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74. Returning to places of trauma15 Jul 202400:38:51

Reflecting on recent trips back to our former music schools and colleges, we chat about the complex emotions that arise when revisiting places of past trauma. We discuss the challenges of addressing mental health in educational settings, wondering if our message is relevant to current students, and the lasting impact of architecture and locations on our wellbeing. We also explore the nuances of loneliness, and share our personal journeys of making peace with specific London locations.


Link to the book recommended by Becca: https://www.olivialaing.com/lonely-city


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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians! Follow them on Instagram, X and Facebook.

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Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon from £1 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Feeling generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

Find TMDTA on all the socials at @tmdtapodcast

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Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Editor: Rebecca Toal

Music: Katy Ehrlich


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

73. Ruth Philips: non-violence and the art of rest02 Jul 202400:56:06

When cellist Ruth Philips was 29 and studying in America, she left her room as she wanted it to be found after her death. So certain was she that the performance approaching her would be the end of her life.


Now, Ruth is sought after for her whole, integrative approach as a cello teacher, mindfulness practitioner and performance coach. She speaks to us about her journey towards discovering mindfulness, reframing the word 'practice' and encouraging others to consider the violent language we frequently use as musicians and music teachers. We explore how kindness and self-love can be a difficult choice if a rigid practice routine has provided comfort, and consider how we can take steps towards a more whole perspective of practice within the music sector.


Discover Ruth Philips here


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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians! Follow them on Instagram, X and Facebook.

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Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon from £1 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Feeling generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

Find TMDTA on all the socials at @tmdtapodcast

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Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Editor: Hattie Butterworth

Music: Katy Ehrlich



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

64. Gavin Higgins: Tourettes, OCD and surviving opera19 Oct 202301:00:27

Composer Gavin Higgins found that music was the only thing calmed his severe facial tics as a young kid. After an assessment at the Maudsley Hospital, Gavin was diagnosed with Tourettes and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. He was put on Prozac and told to snap a rubber band on his wrist to take away his intrusive thoughts.


A lot has changed in the treatment of mental illnesses, but what's the reality behind living with two severe conditions as an award-winning composer? And why is Gavin so determined to raise awareness? Hattie and Gavin chat in this episode about OCD, Tourettes, generational OCD themes, trauma from writing an opera, the industry as it stands and how things need to change.


Find Gavin's website here


And his Instagram

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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Feeling generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

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Follow the Royal Society of Musicians:

Instagram: @rsmgb

Twitter: @RSMusicians

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/royalsocietyofmusicians

Editor: Hattie Butterworth

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

*Patreon Preview* Spooky Scary Feedback02 Oct 202300:06:15

It's our first sneaky peaky Patreon preview! Welcome through this little creaky door in the paywall to hear 5 minutes of exclusive content that we recorded last Halloween!


In this episode, Hattie, Katy and Becca scare the living daylights outta themselves by reading feedback ranging from grade 8 to graduate scheme rejections. We also have a little rant about assessing music as a subjective art form, and Hattie shares a story with us that we had to bleep out because it was too gross. 


If you fancy accessing the *whole* episode and much more, head to https://www.patreon.com/tmdta!


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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians!


The Royal Society of Musicians is Britain’s oldest music charity and our aims remain as relevant today as they were in the earliest years – to provide vital financial assistance, advice and guidance to those professionally active in the world of music but who are unable to work due to accident, illness, stress or anxiety. Being a charity run by musicians for musicians, we are uniquely placed to fully understand the challenges faced within the profession.


Follow the Royal Society of Musicians on:

Instagram: @rsmgb

Twitter: @RSMusicians

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/royalsocietyofmusicians

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Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout

Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast


Editor: Katy Ehrlich & Rebecca Toal

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

63. Koshka Duff - Abolishing the Police22 Sep 202300:45:49

This episode is dedicated to Koshka’s wonderful piano teacher, Niel Immelman, who sadly passed away since it was recorded - and who made it all possible.


TW// sexual violence and assault, physical assault, police brutality


Becca first came across today's guest when she stumbled upon her collection of essays, Abolishing the Police. Philosophy professor, Koshka Duff (University of Nottingham), was largely inspired to compile this collection of essays on policing, dissent and abolition after her own traumatic experiences with the police. In 2013, when studying a Masters in piano performance at the Royal College of Music, Koshka was arrested after offering legal advice to a teenager undergoing a racist stop and search. She describes how the police assaulted her and left her with physical and psychological damage that continued to impact her life long after the event: she suspended her studies and had to confront the devastating possibility that she may never play the piano again. Koshka was able to return for her final recital a year after the event, and set out on a mission to heal by 'making and making up music' with her band, Stolen Goods, and via a pain management course through the NHS. The injuries left her with chronic pain that she still deals with, though more now as a "companion, rather than always an antagonist."


Koshka's album featuring several tracks recorded at her final recital

CD liner notes

The Stolen Goods EP

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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Feeling generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

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Follow the Royal Society of Musicians:

Instagram: @rsmgb

Twitter: @RSMusicians

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/royalsocietyofmusicians

Editor: Kaileigh Eaton

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

62. If Lewis Capaldi was a classical musician13 Sep 202300:35:47

For TMDTA's July Voices Radio appearance, Hattie and Becca discuss Lewis Capaldi's Glastonbury set and how this might translate in the classical music world. They also chat about their experiences of saying no as employees and as freelancers, Hattie's new adventures on bass guitar and Becca's new therapist. In the original show, the first half of Paul Denegri's episode played after their discussion, but now you can go and listen to the whole thing wherever you're listening to this episode.


Thank you as ever to Voices Radio for this platform, and thank you to you listeners for your ongoing support!


The guardian article Becca loved: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/26/lewis-capaldis-glastonbury-set-disability-centre-stage


Click here for the transcript


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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians!


The Royal Society of Musicians is Britain’s oldest music charity and our aims remain as relevant today as they were in the earliest years – to provide vital financial assistance, advice and guidance to those professionally active in the world of music but who are unable to work due to accident, illness, stress or anxiety. Being a charity run by musicians for musicians, we are uniquely placed to fully understand the challenges faced within the profession.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout

Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Follow the Royal Society of Musicians on:

Instagram: @rsmgb

Twitter: @RSMusicians

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/royalsocietyofmusicians


Editor: Rebecca Toal

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

61. Aaron Akugbo: BBC Proms, art and identity31 Aug 202301:07:53

Our amazing friend, trumpeter Aaron Akugbo, is about to make his BBC Proms debut with the Chineke! Orchestra - but there's more to his story. Determined to be unapologetic about his identity, Aaron takes us through the weird world of brass 'lad' culture, through to the rise of Black Lives Matter and navigating the brass world as someone facing direct and indirect discrimination for being both black and gay.


