What is really happening at the southern U.S. border and is it possible to consider even something like immigration from a children's rights perspective?

Our Pro-Child Politics author featured today is Lora Ries, the Director of the Border Security and Immigration Center at the Heritage Foundation. You'll finish this episode feeling much more informed at the children's rights violations happening at the border and some ideas for what can be done to make it right.

Follow Lora on X https://x.com/lora_ries

and read more of her work at https://www.heritage.org/staff/lora-ries

*Disclamer: We discuss mature themes in this podcast*

In this episode, Jon Schweppe from the American Principles Project joins us to shed light on his powerful chapter in Pro-Child Politics, fighting back against the porn industry. Jon exposes some big lies about pornography, the impact on minors and how we can fight back. Discover why the government has both the power and the duty to regulate this dangerous material and how we can safeguard our kids in the digital age.

Pre-Order Pro-Child Politics today!

• Substack: https://jonschweppe.substack.com/

• https://www.instagram.com/jonschweppe/

• X @JonSchweppe

• https://americanprinciplesproject.org/profile/jon-schweppe/

Them Before Us staff Jenn & Patience explore Nancy Verrier's groundbreaking 1993 book, "The Primal Wound," which has stirred debate among scholars, parents, adoptees and psychologists. They dip into the existing research about maternal separation and what we know about surrogacy, the million dollar industry separating babies from their mothers for money.

Emma Water's latest article on what we know and don't about surrogacy's impact on children. And for our interview with Emma about her research, check out episode #27.

In this episode you will hear from Brad Wilcox, a professor of sociology and director of the National Marriage Project at the University of Virginia. He's written a new book on the importance of marriage and why it's good for all of us.

Buy Get Married: Why Americans Must Defy the Elites, Forge Strong Families, and Save Civilization

Find more from Professor Wilcox:

• https://twitter.com/BradWilcoxIFS
• https://ifstudies.org/

In this episode, we get a sneak peak into Katy's third book, a collaboration of experts on how every major political issue (energy, education, business) could be seen from the perspective of children's rights. Katy also gives us the rundown on her upcoming Rome trip for the Casablanca Declaration meeting.

Next we take on some questions from social media:

• What are some of the differences in care and investment from non-related adults in a child's life compared to a biological parent?
• What is "selective reduction" in IVF and what are the statistics?

(PLEASE NOTE: At min 17:25, Katy accidentally says "adoption" twice when she means to say "abortion." Selective Reduction is a term used to mean culling out or terminating human embryos, generally when multiple embryos implant and that was not intended.)

• Is the Pro-Life movement going to hope the IVF controversy fades away since it's not a winning political issue?
• Michigan is set to overturn it's ban on surrogacy for pay (commercial surrogacy). Why is commercial surrogacy so important to some?
• What's the best way to handle being invited to a surrogacy baby shower?

In today's episode, we get to hear from Delano Squires, a Research Fellow in the Richard and Helen DeVos Center for Life, Religion, and Family at The Heritage Foundation. His research, writing, and commentary focuses on marriage, family, and fatherhood.

You can find more from Delano at:

https://twitter.com/DelanoSquires

https://www.heritage.org/staff/delano-squires

In this episode, we hear from Dr. Warren Farrell, who wrote a book called "The Boy Crisis" and has written and spoken for many years about the challenges facing men and boys in Western Culture. Let us know what you think.

https://warrenfarrell.com/

https://boycrisis.org/

Katy and Jenn go over some interesting news around IVF and donor conception, including a woman who learned at 39 that she dated her half brother in high school and has 22 half siblings. Ireland's redefinition of womanhood and family is also considered.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/opinion/irelands-about-to-take-women-out-of-its-constitution/

https://wng.org/opinions/ireland-erases-women-1709787556

Jenn and Katy chat about the Alabama State Supreme Court's ruling on IVF and a number of other questions from social media or listeners:

• Will the Alabama decision change the IVF industry?
• How should we speak to our church friends who say they're Prolife but are in favor of IVF and disagree with the Alabama ruling?
• Stat we quote: 1.7 million embryos created for IVF have been thrown away, and just 7 per cent lead to pregnancy
• How do we respond to people who've already participated in children's rights violating technologies and practices?
• How should we interact with those who are considering using these processes or technologies and haven't yet?
• What's Them Before Us' stance on "fertility treatments?" and is there an ethical way to do IVF? What about IUI?
• NaProTechnology (We're not advocating for this specific office, but just trying to give people the language, a link to check it out for yourself)
• What's the best way to interact with compassion and truth to a same-sex couple living next door with kids your kid's age?
• How to change laws in your state?
• Embryo adoption?
• Should divorced Christians date/remarry?

