UFC women's bantamweight champion by choking out Holly Holm in the fifth round at the MGM Grand. Two weeks after the highest moment of her life, she realized the title hadn't fixed anything. The next loss almost ended her. She packed her dog into a Kia, drove up the coast, and rebuilt herself layer by layer. She came back to fighting on her own terms, synced to her hormonal cycle for the first time in 15 years, and called the comeback the best fight of her life.

In this episode, Michael Easter sits down with Miesha and they go deep on what she learned walking onto an all-boys high school wrestling team. They unpack her first MMA fight where she fell in love with fighting, despite a broken nose. Then they get into why winning a world title left her contemplating suicide. They explore what Gabor Maté's books changed for her. And they name the single biggest mistake she made for 15 years of her career: training from a male model of fighting instead of from a women’s biological reality, hormonal cycle and all.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Will Mayo. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When it gets hot, most of us hide indoors with the AC cranked, the workouts moved inside, and the thermostat parked at 72°F all summer long. But humans evolved in the heat, and the new science says we can still use it to get stronger, healthier, and (maybe most surprisingly) happier. In this episode, Michael Easter sits down with two of the best people in the world on the subject of heat.

Ashley Paulson, the Badwater 135 course record holder (a 135 mile race through Death Valley), finished in 21 hours and 44 minutes, beating the old record by 2.5 hours. She shares what 120°F at 11 p.m. actually feels like and the mindset that lets her thrive in it.

Then Bill Gifford, author of Hot Wired: How the Hidden Power of Heat Makes Us Stronger, talks about how your body adapts in 4 to 5 sessions of sauna treatment. Michael closes with a hydration playbook and the 1960s WHO research that nailed the perfect summer drink.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Ryan Mulhern. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Julie Gurner has a two-year waiting list. The Wall Street Journal calls her the real-life Wendy Rhodes (the psychologist from the show Billions). Her clients are CEOs, founders, billionaires, and elite operators. But she started her career inside a supermax prison. In this episode, Michael Easter sits down with Dr. Julie Gurner to unpack what actually separates the top 0.01% from everyone else: audacity, what-if-it-goes-right thinking, and using anger as fuel. She also explains why "be humble" might be the worst career advice you have ever received. 

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Ryan Mulhern. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A year ago, Michael Easter walked 850 miles across southern Utah in 45 days — about a marathon every day. Dr. Andy Galpin turned him into a lab rat, studying his body before, during, and after his 45 days in the desert. What he found surprised both of them.

In this episode, Michael sits down with Dr. Andy Galpin — the world’s top performance scientist and co-founder of Absolute Rest. He is the guy MVPs, Cy Young winners, and Hall of Famers call when something isn't working. They go deep on what 850 miles in 45 days actually does to a human body, what wearables get right and where they fail, and the 5-pillar exercise protocol that makes a body ready for anything.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Joey Fischground. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Adventure has been engineered out of modern life, and we're paying for it in ways we don't even realize. In this episode of Two Percent, Michael Easter sits down with two guests who have decentered optimization.

First up: Jay Carson, a former Clinton communications director and Hollywood writer (House of Cards, The Morning Show). Jay signed up for a 14-day Boulder Outdoor Survival School course in the Utah desert after a Covid power outage made him realize he had no idea how to take care of himself. He's now an instructor at the school. He shares what happened when his house burned down in the January 2025 LA fires, and why the BOSS course is the reason he survived the hardest year of his life.

Then: Sinhue Xavier an ex-North Face ski mountaineer mentored by Conrad Anker and Alex Lowe who recently sold his house to travel the American West out of a truck. He explains why the best journeys aren't on Instagram, why "the most efficient route" is almost always the wrong one, and how to find real adventure in your own backyard.

Two Percent is hosted by Michael Easter. Today’s episode was produced by Joey Fischground, Robbie Hiser, Dana Brawer and Julia Nutter. From Kaleidoscope, our executive producers are Mangesh Hattikudur and Kate Osborn and Julia Nutter. From iHeart, our executive producers are Katrina Norvell and Nikki Ettore. Our Head of Video is Maria Paz Mendez Hodes. This episode was edited by Ryan Mulhern. Our theme music is by the Heater Manager.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.