Discover Aaron on Instagram


His website is here


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now generously supported by the Royal Society of Musicians!


The Royal Society of Musicians is Britain’s oldest music charity and our aims remain as relevant today as they were in the earliest years – to provide vital financial assistance, advice and guidance to those professionally active in the world of music but who are unable to work due to accident, illness, stress or anxiety. Being a charity run by musicians for musicians, we are uniquely placed to fully understand the challenges faced within the profession.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout

Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Follow the Royal Society of Musicians on:

Instagram: @rsmgb

Twitter: @RSMusicians

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/royalsocietyofmusicians


Editor: Katy Ehrich

Music: Katy Ehrlich


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

60. Paul Denegri: multi-faceted by accident11 Jul 202300:58:07

Becca catches up with her former teacher, Paul Denegri, from his stay in an old farmhouse. The humblest of the humble, Paul takes us through his journey to where he is now: revisiting his unexpected appointment as Head of Brass at Wells Cathedral School; his feelings of imposter syndrome and disillusionment with the freelance musician lifestyle; and staying true to his identity. Paul's trademark openness and warmth is so refreshing in the world of classical music and music education, where prestige and resilience is so often touted as the pinnacle of success.


Thank you Paul for being the reason a lot of us from Wells fostered our passion for music and have ended up where we are now.


Paul's website: paul denegri

Paul on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pauldenegripandonltd/

Paul's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pauldenegri/


Click here for transcript

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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now generously supported by the Royal Society of Musicians!


The Royal Society of Musicians is Britain’s oldest music charity and our aims remain as relevant today as they were in the earliest years – to provide vital financial assistance, advice and guidance to those professionally active in the world of music but who are unable to work due to accident, illness, stress or anxiety. Being a charity run by musicians for musicians, we are uniquely placed to fully understand the challenges faced within the profession.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout

Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Follow the Royal Society of Musicians on:

Instagram: @rsmgb

Twitter: @RSMusicians

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/royalsocietyofmusicians


Editor: Rebecca Toal

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

59. Post-nap epiphanies02 Jul 202301:00:42

Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now generously supported by the Royal Society of Musicians!


The Royal Society of Musicians is Britain’s oldest music charity and our aims remain as relevant today as they were in the earliest years – to provide vital financial assistance, advice and guidance to those professionally active in the world of music but who are unable to work due to accident, illness, stress or anxiety. Being a charity run by musicians for musicians, we are uniquely placed to fully understand the challenges faced within the profession.


Episode notes:

(Episode recorded for our June Voices Radio show)


Before we get to Stu's post-nap's epiphanies, Becca monologues on a recent Instagram Q&A and delves into 'soul-care', doing laptop stuff, missing my eating disorder and practising for a recital. Then we head to the garden to chat with Stu about all things musician. We discuss:


  • getting back up after auditions
  • spinning the different freelancer plates
  • the hardest & easiest things about being a musician
  • being in a 'musician couple'
  • what music & podcasts been listening to


Click here for transcript


If you've been affected by any of the issues mentioned in this episode, head to our Resources page for further signposting and support.


Support us


Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta


Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout


Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about


Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast


Follow the Royal Society of Musicians on:

Instagram: @rsmgb

Twitter: @RSMusicians

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/royalsocietyofmusicians


Editor: Rebecca Toal

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

58. Gosia Garstka: the stigma of suicide08 Jun 202300:51:22

Tw: Mentions of suicide and it’s prevention


In a society opening up conversations around mental health, suicide is still severely stigmatised and misunderstood. Today we meet pianist Gosia Garska who volunteers at the Listening Place - a charity set up to hold space for people struggling with suicidal thoughts and ideation.


We discuss common myths around suicide, as well as how the Listening Place supports those with ongoing struggles. We also hear from Gosia about how work at the Listening Place has changed her life, both as a musician and personally and entering a space of non-judgement when listening to those dealing with thoughts of ending their life.


Thank you Gosia for sharing your experience with us 🙏


Discover The Listening Place


If you've been affected by any of the issues mentioned in this episode, head to our Resources page for further signposting and support.


Support us


Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta


Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout


Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about


Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast


Editor: @kaileigheato

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

57. a May Q&A: behind the scenes of the podcast18 May 202300:34:31

WE PASSED OUR VOICES RADIO TRIAL! Here's our most recent episode-show where we answer beautiful questions from our Insta followers (thanks you guys!). We chit-chat about our favourite and least favourite memories of TMDTA, Father Christmas and Wendy Christmas, a slightly different origin story of the podcast, the power of sharing our stories on social media, balancing pod commitments, Becca's wet cat and not treating the pod as a job. Thanks again to Voices Radio for giving us another platform to continue breaking down the barriers and talking about the things musicians don't talk about.


If you've been affected by any of the issues mentioned in this episode, head to our Resources page for further signposting and support.


Support us


Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta


Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout


Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about


Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast


Editor: Abbeydot - Audio Engineering for Women and LGBTQIA folks

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Photographer: Venetia Jollands

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

56. Emily Ashton: on getting arrested & musical protesting11 May 202300:59:01

This week we speak with the inspiring Emily Ashton, baroque cellist, viola da gambist and climate activist. Emily is a founding member of XR Baroque, a group of early music environmentalists who perform at Extinction Rebellion protests. We discuss how we process the overwhelm and anxiety that come with thinking about climate change, the murkiness of being a freelance musician and staying true to your beliefs, and the tension between the need for systemic and individualistic change in environmental action.

We are so grateful to Emily for talking with such eloquence and gravitas on one of the most important topics.


XR Baroque's Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/375287633080945/

Check out Extinction Rebellion's website to see how you can get involved: https://extinctionrebellion.uk


Support us


Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta


Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout


Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about


Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast


Edited by and music composed by Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

72. Q&A: TMDTA origins, music schools & workplace politics26 Apr 202400:45:04

We thought we'd celebrate hitting 3,000 Instagram followers as some sort of milestone in this crazy journey to cultivate much-needed honesty in the music industry! Every follower, every listener we connect with feels like a little headway in making change in the culture.