Jenn interviews Lezlee, a member of the Not Parent Expected (NPE) community on her experiences growing up and coming to learn the man who raised her wasn't her biological father.

Check out more from Lezlee at her website: www.iamlezlee.com and her book, If You Only Knew: Navigating DNA Surprises and the *NPE (Not-Parent Expected) World.

Other resources Lezlee mentioned were:

https://www.hiraethhopeandhealing.com/

https://dnasurpriseretreat.com/

Jenn chats with long time friend of Them Before Us, Stephanie Blessing about discovering she was conceived using a sperm "donor" (she likes to make it clear she doesn't consider it altruistic or a donation) and how it impacted her life, both in answering questions she'd always had but also in shaking up the life she thought she knew.

My Daddy's Name is Donor - https://thembeforeus.com/my-daddys-name-is-donor-study/

Stephanie's story on TBU - https://thembeforeus.com/stephanie-blessing-2/

Jenn interviews Joey Pontarelli, the Founder & CEO of Restored, a ministry to "to help teens and young adults from divorced and broken families heal and build virtue, so they can break the cycle of dysfunction and divorce." They talk about the negative impacts of divorce on their own lives and in the lives of the teens and young adults Joey ministers to and how we can rebuild a healthy marriage culture.

See more at https://restoredministry.com/.

One of the experts who submitted a chapter for "Pro-Child Politics" joins Jenn on the Them Before Us podcast today. Dan Caldwell is a former Marine and veteran of the Iraq War and now serves as the Public Policy Advisor for the foreign policy thinktank Defense Priorities. Check out more from Dan at defensepriorities.org or on X @dandcaldwell.

Content Caution: We talk about some stories of child abuse perpetuated by people who used surrogacy in the middle of the episode.

In today's episode, Katy gives an update on Them Before Us' filming in Vancouver and Jenn digs into Katy's two latest articles, "Meet 5 Accused Pedophiles Who Bought Kids Through Surrogacy" & "I Paused My Career To Have Children And It Was The Best Decision I Ever Made."

Federalist: Meet 5 Accused Pedophiles Who Bought Kids Through Surrogacy

Evie Magazine: I Paused My Career To Have Children And It Was The Best Decision I Ever Made | Evie Magazine

Katy is back from a weekend of speaking and meetings in our nation's capital during March for Life weekend and we take on a few more questions from listeners:

- What should nurses that work with labor, delivery and other professions that encounter children's rights violating technologies do?

- How should the parent at home help their kids handle parent absence because of jobs like military deployment?

- How can we make evangelicals listen to the ethical issues with IVF and surrogacy?

In this episode, Jenn and Katy talk about the Pope's latest comments on surrogacy and whether or not surrogacy and poly-relationships are mentioned and encouraged in the Bible. Katy and Jenn finish by dissecting a YouTube video telling men not to get married: The DEVASTATING Truth of No-Fault Divorce

• https://time.com/6553397/pope-francis-surrogacy-ban/

• https://www.npr.org/2023/12/18/1220077102/pope-francis-blessings-same-sex-couples

• Check out our friend Olivia and her comment and letter to the Pope that might have had an influence.

• https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/

Jenn and Katy tackle another around of questions from the audience:

• Is it moral to have big families with so many kids that need to be adopted?
• Can you talk about the ethics of third party reproduction if you haven't dealt with infertility?
• Is it okay for a parent to get remarried after a Biblical divorce?
• How should someone handle not wanting to attend the same-sex wedding of a family member or friend?
• Is it okay for a woman to freeze her eggs if they're not fertilized?
• What's the children's rights perspective on embryo adoption? (Check out Katy's Federalist Article.)

On this episode, Jenn got to chat with researcher Emma Waters on her work regarding surrogacy and third party reproduction. "Emma is a Research Associate in the Richard and Helen DeVos Center for Life, Religion, and Family at The Heritage Foundation."

• Emma's latest article at World Magazine: https://wng.org/opinions/exploiting-the-vulnerable-1702897285

• Cremieux Recueil's substack on the harms of surrogacy

• You can follow Emma @emlwaters on X

Katy and Jenn chat about the TBU stance on adoption and foster care, whether or not a single mom should pursue dating, the SNL skit about gay men trying to have a baby and more.