In this episode, we take some time to look back on our podcast journey so far, reminiscing about how we became a duo and how TMDTA has grown over the past 4 years. Thanks to questions from our listeners, we also reflect on our personal experiences with mental health, music schools, and our hopes about what has changed since we were school pupils. We ponder on the challenges of giving and receiving feedback in musical workplaces, as well our continuing commitment to being transparent about our struggles and aiming to bring others' stories to light.


Thanks for being here with us and here's to our ever-expanding community ❤️


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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians! Follow them on Instagram, X and Facebook.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon from £1 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Feeling generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

Find TMDTA on all the socials at @tmdtapodcast

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Editor: Rebecca Toal

Music: Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

55. Kathryn Williams: the flautist on life as a single parent & discrimination at work25 Apr 202300:43:22

On this episode, Hattie speaks with flautist Kathryn Williams, co-author of the Independent Society of Musicians's (ISM) Dignity at Work 2 study, which looked into the experiences of discrimination among those working in the music sector. They also speak about Kathryn's experiences as a single parent 11 years ago, navigating studying at the Royal Northern College of Music whilst being the sole carer for a 1-year-old.


Follow Kathryn on Instagram: @kathrynwilliamsflutes


Discover the ISM here

Parents in Performing Arts (PiPA) Campaign


Click here for transcript


If you've been affected by any of the issues mentioned in this episode, head to our Resources page for further signposting and support.


Support us


Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta


Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout


Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about


Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast


Edited by Hattie Butterworth

Music by Katy Ehrlich

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

54. Back by Popular Demand: arts cuts, audition burnout and performance anxiety12 Apr 202300:33:50

In this episode of Things Musicians Don't Talk About, Hattie and Becca chat from the cosiness of Hattie's new-ish house and perfect podcasting room. We have a candid conversation about the recent arts cuts and the precarity of freelancing, plus Becca's recent feelings of audition burnout, and how we've both experienced and dealt with (or not dealt with...) performance anxiety in the past.


Join us as we break down the barriers and continue to talk about the things musicians don't talk about.


(originally recorded for Voices Radio)


Click here for transcript


If you've been affected by any of the issues mentioned in this episode, head to our Resources page for further signposting and support.


Support us


Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon for £3 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta


Got a few pennies to spare? Buy us a Kofi! https://ko-fi.com/thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout


Feeling extra generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about


Follow us on all the socials: @tmdtapodcast


Edited by Rebecca Toal

Music by Katy Ehrlich

Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

53. Joe Hastings: Music Minds Matter 05 Apr 202300:39:34

Where do musicians go for support in a crisis? For many years Help Musicians UK has been the main source of advocacy, funding and research for musicians facing crises of health and finances in the UK.


In response to the increase in need for mental health support post pandemic, last autumn Help Musicians launched its subsidiary charity, Music Minds Matter to focus in on the mental health provision for musicians.


Today we speak to Head of the charity, Joe Hastings, about its launch, his own journey, the main patterns he is witnessing among musicians, supporting them in mental health challenges and the future goals of Music Minds Matter.


"Whatever you’re going through right now, you can contact Music Minds Matter on 0808 802 8008"


Click here for transcript


Find TMDTA on all the socials at @tmdtapodcast


Our website is: www.thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout.com


Help us raise funds for the pod here


Support us on Patreon for £3 a month and get access to extra episodes and content!


Or buy us a Kofi


Music and editing by Katy Ehrlich

Recorded at the Help Musicians offices, London

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

52. Ingela Onstad: on being more than 'just' a singer 02 Feb 202300:58:18

Today we are coming with a fascinating episode with Ingela Onstad, who is a psychotherapist and performance coach, as well as a professional soprano.


Both Rebecca and I have been interested in getting to know a musician who is also trained as a psychotherapist and were curious to understand how she deals with boundaries in her job. We explore all of this, asking for Ingela’s insight into diversifying her musician life, becoming more than ‘just’ a singer and helping people through a therapeutic lens.


Fiind Ingela on Instagram @courageousartistry


Her website is here


Click here for transcript


Find TMDTA on all the socials at @tmdtapodcast


Our website is: www.thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout.com


Support us on Patreon for £3 a month and get access to extra episodes and content!


Or buy us a Kofi


It's over and out from us for the year, and wishing you all an incredibly soul-warming holiday and New Year!


Love Becca, Katy and Hattie xx

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

51. Kate Kennedy: the biographer on how playing injury can lead to eating disorders30 Dec 202201:11:39

***This episode deals covers topics including eating disorders, mental illness and the Holocaust. Kate talks about them incredibly respectfully and not in graphic details, but for listeners that would rather sit this one out, we understand***


It's our last episode of 2022 and this time, we're speaking to the exceptional Dr. Kate Kennedy, broadcaster, academic, cellist and writer, who specialises in combining biography, words and music. She is also the Co-Director of the Oxford Centre for Life-writing and a research fellow at the University of Oxford.


We talk to her from the crypt of St. Clement Danes (with somebody's wedding going on above our heads), discussing her own experiences in life and in music, and about her current work on her book, Cello, an autobiography of the instrument itself and its musicians. We were particularly interested in her biography of war poet and musician, Ivor Gurney, speaking about his own struggles with mental illness and confinement to an asylum in later life. (Dweller in Shadows: A Life of Ivor Gurney, Princeton Press, 2021)


We're incredibly grateful to Kate for her eloquence and candidness about her own encounters with injury and struggles during her teenage years and early adulthood. It truly is a pleasure to listen to her, and interviewing her was such an enriching experience, and we cannot wait to read her future works.


Follow Kate on Twitter


Kate's website


Click here for transcript


Find TMDTA on all the socials at @tmdtapodcast


Our website is: www.thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout.com


Support us on Patreon for £3 a month and get access to extra episodes and content!


Or buy us a Kofi


It's over and out from us for the year, and wishing you all an incredibly soul-warming holiday and New Year!


Love Becca, Katy and Hattie xx

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

50. Three in A Bar: podcast twinning02 Dec 202200:43:12

This week we are coming from a North London living room with our wonderful friends from Three In A Bar Podcast. Verity Simmons (cello) and Seb Philpott (trumpet) join us for a 2-part series of collaborative podcasting and incredible company.