• Is Them Before Us anti-adoption/foster care?
• Katy's thoughts on the SNL skit about gay men "trying to have a baby."
• How has Big Fertility (ivf, surrogacy, etc) gotten away with not having the same standards as adoption?
• What's the difference between surrogacy and adoption when a child loses birth mom in both?
• Should a single mom be trying to force a relationship with her child's bio dad, stay single, or try dating?
• Should step-parents adopt their stepchildren when bio parent isn't in the picture?

With the recent purchases of babies from prominent gay men in American culture, Katy and Jenn consider whether or not we're allowed to critique methods of conception that violate the rights of children or if all opposition to surrogacy makes a person "anti-LGBT."

Check out Olivia's interview with Allie: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7JXYJnxLfLuJ1yav0OZ74d

Katie B. and Jenn talk about the latest study saying the kids raised by two men do better than everyone else's kids and why when we look at studies about same-sex parenting, we see that the decades of social science data is always true: a child does best raised by married bio mom + dad.

In this episode, Jenn and Katy follow up this week's Virtual Gala with a conversation about our 2024 projects (our upcoming documentary, a human resources package that doesn't violate a child's rights and more) and answer all the burning questions we didn't get to from the webinar and social media.

• Does Them Before Us have plans for Canada, Central and South America?

• Does divorce impact adult children as well? (See our TBU article on this here.)

• Will TBU share their opinion on which political candidates are "children's rights friendly?"

• How does TBU think about the tensions of daycare and a child's need for care from mom and dad? (Check out Erika Komisar's work here and her speech at the ARC.)

• What are TBU's policy recommendations for tightening no-fault divorce laws while still protecting women from abuse?

• Are we doing work connected to foster care?

• Are we working to get pornography websites to age verify across the U.S. to protect children?

• What can we do to encourage more peer reviewed publications and studies that verify this work?
• Who has more authority over children? The biological parents or the state?

In this episode, Jenn and Katy share their London experience at the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship, the better story for marriage & family in the future, why they believe this is a global movement, and how we can create a better marriage & family culture in our own lives.

In this episode, Jenn introduces the Them Before Us audience to TBU's Executive Director Josh Wood and they chat about TBU's new book, Pro-Child Politics, a compilation of authors presenting major political topics from the perspective of children's rights. Josh chats about the resource this book will be before the election and his contribution to the book, the conclusion.

Pre-order your copy today! https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Child-Politics-Cultural-Economic-National/dp/B0D6LT3ZB3

Jenn is joined by author and professor Melissa Moschella for an in-depth conversation on natural law, how it helps humanity flourish, and serves as the basis for protecting the rights of children.

For more of Professor Moschella's work, check out: https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/author/melissa-moschella/

Jenn and Katy talk about the newly elected U.S. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson and his "covenant marriage", their upcoming London travel plans to join the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship Conference, and Melissa Kearney's new book "The Two-Parent Privilege: How Americans Stopped Getting Married and Started Falling Behind".

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ARC Forum: https://www.arcforum.com/

NPR article discussed: https://www.npr.org/2023/10/22/1207322878/single-parent-married-good-for-children-inequality

Business Insider article discussed: https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-johnson-covenant-marriage-definition-divorce-speaker-house-2023-10?op=1

Virtual Webinar: https://bit.ly/TBUgala

In this episode, Jenn had the honor of interviewing brilliant legal scholar, author, and speaker Professor Robert P. George. George helps us further understand the concept of "natural law" and the rights & responsibilities adults have concerning justice in a society and the rights of children. You can see more of Professor George's work at his website: https://robertpgeorge.com/.

Jenn and Katy chat about a woman who determined to use a sperm donor and become a "single mom by choice" in her 40's and about EPSN anchor and host Erin Andrews' infertility journey that culminated in using a surrogate. Unfortunately her "new way to talk about surrogacy" disregards the rights of the children.

Katie Breckenridge has been involved with Them Before Us almost since its inception in 2018 and is a writer and scholar on the topics TBU covers. In today's episode, Jenn and Katie talk about "gray divorce" and some of the effects of it on adult children.