We talk about how podcasting has altered their lives, who writes the emails, their careers and experiences as freelancers and the Three In A Bar podcast genesis from in the pit of Funny Girl the Musical. We also learn about their most traumatic performance memories, and take to Classic FM's quizzes to discover Seb's cross-genre knowledge and the age of Verity's soul.


Keep your eyes peeled to the Three In A Bar podcast channel for part 2 out next week!


Follow Three In A Bar on Instagram and Twitter @threeinabar


Visit their website here!


Click here for transcript


The episode was edited by Katy Ehrlich.


Things Musicians Don't Talk About website: https://www.thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout.com


Sign up to our Patreon!


TMDTA Twitter


Facebook


Instagram


If you would like to support our work, why not buy us a Kofi?

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

49. Katy Ehrlich: the uncut edit04 Nov 202200:58:25

Introducing our producer, the wonderful flautist Katy Ehrlich. We are so excited to introduce Katy to you all and for you to hear the journey of her incredible life, and role in the pod, through county youth orchestra to Manchester University and then to the Royal Academy of Music for masters. Katy's journey uncovers a lot of the difficulties with music college environments and we discuss how hard it can be to be honest about your personal life and limitations whilst studying.


Katy also took us through the traumas of orchestra lists and the humiliation of not seeing your name. Her steps towards music editing for TV and film are so exciting and we loved learning more about her goals and insights into the sector. We also just have a hilarious chat!


We can't begin to imagine how such an honest and beautiful soul came to be our producer and we are beyond grateful to Katy for all she does and is!


Click here for transcript


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48. Betty Makharinsky: on life as a singer and organising the Vache Baroque Festival30 Sep 202200:51:34

‘It’s easy to slip into a mode of being 

where you think your life is happening to you and 

you’re stuck…you think you have to carry on xyz 

trajectory because that’s how it’s been for so long…’ 


This week’s guest is the soprano Betty Makharinsky who spoke to me (Hattie) during a day of rehearsals for the charity and organisation she co-founded, Vache Baroque Festival


Betty and I spoke about her difficulties with the music college system after leaving Oxford and how going too soon affected her development and confidence as a singer. She also speaks with so much wisdom about her love of teaching and the importance of the workshops run in schools by the Vache Baroque Festival. 


It was amazing to hear about Betty’s excitement for her future as a singer and having the confidence to commit to exploring everything she can with her voice and opportunities it may bring. 


Her love for singing is so infectious and wise and I think Betty put her mindset best when she said ‘- More and more I think it’s important to do everything in your life full-heartedly’


Thank you Betty for bringing such honesty and 

inspiration 🙏


Click here for transcript


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47. Hannah French: living & working with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome07 Sep 202201:06:04

This episode we are sharing the space with BBC Radio 3 presenter and flautist, Hannah French. Recorded in a North London office space, we listened as Hannah explained to us her journey to a diagnosis of Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, a collagen deficiency which affects the soft tissue and has impacted her ability to walk, play the flute and live life as she once knew it. She took us through the reality of living with EDS, and the process of moving away from flute performance and into her current job as a presenter at BBC Radio 3. We talked about the power that radio now has in her life, creating a space to tell stories and shape a listeners' experience and the process of creating the amazing documentary for Radio 3, The Silence of My Pain in 2020.


Thank you to Hannah for her honesty about her pain experience and for your wonderful presence and infectious humour!


Hannah's documentary, The Silence of My Pain, will be played again this Friday, 9th September on BBC Radio 3 at 10pm


Click here for transcripts


Wanna jump around? Timestamps:


0:00: Intro

2:25: Welcome to Hannah

4:00 What is EDS?

8:00: Discovering Hannah's EDS and playing the flute

14:25: Moving into academia and research

15:35: Accommodating people with disabilities in music

19:00: Acceptance of disability and illness

20:15: Pastoral welfare of students; working at the Royal Academy of Music as a lecturer and tutor

23:30: Loss of identity as a flautist

26:00: Moving into radio and working for the BBC

28:18: The liberation of radio

29:15: Does Hannah feel envious when presenting/watching performances?

31:45: The psychological impact of pain

36:30: Managing difficult emotions, anxiety and coping mechanisms

39:00: Working with and not against pain

41:50: Making the documentary, The Silence of My Pain

45:30: The importance of silence in Hannah's life

46:45: Fascination and flow

53:22: Unapologetic visibility

55:15: Starting conversations about pain and disability

56:35: Removing shame and presenting an honest depiction of pain

1:01:30: Wins of the week!




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46. Guy Withers: behind the scenes of Waterperry Opera Festival21 Jun 202200:58:38

This week on TMDTA, Becca and Hattie chat with Guy Withers, Artistic Director, founder and CEO of Waterperry Opera Festival, about this year's upcoming festival which will celebrate it's fifth anniversary with an innovative eight-day open-air collection of eight productions in Waterperry, Oxfordshire. As usual, Becca and Hattie want to know more about what's going on behind the shiny facade of such a successful festival and they chat with Guy about not only the festival's journey to fruition but also his personal experiences and how they have informed his current role. Guy shares with us the some of the trials and errors he's experienced whilst working at the festival and talks about them with such humility and such obvious passion for his work. Thank you Guy for your honesty and openness with us!


Transcript for this episode


“To celebrate our fifth anniversary as a festival, we have created an ambitious season of eight productions. With

returning favourites, and exciting new ventures, our broad programme has something for everyone, with each

offering as unique and thrilling as the next. We are taking artistic risks to create the exciting operatic experiences

that will captivate the next generation of audiences as well as our loyal followers.

Our focus this year as a company is creating new audiences for opera with inventive and accessible work, inspiring

local young people with free tickets for those under 16, and developing emerging talent with our Young Artist

Programme. We want to make sure there are no barriers to any young person enjoying or engaging with classical

music and opera.” - Guy Withers, Artistic Director & CEO


Waterperry Opera Festival: https://www.waterperryoperafestival.co.uk


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71. Chloé van Soeterstède: conducting through pregnancy & motherhood 05 Apr 202400:48:39

In this episode of Things Musicians Don't Talk About, Becca sits down with Chloé van Soeterstède in her dressing room at the Royal College of Music. Chloé shares her personal experiences of working as a musician alongside pregnancy and then motherhood. She walks us through her journey - from figuring out with her manager when might be the best time to get pregnant, to performing while visibly pregnant and giving birth naturally with the aid of mental preparation. Chloé also opens up about challenges like pumping breastmilk between rehearsals on tour and traveling internationally with a newborn, and making sure to be honest about her capacities through such a huge life transformation. Becca and Chloé emphasise how rare and important it is for musicians to discuss the realities of pregnancy and parenthood, and Chloé’s honest and candid story provides a much-needed glimpse into navigating this challenging but rewarding career stage.


Follow Chloé on Instagram and witness more of her brilliant honesty!

Check out her website and on X

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We always love to hear from our listeners, and if you like the show why not recommend to a friend or leave a review?

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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians! Follow them on Instagram, X and Facebook.

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Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Editor: Katy Ehrlich

Music: Katy Ehrlich

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45. Cliodhna Ryan: panic attacks on stage08 Jun 202201:17:29

Hattie and Rebecca are joined this week by violinist and podcaster Cliodhna Ryan. Delving into the years Cliodhna spent in the busyness of London, Cliodhna talks about her move back to Ireland and the creative projects that sprung from the move. Violinist in the Irish Chamber Orchestra, Cliodhna speaks about the realities of freelance life, as well as her experiences living with panic disorder and injury.


Cliodhna has her own podcast, Bittersweet Symphony, in which she speaks with fellow musicians about their lives during the desolation of the pandemic. The podcast asks what musicians experienced in that time, what they have taken from it and how it has impacted their self-worth and sense of identity.


Thank you to Cliodhna, who is now a firm friend and wonderful support of us!


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43. Declan Costello: vocal health and injury16 May 202200:39:12

Today we are joined by consultant laryngologist, voice disorders specialist and singer Declan Costello! We speak about common vocal injury among singers, the technicalities of his practice, what happens in vocal surgery and whether some injuries are irreversible. Check out Declan here


Declan's Biography

Mr Costello studied music at St John's College, Cambridge, where he was a choral scholar under Christopher Robinson. He went on to study medicine at Imperial College and undertook his ENT specialist training in the Oxford region.

He was appointed as a consultant ENT surgeon (specialising in voice disorders) at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham in August 2010. In December 2018 his NHS practice moved to Wexham Park Hospital in Berkshire.

Mr Costello runs weekly private clinics in London and Maidenhead and weekly NHS clinics in Wexham Park (Slough) and Heatherwood (Ascot).

Amongst his non-clinical duties, he is the editor of ENT & Audiology News magazine. He continues to sing regularly with a number of different groups.


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42. Rosie Bennet - Part 2 surviving anorexia13 May 202200:39:43

Trigger warning: eating disorders and mental illness


Part 2: We return to Rosie's story to hear about both the rock bottom and how she moved onwards and upwards past it. We would recommend listening to part 1 if you haven't already (released only a couple of days ago!) as this'll make a lot more sense with the rest of Rosie's story. We feel so incredibly honoured and grateful to Rosie for her time and vulnerability with us, and are so excited to see where Rosie goes in life with her brilliant self-awareness, musicality and strength.


Transcript for this episode


Rosie's Instagram: @rosiebennetguitar


Fret Not Pod: @fretnotpod


tonebase blog: https://www.tonebase.co/guitar/blog


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41. Rosie Bennet - Part 1 surviving anorexia11 May 202200:40:49

Trigger warning: eating disorders and mental illness


Part 1: We are extremely grateful to guitarist Rosie Bennet for letting us into the nooks and crannies of her life story. We talk about Rosie's musical training and her travels all over the world, and the subsequent dark periods in her life that culminated in a breakdown during her years at music college. The way in which Rosie speaks about her life and her music is so poetic and an absolute joy to listen to, despite the depth and heaviness of her journey.


Transcript of this episode


Part 2 will be released this Friday, in which we talk about Rosie's ascent back up from rock bottom.


Rosie's Instagram: @rosiebennetguitar


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tonebase blog: https://www.tonebase.co/guitar/blog


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40. 10k Q&A20 Apr 202200:48:52

We reached 10,000 downloads which we think sounds a lot so we did a celebratory Q&A episode! Admittedly we didn't get as many questions as we'd expected (for some reason we thought number of downloads = number of questions with no effort required ) but we still had a nice chat and an orange san pell on Hattie's bed.


Thanks as ever for your support and for your continued listenership, and here's to the next 10k!!


Transcript for this episode


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Get in touch with your comments, questions, love letters... and if you fancy leaving us a review, we'd massively appreciate it <3


Transcript available soon - busy week, sorry!

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39. Vic Isfryn: pregnancy discrimination13 Apr 202200:49:23

Oh hey there again and thanks for joining us for episode 39!


I could listen to Vic talk all day, honestly. Today, we present to you our chat about life as a freelance musician parent and Vic's experiences of pregnancy discrimination - a very real but seldom talked about topic. Vic herself is an amazing trumpet player who frequently appears on TV as well as performing to a live audience. She's performed at the BBC Music Awards, Strictly Come Dancing, Britains Got Talent and This Morning, as well as performing with artists such as Rod Stewart, Charlotte Church, John Cale and Robin S. Victoria has worked in the West End as a dep and with touring shows such as Wicked, Miss Saigon, Funny Girl, Follies, Evita and on the production of Astley’s Astounding Adventures. She’s played with a number of the UKs leading orchestras including the Hallé, Welsh Pops Orchestra, Royal National Scottish Orchestra, British Sinfonietta and plays with Pop bands and function bands such as The Old Dirty Brassards, Oompah Brass and The House and Garage Orchestra.

Victoria also enjoys performing solo recitals for events and concert venues playing a wide variety of music.


Thank you Vic for your openness - you're our hero and the way you're spreading awareness is *chefs kiss*


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38. Rakhi Singh: a new path07 Apr 202201:04:12

Today we are thrilled to release our conversation with violinist and co-founder of the Manchester Collective, Rakhi Singh.

Speaking with Rakhi was so joyful and restorative. We discuss her life within the Manchester Collective, how they continue to push boundaries and what ‘daring collaborations’ mean. We go on to talk about chamber music and the ways in which we can feel restricted in the definition we have created within classical music.

Rakhi suggests a more integrative and whole approach to music education, asking why playing pieces that we actually enjoy can so often not be our top priority when studying. We also question why classical musicians only learn three types of scales, how to embrace feeling lost and spirituality within music.

Thank you to Rakhi for your openness and kindness, we are really grateful to be sharing this conversation with you all.