"As the phenomenon known as “gray divorce,” or divorce over the age of 50, increases (34.9 percent of all divorces in the U.S. in 2020 were among those aged 55 or older), we are learning that the effects of divorce are not unique to young children. The instability, confusion, and questions of parental loyalty don’t simply disappear when one is an adult child of divorce. This is why when we allow victims of gray divorce to speak out, we learn that even adults don’t simply “get over” their parents’ separations."

https://thembeforeus.com/the-effects-of-gray-divorce-on-adult-children/

https://thembeforeus.com/divorce-is-hardest-on-the-kids-even-when-theyre-all-grown-up/

Jenn & Katy talk about the new book release, traveling to London, interviews with Tim Pool and Alex Clark on "The Spillover" and all the other projects in the hopper for Them Before Us.

In this series wrap, Jenn and Katy cover the final chapter of  Them Before Us, Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement, by discussing Chapter 10: Join the Movement, in which they cover the myriad ways you can become part of the global children's rights movement. From simple activities like  getting engaged with our social media content, signing up for, and sharing our newsletter, joining our advocate group, helping to build our media and political networks, and by donating to our cause.

In this episode, Jenn and Katy discuss the chapter "Adoption" from Them Before Us: Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement. If parents have a right to their biological mother and father, isn't TBU against adoption? The case is made that adoption is a good for society when it is properly understood and done with the rights and needs of the child in mind; Adoption treats the child as the client. It is strongly contrasted with the third-party reproduction industry, which makes children the products for adults.

Katy and Jenn take on two trending news articles from the perspective of the rights of the child. The first story is about Dylan, the dad of at least 96 children who goes on a road trip to meet them, navigating relationships with the social parents and his own feelings of disconnection and loss. The second story is considering the ethics of desiring and having biological children. Is wanting your own children a vestige of white supremacy, racism, or eugenics?

A Sperm Donor Chases a Role in the Lives of the 96 Children He Fathered by Wall Street Journal

Preferring Biological Children Is Immoral by Wired

Wired Contributor Claims “Preferring Biological Children Is Immoral” by Evie Magazine, featuring commentary from Katy Faust

Jenn and Katy continue their discussion of each chapter in Them Before Us Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement. This week, they tackle the ethical questions surrounding surrogacy: is it an altruistic pursuit that helps women unable to conceive or who, for whatever reason, cannot bring a pregnancy to fruition? Or is surrogacy an ethical violation that commodifies women and children?

While the Nordic model for healthcare and education often gets high praise in the USA, Madeleine Wallin pulls back the curtain on some surprising downsides. Discover how Swedish mothers who prefer to care for their kids at home face societal pressures in a system that prioritizes institutional care. Jenn and Madeleine chat about her experience as a mother of five in Sweden, exploring how what the government prioritizes and promotes is impacting Swedish women and vulnerable children.

As a bonus, they foray accidentally into European geopolitics and learn Madeleine is going to spend time living in a house off the grid right by Russia.

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Madeleine Wallin is the Secretary General of FEFAF, European Federation of Parents and Carers at Home and on the Board and in International Relationships for the Swedish organization Haro.

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Other notes from things mentioned in the show:

Erika Komisar is a great resource in these conversations about daycare, raising children at home. Website

Madeleine is going to live in a house off the grid that used to belong to this extremely famous Finnish children's book author. Website

Jenn and Katy discuss chapter 7 of Them Before Us, Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement, the dark side of Donor Conception. They explore the reality of gamete "donation" to Big Fertility, and the immoral practice of purchasing sperm and eggs in an effort to customize children. Them Before Us encourages our children’s rights advocates to consider the myriad potential harms to women who donate eggs, the women who rent their wombs for gestation, and the potential mental and physical health crisis possibilities of a child with potentially hundreds of half siblings living in their vicinity, and other ethical questions Big Fertility would prefer we all ignore.

Jenn and Katy address one of the most pervasive lies in popular culture, the myth that there’s “no difference” in outcomes for children raised by same-sex parents when compared to children raised by their own mother and father.

In our first Q&A bonus episode, Katy addresses questions we’ve received from our followers on social media:

• Why did Katy start Them Before Us?
• How does Katy's mom feel about TBU and Katy's work?
• What do we think about "inter-racial" adoption?
• What's the TBU position on same-sex couples adopting?
• How can we "sustain marriage" in modern society?
• What's a small scale way to support Them Before Us?

Jenn and Katy tackle a societal issue that has impacted the majority of the population, Chapter Five from her book Them Before Us: Divorce. They explore how much divorce hurts children, and how it impacts every aspect of their lives, from academics, to their physical and mental health; they make the case that divorce must be the last resort for any adults that have the best interest of their children at heart. This episode provides the information and tools needed to effectively discuss this heavy topic and hope for those who want to break the cycle.