Transcript for this episode


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37. Cara Houghton, CUKSN and Burnout21 Mar 202200:56:01

Hattie and Rebecca are joined by the chair of the Conservatoires UK Student Network, Cara Houghton to speak about their Burnout Campaign in collaboration with Healthy Conservatoires, starting this week from 21-26 March.


Rebecca and Hattie go on to discuss their own experiences of burnout, the difference between mental illness and burnout and Hattie’s experience living in a convent to get away from musical life! They also go on to speak about Rebecca’s experience with running and leaving running behind as the next step in her recovery from eating disorders and exercise addiction.


Follow the burnout campaign on the CUKSN Instagram account.


Transcript of this episode


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36. Jocelyn Lightfoot: identity and grief18 Mar 202201:18:33

Wow, what a conversation we had with Jocelyn. We discuss the London Chamber Orchestra's recent-ish decision to drop their dress code, but before we get into that we talk about her life before being appointed the Managing Director of LCO, and now the CEO of Three Worlds Group. Freelance life is a struggle at the best of times, and we are so so grateful to Jocelyn for speaking so powerfully about her experiences and thoughts on the subject.


This felt like such an important and energising conversation, particularly as our first in-person interview (all the way down in the depths of South London), and it was so wonderful to talk to a musician such as Jocelyn who now works in more of a managerial role, but who has also experienced the intensity of freelancing, and is determined to make a change in the world of music. Jocelyn, you are our absolute hero.


Transcript of this episode


LCO's website: https://www.lco.co.uk


Please consider leaving us a review and rating if you can, as this really helps us reach new listeners, grow our community and normalise these conversations!


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70. Queerness and power abuse in classical music: Tár & Maestro07 Mar 202400:28:36

Another chatty episode for you lovely lot! This was recorded for our last Voices radio slot in February 2023. Hattie and Becca chat about queerness in classical music, exploring our opinions on the films Tár and Maestro, and how we feel power dynamics and hero-worship were portrayed in them. As we've seen over the past few decade or so, teacher-student relationships can be such a dangerous environment if those positions of authority are abused, and so we take a further look into what exactly it is about them that musicians don't talk about and why.


We always love to hear from our listeners, and if you like the show why not recommend to a friend or leave a review?

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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians! Follow them on Instagram, X and Facebook.

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Support TMDTA

Want to support us on a regular basis? Consider joining our Patreon from £1 a month: https://www.patreon.com/tmdta

Feeling generous? Help us raise funds for the podcast: https://www.gofundme.com/f/things-musicians-dont-talk-about

Find TMDTA on all the socials at @tmdtapodcast

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Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Editor: Rebecca Toal

Music: Katy Ehrlich



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35. The One Where They Actually Record Everyone in the Same Room23 Feb 202200:45:38

This episode, Hattie and Becca are joined by BOP* Stuart Beard. They chat (unsurprisingly) about life as a freelance musician, Hattie’s big move to London, the Sunk Cost Fallacy, turning opportunities down and general other chatty topics.

Listen wherever you usually get your podcasts, and if you can, please leave us a review and subscribe!


*(Boyfriend of the Pod)


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34. Frances Wilson, The Cross-Eyed Pianist11 Feb 202201:03:18


Frances Wilson, publicist and writer/blogger extraordinaire talks to Hattie and Rebecca about her blog and other work, her love of live music, lack of creative motivation in lockdown, and what it's like to get to know the artists behind the music. She is most famed for her wonderful blog, The Cross-Eyed Pianist, and her popular series of written interviews, Meet the Artist, that is about to turn 10 years old! We are incredibly grateful to Frances for her time and her wisdom.


p.s apologies for the questionable audio quality - Hattie and I forgot to wear headphones and it caused all manner of problems in the 'editing studio'...


Frances' bio:

Frances Wilson is a publicist and writer/blogger on classical music and the piano under the pen name The Cross-Eyed Pianist. Frances has established a strong presence in the UK classical music world through her blog The Cross-Eyed Pianist (founded in 2010) and her many contacts with musicians through the popular Meet the Artist interview series (launched in 2012).

In addition to her blog, Frances is co-founder/editor of ArtMuseLondon, an independent website focusing on reviews of art, music and culture. She has appeared on BBC Radio 3's Music Matters to discuss the role of music criticism today and the effect of the internet on music journalism and writing. She is a writer for Hong Kong-based classical music site Interlude HK, and has contributed articles to Pianist magazine and The Schubertian, the journal of the Schubert Institute UK. She is concerts manager for Weymouth Lunchtime Chamber Concerts, a monthly recital series founded in 2002 by pianist Duncan Honeybourne. Frances returned to the piano seriously after an absence of nearly 25 years and achieved Licentiate and Associate performance diplomas, both with Distinction, in her late 40s. She has studied privately with leading pianist-teachers Penelope Roskell and Graham Fitch, and participated in masterclasses and coaching sessions with Murray McLachlan, Stephen Savage, James Lisney, Charlotte Tomlinson and Sarah Beth Briggs.

TMDTA!


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33. Ollie West: depression, anxiety and suicidal ideation18 Jan 202200:52:21

Ollie West is an incredibly talented singer-songwriter, as well as being an avid appreciator of classical music. We speak about his experience with anxiety surrounding traditional music education and about the differences between studying within popular music and classical music.


Ollie shares his experiences with anxiety, depression and binge eating disorder. During the pandemic, Ollie's mental health reached crisis point as he began to deal with panic attacks and suicidal thoughts.


It can feel easy to declare yourself 'unworthy' of the suffering you experience, especially, as Ollie puts it, if you are someone of able-bodied, male and white appearance. Ollie has moved away from this destructive mindset and into one of desire to help others with his story. Ollie's message is universal and is vitally important as a step towards supporting men's mental health. We are so grateful to Ollie and all he is!


Transcript of this episode


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32. December chats - medication, rejections and whether art is a way of life16 Dec 202100:48:55

TMDTA hosts Rebecca Toal and Hattie Butterworth discuss their experiences taking psychiatric medication following Dr Alex George's PostYourPill campaign. They talk about the stigma and image around being someone with a mental illness within the classical music world and how important campaigns like this are for normalising people's experiences.


They also talk over the Royal Opera House's recent merchandise, featuring Margot Fonteyn's statement of the all-consuming nature of art as a way of life. We discuss whether or not we agree and also move onto talk about rejection, Rebecca's recent auditions and how traumatising rejection from the National Youth Orchestra was for Hattie!


If you want to keep up with us, we are online pretty much everywhere!


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31. Anil Umer, live at the Royal Academy of Music08 Dec 202100:41:28

During our Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, we interviewed Soft Tissue Therapist and Injury Rehabilitation specialist, Anil Umer about his experience of injury, as someone who has both suffered from one personally and treated others. We thank Anil for his openness and his wisdom!


Anil is a freelance cellist, Injury Rehabilitation Specialist and Soft Tissue Therapist. He works both privately and in clinic, and has treated professional musicians, dancers and Olympic athletes. Having had to temporarily quit performing due to a shoulder injury, he has a passionate interest in helping people overcome chronic musculoskeletal issues. Anil Studied at Oxford University and was awarded a full postgraduate scholarship to the Royal Academy of Music where he was the winner of numerous awards, including the Philharmonia’s Martin Musical Scholarship and the Countess of Munster Postgraduate Award. A committed ensemble musician, Anil now performs with the Morello Quartet.


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30. Bob Hughes (in full)27 Nov 202100:54:46

Last week was our Musicians' Injury Awareness Week and we were absolutely blown away by all the support and love we received before, during and after it. Included in the week was Becca's interview with the lovely Bob Hughes about his journey will Focal Dystonia. Bob said so many amazing things that couldn't be squeezed into just a 20 minute mini-episode, so we're releasing the whole interview today! Thank you Bob!


Born in Wales, Bob studied the Bass trombone from 1976 at the RAM with Harold Nash and was the winner of the Sydney Langston Brass Prize. Bob’s first job was with the BBC Scottish Symphony at the age of twenty. He then went on to play with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra, The Philharmonia and the London Symphony Orchestra. Bob has made multiple recordings with these orchestras including soundtracks for blockbuster films such as Star Wars, Harry Potter and Braveheart. He has toured extensively throughout Europe, Americas and Asia. Bob began teaching Bass Trombone at the Academy in 1989 and many of his students hold orchestral positions in the UK. Bob was president of the British trombone society from 2006 -2010 and there is a biannual competition named after him - The Bob Hughes Bass Trombone Competition.


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MIAW 2021 - Angela McCuiston21 Nov 202100:17:22

Welcome to the final episode in the Musicians' Injury Awareness Week monologue series! It's been the most amazing week of discussion, connection and creativity. We are excited to commit to supporting musicians suffering with injury far beyond this week.


Flutist and musicians personal trainer Angela McCuiston speaks to us about her journey with an injury, leading her to further research, study and to launching her business, Music Strong, supporting musicians with rehabilitation and prevention through strength training.


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MIAW 2021 - Murphy Robertson20 Nov 202100:13:12
It's the inaugural Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, and today's injury story comes from Murphy Robertson. 

Murphy was studying saxophone at Guildhall School of Music and Drama when she started experiencing chronic pain in her jaw. She talks to us about what happened, and where she went from there.

Share your injury stories using the hashtag #MIAW2021 and tag us! The more discussion, the merrier. 

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MIAW 2021 - Songeun Choi19 Nov 202100:19:49

Songeun Choi talks about her experience with injury from her time at school onwards and how it's affected her ability to play, practise and fulfil commitments. Thank you for your openness and honesty Songeun!


Songeun Choi is a soloist and enthusiastic chamber musician. A graduate of the Royal Academy of Music, she studied with William Fong and Diana Ketler. During her studies ,she was supported by scholarships and was awarded DipRAM and the Dorothy Bryant Award. She has performed in venues including Steinway Hall, Fazioli Concert Hall, Barbican, Wigmore Hall, King's Place, Klassische Klavier Festival in Austria and the Venue in Leeds.


Share your injury stories using the hashtag #MIAW2021 and tag us! The more discussion, the merrier.


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MIAW 2021 - Bob Hughes18 Nov 202100:20:29

It's the inaugural Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, and today's injury story comes from Bob Hughes. A sufferer of focal dystonia, Bob shares with us what it was like to go through such an experience whilst still working and teaching. He talks about the difficulty in trying to find out what exactly was wrong, his trips to see various dystonia specialists, and the support he received from those around him. 

Born in Wales, Bob studied the Bass trombone from 1976 at the RAM with Harold Nash and was the winner of the Sydney Langston Brass Prize. Bob’s first job was with the BBC Scottish Symphony at the age of twenty. He then went on to play with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra, The Philharmonia and the London Symphony Orchestra.

Bob has made multiple recordings with these orchestras including soundtracks for blockbuster films such as Star Wars, Harry Potter and Braveheart. He has toured extensively throughout Europe, Americas and Asia.

Bob began teaching Bass Trombone at the Academy in 1989 and many of his students hold orchestral positions in the UK. Bob was president of the British trombone society from 2006 - 2010 and there is a biannual competition named after him - The Bob Hughes Bass Trombone Competition.

Share your injury stories using the hashtag #MIAW2021 and tag us! The more discussion, the merrier. 

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69. Zygmund de Somogyi: burnout, belonging, and community in composition 04 Mar 202400:49:11

This week we come to you (unintentionally) from the Royal Opera House! We speak with composer, theatre-maker, and journalist Zygmund de Somogyi about growing up with Autism Spectrum Disorder, not fitting in to the classical music world, discovering the world of composing, their experiences of imposter syndrome and feeling disconnected from the world around them. Zyggy is now studying opera composition and discusses how they fell into opera and what it's like to work as an opera composer in the current climate. Thank you to Zyggy for their brilliant honesty and commitment to talk about the things musicians don't talk about.


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Join us on Things Musicians Don't Talk About for more honest chats about life as musicians. We always love to hear from our listeners, and if you like the show why not recommend to a friend or leave a review?


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Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now supported by the Royal Society of Musicians! Follow them on Instagram, X and Facebook.

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Hosts: Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Editor: Patrick Emeribe

Music: Katy Ehrlich

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MIAW 2021 - Sophia Kannathasan17 Nov 202100:11:01

Today Sophia Kannathasan tells us about her playing injury, which was diagnosed as golfers elbow. She takes us through the process of grieving playing violin, readjusting her priorities and healing with time, increasing playing incrementally. She also speaks about the rewards of mental practice and score study, both of which still form a part of her violin work.



Adamant about giving an honest account of being an up-and-coming musician, Sophia has reached people all over the world through her Instagram account.