Jenn and Katy discuss the true definition of marriage, the importance of the marital institution as it relates to the rights of children, and the socio-cultural impact that followed the 2015 SCOTUS decision that redefined it.. . They explore poly-relationships, cohabitation, no-fault divorce, and where the blame truly lies for the dismal state of marriage in the west.

Jenn and Katy continue to unpack chapters of Them Before Us; Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement. This podcast expounds on Chapter Three: Gender Matters. They deep dive into the cultural “gender is a social construct” nomenclature, and make the case that “parenting” is a misnomer; the reality is that “parenting” is best defined as “mothering” and “fathering.”

Jenn and Katy editorialize on two trending news stories that circulated this past month and consider them from the perspective that’s usually missing: the children's. Today’s episode explores the difficulty in the quest to procure a “good sperm donor”, and whether “reciprocal IVF” can satisfy the profound longings children have for familial connection.

Esquire article: https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/a44519929/sperm-donor-search-what-i-learned-about-men/

People Magazine article: https://people.com/couple-carrying-each-others-baby-reciprocal-ivf-give-birth-days-apart-my-extraordinary-family-7556199

Jenn and Katy discuss why “Biology Matters” the second chapter of her book, Them Before Us - Why We Need a Global Children's Rights Movement. They explore the importance of the relationship between a child’s biological mother and father and the social-emotional nourishment a child derives from being raised in a home with married parents who love one another, living under the same roof. Also up for discussion is the difference between step-parents, mom’s boyfriend, and adoptive parents; and finally they share some inspiring stories about non-related adults who are putting them (the children) before us (the adults).

Jenn and Katy talk about chapter one in the TBU book: What makes something a right and the what the difference is between natural and legal rights as it pertains to children. Then they give the children's rights perspective on three trending surrogacy news stories from across the globe.

We flip the script in this Them Before Us podcast episode, where Katy interviews Jenn about the confusion she experienced around gender and sexuality, and how her lived experience uniquely qualifies her in this mission that insists adults do hard things on behalf of children.

Join us for an inspiring episode of the Them Before Us podcast as we sit down with Kristin Hall, a fellow advocate for children's rights who proves that passion and determination can make a difference.

Kristin, who like many of us does not have formal credentials in law or advocacy, is passionate about living out her calling to champion the rights of children in her community and context. Her story exemplifies the core message of Them Before Us—that advocacy isn't defined by titles or influence, but by the unwavering dedication of everyday adults who refuse to see children victimized.

In our kick-off episode, Katy and Jenn cover the origins of our global movement, Katy's juicy (not juicy) backstory, what sets Them Before Us apart, and our plans for the future.

This month, join Them Before Us as we celebrate the irreplaceable roles of both mom and dad with our #ANDnotOR campaign. In this episode, Katy and Jenn introduce #ANDnotOR and celebrate the significance of a child's father

You will also hear Mille's story, concieved using a sperm donor and raised by two women. You can also read her story here https://thembeforeus.com/millie-fontana/

We recognize that children thrive when they have the complementary benefits of both a mother and a father present in their daily lives.

⁠Click here⁠ to help us raise $50,000 for the 50% of children who are growing up without the daily presence of both their mom and dad. Let's champion a pro-child culture where every child has access to 100% of mom and 100% of dad, because every child deserves nothing less.

This month, join Them Before Us as we celebrate the irreplaceable roles of both mom and dad with our #ANDnotOR campaign. In this episode, Katy and Jenn introduce #ANDnotOR and celebrate the significance of a child's mother.

You will also hear Samantha's story, raised by her dad and his boyfriend, and her experience with mother hunger. You can read more of her story at https://thembeforeus.com/samantha/

We recognize that children thrive when they have the complementary benefits of both a mother and a father present in their daily lives.

Click here to help us raise $50,000 for the 50% of children who are growing up without the daily presence of both their mom and dad. Let's champion a pro-child culture where every child has access to 100% of mom and 100% of dad, because every child deserves nothing less.

Katy and her nineteen co-authors submitted their manuscript for book #3, Pro-Child Politics, this week, hear the update to this resource you will want before the election this fall. Jenn and Katy also chatted about the response to her Christianity Today op-ed and answered some other questions that came in through social media.