 

Sophia has performed as part of chamber groups, orchestras, pit bands and as a soloist in various cities all over the UK, notably the Chineke! Junior Orchestra. Sophia has performed as part of an orchestra at the Royal Festival, the Royal Albert Hall and the Barbican. She led the Redbridge Music School Symphony Orchestra and co-led the University of Leeds Chamber Orchestra. She also led a string quartet that performed at Hampton Court Palace for Prince Edward.

 

Born in 2000 and raised in Ilford, England, Sophia Kannathasan studied with Roberta Sullivan at the Redbridge Music Service. She is currently on a placement year at Saffron Hall, a thriving concert hall in Essex, as part of her degree with the University of Leeds. She is now studying with John Crawford. She currently plays on a violin made around 1750 by Richard Duke.


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MIAW 2021 - Peter Regan16 Nov 202100:18:01

Day 2 of the first Musicians' Injury Awareness Week brings us Peter Regan's story. 


Peter recently graduated from the Royal College of Music and this summer founded Fulham Fest with two friends. In his last year of study, he developed an injury in his hands, affecting not only his playing but also his mental well-being. Luckily, the pandemic seemed to come at just the right time for Peter as it meant that he could take things a little easier and pace his practice to suit him and his injury. Like many of us, he started doing some at-home yoga which seemed to help, but didn't completely remedy his injury. But then he accidentally linked up with a mobility coach, Mark McCourt (The Guy Who Didn't Settle), through social media. Mark showed him some joint exercises to develop a fuller range of motion, and Peter's eyes were opened to another level of looking after oneself and injury prevention. 


Follow Peter on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p.e.t.e.r_r.e.g.a.n/

and Fulham Fest: https://www.instagram.com/fulhamfest/


Click here for transcript


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MIAW 2021 - Francesca Leo15 Nov 202100:19:58

Flutist Francesca Leo takes us through her journey of long-term injury, somatic education practices and the process of setting up Playing Without Pain


As both flutist and entrepreneur, Francesca has used her own injury experience to connect injured musicians to resources and advice they may need.


Share your injury stories using the hashtag #MIAW2021 and tag us! The more discussion, the merrier. 


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29. Clare Hammond: the terror of post-natal depression18 Oct 202100:52:57

Welcome back! Today Hattie and Rebecca speak with concert pianist Clare Hammond about her experience with generalised anxiety disorder, post-natal depression and how these experiences have lead Clare to performances in schools and prisons. They speak about managing a mental illness as a musician, how it might feel to inhabit a prolonged period of darkness, how and whether to communicate struggle with audiences and Clare's work within prisons.

Find Clare's article for Classical Music UK about music in prisons here

Find Changing Tunes for music in prisons here

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More about Clare

Acclaimed as a “pianist of extraordinary gifts” (Gramophone) and “immense power” (The Times), Clare Hammond is recognised for the virtuosity and authority of her performances. In 2016, she won the Royal Philharmonic Society's 'Young Artist Award' in recognition of outstanding achievement and in 2020 she was engaged to perform at the International Piano Series (Southbank Centre). 

 Performances during the pandemic included recitals for the Wigmore Hall and Aldeburgh Music, a live recital broadcast for BBC Radio 3 Lunchtime Concerts from St David’s Cardiff, and broadcast recordings of Moussa and Carwithen with the BBC Symphony Orchestra (Geoffrey Paterson) and BBC Concert Orchestra (Gavin Sutherland). During 2020-21, Clare was engaged to perform with the Britten Sinfonia (Ryan Wigglesworth), Sinfonia Varsovia (Jacek Kaspszyk), Royal Philharmonic Orchestra (Christoph Altstaedt) and the BBC Symphony Orchestra (Dalia Stasevska). In recent seasons, she has performed with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra (Vasily Petrenko), Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra (Jacek Kaspszyk), and Philharmonia (Jamie Phillips). 

 Clare gave the world premiere of Uncoiling The River by Kenneth Hesketh with the BBC National Orchestra of Wales (Martyn Brabbins) and released the Complete Keyboard Works of Myslivecek with the Swedish Chamber Orchestra (Nicholas McGegan) for BIS Records in 2019. Clare’s discs for BIS have been widely praised with her latest, Variations, receiving extensive critical approval. The disc was commended for its “shimmering pianism and lightly-worn virtuosity” (BBC Music Magazine) and “artistry of the highest order” (Musical Opinion), while Crescendo (Belgium) hailed her as “one of the most exploratory pianistic personalities of our time”. Clare’s discography includes world premiere recordings of over twenty works. 

 Clare completed a BA at Cambridge University, where she obtained a double first in music, and undertook postgraduate study with Ronan O’Hora at the Guildhall School of Music & Drama.

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28. Ellie Consta: conforming no more27 Sep 202100:46:11

This time on Things Musicians Don't Talk About, we meet Ellie Consta, the founder of Her Ensemble. We talk about the struggles of lockdown, life as a musician, and her growing discomfort with the classical music world as it stands today. These issues together lead her to set up Her Ensemble, the UK's first women and non-binary orchestra, which is taking the classical music scene by storm.


Thank you to Ellie for all of the incredibly important work that she is doing, and for speaking to us so honestly and openly.



London based violinist, arranger and director Ellie Consta leads an exciting and varied musical career performing in a range of musical genres. Ellie’s versatility and diverse range of interests and influences means she appears regularly with world renowned orchestras, ensembles and chamber groups, as well as world class artists and bands. Recent highlights include performing for Louis Tomlinson, Pixie Lott, Tom Walker, Laura Marling, and Jack Savoretti, as well as arranging music for Wilma Archer, Flyte, Litany and Caitlyn Scarlett. Since graduating from the Royal College of Music with a first class Honours MPerf degree, Ellie has been offered contracts with the CBSO and ESO, as well as working regularly with the LPO, Spira Mirabilis, Britten Sinfonia, the 12 Ensemble, United Strings of Europe and leading Guy Barker’s Big Band. She was also a member of the European Union Youth Orchestra for four years and is currently on trial for a sub-principal position with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Most recently, Ellie founded Her Ensemble, the UK’s first women and non-binary orchestra who made their debut this month at Battersea Arts Centre. Since forming in November 2020, the group have already recorded a feature film score for BBC Scotland, performed alongside Pixie Lott and LITANY and been featured by The Strad, Scala Radio and Help Musician’s UK. 



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